Tanking

[La'Haryl]

Is it effective?
How's it done?
Is it even necessary?

Go!

[Z-0]

No.
By making a terrible HU tree.
It's not.

/thread

[gigawuts]

The game is pretty generous with dodging, guarding, and plain old kiting.

[La'Haryl]

No.
By making a terrible HU tree.
It's not.

/thread
Looking for several opinions. Interested in the subject. Take your god complex elsewhere, I'm sure other people have interesting things to say.

[Shadowth117]

No.
By making a terrible HU tree.
It's not.

/thread
This^

[Dnd]

Looking for several opinions. Interested in the subject. Take your god complex elsewhere, I'm sure other people have interesting things things to say.

Unfortunately, that really is the whole of it in a nutshell :|

As giga said, dodging and guarding are more then enough for even someone with the bare minimum skillpoints invested defensively (Ie, the base ones to get to the dps skills). Unless its a rare situation you get flatout 1 shot or doing a, lets say +21 city AQ. Which even if you where a tanky build, you'd get shredded in mere moments with everything attacking you anyway, sure you'd take maybe 5, 6 hits to die but you'd be flinch-locked to death regardless of being hit twice of six times.

And we aren't even getting to the huge drop in damage required to even pick up these ability's in the first place

[The Walrus]

Looking for several opinions. Interested in the subject. Take your god complex elsewhere, I'm sure other people have interesting things to say.

Someone can't handle the truth.

Tanking really is that bad.

[La'Haryl]

Someone can't handle the truth.

Tanking really is that bad.

I have no problem with a tank spec being obsolete, I'm full fury stance. I was just asking because I wanted to hear thoughts on the subject.

Asking someone to keep narcissistic BS out of my thread isn't "not handling the truth" It's suggesting the notion that they don't have the final say on the subject which isn't really such an abstract idea.

[Punisher106]

The PS series has always been about pumping offensive ability. Being a real-time combat RPG, Defense is really useless, since you can move when you want. Don't bat an eyelash at defensive stuff.

[gravityvx]

Automate Halfline all the tankiness you'll need, ever.

[La'Haryl]

Automate Halfline all the tankiness you'll need, ever.

When it passively use a mate do you get the 1.5 second pause you get from regularly using a mate?

[Xaeris]

No, it goes off without inhibiting you. It'll even go off if you're stunned or knocked down or otherwise incapacitated (besides dead, obviously) at the time it's triggered. The thing to be mindful of is that it has a short internal cooldown, so if it goes off once, and you immediately drop back below 50% because you're caught in Quartz's laser rain or something, it won't trigger again.

[La'Haryl]

Nifty.

[Zenobia]

Its okay to try out different things.

Combine it with Hu's iron will and GU's automate deadline skill and you have constant healing basically a moving tank. This could make the Perfect Keeper GU skill work wonders sense you must be at full health for it to take effect. If you have no problems with Just guarding and all that jazz then go for it.

[GuardianGirth]

Automate Halfline all the tankiness you'll need, ever.

This. The ability to keep your position and continue attacking while taking hits is more effective than having raw power in many situations and will result in higher DPS once you get used to when to tank this or that.

[gigawuts]

When I want to tank I take my full glass cannon fi/hu build (well, that's not true, I have just guard) and put my 6* lucky rise sdef units on.

Only level 57/55 and it gets me >950 hp and > 1100 sdef

I survive most striking attacks meant to one-shot non-tank builds without a problem. Even the falz arm train in the new "powered up" falz hands quest leaves me with over 120 hp left, and that's with fury stance enabled too.

[Zenobia]

When I want to tank I take my full glass cannon fi/hu build (well, that's not true, I have just guard) and put my 6* lucky rise sdef units on.

Only level 57/55 and it gets me >950 hp and > 1100 sdef

I survive most striking attacks meant to one-shot non-tank builds without a problem. Even the falz arm train in the new "powered up" falz hands quest leaves me with over 120 hp left, and that's with fury stance enabled too.

^Thanks to your explanations about that LOOOONGGG TIME AGO I swear those s def units work wonders I don't use anything else but them<3
I can srsly take on anything and not be 1hit KO and im Full DPS specced!

[moorebounce]

Actually Automate Halfline is great. You do have to be mindful of the cool-down period on bosses that have multiple large attacks. Blocking is good also because if you time it right it will do damage to the enemy attacking you. While tanking YOU just take damage however small it may be.

Getting Automate Halfline and learning to block is all you'll need to tank. Believe me with you in the enemy's face causing damage they'll agro on you too.

On boards you have to ignore some of the people on them. If you don't you give them power.

[Zenobia]

Actually Automate Halfline is great. You do have to be mindful of the cool-down period on bosses that have multiple large attacks. Blocking is good also because if you time it right it will do damage to the enemy attacking you. While tanking YOU just take damage however small it may be.

Getting Automate Halfline and learning to block is all you'll need to tank. Believe me with you in the enemy's face causing damage they'll agro on you too.

On boards you have to ignore some of the people on them. If you don't you give them power.

Actually when you Just guard correctly you take no damage at all and do damage to the enemy now if I read that part wrong I apologies and do correct me.

[o0Kais0o]

Iron Will + Gunner dodging to safety, thats as close to being a tank I will ever be lol.

[Courina]

what you need for tankign here is just guard skill and training for get used with it

else -> dodge

[ReaperTheAbsol]

I find tanking to be more useful in small groups as opposed to large MPAs. Things die relatively quickly in MPAs, and a few seconds of tank stealing aggro won't make boss stomping that much faster. Pure offensive works best here because everything is roflstomped when it spawns, but I suppose you can boast and say you survived the Pain Train and can make your own t-shirt for bragging rights.

In smaller groups tanks are more likely to shine. I have witnessed some tanking, but it isn't my cup of tea. I suppose tanks stealing aggro from you and acting like a total meat shield is cool and all, but I would rather bring someone that nukes bosses. I already maintain aggro without being a defensive build, and I'm doing just peachy.

[Lamoon26]

When I first saw this post I thought you meant tanking by definition of the job.

One who invokes the main enemy (boss) and tricks that boss into pursuing him and him alone in an attempt to keep the party free to maximize damage.

In that way I believe tanking is an element of this game because most bosses AI is set to pursue one character for a long time (Chrome Dragon LOOOOVVESS ME ).

But I guess you mean a hunter or high defense class that maximizes def in the skill tree.

In that way it would be similar to a TE who only maximizes buffs and heals and acts as a Healer.

This game is loaded with nothing but damage dealers :(

[moorebounce]

Actually when you Just guard correctly you take no damage at all and do damage to the enemy now if I read that part wrong I apologies and do correct me.

I didn't mention you wouldn't take damage if your block was timed right. Also I never said you would take damage either.

My statement wasn't wrong just incomplete.

[Zenobia]

I didn't mention you wouldn't take damage if your block was timed right. Also I never said you would take damage either.

My statement wasn't wrong just incomplete.

And I never said nowhere in my post that you were wrong, I said "If I read it wrong".

Just to clear up that misunderstanding.

[GuardianGirth]

When I want to tank I take my full glass cannon fi/hu build (well, that's not true, I have just guard) and put my 6* lucky rise sdef units on.

Only level 57/55 and it gets me >950 hp and > 1100 sdef

I survive most striking attacks meant to one-shot non-tank builds without a problem. Even the falz arm train in the new "powered up" falz hands quest leaves me with over 120 hp left, and that's with fury stance enabled too.

Unless you're using S def units with 550+ requirement or have gloom resists on your shit, no, Falz arm's pain train does not leave you with 120 HP left and you're full of shit. My hunter is 60/60 with about 1060 S Def and 998 HP and it still does just over 1000 with fury stance on. Thats with ragne units.

[Xaeris]

The Spike set has innate Striking Resistance on each piece which reduces damage by a percentage, which would be extremely effective on something like Falz's hand train. Ragne's set does not, which is probably the difference.

[Xaelouse]

automate halfline lets you go bonkers with hyper-armored attacks, so it's pretty invaluable to overend and wired lance users. It also makes Elder Pain sorta redundant so you can use stronger swords. Elder Pain is still nice if you dont have AH though

[GuardianGirth]

The Spike set has innate Striking Resistance on each piece which reduces damage by a percentage, which would be extremely effective on something like Falz's hand train. Ragne's set does not, which is probably the difference.

Wait, I'm using Black Angel wings, im dumb. Either way they both lack any strike resist.

Makes sense then. Might have to switch to Stamina 3 on one of my units just to survive that barely.

[Kitoshi]

The Spike set has innate Striking Resistance on each piece which reduces damage by a percentage, which would be extremely effective on something like Falz's hand train. Ragne's set does not, which is probably the difference.

You mean strike resist ? Ya, sorry to break it to you but the ragne set (the 489 req one) does have Strike resist as a default ability.

Just had to correct that little bit of false information.

[Xaeris]

You're correct. I was thinking of another set, I suppose. At any rate, Girth already said he's using Black Luxe so my explanation stands.

[Coatl]

You don't want a tank in your party. No one wants a tank in their party.

[La'Haryl]

If you think you speak for everyone don't bother posting and have someone assist you in getting rid of that awfully large chip on your shoulder.

You don't want to be that guy, No one likes that guy.

As fun as popular opinion is it doesn't dictate actions, and the idea that people should be coddled over the fact that maybe they don't want to do what 90% of the player base is doing just holds everyone back.

The options there so I'm just asking for opinions and feed back. Although we all know you're 100% right about everything forever until the end of time, rest assured your opinion isn't wanted in my topic if you hold the firm believe that your opinion is the end of the discussion.

Continue.

Off topic;

Thanks Giga and the others who actually gave feedback and casual debate on the subject, and I love that we're all unified in referring to the Falz Arms ability as the "Falz Hand Train" Short, sweet, and somewhat dirty, just how I like it.

[Z-0]

You asked if it was effective or necessary. I answered those questions, that's all.

When it comes to the Falz Train, building to tank it is pointless. Stand exactly where it spawns and don't move: It never hits you. Try it!

[gigawuts]

Unless you're using S def units with 550+ requirement or have gloom resists on your shit, no, Falz arm's pain train does not leave you with 120 HP left and you're full of shit. My hunter is 60/60 with about 1060 S Def and 998 HP and it still does just over 1000 with fury stance on. Thats with ragne units.
The Spike set has innate Striking Resistance on each piece which reduces damage by a percentage, which would be extremely effective on something like Falz's hand train. Ragne's set does not, which is probably the difference.

Wait, I'm using Black Angel wings, im dumb. Either way they both lack any strike resist.

Makes sense then. Might have to switch to Stamina 3 on one of my units just to survive that barely.

Glad to see this resolved itself pretty quickly, being that I literally just had this happen to me a few hours ago.

I highly advise getting the 6* spike lucky rise set. I only got it because of the hp set bonus, but was REALLY surprised by just how effective the set actually is at letting you take hits. It's absolutely a keeper, and I went from full time dodge-or-die gameplay with black wings to "ha ha hit me again with that hand chain slam, falz, I might need to use a monomate" with the spike set.

It's a very affordable set (30 excubes, which isn't a lot these days compared to other units I suppose, since you don't need to affix anything) and it's very effective. Going "tank mode" (which is really just "i don't die to oneshots right now" mode) is as easy as changing your 3 units from the armor window.

edit: And yes, as z-o said, if you stand where it initially spawns you won't be hit. Even with the spikes on I do this because I'm too lazy to refill my mate stock.

[Zenobia]

That set is way to damn good and in all honesty if they came out with another version best believe I throw the ones I have on me in storage and cop those suckers fast!

[Sayara]

ヽ༼ຈل͜ຈ༽ﾉ
Hi. I play a somewhat tank-y model HU. I subclass it though; and use FO as my main. Here are some things that i take to consideration as a somewhat tankier FO:

1. Zondeel with a Rod with less concerns. I have automate halfguard, flash s-def and iron wills they can keep me sturdy while i pull out a huge mob of enemies together. Zondeel with a FO/te has always lead to disasters if you didnt use a rod.

2. With all of those protection abilities activated (see also Guard Stance) I can provide more heals, more use of moons as other glass cannon characters die almost instantly to some attacks. (It happens, you cant avoid. At least someone withstood if with 20 hp.

3. I play CC with Na-zan/Ra-zan/Zondeel/Another Spin/Stunning WL abilities whenever possible to push away problematic enemies away from distracted GCs.

4. I often Na-zan rappies away to protect them from others ;_;

PROs:
* A somewhat sturdier force character, withstand more than 1 hit on Vhard/AQ/EX
* Usefulness in keeping the other 3 glass cannons alive.
* Use Zondeel and not die instantly
* Guard Stance DOES NOT REMOVE T-ATK %s

CONs:
* You do not do much damage in either direction (at least with me)
* You are by no means a solo player with this build / Will suffer by being slowed down in Nab2/Amb2
* You are by far one of the least popular builds that everybody here likes.

Take it as a grain of salt. I played a support FO in PSO1 for 5 years. This felt like the next step of being a support FO since Shifta/Deband is not as useful.

You'll want to put your SP towards the defensive stats on the HU tree: Guard Stance, Iron Will, Flash Defenses, Guard Reversal, HP ups. I'd put points in the 3 gears, Step attack, Just Reversal (quick recovery from falling over) and Automate Halfguard. You don't /have/ to be 100% defensive. You shouldnt have to...

FO tree I do the usual butter/bread setup. Zonde TP cut, PP Regenerate while charging skill, JA, Charge tech bonus etc.

For the gear, consider HP boosts affixes. I've used Wolga Souls for the extra T-Atk boost even if im using HU gear. Having silly high HP with the defensive stats makes a world of difference. I currently use the Snow Banther armors for they require T-Def to equip, and provide strong S-Def (if you focus FO).


Though its up to you.. People have suggested TE over FO for the main class; however i liked the PP regen while charging my skills, and i prefer to use an Elder Rod/[Rabbit Wand] over a wand though.. thats a preference thing.. Its just how i go about buisness. And as far as i know; nobody has hated my inability to nuke things yet. Good luck!

[Coatl]

Unless you're using S def units with 550+ requirement or have gloom resists on your shit, no, Falz arm's pain train does not leave you with 120 HP left and you're full of shit. My hunter is 60/60 with about 1060 S Def and 998 HP and it still does just over 1000 with fury stance on. Thats with ragne units.

Nope. My Hu tanks the train just fine. 1000+ HP, lux set Power III Vol Soul + Stamina Boost.

[DoubleCannon]

i read threw a few posts and gotta admit kinda bulls*** how people saying tanks are useless or whatnot. I am a tank build with 2k S-def and pretty sure my team loves me for it and still get 1800ish S-atk with a decent 10*


You don't want a tank in your party. No one wants a tank in their party.

^ just.... what!?

FYI for anyone who wants a tank build, it is a viable build, I have done it, I am always there to revive people because I do not die and also note I play as Fighter main.

I can honestly say if you guys think tank build sucks.. your doing it wrong, I really have no other words for it. anyways my 2 cents.

Also when braver comes out, I can only assume my tank will take a notch up since katana is very fast with just guard. anyways continue saying tanks are useless junk even though ive not seen anyone else with 2k S-def, 1k other def and 1800+ S-atk / any attack.

[gigawuts]

i read threw a few posts and gotta admit kinda bulls*** how people saying tanks are useless or whatnot. I am a tank build with 2k S-def and pretty sure my team loves me for it and still get 1800ish S-atk with a decent 10*



^ just.... what!?

FYI for anyone who wants a tank build, it is a viable build, I have done it, I am always there to revive people because I do not die and also note I play as Fighter main.

I can honestly say if you guys think tank build sucks.. your doing it wrong, I really have no other words for it. anyways my 2 cents.

Also when braver comes out, I can only assume my tank will take a notch up since katana is very fast with just guard. anyways continue saying tanks are useless junk even though ive not seen anyone else with 2k S-def, 1k other def and 1800+ S-atk / any attack.

And what are your multipliers? Because the days where stats were all-important passed the day they added skilltrees with crazy high multipliers.

[Inazuma]

If you are soloing a difficult boss and are worried about dying and failing the quest, then it might be worth using a defensive skill tree or defensive equipment. That's about it.

If you are playing with at least one other person, then defense doesn't matter. Deaths don't matter in parties of 2+ players.

I wish there was an actual penalty for death in this game, even a very small one. I also wish that you weren't allowed to warp back to the campship during boss fights to stock up on moons and return to revive everyone. How come it's impossible to fail a quest unless you die while fighting a boss solo?

[La'Haryl]

For a thread that was over by the second post, this one sure is pretty big.

GTFO then.

These kids and their meta.

[The Walrus]

Not their fault Sega made the metagame so skewed towards glass cannons due to OP dodging.

[Gardios]

I've been playing tanky since CB and honestly, while it's nice to not worry about damage too much, glass cannons are simply better because of Fury Stance alone.


Not their fault Sega made the metagame so skewed towards glass cannons due to OP dodging.

I think "made" is the wrong word. SEGA did random stuff and then it just kind of... happened. :wacko:

[gigawuts]

I think "made" is the wrong word. SEGA did random stuff and then it just kind of... happened. :wacko:

God, ain't that the truth.

The reason tanking isn't necessary isn't down to just one problem. All of the reasons are simple enough on their own, though. For starters, as mentioned repeatedly, dodging and guarding are pretty great on their own. Then there's the issue of getting players to want to spend money and general balance

If you make it so only a tank can beat something, what about other classes? Suddenly only HU can compete in something. So that's bad.

Well, what if everyone has their tank options? Well, most players go glass cannon. Most players do not have an extra tree just for tanking. That means most players will just run into the meat grinder repeatedly until they ragequit over how they can't beat something.

The problem with tanking isn't that it's not viable, it's that Sega is so heavyhanded with their balancing that they have zero idea how to allow it to coexist with glass cannons. One will always be more versatile than the other - and when people are faced with a pricetag for two options they'll opt for the one option that lets them do more. Which, due to :sega:, means it's the one they cater to and then it can do everything.

[La'Haryl]

The creators of the game can't make the meta-game, a meta-game is the game within the game that the players govern. It's the way the players feel the game should be played, the socially accepted version of the game.

[The Walrus]

My apologies I had a brain fart.

[gigawuts]

That depends on who you talk to. For me and anyone I've ever played with the metagame is the minmaxing and game outside the game involving anything ranging from crunching numbers, to spreadsheets, to good old social engineering and virtual theft.

In PSO2 the metagame revolves largely around optimizing multipliers & stats and finding new ways to speed up runs. Very little of it is based on social acceptance, although people do have a habit of flaunting superiority when their numbers are bigger than someone else's based on their number crunching (flawed or not).

So a good game dev does make the metagame. But, again, :sega:.

[La'Haryl]

Either way, Metas limit the scope of the game in it's entirety and hold each and every player back in one way or another. It's just a cheap cop out to demand everyone to stick to "what works" or exclude them from the same community/parties in general because they do "X" "DPS less" than everyone else. Everything's viable at one point or another, some of the attitude I've seen in this topic just disgusted me with the english player-base as far as how far much you're willing to tongue punch the system's fart box, enough to completely condemn a subject and the people who participate in it.

It's sad that we're limiting each others play and players like DoubleCannon get to feel alienated for not doing what 90% of the playerbase has decided is the way you must play.

[gigawuts]

Well...I think we mean different things. Sounds like you've had a few run ins with people who are assholes first and metagamers second.

To me metagaming is just an additional layer of analysis that normal players wouldn't really care about or need.

I mean, it's a fact that some builds are going to be less versatile than others. But that's just it: They're less versatile. Doublecannon's build will totally draw aggro, I don't doubt that at all. And I bet not much kills him. But the situations that demand that aren't as common as situations that demand plain old damage, due to :sega:. He can still use that build all the time, I won't hate on him for it. He can do what he likes. But it's a fact that a glass cannon will be more effective a lot of the time. It's also a fact that his build will be more effective sometimes, too.

[jooozek]

It's sad that we're limiting each others play and players like DoubleCannon get to feel alienated for not doing what 90% of the playerbase has decided is the way you must play.

did someone handcuff and told you that you are not allowed to play w/e you want? dont think so

[La'Haryl]

Have fun getting Tacos and AQs with certain set-ups is all I'm saying. I thought it was bad in League, some of the stuff I see in B20 is down right sad.

[BlankM]

Either way, Metas limit the scope of the game in it's entirety and hold each and every player back in one way or another. It's just a cheap cop out to demand everyone to stick to "what works" or exclude them from the same community/parties in general because they do "X" "DPS less" than everyone else. Everything's viable at one point or another, some of the attitude I've seen in this topic just disgusted me with the english player-base as far as how far much you're willing to tongue punch the system's fart box, enough to completely condemn a subject and the people who participate in it.

It's sad that we're limiting each others play and players like DoubleCannon get to feel alienated for not doing what 90% of the playerbase has decided is the way you must play.

You're asking for people's opinion. They gave it to you.

Its not that hard to go Hu and get all the 2x damage modifiers while building tanky with HP units. Building COMPLETE tank to sacrifice 2x damage is not advisable. Play how you want, but your mileage will vary.

[gigawuts]

Bahaha, that's because you're in B20. People in B20 can be horrible. There's some good people, sure, but you're going to run into the worst the EN community has to offer there too.

Hook up with the ones that are alright and keep doing runs with them. If anyone says they won't run tacos with you using a certain build then good news, you've found someone that confessed their assholism to you. Avoid them.

[Z-0]

That's your problem for playing on B20, I guess.

Elsewhere, nobody really cares what you do, unless those people are looking for a specific type of game (eg: all FO Desert EQ) for maximum gain, in which it will be in the description before you join anyway, so you don't have to get kicked.

PS: You tend to say a lot less than you actually say.

[Saffran]

At any rate, I could share a niconico video about a guy tanking X Dragon but the resolution is a bit tiny.
If you want to tank, just slap Strike Resist IV or V, Shot Resist IV or V, and Mind Resist on each piece of your equipment. Then try and get Iron Will on your tree as well as 8 instances of Revive A on your Mag.

What do you mean, that's not possible within the realms of a reasonnable investment? Like PSO2 gives a well you know what I mean.

[Zenobia]

Have fun getting Tacos and AQs with certain set-ups is all I'm saying. I thought it was bad in League, some of the stuff I see in B20 is down right sad.

Ppl on that block pretty much have there own AQ group or EXQ group not gonna deny that one same goes for TA's. Btw if you're smart as you talk and had to choice, but to get your TA's done on B20 you would Pre-Make the party first then say "Doing X run of w/e Join at Counter"! That is a good option to use or you could go to the TA block just saiyan.

If I can go to B20 and net a TA, AQ, EXQ party in seconds you're doing something wrong.

[OppaiMaya]

That set is way to damn good and in all honesty if they came out with another version best believe I throw the ones I have on me in storage and cop those suckers fast!

Those are recommended for poor people who want good s-def.

It's basically the poor man's version of the Fen Set which I recommended if you're rich =P

As for the topic at hand. Why not be both TC?

I have a full glass cannon skill tree (Hu/Fi) and, I have tank HP and defense.

HP 1332 s-def 1316

I use the new ruins sword with Vol/Po3/Sta3/Sta Boost. Blue Fen Set with the same 4 affixes as my sword.

I haven't died in like 2 months and I kill things just as fast as any "leet" glass cannon. Best of both worlds IMO.

That said, you should play the way you want. If you're interested in a TRUE full tank build by all means do it. This game is easy enough for you to play whatever you want so I don't see a problem with it ^^

[Walkure]

Just because people declare that a build or playstyle is inefficient does not mean that it's necessarily shunned. It just means that there are options that provide better return in most circumstances.

We're not all http://i.imgur.com/OkYvqVe.png all the time.


Those are recommended for poor people who want good s-def.

It's basically the poor man's version of the Fen Set which I recommended if you're rich =P
Considering how much people pump into buying 250% tickets for XQs and events, or AQs just to collect pyroxene, and requires no special sdef investment for any race, I'd say it's more of an efficient choice than Fen. The stellar defenses and lack of direct meseta cost are just gravy on top.

[Zenobia]

Those are recommended for poor people who want good s-def.

It's basically the poor man's version of the Fen Set which I recommended if you're rich =P

As for the topic at hand. Why not be both TC?

I have a full glass cannon skill tree (Hu/Fi) and, I have tank HP and defense.

HP 1332 s-def 1316

I use the new ruins sword with Vol/Po3/Sta3/Sta Boost. Blue Fen Set with the same 4 affixes as my sword.

I haven't died in like 2 months and I kill things just as fast as any "leet" glass cannon. Best of both worlds IMO.

That said, you should play the way you want. If you're interested in a TRUE full tank build by all means do it. This game is easy enough for you to play whatever you want so I don't see a problem with it ^^

You missed me and Giga's point completely also that fen set is worst sense it rq the full Lambda set for the bonuses you're better off with he range set. Also you're a full glass cannon then why do you have sta 3 on your units instead of pow3? You haven't died in 2 months but lemme tell ya I can't remember the last time I died. Why? Cause i melt enemies in less than secs and judging by your full sta 3 affixes I know I would kill faster than you not to even boast.

If you're the type of person who gets hit a lot yeah get sta 3 on your units but the game is about offense so I'll stick to my lucky Rise s def ones and my Ragne set. Also yes I am Rich sense you wanna bring that up to and I found the last piece of the Fen set never bought not even one piece so yay me my money spared<3! Also if you want tips on how to spend your money hollah at me because you for damn sure made a poor investment getting those Fen sets. You need someone to be in parental control of your spending limit cause you're dumb as a box of rocks.

Id also watch that elitist tongue of yours if you wanna bring it my way I have np snatching it out.

[gigawuts]

Those are recommended for poor people who want good s-def.

It's basically the poor man's version of the Fen Set which I recommended if you're rich =P

As for the topic at hand. Why not be both TC?

I have a full glass cannon skill tree (Hu/Fi) and, I have tank HP and defense.

HP 1332 s-def 1316

I use the new ruins sword with Vol/Po3/Sta3/Sta Boost. Blue Fen Set with the same 4 affixes as my sword.

I haven't died in like 2 months and I kill things just as fast as any "leet" glass cannon. Best of both worlds IMO.

That said, you should play the way you want. If you're interested in a TRUE full tank build by all means do it. This game is easy enough for you to play whatever you want so I don't see a problem with it ^^

I've had a few questions about this, but never actually had anyone to ask them. You seem to be in the know with this sort of thing so hopefully you can help me out.

The 6* spike set has 50 HP per unit, and then another 50 for a set bonus. That's 200 hp on top of everything else they offer. The fen set doesn't even come close...and its sdef isn't enough to compensate. So what's the advantage? The other def and looking pretty?

[Aine]

The excube set (Dot C) actually outclasses the Fen set.

[spoiler-box]http://i.imgur.com/ui2COiN.gif[/spoiler-box]

The chart on the left shows damage taken with no affixes, the chart on the right shows damage taken with affixes adjusted for minimum 120PP and the rest poured into HP.

Red numbers indicated damage resulting in instant death, blue numbers indicate damage that kills in two hits, yellow numbers indicate damage that takes 3 or more hits to kill.

[gigawuts]

Interesting, thanks for linking that. Is there any way to see the striking resist value ingame, or is it hidden? I haven't looked super hard, but anywhere I have looked hasn't shown it.

edit: Also, I'm interested in the ドｃヴェント set, but can't find much about it. All I can guess is it's a mix of the dot c and vent series, is that right? Because that doesn't seem right based on the stats of the vent series.

[Aine]

Nope, it's hidden. You have to do damage tests to calculate it. Part of the reason Dot C is so good is because it has 6% damage resist per unit.

[Walkure]

I normally hate hidden specifics like that, but that's pretty amusing.

Would explain why lucky rise set was so much bulkier than I expected from stats alone!

[Saffran]

Giga > it's the Vent Set (which has only 2 pieces) + the corresponding (missing) Dotgamma piece of gear. For poor people that can't afford all 3.

[gigawuts]

Ah, that's what I thought. I actually like its more even distribution of tankiness, but I'm too lazy to affix anything else. That's the best part of the dot c set - it's pre-affixed.

[Gama]

i wonder if that unit is suitable for a TE/FO, if not anything good or similar?

[Shinmarizu]

I've been seriously considering the Dot c set for Techer for awhile now. No soul fixes for technique; as is. This might be the few posts that finally seal the deal for me - this gives me one set of armor for 3 classes. Thanks all.

[gigawuts]

I've been seriously considering the Dot c set for Techer for awhile now. No soul fixes for technique; as is. This might be the few posts that finally seal the deal for me - this gives me one set of armor for 3 classes. Thanks all.

I did this for a long time as a te/fo male cast. Good times were had when AQ's launched and everyone kept dying but the force. Right in the thick of it, the only thing that actually threatened me was shignoguns.

[Husq]

i wonder if that unit is suitable for a TE/FO, if not anything good or similar?

You mean the dot set from excube store? I used it to level my te/fo to lvl60. It is pretty useful if you like to jump into the mobs and cast zondeel, as one or two hits won't kill you.

[Zenobia]

I did this for a long time as a te/fo male cast. Good times were had when AQ's launched and everyone kept dying but the force. Right in the thick of it, the only thing that actually threatened me was shignoguns.

>Gets a party for AQ im TE/FO other three HU/FI RA/HU FO/FI hell yeah.
>We go plays City AQ we got dis!
>Big as wave of Darkers Mantis, Dagans, Laser everywhere first 5 secs!
>All three die accept me and I commence ass rapage!
> Kills err thing and mops the floors clean because to BETA to ress em.
>I GOT WITH THE FUCKING TERRORIST!

[gigawuts]

Using those units is epic with territory burst and an umbra stick, I did that exclusively for like a month and got two teammates to buy new skilltrees specifically to go lightning.

Everything died but us.

[Omega-z]

Well, Dot C shine's for it's HP and cheapness to upgrade then it's striking resist's at the moment.

[OppaiMaya]

You missed me and Giga's point completely also that fen set is worst sense it rq the full Lambda set for the bonuses you're better off with he range set. Also you're a full glass cannon then why do you have sta 3 on your units instead of pow3? You haven't died in 2 months but lemme tell ya I can't remember the last time I died. Why? Cause i melt enemies in less than secs and judging by your full sta 3 affixes I know I would kill faster than you not to even boast.

If you're the type of person who gets hit a lot yeah get sta 3 on your units but the game is about offense so I'll stick to my lucky Rise s def ones and my Ragne set. Also yes I am Rich sense you wanna bring that up to and I found the last piece of the Fen set never bought not even one piece so yay me my money spared<3! Also if you want tips on how to spend your money hollah at me because you for damn sure made a poor investment getting those Fen sets. You need someone to be in parental control of your spending limit cause you're dumb as a box of rocks.

Id also watch that elitist tongue of yours if you wanna bring it my way I have np snatching it out.

I have no clue why you took such a rude attitude but I think you misunderstood me. Not only that but you resorted to insults for no real reason. I guess I shouldn't be surprised though ^^; If you want to have a mature debate with me please come correct next time. Don't come here insulting me for no reason next time. It almost sounds like you took my comment as personal attack.

Also, you misread my post. My unit's have Vol Soul/Power3/Stamina3/and Stamina Boost (Same as my sword). They have 4 affixes (In case that wasn't clear enough or you) I think I should have made that a little clearer.

To answer Gigaswut's question. It comes down to user preference I supposed. The fen set has better stats over all.

s-def236/r-def189/t-def141 on top of this it adds 12% reduction to light damage and a 22 S-atk bonus and of course looks (if you care about such things).

So it comes down to all that VS the 125 more HP from the spiky set. Like I said it's a great set for people who care about defense and not have a lot of money. I just happened to have the option to go the other route.

[Xaeris]

That's just the thing though; even if you have the money to fritter into the wind, the Shouldot c set is better than the Fen set in nearly all scenarios. The Shouldot c has a 20 S-Atk set bonus in comparison to the Fen set's 22 S-Atk set bonus, so that's a wash there. The Shouldot c's innate striking resistances more than make up for the difference in S-Def, and the difference between the other two defenses are just kinda whatever. The extra HP on the Shouldot c units make monomates and dimates more effective, as well as raising the threshold for Automate to proc.

Edit: Blah, had a brain fart and forgot that Fen has striking resistance too. Still, 10 S-Def per piece is nothing worth writing home over.

[OppaiMaya]

That's just the thing though; even if you have the money to fritter into the wind, the Shouldot c set is better than the Fen set in nearly all scenarios. The Shouldot c has a 20 S-Atk set bonus in comparison to the Fen set's 22 S-Atk set bonus, so that's a wash there. The Shouldot c's innate striking resistances more than make up for the difference in S-Def, and the difference between the other two defenses are just kinda whatever. The extra HP on the Shouldot c units make monomates and dimates more effective, as well as raising the threshold for Automate to proc.

The fen set has those strike resistances as well. If we are talking about PURE numbers and hiden strike resistances the only thing the spiky set has on the fen units is more HP 125 in this case. That's the ONLY difference. Like I said the Fen set has those hiden strike resistances as well and on top if it has a 12% light resistance. Also over all better stats and sure 2 s-atk may not be MUCH ( wont even make a difference) but the fen set has a higher number period and that's what we are discussing correct?

The real question is. Is 125 HP better or not? Because that's what it comes down to. Also as Gigawutts mention the fen set is "pretty" and I care about those things and money isn't an issue for me so why not?

[Xaeris]

As we saw in Aine's post, that 125 HP makes the Shouldot the better defensive set in terms of pure survival, before you even factor in the greater effectiveness of monomates, dimates and Automate. It's not the poor man's option for defense. It's simply the better one.

[OppaiMaya]

As we saw in Aine's post, that 125 HP makes the Shouldot the better defensive set in terms of pure survival, before you even factor in the greater effectiveness of monomates, dimates and Automate. It's not the poor man's option for defense. It's simply the better one.

Though I have not seen this chart, I can't say that I disagree completely with you. Since HP covers the 3 basic types of defense the game offers.

To me the fen set is more a "status" thing. Again if you don't care about looks and vanity type things then by all means go with the spiky set.

The only thing i wanted to clear was the misunderstanding of the actual fen units themselves. They are better on paper when it comes to numbers and elemental resistance but have 125 HP less than the spiky set. So again it comes down to user preference. Since both units are awesome.

[gigawuts]

Well, that 125 hp really, really, really helps out. The stat points don't matter all that much - it takes 5 stat points to reduce damage by 1. What really helps is the extra strike resist, which is a percentage-based resistance (I believe), despite adding together. 1 hp allows you to survive 1 more damage, obviously.

So that extra 125 hp is about as good as another 625 def across the board. Sounds crazy, but yeah, raw stats (as in without skill bonuses) are pretty weak.

[OppaiMaya]

Well, that 125 hp really, really, really helps out. The stat points don't matter all that much - it takes 5 stat points to reduce damage by 1. What really helps is the extra strike resist, which is a percentage-based resistance (I believe), despite adding together. 1 hp allows you to survive 1 more damage, obviously.

So that extra 125 hp is about as good as another 625 def across the board. Sounds crazy, but yeah, raw stats (as in without skill bonuses) are pretty weak.

I think that's WAY too crazy for only 125 HP. But I get your point since HP is the best form of defense in this game.

Like I told the other guy though, the fen set is more of a luxury item. Also in my opinion it's more balanced and it helps you take light damage better because of the 12% resistance to light (aside from the strike resistance that it has) So if you love the sanctum AQ this can be helpful there as well. That said I happen to like luxury items and looks matter to me that's why I took this route. Now I know a lot of people don't like this mentality and automatically assume that i'm a terrible player. But trust me, i'm far better than most foreigners on this server. It's not me being an asshole or being boastful, it's the plain truth. I've played with many foreigners in b20 and most are terrible. This is not an insult, but just a plain fact. You can't sit here and tell me that i'm wrong.

Anyway's glad we came to an agreement. See? We can have a decent discussion without resorting to childish 12 year old insults like the other guy lol. Not to mention we even learned a few things!

Now I will totaly recommend the spiky set to people (especially if they are low on money). I already have the fen set and 1332 HP so there's no point in switching plus I love my luxury items =P

[gigawuts]

Ha ha they can be fun if you're already overkilling everything.

[Zenobia]

I have no clue why you took such a rude attitude but I think you misunderstood me. Not only that but you resorted to insults for no real reason. I guess I shouldn't be surprised though ^^; If you want to have a mature debate with me please come correct next time. Don't come here insulting me for no reason next time. It almost sounds like you took my comment as personal attack.

Also, you misread my post. My unit's have Vol Soul/Power3/Stamina3/and Stamina Boost (Same as my sword). They have 4 affixes (In case that wasn't clear enough or you) I think I should have made that a little clearer.

To answer Gigaswut's question. It comes down to user preference I supposed. The fen set has better stats over all.

s-def236/r-def189/t-def141 on top of this it adds 12% reduction to light damage and a 22 S-atk bonus and of course looks (if you care about such things).

So it comes down to all that VS the 125 more HP from the spiky set. Like I said it's a great set for people who care about defense and not have a lot of money. I just happened to have the option to go the other route.

No I did not mis-read your post not at all you said you were a glass cannon therefore I asked why do you have sta 3 on your UNITS when the game is clearly about offense and I also rounded it off by saying "If you're the type of person who gets hit a lot then yeah go sta 3 on your units". How did you miss that I do not know.

Btw you were rude yourself in your bias comment about ppl being poor and advising buying the fen set which is also crap so I wouldn't play the hypocrisy role if I were you, I don't boast about how much I have even though you insisted I told you but I hate boasting if anything that's what Elitist do keep it to yourself. Likewise if you are going to debate and want a mature conversation think before you post choose your words wisely.

And enough of comparing the S def units because ppl don't have enough money cause thats not why most use em. The lucky rise set on those units+the def boost and Hp make them good for rare hunting and I have gotten plenty of rare 10*'s that sold for some hellah cash rewards. Also Ex cubes are way to easy to get in this game you would do well to know that.

This also applies to me as we both got off on a rocky start I have had bad exp with ppl like that personal reason aside.

[OppaiMaya]

No I did not mis-read your post not at all you said you were a glass cannon therefore I asked why do you have sta 3 on your UNITS when the game is clearly about offense and I also rounded it off by saying "If you're the type of person who gets hit a lot then yeah go sta 3 on your units". How did you miss that I do not know.

Btw you were rude yourself in your bias comment about ppl being poor and advising buying the fen set which is also crap so I wouldn't play the hypocrisy role if I were you, I don't boast about how much I have even though you insisted I told you but I hate boasting if anything that's what Elitist do keep it to yourself. Likewise if you are going to debate and want a mature conversation think before you post choose your words wisely.

And enough of comparing the S def units because ppl don't have enough money cause thats not why most use em. The lucky rise set on those units+the def boost and Hp make them good for rare hunting and I have gotten plenty of rare 10*'s that sold for some hellah cash rewards. Also Ex cubes are way to easy to get in this game you would do well to know that.

This also applies to me as we both got off on a rocky start I have had bad exp with ppl like that personal reason aside.

Well my equipment has 4 affixes so why not? Sure I could have gone the ability 3 route, but this topic is about tanking if i'm not mistaken, that's why I decided to give my 2 cents on the matter since I have a glass cannon skill tree but tanky equipment (i'm still more offense though). If you took it as boasting then that's your problem. I just thought I would be a good addition to the topic at hand since i'm the best of both worlds IMO. As for getting hit a lot I don't think so. My death record shows this. I'm at 310 deaths been playing the game since the closed beta test (over a year now) soooo yeah it's safe to say that I don't get hit a lot nor die often. It happens it's just rare when it does =P

As for the fen set being "crap" lulz ok. I'm sure anyone here who knows will totally disagree with that comment. It's not "crap" not by a long shot. It's just expensive.

Lastly, that's all preference as well. I prefer the standard soul/power 3 etc etc combo than lucky rise/dex on my units, but that's just me :)

Also, in case you didn't read my other post I clearly acknowledge the power of the 6 star units and i'm in no way bashing them. I even said that i would recommend them to people.

In the end of the day though, i will stick to my guns. I still think the fen set is the "best" and of course I love the vanity part of them as well. Anyway's for future comments/debates I would appreciate it if you didn't take out your frustrations out on me just because I resemble a certain "elitis" person.

[Zenobia]

Well my equipment has 4 affixes so why not? Sure I could have gone the ability 3 route, but this topic is about tanking if i'm not mistaken, that's why I decided to give my 2 cents on the matter since I have a glass cannon skill tree but tanky equipment (i'm still more offense though). If you took it as boasting then that's your problem. I just thought I would be a good addition to the topic at hand since i'm the best of both worlds IMO. As for getting hit a lot I don't think so. My death record shows this. I'm at 310 deaths been playing the game since the closed beta test (over a year now) soooo yeah it's safe to say that I don't get hit a lot nor die often. It happens it's just rare when it does =P

As for the fen set being "crap" lulz ok. I'm sure anyone here who knows will totally disagree with that comment. It's not "crap" not by a long shot. It's just expensive.

Lastly, that's all preference as well. I prefer the standard soul/power 3 etc etc combo than lucky rise/dex on my units, but that's just me :)

Also, in case you didn't read my other post I clearly acknowledge the power of the 6 star units and i'm in no way bashing them. I even said that i would recommend them to people.

In the end of the day though, i will stick to my guns. I still think the fen set is the "best" and of course I love the vanity part of them as well. Anyway's for future comments/debates I would appreciate it if you didn't take out your frustrations out on me just because I resemble a certain "elitis" person.

You don't know your sets at all Ragne set by far has better stat gains sense it doesn't really RQ a wep to take advantage of it and ragne answerer only gives it what 4-6 more pp?. With Fen sense you need the lambda weaps to obtain its set bonus that means further gimping yourself with those in order to get the most out of them again you completely disregarded that, and I do not know what it will take for you to get it through your head.

I know you clearly supported it I was just commenting off of you latter post not the former maybe yoiu should read what I quoted next time. I played sense closed beta myself but that doesn't mean a damn thing really only mean you played it before any other person and got to know some of the in's and out's nothing to go home bragging about and if I die its because im putting my neck out on the line for the party to help ress that one or 2 ppl and my Death counts are horrendously low not that I care as it doesn't mean anything. I said you biasedly boasted and the reason is because how others may take it idc what ya do just don't act like you have to bring it to my attention.

On the fen set I earned mine all dropped for me and the Ragne set..yeah better than that. Maybe you missed when I said I have both the s def units and Ragne set which have my fav affixes of Power 3 Vol sould and poison 3 cause I hardly get hit as HU/FI so HP is not a need for me doesn't mean I need 4 affixes just mean I know how to play my class and spend my money wisely and therefore opt for the best affixes that I would need.

No you don't resemble but it reminds me of a certain person whom I am discussed this very thing over and you're being a prime example because instead of thinking about all possible solutions we think single minded.

[OppaiMaya]

You don't know your sets at all Ragne set by far has better stat gains sense it doesn't really RQ a wep to take advantage of it and ragne answerer only gives it what 4-6 more pp?. With Fen sense you need the lambda weaps to obtain its set bonus that means further gimping yourself with those in order to get the most out of them again you completely disregarded that, and I do not know what it will take for you to get it through your head.

I know you clearly supported it I was just commenting off of you latter post not the former maybe yoiu should read what I quoted next time. I played sense closed beta myself but that doesn't mean a damn thing really only mean you played it before any other person and got to know some of the in's and out's nothing to go home bragging about and if I die its because im putting my neck out on the line for the party to help ress that one or 2 ppl and my Death counts are horrendously low not that I care as it doesn't mean anything. I said you biasedly boasted and the reason is because how others may take it idc what ya do just don't act like you have to bring it to my attention.

On the fen set I earned mine all dropped for me and the Ragne set..yeah better than that. Maybe you missed when I said I have both the s def units and Ragne set which have my fav affixes of Power 3 Vol sould and poison 3 cause I hardly get hi as HU/FI so HP is not a need for me doesn't mean I need 4 affixes just mean I know how to play my class and spend my money wisely and therefore opt for the best affixes that I would need.

No you don't resemble but it reminds me of a certain person whom I am discussed this very thing over and you're being a prime example because instead of thinking about all possible solutions we think single minded.

Ragne set gives 45 attack across the board but we will focus on S-atk since this is a Hu discussion. Fen set gives you 22 s-atk without having the lambda artistan. With the lambda artistan you get 45 s-atk. Also, why would I want to use an old 8* spear with an attack of 351? for 6 more PP? Oooook!

If you do the math that's 23 s-atk less than the ragne set. You're silly if you think that 23 s-atk will make a significant increase in damage output. When it comes to overall stats though especially when it comes to survival the fen set craps all over the ragne set. Especially since the ragne set doesn't even have any type of resist such as strike resistance/range resistance etc etc.

The defensive properties of the fen set far outclass the ragne set. Unless you care about 23 s-atk...Then go with the ragne set lol.

Also, you assume far too many things this is the reason why we started on a "rocky" road. Maybe you should stop assuming things about me and acting like you know me. It will help.

For example, if I only have 310 deaths that MUST mean that i don't EVER risk my neck to save my teammates right? And you know this because? Exactly. Don't try to switch things around either you were clearly implying that I die a lot and get hit a lot. I simply countered you with my low death ratio. Now you come with "Oh I only die a lot because I risk my neck for my PT members..." lol yeah ok. Again you're assuming too much and for some odd reason you're desperately trying to put this "elitist" stamp on me.

I'm all for supporting my PT members my high def and HP allow me to do this without dying. This IS the prime reason why I love having high stats because it makes it much easier to help out my party members. Of course i'm smart about it too. If someone dies in front of a LVL 60 boosted Big Vardha i'm not just gonna run up and be like here let me heal you!. No i'm going to wait till he fires his huge lazer then on his recovery frames i'll revive the fallen PT member. I'm not going to take free damage just for the sake of taking it either. But if you recklessly risk your life for your party members then that's you not me. That sounds heroic and all, but it can end up being a BAD thing for the whole PT. Imagine they all die then you try to revive them and end up dying too? Guess what Mr Hero you'll end up looking like a scrub.

Anyway's I doubt you and I will be friends, but it's ok. The only thing I ask is that you don't take out your everyday life frustrations out on me because you have some sort of "beef" with me since I remind you of someone you dislike. That's just silly.

[Zenobia]

Ragne set gives 45 attack across the board but we will focus on S-atk since this is a Hu discussion. Fen set gives you 22 s-atk without having the lambda artistan. With the lambda artistan you get 45 s-atk. Also, why would I want to use an old 8* spear with an attack of 351? for 6 more PP? Oooook!

If you do the math that's 23 s-atk less than the ragne set. You're silly if you think that 23 s-atk will make a significant increase in damage output. When it comes to overall stats though especially when it comes to survival the fen set craps all over the ragne set. Especially since the ragne set doesn't even have any type of resist such as strike resistance/range resistance etc etc.

The defensive properties of the fen set far outclass the ragne set. Unless you care about 23 s-atk...Then go with the ragne set lol.

Also, you assume far too many things this is the reason why we started on a "rocky" road. Maybe you should stop assuming things about me and acting like you know me. It will help.

For example, if I only have 310 deaths that MUST mean that i don't EVER risk my neck to save my teammates right? And you know this because? Exactly. Don't try to switch things around either you were clearly implying that I die a lot and get hit a lot. I simply countered you with my low death ratio. Now you come with "Oh I only die a lot because I risk my neck for my PT members..." lol yeah ok. Again you're assuming too much and for some odd reason you're desperately trying to put this "elitist" stamp on me.

I'm all for supporting my PT members my high def and HP allow me to do this without dying. This IS the prime reason why I love having high stats because it makes it much easier to help out my party members. Of course i'm smart about it too. If someone dies in front of a LVL 60 boosted Big Vardha i'm not just gonna run up and be like here let me heal you!. No i'm going to wait till he fires his huge lazer then on his recovery frames i'll revive the fallen PT member. I'm not going to take free damage just for the sake of taking it either. But if you recklessly risk your life for your party members then that's you not me. That sounds heroic and all, but it can end up being a BAD thing for the whole PT. Imagine they all die then you try to revive them and end up dying too? Guess what Mr Hero you'll end up looking like a scrub.

Anyway's I doubt you and I will be friends, but it's ok. The only thing I ask is that you don't take out your everyday life frustrations out on me because you have some sort of "beef" with me since I remind you of someone you dislike. That's just silly.

Read it and learn it cause this is what you're arguing!

Ragne Set: You get the 90 set bonus just from having the all 3 units on something Fen doesn't give you you, and you get the 3 extra pp from the partizan that's it.

http://i.imgur.com/ewZkzr4.png (http://imgur.com/ewZkzr4)
http://i.imgur.com/DN5njkq.png (http://imgur.com/DN5njkq)
http://i.imgur.com/2F7BWI6.png (http://imgur.com/2F7BWI6)
http://i.imgur.com/2UPUrQJ.png (http://imgur.com/2UPUrQJ)
With full set:S-ATK +45 (+90)
R-ATK +45 (+90)
T-ATK +45 (+90)
PP +3 (+6)

Fen Set: Gives S atk+22 and bonus of 45 with all three equipped not very good at all and to furher boost it you need the lambda weps which you alrdy explained you don't use making a blank slate in a sense.

http://i.imgur.com/2aAi10g.png (http://imgur.com/2aAi10g)
http://i.imgur.com/i0rsgDD.png (http://imgur.com/i0rsgDD)
http://i.imgur.com/KQzhFAf.png (http://imgur.com/KQzhFAf)
http://i.imgur.com/7z4EZdr.png (http://imgur.com/7z4EZdr)
http://i.imgur.com/ZmS10Xw.png (http://imgur.com/ZmS10Xw)
http://i.imgur.com/QGvnEqs.png (http://imgur.com/QGvnEqs)
http://i.imgur.com/gM5L1A6.png (http://imgur.com/gM5L1A6)

First and foremost I said the partizan only gives you 3 extra pp NEVER SAID YOU HAD TO USE IT yeah you're blind. You get 45 from ONLY ONE OF EITHER RAGNE PEICE YOU PUT ON you get the 90+ from the full set effect gawd how single minded can you be the same applies to Fen set are you sure you did your math right?

Okay sense when and where id I say anywhere in my post saying because of you rlow death count that means mine is better than yours? I said the only time I die or would die is if I stuck my neck out trying to save such and such party member which happens rarely because of how fast enemies die. You never countered me you only gave me an insensitive to say what I said about my death count and the scenario that follows it. The only person assuming right now is you and you're def showing it.

Here is the scenario just because someone dies that doesn't me you just auto run and try to ress them I never said that at all. There could be many situations where you can't be in control of how the enemy decides to do things or atk a certain person because that person died and therefore lost the aggro. A map dose not show you a enemies atk projectiles on map and by map I mean Radar and Vardha is the only exception as his missiles are detailed by warning beeps and the target reticules on the ground please do not try to educate me on something I alrdy know im way ahead of you. Also Vardhas Cannon does crap damage to me if I wanted to go and rush and heal someone and see his cannon charging up I can just cool and take the hit and go on bout my business cause im good on hp.

Sometimes you have to put your neck out there and think fast because things like AQ's TA's and EXQ have penalties where if the whole party dies its over or you lose your Rank which nets you lesser drops. Also yup scrub comment? Tell me when did I ever call you anything of the sort? Yeah and you tell me not to call you an elitist? Honey im hardly anything in that category and if you wanna see that come hollah at me if not this is the only thing we will be doing. I've alrdy killed all bosses without taking damage Solo Yolo I can even Solo AQ's and I do that when im bored yes lvl 60 and up. I can safely say I know a lot of ppl who know how I perform and know my status as far as HU/FI is concerned ty and I have no need to state that to you, "You a person who is so opinionated on everything ignoring the general rule and making bold assumptions on things you fully never did on pen and paper.

Also I don't hold grudges on ppl whom I have had conflicts I simply drop it because that was then this is now. So yeah we can be friends but if you're gonna be that person who holds grudges then so be it lets go on our merry way.

[OppaiMaya]

I will ignore the rest of your post and just focus on the ragne set vs fen set.

Because i don't mind having to admit that i'm wrong. Ima give you the benefit of the doubt too. Right now i'ma go buy the full ragne set.

I don't ever remember it giving me a FULL 90 s-atk r-atk -t-atk. I used it for like 4 months too. The only thing it gave me was 45 across the board. It only gave me the extra 45 if I used that old 8* spear.

But for the sake of this argument. Ima go buy a ragne set and test this myself.

[Zenobia]

I will ignore the rest of your post and just focus on the ragne set vs fen set.

Because i don't mind having to admit that i'm wrong. Ima give you the benefit of the doubt too. Right now i'ma go buy the full ragne set.

I don't ever remember it giving me a FULL 90 s-atk r-atk -t-atk. I used it for like 4 months too. The only thing it gave me was 45 across the board. It only gave me the extra 45 if I used that old 8* spear.

But for the sake of this argument. Ima go buy a ragne set and test this myself.

Here is the point Ragne gives the full set effect with all three pieces you get 45 across the board you need Ragne answer to get the 90+ Fen set you don't get the 45 with full set because you need the lambda weps to get that 45+ and thats why Ragne set is better because it doesn't require you to further impact your dps why by wearing a low tear all class wep(Including you have no other weap better than that all class in which case you do) That was my argument the whole entire time and the one thing you kept missing.

[forbs]

Just wanted to pop in to point out that someone would pick Fen set over LR simply because you can affix it with whatever you want. Picking LR set also means you lose out on 180 S attack by not having offensive affixes. If you're saying those 180 attack don't matter then I will ask: what the hell DOES matter when everyone pretty much has the same HU tree. :V

On the topic of Ragne set vs Fen. It's a matter of S def vs Hp. I'm sure that Fen is statistically better defensive wise anyways so the only thing you get from Ragne is a few hp and +45 attack. Then again, I'm sure that you'll enjoy your 900 S def when and if you do get hit. :P

[OppaiMaya]

Here is the point Ragne gives the full set effect with all three pieces you get 45 across the board you need Ragne answer to get the 90+ Fen set you don't get the 45 with full set because you need the lambda weps to get that 45+ and thats why Ragne set is better because it doesn't require you to further impact your dps why by wearing a low tear all class wep(Including you have no other weap better than that all class in which case you do) That was my argument the whole entire time and the one thing you kept missing.

You missed my point.

I'll make it as simple as it can be.

3 piece Fen Set give you 22 s-atk are we clear on that? Add the Lambda weps and you get an extra 23 making it a 45 S-atk boost got it?

3 piece Ragne Set gives you 45 atk across the board. Add the 8* ragne spear and it turn it into 90.

However for the sake of this argument lets ignore the lambda weapons and the ragne spear ok?

This leaves us with 22 VS 45. So YES the ragne set does provide 23 more s-atk. But is that really a win? Does 23 s-atk really improve your damage output by a significant amount? NO! it doesn't.

Also you contradict yourself quite often. You keep saying that in order to get the full 45 s-atk on the fen set you need to downgrade to the lamda weapons which is TRUE but this is also true for the ragne set. If you want the 90 s-atk you must use a VERY inferior spear making your whole argument a moot point.

This is why i'm only focusing on the bonuses that you get from having only the 3 units and not their corresponding weapons. Because it's more realistic this way.

No one is going to use the 8* ragne spear just to get 45 more s-atk when they can use a FAR better spear.

This goes for the fen units as well. No one is going to use a Lambda Artistan over one of the many new swords.

So in the end it simply comes down to this.

22 s-atk VS 45 S-atk. If losing 23 s-atk by using the Fen units then by all means USE the ragne set...But be warned 23 s-atk is nothing.

[Zenobia]

You missed my point.

I'll make it as simple as it can be.

3 piece Fen Set give you 22 s-atk are we clear on that? Add the Lambda weps and you get an extra 23 making it a 45 S-atk boost got it?

3 piece Ragne Set gives you 45 atk across the board. Add the 8* ragne spear and it turn it into 90.

However for the sake of this argument lets ignore the lambda weapons and the ragne spear ok?

This leaves us with 22 VS 45. So YES the ragne set does provide 23 more s-atk. But is that really a win? Does 23 s-atk really improve your damage output by a significant amount? NO! it doesn't.

Also you contradict yourself quite often. You keep saying that in order to get the full 45 s-atk on the fen set you need to downgrade to the lamda weapons which is TRUE but this is also true for the ragne set. If you want the 90 s-atk you must use a VERY inferior spear making your whole argument a moot point.

This is why i'm only focusing on the bonuses that you get from having only the 3 units and not their corresponding weapons. Because it's more realistic this way.

No one is going to use the 8* ragne spear just to get 45 more s-atk when they can use a FAR better spear.

This goes for the fen units as well. No one is going to use a Lambda Artistan over one of the many new swords.

So in the end it simply comes down to this.

22 s-atk VS 45 S-atk. If losing 23 s-atk by using the Fen units then by all means USE the ragne set...But be warned 23 s-atk is nothing.

I never cast's your point aside and that was my general point yes Ragne set beats Fen set yes by 23 more ofc with current affixes Power 3 Vol soul and stamina on all said 3 Ragne pieces back this up witht eh skill tree provided from HU Fury stance fury combo boost and JA bonuses and Fi stances One could argue Rgane set takes the win.

PS; That extra stuff about affixes and stances and what not I just threw that in there as an extra. No I wasn't contradicting myself I personally told you twice that in order to get the full set of 90 you need the partizan which no1 will use and for fen you need the lambda weps which no1 will do that's why I said the ragne set was better regardless of being offset with the partizan.

But yeah that's about the jist of it.

[OppaiMaya]

Lmao, thank the heavens we finally understood each other lol.

Now I know you didn't mean anything by throwing in the affixes etc etc, but that goes for the fen set too. Which comes back to our main point. 22 VS 45.

Now I just want to add a personal note to this. Coming from someone with a ragne set of of Vol Soul/Power III/ Stamina III/ Stamina Boost when I made the switch to the fen units which I also affixed with the exact same affixes the first thing i did was test my new defensive powers.

Long story short I was impressed as hell. I was seriously taking half the damage that I normally took with the ragne set. the difference was night and day. Attacks that would do like 200+ damage would do like 95 damage only.


So now if you take the time to look at it MY WAY for a sec this was a huge gain for me. Sure I lost 23 s-atk, but honestly I didn't even feel it. Infact I was doing the same damage I did before lol.

[Vandread]

From what I could tell from looking on the japanese wiki, Fen beats Ragne as Fen units have a higher Blow Resist %. Just going by the comments there on the pages for the rear units.

What this actually means is that you'd have to come up with 2 different builds and literally try out the damage intake based on % of HP taken - which means that you're not looking at HP anymore, but EHP (effective HP). Damage mitigation is simply different between the units, even if they would have similar defense numbers (which they don't).

It depends on how you look at things, how you define 'to tank'. If it means having damage mitigation, then Fen beats out Ragne hands down. Reason for that being that it simply has that higher Blow Resist %. However, if you have shitty HP, then Ragne might beat out Fen because of it giving more HP. Although with just 45 HP bonus... heh.

But that is one side of the coin, because the above could very well be based on the typical tank-archetype in MMO games - simply outlasting opponents to 'win'. There's also a sort of "DPS-tank", in which case you've actually re-defined the entire concept of tanking in general. The former more or less ignores damage output, while having utility skills to maintain aggro. The latter (the DPS tank) simply could be an extremely high DPS character which simply holds aggro because it beats harder than anyone else. Does it make it a tank? In the truest concept, yes, because its taking the hits so no-one else has to. But does it actually tank? Not necessarily, that depends on your own definition and concept of what tanking actually is.

One could say the same here. Ragne would be more geared towards people that slant more towards DPS tanks while Fen is more for the classical tank. Though, the difference here is so minimal that if you really want to, you can fulfill either role with either of 'em.

So in that regard, it's pretty much anyone's pick. Ragne is better for output (sort of), while Fen is better for mitigating incoming.

Just my 2c.

[Zenobia]

Lmao, thank the heavens we finally understood each other lol.

Now I know you didn't mean anything by throwing in the affixes etc etc, but that goes for the fen set too. Which comes back to our main point. 22 VS 45.

Now I just want to add a personal note to this. Coming from someone with a ragne set of of Vol Soul/Power III/ Stamina III/ Stamina Boost when I made the switch to the fen units which I also affixed with the exact same affixes the first thing i did was test my new defensive powers.

Long story short I was impressed as hell. I was seriously taking half the damage that I normally took with the ragne set. the difference was night and day. Attacks that would do like 200+ damage would do like 95 damage only.


So now if you take the time to look at it MY WAY for a sec this was a huge gain for me. Sure I lost 23 s-atk, but honestly I didn't even feel it. Infact I was doing the same damage I did before lol.

Oh totally lol different strokes for different folks lol no harm in that. Pretty much mis communication when we were talking about the same thing the entire time from reading back we just kinda bumped to many heads LMFAO! Night and Day is Fine analogy for the Ragne and Fen set actually.

@Vandread that was a damn good 2c of an explanation der guy.

[XPKun]

Well, that bit about Dot C was interesting. At first, the low r/tdef irked me but yeah, the HP bonus is a lot and may compensate for it. Now I'm considering getting that LR set and replacing the affixes with the usual Vol+Pow3+StamBoost.

P.S. Too many keyboard warriors in here determined to create unnecessary arguments instead of just taking the high road.

[Zenobia]

Well, that bit about Dot C was interesting. At first, the low r/tdef irked me but yeah, the HP bonus is a lot and may compensate for it. Now I'm considering getting that LR set and replacing the affixes with the usual Vol+Pow3+StamBoost.

P.S. Too many keyboard warriors in here determined to create unnecessary arguments instead of just taking the high road.

It was informative actually we just bumped heads RJ. Nothing good to say don't say it all or someone might argue that, not that I want to but its advise you can smart and take it or be ignorant pick your poison.
There are many cross roads to consider not just one and besides you aren't an active communist here either you only made that account here for one reason best to get what ya came for and high tail it.

[OppaiMaya]

To further add a little more to the story of units and s-def etc etc.

We actually do have some units that actually give 90 attack across the board. I'm talking about the new 11* units from the trade shop.

The new hunter ones give 177/211/177 5% Fire protection 30 HP and 2 PP. The set gives 90 attack across the board (Nice) and 15% more fire damage and on top of that they are also strike resistant which is % based like the fen set and spiky set.

Those units are pretty attractive IMO. Especially if you are a hunter that uses a Gun Slash as a side arm that extra 90 R-atk can be useful ^^

I wouldn't mind rocking those bad boys actually...However getting the whole set will take forever lol.

[Zenobia]

To further add a little more to the story of units and s-def etc etc.

We actually do have some units that actually give 90 attack across the board. I'm talking about the new 11* units from the trade shop.

The new hunter ones give 177/211/177 5% Fire protection 30 HP and 2 PP. The set gives 90 attack across the board (Nice) and 15% more fire damage and on top of that they are also strike resistant which is % based like the fen set and spiky set.

Those units are pretty attractive IMO. Especially if you are a hunter that uses a Gun Slash as a side arm that extra 90 R-atk can be useful ^^

I wouldn't mind rocking those bad boys actually...However getting the whole set will take forever lol.

Yeah they are tasty annnnnndddddd im still working on them myself actually would be nice to don those soon >.>.

[Syklo]

When we discuss tanking, we mean in-game damage tanking.

Not forum reputations, so shut up and move on, please.

[XPKun]

It's cute though. :(

EDIT: On topic, I'll wait til Episode 2 comes before I make those units. I hope sega finds the good sense to actually give melee players units on par with other classes.

[MetalDude]

It's cute though. :(

EDIT: On topic, I'll wait til Episode 2 comes before I make those units. I hope sega finds the good sense to actually give melee players units on par with other classes.

I mean if you genuinely think so. I'm just so used to it in the context of a lot of other games that all I can think of is adolescents that need a good punch in the face.

[SquashDemon]

Oh PSOW you silly little moo-cow, why can't I ever leave you?

Anyways, as far as tanking goes, I do it fairly often...I guess, do you count if I'm mostly just killing things before they hit my force/ranger/gunner partners?

Preferred method is maxxed Iron Will, level 5 guard Stance, no automate, I have a mag for that.
Gather with warcry, group with zondeel, then flinch with Nova Strike

Oh, yeah, being a Hutecher/Huforce is important for my method.

Humars Yo.