Are you satisfied? (will Ep2 save us?)

[Rosel]

Just a little survey... are you satisfied with PSO2?

Personally, I logged back in and as a level 60 Hunter, I have absolutely nothing to do.

The only thing I can do is old boring stuff and hope I hit that .000000001% proc on a 12-star item, but I'll usually fall asleep because we're talking about fights which I have done 1000+ times.

What keeps you playing?

& Will Episode 2 save us? (well, people who are bored)

I was looking at the info, and I'm a little woried.

- Dewmans just look like the easy way out. As in, it looks like they wanted to be able to say they'd created a 'new race' while putting ZERO effort in it.

This is literally a human with a couple of unique make ups and stat distribution moved around a bit.

- Katanas... counter based? I hope they didn't get the opportunity to make a new melee weapon and opt to make it defense focused (defense focused skills being the most useless and inefficient in the game). Hopefully, maybe it will have some gap closers and heavy offense focus as well?

Because 99% of the game is about mowing down loads of trash mobs, a counter weapon seems somewhat less useful than what I was hoping for, so hopefully there's a lot to it.

[The Walrus]

No poll?

[Rosel]

I'm not sure how to add one! I more just wanted discussion haha.

[Ezodagrom]

Personally I've been taking things slow, so I'm satisfied with the game.
Sure, PSO2 has problems, and some of them are big problems, but to me they're definitely not big enough to affect my enjoyment.

Be it doing random client orders for myself (with 3 characters, 2 classes each, I have plenty to do), helping friends do their quests (TAs, AQs, or even just COs), or just hanging out in the lobby and watch b20 being silly, I have plenty of fun while playing.

When it comes to the future, the 2nd half of 2013 seems more promising than the first, with one new area every 2 months and a new difficulty mode, I'm eager to see what happens.

[Lostbob117]

It'll be kinda how getting fighter, gunner, and techer class will be. But hopefully katanas don't suck like Twin Daggers.

[Walkure]

What keeps you playing?
AQs and whatnot for all the pyroxene, hunting random mobs and bosses. Hit 60/60 HU/FI, got the excubes for a lucky rise set, and I use it to help pick up souls and pyroxene as needed. Getting pyroxenes to 50 element will take a good amount more time. Plenty of shenanigans in the meantime.

Also leveling FO, might level RA afterwards.


Will Episode 2 save us? (well, people who are bored)
Because mob speed and aggressiveness is determined by level, maybe. Super-Hard difficulty might make older fights more interesting.

If you're not having fun for the sake of playing, or exhausted all you wanted to do, then chances are you're going to exhaust the new content faster than it comes out. Even if SEGA were to pull out all the stops and churn out content, it'd still probably get burned through faster than they can churn out. If you legitimately feel like you have nothing to do, and you don't want to do anything, why not try logging out and doing something else?

- Dewmans just look like the easy way out. As in, it looks like they wanted to be able to say they'd created a 'new race' while putting ZERO effort in it.

This is literally a human with a couple of unique make ups and stat distribution moved around a bit.Yeah it's mostly aesthetic. Some people want to take up another character, for one reason or another. Can't really fault SEGA on this, since some people are apparently pretty hyped about getting a free character slot.


- Katanas... counter based? I hope they didn't get the opportunity to make a new melee weapon and opt to make it defense focused (defense focused skills being the most useless and inefficient in the game). Hopefully, maybe it will have some gap closers and heavy offense focus as well?
Building passive defensives is useless because active defenses, invulnerability frames, just guarding, etc are perfect defenses when done right. Counter-based gameplay is probably going to be a perfect, active defense that blends into offensive gameplay for bosses. Unless it also performs well outside of counter gameplay, it won't really be effective for anything aside from bosses.

[Gama]

got a FO/TE HU/FI and a Pre RA/GU

non of them are any close to cap, so i still have allot to get distracted to.

also i'm tottaly gonna make a BR/FO or BR/HU

[Alisha]

twin daggars dont suck they just take actual skill to use instead of lolDAspam i win the game.

[The Walrus]

>PSO2
>Skill

You serious?

[Zenobia]

twin daggars dont suck they just take actual skill to use instead of lolDAspam i win the game.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LjtFptpib8o"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LjtFptpib8o


I win this argument now he can't say anything.

[blace]

Dragon EX takes little to no effort to fight, but that shows twin daggers are just as spammy as double sabers.

Personally, I solo everything I can, so whatever content that extends the life of the game is greatly needed. Trying to extend that by introducing a new race/class may bring me back in full swing, but I'll most likely get bored of it soon enough.

TAs, AQs, ExQs and so on are nice and all, but they're not something I can do alone and have little interest in.

[ShinMaruku]

Episode 3 and 4 maybe Episode 2? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

[Zenobia]

Dragon EX takes little to no effort to fight, but that shows twin daggers are just as spammy as double sabers.

Personally, I solo everything I can, so whatever content that extends the life of the game is greatly needed. Trying to extend that by introducing a new race/class may bring me back in full swing, but I'll most likely get bored of it soon enough.

TAs, AQs, ExQs and so on are nice and all, but they're not something I can do alone and have little interest in.

Every boss takes little to no effort he isn't special and every wep is spammable which is why I showed that vid int he first place. Hell even all the stages are spammable. Why ppl complain about why X weapon is X spammy is beyond me and stupid lol that happens in any game where w/e combo you find and mix up it becomes another move set to you in you with any other combo you spam point blank.

[blace]

I'm just saying that Dragon EX stays in place long enough to waste a full PP gauge and then some. Not the greatest of all challenges when it's a dragon that can't fly around like the others and taking a face full of photons.

[The Walrus]

On V.Hard? Cause whenever I fight him he's really aggressive and doesn't stand still for that long with the exception of laser.

[blace]

I always found QD harder than Dragon EX. He's aggressive, but he's not exactly the hardest to hit.

[Zalana]

I highly recommend you to play other PC games if your bored or have nothing to do in game.

[blace]

I probably would, but I'm at the point where games have lost their standing and PSO was something I enjoyed immensely.

[Zalana]

I probably would, but I'm at the point where games have lost their standing and PSO was something I enjoyed immensely.

Oh i didn't mean you specifically, I meant OP. Should've clarified that. I know a lot of people enjoy it but, then they miss out on other great games because their too engrossed with just one game.

[Alisha]

I highly recommend you to play other PC games if your bored or have nothing to do in game.

i would love too but ARR aint out yet

[Lostbob117]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LjtFptpib8o


I win this argument now he can't say anything.

DA is much better and more effective. Plus Double Sabers are more fun than Twin Daggers.

[MetalDude]

It doesn't really change the fact that TDs have horrendous coverage and nowhere close to enough as much output as DS's do.

[Coatl]

It doesn't really change the fact that TDs have horrendous coverage and nowhere close to enough as much output as DS's do.

Do you know of Dark Scherzo, the dagger PA? It actually has pretty good aoe coverage, but for some reason its damage is just ridiculously low. It's a shame. That PA alone could have made daggers decent.

[Lostbob117]

Do you know of Dark Scherzo, the dagger PA? It actually has pretty good aoe coverage, but for some reason its damage is just ridiculously low. It's a shame. That PA alone could have made daggers decent.

Daggers overall need a buff.

[NoiseHERO]

Keep going till you get sick of the new class...

Then forever afk on the beach.

[yoshiblue]

Keep going till you get sick of the new class...

Then forever afk on the beach.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ibBvIwjJeD0

Dudu will only make you restart bro.

[NoiseHERO]

Rayman 2: The Great Escape - I Want The Treasure! - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ibBvIwjJeD0)

Dudu will only make you restart bro.

I finally overcame dudu and bad droprates..

Buy everything pre-made or don't spend any money at all!

Ultimate casual pro martial artist NA 2013!

[spoiler-box]
WHAT'S REALLY GOOD????? NYALLAHHH???http://i514.photobucket.com/albums/t342/GenerationMichaeru/pso20130612_045208_005_zps54644a3d.png (http://s514.photobucket.com/user/GenerationMichaeru/media/pso20130612_045208_005_zps54644a3d.png.html)[/spoiler-box]

[Aslinng]

Just a little survey... are you satisfied with PSO2?

Personally, I logged back in and as a level 60 Hunter, I have absolutely nothing to do.
Like in other mmorpg when you hit max level, people do this :
- reroll
- hunt for the best equipement
- level up to hit new level max
That's the cycle of any mmorpg

So I think, what lack PSO 2 for max level are end game contents like "raids" but I personally dislike raids because you need to have a guild of more than 20 people and hope that they will often come online and raid with you. So if you're bored, make a guild and recruit people and go with them hunt that's what everyone do on others mmorpgs.

I don't know yet what I will do when I will hit max level on PSO 2 but I am enjoying the freedom I have and the gameplay which is quite refreshing.
Though, I look foward for the new class and to be able to raise a robot.

[Zenobia]

DA is much better and more effective. Plus Double Sabers are more fun than Twin Daggers.

No sword is much better and more effective in overall usage than DA why cause OE Sonic arrow Rising slash twister fall etc learn to HU!

Btw you should use Daggers its a good weapon learn it. It has a shift button which blocks all incoming atk all around you use it as I use every one of my weps I can tell you're prob an average HU/FI player.

Some low tier HU/FI user's in here lol. Daggers don't need a buff you're just bad at the game as far as using em is concerned.

[Zenobia]

I'm just saying that Dragon EX stays in place long enough to waste a full PP gauge and then some. Not the greatest of all challenges when it's a dragon that can't fly around like the others and taking a face full of photons.

Umm Quarts is the same guy only thing he has that is the move where he flies off the screen that's it other than that he is like DragonX but with dash moves and Quarts is mainstream easy.

At least with DragonX if you don't break his arm parts he become hella aggressive there is reason why HU/FI's love fighting him with both his arms pieces NOT broken ever tried that?

[gigawuts]

Like in other mmorpg when you hit max level, people do this :
- reroll
- hunt for the best equipement
- level up to hit new level max
That's the cycle of any mmorpg

So I think, what lack PSO 2 for max level are end game contents like "raids" but I personally dislike raids because you need to have a guild of more than 20 people and hope that they will often come online and raid with you. So if you're bored, make a guild and recruit people and go with them hunt that's what everyone do on others mmorpgs.

I don't know yet what I will do when I will hit max level on PSO 2 but I am enjoying the freedom I have and the gameplay which is quite refreshing.
Though, I look foward for the new class and to be able to raise a robot.

This is only partially true. For many games, level cap is when the real game begins. Part of it is in respeccing your skills in different ways to try to optimize your build, or discover new playstyles within that same class. You use these new optimized builds to find new gear as you play, which can be even more important to a build than that last SP or small number of stat points. Maybe actual strategy and planning is what you work on, to improve run speeds or just generally learn about a particularly problematic enemy.

Level cap is a finish line for some games, yes. For others it's the starting line, and everything else was just practice. PSO2 royally mucked that opportunity up, mainly by charging money to reset your tree. If people could respec as often as they want on a whim without being charged a penny (maybe charge an amount of ingame currency just to put a reasonable limit on it, sure), the level cap would be a much more interesting level to be at.

[Jakosifer]

It'll save it for a week, gameplay wise. Then its back to kawaii avatar chatroom and waifu star online.

EPISODE 2 AINT THE VALVRAVE OF GAMING

[thematesV2]

If people could respec as often as they want on a whim without being charged a penny (maybe charge an amount of ingame currency just to put a reasonable limit on it, sure), the level cap would be a much more interesting level to be at.

this. Borderlands 1&2 did it brilliantly. death and respec don't cost anything exp wise, but they charge a set percentage of your in-game currency. 10% i believe. so it's better to not die a lot, but if you die at level 100 it's just as painful as if you were level 20. no more, no less. same with respec.

I think much more of this game should be strictly percentage of what you have. (perhaps even on a sliding scale, so the higher level you are, the more careful you have to be.)

perhaps they should have you lose a percent of your in game currency (banked) each time you die, too. make it 5%. that way, whether you stash or not, you would have to be more careful about not dying.

that currency could be put into a jackpot that everyday gets split amongst a few randomly chosen players. or based on equipment. the lower your equipment quality, the higher chance you have to win.

[The Walrus]

Lets not have you lose something upon death...

[thematesV2]

why not? everyone complains about how easy the game is. and how money isn't worth anything. I see the majority of people on here showing screens with 3mil - 200mil meseta.

why not mix it up a bit. I don't want them to make you lose precious equips, but... something.

[HIT0SHI]

why not? everyone complains about how easy the game is. and how money isn't worth anything. I see the majority of people on here showing screens with 3mil - 200mil meseta.

why not mix it up a bit. I don't want them to make you lose precious equips, but... something.

No thanks, that would be atrocious >_>

[The Walrus]

why not? everyone complains about how easy the game is. and how money isn't worth anything. I see the majority of people on here showing screens with 3mil - 200mil meseta.

why not mix it up a bit. I don't want them to make you lose precious equips, but... something.

All it would do is serve to frustrate people when they die. This game does not need to try and frustrate people more than it already does.

[Zenobia]

why not? everyone complains about how easy the game is. and how money isn't worth anything. I see the majority of people on here showing screens with 3mil - 200mil meseta.

why not mix it up a bit. I don't want them to make you lose precious equips, but... something.

Anybody who says money dosen't matter is stupid. In ths game money revolves around EVERYTHING cause to me Meseta=Equips,costumes etc.

Now if money didn't matter all I would have to do is say give me some meseta and if you tell me no then your just as fucked up in the head as the next person.

To sum it up if you say money doesn't matter in this game then equips don't matter.

[Zyrusticae]

I fully expect Episode 2 to include loads more changes not already covered in the trailers (because it's kind of hard to hype up balance changes and shit like that in a trailer).

That being said, I'm plenty entertained by the game even in its current state and, despite my many, MANY gripes about the game's terrible balance, they are far from the worst out there in those terms (that belongs to games like MWO where the devs are not only incompetent, but willfully ignorant as well).

[~Aya~]

Cant play this game like its WoW or Tera or Ffxi.. its just not like that. Its more casual with great gameplay.

You will quickly burn yourself out on pso2 by constantly playing it...

[MetalDude]

I'm most looking forward to the more minute changes. I feel refinement adds quite a lot when done in spades and I'd love for certain aspects to keep getting improvements over time. The first thing I did when I saw the bumped infodump was look for the minor changes (auto equip sets, Subclass EXP gains).

[Kise]

What keeps me going? Youtube subscribers.

Gotta feed the fiends somehow

[gigawuts]

I'm most looking forward to the more minute changes. I feel refinement adds quite a lot when done in spades and I'd love for certain aspects to keep getting improvements over time. The first thing I did when I saw the bumped infodump was look for the minor changes (auto equip sets, Subclass EXP gains).

Yeah...that's what really gets me about this game. There is so little polish that it's really a bit embarrassing. It really displays a complete lack of thoroughness with playtesting, if there was any at all. This can be found in not just UI details, but even hitboxes with player attacks. Some attacks have just downright bizarre hitboxes, such as Over End where it seems to magically decide to hit from the top down, forward to back. You see ragne's leg directly in front of you? No no no, you're going to hit his face mask. Plus the lack of finer balancing for PA's, of the same weapon type but also of different weapon types. It's just...they really don't understand their own game.

[jooozek]

i still dont understand what the fuck is jumping doing in this game
where is my 5th/6th action slot from PSO/PSZ sega????

[Vintasticvin]

Still trying to understand the "ending" of ep1.... Made no lick of sense.

[Skyly HUmar]

No sword is much better and more effective in overall usage than DA why cause OE Sonic arrow Rising slash twister fall etc learn to HU!

Btw you should use Daggers its a good weapon learn it. It has a shift button which blocks all incoming atk all around you use it as I use every one of my weps I can tell you're prob an average HU/FI player.

Some low tier HU/FI user's in here lol. Daggers don't need a buff you're just bad at the game as far as using em is concerned.

LOL, when you posted that i honestly expected someone to come and say something dumb like "You just think that way because you dont know how to spam DA".

And yeah, every wep is good at it's own situation, Ill be honest I rarely use daggers on a boss, but it's the only thing ill use on a windria, and they make no damage runs easier.

[GuardianGirth]

Besides the dodge, Twin daggers suck, end of story.

[Enforcer MKV]

*continues circle strafing everything* :lol:

Seriously, though, I am looking forward to EP2, in particular subclasses getting exp now and that extra Char. slot.

[Dan Maku]

I have played the game semi-casually since launch, as have my friends (I haven't reached the cap with any of my classes, and only one of my friends is close to the cap), so I haven't gotten bored with the game yet. I think a big problem a lot of players who are bored have is that they rush through the game as quickly as they can, hit the level cap, and once they're on top, they have nowhere to go and their interest in the game wanes quickly thereafter.

It also helps that me and my friends skype while playing, and we talk about life, philosophy, and how much the Xbone sucks while we play (similar to when we play Minecraft).

[Reikoku na kuma]

I have played the game semi-casually since launch, as have my friends (I haven't reached the cap with any of my classes, and only one of my friends is close to the cap), so I haven't gotten bored with the game yet. I think a big problem a lot of players who are bored have is that they rush through the game as quickly as they can, hit the level cap, and once they're on top, they have nowhere to go and their interest in the game wanes quickly thereafter.

I agree.

[thematesV2]

three cheers for casual PSOing!

i'm at 45, and have been here since release! woo!

[Z-0]

I think a big problem a lot of players who are bored have is that they rush through the game as quickly as they can, hit the level cap, and once they're on top, they have nowhere to go and their interest in the game wanes quickly thereafter.
That's the problem. Becoming "bored" after you hit this point shouldn't happen. There should always be something to keep your players playing -- after all, wouldn't your most hardcore players (most likely, before someone kills me) be the ones who would pay the most?

Back when Interrupt Rankings happened often, I wasn't really bored at the cap, but after making them once a week instead of once a day at least... yeah, that really killed my enjoyment of the game, since it felt like I had a purpose with all my gear / levels.

I uninstalled yesterday myself, because the dripfeed is atrocious, considering PSO2 is not a very well fleshed out game. Maybe I'll be back in December when they introduce that new quest type.

[gigawuts]

Indeed. A good game treats its endgame as just as valuable, if not more valuable, than its new player experience.

A game that focuses purely on its NPE is destined for failure - there are only going to be so many new players.

Then again, this is true of all games eventually, although that's not the point.

And, re: hardcore players. No. They don't pay the most. A hundred new players with a dollar each pay the most. Welcome to F2P, where you just don't matter.

[Vintasticvin]

three cheers for casual PSOing!

i'm at 45, and have been here since release! woo!

Yay also for lobby ratting, Fashion modelling(?), and FOcast Supremacy!

[Du1337]

Why not bring beasts back instead of dewmans (or derps is how I like to call them)...


Posted from Pso-world.com App for Android

[Zyrusticae]

And, re: hardcore players. No. They don't pay the most. A hundred new players with a dollar each pay the most. Welcome to F2P, where you just don't matter.
Actually, this isn't true. The most profitable players in a F2P game are the scant few that pay hundreds to thousands of dollars on a single game. 0.0077% of players generate 33% of F2P game revenue. (http://www.pocketgamer.biz/r/PG.Biz/Chart+of+the+Week/feature.asp?c=51170) Now you know where all those AC scratch costumes are coming from!


That's the problem. Becoming "bored" after you hit this point shouldn't happen. There should always be something to keep your players playing -- after all, wouldn't your most hardcore players (most likely, before someone kills me) be the ones who would pay the most?
Okay, let's be serious here - the only games that have a sustained "hardcore" player base are all competitive PvP games. There has not been a single PvE game in the history of the universe that has managed to maintain a dedicated hardcore player base for years after launch - and if there has, I'd want to know about it.

One of these days you'll just have to accept that there will never be a PvE game that will last you forever.

[The Walrus]

I thought WoW had a pretty dedicated hardcore player base still?

[MetalDude]

While the PvP comment is true, PSO2 could stand to have significantly more lasting PvE content. PSO1 managed because it had great quest variety (online at least) and hunting wasn't limited to finding something with the best stats. These are probably PSO2's biggest problems and part of why I seriously hope the new area brings more than the generic round of Arks Quests. The game is in desperate need of more stable content akin to PSO1.

[gigawuts]

Actually, this isn't true. The most profitable players in a F2P game are the scant few that pay hundreds to thousands of dollars on a single game. 0.0077% of players generate 33% of F2P game revenue. (http://www.pocketgamer.biz/r/PG.Biz/Chart+of+the+Week/feature.asp?c=51170) Now you know where all those AC scratch costumes are coming from! Oh lord.

Still, for the bulk of players it's a true statement. Just not the top... .0077% (man it is depressing people will pay that much on one single game...spread it out! put a thousand diamonds on your diamond encrusted teeth in fifty games, not fifty thousand diamonds in just one!)



Okay, let's be serious here - the only games that have a sustained "hardcore" player base are all competitive PvP games. There has not been a single PvE game in the history of the universe that has managed to maintain a dedicated hardcore player base for years after launch - and if there has, I'd want to know about it.

One of these days you'll just have to accept that there will never be a PvE game that will last you forever.

I'm not going to comment on this statement, although I don't think it's true or the point, because I can't really be fucked with looking up figures.

But I will say the difference between a decade's worth of sustaining endgame content, and zero endgame content, is not a small one and they could very easily generate a great amount of sustainable, fun content.

One thought off the top of my head? Take a page out of Monster Hunter's book, and give enemies varying sizes, strengths, and varying tendencies to use different attacks under different conditions. Take a page out of PS' own books and make items more common, but unique so you focus on finding 10 functionally different weapons instead of a single weapon that's 10 times harder to get - and by "functionally different" I dont' mean 12% bonus damage against natives instead of darkers.

All of that is good for endgame, and will retain players. For forever? Of course not. But is that even the point? No.

[Alisha]

something i like about tdags is that they are more tactical. some of the more OP pa's leave you with large periods of vulnerbility. with the flash kick pa you can keep many mobs from ever getting a chance to attack you. to me on hunter classes this is a huge boon due to how shitty mates are.

[Zyrusticae]

I'm not going to comment on this statement, although I don't think it's true or the point, because I can't really be fucked with looking up figures.

But I will say the difference between a decade's worth of sustaining endgame content, and zero endgame content, is not a small one and they could very easily generate a great amount of sustainable, fun content.

One thought off the top of my head? Take a page out of Monster Hunter's book, and give enemies varying sizes, strengths, and varying tendencies to use different attacks under different conditions. Take a page out of PS' own books and make items more common, but unique so you focus on finding 10 functionally different weapons instead of a single weapon that's 10 times harder to get - and by "functionally different" I dont' mean 12% bonus damage against natives instead of darkers.

All of that is good for endgame, and will retain players. For forever? Of course not. But is that even the point? No.
Oh sure, absolutely. I can think of dozens of ways to extend the lifetime of the game (add a true survival mode, increase the frequency of multiple simultaneous emergency codes, fix the fucked balance to encourage more experimentation with PAs, etc.), but I'm just saying you should really expect to get burned out pretty quickly if you're a hardcore player regardless of whether or not they have these features. That's just the nature of being a hardcore gamer messing with a PvE game.

I've seen waaaaaaay too many people just burn through all the PvE content a game has to offer within a month to believe that it's really that easy to produce a game that can hold those players' attention for an extended period of time.

[Rosel]

I can't give it as much credit as you Zyrusticae.

If you sat me down for an hour or two I could come up with some fun and challenging activities to add to the game which would keep people playing for a long time, and not feel like they were being drip fed.

If you sat me down for an hour or two with the damage formulas for the Photon Arts I could probably improve balance by twentyfold.

The new areas are the parts of the game which clearly get the most work spent on them, and even they are looking increasingly sloppy with each new release. The latest 'foggy' area (which isn't really new anymore) being a copy paste job and a total displeasure to play in.

It seems like the developers work for about 2 weeks to a month (mostly on cash shop cosmetics) and then take 4 months off.

[Rosel]

Also, if Episode II has a ton of balancing, I will be happy, but...

Either way, I think it's still pretty lackluster for Episode II, isn't it? I mean, does it compare to PSO's Episode II?

It looks, you know, pretty large for an update, but 'Episode II' comes off as an expansion, and what I see in the information on it is a lot of corner cutting (Dewmans look like a shoehorned in, half assed race).

I heard a rumor that the new areas are also going to be dripfed over 6 months. So, how is this an Episode II?

[thematesV2]

I can't give it as much credit as you Zyrusticae.

If you sat me down for an hour or two I could come up with some fun and challenging activities to add to the game which would keep people playing for a long time, and not feel like they were being drip fed.

If you sat me down for an hour or two with the damage formulas for the Photon Arts I could probably improve balance by twentyfold.

The new areas are the parts of the game which clearly get the most work spent on them, and even they are looking increasingly sloppy with each new release. The latest 'foggy' area (which isn't really new anymore) being a copy paste job and a total displeasure to play in.

It seems like the developers work for about 2 weeks to a month (mostly on cash shop cosmetics) and then take 4 months off.

I find this funny.

it's like you think you have experience working on AAA titles or multi-national software releases.

I'm not saying you don't, I don't know.

work takes time. good work takes longer, great work takes much longer. sure, PSO isn't all great work, but it's good enough that most of us keep playing it.

I think everyone could come up with fun activities that would keep some people entertained, but implementing those without adding bugs or misbalancing another section of the game takes a ton of effort and time.

(not that PSO's balanced isn't shifting all the time anyways... haha)

[Rosel]

I think everyone could come up with fun activities that would keep some people entertained, but implementing those without adding bugs or misbalancing another section of the game takes a ton of effort and time.

Don't worry, they get paid. A lot of people pay for this game.

Adding new things takes time and effort, and this game DESERVES some time and effort put into it.

Right now, PSO2 appears to be being used like a whore. SEGA is testing how little time and money they can invest into the game while producing as much profits as possible.

We have received no significant balancing. We have received no challenging content. No content for powerful or skilled players. Basically anything this game needs that requires some thought and time, they haven't done.

[thematesV2]

I agree, they haven't put in a whole lot for capped players. Or even just players at the 80% and up level.

and I know they get paid. but what's paying their bills? i would assume it's the AC scratch thats paying the majority of their bills, so of course thats where they're going to invest their money. and it's a smart move for the team, IMO. they develop content players want, and through RNG/casino logic, they have the servers do the work, and they bring in the money.

I don't mind this structure, but thats because I'm not a hard core player. I play 4-8 times a month, logging anywhere from 150-200 hours in the last year, so I'm still finding new stuff.

I do think that if they are going to continue with the gatcha scratch, they should have more events and one of a time items. or develop some way to cash in on old weaps, beyond just mag feeding and affix transfer fodder.

and with all the pseudo-science that pso relies on, they could come up with some really nice formats for tradeoffs and special repeating events.

[Skye-Fox713]

I haven't even finished the ep.1 story yet.

[NoiseHERO]

I haven't even finished the ep.1 story yet.

That would require the story mode to be both interesting AND rewarding, If you ask me...

Which it's neither.

[blace]

That would require the story mode to be both interesting AND rewarding, If you ask me...

Which it's neither.
It's too much effort to get the story going when the requirements are already high.

[gigawuts]

would you rather...
play pso2 story
watch naruto

i would rather watch naruto

or wait, what's the new old anime, I don't keep up

[Rosel]

PSO2 makes Naruto's writing look Shakespearean. They're not even on the same league. PSO2's plot is infantile and insults the player's intelligence.

I don't think they even conceptualized the world that they've created. I don't believe for a second that there is any kind of real lore or setting. They just add crap as they go along, thus the relentless discrepancies.

[Alisha]

i'm now convinced there will be little to no balancing in ep2 outside of new stuff(new pa's,higher pa levels)

[gigawuts]

If they add level 16+ PA's with the damage leaps again, instead of fixing PA behaviors, any hope for real balance in this game is gone.

They've done bulk fixes and overhauls with major updates in the past. They might do it now.

If they don't, well, they've made it clear they won't do them on the fly.

[MetalDude]

Well, I definitely doubt we're getting new skills until at the minimum October.

[Zenobia]

LOL, when you posted that i honestly expected someone to come and say something dumb like "You just think that way because you dont know how to spam DA".

And yeah, every wep is good at it's own situation, Ill be honest I rarely use daggers on a boss, but it's the only thing ill use on a windria, and they make no damage runs easier.

I was actually bracing myself for that, but it seems not to be the case lol.

[AgemFrostMage]

PSO2 makes Naruto's writing look Shakespearean. They're not even on the same league. PSO2's plot is infantile and insults the player's intelligence.

I don't think they even conceptualized the world that they've created. I don't believe for a second that there is any kind of real lore or setting. They just add crap as they go along, thus the relentless discrepancies.

Who cares? As long as the gameplay is good. Didn't even know there was a plot outside of, "You kill them because it's your job!" and it is all games really require.

[AgemFrostMage]

I thought WoW had a pretty dedicated hardcore player base still?

It's mostly PK for the hardcore playerbase in WoW.

[~Aya~]

If I wanted good story i'd play single player rpg or something.. mmo to me are great for people playing together and thats about it.

[Alisha]

ffxi had pretty good story

[~Aya~]

ffxi had pretty good story



Yeah.. I actually kinda liked ffxi's.. but i think mainly because i like everything ff lol..

[Ezodagrom]

I kinda like the PSO2 story, but... I have very simple tastes when it comes to stories, so I can enjoy almost anything... o-o;;

[Alucard V]

Well I never had high hopes for the story. It's the lack of Event Missions that has me disappointed. In the Age of DLC it should be easier to have more of thees Limited-time Quest.

[Jei182]

I kinda like the PSO2 story, but... I have very simple tastes when it comes to stories, so I can enjoy almost anything... o-o;;
I haven't seen much of the story yet. I usually love a game with a good story but it isn't always the story that keeps me playing. And I recently quit WoW once I heard about this. My guild had all but shrunk down to 5 and I was getting tired of the same repetitive guild split-ups/reasons for doing so.

It wasn't any use paying $15 a month and not using the content or to get into it just to have the guild split up because someone didn't get an item they could have gotten in the future. WoW still has a lot of players, but a lot of people seem to be quitting as well. I think it still has a strong fan base after 10 or so years, and I was a part of that on and off for like 7 or 8 even though I started not too long after the release.

[ShinMaruku]

i'm now convinced there will be little to no balancing in ep2 outside of new stuff(new pa's,higher pa levels)

We always knew that.

[NoiseHERO]

I completely forgot new PA's could be a thing...

Why isn't it a thing...

[Ezodagrom]

I completely forgot new PA's could be a thing...

Why isn't it a thing...
It's going to be a thing, from what was found through datamining, there's 1 new PA for each weapon and 1 new technic for each element.

[gigawuts]

What I'm most intrested in with braver is whether it'll be single target or AOE (looking like single target for ordinary damage, with an AOE special skill), plus how its skills will benefit other classes.

Will everything from here on out be braver/ranger, for the great damage and the weak bullet bows? Will it be ranger/braver for that AOE devastator skill? Will the extra abilities, skills, and weapon options justify going fighter/braver instead of fighter/hunter, or will that comparison be the same as ranger/gunner vs. ranger/hunter?

Then will there be any reason at all to go braver/fighter over braver/hunter?

It'd be really easy to fuck this up, by making it too good or too bad. This update seriously needs to rebalance classes if they're adding a 7th.

[Ezodagrom]

What I'm most intrested in with braver is whether it'll be single target or AOE (looking like single target for ordinary damage, with an AOE special skill), plus how its skills will benefit other classes.

Will everything from here on out be braver/ranger, for the great damage and the weak bullet bows? Will it be ranger/braver for that AOE devastator skill? Will the extra abilities, skills, and weapon options justify going fighter/braver instead of fighter/hunter, or will that comparison be the same as ranger/gunner vs. ranger/hunter?

It'd be really easy to fuck this up, by making it too good or too bad.
Skill tree wise, no idea if these were just placeholders or if it'll really have these, but:

Compound Bow appears to have Weak Bullet, Panic Shot, and Bind Bullet (.../arrow). Katana's got a whole bunch of weird PA listings (PA5 alone has like 15 different effects, possibly gear-based?).

[gigawuts]

Yeah, I know of those - which is what's concerning me. I doubt braver will get those skills itself, but I'm completely expecting the skills to work with bows if you sub or main ranger. You'd just load it up and swap it in, same as a rifle.

[NoiseHERO]

I honestly rather a new class/weapon be overpowered than have more classes/weapons that are barely functional at all.

At the end of the day... this game is too casual to care too much about balance. The real let down around the way a class or weapon is set up, is whether or not they just suck in general.

So if bow is the new god weapon, good for them I'll say, I don't give a fluck.

But if somehow Katana is a piece of shit.... (Or similar scenario to daggers where it has a niche function... That's rarely needed on top of mediocre damage.)

Well... At least I'd finally be able to fully quit this game. : D

But that movement attack/skill and being a quick weapon with just-guarding gives me high hopes.

edit: Also getting the last post on a page is the worst thing ever.

[Hrith]

The game is still fun to me, because I find all classes, all weapon types fun to use, but I wish the game had more balance in how you can become efficient.
In PSO1, gear barely mattered, skill did. PSU made gear matter more, but still skill was more important. PSO2 has made gear everything, skill barely matters, and usually surprises other players, including myself. Because of that, people play absurdly powerful glass cannons (with gear they have bought and not found) and think themselves good players. The better the gear, the worse the player.

Also, make support less of a pain, ffs. Get rid of the 'ticking' system for support techniques, get rid of the charge time for support techniques, make buffs last five minutes if TE is your main class, you know, like PSO and PSU did, and did it right...

I can look past all the other things I dislike about PSO2, they do not really affect me, just the idea makes me sick when I do think about it, so I can say I'm satisfied on the whole, but making equipment matter less and support more pleasant to play are crucial points.

[Hrith]

#1 - Can you point me to one wrong thing I have ever posted? You're the only troll here, and a bad one.

#2 - Have you even played PSO1? Do you even know who I am? =/
In PSO1, I could outperform people using hacked 100% 11~12* weapons with found 9~10* weapons.
I could cite you countless examples of players with 100% Black King Bar or Tsumikiri or other cheated items lagging behind me and my 0% Zanba and Meteor Cudgel, or that funny instance where a HUcast with 50% hit Charge Vulcans was humiliated by my HUnewearl using Red Daggers. Do the math yourself, HUcast + Charge Vulcans v. HUnewearl + Red Daggers, and tell me equipment mattered.
As usual, you have made a fool of yourself by absolute ignorance of what was discussed. The truth is you know nothing, and out of the people who know nothing, the most pleasant are those who shut the fuck up.

[gigawuts]

#1 - Can you point me to one wrong thing I have ever posted? You're the only troll here, and a bad one.http://www.pso-world.com/forums/showthread.php?t=200779


#2 - Have you even played PSO1? Do you even know who I am? =/Unfortunately, yes.

[Hrith]

I wish I knew what I have ever said about gunner that was not pure fact. All I can read in that topic is people ignoring facts to impose their own atrociously narrow-minded opinions - and I mean literally, the best arguments in there are 'here is your fact, I cannot say anything against it, so I will resort to my old argument, unchanged'.
Get out of your clan of noobs here a bit more, you will notice 99% of the players do not agree with you, do not play like you, and probably outperform you nonetheless.

In fact, most players now consider PSO-World a noob haven and an altogether unpleasant place where you get flamed if you do not conform to the general idea, because of people like you. Which you have just proven once more. You are not better than anyone, so stop acting like you are.


Unfortunately, yes.For someone who's joined in June 2012, I doubt that.
Funny how suddenly, you have no argument except being rude.


Just out of curiosity, who are you, and what does it have to do with anything?I am your father.

[AgemFrostMage]

The game is still fun to me, because I find all classes, all weapon types fun to use, but I wish the game had more balance in how you can become efficient.
In PSO1, gear barely mattered, skill did. PSU made gear matter more, but still skill was more important. PSO2 has made gear everything, skill barely matters, and usually surprises other players, including myself. Because of that, people play absurdly powerful glass cannons (with gear they have bought and not found) and think themselves good players. The better the gear, the worse the player.

Also, make support less of a pain, ffs. Get rid of the 'ticking' system for support techniques, get rid of the charge time for support techniques, make buffs last five minutes if TE is your main class, you know, like PSO and PSU did, and did it right...

I can look past all the other things I dislike about PSO2, they do not really affect me, just the idea makes me sick when I do think about it, so I can say I'm satisfied on the whole, but making equipment matter less and support more pleasant to play are crucial points.

Maybe the skillcap is lower in PSO2 than PSO1 but skill still matters. You need to know when to dodge and can get cheaply two or even one shotted in even the best gear for your level. "Best" of course not applying stamina, the most important defensive stat as higher HP mitigates strikes, spells, and guns while the various defenses only defend against strike (second most important defensive stat) and ranged (third). Techs never really hit the player often enough for T-DEF to really matter and T-DEF is only good for meeting equipment prerequisites.

[Hrith]

That was clearly the mature reaction. Someone tells you something is wrong with you, what you must absolutely never do is give it a thought. 'Something wrong about me? I'd rather flame you to death than even consider it, or I might become a better person, eww'.

The funniest part is this is not even a dialogue. I came here to express my feelings about PSO2, Mr bad troll chose to pick one line of my post and make a whole fuss about it, while he could have ignored it - even though I am once again factually right, he could have chosen, you know, NOT to reply, and just keep his 'PSO1 equipment matters' idea to himself. So he trolled me, baited me when I was just posting an innocent comment about my feelings on PSO2 so far, which is the fucking topic title.
It's yourself against yourself.
I just came here to reply to a topic, hate mongerers who never look in a mirror will not faze me.

[The Walrus]

To be fair saying that gear doesn't matter is a bit of a stretch. Both gear and skill matter in the first. Now it's just all gear :D

[BlankM]

Gear matters in both games, I'm sorry but its especially true in PSO regardless of the gap. You listed yourself some quality weapons, and honestly mechanically the game is NOT that hard. So unless by skill you mean knowledge and situational awareness, I do not think skill will allow you to overcome the gear barrier too often. They'd have to be pretty poor players for it to not matter. So I really don't care for your elitist drivel. Especially after reading you cite your Gunner knowledge as fact.

Back on topic. I'd be okay with endgame content being scarce if you could do it in the first place. The few fun things to do in this game are once a day. Time attacks, extreme quests etc. AQ'ing is literally just a mind-numbing grind for what? Reskins of weapons you already have? Meseta that you can get by sitting at the visiphone/dudu'ing? Endgame content is there its just locked away artificially. Just like everything else in the game.

It just seems like not only does SEGA not want me to play the game, they don't want my money either. Extreme passes are account locked? Bleh...

[MetalDude]

PSO is very largely positioning and having the right tool for the right situation, ie. gear. The difference between it and PSO2 is that PSO was never so heavily dependent on the weapon stats which is why you have a ton of unique gear that doesn't all serve the same purpose of just killing the enemy.

[BlankM]

While thats true, getting competent gear in PSO2 is easy. Rarely will a slightly better weapon make the difference between one-shotting something or not. And since mob killing is most of the gameplay...

There are just too many things going against the hardcore player. Unless you have lots of meseta, every investment you make towards gear could be made null by the next update. Because there's literally nothing going for the lesser weapons, its all stats.

[Enforcer MKV]

While thats true, getting competent gear in PSO2 is easy. Rarely will a slightly better weapon make the difference between one-shotting something or not. And since mob killing is most of the gameplay...

There are just too many things going against the hardcore player. Unless you have lots of meseta, every investment you make towards gear could be made null by the next update. Because there's literally nothing going for the lesser weapons, its all stats.

That's exactly why the game gets boring for a lot of players: It's a straight gear treadmill. Wait for stronger weapon, look for stronger weapon, etc, etc. The special abilities don't really...add a lot.

...of course at the end of the day, I'm still using Gear from several months ago and I still manage. *shrugs* Mobs aren't that hard that you near the best stuff, anyway.

^^;

[Quatre52]

Very satisfied, I love the game, its taken everything I loved about PSO and PSU and combined them into one fun game.

I'm honestly not sure where some peoples complaints come from, and can only assume those who hate this game, must have hated the old games too? Which leads me to wonder why they chose to play this game...

At any rate, I find the game to be amazing, and cant wait to see what episode 2 adds.

[MetalDude]

Really? What an ignorant assumption.

[The Walrus]

Actually most of us love the original. People split on PSU though.

[Dan Maku]

That does bring up a question for me: as much as people like to complain about the game, why do they stick around in the game and on the forum? It's not like Sega's gonna read the forums (honestly, it's rare for any game company to look at forums, especially English ones in the case of a Japanese company).

[The Walrus]

The game is still entertaining to some extent.

Plus I dunno about the others but I like you guys.

You're all fun people.

[Touka]

Satisfied but the game could use improvements no doubt.Hopefully they'll release more in depth info about Episode 2 soon.

[MetalDude]

That does bring up a question for me: as much as people like to complain about the game, why do they stick around in the game and on the forum? It's not like Sega's gonna read the forums (honestly, it's rare for any game company to look at forums, especially English ones in the case of a Japanese company).
Well off the top of my head, Z-0 left and I don't think gigawuts plays much at all. My connection to the games is friends and having to hit 60 on my classes (every class is fully equipped at this point). I'm also setting up 40 COs so that I can boost Braver the instant I get it. I've got things to do but I can't say I'm really happy with the lack of signs of the game really improving.

[BlankM]

Very satisfied, I love the game, its taken everything I loved about PSO and PSU and combined them into one fun game.

I'm honestly not sure where some peoples complaints come from, and can only assume those who hate this game, must have hated the old games too? Which leads me to wonder why they chose to play this game...

At any rate, I find the game to be amazing, and cant wait to see what episode 2 adds.

I have tons of hours logged into PSOBB.

This game is a far cry from it honestly.

But yes, I came for the love of the series. I stay for the people.

[Jakosifer]

I will return for Episode 2 and save you all if it fails to. I promise...

/jumps through glass

WHEN YOU WALK AWAY...YOU DON'T HEAR ME SAY...PLEAAAAASE OH BAAAAABY...DON'T GO

[Jyasupa]

You know what would be hilarious

If sega charged AC per use for partner machinery.

[TaigaUC]

PSO2 has fundamentally poor game design. There is almost nothing in terms of gameplay depth, it's all just superficial random number generation item drip feeding. They've spent virtually no time on what really matters. They just have the base combat, and then minor stat upgrades for the rest of your life. Vindictus has the exact same problem - you unlock all the major abilities immediately and then you get almost nothing but +1% stat increases for 20-40+ levels.

Aside from classes/weapons (which are horribly imbalanced and take months to level and gear up to be effective), there is nothing that really changes gameplay style, and hence there is nothing to experiment with. Doesn't help that they also discourage you from experimenting via the rarity of items, terrible talent/skill system, etc. What gameplay the game does have is easy to master because of its shallow depth. I was thinking to myself the other day, that PSO2's stupid skill (talent) tree balance (ie. there's basically only one viable skill path for every class) makes perfect sense if their goal is to trick people into screwing up and buying a reset pass.

Take that new BB boss fight as an example of just how boring this game is. Cougar NX has a ton of fancy abilities, but how is he to fight against? Just spam the same strongest attack over and over, and dodge all of his attacks the same way. That's it. In games with deeper gameplay, players have a variety of unique abilities to act and react within the context of many different situations. In contrast, almost all the abilities in this game focus on damage. That's why it's boring.

In regards to episode 2... it doesn't look like they are adding anything to make the core gameplay deeper. More superficial stuff, more enemies. More badly presented story.

So, why do I keep playing? I just like my characters, and the melee combat is sometimes fun for a brief time after a long break. It's nice that this is an action game with online co-op multiplayer, but there is almost no co-op interaction (everyone just does their own thing towards the same goal) and everyone has to be on the same page in terms of level and unlocking to be able to play together, which is probably the single WORST thing about MMOs.
I just want to be able to play a nice online game with my close friends. We don't want to deal with all this MMO grinding progression bullshit. On the topic of friends, the people on my friends list in this game are hardly ever online. I see maybe one or two people, occasionally. I've seen Japanese people saying their entire lists are always offline.

Being an Arks must be the most boring job in the galaxy. Kill the same enemies over, and over, and over and over, and over and over. While wearing pretty clothes. I'll finish this post with a relevant comic strip.
http://www.pixiv.net/member_illust.php?mode=medium&illust_id=35631565
If you can understand them, all his comics are more fun than the actual game.

[MetalDude]

I would love to see those comics translated.

[The Walrus]

^
I second that.

[ShinMaruku]

PSO2 has fundamentally poor game design. There is almost nothing in terms of gameplay depth, it's all just superficial random number generation item drip feeding. They've spent virtually no time on what really matters. They just have the base combat, and then minor stat upgrades for the rest of your life. Vindictus has the exact same problem - you unlock all the major abilities immediately and then you get almost nothing but +1% stat increases for 20-40+ levels.

Aside from classes/weapons (which are horribly imbalanced and take months to level and gear up to be effective), there is nothing that really changes gameplay style, and hence there is nothing to experiment with. Doesn't help that they also discourage you from experimenting via the rarity of items, terrible talent/skill system, etc. What gameplay the game does have is easy to master because of its shallow depth. I was thinking to myself the other day, that PSO2's stupid skill (talent) tree balance (ie. there's basically only one viable skill path for every class) makes perfect sense if their goal is to trick people into screwing up and buying a reset pass.

Take that new BB boss fight as an example of just how boring this game is. Cougar NX has a ton of fancy abilities, but how is he to fight against? Just spam the same strongest attack over and over, and dodge all of his attacks the same way. That's it. In games with deeper gameplay, players have a variety of unique abilities to act and react within the context of many different situations. In contrast, almost all the abilities in this game focus on damage. That's why it's boring.

In regards to episode 2... it doesn't look like they are adding anything to make the core gameplay deeper. More superficial stuff, more enemies. More badly presented story.

So, why do I keep playing? I just like my characters, and the melee combat is sometimes fun for a brief time after a long break. It's nice that this is an action game with online co-op multiplayer, but there is almost no co-op interaction (everyone just does their own thing towards the same goal) and everyone has to be on the same page in terms of level and unlocking to be able to play together, which is probably the single WORST thing about MMOs.
I just want to be able to play a nice online game with my close friends. We don't want to deal with all this MMO grinding progression bullshit. On the topic of friends, the people on my friends list in this game are hardly ever online. I see maybe one or two people, occasionally. I've seen Japanese people saying their entire lists are always offline.

Being an Arks must be the most boring job in the galaxy. Kill the same enemies over, and over, and over and over, and over and over. While wearing pretty clothes. I'll finish this post with a relevant comic strip.
http://www.pixiv.net/member_illust.php?mode=medium&illust_id=35631565
If you can understand them, all his comics are more fun than the actual game.
Put very well.
Sure some will like the game based on social factors (Which is big part why games with poor systems like mmos can thrive)
Or people take the game for what it is and not what it can be.
If you take the game for what it is well perhaps you are playing it right and are the right person for the game.

That said episode 3 or 4 should have something better than 2 would. 1 year and you expect Sonic Team to do something?

[LordShade]

I see it like this. You either like the game how it is, or you hate it.

I still think this game is vastly superior to most other MMOs on the market.

As for making the core gameplay deeper, the only thing I can think off is giving enemies 28797127398217895792132 new moves

I'm remaining positive about episode 2. I like the new system where enemies aggressiveness and moveset is changed based on time of day, I like how the boss has to be reeled in via harpoons to be able to break its pieces, I also like how enemies can change based on the weather on the new planet. The list of new PAs I've seen from various famitsu magazine snippets look fantastic, and they're all varied and have their role.

Towards the end of the year we have super very hard coming out, which from early datamined info shows new moves and new actions for almost every mob in the game, I know from people who are game devs just how hard it is and how many man hours it takes to do this kind of stuff (hint, 1 week prototype testing, 1 week of finalization, another week of Q.C before its deemed 'worthy' - and this is for just one mob/npc/enemy) We also have the much unknown Item Customization system in December, which if I'm assuming correctly, will be the ability to customize your weapons and units so that they're ALL unique.

Sure they're pretty far away, but whats stopping you from quitting entirely and waiting until said systems come out?

[Courina]

nope, this game awesome and fulfill lot things i dream of, but im seriously not satisfied how hard gettin drops here... i love you but i hate you sega...

[JNMeiun]

totally satisfied. some balance problems with classes and AI, but pso had that too.
*more content right now than pso1 had by this point and none of the obscene 1 in 1m or 1 in 10m drop chance (and good luck if your section id was wrong).
*significantly better than psu in pretty much every way, except for inheriting many players who started phantasy star with psu and can be absolutely intolerable with their min-maxing trends and dedication to 'optimal' play styles. You know the kind of person who, in pso1, might tell you that theres NO reason at all to roll RAmarl over RAcast or RAcaseal and act like you are an idiot for it without even considering the benefits. Maybe harder to place, but penetrating barta freeze >>>>> having to ask for ryuker evey time you run out of freeze traps; throw around jellen and zalure too to save the FO fluids you know?

didnt personally rush to the end content in an rpg, that's not a smart idea in the least and tend to only rush toward a level if its needed for something (45 on at least one class for aq, 50 for eq, 30 on all for bingo now etc.). why would you ever rush through content when much of it is even pre-40. doing story missions over leveled seems like a good way to ruin immersion as well.
if people are bored have nothing to do at this point its their own problem, pso1 had nothing but challenges to do at max level and thats pretty much just what EQ is now without the mission set gear templates and being reset to a certain level.

really just not sure why people expect the 'end' of content to have even a fraction as much 'game' as the rest of the game when they talk about how hard they're working to make it to 'end game'. Is being bored to wits how you get 'pro' at pso?

[jooozek]

*more content right now than pso1 had by this point and none of the obscene 1 in 1m or 1 in 10m drop chance (and good luck if your section id was wrong).

gotta be trollin

[JNMeiun]

gotta be trollin

nope. 1 in 100k or more on rare mobs that had 1 in 10k or 1 in 100k chance to replace a standard mob. welcome to jp dreamcast pso1 episode 1. maybe you started on gamecube or episode 2 dreamcast when this wasn't nearly so bad.

the only thing thats really different is that more weapons are class locked in pso2 than pso1 and theres more techniques with a lower max disc level. still no discus and slicers but we have partisans, twin swabre, something akin to twin dagger, saber, pistol, sword, rifle, launcher, mechguns, rod, wand, dual sabre and cards. only missing slicers, special launchers like iron faust, special race locked partisans like bardysh and katana.

there are about as many client orders as quests on ep2's launch, which were really just client orders + a map. there's about as many maps as pso1 with significantly more assets in them but they're smaller. they ARE missing all of the doors though for some reason but they're slightly better decorated and have gimmicks to make up for it. do miss the things like air jelly fish and such though.

nostalgia goggles?

[jooozek]

sounds like you never played pso2 :lol:

[JNMeiun]

sounds like you never played pso2 :lol:
sounds like you have a severe case of nostalgia goggles or expected pso2 to be something other than a successor to pso1. maybe you expected psu? do you even remember what it was like to get drops before people had built drop tables for section IDs, never mind the one in ten million chance for drops because of insane drop rarity AND insane mob rarity? you could get to level cap only to realize the drop you wanted will NEVER drop for you and the photon drop price was so high youd have to grind for weeks to get it.

remember the memory exploit in pso1 where people could pop you, corrupt your character potentially, and force you to drop everything you had on you to the ground in a room? remember how it wasn't fixed for almost a year?

given things like that and how absolutely beyond terrible psu was in almost every way things seem pretty good- especially given how similar pso1 and 2 are when comparing content level vs years since release.

[AgemFrostMage]

I like the game but the first thing I'd change is extreme gender and race stat differences. If I were a female newman my base T-ATK would be 386 and as a human male it's 365. That's not including mag. Considering paltry base stat gains (something else I'd fix) putting more than bare minimum in T-ATK up isn't optional for the best equipment =( My mag is sick of trimates at this point some weapons should just boost one stat and not stat + dex all the time. I'd instead replace base stat racial advantages with passives:

1.Newmans would have +5% extra tech damage but the same base T-ATK as other races with +5% R-DEF
2.CASTS would have +5% extra R-ATK and +5% S-DEF
3.Humans would have +5% extra S-ATK but extra 5% extra T-DEF, so the short end of the stick for defense but the best fighters.

It makes sense for robots to take hits better than beings made from meat but wouldn't want to create too much imbalance. This probably minimizes story/lore and gameplay segregation as much as possible, which is the idea. The rebalancing would also make CAST force and newman tanks very viable but less than optimal. Leveling and robots is a weird situation, humans can grow stronger and Dragon Ball Z is the most RPG like cartoon ever (despite its games being fighting games) with its progression and sorting algorithm of evil (Garland = Raditz, Chaos = Omega Shenron, etc. or heroes need more power as the story progresses to face bigger badder challenges) Making that apply to a robot will need some extra lore backing.

[jooozek]

you could get to level cap only to realize the drop you wanted will NEVER drop for you and the photon drop price was so high youd have to grind for weeks to get it.

sounds like pso2 alright :lol:

[JNMeiun]

sounds like pso2 alright :lol:

except loot is determined by class rather than section id and you can change your class, you couldn't change your section id. loot rarity in general was always pretty harsh in pso, even after it was fixed from the totally broken state in ep1 pso1.

what did you really expect from RNG going into a pso game? its not like a private server pso loot table. this is the real deal and sega's RNG loves to hate you. EP IV Blue Burst was the only PSO iteration where rares rained from the sky or were even remotely easy to get beyond trash rares like varista. getting above 'varista' quality rares quite regularly in pso2 right now and 10 stars drop about as commonly as varista did even under BB's loot table. Too bad no one wants them and they're worth no meseta.

just be happy you dont have to go looking for lvl 29 discs that drop with greater rarity than 12 star rare weapons in pso2?

[Ezodagrom]

except loot is determined by class rather than section id and you can change your class, you couldn't change your section id. loot rarity in general was always pretty harsh in pso, even after it was fixed from the totally broken state in ep1 pso1.
Only common items are determined by class, rares aren't.

[raiden55]

PSO2 has fundamentally poor game design. There is almost nothing in terms of gameplay depth, it's all just superficial random number generation item drip feeding. They've spent virtually no time on what really matters. They just have the base combat, and then minor stat upgrades for the rest of your life. Vindictus has the exact same problem - you unlock all the major abilities immediately and then you get almost nothing but +1% stat increases for 20-40+ levels.

Aside from classes/weapons (which are horribly imbalanced and take months to level and gear up to be effective), there is nothing that really changes gameplay style, and hence there is nothing to experiment with. Doesn't help that they also discourage you from experimenting via the rarity of items, terrible talent/skill system, etc. What gameplay the game does have is easy to master because of its shallow depth. I was thinking to myself the other day, that PSO2's stupid skill (talent) tree balance (ie. there's basically only one viable skill path for every class) makes perfect sense if their goal is to trick people into screwing up and buying a reset pass.

Take that new BB boss fight as an example of just how boring this game is. Cougar NX has a ton of fancy abilities, but how is he to fight against? Just spam the same strongest attack over and over, and dodge all of his attacks the same way. That's it. In games with deeper gameplay, players have a variety of unique abilities to act and react within the context of many different situations. In contrast, almost all the abilities in this game focus on damage. That's why it's boring.

In regards to episode 2... it doesn't look like they are adding anything to make the core gameplay deeper. More superficial stuff, more enemies. More badly presented story.

So, why do I keep playing? I just like my characters, and the melee combat is sometimes fun for a brief time after a long break. It's nice that this is an action game with online co-op multiplayer, but there is almost no co-op interaction (everyone just does their own thing towards the same goal) and everyone has to be on the same page in terms of level and unlocking to be able to play together, which is probably the single WORST thing about MMOs.
I just want to be able to play a nice online game with my close friends. We don't want to deal with all this MMO grinding progression bullshit. On the topic of friends, the people on my friends list in this game are hardly ever online. I see maybe one or two people, occasionally. I've seen Japanese people saying their entire lists are always offline.

Being an Arks must be the most boring job in the galaxy. Kill the same enemies over, and over, and over and over, and over and over. While wearing pretty clothes. I'll finish this post with a relevant comic strip.
http://www.pixiv.net/member_illust.php?mode=medium&illust_id=35631565
If you can understand them, all his comics are more fun than the actual game.
So true.

I like the game a lot on his concept, but it's currently boring pretty quickly.
The worst being it would only takes a few game designers to make the game fantastic, but seems Sega won't do that, only making artists work, who don't even make new animations.

[desperoth]

My only complain is that i cant trade without Premiun. Sure, new Players would run around begging for Stuff but thats normal.

Yesterday, me and a friend did a VH run on the Chaos quest. He got a Weapon i wanted, i got a Weapon he wanted. Now, both Weapons rot in our Storage. that frustrates me.

[Gama]

they could fix the trade system.

free users could only trade 1 item a day.

[BlankM]

except loot is determined by class rather than section id and you can change your class, you couldn't change your section id. loot rarity in general was always pretty harsh in pso, even after it was fixed from the totally broken state in ep1 pso1.

what did you really expect from RNG going into a pso game? its not like a private server pso loot table. this is the real deal and sega's RNG loves to hate you. EP IV Blue Burst was the only PSO iteration where rares rained from the sky or were even remotely easy to get beyond trash rares like varista. getting above 'varista' quality rares quite regularly in pso2 right now and 10 stars drop about as commonly as varista did even under BB's loot table. Too bad no one wants them and they're worth no meseta.

just be happy you dont have to go looking for lvl 29 discs that drop with greater rarity than 12 star rare weapons in pso2?

At least in PSO you had stuff to play with. In this game you might get rares but they're all just shitty reskins most likely with terrible sale value. Any good weapon you happen to find will most likely be outdated by something else, or already IS behind in comparison to a 50 element spellstone or 11* item.

In PSO you play a variety of different quests with unique layouts/dialogue/mob spawns, to play the game and get rarez, that are useful because of what they do and not just their stats, in quests that aren't random and don't have terrible rewards for running them... The game has much more depth then PSO2, even if PSO2 is still young in comparison. It just feels like with so much precedence the effort is not there or its a long ways off with the purpose of being dripfed.

No nostalgia goggles are needed. Just compare any of the racial differences, purely stats. No different ranges on techs, different animations, boosts to certain techs. At weapons, grind to +10 three times to have... a better photon flare? +3% damage? Higher automate chance? Again no varying ranges, buff or debuffs, or interesting uses for even the lesser weapons.

I don't really care about drop rates to be honest. At least that game rewarded me for playing the game. Getting photon drops was only the gradual progression. Getting rares for trade fodder was the real deal, and most of them were actually still useful for something. What do I do in this game? Market for meseta then buy the shiny stuff I want and call it a day. Its more feasible having an income process to get the next weapon with 30 extra atk then to look for it. Granted its not hard to entertain me, but many times I find myself in the lobby jumping around with nothing to do. XQ and TA are fun but are once a day, and have bad rewards at that(Unless you can grind for units or are a FO). I do a lot of AQ but only on rare drop day with 350% boosters running do I get something(And I'm sure there are people who did the same and got NOTHING). Again, an income source to fund you for whatever the next reskin is is smarter then trying to look for stuff. By the time you find it, something else will most likely have your eye. And it probably sucks and you just want it for looks/nostalgia anyway. If stuff you picked up on the ground had more stuff going for it like PSO, I'd be more inclined to throw my hand into the haystack. And I probably already do so more then the average as is...

[Zyrusticae]

Okay guys, we got it the first time, game is shit. Can we discuss something else now? I don't know, something that isn't depressing and irritating as all fucking get-out?

[BlankM]

Well the points have been discussed to death I'm sure. I just dislike when people make accusations regarding comparisons to PSOBB.

So will episode 2 save us? Well I will contrast the pessimism for you slightly. Its a long ways off but they certainly are adding stuff I want to see. Say what you will but the new boss looks really cool to me. Much more involved then what we've been seeing up til now. I'm excited for a completely new drop chart, so excited I doubt I'll have time to pay attention to a Duman. (Not looking forward to getting accessories again) The new limited quest is basically a non-stop EQ. Thats pretty good, even if it is kinda brainless.

[gigawuts]

I think answering the question the thread was created specifically to ask is okay, tbh.

If you ask if the community is satisfied, and the community doesn't feel satisfied, it's going to say so.

And, honestly, playing the nostalgia card is so frequently done here that I really don't think it can be beaten down hard enough.

[Zyrusticae]

By the way, the argument that everything you get will eventually be "outdated" is pure shit. It's always been a fucking stupid argument in the context of a game that will forever have escalating stat increases like every other online RPG that ever receives regular updates in the history of all of gaming. You do realize that the point at which you stop seeing gear getting "outdated" (which is an even MORE fucking stupid concept when you consider how tiny the stat increases are) is the point at which the game stops seeing any updates at all, right?

The whole "weapons that have other functions" thing gets to me to, because it completely disregards the fact that PAs supplanted that feature in its entirety. Now, this is a mixed bag because of the shitty PA balance, but it's not something you can just willfully ignore because of it. Of course they could give the weapons other effects that aren't only gained by grinding the damn things three times over, I perfectly well agree with that, but you shouldn't be surprised at all that these things don't have special attacks when they could just make those attacks another PA that every weapon can use in the first place.

There are plenty of things that need help in this game, but items are really on the last place of that list, behind better mob difficulty, harder game modes (that aren't locked behind this once-a-day pass bullshit), better balance everywhere, and so on.

[BlankM]

I disagree. Mainly because its one of the sole reasons I play the series. For item variety.

Items didn't get outdated this quickly simply because they had their use in different situations. If I have an item with +10 atk compared to +20, there is no reason to use the +10. If I had a weapon with slightly more range, buff or debuffed the enemy, or had a better chance at a specific status effect only that weapon may have... Yeah an update isn't going to stop me from using it. It also probably won't tank in price afterwards...

Photon arts aren't even well done either. A few weapons raise the effect of photon arts by a percentage. How about like shooting power waves or something like Girasole?

I'm not interested in difficulty. Why would I care whether something I spam mindlessly for days on end is difficult? It probably won't be difficult after a few tries and if it requires co-operation I'll just get frustrated at other players. Yes I agree, add a mode thats difficult, thats fun for end-game players once they've gotten all their gear. But its not one of my priorities. Good action game design can be found elsewhere for me. I just want to play with people without having them be on cooldown/losing passes or some other arbitrary crap.

Balance is meh. You can do whatever you want in the game, its merely easy to choose the best option. If say, you were locked into character/weapon choices and skill level ups, one might find more variety(And maybe even frustration). The balance is bad but there will always be things better then other things. That's simply how the game is designed at the moment. Lack of depth in utility.

[MetalDude]

PSO drop rates were bad? Sounds like somebody never played GC or BB because they were fixed to be a hell of a lot more manageable.

But that's the funny thing. The people throwing accusations at others upset with the game don't even understand why the original game was successful (or worse, didn't even play the later versions where things were infinitely better).

[gigawuts]

I've commented on most of that in the past, and you're entirely missing the point. I'll tackle it a bit out of order, because each part explains a portion of the next part.

First, PA's. Yes, those DID absorb some of the functions of different weapons. But every single weapon can use them. What made the varying abilities of weapons a fun feature wasn't the actual attack - it was the varying strengths. If you give every weapon the same selection of attacks, you remove the novelty of having weapons that function differently. There's no actual, real point to getting different weapons if they all perform the same. Thus, PA's are not the same as the different abilities of weapons in PSO1, they are instead an additional layer that does not have a parallel in PSO1. These special, unique, per-weapon abilities were part of the balancing points. A weapon with low ata might have a particularly potent paralyze special. Good for an upgrade over a non-rare weapon. This is your gateway into rares, and will outperform prior non-rare paralyze weapons. The next rare in line will have higher ata and atp, definitely, but will not have a paralyze special. If you want something that paralyzes you still go back to that older weapon. The older weapon still has a use even when you find a stronger weapon of the same type. Only after some time will it be completely outperformed - but nobody's asking for weapons that last forever, just ones that have an actual unique use that means they aren't strictly outperformed when you find a weapon with 1 more atp. No, I do not count 3% more damage from latents.

Second, planned obsolescence. This is a direct result of weapons not having unique abilities. Yes, a weapon in hard with a paralyze special will definitely be outperformed by a weapon in very hard with a paralyze special. That's good! Progression of loot is an important part of the game. But those are two entire difficulties apart - and from the start of hard to the start of very hard that weapon with paralyze special may still be your best paralyze weapon. Maybe you find a non-rare weapon with a high amount of ata and a paralyze special on the path to very hard. Well, you definitely have a weapon with higher atp by now, so you don't care about the atp on that first paralyze rare you found. So you can swap to the one with higher ata, which will hit more, and thus do its job better. That's great! But this higher ata weapon does not strictly outperform the initial paralyze rare, it just outperforms it in one aspect. And what's the result of this? You now have two separate weapons that are good at two different things, and are not merely PA's that you apply to your strongest weapon of a given class.

This is a layer of complexity and gameplay completely lacking in PSO2, and a large part of why many of us even played PSO1. This is not nostalgia. If we didn't like back then it we wouldn't have played it back then.

[Zyrusticae]

[spoiler-box]I've commented on most of that in the past, and you're entirely missing the point. I'll tackle it a bit out of order, because each part explains a portion of the next part.

First, PA's. Yes, those DID absorb some of the functions of different weapons. But every single weapon can use them. What made the varying abilities of weapons a fun feature wasn't the actual attack - it was the varying strengths. If you give every weapon the same selection of attacks, you remove the novelty of having weapons that function differently. There's no actual, real point to getting different weapons if they all perform the same. Thus, PA's are not the same as the different abilities of weapons in PSO1, they are instead an additional layer that does not have a parallel in PSO1. These special, unique, per-weapon abilities were part of the balancing points. A weapon with low ata might have a particularly potent paralyze special. Good for an upgrade over a non-rare weapon. This is your gateway into rares, and will outperform prior non-rare paralyze weapons. The next rare in line will have higher ata and atp, definitely, but will not have a paralyze special. If you want something that paralyzes you still go back to that older weapon. The older weapon still has a use even when you find a stronger weapon of the same type. Only after some time will it be completely outperformed - but nobody's asking for weapons that last forever, just ones that have an actual unique use that means they aren't strictly outperformed when you find a weapon with 1 more atp. No, I do not count 3% more damage from latents.

Second, planned obsolescence. This is a direct result of weapons not having unique abilities. Yes, a weapon in hard with a paralyze special will definitely be outperformed by a weapon in very hard with a paralyze special. That's good! Progression of loot is an important part of the game. But those are two entire difficulties apart - and from the start of hard to the start of very hard that weapon with paralyze special may still be your best paralyze weapon. Maybe you find a non-rare weapon with a high amount of ata and a paralyze special on the path to very hard. Well, you definitely have a weapon with higher atp by now, so you don't care about the atp on that first paralyze rare you found. So you can swap to the one with higher ata, which will hit more, and thus do its job better. That's great! But this higher ata weapon does not strictly outperform the initial paralyze rare, it just outperforms it in one aspect. And what's the result of this? You now have two separate weapons that are good at two different things, and are not merely PA's that you apply to your strongest weapon of a given class.

This is a layer of complexity and gameplay completely lacking in PSO2, and a large part of why many of us even played PSO1. This is not nostalgia. If we didn't like back then it we wouldn't have played it back then.[/spoiler-box]
I see your point.

This is clearly a highly subjective matter, because I personally could not possibly care less about this. I'm more interested in seeing other aspects of the game buffed up first, but you are certainly right that the game's item variety would be considerably improved even with just built-in status effects and such.

I disagree. Mainly because its one of the sole reasons I play the series. For item variety.

Items didn't get outdated this quickly simply because they had their use in different situations. If I have an item with +10 atk compared to +20, there is no reason to use the +10. If I had a weapon with slightly more range, buff or debuffed the enemy, or had a better chance at a specific status effect only that weapon may have... Yeah an update isn't going to stop me from using it. It also probably won't tank in price afterwards...
Funny, because there are other games that do the whole "item variety" thing a lot, a LOT better than the PSO series ever has (Diablo II in particular comes to mind here, with Path of Exile close behind). If that's really one of the sole reasons you play the series, there are better games for you to play for that purpose.


Photon arts aren't even well done either. A few weapons raise the effect of photon arts by a percentage. How about like shooting power waves or something like Girasole?What do item potentials have to do with whether or not photon arts are well done?


I'm not interested in difficulty. Why would I care whether something I spam mindlessly for days on end is difficult? It probably won't be difficult after a few tries and if it requires co-operation I'll just get frustrated at other players. Yes I agree, add a mode thats difficult, thats fun for end-game players once they've gotten all their gear. But its not one of my priorities. Good action game design can be found elsewhere for me. I just want to play with people without having them be on cooldown/losing passes or some other arbitrary crap.Wow... this opinion... wow. Just... wow.

Go play some Mass Effect 3 multiplayer, and then tell me that you don't care about difficulty. Or even some Dark Souls, for that matter.

Difficulty is HUGE in games like these. If you're constantly locked in an intense battle to preserve your own life, games like these are infinitely more fun and engaging. It's when you can casually, routinely destroy swathes of enemies without suffering any damage that things get boring, and that's the biggest problem the game faces right now for high-end players.

I can't take the opinion of someone who says "difficulty doesn't matter" very seriously at all.

Balance is meh. You can do whatever you want in the game, its merely easy to choose the best option. If say, you were locked into character/weapon choices and skill level ups, one might find more variety(And maybe even frustration). The balance is bad but there will always be things better then other things. That's simply how the game is designed at the moment. Lack of depth in utility.Ugh, I don't even know how to respond to this without sounding condescending.

Let me just say that the game would be better served if every PA and every skill on the skill trees had equal reason to be chosen and used versus the current state of the game. There is no arguing against this, and the reductionist attitude displayed here only shows a lack of perspective.

[gigawuts]

I see your point.

This is clearly a highly subjective matter, because I personally could not possibly care less about this. I'm more interested in seeing other aspects of the game buffed up first, but you are certainly right that the game's item variety would be considerably improved even with just built-in status effects and such.

That's totally fair, and I definitely see your stance and agree with it too. Difficulty and/or enemy AI could use some work. I just feel strongly about item balance and longevity, and approach weapons as a set of tools as an additional layer of either customization, preference, and just general content.

Edit: I should also say, I don't even mean limiting these various special abilities to status effects. Any number of different things could be given to weapons, SE's and a couple things done by PA's now were just what PSO1 used. The options for weapon abilities or properties are effectively limitless, given just how many facets there are to this game's combat (Also, this would be a balancing point itself - some attacks are pretty terrible, but they could be expanded on or modified by a weapon's special or something like that)

[Emberghost]

I have to agree with giga, there is just so much stuff you could do with weapons or even units to give them a bit of diversity. Just cranking up atk a bit on the new weapons is such a boring thing to do. Paralyse attacks would be a cool thing, or attacks to weaken an enemys armor/increasing damage dealt to him (much like weak bullet but not as strong) so your party can benefit from it. Or a weapon with built in Poison/Burn/etc effect, so you can enjoy more burning enemies if you are into it. For units I could imagine stuff like knocking away enemies when receiving heavy damage/on ability use or something like that. Don't exactly know the effects old PSO had, but there would be so much room for ideas.

The game isn't hard and doesn't need stuff like this, but it would be nice to have anyway. It is about character diversity with all those costumes and accessories, this would add a new layer of diversity to it.

[gigawuts]

PSO1's specials were definitely very limited. Right now, almost everything special that weapons in PSO1 did is covered by affixes, PA's, and skills.

The ones that aren't were also pretty simple - stuff like a set of mechguns with rifle range (shortest range gun given the range of the longest range gun). Then things like units that sped up physical attack speeds, or blocked certain SE's.

What this game could get is things like an increase to vacuum AOE, or applying bind to stunned enemies, or who knows what. It just needs to be more interesting than 10% damage against darkers as opposed to 10% damage against dragonkin, and then it needs to be sufficiently beneficial that when a stronger weapon comes out it won't completely usurp that weapon's position as a useful tool despite doing something completely unrelated, simply because of its better damage.

[Kitoshi]

So pretty much Holy Ray's current latent ability (a chance to stun while Just Attacking), applied on a grander scale ?

Sounds like it's something this game could really benefit from.

[AgemFrostMage]

I've commented on most of that in the past, and you're entirely missing the point. I'll tackle it a bit out of order, because each part explains a portion of the next part.

First, PA's. Yes, those DID absorb some of the functions of different weapons. But every single weapon can use them. What made the varying abilities of weapons a fun feature wasn't the actual attack - it was the varying strengths. If you give every weapon the same selection of attacks, you remove the novelty of having weapons that function differently. There's no actual, real point to getting different weapons if they all perform the same. Thus, PA's are not the same as the different abilities of weapons in PSO1, they are instead an additional layer that does not have a parallel in PSO1. These special, unique, per-weapon abilities were part of the balancing points. A weapon with low ata might have a particularly potent paralyze special. Good for an upgrade over a non-rare weapon. This is your gateway into rares, and will outperform prior non-rare paralyze weapons. The next rare in line will have higher ata and atp, definitely, but will not have a paralyze special. If you want something that paralyzes you still go back to that older weapon. The older weapon still has a use even when you find a stronger weapon of the same type. Only after some time will it be completely outperformed - but nobody's asking for weapons that last forever, just ones that have an actual unique use that means they aren't strictly outperformed when you find a weapon with 1 more atp. No, I do not count 3% more damage from latents.

Second, planned obsolescence. This is a direct result of weapons not having unique abilities. Yes, a weapon in hard with a paralyze special will definitely be outperformed by a weapon in very hard with a paralyze special. That's good! Progression of loot is an important part of the game. But those are two entire difficulties apart - and from the start of hard to the start of very hard that weapon with paralyze special may still be your best paralyze weapon. Maybe you find a non-rare weapon with a high amount of ata and a paralyze special on the path to very hard. Well, you definitely have a weapon with higher atp by now, so you don't care about the atp on that first paralyze rare you found. So you can swap to the one with higher ata, which will hit more, and thus do its job better. That's great! But this higher ata weapon does not strictly outperform the initial paralyze rare, it just outperforms it in one aspect. And what's the result of this? You now have two separate weapons that are good at two different things, and are not merely PA's that you apply to your strongest weapon of a given class.

This is a layer of complexity and gameplay completely lacking in PSO2, and a large part of why many of us even played PSO1. This is not nostalgia. If we didn't like back then it we wouldn't have played it back then.


I think I finally know where you come from on this: instead of wand doing inferior damage to rod minus the wand gear instead wand should do less damage but have greater field as compensation (though... they had to make the increase field skill an active with a cool down -_- )

As to paralyze I have a fire element wand with freeze II (weird combo -_- ) and it sometimes freezes but am so engrossed in attacking it shatters instantly so I don't take time to reposition.

[gigawuts]

So pretty much Holy Ray's current latent ability (a chance to stun while Just Attacking), applied on a grander scale ?

Sounds like it's something this game could really benefit from.

Yes, exactly. I'd rather it was a bit more conditional, so it wasn't ALWAYS working, maybe only enemies that are knocked down or something. But definitely still there, and still unique, and still useful if you get a different weapon with more ratk.

But yeah. Holy Ray and Elder Pain are two of the only examples of what I mean. I'd also rather it was automatically unlocked without needing to grind (even if it was just level 1).

[ShinMaruku]

I'd rather them change grinding myself.

[The Walrus]

That'd be nice. Shame they'll never do it

[EvilMag]

I think it would be neat if the weapon could drop with the latent already unlocked. Even if it was a low chance, still would be nice.

[Enforcer MKV]

I think it would be neat if the weapon could drop with the latent already unlocked. Even if it was a low chance, still would be nice.

40% lvl 1 unlocked, 15% lvl 2, 5% level 3...so on and so forth. That'd be nice.

Me? Triple every enemies health (Okay, not all, but most), increase attack speed, attack frequency...bring back insta-death on Megid...

Mwahahahahahahaha~

[BlankM]

I see your point.

This is clearly a highly subjective matter, because I personally could not possibly care less about this. I'm more interested in seeing other aspects of the game buffed up first, but you are certainly right that the game's item variety would be considerably improved even with just built-in status effects and such.

Funny, because there are other games that do the whole "item variety" thing a lot, a LOT better than the PSO series ever has (Diablo II in particular comes to mind here, with Path of Exile close behind). If that's really one of the sole reasons you play the series, there are better games for you to play for that purpose.

What do item potentials have to do with whether or not photon arts are well done?

Wow... this opinion... wow. Just... wow.

Go play some Mass Effect 3 multiplayer, and then tell me that you don't care about difficulty. Or even some Dark Souls, for that matter.

Difficulty is HUGE in games like these. If you're constantly locked in an intense battle to preserve your own life, games like these are infinitely more fun and engaging. It's when you can casually, routinely destroy swathes of enemies without suffering any damage that things get boring, and that's the biggest problem the game faces right now for high-end players.

I can't take the opinion of someone who says "difficulty doesn't matter" very seriously at all.
Ugh, I don't even know how to respond to this without sounding condescending.

Let me just say that the game would be better served if every PA and every skill on the skill trees had equal reason to be chosen and used versus the current state of the game. There is no arguing against this, and the reductionist attitude displayed here only shows a lack of perspective.

You talk about subjectivity, but you ignore things that are very clearly subjective.

Difficulty will always be subjective. I'm personally not even a fan of Dark Souls or Mass Effect. And yes I played them both. My idea of difficulty isn't really standing in an enemies blindspot and exploiting AI patterns while you slowly whittle away at it. Dark Souls is not so much difficult as it is punishing.

You say photon arts replace item specials, but the whole point of item specials is they are special...to that item. Also I expect if a potential is supposed to buff a specific PA it should be done in a less lazy way then a few number buffs.

The reason I don't care for balance or difficulty is because its an MMO. They serve their place and make the game better, but I don't play MMO's for those purposes. I play action games for difficulty, and I play fighting games for competition. Ideally an MMO should have the best of both worlds, but I don't sit on the couch thinking "Man I really need a challenge, I gotta do an epic 12-man raid!" or "This class is sweet, but it sucks I'll always do less damage then this guy..." Because I don't really care that much. My priority coming into this game was becoming competent and having fun. I don't get irked just because every single move doesn't have a use, because I'm used to it in ANY game you try to make competitive.

I will admit a few hours of tinkering and nearly any one of us could balance the game better then SEGA. I just don't really care all that much either way. You have three photon art slots whats the difference if you alternate between two for DPS instead of one? Maybe if the game mapped them like a traditional action game each with their own combination I would care, but its not going to make a difference to me whether I swap out 3x AB or Sonic Arrow for 2x with some other flashy PA. I already do this anyways with my Partisan being AB/SE/Speed Rain, and my sword being Ride Slasher/OE/SA. I'm not going to be pulling off fancy DMC or weapon switch combos just because they buffed rising edge or twin daggers or some crap. (Which by the way, why sega (http://http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hk5dry4Oo68)we could do if weapon switching didn't have latency) So its not going to effect my overall enjoyment of the game too much. I'd rather focus on things they can feasibly change that don't involve making the game into something it isn't.

And I could play Diablo, but I've never tried it. PSO attracted me with its charm and kept me with its depth. I know there are probably other MMO alternatives with depth, but PSO had depth AND was really accessible. It didn't feel like an MMO to me and thats what made me love it.

Edit: On the subject of weapons I'd like to see them let you unlock multiple potentials for weapons. And yes, have a chance for weapons to come with a potential unlocked...

[AgemFrostMage]

"I will admit a few hours of tinkering and nearly any one of us could balance the game better then SEGA."

Took me only 20 minutes to rebalance trees =) (insert shameless self-promotion thread here) The PP reduction for lightning will be nerfed though to compensate for the reduced casting time to maintain balance and made the hunter tree more reasonable, replacing some skills no one uses with useful ones. Though I might replace partisan gear advanced, buff partisan gear to it, and put gunslash gear there instead since it's a fun weapon that needs a gear.

I haven't worked on ranger or gunner since I have no experience with them, and techer will see minimal change if I post a new copy cut and paste tree.

"You have three photon art slots whats the difference if you alternate between two for DPS instead of one?"

Slave rave and addition bullet make an excellent combination and is really fun. Sword though isn't fun and ride slash seems... impractical and situational mostly. Best of all the big cats drop them and hunter with some +HP and +S-DEF talents and high base S-DEF anyway, in addition to having a short dodge to get positioned faster than a force (when dodge ends for force it's too late the monster turned =( ) is ideal to grab them. Also sabarta but who cares about a skill only used on little volcano monsters or Vol Dragon's horn after the tail breaks.

The pseudonym is ironic since no ice points (until I buy the second force tree), but only for this game =)

I just remembered what I came here to say:

Does PSO2 feel like a job? Good, MMOs should. But... a job you enjoy. At a job you learn practical skills that others depend on you for and contribute something. In MMOs, your job is to kill the enemy, but how you do that and the optimal way is part of the job. Different levels require different tools, which can be weapons or switching to another talent tree to maximize effectiveness.

[Zyrusticae]

You talk about subjectivity, but you ignore things that are very clearly subjective.[spoiler-box]

Difficulty will always be subjective. I'm personally not even a fan of Dark Souls or Mass Effect. And yes I played them both. My idea of difficulty isn't really standing in an enemies blindspot and exploiting AI patterns while you slowly whittle away at it. Dark Souls is not so much difficult as it is punishing.

You say photon arts replace item specials, but the whole point of item specials is they are special...to that item. Also I expect if a potential is supposed to buff a specific PA it should be done in a less lazy way then a few number buffs.

The reason I don't care for balance or difficulty is because its an MMO. They serve their place and make the game better, but I don't play MMO's for those purposes. I play action games for difficulty, and I play fighting games for competition. Ideally an MMO should have the best of both worlds, but I don't sit on the couch thinking "Man I really need a challenge, I gotta do an epic 12-man raid!" or "This class is sweet, but it sucks I'll always do less damage then this guy..." Because I don't really care that much. My priority coming into this game was becoming competent and having fun. I don't get irked just because every single move doesn't have a use, because I'm used to it in ANY game you try to make competitive.

I will admit a few hours of tinkering and nearly any one of us could balance the game better then SEGA. I just don't really care all that much either way. You have three photon art slots whats the difference if you alternate between two for DPS instead of one? Maybe if the game mapped them like a traditional action game each with their own combination I would care, but its not going to make a difference to me whether I swap out 3x AB or Sonic Arrow for 2x with some other flashy PA. I already do this anyways with my Partisan being AB/SE/Speed Rain, and my sword being Ride Slasher/OE/SA. I'm not going to be pulling off fancy DMC or weapon switch combos just because they buffed rising edge or twin daggers or some crap. (Which by the way, why sega (http://http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hk5dry4Oo68)we could do if weapon switching didn't have latency) So its not going to effect my overall enjoyment of the game too much. I'd rather focus on things they can feasibly change that don't involve making the game into something it isn't.

And I could play Diablo, but I've never tried it. PSO attracted me with its charm and kept me with its depth. I know there are probably other MMO alternatives with depth, but PSO had depth AND was really accessible. It didn't feel like an MMO to me and thats what made me love it.

Edit: On the subject of weapons I'd like to see them let you unlock multiple potentials for weapons. And yes, have a chance for weapons to come with a potential unlocked...[/spoiler-box]Hoooold on a second. You're starting from an extremely flawed premise here.

PSO2 is NOT an MMORPG. It is a co-op online action RPG with a lobby system. MMORPGs all have something in common that PSO2 completely omits - a large, shared open-world where all the players interact and fight together, or against each other. It's largely because of this open-world that MMORPGs have suffered the many limitations they have since the Everquest era (including dice-roll heavy combat reminiscent of old tabletop RPGs).

Furthermore, even in the lobbies the most players you can have in one location is 100 (plus whatever the extra room for premium players accounts for - 50 slots, maybe). A busy MMO will frequently exceed this - Planetside 2, in particular, can have up to two thousand players on the same map fighting against each other in three-way battles. By no means could PSO2 be considered even partly "massive" by any reasonable standard.

And even more, the way PSO2 plays itself is not even remotely reminiscent of any MMORPG currently existing or even in development, for that matter (seriously, I keep close tabs on this stuff). It is an action RPG through and through, and should really be balanced and play like one. For this reason I think it would benefit tremendously from a higher level of engagement than your typical MMORPG, not the least of which is because it directly benefits from higher levels of skill due to the way the combat works, as opposed to the hotkey-heavy nature of actual MMORPGs where many things are abstracted out of necessity.

At any rate, you say you seek something completely different from PSO2. Fine, whatever. I think your idea of what PSO2 is and should be to be completely ludicrous, but you are entitled to your opinion.

Btw I sincerely doubt you have played ME3 multiplayer from what you're saying here, because it plays nothing like what you are saying it does. It's still some of the best co-op action-RPG gameplay you can get anywhere, which is pretty goddamn impressive considering the single-player is supposed to be the biggest draw of the series.

[BlankM]

Hoooold on a second. You're starting from an extremely flawed premise here.

PSO2 is NOT an MMORPG. It is a co-op online action RPG with a lobby system. MMORPGs all have something in common that PSO2 completely omits - a large, shared open-world where all the players interact and fight together, or against each other. It's largely because of this open-world that MMORPGs have suffered the many limitations they have since the Everquest era (including dice-roll heavy combat reminiscent of old tabletop RPGs).

Furthermore, even in the lobbies the most players you can have in one location is 100 (plus whatever the extra room for premium players accounts for - 50 slots, maybe). A busy MMO will frequently exceed this - Planetside 2, in particular, can have up to two thousand players on the same map fighting against each other in three-way battles. By no means could PSO2 be considered even partly "massive" by any reasonable standard.

And even more, the way PSO2 plays itself is not even remotely reminiscent of any MMORPG currently existing or even in development, for that matter (seriously, I keep close tabs on this stuff). It is an action RPG through and through, and should really be balanced and play like one. For this reason I think it would benefit tremendously from a higher level of engagement than your typical MMORPG, not the least of which is because it directly benefits from higher levels of skill due to the way the combat works, as opposed to the hotkey-heavy nature of actual MMORPGs where many things are abstracted out of necessity.

At any rate, you say you seek something completely different from PSO2. Fine, whatever. I think your idea of what PSO2 is and should be to be completely ludicrous, but you are entitled to your opinion.

Btw I sincerely doubt you have played ME3 multiplayer from what you're saying here, because it plays nothing like what you are saying it does. It's still some of the best co-op action-RPG gameplay you can get anywhere, which is pretty goddamn impressive considering the single-player is supposed to be the biggest draw of the series.

Regardless of whether or not the infrastructure is like other MMOs, it now has too many similarities gameplay-wise. You yourself compare it to other MMOs and tell me I'm looking at the wrong game.

The original PSO was a dungeon crawler, and arguably far from a traditional MMO, I still would not care to prioritize difficulty in that game either. In fact it got pretty cheesy at times.

My idea of what PSO2 should be is it simply should live up to its predecessor... Thats all really. I think PSO2 is something different and more shallow as a result. Limitations force innovation, and in this case without the limitations SEGA has no need to innovate.

But if you find it ludicrous that they shouldn't focus on things that made the series fun in the first place, and instead should roll with this new direction of mildly successful online action game then our opinion will probably not meet eye to eye. I can't really disagree with you, but I don't think the action in this game will ever live up to my high standards. The collecting, atmosphere, fun-adventure-quest-time part can though. So thats what I ask for.

[Ranmaru]

My main class is still level 31, and initially I was taking it slow, but then had to take a break (for school). So that's what will keep me going. I still have subclasses and just using other characters to fulfill my desires. And friends/guild. :D

Also, just the PSO atmosphere. I can't get that with a game like Monster Hunter. I played it, and I was like... no. nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

Hehe. <3 PSO. Can't ever escape.

[Chik'Tikka]

meh, too much content (clothes) too fast to properly keep up. I would also much rather they build the classes taller, integrating new weapons, abilities, skills into the classes that are already there rather then this wide class setup that's tricking players into replaying the same content all over again while SEGAC sits on their laurels +^_^+

[ScarletV]

meh, too much content (clothes) too fast to properly keep up. I would also much rather they build the classes taller, integrating new weapons, abilities, skills into the classes that are already there rather then this wide class setup that's tricking players into replaying the same content all over again while SEGAC sits on their laurels +^_^+

I agree, but I believe that I'm so used to PSU's class structure that it makes me feel that I should be expecting more from classes. I also feel that if I can't have a broader weapon selection, that the current weapons need to feel like they have more depth.

[AgemFrostMage]

meh, too much content (clothes) too fast to properly keep up. I would also much rather they build the classes taller, integrating new weapons, abilities, skills into the classes that are already there rather then this wide class setup that's tricking players into replaying the same content all over again while SEGAC sits on their laurels +^_^+

But the wide class thing is a major reason why I like the game. You aren't locked into being a force, hunter, etc., but can change and use subclasses for added stats and abilities. Force alone can't get a dark bonus boost, but force can with techer. New abilities like Nabarta that is like Samegid but ice, faster, narrower path (so all three can hit a smaller enemy frequently), and less damage (but not too much less) for balance is needed. As it is, pretty much all light techs are slow, no ice techs have range, and fire and lightning are good with no real problems other than lightning being very dodgeable.

The problem with a tall class setup is they usually put all the important stuff down too deep, so you can't get the best of both worlds like fire S-charge and lightning PP save for a hybrid build so would be even less choice.

[ScarletV]

But the wide class thing is a major reason why I like the game. You aren't locked into being a force, hunter, etc., but can change and use subclasses for added stats and abilities. Force alone can't get a dark bonus boost, but force can with techer. New abilities like Nabarta that is like Samegid but ice, faster, narrower path (so all three can hit a smaller enemy frequently), and less damage (but not too much less) for balance is needed. As it is, pretty much all light techs are slow, no ice techs have range, and fire and lightning are good with no real problems other than lightning being very dodgeable.

The problem with a tall class setup is they usually put all the important stuff down too deep, so you can't get the best of both worlds like fire S-charge and lightning PP save for a hybrid build so would be even less choice.

That truly depends on how the class tree is set up, to be honest. Force didn't HAVE to only feature three elements in its tree, it could have been deeper without forcing us to start a new class.

I understand what you mean, but why did we even need to do this in the first place? You can have the same flexibility with a better structure for the class trees and eliminate the forced replay. But, it is what it is and I accept it for what it is.

[Zenobia]

That truly depends on how the class tree is set up, to be honest. Force didn't HAVE to only feature three elements in its tree, it could have been deeper without forcing us to start a new class.

I understand what you mean, but why did we even need to do this in the first place? You can have the same flexibility with a better structure for the class trees and eliminate the forced replay. But, it is what it is and I accept it for what it is.

Yeah it does depend on how the skill tree is setup but what frost said holds true. Lets say FO didn't only have 3 elements and TE didn't exist so Sega could have added anyone one or 2 elements to the trees. Now go look at techer then take a nie gander back FO you know where all the good skills are now lets say they threw in dark and light in the mix. Now when you really think about and how sega likes to throw the good stuff and have it buried deep at the bottom of the skill tree how would you feel? You would be throwing more points around and further gimping yourself to be efficient in one element or sacrificing your points to be well rounded in all quite sad really.

But lets be srs the way FO/TE works is that in order to be best in each element it requires you buy multiple skill trees there is no arguing that point at all. Its not bad structure..its bad game design overall.

[gigawuts]

The subclass system exists to give players the illusion of customizability. In truth, it's a much lazier approach to balance, and offers very similar options to what was in PSU and PSO1 without the need for balancing each combination. And before you try to say you don't need to grind each class like before - yes, you still need to grind each class like before.

As long as each individual class is "balanced," or more specifically not insanely and overbearingly superior, then they're going to pretend each combination is balanced. Which they are not.

[Aslinng]

And even more, the way PSO2 plays itself is not even remotely reminiscent of any MMORPG currently existing or even in development, for that matter (seriously, I keep close tabs on this stuff).
Unfortunately I saw some games at E3 with PSO 2 gameplay, I felt sad.
If PSO 2 still wants to go out in America, I advise them to not wait for the E3 games to be released.
Otherwise the PSO 2 gameplay won't seem "fresh" after that. (Sorry for my bad English)


The subclass system exists to give players the illusion of customizability. In truth, it's a much lazier approach to balance, and offers very similar options to what was in PSU and PSO1 without the need for balancing each combination. And before you try to say you don't need to grind each class like before - yes, you still need to grind each class like before.
But it's still rare to be able to change class on mmorpg, usually you're doom to reroll from the beginning of the game by doing the same quests again or worse they aren't any subclass. Also be able to combine class is an awesome feature.

So I am pretty happy with this system. Remind me of some tactical rpg that are so rare on now (final fantasy tactic fan)

[gigawuts]

Since this is frequently overlooked, I think I should clarify this bit: You could change classes in PSO1. How? Each character was a different class. You had four character slots per memory card. Ergo, you could change classes.

In this way, you can change classes in all games that give you multiple character slots. You still need to level up each class individually on PSO2 - just like you need to level up characters individually in other games.

The only game that blocks class changing is the game that limits you to one account, with one character, with one class. Any game that allows you to have multiple accounts, or multiple characters if characters are different classes, lets you change classes.

[Cyron Tanryoku]

I'm satisfied. I like repetitive gameplay because it's a nice time waster
I never got the PSO1 enjoyment tho

Game kinda sucked imo

[LaMBtRon]

The problem isn't that game, it's the playerbase. The players that rush to "endgame" content, rather than simply enjoying the game on a casual basis are the ones that are discontent with pso2. Ep2 is not going to save the players from themselves.

[Alisha]

after this past weekend of FF XIV ARR beta pso 2 just feels so shallow in comparison. :/

[BlankM]

The problem isn't that game, it's the playerbase. The players that rush to "endgame" content, rather than simply enjoying the game on a casual basis are the ones that are discontent with pso2. Ep2 is not going to save the players from themselves.

This mentality does nothing for the game.

"The hardcore players play the most therefore they are ruining the game for themselves! Therefore the game should not cater to them."

The hardcore players honestly are the ones who are more likely to spend money, why should SEGA NOT have something for them? There are many instances where SEGA could capitalize on this but just don't. They just don't want my money.

[Zyrusticae]

after this past weekend of FF XIV ARR beta pso 2 just feels so shallow in comparison. :/
Wat.

FFXIV has nothing above PSO2 aside from the graphics. You're just at the point where the game is shiny-new to you and you're not seeing the flaws (kind of like how PSO2 was the first time for a lot of folks).

This mentality does nothing for the game.

"The hardcore players play the most therefore they are ruining the game for themselves! Therefore the game should not cater to them."

The hardcore players honestly are the ones who are more likely to spend money, why should SEGA NOT have something for them? There are many instances where SEGA could capitalize on this but just don't. They just don't want my money.Can we please stop doing this? You have absolutely no evidence that the "hardcore players" are the ones spending the most money.

The only thing you know is that a few extremely wealthy players are spending hundreds of thousands of yen on the game and that's all you know. You don't know anything at all about their playing habits, whether they're casual or regular or hardcore or what-have-you.

I mean it's pretty damn transparent that you're just making an inference here that supports your cause with no regard for actual fact. We all do that from time to time, but it really has to stop.

[Z-0]

The problem isn't that game, it's the playerbase. The players that rush to "endgame" content, rather than simply enjoying the game on a casual basis are the ones that are discontent with pso2. Ep2 is not going to save the players from themselves.
And that is the problem with PSO2.

Why isn't there something at endgame? Why is it a problem if someone plays the game a lot, and gets punished for knowing how to level quickly, etc? What if playing the game quickly is how I enjoy playing the game?

It's not "our" fault at all. PSO1 worked for all kinds of players, because there were 200 levels, lots of items to hunt instead of just 1 or 2 and everything was set, giving the game a lot of variety, and if you wanted to, learn how to improve yourself by learning spawn patterns and how to use your different weapons on them.

PSO2 is just shallow.

[gigawuts]

I think PSO2 would be infinitely more fun if new items weren't way stronger, but instead different.

If they used something similar TF2's model, where new weapons weren't purely superior but instead sidegrades (with damage as a balancing point! new stuff SHOULD have a bit more damage, but that shouldn't be the focal point), and then the old gear was still good but maybe not as widely useful, plus outranked by newer stuff some time later as you progressed, I think PSO2 would be absolutely unbeatable in that department.

Making the focus on collecting, instead of investing, would really make PSO2's loot pretty fun for me. Of course, there SHOULD be mega rare items, and they should be insanely strong, but still situational. Just very good at what they do, and very pretty/flashy/whatnot.

[Alisha]

Wat.

FFXIV has nothing above PSO2 aside from the graphics. You're just at the point where the game is shiny-new to you and you're not seeing the flaws (kind of like how PSO2 was the first time for a lot of folks).
Can we please stop doing this? You have absolutely no evidence that the "hardcore players" are the ones spending the most money.

The only thing you know is that a few extremely wealthy players are spending hundreds of thousands of yen on the game and that's all you know. You don't know anything at all about their playing habits, whether they're casual or regular or hardcore or what-have-you.

I mean it's pretty damn transparent that you're just making an inference here that supports your cause with no regard for actual fact. We all do that from time to time, but it really has to stop.

i would dissagree because part of pso 2's shallowness comes from the fact that its f2p.

[Jungo Torii]

Eh. I'm lukewarm. Episode 2 will get me back into the game on a new character, but on my 60HU/60FI character I find it hard to find the motivation to do anything since I don't want to waste my time looking for items that I have an extremely miniscule chance of ever getting.

[Rayokarna]

after this past weekend of FF XIV ARR beta pso 2 just feels so shallow in comparison. :/

Totally agree.


Wat.

FFXIV has nothing above PSO2 aside from the graphics. You're just at the point where the game is shiny-new to you and you're not seeing the flaws (kind of like how PSO2 was the first time for a lot of folks).


This game does have flaws, no denying that, however the game has a lot more to it than PSO2. Even in Beta it feels more polished, more expansive and filled with a lot more content. Even by a game by game comparason PSO2 has nothing on XIV ARR, it doesn't have a leg to stand on either especially since PSO2 is a year old now. (Except maybe the battle system but that's personal opinion).

[Zyrusticae]

This game does have flaws, no denying that, however the game has a lot more to it than PSO2. Even in Beta it feels more polished, more expansive and filled with a lot more content. Even by a game by game comparason PSO2 has nothing on XIV ARR, it doesn't have a leg to stand on either especially since PSO2 is a year old now. (Except maybe the battle system but that's personal opinion).
Yeah, there is absolutely no way I can agree with that. Besides the fact that you're crossing genres and making a ridiculous comparison, FFXIV's content is of the type that you're finished with as soon as you go through a single playthrough. Once you're finished with that you'll reach the same state you quickly reach in PSO2, i.e. "there's nothing left to do".

By the way FFXIV is technically a little past two-and-a-half years old at this point. If you're going to go by that line of argument FFXIV has had a considerable head start.

[Sesheenku]

I haven't logged in for a while but, I really miss when JP PSO2 was just starting to fill up with other countries because at that point everyone was just trying to level.

I remember how almost every map was full of people chatting and grinding away, it was enjoyable to grind with a good group that knew what it was doing and how to get the most XP out of their grinding.

When I last played however I would log in and it was impossible to find parties, I'd be lucky to find a single person in the usual grinding maps, except for forest of course which offered crap XP for my level at the time anyways...

I don't know something's going on, either they're not increasing the level cap fast enough and people are getting bored and quitting or the people that insist on soloing everything are outweighing the cooperative grinding parties.

Grinding is horridly slow and dull work without a big group that works together. The game is perfect when there are players like that.

I hope they start implementing ways to get XP that give a ton of XP and are absolutely impossible to solo, due, or even trio so that we can have big groups working together for grinding again.

I mean really now... EQ's and regular quests used to have a comparable amount of people running around helping each other but now even some EQ's can be empty.

This is of course last time I've played, if they haven't fixed this somehow I hope they do soon.

[Aslinng]

I think that you're just unlucky to log when there're not people around.
I am level 40+ and I often met lot of people during EQ but it really depend of the time when I play.

[Zipzo]

Yeah, there is absolutely no way I can agree with that. Besides the fact that you're crossing genres and making a ridiculous comparison, FFXIV's content is of the type that you're finished with as soon as you go through a single playthrough. Once you're finished with that you'll reach the same state you quickly reach in PSO2, i.e. "there's nothing left to do".

By the way FFXIV is technically a little past two-and-a-half years old at this point. If you're going to go by that line of argument FFXIV has had a considerable head start.

Going to have to agree with Zyru here...

I played the FFXIV beta extensively, and I see absolutely zero reason that anyone could see how this game has potential, even categorically across the map in all factors that make up a MMO.

In an effort to ensure the game at least markets minimally well they dumbed it down to tab-target point and click (which most avid players of PSO2 are playing PSO2 to avoid), and a lame everquest style questing system that we've all been tired of since...MMO's became a thing. I'm not saying client orders are like the cream of the crop, but what XIV is doing isn't anything new or daring, we can be sure of that. An MMORPG that wants to take the market by storm unfortunately needs to attempt to reinvent the wheel a little bit at this point, but they need to do right in a way that catches on. Those of us who prefer a faster paced combat aren't really turning our heads anyway. It's going to follow the same route that every single other MMO who boils their game down to this basic marketable formula...it's going to see a surge of players trying it out in the first month, and it will die a naked, cold, slow death in to F2P (if it doesn't release as F2P), and then it will thrive with a niche community who pays out the ying yang while simultaneously dwindling off in google searches.

The graphics are meh, they look the same as they did years ago when the game first released as the mess it was (I spent a pretty sum on the CE). Characters don't actively react to mouse turning, they just awkwardly pivot without moving a muscle in their body (why do MMORPG's always neglect this? It looks ugly). Personal annoyance aside, you can already go play ARR by playing the hundreds of other typical MMO's FFXIV is built to mimic available to download now. People who are tired of this formula will grow weary of ARR the fastest once the shiny/pretty has worn off. Which I'm thinking is you (Rayokarna).

PSO2 is thriving (despite popular PSO-W opinion), it's a very active game and you have activities at your fingertips (no matter how hopeless some of the rewards seem). I am lately having a ton of fun with the game and I've actually had an easier time convincing friends to get started because of more content available than when it launched.

I hate to say it but I side with Zyru in being absolutely confused how ARR has you so jarred and excited.

[Cyron Tanryoku]

And that is the problem with PSO2.

Why isn't there something at endgame?
Advance Quest
Extreme Quests
Time Attacks
Limited Quests
Dark Falz
Abduction

I'd at least consider these endgame content
I think some people's problems are just the repetitive nature.
Because despite being endgame content..it's still the same stuff.

[Aslinng]

That's the cycle of life of any mmorpg : leveling > reach max level > go farm good equipements.
Nothing new about this and it's pretty hard to break that cycle.

For example : Fantasy life (http://www.fantasylife.jp/) is a single based game on 3DS.
It's an animal crossing (like game) + rpg features.
But even so it seems will also become reptitive at some point.
Though, I really want to play it >.>

[Jungo Torii]

Basically. It doesn't feel like there's enough difference between any of those options to really keep a lot of people engaged.

...They should just make a bunch of quests like abduction and not make it a dice roll to actually do them. More of a personal opinion there.

[gigawuts]

I don't think it's the repetitive nature - I think it's the lack of spaced goals and repetitive gameplay.

Gameplay in PSO2 doesn't actually change when you find new gear. There's nothing to change except maybe having more PP, or killing things faster/dying slower. That's really it. New loot doesn't augment you with different abilities.

While leveling towards the cap does give you some bonuses for playing - that is, leveling up & gaining SP - continuing to play is merely a stat buff. There's no more augmentations to your play. You can't change your tree without paying (or consuming an allclass reset ticket).

The endgame is where the metagame is best played, but most restricted.

[Z-0]

I'd at least consider these endgame content
I think some people's problems are just the repetitive nature.
Because despite being endgame content..it's still the same stuff.
Yes, this is the problem, in my opinion. Extreme Quests were a step in the right direction, except they are much too short (and easy) for once-a-day activities. If Extreme Quests were more survival-type missions (get through as many floors as you can in 30 minutes; failing a stage order drops the timer down by a minute or more), once-a-day would be perfectly fine.

Abduction and Dark Falz are pretty much the same thing. Step in the right direction, but limited / locked behind RNG. ><

The event quest isn't really anything special, in my opinion, what with level 50 enemies and aesthetics being the only drop from the event boss.

Time Attack would be a good idea for "endgame content" as well, if there was actually a reason to do them fast outside of Interrupt Rankings, which don't give great rewards (300 FUN and a room deco for placing first). Considering you can be pretty sour at them and still get A-Rank for the TACOs, there doesn't seem to be much point to calling them "Time Attack Quests".

[BlankM]

Wat.

FFXIV has nothing above PSO2 aside from the graphics. You're just at the point where the game is shiny-new to you and you're not seeing the flaws (kind of like how PSO2 was the first time for a lot of folks).
Can we please stop doing this? You have absolutely no evidence that the "hardcore players" are the ones spending the most money.

The only thing you know is that a few extremely wealthy players are spending hundreds of thousands of yen on the game and that's all you know. You don't know anything at all about their playing habits, whether they're casual or regular or hardcore or what-have-you.

I mean it's pretty damn transparent that you're just making an inference here that supports your cause with no regard for actual fact. We all do that from time to time, but it really has to stop.

I didn't say "most" I said more likely. Who is more likely to keep paying money? Someone who plays the game a bit, gets what they want then quits because its too frustrating? Or someone who is constantly trying to keep up with everything coming out and playing the game with premium running the whole time.

I don't care about what anyone says about what demographic this game is made for. I don't even consider myself a hardcore player.

I'm just saying SEGA could make money from that type of player rather then continuing to make the game frustrating for them. In many ways this game is like real life, and I don't play a game to do a job and invest my earned monies into what SEGA will do next. The hard-core player doesn't just have nothing to do, they get the biggest shaft when it comes to effort-reward ratio. This game doesn't just cater to casuals, it hurts its players while keeping them on a leash. Its a very BE HAPPY WITH WHAT YOU GOT and not a lot of "we're listening and trying our best." If they really were listening why do we hear such vague information about stuff before it comes? That doesn't give them much time to listen to feedback... By the time we hear about something new gameplay-wise its already done and most of them have fixed none of the game's problems.

Whether you're casual or hardcore, the game could be better for both parties rather then just having a distinct split. Currency is just one barrier, and it doesn't even matter how much currency you save up. Currency is very expendable. It runs dry from Dudu or scratches or whatever. If you don't have INCOME you can't keep up. Its not enough to save up all your mesetas for that weapon you want, because by the time you do something else will have your eye. If you're a casual player you're most likely being whittled away by costumes etc. too.

Besides you're mostly only paying for aesthetics because new weapons are barely ever better without significantly more investment. Probably 3-4x the investment meseta-wise. Enough to drain wallets.

Look if you didn't keep accusing me of being bias and "lacking perspective" then I would've stopped complaining pages ago. But I honestly don't think you want to see things from the opposing standpoint. Any little negative thing aside from the difficulty and balance issues you continue to brush off.

PSO2 lacks variety in items AND quests. The quests we have are random or grindfests. Or once-a-day therefore becoming a daily chore(Or short in XQ's case). The things that make the game less frustrating are gacha'd away then sold for profit. Because you have a limit to how much meseta you can introduce into the game theres a huge income split along with inflation of items people can't just pay 2 bucks for.(Hint: not costumes or accessories) And to make matters worst SEGA can barely understand the mechanics of their own game as they continuously release crappy potentials, weapons that can't feasibly have their attribute grinded, and make nonsensical balance decisions. Hell did they check the player market before making room decorations cost 10k FUN? It just seems like the developers are so unconnected with the playerbase, or they're sitting on an ingenious plan while releasing just enough to keep us hooked.

Either way I think people have the right to complain. No one is being volatile about it. I merely am saying what comes to mind when I say "Hardcore players are more likely to pay." Maybe I am wrong. Casual players outnumber the hardcore players. The week to week scratches make more money then any other gameplay benefits, and the hardcore players probably just quit the game.

It still sucks and SEGA doesn't want my money.

[MetalDude]

It's a bit depressing to see that most of the endgame content has such poor access issues. Beyond that, only two of those have no random elements (XQs do to an extent, but usually to your benefit). What gets to me most is the sheer absence of stable questing. Even if you wanted to deal with horrible rates, there's no selection of choice quests where you could hunt those target enemies down.

[BlankM]

Super hard mode should hopefully fix the whole "Nothing drops from 90% of the quests" problem. Or they'll just release even MORE hopelessly hard to find items that can only be found in Super hard AQs...

[gigawuts]

Yeah, it will only get harder.

Or they'll do what I'd like.

Either/or.

(I'm not holding my breath)

[ScarletV]

The subclass system exists to give players the illusion of customizability. In truth, it's a much lazier approach to balance, and offers very similar options to what was in PSU and PSO1 without the need for balancing each combination. And before you try to say you don't need to grind each class like before - yes, you still need to grind each class like before.

As long as each individual class is "balanced," or more specifically not insanely and overbearingly superior, then they're going to pretend each combination is balanced. Which they are not.


This, I'm glad someone understands what I mean.

If you take the game for what it is, what you guys are explaining to me makes perfect sense. HOWEVER, that should not be the case the way they are structured. If they were structured differently, you wouldn't have such a rigid choice of combinations.

And as I've stated before, I understand that this won't change any time soon and I accept it.

[MoonlightMyau]

I restarted and moved ship a couple of times, it also took me a while to get a computer that plays it decently enough to enjoy the game. So I'm just finding my feet with it really, despite being there on & off since the beta tests.

So far I am satisfied, I feel like it's brought the best elements from the previous online PS games, with very few of the bad.

I'm enjoying the game play overall & the community on my ship (Ship 3) are generally quite friendly.

My only issue with the game thus far & has always been an issue for me, is that there is no "character" level. But then nobody is forcing me to change class or even subclass so I can deal with it.

I'm not bored yet, but I am very excited for Ep2 and everything I've seen of it so far. Especially the mini rooms & return of Partner Machines (I can get my Peanut back!).

I think at this point, the game can only get better, then again I'm easy pleased.

[Zyrusticae]

Cripes, I'm sorry, I can't say anything nice to that wall of text (that you managed to somehow shit out in response to a couple sentences and did so despite the fact that I am very readily apparently not interested in reading it all).

There has got to be something better for you to do, because at this point I'm not wasting anymore time on this shit.

[BlankM]

I'm glad we're on the same page then.

Anywho, does anyone think we'll be getting an advanced class to go with Braver for when it hits 30? I'm doubting it at this point, it will probably be delayed.

[The Walrus]

It'll probably come later in the year.

[gigawuts]

Yeah, I'm sure an advanced variant is coming. But the question is...how?

Maybe it'll be more defense-oriented, on the flip side of braver's seeming pure offense, getting the proper sword and shield?

I'd quite like it if it got slicer...

Braver seems like a samurai or warrior approach, maybe the advance class will be a lighter, ninja-ish approach?

I'd say it might be striking/tech, but then you're left with range/tech as unaccounted for in an even means. Maybe braver will unlock both at once?

[Alisha]

the problem with pso 2 isnt that theres nothing to do,its that it takes too long to get from point A to point B. meanwhile ffxiv is like what pso 2 could be like if koffe had worthwhile quests to do all the way up to lvl 60. pso 2 has a keep em playing mentality wich is why it is riddled with cock blocking tactics.

http://i.imgur.com/yzf9NF6.gif

[ShinMaruku]

after this past weekend of FF XIV ARR beta pso 2 just feels so shallow in comparison. :/

What a back handed complement to ff14. XD

[Saffran]

Advance class for Braver would make sense, but if they didn't announce it at this point, you can forget it. People will be at lv30 Braver in no time. I have a team mate specifically saving all the daily COs to redeem 99x to level up Braver. If he gives them back in the right order, I'm sure he can reach 25 from that alone. I'll check it out on the wiki later...

[LordShade]

my only problem with FFXIV is how monotonous combat is at the start of the game, and how each quest is literally generic mmo formula, move from hub to hub, grab all quests, do them, come back, move to next hub, play a fate or two if you come across it, its like they combined the shit quest system of Tera with the okay event system of GW2.

I'll still play it, I want my monk and I have alot of friends that are gonna play >:

[AgemFrostMage]

Advance class for Braver would make sense, but if they didn't announce it at this point, you can forget it. People will be at lv30 Braver in no time. I have a team mate specifically saving all the daily COs to redeem 99x to level up Braver. If he gives them back in the right order, I'm sure he can reach 25 from that alone. I'll check it out on the wiki later...

To maximize benefit shouldn't he at least level to 20 or 25 first then pass in the quests to minimize penalty?

[AgemFrostMage]

the problem with pso 2 isnt that theres nothing to do,its that it takes too long to get from point A to point B. meanwhile ffxiv is like what pso 2 could be like if koffe had worthwhile quests to do all the way up to lvl 60. pso 2 has a keep em playing mentality wich is why it is riddled with cock blocking tactics.

http://i.imgur.com/yzf9NF6.gif

You think it takes long? Try World of Warcraft or Guild Wars 2, stuff can be on the opposite end of the map. But those games are mostly built for PK, you quest to gain levels and equipment, then PK at the end until people no longer hate you for being undergeared, then the cycle continues. Even PK fields (at least you are instantly teleported there) get boring after the millionth time, even the good ones like Isle of Conquest.

I wanted to do high end PK, had the gear and everything, but no one on my server wanted to join my arena team -_- Was a small server and my guild was small but they specialized in questing.

[Alisha]

i'm not talking about travel time.

[Vandread]

To maximize benefit shouldn't he at least level to 20 or 25 first then pass in the quests to minimize penalty?
Depends on the quest. If it targets lvl46 mobs, you'd have to be lvl46 (or around there) to minimize penalty. Stuff like the 99x Quartz Dragon items (lvl46 Quartz Dragon) get nerfed to shit, you'd probably be better off feeding a round of Hard TA's instead on low-level.

So even if feeding that on lvl20, you get 20/46 ~43.5% of it's actual XP worth. At least it works that way for COs on Hans and the like.

[Rien]

Advance class for Braver would make sense, but if they didn't announce it at this point, you can forget it. People will be at lv30 Braver in no time. I have a team mate specifically saving all the daily COs to redeem 99x to level up Braver. If he gives them back in the right order, I'm sure he can reach 25 from that alone. I'll check it out on the wiki later...

You can jump 1-20 by normal mode Time Attacks alone

Throw in those COs after for maximum effect

[Kilich]

I still wonder why did they put pvp heavy games like FEZ and C9 into the survey. At least first two surveys, I'm not sure about the recent one.

[Vandread]

On another note, I kind of find it funny how there's complaints that there is no end-game, yet at the same time there's attempts to get the new class to end-game as quickly as possible. Why would you want to rush to... well, nothing? I dunno, just strikes me as odd.

Personally just going to take my time leveling Braver. There's still like 3 months till the cap gets raised to 65 anyway. Personally, the only levels I wish I could skip (or at least make less cumbersome) would be 48-51 or so. I'm expecting Vopar VH to be 55 mobs anyway. AQs more or less unlock for full XP gain on 52 if you cycle through A/B/C's. Before that they're not worth it in my case, since I only party with a friend (sometimes two, rarely three).

I actually do think EP2 is exactly that which was to be expected. New planet, new class, some new PAs and techs, new matterboards for the story and some new systems (ARKS Road, Support Partner, etc). Anyone expecting more, I believe simply had too high expectations and should consider looking at things from the other side of the coin - from the developer side. Merely thinking about the time necessary to create and implement certain things. Then again maybe it's easier for me to imagine that since I've dabbled in... let's say a grey area of things when it comes to online games.



@Kilich:
C9 (Continent of the Ninth Seal) plays similar to PSO2, just has different control system (utilizes keycombos and hotbar to perform special attacks). It's still in the same genre of room-based multiplayer actionRPG, and that's why they've asked about that one specifically I guess.

C9 nowadays is only a sliver of what it used to be in terms of difficulty PvE-wise as well, a lot of things were made easier. Played it a bit on KR servers before the stage-loot revamp (which was done somewhere after continent 4 release I think). After that it was made easier and easier and easier, most notably when comparing the global version (Webzen) to my KR experience. I don't know how the Japanese version of C9 is/was like though.

[Ezodagrom]

I actually do think EP2 is exactly that which was to be expected. New planet, new class, some new PAs and techs, new matterboards for the story and some new systems (ARKS Road, Support Partner, etc). Anyone expecting more, I believe simply had too high expectations and should consider looking at things from the other side of the coin - from the developer side. Merely thinking about the time necessary to create and implement certain things. Then again maybe it's easier for me to imagine that since I've dabbled in... let's say a grey area of things when it comes to online games.
Plus we're not getting the whole Episode 2 in July 17, it's separated into parts (there's something about part 2 in October and part 3 in December in the roadmap).
We're also going to be getting new areas alot faster than during the 1st half of the year, getting new areas in July, September and November, so, for me, the 2nd half of the year looks alot more promising than the 1st half.

[Vandread]

I think, in all honesty, that developers aren't expecting people to simply exit-burst all day every day (so to say), and actually take their time to get through the new areas and such. In that regard, adding a class of 1-60, makes for a lot of time invested before it reaches cap and 'new content' would need to be added for those that reached the end-game state.

I do think that the trailers only showed info on Part 1 as well. Otherwise, chances are they'd have shown something like Super Very Hard with mobs having additional attacks and such. I do think that this sort of release is going to be kind of like what happened after the Betas. Content was added pretty quickly (because they had time to create it) and then dwindled down to a slower rate only so that x% of the time could be invested in EP2 releasing content at a faster pace again, after which it'll likely dwindle down to a slower rate once more.

It's only logical, it's outright impossible to keep on releasing new areas, story, game systems, etc. every month. However, what I do think they should be spending more attention on is how they're actually fleshing out the game systems present now. The entire latent ability is a system with lots of potential, but it's simply not being used. I also believe that weapons like the Mace of Adaman (too infamous really), coming with Freeze II by default, should actually have Freeze II affix 'locked' on there, permanently (and not counting towards the Affix#). In doing so a greater variety / customization of arms can be made as well, if other weapons get given a similar treatment. One could also take this into the area of units as well.

[gigawuts]

I also believe that weapons like the Mace of Adaman (too infamous really), coming with Freeze II by default, should actually have Freeze II affix 'locked' on there, permanently (and not counting towards the Affix#). In doing so a greater variety / customization of arms can be made as well, if other weapons get given a similar treatment. One could also take this into the area of units as well.

Oh my god, I can't support this enough.

I've thought about separating SE's from regular affixes, or having permanent affixes on weapons. The approach they've taken with affixes like Another History on Zanba and Axeon is lazy, and limits what you can do with the weapons. I get Lucky Rise/etc. being limited, that's so teched weapons have additional value. I just don't think the Freeze II on Mace of Adaman, Another History, etc. should be slotted with normal affixes.

I feel like SE's in general need work. For one, I think they should be tied to the element (incoming rage), but then enemies should have varying SE weaknesses. They may be weak to fire damage, but then very easily frozen or shocked, despite not being super weak to ice or lightning, or something. It just seems too plain to make an enemy's weakness also the easiest SE to apply, and is part of why FO is so crazy strong.

[Walkure]

Oh my god, I can't support this enough.

I've thought about separating SE's from regular affixes, or having permanent affixes on weapons. The approach they've taken with affixes like Another History on Zanba and Axeon is lazy, and limits what you can do with the weapons. I get Lucky Rise/etc. being limited, that's so teched weapons have additional value. I just don't think the Freeze II on Mace of Adaman, Another History, etc. should be slotted with normal affixes.

I feel like SE's in general need work. For one, I think they should be tied to the element (incoming rage), but then enemies should have varying SE weaknesses. They may be weak to fire damage, but then very easily frozen or shocked, despite not being super weak to ice or lightning, or something. It just seems too plain to make an enemy's weakness also the easiest SE to apply, and is part of why FO is so crazy strong.
Lucky Rise Excube armor should have a similar permanent affix with their lucky rise. It'd be awesome to actually change up the affixes on that without compromising the entire point of getting those armors.

What needs to happen more with SEs is having a reason to use anything but Shock, Burn, and Poison. Binding the SEs to elements would make incentivize Lightning, Fire, and Dark weapons even more, unless there are a lot more vulnerabilities added.

[gigawuts]

That is literally the solution you want.

By separating enemy element weakness from SE weakness, an enemy can stay weak to fire/lightning but be very weak to mirage.

Meaning physical contact weapons - guns & blades - which gain minimally from their element, would not be as punished for using the wrong element for its SE, and then rewarded by applying the SE with ease. Using a wind weapon against an enemy that's weak to fire & mirage would barely reduce your damage, but the gains from easily and constantly applying the SE would be significant.

The balance between SE's themselves can also be addressed, but is a separate issue.

[Walkure]

Oh, I'm not doubting that it will, if implemented properly.

In order to balance out element AND statuses, with fire dark and lightning providing near-total offensive coverage, mirage, freeze, and panic should similarly have a relative edge in status application. Hopefully, by having damage and utility be separately powerful, that'd end up balancing the elements and the statuses in total. Heck, with enough freezable enemies, you could also balance out the Force tree a bit.

Really is a decent idea.

[Saffran]

Rien > nope. You are mistaking the Meseta reward with the Exp reward. You'd earn 9200Exp so you'd be lv8. Except there is an exp penalty if you redeem them when you're under lv9 anyway.

To expand on the CO's exp being nerfed, I'm not exactly sure how it works for daily collectible COs, which is why it is difficult to predict.
If I go with enemy level requirements, the smart thing to do is to turn in orders like "Lv1 ZaUdan Thorns" first and proceed from there.
The big unknow is what happens to "run this quest" daily COs. You can access TA normal quests from lv1 on, but enemies are lv20. Likewise, TA hard mode is lv21 but enemies are 35-40 (40 all the way in some instances).

If you bring in "Lv1 ZaUdan", "Lv5 Garongo", "Lv11 Digg", "Lv11 Sol Dinian", "Lv11 Nodiran", "Capture Rappy N", "Lv15 Catadran", "Lv16 Vol Dragon", "Lv18 El Ahda", "TA Nab N", "TA Lil N", and "TA Amd N" at x99, you *should* earn roughly 189k Exp, bringing you to level 21.

After those, there are a few orders for lv25 enemies and after even those, it becomes speculation.

[Rien]

I meant the exp from killing the mobs inside the TAs

I had an alt which zoomed straight to 20 this way, so...

[Vandread]

@gigawuts / Walkure:
Imo, the problem with Force is just the fact that the game is so focused on destroying everything as quickly and efficiently as possible that Ice simply stands no chance at all because it doesn't contribute to either of those two factors in a very substantial way. The nature of the Ice Techniques also don't really help either - Foie vs Barta, Zondeel vs Gibarta (closest you actually have), Rabarta vs Gifoie, Sabarta? How about Rafoie or Zonde... Ice is simply outclassed and has no real niche. Personally, I haven't played Force or Techer up to the max (only 50 on both), but simply put - anyone can see Force's Fire and Lightning trees and techs are just way better than Ice's. Freeze Ignition also being this pointless just makes it a beaten up child. Also, Photon Flare. lol.

How long was Hunter's Fury Stance left untouched? Yeah... Now I get that Force is quite strong offensively seen already, so changing Photon Flare to become a %-based skill, similar to Fury Stance (along with Afterburst / Fury Stance Up, etc etc) would probably make a FO crank out some ludicrous numbers. Changing PF though, would already make Ice Tree a lot more competitive. The issue after is that probably the combination of PF with all the other modifiers makes things go out of whack. It'd actually become a case of needing to test low, mid and high ranges of numbers and working from there. From pure speculative point of view, you'd probably want a combination of +x and +y%, with the x being lower than it is right now, and y being not too high a %.

Regarding Freeze Ignition, the current freeze simply breaks so fast that Freeze Ignition barely has a point, if any at all. Thinking a bit, maybe the freeze status could be altered to become a 'two step' state? First part being the rock solid freeze (which we have now), second part being a 'chilled/frozen' state, which basically slows enemies down a bit for a short period of time, yet still allows Forces to use Ignition. And maybe Ignition should just be made ranged.

[Kierto]

From bumped (http://bumped.org/psublog/pso2-episode-2-teaser/).


There was a question if we’re getting a “Subdue Dudu” quest, and they responded that they’re adding another grinding shop attendant. This person was described as a “clumsy girl.” (This may have something to do with the +15 grind shown in the video?)


adding another grinding shop attendant. This person was described as a “clumsy girl.”


This person was described as a “clumsy girl.”


"clumsy girl."

[jooozek]

watch the clumsy ho accidentally break your weapon and go "teehee"

[gigawuts]

watch the clumsy ho accidentally break your weapon and go "teehee"

inb4 this is exactly what happens

I can't wait for people to stop saying "but at least your weapon doesn't break!!!!11"

as though something else being worse in any way shape or form makes this system good

[Saffran]

Rien > You're going to have to explain the math. You don't earn 176k while running through all 5 VH TA, so I take it that running N TA will not have you reach those either.
I agree that it would help leveling, but not as well as you say. You must have had some extra COs going on to reach that feat.

[HIT0SHI]

Clumsy Girl: All your rage are belong to me!

[The Walrus]

I swear to god if they bring back weapon breaking and someone tries to defend that shit...

[Rien]

>weapon breaking
>super rare weapons you may only get once in your entire lifetime, if you actually get them

yeah no.

[yoshiblue]

Breaking all your weapons so you pay more attention to me? ARRRRRRRRRRRRRKZ!!! [proceed to shake fist in air*]

http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/300x300/38822508.jpg

[shagia]

watch the clumsy ho accidentally break your weapon and go "teehee"

i'd actually completely laugh about this every time it happens

going "teehee" afterwards is typical so I wouldn't be surprised

[AgemFrostMage]

Agreed I only use ice in the volcano and even then switch to wind sometimes. Wind is the other "so weak" element and sometimes I even use safoie in the volcano against not vol dragon. Samegid I use on catadran and lightning works fine there too. I post in another thread rebalancing and even have an idea for a new ice spell: Nabarta. It works like this:

1.Samegid's mechanics, but does less damage, travels faster, and has a narrower path so when fully charged all three iceballs can home in and hit a human sized character like a sadinian.

[Walkure]

inb4 this is exactly what happens

I can't wait for people to stop saying "but at least your weapon doesn't break!!!!11"

as though something else being worse in any way shape or form makes this system goodkMMOs are still mad horseshit with their reinforcement systems.

Rough estimates for upgrading in DFO (NA version closed down recently):
http://i.imgur.com/JzqvyE8.png
and this was for some rare worth ~500k, with a 117k base cost for reinforcing.


It's relatively nice that there's no weapon breaking, and a cap on the weapon reinforcement, but why not just pay a fixed amount to "unlock strength" of a weapon at this rate?

[gigawuts]

yeah that doesn't make pso2's system good

watch as i make that kmmo good

"you should just be glad you got to play video games instead of being sent to auschwitz"

do you see how bullshit that logic is? surely you can see why you can't call something good simply because something worse exists

[Enforcer MKV]

I swear to god if they bring back weapon breaking and someone tries to defend that shit...

If they bring back weapon's breaking, I'm almost positive the Japanese players will attempt to throttle Sega.

...If someone tries to defend it, they're either dumb, or a troll.

[AgemFrostMage]

I swear to god if they bring back weapon breaking and someone tries to defend that shit...

Try Wonderland Online! I break so many rare ingredients trying to get rare frozen dragon blades, game is a ripoff, over so much money is spent on the weapon itself and strengthening it (item mall weapons have highest crit rate). Look up their item mall strong scroll rate and mechanic, the $55 for the sword isn't as expensive as the scrolls needed to strengthen it to max level.

After resellers flooded the server I was done with the game, community changed overnight somehow. Instead of drops weapons were crafted via alchemy, and there was a chance to fail.

Free to play, pay to be a pro, and pay too much for it!

So... no, no item breaking for this game!

[AgemFrostMage]

kMMOs are still mad horseshit with their reinforcement systems.

Rough estimates for upgrading in DFO (NA version closed down recently):
http://i.imgur.com/JzqvyE8.png
and this was for some rare worth ~500k, with a 117k base cost for reinforcing.


It's relatively nice that there's no weapon breaking, and a cap on the weapon reinforcement, but why not just pay a fixed amount to "unlock strength" of a weapon at this rate?

Nearly 2 quadrillion meseta! No! The rate it must change!

[Walkure]

yeah that doesn't make pso2's system good
I never said it was objectively good. Even with the optimization I did on using item, grinding shit's a rigamarole for little reason.

[gigawuts]

It really is. Even if they don't change it, I at least want batch grinding.

Select dropdown box -> choose number -> click [Okay]. If I could, I'd drop 200 grinders on one item and see what happens. If you hit +10 before using them all up, the remaining grinders are returned.

Seriously, why is this not a feature? Other people would drop 10k grinders for every single item, just to reduce the number of clicks at dudu because they don't care how many grinders it would actually need.

[Enforcer MKV]

...This is random and off topic, but am I the only one who reads the title of the thread and thinks of this?

[SPOILER-BOX]http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-FFpUo771xbc/UaNn0M9Ap3I/AAAAAAAAAWU/CBNxgExQRfg/s320/51987-Are-You-Not-Entertained-1a5I.jpeg[/SPOILER-BOX]

[Gardios]

But in DFO you felt good about +10ing your equipment because +10 is still pretty good and it's relatively cheap to achieve. +11 and higher is obviously better, but you also risk your weapon in the process. This doesn't even account for the fact that fixed damage classes don't even need to reinforce their weapons at all to do well.

In PSO2 anything below +10 feels unsatisfying because bonus isn't linear, you want that +10 bonus. Since your weapon is safe all the way through, anything below +10 feels like a waste ("I don't risk anything!") and Dudu will gladly charge you an arm and a leg.

[gigawuts]

Wait wait wait, woah woah woah.

In DFO there was no risk of failure?

I take it back, DFO is better.

[Walkure]

Best part is using keyboard commands to grind, hitting +7 or above, hitting up key to select a support item juuuuuuust a teensy bit too early due to ping, and just going ahead with the grind. And, wouldn't you know it, it went down one. That one result you could've easily prevented if you had used a support item like you intended.

All my hate.


But in DFO you felt good about +10ing your equipment because +10 is still pretty good and it's relatively cheap to achieve. +11 and higher is obviously better, but you also risk your weapon in the process. This doesn't even account for the fact that fixed damage classes don't even need to reinforce their weapons at all to do well.

In PSO2 anything below +10 feels unsatisfying because bonus isn't linear, you want that +10 bonus. Since your weapon is safe all the way through, anything below +10 feels like a waste ("I don't risk anything!") and Dudu will gladly charge you an arm and a leg.For any percent class, the difference between a +10 and a +12 was goddamn huge in endgame dungeons. The reinforcement provided piercing damage which had much less reduction than base damage. Even on classes with heavy base damage some piercing was a pretty big deal.

And a fixed damage class basically had refining weapons instead. Think PSO2's grinding system, except no risk, low success rates, and grinders only drop from an area you can only enter solo.

[Gardios]

Wait wait wait, woah woah woah.

In DFO there was no risk of failure?

I take it back, DFO is better.

No, there is, but it doesn't break up until +10. Kiri is also much cheaper than Dudu. You usually just went reinforcing, cursed a bit if RNG god didn't like you, but all's well that ends well (if you stick to +10, that is).

[gravityvx]

Kiri was cheaper?? Say whaaaaaaaaaat

I can't even count how many times I spent 10mil+ just trying to get to damn +10. I hate her soooo much more than Dudu.

[Walkure]

No, there is, but it doesn't break up until +10. Kiri is also much cheaper than Dudu. You usually just went reinforcing, cursed a bit if RNG god didn't like you, but all's well that ends well (if you stick to +10, that is).If you stuck to +10, and doing endgame dungeons, you were probably playing a fixed damage class, which didn't really need it in the first place.

Even then, comparing someone who farmed in DFO for their gold (1-1.5m in a day of grinding) to someone doing H/VH TACOs in PSO2, it wouldn't be that different for the average cost of getting to +10 on either.

[gigawuts]

I still think the best mid-way solution to PSO2's grinding system would be this:

Leave all rates and chances of failure as they currently are
Using one grinder, successfully or not, reduces the rate of failure on that weapon by .1% - permanently.

So doing 9->10 is said to be 30%. That would be 30/100. To get to this point you've used, at the least, 9 grinders. Your odds are now at the worst 30/99.1.

If, by chance, you use 700 grinders your odds become - yep - 30/30. This makes success a guarantee. If the number were to somehow become 30/29 or something similar success would also be guaranteed.

This counter could reset when you do a latent, or hell it could just stay as-is. Maybe reduce it by some number (or to zero, if it would have become negative).

Grind protects and grind boosters would function exactly the same. Maybe they'd do something to the counter, maybe not.

[MetalDude]

When EP2 starts they want to increase EP1′s matter board drop rates.
I realize this is under the rumors list but finally. The only reason I don't have 6 and 7 done is because of the extremely stupid number of Vol, Quartz, and Vardha you have to kill.

[Shinamori]

Same reason for me. I don't have 6-8 done.

[Kitoshi]

I realize this is under the rumors list but finally. The only reason I don't have 6 and 7 done is because of the extremely stupid number of Vol, Quartz, and Vardha you have to kill.


Same reason for me. I don't have 6-8 done.

You both know there is a guaranteed drop now right ? After you kill a boss/mob for a specific amount of times, it fills up a bar you can see when you select the node, if the bar fills to the max the item drops guaranteed.

But i guess trying more then once is where the issue lies here :P.

[BlankM]

I would hope eventually we see a way to raise element without needing multiples of the weapon. Something like a quest where you can trade an item to get it to 40% or something. Anything to power up those elusive 11 or 12* weapons when you finally get them.

[MetalDude]

You both know there is a guaranteed drop now right ? After you kill a boss/mob for a specific amount of times, it fills up a bar you can see when you select the node, if the bar fills to the max the item drops guaranteed.

But i guess trying more then once is where the issue lies here :P.
I'm aware. You need around 50 kills to get the guaranteed drop. It's fucking dumb.

[Vandread]

And its a non-obligatory drop... so I don't see why it's a bad thing it takes 50 kills? You can run Hans' CO to the side, not like you need to get it in one day either.

[gigawuts]

I'm aware. You need around 50 kills to get the guaranteed drop. It's fucking dumb.

You only need 40 on the absolute rarest items. Most are no more than 10, afaik.

[MetalDude]

The only ones I have remaining are the 40 kills hence why I'm not done with those two specific boards. Everything else was at least reasonable.

[Kitoshi]

The only ones I have remaining are the 40 kills hence why I'm not done with those two specific boards. Everything else was at least reasonable.

Then it sounds like you are just being a completionist, and you should expect some effort to be put into that to get all of them to 100 %.

Even if 40 kills is crazy, at least it gives you something to do right ?

[MetalDude]

I stopped doing it because there's really no other incentive; no one on our team runs AQs that involves those bosses and we haven't touched TAs in over two weeks. At least the weapon training COs pay off by comparison. It's just stupid to ask of so many kills for bosses.

[Vandread]

I either duo or solo. I personally don't find it any sort of issue at all to run a certain boss multiple times. Obviously there is an incentive, since you want to finish it. Using AQs for it simply wouldn't be the effective method into doing so.

[spoiler-box]http://i.imgur.com/TCU5ixQ.jpg[/spoiler-box]

Simply running free zone is though. That's 158 Quartz Dragon items for that /99 daily quest there has been (dunno how long ago though). I think I'll have done more than 40 by now. Really, it doesn't take that long. If you just do 5 a day, which doesn't take long on those lowbie ones in the free zones, then you'll still get there in about a week.

[ShinMaruku]

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lyhsnjCxyy1qfriu3o1_500.gif
Sega at work.

[Zipzo]

Not that I'm deflecting the conversation here, because I do find grinding to have its flaws in the great scheme of what could be a more enjoyable system for everyone...but why is it we're always talking about grinding in this way?

Whenever I have acquired a new 10* that needs to be +10 as long as I have around 2 million meseta or so (you can earn this in a day by playing + TA or two days of TA) I can just about guarantee +10 in at most 20 minutes of dedicated Dudu time. I'm not 100% positive that all of you are aware of better methods...but do you all just sit at the NPC spamming with no support items hoping that the gods favor you or something?

Getting a 10* to +10 is relatively easy as long as you have a small handful of GRR -1's, and a relatively good handful of meseta to back you up incase of horrible embarrassing unlucky failure. When I have gotten a 10* that I need to +10 I honestly can't remember the last time I didn't +10 it the same damn day I got it.

This doesn't mean the system is good or fun or couldn't be improved, and this problem is only slightly compounded if you don't consider to be done grinding until at a lvl 3 potential (how often is that?), but to me it just seems to silly to put so much effort in to bitching about grinding when you have an easily 10x more indefensible system in affixing, and grinding just...isn't really that big of a deal.

Grinding is easy. It's not even really that annoying if you know what to expect while going for +10.

Affixing however...there's some true merit to discussing the many woes of that system.

[MetalDude]

I think there's still scars from when grinding used to be atrocious, but overall it's manageable to put it one way. Of course, there's still the spare case of something failing at +9 around 7 times or more that makes you want to punch a hole in the screen. I personally despise affixing. I've tried to make it work as a means of profit, but it never fucking works.

[UnLucky]

At least it isn't like in Atlantica where you need a copy of your weapon, including reinforcement level, as well as an increasing amount of enchanting mats in order to upgrade your gear by +1 (so yes, every tier is at least twice as expensive as the last). And you need to gear out all of your mercenaries as well, which can be up to nine at a time.

Though the best thing about that was it was guaranteed progress. No failure, and even a chance to gain an extra level in one try. The more money you had, the more progress you made. An unlucky streak just means you're not as far as you could have been, sometimes significantly, but never backwards.

As for why grinding takes the most heat despite being the easiest upgrading method (relatively), it's also the most significant. Find/buy a better rare? Either impossible, or 30 million for 50 Atk at +10. LMAO. Raise the element? Yeah, find/buy the same weapon again and a ticket for up to 8% stats. LOL. Affix more slots? Yeah, enjoy your 5% chance to KEEP what you ALREADY HAD all for 10 more stats and each additional slot is worse for specialization than the last.

Whereas grinding to +10 is nearly double your weapon's effectiveness (actually, it IS 200% for 12*). Without boosters, it is very likely to drop you way down any time you're near the end. And earlier the base grinding costs were much more expensive. Even though it's cheaper to attempt now, the core mechanic is still quite bullshit, hence the complaints.