If every skill worked for all damage, would hybrids be OP?

[UnLucky]

Now we all know what Ra/Hu can do, and even before that a lot of people swore by Ra/Fi. Even now, Fo/Fi vs Fo/Te is strength vs utility.

Anything else, though, and a hybrid spec just falls flat. But if they didn't fail outright, would they be too good? Let's see.

(spoiler tags are how the classes work now, for reference)

Solo Classes:
[SPOILER-BOX]Hunter boosts Striking by 220%, Ranged by 193%, and Technic by 120%, all while in Fury Stance and using Just Attacks.

Fighter boosts all damage up to 144% or 169%, but Striking gets an extra 140% if the target has a status effect (so 202% or 237%).

Ranger boosts only Ranged damage by 207%, but can have an additional 300% for all damage with Weak Bullet. Have to be stationary and target weak points.

Gunner can boost their ranged damage up to 206% up close, at full HP, and with a full TMG Gear gauge. Impossible to also max Chain Trigger (150-500% no CF, 203-675% with) at the same time, along with Attack PP Restorate. Most Gunners are not going to get much more than 160% from their passive damage boosts. Perfect Keeper and Aerial Advance work for Striking and Technic damage at 120% each (144% total, but lol AA).

Force can boost Technic damage by 133%, or a single element by another 144% (for 192% total). Striking and Ranged get nothing, not even from a weapon's elemental attribute.

Techer can boost Technic damage by 120% if the target is weak to the element you used. Can boost a single element by another 144% (173% total). Striking and Ranged do get the 120% bonus, but only on the added elemental damage from the weapon's attribute (so a 50 element weapon has 160% of its stats instead of 150%).[/SPOILER-BOX]
Pure Class Combinations:
[SPOILER-BOX]Hu/Fi:
Striking: 316%/371% B/W or 443%/520% w/ SE
Ranged: 278%/326% B/W
Technic (somehow): 173%/203% B/W

Gu/Ra:
Striking: 144% at full HP while juggling
Ranged: 391% weak point, stationary, close range, full HP (PK not maxed), full Gear
Technic: 144%

Fo/Te:
Striking: 107% of your 50 element weapon if the target is weak to it
Ranged: as above
Technic: 192%, or 230% if the target is weak to your main element[/SPOILER-BOX]
Working "Hybrids":
[SPOILER-BOX]Ra/Hu:
Striking: 220%
Ranged: 399%
Technic: 120%

Fo/Fi:
Striking: 144%/169%, or 202%/237%
Ranged: 144%/169%
Technic: 276%/324%[/SPOILER-BOX]
So what would happen if we opened this up completely? Just take the highest boosts from each class and directly apply it to the highest from any other.

Hunter:
Ranger: 454%
Gunner: 319% (no TMG, PK at lv1)
Force : 292% for charged PAs, a 50 element weapon is now 72 if you spec for it
Techer: 220%, a 50 element weapon is now 86 if specced and target is weak to it

Fighter:
Ranger: 298%/349%, or 417%/489% with SE
Gunner: 209%/246%, or 293%/344%
Force : 191%/225%, or 268%/315% (50->72 element)
Techer: 144%/169%, or 202%/237% (50->86 element)

Ranger:
Hunter: 454%
Fighter: 298%/349%, or 417%/489% with SE
Force : 275% for charged PAs (50->72 element)
Techer: 206% (50->86 element)

Gunner:
Hunter: 415% (full TMG Gear, PK lv1)
Fighter: 272%/320%, or 381%/447% with SE
Force : 252% charged (50->72 element)
Techer: 189% (50->86 element)

Force:
Hunter: 421%
Fighter: 276%/324%, or 386%/453%
Ranger: 396%
Gunner: 279% (no TMG)

Techer:
Hunter: 395%
Fighter: 249%/292%, or 348%/408%
Ranger: 357%
Gunner: 251%

Note: Wand Gear would also see the above percentages (190% with Force) instead of how it works now, which is:
Hunter: 151%
Fighter: 144%/169%, or 202%/237%
Ranger: 100%
Gunner: 110%
Force : 100%

[Zorafim]

I think the major problem isn't that hybrids would be OP, but some subs would be much stronger than others, such that any other sub would be useless. In particular, there's no reason to pick anything but /HU, besides maybe /FO for techer. Frankly, I think all subs should work with all mains. The subjob system was supposed to create PSU's hybrid/pure system, but it fails because of the weapon limitation and some skills just don't work with some classes.
Really, the whole system needs an overhaul. It's obvious they didn't think it through.

[Zyrusticae]

These numbers just confirm my suspicions that SEGA can't into basic arithmetic.

Really, if you're going to have numeric multiplicative bonuses on everything, you should at least make sure the numbers are relatively close to one another between classes...

[ShinMaruku]

We all seen this coming.

[gigawuts]

These numbers just confirm my suspicions that SEGA can't into basic arithmetic.

Really, if you're going to have numeric multiplicative bonuses on everything, you should at least make sure the numbers are relatively close to one another between classes...

They did at first. The three classes, I think, had I dunno about 50% extra damage at level 30. The problem arose when they added more skills, and instead of adjusting numbers just copypasted them, and instead of giving hunter more of what it needed they gave it more static skills.

Then they saw that this was a bad idea, so they fixed 2 separate problems simultaneously to levels that would have both independently solved the problem, making HU's multipliers too good and leaving its weapons' base performance too weak. What they SHOULD have done was increased base weapon performance, then only fixed fury stance. Fury combo should not have been added as it exists, and now foregoing fury stance for whatever reason means doing 40% reduced damage than if you'd pooled into it. Now since they kept fixing the problem by adding trash skills, skills that are no longer quite as trash, HU's multipliers take up the full 70 SP. That's as many as 7 tens. And that's terrible.

Sega fails to grasp much more than basic arithmetic.

gg sega

gg

[UnLucky]

Yeah, Hunter's skills need toning down a bit, in density and volume. They need to spend too much SP to reach values that they desperately need, but is way too high compared to the other classes. Melee should be strong by default, not only after completely sacrificing everything else.

Fury Stance and JA should be 15% when maxed (FS starting at 5%, JA at 1%)

JA 2 should be an actual JA Combo, with 5% per JA in a row up to 25% (does not require FS)

Remove a Fury Stance Up and boost the damage of all melee weapons.

There, the max Hunter can get is 182%, but from a larger base than before. You can also tie a damage boost onto the weapon gears, along with a cool effect. Without FS, they could still get 144% damage along with every other utility skill.

As it is now, a Hunter can get 220% with Fury Stance, or 121% without. With Guard Stance (what's that?) 115%.

Really though, I think the damage penalty on Guard Stance should be removed. We don't need less reason to use the skill.

[gigawuts]

Seriously. Turning fury stance off and having to spend real money to use guard stance well at all is enough of a penalty.

[Walkure]

You'd maybe have some HU/RA, and FO/HU would replace FO/FI. RA/HU and FI/HU would still be the mode for those classes. TE and GU would still lack a strong niche as a main class, and there'd be practically no reason to sub them anymore due to /HU.

So, for maximizing DPS, the subclass of choice would be the class that can spec for pure DPS. Not particularly surprising.

Shouldn't there be more concern that there's no real incentive to focus on anything but your own damage for a subclass? Ranger sub would help, and this change would make /RA a fair bit better due to damage bonuses actually working, but it's a pain to set up, and would still primarily be backed up by Weak Bullet. In a group, WB support might be considerable on other classes if it was made more accessible to anything other than Rangers. FO or TE might be good subs, if support was an actual thing that worked well. Changing it this way doesn't really offer up any bonuses at all towards either supporting or raising damage through tech-based classes.

Maybe Ranger's weak bullet could instead be just a general "weak point" you can inflict with any weapon or with a tech. Making weak points easy to apply for non-rangers would be, at the current balance of classes, the best way to incentivize subbing RA. And, shifta/deband could be made useful enough to where you'd at least want someone in the party who would cast it. Hell, maybe more support techs could be added, like a regen or movement speed tech. That'd open up hybridization with subclasses substantively; the choice would no longer solely be "Okay, which sub gives me the most damage?"