What's your favorite/least favorite 'NEW' game mechanic that PSO2 introduced?

[NintenJon25]

Thread title says it all.

What's your favorite and/or least favorite 'NEW' game mechanic that Phantasy Star Online 2 introduced (free-to-play excluded for obvious reasons)?

For me, my favorite game mechanic introduced thus far is definitely the new Class system. I love being able to seamlessly switch my class on-the-go, and it invites me to try out other classes that I normally wouldn't have had the time to work towards in previous Phantasy Star games---it adds a whole new level of versatility in my eyes.

My least favorite aspect of the game is by far the Tutorial Client Orders as they dragged on for FAR too long, and I was left with an actual headache shortly after binging on Afin and Jean's huge list of Tutorial Orders to get them out of the way as fast as humanly possible to get back to the game. D:

Anyways, feel free to drop a post. Tell us what your favorite and/or least favorite is, or just reply to others if you will.

May the Photons be with you! :D

[Chdata]

I like how they finally let you sign out of your character back to the ship/char select instead of having to log out completely.

[Shirai]

Least favorite mechanic is Code: Collect.

[Zenobia]

Hate the tutorial guide love how I don't have to log on anymore to switch characters.

ALSO RNG..hate it.

[Lumpen Thingy]

some rng not all but some and code collects are fucking annoying

[jooozek]

my least favourite game mechanic is jumping, right after it is the bullshit grinding/affixing of equipment, button-mashing for more power PAs, techniques charging up
my favourite game mechanic would be uh, sending items from inventory directly to storage

[Cyron Tanryoku]

I like how they finally let you sign out of your character back to the ship/char select instead of having to log out completely.
when did this

[Maronji]

my favourite game mechanic would be uh, sending items from inventory directly to storage

Technically speaking, that wasn't introduced with Online 2 (unless we're strictly talking mainline titles on PC/home console, in which case that'd probably be true). That was actually Portable 2 (or Infinity; I honestly forget which) that introduced that feature.

[Lumpen Thingy]

when did this

it was just updated I was very surprised too lol

[AlaskanKactus]

I like how they finally let you sign out of your character back to the ship/char select instead of having to log out completely.

This.
Other than that, I like the subclass system and dislike COs being the primary source of Exp (not including Falz).



when did this

That feature was added in the latest update.

[RVR-87]

Favorite: Weak bullet.

Least favorite: Being knocked down and then repeatedly stabbed to death while you're face down on the floor isn't cool.

[Macman]

Favorite: Katana Combat
Least Favorite: All those useless wand skills.

[NintenJon25]

I like how they finally let you sign out of your character back to the ship/char select instead of having to log out completely.

Didn't even notice that! Was that an addition from the recent update?

Edit: Never mind! Ninja'd to it. lol


Least favorite mechanic is Code: Collect.

UGH! I hate those so much. D:


my least favourite game mechanic is jumping, right after it is the bullshit grinding/affixing of equipment, button-mashing for more power PAs, techniques charging up
my favourite game mechanic would be uh, sending items from inventory directly to storage

I'm surprised! o:

I actually love the new jumping mechanic, but I think it could be worked on to make it a bit more lively and less stiff in animations. The grinding is very odd and hard to get used to if you're a seasoned PSO veteran (it still is hard for me to stomach, personally. :/). Lol'd on the button mashing for PA's! XD

The technique charging up, believe it or not, is nowhere near as bad as it was in Phantasy Star Zero. It still sucks that the techniques themselves now are treated more as PA's, though I guess it gives them more of a sense of versatility and some much needed [so-called] 'balance'. Gotta admit it riled me up when I started out with my Force Newman, even though I was already accustomed to it from PSZ. :P

I flipped when I noticed I could send items from my inventory to storage. Definitely one of the better additions to the game, even though it is from PSP2/i. To add to that a bit, the new Lock (is that new?) feature for your inventory is so essential. I can't tell you how many times I must've accidentally sold one of my best rares in the old PSO days due to my trigger finger acting up at the wrong times. D:


Favorite: Weak bullet.

Least favorite: Being knocked down and then repeatedly stabbed to death while you're face down on the floor isn't cool.

Yeah, I guess that's why some classes have recovery skills for that (talking about taking damage as you're face down to the ground).

However, I just think that it was a poor implementation on SEGA's part in order to create a 'fake' difficulty curve on some bosses and enemies.

For instance, my Human Hunter is Lv. 15 right now. Went up against a Rockbear on Solo, and even though I can survive anything it throws at me because I have 395 HP, it can still manage to punch me into the ground, stomp, and then body slam me. Or, it could even just grab me, chuck me down to the ground, and proceed with a fatal whack to the rib cage.

There are barely any moments of short-termed invincibility unless you learn a skill for it.

And that's at Lv. 15 with almost 400 HP and higher defense than other classes...........seriously, SEGA?

[Cyclon]

The technique charging up, believe it or not, is nowhere near as bad as it was in Phantasy Star Zero.
Apparently that's how it worked as well on PSO2's first alpha, but then people complained, and Sega lowered tech charge time without tweaking the damage. Now I don't know how useful uncharged techs were at this point, but what I can say is that they're pretty sad now. I don't think that was the case in PS0.
That would probably be what I dislike the most by the way. Mandatory charging has made force completely unappealing to me, and so I can't play it.

Favorite feature would be jumping in general. And cancelling. Most people barely use that last one appparently, but I love how technical it potentially makes the game.

[AgemFrostMage]

my least favourite game mechanic is jumping, right after it is the bullshit grinding/affixing of equipment, button-mashing for more power PAs, techniques charging up
my favourite game mechanic would be uh, sending items from inventory directly to storage

Why don't you like jumping? It actually makes mirage step a viable defense can circumvent the half second of being a stuck target.

Agreed on button mashing, that and conveyor belts are why I don't run the Lilipa TA anymore.

[BIG OLAF]

Favorite- Changing clothes on the fly.

Least Favorite- SEGA's entire flinch system. Level 1 monsters shouldn't hit you for 1 damage and flinch/knock you down when you're level 60, just to name one example.

[jooozek]

why do i not like it? because this game aint a platformer, could use that jump button for something else, like, i dont know, maybe splitting up PAs into separate buttons?

[AgemFrostMage]

Apparently that's how it worked as well on PSO2's first alpha, but then people complained, and Sega lowered tech charge time without tweaking the damage. Now I don't know how useful uncharged techs were at this point, but what I can say is that they're pretty sad now. I don't think that was the case in PS0.
That would probably be what I dislike the most by the way. Mandatory charging has made force completely unappealing to me, and so I can't play it.

Favorite feature would be jumping in general. And cancelling. Most people barely use that last one appparently, but I love how technical it potentially makes the game.

I have way more fun on my fighter/hunter CAST than my human force/techer. Charging is too committal and ice used to dodge instantly after cast, now it seems they nerfed it to other elements -_- Sabarta and Nabarta are just useless and only Gibarta and Rabarta have any real use.

Speaking of ice... needing to sink into useless actives (always have cooldowns longer than its activity of course -_- ) just for the masteries.

Another mechanic I don't like is waiting for the monster to finally attack or end so I can zondeel so they can be sucked in during their between attack moments. Also how enemies can't be Razaned during an attack. If an al ahda does its heymaker telegraph or gorongo during spin razan doesn't knock down and cancel =(

[AgemFrostMage]

why do i not like it? because this game aint a platformer, could use that jump button for something else, like, i dont know, maybe splitting up PAs into separate buttons?

We have LT and Y, what more do we need? Left and right also sets to technique and can still move while doing it. Jumping also adds depth to strategy so can obtain vantage points and have momentary safety to heal and circumvent mirage step half second vulnerability and speed rain's stupid immobile dance at the end. Also can attack flying creatures, can't safoie an aginis or zondeel a dagacha if you can't jump.

I think adding platforming is great in some cases. Can even add potential for some bonus puzzles with rare bosses at the end.

[jooozek]

i said PAs, not techniques, techniques don't require attacking to get to a PA in the combo slots

[Punisher106]

my least favourite game mechanic is jumping


why do i not like it? because this game aint a platformer, could use that jump button for something else, like, i dont know, maybe splitting up PAs into separate buttons?


i said PAs, not techniques, techniques don't require attacking to get to a PA in the combo slots

Painfully obvious troll is painfully obvious.

The Jumping, along with MPAs and E-trials, are mechanics I openly welcome. But on the same note, some of the E-trials are rather undesirable, such as fossil/egg/Hilda's cocaine Rare Mineral ones, along with any type of Capture E-trials. The keys are not too bad, at least in the caves, since it guarantees a Fodoran spawn, along with tons of Diggs and Sil Dinians, which is great for those painful COs.

[jooozek]

so i'm a troll because my opinion differs from yours? pso-w logic in action

[AgemFrostMage]

Painfully obvious troll is painfully obvious.

The Jumping, along with MPAs and E-trials, are mechanics I openly welcome. But on the same note, some of the E-trials are rather undesirable, such as fossil/egg/Hilda's cocaine Rare Mineral ones, along with any type of Capture E-trials. The keys are not too bad, at least in the caves, since it guarantees a Fodoran spawn, along with tons of Diggs and Sil Dinians, which is great for those painful COs.


I don't like the unlock gate e-trials =( I also hate any e-trial that has a countdown like the Lilipan one or emergency code escort. Well, anything with a squishy NPC that makes techer or force look like a boss. Only thing I don't like about collection is to render you need to be on top of it, but usually view is behind you because monsters like behind attacks and spawning behind you anyway.

I don't like the machines, especially with the spawn rates.

Plan: Kill monsters, focus on machines/boss. Problem: they keep spawning can't reduce numbers to achieve plan! =( Solution: Freeze them, focus on issue. Alternative: ignore quest, just focus on non-boss enemies for experience and maybe some rares. Like in BB quest when tranmiser spawns let it live to get machine CO done, then finish him. I miss that crazy BB quest =(

[CloudChaser]

so i'm a troll because my opinion differs from yours? pso-w logic in action

True that.

[Zyrusticae]

Least favorite mechanic is Code: Collect.
THIS. NO ONE BOTHERS. NO ONE CARES. Just get rid of it, already!

Code: Capture is a close second. If it had a chance of giving you a 10* as a reward it'd actually be worth doing... but it doesn't, so it's not.

As for favorite game mechanic, I'm going to go with... um... damn, there's a lot that I really like, but I'll have to go with Katana Combat. There's just nothing quite as satisfying as drawing your blade a few times, sheathing it, and watching everything around you just keel over dead.

Damn, I love doing that.

[gigawuts]

I like blowing up the big red bird thingies.

[Z-0]

Painfully obvious troll is painfully obvious.
I would totally have jumping removed if it meant we'd get an extra button so we didn't have to bother with the terrible "PA combo" system.

I can totally see what he's getting at. I'm not a big fan of jumping either.

[gigawuts]

Jumping really felt like something they added purely to keep up with the competition. It doesn't really feel like it adds anything, and it even feels like it worsens things at some points. Stuff like HAVING to jump to hit some targets as a melee class becomes less fun and more of a chore as the game goes on. You jump to catch a wyndera because it flew above you -> it flies above you again -> it is now 30 feet in the air, have fun being useless

[Cyclon]

I would totally have jumping removed if it meant we'd get an extra button so we didn't have to bother with the terrible "PA combo" system.This system IS bad, but I don't think it's a bad idea in itself(for people fine with using a single PA per weapon I'm sure it is though).
People have already said it, we need a reason to have different PAs on our subpalette, AND a progressive damage boost as one goes through the three-steps combo, because the former on its own wouldn't change much with so many ways to JA your first PA repeatedly in the game.

Sadly, and that's beyond me, people are satisfied with using only one or two of nine PAs 95% of the time. So that's not happening and both you guys and I will stay sad.

[Sayara]

Jump PLATFORMING is the worst ever. AMaduscia TA's jump section is awful to do because of how clunky the jump control is. Also the bit in chapter 5-6 ? Same problem. I'll pass on that.

But really
worst new addition: Monica.

I dontcare if my grinds fail, or if you affix 0/4 of my stuff. Having Dudu's sorta panvoice is SO MUCH BETTER than hearing Ayana Taketatsu whine like a dumb little snot.


Best addition: PA comboing. PSU added that awesome mechanic of having a special attack animation with your usual attacks.. being able to combo that stuff is amazing.
(ie: Rising Edge + Cruel Throw, another bullet + that charge shot etc)

[gigawuts]

Yeah, that's nice, but you still have to pick an order and if you want to use one PA repeatedly you need a whole palette with just that PA. Imagine PAs on a PSO1 style palette where you can pick whatever move you want at whatever point in the combo, which you could customize on a per-weapon basis (so your sword has these moves in these spots, your gunslash has these other moves, etc.)

Mmmm.

This is the real reason I want source game style scripting and binding, I'd bind my weapon swap keys to rebind all my buttons to different PAs and automatically swap out my subpalette's options (so I'd only have katana combat on my subpalette if I was holding my katana, then if I swapped to my bow that spot would change into rapid shooting).

[AgemFrostMage]

Jump PLATFORMING is the worst ever. AMaduscia TA's jump section is awful to do because of how clunky the jump control is. Also the bit in chapter 5-6 ? Same problem. I'll pass on that.

But really
worst new addition: Monica.

I dontcare if my grinds fail, or if you affix 0/4 of my stuff. Having Dudu's sorta panvoice is SO MUCH BETTER than hearing Ayana Taketatsu whine like a dumb little snot.


Best addition: PA comboing. PSU added that awesome mechanic of having a special attack animation with your usual attacks.. being able to combo that stuff is amazing.
(ie: Rising Edge + Cruel Throw, another bullet + that charge shot etc)

I already addressed what jumping adds:

1.Can cancel speed rain root at the end

2.Syncs well with mirage step since you land, jump, then mirage step again instead of be a sitting duck for half a second.

3.Adds fun depth to gameplay, especially by strategically positioning above enemies.

4.Jump doesn't feel clunky with a controller. Game doesn't really work with mouse except when sitting on the gattling guns, or maybe targeting from a distance. Even then it syncs with controller. I'm lefty so no problem moving since left stick is move and can target with mouse (right hand) when needed (mostly targeting zeshrayda parts with namegid) =)

Righty may have more trouble though since controller needs more IRL dexterity for the stick. Mouse is 5000 DPI Razer Naga so can target fast too.

[AgemFrostMage]

This system IS bad, but I don't think it's a bad idea in itself(for people fine with using a single PA per weapon I'm sure it is though).
People have already said it, we need a reason to have different PAs on our subpalette, AND a progressive damage boost as one goes through the three-steps combo, because the former on its own wouldn't change much with so many ways to JA your first PA repeatedly in the game.

Sadly, and that's beyond me, people are satisfied with using only one or two of nine PAs 95% of the time. So that's not happening and both you guys and I will stay sad.

Why is it sad? Slash rave + addition bullet sync really well, but with other weapons it's hard finding a sync. Maybe tornado dance and that other double saber PA sync well too, but speed rain, bloody sarabande, and orchestra do well on their own.

[Cyclon]

Yeah, that's nice, but you still have to pick an order and if you want to use one PA repeatedly you need a whole palette with just that PA.
Yup, you'd have to pick an order. And I like coming up with my own combos so I'm okay with that. But I'm gimping myself doing it(and I do it anyway). That shouldn't be the case. That would be more of a compensation bonus, if you will. For anybody else, nothing would change, except that the simplest approach(aka one single PA three times on every subpalette)wouldn't necessarily be the best at all times.

Ahah yeah, that is SO not happening.

Imagine PAs on a PSO1 style palette where you can pick whatever move you want at whatever point in the combo, which you could customize on a per-weapon basis (so your sword has these moves in these spots, your gunslash has these other moves, etc.)

Mmmm.

This is the real reason I want source game style scripting and binding, I'd bind my weapon swap keys to rebind all my buttons to different PAs and automatically swap out my subpalette's options (so I'd only have katana combat on my subpalette if I was holding my katana, then if I swapped to my bow that spot would change into rapid shooting).My gamecube controller just told me it's against that idea kind sir.
But yeah, I guess that'd be pretty nice.
EDIT:

Why is it sad? Slash rave + addition bullet sync really well, but with other weapons it's hard finding a sync. Maybe tornado dance and that other double saber PA sync well too, but speed rain, bloody sarabande, and orchestra do well on their own.I find it sad because I believe it makes the game less interesting, but since I'm of the minority my wish willl never reach Sega and thus they will never change it.
Also except for partisans I find it quite easy to come up with PA combos with any weapon. Damage is another problem, also known as terrible balancing. Yes some PAs are way better than others. In my humble opinion, that shouldn't be the case.

[electrolytes]

Yeah, that's nice, but you still have to pick an order and if you want to use one PA repeatedly you need a whole palette with just that PA. Imagine PAs on a PSO1 style palette where you can pick whatever move you want at whatever point in the combo, which you could customize on a per-weapon basis (so your sword has these moves in these spots, your gunslash has these other moves, etc.)

Mmmm.

This is the real reason I want source game style scripting and binding, I'd bind my weapon swap keys to rebind all my buttons to different PAs and automatically swap out my subpalette's options (so I'd only have katana combat on my subpalette if I was holding my katana, then if I swapped to my bow that spot would change into rapid shooting).
Yeah, it'd be nice to set some or all of the subpalette to be conditional on the weapon and/or the current combo (allowing PAs in the subpallete like techniques of course). On a more-likely-to-happen note, I really hope they eventually expand the weapon palette to 10 slots instead of 6, as it's really hard to get in everything I want between subclass weapons and new PAs.
-----
As for a mechanic I like, I'm going to join the pro-jumping team. Sports, fighting, and many other activities rather naturally feel better to me in three dimensions, so I was pretty excited when I first joined the game and found I wasn't glued to the ground anymore. In terms of gameplay, it's hard to imagine so many things without it - aerial vs. ground JA/PA behavior; enemy strategies (Falz Arms, Kartargot, Ragne, etc); climbing on and jumping over enemies; class usages (gunner, twin dagger, launcher, etc); avoiding low-hitting attacks; skipping lava ticks; dashing; and so forth.

The problems with melee classes hitting things in the air might be better resolved with better enemy or jumping mechanics, rather than not having jumping in the first place. There's also the caveat that melee classes will generally have more difficulty hitting things in the air across games, though that can't excuse everything.

[strikerhunter]

Used to be Favorite: EQs. (most EQs are now useless since we are able to choose which one we want now)

Favorite: GU shift roll. nuff said.

Hated: Grinding with Monica (not dudu),

[AgemFrostMage]

Used to be Favorite: EQs. (most EQs are now useless since we are able to choose which one we want now)

Favorite: GU shift roll. nuff said.

Hated: Grinding with Monica (not dudu),

I like Monica but think the game has enough cute girls as it is. Dudu adds to the game greatly like a guy you love to hate whereas Monica makes you want to hug her if you fail and say, "It's okay".

[gigawuts]

If by "a guy you love to hate" you mean "sega's comedic scapegoat that players direct their hate towards instead of the people actually calling the shots."

[strikerhunter]

I like Monica but think the game has enough cute girls as it is. Dudu adds to the game greatly like a guy you love to hate whereas Monica makes you want to hug her if you fail and say, "It's okay".

In my view (grinding-temper-wise):
Dudu is more like someone you want to have revenge on and when you get that revenge it feels sweet.

Monica acts innocently with that voice of hers (I hate it) as if it wasn't her fault when it is. So it gets practically annoying trying to get revenge.

[Shinmarizu]

I like Monica but think the game has enough cute girls as it is. Dudu adds to the game greatly like a guy you love to hate whereas Monica makes you want to hug her if you fail and say, "It's okay".

aka not wring her neck. because that would be wrong. innocent little girl.

...See, with Dudu you could shake your fist, and you can imagine him smirking and saying, "You'll be back. See you soon. I know it."

Monica? You return with another fistful of grinders and meseta, and all you do is make her cry. Like you're the one doing the bullying. I'm surprised she's not hiding under the counter and only peeking out to apologize when the RNG fails. I mean, how old is she? 9?

...ahem. Back on topic. New stuff I like? Wopal in general. Gunner, Techer and Fighter have some new buffs. Braver is fun. (I like new stuff.)

Don't like? Now Gunner and daggers are a bit over-tweaked. (Balance? Sega only cares about one balance; the one in their bank.) The fact that shark dogs got neutered HARD. (They were a threat and they required my attention. Now they're an afterthought.)

[Sayara]

I don't have a problem with jumping. Its when you have to platform awkwardly with the jump mechanics is where i have my gripes.

Jumping lets me as a Nazonde user fly 20 feet in the air if i jump and cast just right and thats awesome.

Having to jump on 2 x 2 blocks to get to a single button is not enjoyable. Not at all :|
hated that shit in 3D mario games, hate it here.

[Laga]

its probably already said.... but I like that now I can go back to ship selection instead of having to go all the way to the start screen to switch between ships and characters.

[Cyron Tanryoku]

Fuck all of you I like to jump when I attack

[NintenJon25]

Favorite- Changing clothes on the fly.

Least Favorite- SEGA's entire flinch system. Level 1 monsters shouldn't hit you for 1 damage and flinch/knock you down when you're level 60, just to name one example.

I LOVE how easy it is to change clothes now! :D

And, yeah, agreed with your flinch system. Thank God for dodge manuevers, though. Without those, this game would be absolutely atrocious with being knocked around by enemies like a silly ragdoll.

PSO-mechanics are still stuck in my head, so when I see myself brutally knocked down by an enemy that only did 30 dmg, it just defies the laws of PSO physics to me. :(


Apparently that's how it worked as well on PSO2's first alpha, but then people complained, and Sega lowered tech charge time without tweaking the damage. Now I don't know how useful uncharged techs were at this point, but what I can say is that they're pretty sad now. I don't think that was the case in PS0.
That would probably be what I dislike the most by the way. Mandatory charging has made force completely unappealing to me, and so I can't play it.

Favorite feature would be jumping in general. And cancelling. Most people barely use that last one appparently, but I love how technical it potentially makes the game.

People had reason to complain there, probably. Forces were pretty darn OP in PSOBB, and the Beta of this game had some major issues with balancing when it came to their tech animations and how fast they could cast their techniques. It made playing as a Hunter or Ranger seem completely useless...

However, I think they nerfed it too much. That's something they can always fix, but the fact of the matter is that it does take a little too long to charge techniques now.

While it does add an element of strategy, that element doesn't help when later enemies move at blazing fast speeds and could easily maul you down.

Forces may be support characters, but they also need to be able to stand their own ground too. :c


We have LT and Y, what more do we need? Left and right also sets to technique and can still move while doing it. Jumping also adds depth to strategy so can obtain vantage points and have momentary safety to heal and circumvent mirage step half second vulnerability and speed rain's stupid immobile dance at the end. Also can attack flying creatures, can't safoie an aginis or zondeel a dagacha if you can't jump.

I think adding platforming is great in some cases. Can even add potential for some bonus puzzles with rare bosses at the end.

Agreed. I love the platforming mechanics. As said, it makes PSO2 feel far more versatile, which is the main thing the game was aiming for in the first place.

I really haven't ever felt anything like it in an Online RPG. :)

The only complaint I have is the jumping animation, which feels a bit too stiff.


I don't have a problem with jumping. Its when you have to platform awkwardly with the jump mechanics is where i have my gripes.

Jumping lets me as a Nazonde user fly 20 feet in the air if i jump and cast just right and thats awesome.

Having to jump on 2 x 2 blocks to get to a single button is not enjoyable. Not at all :|
hated that shit in 3D mario games, hate it here.

You find jumping hard in 3D Mario games? I found it pretty easy to do. It may be an issue with your depth perception, rather than just pure distaste for jumping...

I think it's reasons like that that you don't see jumping in Zelda games yet other than automatic jumping. Bummer. :/


its probably already said.... but I like that now I can go back to ship selection instead of having to go all the way to the start screen to switch between ships and characters.

Yeah, a couple peeps beat you to it, but I just noticed it today too! :D

Awesome! It'll be much easier to switch between characters now. :3


Fuck all of you I like to jump when I attack

Definitely helps with those mid-air foes and targeting enemy weakspots on the bigger enemies like Rockbears for instance.

I honestly could never go back to PSO after experiencing PSO2's jumping mechanics. It just wouldn't feel the same for me because I feel the jumping in PSO2 has helped mitigate a lot of issues with all of the classes when it comes to targeting enemies.

[Sayara]

Im going on the whim to blame depth perception for my mario game issues.
bit those games have very solid control of the jumps (unless you're Luigi)

[gigawuts]

the slippery running is to blame for this game's bad platforming, as it is in many games

[NintenJon25]

Im going on the whim to blame depth perception for my mario game issues.

Yup! Figured so. :D

I'm guessing you loved the 2D Mario games far more by comparison too, right?

It's an issue Nintendo has with their games nowadays. Now, it's like they're caught in-between trying to appease both 2D and 3D audiences, and in a way it's hurting their image majorly because it looks like they're just shoveling out a new Mario and Zelda game every year now and forgot about their main franchises.

That's what this type of division causes. Happens to most popular game franchises out there.

Sonic, Phantasy Star, Metroid, Super Smash Bros., even Bayonetta now that's it coming to the Wii U (still bummed about that, but I might pick up a Wii U later this year anyways because Sonic: Lost World is coming out, and I just...can't...resist...Sonic).

[deahamlet]

Jump PLATFORMING is the worst ever. AMaduscia TA's jump section is awful to do because of how clunky the jump control is. Also the bit in chapter 5-6 ? Same problem. I'll pass on that.

But really
worst new addition: Monica.

I dontcare if my grinds fail, or if you affix 0/4 of my stuff. Having Dudu's sorta panvoice is SO MUCH BETTER than hearing Ayana Taketatsu whine like a dumb little snot.


Best addition: PA comboing. PSU added that awesome mechanic of having a special attack animation with your usual attacks.. being able to combo that stuff is amazing.
(ie: Rising Edge + Cruel Throw, another bullet + that charge shot etc)

Oh my god, Monica is the worst! And following her are all the code collects.

Best addition: Big Vardha. There's something so fun about climbing a boss machinery and destroying bits and pieces of him. Other one would be Bullet Bows. Some of the PAs are just so much fun on bosses.


I don't have a problem with jumping. Its when you have to platform awkwardly with the jump mechanics is where i have my gripes.

Jumping lets me as a Nazonde user fly 20 feet in the air if i jump and cast just right and thats awesome.

Having to jump on 2 x 2 blocks to get to a single button is not enjoyable. Not at all :|
hated that shit in 3D mario games, hate it here.

I totally forgot that part of the Time Attacks. I hate that bit. I love jumping in this game except for that nonsense. It's my least favourite TACO for that reason alone (followed by Lilipa. F-you Lilipa!).

[Cyclon]

Forces were pretty darn OP in PSOBB
I think they nerfed it too much (...) it does take a little too long to charge techniques now.
Forces may be support characters, but they also need to be able to stand their own ground too. :c
Yeah...




...excuse me WHAT?

Sorry, I had to. You got it backward. Charging techs has only been a thing since PS0, and people complained that it was too slow in PSO2's alpha. So they actually made it faster, not slower. What I'm saying is that it's too fast now, making uncharged technics completely useless in comparison.
Of course tweaking the damage would also fix that without having to nerf the charge time.

[AgemFrostMage]

I thought they die too fast for using the tree I have with element weak hit and icing them =) Anyway they needed to be tweaked they took too long to die before, especially since they summon new ones and hit too hard as it is. What part of fully grinded 10 star units doesn't the game understand or are Vardha units too low S-DEF for level 50?

[AgemFrostMage]

Yeah...




...excuse me WHAT?

Sorry, I had to. You got it backward. Charging techs has only been a thing since PS0, and people complained that it was too slow in PSO2's alpha. So they actually made it faster, not slower. What I'm saying is that it's too fast now, making uncharged technics completely useless in comparison.
Of course tweaking the damage would also fix that without having to nerf the charge time.

Too fast?! You must be joking. Okay, you are Namegiding Org Blan's tail, but he effortlessly walks up to you, now what? Can't outrun anything when charging and some techniques take way too long to charge. Uncharged techs do too little damage while still draining PP. You hit something for 300 damage... but it has 9000 HP, now what?

[gigawuts]

you used the slowest charging tech in the game as an example why every other tech, which charges in a fraction of the time, doesn't charge too slow?

i don't even

but what?

[AgemFrostMage]

you used the slowest charging tech in the game as an example why every other tech, which charges in a fraction of the time, doesn't charge too slow?

i don't even

but what?

No, Sabarta takes too long, but that is second longest. Wind techs don't take too long, I think wind and fire after talents are perfect. Lightning and especially holy take a tad too long. For Namegid I meant movement speed not charge. Charging movement speed is way too slow enemies have the option to close the gap and hit you, and you need talent points to recover the loss somewhat.

[Emmie]

Hm...I'd say my favorite addition to PSO2 would be the random fields and random monster spawning and respawning. I always hated how in the previous games (and other action mmos like Vindictus) there would only be 2 or 3 map variations and the same monsters would spawn in the same locations every time. Randomizing things keeps things fresher longer.

Least favorite? That would be CHANGE OVER CODE: CAPTURE. When I'm in a full group clobbering away at a boss, the last thing I want to do is stop what I am doing, drag it over to the capture point, and get it to sit still long enough to capture it. I don't mind capturing the boss, as long it is something you have to do from the start. I just don't like being interrupted and being told to switch gears like that.

[Rosel]

Least favorite thing is just the emergency code/randomized map BS as opposed to actually pre-constructed, pre-thought out/organized stages.

favorite thing is the class system as well.

Someone else mentioned Code:Collect as the worst, but I just think the entire code system is just boring and un-fun. I can't think of a single fun code besides the boss spawn pops.

[gigawuts]

No, Sabarta takes too long, but that is second longest. Wind techs don't take too long, I think wind and fire after talents are perfect. Lightning and especially holy take a tad too long. For Namegid I meant movement speed not charge. Charging movement speed is way too slow enemies have the option to close the gap and hit you, and you need talent points to recover the loss somewhat.

Sabarta takes too long because it's fucking atrocious, put that charge time on grants with identical DPS, meaning more damage for a single casting, and you'll be on to something that's just fine. The only thing in question is what should be done about PP recovered while casting - a simple penalty to recharge rate while casting would leave it at where it is now.

And this is being said by someone who spent quite a while playing with a pure light spec. It would, of course, be a change that would be applied to other techs as well.

But this would just be a change in the initial casting. Not much else would change, forces would still be faceroll AOE kings, etc.

[Magus_84]

Least favorite thing is just the emergency code/randomized map BS as opposed to actually pre-constructed, pre-thought out/organized stages.



If that changed, people would be complaining that there was never any variety and all the maps were entirely the same.

Anyway.

I can see why melee hate the ability to jump, but I love it on Fo/Ra/Gu/Te.

Favorite new thing: Subclasses, the split of Ranged Attack and melee attack damage (so hunters aren't the best at pure ranged damage anymore, in theory)

Leave favorite new thing: Low subclass exp gain when subbed, all of the stances for ranged/casting damage being located on melee classes (this invalidates the split between Ranged/Melee damage, since you'll just take Fury Stance anyway)

[Rosel]

If that changed, people would be complaining that there was never any variety and all the maps were entirely the same.

Anyway.

I can see why melee hate the ability to jump, but I love it on Fo/Ra/Gu/Te.

Favorite new thing: Subclasses, the split of Ranged Attack and melee attack damage (so hunters aren't the best at pure ranged damage anymore, in theory)

Leave favorite new thing: Low subclass exp gain when subbed, all of the stances for ranged/casting damage being located on melee classes (this invalidates the split between Ranged/Melee damage, since you'll just take Fury Stance anyway)

... eh. Not really. I mean, it's not like the randomized maps provide some fun variety. It's just randomly stupid and annoying and boring.

[Ryock]

Least favorite: Jumping
Most favorite: More customization

[Magus_84]

... eh. Not really. I mean, it's not like the randomized maps provide some fun variety. It's just randomly stupid and annoying and boring.

So you'd rather have maps be like PSO quests? Where it's the same enemy layouts and the same map all the time?

Or like PSO non-quest levels, where it's randomized among a set few maps, but the enemy layout's the same every time?

I'm biased, because I like the stuff like the random boss spawns, but I'm trying to figure out what your ideal better option would be.

[gigawuts]

So you'd rather have maps be like PSO quests? Where it's the same enemy layouts and the same map all the time?

Or like PSO non-quest levels, where it's randomized among a set few maps, but the enemy layout's the same every time?

I'm biased, because I like the stuff like the random boss spawns, but I'm trying to figure out what your ideal better option would be.

I'd prefer it if it meant more complex designs and larger maps.

But if it's just the same stuff we have now in the same scales, like say the beach EQ, then god no.

[Xaeris]

I'm surprised jumping is getting this much hate. Personally, I love it. As for my most favorite mechanic tweak, there's a whole bunch of things that appear on the list. Really, PSO2 is improved in a whole bunch of ways over its predecessors, even if it suffers from some flaws. However, there's one thing that sticks out at the top of the list with absolutely zero competition in my eyes.

NO MORE MISSING. Not getting fucked over by the RNG which decided a crucial part of your combo should fail, allowing the enemy to gangbang you has enhanced my enjoyment of the series tenfold. If I had to go back and play Blue Burst, I don't know how long I'd last into Ultimate while trying to get my ATA to a respectable level.

As for my least favorite, I'd say charging techniques. In of itself, it's not that bad, but the way it's done leaves barely a sliver of niche applications for uncharged techs.

[Magus_84]

I'd prefer it if it meant more complex designs and larger maps.

But if it's just the same stuff we have now in the same scales, like say the beach EQ, then god no.

That would be awesome, but...Sega.

The "level will be a random collection of different spawns" thing it's currently at now is better IMO than something like the old-school PSO map setup.

Also, I really don't get the hate on jumping. Compare it to something like GW2, where the jumping mechanics are both a thousand times worse and required for certain content.

Is it just a melee thing with flyers that go out of your range? That's not jumping's fault, that's Sega not doing a proper height limit on the things.

And this. A thousand times this:



NO MORE MISSING. Not getting fucked over by the RNG which decided a crucial part of your combo should fail, allowing the enemy to gangbang you has enhanced my enjoyment of the series tenfold. If I had to go back and play Blue Burst, I don't know how long I'd last into Ultimate while trying to get my ATA to a respectable level.



It's cost us a lot of Fomar jokes, but in the end, it's a perfectly acceptable tradeoff.

[Rosel]

What I mean is a few premade, memorable, intelligently designed and reasonably complex map layouts versus the randomized junk which can be from a waffle to a straight line and the areas feel totally forgettable.

[Rosel]

Anyway, it's just meaningless to talk about. PSO2 is what it is, lol.

[Gardios]

Also, I really don't get the hate on jumping. Compare it to something like GW2, where the jumping mechanics are both a thousand times worse and required for certain content.

You mean Jumping Puzzles? The puzzles where the core mechanic is... jumping?

[gigawuts]

NO MORE MISSING. Not getting fucked over by the RNG which decided a crucial part of your combo should fail, allowing the enemy to gangbang you has enhanced my enjoyment of the series tenfold. If I had to go back and play Blue Burst, I don't know how long I'd last into Ultimate while trying to get my ATA to a respectable level.

Yes! This is a big one. Removing missing was a great thing to do.

[MetalDude]

The problem with RNG maps is that they all turn into a boring slurry of same-y maps whose only real benefits are what codes can happen. There's this perpetuating feeling throughout the entire game of "Didn't I just do this but with slightly different enemies and different wallpaper and music?". Absolutely nothing feels unique, exciting, interesting, or well-designed. And for hunting purposes it's horribly discouraging. It is honestly one of the cruxes of PSO2's problems alongside the weapon upgrading system and pretty much any form of combat that requires getting into the air.

[Magus_84]

You mean Jumping Puzzles? The puzzles where the core mechanic is... jumping?

Moreso Fractals. Specifically Cliffside and Uncategorized. I'm bad enough at jumping that I don't even do those with non-guild groups, as I slow down the group too much.

I'd like jumping puzzles a lot more if the jumping mechanics were more like PSO2's, but I usually avoid the puzzles themselves unless they're required (like with the kites).

Those cases are why I made a lot of Mesmer friends.

[strikerhunter]

The problem with RNG maps is that they all turn into a boring slurry of same-y maps whose only real benefits are what codes can happen. There's this perpetuating feeling throughout the entire game of "Didn't I just do this but with slightly different enemies and different wallpaper and music?". Absolutely nothing feels unique, exciting, interesting, or well-designed. And for hunting purposes it's horribly discouraging. It is honestly one of the cruxes of PSO2's problems alongside the weapon upgrading system and pretty much any form of combat that requires getting into the air.

This issue was mentioned back in another thread last month about the Maps being either too big or too small with nothing special about it.

Some of the posters (including me) suggested adding multiple special features for each map type and MPA.

Seriously, with the exception of Ruins, Sanctum, and Beach, all the MPAs feels just like a re-skin of the other one. What they need is something that defines the MPA/MAP rather than just scenery and texture difference.

Example: Desert/volcano--->Heatwave effect that hurts the player(s) or something along the line.

[HIT0SHI]

Favorite:
>Dashing (technically it was on PSP2i 1st i think)
>Jumping
>No more missing
>Can transfer items from your inventory to your storage
>Can set multiple PAs on a weapon
>Photon Chair jumping
>Armor grinding (I think is new)
>Weapons don't break on a failed grind like in PSU (0/10 -> 1/10 -> 2/10 -> 0/9 -> 1/9)
>Ability to double jump as a Gunner using TMG's PA Aerial Shooting

Dislikes:
>T.A.C.O.s being the only way to make meseta for non-premium users
>Horrendous RNG weapon drop rates for 10* weapons and sometimes some specific armor

Annnnnnnnnd that's it, all the other negatives that are i have with the game are not really NEW game mechanics so they don't count... :-?

[NintenJon25]

So you'd rather have maps be like PSO quests? Where it's the same enemy layouts and the same map all the time?

Or like PSO non-quest levels, where it's randomized among a set few maps, but the enemy layout's the same every time?

I'm biased, because I like the stuff like the random boss spawns, but I'm trying to figure out what your ideal better option would be.

I like PSO2's maps better too. It's more sporadic and it's always different.

Not to forget to mention, those random boss spawns always have me crapping my pants! XD

My FIRST free-run of Forest on Normal had Cartogot (is that it's name? Idk, it's the giant mecha boss is all I know XD). Fighting him was annoying as hell because of how fast he moves. :/


I'd prefer it if it meant more complex designs and larger maps.

But if it's just the same stuff we have now in the same scales, like say the beach EQ, then god no.

Definitely agree with the larger maps and more complex designs. More interesting puzzles too would be much appreciated. :)

It's weird, though. I was quick to get bored with PSZ's map-generation system, even though it is very similar to PSO2's design.

PSO2 never gets boring when it comes to its overall map layout. The environments are absolutely breathtaking and really come to life with the game's art style. I would enjoy seeing more character interaction with the environments if nothing else. It seems to work in PSO2's favor a LOT!


I'm surprised jumping is getting this much hate. Personally, I love it. As for my most favorite mechanic tweak, there's a whole bunch of things that appear on the list. Really, PSO2 is improved in a whole bunch of ways over its predecessors, even if it suffers from some flaws. However, there's one thing that sticks out at the top of the list with absolutely zero competition in my eyes.

NO MORE MISSING. Not getting fucked over by the RNG which decided a crucial part of your combo should fail, allowing the enemy to gangbang you has enhanced my enjoyment of the series tenfold. If I had to go back and play Blue Burst, I don't know how long I'd last into Ultimate while trying to get my ATA to a respectable level.

As for my least favorite, I'd say charging techniques. In of itself, it's not that bad, but the way it's done leaves barely a sliver of niche applications for uncharged techs.

I never understood the concept of 'Hit' and 'Miss' back in the old PSO days.

The enemy is right-the-*#$% in front of you as you swing your blade...how the hell do you miss that? XD

I'm glad it's now based on how good you are at aiming.

Also, I just used the Ranger class for the first time today, and I gotta say hitting those weakspots is so much fun! :D


That would be awesome, but...Sega.

The "level will be a random collection of different spawns" thing it's currently at now is better IMO than something like the old-school PSO map setup.

Also, I really don't get the hate on jumping. Compare it to something like GW2, where the jumping mechanics are both a thousand times worse and required for certain content.

Is it just a melee thing with flyers that go out of your range? That's not jumping's fault, that's Sega not doing a proper height limit on the things.

And this. A thousand times this:



It's cost us a lot of Fomar jokes, but in the end, it's a perfectly acceptable tradeoff.

Yeah, I'm glad we're not seeing a return of the old PSO-level designs.

Phantasy Star, from the very beginnings, was always about those surprise encounters you'd make on your adventures, which Phantasy Star Online 2 perfectly embodies. Compared to previous online installments, at least. :)


Anyway, it's just meaningless to talk about. PSO2 is what it is, lol.

Yup! :D


Yes! This is a big one. Removing missing was a great thing to do.


Favorite:
>Dashing (technically it was on PSP2i 1st i think)
>Jumping
>No more missing
>Can transfer items from your inventory to your storage
>Can set multiple PAs on a weapon
>Photon Chair jumping
>Armor grinding (I think is new)
>Weapons don't break on a failed grind like in PSU (0/10 -> 1/10 -> 2/10 -> 0/9 -> 1/9)
>Ability to double jump as a Gunner using TMG's PA Aerial Shooting

Dislikes:
>T.A.C.O.s being the only way to make meseta for non-premium users
>Horrendous RNG weapon drop rates for 10* weapons and sometimes some specific armor

Annnnnnnnnd that's it, all the other negatives that are i have with the game are not really NEW game mechanics so they don't count... :-?

Nice list! :D

[strikerhunter]

My FIRST free-run of Forest on Normal had Cartogot (is that it's name? Idk, it's the giant mecha boss is all I know XD). Fighting him was annoying as hell because of how fast he moves. :/


Cougar NX is the only mech boss that can appear in any map and judging by your description of him being annoying fast, I think it's Cougar NX.

Kartogot is a darker monster that's slow and shoots lazers.


-back to the topic or current discussion-

Generally I like the maps, but I just hate it when there are ridiculously small/large maps in the most unwanted time.
Edit: Outside of the special features/designs in Ruins, Sanctum, City, and Beach, there is nothing else I like about the maps.

[MetalDude]

I'm going to guess NintenJon is really new to the game because that's the impression everyone gets until they realize it literally almost never changes.

[NintenJon25]

Cougar NX is the only mech boss that can appear in any map and judging by your description of him being annoying fast, I think it's Cougar NX.

Kartogot is a darker monster that's slow and shoots lazers.


-back to the topic or current discussion-

Generally I like the maps, but I just hate it when there are ridiculously small/large maps in the most unwanted time.
Edit: Outside of the special features/designs in Ruins, Sanctum, City, and Beach, there is nothing else I like about the maps.

THERE WE GO! It is Cougar NX, I'll edit it now. XD

Kartogot was the Darker creature with the laser beam, right? Nvm, I just read the rest of your post...and I just feel like leaving this here, anyways. :P

[NintenJon25]

I'm going to guess NintenJon is really new to the game because that's the impression everyone gets until they realize it literally almost never changes.

To be honest, I do notice the sameness of the 'rooms' in the maps (they're more like Zones in PSZ than rooms now), than anything else.

Though, I am still new to PSO2, as you said. I haven't tried out later maps, yet.

However, from past experience of most other Phantasy Star games, I do have to say that PSO2 has the most diversity by map size and random occurrences now.

[strikerhunter]

I'm going to guess NintenJon is really new to the game because that's the impression everyone gets until they realize it literally almost never changes.

I was like that for 3 months. Now I'm just doing things that are fun for me.

[Valimer]

so i'm a troll because my opinion differs from yours? pso-w logic in action

It's not a matter of opinion, jumping is objectively a good thing.

[jooozek]

only on pso-w in opinion-based threads would people call you a troll and try to shove bullshit like "it's objectively a good thing" into your face

[AgemFrostMage]

Sabarta takes too long because it's fucking atrocious, put that charge time on grants with identical DPS, meaning more damage for a single casting, and you'll be on to something that's just fine. The only thing in question is what should be done about PP recovered while casting - a simple penalty to recharge rate while casting would leave it at where it is now.

And this is being said by someone who spent quite a while playing with a pure light spec. It would, of course, be a change that would be applied to other techs as well.

But this would just be a change in the initial casting. Not much else would change, forces would still be faceroll AOE kings, etc.

I say let PP be spent after the tech goes off, not while charging so as to not waste PP and improve charge movement speed, even if it needs a stupid 30 second active with a 60 second cooldown that can only be up about half the time or so, so max would be 1.5x or even double non-combat running speed and get rid of combat speed entirely for all classes, it hamstrings the player too much sometimes.

[Magus_84]

only on pso-w in opinion-based threads would people call you a troll and try to shove bullshit like "it's objectively a good thing" into your face

That's because the reasons you gave are somewhat nonsensical.

"Guys, I want another PA button and I don't like the PA combo system. This is jumping's fault, and can only be remedied by removing jumping!"

That's like me saying "I hate that the only viable subs for everything other than Gunner are locked behind playing melee classes. They should remove melee classes from the game so Techer sub becomes more useful for Force, and Gunner sub becomes better for Ranger."

See the disconnect there?

Anyway, for solutions to the PA thing that don't require removing jumping...there's a very simple one:

They could take the symbol chat shortcut button, fold it into the regular menu, move target switching there, then move interact to where target switching used to be.

Ta-da, new PA button, without removing jumping.

Or they could allow you to set PAs to the shortcut window (like techs), or they could remove the "must be part of a combo" requirement to use PAs. But those don't hinge on just replacing one button, so I like them less.

All of those could be done without removing jumping. Then we're back to "I don't like jumping in PSO 2 because I don't feel this game should be a platformer", which is a far more defensible statement that looks far less like you're trolling.

Bonus: Spamming symbol chat and lobby emotes takes an extra step. Take that, block 20!

[Punisher106]

To be honest, I don't like people bashing on jumping, because it adds a whole new dimension of evadability. Take Ragne's Giygas Danmaku, or even Persona's Sonic Arrows. Jumping works really well. I've kind of wanted jumping for a while, since it adds new options for grander areas. FC is fairly decent, in this perspective, and makes things a bit more non-linear, such as the forest.

[jooozek]

That's because the reasons you gave are somewhat nonsensical.

"Guys, I want another PA button and I don't like the PA combo system. This is jumping's fault, and can only be remedied by removing jumping!"

That's like me saying "I hate that the only viable subs for everything other than Gunner are locked behind playing melee classes. They should remove melee classes from the game so Techer sub becomes more useful for Force, and Gunner sub becomes better for Ranger."

See the disconnect there?

Anyway, for solutions to the PA thing that don't require removing jumping...there's a very simple one:

They could take the symbol chat shortcut button, fold it into the regular menu, move target switching there, then move interact to where target switching used to be.

Ta-da, new PA button, without removing jumping.

Or they could allow you to set PAs to the shortcut window (like techs), or they could remove the "must be part of a combo" requirement to use PAs. But those don't hinge on just replacing one button, so I like them less.

All of those could be done without removing jumping. Then we're back to "I don't like jumping in PSO 2 because I don't feel this game should be a platformer", which is a far more defensible statement that looks far less like you're trolling.

Bonus: Spamming symbol chat and lobby emotes takes an extra step. Take that, block 20!

there is no "symbol art shortcut" button on my gamepad

[Magus_84]

there is no "symbol art shortcut" button on my gamepad

The one with the...uh...

"Select what's displayed over a character's head" and "symbol art" and some other stuff that I'm forgetting.

I'd have to log in, but I'm pretty sure it's set to the "back" button by default on a 360 controller.

I'll look it up when I get home from work (since I still have to patch), assuming someone doesn't beat me to it and make me look stupid.

Also, if it were up to me, I'd put the subpallet use button on a face button, and make the shoulder button that it's set to by default be an additional modifier. So instead of four things per weapon, you'd get six.

[Kondibon]

The one with the...uh...

"Select what's displayed over a character's head" and "symbol art" and some other stuff that I'm forgetting.

I'd have to log in, but I'm pretty sure it's set to the "back" button by default on a 360 controller.

That's the quick menu.


And I'm pretty sure the solution to what you guys are talking about would be native support for toggle buttons that change what other buttons do when you hold it down like ctrl and alt usually do. This is what most people do when using joy-to-key but I don't see why it can't be native.

[jooozek]

see, SEGA couldn't even make gamepad controls properly; where are context-sensitive buttons from PSO? :rolleyes:
you'd think that after PSZ they'd know how to do this shit but apparently nope

[gigawuts]

Jumping is only good for the game because the game was designed in such a way that required jumping. They could very easily design it so kartagots have ramps or don't have platforms at all and weak points are just on their backs, so hitting a rockbear's face is done with manual aiming or target swapping to a higher target instead of jumping, so on and so forth. Jumping actually adds very little, since without it the game would have to be adjusted to function without it, and the net difference wouldn't be very large...

...except jumping to chase wynderas 30 miles into the fucking sky and other similar issues would no longer be a problem, but on the same note they could have just designed that better so it wouldn't require that anyway.

[Kondibon]

Jumping actually adds very little, since without it the game would have to be adjusted to function without it, and the net difference wouldn't be very large...

...except jumping to chase wynderas 30 miles into the fucking sky and other similar issues would no longer be a problem, but on the same note they could have just designed that better so it wouldn't require that anyway.You could say that about any game with jumping that isn't a pure platformer, though I do wish there was more platforming in PSO2.

Also Wynderas had their max altitude lowered. No idea how much of a difference that made though since I haven't fought any after the update went live.

[gigawuts]

Well yes, that's exactly right. You could say that about any game. That's how game development and design works.

Adding jumping and then designing the game around it does not automatically make jumping a good thing. It means the game couldn't function without it because they made sure it couldn't. If jumping was never even on the drawing board the game would have to function just fine without it.

So jumping itself is just another gimmick added to the series. Now, just guard, that's something I like that definitely adds to its class (but that's not a new mechanic here). Being forced to jump to even hit a target which then flies higher than you can jump due to bad AI? No.

[Kondibon]

Being forced to jump to even hit a target which then flies higher than you can jump due to bad AI? No.

Well that's a problem with the enemy not the jumping. They definitely went the gimicky route with it (I find it funny when any modern game puts emphesis on the fact that you can jump), but at least it's an aspect of combat and not just "omg guys look you can jump and there are "jumping puzzels" omg!" and have some weird schism between jumping gameplay and normal gameplay like GW2. ._.

If you REALLY want an example of an action game where jumping was implemented poorly look at the EX version of vindictus.

[Punisher106]

Come to think of it, Now I know why Joozek doesn't like jumping, anyway.

Who the hell plays PSO2 on the PC with a controller?

The keyboard and mouse controls are oriented to be somewhat like a third person shooter, and it seems that's a bit difficult to emulate onto a controller. Well, then.

[Kondibon]

Come to think of it, Now I know why Joozek doesn't like jumping, anyway.

Who the hell plays PSO2 on the PC with a controller?

The keyboard and mouse controls are oriented to be somewhat like a third person shooter, and it seems that's a bit difficult to emulate onto a controller. Well, then.

I've got a couple of fun facts.

Not everyone plays PSO2 in TPS mode all the time.

There exist TPS games for consoles, and thus, console controls for them.

The default setup in PSO2 is terrible for it, but you can have different control schemes for normal and tps modes (I'm pretty sure that's the case with keyboard and mouse too)

[gigawuts]

Well that's a problem with the enemy not the jumping. They definitely went the gimicky route with it (I find it funny when any modern game puts emphesis on the fact that you can jump), but at least it's an aspect of combat and not just "omg guys look you can jump and there are "jumping puzzels" omg!" and have some weird schism between jumping gameplay and normal gameplay like GW2. ._.

If you REALLY want an example of an action game where jumping was implemented poorly look at the EX version of vindictus.

Riiiiiiiight, which I stated in the post you quoted earlier.

The only reason it's even a big deal is it's the first PS game to allow it, which means the series was just fine without it. They've made a point to create enemies you specifically need to jump, swing, swing, swing, swing, swing, jump, swing, swing, swing, jump, swing, swing, swing to kill as melee, while other classes only jump to evade attacks and to get onto some elevated terrain.

The point is that this is precisely what makes jumping a poor mechanic here. Instead of making it a part of ordinary, fluid gameplay, it's just flashy and poorly thought out. It's clearly been added for the sole purpose of being able to go "woah guys, look! you can jump now! look how modern PS is!"

Now, if there was a way to more easily bring high up enemies down, like I don't know if they created a kind of weapon where the blades are maybe on the tips of wires and you go aim them up...

Oh right, those weapons do exist, but 90% of melee's arsenal can only be aimed directly in front of you. The number of moves you can use to hit something that's above you is depressingly small given how some of the weapons would so plainly be able to reach airborne enemies. This is part of why it's a gimmick. They very clearly only added it to A. seem more modern, B. try to seem like they're innovating the series, when the reality is combat is still very much 2 dimensional for the one class that would need it because they can't even most of their attacks aim up (I'm sure there's people just frothing at the mouth, waiting to try to correct me with "but daggers!" and "but air pocket swing!" and "but speed rain!", as though moves that graze at the very edge of their range, moves that are horribly designed and ridiculously difficult to control [nevermind control accurately], or a single weapon type make up for a glaring gap in design such as wired lances only being aimed horizontally).

It's less innovating for the series than something like Just Guard, which lets a close range class go from taking too many hits to controlling when it will block.

[jooozek]

Come to think of it, Now I know why Joozek doesn't like jumping, anyway.

Who the hell plays PSO2 on the PC with a controller?

The keyboard and mouse controls are oriented to be somewhat like a third person shooter, and it seems that's a bit difficult to emulate onto a controller. Well, then.

tell me more about the vita version

[gigawuts]

itt: you can't rebind controls

[Kondibon]

Riiiiiiiight, which I stated in the post you quoted earlier.

The only reason it's even a big deal is it's the first PS game to allow it, which means the series was just fine without it. They've made a point to create enemies you specifically need to jump, swing, swing, swing, swing, swing, jump, swing, swing, swing, jump, swing, swing, swing to kill as melee, while other classes only jump to evade attacks and to get onto some elevated terrain.

The point is that this is precisely what makes jumping a poor mechanic here. Instead of making it a part of ordinary, fluid gameplay, it's just flashy and poorly thought out. It's clearly been added for the sole purpose of being able to go "woah guys, look! you can jump now! look how modern PS is!"

Now, if there was a way to more easily bring high up enemies down, like I don't know if they created a kind of weapon where the blades are maybe on the tips of wires and you go aim them up...

Oh right, those weapons do exist, but 90% of melee's arsenal can only be aimed directly in front of you. The number of moves you can use to hit something that's above you is depressingly small given how some of the weapons would so plainly be able to reach airborne enemies. This is part of why it's a gimmick. They very clearly only added it to A. seem more modern, B. try to seem like they're innovating the series, when the reality is combat is still very much 2 dimensional for the one class that would need it because they can't even most of their attacks aim up (I'm sure there's people just frothing at the mouth, waiting to try to correct me with "but daggers!" and "but air pocket swing!" and "but speed rain!", as though moves that graze at the very edge of their range, moves that are horribly designed and ridiculously difficult to control [nevermind control accurately], or a single weapon type make up for a glaring gap in design such as wired lances only being aimed horizontally).

It's less innovating for the series than something like Just Guard, which lets a close range class go from taking too many hits to controlling when it will block.

Well it's not like I don't agree with you, I just think it's been handled better than in other games that did the same thing. Though the fact that it's new to the series should clue you in that it's not gonna be executed perfectly...

And seriously, it sounds like your main complaint is that certain enemies fly too high. Wouldn't bringing the flying enemies lower solve that?

[gigawuts]

Yes and no. It still wouldn't solve the issue of melee combat still not being designed for elevated targets, making jumping the only way to hit certain targets as melee.

Take rockbear's face. How do you hit this with wired lances? Do you aim up? No. You jump. Blades on fucking wires and we can't just decide to point them up when we throw them out.

Over end. Aim it up? Giant goddamn blade, literally passes through rockbear's face for the final strike. Does it hit rockbear's face? Nope, gotta jump, because it only starts dealing damage when it's already horizontal. The examples go on, but become redundant to state.

This whole "it brings combat into the third dimension" shtick is a crock. It's a gimmick just like skilltrees. Skilltrees don't let you customize your class like everyone tries to say, they restrict you from doing other things unless you pay real money. They're both poorly implemented attempts to try to appeal to modern game audiences, by merely keeping up with the joneses instead of actually innovating something.

[Kondibon]

Yes and no. It still wouldn't solve the issue of melee combat still not being designed for elevated targets, making jumping the only way to hit certain targets as melee.

Take rockbear's face. How do you hit this with wired lances? Do you aim up? No. You jump. Blades on fucking wires and we can't just decide to point them up when we throw them out.

Over end. Aim it up? Giant goddamn blade, literally passes through rockbear's face for the final strike. Does it hit rockbear's face? Nope, gotta jump, because it only starts dealing damage when it's already horizontal. The examples go on, but become redundant to state.

This whole "it brings combat into the third dimension" shtick is a crock. It's a gimmick just like skilltrees. Skilltrees don't let you customize your class like everyone tries to say, they restrict you from doing other things unless you pay real money. They're both poorly implemented attempts to try to appeal to modern game audiences, by merely keeping up with the joneses instead of actually innovating something.You seem really bitter about this... I'm just going to end it here. Maybe I just have low standards or something.

[gigawuts]

People always seem to think I'm angrier than I am because I think things through more than them, and in turn have more to say about it.

[Zyrusticae]

If you REALLY want an example of an action game where jumping was implemented poorly look at the EX version of vindictus.
Omg yes

You can't even use it to jump over obstacles properly, it's literally there JUST so you can access an extra jumping attack, and that's it.

It makes me so damn sad. But then again, the character creation isn't half as good as PSO2 either, so I can never play the game for more than an hour at a time...

People always seem to think I'm angrier than I am because I think things through more than them, and in turn have more to say about it.
I'd say you say more because you're more invested in it than anything else...

[Kondibon]

People always seem to think I'm angrier than I am because I think things through more than them, and in turn have more to say about it.

I have a lot to say too. You should know. I rant all the time. I just don't care enough to bother in this case...

And I said bitter, not angry.

Meh. On topic.

My favorite mechanic is... uh... Gawd, there's lots of stuff I love in principal but not in execution...

I like the idea of skill trees. I don't like the cash gate to fix or change them.

I like the subclass system, but I don't like the way leveling subclasses works or the severe lack of consistency in all-class weapons.

I dunno, I'm kinda ambivalent about the game.

PSO2
"it could be worse I guess..."--Kondibon

[Z-0]

My least favourite system is the Emergency Quest system and the Extreme Quests systems.

seriously sega...
I suppose I wouldn't mind them if shit wasn't locked behind them.

[gigawuts]

I'd say you say more because you're more invested in it than anything else...

No more or less so than anything else I do, this is how I approach pretty much everything. But this thread isn't about me, unless it's about to be, in which case I should get some popcorn.gif.

I have a lot to say too. You should know. I rant all the time. I just don't care enough to bother in this case...

And I said bitter, not angry.This is a hair so thin that it quite often can't even be split. But yeah.

The subclass system is good in some ways, but bad in others. They really need to open up skill damage type restrictions to make it work. I see no real reason that Weak Hit Advance shouldn't work with striking. Like, seriously, not even one. Same with Zero Range Advance.

[Kondibon]

My least favourite system is the Emergency Quest system and the Extreme Quests systems.

seriously sega...
I suppose I wouldn't mind them if shit wasn't locked behind them.Oh yeah I forgot about those. I don't mind emergency quests but I wish more would run at the same time, and I feel miffed that certain areas are only accessible through EQs and XQs (coughcitycough) Though I get the feeling the 5th "planet" is gonna have the City, ARKS Ship Debris (the place we fought falz, we've only seen the boss room), and Darker Den as the areas. Because progression.


No more or less so than anything else I do, this is how I approach pretty much everything. But this thread isn't about me, unless it's about to be, in which case I should get some popcorn.gif.
This is a hair so thin that it quite often can't even be split. But yeah.

The subclass system is good in some ways, but bad in others. They really need to open up skill damage type restrictions to make it work. I see no real reason that Weak Hit Advance shouldn't work with striking. Like, seriously, not even one. Same with Zero Range Advance.I split hairs on a subatomic level.

I wouldn't mind certain skills working with all damage types but to be honest I'd prefer if they just stopped adding skills that boil down to "Gain X damage with Y damage type, when you do Z" More stuff like pp bullet save, and showtime star. Also Having more skills work with other weapons. Showtime would be great with Katana gear and Katana Combat would be great with every melee weapon. 3:

[gigawuts]

Yeah I agree, skills that do stuff are better. I also wish they'd equalize bonuses across the classes, HU having so much damage to offer to so many classes really ruins main/sub balance. If I want to sub fighter on braver I shouldn't be penalized so heavily for it, not just in total bonuses but in having to change stances too.

[Zyrusticae]

It's really bothersome that they can't do something as simple as balance the numbers against each other.

Like, just set a baseline that every class follows, and then modify it if and only if the bonus is very situational - Weak Hit Advance and Standing Snipe count for this, IMO, but less so than Zero Range Advance, Aerial Advance, and Perfect Keeper, all of which warrant having twice as much of a damage bonus to justify their extreme situational nature. All of Gunner is just kind of messed up, really - it's only S-Roll Up that keeps them in the running (and they were in a REALLY bad spot before they added that).

But we've been over this before. Pretty much everyone agrees SEGA sucks at math. It's just fact at this point. At the very least, none of the classes feel completely superfluous right now, so I can at least give them credit for that.

[Exxy]

Least Mechanic?

RNG.

[AgemFrostMage]

Riiiiiiiight, which I stated in the post you quoted earlier.

The only reason it's even a big deal is it's the first PS game to allow it, which means the series was just fine without it. They've made a point to create enemies you specifically need to jump, swing, swing, swing, swing, swing, jump, swing, swing, swing, jump, swing, swing, swing to kill as melee, while other classes only jump to evade attacks and to get onto some elevated terrain.

The point is that this is precisely what makes jumping a poor mechanic here. Instead of making it a part of ordinary, fluid gameplay, it's just flashy and poorly thought out. It's clearly been added for the sole purpose of being able to go "woah guys, look! you can jump now! look how modern PS is!"

Now, if there was a way to more easily bring high up enemies down, like I don't know if they created a kind of weapon where the blades are maybe on the tips of wires and you go aim them up...

Oh right, those weapons do exist, but 90% of melee's arsenal can only be aimed directly in front of you. The number of moves you can use to hit something that's above you is depressingly small given how some of the weapons would so plainly be able to reach airborne enemies. This is part of why it's a gimmick. They very clearly only added it to A. seem more modern, B. try to seem like they're innovating the series, when the reality is combat is still very much 2 dimensional for the one class that would need it because they can't even most of their attacks aim up (I'm sure there's people just frothing at the mouth, waiting to try to correct me with "but daggers!" and "but air pocket swing!" and "but speed rain!", as though moves that graze at the very edge of their range, moves that are horribly designed and ridiculously difficult to control [nevermind control accurately], or a single weapon type make up for a glaring gap in design such as wired lances only being aimed horizontally).

It's less innovating for the series than something like Just Guard, which lets a close range class go from taking too many hits to controlling when it will block.

You can't argue against jumping then mention speed rain, you need jump to cancel the rooting dance at the end without having to dodge.

[AgemFrostMage]

Omg yes

You can't even use it to jump over obstacles properly, it's literally there JUST so you can access an extra jumping attack, and that's it.

It makes me so damn sad. But then again, the character creation isn't half as good as PSO2 either, so I can never play the game for more than an hour at a time...

I'd say you say more because you're more invested in it than anything else...

But... not being able to jump over obstacles is a bad thing.

[gigawuts]

1. You made my goddamn point for me, they designed speed rain with jumping in mind

2. you can dash cancel speed rain and just use it again, what are you even talking about

3. speed rain sucks dicks stop using it or start playing very hard

[ShinKai]

The ability to dodge was the best thing to ever happen in PSO in my opinion. For too long did I have to wiggle my character around attacks and lose a good position for attacking or just grit my teeth and take a hit that I see coming from a mile away so I can make that attack I want to do.

A month ago I'd say Dudu and anything he does is the worst addition, but no. Monica. I'll stop ragging on Dudu Sega, just get rid of Monica. Please. I can't take her anymore. :(

[AgemFrostMage]

To be honest, I don't like people bashing on jumping, because it adds a whole new dimension of evadability. Take Ragne's Giygas Danmaku, or even Persona's Sonic Arrows. Jumping works really well. I've kind of wanted jumping for a while, since it adds new options for grander areas. FC is fairly decent, in this perspective, and makes things a bit more non-linear, such as the forest.

Agreed. When force dodges on ground it is stuck for too long but if it jumps and dodges it jumps again so as to not lose mobility. Was a godsend for round 10 of that extreme quest with the signo guns and snow banshee.

[Freshellent]

1. You made my goddamn point for me, they designed speed rain with jumping in mind

2. you can dash cancel speed rain and just use it again, what are you even talking about

3. speed rain sucks dicks stop using it or start playing very hard

holy shit I laughed way harder than i should have