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suzaku0zero0
Aug 24, 2013, 04:04 AM
any news on how much attribute enhancement if I use same weapon type, rarity but different name (Assuming 30 of same element)?

e.g. a 36 light dragon slayer, using 30 light Ruin Gloam as material, how much more light will dragon slayer get?

Sandmind
Aug 24, 2013, 04:25 AM
Can only boost using a same named weapon. For the rarer 10* or above, those 5% attribute boosting AC item costing a good 3mil are pretty much a must(still require a weapon to sacrifice).

I think I once readed about if you're using a fooder with same element and at least 30%, you could get +3 instead of +1. If that is right, then those pyroxene weapon aren't too difficult to max out.

And for futur questions, I would highly recommend using the Quick Question (http://www.pso-world.com/forums/showthread.php?t=195866) thread in the future.

Smithee
Aug 24, 2013, 04:30 AM
Can only boost using a same named weapon. For the rarer 10* or above, those 5% attribute boosting AC item costing a good 3mil are pretty much a must(still require a weapon to sacrifice).

I think I once readed about if you're using a fooder with same element and at least 30%, you could get +3 instead of +1. If that is right, then those pyroxene weapon aren't too difficult to max out.

And for futur questions, I would highly recommend using the Quick Question (http://www.pso-world.com/forums/showthread.php?t=195866) thread in the future.

You don't know what he's talking about and you're wrong. In two weeks we are getting a new system where you can use The Same Type and rarity to grind attribute.

Kondibon
Aug 24, 2013, 04:31 AM
Can only boost using a same named weapon. For the rarer 10* or above, those 5% attribute boosting AC item costing a good 3mil are pretty much a must(still require a weapon to sacrifice).

I think I once readed about if you're using a fooder with same element and at least 30%, you could get +3 instead of +1. If that is right, then those pyroxene weapon aren't too difficult to max out.

And for futur questions, I would highly recommend using the Quick Question (http://www.pso-world.com/forums/showthread.php?t=195866) thread in the future.

He's talking about after the update.

@OP: This was only just announced, I don't think anyone here would know how much.

Sandmind
Aug 24, 2013, 05:28 AM
Well, to be honest, I never paid much attention to element grinding. I mostly played force. :-?

Nor do I check bumped everyday for that matter.

http://bumped.org/psublog/the-third-lillipa-field-arrives-september-4th-2013/ That was only posted yesterday.

Element Grinding Adjustments

Attribute Grinding will receive the following changes.

You can now use weapons of the same type and rarity for elemental grinding.
Using the same weapon will have increased elemental grinding values.
Using the same weapon and same element further increases the elemental grinding values.
Adjusted the number of synthesizers needed for elemental grinding.

I stand corrected.

On topic, no value was given on what kind of boost same weapon/element give yet.

NoiseHERO
Aug 24, 2013, 05:34 AM
I wonder if using ANY old weapon = shit rates

While same weapon = boosted rates

Or if any old weapon = original boost rates

Also kudos if they actual make using the extra rates from using same weapon WORTH IT.

milranduil
Aug 24, 2013, 05:47 AM
Even if falz launcher gave 1% per, it would still be orders of magnitude cheaper than saving up to buy 30mil Launcher Legacy's to get one to 50%. Only be worth it for something like Karakasa Jigomi or something where they lay at ~2.5mil and only if it's a very decent bonus.

Skyly HUmar
Aug 24, 2013, 07:34 AM
ooooh god this update. I think most of you are not going to agree with me here, but i think the update is going to suck. I mean, not only have we spent hundreds of millions of meseta getting our stuff to 50%, but this update kinda takes all of that and bends it over.

After this, were going to be able to get better stuff for cheaper sure, but only if we are rich or if we're extremely lucky, and were not getting any of the meseta we've already spent back. idk man, this update to me is more of a "haha, you actually put effort into the game?! naughty naughty~" than a godsend imo.

To each his own but imo this is turning the game into pay to win. Or be extremely lucky to win.

gigawuts
Aug 24, 2013, 07:51 AM
ooooh god this update. I think most of you are not going to agree with me here, but i think the update is going to suck. I mean, not only have we spent hundreds of millions of meseta getting our stuff to 50%, but this update kinda takes all of that and bends it over.

After this, were going to be able to get better stuff for cheaper sure, but only if we are rich or if we're extremely lucky, and were not getting any of the meseta we've already spent back. idk man, this update to me is more of a "haha, you actually put effort into the game?! naughty naughty~" than a godsend imo.

To each his own but imo this is turning the game into pay to win. Or be extremely lucky to win.

"we spent hundreds of millions to do this"

"now everyone can do it for cheap"

"this is pay2win!"

[spoiler-box]https://si0.twimg.com/profile_images/2727748211/c3d0981ae770f926eedf4eda7505b006.jpeg[/spoiler-box]

BIG OLAF
Aug 24, 2013, 07:53 AM
I mean, not only have we spent hundreds of millions of meseta getting our stuff to 50%

Whose fault is that? No one said you had to do that. Now it's easier and/or more accessible to other people (besides maybe upper-tier 10*s and whatnot). This update is a good thing.

Z-0
Aug 24, 2013, 08:29 AM
I don't think it's really anyone's fault, other than SEGA's, because this should've been the system from the start. By not implementing it in the first place, people got fucked over. It would've happened no matter what.

gigawuts
Aug 24, 2013, 08:34 AM
Well, yes.

They intentionally launch with very restrictive systems. You see this time and time again with every single new feature, system, or tier of gear. 10*s? Highly restricted at launch - difficult to grind, impossible to exchange, difficult to find (largely because there were so few). Then they add pyrox 10*s. Then they make grinding a smidgen easier. Then they actually improve grinding. Then they add 10* trading. Between each of these more 10*s are added of varying qualities to slowly increase the sources you can get 10*s from, often from enemies in pre-existing areas.

This is the F2P model they're using. They hold back as much as possible, to squeeze players as hard as they can get away with. When players are getting too frustrated is when they finally loosen up the features.

So yeah. Everything that costs a fuckload now? It'll be completely worthless later. This is especially easy to see with planned gear obsolescence. Are Ardillous worth as much as they used to be? No. Apply that to other features. Will your element grinding be worth as much later? No.

I'm actually surprised they've taken this long to do something to the affix system. I guess it kind of is their major cash cow after scratch, what with being the main reason scratch items are still so valuable (dem 20% boosts).

dr apocalipsis
Aug 24, 2013, 10:26 AM
And what do Forces get in return?

The way attribute works, it is only useful for melees and ranger classes. So now everyone will get a cheap boost in weapon damage except for Forces.

Doesn't look fair.

Shadowth117
Aug 24, 2013, 10:29 AM
And what do Forces get in return?

The way attribute works, it is only useful for melees and ranger classes. So now everyone will get a cheap boost in weapon damage except for Forces.

Doesn't look fair.

Its hardly a cheap boost by any means. Its still a lot of investment. Many people had these types of weapons already anyways and this simply makes it less of a hassle in the long term, which I think is a good thing.

Skyly HUmar
Aug 24, 2013, 12:15 PM
Well yeah, I am the one that spent all of the meseta to do it, but that doesnt change the fact that all that effort, time, and all those resources are now pretty much completely wasted for nothing, and its all because sega had to change the system completely half way through, and like zio said, because it was not like this from the start.

Ill be the first to admit that I personally have probably invested a little too much because of my rampant desire to max as much as possible, but cmon, i know im not the only one affected by this/the only one that has spent time making progress on my equipment only to have it blow up in my face because of one lousy update.

Coatl
Aug 24, 2013, 02:47 PM
After this, were going to be able to get better stuff for cheaper sure, but only if we are rich or if we're extremely lucky, and were not getting any of the meseta we've already spent back. idk man, this update to me is more of a "haha, you actually put effort into the game?! naughty naughty~" than a godsend imo.


I think this update is great and just what the game needed, but I understand entirely where you're coming from as well. This update made me hold back on trading in my XQ stones for an *11 weapon. Who's to say they won't lower the required stones in a future patch? If they did, it would suck for people who actually put effort into obtaining these stones prior to the patch. "Oh, you actually put effort into the game because you want to progress? Well guess what? Now we're making it x10 easier and all that effort you put into the game was just wasted!"

It doesn't feel good I tell you, and I'm sorry for those that spent 100m trying to 50 element a weapon that's now devalued tenfold because of the update in store for us.

Maninbluejumpsuit
Aug 24, 2013, 03:34 PM
If you want to blame someone, blame sega for taking so long to make this happen in the first place.

Everything about this update is good except how long it took to happen.

Almost everyone got pissed on to some extent with this update, from people who burned hundreds of millions, to people who pissed away a few dozen garbage 10* weapons on excubes/whatever chump change they're worth on the player shop, and now should scramble to AQ stone farm/hope falz would visit a little more.

Chdata
Aug 24, 2013, 03:50 PM
Well, yes.

They intentionally launch with very restrictive systems. You see this time and time again with every single new feature, system, or tier of gear. 10*s? Highly restricted at launch - difficult to grind, impossible to exchange, difficult to find (largely because there were so few). Then they add pyrox 10*s. Then they make grinding a smidgen easier. Then they actually improve grinding. Then they add 10* trading. Between each of these more 10*s are added of varying qualities to slowly increase the sources you can get 10*s from, often from enemies in pre-existing areas.

This is the F2P model they're using. They hold back as much as possible, to squeeze players as hard as they can get away with. When players are getting too frustrated is when they finally loosen up the features.

So yeah. Everything that costs a fuckload now? It'll be completely worthless later. This is especially easy to see with planned gear obsolescence. Are Ardillous worth as much as they used to be? No. Apply that to other features. Will your element grinding be worth as much later? No.

I'm actually surprised they've taken this long to do something to the affix system. I guess it kind of is their major cash cow after scratch, what with being the main reason scratch items are still so valuable (dem 20% boosts).

The way I see it, there is so much that hints to them probably making higher level content easier to obtain as time goes on. They're still increasing the level caps. Potential on grinded weapons can go up to 5, but we only have access to 3. The 'not implemented' affix levels for some affixes you can see on Cirnopedia. Potential for 8 affix weapons except with a completely negligible chance.

I feel like in a few years people will laugh at how hard 5 affixing was or getting higher than a level III affix was and people will all have 5 potential 8 affix 75 element 15star rares and there'll be areas with level 500 monsters. Equipping mags? Their stat bonuses make no difference at endgame, worthless waste of time!


(maybe that's a stretch)


As for what you spent now, you can't blame Sega for making an update that makes a system easier and more convenient for everyone after you already used the old system, that's just selfish. You can feel bad about them not being able to compensate you though.

Shinamori
Aug 24, 2013, 04:18 PM
I wonder if they'll go to 100% eventually.

Enforcer MKV
Aug 24, 2013, 04:47 PM
Well yeah, I am the one that spent all of the meseta to do it, but that doesnt change the fact that all that effort, time, and all those resources are now pretty much completely wasted for nothing, and its all because sega had to change the system completely half way through, and like zio said, because it was not like this from the start.

Ill be the first to admit that I personally have probably invested a little too much because of my rampant desire to max as much as possible, but cmon, i know im not the only one affected by this/the only one that has spent time making progress on my equipment only to have it blow up in my face because of one lousy update.

Your investment has 'not' blown up in your face. Because of the time, effort, and money you put into the game, you achieved higher percentage weapons faster than if you had waited. Nothing has been wasted, nor has it been done for nothing. Your weapons are not being reset, they are not being reverted to some earlier stage. They are staying just the way they are, and as such, you've lost nothing except for meseta, which can be gained back by either running TAs or through a shop. Everything you did up to this point was the only way to go about upgrading your element, so it is not a waste, it was the way it functioned, as the game intended.

gigawuts
Aug 24, 2013, 04:53 PM
People thinking sega will not intentionally render current optimal equipment obsolete while making previously worthless items valuable amuse me.

Xaeris
Aug 24, 2013, 04:53 PM
Systems in online RPGs get easier over time. I can't think of a single game released in the past ten years where this is not the case, F2P or otherwise. FFXI is a shell of its previous mercilessness. WoW's dual spec cost got beat down from 1k gold to...I want to say 50, but it's been so long. Star Wars Galaxes...fft, don't even get me started.

If you play online RPGs expecting the people who come after you to have to clear exactly all the same hurdles you did, you're gonna have a bad time.

Zyrusticae
Aug 24, 2013, 04:57 PM
There is one exception I can think of off the top of my head, and that's Aion. Enchanting's been as awful as it's ever been since launch (if not worse thanks to higher-grade extreme rares).

But more to the point, I have zero sympathy for someone who invested hundreds of hours into insanely maxed-out rares. You got what you paid for, so deal with it. It just seems so incredibly, ridiculously childish to get all "but what about ME?!" when everyone else who didn't have your kind of spending power benefits from the change.

Enforcer MKV
Aug 24, 2013, 04:59 PM
Systems in online RPGs get easier over time. I can't think of a single game released in the past ten years where this is not the case, F2P or otherwise. FFXI is a shell of its previous mercilessness. WoW's dual spec cost got beat down from 1k gold to...I want to say 50, but it's been so long. Star Wars Galaxes...fft, don't even get me started.

If you play online RPGs expecting the people who come after you to have to clear exactly all the same hurdles you did, you're gonna have a bad time.

WoW has to be the prime example of this considering how long it's been around, it's not even...

Okay, saying "It's not even funny." would be a complete lie.

Dnd
Aug 24, 2013, 05:03 PM
Im all for this change, it means the uber expensive rares like holy ray/dragonslayer wont get outclassed by their prox counterparts

Am I pissed because i had to burn 4 ruin charms and 3 5% attribute boosters to get my mirage to 50 element, when now all it'd get is some forest 9* prox trade-in swords and stones to get it up? hell no. I knew what i was doing when i decided to 50 element it, I had a small feeling something like this would happen sooner or later anyway.

Basiclly, stop your bitching cus you spent out more then someone else will have to in afew weeks to 50 element your weapon. Everything is more expensive at the start and EVERYTHING gets cheaper in the end, you payed more for the privilege of getting it 'first', as with everything in this game

Skyly HUmar
Aug 24, 2013, 05:07 PM
Your investment has 'not' blown up in your face. Because of the time, effort, and money you put into the game, you achieved higher percentage weapons faster than if you had waited. Nothing has been wasted, nor has it been done for nothing. Your weapons are not being reset, they are not being reverted to some earlier stage. They are staying just the way they are, and as such, you've lost nothing except for meseta, which can be gained back by either running TAs or through a shop. Everything you did up to this point was the only way to go about upgrading your element, so it is not a waste, it was the way it functioned, as the game intended.

I dont think im going to get even a 5th of that meseta back even if i had a 3 day shop and ran TA for a month. Whats bugging me is that i could have kept almost all of it.

Let me give you an example, my first 10* 50% was kagu, i bought 6 ikus for 8m, i bought 1 element booster for 5m. that was enough to get me 50% (though in retrospect, 2 boosters and 1 iku less would have been cheaper awell lol). I got lucky and afixed/grinded it for about a mil, so the total cost was more or less 54m.

Now, if this new system was in play, it would have cost me 9m total, 8m for the iku, 1m for afixing/grinding, and X number of ruin gloams from falz stones. Imo thats a kick in the face.

Xaeris
Aug 24, 2013, 05:08 PM
Right, right, Aion. I knew I was forgetting a game on my MMO gaming resume. I didn't play it for long (three months, I think), but I'm surprised enchanting is still enchanting. It was such an exercise in sheer masochism, I figured it would be one of those things they'd decide didn't appeal to a Western audience.

gigawuts
Aug 24, 2013, 05:10 PM
I dont think im going to get even a 5th of that meseta back even if i had a 3 day shop and ran TA for a month. Whats bugging me is that i could have kept almost all of it.

Let me give you an example, my first 10* 50% was kagu, i bought 6 ikus for 8m, i bought 1 element booster for 5m. that was enough to get me 50% (though in retrospect, 2 boosters and 1 iku less would have been cheaper awell lol). I got lucky and afixed/grinded it for about a mil, so the total cost was more or less 54m.

Now, if this new system was in play, it would have cost me 9m total, 8m for the iku, 1m for afixing/grinding, and X number of ruin gloams from falz stones. Imo thats a kick in the face.

Yeah, and you knew at any point in time Sega could change the whole system.

This is part and parcel of online gaming mate. Why would you ever invest an amount of money and/or time into something if you'd be upset that you lost it or it became easier to obtain?

Rule 1 of games where you can permanently lose items: Don't use what you can't afford to replace
Rule 1 of games where you can't permanently lose items: Don't invest into what you'll be upset if it's made cheaper

Skyly HUmar
Aug 24, 2013, 05:11 PM
Yeah, and you knew at any point in time Sega could change the whole system.

This is part and parcel of online gaming mate. Why would you ever invest an amount of money and/or time into something if you'd be upset that you lost it or it became easier to obtain?

Rule 1 of games where you can permanently lose items: Don't use what you can't afford to replace
Rule 1 of games where you can't permanently lose items: Don't invest into what you'll be upset if it's made cheaper

Live and learn right? ;p. I did learn my lesson though.

gigawuts
Aug 24, 2013, 05:15 PM
Live and learn right? ;p. I did learn my lesson though.

That's a good attitude about it and definitely the right takeaway. This is why I don't bother with things like element grinding or affixing too much. It's just not worth the hassle when I know full well Sega's gameplan is to squeeze more work and money out of me.

And, honestly, it's not like it makes that huge of a difference anyway. I still kill things plenty effectively.

Skyly HUmar
Aug 24, 2013, 05:20 PM
That's a good attitude about it and definitely the right takeaway. This is why I don't bother with things like element grinding or affixing too much. It's just not worth the hassle when I know full well Sega's gameplan is to squeeze more work and money out of me.

And, honestly, it's not like it makes that huge of a difference anyway. I still kill things plenty effectively.

Im just the kind of guy that likes to progress and peak. But i do have to control it a bit. Youre right though it doesnt take too much to kill atm, and even though im still butthurt about this change in the long run it will be more of a benefit (once my wallet recovers anyway).

Enforcer MKV
Aug 24, 2013, 05:34 PM
I dont think im going to get even a 5th of that meseta back even if i had a 3 day shop and ran TA for a month. Whats bugging me is that i could have kept almost all of it.

Let me give you an example, my first 10* 50% was kagu, i bought 6 ikus for 8m, i bought 1 element booster for 5m. that was enough to get me 50% (though in retrospect, 2 boosters and 1 iku less would have been cheaper awell lol). I got lucky and afixed/grinded it for about a mil, so the total cost was more or less 54m.

Now, if this new system was in play, it would have cost me 9m total, 8m for the iku, 1m for afixing/grinding, and X number of ruin gloams from falz stones. Imo thats a kick in the face.

And I don't think I've even had 54m cumulatively in this game [Arguable, but details], but that's not really all that relevant.

You either invest a lot of money all at once while things are expensive and get something sooner, or wait it out and save money at the expense of not having the latest shiny toy. And as unfortunate of a point as this is: This game is a gear treadmill - All of our current weapons will most likely become obsolete, regardless. It's just a matter of "when."

I'm not unsympathetic - it's a shame you used so much money on a weapon, and I hope you got a fair bit of use out of it, I really do. It's just...well, like I said last post - you paid a premium to acquire better gear faster. That's all on you.

EDIT: I take way too long typing and making sure I worded things right. It was 10 after when I started typing this reply. Ugh.

musicmf
Aug 24, 2013, 05:55 PM
Forget buying things in games, in general if you want something ASAP, you pay a premium for it. If you can wait until a new release is old and boring, you'll be able to buy it at a lower cost.
I'm not complaining about 50 element weapons being easier to make now, nor will I complain if an eventual grind or affix change occurs to make the game easier.
I also don't complain about a physical product going on a clearance sale when I buy it for full release-date price.

If you try to stay with the latest and greatest of anything, expect to have to pay top dollar, and very often as things update. Otherwise, just sit back and enjoy things that work, but aren't the best if you want to be sane with your money (or meseta).

--------

On topic;
I would have to assume it is a measly...
1 for a weapon, +1 for 30+ element, +1 for the same element, +1 for the same weapon. Max of +4 per weapon.

If SEGA was generous, we might expect...
(1 for a weapon, +1 for 30+ element, +1 for the same element) * 2 for the same weapon. Max of +6 per weapon.
I think that something like that is a stretch though... it is Sega...

But who knows, we'll have to see the rates when the system is actually implemented in game.

Zyrusticae
Aug 24, 2013, 06:11 PM
That's a good attitude about it and definitely the right takeaway. This is why I don't bother with things like element grinding or affixing too much. It's just not worth the hassle when I know full well Sega's gameplan is to squeeze more work and money out of me.

And, honestly, it's not like it makes that huge of a difference anyway. I still kill things plenty effectively.
Yup.

I don't have a single 50-element 10* (no, not even a Falz Elder weapon). It just doesn't make that much of a difference, particularly when I already one or two-shot most everything I run into anyway.

Still, it would be nice if the drop rates weren't so completely and utterly ridiculous that this is even necessary in the first place. The drop rates should be made under the assumption that players will want multiple of a single weapon for element grinding purposes, rather than the assumption that all the good weapons should sell for insanely high prices and be too rare for anything short of the most dedicated players to attain (bleeehhhh!).

gigawuts
Aug 24, 2013, 06:15 PM
Honestly, you shouldn't even need multiple copies of weapons to grind items. Having trash items work is a good substitute, though.

But this is going to place a demand on older, obsolete weapons for the express purpose of improving newer weapons.

Which will make older obsolete weapons worth more than 1k...at least, for a week or two every time new weapons are added.

In truth, almost all problems with the value of weapons can be blamed on their incessant need to focus the game on improving one weapon to obscene strength instead of having lots of weapons for different tasks.

Dextro
Aug 24, 2013, 06:28 PM
You either invest a lot of money all at once while things are expensive and get something sooner, or wait it out and save money at the expense of not having the latest shiny toy. And as unfortunate of a point as this is: This game is a gear treadmill - All of our current weapons will most likely become obsolete, regardless. It's just a matter of "when."

The main problem, for me at least, is that there's such little content in this game that once you hit the 'endgame', you have absolutely nothing to do but go for that 50% upgrade and/or those shiny toys anyway.

jcart953
Aug 24, 2013, 06:47 PM
The main problem, for me at least, is that there's such little content in this game that once you hit the 'endgame', you have absolutely nothing to do but go for that 50% upgrade and/or those shiny toys anyway.

Sadly this is so true, then once you hit that 50% plateau then there's really nothing to do well at least in my experience.



***On a side note I do like the update though but also feel for that other guy. I can understand being upset about trying to being dedicated to something only to have it backfire. We live and we learn I guess.

hoangsea
Aug 24, 2013, 07:07 PM
ok guys because of this

rouge coffin price rise 3 times higher than before
god damnit !

Walkure
Aug 24, 2013, 08:34 PM
ok guys because of this

rouge coffin price rise 3 times higher than before
god damnit !
That should drop down over time since they drop so frequently for pyroxenable rares.

Maninbluejumpsuit
Aug 24, 2013, 11:19 PM
ok guys because of this

rouge coffin price rise 3 times higher than before
god damnit !

You mean cruel coffin I'm sure. Well because of the update, I have one extra to sell back if each one is worth at least 4 attribute points after the update.

Should be 1 per, +1 for same weapon, +1 for same element, and +1 for >=30 element I think.

Enforcer MKV
Aug 25, 2013, 12:37 AM
The main problem, for me at least, is that there's such little content in this game that once you hit the 'endgame', you have absolutely nothing to do but go for that 50% upgrade and/or those shiny toys anyway.

Frankly, that's Sega's fault for designing an overly easy game who's major focus is getting 10 - 50 dollars worth from each player before they realize that the game doesn't even have a proper endgame besides shutting it off and waiting two months. That's on them to fix. [Which they won't because they need to design more costumes. Ugh.]

hoangsea
Aug 25, 2013, 12:40 AM
they should do something with critical in this game too, it's sucks so much that no one gonna add it :D

UnLucky
Aug 25, 2013, 01:14 AM
And what do Forces get in return?

The way attribute works, it is only useful for melees and ranger classes. So now everyone will get a cheap boost in weapon damage except for Forces.

Doesn't look fair.
They get the only worthwhile XQ trade-in weapon.

Any other class can get a good 50% 10* weapon to completely demolish the XQ one, even with the latent.


But yeah, this update is great. You have no excuse not to have 50% 10*s now, not with Falz and AQ weapons. Now they just need a trash katana to easy 50% the good one.

I'd only be upset about the change if I'd just recently element grinded all my stuff. Like how long have you been enjoying the extra damage that was only obtainable using the old system? If it's over a month, that's worth 100m or whatever it cost. I mean, what else are you gonna buy?

Maninbluejumpsuit
Aug 25, 2013, 01:24 AM
I'd only be upset about the change if I'd just recently element grinded all my stuff. Like how long have you been enjoying the extra damage that was only obtainable using the old system? If it's over a month, that's worth 100m or whatever it cost. I mean, what else are you gonna buy?

Costumes obviously!

UnLucky
Aug 25, 2013, 01:43 AM
Costumes obviously!

After all those

supersonix9
Aug 25, 2013, 01:59 AM
ooooh god this update. I think most of you are not going to agree with me here, but i think the update is going to suck. I mean, not only have we spent hundreds of millions of meseta getting our stuff to 50%, but this update kinda takes all of that and bends it over.

After this, were going to be able to get better stuff for cheaper sure, but only if we are rich or if we're extremely lucky, and were not getting any of the meseta we've already spent back. idk man, this update to me is more of a "haha, you actually put effort into the game?! naughty naughty~" than a godsend imo.

To each his own but imo this is turning the game into pay to win. Or be extremely lucky to win.

ae es dee eff

gigawuts
Aug 25, 2013, 08:17 AM
Honestly the whole element grinding thing feels like just another distraction from how awful the affixing and grinding systems are. They're shifting focus onto the one single thing that cannot shaft you with 30 consecutive fails because you roll nothing but 30 snake eyes while Joe Newbie over there grinds his twin kamui to +10 without one failure even though he hasn't even unlocked fighter.

Kamekur
Aug 25, 2013, 08:57 AM
They get the only worthwhile XQ trade-in weapon.

Any other class can get a good 50% 10* weapon to completely demolish the XQ one, even with the latent.


Ikarisei Hou (XQ Launcher) is stronger than Launcher Legacy 50 element. Just saying.

Getting on topic, I'm kinda upset with this update. I've spent this last month getting and min-maxing gear for all 3 types of classes just to get slapped by this update.

Not only because grinding element (might be) way cheaper, because the base weapons which I don't have yet, but had on mind on getting anytime soon, have gone way up in price.
Gunbraver for example, is now 3 times the price it was before on Ship 2.

But, knowing how SEGA thinks, I bet everyone who's bought pyroxene materials will get smacked in the face when the update hits:

"Hey gaiz, you can't use any type of pyroxene weapons to element grind any other 10*! Here's 3 more loli outfits to make up for that!"

Z-0
Aug 25, 2013, 09:02 AM
I am expecting pyroxene weapons to get blocked, at least the Falz weapons, because otherwise it would be a little -too- easy.

Kamekur
Aug 25, 2013, 09:15 AM
I am expecting pyroxene weapons to get blocked, at least the Falz weapons, because otherwise it would be a little -too- easy.

They'll surely get blocked.

Launcher Legacy 50 element would be as easy as 8 Craft Procyon.

Jinrai/Fossil Blower/Crys Calibur, with 8 Fossil Victor each.

Holy Ray/Signo Head Gun/Eru Tron/Foia Rain, 8 Latria Gloam each.

Dragon Slayer/Rosso Ringer/Ruins Mirage, 8 Ruins Gloam.

Etc.

As for the other weapon types, most can get AQ weapons (which is why the prices have gone way up), with the exception of Katana and Bullet Bows.

Forces don't even need to bother with this.

No love for Braver :| .

Zyrusticae
Aug 25, 2013, 09:34 AM
Now they just need a trash katana to easy 50% the good one.
What we have now ARE the trash katanas. All the good katanas are likely to be in the 360+ dex req range, which we don't have yet (even though bows get a 410 dex weapon - wtf?).

Man, at this point, I'd even settle for a freakin' red katana. There is simply nothing good about our current katana options.

gigawuts
Aug 25, 2013, 09:37 AM
What we have now ARE the trash katanas. All the good katanas are likely to be in the 360+ dex req range, which we don't have yet (even though bows get a 410 dex weapon - wtf?).

Man, at this point, I'd even settle for a freakin' red katana. There is simply nothing good about our current katana options.

I'm pretty sure they're holding off on red katanas because the dex penalty will basically not even matter, and the "good enough" red weapon will actually be pretty decent because of that.

Zyrusticae
Aug 25, 2013, 09:40 AM
I'm pretty sure they're holding off on red katanas because the dex penalty will basically not even matter.
Actually, I'm guessing it's most likely going to show up in the next batch of AQs, because for some reason SEGA decided that only Episode 2 content will see good katana drops. Which of course means that we have to wait for the zone after the third Lilipa zone before we can even see red katanas.

Hopefully the Lilipa zone (factory area?) sees at least a couple of new 10*s. I am quite liberally starved for katanas, man.

Shadowth117
Aug 25, 2013, 09:55 AM
They'll surely get blocked.

Launcher Legacy 50 element would be as easy as 8 Craft Procyon.

Jinrai/Fossil Blower/Crys Calibur, with 8 Fossil Victor each.

Holy Ray/Signo Head Gun/Eru Tron/Foia Rain, 8 Latria Gloam each.

Dragon Slayer/Rosso Ringer/Ruins Mirage, 8 Ruins Gloam.

Etc.

As for the other weapon types, most can get AQ weapons (which is why the prices have gone way up), with the exception of Katana and Bullet Bows.

Forces don't even need to bother with this.

No love for Braver :| .

This is also SEGA. Maybe they will, maybe they won't. We really have no clue at all. Not like you're blocked from getting cubes for your pyro weapons after all. And before I hear "oh, but that doesn't impact them as muc-", no it doesn't. It definitely doesn't give people a vehicle to free, better alternatives to AC drop boosters or anything.

So really, I could see it going either way. And if current Falz rates are anything to go by, it'd be quite a while getting stones for much of anything with how much we currently see him. Stones saved up are one thing, but as often happens in cases like this, many people likely weren't prepared for such a happening and would have seen no reason to save their stones. In fact, this is also assuming that the majority of players care about 50%ing their stuff. I mean look at all of the people who don't even affix their pyro weapons.

gigawuts
Aug 25, 2013, 09:58 AM
Ha ha ha, I just had a brilliant idea.

Using the wrong weapon doesn't boost element by even one point.

It merely enables you to open the window that lets you attach a 5% booster.

I should apply for a job at Sega.

Shadowth117
Aug 25, 2013, 09:59 AM
Ha ha ha, I just had a brilliant idea.

Using the wrong weapon doesn't boost element by even one point.

It merely enables you to open the window that lets you attach a 5% booster.

I should apply for a job at Sega.

Okay, I loled. That's gold^

Kamekur
Aug 25, 2013, 10:34 AM
Ha ha ha, I just had a brilliant idea.

Using the wrong weapon doesn't boost element by even one point.

It merely enables you to open the window that lets you attach a 5% booster.

I should apply for a job at Sega.

I'm gonna laugh if they slip that as a bug and then schedule an emergency maintenance to fix it. It wouldn't be the first time.

Edit: Just read this on bumped:



Element Grinding Adjustments
Attribute Grinding will receive the following changes.
You can now use weapons of the same type and rarity for elemental grinding.
Using the same weapon will have increased elemental grinding values.
Using the same weapon and same element further increases the elemental grinding values.
Adjusted the number of synthesizers needed for elemental grinding.


So using the same weapon will give something like 3% on wrong element, 4% with matching element?

Enforcer MKV
Aug 25, 2013, 12:13 PM
Ha ha ha, I just had a brilliant idea.

Using the wrong weapon doesn't boost element by even one point.

It merely enables you to open the window that lets you attach a 5% booster.

I should apply for a job at Sega.

That's just stupid enough to - f*ck, Giga, stop giving them ideas!

UnLucky
Aug 25, 2013, 01:36 PM
Ha ha ha, I just had a brilliant idea.

Using the wrong weapon doesn't boost element by even one point.

It merely enables you to open the window that lets you attach a 5% booster.

I should apply for a job at Sega.
That'd still be better than the current system, so long as 5%s stay at the same price... which they probably wouldn't.

Now if only they brought back those 10%s and actually made them tradeable this time. Sega would make major bank on those, why the hell couldn't you sell them?

Also it'd be a cheap way to switch the element... but still I expect the same-type weapons to give like 1-2% if not up to 3%. If only same-item weapons like added their elements together instead of a piddly +3% this wouldn't even be a problem.

Maninbluejumpsuit
Aug 27, 2013, 01:58 PM
I am expecting pyroxene weapons to get blocked, at least the Falz weapons, because otherwise it would be a little -too- easy.

Please don't say that.

I'd like to have my fossil bauer at 50 light, kthnx.

Aine
Aug 27, 2013, 02:15 PM
I am expecting pyroxene weapons to get blocked, at least the Falz weapons, because otherwise it would be a little -too- easy.
I'm pretty sure the entire point is to make people run AQs since they're getting rid of exit bursts in the same update. Otherwise nobody would bother with them...

Maninbluejumpsuit
Aug 27, 2013, 02:29 PM
I'm pretty sure the entire point is to make people run AQs since they're getting rid of exit bursts in the same update. Otherwise nobody would bother with them...

What is the exact step they're taking to get rid of exit bursts anyway? I missed it.

Fleur
Aug 27, 2013, 02:50 PM
What is the exact step they're taking to get rid of exit bursts anyway? I missed it.

They haven't said how they're going to do it exactly. The page just says they're changing spawning behavior during PSE bursts.

strikerhunter
Aug 27, 2013, 03:10 PM
What is the exact step they're taking to get rid of exit bursts anyway? I missed it.

They aren't removing exit/entrance bursts, they adjusting the distance of spawns from players during bursts.

Still won't mean a **** for range classes but it means those that uses melee weapons will have to chase and likely disrupt spawns so will likely resort to GS AB.

Not sure bout spawn rates are being changed during bursts though (That would totally be BS).

Maninbluejumpsuit
Aug 27, 2013, 03:31 PM
They aren't removing exit/entrance bursts, they adjusting the distance of spawns from players during bursts.

Still won't mean a **** for range classes but it means those that uses melee weapons will have to chase and likely disrupt spawns so will likely resort to GS AB.

Not sure bout spawn rates are being changed during bursts though (That would totally be BS).

Doesn't sound like much can possibly change.

Z-0
Aug 27, 2013, 03:39 PM
Yes, exit/entrance bursts are getting removed, because Sakai mentioned specifically that at one of the Thanks Festa in time for Autumn. They've just put a vague description on the support page, just like with Crystal Farming, which is getting removed too.


I'm pretty sure the entire point is to make people run AQs since they're getting rid of exit bursts in the same update. Otherwise nobody would bother with them...
Hmm, you are probably right. Didn't think that myself. I'll probably still play AQs regardless, as there's not much else to do...

Like I reach on BUTA, this is probably going to be come "Wait for DF and Visiphone Online 2" for a lot of people.

pkemr4
Aug 27, 2013, 03:44 PM
ive just recently learned about AQ's and got a bunch stones. so what is exactly getting nerfed @[email protected]?

Edit: nvm didnt read above since i was doing a TA

strikerhunter
Aug 27, 2013, 04:31 PM
Yes, exit/entrance bursts are getting removed, because Sakai mentioned specifically that at one of the Thanks Festa in time for Autumn. They've just put a vague description on the support page, just like with Crystal Farming, which is getting removed too.


Back to Bursting at a good corner again we go.

Edit: Thanks for correcting me Z-O.

ディヴァインボウよいち
Aug 28, 2013, 02:11 AM
can you stop getting hard over a dragon slayer please? and its 5% less i hear from JP players. so the other wpn u have must be like high element to make it count

disclaimer this is rumoured might be wrong.

Crysteon
Aug 28, 2013, 10:27 AM
Like I reach on BUTA, this is probably going to be come "Wait for DF and Visiphone Online 2" for a lot of people.

But it is that already.....just saying.

strikerhunter
Aug 28, 2013, 10:31 AM
can you stop getting hard over a dragon slayer please? and its 5% less i hear from JP players. so the other wpn u have must be like high element to make it count

disclaimer this is rumoured might be wrong.

When did anyone mentioned Dragon Slayer in the thread?

Shinamori
Aug 28, 2013, 11:59 AM
That's what I'm wondering lol.

Kamekur
Aug 28, 2013, 12:12 PM
When did anyone mentioned Dragon Slayer in the thread?

I did in one of my previous posts. I mentioned it along with other swords because it's the strongest 10* as long as you're not facing darkers or dragonkin. This same reason is why I mentioned Ruins Mirage and Rosso Ringer as alternatives. It's just hypothetic, I don't even play Hu/Fi.

Shinamori
Aug 28, 2013, 12:26 PM
Just a guess but:

Same Weapon <30% 2%
Same Weapon =>30% 3%
Same Weapon Same Element <30% 3%
Same Weapon Same Element =>30% 4%

Same Weapon-Type and Rarity <30% = 1%
Same Weapon-Type and Rarity >30% = 2%
Same Weapon-Type and Rarity Same Element <30% = 2%
Same Weapon-Type and Rarity Same Element >30% = 3%