Weak Stance Vs Average Stance

[MegaMettaurX]

I've been building my braver, but so far I do not have either one of those stance, because they just don't sound appealing. the thing that's turning me off from weak stance is the fact that I have to be hitting a weakpoint to get my SP's worth in damage. While useful in falz, it doesn't seem very useful on enemies that move around too much.

Average stance on the other hand is a nice all around damage buff, but it doesn't seem like the bonus is even worth the effort, considering that fury stance does much better than it at level 5 and that's all you need. I'm having a bit of trouble deciding which one I want to waste points on.

[Rien]

Get Weak Stance, then sub Hunter and abuse the fact you have Fury Stance.

Yeah Average will just end up stacking on top of Fury, but Weak will get bosses killed faster and Fury is all you need to take out regular mobs.

[jooozek]

what stops you from getting both? katanas don't get anything out of charge bonuses in case this is what you are wondering

[Kondibon]

You can easily max both as the stance charges aren't really worth it unless you're a hardcore bow user, or plan on subbing braver to a tech class.

If you only want to focus on one though, Rien's advice is solid.

[Husq]

I've been building my braver, but so far I do not have either one of those stance, because they just don't sound appealing. the thing that's turning me off from weak stance is the fact that I have to be hitting a weakpoint to get my SP's worth in damage. While useful in falz, it doesn't seem very useful on enemies that move around too much.
Some katana PAs can knock down enemies and expose their weak spots or make them easier to target, which you can then finish off with a stronger PA. So it really depends how you play.
Unless you want to build a hybrid tree, katana and bow, you should try maxing out both stances with their UPs, if possible.

[Rien]

You'd have to give up braver mag and jr cover to get both stances and ups to 10.

[Kondibon]

You'd have to give up braver mag and jr cover to get both stances and ups to 10.No you don't. ._.

http://ryuhiroshi.funpic.de/pso2/skillcalc.php?05fb3Ikb3Ikb3Ikb3Ikb3Ikb3Ikb3Ik0lbIn 0000000lb000009b000009b00000ib000000lb000000jebdB4 SdncKrIJ2ib0006

[vantwan123]

Weak stance affects gunslash headshots, just sayin'.

Spam dat AB for big damage on mobs yo.

[Kondibon]

Weak stance affects gunslash headshots, just sayin'.

Spam dat AB for big damage on mobs yo.

Weak stance affects any attack that hits a part of the enemy that takes more than 100% damage, so it effects any headshots. This also includes techs that the enemy is weak to.

[AgemFrostMage]

Weak stance affects gunslash headshots, just sayin'.

Spam dat AB for big damage on mobs yo.

But... I wasted my AB on my human force =( Oh well, must farm the rare cats again -_-

[Neferpitou]

If you're going pure Katana or pure Bow you can afford both stances. If you're going Hybrid i'd choose one or the other. I chose Weak Stance.

[gigawuts]

I'm agreeing with Nefer, especially on the choice of stance. The only time you really miss your non-weak damage is when it's time to break boss parts. That's it. Trash mobs will still die in about the same number of PA's regardless.

Weak Stance offers a significantly larger bonus to damage that is already bonused, turning 2k hits into ~3k hits, whereas average stance turns them into ~2.4k hits. This starts to add up considerably when you consider bows and additional bullet. Ranged damage thrives on its combined multipliers against weak points, and I'd rather have the extra damage there and on katanas against weak points.

[UnLucky]

Yes, bow and gunslash can get easy head shots, Katana Combat can get you easy access to otherwise out of reach weak spots, and you've still got Overend and Assault Buster if you wanted. Plus anything with a Weak Bullet on it gives you Weak Stance's bonus, even if it wasn't a weak spot originally.

If you're going pure katana, you only need 20 SP in each stance (don't get Crit or Charge). Pure bow or hybrid can go full Weak or put some in Average to alleviate the penalty (you can still just toggle it off to avoid that when necessary).

[Chik'Tikka]

weak stance works against WB points as well+^_^+ i've been running with BR as a sub, i'd WB Banther's head then switch to all class bow and hit a cumulative 40k dmg (lvl 5 Master shot, 300rtk bow), compared to Sneak Shooter's 19k (lvl 15 Sneak Shoot, 600 rtk rifle), both with active standing snipe and weak hit advance all the way up+^_^+ but still, for HU style play, average stance seemed to do more overall dps then weak stance (since HU types have a harder time hitting weak points, or weak points don't count) and was better for mob control+^_^+ so it comes down to your play style i guess+^_^+

[MetalDude]

Seeing all this, it sounds like you shouldn't really bother with Average.

[strikerhunter]

Seeing all this, it sounds like you shouldn't really bother with Average.

Weak Stance is the better stance overall since it's multipliers are higher than average stance. At full 10sp, the damage set back is only at 90% which isn't much.

Average stance basically for your mob cleaning up since it has no set backs and because it powers up all damage. But when did anyone every had any problem cleaning up mobs?

To bad the situation of whether investing into average stance isn't like the situation between Fighter's brave and wise.

[jooozek]

you are going to take your sweet time in PSE bursts? thats fine for casuals i guess

[Narrillnezzurh]

If you're going pure Katana or pure Bow you can afford both stances. If you're going Hybrid i'd choose one or the other. I chose Weak Stance.

Pure bow can't afford both stances.

[Chou-Chou]

I'm only going for average stance and using only bullet bows as I do more damage with them then I do with a Katana.
Not getting katana combat, weak stance or rapid shoot. Going to max out average stance, average s up, average s critical & average s charge then work on adding r-atk later on.

My current skills:
http://ryuhiroshi.funpic.de/pso2/skillcalc.php?05bHb3Ikb3Ikb3Ikb3Ikb3Ikb3IkIAlbiO7b In0000000lb000009b000009b00000ib000000lb000000lBf4 Sdoka0000j

[UnLucky]

I'm only going for average stance and using only bullet bows as I do more damage with them then I do with a Katana.
Not getting katana combat, weak stance or rapid shoot. Going to max out average stance, average s up, average s critical & average s charge then work on adding r-atk later on.

That sounds really bad in almost every sense.

Rapid Shoot boosts your bow damage all around while it's up. R-Atk Up is not as much as the bonuses during RS (though they are attached to a cooldown). S Crit is not helpful. Not to mention any enemy with a face or a glowing weak spot gets Weak Stance's bonus with bows.

You even got Katana Gear but you don't have Katana Combat, why?

[Chou-Chou]

That sounds really bad in almost every sense.

Rapid Shoot boosts your bow damage all around while it's up. R-Atk Up is not as much as the bonuses during RS (though they are attached to a cool down). S Crit is not helpful. Not to mention any enemy with a face or a glowing weak spot gets Weak Stance's bonus with bows.

You even got Katana Gear but you don't have Katana Combat, why?

I "was" using a katana at first but noticed I do far more damage with a bullet bow then (fully charged penetrating arrow at enemy's weak to light I do around 1k damage) I can ever do with a katana plus that keeps me out of harms way most of the time even though my s-def is pretty good.

[Xaelouse]

You can sacrifice 5 points from weak stance Up for anything you like, since maxing that would be like maxing out the stance itself on fighter, which wasn't really recommended for awhile until they got more points to spend.

[Chou-Chou]

You can sacrifice 5 points from weak stance Up for anything you like, since maxing that would be like maxing out the stance itself on fighter, which wasn't really recommended for awhile until they got more points to spend.

Average stance & weak stance can not be used together so there is no point in having both. I've wasted 1 point in weak stance "thinking" both could be used at the same time but that is wrong.

[FerrickX]

Average stance & weak stance can not be used together so there is no point in having both. I've wasted 1 point in weak stance "thinking" both could be used at the same time but that is wrong.

you can't stack two stances from the same class, this fact has been stated over and over again, that said, weak stance is situational for obvious reasons while you can keep average stance on the whole time without fear of losing damage

[gigawuts]

The lack of opportunity to do more damage is still a loss of potential damage.

[FerrickX]

but a decrease in normal damage is rather bad if you want to break the enemy parts to reveal their weakness is it not ? And not all enemies have weakpoints to begin with either (though then again, with fury stance, this doesn't really matter much)

[MetalDude]

10% loss, it's not substantial. If you're using Bows, your aim is to headshot/hit weakpoints at every point possible. For bosses, it's best to simply have WS off first then pop it right back on when appropriate. Or just have a RA/Sub RA and WB will make WS work.

[gigawuts]

turn off the stance when you're not using it

as I said in this very thread, the only time it's actually a bad thing to not have the +21% damage is when breaking boss parts

[vantwan123]

but a decrease in normal damage is rather bad if you want to break the enemy parts to reveal their weakness is it not ? And not all enemies have weakpoints to begin with either (though then again, with fury stance, this doesn't really matter much)

All the enemies that matter in this game have weakpoints. The ones that quickly come to mind whose weakpoints are difficult to target for melee are Zeshrayda, Ragne, and Chrome. I'm thinking bows wouldn't have this problem since you can just lock-on and fire away.

If you're suggesting average stance over weak stance because of the fact that it's better on trash mobs and for breaking parts - which you could already do quickly on every boss - then I'd say you're not taking full advantage of your opportunities to do the most damage possible.

[FerrickX]

that's true i guess, and KC does negate the need to use average stance to begin with (since we can just pop in fury)

not that i'm suggesting avg over weak though, just more in the lines of "why not both"

[Zyrusticae]

I spend 200% more time killing trash than killing bosses, so I went with Average Stance anyway (with a second tree with Weak Stance for bow usage, if I feel like it).

All of the mechs, all of the natives except garongos and yetis, all of the dragonkin except dirandals and pendrans have no striking weak point. Coast is the one notable exception in that everything except the shark-dogs have weak points, and of course all Darkers have weak points, but I'd rather do more damage to everything all of the time than do more damage to some things some of the time and less damage to everything else.

Plus I have Katana Combat for killing bosses. What more do I need, really?

Edit: This is what my skill tree looks like at 60. (http://ryuhiroshi.funpic.de/pso2/skillcalc.php?05eQb3Ikb3Ikb3Ikb3Ikb3Ikb3Ikb3Ikbxjb nIJjebIoqnGKsN6sNfGA000007b000009b000009b00000ib00 0000lb000000jebfGSdxcKpAI20000)

Of course I could simply drop the stat-ups for weak stance, but why would I do that? Again, more damage, all of the time.

I will note that I do treat fighter differently in that I will pick up both wise stance and brave stance, but that's because I only put 15 sp into each (5 into the main stance and 10 into the stance-ups) and that there are enough situations where I want to be behind or in front of enemies that it's worth having both.

[yunamon]

As a BRRA, I've invested all on Weak Stance (Am full time BB user instead of Katana), since it helps alot against OP-HP mobs like Wondas as I can just target its core using Kamikaze Arrow for massive damage and usually kills it in 1 or 2 PAs.

[yunamon]

garongos and yetis, dirandals and pendrans

I dunno. I did massive damage on their head usually. Then again I'm a GU/RA/range BR...

[MetalDude]

For BB purposes, there's no reason not to go WS. For pure Katana builds, AS is best for everything except bosses basically.

[Zyrusticae]

I dunno. I did massive damage on their head usually. Then again I'm a GU/RA/range BR...
You should actually read, I said they are the exceptions that actually have striking weak points, and I'm exclusively referring to striking attacks. Ranged attacks are different in that all heads are weak points for ranged attacks.

[SakuRei]

So wait... which one is much better to stack with as a Hu/Br? Fury Stance + Average Stance? or Fury Stance + Weak Stance? And yeah pure katana user here. Might plan to to Hu/Br Pure Sword and Pure Katana path.

[Metalsnake27]

Get both.

Average stance is more just overall type thing. Weak Stance can demolish bosses if you do it right.

I recommend maxing Average Stance first since Weak Stance is more situational, but it can be rather useful if you do it right.

[Maninbluejumpsuit]

Pure bow can't afford both stances.

Since no one said anything on this, you can afford both stances, but can only max one of the charges (I chose weak stance charge of course though)

http://ryuhiroshi.funpic.de/pso2/skillcalc.php?055qb3Ikb3Ikb3Ikb3Ikb3Ikb3Ikb3Ikfdt0 IbIn0000000lb000008dBJdJ29kcA0000ib00000ib000000lb 000000lbf4NfcKfJIHnGQ0006

For the record, the RA tree can afford JR perfectly. You don't exactly need step attack. There's always dashing with a GS if you gotta go fast.

[Jei182]

I spend 200% more time killing trash than killing bosses, so I went with Average Stance anyway (with a second tree with Weak Stance for bow usage, if I feel like it).

All of the mechs, all of the natives except garongos and yetis, all of the dragonkin except dirandals and pendrans have no striking weak point. Coast is the one notable exception in that everything except the shark-dogs have weak points, and of course all Darkers have weak points, but I'd rather do more damage to everything all of the time than do more damage to some things some of the time and less damage to everything else.

Plus I have Katana Combat for killing bosses. What more do I need, really?

Edit: This is what my skill tree looks like at 60. (http://ryuhiroshi.funpic.de/pso2/skillcalc.php?05eQb3Ikb3Ikb3Ikb3Ikb3Ikb3Ikb3Ikbxjb nIJjebIoqnGKsN6sNfGA000007b000009b000009b00000ib00 0000lb000000jebfGSdxcKpAI20000)

Of course I could simply drop the stat-ups for weak stance, but why would I do that? Again, more damage, all of the time.

I will note that I do treat fighter differently in that I will pick up both wise stance and brave stance, but that's because I only put 15 sp into each (5 into the main stance and 10 into the stance-ups) and that there are enough situations where I want to be behind or in front of enemies that it's worth having both.
Since I seem to be better with katanas so far I kind of wish I followed this skill set or something similar from the start. I was basing my build on the one posted here http://ryuhiroshi.funpic.de/pso2/skillcalc.php?05eNb3Ikb3Ikb3Ikb3Ikb3Ikb3Ikb3Ik0lbI nqnGFcAeDInfcKfGA000007b000009b000009b00000ib00000 0lb000000jebqB4SdncKsAcFib0006
But I'm having second thoughts. I guess I could just abandon what I was focusing on on the right half of the tree and focus on the left half. I really would like to pick the better options to go with what seems to be working better, which so far seems to be Katanas. I really only use bullet bows whenever there is just a larger group of enemies coming at me and I usually just rain bullets down on them.

[FerrickX]

well i guess from reading the posts in this topic, is this a good build for pure katana bravers ?

http://ryuhiroshi.funpic.de/pso2/skillcalc.php?05eNb3Ikb3Ikb3Ikb3Ikb3Ikb3Ikb3Ik0lbI nqnGKcIbpjcKfGA000007b000009b000009b00000ib000000l b000000jebqBk2dnI4sNJ20000

also is it the right way to build hu too ?

[Rei Rei]

All of the mechs, all of the natives except garongos and yetis, all of the dragonkin except dirandals and pendrans have no striking weak point. Coast is the one notable exception in that everything except the shark-dogs have weak points, and of course all Darkers have weak points, but I'd rather do more damage to everything all of the time than do more damage to some things some of the time and less damage to everything else.

Plus I have Katana Combat for killing bosses. What more do I need, really?



You left out Gilnas for the mechs as an exception. I thought the shark dogs weak point was their back fin? I do around 1000 on their fin and 600 anywhere else? There is alot more monsters with weakpoints than without, so instead of "some of the time" more like "mostly all the time".

I guess it depends if you solo any bosses by yourself, because in my case most bosses usually are alive a minute or two after they took a good Katana combat.

I personally have got both and hardly switch back to average stance, and the damage drop is minuscule compared to the extra damage to weakpoints, which means your DPS will increase exponentially.

[SakuRei]

Since I plan building a Ranger Braver (Ra/Bra) out of boredom wonder if this Braver Skill Tree will do? I went on a pure Bullet Bow path on this one. And I kinda have two questions before I make this one in the future...

http://ryuhiroshi.funpic.de/pso2/skillcalc.php?05xnb3Ikb3Ikb3Ikb3Ikb3Ikb3Ikb3Ik0lbI n0000000lb000008dBJdJ29kcA0000fdBeD52cFcAcDA0000fb 000000lb000000lbf4S6JIanHX0006

So I have 2 Questions on my build on the link...

1.) So will Weak Bullet + Weak Stance will work? (I guess this will work right? xD and I'm kinda doing a pure 1 Braver Stance only build so I picked Weak Stance only for this one.)

2.) since I see much of Bullet Bow builds around here in the forums is it recommended to max out Rapid Shoot,Rapid Shoot Up and Rapid Shoot Mastery if you pick a pure Bullet Bow Path? Why or Why not?

[MetalDude]

Rapid Shoot Up and Masetery are more for bonuses during Rapid Shoot. I haven't really heard anything great about the skill itself, but a minute of 15% more damage (+50 R Atk) isn't half bad.

[Rei Rei]

Weak Bullet and Weak Stance will work together if that's what you mean, you'd have to apply your weak bullet with a rifle though since you can't with a bow.

[Zyrusticae]

You left out Gilnas for the mechs as an exception. I thought the shark dogs weak point was their back fin? I do around 1000 on their fin and 600 anywhere else? There is alot more monsters with weakpoints than without, so instead of "some of the time" more like "mostly all the time".
I don't count Gilnas because they're half and half and you have zero control over when they show their core. I'm not sure about the shark dogs, but I do know you don't get the weak point sound effect if you strike their fins.

And there is definitely NOT "a lot more" monsters with weak points than without. A list of non-boss monsters:
[spoiler-box]
No weak points:
Oodan
Za Oodan
Fangulf
Gulf
Aginis
Nab Rappy
Fangulfur
Gulfur
Digg
Sil Dinian
Sol Dinian
Dinian
Fordoran
Nordiran
Windira
Baridran
Sil Sadinian
Sol Sadinian
Sadinian
Set Sadnian
Fordoransa
Nordiransa
Chrome Dragon
Deegalla
Sol Deegalla
Spardan A
Spargun
Sparzyle
Gilnach
Signo Gun
Signo Beat
Guardine
Guardinane

With weak points:
Krahda
Dagan
El Dagan
Kartagot
Breeahda
El Ahda
Predicahda
Dicahda
Micda
Mi Micda
Ga Wonda
Gu Wonda
Dahgash
Dagacha
Krabahda
Kuklonahda
Cyclonehda
Tyraluda
Strahda
Blundarl
Luda Sorcerer
Garongo
Yede
King Yede
Malmoth
Pendran
Dirandal
Sol Dirandal
Gilnas
Torbon
Segulezun
Blumetta
Blumegalla[/spoiler-box]


I guess it depends if you solo any bosses by yourself, because in my case most bosses usually are alive a mintue or two after they took a good Katana combat.
How is soloing bosses even relevant here? Boss soloing is strictly a "for fun" activity, you don't solo bosses if you care at all about getting anything done in any reasonable amount of time.

In the best-case scenario you have at least one fighter with Backhand Smash and a ranger with Weak Bullet. Failing that, a force or two with Namegid and/or a hunter with Over End can do in a pinch. There is no scenario where taking a braver is the optimal choice (at least at this point in time), but Katana Combat at least mitigates this problem by giving them a source of high burst damage. Weak Stance isn't suddenly going to make a sub-par class like Braver jump tiers.

Edit: I should note that I am speaking strictly of katanas. Bullet bows, particularly due to Kamikaze Arrow, are their own beast.


I personally have got both and hardly switch back to average stance, and the damage drop is minuscule compared to the extra damage to weakpoints, which means your DPS will increase exponentially.
"Exponentially" is pure hyperbole. A 20% increase in damage is a 20% increase in damage across all of time. It never gets any higher. That just isn't how the math works. You MIGHT kill things 20% faster. You might not. You might even kill things 100% faster depending on whether or not you break the damage threshold that lets you one-shot things instead of two-shot them. But you also might kill things 0% faster because you didn't actually decrease the number of hits required to kill your target whatsoever.

And the damage drop is not miniscule by any stretch of the imagination. You lose 10% of your damage, straight-up. But that's not the entire picture, you also lose the 120% damage from Average Stance, adding up to be a pretty substantial loss when fighting anything that doesn't have weak points. Going from Weak Stance to Average Stance, for example, made the difference between doing 500 damage per hit and doing 700 damage per hit. That's a huge difference in how many attacks it takes to down a target. The difference only gets bigger with higher S-Atk quantities as well.

Of course, in the ideal scenario you would just take both, and if you decide to do that, all the power to you. I prefer to max out my S-Atk in all scenarios first before even considering it.

[Chdata]

Weak stance affects any attack that hits a part of the enemy that takes more than 100% damage, so it effects any headshots. This also includes techs that the enemy is weak to.

Wait, weak stance also works if you use an element the enemy is weak against?

As BR, if I have a katana with fire element vs a native for example, I'll get the extra 40% damage even if I don't hit a weak point, because I'm hitting with something they're weak to?

[Rei Rei]

And there is definitely NOT "a lot more" monsters with weak points than without. A list of non-boss monsters:
[spoiler-box]
No weak points:
Oodan
Za Oodan
Fangulf
Gulf
Aginis
Nab Rappy
Fangulfur
Gulfur
Digg
Sil Dinian
Sol Dinian
Dinian
Fordoran
Nordiran
Windira
Baridran
Sil Sadinian
Sol Sadinian
Sadinian
Set Sadnian
Fordoransa
Nordiransa
Chrome Dragon
Deegalla
Sol Deegalla
Spardan A
Spargun
Sparzyle
Gilnach
Signo Gun
Signo Beat
Guardine
Guardinane

With weak points:
Krahda
Dagan
El Dagan
Kartagot
Breeahda
El Ahda
Predicahda
Dicahda
Micda
Mi Micda
Ga Wonda
Gu Wonda
Dahgash
Dagacha
Krabahda
Kuklonahda
Cyclonehda
Tyraluda
Strahda
Blundarl
Luda Sorcerer
Garongo
Yede
King Yede
Malmoth
Pendran
Dirandal
Sol Dirandal
Gilnas
Torbon
Segulezun
Blumetta
Blumegalla[/spoiler-box]

That list compared to every other monster with a weakpoint IS small.

[quote=Zyrusticae;3012357]
How is soloing bosses even relevant here? Boss soloing is strictly a "for fun" activity, you don't solo bosses if you care at all about getting anything done in any reasonable amount of time.

Unfortunately for some people including myself finding a party let alone a good one like you described is very hard.



"Exponentially" is pure hyperbole. A 20% increase in damage is a 20% increase in damage across all of time. It never gets any higher. That just isn't how the math works. You MIGHT kill things 20% faster. You might not. You might even kill things 100% faster depending on whether or not you break the damage threshold that lets you one-shot things instead of two-shot them. But you also might kill things 0% faster because you didn't actually decrease the number of hits required to kill your target whatsoever.

If your good at the game you can keep hitting weakpoints consistently therefore in the long run you will finish killing monsters faster than someone who uses average stance all the time.



And the damage drop is not miniscule by any stretch of the imagination. You lose 10% of your damage, straight-up. But that's not the entire picture, you also lose the 120% damage from Average Stance, adding up to be a pretty substantial loss when fighting anything that doesn't have weak points. Going from Weak Stance to Average Stance, for example, made the difference between doing 500 damage per hit and doing 700 damage per hit. That's a huge difference in how many attacks it takes to down a target. The difference only gets bigger with higher S-Atk quantities as well.

You lose 20% like I said if your good and hit weakpoints consistently you wont lose that 10%, I'll be doing 20% more damage than you so if your doing 200 extra per hit I'll be doing 900 damage per hit (depending if that's a weakpoint your hitting? guessing not)



Of course, in the ideal scenario you would just take both, and if you decide to do that, all the power to you. I prefer to max out my S-Atk in all scenarios first before even considering it.

Agreed that's why I have both, but still wondering if switching to average from active weak point would waste more time than if I just kept it on.

[Rei Rei]

Wait, weak stance also works if you use an element the enemy is weak against?

As BR, if I have a katana with fire element vs a native for example, I'll get the extra 40% damage even if I don't hit a weak point, because I'm hitting with something they're weak to?

Erm that doesn't sound right, I'd have to test it but since the servers are down I'm gonna guess no, anyone else have an idea on this?

EDIT: Just tested this on a Oodan with a 30% fire Vita Esrain with and without Weak stance, hit slightly less with weak stance active so this is false.

[Zyrusticae]

And there is definitely NOT "a lot more" monsters with weak points than without. A list of non-boss monsters:
[spoiler-box]
No weak points:
Oodan
Za Oodan
Fangulf
Gulf
Aginis
Nab Rappy
Fangulfur
Gulfur
Digg
Sil Dinian
Sol Dinian
Dinian
Fordoran
Nordiran
Windira
Baridran
Sil Sadinian
Sol Sadinian
Sadinian
Set Sadnian
Fordoransa
Nordiransa
Deegalla
Sol Deegalla
Spardan A
Spargun
Sparzyle
Gilnach
Signo Gun
Signo Beat
Guardine
Guardinane

With weak points:
Krahda
Dagan
El Dagan
Kartagot
Breeahda
El Ahda
Predicahda
Dicahda
Micda
Mi Micda
Ga Wonda
Gu Wonda
Dahgash
Dagacha
Krabahda
Kuklonahda
Cyclonehda
Tyraluda
Strahda
Blundarl
Luda Sorcerer
Garongo
Yede
King Yede
Malmoth
Pendran
Dirandal
Sol Dirandal
Gilnas
Torbon
Segulezun
Blumetta
Blumegalla[/spoiler-box]

That list compared to every other monster with a weakpoint IS small.

I don't understand. In what universe is a 50-50 ratio "small"? Methinks confirmation bias is in play here.


Unfortunately for some people including myself finding a party let alone a good one like you described is very hard.
That is unfortunate, but I still don't consider it very relevant. I suggest finding a good team.


If your good at the game you can keep hitting weakpoints consistently therefore in the long run you will finish killing monsters faster than someone who uses average stance all the time.

[...]

You lose 20% like I said if your good and hit weakpoints consistently you wont lose that 10%, I'll be doing 20% more damage than you so if your doing 200 extra per hit I'll be doing 900 damage per hit (depending if that's a weakpoint your hitting? guessing not)
No, if you fight in a place like Floating Continent the only monsters you attack that actually have weak points will be the Darkers. Everything else has no weak points; without Average Stance you'd be doing something like 25% less damage to everything no matter what (unless you turn off Weak Stance, in which case you're just doing 15% less).


Agreed that's why I have both, but still wondering if switching to average from active weak point would waste more time than if I just kept it on.Well, it's either that or take a 10% + 20% damage penalty to everything you attack that has no weak points (which is fully half of all field monsters) like I mentioned above.

Of course, if all you plan on running are Ruins or Coast Exploration, then go nuts. Unfortunately, every other field isn't so generous.

[Rei Rei]

I don't understand. In what universe is a 50-50 ratio "small"? Methinks confirmation bias is in play here.

I count a few extra enemies now I have had a good look through all the enemies on Cirno, guess I'll have to give you that one.




No, if you fight in a place like Floating Continent the only monsters you attack that actually have weak points will be the Darkers. Everything else has no weak points; without Average Stance you'd be doing something like 25% less damage to everything no matter what (unless you turn off Weak Stance, in which case you're just doing 15% less).

Not to be blunt but why would I be running Floating continent? There's no reason run it? unless there's some uber drop on there I haven't heard of?



Of course, if all you plan on running are Ruins or Coast Exploration, then go nuts. Unfortunately, every other field isn't so generous.

You could argue this all day, I could be making up the time killing the stronger enemies faster like Ga Wonda, but as you said I could be biased as I have been running a lot of coast trying to get an agito.

[Z-0]

Not to be blunt but why would I be running Floating continent? There's no reason run it? unless there's some uber drop on there I haven't heard of?
There's a reason to run every map: It's called Advanced.

I liked Advanced because there are good drops in every maps. All the best weapons come from there, and they're spread out across all 9 quests.

Unfortunately Coast's drop table is hella dumb and has too much good stuff. Not the best, but too good.

[Rei Rei]

There's a reason to run every map: It's called Advanced.

I liked Advanced because there are good drops in every maps. All the best weapons come from there, and they're spread out across all 9 quests.

Unfortunately Coast's drop table is hella dumb and has too much good stuff. Not the best, but too good.

I don't run Floating continent AQ's, I used to but for some reason I'd always struggle to get 10 caps, unlike underground AQ's where it was hard not to get 10 caps.

[Rien]

There's a reason to run every map: It's called Advanced.

I liked Advanced because there are good drops in every maps. All the best weapons come from there, and they're spread out across all 9 quests.

Unfortunately Coast's drop table is hella dumb and has too much good stuff. Not the best, but too good.

Red Weapons

Red Weapons in boxes

Red Weapons everywhere

[Zenobia]

Screw AQ's just buy your way through PSO2 cause farming weps in any other place is mainstream that's what all the bad asses do.

[Chik'Tikka]

And there is definitely NOT "a lot more" monsters with weak points than without. A list of non-boss monsters:
[spoiler-box]
No weak points:
Oodan
Za Oodan
Fangulf
Gulf
Aginis
Nab Rappy
Fangulfur
Gulfur
Digg
Sil Dinian
Sol Dinian
Dinian
Fordoran
Nordiran
Windira
Baridran
Sil Sadinian
Sol Sadinian
Sadinian
Set Sadnian
Fordoransa
Nordiransa
Chrome Dragon
Deegalla
Sol Deegalla
Spardan A
Spargun
Sparzyle
Gilnach
Signo Gun
Signo Beat
Guardine
Guardinane

[/spoiler-box]

That list compared to every other monster with a weakpoint IS small.


would just like to point out almost all of those have some sort of weak point, you just gotta TPS them+^_^+

[strikerhunter]

And there is definitely NOT "a lot more" monsters with weak points than without. A list of non-boss monsters:
[spoiler-box]
No weak points:
Oodan
Za Oodan
Fangulf
Gulf
Aginis
Nab Rappy
Fangulfur
Gulfur
Digg
Sil Dinian
Sol Dinian
Dinian
Fordoran
Nordiran
Windira
Baridran
Sil Sadinian
Sol Sadinian
Sadinian
Set Sadnian
Fordoransa
Nordiransa
Chrome Dragon
Deegalla
Sol Deegalla
Spardan A
Spargun
Sparzyle
Gilnach
Signo Gun
Signo Beat
Guardine
Guardinane

With weak points:
Krahda
Dagan
El Dagan
Kartagot
Breeahda
El Ahda
Predicahda
Dicahda
Micda
Mi Micda
Ga Wonda
Gu Wonda
Dahgash
Dagacha
Krabahda
Kuklonahda
Cyclonehda
Tyraluda
Strahda
Blundarl
Luda Sorcerer
Garongo
Yede
King Yede
Malmoth
Pendran
Dirandal
Sol Dirandal
Gilnas
Torbon
Segulezun
Blumetta
Blumegalla[/spoiler-box]



I can prove several of this wrong because of noticeable damage difference:

[SPOILER-BOX]Oodan-----------------head TPS, only ranged classes
Za Oodan-------------head TPS, only ranged classes
Fangulf----------------head
Gulf--------------------head
Aginis
Nab Rappy
Fangulfur--------------head
Gulfur------------------head
Digg
Sil Dinian--------------head
Sol Dinian-------------head
Dinian-----------------head
Fordoran
Nordiran
Windira
Baridran
Sil Sadinian-----------head
Sol Sadinian----------head
Sadinian---------------head
Set Sadnian-----------head
Fordoransa
Nordiransa
Chrome Dragon
Deegalla
Sol Deegalla
Spardan A-----------blue dot on top
Spargun--------------blue dot on top
Sparzyle-------------the bomb on head
Gilnach---------------core (you alread acknowledge it)
Signo Gun------------head
Signo Beat-----------very small blue core
Guardine
Guardinane
[/SPOILER-BOX]


Note that most head-weak points are only available to range attacks (not to sure bout techs) and not melee, with the exception of signo gun which I'm questioning whether it's turret is a weakpoint or its sheild just reduce damage. You'll notice a spike damage when aiming for headshots if ranging. Melees don't see headshots weakspots most of the time because they can't aim for it.


On topic: IMO, average stance is still the better stance towards knocking mobs. In most cases, with the exception of Darkers, a weak spot is really for when you just give a pounding zondeel/OE/KC/etc.
Weak Stance will be your go-to-stance for bosses. Just don't have WS while breaking parts.

[Chdata]

Erm that doesn't sound right, I'd have to test it but since the servers are down I'm gonna guess no, anyone else have an idea on this?

EDIT: Just tested this on a Oodan with a 30% fire Vita Esrain with and without Weak stance, hit slightly less with weak stance active so this is false.

How about tech spells?

[Kondibon]

Erm that doesn't sound right, I'd have to test it but since the servers are down I'm gonna guess no, anyone else have an idea on this?

EDIT: Just tested this on a Oodan with a 30% fire Vita Esrain with and without Weak stance, hit slightly less with weak stance active so this is false.

I said techs. Not weapons. ._. It only affects the elemental damage of techs. Even if it did effect weapons it would be like EWH and only affect the elemental damage bonus and thus end up being piddly anyway.

[Chdata]

He tested that because I asked if it affects weapons ;p

[Kondibon]

He tested that because I asked if it affects weapons ;p

Oh, derp. My bad x:

[UnLucky]

That'd be pretty hard to test in the first place. And even if it turned out that the elemental portion did work with Weak Stance, the nonelemental portion would take the penalty and be lower overall. If you targeted a weak point with the attack, then both portions would get Weak Stance's bonus regardless of the element.

[Bellion]

I can prove several of this wrong because of noticeable damage difference:

[SPOILER-BOX]Oodan-----------------head TPS, only ranged classes
Za Oodan-------------head TPS, only ranged classes
Fangulf----------------head
Gulf--------------------head
Aginis
Nab Rappy
Fangulfur--------------head
Gulfur------------------head
Digg
Sil Dinian--------------head
Sol Dinian-------------head
Dinian-----------------head
Fordoran
Nordiran
Windira
Baridran
Sil Sadinian-----------head
Sol Sadinian----------head
Sadinian---------------head
Set Sadnian-----------head
Fordoransa
Nordiransa
Chrome Dragon
Deegalla
Sol Deegalla
Spardan A-----------blue dot on top
Spargun--------------blue dot on top
Sparzyle-------------the bomb on head
Gilnach---------------core (you alread acknowledge it)
Signo Gun------------head
Signo Beat-----------very small blue core
Guardine
Guardinane
[/SPOILER-BOX]

Everything except Chrome(that's an actual boss with a head that is a universal weakpoint to all attack types) here only has weakpoints accessible to ranged attacks or no weakpoints at all. The Spardan family weakpoints(blue cores) are actually heads. Ever wonder why a Zonde doesn't do double damage 100% of the time, where a Cluster Bullet can if aimed well on them?

Gilnatch's new weakpoint is also a head. Zonde hits that so called core directly now and doesn't do double damage. My proof is when Gilnas open their core now, the Zonde can't hit the main core through locking on and instead hits that other core(head).

So, basically, the head weakpoints of everything else are only accessible through ranged attacks. Signo Gun and Beat are also head only ranged attack accessible. Guardibots and Windira don't have any weakpoints at all to any attack types.

[darthvader]

As Braver/Hu I can't imagine how to survive at AQs later on without average stance unless I'm going to stick with add bullet 24/7 which have... same damage modifier as hu/fi's add bullet (with weak and weak up maxed).
No 12 people raping waves of mobs at AQs, really need damage here.

[Zyrusticae]

Man, it's making me sad that you guys didn't read that I was talking specifically about melee weak points, not ranged weak points.

Also Chrome Dragon was a mistake (I forgot I wasn't listing bosses but by the time I realized someone had already quoted the post anyway), so ignore that one. Is the head really a weak point for everything? Because I noticed I do absolute shit damage to it (like I do everywhere else on that bastard).

[Bellion]

Yep, it's actually considered a weakpoint since the multiplier of the head is over x1 but nothing close to x2.

Edit: Well, I did 2.4k x 2 Sakura Ends on Chrome's legs and did 2.8k x 2 on his broken head. Ew, that's like a x1.2 weakpoint.

[Kondibon]

Man, it's making me sad that you guys didn't read that I was talking specifically about melee weak points, not ranged weak points.

Also Chrome Dragon was a mistake (I forgot I wasn't listing bosses but by the time I realized someone had already quoted the post anyway), so ignore that one. Is the head really a weak point for everything? Because I noticed I do absolute shit damage to it (like I do everywhere else on that bastard).

Chromes head becomes a weak point after you break it, but before that it's only weak to range.

[~Aya~]

Just use them both like you would brave/wise stance when it comes to switching for the right situation............ full time average until mini boss or boss and wait till you break and then swap to weak stance... you will hit much less with weak stance while attempting to aoe etc. You do not want to have to constantly switch during MPA unless a boss pops up.

Is there a difference between deactivating weak stance and activating average while weak is up to practically do the same? No..

[AgemFrostMage]

Does braver subclass with fighter well? I'm going to main fighter on my CAST but I'm already level 30 hunter so I'm kind of committed to it. The unlock requirement would do that -_-

[jooozek]

you will get more out of hunter if you plan to use katanas, way more - you won't have to worry about positioning either
if you plan to main fighter, hunter will get you way more than braver

[UnLucky]

Always always have Hunter as a main or subclass if you plan on using Striking attacks.

[SakuRei]

Yeah sorry for reviving this thread again, since I have a question in mind... I fiddled around in the Braver Skill info on Cirnopedia and looking at every advice on Braver Katana Path and mostly they recommend Weak Stance instead of Average Stance. So yeah, since I will be a Hunter Braver once I leveled up my Braver to 60. I looked up the combination buff of Average Stance + Fury Stance (vice versa) and Fury Stance + Weak Stance.

So let's quite do math here (Even though I hate and suck at math IRL.)

Testing Buff 1 Average Stance + Fury Stance:
[SPOILER-BOX]Average Stance + Fury Stance is around = FS@Lvl10 (125% S-Atk + 105% Damage and additional FS Up 1&2 @Lvl10 both which is 20% Stacked) + AS@Lvl10 (110% S-Atk + 110% additional damage from AS Up @Lvl10)

So Overall on Average Stance + Fury Stance will be: +470% S-Atk Increase. (Correct me if I'm wrong with this):-?[/SPOILER-BOX]

[SPOILER-BOX]Testing Buff 2 Fury Stance + Weak Stance:
Fury Stance + Weak Stance will be around = FS@Lvl10 (125% S-Atk + 105% Damage and additional FS Up 1&2 @Lvl10 both which is 20% Stacked) + WS@Lvl10 {If hit @ Weak Spot -> (130% S-Atk + 110% additional damage from WS Up @Lvl10)

Overall when hitting the weak spots will be = 490% S-Atk Increase when hitting the weak spots.[/SPOILER-BOX]

Testing Buff 3 Fury Stance + Weak Stance (When not hitting the weak spots):
[SPOILER-BOX]Fury Stance + Weak Stance will be around = FS@Lvl10 (125% S-Atk + 105% Damage and additional FS Up 1&2 @Lvl10 both which is 20% Stacked) + WS@Lvl10 {If not hit @ Weak Spot -> (130% - 90% + 110% Additional damage from WS Up @Lvl10)

Overall when not hitting the weak spots will be = 400% S-Atk Increase when not even hitting the weak spots.[/SPOILER-BOX]


So before I case close my post I need to ask some questions about this one.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Questionnaire List about Braver Skill Tree Decisions:

1.) As a pure Katana user should I just get Weak Stance instead of Average Stance due to short Differences of the buff?

2.) Is having both Weak Stance and Average Stance a bother? Why or Why not?

3.) Is Katana Combat okay to be just at Level 3 or should I go at lvl 10 Katana Combat?

4.) Should I bother Maxing @Lvl 5 the Just Reversal Cover/Recover or just leave it at Lvl 0?

5.) Should I just ignore the Average Stance Critical and Charge or Weak Stance Critical and Charge or should I still bother putting points on those branches?

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[gigawuts]

Percent bonuses don't add, they multiply (for these skills, anyway)

So you're looking at
HU bonuses (fury & JA Bonus): 1.25*1.1*1.1*1.1*1.2 = ~2.0 multiplier
average: 1.1*1.1 = 1.21 multiplier
average & HU: 2.42 multiplier

versus

weak: 1.3*1.1 = 1.43 multiplier
weak & HU: 2.86 multiplier

Also, these are not bonuses to your satk. These are bonuses to your final damage. Satk is compared with the enemy's defense, which will reduce it before pretty much anything else is taken into consideration.

For your other questions...
1. Debatable, I personally went with weak stance over average stance, since I'm mainly using katanas but want to use bows effectively as well
2. Yes and no. It depends on how strapped you are for SP
3. Again, debatable. I took it to 10 and very much enjoy the reduced time against bosses, the cooldown coincides with weak point vulnerabilities quite often
4. I did. Others did not.
6. For now, yes, you should ignore Critical skills. Criticals may be made more useful later on, but the purpose of critical skills is to offset low dex. Braver's all about dex, so...it's kind of a last resort option to increase damage if you really really really want to max out one particular stance.

[SakuRei]

Ohh... I see... Guess Weak Stance is still highly recommended. I might reset my character for it since Weak Stance + Fury Stance and I guess Katana Combat can also bring a finishing blow cause of high damage and critical on the last hit. Though I still might test Average Stance + Fury Stance first before I reset it back to 0. Well Thanks for the answers gigawuts :-)

[Cyclon]

weak: 1.3*1.1 = 1.43 multiplier
weak & HU: 2.86 multiplier
And 1,9 multiplier on anything that isn't a weak spot.
/Edit : Wait, it's a 10% reduction, not 5% like I thought it was.
So make that a 1,8 multiplier./

The problem if you're not planning on using bows at all would be that... Katanas aren't a weapon focused on single target damage as of now. Lots of its damage when mobbing comes from hitting several targets, and if you're hitting several targets there's a good chance you're not hitting weak points every time. Of course this is subject to change but as of now, in the context of an AQ for example, weak stance can be a relatively bad choice.
Still, it's excellent against most bosses, and as such skipping it would be a waste, so... yeah, I personally think having both is the way to go, even though of course, it requires sacrifices.

Guess I'll answer those five too anyway
1: In my opinion, both are important if you don't intend to use bows at all.
2: It can get problematic but should be easier to manage than brave/wise stance, since generally you'll know which one you want on.
3: I'd say level 3 is fine. I'd consider maxing it if you solo a lot, though.
4: You should have it at level 1 at worst. From that point on, just play and see how much you like it. Then you'll know.
5: What gigawuts said. Since he didn't mention charge though, you need to know that these do not affect katana PAs with a charge/timing time. So you won't need them anyway.

[Zenobia]

I agree with what both Giga and Cyclon said but do not question 4 whether you get hit a lot or not depends on if you wanna max it or keep at 1.

Also Cyclon just read your sig stay away from Noir~Chan shes mine and I aint sharing o3o!

[Chik'Tikka]

I agree with what both Giga and Cyclon said but do not question 4 whether you get hit a lot or not depends on if you wanna max it or keep at 1.

Also Cyclon just read your sig stay away from Noir~Chan shes mine and I aint sharing o3o!

*cross post*
I killed your Noir~Chan!! whatcha gonna do?? huh punk?? +^_^+

*actually school girl dragon killed me, but it still died+^_^+*


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jHQ-IG9dMzs"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jHQ-IG9dMzs

[gigawuts]

you guys can have noir chan

i want zoraal chan

/swoon

[SakuRei]

Katanas aren't a weapon focused on single target damage as of now. Lots of its damage when mobbing comes from hitting several targets, and if you're hitting several targets there's a good chance you're not hitting weak points every time. Of course this is subject to change but as of now, in the context of an AQ for example, weak stance can be a relatively bad choice.

I guess that's a good point. Especially when using Katana Combat it sometimes tend to change targets a lot. Guess I might get both stances as a precaution for now I'll use average stance on normal mobs while weak stance on boss enemies. Thanks for the survey again guys. :D

[gigawuts]

Buy a good bow and put 1 sp into rapid shooting.

If you want dedicated melee braver really isn't going to offer as much long term continuous stopping power compared to mixing fighter and hunter in whatever way you prefer.

[SakuRei]

Buy a good bow and put 1 sp into rapid shooting.

If you want dedicated melee braver really isn't going to offer as much long term continuous stopping power compared to mixing fighter and hunter in whatever way you prefer.

Hmm... Nah, guess I'll pass on the Bullet Bow... I'm not good at handling Bullet Bow when I first tried the Braver heheh...^^; (comparing when I used Ranger & Gunner) Sooooo yeah... Last and veeeeery last question xD




1.) Is it much better/recommended to max out the Braver Mag or Leave it at Level 1 or nothing at all? (since I'm planning for my mag to be on pure S-Atk)

[gigawuts]

Bullet bow is probably the easiest ranged weapon in the game. Just use master shoot, penetrate arrow, and torrential arrow. MS and TA auto-aim fantastically, and penetrate arrow needs just 3+ enemies facing you in a line to be effective. Other moves like kamikaze somethingorother and gravity point are also effective but require some semblance of aiming. Sometimes.

It is literally impossible to be good with katanas but bad with bullet bows and you're playing half a class if you completely dismiss them. "I'm not good with partisans, so I won't use assault buster."

Braver Mag gives you bonus satk and ratk for the dex your mag has. If you're planning a mag with no dex it won't do anything for you.

[SakuRei]

Braver Mag gives you bonus satk and ratk for the dex your mag has. If you're planning a mag with no dex it won't do anything for you.

Soooo guess I'll pass with Braver Mag as well. Well finally my short survey is done :D Again, thanks gigawuts for the answers (o ^w^)-b

[Zenobia]

*cross post*
I killed your Noir~Chan!! whatcha gonna do?? huh punk?? +^_^+

*actually school girl dragon killed me, but it still died+^_^+*

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jHQ-IG9dMzs

SOMEONE WANTS DER BLACK BOX RIPPED FROM THEIR CHASM....YOU MONSTER'S

Lest she killed you doh go go Noir~Chan Q.Q!

[Cyclon]

SOMEONE WANTS DER BLACK BOX RIPPED FROM THEIR CHASM....YOU MONSTER'S

Lest she killed you doh go go Noir~Chan Q.Q!
I'm like, going to make my own sig real awkward, but... who said it was a girl? It could be a young boy.

...yes I really just did that.

[Zipzo]

Other moves like kamikaze somethingorother and gravity point are also effective but require some semblance of aiming. Sometimes.

With maybe a little more frivolous and frequent use of Kamikaze you'd probably be singing a slightly more praise-worthy tune, though I don't know how much experience you have with spamming it, I really believe this.

Kamikaze is single-handedly the derpiest face-roll PA added to the game. It does a mega-truck ton of damage for a realtively short charge time, and it even works quickly as it homes the target. There's very little trade off for how much damage it does. It's the "Over end" of Bows.

Master shot for anything long range.

Honestly...bow is easily the best ranged weapon in the entire game. It's makes the Katana look like a gimpy stick in comparison and to top it off, 10* bows are actually affordable. It's really no surprise everyone is mostly leaning on Bow.

I really wouldn't be surprised if upcoming Braver edits included a tuning down of the Bow, and a tuning up of the Katana, as it is it's really hard to justify how much damage the Bow does, and conversely how little the Katana does.

[gigawuts]

Yeah kamikaze is pretty fantastic, I hadn't touched it since normal but oh wow did it really come through in VH. It's the best pp->damage conversion PA bravers have. Click click click click, and another click if you have enough PP.

[MetalDude]

The drop placements for the two 10* katanas still blows my mind. The best 10* bow is down to 4 mil. Coast AQ cannot come sooner so we get less stupid katana drops.

[Zenobia]

I'm like, going to make my own sig real awkward, but... who said it was a girl? It could be a young boy.

...yes I really just did that.

Traps are best too~

Also yeah I find myself liking bow equally or rather just as much as I like Katana and I am opting for a pure r atk mag now just for it >.>.......