SEGA NEEDS to add PVP modes.

[Rosel]

I'm convinced that the only remaining way for SEGA to salvage this game is if they add a couple of decent PVP modes.

Possible some team-based, round-based PVP and a death match in some enclosed arena versions of the existing maps.

The reason is because they can't update fun content for crap and there's nothing to do.

Games with PVP last much longer without updates than purely PVE games. If they're going to be lazy adding new stuff, they should add least let us bash eachother's heads in while we wait.

Anyone agree? :-?

I would rather a highly cooperative PVE experience but it's just not happening. PVP won't suffer from the game's horrible AI and it would encourage teamwork which isn't needed anywhere else in the game.

[Noc Codez]

Classes to unbalanced for that..

[Valkyrie Lovrina]

I would have originally said no. but recently(ever since the last time I played TERA) I came more welcome to PvP. even contempting to play LoL since PSO2 has PvP absent. even PSO1 and PSPo2 had Batte Mode.

so yes, I agree. but they need to rebalance things beforehand. (Sega doing any rebalancing correctly? :lol:)

[Kilich]

Only if its a DotA like mode. And with preset gear and with serverside players. And with a ping/latency threshold set by the players.

[Rosel]

Nope.

Care you explain?

or is it just like "I DONT WANT IT SO NO"?

Balance is bad but a lot of the poor balance is related to how overly simplistic the combat and enemy design is, which is why some classes have such a huge advantage.

I actually think the current classes are BETTER balanced for PVP than they are for PVE.

Regardless fighting real players, all of whom play differently and do different things, is certainly more exciting than rerunning old dungeons over and over IMO.

[NoiseHERO]

Stop

Don't make a thread about PVP.

People are too intolerant and close minded to accept the concept of this game having any PVP because they instantly think of the PVP other MMOs have and how "IT'LL MAKE A COMMUNITY DOUCHEY" or something (all the douchey people will already be douchey.)

Even though PSO and PSP2 had battle mode. It sucked but it was there and ignorable if you didn't enjoy it.

[LordShade]

Sega needs to rebalance all the classes first. Otherwise Rangers would be full Herp and Forces would one shot everything moving.

not to mention Hunter and Fighter being bottom tier.

[Eveningxtar]

I would not agree with having a pvp system just on my own personal preference but agree that if it is done somehow like how it was done in phantasy star portable 2 infinity, it might get pretty entertaining but indeed the game requires adjustment as I think fo will just LOL wipe everyone in pvp

[Rosel]

Sega needs to rebalance all the classes first. Otherwise Rangers would be full Herp and Forces would one shot everything moving.

not to mention Hunter and Fighter being bottom tier.

Obviously HP and damage taken would be much different in PVP.

I disagree, I think Hunters and Fighters would thrive in PVP compared to everywhere else in the game.

[Lostbob117]

Sega needs to rebalance all the classes first. Otherwise Rangers would be full Herp and Forces would one shot everything moving.

not to mention Hunter and Fighter being bottom tier.

Bottom tier for pvp that would be, Hunter and Fighter are awesome at pve.

Anyways, I think pvp would be fun.

[Gardios]

They can't even balance classes for PvE properly, what makes you think PvP would be anything but a disaster? PvP like in most other MMORPGs just wouldn't work here.

I'd rather have a pseudo PvP mode where two teams fight against monster waves (separate from each other), and depending on how well they do the waves for the other team become more difficult. I think Zyru suggesting something like that in another topic.

[NoiseHERO]

I think it could be objective/teamwork based or making it so, like previous game's PVP you can only use certain weapon types against each other. And everyone has pre-set stats.

Best case scenario also making it so only players of the same class can go 1 on 1 or something with the above considered. So it's all based off of skill/connection(can't do anything about having a shitty connection IN-GAME at least) and not which class is OP and who has the best gear while being said OP class.

Or worst case scenario it can just be a badly made side minigame that won't work out well or be balanced. But because it's optional and on the side, and because we're this far into the game. The people that want PVP can enjoy it and the people that don't enjoy PVP can not-complain-about-it and play the rest of the game.

[Kilich]

Care you explain?

or is it just like "I DONT WANT IT SO NO"?

Balance is bad but a lot of the poor balance is related to how overly simplistic the combat and enemy design is, which is why some classes have such a huge advantage.

I actually think the current classes are BETTER balanced for PVP than they are for PVE.

Regardless fighting real players, all of whom play differently and do different things, is certainly more exciting than rerunning old dungeons over and over IMO.

Fo's will snipe people with techs that can be fired anywhere in their line of sight and more, if you look at rafoie.

RA gameplay will consist of applying WB and HE and spamming Gu dodge to get in range, since you can't hide from techs.

What will melee do to close in? Sub Gu for dodge? Sub FO for techs?

PvP is just not happening in the current state.

[Reiketsu]

No units, level of both characters gets set back to one, can't use any weapons, just bare hands. Then slap the shit out of each other. In a steel cage.

[Lostbob117]

No units, level of both characters gets set back to one, can't use any weapons, just bare hands. Then slap the shit out of each other. In a steel cage.

CODE: WRESTLE(I think I spelled it correctly, never had to spell that word before.)

[yoshiblue]

Best way to by pass balancing is to add PvP only skills and just balance everything from there. Maybe throw in PvP only weapons too. Otherwise, I would have to agree. PvP would just be a giant mistake.

[Syklo]

I wouldn't mind if the pvp modes don't involve killing (i.e. sports), such that classes wouldn't really matter (much).
For instance, the "Photon chair racing" that I've seen whilst lurking.

Alternatively, pvp which utilise a totally different mechanic that overrides the usual gameplay (e.g. the myroom "trick darts" item, as a minigame)

[landman]

What about disabling auto aim for PVP? only TPS mode would work for ranged classes...

[Dan Maku]

There would need to be some major rebalancing of the classes to make PvP enjoyable on any level for non-magical players.

I would be down for a hoard mode-like endurance mode, though.

[ReaperTheAbsol]

They can't even balance classes for PvE properly, what makes you think PvP would be anything but a disaster? PvP like in most other MMORPGs just wouldn't work here.

I'd rather have a pseudo PvP mode where two teams fight against monster waves (separate from each other), and depending on how well they do the waves for the other team become more difficult. I think Zyru suggesting something like that in another topic.

I like this idea. I remember reading about that in another topic, and personally I would like the idea come into fruition.

Anyways. Where are the 6 v 12 clones battles? First to fifty points or something appropriate. Just throwing that out there.

[Lumpen Thingy]

elites already try to brag about who and what are the fastest at time attacks why the hell would I want to see people brag about being the best at PVP?

[~Aya~]

They should not implement PvP. I'm too good of a HU for that.


I don't want to be the reason for ship 2 rage quitters.

[Shirokami]

-comes out of nowhere-
What about, areas with slight better exp and drop rates, say, 50-75% higher rates in which you can be invaded by other players who will try to take you down for the farming rights of that area?
It'd become a damn battleground. I'd love to see this happening.

[Enforcer MKV]

They should not implement PvP. I'm too good of a HU for that.


I don't want to be the reason for ship 2 rage quitters.

Lol...


*Ahem* Anyway, in all seriousness; the only form of PvP I can see working is something like...well, sports. Soccer, airboards maybe. Combat PvP would be way too unbalanced.

[Neferpitou]

For me this game recreated the experience of Monster Hunter. If I wanted to play a game that has PvP i'd go play Dota 2. I'm here for the fun PvE experience and cosmetics.

If you're a hardcore gamer I recommend filling your boredom time with Dota 2, I've tried it out and its excellent. You get all the heroes for free and you can earn cosmetic items (or buy them). The competitive scene is exploding, at one time the streams had 160k+ viewers and its rising.

I know you love pso2 but it can't be everyting ^^

[BlankM]

The PvP would be awful.

I'd love to see it though. If not just for something silly to do. I don't think a lot of people would play it though...

[gigawuts]

If they gimped weak bullet, made techs less spammable, and gave melee some more defense, it could work. Otherwise it'll just be rangers and forces, with melee users slinking around trying not to be noticed until they're in your face darching your face - and still hoping they're not noticed by anyone but you. The flinch is too easy to spam for it to ever be balanced, whoever has the best connection would win every time.

[o0Kais0o]

Competetive objective based pvp would be nice, I really don't see a combat based pvp working for reasons mentioned several times already.

[BlankM]

If they gimped weak bullet, made techs less spammable, and gave melee some more defense, it could work. Otherwise it'll just be rangers and forces, with melee users slinking around trying not to be noticed until they're in your face darching your face - and still hoping they're not noticed by anyone but you. The flinch is too easy to spam for it to ever be balanced, whoever has the best connection would win every time.

Uncharged techs would rule since some of them flinch you immediately. However if a FO had to charge, the melee could get in their face or dodge the tech and punish pretty heavily.

Also yeah, connection to server would ruin everything. Specially for US players.

[Scarlet-Star]

Well that would require a ton of effort on SEGA's Part, SEGA doesn't do tons of effort.

[Zyrusticae]

If they gimped weak bullet, made techs less spammable, and gave melee some more defense, it could work. Otherwise it'll just be rangers and forces, with melee users slinking around trying not to be noticed until they're in your face darching your face - and still hoping they're not noticed by anyone but you. The flinch is too easy to spam for it to ever be balanced, whoever has the best connection would win every time.
Hunters one-shotting entire parties with Assault Buster would be hilarious, though!

(I still don't approve of this idea)

[AgemFrostMage]

The game just isn't built for PK and no one likes PKers. Besides, everyone has own treasure from kills so no need for PK to settle disputes. At least gear doesn't break, funny whenever people say, "I can break your equipment" because they are that much higher.

[gravityvx]

I like how people talk as if they can't just make a balance mode for PVP, then it'd actually be skill + class vs match-up and not just gear + class. Plenty of games do it, and it's never not a good thing. Hell, even if there were just a normal mode PVP it's something else to do besides be bored spamming mindless TAs and AQs.

[Gardios]

Plenty of games also implement the weapon camo system correctly. PSO2 is not one of them. :wacko:

[gigawuts]

I like how people talk as if they can't just make a balance mode for PVP

We talk about it like that because they can't. They can't even balance pve. It is so horrendously easy to balance PVE and they repeatedly and consistently go out of their way to do an awful job of it.

[Xaeris]

I like how people talk as if they can't just make a balance mode for PVP, then it'd actually be skill + class vs match-up and not just gear + class. Plenty of games do it, and it's never not a good thing. Hell, even if there were just a normal mode PVP it's something else to do besides be bored spamming mindless TAs and AQs.

Really. You name me a game you think has balanced PvP, and I'll show you a message board filled with people who vehemently disagree.

[Shirokami]

For me this game recreated the experience of Monster Hunter. If I wanted to play a game that has PvP i'd go play Dota 2. I'm here for the fun PvE experience and cosmetics.

If you're a hardcore gamer I recommend filling your boredom time with Dota 2, I've tried it out and its excellent. You get all the heroes for free and you can earn cosmetic items (or buy them). The competitive scene is exploding, at one time the streams had 160k+ viewers and its rising.

I know you love pso2 but it can't be everyting ^^

I rather sleep than play one of those League of Legends type games.
160k+ viewers is more than enough proof of terrible game it is.

[Z-0]

does pso2 actually do anything correctly (design-wise)?

[gigawuts]

does pso2 actually do anything correctly (design-wise)?

Some things, yes. Other things, well, it is pretty clear they don't extensively play their own game. It becomes especially clear when they try actual, non-scripted grinding on streams, fail, and run away from dudu while frantically trying to change the subject.

They know some mechanics are bad. That's the point.

[~Aya~]

does pso2 actually do anything correctly (design-wise)?


Booty shorts

[Shirokami]

does pso2 actually do anything correctly (design-wise)?
Eva - FI: 60 FO: 60 TE: 60
Matt - HU: 60 FI: 60 RA: 60 GU: 60

You tell me, you seem to have been playing this for a while so you either like crap or PSO2 did something pretty well design wise.

[NoiseHERO]

Getting any form of PVP in this game would be all I want.

It doesn't have to be the generic definition of PVP. <_<

Ya'll actin' like we tryna legalize slaves in the 1800's

[gravityvx]

We talk about it like that because they can't. They can't even balance pve. It is so horrendously easy to balance PVE and they repeatedly and consistently go out of their way to do an awful job of it.

Pretty sure they can make a balance PVP mode, it's not rocket science making everyone use equalized gear, altered cooldowns and stats/multipliers, isn't hard at all. And that's how balanced PVP modes usually work. No one has an advantage/disadvantage until you're againt certain match ups which end up being more skill based than faceroll.


Really. You name me a game you think has balanced PvP, and I'll show you a message board filled with people who vehemently disagree.

And you show me anywhere in this thread where I state anything about PVP being balanced. Pretty sure I said a balance mode for PVP. The difference between balanced/equalized mode & normal is night and day. In one, you have people who have been playing forever, have insane gear and will destroy any newcomer no matter what class. In the other, you're on completely equal grounds gear & stat wise, they have no advantage over you unless it's a bad class matchup aka where balance plays it's part be it good or bad for whichever side.

[SquashDemon]

If they can figure out how to not make it suck, sure. I dunno if they're capable of doing that though, since every Phantasy Star game I've played had loltastic PVP.

Wanna win? Be a Force.

Except in PSP2, then be a Vanguard, and pit your Vangard against other people's Vangards!

horray.

...f***n' hate that game.

But yeah, if they can competently balance out Ranger/Gunner's "lol ur airborn now kiddie."

Force's Talis>Zondeel>Rafoie>Zondeel>Rafoie>Zondeel>Rafoie...oh, you're dead, I didn't even chip a nail.

then sure.

but until then,

No.

God no.

No God please no.

Noooooooooooooooooo.

[gigawuts]

Pretty sure they can make a balanced PVP, it's not rocket science making everyone use equalized gear, altered cooldowns and stats/multipliers, isn't hard at all. And that's how balanced PVP modes usually work. No one has an advantage/disadvantage until you're againt certain match ups which end up being more skill based than faceroll.You really, really, really give them way too much credit. How do you expect them to know what a good cooldown is for how strong a move is? How do you expect them to do anything but give super powerful moves long cooldowns instead of making sure no super powerful moves exist?

I'll just bring it right to the worst example: Weak Bullet. 3x damage on one target. Even if you reduce it to 1 bullet, even if you increase the cooldown to 5 minutes, that will be ridiculous when a team brings 3 rangers just for that ability and then swaps to their launchers to spam, with the AOE flinching on every hit.

They can't balance PVE, which is so heinously easy to balance that it's actually somewhat offensive that they can't do it decently. You cannot be saying they could balance PVP, with its faster pacing and FOTM-chasing culture where the best build is always pursued by everyone at the slightest change of anything. You cannot say they wouldn't force you to choose a single skilltree for PVP and then pay to reset it when they change the balance of weapons, which would not technically require a free all-tree reset ticket because the trees weren't directly rebalanced.

They can't, or won't, properly balance PVP. They can't, or won't, properly balance much of the game as it exists. I am still dumbfounded at how much they utterly despise the concept of melee having decent damage AND having more than one survival skill - and you can forget about getting the flash guards, which aren't even very good, if you want any semblance of good damage. It's like the entire balance team only played rangers in PSU and thus have a seething hatred for anything carrying a blade.

[Shambertin]

wouldn't pvp kinda miss the point of phantasy star. {Players vs the evil threat of dark falz/Profound darkness}.

[~Aya~]

You really, really, really give them way too much credit. How do you expect them to know what a good cooldown is for how strong a move is? How do you expect them to do anything but give super powerful moves long cooldowns instead of making sure no super powerful moves exist?

I'll just bring it right to the worst example: Weak Bullet. 3x damage on one target. Even if you reduce it to 1 bullet, even if you increase the cooldown to 5 minutes, that will be ridiculous when a team brings 3 rangers just for that ability and then swaps to their launchers to spam, with the AOE flinching on every hit.

They can't balance PVE, which is so heinously easy to balance that it's actually somewhat offensive that they can't do it decently. You cannot be saying they could balance PVE, with its faster pacing and FOTM-chasing culture where the best build is always pursued by everyone at the slightest change of anything. You cannot say they wouldn't force you to choose a single skilltree for PVP and then pay to reset it when they change the balance of weapons, which would not technically require a free all-tree reset ticket because the trees weren't directly rebalanced.

They can't, or won't, properly balance PVP. They can't, or won't, properly balance much of the game as it exists. I am still dumbfounded at how much they utterly despise the concept of melee having decent damage AND having more than one survival skill - and you can forget about getting the flash guards, which aren't even very good, if you want any semblance of good damage. It's like the entire balance team only played rangers in PSU and thus have a seething hatred for anything carrying a blade.

They don't need to balance it at all. It just needs to be hilarious.

I can see people trolling others with troll PAs already... ♥♥..

[Xaeris]

And you show me anywhere in this thread where I state anything about PVP being balanced. Pretty sure I said a balance mode for PVP. The difference between balanced/equalized mode & normal is night and day. In one, you have people who have been playing forever, have insane gear and will destroy any newcomer no matter what class. In the other, you're on completely equal grounds gear & stat wise, they have no advantage over you unless it's a bad class matchup aka where balance plays it's part be it good or bad for whichever side.

Pedantry.

You say that it would be simple to institute a balanced mode. For what purpose would this be done, if not to have balanced PvP? You proposed this balanced mode as a solution to people asserting that PvP in this game would be unbalanced. So if this balanced mode doesn't achieve that purpose, it's no solution at all. And it wouldn't achieve that purpose, since equalizing gear wouldn't do jack all about the class balance.

[gigawuts]

Yup. The problem isn't even in gear, it's in the inherent abilities of each class. They still haven't nailed down balance for PVE, which has been out for the entire lifetime of the game's development. Instead what they do is drag around what's good, pushing this class's damage forward and then that class's damage forward, instead of team-oriented support & utility roles (which would be far more entertaining and interesting for the game's longevity, plus much easier to balance).

They could equalize everyone's gear, sure. And what exactly would that do for class balance, again?

[NoiseHERO]

wouldn't pvp kinda miss the point of phantasy star. {Players vs the evil threat of dark falz/Profound darkness}.

What chapter was it where they had a tournament?

Chapter 9.5 or 11 or some shit? >_>

But yeah, that story chapter where they had shounen anime tournament.

Anyhow I just want class vs class, preset stats/equips or something.

I just wanna hit my friends in the face.

If it sucks then keep PVEin'. <_<

[~Aya~]

What chapter was it where they had a tournament?

Chapter 9.5 or 11 or some shit? >_>

But yeah, that story chapter where they had shounen anime tournament.

Anyhow I just want class vs class, preset stats/equips or something.

I just wanna hit my friends in the face.

If it sucks then keep PVEin'. <_<

/grabby hands and teary eyes~

W-we could finally destroy eachother...

[NoiseHERO]

/grabby hands and teary eyes~

W-we could finally destroy eachother...

You'll run out of assault busters eventually.......................

[ShinMaruku]

PVP? They would have to overhaul the system add pvp stats pvp game rules, scale attacks differently balance the game.. No they are hit and miss on pve pvp would have to be near flawless to take off, and this is NOT.

[AgemFrostMage]

If they can figure out how to not make it suck, sure. I dunno if they're capable of doing that though, since every Phantasy Star game I've played had loltastic PVP.

Wanna win? Be a Force.

Except in PSP2, then be a Vanguard, and pit your Vangard against other people's Vangards!

horray.

...f***n' hate that game.

But yeah, if they can competently balance out Ranger/Gunner's "lol ur airborn now kiddie."

Force's Talis>Zondeel>Rafoie>Zondeel>Rafoie>Zondeel>Rafoie...oh, you're dead, I didn't even chip a nail.

then sure.

but until then,

No.

God no.

No God please no.

Noooooooooooooooooo.

"Force's Talis>Zondeel>Rafoie>Zondeel>Rafoie>Zondeel>Rafoie ...oh, you're dead, I didn't even chip a nail."

It sounds like it the darker fish strategy but with safoie instead. Wait for the school to bite, zondeel, safoie, step away. Best to neutralize the flying because is random the path.

[~Aya~]

You'll run out of assault busters eventually.......................


/looks at 181 pp and then at the reach of Rokku's knuckles

/animu gazes out into distance. One day... one day...

[Valkyrie Lovrina]

this topic went exactly as I figured it would. oh PSOW :lol:

@ topic: *sigh* Maybe someday well have (hopefully balanced) PvP/Battle Mode. for now, well just continue killing moronic AI. :wacko:

[jooozek]

couldn't care less about pvp, especially when pve is such a mess

[Zyrusticae]

I'd rather have a true survival mode.

Starts off with the current level of spawns you expect in a normal VH run, escalates to AQ level spawns, escalates to XQ level spawns (with two bosses and stuff), then escalates even further to ridiculous spawns like 3-way boss battles with minions everywhere. Eventually you have stuff like 20 Kuklonahda and Cyclonehda attacking you simultaneously and it's just like what the fuuuuuuuuuuuuu-

That would be fun. Easy as hell to make, too, which is why it baffles me that it hasn't happened already.

I really hope Super Very Hard is a big change (but, y'know, it probably won't be).

[Neferpitou]

I rather sleep than play one of those League of Legends type games.
160k+ viewers is more than enough proof of terrible game it is.

That's just viewers of streams, their player base is so high that it's already Valve's most popular game. Servers are already at their maximum capacity, there are millions of players and at least half a million playing at the same time. That's very close to League of Legends which is the most popular game online.

So it's not a terrible game, not even close. It's the second most popular game in the world and coming close to first.

The only reason I don't play Dota 2 is I used to spend wayy too many hours a day on it and I've got too much going on in life right now so I have to stick with console games.

In regards to this topic, if I'm going to play a PvP game it would be Dota 2. I'm playing this game for its PvE experience since it's similar and better than Monster Hunter imo.

Edit: Just to backup that fact, their prize pool is currently 2.5 Million USD for their upcoming championship. The highest of any other game if im not mistaken.

Also, 160k concurrent viewers is 4800 USD per hour towards the gaming scene. And streams can last the entire day... that's 100k USD they make a day from streams. As much as a love this game I doubt pso2 gets that even a month :P

[Shirokami]

That's just viewers of streams, their player base is so high that it's already Valve's most popular game. Servers are already at their maximum capacity, there are millions of players and at least half a million playing at the same time. That's very close to League of Legends which is the most popular game online.

So it's not a terrible game, not even close. It's the second most popular game in the world and coming close to first.

The only reason I don't play Dota 2 is I used to spend wayy too many hours a day on it and I've got too much going on in life right now so I have to stick with console games.

In regards to this topic, if I'm going to play a PvP game it would be Dota 2. I'm playing this game for its PvE experience since it's similar and better than Monster Hunter imo.

Edit: Just to backup that fact, their prize pool is currently 2.5 Million USD for their upcoming championship. The highest of any other game if im not mistaken.

Just to let you know, we live in a world in which in the past 15 years, the shittier something is, the more popular it is.
I'd love if someone could prove me wrong.

[gigawuts]

I'd rather have a true survival mode.

Starts off with the current level of spawns you expect in a normal VH run, escalates to AQ level spawns, escalates to XQ level spawns (with two bosses and stuff), then escalates even further to ridiculous spawns like 3-way boss battles with minions everywhere. Eventually you have stuff like 20 Kuklonahda and Cyclonehda attacking you simultaneously and it's just like what the fuuuuuuuuuuuuu-

That would be fun. Easy as hell to make, too, which is why it baffles me that it hasn't happened already.

I really hope Super Very Hard is a big change (but, y'know, it probably won't be).

I would play the hell out of this, especially if they added turrets. I want automated turrets. I don't care who gets it or where or how or what. I. Want. Turrets.

[~Aya~]

Should be random super monster encounters where you gotta run away and survive while getting other monsters thrown at you and obstacles. Sense of urgency? Fear? yesplz


Also, mario kart 64 battle = best PvP in the worlt.

[HIT0SHI]

I'd rather have a true survival mode.

Starts off with the current level of spawns you expect in a normal VH run, escalates to AQ level spawns, escalates to XQ level spawns (with two bosses and stuff), then escalates even further to ridiculous spawns like 3-way boss battles with minions everywhere. Eventually you have stuff like 20 Kuklonahda and Cyclonehda attacking you simultaneously and it's just like what the fuuuuuuuuuuuuu-

That would be fun. Easy as hell to make, too, which is why it baffles me that it hasn't happened already.

I really hope Super Very Hard is a big change (but, y'know, it probably won't be).

That sounds amazing!!!
[SPOILER-BOX]http://pic.jpgdump.com/18135.jpg[/SPOILER-BOX]

[Neferpitou]

Just to let you know, we live in a world in which in the past 15 years, the shittier something is, the more popular it is.
I'd love if someone could prove me wrong.

Popular games: The Last of Us, Bioshock Infinite, Tomb Raider, Uncharted Series and God of War series to name a few.

Those were really popular and were amazing. The Last of Us received a 9.5/10 rating from IMBD, Bioshock Infinite 9.7/10, Tomb Raider 9.5/10 etc...

Games I think are shit but popular: WoW, LoL and CoD.

So it can be either way I guess, but were talking about the second most popular game in the world, I've tried it and its pretty good once you get into it (Dota 2).

[Cyron Tanryoku]

Hunter vs Force and Gunner double team

Hunter wins because it's me

Yall scrubs

[Rosel]

We talk about it like that because they can't. They can't even balance pve. It is so horrendously easy to balance PVE and they repeatedly and consistently go out of their way to do an awful job of it.

It's not the SEGA "can't" do these things.

They just don't really care about the quality of the game, they're probably using it as extra cash flow for Sonic and other big titles.

They probably are only using the bare minimum of money/manpower on PSO2.

[Z-0]

I'd rather have a true survival mode.

Starts off with the current level of spawns you expect in a normal VH run, escalates to AQ level spawns, escalates to XQ level spawns (with two bosses and stuff), then escalates even further to ridiculous spawns like 3-way boss battles with minions everywhere. Eventually you have stuff like 20 Kuklonahda and Cyclonehda attacking you simultaneously and it's just like what the fuuuuuuuuuuuuu-

That would be fun. Easy as hell to make, too, which is why it baffles me that it hasn't happened already.

I really hope Super Very Hard is a big change (but, y'know, it probably won't be).
See, this is what I expected Extreme Quests to be. 1-a-day things like currently, but you get through as many floors before you die, or you do as many floors as you can in 30 minutes, with death / failing floor orders knocking off a minute or something.

But nope. :l

[~Aya~]

It's not the SEGA "can't" do these things.

They just don't really care about the quality of the game, they're probably using it as extra cash flow for Sonic and other big titles.

They probably are only using the bare minimum of money/manpower on PSO2.


Why does this make me sad?

[gravityvx]

Pedantry.

You say that it would be simple to institute a balanced mode. For what purpose would this be done, if not to have balanced PvP? You proposed this balanced mode as a solution to people asserting that PvP in this game would be unbalanced. So if this balanced mode doesn't achieve that purpose, it's no solution at all. And it wouldn't achieve that purpose, since equalizing gear wouldn't do jack all about the class balance.

Have you guys never played a game with equalized PVP? Sure doesn't seem like it with how you're completely missing the point. It's not to balance classes, it's balance the playing field between players with set gear,set stats, set cooldowns for skills. Saying any game is balanced, especially in competeive play is completely stupid. Essentially you would be given two skill trees to use as you see fit, to adapt to different match ups and to compliment the set in stone stats you're given. So yes, the purpose is achieved, a more fun/less annoying environment to PVP in, as the other choice would be face said unbalanced classes with their unrestricted skill tree/stats/gear.

Example of a normal PVP match, fully geared 4 sloted newman force rocking a lvl3 latent psycho wand vs, well anyone. Odds of them winning regardless of them being good or not? Very high.

Balance mode, all races, weapons, units, mags, have stats & skill tree multipliers balanced evenly. Cooldowns set to certain times, more than likely certain techs would even have cooldowns, weak bullet would have its multiplier cut half along with only being able to use one shot with a high cooldown. With things like that in place it equals the playing ground for all players, unbalanced classes would still be strong regardless just because what they have at their disposal, but it would be far less "stressful" putting up with facing them, giving you a fair chance at winning based on how well you play.

Whether sega is capable of doing it or not doesn't make wanting a balance mode any less valid. As it's far more fun than just playing another RNG game with them wondering how well geared your opponent is.

[Du1337]

Maybe they can have more battle like mini games. Like they spread 30 rappies in an area, team that gets them all first wins. Or, release 10 gel wulfs in a small area and see who can evade the best. Stuff like that.

[gigawuts]

Have you guys never played a game with equalized PVP? Sure doesn't seem like it with how you're completely missing the point. It's not to balance classes, it's balance the playing field between players with set gear,set stats, set cooldowns for skills. Saying any game is balanced, especially in competeive play is completely stupid. Essentially you would be given two skill trees to use as you see fit, to adapt to different match ups and to compliment the set in stone stats you're given. So yes, the purpose is achieved, a more fun/less annoying environment to PVP in, as the other choice would be face said unbalanced classes with their unrestricted skill tree/stats/gear.

Example of a normal PVP match, fully geared 4 sloted newman force rocking a lvl3 latent psycho wand vs, well anyone. Odds of them winning regardless of them being good or not? Very high.

Balance mode, all races, weapons, units, mags, have stats & skill tree multipliers balanced evenly. Cooldowns set to certain times, more than likely certain techs would even have cooldowns, weak bullet would have its multiplier cut half along with only being able to use one shot with a high cooldown. With things like that in place it equals the playing ground for all players, unbalanced classes would still be strong regardless just because what they have at their disposal, but it would be far less "stressful" putting up with facing them, giving you a fair chance at winning based on how well you play.

Whether sega is capable of doing it or not doesn't make wanting a balance mode any less valid. As it's far more fun than just playing another RNG game with them wondering how well geared your opponent is.

This is exactly my point, though. All this work? Not gonna happen. We're not talking about wanting, shit I want lots of things. Doesn't mean it's going to happen. Since it's not going to be done even slightly close to properly, I don't want it at all.

And, yes, there is such a thing as a game that at least attempts to approach balance, contrary to what many people believe. The difference between perfect balance and attempted balance is the later can be accomplished to good success with relative ease.

[Shirokami]

Popular games: The Last of Us, Bioshock Infinite, Tomb Raider, Uncharted Series and God of War series to name a few.

Those were really popular and were amazing. The Last of Us received a 9.5/10 rating from IMBD, Bioshock Infinite 9.7/10, Tomb Raider 9.5/10 etc...

Games I think are shit but popular: WoW, LoL and CoD.

So it can be either way I guess, but were talking about the second most popular game in the world, I've tried it and its pretty good once you get into it (Dota 2).

Go ahead, try any other game that it's not one of those popular ones.
Anything from the Shin Megami Tensei series will make you see any of those titles you mentioned a pile of poop.

[holmwood]

They can't even balance classes for PvE properly, what makes you think PvP would be anything but a disaster? PvP like in most other MMORPGs just wouldn't work here.

I'd rather have a pseudo PvP mode where two teams fight against monster waves (separate from each other), and depending on how well they do the waves for the other team become more difficult. I think Zyru suggesting something like that in another topic.

Some kind of competitive aspect like this would be great.

As for authentic pvp, what if we made everyone stuck in fps mode. . . (forces can spam techs, but they do have pp limitations....)

[Neferpitou]

Go ahead, try any other game that it's not one of those popular ones.
Anything from the Shin Megami Tensei series will make you see any of those titles you mentioned a pile of poop.

I've played Shin Megami Tensei series, I loved Persona 4 and Nocturne for the PS2. And I loved Bioshock Infinite and The Last of Us.

There is nothing stopping people playing both, I don't get why certain games have to be 'shit' since you play a different type of genre.

That's like saying since you watch anime you shouldn't enjoy watching American movies like Iron man or TV Series like Game of Thrones just as an example.

I've watched Anime all my life and played J-RPG series such as the 'Tales of' series, Monster Hunter, Final Fantasy, Xenosaga etc. It doesn't mean I don't enjoy other games of different genre's.

Other popular games: Pokemon, fuck yeah. and Fallout series was pretty good.

[SakuRei]

I'm convinced that the only remaining way for SEGA to salvage this game is if they add a couple of decent PVP modes.

Possible some team-based, round-based PVP and a death match in some enclosed arena versions of the existing maps.

The reason is because they can't update fun content for crap and there's nothing to do.

Games with PVP last much longer without updates than purely PVE games. If they're going to be lazy adding new stuff, they should add least let us bash eachother's heads in while we wait.

Anyone agree? :-?

I would rather a highly cooperative PVE experience but it's just not happening. PVP won't suffer from the game's horrible AI and it would encourage teamwork which isn't needed anywhere else in the game.


Sorry to say but PSO2 having PvP system is just plain BS. Like what, having PvP will only bring more unfriendly community instead of having a good competition between players thus increasing the so-called "FEELING/WANNABE TROLLS" in-game, plus imbalanced classes if PvP was implemented, like come on, even for a Hu/Ra for example just WB then equip a weapon and gear with good stats (Power III Quartz Soul & Atk Boost and unlocked potential with +10 grind for example) Ever wanting to see where you enter the PvP and you can't even move when your opponent starts to attack? That would be unfair right? Even Just Guarding or Invincible Step won't save you as well... or Pure class Force users (Spam the Grants!! = Panic buff...Oh I have light resistance!~ Still that won't save you LOL EAT ALL OF THE DAMAGE! EAT IT!! >BO ) I'd rather stick to a non-PvP type of online game where you only rage if someone doesn't cooperate with your party than getting beat up in the PvP lots of times and those so-called boasting high ranking classes in PvP or top players owning in PvP where you need to watch out for their names once you see them etc. etc.

I've seen lots of Online Games (mostly majority of every MMORPG) with PvP system, most of them are dying or already dead nowadays...

[SakoHaruo]

Too many dame problems with this game for PvP

- Lock on is too OP

- Loli shit > gameplay difficulty

If we can get pass those two we might have a chance.

Also, I agree that Sega could make good PvP, but since the community doesn't care about gameplay, they don't either. Sega would have to put a stop to all the outtfits first. The rage from all they're fans would be fucking hilarious lol

[kabutozero]

Just look at rift for example , when you enter a warfront ( group pvp) you get a buff that balances your power ( if it is too low for your level it increases or if it is too high for your level it downs it a tad , until level 60 where you just get the starter pvp gear , which doesn't make things too hard against latest gear) , skills , etc , depending on if youre under or over geared , pvp exclusive skills , many things could be implemented on pvp to balance it


Melee only skill : Tenacity : Damage from techs and ranged attacks in pvp reduced by 60 % , ranged chars would get one but for melee damage but maybe only 20 %.

Add a pvp only skill that would be like a dash only for melee characters , things like that

[ArcaneTechs]

TB+Zondeel (or w/e the name is)+zonde= it's over.

Besides I can keep my distance using Rafoie or Zonde or any on impact spells so then I can brag about it to everyone.

But no, pvp is long gone and should stay that way

[Shirai]

I bet this has probably been said, but

PVP would probably be way too buggy...
It'd also have to be scaled most likely, and too much work for SEGA. ok.

[Zenobia]

They should not implement PvP. I'm too good of a HU for that.


I don't want to be the reason for ship 2 rage quitters.

No no Aya sit down none of that.

If pvp was put in here I would be dodging way to much than what I would want to. I know one thing only 2 weps I would use would be GS=Additional Bullet and Wired Lance+Other Spin for that spin To Win montage.

I could just use Assault buster though.

[NoiseHERO]

That's a pretty ignorant and close-minded way of saying it.

No it was a openly passive aggressive and condescending way of saying it. 8D

[Xaelouse]

Zyrusticae's idea is the only good and doable idea in this thread.

[Zenobia]

does pso2 actually do anything correctly (design-wise)?

Hey at least you get your rappy suits. I mean come one DAT SUMMER RAPPY IS AWESOME!:wacko:

[SakoHaruo]

TB+Zondeel (or w/e the name is)+zonde= it's over.

Besides I can keep my distance using Rafoie or Zonde or any on impact spells so then I can brag about it to everyone.

But no, pvp is long gone and should stay that way

Fi/Hu would destroy Force. How are you going to charge attacks when I'm in your face? How will you get away when I'm in your face?

Fi/Hu has the best option select and vortex in the game. Once I knock you down I can time Overend to hit as soon as you come out of recovery. If you attack me your dead. Overend has armor, so I'll take that tech damage while you eat my Overend. If you mirage dash to avoid getting hit I can dash cancel out of overend and punish you. repeat this till you die.

how will I get in? triple dash/partizan dash and just guard your techs with my sword or parry them with twin daggers. Also, I can hear when you charge techs.

[Kilich]

They just need to add vehicles only pvp, like Border Break. For example, customizable mizers would do the job.

[gigawuts]

til fi/hu can teleport everywhere immediately as soon as sakoharuo wants and is immune to uncharged tech spam and can just guard everything ever even from players they can't see

[Zenobia]

TB+Zondeel (or w/e the name is)+zonde= it's over.

Besides I can keep my distance using Rafoie or Zonde or any on impact spells so then I can brag about it to everyone.

But no, pvp is long gone and should stay that way

Dude all I have to do as soon as match starts is assault buster right in your damn face and be like" What are you gonna do?" cause I will tell ya now assault buster=traveling distance your ass is grass.

Only one thing will save you, you better hope that dome is big as fuck cause if its small hohohoh well I wont even explain its a 50/50 chance then.

Either im getting Rafoied or im assault bustering into safe zone.

[jooozek]

best part about those fi/hu bits is a force could as well go hu/fo and use coat edge d and cast from the bar

[ArcaneTechs]

Fi/Hu would destroy Force. How are you going to charge attacks when I'm in your face? How will you get away when I'm in your face?

Fi/Hu has the best option select and vortex in the game. Once I knock you down I can time Overend to hit as soon as you come out of recovery. If you attack me your dead. Overend has armor, so I'll take that tech damage while you eat my Overend. If you mirage dash to avoid getting hit I can dash cancel out of overend and punish you. repeat this till you die.

how will I get in? triple dash/partizan dash and just guard your techs with my sword or parry them with twin daggers. Also, I can hear when you charge techs.

all i have to do is use Za-Zan or w/e the Wind lifting spell is and start setting up. Even with the Barta tree built up with high chance of freeze rates using Rabarta that I can freeze you and set up there. Your also assuming I would mirage dash during your final or 2nd to last hit with Over end on how slow it is, even using Gifoie while your still doing OE I could get you flinching once your out of the animation.

STEP IT UP

[ArcaneTechs]

Dude all I have to do as soon as match starts is assault buster right in your damn face and be like" What are you gonna do?" cause I will tell ya now assault buster=traveling distance your ass is grass.

Only one thing will save you, you better hope that dome is big as fuck cause if its small hohohoh well I wont even explain its a 50/50 chance then.

Either im getting Rafoied or im assault bustering into safe zone.

We're assuming small pvp rooms or big rooms, if small, surrounding spells for flinching/spam, if large rooms, distant Rafoie or Zonde

[gigawuts]

best part about those fi/hu bits is a force could as well go hu/fo and use coat edge d and cast from the bar

I know, when someone was saying "just give hu a skill to reduce ranged damage and ra a skill to reduce melee damage" it was all I could do to not laugh and point out that ra/hu is the current fotm, making it better at both than any combination of melee classes

[NoiseHERO]

Only thing this game needs to balance PVP is back stab attacks.

[gigawuts]

Only thing this game needs to balance PVP is back stab attacks.

yeah sako's got that covered with his teleporting assault busters with wise stance

[ArcaneTechs]

Only thing this game needs to balance PVP is back stab attacks.

Put in Halo assassination animations and CoD knifing and we'll have some kind of work of art.....no that would be bad haha

[Zenobia]

We're assuming small pvp rooms or big rooms, if small, surrounding spells for flinching/spam, if large rooms, distant Rafoie or Zonde

If small room you still have to charge your AOE FO skills for them to be of any use. All I gotta do press a button.

If big room I can honestly say I just have to stay out of lock on range of you, which honestly will be hard as hell >.> so I know I would lose or get chipped away.

Also on that halo note add The Juggernaut 8D!

[jooozek]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XGk7OuNKsAA"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XGk7OuNKsAA

just remembered this vid

also, this


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pOBd-r_kSS0"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pOBd-r_kSS0

[Zenobia]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XGk7OuNKsAA

just remembered this vid

Mad skills dat Dat Magic Knight!

[ArcaneTechs]

If small room you still have to charge your AOE FO skills for them to be of any use. All I gotta do press a button.

If big room I can honestly say I just have to stay out of lock on range of you, which honestly will be hard as hell >.> so I know I would lose or get chipped away.

Also on that halo note add The Juggernaut 8D!

how small of a room are we talking here? all i can think of is something about the size of maybe 1 or 2 campship rooms which obviously i can be at somewhat of a disadvantage if i can somehow dodge most of your charges, if anything i would probably win 1/4 varying on the small room size

[SakoHaruo]

all i have to do is use Za-Zan or w/e the Wind lifting spell is and start setting up. Even with the Barta tree built up with high chance of freeze rates using Rabarta that I can freeze you and set up there. Your also assuming I would mirage dash during your final or 2nd to last hit with Over end on how slow it is, even using Gifoie while your still doing OE I could get you flinching once your out of the animation.

STEP IT UP

nice. but, you will get hit my overend on wake up because you wont even see it coming. I'm abusing the lag to win :-P

[ArcaneTechs]

nice. but, you will get hit my overend on wake up because you wont even see it coming. I'm abusing the lag to win :-P

granted you can get past my laptops overheating framerates that make dodging and attacking easy to avoid :3

[Zenobia]

how small of a room are we talking here? all i can think of is something about the size of maybe 1 or 2 campship rooms which obviously i can be at somewhat of a disadvantage if i can somehow dodge most of your charges, if anything i would probably win 1/4 varying on the small room size

You must be assuming I dunno how to triple dash and double dash on my HUor any other mechanic?

Also im talking about rooms to suit the player don't think we would have a huge ass room for a 1 on 1 fight right? But yeah it varies.

Maybe they should throw in teleports and jump pads to make it more interesting.

Also you 2 are lag narbs 8D stop using dial up<3!

[Kilich]

I was kinda serious with the mech idea. Sega has BB, so they should know how to balance that.

[ArcaneTechs]

You must be assuming I dunno how to triple dash and double dash on my HUor any other mechanic?

Also im talking about rooms to suit the player don't think we would have a huge ass room for a 1 on 1 fight right? But yeah it varies.

Maybe they should throw in teleports and jump pads to make it more interesting.

Also you 2 are lag narbs 8D stop using dial up<3!

can already see you doing a charge attack if we both went off the lift at the same time if we could use attacks during then haha or as i go off a lift your right there waiting with that charge at full.

and why not a large room? if 2 hunters were triple/double dashing, it would fit nicely

as for lag mmm i've got a perfect connection just pso2 takes a lot of my laptops CPU so ive had situations where i should have gotten hit and i dont, even on a stable run of pso2, its more slow down than anything

[Zenobia]

can already see you doing a charge attack if we both went off the lift at the same time if we could use attacks during then haha or as i go off a lift your right there waiting with that charge at full.

and why not a large room? if 2 hunters were triple/double dashing, it would fit nicely

as for lag mmm i've got a perfect connection just pso2 takes a lot of my laptops CPU so ive had situations where i should have gotten hit and i dont, even on a stable run of pso2, its more slow down than anything

Oh nah the lag narb thing was sarcasm 8D!

[ArcaneTechs]

Oh nah the lag narb thing was sarcasm 8D!

ahh i see haha

[Kamekur]

Fi/Hu would destroy Force. How are you going to charge attacks when I'm in your face? How will you get away when I'm in your face?

Fi/Hu has the best option select and vortex in the game. Once I knock you down I can time Overend to hit as soon as you come out of recovery. If you attack me your dead. Overend has armor, so I'll take that tech damage while you eat my Overend. If you mirage dash to avoid getting hit I can dash cancel out of overend and punish you. repeat this till you die.

how will I get in? triple dash/partizan dash and just guard your techs with my sword or parry them with twin daggers. Also, I can hear when you charge techs.


Lmfao. Overend in pvp? You just made my day. It's true that you can close in with triple step and assault buster (each step has plenty of invincibility frames, though you can't say the same for ASB), but you're kinda forgetting Forces have both long ranged shooting techs, and AoE close range techs that can be used to defend themselves.
A fire Force could just instantly cast a gifoie in your face when you're close, and let the tech kill you while you're stuck in your superarmor. Even if you don't die, you're still vulnerable for enough time for the Force to mirage away and cast 2 Foies in your face. Even if you don't have the stupid idea of using Overend, Gifoie would still flinch you to death.

The odds of a melee winning vs. a force in pvp, in their current state, are almost null.

It'd be more like a hunter (the force) shooting their prey down (the melee).

[NoiseHERO]

yeah sako's got that covered with his teleporting assault busters with wise stance

Then it just need an obnoxious trolly taunt that you can do after killing someone in the cheapest way, and we'll have Dark Souls lite!

[Gardios]

I was kinda serious with the mech idea. Sega has BB, so they should know how to balance that.

We could just play BB, though.

If only they ported it to consoles... ;_;

[SakoHaruo]

granted you can get past my laptops overheating framerates that make dodging and attacking easy to avoid :3

lol guess I'll have to adapt



Lmfao. Overend in pvp? You just made my day. It's true that you can close in with triple step and assault buster (each step has plenty of invincibility frames, though you can't say the same for ASB), but you're kinda forgetting Forces have both long ranged shooting techs, and AoE close range techs that can be used to defend themselves.
A fire Force could just instantly cast a gifoie in your face when you're close, and let the tech kill you while you're stuck in your superarmor. Even if you don't die, you're still vulnerable for enough time for the Force to mirage away and cast 2 Foies in your face. Even if you don't have the stupid idea of using Overend, Gifoie would still flinch you to death.

The odds of a melee winning vs. a force in pvp, in their current state, are almost null.

It'd be more like a hunter (the force) shooting their prey down (the melee).

see, the problem with your theory is that everything you said requires a stable internet connection from both players. you can't hit me with instant techs if I'm lag dashing all over the map, and best part is I can go straight into assault buster from a triple dash. once I'm in your face there is NOTHING you can do, so relax and take it easy o3o


there are too many mechanics build in the Fi/Hu weapons, Fi/Hu vs Fo/whatever is a 8/2 match up by default, just thinking about the all BS in the games current form is hilarious. again, I'm abusing lag to win.

and screw you Zenobia lol

[Kamekur]

lol guess I'll have to adapt




see, the problem with your theory is that everything you said requires a stable internet connection from both players. you can't hit me with instant techs if I'm lag dashing all over the map, and best part is I can go straight into assault buster from a triple dash. once I'm in your face there is NOTHING you can do, so relax and take it easy o3o


there are too many mechanics build in the Fi/Hu weapons, Fi/Hu vs Fo/whatever is a 8/2 match up by default, just thinking about the all BS in the games current form is hilarious. again, I'm abusing lag to win.

and screw you Zenobia lol

Uh... Both mob and player positions are client based. Meaning if the force hits you in their screen they'll hit you. Are you assuming no one but you can triple step? Because you're dead wrong. Also, you do still stop with overend. I don't know what delusion do you have with that PA being able to even hit before they just mirage away.

Edit: By the way, thanks for not reading me at all and completely disregarding what I pointed out about Gifoie.
Edit2: Here's the proof to my statement about player position. Fast forward to Ragne area (around 2:50)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xtN1YoPCfz0
Look how Tomia sees herself as if she was dashing next to Syhon.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WWc-Ua4Lnqk

And here, Syhon doesn't even see Tomia.

[gigawuts]

Then it just need an obnoxious trolly taunt that you can do after killing someone in the cheapest way, and we'll have Dark Souls lite!

dark souls? please


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Crmn4MqUd3Y

running around doing a laugh taunt and backstabbing at the same time

[Kamekur]

/la cam will do to take a picture of their dead corpse. Also, that video. I lol'd.

I remembered I used to play that game sometimes. Too bad it is 80% fashion, 20% actual gameplay. Oh wait...

[Walkure]

Uh... Both mob and player positions are client based. Meaning if the force hits you in their screen they'll hit you.
Players getting hit is also client-based. You can see this most obviously in Sanctum TAs at the last button. If everyone just sits and dodges/JGs with a large ping, they'll take the flinch animation, not receive damage, and THEN do the guard/dodge animation. It makes sense to assume that'd be the case in PvP, as well.

Of course, with international ping involved this'd make PvP mostly a clusterfuck for players in NA playing on JP servers regardless of how well it could otherwise be implemented.

[Zenobia]

Players getting hit is also client-based. You can see this most obviously in Sanctum TAs at the last button. If everyone just sits and dodges/JGs with a large ping, they'll take the flinch animation, not receive damage, and THEN do the guard/dodge animation. It makes sense to assume that'd be the case in PvP, as well.

Of course, with international ping involved this'd make PvP mostly a clusterfuck for players in NA playing on JP servers regardless of how well it could otherwise be implemented.

Beat me to it.

[~Aya~]

Ping/lag will have nothing to do with the outcome of our fight~

I am clearly the winner

[Z-0]

Damage calculation is server-based, both in getting hit and causing damage.

Also you could inflict damage on others in the past so lag doesn't matter. "Lag dashing all over the place" wouldn't make you avoid damage.

[Kamekur]

Players getting hit is also client-based. You can see this most obviously in Sanctum TAs at the last button. If everyone just sits and dodges/JGs with a large ping, they'll take the flinch animation, not receive damage, and THEN do the guard/dodge animation. It makes sense to assume that'd be the case in PvP, as well.

Of course, with international ping involved this'd make PvP mostly a clusterfuck for players in NA playing on JP servers regardless of how well it could otherwise be implemented.

That's right. But there's no such thing as teleporting because of lag.

But then that'd apply to forces too. They could just delay one tech a bit to avoid the melee predicting. Considering both of them were lagging, the melee wouldn't see the animation of the force releasing their tech...

Still, these are just speculations over some game mode that'll probably never be implemented.



Damage calculation is server-based, both in getting hit and causing damage.

Also you could inflict damage on others in the past so lag doesn't matter. "Lag dashing all over the place" wouldn't make you avoid damage.

Also, this. I've made damage as a ghost when I lagged really hard. It just registered later all at once.

Your character stands still when you lag, so you would recieve damage aswell in pvp.

What's more, if you were lagging in pvp, since damage calculation is server side, even if you made damage as "ghost" to the other player, his damage would reach the server first. Meaning you'd be killed being unable to do anything.

[SakoHaruo]

Uh... Both mob and player positions are client based. Meaning if the force hits you in their screen they'll hit you. Are you assuming no one but you can triple step? Because you're dead wrong. Also, you do still stop with overend. I don't know what delusion do you have with that PA being able to even hit before they just mirage away.

Edit: By the way, thanks for not reading me at all and completely disregarding what I pointed out about Gifoie.
Edit2: Here's the proof to my statement about player position. Fast forward to Ragne area (around 2:50)

?PSO2???????????? 3:22 ?4??FO/FI?? - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xtN1YoPCfz0)
Look how Tomia sees herself as if she was dashing next to Syhon.

?PSO2?VHTA?????????? 3:22 ?4??FiHu?? - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WWc-Ua4Lnqk)

And here, Syhon doesn't even see Tomia.



ah ok. I see. But you guys still keep dodging the question, what options (as a force) do you have against a Fighter once I'm in your face?

let's say you go Fo/Fi, at the start of the match the you have daggers/knuckles equip so you can dash around( I honestly don't know why you would even do this since you need to zone me the fack out and have your techs charge while I'm trying to get in), wouldn't that slow you down? And wouldn't that make it much easier for me to get in without talking any damage? of course it'll be good to use when you want to make some distance between us and you'd also know when it's safe to dash around, but it's not like the map has some kind of build in maze for you to run away and zone me all dame day.

About the overend, I said Fighter has the option select and vortex. fighting game terminology that you should look up.


Also, where the hell is this even taking place? Ragne boss stage? Ruins area 3? Fang Banther boss area?

[Kamekur]

let's say you go Fo/Fi, at the start of the match the you have daggers/knuckles equip so you can dash around( I honestly don't know why you would even do this since you need to zone me the fack out and have your techs charge while I'm trying to get in), wouldn't that slow you down? And wouldn't that make it much easier for me to get in without talking any damage? of course it'll be good to use when you want to make some distance between us and you'd also know when it's safe to dash around, but it's not like the map has some kind of build in maze for you to run away and zone me all dame day.

About the overend, I said Fighter has the option select and vortex. fighting game terminology that you should look up.


Also, where the hell is this even taking place? Ragne boss stage? Ruins area 3? Fang Banther boss area?

Why would I start the fight with movement tools equipped when I need distance?

And I said Ragne area.

Still not reading, I see. Do I need to mention Gifoie for the 3rd time as a close range defense tech? That tech can be easily spammed with S charge to make a barrier around them wide and fast enough to destroy any attempts of breaking through with an attack/stepping through.

Rabarta and Gibarta are way slower to cast, but they can freeze, and they hit multiple times.

Forces can throw bouncing Zan spam here and there to force you to block. Even if you parry the first hit, that tech bounces back and hits the melee fast enough.

There are homing techs like grants that will hit melees between steps. Which can lead to force the melee to constantly block. Also, grants inflicts panic. The inputs messing up right after the ailment hitting can lead to an opening.

Rafoie can be spammed really quick. But it can also be delayed to hit you between steps.

I agree that forces are doomed if the melee ever gets close. But only if they ever manage to do so.

[Laxedrane]

Why can't pvp jsut be nothing more then a bunch of people go in and twat each other with sticks? Who cares if it's balanced, who cares what's op. Just go in. Beat the shit out of someone or get your ass handed to you. Have fun and go on? Players can balance it themselves if they want to get serious.(No zondeel or whatever) I rather it be that way.

On the subject of silly mini-game alternatives. I rather them gank space channel 5s animation and allow us to have a team verse team dance off.

[Kamekur]

Why can't pvp jsut be nothing more then a bunch of people go in and twat each other with sticks? Who cares if it's balanced, who cares what's op. Just go in. Beat the shit out of someone or get your ass handed to you. Have fun and go on? Players can balance it themselves if they want to get serious.(No zondeel or whatever) I rather it be that way.

On the subject of silly mini-game alternatives. I rather them gank space channel 5s animation and allow us to have a team verse team dance off.

That'd be fun. Maybe some sort of minigame with a special weapon like Burning Rangers EQ?
Let's smack rappies with wands that look like frying pans! Lol.


What I'd really like some sort of Ranked XQs:

No exp, no drops, no passes needed. Beat the 50 floors as fast as you can and register your time at visiphone's leaderboards. Though that might be really similar to TAs.

[Vashyron]

Mini-game alternatives?

PSO2:EP3 C.A.R.D Revolution.

[gigawuts]

I hadn't thought of it before, but yeah I bet we get something card-related for episode 3. Derp.

The bad guys in ep 3 were referred to as "arks" right? Who's betting they bring back that exact organization, name and everything, to combat the arkz? :wacko:

[Zenobia]

Why would I start the fight with movement tools equipped when I need distance?

And I said Ragne area.

Still not reading, I see. Do I need to mention Gifoie for the 3rd time as a close range defense tech? That tech can be easily spammed with S charge to make a barrier around them wide and fast enough to destroy any attempts of breaking through with an attack/stepping through.

Rabarta and Gibarta are way slower to cast, but they can freeze, and they hit multiple times.

Forces can throw bouncing Zan spam here and there to force you to block. Even if you parry the first hit, that tech bounces back and hits the melee fast enough.

There are homing techs like grants that will hit melees between steps. Which can lead to force the melee to constantly block. Also, grants inflicts panic. The inputs messing up right after the ailment hitting can lead to an opening.

Rafoie can be spammed really quick. But it can also be delayed to hit you between steps.

I agree that forces are doomed if the melee ever gets close. But only if they ever manage to do so.

Keep in mind though a lot fo those techs you named need to be charged to be of any use.

Gifoie yeah its good but its real effectiveness comes from being fully charged this also goes for Grants, Gigrantz, Gibarta, Rabarta, Zan, these are but of many that need to be charged to do any kinda of justice.

Now honestly if you really wanna talk about safe play against a hunter when they get in your face then you have techs like.

Zondeel, Gizan, Nazan, Ramegid for close up match ups some of them you could kite with pulling out a gunslash for troll while HU/FI's try to go round your wall of Ramegid's.

If you really wanted to troll hard go TE/HU have a wand and persona sword or Madams umbrella give us HU/FI'sa run for our money.

You've seen how HU/FI utilize there dashed and triple dashes and what not so keep that in mind as well.

[ArcaneTechs]

Lmfao. Overend in pvp? You just made my day. It's true that you can close in with triple step and assault buster (each step has plenty of invincibility frames, though you can't say the same for ASB), but you're kinda forgetting Forces have both long ranged shooting techs, and AoE close range techs that can be used to defend themselves.
A fire Force could just instantly cast a gifoie in your face when you're close, and let the tech kill you while you're stuck in your superarmor. Even if you don't die, you're still vulnerable for enough time for the Force to mirage away and cast 2 Foies in your face. Even if you don't have the stupid idea of using Overend, Gifoie would still flinch you to death.

The odds of a melee winning vs. a force in pvp, in their current state, are almost null.

It'd be more like a hunter (the force) shooting their prey down (the melee).

this, thank you, depending on room size again, i have plenty of time to cast Gifoie, a quick 30 sec buff and Gifoie again with non stop flinching and yes, my Fire tree is maxed, good luck on those burns. Even with your lag switching I would have already put out a Gifoie around me so theres no getting out of it once your in it. *directed toward the other guy)

Besides, I can always shotgun you with Na Zan once that last flinch hits and get distance on you while casting Gifoie so you don't get the move on me. I can always use Ramegid as well and not let you move from that either or Rabarta.

Can Always spam Zan too to keep cutting of your attacks GRANTED you managed to get all three buster attacks in or however many you have

[ArcaneTechs]

I mean even with a Talis you would probably never get near a force or techer, setups from when you get close to me, get some distance while making you flinch, throw out a card, use zondeel and play keep away some more

[Lostbob117]

Mini-game alternatives?

PSO2:EP3 C.A.R.D Revolution.

Duel Gazers or whatever it's called, everywhere?

[Kamekur]

Keep in mind though a lot fo those techs you named need to be charged to be of any use.

Gifoie yeah its good but its real effectiveness comes from being fully charged this also goes for Grants, Gigrantz, Gibarta, Rabarta, Zan, these are but of many that need to be charged to do any kinda of justice.

Now honestly if you really wanna talk about safe play against a hunter when they get in your face then you have techs like.

Zondeel, Gizan, Nazan, Ramegid for close up match ups some of them you could kite with pulling out a gunslash for troll while HU/FI's try to go round your wall of Ramegid's.

If you really wanted to troll hard go TE/HU have a wand and persona sword or Madams umbrella give us HU/FI'sa run for our money.

You've seen how HU/FI utilize there dashed and triple dashes and what not so keep that in mind as well.

I mentioned gifoie first because of flame S charge: It takes less than half a second to cast it, so you can just predict when will the melee approach. The others I mentioned are for a wider range/wider prediction gap.

I discarded zondeel because I think most players would forbid it: It's kinda unfair to spam non-detonated zondeel to keep the enemy player there, given how this combat system works.

Gizan's damage is ridiculous and has no real utility.

Ramegid could be combined with talis zondeel, but it wouldn't have much of an utility standalone. Unless you catch the enemy player locked in an animation, it's really risky to use.

And I've always kept triple dash into account. No need to tell me that as I'm a Fi/Hu-Ra/Hu main with a close to 60/60/60 Fo/Te/Fi who wouldn't play this game if I couldn't dash anymore.

[gigawuts]

Forbid? Fuck "forbid." Fuck you. You will die because I'll use every cheapass, OP, fad of the month bullshit tactic just to see you get mad in chat and when you come try to get me I'll have 3 of my lameass friends as pocket healers. I don't even care if my team wins, I'll just teamkill after I kick all your asses after a 720 noscoped rafoie. Scrubs.

[Kamekur]

Forbid? Fuck "forbid." Fuck you. You will die because I'll use every cheapass, OP, fad of the month bullshit tactic just to see you get mad in chat and when you come try to get me I'll have 3 of my lameass friends as pocket healers. I don't even care if my team wins, I'll just teamkill after I kick all your asses after a 720 noscoped rafoie. Scrubs.

DOOD Y U NO 1440. G3T 0N M1 L3\/3L 4/\/D 1V1 M3H: xXxXxMCsKeElzL33t$NyP3R1337xXxXx


But, now talking seriously. You could set some rules with your friends. Of course you can't expect randoms to play how'd you like them to.

[Zenobia]

Forbid? Fuck "forbid." Fuck you. You will die because I'll use every cheapass, OP, fad of the month bullshit tactic just to see you get mad in chat and when you come try to get me I'll have 3 of my lameass friends as pocket healers. I don't even care if my team wins, I'll just teamkill after I kick all your asses after a 720 noscoped rafoie. Scrubs.

^LMFAO THIS POST.

Also FORBID? Are you nuts there are no morals in pvp anything goes if you decide to hold yourself back because you think its unfair then you're just at pvp lol and I will totally take advantage of that.

Also Gifoei like krill said depending on room size assult buster in your face is just as quick as you pulling off that Gifoie btw.

Gizan is a aoe move silly its a move you would want to use and quite unexpected its not about the sucky damage its about how its used, and in pvp it would have
quite the utility you obv do not go in depth on things like this I can tell.

Also I wouldn't recommend a talis it requires aiming and is to slow when you could have just use your rod. You're talking about the quick and nimbleness of a HU/FI player who is fully accustomed to how HU/FI works sure that shit would work on noos but no good HU/FI player would fall for that talis bs lol.

Same here HU/FI 60/60 FO/TE 60/60 but my heart goes to Melee all day err day baby.

You may be a HU/FI main but im gonna assume you only know so little about FO/TE to an extent remember this si pvp wise we are talking about not pve.

[Kamekur]

I actually discarded gizan not only because of it's damage, also because it's a wind technique. It doesn't charge as fast as gifoie, so it'd be a better defense.

We can't know if assault buster would reach to a force before they would get hit, since we can't test it. Yeah, talis are slow, but you can throw them twice and if you do it right, get them with an uncharged zondeel.

Please stop treating other people like if they all suck at the game. I think you're the only melee I've seen with my alts that uses sonic arrow at elder with a 9* lambda ardillo, not even 50 element. (lol)

[Zenobia]

I actually discarded gizan not only because of it's damage, also because it's a wind technique. It doesn't charge as fast as gifoie, so it'd be a better defense.

We can't know if assault buster would reach to a force before they would get hit, since we can't test it. Yeah, talis are slow, but you can throw them twice and if you do it right, get them with an uncharged zondeel.

Please stop treating other people like if they suck at the game. I think you're the only melee I've seen with my alts that uses sonic arrow at elder with a 9* lambda ardillo, not even 50 element. (lol)

Acutally I just don't have time ot keep switching my weps and armoro around for him and blocks get full to fast so I don't bother. Only time I use my real actual gear is in AQ's or EXQ's.

Oh btw I have a 10* sword you're the only one who made a fail attempt on what weps I have without full knowledge lawdeh!

Also with it not being 50% element btw I still hit for hellah damage lol soloed him before and killed him.

All my sword PA's are lvl 15 as well that actually goes for all of them lol.

[Kamekur]

Acutally I just don't have time ot keep switching my weps and armoro around for him and blocks get full to fast so I don't bother. Only time I use my real actual gear is in AQ's or EXQ's.

Oh btw I have a 10* sword you're the only one who made a fail attempt on what weps I have without full knowledge lawdeh!

Also with it not being 50% element btw I still hit for hellah damage lol soloed him before and killed him.

All my sword PA's are lvl 15 as well that actually goes for all of them lol.

Oh my, forgive me for not stalking you. Swords aren't still the best choice for Elder, Wired Lances and Sabers easily outclass them. By the way, what do you call "hellah damage"? I'm kinda curious. Just letting you now that average Fighters hit +16k per DA hit.

[gigawuts]

just gonna mention this now:

nagrants

that is all

[Zenobia]

Oh my, forgive me for not stalking you. Swords aren't still the best choice for Elder, Wired Lances and Sabers easily outclass them. By the way, what do you call "hellah damage"? I'm kinda curious.

No Swords is the best wep in the game cause how well balanced and how its PA's suit pretty much any outcome maybe if you didn't main FI/HU all the day you would know you said this same thing in another thread before only makes sense you bring it up again.

Wired lance are good but can sometimes aggravate the party with those grab pa's cause it kills people locks on especially forces which is why most use other spin there is a reason....

DS require placement and all you're doing is what spamming deadly archer single point damage pa it doesn't compare to sword with is many wide ranged cover OE its access to hit enemies in air Rising Slash , able to build gear fast off oc one sonic arrow toss on mobs oh yes please. It can stun which DS cannot do. Pls do not try to educate me on a class I pretty much know the ins and outs of even for FI.

I've extensively played with HU/FI of a long time to know what is best to use in many situation.

Food for thought a HU or FI who uses just one wep and doesn't try to experiment with he rest is a bad one. Play with you DS and be a Deadly Archer fanboy that's you not me.

Hellah damage is the same kinda damage I call when I break two of elders arms in one OE without WB anything else?

Also why stalk me I'm not that important. D:?

[Z-0]

There's no reason to use "more than one weapon" in this game though as a melee. :v Well, two, Sword, Partisan or Wired Lance for AoE and Double Saber for single target damage...

And Partisan with Double Saber wins.

They aren't bad players, they're just using what's most efficient.

[Gardios]

just gonna mention this now:

nagrants

that is all

Judging by the number of pages and the fact that no one wants to admit being wrong, I don't think anyone will really care about that.

[Z-0]

I can't even remember anything about Nagrants.

Did it do damage immediately or did you have to wait (ala... Namegid? man I don't even know anymore).

[gigawuts]

Nagrants is going to be a long duration AOE tech, just drop it on an area and watch it damage (flinch) anything that enters the area.

Which is hysterical.

Nafoie looked to be pretty similar.

[Zenobia]

Nagrants is going to be a long duration AOE tech, just drop it on an area and watch it damage (flinch) anything that enters the area.

Which is hysterical.

Nafoie looked to be pretty similar.

That one that looked like white air correct? That thing has a hellah stagger rate.

[Syklo]

I'd rather have a true survival mode.

Starts off with the current level of spawns you expect in a normal VH run, escalates to AQ level spawns, escalates to XQ level spawns (with two bosses and stuff), then escalates even further to ridiculous spawns like 3-way boss battles with minions everywhere. Eventually you have stuff like 20 Kuklonahda and Cyclonehda attacking you simultaneously and it's just like what the fuuuuuuuuuuuuu-

That would be fun. Easy as hell to make, too, which is why it baffles me that it hasn't happened already.

I really hope Super Very Hard is a big change (but, y'know, it probably won't be).
as much as i like this idea, it depends on how it will be rewarded, if at all.

[Rosel]

I'm honestly surprised people are so divided about it.

People, even if it ended up being really badly done and badly balanced... because of how player communities work with PVP games, I'm sure various strategies could still be made and there would be some competition and people could get SOMETHING out of it.

I mean, people would get some fun out of it, and if you hate it, you wouldn't have to do it.

Btw, I fucking LOL'd at the guy who said "it's not Phantasy Star!!" really? Oh no, the purity of the Phantasy Star series. LOL. We literally have advertisements plastered on in-game walls and on our loading screens and our character outfits are also advertisements, 99% of the game is half-assed. There's no purity to this series.

Also LOL'd at "it would bring in a toxic community!!" Most of our active English community is already meme-spammers and symbol art-spammers... I think the community could only get better with PVP players who are generally a little more 'serious'.

[Rosel]

The bottom line is that PVP could only make this game better... most people admit they have nothing to do on this game and it's incredibly boring outside of dress up. So what's really the issue?

[The Walrus]

It's taking time out of making the rest of the game for it. The game might actually...get worse :O

[gigawuts]

The bottom line is that PVP could only make this game better... most people admit they have nothing to do on this game and it's incredibly boring outside of dress up. So what's really the issue?

This is what they said about Bioshock 2, while repeatedly saying that the online multiplayer would not at all reduce the amount of content in the campaign.

I guess they planned on releasing a 60 dollar game with nothing but a 6 hour campaign before deciding to give it multiplayer too.

Resources they divert to PVP are resources they divert away from PVE - no ifs, ands, or buts about it. They also can't just arbitrarily pick up people working on other games, since that removes them from said other games (plus they need to familiarize themselves with a whole new game, its inner workings, what its existing players do/want, and they may even need to physically relocate to do it). They only have so many people with so many kinds of experience at any given time.

I'd rather see them improve and advance what the game has than tack on entire new, half-done things right next to the old half-done things.

[Rosel]

I already said that ideally I would rather them work diligently on improving the PVE aspect, but they've shown that they're not willing to put forth any effort to do that

If they do a PVP mode, it will hold up for long periods of time between updates much better than PVE content can

[Cortte]

Yeah see PvP sounds like a great idea and I would love to have it. But then I gotta hunt for my brand spakin' new PvP gear, or play 10,000 PvP matches to get one PvP unit with PvP points. Lets not forget about that AC PvP gear though. Complete with a 4 - 5 slot set of PvP affixes.

Which then ultimately becomes: "Can your GU/RA make me stumble before my FO/FI can make you stumble?" Or "Can my GU/RA Eradicate your worthless existence of a HU/FI with WB and CT before you're ready to strike." (I am a GU/RA and even I think PvP would be harshly one sided to that class combo)

[SakuRei]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XGk7OuNKsAA

just remembered this vid

also, this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pOBd-r_kSS0

http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTKnoaC8JwUUCqXyOMWOKoAdz2Gg8wgl rSIMwxnk-fIt94YMQOmsw


-F...F*ckinae...Th...that combo... I'm quite speechless... :-o

[Zenobia]

HU/FI will eradicate all other classes!

Its the truth<3

[gigawuts]

I already said that ideally I would rather them work diligently on improving the PVE aspect, but they've shown that they're not willing to put forth any effort to do that

If they do a PVP mode, it will hold up for long periods of time between updates much better than PVE content can

I get what you're saying, but...I mean, PS has titles that people still happily play for years on end, without any content updates at all. The content that already exists is just pretty darn well spaced out and balanced, with more stuff always on the horizon.

PSO2 could achieve that, but it doesn't, and I don't think it'd achieve a "good" PVP model either (quotes because this is a really subjective statement to make).

[Rosel]

PS has titles that people still happily play for years on end, without any content updates at all.

Past Phantasy Star titles. It's important to make that distinction.

[gigawuts]

Well, yeah, they're not exactly running multiple titles in parallel here.

[supersonix9]

they should add battle mode like in pso1, just for funsies. however...

probably just me, but i only really see pso as co-op.

[EvilMag]

they should add battle mode like in pso1, just for funsies. however...

probably just me, but i only really see pso as co-op.

I kinda wish that Arks battle tournament quest could be played with at least 1 other person.

[Macman]

I'd rather have a pseudo PvP mode where two teams fight against monster waves (separate from each other), and depending on how well they do the waves for the other team become more difficult. I think Zyru suggesting something like that in another topic.
Japanese PSOBB had something like that called LOGiN cup or something of the sort.
You split your 4 person party into pairs and were separated and had to race to the finish, collecting points through kills. If you reached special terminals hidden throughout the map, you could inflict status effects on the enemy team or force them to fight more monsters.
Was a lot of fun and I can see this game doing something similar with 3 4-player teams in an MPA.

[AgemFrostMage]

Past Phantasy Star titles. It's important to make that distinction.

I have the first one on Wii virtual console. I am at this cave and keep dying I keep getting an iron claw for Myau but always run out of TP and supplies. I can't find the cake shop anywhere =(

[angrysquid]

Rodeo Drive everything into afterlife...

[Dabian]

Oh look Episode 2 has hit.

Oh look people are too busy doing the new stuff to care about PVP.

[NoiseHERO]

Oh look Episode 2 has hit.

Oh look people are too busy doing the new stuff to care about PVP.

Oh look a dumbass!

I'm sorry that just slipped out.

[Dabian]

Oh look a dumbass!

I'm sorry that just slipped out.


Whoa don't take it out on me just because you didn't get the game mode you wanted.

[NoiseHERO]

Whoa don't take it out on me just because you didn't get the game mode you wanted.

You're right that was totally uncalled for, I have no excuse to call you a dumbass because your ignorant snide remark in a thread that may as well had no been bumped I was just in a horrible mood and didn't know the full story and I apologize.





Nah really doe.

[gigawuts]

He's got a point though.

The only reason anyone would want PVP in a game completely about PVE is the PVE content doesn't have any replayability. PVP is the lazy dev's path to giving a game replayability in a primarily PVE game.

[o0Kais0o]

Japanese PSOBB had something like that called LOGiN cup or something of the sort.
You split your 4 person party into pairs and were separated and had to race to the finish, collecting points through kills. If you reached special terminals hidden throughout the map, you could inflict status effects on the enemy team or force them to fight more monsters.
Was a lot of fun and I can see this game doing something similar with 3 4-player teams in an MPA.

Now this sounds pretty cool, I'd really like to see something like that implemented.

[gigawuts]

Also I was just talking the other day about the PVP mode being as easy as turning on friendly fire between different parties in an MPA. That's it. You could set a limit on max party size, and smaller party MPA's would get higher gains from enemies & codes.

Rewards? Experience.

Rares would be collected in the campship at a terminal like extreme quests have.

If you want to make it more detailed, each class would get a really tiny PVP skilltree only used in this with lots of 1 SP and 5 SP abilities, added on top of their regular skilltree. Stuff like an active ability for melee where ranged & tech attacks may miss, major resistance to AOE, rangers would get speedier cooldown on weak bullet (which would be severely nerfed to +50% instead of +200%), etc.

[NoiseHERO]

He's got a point though.

The only reason anyone would want PVP in a game completely about PVE is the PVE content doesn't have any replayability. PVP is the lazy dev's path to giving a game replayability in a primarily PVE game.

You can be distracted from something you want for sure, but that doesn't mean you can't want it, and that it wouldn't work.

I really don't know why all these PVP threads get so complicated. Some people want the worst definition of PVP, some would be okay with a shitty battle mode like past games had, other swear no form of PVP would work and be a waste of time and believe everyone should think like they do, and the rest just come up with ideas that get ignored by others sounding like a broken record.

So yeah, it's almost better to just "call people names" for not agreeing with yo- wait that's all online forums.

Why do these PVP threads annoy me so much. it's like PVP and hackers are two topics that make this community the most close-minded. <_<;

[Dabian]

He's got a point though.

The only reason anyone would want PVP in a game completely about PVE is the PVE content doesn't have any replayability. PVP is the lazy dev's path to giving a game replayability in a primarily PVE game.


I feel understood and loved. :]

[Z-0]

what new stuff

i cleared the new stuff already

now it's back to grinding the same things like pre episode 2

yup that's what I thought

all I have to say to the comment which bumped this, lol

[Valkyrie Lovrina]

I still would love PvP if they ever find a good way to impliment it. Giga's idea kinda reminds me of the battlefields on TERA. though 1v1, 4v4v4 sounds very likely if PvP ever gets added.

[Dabian]

At the risk of sounding close-minded to people again, I'll caveat that what follows is an OPINION.

The way I see it Sega probably does have plans for PVP, but wants to do it in a "meaningful" context.

"But you [insert derogatory term Rock can help with that]! It doesn't have to be anything more than a simple battle mode!"

That was the design philosophy of PSO. It might not necessarily be so for THIS game, and unless SEGA comes up with another content roadmap other than the one we've seen, my guess is that they're a) holding out b) focusing on PVE first.

[NoiseHERO]

At the risk of sounding close-minded to people again, I'll caveat that what follows is an OPINION.

The way I see it Sega probably does have plans for PVP, but wants to do it in a "meaningful" context.

"But you [insert derogatory term Rock can help with that]! It doesn't have to be anything more than a simple battle mode!"

That was the design philosophy of PSO. It might not necessarily be so for THIS game, and unless SEGA comes up with another content roadmap other than the one we've seen, my guess is that they're a) holding out b) focusing on PVE first.

Dude! I said I was sorry I just didn't feel like you were worth being any form of clever! : >

And that doesn't mean anything, "design philosophy"? Whatever that means, it went out the window the second this became a F2P game.

You can't say PVP will ruin this game if it's optiona, and this game is old enough for it not to take up "development time" (a popular excuse on this topic in beta days) it really doesn't affect anyone unless there's something about it that makes people obligated to play it outside of their comfort zone. Otherwise it's no different than when people would complain about certain outfits that came out because OTHER PEOPLE would wear it and they would somehow imply that OTHER PEOPLE enjoying one part of a game ruins it for themselves..

Which is what makes your "opinion" (a fine word to hide behind to justify saying something stupid) is close-minded.

[deahamlet]

1. This thread has some discussions that illustrate exactly why PvP is toxic. You people come off as outright a-holes and you haven't even fought eachother. The sheer level of theorycrafting elitism is unbelievable. Yes, PvP breeds some very good skill but also a huge number of a-holes. I've played MMOs with PvP, I've played FPS multiplayer... the only thing they have in common is the amount of BS coming out of people's mouths. MMOs have the added awesomeness of everyone using the current flavour of the month which will be nerf-ed into nothingness in a couple of months, but that's okay... Everyone will play the next flavour. Woot.

2. Every game has a certain amount of effort put into it. This comes down to how many employees the company allocates to the game, how many man-hours, etc. If you want PVP you must accept that they will not increase the overall manpower giving to PSO2, they will now take people away to put on PVP. Yes, the quality and amount of updates for PVE will be WORSE if they implement PVP modes.

3. PVP is not as simple as balanced maps. TERA had balanced maps and while people enjoyed them... the class imbalance was STILL there. Just showed up even more. Suddenly melees had LESS chance because the healers had no healing % on the stupid "normalized" gear while casters and archers did not need speed increasers (which melee need) and could spam AOEs to their heart's content. Was it more fun than non-balanced maps? Of course. Was it still a f-fest if not on certain class? Yes! Balanced maps are even worse for small group maps, at least with 10-15 you kind of balance overall with the randomness of matching. But even then you don't want to be wiped across the ground if you're not in the right class... you simply give up. 3v3 were ruined from the get-go even balanced gear wouldn't save them because people found the LOL-easy-win class combination and only a huge huge disparity in skill would make that combo lose. Nobody wanted to play. Resources spent on BAD pvp are better not even spent (back to number 2).

4. If, as you all seem to agree, SEGA can't even do classes right or PVE content, what makes you think PVP won't be an unmitigated disaster? Nothing.

5. I agree with someone who said PVP is thrown in there half-arsed to make it last longer. But PVP cannot save a game. All these new MMOs, they have PVP. All it does is lead to whines every single day about nerf this, nerf that... I don't see SEGA making changes often and most companies that do respond and nerf always get backlash and something else has to be nerfed. You cannot win with PVP. You always have to nerf things and there's always the flavour of the month. And teamwork... if you didn't have teamwork with your friends before, you are not going to suddenly encourage it through PVP. There's blaming and whining and raging. And smacktalk (back to number 1). SEGA is unlikely to even be that responsive, and do you want to have to spend money everytime the yoyo nerf bat hits YOUR class setup? PVP did not save any of the new games. It just made the PVE crowd that they had really mad due to all the class changes... and in the end the PVE crowd was their base.

Do I want PVP in PSO2? No. Do I care if anyone else wants it? No.
If you get it and it's crap and PVE suffers... you've got nobody to blame but yourselves.

I don't find PSO2 boring, but then again maybe I should grind more hours caring only about maximum efficiency and nothing else... might make me bored. In fact, I'm sure it'd bore me.

[Zipzo]

Dude! I said I was sorry I just didn't feel like you were worth being any form of clever! : >

And that doesn't mean anything, "design philosophy"? Whatever that means, it went out the window the second this became a F2P game.

You can't say PVP will ruin this game if it's optiona, and this game is old enough for it not to take up "development time" (a popular excuse on this topic in beta days) it really doesn't affect anyone unless there's something about it that makes people obligated to play it outside of their comfort zone. Otherwise it's no different than when people would complain about certain outfits that came out because OTHER PEOPLE would wear it and they would somehow imply that OTHER PEOPLE enjoying one part of a game ruins it for themselves..

Which is what makes your "opinion" (a fine word to hide behind to justify saying something stupid) is close-minded.

Just because something is optional doesn't mean it's a great idea and that it should be added in because "why not".

I don't add the word "testicles" to the end of every sentence. Sure, I could, I'm not obligated to and it's not like its big deal if I do, that doesn't mean it needs to be done.

Similar to PvP in this game, there's no reason to add something that will be forever broken, likely not even work, and create complications far beyond the already daunting set of problems this game has balancing PvE. SEGA doesn't need to add testicles to the end of their sentence just because it won't hurt anybody.


...

Testicles.

[NoiseHERO]

1. This thread has some discussions that illustrate exactly why PvP is toxic. You people come off as outright a-holes and you haven't even fought eachother. The sheer level of theorycrafting elitism is unbelievable. Yes, PvP breeds some very good skill but also a huge number of a-holes. I've played MMOs with PvP, I've played FPS multiplayer...

2.Do I want PVP in PSO2? No. Do I care if anyone else wants it? No.
If you get it and it's crap and PVE suffers... you've got nobody to blame but yourselves.

3.I don't find PSO2 boring, but then again maybe I should grind more hours caring only about maximum efficiency and nothing else... might make me bored. In fact, I'm sure it'd bore me.

1.IF the community is already full of a-holes (not really outside the forums but let's go with your thought process.) then how would PVP making them a-holes be any better. and of course... comparing it to OTHER game's PVP as usual, completely different games that half-revolve around PVP and even having PKing. =/= PSO2 having a minigame you can select from the mission counter.

2. PVE suffering from an optional extra mode. What, would their be less MPAs or something? (Everything is soloable in this game anyway but yeah I don't see how.)

3. To be honest the second you do that, the second anything you've ever considered "whining" from this community becomes justified. I've seen dozens of people here get converted from "this game's not bad and I still find it fun" to "holy shit this game really IS horrible." So for your own safety if you're fine not playing they game the way they intended for you, yeah don't do so. it's a trap that benefits the developers more than it does you. Ignorance is bliss.



Just because something is optional doesn't mean it's a great idea and that it should be added in because "why not".
...

Testicles.

What else is this game really doing with itself once everyone gets bored of braver that timeline doesn't look like it holds anything more interesting. "why not"? well probably because people want it. I think they can get away with it, even if it comes out bad, and people can move on with their lives while others can still enjoy it. that's what I mean by "why not."

Dammit why'd I start posting in this thread. >_>;

[Dabian]

Dude! I said I was sorry I just didn't feel like you were worth being any form of clever! : >

And that doesn't mean anything, "design philosophy"? Whatever that means, it went out the window the second this became a F2P game.

You can't say PVP will ruin this game if it's optiona, and this game is old enough for it not to take up "development time" (a popular excuse on this topic in beta days) it really doesn't affect anyone unless there's something about it that makes people obligated to play it outside of their comfort zone. Otherwise it's no different than when people would complain about certain outfits that came out because OTHER PEOPLE would wear it and they would somehow imply that OTHER PEOPLE enjoying one part of a game ruins it for themselves..

Which is what makes your "opinion" (a fine word to hide behind to justify saying something stupid) is close-minded.


Design philosophy is like oversight. It's there to "guide" if you will, what gets put in, how much of [insert element] is allowed. And yes it exists in a F2P game as well. How much monetisation, where to monetise, how pricey. That's influenced by design philosphy. The roadmap is an example of putting their design philosophy into a tangible content structure.

As for the pros and cons, I didn't even say a thing about those, and specifically avoided that. I was talking generally, in the context of available and foreseeable content.

Content was released. People did in fact gravitate towards said content, and ask [less] for PVP at the moment. I would be lying if I said no PVP forever because I don't know. Was that so criminal?

[~Aya~]

@all of you

PvP is simply a terrible idea~ I would never lose and that would be boring.

[NoiseHERO]

Design philosophy is like oversight. It's there to "guide" if you will, what gets put in, how much of [insert element] is allowed. And yes it exists in a F2P game as well. How much monetisation, where to monetise, how pricey. That's influenced by design philosphy. The roadmap is an example of putting their design philosophy into a tangible content structure.

As for the pros and cons, I didn't even say a thing about those, and specifically avoided that. I was talking generally, in the context of available and foreseeable content.

Content was released. People did in fact gravitate towards said content, and ask [less] for PVP at the moment. I would be lying if I said no PVP forever because I don't know. Was that so criminal?

Design philosophy when out the window when this became a PVP game, because all they need to keep making money is giving us 2 sets of outfits a months and one new system update every two months. design philosophy meaning what you say it means goes out the window because this game's design philosophy is already shit.

Ironically it being a F2P game would probably be promoted by PVP. Sakai saying so himself at one point. But that would have to be the kind of PVP that you'd all fear, which actually WOULD be bad for everyone.

"Why not" have a harmless minigame or two on the side where we could punch each other in the face. and anything further on "why not" I've already replied to zipzo on.

I keep saying "why not" and "close-minded" because people keep making the idea of compromise complicated for the sake of disagreement in favor of their opinions that they never plan to change. And it's not just this thread but it's reflected in any thread that lives longer than 2 pages. I hate these PVP topics because they reflect it the most.



TL;DR/All I'M saying: your opinion doesn't mean shit no matter what you add to it, if it's just to justify being close-minded and most definitely counter-productive. At that point, we may as well just skip to calling each other dumbasses. If people simply don't want "PVP" and have nothing else to add, other than shooting it down no matter what form it's in, then let everyone else share their ideas. I think zyru said something similar in a bad un-needed context in many past threads.

[Zipzo]

Glad S8, S9, and S10 at top 20 in my battlegroup running non-flavor comps says I'd probably have you dead Aya.

[~Aya~]

Glad S8, S9, and S10 at top 20 in my battlegroup running non-flavor comps says I'd probably have you dead Aya.



/self appointed queen of PvP.


So.. how bout them Bengals?

[Chou-Chou]

I'm convinced that the only remaining way for SEGA to salvage this game is if they add a couple of decent PvP modes.

Possible some team-based, round-based PvP and a death match in some enclosed arena versions of the existing maps.

The reason is because they can't update fun content for crap and there's nothing to do.

Games with PvP last much longer without updates than purely PvE games. If they're going to be lazy adding new stuff, they should add least let us bash each others heads in while we wait.

Anyone agree? :-?

I would rather a highly cooperative PvE experience but it's just not happening. PvP won't suffer from the game's horrible AI and it would encourage teamwork which isn't needed anywhere else in the game.

(Strongly Disagree!) No just no, Sega won't do that (I hope they don't), not a single MMO out there that has PvP is ever done right and PSO2 does not need it period.

This topic should just be locked and forgotten it won't happen.

I'm against PvP because I have played a fair share of MMOs that have PvP and they all suck. PvP would just make players want to cheat.

[Jazneo]

Pvp will just destory the game and make people rage and get made each other but i think be cool if they did this

remove everyone weapon just put out mecha and turrents on the field to capture a flag or collect the most items before the time go out

[~Aya~]

PSO2 Code: Xtreme Beach Volleyball~

Chea!!

[Valimer]

Didn't read all 11 pages [EDIT: 19 pages wow my bad lol] but yeah I agree to an extent.

They need some sort of competitive mode where you can versus other players in a more direct way. Maple story had a versus mode before they had PvP where two teams had to kill monsters and the fastest team won or something like that...

A modified version of a MOBA mode would be fun. PSO2 just needs something, some sort of substance to it. They could do a lot to bring more competition between teams too.

[Valimer]

There are a lot of ways SEGA could bring some fresh competitive-ness to the game with out bringing in direct player vs player brawling.

Also I don't think anyone is arguing that it's impossible to balance PSO2, or that it's impossible to bring a proper PvP into the game. The thing is, I don't think any of us believe SEGA can do it properly, not that it's impossible completely.

[Dabian]

TL;DR/All I'M saying: your opinion doesn't mean shit no matter what you add to it, if it's just to justify being close-minded and most definitely counter-productive. At that point, we may as well just skip to calling each other dumbasses. If people simply don't want "PVP" and have nothing else to add, other than shooting it down no matter what form it's in, then let everyone else share their ideas. I think zyru said something similar in a bad un-needed context in many past threads.


"I'm going to just skip to the name-calling since we MIGHT end up arguing. Yes I'm pre-judging."

What was that about community and close-minded and intolerant again?

[ShadowDragon28]

the ONLY "PVP" I want to see in PSO2 is Soccer Field via a team lobby theme, like the Soccer lobby that was in PSO EP I & II.

[Opy]

I think it could be objective/teamwork based

I was gonna say NO HELL NO to pvp, it has never worked in PSO, but this is a good idea.

I think it would be fun to have a scenario like challenge mode used to be, but also for pvp. you have to kill some mobs and get equips to use. Each team could start out on their own b1 and meet in b2 for battle. just have everyone start out at lvl 1. 6 vs 6 would be awesome.

[HIT0SHI]

the ONLY "PVP" I want to see in PSO2 is Soccer Field via a team lobby theme, like the Soccer lobby that was in PSO EP I & II.

^This

I want kick giant Chu Chu's/Kapu Kapu's into Soccer goals while on a Photon Chair damn it!

[gigawuts]

But they don't reference those games anymore. Now they'll just have the soccer ball being a giant miku head.

Which, in all honesty, sounds incredibly satisfying to kick repeatedly.

[Gardios]

If we get something like this as BGM I wouldn't mind at all.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5yfGDNw1rqE