Drop rate, player shop...

[Zenobia]

lol guess someone is pissed :x
chill lol
anyway that made u prompt for more stuff that he might not know :p
so i guess it's a good thing lol
and dont be offended lol
i have nothing against wat u said .
just clarifying things .everyone is once a newbie ,these are some stuff i come across which i didn't know back then too.
*offers a friendly handshake*

Yeah my bad its just sega's way of making things not so easy to get then again I never buy rares anyway cause I can't have that sense of justification to say I ACTUALLY FOUND IT!

I look at people who buy em as lazy man terms, but ofc the decent argument against me you can have is lol@RNG.

[NintenJon25]

Oh yeah, if only these didn't take premium to trade, we would all be running around with em. Yup.
[SPOILER-BOX]http://i.imgur.com/TKE7iVF.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/cmbX78n.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/lJpDotK.jpg[/SPOILER-BOX]
Supply and demand.

If you didn't HAVE to have Premium to access all of that, then yes, the economy of the game would be screwed up. You wouldn't be seeing digits like that at all.

Do you not understand how one small change can affect an entire game's economy (heck, this has to deal with real life too with businesses, nations, even land upkeep) can completely destroy the economy in just a little over a year?

People would just be farming meseta and buy the items. Here, the difference is that people still need to farm meseta, but they also need Premium to access those items, so it adds a much needed barrier to keep the game's economy stable for the years to come.


Yeah my bad its just sega's way of making things not so easy to get then again I never buy rares anyway cause I can't have that sense of justification to say I ACTUALLY FOUND IT!

I look at people who buy em as lazy man terms, but ofc the decent argument against me you can have is lol@RNG.

Same.

In the original PSO, I would barely trade with anyone. I much preferred just having multiple characters with different Section IDs that could find the items they needed. It is far more gratifying than just buying something that's right in front of your face.

The good part is that we don't need to worry about Section IDs anymore on PSO2.

[UnLucky]

If you didn't HAVE to have Premium to access all of that, then yes, the economy of the game would be screwed up. You wouldn't be seeing digits like that at all.

Do you not understand how one small change can affect an entire game's economy (heck, this has to deal with real life too with businesses, nations, even land upkeep) can completely destroy the economy in just a little over a year?
Yup, without a free market, all those super rares would be as cheap as these babies!
[SPOILER-BOX]http://i.imgur.com/k8VrmPS.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/y308NzL.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/wjESnCA.jpg[/SPOILER-BOX]
Oh, wait, uh
[SPOILER-BOX]http://i.imgur.com/0MgV6oa.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/iRNunox.jpg[/SPOILER-BOX]
Oops, economy!

[ZER0 DX]

The good part is that we don't need to worry about Section IDs anymore on PSO2.

Yeah, you have to worry about the game's near non-existent drop rates on absolutely anything that's worthwhile now.

[Yutaka20]

If you didn't HAVE to have Premium to access all of that, then yes, the economy of the game would be screwed up. You wouldn't be seeing digits like that at all.

Do you not understand how one small change can affect an entire game's economy (heck, this has to deal with real life too with businesses, nations, even land upkeep) can completely destroy the economy in just a little over a year?

People would just be farming meseta and buy the items. Here, the difference is that people still need to farm meseta, but they also need Premium to access those items, so it adds a much needed barrier to keep the game's economy stable for the years to come.



Same.

In the original PSO, I would barely trade with anyone. I much preferred just having multiple characters with different Section IDs that could find the items they needed. It is far more gratifying than just buying something that's right in front of your face.

The good part is that we don't need to worry about Section IDs anymore on PSO2.

lol my heart bleeds for u my friend.
u are most probably not from ship 2 :X (lol donno why :X gives u a :x face...)
the economy of the rest of the ships are crazily expensive lol
maybe due to the lack of farmers or ppl not willing to do taco ,i donno but that 10* gun...
is worth like 1m + in our ship xD
cos no one really uses it much(i might be wrong >< so dont judge me D: )
but yea economy in ship 2 <3

[Enforcer MKV]

[SPOILER-BOX]
http://i.imgur.com/iRNunox.jpg[/SPOILER-BOX]

Seeing the Vardha arm units going for 1k upsets me deep down....

It took me over 5 months to find one. Found the legs and back in about 2 weeks. Ugh, f*cking Sega...

[IzzyData]

if the game's trade shops just ran without any set restrictions in place, then the economy of the game itself would go to all hell and we would all be getting bored sick of the game because we would all have very high-level gear at an early stage of the game.

It's known as supply vs. demand.

The way I see it is just superficial limitations instead of real game mechanics that make sense. It really has nothing to do with supply and demand. They are just making the demand not there by making it forcing you to give them money first.

Really the whole concept of the game is flawed. Instead of making it actually difficult to get good items by defeating difficult bosses they have the entire game be incredibly easy but then make the items absurdly rare so that you can't actually work towards improving your character without simply getting lucky.

If they had a more perfected game model that involved building a good party with a healer and support and tank in order to take down difficult bosses to get likely, but difficult drops then there would be no need for any superficial limitations on the market.

I also find it kind of disgusting that trading is just disabled.

[strikerhunter]

Seeing the Vardha arm units going for 1k upsets me deep down....

It took me over 5 months to find one. Found the legs and back in about 2 weeks. Ugh, f*cking Sega...

His EQ drops them like crazy. Had a friend that pulled all 3 parts with mutation, soul, and vicculm. Whereas I pulled all 3 in the 20min time his EQ showed up.

Now it's common to see Vadhra set go for 1k, 4+ affix with soul/mutation/vicculm/any other affixes can go for above 300k depending on affix. I remember selling 2 6 affixed Vadhra set before for nearly 1 mil each ( the 3 common affix from EQ, Ability III, Shoot II, and another affix which I forgot)

Although I wonder why we haven't seen any new boss drop units as of lately, last one was from Chrome and Haze Draal and that was like 4 or 5 months ago. Not counting 11*units because they are hard as **** to grind for.



The way I see it is just superficial limitations instead of real game mechanics that make sense. It really has nothing to do with supply and demand. They are just making the demand not there by making it forcing you to give them money first.

Really the whole concept of the game is flawed. Instead of making it actually difficult to get good items by defeating difficult bosses they have the entire game be incredibly easy but then make the items absurdly rare so that you can't actually work towards improving your character without simply getting lucky.

I also find it kind of disgusting that trading is just disabled.

The point of restricting players to be able to buy 10*s is to encourage them to buy premium. That's what most of the game really is about, encouraging players to go premium by having those premium space in each blocks, My Shop, My Room, 10* buying, etc. but mainly towards the shop and 10*s though.

Just limiting players from even putting their things in the market is already tempting them to buy AC.

This is SoJ's tactic to make $$$$$$, they tempt players to buy AC for whatever it is, premium to shop to salon passes to scratches.



If they had a more perfected game model that involved building a good party with a healer and support and tank in order to take down difficult bosses to get likely, but difficult drops then there would be no need for any superficial limitations on the market.

Define perfected.
If a game is designed more towards grouping, then a soloer(s) will end up disliking it. Sure, you work hard and you deserve good rewards for it but not all players are groupers and some solo. LoL like anyone hardly solos in PSO2 at cap though.

I'll just leave this note here: Group play and solo play hardly affects the market because A.) It'll still be farmed out to lower it's price and B.) it's about the drop chances overall.

[Yutaka20]

Seeing the Vardha arm units going for 1k upsets me deep down....

It took me over 5 months to find one. Found the legs and back in about 2 weeks. Ugh, f*cking Sega...

lol back then big vadha is ever so common of a eq that a lot of ppl often get them very easily
now vadha is a less common eq.
but it's not restricted to just 5 runs anymore.
i practically an get 3-8 units droppping for me x.x


The way I see it is just superficial limitations instead of real game mechanics that make sense. It really has nothing to do with supply and demand. They are just making the demand not there by making it forcing you to give them money first.

Really the whole concept of the game is flawed. Instead of making it actually difficult to get good items by defeating difficult bosses they have the entire game be incredibly easy but then make the items absurdly rare so that you can't actually work towards improving your character without simply getting lucky.

If they had a more perfected game model that involved building a good party with a healer and support and tank in order to take down difficult bosses to get likely, but difficult drops then there would be no need for any superficial limitations on the market.

I also find it kind of disgusting that trading is just disabled.

well it's part of the marketing tactic to get u to be a premium user.
u can still be strong ,not using 10* gears,just not uber strong that's all
and wat game is fun when u just simply get all the strong gears easily lol
games like these "easy gain" are the ones with the most quitter in the short period of time.and trust me when i say that i mean it lol.

i rather sega's way of restriction. even if it's a profit like tactic,the logic behind it still follow for the sake of gaming rather then profit driven.
or would u rather have a company that keep asking u to buy protection against failure and sells u godly items that only can be gain from paying? ;x

[Enforcer MKV]

His EQ drops them like crazy. Had a friend that pulled all 3 parts with mutation, soul, and vicculm. Whereas I pulled all 3 in the 20min time his EQ showed up.

Now it's common to see Vadhra set go for 1k, 4+ affix with soul/mutation/vicculm/any other affixes can go for above 300k depending on affix. I remember selling 2 6 affixed Vadhra set before for nearly 1 mil each ( the 3 common affix from EQ, Ability III, Shoot II, and another affix which I forgot)

Although I wonder why we haven't seen any new boss drop units as of lately, last one was from Chrome and Haze Draal and that was like 4 or 5 months ago. Not counting 11*units because they are hard as **** to grind for.

It's funny how peeps say that. I ran the EQ. I've ran everything that has him. I have plenty of backs and legs. But those damned arm units...I've burned rare boosters and gotten both the leg and back from one crystal multiple times. But I've only ever gotten one arm unit. Ever. Eh, such is life, I suppose.

[IzzyData]

This is SoJ's tactic to make $$$$$$, they tempt players to buy AC for whatever it is, premium to shop to salon passes to scratches.

I think this method is just a little to underhanded. It's one thing to add perks to a premium user account, but it is another to remove core features from a game and then only give them back if you pay. If you want to make a good f2p model you should think of more tempting additional features that don't effect your core gameplay but people still might want.

[strikerhunter]

It's funny how peeps say that. I ran the EQ. I've ran everything that has him. I have plenty of backs and legs. But those damned arm units...I've burned rare boosters and gotten both the leg and back from one crystal multiple times. But I've only ever gotten one arm unit. Ever. Eh, such is life, I suppose.

That's just bad luck with the RNG I say, I normally get more arms than the other two pieces.


I think this method is just a little to underhanded. It's one thing to add perks to a premium user account, but it is another to remove core features from a game and then only give them back if you pay.

Meh, you can say that. I prefer saying that the method wasn't just well thought out.



If you want to make a good f2p model you should think of more tempting additional features that don't effect your core gameplay but people still might want.

From past experience with other F2Ps games, BETAs before the next big update/expansions are usually the tactics that hypes players to either go premium or just strait up buy it.
Overall, IMO for most f2p, most players subscribe or buy premium just to get those special perks whether it's hyped or not.

[Yutaka20]

I think this method is just a little to underhanded. It's one thing to add perks to a premium user account, but it is another to remove core features from a game and then only give them back if you pay. If you want to make a good f2p model you should think of more tempting additional features that don't effect your core gameplay but people still might want.

lol sorry i dont wanna make u feel sad over anything but do u know wat is f2p
i 100% am sure u know wat p2p meant pay to play .
where game host are paid by users to support the game.

but how about f2p? how are they gonna support the game?
understand that and u will understand the true meaning of f2p
and i would say , pso2 f2p is going the right way.
really i dont see why u are complaining about not being about to get ur hands on 10*
if u cant buy them ,keep farming then lol
u will eventually get it.
that's the point of mmo.if u want 100% sure drop, go play wow lol
cos u are kinda having wow's logic now D:
oh wait u can't cos it's p2p!

[MetalDude]

Drop rates are shit, man. PSO1 (GCN onward mind you) didn't have it this terrible. But you're right, I know of plenty of people who ended up finding rares they spent weeks hunting several months past their usefulness so they do eventually find them ._.

[IzzyData]

lol sorry i dont wanna make u feel sad over anything but do u know wat is f2p
i 100% am sure u know wat p2p meant pay to play .
where game host are paid by users to support the game.

but how about f2p? how are they gonna support the game?
understand that and u will understand the true meaning of f2p
and i would say , pso2 f2p is going the right way.
really i dont see why u are complaining about not being about to get ur hands on 10*
if u cant buy them ,keep farming then lol
u will eventually get it.
that's the point of mmo.if u want 100% sure drop, go play wow lol
cos u are kinda having wow's logic now D:
oh wait u can't cos it's p2p!

There is something wrong with you. I feel like you didn't even read my post.

[Yutaka20]

Drop rates are shit, man. PSO1 (GCN onward mind you) didn't have it this terrible. But you're right, I know of plenty of people who ended up finding rares they spent weeks hunting several months past their usefulness so they do eventually find them ._.

yea i still remember back then when i was a nub.
i did the same complain to my team.
and a rare rod dropped to me.
the joy i felt that time was totally unexplainable .
that is why i really don't mind not being able to buy rares.
cos really ,even if u wanna buy rare u will still need another 10* to exchange for the ticket.and loads of money (which isnt hard to gather)

but it's more for feeeling u can get when u actually find a 10*
i mean nowsadaysi just go "oh a 10*? uhm... but i dont really need that "
lol and that will happen to anyone who often find rare as well :X

[jooozek]

i dont get a hard from finding some shitty reskin with 50 more attack

[Yutaka20]

i dont get a hard from finding some shitty reskin with 50 more attack

not too sure wat u are trying to say D:
but some of the items appear to only +50 S/R/T atk at a +0 state .but when u +10 them,they tend to really make a big diff lol

[MetalDude]

Err duh, that's what he means. Most pyroxenes heavily outclass any ridiculously hard to find 10* when at 50 element. Swords especially are better off since the pyroxenes have really nice potentials. It's a wonder why anyone would even bother hunting all of except some very particular weapons.

[Yutaka20]

Err duh, that's what he means. Most pyroxenes heavily outclass any ridiculously hard to find 10* when at 50 element. Swords especially are better off since the pyroxenes have really nice potentials. It's a wonder why anyone would even bother hunting all of except some very particular weapons.

lol like i mention so many times in this tread ;x
whiner just wanna whine becos they aren't able to get a 10* from mob whereas everyone is bragging or cheering over their luck :3

[MetalDude]

I don't think you're actually attempting to read anything.

[Yutaka20]

I don't think you're actually attempting to read anything.

my bad i misread ur last sentence,that's wat happen when u are alt tabbing too much while at work xD
err welll some weapon are still kinda stronger then the pyroxenes in terms of dmg
(i hope i am on the right track,u are referring to the weapons from pyroxenes shop right?)
once they are +10 but other then that ,i am guessing ppl just want something u can get from bosses while grinding.
and there are players who arent really into doing AQ for those gears

[Coatl]

I sort of wish you weren't able to buy *10s but the drop rates would be like x10 or even x100 better than what they are now. No one farms for their rares, they just save enough money and buy them.

[Yutaka20]

I sort of wish you weren't able to buy *10s but the drop rates would be like x10 or even x100 better than what they are now. No one farms for their rares, they just save enough money and buy them.

well if u are a prem user,saving money would be the better choice.
it works both ways.
u have a part of the community farming and grinding,while the other part earning money for the gears.
it's kinda balancing out things.
no issue there my friend :3
not everyone having the time to farm for stuff,
but at least u know u can earn a wage
by doing taco to supply ur needs with money,
which in return, is needed by the seller
to buy player items like fashion/costumes or even grinding/affixing

[NintenJon25]

The way I see it is just superficial limitations instead of real game mechanics that make sense. It really has nothing to do with supply and demand. They are just making the demand not there by making it forcing you to give them money first.

Contradictions, much?


Really the whole concept of the game is flawed. Instead of making it actually difficult to get good items by defeating difficult bosses they have the entire game be incredibly easy but then make the items absurdly rare so that you can't actually work towards improving your character without simply getting lucky.

It's called grinding, and it's a mechanic that has been used since the original Phantasy Star game back on the Master System. You work hard for what you get---you're not supposed to just have things handed down to you on a silver platter. That way, when you do get it, you feel like you actually accomplished something.

The concept of the game being flawed is your personal opinion, so no one can hold you against that.

However, I do want to point out to you that this game is a massive, online, free-to-play Action-RPG. How else do you expect SEGA to make a profit off of PSO2 or pay to keep their servers running and/or have continuous updates to the game? They gotta set the bar somewhere, and I think (meaning that this is my opinion) the 10* weapons in shops was the perfect place to set it.

Just so you know, last I checked we can still beat this game and level our classes to max, even find those same 10* weapons in the shops, use certain features of the salon, still have a decent amount of storage space, and can have up to 2-3 characters on one account before a fee is charged...ALL FOR FREE.

How in the WORLD is that not fair? Did you really expect not to ever have to fork out a dime over anything in this game?!


If they had a more perfected game model that involved building a good party with a healer and support and tank in order to take down difficult bosses to get likely, but difficult drops then there would be no need for any superficial limitations on the market.

Superficial limitations? You think that spending real money to even keep the game afloat is superficial when you've already been playing the game for free from the very start? With that type of logic, you clearly think that SEGA just has PSO2 running on auto-pilot.


I also find it kind of disgusting that trading is just disabled.

As said previously, gotta set the bar somewhere. Would you like that bar to be at a Lv. 30 and Hard Mode cap instead? Yeah, thought so. >_>

[MetalDude]

Again, the rates are simply awful compared to previous games though. You're missing that entirely. "Setting the bar" doesn't excuse shitty design.

[UnLucky]

It's funny cause NintenJon25 isn't trolling.

[blace]

There is no drop rate. There is simply RNG. That is all.

[MetalDude]

The idea of grinding or hunting anything in this game that doesn't involve pyroxenes/spellstones is extremely impractical. You can't always find the enemy you're looking for (seriously, good luck with rare enemy hunting) and the drop rates are criminally bad. The best idea is to simply not hunt it and just hope you get stupid lucky. It's pretty dumb.

[gigawuts]

I found one or more 10*s every day for over a week straight, ending a few days ago, and I felt absolutely zero pleasure for each rare.

It is such an absurdly random and unlikely event to find a 10*. Farming does seemingly nothing, despite the logic that it should. The game will grace you with that rainbow RARE DROP popup when it damn well feels like it, not sooner and not later.

I'm nearly 99% convinced that the game just has a list of rares that you can find at any given time, then changes that list on a schedule. Every day? Every three days? I have no idea. I just know that I've hunted literally thousands of Gwanahdas, killing literally hundreds of Gwanahda Neros, and did not come up with a demo comet. Yet when I take a break from that and go into tundra AQ when it comes out? Two spike sluggers in 2 hours, a third two days later. Yeah.

They never ever, not even once, said that this game uses droprates like PSU or PSO1 did. Not once is it ever stated. We all just assumed. Given that it's F2P, I have zero doubts that they implemented a control on hunting items to draw out play times.

[blace]

Which is why I said the above.

There is no drop rate. There is simply RNG. That is all.

[gigawuts]

Yup.

I have pretty full confidence that the drops you're most likely to find are RNG-based, then you churn through the RNG to actually find them. You are not made aware of what you're likely to find, nor when it changes. Maybe it changes when you find a rare, maybe it changes every day or two, maybe both. I just don't believe for even a second that it's random in the PSU and PSO1 style.

[blace]

PSO had its section ID system to determine what would drop and PSU was reliant on the class you were for the drop. Whereas we get a whole database of drops with a claimed higher "chance-to-drop-for-our-class" type system. I haven't done VH for long, but spread it out on 3 characters, not a single 10* in drops.

[UnLucky]

Hidden section IDs

[MetalDude]

Wait.

Everyone is assigned Pinkal by default.

It explains the Mace of Adamans from Falz.

[gigawuts]

The drops themselves aren't what I'm referring to - the fact that everything had a persistent, unchanging chance to drop is.

[blace]

Well, that's RNG. Not much else to add to that anyway with near non-existent rates and relying entirely on luck.

[gigawuts]

No, this isn't just plain "RNG." Random is random to a point. The streaks you observe in this game are so outrageous that either Sega is using one of the absolute worst RNGs ever implemented in an MMO or it was specifically designed to behave this way.

[blace]

Early game it works to an extent with drops begrudgingly low. Late game material is absurd and luck reliant that it produces little to zero results.

I probably should've rephrased that in my last post.

[gigawuts]

No, I'm aware. This does not help when you have a streak of 17 consecutive 0 loss protected failures on a 9->10 grind, or exactly as many failures for soul & power III transfer for a 30% success rate each.

The odds of these streaks are so astronomically low that they should be virtually impossible to happen unto repeatedly in normal gameplay, yet almost everyone can tell you about a similar experience. Good RNGs are designed specifically to avoid streaks, yet they're entirely common and even expected in this game.

Which leads back to my original conclusion: This game IS designed to behave this way, and with no documentation or explanation we have no reason to believe anything any way besides what the evidence itself indicates.

[jooozek]

GUYS LETS WAIT TILL NEW DIFFICULTY IM SURE IT WILL GET BETTER

[NintenJon25]

Wait.

Everyone is assigned Pinkal by default.

It explains the Mace of Adamans from Falz.

Oh gawd. XD


No, I'm aware. This does not help when you have a streak of 17 consecutive 0 loss protected failures on a 9->10 grind, or exactly as many failures for soul & power III transfer for a 30% success rate each.

The odds of these streaks are so astronomically low that they should be virtually impossible to happen unto repeatedly in normal gameplay, yet almost everyone can tell you about a similar experience. Good RNGs are designed specifically to avoid streaks, yet they're entirely common and even expected in this game.

Which leads back to my original conclusion: This game IS designed to behave this way, and with no documentation or explanation we have no reason to believe anything any way besides what the evidence itself indicates.

Exactly.

The game itself is designed around the F2P mechanic, so SEGA JP has created this insanely low drop-rate to encourage trading; thus people would buy Premium to get a pass. As you said, though, we still have no idea how these drops are really carried out. I just think their tables are screwed up for the time being. It's either that or they are really hitting the bottom of the barrel with their rates because, as we all know already by this point, SEGA JP wants to push more reasons to get Premium than not.

Edit: So it's clear, I don't agree with SEGA doing this, either. It's just plain wrong---simple as that. While some of these rares are entirely optional to have, those same rare items are what signifies your commitment to the game itself. Having such inane, tepid drop rates for anything, whether they want to push Premium or not, could end up backfiring sooner than later. I think they need to experiment with some new boosters and make their effects stronger as well. Perhaps a booster for rare enemy encounters?

All I know is that if an item is designated to drop 1/1000 times you kill [X Rare Monster], then using something like a Rare Drop Booster +250% would only make that 2.5/1000. SEGA needs to at least find a way to meet us at a compromise that way they can still have trades being active while we also have a better chance at finding these rares that are, for all intensive purposes, broken drops. :/


GUYS LETS WAIT TILL NEW DIFFICULTY IM SURE IT WILL GET BETTER

Haha. Forgot about that when typing my reply.

You're absolutely correct. The new Super Very Hard difficulty should make finding these rares much easier. Hopefully, there'll be an Ultimate difficulty after that as well. :)

[gigawuts]

Not entirely.

Very hard launched with these rates, and it took many months for them to finally add 10* purchase passes.

[blace]

Since launch we had these rates. I still remember trying to affix my gear with a 90% chance on a soul to having Power II and Poison I.

[jooozek]

Haha. Forgot about that when typing my reply.

You're absolutely correct. The new Super Very Hard difficulty should make finding these rares much easier. Hopefully, there'll be an Ultimate difficulty after that as well. :)
i thought the sarcasm wouldn't fly past people since i wrote it in caps but seems like it isn't the case

[UnLucky]

Super Very Hard should make all Very Hard rares completely worthless with how often they drop.

If Very Hard was any indication.

But any new stuff? Haha

Though yeah, that lv60 Falz was absolutely no different from lv50 in terms of drop frequency.

[NintenJon25]

GUYS LETS WAIT TILL NEW DIFFICULTY IM SURE IT WILL GET BETTER


Not new to you, maybe. It seems like Nintenjon hadn't fully thought through the subject, which sparked a brief discussion and explanation of reasoning.

Which is what I garner the point of a forum is - to discuss things.

Basically.

I'm still new to Phantasy Star Online 2 (only started a couple weeks ago), but I've played every Phantasy Star game since the original, excluding only Universe and the Portable 1/2. I still have my hopes up that SEGA does SOMETHING to fix those ridiculous rates, though. :/

[blace]

Like I said last page, the rates were there since launch. Doubt they'll rebalance them to conform with their cash flow from rare drop boosters.