oh god the undercutting

[Alisha]

jesus christ...is it a coincidence that i dont remember it being this bad before the vita version released?

[blace]

People are trying to sell their wares as quickly as possible because of the 5000 AC event.

[Amaranthus]

About time my patch has completed... UNDERCUTTIN you SAY?! MWAHahahahaHAHA *isshot*

[supersonix9]

jesus christ...is it a coincidence that i dont remember it being this good before the vita version released?

yeah i don't know what's going on

[ShadowDragon28]

good maybe I can finally afford the stuff I want in the player shops now.

[Z-0]

Yeah, the undercutting has been pretty lame recently. As someone who actually sells stuff (not necessarily from AC scratch), it's really a damper when you find / get something for cheap and it just keeps snowballing in price so you don't get much anyway. :/

[NoiseHERO]

Was glad to get prem tickets, can finally get myself a new Double Waber..

But if it's undercut hell right now maybe I should wait till smoke clears before I waste a ticket and open shop. <_<

[supersonix9]

actually spheres were super expensive when servers went up, glad I was able to sell all of mine then; now they're cheap as hell again. disappoint

[fay]

Why would undercutting ever be a bad thing? Ok, you might not get as much for your stuff, but you aren't paying as much for other stuff either.

Under no circumstance can I ever see this being a bad thing. It means everyone can get their hands on some nice stuff, provided they can buy it if they don't have premium.

[Zenobia]

Why would undercutting ever be a bad thing? Ok, you might not get as much for your stuff, but you aren't paying as much for other stuff either.

Under no circumstance can I ever see this being a bad thing. It means everyone can get their hands on some nice stuff, provided they can buy it if they don't have premium.

Cause they some greed wittle mongers dats why they dun understand the concept FREE FOR ALL<3!

[AgemFrostMage]

Still it's better than the resellers. In other games where you must be present in your booth to sell things people can haggle prices down. Back to the resellers: They buy out stores then resell everything at a much higher price. In this other game resellers destroyed the economy. Item mall stuff was expensive there and anyone with $55 US can buy a sword from the mall and sell it for almost max player gold limit (bank limit is much higher). Then, the cheaper stuff skyrockets too. Then everyone else must sell at a higher price from the armor and weapons they make which has a high fail % without books (purchased from said mall) just to buy from the resellers. That game made it impossible to be a free player either buy from the item mall with real money or always be poor.

[BIG OLAF]

Why would undercutting ever be a bad thing? Ok, you might not get as much for your stuff, but you aren't paying as much for other stuff either.

...because some people sell more than buy? Undercutting was infuriating on PSU, and it's just as much so now.

"lolol let me price stuff 1 meseta lower aguehueguehuegue"

[o0Kais0o]

...Why are people complaining about this, frankly some prices are beyond stupid. People in MMOs are far to concerned about their pretend money these days.

[gigawuts]

Why would undercutting ever be a bad thing? Ok, you might not get as much for your stuff, but you aren't paying as much for other stuff either.

Under no circumstance can I ever see this being a bad thing. It means everyone can get their hands on some nice stuff, provided they can buy it if they don't have premium.

Because common, low value things will crumble and rarer, higher value things will not.

Mass undercutting is bad for a stable economy. If people are uncertain about what they'll be able to get, instead of seeing maybe 100 items at 50k-44k you'll be seeing 50 items at 50k-25k. This...is not good. All it takes is 1-2 people doing affixing to clear the market in that case, and since people know the price is low they'll be less likely to check to see if it's high enough to sell at a good value yet.

So yes. Mass undercutting is in fact very bad, for more reasons than just this, for the seller and the buyer.


...Why are people complaining about this, frankly some prices are beyond stupid. People in MMOs are far to concerned about their pretend money these days.

Your "pretend" money is directly translated to real time and real effort that you exert.

So unless the time you spend on this game to get it are also pretend, well, your video game money isn't pretend either.

[AgemFrostMage]

In Guild Wars 2 they always undercut whereas Wonderland Online in Cancer server at least was destroyed by resellers. Both are bad in extremes.

[Reiketsu]

I have no idea what you're talking about, everything's expensive as fuck, lol

[Z-0]

Depends what you call expensive as fuck. There's a few expensive items (LA41, Student Replica), but most of it is hovering around 1 million or less, which isn't much these days.

[Shinmarizu]

Those Student S Repcas are going near 5 mill at the moment. If what Zynetic said was true a few hours ago, I would have made a killing right about now.

Good thing I'm not interested in most of the expensive items in this rotation.

[Aine]

The economy is actually pretty balanced because of importers/exporters. If resellers try to monopolize something and hike up prices, importers will bring in stock from other servers and undercut the resellers.

[Shinmarizu]

Maybe so, but the average price of those items will steadily increase while this happens. The selling price only settles down or stabilizes long after the initial release. This also only works as long as there is supply; as in either Sega revives a given AC item or people resort to the AC scratch to attempt to get one of their own to sell.

[Dragon_Knight]

I usually value the undercutter market, I haven't gotten the the point of being able to farm millions of meseta in an hour nor do I really buy things simply to sell them in the market. What I want I usually keep. So when I see an item that I wanted and watch it climb ever higher into the stratosphere I get kind of depressed. Heck my worst was attempting to buy one of the sets of clothing when I realized I was only 30k short of it, each day the price climbed up and my 30k difference soon bloomed into a million meseta difference and I gave up on getting it. I'll never be able to afford the psycho wand either. So my 12 year hunt continues.

So yes, as a player that rarely has a chance to cheat the system I value the undercutter.

[Meyfei]

People are trying to sell their wares as quickly as possible because of the 5000 AC event.

which is this?
Undercutters FTW, Undercutter-resellers FTL Wai U Sell our only Cheap Stuff for maor!!

[gigawuts]

because people pay for it

if nobody was buying it nobody would be marking up that high

don't blame the resellers, blame the people with more money than you who buy it

aka don't hate the player, hate the game

[Zenobia]

because people pay for it

if nobody was buying it nobody would be marking up that high

don't blame the resellers, blame the people with more money than you who buy it

aka don't hate the player, hate the game

^Mhmmm Baddie~

[Opy]

People who don't sell as much, and want quick turn around will always undercut. Esp if they are still making good money.

anyway, isn't all this just a natural part of Supply/Demand?

[o0Kais0o]

Your "pretend" money is directly translated to real time and real effort that you exert.

So unless the time you spend on this game to get it are also pretend, well, your video game money isn't pretend either.

Effort? Its a video game. I play this for shits and giggles. Trying to make it seem almost like a job kind of weird, I'm not mocking your opinion, it just seems odd to me that something meant for entertainment gets taken so seriously is all.

[Vintasticvin]

I always undercut my stuff by 10-20% the average marked price.

[gigawuts]

Effort? Its a video game. I play this for shits and giggles. Trying to make it seem almost like a job kind of weird, I'm not mocking your opinion, it just seems odd to me that something meant for entertainment gets taken so seriously is all.

So if you're enjoying a movie you haven't seen before and someone turns off the TV right before it gets to the good bit, you wouldn't be even the least bit upset or interested in seeing what happens and would just find something else to watch instead?

Because that's not normal human behavior. I can say with a fair amount of certainty that most people become invested in what they do for their entertainment. Many develop hobbies that they become particularly invested in, and want to see their efforts pay off to decent degrees. Surely you can comprehend that a person who's invested in something wanting to see more gains for their work.

[jooozek]

some people are immortal
why the fuck would they care about wasting time

[Zenobia]

some people are immortal
why the fuck would they care about wasting time

I UNDERCUTTED YOU ALL I WIN THE GAME!

[o0Kais0o]

I can understand people seeking a reward for for something they've put real effort into, but we're talking about a drop based on good ol' rng. You could run 1000 missions or just 1 and still get the drop, I just don't think applying a massive price tag on something random is entirely right.

[gigawuts]

First, no, we're not talking about a drop based rng. We're talking about people disliking people doing markups, because it means they need more money to get the same amount of stuff. To which the answer is: That price wasn't the actual going rate, and was not guaranteed for you or anyone else.

Second, and not actually related but you mentioned it, having your work and progress taken from you is not okay just because it's an rng. It's still bad, and if it's because of an rng that makes the use of the rng bad.

[Shinmarizu]

Would you like a rather unfairly biased RNG and a highly volatile player market dictating how much extra meseta you're allowed to have when you spend real money on this game?

There are a fair amount of market-savvy people who do not, and would rather use the market to their advantage so that they can have extra meseta to obtain what they want here.

Then there are the majority here who, for whatever reason, do not have the funds or the timing to play the market, and purchase what they can using regular means of meseta income. Those people are the ones getting fleeced by the player market.

[TaigaUC]

Your "pretend" money is directly translated to real time and real effort that you exert.

So unless the time you spend on this game to get it are also pretend, well, your video game money isn't pretend either.

I wish more people would point things like this out.



Second, and not actually related but you mentioned it, having your work and progress taken from you is not okay just because it's an rng. It's still bad, and if it's because of an rng that makes the use of the rng bad.


This, too.


Would you like a rather unfairly biased RNG

I wouldn't use RNG, full stop.

[thematesV2]

I don't know about the majority of people who sell more than buy, but for anyone with less than 200 hrs in the game, selling isn't even worth the few minutes it takes to set up a shop. when EVERYTHING you find sells for 1k, and thats due to the selling fee, there's no point in listing content.

and if you've got 500 hours or more in the game, you're no longer playing the first level (action rpg leveling game), or even the second level (maxing out your items/stats), you're already at the meta game level (being the market force that delivers mid to high level rares to the 2nd level players, and providing the hype/excitement over the top tier weaps/equip...), and playing as a aristocrat, so there's no point in whining. if the market crashes, it just means you have to figure out other ways to enjoy or other games to play. meanwhile, the 1st tier and 2nd tier players are still having fun.

[jooozek]

stuff with souls drops at all levels so you could gather 10 million in fodders in few hours of playing if you got really lucky
that brings me to "fucking mizer, no matter how many times i kill you, all i get is this yellow ring of meseta"

[o0Kais0o]

So what I'm being told is everybody should sell at the same price, causing the market to stagnate and to hell with those who don't have access to premium... hmm.

[gigawuts]

No, not at all. What you're being told is the result of actions and who those actions benefit. I don't give a flying fuck who does what or why they do it.

[Shinmarizu]

"fucking mizer, no matter how many times i kill you, all i get is this yellow ring of meseta"

truer words have not been spoken / ohaithar RNG


So what I'm being told is everybody should sell at the same price, causing the market to stagnate and to hell with those who don't have access to premium... hmm.

Not telling people what to do. Only saying what already happens. I've learned how to respond to it, is all.

Besides, if everyone did as you just said, it would only further the current state of the market.

[BlankM]

Not everything gets undercut, just things that become common.

If you want the rare stuff then people can price whatever they want for it, so its not as competitive. An unstable market just fills the shops with useless junk and makes the flow of meseta decrease. Who would want to sell their goods for dirt cheap? Then suddenly demand for something clears the market, and a few people have a monopoly. This is bad for the consumer.

The buyer and seller could both benefit from a better economy. Instead its just junk that sells for junk, and then once in a while you get lucky. Meanwhile stuff that's rare stays high in price and sells really slow. Its too much of a distinct split that does nothing for the pace of the game (Unless you really do just make millions from some tedious method).

Anyways I don't think its the undercutters fault really. There would probably be less need to undercut if people were buying more stuff. But the game is poorly balanced in desirables. Not just when it comes to weapons, but even in AC scratch its filled with color variants that people don't want...

[gigawuts]

A healthy economy will have fairly fast movement of goods, which is what keeps the price stable. Undercutting is bad here because it can result in days worth of market flux, as players refuse to adhere to the new price causing fewer items to be on the market until the value goes up (if they don't just trash said item for valuable bank space). The fact that many markets are very slow is a pretty bad sign. Most people don't have much money, and what little they get they immediately spend on the only items that will go up in price: Cosmetics. Weapons? Weapons get swapped out every fucking month. Weapons are subject to very intentional and ongoing planned obsolescence. The only things that actually consistently go up in value are costumes and este tickets, for a few reasons - the least of which not being that they stop being seeded after about 30 days. Beyond that, este tickets are consumed on use, and cannot be put back into circulation.

It's an intentionally flawed system. I mean, I'm not just saying that. This is literally intentional. It's part of the F2P design. Players are pressured into buying the outfits they want right goddamn now, because if they don't it'll just cost them more later. Sega knows this, Sega uses this, and Sega doesn't realize it's actually going to cause players to burn out rather than keep casually going for every month's items. Unless they really feel the incoming players outweigh the outgoing players, which although true now will not be sustainable.

[BlankM]

I actually think most costume prices go down now, for the very reason that you can simply trade them when you're done with them. As fashions go out of style people just want a quick buck and put it up when they tire and find the prices have dramatically decreased because not only are other people doing the same but nobody actually wants the costume.

So really it just depends on said cosmetic. I'm more concerned with weapons because thats what I play a Phantasy Star game for...to collect cool weapons. Aesthetics are all honestly pretty easily affordable if you have an income...

[gigawuts]

That's right. Players are turning their old costumes into cash for the new costumes, which are flashier, skimpier, and just all around newer.

And I agree, the weapons are what matter most to me. Which is depressing, because none of them actually do anything interesting.

[BlankM]

Thats another reason the market is bad for them. Who wants to pay 10-20mil for worst reskins of weapons that are already better for a much lower price? Either they REALLY like the look or they have the meseta to buy out most the market and grind its attribute...

So yeah, it just makes it harder to justify the work for the gains. Unless once again, you are making millions via a specific method.

[Alisha]

what i was specfically talking about is selling AC items then having to relist them as much as 5+ times because impatient players would not just undercut but do steep undercuts

[blace]

You rely too much on the player market.

[Niris]

So at one point A T-shirt and a pair of shorts was more than 1.5mil?

[blace]

Probably.

I sure as hell know that the current rotation of outfits for female outfits were over the 3 million mark after maintenance.

[BlankM]

I dunno. I honestly think the recycle shop isn't doing its job. If there were things in there worth getting, that also were in demand in player shops, then maybe AC items could at least have a minimum price that isn't terrible...

[blace]

Not to mention that it requires 14 AC items for a recolor ticket.

I'd like to see something where you can trade in an existing piece of clothing for a chance to redeem it through another scratch. Probably at the cost of 4-5 items to balance the chances.

[Niris]

Not to mention that it requires 14 AC items for a recolor ticket.

I'd like to see something where you can trade in an existing piece of clothing for a chance to redeem it through another scratch. Probably at the cost of 4-5 items to balance the chances.Things like this seem to locked away and held back. They should do the GW2 thing and give you basic colors for free. Than make a bunch of crazy exclusive colors that can only bet attained with AC or whatever.

[Zenobia]

Not to mention that it requires 14 AC items for a recolor ticket.

I'd like to see something where you can trade in an existing piece of clothing for a chance to redeem it through another scratch. Probably at the cost of 4-5 items to balance the chances.

Yellow rappy cheap as hell your 14 AC scratches problem solved.

Now if you really wanna talk about AC scratches that one to get the +7 auto grind is total bs lol.

[blace]

Forgot about those +7 grinds. I get to +7 easily enough, it's always +8 and higher that screw me over.

[Zenobia]

Forgot about those +7 grinds. I get to +7 easily enough, it's always +8 and higher that screw me over.

So that's you still all that +7 luckage curse you!

[ShinMaruku]

because people pay for it

if nobody was buying it nobody would be marking up that high

don't blame the resellers, blame the people with more money than you who buy it

aka don't hate the player, hate the game

No you subvert and disrupt the game.

[blace]

So that's you still all that +7 luckage curse you!
I only have a Red Gunslash+10 and Wing Spada+10.

Anything else gets to +8 then a -3 every time. My gear sucks.

[Walkure]

Forgot about those +7 grinds. I get to +7 easily enough, it's always +8 and higher that screw me over.

Are you using (+1) grind protects at +7 and over?

[blace]

Are you using (+1) grind protects at +7 and over?
I do, but I don't have enough disposable income for that.

[Puppet_Papaya]

When will the undercutting end? I just got a 3 day shop ticket for the first time ever and I don't want to waste it. Also, if my 3 days run out, what happens to items that have not sold?

[blace]

Then they sit in limbo until someone buys them or you take them out.

[Puppet_Papaya]

can I still collect the money if somebody buys after my 3 days?

[BlankM]

Yup. You simply can't manage prices or add anything.

[TaigaUC]

I'm guessing a lot of people got 1 day premium tickets and are trying to get rid of as much of their stuff in a single day as possible. I know I would be, if I wasn't waiting for the undercutting to be over first.

[Niris]

The rents too damn high.