Is it just me...

[Rien]

...Or are all the new "Na" technics explosions?

I mean, look!
http://bumped.org/psublog/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/New-Technics.jpg

Fire 'splosion, Dark 'splosion, Lightning 'splosion, Light 'splosion....

[Gama]

fire=nuke


nazonde might be a gravity field that does damage.

[HIT0SHI]

Fire, Dark, Light and Ice do seem like explosions however, Lightning looks more like a vacum and Wind is more like rapid slashes similar to the katana.

[UnLucky]

Well we already have Nazan



and it sucks

[AgemFrostMage]

Well we already have Nazan



and it sucks

It's very situational, like if you need to nazan cyclops then hit the weak point with zonde when they're down or gorongos then safoie.

[gigawuts]

Except you can do the same thing with razan.

Nazan is just a razan that pushes instead of lifts, and only works at point blank - making it very situational.

Nazan kind of demonstrates a failing in the design of techniques. Nazan would be better off without needing to charge to be used at full effectiveness, because the only time you want to knock something back is when it's about to wreck you - and you don't really have time to charge a tech in those cases.

[Gardios]

Well we already have Nazan

That's Zanverse. I was hoping it would be a support spell...

Na Grants please be good.

[Vintasticvin]

Except you can do the same thing with razan.

Nazan is just a razan that pushes instead of lifts,

Nazan= Storm Eagle's special attack?

[Kondibon]

I actually got the impression that they're some sort of Aura/shockwave. They all look pretty similar, but I don't see why if they're just explosions. I think they're going to have some other effect besides damage.


Except you can do the same thing with razan.

Nazan is just a razan that pushes instead of lifts, and only works at point blank - making it very situational.

Nazan kind of demonstrates a failing in the design of techniques. Nazan would be better off without needing to charge to be used at full effectiveness, because the only time you want to knock something back is when it's about to wreck you - and you don't really have time to charge a tech in those cases.

I'd honestly prefer if it just did a buttload of damage. Shotgun Zan blows it out of the water. :/

[gigawuts]

Yeah nazan is in an uncomfortable position. The knockback isn't very useful (not enough to warrant replacing a tech that does multiple things well, that is), and it's very very close range (which is another limitation). Making it similar to safoie won't work, since even with the same amount of damage it'd still knock things back - rendering it unable to finish the job. You could use another tech, sure, but that's besides the point.

So let's say it has enough damage that things die in one hit, so its own knockback isn't an issue for it. Now it's insanely powerful against things it can't knockback, such as bosses.

I'd say changing how it works would be better. Making it like gizan and then knocking back all around you would be pretty great. Maybe having it do a large AOE that knocks stuff down when uncharged, and then the same thing except with a ton of extra little hitboxes at point blank for decent damage?

I feel like it should pick between damage, fast & powerful knockback, and large AOE (let's say gibarta sized area that knocks down everything able to be knocked down).

But this isn't really on topic.

The new na- techs look pretty cool, I like the theme they have with being semi-ranged spheres. I'm curious if they'll focus on damage or what.

[Kondibon]

I'm really hoping they're debuffs now that I think about it. It's kinda silly that Ranger gets more debuffs than force and techer.

(SEGA! y u no Jellen and Zalure!?)

[gravityvx]

Huh, don't FO&TE have the most debuffs?

[Kondibon]

Huh, don't FO have the most debuffs?
I'm not counting the status effects from techs, since any class technically has access to them through affixing.

EDIT: To be more specific, Ranger has: Weak Bullet, Bind Bullet, Jellen Shot, and Stun Grenade. Forces have... some control techs? I love them to death but they aren't Jellen and Zalure. :I I don't mind rangers having a Jellen shot, I just think it's silly that they have jellen shot when forces don't even get Jellen.

Also I just realized Force and Techer are the only classes without any way to stun.

[Maenara]

I use Nazan all the time. Nazan is fast and uses little PP, does very good damage, and is one of very few technics that are good for hitting parts of enemies that can't be auto-targeted.
Then again, I also use Ragrants all the time too, so what do I know?

[Aine]

http://www.4gamer.net/games/120/G012075/20130701059/

Zanverse - Puts up a field that does no damage, but adds bonus wind damage when players attack enemies in the field.

Nagrants - Deals damage over time to enemies inside the AOE. DPS is lower than Gigrants, but total damage is higher and you can move while the tech is active.

Nazonde - Damage increases if you button-mash after casting it. Welp SEGA ignores players' pleas to remove button mashing in PAs and gimmicks and decides to add more.

Nabarta - Spews ice at the enemy, dealing continual damage.

Nafoie - Creates a fan-shaped wall of fire in the distance.

Namegido - As you charge it a rune appears above the enemy, when it's finished charging it deals big damage.

Also mentions a couple of the PAs. The new knuckle PA has a fast motion and high damage, but consumes a lot of PP. The Assault Rifle lets you dodge while shooting, and you can control the direction of the dodge. As you can see from the pictures, the new Launcher PA is a flamethrower.

[Gardios]

After getting Ra Grants myself, I don't really understand why no one else seems to like it.

I mean, the range could at least match the graphic effects, but other than that...


Zanverse - Puts up a field that does no damage, but adds bonus wind damage when players attack enemies in the field.
Nagrants - Deals damage over time to enemies inside the AOE. DPS is lower than Gigrants, but total damage is higher and you can move while the tech is active.
Well shit, I'm still torn between wind and light... XD

[Kondibon]

I use Nazan all the time. Nazan is fast and uses little PP, does very good damage, and is one of very few technics that are good for hitting parts of enemies that can't be auto-targeted.
Then again, I also use Ragrants all the time too, so what do I know?My problem with Nazan is that the knock back makes it hard to spam on normal enemies and on bosses if you're close enough to use it you'd get more mileage shotgunning zan or samegid. I hadn't thought about the lower pp cost but I still think you'd get more bang for your buck with with zan.


Ragrants is awesome for stunlocking Wondas though. = w=


http://www.4gamer.net/games/120/G012075/20130701059/

Zanverse - Puts up a field that does no damage, but adds bonus wind damage when players attack enemies in the field.

Nagrants - Deals damage over time to enemies inside the AOE. DPS is lower than Gigrants, but total damage is higher and you can move while the tech is active.

Nazonde - Damage increases if you button-mash after casting it. Welp SEGA ignores players' pleas to remove button mashing in PAs and gimmicks and decides to add more.

Nabarta - Spews ice at the enemy, dealing continual damage.

Nafoie - Creates a fan-shaped wall of fire in the distance.

Namegido - As you charge it a rune appears above the enemy, when it's finished charging it deals big damage.

Also mentions a couple of the PAs. The new knuckle PA has a fast motion and high damage, but consumes a lot of PP. The Assault Rifle lets you dodge while shooting, and you can control the direction of the dodge. As you can see from the pictures, the new Launcher PA is a flamethrower.Here's what I got out of that.

Zanverse=more dots!

Nagrants= more dots?

Nazonde= MORE DOTS!!

Nabarta= DOTS!

Nafoie= lolwut?

Namegid= Gimegid but not crap?


Ok rltlk! Here's what we're gonna do.

1. Zondeel
2. Zanverse
3. Nagrants
4. Nazonde
5. ???
6. Profit.

Assuming those all do decent damage, and Zanverse reacts to techs *knocks on wood* that sounds like a fun party combo.

[gravityvx]

I'm not counting the status effects from techs, since any class technically has access to them through affixing.

EDIT: To be more specific, Ranger has: Weak Bullet, Bind Bullet, Jellen Shot, and Stun Grenade. Forces have... some control techs? I love them to death but they aren't Jellen and Zalure. :I I don't mind rangers having a Jellen shot, I just think it's silly that they have jellen shot when forces don't even get Jellen.

Also I just realized Force and Techer are the only classes without any way to stun.

Everyone having access to them doesn't magically make those two classes not have most of them at their disposal at any given time since it's actually a part of their classes. Ranger has WB, the debuff shots that admittly no one uses(that I've seen), and traps no one uses. Problem(or not) with FOs debuffs is they are all situational, for example megid can either debuff for 10k+ poison ticks on bosses, or just outright turn into a free weak bullet on certain bosses.

Same with lolice, it can freeze normal enemies completely, whereas bosses like Vol it works as a bind. Or the lightning, can cause normal enemies to flip their shit, paralyze them, where as it can completely disable bosses like Cougar NX or Vardha. Also, Stun isn't really needed for FO or TE as they can pretty much flich lock the crap out of anything given that it's not a boss.

[UnLucky]

Zan is way better damage (point blank or otherwise), Razan is way better utility (point blank or otherwise). Hopefully Zanverse is the third wind tech to place on your weapon if you've got Zondeel on your palette. It would have to be significant damage, or scale based on the caster's T-Atk and not the attacker's. Probably gets extended with Territory Burst, too.

Ragrants is stronger than Grants, sure, but if the enemy moves at all then the rest of the tech is wasted. If you wanted to hit multiple enemies, you've got Gigrants for that.

[gigawuts]

Ragrants is for weakpoint pummeling. It costs less than gigrants and does more damage than grants, makes it ideal for hosing your PP on a target.

[Kondibon]

Everyone having access to them doesn't magically make those two classes not have most of them at their disposal at any given time since it's actually a part of their classes. Ranger has WB, the debuff shots that admittly no one uses(that I've seen), and traps no one uses. Problem(or not) with FOs debuffs is they are all situational, for example megid can either debuff for 10k+ poison ticks on bosses, or just outright turn into a free weak bullet on certain bosses.

Same with lolice, it can freeze normal enemies completely, whereas bosses like Vol it works as a bind. Or the lightning, can cause normal enemies to flip their shit, paralyze them, where as it can completely disable bosses like Cougar NX or Vardha. Also, Stun isn't really needed for FO or TE as they can pretty much flich lock the crap out of anything given that it's not a boss.That's true. Fair enough. Still doesn't make me any less bothered by the lack of Jellen and Zalure.


Zan is way better damage (point blank or otherwise), Razan is way better utility (point blank or otherwise). Hopefully Zanverse is the third wind tech to place on your weapon if you've got Zondeel on your palette. It would have to be significant damage, or scale based on the caster's T-Atk and not the attacker's. Probably gets extended with Territory Burst, too.

Ragrants is stronger than Grants, sure, but if the enemy moves at all then the rest of the tech is wasted. If you wanted to hit multiple enemies, you've got Gigrants for that.
Ragrants Staggers like crazy. That said it's not all that great for anything you can't do that too like bosses. I mostly use it on... well... wanda's.

[Z-0]

Ragrants' AoE is pathetically small, and the range is really small too. It does more damage and charges a bit faster than Grants, but it's definitely not worth spamming. For Wondas, Safoie shits all over Ragrants.

Anyway!

Zanverse sounds dumb (unless you damage increase for this "field" is huge), Nagrants sounds like Zondeel but without the suction effect, Nazonde is gonna be broken as fuck with a turbo controller, Nabarta sounds like a Gibarta clone, Nafoie sounds like ranged Safoie and Namegid may possibly be Gimegid but less shit!

[gigawuts]

Wouldn't it be cool if they focused on role-oriented design, where if a move does not live up to its intended role it's boosted until it does instead of just adding more moves that do the same thing better?

Yeah...

[UnLucky]

Nah, I hate having to switch weapons just to use all the good flame techs. Why can't there only be 3 that are good so I can keep melee on my rod? That's why lightning techs are the best. Zonde/Sazonde/Zondeel is the perfect weapon palette.

[Inazuma]

Nah, I hate having to switch weapons just to use all the good flame techs. Why can't there only be 3 that are good so I can keep melee on my rod? That's why lightning techs are the best. Zonde/Sazonde/Zondeel is the perfect weapon palette.

Why do you have melee attack on your rods? Use a gunslash to recover PP. If you need something quick for just attack, use an uncharged tech from your hotbar like shifta (for the buff) or a low PP cost lightning tech. Being able to have four techs on your rod is very helpful. Also, gizonde is great.

[Gardios]

Zanverse sounds dumb (unless you damage increase for this "field" is huge)
I dunno, if the da,ae is fixed it seems perfect in conjunction with multihit stuff like other wind techs or Cracker Bomb.

Of course, in the end it depends on whether SEGA fucks up its PP cost and duration or not...

[Z-0]

It's wind techs only. Not everything.

[AgemFrostMage]

hosing your PP on a target.

^_^

/5char

[Inazuma]

It's wind techs only. Not everything.

If players attack enemies inside the zanverse field, it will add wind-element damage to the enemies.

[gigawuts]

If players attack enemies inside the zanverse field, it will add wind-element damage to the enemies.

Woah woah woah, now this is a really cool idea that I totally like.

If it merely buffs your damage if you cast it while standing inside the field, like megiverse but with a bonus that only applies to wind techs instead of healing you, then it is a really dumb idea.

[Gardios]

It's wind techs only. Not everything.

The 4gamer articles doesn't mention that, though...?

[Sp-24]

Woah woah woah, now this is a really cool idea that I totally like.

If it merely buffs your damage if you cast it while standing inside the field, like megiverse but with a bonus that only applies to wind techs instead of healing you, then it is a really dumb idea.
Is forcing additional attacks to be of probably the most situational element in the game really that much better than buffing whatever damage you are currently dealing?

Unless you mean Zanverse dealing additional attacks instead of flat out increasing damage, which would have been a cool idea if there weren't enough pointless numbers on the screen to hide a masked Falz behind them already (I'm not kidding, some of OHKOs he did to me were with a Stealth Arrow that I didn't see from behind my own damage numbers).

[gigawuts]

My stance:
+20%, 30%, whatever (like it would be more than 10% anyway) to only wind techs when standing in a circle: bad
Extra attacks against anything in a circle: good

edit: But this depends on how long it lasts. If we're looking at megiverse duration just use a damage tech in 99% of all situations, unless it's a significant bonus and applies to EVERYTHING that hits a target inside the area. Like, breaking falz arms? Imagine casting this around an arm weak point and watching it take an additional attack for every single other attack that hits the arm. But besides that, if it doesn't last long it'll be worthless.

[jooozek]

wait, how the fuck exactly is nazonde and button mashing supposed to work? it will have a cast time of the whole duration?

[Z-0]

Aine's original post says

"boosts damage to wind attacks"

maybe not just techs, but still...

[Sinue_v2]

I don't mind rangers having a Jellen shot, I just think it's silly that they have jellen shot when forces don't even get Jellen.

But what would be the point if the entire game to a large degree (at least in practice) is set up to reward offensive speccing to the exclusion of defensive builds. We already have the matching buffs, but Shifta and Deband are a joke, and anybody with a grain of sense just gets an EX drink that will probably last the duration of the mission. Or just doesn't bother. So why would you think that Jellen and Zelure would be any different if S/D has trouble justifying it's existence, and assuming they wouldn't be, then the time wasted debuffing enemies is time and PP lost in which you could have been nuking or dispensing Resta/Anti. Trash mobs die too quickly to matter, and bosses are better handled with dodge and block.

Sure, WB, JS, and such debuffs in the Ranger tree are extremely potent, but unlike techniques they're also pegged to cooldown timers that limit their usage. Weak Bullet further limits it's use by making all it's shots sequential - so you have to rely on PAs to attack to keep from wasting them. This effectively puts a RA on the dedicated debuff duty until his last shot or the duration of the boss fight/mob wave. So it's not like there's any great need for that role anyhow.


Honestly, it's not like they've even been really all that useful since the PSO days anyhow behond of a handful of situational applications. Especially at lvl 15 where they're currently capped off at. Still, at least buffs had the longevity to be worth casting just for the fuck of it. Now you don't even have that, and the only way to improve the matter comes at the cost of maiming your skill tree.

[NoiseHERO]

Aine's original post says

"boosts damage to wind attacks"

maybe not just techs, but still...

I hope it's not just techs.

Wind element needs a use!

edit: "Director Suganuma seems interested in trying a quest where you fight Dudu."

[UnLucky]

Aine's original post says

"boosts damage to wind attacks"

maybe not just techs, but still...

If it just boosts wind within the circle, it's gonna have to be at least a 50% bonus or it's not worth casting at all.

I'd love for it to add like a Zan strike to every hit from all players, and considering the screenshot shows an effect that I don't recognize, I'm going to assume that graphic is from Zanverse itself.

As for Nazonde, I hope it doesn't have to be charged first, just mashed. Looks like it's a continuous fist pump for its duration, and it's centered around the caster, so I think you're stuck in the animation. You'd think it'd be more useful off of a talis, but don't use it around multiple enemies...

[gigawuts]

I didn't even bother listing striking & ranged damage because it'll almost definitely be applied the same way weak hit advance is. Oh goodie, your 50% turns into a 60%, whoop de frickin do.

[UnLucky]

It certainly wouldn't make wind the go-to elemental attribute for all weapon types.

[LonelyGaruga]

Zanverse - Puts up a field that does no damage, but adds bonus wind damage when players attack enemies in the field.


If players attack enemies inside the zanverse field, it will add wind-element damage to the enemies.

This is what I'm getting out of the information provided. "Bonus" could mean that wind damage gets buffed, but with Megiverse providing a life drain effect, I find that the more unusual wind damage added on to attacks would be the more likely option.

[Z-0]

Hm... didn't think of it like that. If the bonus "wind element damage" is significant, it could be good.

[Kondibon]

But what would be the point if the entire game to a large degree (at least in practice) is set up to reward offensive speccing to the exclusion of defensive builds. We already have the matching buffs, but Shifta and Deband are a joke, and anybody with a grain of sense just gets an EX drink that will probably last the duration of the mission. Or just doesn't bother. So why would you think that Jellen and Zelure would be any different if S/D has trouble justifying it's existence, and assuming they wouldn't be, then the time wasted debuffing enemies is time and PP lost in which you could have been nuking or dispensing Resta/Anti. Trash mobs die too quickly to matter, and bosses are better handled with dodge and block.

Sure, WB, JS, and such debuffs in the Ranger tree are extremely potent, but unlike techniques they're also pegged to cooldown timers that limit their usage. Weak Bullet further limits it's use by making all it's shots sequential - so you have to rely on PAs to attack to keep from wasting them. This effectively puts a RA on the dedicated debuff duty until his last shot or the duration of the boss fight/mob wave. So it's not like there's any great need for that role anyhow.


Honestly, it's not like they've even been really all that useful since the PSO days anyhow behond of a handful of situational applications. Especially at lvl 15 where they're currently capped off at. Still, at least buffs had the longevity to be worth casting just for the fuck of it. Now you don't even have that, and the only way to improve the matter comes at the cost of maiming your skill tree.The main problem with Shifta and Deband for me has always been that they're too hard to get it on your party members while they're running around and still being worth it, not that they're inherently bad. Giving your whole party a 10% atk increase against a boss for a minute outweighs doing 5k damage for one second to me so being able to do it to the boss instead of having to waste time trying to catch my party would be a great boon. Heck I'm pretty sure I can get in more than 10 hits before shifta or zalure wore off on my own.

And people get hit. I don't care how good you are at this game, sometimes people get hit, and if I'm gonna get hit I'd rather it do less damage so I don't have to pop mates/resta every single time.

I'd certainly like Shifta and Deband to be buffed. Of course they could be a lot better and a lot less clunky, but they aren't useless or a waste of pp considering how easy it is to get back anyway.

[gigawuts]

Hm... didn't think of it like that. If the bonus "wind element damage" is significant, it could be good.

Well it depends how they do it. Let's assume it's not an additional attack, but just more damage on top of hits. How will it work?

It could be
1. +x% damage
2. +x damage - always a set amount, great for rapid fire attacks

The latter could be CRAZY powerful to combo with something like infinity fire or one point. The former could still be powerful.

This really seems like them being lazy about wind tech balance, though. Instead of a proper move, they give wind of all things a damage-oriented support tech.

[Kondibon]

This really seems like them being lazy about wind tech balance, though. Instead of a proper move, they give wind of all things a damage-oriented support tech.

Wind was lacking a true support tech when all the other elements have at least one. I just hope it's decent. I'm pretty sure it's gonna be an extra hit though. Hence my silly idea of just having a full party pop a bunch of AoE techs over it.

[Syklo]

This really seems like them being lazy about wind tech balance, though. Instead of a proper move, they give wind of all things a damage-oriented support tech.

Perhaps this is SEGA's response to making Techers more offensive?

[UnLucky]

Well no matter what it is, it's better than an accuracy buff

[gigawuts]

So, with this thread: http://www.pso-world.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2996796#post2996796

It's looking GOOD for nagrants. I had high hopes it would be a semi-long duration area denial tech, but didn't want to jinx it by saying as much. This game has needed a kind of area denial for a while.

Now I want an automated turret. I don't care if it fits I want a turret.

[UnLucky]

So Nabarta and Nazonde better be amazing for how long you're locked into using them.

[LonelyGaruga]

I'm willing to bet Nabarta can be canceled by a dodge, or will at least allow players to jump, since the character using it is shown to walk freely during the duration of the attack. Dunno about Nazonde, but I can see Mirage Escape cancels being something that wouldn't clash with the button mashing aspect of it.

Looking at the Zanverse demonstration, it looks like what happens is that, after the character uses Rafoie, Zanverse reacts and triggers a wind attack. Not quite what I was hoping for, but at least it really isn't a buff to wind techs.

[gigawuts]

I assumed that since nabarta showed a continuous decrease of PP, instead of absorbing a chunk, that it's not a long tech but instead a hold-to-fire tech. It didn't even charge, either. It looks like it just immediately begins spewing as soon as you press the button.

I'm wondering what that means for tech charge advance. Maybe this is them trying to help define ice as a standalone element? By separating it from TCA they remove the need for a deep investment in the ice tree - and by making this a continuous draw on the PP they actually negate any effects of PP Revival.

The fire tree does essentially nothing for nabarta.

[Alisha]

just a thought but.....what if the zanverse effect procs on your wand melee hit as well as the wand gear hit?

if it only procs on techs this game is dead to me.

[Kondibon]

I assumed that since nabarta showed a continuous decrease of PP, instead of absorbing a chunk, that it's not a long tech but instead a hold-to-fire tech. It didn't even charge, either. It looks like it just immediately begins spewing as soon as you press the button.

I'm wondering what that means for tech charge advance. Maybe this is them trying to help define ice as a standalone element? By separating it from TCA they remove the need for a deep investment in the ice tree - and by making this a continuous draw on the PP they actually negate any effects of PP Revival.

The fire tree does essentially nothing for nabarta.

I feel like maintain techs would have been a good match for the uncharged tech damage bonuses as well... It's a shame there only seems to be one this long into the game, maybe two, if nazonde isn't charged.

[UnLucky]

Elysion's potential and Normal Tech Advance actually being meaningful? Why, Sega?

Except you'll notice the PP bar depleting by ~20 right as Nabarta is activated, and Nazonde looks to be charged, released, and then mashed.

Besides, if some techs can only get a 10% bonus while the vast majority of techs can get a 20% bonus, I think you know where this is headed.

[Kondibon]

Elysion's potential and Normal Tech Advance actually being meaningful? Why, Sega?

Except you'll notice the PP bar depleting by ~20 right as Nabarta is activated, and Nazonde looks to be charged, released, and then mashed.

Besides, if some techs can only get a 10% bonus while the vast majority of techs can get a 20% bonus, I think you know where this is headed.

Yeah I know. I'm just lamenting the lost potential...

[UnLucky]

Yeah it would have been pretty cool to have an even split between charged and uncharged techs, with either being a reasonable choice. But no, we just have one path be completely worthless garbage even an insane retard would never consider.

[LonelyGaruga]

Depending on the damage output Nabarta can deal out, I could see it working just fine. I expect PP affixes to be necessary to get the most out of it. If it can deal Zan-esque or higher damage, then it might even be useful without points in Ice Mastery. That it's made for DPS almost instantly makes a use for it within the Ice element, at least, since all the other Ice techs don't offer very good DPS compared to the other elements. Nabarta is certainly going to be defined by how much damage it does (and possibly how efficiently it does that damage), hope Sega does the math this time around and makes it actually worthwhile. That it loses out on Charge Tech Advance is certainly a hindrance, and if Sega does not take that into account, then it'll be pointless to use, much like Sabarta already is. Ice is lacking in useful techs as it is, and if Nabarta fails to live up to the expectations it needs to make, another bad Ice tech will just be laughable.

[Shadowth117]

Yeah it would have been pretty cool to have an even split between charged and uncharged techs, with either being a reasonable choice. But no, we just have one path be completely worthless garbage even an insane retard would never consider.

Actually, I really hope this doesn't happen. The skill trees for force are already specialized enough as it is. Having to have more builds because certain uncharged techs are amazing would actually be very annoying. Fire, lightning, and dark (and sometimes light) builds are already all very viable in the right instances. Having to make more trees or possibly even duplicates with uncharged power ups would be really stupid to me :/

[gigawuts]

Yes, if all but one tech benefit from a bonus then it's not that one tech that will define the optimal skilltree.

That's even true for all but one element. Let's say that they change ice in its entirety, though. Then let's say the button mash PA's also benefit from this change, plus a number of pretty mediocre techs. Then let's say photon flare is moved to a fourth branch (or removed entirely lol), and ice is given a whole new focus on range, speed, and a chance to deal additional hits. Each element should have a flamethrower-style PA, or even two. Change each underpowered tech to directly benefit from this new ice tree.

Gimegid? A chance for extra hits and faster application. Rabarta and gibarta? More range and possibly more hits. Sabarta? Faster and a chance for more hits. Expand this to a lot of underpowered techs. It would also apply to some balanced techs though, so I dunno. Rafoie would get essentially nothing, but foie would have a faster travel time (not that it would make an actual difference - hell, I hear it might make it worse in TA's since one foie kills a series of consecutive spawns in one location via grazing damage).

Also, instead of locking something, have it immediately and always apply a freeze that always breaks from its own damage (with an unchanged chance to re-apply freeze). This is just to make it more obvious that it locks enemies, and then so it works on freezable targets that won't be locked.

Ice has a lot of potential as a good defensive tree, but they just aren't taking it. Lightning should also directly benefit other techs more in some way - maybe a small PP refund for number of enemies hit or something, I don't know. Leave fire as it is, it has a fitting universal bonus to all techs - it's lightning and ice that need expanding on.

[Rien]

Lightning should also directly benefit other techs more in some way - maybe a small PP refund for number of enemies hit or something, I don't know.

I think this should be given to the Techer's Light tree instead...

[UnLucky]

Actually, I really hope this doesn't happen. The skill trees for force are already specialized enough as it is. Having to have more builds because certain uncharged techs are amazing would actually be very annoying. Fire, lightning, and dark (and sometimes light) builds are already all very viable in the right instances. Having to make more trees or possibly even duplicates with uncharged power ups would be really stupid to me :/

I fully realize that, that's why I'm against one or two techs being the outliers here, as that just means either nobody ever uses these techs because they're weak due to no or smaller bonuses, or they're the only ones you can use due to your build.

But a good split, where the choice between charged/uncharged is purely a difference in playstyle, where you can still use any element effectively and you still have range/AoE/damage/utility, it's just in a different form. Like you don't think "damn, if only I had a (un)charged tree, I'd be so much better"

A pipe dream, of course, since one would be better than the other and become the only choice.