Sub-Class EXP?

[Shinamori]

So, look at the roadmap, it appears it may have been a rumor?
http://bumped.org/psublog/

[HIT0SHI]

Welp, time to lv up braver as a main :/

[jooozek]

its just prolly like 10% of what you main class gets and that penalised by the level difference penalty

[WBMike]

So, look at the roadmap, it appears it may have been a rumor?
http://bumped.org/psublog/


No it's not a rumour

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P7vIuE9tYJM (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P7vIuE9tYJM&feature=youtu.be)

Skip to 2:11

Roadmaps never tell you everything that's coming in an update. It's just a basic outline.

[Shinamori]

It's in Japanese, so I have no idea what I'm looking at.

[Bellion]

Look for "サブクラスにも経験値が" at 2:11 at the top.

[Khorin]

Any idea how much EXP they will actually give to the subclass?

[The Walrus]

Nope.

[Zorafim]

Doesn't really effect me, but it's still a nice change. I mean, I guess it saves me some time, since I'll get more exp than before. But mainly, I'm glad people who don't have time to work on alts can keep up with everyone else a little more easily now.

Wait... Considering I use hunter as my sub for almost everything... Does this mean I'll have to use hunter less? Aw, it was my favorite class...

[AgemFrostMage]

Is it going to be a premium feature? I had this idea in a post awhile back =)

[Zenobia]

Actually your class that is subbed will only get 10% exp until it hits lvl 40 after that subclass hits lvl 40 it will no longer gain exp. So for those ppl that alrdy lvl 'ed there classes pass 40 you don't even have to worry about that.

[Shinamori]

Where'd you hear that?

[Zenobia]

Where'd you hear that?

While browsing around some site called shougai pso or some shit.

[Z-0]

I'm roaming around Shougai right now and I can't find your source at all.

Care to link?

edit: nvm, found page ---> http://www.g-heaven.net/topics/2013/06/130626a.html (not actually read it though)
yup, seems valid. :3

[Zenobia]

I'm roaming around Shougai right now and I can't find your source at all.

Care to link?

edit: nvm, found page ---> http://www.g-heaven.net/topics/2013/06/130626a.html (not actually read it though)
yup, seems valid. :3

You dummy lol

EDIT: Seems like sega once again took something totally somewhat useful and fucked it up. Not that it matters though I guess it could serve the new players perhaps.

My bad I should have linked it lol nice piggy back though.

[The Walrus]

GG Sega. You've done it again.

[gigawuts]

oh wow :/

I don't care if we kept getting experience if the sub was at level 60, but come on. Capping it at 40?

[Xaeris]

It stops at 40? That's friggin' stupid. I can offload my TACO experience onto the target class and level up to 40 in no time. Hell, level 40 is exactly when that feature would become most useful, since 40 provides enough SP to make the subclass relatively useful to take into AQ and XQs and the exp curve starts becoming steep enough that COs won't make a sizable dent in it.

Argh, this is the exp "fix" all over again.

[ShadowDragon28]

Shogai is a Fan Blog, similar to Bumped.org. Please don't take their SPECULATION or RUMORS as "fact"....

[Mike]

Shogai is a Fan Blog, similar to Bumped.org. Please don't take their SPECULATION or RUMORS as "fact"....
The information in question here is taken from two gaming mags. That's as truthiest a fact you'll likely get.

[Zenobia]

Shogai is a Fan Blog, similar to Bumped.org. Please don't take their SPECULATION or RUMORS as "fact"....

Better the mod quote you before I do. He summed it up for ya.

[Gardios]

It's an improvement from 0% so yay I guess...???????

I wonder if the EXP is reduced if your sub class is too low to get the full EXP from COs, for example.

[Zenobia]

There is so much we don't know regarding that, that Sega did not outline.

[ReaperTheAbsol]

I'll still get some usage out of this luckily, but I feel frustration for those that can't take advantage of it...

[Omega-z]

It's there to help level Braver class pretty much, otherwise not that useful.

[Coatl]

Most people will just main braver though.

[Zenobia]

Most people will just main braver though.

^Exacta!

[jooozek]

oh, so it is actually 10%? feels bad to be right on the money

[Coatl]

Another disappointing update to look forward to. :/

[Hrith]

Not getting experience once the subclass is capped is a good idea, but 10% and Lv40... :disapprove:

[Courina]

omg nooooooo..... all my class already 50...

[Syklo]

Finally I can unlock gunner without playing RA!

[Dan Maku]

RUINED FOREVERUUUUUUUUUUU! [/joke]

[gigawuts]

Not getting experience once the subclass is capped is a good idea, but 10% and Lv40... :disapprove:

All they'd have to do is change the 40 to 60. I mean, the mechanic is already in place to halt the exp gains. I think it'd be perfect.

Of course, they'll shift this level up later on for "listening to feedback" brownie points - but they'll also shift the cap up.

The gains are so miniscule that it really wouldn't be a good main way to level a class past 40. But that's not the point - the point of exp on your subclass is that it's still something.

I mean, fuck. All my classes have been capped at once multiple times - and of course they're all past level 40 (and of course I'm going to main braver). By the time level the cap was bumped up to 55 I stopped wanting to main other classes just for potential sub options. With this I could sub in and at least feel good about accomplishing a little bit, but...

This does literally nothing for me.

Man what the F is wrong with sega. They did this on purpose. This is all they do. They take mechanics from better games, strip them down so they don't do what makes them good in other games, and then put them on the features list. What a bunch of jackoffs.

[UnLucky]

But now you can level up all your unwanted classes to lv30 for the bingo!


...when does this go live again?

[Zenobia]

Just tired of these damn lock systems they keep throwing at us.

"Hey guys you can now gain 10% exp for w/e class you have subbed, BUT! once it hits 40 no more for chu~!"

Yeah 10% exp is indeed something, but does it literally need to be cast away upon hitting lvl 40? I certainly don't agree, but Sega logic says nupe.....

Edit:@Unlucky if you're talking about the subclasses gaining 10% exp then that comes once the EP2 update hits on the 17th.

[UnLucky]

It's like only useful if you have NO other sub, so you throw on Hunter/Ranger/Force since they're already unlocked. Otherwise you'd use a sub you've already leveled up for its stats and skills.

Subbing a class because it's useful only really starts at lv30, but then it stops gaining exp at 40? Why, so you end up switching your main class at 60/40 instead of 60/42? You're really going to milk players for that bit of extra playtime as something they don't enjoy as much? You really don't think people would rather play as their main to level up their sub all the way to cap? THAT TAKES LONGER AND IS MORE FUN IT IS LITERALLY WIN/WIN FOR SEGA BUT THEY DON'T FUCKING DO IT THAT WAY

[Zyrusticae]

Well, this is just about as moronic as the XP penalty for being too low a level being as high as it is. No surprises there.

If they backtracked on fixing the XP penalty, it should be no surprise that they wouldn't make it easy to level a subclass...

[gigawuts]

Yeah. As per usual, they add features that strictly benefit new players. And people scoff when I say they only care about new players, since we become disposable the moment we've already bought AC.

[Dnd]

I should be shocked and disappointed by this development, but.. im not lol

[Jakosifer]

You really don't think people would rather play as their main to level up their sub all the way to cap? THAT TAKES LONGER AND IS MORE FUN IT IS LITERALLY WIN/WIN FOR SEGA BUT THEY DON'T FUCKING DO IT THAT WAY

Right? It's pathetically stupid.

It's kind of sad that this is the kind of stuff I've come to expect with everything new that only sounds good while there are no actual details on it. I would rather have an inkling of faith in their decision making, than always have my cynicism switch ready for any new information/idea.

On da real doe gonna make use of this anyway lol

[UnLucky]

Every update you have to keep yourself in check by imagining it will be the worst possible way to implement the new feature.

And then still be let down.

[Z-0]

Something about they want to keep lower level areas occupied by people switching classes and levelling up.

But that doesn't happen, as we can see.

[gigawuts]

Something about they want to keep lower level areas occupied by people switching classes and levelling up.

But that doesn't happen, as we can see.

you know what would keep lower level areas occupied?

if low level rares were useful and didn't drop in high level areas

weird concept, I know, but it'd work

this idea feels strangely familiar though...

[Cyron Tanryoku]

Ok so, I skimmed this thread

So basically
Sub class exp was fucked up and SEGA is still a stupid company

am I right

[AgemFrostMage]

Even my monthly subclass EXP pass for AC idea was better, at least there it is no cap and was 20% EXP of client orders, emergency codes, and monsters killed.

[The Walrus]

Ok so, I skimmed this thread

So basically
Sub class exp was fucked up and SEGA is still a stupid company

am I right

Nailed it

[UnLucky]

Something about they want to keep lower level areas occupied by people switching classes and levelling up.

But that doesn't happen, as we can see.

But now you have even less reason to do Normal and Hard.

And even with uncapped subclass EXP, people would do VH MPAs since that's still a horrible grind until SVH (whatever the requirement will be)

[Kitoshi]

They could also have NOT implemented this system, at all.

It's obviously not meant for the people that play 10 hours a day and have almost 6 level 60s.

It's meant for the people that play a few hours a day maybe and don't have time to level 2 classes.

A team mate of mine in example, he only plays on weekends and is a 57/28 ra/hu.
This system would help him a ton.

It's simply meant for people like that. To let them get their sub up a bit while still enjoying their main class.

In short, you are all whining about nothing cause it didn't work out the way you wanted it to work out.


also, isn't this all rumors atm ? like was said in a post earlier.

[jooozek]

i don't know whats worse
sega implementing those slave-driving game mechanics
or the people defending them

[gigawuts]

They could also have NOT implemented this system, at all.

It's obviously not meant for the people that play 10 hours a day and have almost 6 level 60s.

It's meant for the people that play a few hours a day maybe and don't have time to level 2 classes.

A team mate of mine in example, he only plays on weekends and is a 57/28 ra/hu.
This system would help him a ton.

It's simply meant for people like that. To let them get their sub up a bit while still enjoying their main class.

In short, you are all whining about nothing cause it didn't work out the way you wanted it to work out.


also, isn't this all rumors atm ? like was said in a post earlier.

oh cool, nice logic, it's good because that's what it's meant for

and if I run someone over in my car, can I justify it by saying that's what I meant to do?

because as far as I'm aware, someone meaning to do something doesn't necessarily make it good

[Vandread]

So I take it some of you wanna level braver through a non-locked system, exitbursting your asses off and whining for 2 months straight you got nothing to do?

Gotcha.

With Kitoshi on this.

[gigawuts]

So I take it some of you wanna level braver through a non-locked system, exitbursting your asses off and whining for 2 months straight you got nothing to do?

Gotcha.

With Kitoshi on this.

So I take it you are literally Hitler and everything you say and do is literally worse than the holocaust?

Gotcha.

Over the top scarecrows that paint ridiculous pictures of who a person is despite there being no supporting evidence whatsoever are fun.

Actually no, they're not. Don't do that.

[jooozek]

inb4nostalgia goggles
so the only thing in this game to do is levelling? man, hella shitty game

[Kitoshi]

oh cool, nice logic, it's good because that's what it's meant for

and if I run someone over in my car, can I justify it by saying that's what I meant to do?

because as far as I'm aware, someone meaning to do something doesn't necessarily make it good

So, i automatically think it's a good system now ? Because I, unlike most of you, do realise it's not meant as a powerleveling exitburst feature like pretty much everyone hoped it would be ?

Good to know you know what i think of it better then i do!

[Cyron Tanryoku]

If people didn't realize how the system worked they wouldn't complain about it

So yeah

[Vandread]

You gotta admit though that the crying about a system that's being implemented while its still fucking rumours since Shougai doesn't necessarily post facts is fucking ridiculous all the same. Even more-so when no matter how you cut it, it's still an improvement over what you have atm. And I'm guessing that the majority around here has the classes they want to play at 40+ already, hence the crying.

Btw. Using Hitler is not cool. Don't do that? For all you know you coulda hit close to home. I live in the Netherlands.

*shucks*

[The Walrus]

Isn't Shougai pretty reliable usually?

[Cyron Tanryoku]

I don't see it as an improvement
Wow instead of zero exp I get...6

People are still gonna do what they've been doing if this is true

[Walkure]

To be honest, I mind the paltry 10% more than the level cap on the bonuses.

The main benefit is that it advances new players through the lowbie deadzone quicker, and I'm actually all for that. I gave PSO2 a try because my gaming skype group decided to go play it for a while. Out of that group of 11 or so people who actually tried the game or played it beforehand, only half made it to VH, and I'm the only one who got to 60 who wasn't already playing beforehand. The biggest reason is that getting through to VH is a near-unavoidably solo slog in a game that punishes pretty badly for making mistakes while soloing. Guess what newbies make a lot when playing?

Even if you're levelling other classes after getting to 60, it's a slog for entirely different reasons. It becomes just grinding purely for EXP until VH, since nothing drops and nothing is difficult on a 23TE/60FO or a 26RA/60HU. You're not limited by difficulty or anything, you're limited by the spare amount of spawns you get while solo. You don't even have the excitement of a rare drop being anything other than 7-8* NPC fodder.

There's like a million ways to go about trying to fix this issue, and this'd be a start if it wasn't so little so late.

[jooozek]

Isn't Shougai pretty reliable usually?

some people just don't hear stuff they don't want to hear
http://www.pso-world.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2994553&postcount=20

[Coatl]

snip.


The majority of the playerbase are people with at least one lv60 class so yeah, up until you get to VH you'll be soloing most of the time. It is boring, but there's no way around it for new players. I don't see anyway to fix that though besides just having a swarm of new players come in.

[redroses]

They could also have NOT implemented this system, at all.

It's obviously not meant for the people that play 10 hours a day and have almost 6 level 60s.

It's meant for the people that play a few hours a day maybe and don't have time to level 2 classes.

A team mate of mine in example, he only plays on weekends and is a 57/28 ra/hu.
This system would help him a ton.

It's simply meant for people like that. To let them get their sub up a bit while still enjoying their main class.

In short, you are all whining about nothing cause it didn't work out the way you wanted it to work out.


also, isn't this all rumors atm ? like was said in a post earlier.

I also don't play a lot and this system doesn't really help much at all. If you have a main class on a character that is already lv 45+ you can easily get your sub class to lv 40 by just feeding it client orders. Lv 40 is exactly the moment where leveling gets hard because slowly client orders won't help much anymore, especially if your sub reaches lv 45. So getting any kind of exp at that moment would have been awesome and more than helpful.

I really hope they will still consider to change this, because this is beyond stupid.

Edit: Watch SEGA now add that you can't turn in client orders anymore when you switch classes.

[Coatl]

Watch SEGA now add that you can't turn in client orders anymore when you switch classes.

Now THAT would make me mad. :I

[gigawuts]

So, i automatically think it's a good system now ? Because I, unlike most of you, do realise it's not meant as a powerleveling exitburst feature like pretty much everyone hoped it would be ?

Good to know you know what i think of it better then i do!

10% Isn't going to be useful for powerleveling full stop. And, again: I don't care what it's meant for. What it's meant for is bad.


You gotta admit though that the crying about a system that's being implemented while its still fucking rumours since Shougai doesn't necessarily post facts is fucking ridiculous all the same. Even more-so when no matter how you cut it, it's still an improvement over what you have atm. And I'm guessing that the majority around here has the classes they want to play at 40+ already, hence the crying.

Btw. Using Hitler is not cool. Don't do that? For all you know you coulda hit close to home. I live in the Netherlands.

*shucks*

I'm sorry, I just automatically go to the most ridiculous and dumbest thing a person could possibly say to convey the idea that saying things like that is equally dumb and should also not be done.

And, in case you weren't going to click jooozek's link...

The information in question here is taken from two gaming mags. That's as truthiest a fact you'll likely get.

The new feature only works until level 40. So, no, it's not better than what we had before. It's exactly the same. Instead of 0 exp I'll be getting 0 exp. They could have easily set it at level 60 just to block excube gains. I have zero intent of exitbursting. I barely even play the game. I would still like my sub to gain 10% exp so I don't have to go looking for more weapons to use on a class I may not even like, yet would like as a sub. As a cast playing a tech class your options are pretty limited due to your base stats. TE/FO works. FO/TE? God no. Casts haven't got tdef for FO units. This was going to be how I slowly leveled FO. I don't care if it would've taken ages just to get 1 level - it was going to be more than zero. It also would not have required me to get gear to keep my FO from being completely useless while leveling.

I mean, if this is for more casual players do you guys think casual players just stop playing at 40 or what? Because after 40 is when the hard anti-casual work with getting gear and having to put in harder effort to level up begins, not before 40.

[Kitoshi]

I also don't play a lot and this system doesn't really help much at all. If you have a main class on a character that is already lv 45+ you can easily get your sub class to lv 40 by just feeding it client orders. Lv 40 is exactly the moment where leveling gets hard because slowly client orders won't help much anymore, especially if your sub reaches lv 45. So getting any kind of exp at that moment would have been awesome and more than helpful.

I really hope they will still consider to change this, because this is beyond stupid.

Edit: Watch SEGA now add that you can't turn in client orders anymore when you switch classes.

I can't say that i agree with the system either, granted off course all the information in/on shougai is true.

An idea I personally had was to still make the exp limited in gain but in example on level 1 you gain 100 % of the exp, or 75 %, or pick your preferred number, and as the levels progress on the sub the exp gained goes down bit by bit.
This way you can still get to cap with the subclass exp it will just take more time to do so.

Cap it on level 60/level cap off course without the ability to gain ex cube exp.


But sadly this is Sega, and Sega will always be Sega.


Level 40 does open up falz and V.hard MPA's though, even though you have quite a hefty exp penalty in the first 5 levels it's still very doable if you combine it with an exp ticket of some sorts.

[EvilMag]

40-45 IMO is the worst since VH MPAs are pretty much dead thanks to AQs (You can find N and H MPAs) even if you did Falz VH, you're getting an exp penalty so you better stick to hard falz for exp.

They might as well have VH unlock for you at 45. >_>

[UnLucky]

They could also have NOT implemented this system, at all.You're right, they may as well not have done it at all.

It's obviously not meant for the people that play 10 hours a day and have almost 6 level 60s.

It's meant for the people that play a few hours a day maybe and don't have time to level 2 classes.It's 10%, you're not even going to notice it unless you play 10 hours a day (it's as if you spent one hour on your sub instead!)

A team mate of mine in example, he only plays on weekends and is a 57/28 ra/hu.
This system would help him a ton.Until he hits 60/40, that is.

[NoiseHERO]

I already got all the classes I DO use to 40.....

fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffUCK.

I think it should be like...

at LEAST 10 levels under whatever the current cap is (So up to 60 when the cap becomes 70 and so on.)

But in general even that shouldn't be necessary because it still takes longer leveling a sub, by playing the class you want. <_<

ON THE OTHER HAND, (I haven't read through whatever's going on this thread or some blog or otherwise) If there's no EXP penalties then... maybe power leveling a sub through the the first couple dozen levels wouldn't be so bad... But yeah then it'll be "whatever" pretty quickly.

[Kitoshi]

You're right, they may as well not have done it at all.

It's 10%, you're not even going to notice it unless you play 10 hours a day (it's as if
you spent one hour on your sub instead!)


Until he hits 60/40, that is.

EXACTLY!

So why is everyone crying about this like it's the end of the world ?

Go play that sub for an hour, you get the same effect as if it would have 10 % and level 60.

Sega will be Sega, as i said a few posts back.
We should all be used to how poorly Sega implements things by now.

[Zenobia]

So, i automatically think it's a good system now ? Because I, unlike most of you, do realise it's not meant as a powerleveling exitburst feature like pretty much everyone hoped it would be ?

Good to know you know what i think of it better then i do!

Man oh fucking man I swear I love the people who come in here spouting cynical bullshit.

Dude regardless if you play 5 hours a fucking day you do realize that the surplus amount of exp you get in this game is over the top right? This includes pse burst I dunno about some, but Sega has been pretty damn generous the fuck ton EXP we get no to mention you bastards who came in late get the buffed up ass Koffie CO's i'll be damn if you give me that bs about whining.

You lucky script kiddies pretty much lucked out making your accounts when shit got mellowed(a slight improvement yes in some cases), but other than that, that's all ya got. There are to many reason to fucking clarify why SOME people hit max lvl as fast or not as fast as they do. Some people want rares some people want to do all the CO's, Matter board, EXQ's, AQ's, IDGAF w/e it is you or anyone else does.

My point being it doesn't limit the fact that w/e you're doing you are gaining exp and will eventually hit max cap on said class. Some of us complain because we Sega can do better than what they are now, and I don't know have to clarify on why either to you post lurkers cause it's been explained by a lot and then some.

Honestly dude check yourself because if you think its just a "OMFG im gonna hit max lvl before all of you fuck tards" kinda thing do me a favor get your head out of your ass and go gangnam style your ass out of this topic.

[Kitoshi]

Man oh fucking man I swear I love the people who come in here spouting cynical bullshit.

Dude regardless if you play 5 hours a fucking day you do realize that the surplus amount of exp you get in this game is over the top right? This includes pse burst I dunno about some, but Sega has been pretty damn generous the fuck ton EXP we get no to mention you bastards who came in late get the buffed up ass Koffie CO's i'll be damn if you give me that bs about whining.

You lucky script kiddies pretty much lucked out making your accounts when shit got mellowed(a slight improvement yes in some cases), but other than that, that's all ya got. There are to many reason to fucking clarify why SOME people hit max lvl as fast or not as fast as they do. Some people want rares some people want to do all the CO's, Matter board, EXQ's, AQ's, IDGAF w/e it is you or anyone else does.

My point being it doesn't limit the fact that w/e you're doing you are gaining exp and will eventually hit max cap on said class. Some of us complain because we Sega can do better than what they are now, and I don't know have to clarify on why either to you post lurkers cause it's been explained by a lot and then some.

Honestly dude check yourself because if you think its just a "OMFG im gonna hit max lvl before all of you fuck tards" kinda thing do me a favor get your head out of your ass and go gangnam style your ass out of this topic.

I love how riled up people get on forums :D.

I am not even going to put a proper reply to this cause there is no point on this forum.

You judge as if I been playing this game for a day, so until you stop making moronic assumptions i just can't be arsed.

[Zenobia]

I love how riled up people get on forums :D.

I am not even going to put a proper reply to this cause there is no point on this forum.

You judge as if I been playing this game for a day, so until you stop making moronic assumptions i just can't be arsed.

Sense you bought that up it makes me question just how much you play? My point exactly.

Also saying you're not gonna reply but quote me makes you look real dumb right now. Where do these people pop up from?

[Cyron Tanryoku]

Soon this will become a cheesecake thread

[Zenobia]

Soon this will become a cheesecake thread

Whats so scary about what you said, funny thing is I'm eating that right now.

[EvilMag]

Too lazy to read this thread but you're saying Sega has taken a really simple concept and they still managed to fuck it up? First the weapon camo system and now THIS? >_>

[UnLucky]

EXACTLY!

So why is everyone crying about this like it's the end of the world ?

Go play that sub for an hour, you get the same effect as if it would have 10 % and level 60.

Sega will be Sega, as i said a few posts back.
We should all be used to how poorly Sega implements things by now.
But I don't want to play my sub for any amount of time, I want to play my main.

[Vandread]

The new feature only works until level 40. So, no, it's not better than what we had before. It's exactly the same. Instead of 0 exp I'll be getting 0 exp. They could have easily set it at level 60 just to block excube gains. I have zero intent of exitbursting. I barely even play the game.
You don't. Others might do this (and I know some actually had planned that shit on 4chan for instance). So what does SEGA do? Put a stop to that before it happens and players run out of content and start bitching again. Was it the right choice? Maybe, maybe not. I personally had rather seen a similar system as Kitoshi had described, but eh... I'll take what I can get.

(Which in my case is nothing, since I rather play Braver as a main and all my other classes are 40+.)

I would still like my sub to gain 10% exp so I don't have to go looking for more weapons to use on a class I may not even like, yet would like as a sub. As a cast playing a tech class your options are pretty limited due to your base stats. TE/FO works. FO/TE? God no. Casts haven't got tdef for FO units. This was going to be how I slowly leveled FO. I don't care if it would've taken ages just to get 1 level - it was going to be more than zero. It also would not have required me to get gear to keep my FO from being completely useless while leveling.
DEX units. OR, maybe - they'll actually come around to realizing they fucked up on casts. Or maybe they'll add in more items for you to use. I personally would not be surprised at all if they added in more stuff like the Liberation rod (goes by SATK instead of TATK - might make it easier for casts), but then for units. With Braver coming one might see an influx in hybrid type units, even more-so if they're planning more hybrid classes like the hunter-ranger that Braver is.


I mean, if this is for more casual players do you guys think casual players just stop playing at 40 or what? Because after 40 is when the hard anti-casual work with getting gear and having to put in harder effort to level up begins, not before 40.
No, but by lvl40 is also the time that, sort of, the game actually kinda starts. Compared to VH, N and H are kinda shite. Bosses like Quartz Dragon or so aren't as nasty on N and H at all (more like a case of whatever, steamroll them). Maybe by that time, Sega intends you to actually play the game instead of making it a leechfest.

If not wanting to play the class, but instead use it as a sub, UNLESS hybrid, you can use all-class weapons. If you're hybridizing, then yes, Sega needs to step up and offer more equipment to use (that is more readily available). As above indicated, maybe that will change with the Braver class (and further classes added).


Also, just to point out - Dengeki magazine had a shot with lvl19 Vopar mobs. If Vopar is added after Sanctum, that may imply that we're seeing an overall change/revamp on mob levels, which would imply CO moblevels are changing. Combined with the other new content it may make leveling a smooth ride all the way up to near-cap.

New players can have their subclass get leeched up as they level their main, without sacrificing progress on their main. Every little bit of XP they gather helps put them outside of Normal already, which in turn unlocks more COs for them to do on their subclass to get full XP on those.

Even moreso, running COs in most cases make you accumulate more XP while doing them than the actual reward, hence feeding COs is kinda counterproductive after a certain point anyway and you're better off actively playing the class regardless.



...

I registered for PSO2 beta and played it since then. Don't assume registration date on these forums means anything at all - because it simply doesn't.

[Kitoshi]

Sense you bought that up it makes me question just how much you play? My point exactly.

Also saying you're not gonna reply but quote me makes you look real dumb right now. Where do these people pop up from?

I'll dignify this with a quick response still.
Just to show you I haven't been playing for only a day.

The fact I quoted you was more the emphasis I was talking specifically to you and not anyone else.
If putting emphasis on who I talk to, on a forum where that can be confusing when so many people want a piece of me for speaking my mind, makes me look dumb.
Then so be it, I guess I am dumb then.

But ya, I guess I have been only playing for a day after all :(.
Sorry to have the balls to speak my mind on such a "tight clique" type forum, it won't happen again! I'll go and suck up to the mr and mrs popular's on this forum like the rest do!

[SPOILER-BOX]http://i.imgur.com/oJzYZQk.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/oFKgdJI.jpg[/SPOILER-BOX]

[Z-0]

k so here we go:

the subclass exp system is stupid. like unlucky said, subclass exp up to 60 would make getting 60/60 SLOWER than if you levelled up both classes manually, even if doing exit bursts all the time (for example, a good exit burst on a vita block will give 500k~1million EXP, which would be 50k~100k EXP to a sub, which is barely nothing). people would keep playing without being "bored" coz they have their sub to work on while hunting things on their main.

/thread

ok?

[MetalDude]

Too lazy to read this thread but you're saying Sega has taken a really simple concept and they still managed to fuck it up? First the weapon camo system and now THIS? >_>

Which is pretty much the central problem. It addresses a considerable problem (having to level up both your main and sub to keep up) in a way that's bafflingly stupid and ineffective.

[ShinMaruku]

Too lazy to read this thread but you're saying Sega has taken a really simple concept and they still managed to fuck it up? First the weapon camo system and now THIS? >_>

Hey man people seem to like and tolerate Sonic Teams fuck ups so don't be shocked. matter of fact expect the very worst.
Or you could take the game as a joke.

[Zenobia]

I'll dignify this with a quick response still. Just to show you I haven't been playing for only a day.

Very good


The fact I quoted you was more the emphasis I was talking specifically to you and not anyone else.
If putting emphasis on who I talk to, on a forum where that can be confusing when so many people want a piece of me for speaking my mind, makes me look dumb.
Then so be it, I guess I am dumb then.

No my question to you was why quote me then say "Im not gonna even reply back?" I didn't ask you "Why did you quote me?" But now I cans ee why you're replying back even though you said you wouldn't...weird.


But ya, I guess I have been only playing for a day after all :(.
Sorry to have the balls to speak my mind on such a "tight clique" type forum, it won't happen again! I'll go and suck up to the mr and mrs popular's on this forum like the rest do!

^The point is when you wanna get your point across do it a civil way god don't come in the thread speaking on the topic and say everyone is bitching and complaining then when people on your case you all of a sudden make yourself out to be a fucking victim. Take your damn lick you fucked up coming in here with the wrong attitude and you know you did.

Don't bring that naive bull around here talking sorry for having the balls to speak your mind...cause guess what there a way to explain yourself than looking like an ass...check yourself.


Also...didn't even bother getting pics of my classes.
[SPOILER-BOX]http://i.imgur.com/vG1Ol09.jpg (http://imgur.com/vG1Ol09)[/SPOILER-BOX]

Im still working on all of them and all of there classes aren't even near max cept for Yuri who is HU/FI 60/60. Those are hours are my ideal playtime in that game and believe me I do more play than I afk if I wanna afk I'll log off don't need people mindlessly whispering me and Im not messaging them back its kinda disrespectful.

[Kitoshi]

No my question to you was why quote me then say "Im not gonna even reply back?" I didn't ask you "Why did you quote me?" But now I cans ee why you're replying back even though you said you wouldn't...weird.

I obviously meant that I was not going to reply to your post with a dignified answer.


^The point is when you wanna get your point across do it a civil way god don't come in the thread speaking on the topic and say everyone is bitching and complaining then when people on your case you all of a sudden make yourself out to be a fucking victim. Take your damn lick you fucked up coming in here with the wrong attitude and you know you did.

You mean as civil as some of you are ? Calling other people Hitler and making other retarded ass comments.
Ya real civil there!


Don't bring that naive bull around here talking sorry for having the balls to speak your mind...cause guess what there a way to explain yourself than looking like an ass...check yourself.


Maybe if more of you weren't so "you aren't popular around here so we are just going to disregard everything you say" that would be possible.

But alas it's not.

So no it had nothing to do with a wrong attitude or whatever.
The fact Z-0 said exactly what I been saying, just in a different more direct manner, does not seem to set anyone off to suddenly start replying to him and dismissing what he says. Why ? He's one of the more "respected" members on the forum, so what he says must be good no ? (no offense to Z-0 off course, just using you as an example to get my point across).

I am also not "playing the victim" or whatever you want to call it, I am just calling it as I am seeing it. And the way I see it is simply that most of you people are so biased towards the opinion of a select few that you do not care about what other people have to say and just instantly dismiss it.

[Vandread]

Related to what Z-0 said:
If you're cutting things up into 'fast methods' to do so; something like 10% of 500k - 1mil XP, would be helpful still to a subclass till around lvl40ish (which is around 1.4mil XP total). Beyond that it's pointless and you should just level the subclass instead.

And by that time you actually can just do that due to the bat-shit insane amount of COs available for you (without all too harsh penalties).

If we're talking about cutting corners and getting a class to 60 as quickly as possible, you'd do just that. Gather up, do exitbursts until it hits 40, maybe a bit higher. Hitting 40 at 1.400.000 XP req ; 50.000-100.000 -> 75.000 avg; 1.400 / 75 ~ 19 exit bursts. That can't take that long. Maybe now people see that this system actually still lets you cut corners so damn much.

After that, force-feed it all the daily COs you could've gathered up by now; those /99 ones, 1.6k each or so on 46, which scales down to ~1.4k each on 40. Yeah, that's not for the casuals to pre-max them, but say they get one and just kinda level around / do COs in those areas, etc. Every little bit of extra XP helps them too.

And once you hit 45 you can hit AQs (although for casuals I'd just say keep doing COs and such).

There's other ways to do this as well, like inverting it and making it a system for those that are capped only. In which case you'd be looking at something like either XP to excubes, or XP to subclass (based on subclass level). However this doesn't help new players at all, and the gap between capped and non-capped would increase further.

Not wanting to play a subclass, I can sort of see that based on certain combinations, but there's also gear that can help remedy the problem slightly. Cast right now is fucked yes, cause it can't get enough TDEF gear for Force, but then there's also the opportunity to use DEX based units. Although Luxe Soir probably won't last that long - depending on player skill - and there's simply nothing really 'better'. But that makes it more an itemization problem than anything else. Even more-so given that there's no non-rare unit to use other than Sub Units (which quite frankly aren't that great).

----------------------------------------------------
(To make it obvious)

So to avoid this whole 'wtf this guy is spinning from left to right' stuff:
I don't like this system either, but I'm trying to see it from SEGA's point of view. And looking at it from their point of view, it makes sense to do it like this. And I still think that new players benefit a lot from this.

If they'd make it better than this, you'd get the situation where people will simply blow through content and get bored shitless again and start complaining. No offense, but people on this forum are quite verbal about that shit. "Not enough content! Nothing to do once you hit cap!" Errr... okay, and then something like subclass should level much faster, so you can be bored even quicker? o.O' Putting it like that, it doesn't make much sense.

Much more the contradiction going on with 'lack of content', then suddenly a 5GB precede download is planned for EP2 (much in line with my personal expectations) and suddenly it's too large... err... I dun quite think you can have the best of both worlds. lol.

It's kinda silly already how SEGA's team's keeping up with all these costumes every 2 weeks. Modeling, UVW unwrapping, texturing, weighting it to the bones, animators possibly needing to make adjustments to bones in animation to make everything work out, etc. I personally am quite amazed to see them keeping all that up.

Contentwise, PSO2 has still seen quite a few additions in the last year as well, not just in areas. Also story. Client Orders. 3 additional classes. Additional difficulty level with appropriate gear. New game modes in form of AQ and XQ. XQ being this limited is annoying yeah, but it's still there to do too. If this isn't fast enough, then I dunno what actually is. As far as I can tell, they're touching on all aspects of the game and addressing matters as they see fit - the only thing they've neglected for a long while are balance issues (and instead try to bandaid-fix it with buffs on skill X Y Z, etc). Gunner has seen some attempt at trying to help the class out in it's shortrange aspect, but Techer's just not much like the 'melee mage' they sorta advertised.

And all that above, is my explanation to my standpoint - people really like whining, to such a degree that it's almost like part of human nature (*cough* it is).



It's in my nature, given that I've actually developed on free-shard servers (grey area up till illegal really, kinda) for games, to look at things from the other side. And that other side matters all the same for this side, because if the other side is borked, then stuff won't make it in in general. I've had my fair share of run-ins with communities, and the only way to help remedy that is to fully explain why - and that's something SEGA isn't doing (not in full anyway) and probably can't do so properly anyway, so it's kinda up to a player to figure out what the point is behind some of their design choices. And frankly, unless you've been at the other side of the fence, that isn't that easy and people simply call it as they see it. Some stuff blows me away too, yet it makes sense kinda after you think a bit more about it.

(And for the record, I've done that free-shard dev-stuff for ... 4-5 years. And no, not professional level of course.)

----------------------------------------------------
(To make it obvious)

@Zenobia:
60 HU, 60 FI, 40 RA, 40 GU, 50 FO, 50 TE.
2234 hours played, close to 490k mobs slain.

Also have 93 ExCubes in my storage - I think around 80 of those I made from overleveling in this current update on my Hunter/Fighter.

Since you addressed me as well, those are my stats currently.
Includes AFK time though, which is well... quite a bit. heh.

[Shinamori]

Riiight. So, anyway, I'd rather have 20% if they are capping it at 40.

[Z-0]

19 exit bursts is quite a long time, and the majority of exit bursts will not give you 500,000 ~ 1 million experience because of, well, RNG. 500,000 ~ 1 million is also using 75% experience tickets WITHOUT experience reduction also, and with a fully efficient party of 4 bolt forces.

These aren't exactly everyday things that happen all the time.

Even looking at it from SEGA's point of view, I'm not sure what they're trying to achieve. People will cap faster if forced to play their sub class as a main, which results in them getting "bored" quicker. Isn't that... against the point of this supposed change?

I'm not sure why you think I'm agreeing with you, because I'm not.

[Zenobia]

I obviously meant that I was not going to reply to your post with a dignified answer.
Glad that cleared that up good no more misunderstandings.


You mean as civil as some of you are ? Calling other people Hitler and making other retarded ass comments.
Ya real civil there!

Who said if people would stop bitching and complaining? Like I said stop playing the victim and take your lick for coming in with the wrong attitude you're trying to be smart, but by no admitting your own faults you look more dumb and that's what you're not getting, and that's what im pointing out.


Maybe if more of you weren't so "you aren't popular around here so we are just going to disregard everything you say" that would be possible.

Not once have I cast away anything you said I pretty much agree, only thing I don't agree with is how you presented your argument in your first post(hence how you worded it)


But alas it's not.

So no it had nothing to do with a wrong attitude or whatever.
The fact Z-0 said exactly what I been saying, just in a different more direct manner, does not seem to set anyone off to suddenly start replying to him and dismissing what he says. Why ? He's one of the more "respected" members on the forum, so what he says must be good no ? (no offense to Z-0 off course, just using you as an example to get my point across).

Go back to your very first post then look at Z-0 tell me what the difference is in how he worded his and how you worded yours then you will have your answer.



I am also not "playing the victim" or whatever you want to call it, I am just calling it as I am seeing it. And the way I see it is simply that most of you people are so biased towards the opinion of a select few that you do not care about what other people have to say and just instantly dismiss it.


Some may and some don't that's how it is just how Sega messes up things and we don't like ofc we are gonna complain, we can suggest in feedback to them how we want it adjusted, but in the end that's how Sega rolls.

[redroses]

This is a problem I have, that playing my sub class bores me to death and I don't want to do it, I don't even want to think about doing it. It bores me so much thinking about leveling my sub class that I almost don't want to play at all anymore. As you need to level your sub class for those stats and if you don't you might not be able to equip what you want. It is no fun at all. So even getting 10% would have made me more than happy because like that I can play my main class and at least feel like something is happening on my sub class.

Also, it is not like you can switch to your sub class for a hour or two and go from lv 45 to 50, leveling is quite slow in this game once you hit lv 45, especially if you can't play often. So I rather put the time I have into my main class whenever I can play.

[Kitoshi]

Glad that cleared that up good no more misunderstandings.



Who said if people would stop bitching and complaining? Like I said stop playing the victim and take your lick for coming in with the wrong attitude you're trying to be smart, but by no admitting your own faults you look more dumb and that's what you're not getting, and that's what im pointing out.



Not once have I cast away anything you said I pretty much agree, only thing I don't agree with is how you presented your argument in your first post(hence how you worded it)



Go back to your very first post then look at Z-0 tell me what the difference is in how he worded his and how you worded yours then you will have your answer.




Some may and some don't that's how it is just how Sega messes up things and we don't like ofc we are gonna complain, we can suggest in feedback to them how we want it adjusted, but in the end that's how Sega rolls.

How am i going to keep the pointless argument going if you are being so reasonable :( you ruined my fun! :D.

And yes, I worded it totally different but in the end I meant the same thing.

In the end we are on the same page though, Sega will be Sega. Good system ? let's leave it to sega to mess it up completely.
Our argument was more or less unrelated to the actual sub class exp system and more about how we disliked things we said.

I will openly admit, obviously, that I definitely could have worded some stuff different, but in the end that is simply how I put it, bluntly.

Shall we now leave this pointless argument behind us and agree on the fact that Sega just does not know how to implement stuff properly ? (even though we kind of agree on that already, as most of us on this forum do)

[Ranmaru]

I'm prolly just gonna main it. I take things slow so I'll have plenty of time to level up some other classes to 40 (I recently got my hunter to 40, going to work on my fighter now)

Eh, not a surprise really. What else can we do, eh?

[Zenobia]

Shall we now leave this pointless argument behind us and agree on the fact that Sega just does not know how to implement stuff properly ? (even though we kind of agree on that already, as most of us on this forum do)

Totally
[SPOILER-BOX]http://i.imgur.com/vw0vyqm.jpg (http://imgur.com/vw0vyqm)[/SPOILER-BOX]

[Vandread]

19 exit bursts is quite a long time, and the majority of exit bursts will not give you 500,000 ~ 1 million experience because of, well, RNG. 500,000 ~ 1 million is also using 75% experience tickets WITHOUT experience reduction also, and with a fully efficient party of 4 bolt forces.

These aren't exactly everyday things that happen all the time.
Then knock it down a tad, make it more bursts or w/e. The first 1-40 may be fast if you still have Koffie COs and such, the second is going to be a bit slower already. Depending on which other class as well as other circumstances (ie no team or so).


Even looking at it from SEGA's point of view, I'm not sure what they're trying to achieve. People will cap faster if forced to play their sub class as a main, which results in them getting "bored" quicker. Isn't that... against the point of this supposed change?
Yes and no.

The entire system is a joke in the sense that it can be used to do certain things quicker in certain situations. New players for example, without a doubt, if they hit lvl30 (20 in some cases of class-combos), they're going to be doing things faster. I'm sure you can see that at the least, cause you got 100% going to the main, and 10% going to the sub. Regardless of how little things are, that's a profit. Said profit continues on, until the subclass hits 40, at which point it should be able to stand on its own two feet as a main class, especially with a subclass backing it again (in case of pure, even more-so).

Players that are capped that can get groups suitable for exit bursting can do things quicker most likely as well. Be it in AQ or out of AQ - doesn't matter that much, since the loss of XP from not being in an AQ could be compensated by sheer volume. Example - the groups jooozek is in (as seen in the thread about rares disappearing or something - dun recall precisely anymore). 12 players with mobs of lower level vs 4 players with mobs of higher level. Volume might compensate for lack of XP per mob.

If you're out of either of these scenarios, then this won't do much no. Other than throw you an alternative means to leveling a subclass (if your main class is strong enough on it's own to not have a significant drop in killspeed). Said subclass could open up alternative styles of play (ie TE/FO vs TE/HU or TE/FI or w/e). It's not so much about the actual effectiveness of a certain combo than of the player wanting to do something different. After that maybe said player would swap to other class combinations, perhaps needing a new mag or skilltree - and suddenly SEGA has what it wants. Might be farfetched a ploy for more money.

Even if that isn't the case, it would still open up an alternative means to leveling a class past certain boring parts (although in my personal experience, 48-52 sucks the most). Maybe perhaps some players would then not be turned off by leveling a certain class further and thus spend more time on the game than they would otherwise.

I'm sure SEGA has a reason behind this, to lure players back in and get them playing longer (on average), and possibly get them to throw some money at 'em.
Of course another reason could be that people got so damn pissed off at the Reverse Bingo card that SEGA's introducing a system to help sort that out, lol. In which case, they just ramped up the trolling potential if they're taking the Lv45 SP CO next...


This is a problem I have, that playing my sub class bores me to death and I don't want to do it, I don't even want to think about doing it. It bores me so much thinking about leveling my sub class that I almost don't want to play at all anymore. As you need to level your sub class for those stats and if you don't you might not be able to equip what you want. It is no fun at all. So even getting 10% would have made me more than happy because like that I can play my main class and at least feel like something is happening on my sub class.

Also, it is not like you can switch to your sub class for a hour or two and go from lv 45 to 50, leveling is quite slow in this game once you hit lv 45, especially if you can't play often. So I rather put the time I have into my main class whenever I can play.
Going by your signature you're using pure melees/ranged/force, in which case allclass weapons might be able to remedy the problem somewhat - at least you'd be playing with a similar style. That doesn't take away the problem entirely though, everyone can see that (and I'd be an idiot if not to affirm that). I'd shove the problem more under the subclass system being quite irk at times, especially when there's barely any decent all-class weapons to use.

Needless to say, then there's still the other crap going around with certain levelranges just being shit. I actually almost fully soloed my way up to 60 on Fighter, which I did first, and only started duo-AQing on my Hunter when it was up way high in the 50s. I just took it easy, used Revelle and Hans to help keep the speed up with minimal effort. I didn't even use XP tickets either, since I wasn't in a rush.

Maybe you could abuse the Exp boost days along with Dark Falz spawning or so, if it of course aligns with your personal schedule. Falz still gives quite a decent amount of XP after all. Even if you'd only use your Sub on said EQ you'd probably still be able to make it level at a leisurely pace, especially with using tickets. Depends on your sub's level of course, and whether or not it's the 60-Falz.

Since you mentioned 45 though - those daily COs with the /99, if you have room, pick up ones that you can do with areas you do with your main. Everything helps. Some max out pretty darn quick too.

[UnLucky]

This is a problem I have, that playing my sub class bores me to death and I don't want to do it, I don't even want to think about doing it. It bores me so much thinking about leveling my sub class that I almost don't want to play at all anymore. As you need to level your sub class for those stats and if you don't you might not be able to equip what you want. It is no fun at all. So even getting 10% would have made me more than happy because like that I can play my main class and at least feel like something is happening on my sub class.

Also, it is not like you can switch to your sub class for a hour or two and go from lv 45 to 50, leveling is quite slow in this game once you hit lv 45, especially if you can't play often. So I rather put the time I have into my main class whenever I can play.
Exactly. It's like, well I could switch to my lv45 sub instead of my lv60 main and start leveling that with worse gear and worse stats and 75% or lower exp from any of the good grinding spots, all the while wishing you could just play as your main class instead... or, you know, just play as your main class instead!

This is just so wrong and I'm not even surprised anymore. The proper way to do it would be by presenting the player with options where one choice is faster but harder, and the other is slower but easier. That way the people who want to cap out fast will make the "sacrifice" to level up their subs much faster by actually playing them, whereas anyone who doesn't want to do that can still eventually get there by playing a LOT normally.

But Sega just denies players choices left and right, and punishes players for not doing things the "best" or only way. That just drives people away. It's not good for anyone involved.

[gigawuts]

hmm let's see if i missed anything on psow

/click thread

nope

[MetalDude]

At this point, it'd be a much greater help if they outright eliminated experience reduction altogether (you know, the thing they supposedly adjusted but makes a pathetic difference in the end). 52-60 is easy mode, 45-51 is hell.

[Inazuma]

The experience penalty is a dumb idea to begin with. The game already has level requirements for the various difficulty levels. That's good enough. If you can defeat a level 60 enemy with a level 45 character, you deserve to get all of the experience points. Why are we being punished for challenging ourselves?

In PSOBB, you lost exp when you died. If you wanted to play a high level quest with a low level char, you were only punished if you died. If you were good enough to handle it, you got rewarded with full exp points.

In PSO2, you lose exp by killing high level enemies! If you are good and do well in high level areas with a low level char, you are punished for it! And of course if you die, there is no penalty at all. Everyone can run out of moons or everyone can die at the boss and it does nothing. No penalty for being bad at the game. You are only punished if you do well.

As much as I'd love to blame Sega for this fuck up, I have to point the finger at the players. Generally speaking, we do not want a challenge. We do not want a punishment for failure. We do not want any sort of punishment for dying. Sega knows this, and designed the game to please us, the players. It's just sad. I miss having challenge in video games. I want to improve myself and become good at video games. It's really a shame people like me are the minority nowadays.

[gigawuts]

Monster Hunter is a game that handles death, fighting, invuln frames, etc. pretty well compared to PSO2. If it had experience points, I bet it'd handle that well too.

And yet MH is still a challenge (edit: solo, anyway) that seems much fairer than PSO2. I haven't been online, but I'm sure stumbling is as much of a problem (if not a bigger one). Still, there are other games that handle things better, and sega could learn (should be learning) from them.

[MetalDude]

Losing EXP for dying is arbitrary difficulty especially since it was a % lost meaning dying at 150+ (which is very possible on Ultimate) was absolutely awful. Penalties like that are not challenge, they're bad design.

[The_Philosopher]

The experience penalty is a dumb idea to begin with. The game already has level requirements for the various difficulty levels. That's good enough. If you can defeat a level 60 enemy with a level 45 character, you deserve to get all of the experience points. Why are we being punished for challenging ourselves?

Exactly! It baffes me to no end how this system is even acceptable. Once you reach VH, you're better off doing Dark Falz on HM because you'll get more experience.

But I can see why SEGA did it - it would be pretty broken if a level 40 joined a full multiparty area on say, Ruins or Sanctum and got full experience. But the problem here is not the fact that you have low levels, rather the fact that full multiparty areas take away whatever little challenge this game can throw on you and you would simply be able to leech off experience while doing zero effort. MPAs are a cancer in this game.

I'd be ok with this exp penalty in MPA areas, but, while soloing? While doing AQs? That's just unjustifiable laziness from SEGA in that they can't bother coming up with a hybrid exp penalty system.

[gigawuts]

I think the real problem is the whole enemy level system even existing next to the difficulty system.

With PSO1 people were used to difficulties being appropriately spaced. This is not the case in PSO2. You're meant to fight enemies within your level range. This might be spread out across all 3 current difficulties, given time for them to add enough areas. You'd be looking at the very last levels in normal roughly lining up with the very first quest in very hard.

So IMO, the real solution to all of this is to simply remove normal/hard/very hard difficulty names. Instead, show the enemy level right where the difficulty name is, and get players used to the idea of not picking a difficulty just because they've unlocked it. They should be focusing on what's in their level range.

Then make it so higher difficulties don't find every single item from lower difficulties, so you can actually make some kind of money in lower difficulties. Nothing like finding a 1 in a million rare in hard, only to find out it's worth 1k because everyone's farming very hard so much that it drops there pretty frequently - there's also the fact that there's probably a reskin with 50% stronger stats in very hard driving the item's value down too.

[Aine]

I think having to play classes other than your main is a good thing, because understanding how each class moves leads to improvement in teamwork and playstyle in general. People leveling using all-class weapons and COs are part of the reason we have Gunners that spam Elder Rebellion everywhere or Forces that use Zondeel on Mizers.

Those are extreme common sense examples, but there are more subtle things you can learn simply playing other classes properly. A lot of people attack Falz Elder's arms during his second phase attack where he sticks all his arms out at once, but if you've ever tried applying WB to them you'd realize the arms are actually in their retracted state and you can't break them.

[gigawuts]

I agree, but there's not much you're going to learn between levels 55-60 on a class you've played from 1 to 55.

[Rien]

Exactly! It baffes me to no end how this system is even acceptable. Once you reach VH, you're better off doing Dark Falz on HM because you'll get more experience.

But I can see why SEGA did it - it would be pretty broken if a level 40 joined a full multiparty area on say, Ruins or Sanctum and got full experience. But the problem here is not the fact that you have low levels, rather the fact that full multiparty areas take away whatever little challenge this game can throw on you and you would simply be able to leech off experience while doing zero effort. MPAs are a cancer in this game.

I'd be ok with this exp penalty in MPA areas, but, while soloing? While doing AQs? That's just unjustifiable laziness from SEGA in that they can't bother coming up with a hybrid exp penalty system.

You see the problem is SEGA designs a lot (you could even say most) of things for MPAs and while actual MPAs rip through them, it makes solo play a lot harder (yeah yeah I know, hurrdurr dodge hurrdurr just guard hurrdurr noob if you can't). Therefore imbalance.