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View Full Version : Is Triple Dashing unecessary now?



SquashDemon
Aug 14, 2013, 07:40 PM
With the introduction of guilty break's easy dash cancel, is there no point to triple dashing? Why or why not?

Z-0
Aug 14, 2013, 07:42 PM
There's never really any point to dashing unless you're after TA records, or you just enjoy doing it.

That being said, triple/quad/chloe dashing is still faster than Guilty Break.

Zenobia
Aug 14, 2013, 07:42 PM
Nah its still good why? Triple dashing isn't locked behind needing the gear and PP usage to go fast. It's still good for gap closing on enemies, but outside of that doesn't beat triple dashing guy.

Also Z-0 idk about you, but triple dashing is worth it anywhere.

BIG OLAF
Aug 14, 2013, 07:44 PM
It was never necessary unless you want to look like a Super Saiyan Neckbeard and enjoy getting to newly-spawned mobs one or two seconds before everyone else, which is pointless.

untrustful
Aug 14, 2013, 07:45 PM
guilty break is that sword rush pa right? Where do I get that?

Zenobia
Aug 14, 2013, 07:47 PM
It was never necessary unless you want to look like a Super Saiyan Neckbeard and enjoy getting to newly-spawned mobs one or two seconds before everyone else, which is pointless.

Sorry but when joining MPA's and not being near the party when they are mass killing shit then yeah it comes in handy specially PSE burst. Sorry Nassah when sega gives us a more better way of transportation I will stop.


@Untrustful you get it from Noire Drall.

NoiseHERO
Aug 14, 2013, 07:47 PM
In terms of travel, not knockle dashing or more feels slow as fuck.

Otherwise nothing more than running to an enemy and punching it in the balls with any weapon you want is necessary. : D

~Aya~
Aug 14, 2013, 07:57 PM
It was never necessary unless you want to look like a Super Saiyan Neckbeard and enjoy getting to newly-spawned mobs one or two seconds before everyone else, which is pointless.

Depends on what you do after you dash into the new group of monsters.. PA's like AB can take that group out before your pt catch up to you.

It is mostly for people who want to feel more efficient or for a fast pace gameplay which can be very fun.

Zipping around like a little ninja and doing what seems to be more complex/immersive combat feels good, too. It is a rush

Zenobia
Aug 14, 2013, 07:58 PM
Depends on what you do after you dash into the new group of monsters.. PA's like AB can take that group out before your pt catch up to you.

Aya shhh don't tell them our secrets........

jiasu73
Aug 14, 2013, 08:29 PM
Quad/triple/ghetto quad/ Kuroe more fun than walking!! PM Esofor if you would like the quad macro ^__^

Coatl
Aug 14, 2013, 08:33 PM
They need mounts in PSO2.

gigawuts
Aug 14, 2013, 08:35 PM
if ur not octodashing everywhere all the time ur a screb

Cyron Tanryoku
Aug 14, 2013, 08:38 PM
As a cast I demand the ability to transform into a vehicle for my fellow party members

Xaeris
Aug 14, 2013, 08:40 PM
Something something mount.

Freshellent
Aug 14, 2013, 08:52 PM
It was never necessary unless you want to look like a Super Saiyan Neckbeard and enjoy getting to newly-spawned mobs one or two seconds before everyone else, which is pointless.

I knew you was thinkin' that when you saw me do it. I enjoy the action, everyone's got something funny to say about it but SSJNB is a brand new one that I'm gonna think about everytime now.

A lot of it comes from triangle/square jumping in fighting games. Even wave dashing, which started in Tekken, not Smash like a lot of people seem to think. Something about JP games that have movement related skills that are just fun to do.

I won't argue it's purpose in PSO2 outside of TAs, but I know quite a few people that think it's the dumbest thing they've ever seen. Some people wanna play children with enormous weapons and others want to be men in suits that move like they are having seizures or are really just robot fetishists with a passion for the speedy clang-clangs.

Also wtf this poll

~Aya~
Aug 14, 2013, 09:17 PM
I knew you was thinkin' that when you saw me do it. I enjoy the action, everyone's got something funny to say about it but SSJNB is a brand new one that I'm gonna think about everytime now.

A lot of it comes from triangle/square jumping in fighting games. Even wave dashing, which started in Tekken, not Smash like a lot of people seem to think. Something about JP games that have movement related skills that are just fun to do.

I won't argue it's purpose in PSO2 outside of TAs, but I know quite a few people that think it's the dumbest thing they've ever seen. Some people wanna play children with enormous weapons and others want to be men in suits that move like they are having seizures or are really just robot fetishists with a passion for the speedy clang-clangs.

Also wtf this poll

The third part of your post is amazing.. LOOOL.....

KuroKanden
Aug 14, 2013, 09:24 PM
I dash on a regular basis and it has slowly become a habit of mine. Triples are actually quite easy once you get the hang of it, just comes down to muscle memory. I've been doing it for extended periods of time with AQs and have no problems whatsoever.

Perhaps its just me, but whenever I play Hunter/Fighter I feel a total obligation to dash. I simply enjoy being super efficient at all times.. call me a masochist if you will ; you're a melee player, you're supposed to get to mobs ASAP before the ranged professions take out the baddies. Again, until they release a sprint option for melee classes, this seems like the best work around/simulation you can possibily get.

Chdata
Aug 14, 2013, 09:46 PM
I've been putting off learning triple dashing because I mostly play FoTe and my other char is a GuHu main.

But I'm like Cirno, it's something I have to learn some day.

It's like learning how to swap in Microvolts.

(If you're curious, it's basically a fking ridiculous keyboard set up that lets you easier abuse their weapon switching thing where you can shoot faster by switching between shots.)

http://youtu.be/XYNDV8rYWPA?t=51s

KuroKanden
Aug 14, 2013, 09:49 PM
If it concerns you, here's a rather clean tutorial that I got ahold of ; again, knuckle dashing is a viable alternative, and does not require strict executions as compared to triples/quads > L33T step(?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y_7ueOrmoNM

Chdata
Aug 14, 2013, 09:57 PM
I really wish PSO2 had more options of keyboard/mouse customization.

Especially with the fast weapon switch keys. Sticking it to either numpad or 1-0 doesn't work for me. Especially with the existence of subpalletes in this game.

In Team Fortress 2 I've made my own scripts to change a lot of my binds on a per class basis.

My common way of doing things is up on scroll wheel = primary weapon, down on wheel = secondary, mwheelclick = melee weapon.

A few other classes are set up differently though, a few have different things that happen on right click for example.

Optimally I just want my mousewheelclick to switch to my gunslash ;o;

Esofor
Aug 14, 2013, 10:01 PM
just because you're fote or w/e class that doesn't have access to daggers or assbust, doesn't mean you can't move fast!!

the server is incredibly laggy cause no maint and i can't くろえステップ(quad step with aiming shot cancel)、 but anyways


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=14ZO4VKWsV4

i can usually outspeed knuckle dashers and some triple dashers, but never someone who can quad/assbust really well

Chdata
Aug 14, 2013, 10:04 PM
just because you're fote or w/e class that doesn't have access to daggers or assbust, doesn't mean you can't move fast!!

the server is incredibly laggy cause no maint and i can't くろえステップ(quad step with aiming shot cancel)、 but anyways

【PSO2】. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=14ZO4VKWsV4)

i can usually outspeed knuckle dashers and some triple dashers, but never someone who can quad/assbust really well

I know, though the thing is as FoTe, it depends on what I'm doing. For AQ I think I'd be fine sacrificing a weapon slot for another equip, but for TACOs there's a specific spell combination I have set up that uses just about every slot.

Of course, whenever I do learn this dash, I'll probably have enough fun with it that I'll try to compensate.

Edit: Also wtf was that pp regen lol

More like: teachmedatdash;o

Aka
Aug 14, 2013, 10:05 PM
just because you're fote or w/e class that doesn't have access to daggers or assbust, doesn't mean you can't move fast!!

the server is incredibly laggy cause no maint and i can't くろえステップ(quad step with aiming shot cancel)、 but anyways

【PSO2】. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=14ZO4VKWsV4)

i can usually outspeed knuckle dashers and some triple dashers, but never someone who can quad/assbust really well

I heard you like Namegid. Iz true?


I know, though the thing is as FoTe, it depends on what I'm doing. For AQ I think I'd be fine sacrificing a weapon slot for another equip, but for TACOs there's a specific spell combination I have set up that uses just about every slot.

Of course, whenever I do learn this dash, I'll probably have enough fun with it that I'll try to compensate.

Edit: Also wtf was that pp regen lol

More like: teachmedatdash;o

Most likely PP Convert. Must have activated prior to recording.

Chdata
Aug 14, 2013, 10:10 PM
didn't know it stays after switching it off the palette

UnLucky
Aug 14, 2013, 10:11 PM
the hell is a kuroe dash now

I look away for one second and we have five new names for the same goddamn method of travel

Esofor
Aug 14, 2013, 10:13 PM
yeah i activated pp convert cause server is too laggy to use only 1 aiming shot cancel

and namegid is best skill

i really see no point in using any other tech

kuroedash is a dash used by famous TA player くろえちゃん of ship 2. it involves quad dash and aiming shot cancel to imitate the step attack that fi's and /hu's get

i only call it that cause kuroe godlike

Aka
Aug 14, 2013, 10:16 PM
the hell is a kuroe dash now

I look away for one second and we have five new names for the same goddamn method of travel

Kuroe/Chloe/くろえ is a Ship 2 player who was part of the winning team at the Arks GP. In one of thier latest TA videos, they incorporated Aiming Shot canceling into regular triple/quad dashing which is what you are seeing in Esofor's video. So we just started calling this the Kuroe dash.

Edit: Esofor types fast as well as moves fast. What a tryhard.

jiasu73
Aug 14, 2013, 10:31 PM
Buff FO/HU plz so i can quad+ assbust without feeling to weak for competitive play outside of nab1!

SakoHaruo
Aug 14, 2013, 10:35 PM
I used triple dashing all the time till my gamer girlfriend cheated on me for some lame ass Cast. he was a quad dasher >_>

Zenobia
Aug 14, 2013, 10:41 PM
I used triple dashing all the time till my gamer girlfriend cheated on me for some lame ass Cast. he was a quad dasher >_>

Dayum son dats a dick move LOL.

Walkure
Aug 14, 2013, 11:09 PM
I used triple dashing all the time till my gamer girlfriend cheated on me for some lame ass Cast. he was a quad dasher >_>

If only you were more dashing!

Freshellent
Aug 14, 2013, 11:10 PM
If only you were more dashing!

FUCK I KNEW SOMEONE WAS GONNA BEAT ME TO IT
;losdjf;ldsfjkl1sdjf;lsdjfsdajf;ldfs

Zenobia
Aug 14, 2013, 11:10 PM
If only you were more dashing!

ISEEWHATCHUDIDDER~!

NeverDT
Aug 14, 2013, 11:16 PM
This poll doesn't make any sense at all.

But to answer the title, no, I don't think there's any reason to put sword back on any palette I'm using. If I want to burn PP to move faster I'll use buster.

SakoHaruo
Aug 14, 2013, 11:23 PM
If only you were more dashing!

haha.... >_>

I'll find that fool and prove to him that I'm the fastest. I won't lose this time >D

Chik'Tikka
Aug 15, 2013, 12:54 AM
latency/frame drops make dashing really hard to time, and if i make a mistake it turns slower then normal running, so i don't really do it often, imma just wait to see *if* SEGAC patches it out at some point+^_^+ that, and I'd like my controller to last another 6 months if i can help it (fingernails are already starting to carve impressions on the buttons)+^_^+

Nikoshae
Aug 15, 2013, 12:59 AM
I don't know how to triple dash >.>

I also primarily play as ranged these days, so I don't even think I could if I wanted to lol

Crysteon
Aug 15, 2013, 01:37 AM
I kinda feel obliged to triple dash when I'm playing as my Dewman (he's Br/Hu), especially while doing TAs, but it's not like I prefer it over Knuckle dashing (since last one is easier to perform and feels less than a chore to do it). There are times I refrain from abusing of it because constant weapon switching seems to lag some of my friends or team mates at times, though.

Rien
Aug 15, 2013, 01:44 AM
How do you even guilty break cancel?

The backwards bounce at the end just makes it way too inefficient.

Maninbluejumpsuit
Aug 15, 2013, 02:06 AM
How do you even guilty break cancel?

The backwards bounce at the end just makes it way too inefficient.

Dash after the full body tackle at the end on the ground.



I won't argue it's purpose in PSO2 outside of TAs, but I know quite a few people that think it's the dumbest thing they've ever seen. Some people wanna play children with enormous weapons and others want to be men in suits that move like they are having seizures or are really just robot fetishists with a passion for the speedy clang-clangs.

Lol.

Rien
Aug 15, 2013, 02:44 AM
Yeah the tackle bounces you backwards and it just feels inefficient.

Nitro Vordex
Aug 15, 2013, 03:13 AM
I really don't give a shit. I've seen people go dashing by me while in MPA's. Which is hilarious, because I'm still right behind them with trusty old "V", aka Cools Control. Lean back and watch them dash while I go for a good ol' jog. I only dash in with Knuckles if I REALLY want to get in there. Otherwise, auto run all day. It looks like too much work for too little payout, and it's not really "pro", unless you gotta get those sick TA times, bro.

Aka
Aug 15, 2013, 04:07 AM
I kinda feel obliged to triple dash when I'm playing as my Dewman (he's Br/Hu), especially while doing TAs, but it's not like I prefer it over Knuckle dashing (since last one is easier to perform and feels less than a chore to do it). There are times I refrain from abusing of it because constant weapon switching seems to lag some of my friends or team mates at times, though.

We(Me, Zynoobic and Esofor) did some testing involving the lag/stuttering caused by triple dashing and found some very baffling results. When switching to certain weapon models the game will get minor lag/stutters on most PCs, even on decent gaming machines.

Twin Reapings, Nishiki(both the all class daggers :rolleyes:) and Oboro were the biggest culprits with some other 'yellow' daggers (9* Lambdas, 5* generic) also causing noticable lag. Even if only 1 person uses a combination of 2 of these daggers, most people can feel the stuttering. And when you have multiple people trying it, the lag becomes hilariously unbearable to the point where no one can dash consistantly.

In our TAs, our Fighters now use 1-3* daggers which strangely causes no noticable lag (Coffin daggers seem fine too) and non-fighters either just knuckle dash or Triple dash using a ghetto combination of Camo'd Nishikis and Eight Ounces.

We also know for sure that it's not latency related because Japanese TAers experience those dagger problems too.

Zipzo
Aug 15, 2013, 04:19 AM
Honestly...I think the existence of such methods are kinda lame. It's not "normal" and it sort of breaks immersion (lol) a little bit to see characters spazzing themselves out just to get somewhere a little bit quicker.

That being said I still do it because I like the increased efficiency, but I wouldn't complain if SEGA straight up broke our ability to do it.

Zenobia
Aug 15, 2013, 04:31 AM
Ya know I am still loling at that 3rd option on the poll list I so wanna press that button~!

Zipzo
Aug 15, 2013, 04:49 AM
Ya know I am still loling at that 3rd option on the poll list I so wanna press that button~!

I hit simply because it was the funniest option.

BIG OLAF
Aug 15, 2013, 06:45 AM
I knew you was thinkin' that when you saw me do it. I enjoy the action, everyone's got something funny to say about it but SSJNB is a brand new one that I'm gonna think about everytime now.

Oh, I didn't even notice you were doing it. Unless you mean knuckle dashing, which I find perfectly okay. It doesn't take much effort to do, and it gets you to where the action is faster. I do it myself when I'm using knuckles and I see a boss/code/whatever spawned a significant distance away. But, like, when it comes to hyper-deluxe-super-octo-multiplex-ultimate-XX2-REMIX dashing, or whatever those mouthbreathers call it, just...no. The effort isn't worth the result, unless you're using it in TAs.

...and even then it probably only shaves a whole ~10 seconds off your time.

Zenobia
Aug 15, 2013, 06:59 AM
But, like, when it comes to hyper-deluxe-super-octo-multiplex-ultimate-XX2-REMIX dashing

Like wow what, what is this LOL I dun even.....!?

BIG OLAF
Aug 15, 2013, 07:01 AM
Like wow what, what is this LOL I dun even.....!?

It's called 'mocking', sweetheart.

Zenobia
Aug 15, 2013, 07:03 AM
It's called 'mocking', sweetheart.

No like that was the most off the wall combo word I ever seen pure lol material.

gigawuts
Aug 15, 2013, 08:07 AM
robot fetishists with a passion for the speedy clang-clangs.

so uh

you busy tonight?

~Aya~
Aug 15, 2013, 08:10 AM
so uh

you busy tonight?

He meant playing rock em sock em robots.

Zenobia
Aug 15, 2013, 08:12 AM
He meant playing rock em sock em robots.

You wanna know whats funny Aya? Giga was srs regardless<3~!

Crysteon
Aug 15, 2013, 09:51 AM
We(Me, Zynoobic and Esofor) did some testing involving the lag/stuttering caused by triple dashing and found some very baffling results. When switching to certain weapon models the game will get minor lag/stutters on most PCs, even on decent gaming machines.

Twin Reapings, Nishiki(both the all class daggers :rolleyes:) and Oboro were the biggest culprits with some other 'yellow' daggers (9* Lambdas, 5* generic) also causing noticable lag. Even if only 1 person uses a combination of 2 of these daggers, most people can feel the stuttering. And when you have multiple people trying it, the lag becomes hilariously unbearable to the point where no one can dash consistantly.

In our TAs, our Fighters now use 1-3* daggers which strangely causes no noticable lag (Coffin daggers seem fine too) and non-fighters either just knuckle dash or Triple dash using a ghetto combination of Camo'd Nishikis and Eight Ounces.

We also know for sure that it's not latency related because Japanese TAers experience those dagger problems too.

It's funny you mention that because I was discussing the same thing with a mate last night, because it has been a while since certain animations or actions (like PBs and such) in game have been causing a bigger graphic load than usual, even on good PCs.

That would explain a lot of the sudden gfx lag, since I use Nishiki and Twin Reaping to perform it. Another teammate does it with both kinds of Coffin daggers and also experiences the same lag. But it's curious that when I perform a triple dash with other kind of weapon, such as knuckles partisans or katanas, there is no such a thing.

Freshellent
Aug 15, 2013, 09:55 AM
so uh

you busy tonight?

You guys might wanna leave the room.

It's gonna get really noisy in here

Zenobia
Aug 15, 2013, 09:58 AM
You guys might wanna leave the room.

It's gonna get really noisy in here

-Beep boop-

*Record processors initiating*

Ready for my robit action....

pkemr4
Aug 15, 2013, 11:25 AM
the whole process of steps/double step/triple step/quad step sounds a whole lot like how MCA works in SDGO

Zyrusticae
Aug 15, 2013, 11:31 AM
I really don't give a shit. I've seen people go dashing by me while in MPA's. Which is hilarious, because I'm still right behind them with trusty old "V", aka Cools Control. Lean back and watch them dash while I go for a good ol' jog. I only dash in with Knuckles if I REALLY want to get in there. Otherwise, auto run all day. It looks like too much work for too little payout, and it's not really "pro", unless you gotta get those sick TA times, bro.
This is pretty much my attitude towards it.

I also don't like the idea of keeping twin daggers or knuckles in my inventory JUST to do this, and I especially don't like the idea of using macros (it feels like cheating to me), even during Lilipa TA when people are macroing the terminals it just feels wrong.

Husq
Aug 15, 2013, 12:52 PM
It's funny you mention that because I was discussing the same thing with a mate last night, because it has been a while since certain animations or actions (like PBs and such) in game have been causing a bigger graphic load than usual, even on good PCs.

That would explain a lot of the sudden gfx lag, since I use Nishiki and Twin Reaping to perform it. Another teammate does it with both kinds of Coffin daggers and also experiences the same lag. But it's curious that when I perform a triple dash with other kind of weapon, such as knuckles partisans or katanas, there is no such a thing.

Think this is actually cause by the way how activities are synching between client(s) and server.
From my experience doing triple dash in a solo environment, doesn't do much noticeable lag, same with PB. It is just in MPA or parties, with people connected around the world, it becomes apparent and annoying.
I really don't think it has anything directly to do with rendering of the animations on your own machine, but rather the communication between the server and clients, that gives it's ok, before allowing it to be rendered on your machine, but i could be wrong.

Shadowth117
Aug 15, 2013, 12:57 PM
Think this is actually cause by the way how activities are synching between client(s) and server.
From my experience doing triple dash in a solo environment, doesn't do much noticeable lag, same with PB. It is just in MPA or parties, with people connected around the world, it becomes apparent and annoying.
I really don't think it has anything directly to do with rendering of the animations on your own machine, but rather the communication between the server and clients, that gives it's ok, before allowing it to be rendered on your machine, but i could be wrong.

If it were actually lag, this might be a reasonable theory. But the fact is, we're getting massive frame rate drops for a moment upon switching. The game operates fine without server input as far as frame rate goes although without it, objects can sometimes be stuck in a certain state since they need server input to proceed further. The game doesn't drop frames when standby-like behavior that comes from lag happens though; it simply runs how it always does, albeit with certain silly behaviors.

Esofor
Aug 15, 2013, 01:46 PM
who actually thinks there are macros that exist for triple/quad dashing??

also you haters sound jealous

like time attacks are 90% running

if you knew how to move fast, you'd get them done much quicker

facts

Zyrusticae
Aug 15, 2013, 01:57 PM
who actually thinks there are macros that exist for triple/quad dashing??
This is a fact, these macros exist and people use them.


also you haters sound jealous
Irrelevant.


like time attacks are 90% running
Made-up statistic alert!


if you knew how to move fast, you'd get them done much quicker
I'm not sure 10% quicker qualifies as "much" by most peoples' criteria.


facts
This is the best punchline. Good job. I laughed heartily.

Esofor
Aug 15, 2013, 02:06 PM
if you really understood how precise you'd need to be with dashing, you wouldn't say that

macros would be terribly inefficient and you'd be better off knuckle dashing or some shit

~Aya~
Aug 15, 2013, 02:10 PM
who actually thinks there are macros that exist for triple/quad dashing??

also you haters sound jealous

like time attacks are 90% running

if you knew how to move fast, you'd get them done much quicker

facts

You should teach me how to "gotta go fast".

Macroless. Effortless. I want to be speed...


Thank you~!!!

UnLucky
Aug 15, 2013, 02:11 PM
But there's no point to going fast! I'm having fun as support Techer/Braver!

gigawuts
Aug 15, 2013, 02:16 PM
lol macros not existing anywhere on earth for things that involve more than one keypress

dude, macros exist for JAing techs, you really think people won't set up macros for multistep dashing?

Esofor
Aug 15, 2013, 02:28 PM
@aya not sure if serious, but there are many sources on this forum that explain how to move faster!

@giga i'm bad with english so my wording might not imply it, but i wouldn't doubt the existence of macros

i simply stated that macros involving dashing would be terribly inefficient due to the precise nature of the game

at least you got +1 post out of this

NoiseHERO
Aug 15, 2013, 02:31 PM
Mad lunchroom ruckus right here, chillout doo'.

~Aya~
Aug 15, 2013, 02:55 PM
@aya not sure if serious, but there are many sources on this forum that explain how to move faster!

@giga i'm bad with english so my wording might not imply it, but i wouldn't doubt the existence of macros

i simply stated that macros involving dashing would be terribly inefficient due to the precise nature of the game

at least you got +1 post out of this


Am serious.. I have looked and the threads I see are no good for me.. I need in game training to montage tracks.

Thank you once again~!

Cyron Tanryoku
Aug 15, 2013, 03:58 PM
I liek to go fast

Zelda taught me to go fast

Side jumping

SIDE JUMPING NEEDS TO BE A SKILL

~Aya~
Aug 15, 2013, 04:20 PM
Legend of Sanic: Gotta go fast to the past. More then just a triple dash.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TrySshF4eVs&feature=youtube_gdata_player"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TrySshF4eVs&feature=youtube_gdata_player

SquashDemon
Aug 15, 2013, 05:01 PM
I liek to go fast

Zelda taught me to go fast

Side jumping

SIDE JUMPING NEEDS TO BE A SKILL

...isn't it kinda already? I mean, you have step plus left or right, or the mechgun's lateral stylish roll.

EDIT: I guess the poll only makes sense to me, oh well. /shrug/

~Aya~
Aug 15, 2013, 05:15 PM
...isn't it kinda already? I mean, you have step plus left or right, or the mechgun's lateral stylish roll.

EDIT: I guess the poll only makes sense to me, oh well. /shrug/


This guy just /shrugged...

CONGRATULATIONS!!

Esofor
Aug 15, 2013, 05:27 PM
Am serious.. I have looked and the threads I see are no good for me.. I need in game training to montage tracks.

Thank you once again~!

i don't think i can do any in game training things to help you lol

http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm20779322

this video gives you a basic idea of what to press

but i will copy and paste to you what i tell most people who don't know what buttons to press

"what i do is i dash->weapon switch, LA->dash, jumpdash, jumpdash-> step atk. the timing comes to everyone a little differently, so fiddle around with it and see what timing works best for you."

just so you know jumping gets rid of weapon switch lag

SquashDemon
Aug 15, 2013, 05:30 PM
This guy just /shrugged...

CONGRATULATIONS!!

T_T I-I'm just so happy! I never thought people would ever recognize my work, I've been trying so hard to break from asterisks! I-I just.../sob/ thank you so much!

~Aya~
Aug 15, 2013, 05:35 PM
T_T I-I'm just so happy! I never thought people would ever recognize my work, I've been trying so hard to break from asterisks! I-I just.../sob/ thank you so much!


You've earned it. Thank you for your hard work! Cheers!

Nitro Vordex
Aug 15, 2013, 07:15 PM
If it were actually lag, this might be a reasonable theory. But the fact is, we're getting massive frame rate drops for a moment upon switching. The game operates fine without server input as far as frame rate goes although without it, objects can sometimes be stuck in a certain state since they need server input to proceed further. The game doesn't drop frames when standby-like behavior that comes from lag happens though; it simply runs how it always does, albeit with certain silly behaviors.
Sega is not the best programmers in the world, we know that. It might just be the inefficiency at which the game has to reload models. I think the models are stored client side (duh), but the input for changing weapons probably has to communicate. I would not doubt the presence of lag from servers, since they're, you know, on the other side of the goddamn planet.

gigawuts
Aug 15, 2013, 07:18 PM
Considering they lack LOD models I wouldn't be surprised if the client purged any trace of a model it's not currently rendering, forcing it to check the hard drive every time someone swaps weapons.

Wouldn't it just be a hoot if I was right, because that is fucking terrible.

KuroKanden
Aug 15, 2013, 07:29 PM
I can indeed confirm that the lag source roots from specific weapon models such as the 錦 (Nishiki) and the Twin Reaping. A friend of mine has always complained how his game stutters whenever I dash. That issue is now completely resolved after I've switched to the Coffins and I also find myself to be able to dash more consistently. ; it does affect some lower-end machines to an extent, but as to me there is barely any notable latency or frame drops.

I would say still to sway away from these weapons if you intend to solely use them as dashing tools. Either that or you camo them as people have mentioned above.

Cyron Tanryoku
Aug 15, 2013, 07:33 PM
...isn't it kinda already? I mean, you have step plus left or right, or the mechgun's lateral stylish roll.
They don't make you go fast tho

Aeris
Aug 15, 2013, 08:36 PM
I can indeed confirm that the lag source roots from specific weapon models such as the 錦 (Nishiki) and the Twin Reaping. A friend of mine has always complained how his game stutters whenever I dash. That issue is now completely resolved after I've switched to the Coffins and I also find myself to be able to dash more consistently. ; it does affect some lower-end machines to an extent, but as to me there is barely any notable latency or frame drops.

I would say still to sway away from these weapons if you intend to solely use them as dashing tools. Either that or you camo them as people have mentioned above.

Much as i seen people double or triple dashing, i haven't had any issues of it affecting my computer and such since they usually a distance away from me since i mainly use keyboard and a wireless mouse since my controller will not work properly with PSO2 anyway.

SquashDemon
Aug 15, 2013, 08:42 PM
They don't make you go fast tho

but at least in the case of Stylish roll, they allow you to climb mountains.

Aka
Aug 15, 2013, 08:51 PM
Much as i seen people double or triple dashing, i haven't had any issues of it affecting my computer and such since they usually a distance away from me since i mainly use keyboard and a wireless mouse since my controller will not work properly with PSO2 anyway.

Not sure what you're trying to get at here but keyboard/mouse/controller have nothing to do with the triple dash lag. As I and KuroKanden have mentioned, the problems stem from certain weapon models.

And if you're refering to people triple dashing off screen far away from you, that also doesn't matter. The problem seems to be map area wide.

Not everyone will experience this stuttering though. It seems higher end machines are less likely or not at all affected.

Zenobia
Aug 15, 2013, 08:58 PM
Not sure what you're trying to get at here but keyboard/mouse/controller have nothing to do with the triple dash lag. As I and KuroKanden have mentioned, the problems stem from certain weapon models.

And if you're refering to people triple dashing off screen far away from you, that also doesn't matter. The problem seems to be map area wide.

Not everyone will experience this stuttering though. It seems higher end machines are less likely or not at all affected.

No its not that either was in a TA day before yesterday playing with 3 other people They were all close to me and I would triple dash, all but one whined and said she was affected by it rest were fine and they don't even have high end comps.

KuroKanden
Aug 15, 2013, 09:07 PM
I suspect it might be gpu-related as to why rendering a specific weapon model can cause issues. But nonetheless the problem is still lies there, its just that not much people are aware of it.

Yes I can verify that its map-wide, as long as someone within the map's vicinity triples(more inclined to say weapon switch) with either of those weapons, you are likely be a victim of the spikes.

Zyrusticae
Aug 15, 2013, 09:11 PM
It's more likely related to hard drive speed, fragmentation, and RAM bandwidth more than anything related to GPU speed. It seems to me that the game unloads the model every time it's switched out and reloads it every time it is switched in, hence the "stutter".

I, for example, never experience any weapon switching stutter, but I have the game running on a solid state disk, which means load times are blazing fast. It's likely those suffering from "lag" from weapon switching have the game running on a platter drive that is probably heavily fragmented. If you have this issue, I suggest defragmenting your hard drive thoroughly before concluding it is related to GPU issues.

Cyron Tanryoku
Aug 15, 2013, 09:14 PM
I had the stutter prior to my new GPU..

Aka
Aug 15, 2013, 09:38 PM
All of the possible reasons stated in the last few posts are definately viable but there are time where we (We, as in the few people I TA or TACO often with) have experienced far less stuttering at certain times compared to others.

While TACOing today I was triple dashing with the culprit daggers and we all agreed at the end that it was far less noticable than normal. On other days even 1 person triple dashing with said daggers makes the stuttering unbearable. It's incredibly baffling.

Zenobia
Aug 15, 2013, 09:41 PM
Well that's just a few people that being the ones you primarily play with, a few people don't count for a whole.

But yea pretty sure this doesn't happen too some other people as well outside from the group you play with.

MidCap
Aug 16, 2013, 01:53 PM
They could fix all of this meta-gaming crap by simply increasing the "weapon sheathed" running speed or reducing the speed of dash exploits.

Also, I still don't understand why using macros isn't considered cheating...?

Cyron Tanryoku
Aug 16, 2013, 01:55 PM
imo it's dumb dash isn't faster than running to begin with.
Then again it's apparently "Step"

gigawuts
Aug 16, 2013, 02:36 PM
Mandatory shameless plug about my old idea to have holding the dash button initiate a faster run for melee weapons, possibly via a 1 sp skill on melee classes. The speed would match knuckledashing speeds. Maybe consume PP, maybe consume a dash gauge, maybe be free and unlimited like all the pre-existing multistep methods.

Legitimizing player-discovered mechanics is awesome. See: Rocket jumping and all of the new and unique mechanics and concepts that it spurred.

Esofor
Aug 16, 2013, 03:39 PM
eh

i kinda like the execution barrier moving at the absolute fastest sets

not everyone can do it, but it doesn't necessarily hurt those who don't/can't do it

MidCap
Aug 16, 2013, 04:10 PM
Legitimizing player-discovered mechanics is awesome.

It's only awesome if it doesn't break an intended mechanic. The sheer fact that the player is supposed to move slower when "in combat" and faster "out of combat" proves that these movement methods were never intended. Like any other now-discovered exploit, it should be fixed.

SakoHaruo
Aug 16, 2013, 04:41 PM
Like any other now-discovered exploit, it should be fixed.

I disagree. This^ is why games die. The more options, the more fun you have with a game. You're killing apart of the games community when you think of shit like this and actually think it's a good idea.

gigawuts
Aug 16, 2013, 04:47 PM
It's only awesome if it doesn't break an intended mechanic. The sheer fact that the player is supposed to move slower when "in combat" and faster "out of combat" proves that these movement methods were never intended. Like any other now-discovered exploit, it should be fixed.

But that's the thing, every single emergent game mechanic discovered by players is going against an intended mechanic. Rocket jumping is just the easiest example. Rocket jumping went on to become one of the most recognizable video game mechanics there is, it's insanely silly and yet incredibly balanced when handled properly.

And it was completely unintended and entirely ruined map balance when it was originally figured out. Smart devs took that concept and used it, smart map makers built maps around it, etc. They took an unintended mechanic and built around it, shifting it towards "intended."

Which is the exact same shift you see with new classes and PAs in F2P games. Early game content was clearly not balanced around Braver and the 6* PAs, yet we have them and everything's dandy. So legitimize multistep speeds for classes that need it, then either fix it or leave it as a tedious chore for everything else.

SilverPhantasy
Aug 16, 2013, 05:50 PM
What is triple dashing?

SquashDemon
Aug 16, 2013, 06:23 PM
What is triple dashing?

It's an exploit that allows you to dash over great distances using the step ability, weapon swapping, and jumping. Someone actually posted how to do it earlier in the thread. =)

Z-0
Aug 17, 2013, 01:46 PM
yes triple dashing is quite unnecessary now because we now have the hextuple dash.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LZViFt-5uEY

Aine
Aug 17, 2013, 02:49 PM
Anyone know the inputs on hex dash?

Z-0
Aug 17, 2013, 03:41 PM
Judging from that video, the inputs are something like this (I assuming JP latency is a must for this):

Switch weapon and Lobby Action and Dash -> Dash -> Jump (to switch the weapon) -> Dash and switch weapon again -> Jump (to switch the weapon) -> Dash and Lobby Action -> Dash -> Jump -> Dash -> Step Attack

I can try it later but I highly doubt my weapon switch / lobby action will refresh in time since I'm in Europe. I can barely manage quad, because the lobby action comes out quite slowly.

Both of my friends (who can quad comfortably) couldn't perform this earlier no matter how much they tried, so...

Zenobia
Aug 18, 2013, 12:44 AM
Lord hextuplet NOW!?

LOL.

FacelessRed
Aug 18, 2013, 04:01 AM
It was never necessary unless you want to look like a Super Saiyan Neckbeard and enjoy getting to newly-spawned mobs one or two seconds before everyone else, which is pointless.

After playing with such persons, who also bash on me for even putting a sword in my hands. Here here...

Zipzo
Aug 18, 2013, 06:52 AM
Well even if you get to it one or two seconds before everyone else...that means it wasn't pointless...

To bash or belittle people for using a technique that doesn't even require that much extraneous effort to do once you understand the button order seems kind of small-minded in my opinion. Maybe even slightly like projection.

It'd be different if they have to get up off the computer and do 10 cartwheels or put out some kind of magnificent load of effort that wouldn't be worth the payout of moving 1 more (your measurement of distance here) per second. That's not the case. These are buttons. This isn't the olympics.

The real neck beard award goes to the person who thinks they actually have the right to call everyone else neck beards for doing such a thing.

Zyrusticae
Aug 18, 2013, 01:44 PM
I just had the first TA run where I actually quit out of frustration with how much of an elitist, self-centered asshole one of the party members was.

You want to play things your way, fine, you're beholden to that. As soon as you get on someone else's case for not doing things exactly the way you want them to go, well... There's a limit to how much of that kind of junk I can take.

And it's the fact that so many of the people who religiously adhere to these "techniques" have exactly that kind of attitude that creates such a backlash against it. There's nothing wrong with using it if you want to, but if even a few of the people who do use it have this kind of "holier-than-thou" mannerism, that is an instantaneous turn-off to group with, and people will create that association between that kind of thinking and the technique itself.

UnLucky
Aug 18, 2013, 01:49 PM
What, did you do something stupid to ruin the run? Or did they go off on their own expecting you to do exactly what their usual team mates do?

I mean "Could you not hit that switch, please? I don't like dodging the enemies AND the explosive barrels, thanks" is one thing, but "Oh, don't know how to skip the drop code? Welp, cya later!" is another.

gravityvx
Aug 18, 2013, 01:56 PM
Alright I'll bite, what in the hell is a neckbeard, some kind of new sentient race?

Zyrusticae
Aug 18, 2013, 02:06 PM
What, did you do something stupid to ruin the run? Or did they go off on their own expecting you to do exactly what their usual team mates do?

I mean "Could you not hit that switch, please? I don't like dodging the enemies AND the explosive barrels, thanks" is one thing, but "Oh, don't know how to skip the drop code? Welp, cya later!" is another.
I'll lay it out for ya:
1. Everyone I've ever run with has hit the first switch in the mines in the Lilipa TA. That includes plenty of PUGs.
2. So of course I hit that switch, and then both of the guys there die to the explosive barrels soon after.
3. Guy throws a hissy-fit and forces everyone to the camp ship, declaring that he will not give more than a second chance. (He never stated during the run or beforehand that he would rather not have the switch hit.)

Of course at this point I leave, because who the fuck does that? If you don't want the damn switch hit you say so, and you don't force everyone to redo the entire run just because someone made a mistake. I've done many dozens of TA runs and I have never, EVER had someone throw a fit like this, EVER. I will, and have, tolerated 15-minute time attack runs, but I will not tolerate someone who's this much of an egotistical dickwad.

Goddamn, the whole experience soured me off TAs for the whole day. I won't be able to do another run until I wash this foolishness from my brain.

gigawuts
Aug 18, 2013, 02:08 PM
If anyone made the mistake it was him, what idiot places themselves in a position to die to those barrels without clarifying you don't want them opened up?

Seriously what a moron. "I'm going to leave myself vulnerable and then throw a galactic shitfit when my own shortcomings get me killed."

MetalDude
Aug 18, 2013, 02:13 PM
That's really more of a specific case of that guy being a moron, not the association with triple-dashers being elitist. You seriously need to separate cases more and not make blanket statements about groups of people over that.

Zyrusticae
Aug 18, 2013, 02:25 PM
I'm well aware of this, but elitism is elitism, and for many people, individual cases are inseparable from the greater issue that is essentially egotistical thinking.

Cyron Tanryoku
Aug 18, 2013, 02:30 PM
That guy sounded like an idiot

Whenever I TA with a different group I tend to put myself behind because I have NO idea how they plan things

jooozek
Aug 18, 2013, 02:31 PM
why waste time on PUGs? just solo that shit? if you can't solo, then you don't deserve the meseta from TACOs

SakoHaruo
Aug 18, 2013, 02:31 PM
it's called online gaming *coffee*

Also, FGC vs ESPORTS for lulz

MetalDude
Aug 18, 2013, 02:33 PM
Because Lilipa and Amduscia are seriously boring as shit solo.

UnLucky
Aug 18, 2013, 02:45 PM
I'll lay it out for ya:
1. Everyone I've ever run with has hit the first switch in the mines in the Lilipa TA. That includes plenty of PUGs.
2. So of course I hit that switch, and then both of the guys there die to the explosive barrels soon after.
3. Guy throws a hissy-fit and forces everyone to the camp ship, declaring that he will not give more than a second chance. (He never stated during the run or beforehand that he would rather not have the switch hit.)
Haha, I knew it.

But yeah, I generally hit that switch when I go north. I'd rather the other group not hit theirs, since it really doesn't help much with the way mobs spawn, but they usually don't anyway. I've had people tell me not to hit mine, so I don't if I run with them.

Pretty tough concept, I know.

Z-0
Aug 18, 2013, 03:44 PM
"Elitism" is when you insist everything must be done one way, and not doing it that particular way labels you as an idiot.

Enjoying efficiency (such as clearing TAs quickly, doing them in a certain way, triple / quad dashing or using certain attacks) is not "elitism" and never will be. It's when people try to force said aspects on other people that it becomes elitism, and 99% of so-called "elitists" do not do this, they just play the game as they want, and when they join PUGs, they realise that not everyone plays the way they do, so if people do different things, they don't get mad or rage at them, they just work around it.

Zyru's scenario is a great example of elitism. People who enjoy to triple / quad dash are not elitists, nor are they "super saiyan neckbeards" or "mouthbreathers" or anything of the sort. I mean, weapon switches can cause lag to some machines, and if I find I'm lagging someone, I will stop what I'm doing and make sure I'm not lagging them.

Also I have no idea which switch it was, but if it's the first one on the north, people get that in TA runs... If it's the first one on the east, well, gotta be careful. That gets activated 50% of my runs and when I see the barriers drop I just step out to make sure I don't die.

Zyrusticae
Aug 18, 2013, 04:01 PM
Z-0 is correct. I have no arguments against that.

There's a lot of different ways to play, but the most important thing is that you just don't push your playstyle onto others. Honestly, the playerbase has been pretty good about this so far: again, this is the first time in over a year of playing PSO2 that I've actually been moved to quit because of someone's behavior. That's a pretty good track record, I think (it's a LOT different with an MMORPG like, say, Aion or TERA, where the playerbase tends to be uniformly toxic).

I wonder how much of that has to do with how much work you have to go through just to play the game in the first place?

UnLucky
Aug 18, 2013, 04:05 PM
I'm genuinely delighted that people enjoy and explore all aspects of this game. It gives me insight and opinions that I might never see on my own, and can then use that to advise other players with. Granted, they might suck (the player or the game), but I'm happy for them.

So long as they don't proclaim their underperforming playstyle as the best thing ever and that pure damage is a stupid thing to prioritize.

Friggin' elitists, man.

Chik'Tikka
Aug 18, 2013, 11:14 PM
What, did you do something stupid to ruin the run? Or did they go off on their own expecting you to do exactly what their usual team mates do?

I mean "Could you not hit that switch, please? I don't like dodging the enemies AND the explosive barrels, thanks" is one thing, but "Oh, don't know how to skip the drop code? Welp, cya later!" is another.

this just happened to me recently, was running Amduscia with a few GUs, so i figured "hey, imma take this opportunity to get EXP for my lvl 44" and they all skip the 1st area's code, leaving me behind to fight, i was unlucky, and maybe a little under equipped for that mission (i was with lvl 60 GUs, that ditched) and i died, so i waited a bit, got frustrated, and logged out+^_^+ which of course ended the TA for them+^_^+

Zenobia
Aug 19, 2013, 12:25 AM
this just happened to me recently, was running Amduscia with a few GUs, so i figured "hey, imma take this opportunity to get EXP for my lvl 44" and they all skip the 1st area's code, leaving me behind to fight, i was unlucky, and maybe a little under equipped for that mission (i was with lvl 60 GUs, that ditched) and i died, so i waited a bit, got frustrated, and logged out+^_^+ which of course ended the TA for them+^_^+

Your fault not theirs not like they knew and obv people like to get TA's done as fast as possible so yeah...kinda of a dick move from you though but I chuckled none the less.

Some of you have some fucked up notions of fair play.

Crysteon
Aug 19, 2013, 10:23 AM
Who uses TAs to gain exp for underleveled classes? : pokerface: