PSA RE: Translations, Dll Injection, Bans

[Ship2Mikeh]

Hi there, my name is Mikeh, and I am from Ship 2, and I frequent Block 20. Some of you may know me. Some of you may not.

In case it helps anyone;
http://i.imgur.com/0ghm8lW.jpg

Anyway I'm here today to talk about something not so fun. I'm currently a Moderator from a website I am not going to mention by name. Where I am from we advocate illicit activities within PSO2, and I personally have been around the block and back 10fold, and again, many of you will know this.

With all of the experience I've gained speaking personally with Developers, and watching the progress of all sorts of little add-ons, launchers, translations, trainers, patches, and so much more. They all utilize different methods and I have noticed something very taboo and very risky happening around here, and some blatant lies being made.

I will first quote a disclaimer from a thread in this same section, this is from the most recent client sided translation tool;



DISCLAIMER:

As with any patch/modification/simply connecting to the server, there is no guarantee you will not get banned using this tool or the patches contained herein. The chance of you getting banned is the same as if you were only using the EN patch. It's a client side modification, so SEGA cannot currently detect it. You use this tool at your own risk, and as-is. Neither this tool, Arks-Layer, or PSOW or any affiliates are at fault if you do get banned. Thank you.


The above mentioned statement has multiple lies within it.

First I will explain that in the past, when I performed illicit activities on PSO2, that a method called "dll Injection" was used. Along the time of these tools being developed, Sega and Gameguard were actively fighting back blocking, patching, and preventing dll injection hacks, by looking for obvious names of dll's active and hooked.

Now I'd like to mention to you all that the new Client-sided translator uses dll injection methods, and is blatantly obvious, and in no way hidden, meaning if GG sees it, they will look at you as a hacker with no prejudice, whether you hacked or not, dll injection is straight up not allowed.

So I guess to finalize what I'd like to say is that the Disclaimer on the Translation Tool is very Innacturate, treat it as if you would treat dll injected hacks, we protected ourselves more and were still regularily banned, this translation is not taking protective measures.


TL;DR
I advise you all to treat the translation dll injection as if you would treat hacks. Sega, and gameguard are on the ball with all of this now. It's Safe to assume that if you use the translation dll injected tool, that you're at the exact same risk as if you injected a trainer and started hacking away

[hungryneko]

I don't understand but sound serious, anyone clarify?

[arcnmx]

loldrama.

So your point is that Sega might specifically try to detect the item patch because they intend to ban anyone using it. Therefore it's the same risk as being banned for the normal EN patch - if they don't like it they'll ban for it. I don't see the problem?

Also hi :D

[Ship2Mikeh]

loldrama.

So your point is that Sega might specifically try to detect the item patch because they intend to ban anyone using it. Therefore it's the same risk as being banned for the normal EN patch - if they don't like it they'll ban for it. I don't see the problem?

Also hi :D


Also, if the translator by any chance happen to even view a block of memory that it shouldn't there's a good chance that the game itself will flag the translator. When that happens, your account will be banned in 1 hour and 30 minutes ;)

~ From a Trainer developer who's dealt with Sega since before you were around Arcn, sorry man, it's way way worse than the current EN Patch...

[Vashyron]

I don't know if it is a DLL injection for sure, but if it is I would see them treating it as any other sort of Trainer yes.

[Ship2Mikeh]

I don't know if it is a DLL injection for sure, but if it is I would see them treating it as any other sort of Trainer yes.

It is.

[arcnmx]

Also, if the translator by any chance happen to even view a block of memory that it shouldn't there's a good chance that the game itself will flag the translator. When that happens, your account will be banned in 1 hour and 30 minutes ;)

Oh, cool to know. Wish I could take the time to look into the game properly but nooooope no time.

You're right though, they're more likely to target it if they look into it.

[Ship2Mikeh]

Incase you guys went right to tl;dr, I'd like to remention that GG will treat all hooked dlls without prejudice and then flag and ban accordingly.

[Neferpitou]

whoa whoa whoa *uninstalls item patch*

glad someone cares about us getting banned, i knew it was too good to be true anyway.

[Gardios]

So your point is that Sega might specifically try to detect the item patch because they intend to ban anyone using it. Therefore it's the same risk as being banned for the normal EN patch - if they don't like it they'll ban for it. I don't see the problem?

It's not the same. The EN patch just replaces some files which no one really cares about. The Item Translator (apparently) does something else which GG tries to detect, which puts you at risk of being accused of being a hacker and subsequently banned.

Edit: I type too slow.

[Niris]

Nice idea but not worth the risk. I'll stick to tabbing in and out of cirnopedia to figure out whats what.

[Ship2Mikeh]

It's an absolutely PHENOMINAL IDEA, but I spent 2 months watching turk toil away for days and days putting it together, and that the time it was a good idea but I dont think meant for the public, as again, it was just as bad as hacks, we never even had it released on the hacking site, having it released here is just not right... And the incorrect disclaimer... redonkadonk

[Neferpitou]

Nice idea but not worth the risk. I'll stick to tabbing in and out of cirnopedia to figure out whats what.

This, thank god for Cirnopedia.

[Gardios]

That'd odd, because we've been using it (and doing much worse things to find it) for over 2 weeks... and yet we're not banned. Sorry, but you're incorrect all across the board here.

It's not like they hand out bans immediately. Well, they shouldn't anyway.

I don't think this was meant as a personal attack or anything, just informing anyone using it to be aware of possible consequences.

[Ship2Mikeh]

I was block 20's most public hacker aside from 2 others, but I was out in crowds, for days and days an days. Development eventually stopped for a very specific reason, hackers vanished for a very specific reason. Can you not put two and two together? I'm not trying to hit your credibility, I'm explaining the current state of affairs, the current way we've noticed them working and much more. Just make sure ya don't hit that one wrong memory block, or you and your 130K viewers will be quite displeased... I'm not saying for people not to use it, I LOVE THIS TOOL. The risk just needs to be made apparent. I'm not trying to make drama, I'm trying to let everyone know the risks, which you should have been responsible for, and neglected to do. Smarten up or be prepared to have to deal with all those banned for yours and your teams indiscretion.

Edit: Also if you keep up with PSO2's site, you'll see they usually do burst bans rofl

[Ship2Mikeh]

That was in reference to him saying "durr hurr I know someone at sega and you'll get banned after an hour and 30 minutes of using this". Hilarious.

I didn'st say I know anyone at sega, and for a fact do NOT, we've analysed they're banning patterns, we've suffered them, we've watched others on our forums explain their experiences. You're being ignorant and now throwing false statements into what I said.

[Cyron Tanryoku]

oh no we're doomed we're banned
nintendo is doomed
sony is finished
xbox go home

[AlaskanKactus]

Is this supposed to be news?

I thought this was all made clear in the Item Translation thread. The Item Patch is USE AT YOUR OWN RISK. Although it is a bit more risky than the EN patch, its still a trade off to playing a JP game. Not to mention that the Item Patch is still in its early stages compared to the EN patch.

I believe AIDA and the team have made it clear many times before.

[SZiadaN]

@AIDA
There's a reason to why I have up to 60+ account's called "Tester#", and they're all banned.

Also I noticed you said "your trainer" to mikeh, thought I'd clarify that he's not Sziadan, I am.

[Ship2Mikeh]

^ that, I'm speaking on behalf of the community that shall not be named. @ Sz's post

And AIDA it can be any way whatsoever, it is in fact both and your continued ignorance at the power of code and anti-cheat's when you yourself made a tool is making this a very very humorous discussion

[darkwraith007]

@ Mikeh and SZiadaN:
This entire thread seems to just be you wanting to cause drama. If you had any good intentions, then you'd have contacted AIDA directly via PM first thing if you had any concerns/questions about how the Tweaker or patches work. That would be the responsible thing to do rather than crying wolf like a stupid bitch.

@ Everyone Else:
You can trust an asshat script-kiddie of a 'hacker' that thinks he's pro enough to come cause drama, or you can trust AIDA, the one who actually made the tweaker and knows how things work. Your choice.
For me, I'll trust what AIDA says because I believe they (and their team) don't want to see people get banned. If they ever felt it would be a possible threat then they wouldn't have gone through with the release of this update.

If you're paranoid enough to not want to enjoy translated items, feel free to disable it via the tweaker. Then it'll be completely gone and you can be happy with just the standard EN or JP files.
Everything in here (even the EN patch) has ALWAYS been disclaimer'd and stated that it is AT YOUR OWN RISK. If you didn't read that, then you should blame yourself rather than AIDA or anyone else.

[Raven0123]

Incase you guys went right to tl;dr, I'd like to remention that GG will treat all hooked dlls without prejudice and then flag and ban accordingly.

This statement is 100% false. GameGuard does NOT have the ability to ban anyone. GameGuard will at most BSOD your computer if it doesn't like what is going on. GameGuard does not let the server know what your running. It only checks into the server letting the server know that it is still running.

If GameGuard did do what you said it does, I would have been banned a long time ago on many games. Hell, they would have a Global Ban Filter just like Punk Buster. I know this because I have done A LOT of research on GameGuard and I even had the unfortunate pleasure of working with the software it self.

[Ship2Mikeh]

@ Mikeh:
This entire thread seems to just be you wanting to cause drama. If you had any good intentions, then you'd have contacted AIDA directly via PM first thing if you had any concerns/questions about how the Tweaker or patches work. That would be the responsible thing to do rather than crying wolf like a stupid bitch.

@ Everyone Else:
You can trust an asshat script-kiddie of a 'hacker' that thinks he's pro enough to come cause drama, or you can trust AIDA, the one who actually made the tweaker and knows how things work. Your choice.
For me, I'll trust what AIDA says because I believe they (and their team) don't want to see people get banned. If they ever felt it would be a possible threat then they wouldn't have gone through with a release that update.

Aida and the owner of PSO-W were both contacted directly repeatedly, this is not unwarranted and not for drama, the OP is all that matters and the rest of this is discussion

[Ship2Mikeh]

If by "repeatedly" you mean contacting me once in-game to make Turk got credit, then sure.

Furthermore, the admin of PSOW contacted me the other day about it, and we discussed it in detail.

I didn't say I did, again, read my posts. "I am here on behalf of the other site" I am trying to speak for it, and admins from our site DID directly make contact.

Edit: as well I'm refraining from posting some evidence I could post due to the site its on, and the lack of respect I'd portray posting it here.

[Ship2Mikeh]

Except no one make contact with AIDA. (Wait, I'm AIDA right? Lemme check...)

Okay, yeah, I'm AIDA.

Okay I'm sorry I mis-spoke a little, PSO-W's owner was contacted, and in response he contacted you. He did not apparently have the information because the certainty we have on these claims screams that your disclaimer is not truthful enough, or an accurate portrayal of the true risk.

Yes GG is specifically trying to stop sziadans trainer, but in doing so they're targetting ALL HOOKED DLL's. There shouldn't be a single DLL hooked to begin with and so their most logical best way to stop the crap would be a blanket hooked dll scan. Seriously AIDA.. Logic...

[SZiadaN]

There's a bit of a difference between your trainer, which modifies many, many, many values in memory all across the board, and our translator which modifies only certain text. Not to mention that gameguard personally hates you, and is constantly updating to detect your tool (every monday, if I recall).

If Gameguard was a SEGA product (which it's not) and actually phoned home when stuff went down (which it doesn't), then this would be a different discussion.

Yes, GG updated every monday to block my trainer.
I updated my trainer to go past that block.

I first noticed the 1.5 hour ban thing when I were using my trainer to pointer scan in large areas of the memory. When doing that I only read the memory, I don't modify it. And I read less stuff than your item translator do (most likely) to determine whether or not it's the correct pointer.


Do note that my 60+ tester accounts where made specifically just to confirm whether or not the client actually do ban you for just reading certain areas.

I did that just to make sure that I'm not releasing a trainer that will get people auto-banned for just loading it up.

The 1.5 hour ban is different from the wave ban.
SEGA themselves compile the lists of from reported people, people flagged by GG and so on, these are the ban waves.

Anyway, people here are free to believe whatever they want, I wont say anymore on this topic now.

As for the "this was rude of you" comment, isn't it even more rude to not explain the risks entirely to the use base?


Edit: Guess I'll just have to answer this too...

It's a good thing our way of DLL hooking is different from the manner you're talking about. You're assuming that we're simply injecting the DLL like you guys do, which is not the case. If you'd like, please contact Tomeeboy. I've fully explained our method to him, and why it's different from yours.
[spoiler-box]
http://i39.tinypic.com/zsmvrb.png
[/spoiler-box]
No, it's not. The difference is that GG will see yours as "translator.dll" and mine as something entirely different.

[Ship2Mikeh]

*cough*
http://imgur.com/w9Q4Zi3

[Raven0123]

*cough*
http://imgur.com/w9Q4Zi3

*cough* look at the other dlls in there *cough*
http://imgur.com/w9Q4Zi3

[SZiadaN]

You also seemed to have missed this post from one of our programmers, Raven.

Read:



Did I say GameGuard is the one performing the ban?
They send out lists of people caught doing malicious stuff to SEGA, these people may be included the ban wave if SEGA think the info they got from GG warrent it.


Edit:
"No shit that you'll be able to see it's hooked. It's HOW it's hooked that's different. "
If I can see it, so can gameguard. Doesn't matter if you used different code to map it into PSO2 or not.

Anyway, people have been warned now. I'm not gonna answer anymore.

[Ship2Mikeh]

The other issue lies in how blatantly public your tool is, meaning it's 10000x more likely to also be found in person by someone who can do something about it. The thread even illicitly mentions the dll injection. Sega wasn't shy to lurk our forums, what makes you feel so invincible?

[Ship2Mikeh]

Still using a dll to directly affect the client... 133 THOUSAND VIEWS.

[Ship2Mikeh]

Kicking all of us NA kiddies out to go play in our own server when it comes out is most likely, so we stop messing with their game...

[The Walrus]

Implying we're even getting an NA release at this point still

[MetalDude]

They're sure taking their sweet ass time to do such a major action despite the hacking so you don't really have a point.

[Gardios]

Implying we're even getting an NA release at this point still

Ignoring the International release, there are still the SEA regions and we have quite a few players from there.

[Ship2Mikeh]

Anyway, my intention was to make the methods used known, and to put the truth of the risk out, we've now provided evidence that it can be seen, very easily, no matter the difference in your method of launching the translator, it's equally as bad. Continue posting though if you feel like it.

Thanks ^^

[Raven0123]

Alright Ship2Mikeh,

Since you don't know what the definition of hooking is here it is:
Hooking (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hooking) (http://puu.sh/3W8St.png):

In computer programming, the term hooking covers a range of techniques used to alter or augment the behavior of an operating system, of applications, or of other software components by intercepting function calls or messages or events passed between software components. Code that handles such intercepted function calls, events or messages is called a "hook".

The DLL does not intercept function calls, messages or events. We do not hook anything in the software. Since we do not do these things, it is not hooked into the game.