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MetalDude
Aug 7, 2013, 05:41 AM
Discuss. Got to mess with them for a bit before logging, but here's what I feel so far.

Knuckles: Still not far enough with hitlag but it's a huge improvement. Pendulum Roll is now not completely useless for mobbing now and Flash Thousand is reasonably fast. Normals feel much better.

T. Daggers: Can't calculate damage increase yet but Bloody Sarabande is really powerful. Too bad damage buffs can't fix T. Daggers shitty mobbing capabilities or the fact that its aerial combat is still instantly ruined once something floats out of range (unless you seriously think spending PP every time to get back in range is a good idea), but for the situations where it fits the bill (and BS is really quite good and hitting clusters) it's actually a reasonable choice now.

A step in the right direction at least I'll say this far.

Rien
Aug 7, 2013, 05:42 AM
Two words: Straight Charge!

Terrence
Aug 7, 2013, 05:54 AM
Can't calculate damage increase yet but Bloody Sarabande is really powerful. Too bad damage buffs can't fix T. Daggers shitty mobbing capabilities.
Did you REALLY use Bloody Sarabande to say such a thing ? Crowd control with this is sooo easy. The last part of the PA strike almost at 180° (and pretty far too). But yeah, its damage is really great. They boosted Twin Dagger Gear too, by the way. Did somebody test it ?

SakoHaruo
Aug 7, 2013, 06:15 AM
went in Ruins AQs (lv60 enemies). I can't really tell if my TD damage is better since I was one shotting everything with bloody sarabande before the update.

a lot of the hit stop on knuckles is gone, liking it a lot. I can even DC to build meter faster.

edit; Normal attacks are much faster

Dodge(not dash) Cancels are much much faster.

S.Charge goes through enemies (like it should)
Went to Big Vee. Test S.Charge on his back parts.

S.Upper is much faster

Flash is much faster, but the first hit still feels the same.

Quake hasn't change at all. well, feels the same to me.

P.Roll is faster


I can't tell if I'm doing better damage with TD. What did they change again? was it only a damage buff?

Z-0
Aug 7, 2013, 07:30 AM
Build Twin Dagger Gear, that's what they edited.

Kitoshi
Aug 7, 2013, 07:59 AM
Build Twin Dagger Gear, that's what they edited.

I believe it was an actual power increase on the gear.
Not a gear build.

I could be wrong obviously, but i remember reading something like that a while back when they announced this.

Z-0
Aug 7, 2013, 08:00 AM
Yes, that is exactly what it is. I'm telling them to build gear to test it as the gear is what they edited. : P

supersonix9
Aug 7, 2013, 08:04 AM
The Twin Dagger boost is pretty substantial.

NoiseHERO
Aug 7, 2013, 08:08 AM
Looks like I'm not selling my fighting beats so far. 8D

And between fists and daggers... <_<

/kicks D'arch tool under bed

Kitoshi
Aug 7, 2013, 08:14 AM
Yes, that is exactly what it is. I'm telling them to build gear to test it as the gear is what they edited. : P

Ah so, missunderstood, my bad.

SakoHaruo
Aug 7, 2013, 08:21 AM
Hmm, I'm still not sure. Sadly I don't remember my numbers ^^;

As for meter gain, I usually do an on the ground spin into a JA, so I'm only a few inches from touching the ground, keeping the gear I build from the spin. I know before the update it only builds one bar and it still does. double low spin still build 2 gear bars.

seems like everything is the same to me lol. someone who knows the numbers will have to test TD. sorry, I tried. >_>

NoiseHERO
Aug 7, 2013, 08:23 AM
The only thing that should've changed was the damage buff from gear as far as I know.

Freshellent
Aug 7, 2013, 10:09 AM
Snap, I wasn't aware of a buff at all. I remember people talking lotta smack about knuckles and how they underperformed but all I've found is that they just wreck chit up all over.

Almost every knuckle PA has a use to me, I have a hard time deciding which ones to stick with as I can just switch them around for every fight.

Daggers are pretty beast too, Fighter is an extremely rewarding experience with gears.

Kitoshi
Aug 7, 2013, 12:30 PM
Snap, I wasn't aware of a buff at all. I remember people talking lotta smack about knuckles and how they underperformed but all I've found is that they just wreck chit up all over.

Almost every knuckle PA has a use to me, I have a hard time deciding which ones to stick with as I can just switch them around for every fight.

Daggers are pretty beast too, Fighter is an extremely rewarding experience with gears.

The problem was the hit stop, not the actual pa's.

knuckle PA's were good, knuckle hit stop was just beyond terrible.

And when it comes to these buffs, knuckle hit stop is near none existant atm, i love it.

Dagger gear got well..... I 1 PA'ed a luda sorc in very hard coast free explore with bloody sarabande.

MetalDude
Aug 7, 2013, 12:35 PM
Did you REALLY use Bloody Sarabande to say such a thing ? Crowd control with this is sooo easy. The last part of the PA strike almost at 180° (and pretty far too). But yeah, its damage is really great. They boosted Twin Dagger Gear too, by the way. Did somebody test it ?

Heh, I realized that after I posted it, but I feel that HU weapons do it so much faster and grant far better mobility in the process. Like I said, T. Daggers are very much damage viable now, it's just that their functionality still needs a lot of work to really feel great. They need a free movement option like GU has with the flip along with a very cheap and fast PA that really puts them in close without wasting too much time or requiring you to then readjust your height.

gigawuts
Aug 7, 2013, 12:50 PM
The problem was the hit stop, not the actual pa's.

knuckle PA's were good, knuckle hit stop was just beyond terrible.

And when it comes to these buffs, knuckle hit stop is near none existant atm, i love it.

Dagger gear got well..... I 1 PA'ed a luda sorc in very hard coast free explore with bloody sarabande.

Standard sega balancing.

"Oh, this is a huge chore to use and is unintuitive? Give it OMGWTF damage so players use it anyway."

Cyclon
Aug 7, 2013, 01:13 PM
Standard sega balancing.

"Oh, this is a huge chore to use and is unintuitive? Give it OMGWTF damage so players use it anyway."Dagger gear boost wasn't that big. Maybe like... 10% more damage than before at max gear.

gigawuts
Aug 7, 2013, 01:14 PM
I qualify things that are apparently oneshotting luda sorcerers as OMGWTF. Be it a combination of factors such as a new attack and boosted gear, or whatever.

Anyway, you don't need to know your old damage since we know the old boost (30% and 40%, iirc?). Just test your damage without any gear and then with gear, using crits on the same attacks. Or wait for the JP wiki to update.

Kitoshi
Aug 7, 2013, 01:18 PM
I qualify things that are apparently oneshotting luda sorcerers as OMGWTF. Be it a combination of factors such as a new attack and boosted gear, or whatever.

Anyway, you don't need to know your old damage since we know the old boost (30% and 40%, iirc?). Just test your damage without any gear and then with gear, using crits on the same attacks. Or wait for the JP wiki to update.

I basically fully hit weak spot, all hits.

I was on level 15 bloody sarabande, fury stance fully maxed out (including fury stance up 2 to max and everything in between), 50 lightning element lambda rezgaga +10 (no potential), level 10 brave stance and level 10 brave stance up.

Shifta drink large and no shifta on me, the last 3 hits were like 9k a piece, i believe luda sorc in itself has roughly 45k hp.

My units were +10 luxe soir/black wings with quartz soul/power 3.

Just to give it a bit more perspective on what I did to 1 PA it.

gigawuts
Aug 7, 2013, 01:20 PM
Yeah, that's still pretty strong.

KuroKanden
Aug 7, 2013, 01:24 PM
Absolutely adore the changes they made to Knuckles, now SC functions just about as well as AB.

Enforcer MKV
Aug 7, 2013, 01:25 PM
This is one of those cases where I just went "Like I don't need another reason to use knuckles." and giggled like an idiot as I Pendulum Rolled EVERYTHING. xD

Cyclon
Aug 7, 2013, 01:35 PM
Yeah, that's still pretty strong.Have you tried out bloody sarabande yet? It's far above anything else daggers have.
From what little I've seen bloody sarabande is what changes everything about daggers' efficiency. The gear boost in itself is cool, but rather inconsequential.

KuroKanden
Aug 7, 2013, 01:43 PM
With the recent addition of Bloody sarabande , it has rendered TD to be the to-go weapon for FI for me. The skill itself is rather powerful for a PA that costs only 30 PP, that and given the ability to dash there is really of little reason to use DS now apart from the burst. It's just like how Swords suddenly skyrocketed in usage after they released Overend. Same goes for Backhand Smash, this skill is INCREDIBLE burst, just hard to connect .. but this can be very rewarding in scenarios like arms.

What makes me wonder is, it took SEGA all this time to address the issues on knuckles hitlag. lol

Massamix3.0
Aug 7, 2013, 01:45 PM
Knuckles are now viable. Enjoy Fighters.

gigawuts
Aug 7, 2013, 01:49 PM
Have you tried out bloody sarabande yet? It's far above anything else daggers have.
From what little I've seen bloody sarabande is what changes everything about daggers' efficiency. The gear boost in itself is cool, but rather inconsequential.

Yeah that...that kind of makes my point for me. They gave an underperforming weapon a way more powerful move which did absolutely nothing to treat the issue daggers actually have: they are bad at their role and their old attacks are generally underwhelming.

It'd be like if they gave partisans only sacred skewer instead of assault buster and slide end. Partisans were mediocre at their role - close range AOE - so let's give them a precise long range attack and nothing else!

Cyclon
Aug 7, 2013, 01:52 PM
Yeah that...that kind of makes my point for me. They gave an underperforming weapon a way more powerful move which did absolutely nothing to treat the issue daggers actually have: they are bad at their role and their old attacks are generally underwhelming.

It'd be like if they gave partisans only sacred skewer instead of assault buster and slide end. Partisans were mediocre at their role - close range AOE - so let's give them a precise long range attack and nothing else!
Yup, but this update has nothing to do with daggers being strong. That's all I'm saying.

TaigaUC
Aug 7, 2013, 02:06 PM
Yeah that...that kind of makes my point for me.

Same impression I got, really. Bloody Sarabande singlehandedly makes Twin Daggers vastly more effective - auto guard, AOE, and far higher damage than anything else.
Many of the new Techs/PAs also almost feel like a requirement for the new areas. Maybe it's just me.

I'm still wondering when they're going to put in the dagger PA from the benchmark cutscene.

Tetsuo9999
Aug 7, 2013, 03:30 PM
I'm glad they're finally encourage the use of the other two Fighter weapons besides double sabers, but they still need to fix the damage output on the non-Sarabande twin dagger PAs. How substantial is the gear buff that they received today?

FireswordRus
Aug 7, 2013, 04:24 PM
Raging Waltz after gear boost

http://www.twitch.tv/fireswordmrm/c/2710351

Alisha
Aug 7, 2013, 07:56 PM
i take a lot of risks when i play melee and i must say the invince frames on BS are freaking huge.

MetalDude
Aug 7, 2013, 08:07 PM
The only thing I really really want out of the combat in this game right now (besides less appalling hitboxes) is indicators for invincibility frames because moves like BS and MT have obvious gaps in their invincibility but it's just really vague as to where and having visuals show that would help tremendously with dodging.

Kitoshi
Aug 8, 2013, 07:59 AM
Raging Waltz after gear boost

http://www.twitch.tv/fireswordmrm/c/2710351

I am curious what your damage was before the gear boost.

18k seems pretty..... crazy.

Hosaka
Aug 8, 2013, 08:16 AM
Reading this thread kind of proves how many people on PSOW like to act as if they know what they're talking about, when they obviously have no fucking clue.


T. Daggers: Can't calculate damage increase yet but Bloody Sarabande is really powerful. Too bad damage buffs can't fix T. Daggers shitty mobbing capabilities or the fact that its aerial combat is still instantly ruined once something floats out of range (unless you seriously think spending PP every time to get back in range is a good idea), but for the situations where it fits the bill (and BS is really quite good and hitting clusters) it's actually a reasonable choice now.

TDs became Fighter's best mobbing weapon when Sarabande was introduced. All the buff did was make it even better.


Heh, I realized that after I posted it, but I feel that HU weapons do it so much faster and grant far better mobility in the process. Like I said, T. Daggers are very much damage viable now, it's just that their functionality still needs a lot of work to really feel great. They need a free movement option like GU has with the flip along with a very cheap and fast PA that really puts them in close without wasting too much time or requiring you to then readjust your height.

lol


Knuckles are now viable. Enjoy Fighters.

>implying knucks weren't viable before, especially when Backhand Smash came around

gg, people acting like they actually play Fighter.

gigawuts
Aug 8, 2013, 08:25 AM
Knuckles were viable for all the wrong reasons. Straight Charge gave them an excessive amount of AOE (yes really) because hitstop was so ridiculously high. Flash Thousand basically didn't have hitstop at all. Surprise Knuckle was only 3 hits, so hitstop wasn't much of a concern. These were either bugs or later additions, leaving the list of original moves pretty much awful.

But, even those moves had their glaring flaws, such as knocking enemies out of their own hit ranges just for being used "correctly" (or more specifically, being used how the devs clearly intended), straight charge was clearly meant to actually pass through groups but never actually did, etc.

Pendulum Roll didn't hit hard enough for how long the animation was. None of the launch moves actually hit hard enough for how long their animations were. Ducking Blow, Straight Upper, etc. may have looked like they hit hard, but when you put those moves next to the likes of AB (either one, lol) or any number of moves on other weapons knuckles looked downright pathetic.

Expecting players to grind up a powerful set of knuckles for those kinds of incredibly specific situations, when other weapons match or even outperform them at the same job while doing plenty of other things with a longer list of viable moves, is a joke of game design. At present weapons sell their worth based on the variety of tasks they can handle, and knuckles were advertising essentially one: Mediocre point blank single-target damage without even having just guard, only a very brief and unintuitive dodge that can cancel most moves.

Backhand Smash was the same kind of treatment as Bloody Sarabande was to daggers, except BHS actually fit the role of knuckles unlike BS which would honestly have been more fitting on double sabers.

AgemFrostMage
Aug 8, 2013, 08:38 AM
With the recent addition of Bloody sarabande , it has rendered TD to be the to-go weapon for FI for me. The skill itself is rather powerful for a PA that costs only 30 PP, that and given the ability to dash there is really of little reason to use DS now apart from the burst. It's just like how Swords suddenly skyrocketed in usage after they released Overend. Same goes for Backhand Smash, this skill is INCREDIBLE burst, just hard to connect .. but this can be very rewarding in scenarios like arms.

What makes me wonder is, it took SEGA all this time to address the issues on knuckles hitlag. lol

Overend is overrated, takes too long to actually do damage and can't be dodged out of it unlike speed rain, the best hunter PA. It is great when timed right or enemies stunned, but is situational but it's great it has the range and can knock down fliers... when they aren't in an attack animation -_-

gigawuts
Aug 8, 2013, 08:41 AM
Overend is overrated, takes too long to actually do damage and can't be dodged out of it unlike speed rain, the best hunter PA. It is great when timed right or enemies stunned, but is situational but it's great it has the range and can knock down fliers... when they aren't in an attack animation -_-

You are either level 25, a player that cannot properly judge when to use which attack, or an elaborate troll.

Z-0
Aug 8, 2013, 08:42 AM
I'm level 60, and Over End really is overrated.

Although Speed Rain being the best Hunter PA… wut?

FireswordRus
Aug 8, 2013, 08:57 AM
I am curious what your damage was before the gear boost.

18k seems pretty..... crazy.

~12k was before

Cyclon
Aug 8, 2013, 09:21 AM
Knuckles were viable for all the wrong reasons. Straight Charge gave them an excessive amount of AOE (yes really) because hitstop was so ridiculously high. Flash Thousand basically didn't have hitstop at all. Surprise Knuckle was only 3 hits, so hitstop wasn't much of a concern. These were either bugs or later additions, leaving the list of original moves pretty much awful.

But, even those moves had their glaring flaws, such as knocking enemies out of their own hit ranges just for being used "correctly" (or more specifically, being used how the devs clearly intended), straight charge was clearly meant to actually pass through groups but never actually did, etc.

Pendulum Roll didn't hit hard enough for how long the animation was. None of the launch moves actually hit hard enough for how long their animations were. Ducking Blow, Straight Upper, etc. may have looked like they hit hard, but when you put those moves next to the likes of AB (either one, lol) or any number of moves on other weapons knuckles looked downright pathetic.

Expecting players to grind up a powerful set of knuckles for those kinds of incredibly specific situations, when other weapons match or even outperform them at the same job while doing plenty of other things with a longer list of viable moves, is a joke of game design. At present weapons sell their worth based on the variety of tasks they can handle, and knuckles were advertising essentially one: Mediocre point blank single-target damage without even having just guard, only a very brief and unintuitive dodge that can cancel most moves.

Backhand Smash was the same kind of treatment as Bloody Sarabande was to daggers, except BHS actually fit the role of knuckles unlike BS which would honestly have been more fitting on double sabers."erases comment"
Okay you know what, I'll leave that one to someone else. But your post makes me wonder just how much you've really been using knuckles.

~12k was beforeWell, look who's going back to the testing grounds.

Shinamori
Aug 8, 2013, 09:23 AM
Knuckles are now viable. Enjoy Fighters.
That was the case when they added Backhand Smash.

gigawuts
Aug 8, 2013, 09:32 AM
"erases comment"
Okay you know what, I'll leave that one to someone else. But your post makes me wonder just how much you've really been using knuckles.
Well, look who's going back to the testing grounds.

No, please, by all means. Go ahead.

Cyclon
Aug 8, 2013, 10:11 AM
No, please, by all means. Go ahead.Well okay, let's see...
First paragraph : Flash thousand did have hitstop, Surprise knuckle really wasn't one of the best tools of the weapon
Second : You're basically saying Straight charge is flawed for being better at winning the game than intended
Third : Pendulum roll is still fairly bad because hitstop wasn't its only problem, you are comparing a weapon class as a whole to tools from other weapons widely considered as broken to prove that it sucked.

About Ducking blow, Slide upper and the dodge being subpar or bad, I'll let this video do the talking:
http://nicoviewer.net/sm19704184
Mind you that's not supposed to be impressive, that just happens to be what knuckles have been about for the longest time, in my experience anyway. Ducking blow in particular has been the best they've had from release to Backhand smash, along with Straight charge probably. Your post gave me the impression that you thought they sucked even within the knuckles' meta.

I think that was about all I said plus some mindless comments here and there.


~12k was beforeOkay I apologize but, are you sure about that? That'd be about three times the boost I'm observing.

gigawuts
Aug 8, 2013, 10:28 AM
Well okay, let's see...
First paragraph : Flash thousand did have hitstop, Surprise knuckle really wasn't one of the best tools of the weaponI said "basically didn't," as in it had such little hitstop so as to be inconsequential. Which was true, especially when compared to alternative knuckle attacks, and trying to interpret it in a way that means anything else is a pretty big stretch. Surprise Knuckle was a good move for its good hits, its movement towards the target, and the ability to dodge out of it (whereas most knuckle PAs only permit the duck action to cancel).

Second : You're basically saying Straight charge is flawed for being better at winning the game than intendedCorrect. It was powerful for the wrong reasons. Hitstop was so incredibly excessive that it pushed straight charge all the way through "terrible" back out to the other end where it became good again, keeping you on one side (or even one hitbox) for the duration of the move, letting you benefit from the stance for the entirety of the move and combo into it a second time with ease and without needing to reposition yourself.

Third : Pendulum roll is still fairly bad because hitstop wasn't its only problem, you are comparing a weapon class as a whole to tools from other weapons widely considered as broken to prove that it sucked.I never said pendulum roll wasn't still bad. I said it was bad before. The move was terrible primarily because it was faced with 5 excessively long hitstops for mediocre damage over a very long animation. Which is what I said.


About Ducking blow, Slide upper and the dodge being subpar or bad, I'll let this video do the talking:
http://nicoviewer.net/sm19704184
Mind you that's not supposed to be impressive, that just happens to be what knuckles have been about for the longest time, in my experience anyway. Ducking blow in particular has been the best they've had from release to Backhand smash, along with Straight charge probably. Your post gave me the impression that you thought they sucked even within the knuckles' meta.

I think that was about all I said plus some mindless comments here and there.My post's impression isn't what you should care about, my post's words should be what you care about. This whole breakdown is pretty indicative that that isn't the case.

You didn't actually correct or add anything that I didn't cover in that post. It seems like you just wanted to call me wrong for the sake of it.

The largest flaw with knuckles, for me, has to be the awful PP recovery on normals. I mean really, it is downright horrible. Compared 1:1 with other weapons it isn't that much worse, so why is it bad? Its horrible lack of range, and the fact that it's designed for single target combat (such as 1v1ing bosses). Most other weapons will be looking at hitting multiple enemies with normal swings, to recover 2-3x the PP in ordinary situations. Knuckles need to struggle with their positioning to accomplish this on a regular basis. That video you linked only demonstrates my case: The moves hit for meh damage over too long of an animation in too small of an area. This, plus PAs that focus on either single strikes for 28pp (which is way too costly for one single hit that isn't even very strong) and power moves that cost you a whopping 40pp or more makes the PP recovery exceptionally underwhelming.

Cyclon
Aug 8, 2013, 11:26 AM
I said "basically didn't," as in it had such little hitstop so as to be inconsequential. Which was true, especially when compared to alternative knuckle attacks, and trying to interpret it in a way that means anything else is a pretty big stretch.That's pretty much the dance I had no wish to get into. You said "basically didn't at all". I don't see it as a stretch.

Surprise Knuckle was a good move for its good hits, its movement towards the target, and the ability to dodge out of it (whereas most knuckle PAs only permit the duck action to cancel).Okay, experience here once again, it sends targets out of your field of view, sometimes even out of its own hitbox, or in "wise" position, considerably lowering your damage. I really never found much of a use for it, especially since dps wise ducking blow is superior even when all of the hits connect correctly.

Correct. It was powerful for the wrong reasons. Hitstop was so incredibly excessive that it pushed straight charge all the way through "terrible" back out to the other end where it became good again, keeping you on one side (or even one hitbox) for the duration of the move, letting you benefit from the stance for the entirety of the move and combo into it a second time with ease and without needing to reposition yourself.So charging it a second time? Or uncharged both? Not sure about what you mean here. It wasn't anything special uncharged damage wise.

I never said pendulum roll wasn't still bad. I said it was bad before. The move was terrible primarily because it was faced with 5 excessively long hitstops for mediocre damage over a very long animation. Which is what I said.Even without the hitstop its damage is too low. Which is what you didn't say.

My post's impression isn't what you should care about, my post's words should be what you care about. This whole breakdown is pretty indicative that that isn't the case.
You didn't actually correct or add anything that I didn't cover in that post. It seems like you just wanted to call me wrong for the sake of it.I kept it simple by lack of motivation and also to avoid misunderstandings that would just result in a considerable loss of time for the both of us.

The largest flaw with knuckles, for me, has to be the awful PP recovery on normals. I mean really, it is downright horrible. Compared 1:1 with other weapons it isn't that much worse, so why is it bad? Its horrible lack of range, and the fact that it's designed for single target combat (such as 1v1ing bosses). Most other weapons will be looking at hitting multiple enemies with normal swings, to recover 2-3x the PP in ordinary situations. Knuckles need to struggle with their positioning to accomplish this on a regular basis.Knuckles do(did) attack faster. Well sort of. It's at least very easy to repeatedly dodge cancel the first hit. It's really not that bad, I'd even say it's better than most, but I have yet to run comparisons. Of course it lacks range, but the way this same first hit could be repeatedly mixed into my basic dps pattern(dodge d. blow dodge d.blow dodge d.blow)made it fairly easy to actually have control over my PP pool at all times, and very few weapon classes can say the same.

That video you linked only demonstrates my case: The moves hit for meh damage over too long of an animation in too small of an area. This, plus PAs that focus on either single strikes for 28pp (which is way too costly for one single hit that isn't even very strong) and power moves that cost you a whopping 40pp or more makes the PP recovery exceptionally underwhelming.His damage isn't that low if you keep in mind that he's at cap 50, so before the Hu buffs, fighting one of the enemies with the highest defense in the game. He also aimed for the best time he could get, but didn't use flash thousand a single time. Maybe he didn't have it? Seriously, you underestimate ducking blow if you think flash thousand is a "power move" in comparison. And slow? He's literally using one PA per second. I certainly wouldn't call that slow.

I'd like to add that ducking blow's invicibility frames mixed with the command dodge and control over your PP regen allows you to keep hitting the boss without a pause to guard or to step or whatever. It's not INTERESTING gameplay per se, though. But it's pretty effective.

And to be clear here, I'm not trying to demonstrate that knuckles are the best. They're not. And if I don't go against something you said that's because I don't care too much or actually agree with it. Or don't know.

gigawuts
Aug 8, 2013, 11:50 AM
if you are actually going to try to hold what I didn't say against me I have absolutely no desire to have any dialogue whatsoever with you

because wow

Cyclon
Aug 8, 2013, 11:57 AM
if you are actually going to try to hold what I didn't say against me I have absolutely no desire to have any dialogue whatsoever with you

because wowFair enough.

Edit : Okay, thought I'd ask again just in case:

~12k was before So, okay, I've done some testing and I get nowhere near as high as a boost as you did. So are you sure? Because if you are, that means there may be more to it than a simple damage boost. Maybe.

FireswordRus
Aug 8, 2013, 12:41 PM
Fair enough.

Edit : Okay, thought I'd ask again just in case:
So, okay, I've done some testing and I get nowhere near as high as a boost as you did. So are you sure? Because if you are, that means there may be more to it than a simple damage boost. Maybe.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=ioxnij_AjMg&t=1075

full deff tree 4500, full atttack tree gives 9k + potential ~3k =12K

SakoHaruo
Aug 8, 2013, 01:38 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=ioxnij_AjMg&t=1075

full deff tree 4500, full atttack tree gives 9k + potential ~3k =12K

Hmm, That's a pretty good buff for Waltz. I actually use TD on him just like you did in that video and kinda remember my damage. gonna try it out with 3 different Daggers.



lmao this knuckle convo again. round 2 ehh? I'll pass ^^;

gigawuts
Aug 8, 2013, 01:45 PM
There is no round 2. I very plainly stated things and someone jumped through hoops to act like everything I said was false.

Cyclon
Aug 8, 2013, 02:00 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=ioxnij_AjMg&t=1075

full deff tree 4500, full atttack tree gives 9k + potential ~3k =12KOkay. Sorry. Thank you.

There is no round 2. I very plainly stated things and someone jumped through hoops to act like everything I said was false.I don't even know if that's referring to me, but I agree entirely. No round 2.