Questions About Darker's Den

[Evangelion X.XX]

While I was soloing the "Lilipian T.A.C.O." on Very Hard, I was unexpectedly abducted into Darker's Den for the very first time; it surprised the hell out of me because at the time, I did not know such a place existed. Ooh man... all I have to say is that this place does NOT "F" around if you're running it solo. Needless to say, I got my ass handed to me really good by an aircraft in area 2 which I did not know how to take down. I really wanted to beat this place... now, I don't know if I'll ever get a second chance.... such a darn shame that I was abducted while soloing and not in a party.

So in preparation for future abductions, I want to ask the following questions:

1) Are there conditions for being Abducted into Darker's Den? Can you be abducted more than once?
2) How do you take down that annoying aircraft in area 2?
3) How do you beat this place? If I remember correctly it says to collect points or something.
3) What happens when you complete the quest? Do you get anything special?
4) Have you beaten the place?
5) Is there only one difficulty setting for Darker's Den; that is, Very Hard only?

[EvilMag]

1. It's random. Though if you keep restart spamming to get abducted, your chances will decrease. You can't get reabducted until your clone expires which will in around 3 days.

2. You have to destroy the crystal tower for them to stop spawning which you'll run into.

3. Get to the end. It's pretty much like PSO1 in this mission, kill enemies to unlock the gates to proceed. After you complete the Den, your character will get cloned and can attack other players at random.

4. With others yes. Solo, no.

5. Very Hard only.

[Bellion]

1. You can only be abducted while running VH TAs. You can be abducted more than one time as long as your character's clone currently isn't roaming around.
2. Attacks that can hit from a distance to down it temporarily and destroy a crystal that ends the code destruction. There are 2 of them, but you can skip the 2nd one.
3. Basically, you beat your own clone and a certain boss in Area 3.
4. When you complete it, your clone is released and players in single party areas can have a chance to encounter your clone for a while. They expire and when they do, you can have a chance to get abducted again in the beginning of a VH TA.
5. Yeah, plenty of times.
6. Yep, VH only.

[landman]

It was my first time two days ago too. With no moons left, I run to the exit, only to meet my fate in front of my mates' and myself clones lol

[Evangelion X.XX]

Just stumbled back from Darker's Den again (solo'ed as FI/HU); I'm all tore up, but luckily I survived (thank God for Iron Will Lv. 10). Armed this time with knowledge and fore-sight the second time around, I managed to take out the aircraft thanks to your tips, and defeated the clone along with the "you know who" boss; I should mention that I did skip a couple of bosses in between like Ragne and Zesh though, since I was desperately trying to conserve my ~mates (mono, di, tri)... in fact, I ended up using all of them and even several star atomizers after I completed the place; I used most of my ~mates because of those grasshopper-karate-thingies that kept on stunning-gang-banging me and those poison-shooting-rotating-gun-apparatuses. Nevertheless I did it! Yay!

Thanks guys for the info.

[strikerhunter]

1) Are there conditions for being Abducted into Darker's Den? Can you be abducted more than once?
2) How do you take down that annoying aircraft in area 2?
3) How do you beat this place? If I remember correctly it says to collect points or something.
3) What happens when you complete the quest? Do you get anything special?
4) Have you beaten the place?
5) Is there only one difficulty setting for Darker's Den; that is, Very Hard only?

1. VH TACO only. Heard that it has a 3 day cooldown but I disproved that by having 3 in one day. Yes you can get abducted more than once.

2. Find the large crystal. Don't remember coordinates. You shoot down the ship with a ranged weapon to temporarily stop the ship from firing at you, another will come though.

3. Your clone can now appear in a Code Clone. And you get around 3-20 photon spheres from clones at the end of the mission. And you may get an Elder Pain from Hunar if you are lucky.

4. 5 out of 9 times before, just had 1 last week. (2 my party ditched it and 2 failed)

5. VH only.

Some people hunt for DD by starting a VH TACO and canceling it, rinse-n-repeat until they get it.

Note: No point system to finish the mission. You get 1 hour to reach to the boss fight and kill the clones and Hunar there to complete the mission.

Boss Order before getting to the end: Gwan, Code Baize, Ragne, Ship, Zesh and Ship, finish. There are 2 optional to kill Wolgs and 1 optional Ragne to kill.
Note: All can be rare versions also.

Main reasons why I like DD:
1. Rare bosses.
2. Challenging.
3. Hardest area to date.
4. Incredible amount of chance of rares.
5. Annoying bursts during rare boss fights that summons bunch of Rare ninjas.



2. Attacks that can hit from a distance to down it temporarily and destroy a crystal that ends the code destruction. There are 2 of them, but you can skip the 2nd one.

Last I recall, you can't skip the second one because there is a blocked area by the shields. The only things I remember that can be skipped are the 2 Wolgs and 1 Ragne. But do clear up my mistake if I'm wrong since I always kill those ship since that get on my nerves with cracker tons of damage.

[AzureBlaze]

Is there anything that PREVENTS you from getting abducted?

I (and other people I run with frequently) have NEVER been abducted, despite now having (and spending!) millions of meseta from Klotho's orders. Every chance we get, we try to do at least a VH TACO for somewhere. Yet no one ever gets abducted. It's not just me, too, it's everybody.

Didn't I also hear at the beginning that people thought it could abduct ANYwhere, but then TA was the 'highest risk' ? Was that proven false or something?

I get frustrated hearing people abandon this area because they "Cant be bothered" with "yet anoooooother abduction ugghh" while I can't even get in there a single time. I mean, it's all this content, this new area, this challenging thing and people can't even see it once.

So is there some "abduction prevention" item/condition/quest/etc that one of us accidentally has that's messing this up?

[gigawuts]

Is there anything that PREVENTS you from getting abducted?

I (and other people I run with frequently) have NEVER been abducted, despite now having (and spending!) millions of meseta from Klotho's orders. Every chance we get, we try to do at least a VH TACO for somewhere. Yet no one ever gets abducted. It's not just me, too, it's everybody.

Didn't I also hear at the beginning that people thought it could abduct ANYwhere, but then TA was the 'highest risk' ? Was that proven false or something?

I get frustrated hearing people abandon this area because they "Cant be bothered" with "yet anoooooother abduction ugghh" while I can't even get in there a single time. I mean, it's all this content, this new area, this challenging thing and people can't even see it once.

So is there some "abduction prevention" item/condition/quest/etc that one of us accidentally has that's messing this up?

If anyone has ever told you that you could be abducted "anywhere" they were completely wrong. How's it going to trap all four of you going down to the surface at once in a regular arks mission or free field? I could get saying it about anywhere with a gate, but no that's false too. It only happens with time attacks.

Anyway, if you want to prevent being abducted just bring me along. I haven't been abducted unless I'm solo in months.

[Chdata]

You chance of getting in the Den increases with the more Srank VH TACOs you do.

The Srank counter resets once you successfully complete a Den.

[strikerhunter]

You chance of getting in the Den increases with the more Srank VH TACOs you do.

The Srank counter resets once you successfully complete a Den.

Doesn't really explains the reasoning on why some rare few would be getting 3,4 or even 5 DDs in a row.

I say it's all just random luck.

Why? Because I highly doubt that anyone would not S rank a VH TACO if they know the shortcuts already, even then it's not hard getting S rank on them. So I doubt S ranking TAs has any affect on chances for DD. I went 3 months of VA TA every 2 days and didn't see DD just until last week.

[Dnd]

I went 3 months of VA TA every 2 days and didn't see DD just until last week.

I know people who have never been denned, despite running tacos every other day and even doing 6-7 hour marathon sessions of nab1/nab2 cycles to try and force a den to no luck. Yet myself when solo got denned 4 times in 3 days without even trying (This was before helping said friend with the above runs)

It is completely and utterly random, if you get denned, great, if not, suck it up and try again. from what I've seen i really don't think there is a counter (anymore*), or if there is its such a tiny difference you'd need to do hundreds to make a noticeable impact

[~Aya~]

If you get denned. Abandon. It was going to be a waste of time anyways~

8D

[strikerhunter]

If you get denned. Abandon. It was going to be a waste of time anyways~

8D

Don't you mean "It is" not "It was"?

Those two different wording makes a big difference ya know.

[~Aya~]

Don't you mean "It is" not "It was"?

Those two different wording makes a big difference ya know.


Nope nope nope.

[Punisher106]

If you get denned. Abandon. It was going to be a waste of time anyways~

8D

Bitch, you crazy.

The den is probably the most fun and challenging place there is. Higher rare boss rates, high PSE bursts, some unique E-trials, and an overall sense of urgency that you gotta break yourself out of this prison makes this place a real thrill ride. It also has the only area music that I like. I'd say it's worth it. By far. And what's better than beating yourself up, possibly one-on-one later on?

[Chdata]

Doesn't really explains the reasoning on why some rare few would be getting 3,4 or even 5 DDs in a row.

I say it's all just random luck.

Why? Because I highly doubt that anyone would not S rank a VH TACO if they know the shortcuts already, even then it's not hard getting S rank on them. So I doubt S ranking TAs has any affect on chances for DD. I went 3 months of VA TA every 2 days and didn't see DD just until last week.

Yeah, I have seen 3 dens in 3 days recently.

[strikerhunter]

Nope nope nope.

So it use to be a waste of time?

[~Aya~]

Bitch, you crazy.

The den is probably the most fun and challenging place there is. Higher rare boss rates, high PSE bursts, some unique E-trials, and an overall sense of urgency that you gotta break yourself out of this prison makes this place a real thrill ride. It also has the only area music that I like. I'd say it's worth it. By far. And what's better than beating yourself up, possibly one-on-one later on?


No u!

I dunnoooo ... drops are non existant and exp comes very easy no matter what you do. I listen to my own music and get enough thrill by AdD jumping around lobby or spazzing out with dashing in every quest I do. 8D;;;

[AgemFrostMage]

So a darker level. Let me guess, hunar and plenty of wondas are there, right? -_-

Naberius I and II are my only very hard TACOs so at least I'd be ready for Ragne with fire tree and PP convert subtree ^_^

[gigawuts]

So a darker level. Let me guess, hunar and plenty of wondas are there, right? -_-

Naberius I and II are my only very hard TACOs so at least I'd be ready for Ragne with fire tree and PP convert subtree ^_^

It's fun stuff, but there's no returning to the campship if you die. Either someone revives you or you head back to the lobby.

Due to that, and the kinds of enemies and (often flaming) hoops it throws at you, it can be a bit intense to do. At its release it was a bit harder with the poison water hitting you for way, way more damage than it does now, and since everyone was lower level and had worse gear it was a bigger challenge than it is now. Now it's kind of a chore just to get some titles, and I usually abandon because the only time I'm doing TACOs is when I want money right goddamn now and I don't feel like spending 30+ minutes doing anything that's harder than standing on buttons.

[~Aya~]

So it use to be a waste of time?

It always "was"

!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[KuroKanden]

I would gladly do DD anyday over a TA if the chance arises.

Mainly for the higher lv PA discs from rare bosses and photon drops, plus, its alot of fun. Perhaps one of the more challenging maps in the game.

[Z-0]

Photon Spheres are like 80,000 meseta right now (give or take), Darker's Den drops 4-5 when you go with a random group.

Seems worth it to me, considering it takes maybe 10~15 minutes.

[strikerhunter]

It always "was"

!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I only find DD a waste of time when I'm in a rush or EQ I want to do is on or whatever the hell reason I don't want to do it for at the time being.

Proper restatement for Aya's post: "It's just a waste of time and still is." sounds any better without the confusion of was and is?


Photon Spheres are like 80,000 meseta right now (give or take), Darker's Den drops 4-5 when you go with a random group.

Seems worth it to me, considering it takes maybe 10~15 minutes.

Yea it is worth it IMO if you have to time to deal with DD, plus you may never know what may drop :wacko:

[~Aya~]

I only find DD a waste of time when I'm in a rush or EQ I want to do is on or whatever the hell reason I don't want to do it for at the time being.

Proper restatement for Aya's post: "It's just a waste of time and still is." sounds any better without the confusion of was and is?


Thank you very much. But that is only my opinion. 8D....

[strikerhunter]

Thank you very much. But that is only my opinion. 8D....

I totally agree with your opinion though. There are times where you just don't want to do DD and just get with those TACOs done and then there are times where you want it and DD just doesn't show for months.

[EvilMag]

I do wish that there was a CO for the DD that gives for like 500k for completing it.

And before you say "But the Spheres you get can get you that money!" not everyone has a shop plus not everyone sells those spheres.

[~Aya~]

I totally agree with your opinion though. There are times where you just don't want to do DD and just get with those TACOs done and then there are times where you want it and DD just doesn't show for months.


I am defeated.

However, the last time I did try to get all of the TA's done before maintenance. (40 mins till maintenance at this point and duo TA). We happen to get DD on the very first TA. What luck!!


I will get you in the next season of this animu.

[Shirai]

Photon Spheres are like 80,000 meseta right now (give or take), Darker's Den drops 4-5 when you go with a random group.

Seems worth it to me, considering it takes maybe 10~15 minutes.

Couldn't help but agree with this.

[TaigaUC]

My theory is, remember when they said it would only abduct the most elite of ARKS?
I suspect that you are required to be within a small top percentage of players with the quickest TA times to qualify for abduction.
It likely separates the TA times based on number of party members (and TA area, of course).
That'd explain why it happens to solo much more often, because there probably aren't as many people with crazy solo times.
I think abduction used to happen more often for larger groups because not many people were blazing through TAs back then.
It's probably safe to say that most people do TAs in a full group, which means it's that much harder to fall within that small percentage of top players.
The top times also explains why you never see clones in crappy gear. They are always decked out, because good gear is required to achieve good times.

For example, if the top 15% of 4-person groups consistently complete TAs within 3 minutes, and your 4-person group's average is longer than 3 minutes, you will never get abducted.
Similarly, if your group's average time is within 3 minutes, but you are within the top 16% instead of 15%, you will also never get abducted.
On the other hand, if the top 15% of players soloing TA have an average completion time of within 12 minutes, and your average is 11 minutes, then you have a chance to get abducted.
In other words, the faster that more top players complete TA, the less chance the rest of us will ever see abduction.
Especially moreso with people spamming multiple dashes and switching weapons, which I'm sure was much less common before.

It's also possible that number of S ranks isn't related to being within the top percentage of fastest times.
As in, you could do many S ranks in a group while not meeting the required times to be abducted, and then start a solo TA and be abducted.
But then, how would the game know what your solo TA time is if you haven't done it?
Perhaps not completing a solo TA counts as an average time of 0.
I think that's possible, knowing SEGA.

Alternatively, it could be a set number of players instead of a percentage.
If there are only 9000 people doing solo TA and the limit is 10000 players, then you could still get abducted, even if you haven't even completed a solo TA.
That might also explain why it's rarer now, because more people are doing TA now than before.

Just a theory, anyway.

I want to update my clones, but haven't been abducted for over 6 months. Tried many times, too. Always S rank TA.
I probably haven't been abducted because I essentially duo it, but with 2 of my alts idling in the ship.
That counts as 4, but our times are only as fast as duos.
I suppose I could just leave the alts out, but that'd be a waste of TACO money.

[Sandmind]

I got abducted a good amount of time, twice in one evening at least once.

I seriously doubt it's time related, but what I do know is that darker den show up at random AND if someone completed it recently in the party, them still being on cooldown is an instant 0% chance to get abducted.

[strikerhunter]

My theory is, remember when they said it would only abduct the most elite of ARKS?
I suspect that you are required to be within a small top percentage of players with the quickest TA times to qualify for abduction.
It likely separates the TA times based on number of party members. That'd explain why it happens to solo much more often, because there probably aren't as many people with crazy solo times.
I think abduction used to happen more often for larger groups because not many people were blazing through TAs back then.
The top times also explains why you never see clones in crappy gear. They are always decked out, because good gear is required to achieve good times.

For example, if the top 15% of 4-person groups constantly complete TAs within 3 minutes, and your 4-person group's average is longer than 3 minutes, you will never get abducted.
On the other hand, if the top 15% of players soloing TA have an average completion time of within 12 minutes, and your average is 11 minutes, then you have a chance to get abducted.
In other words, the faster that the top players complete TA, the less chance the rest of us will ever see abduction.
Especially moreso with people spamming multiple dashes and switching weapons, which I'm sure was much less common before.

Just a theory, anyway.

I want to update my clones, but haven't been abducted for over 6 months. Tried many times, too. Always S rank TA.
I probably haven't been abducted because I essentially duo it, but with 2 of my alts idling in the ship.
That counts as 4, but our times are only as fast as duos.
I suppose I could just leave the alts out, but that'd be a waste of TACO money.


No. It's far too unfair to allow contents just for "elites".

As said before, it's all random. Heck if you want, I can disprove your theory.


I got abducted a good amount of time, twice in one evening at least once.

I seriously doubt it's time related, but what I do know is that darker den show up at random AND if someone completed it recently in the party, them still being on cooldown is an instant 0% chance to get abducted.

There was a rumor about a 3 day cooldown but I had a 3-in-a-row DD experience so I rule that out.

As I just said before editing since post was crossed, ^ ^ ^ It's all random.

[Coatl]

I once completed a Den and then got Den'd again right after I started the next TA. The whole 3-day cooldown is a myth if anything.

[Z-0]

that "elite" thing is probably not true because where are my 10 back-to-back dens?

(that being said I usually get den'd once every 2 or 3 days, usually a bit longer if unlucky)


No. It's far too unfair to allow contents just for "elites".
I disagree because people should have some sort of goal to work towards. I disagree with it being "elites" so to speak, but what's wrong with trying to push people to try their best?

[Bellion]

Completed on the same character twice? Cooldown is probably not 3 days or anything, but I've never gotten abducted on the same character twice in a day if I completed it once. I've gotten all 3 of my characters abducted on the same day before, but that's about it :|

[TaigaUC]

I updated my theory to explain some other possibilities.

Anyway, if I'm not mistaken, it was SEGA who said abductions only occur for the most elite of ARKS.
Even if my theory is incorrect, going by what they said, they're probably using some kind of system that pertains to elitist selection in some way.

It'd also explain why they don't want to tell us how it works, because people would just give up if they knew they had no chance.
I know it's "too unfair", but a lot of this game is unfair. I don't think that "unfair" alone is an adequate reason for dismissing the entire theory.
I wouldn't dismiss a theory based on whether I feel that it's unfair. If it's possible, then it's still a valid theory.

You can say it's just random, but that doesn't explain things like why everyone seems to get abducted much more often in solo, in a row, while doing large group TAs for a year and never seeing it.
The random likely isn't THAT random. It can still be random while being influenced by set factors.

Anyway, if you want to test it out, try doing TAs with fast times, and with varying numbers of group members.
I'm too lazy to test it extensively myself.

I don't mind if you disprove my theory, I just want to know how it works so I can get abducted.
I even check the JP wiki from time to time to see if anyone's figured it out yet, but they haven't.
Just remember that if you find do find something that seemingly invalidates the theory, there may be other explanations or layers of systems that we haven't thought of.
For example, stuff like "it's based on party leader", or perhaps that the entire theory only factors into the chance of abduction instead of simply locking out the non-elitists.

[strikerhunter]

I disagree because people should have some sort of goal to work towards. I disagree with it being "elites" so to speak, but what's wrong with trying to push people to try their best?

There's nothing wrong to that, really I mean it.

But restricting it to only those with those best high scoring timers is just bad in my opinion. Sure, yea it pushes players to do better to get that content but you have to look at the bigger picture though. Not everyone will be in that "elite" status or have that fast timer. So in this case if the theory were to be true, casual players will never likely see DD, and "new" players that entered VH TAs will likely never see DD for a very very very very long time.

That's as far as I'll go because I wouldn't want to mention all of the other negative aspects of doing so.

[Evangelion X.XX]

I would like to add that I'm by no means a "top-tier-flashy-expert" that can do all sorts of dash-cancelling/triple-dashing in order to minimize time in TA's--I'm just your average player with average skills who takes his sweet time in TA's often getting A Ranks on VH solo. In spite of that though, I still got abducted. So may be conditions for getting abducted doesn't really depend on being an "elite" but on something if else, that is, if it totally isn't a random phenomenon.

[TaigaUC]

It's not really a matter of what we believe is fair or whether we agree or disagree.
I don't like that kind of system at all. I also completely despise random number generation in virtually any form.

My point is, if SEGA is using such a system, they likely have a reason for it.
We can only speculate what their reasoning may be, and it might be a stupid reason.

For example, they may have prioritized "clones should be tough, so only the elite should be abducted" over "everyone should have a chance to be abducted."
I don't think they've designed the game with the utmost care for fair accessibility. It's a lot easier to throw together unfair systems than to think things out and balance them fairly.

[strikerhunter]

I updated my theory to explain some other possibilities.

Anyway, if I'm not mistaken, it was SEGA who said abductions only occur for the most elite of ARKS.
Even if my theory is incorrect, going by what they said, they're probably using some kind of system that pertains to elitist selection in some way.

It'd also explain why they don't want to tell us how it works, because people would just give up if they knew they had no chance.
I know it's "too unfair", but a lot of this game is unfair. I don't think that "unfair" alone is an adequate reason for dismissing the entire theory.
I wouldn't dismiss a theory based on whether I feel that it's unfair. If it's possible, then it's still a valid theory.

Anyway, if you want to test it out, try doing TAs with fast times, and with varying numbers of group members.
I'm too lazy to test it extensively myself.

I don't mind if you disprove my theory, I just want to know how it works so I can get abducted.
I even check the JP wiki from time to time to see if anyone's figured it out yet, but they haven't.

Me leads to disprove your theory:

-I've done DD with my team only whom all VH TA in groups only and we normally finish all TAs 10-15mins each whereas comparing to those with 2-8mins record and yet I had been abducted 8 times with 3 back-to-back as said before.

-When Sega said elitist, they where probably meaning towards players that are in VH levels aka close to current endgame.

-There are several friends I know that runs TA in groups hitting 5-8min TA runs and had never gotten DD or at least 1 and never again.

Although the only portion I can't disprove is:


You can say it's just random, but that doesn't explain things like why everyone seems to get abducted much more often in solo, in a row, while doing large group TAs for a year and never seeing it.
The random likely isn't THAT random. It can still be random while being influenced by set factors.

Primarily I can't disprove this because
1. I don't ever solo VH TA.
2. Unknown factor is not known.

[Sandmind]

I once completed a Den and then got Den'd again right after I started the next TA. The whole 3-day cooldown is a myth if anything.

Thanks for the correction with actual experience on the matter. The one time I got Den'ed twice on the same evening, we had failed the 1st and ditched the second. Speaking of which, it had been the 1st time the 4 of us had done den, freshly started doing VH taco in their mid 40s with varying level of skill/gear/knowledge, so Sega's definition of "elite" is [self-censored]. :rolleyes:

[strikerhunter]

Thanks for the correction with actual experience on the matter. The one time I got Den'ed twice on the same evening, we had failed the 1st and ditched the second. Speaking of which, it had been the 1st time the 4 of us had done den, freshly started doing VH taco in their mid 40s with varying level of skill/gear/knowledge, so Sega's definition of "elite" is [self-censored]. :rolleyes:

As I said in the last post of the previous page: I honestly think that when Sega meant by "elite" I really honestly think they meant towards VH level players (40+) since they are closing in on the current endgame rather than towards records and skills.

[Sandmind]

[Just me being lazy and not editing my own post that got ninja'ed multiple time while I was being my slow typing self.]

But yeah, I agree that by elite, they must had implied the current top difficulty mode... speaking of which, I'm curious to see what will happen to darker den once the 4th difficulty come out this fall. Keep the old for VH + updated/improved version for SuperVH? Or remove the VH one after it got changed to SVH? Or simply no upgrade?

[strikerhunter]

[Just me being lazy and not editing my own post that got ninja'ed multiple time while I was being my slow typing self.]

But yeah, I agree that by elite, they must had implied the current top difficulty mode... speaking of which, I'm curious to see what will happen to darker den once the 4th difficulty come out this fall. Keep the old for VH + updated/improved version for SuperVH? Or remove the VH one after it got changed to SVH? Or simply no upgrade?

It's just going to be another difficulty to select on the mission select screen, so you'll likely get 4 choices now. Now what bothers me most is, "Are they going to make SVH TACOs?".
As towards DD, think it'll scale if SVH TACOs are introduced. So VH level DD from VH TAs and SVH DD from SVH TACOs (difference would probably just be the loot tables).

-off topic- I get the feeling that we will likely be seeing a Lilipa II TA by that time.

[Sandmind]

Scaling for SVH is the most likely, but more than the drop table, I believe sega mentionned AI's change for SVH, no? So there would be that too, depending of how much change it is.

And I'm already expecting Lilipa II to come out after the 3rd region does. Seeing how the 1st TA on each planet is on the technical side and the 2nd for nab and amduscia was more of the "boss rush" type, I'm expecting the same thread to keep going. Which mean Vopar's 1st TA would be after the "seabed" lauch early this winter would also be of the puzzle type.

Edit: About TA for SVH, it's true that simply getting new VH TA might bring change with the extra income, so a whole new difficulty would probably be 150k by TACO.