talis vs wand

[Jyasupa]

Which do you think is better? Honestly, I prefer talis over wand because of the added range, and even though sega enhanced the hit stop of wand, I still find it too slow or weak for my tastes.

[Rien]

Wand is made for melee smacking anyway.

[Courina]

you still can use wand as you using rod thought.

compared wand and rod, plain same tier talis ussualy like 25% weaker. just yeah, talis able to perform some trick that make the user stay at safe distance, either for offense or support.

[Kamekur]

I prefer Umblla Rod.

If Rods aren't a choice, I'd pick Talis. I don't plan on maining Techer at all, so I don't want to invest on a weapon I'll never use again once I cap Techer. Besides, Rods have a faster cast animation than Wands and Umblla Rod has more T-ATK than most 10* Wands. Talis, on the other hand, has the zondeel spam utility with is good for bursts.

[BlueCast Boy]

I'm pretty sure that both have there advantage and disadvantage, since talis is great at long range techs and tools for set ups and coordinating techs while wand is great at short range techs for maintaining wand gear for normal attacks on wand since wands attacks are more flexible than rods.

[Kamekur]

I'm pretty sure that both have there advantage and disadvantage, since talis is great at long range techs and tools for set ups and coordinating techs while wand is great at short range techs for maintaining wand gear for normal attacks on wand since wands attacks are more flexible than rods.

Yeah, wand gear can be decent if you plan to main Techer. But for a casting-based combination such as Te/Fo, keeping up wand gear is most of the time counter-intituive. Fire or Lightning techs don't build enough wand gear, which forces you to use wind or dark. Wind requires you to be close to get the most of it, and most of the time the damage doesn't make up for it (against Fire/Lightning). And for dark, ramegid is the only tech that builds up wand gear at a decent rate (which is also one of the trickiest techs to use)

And the most important thing: You'll do more damage just using techs and using a gunslash to recover PP (if you ever need it) than getting up close and smacking with a non-melee-based class.

[gigawuts]

Yeah it's weird, it's like when you sub a tech class instead of a melee class your techs get better than your melee.

@ OP: Both are pretty nice at what they do. Wands hit stuff, talises cast stuff farther away.

[Kamekur]

Yeah it's weird, it's like when you sub a tech class instead of a melee class your techs get better than your melee.

That was the entire point of my previous post. Wand gear is pointless as Te/Fo.

[Shadowth117]

Wand gear is pointless

Fixed.

[AgemFrostMage]

Wand because you get extra damage while recovering PP. You don't even need PP convert and when you aren't whacking things when low you are too busy avoiding and will recover PP anyway.


That was the entire point of my previous post. Wand gear is pointless as Te/Fo.

Nu, you're wrong ^_^

[UnLucky]

Wands are in every way inferior to rods as a casting weapon. It's weaker and slower.

A wand is strictly inferior to a talis for casting, even if you never even throw a card. It still casts slower, despite having the same T-Atk. And of course, you can still use the ranged casting if you want.

What they tried to do was make it the shittiest tech weapon in the game, but "make up for it" by increasing your melee damage. But Force's melee damage is so bad that it could be five times more powerful and it still wouldn't be any good.

So for Te/Fo, never use a wand if you can help it. Sure, if you find a lucky rare that's better than your talis or you have no Umblla rod, you can get by with a wand and even try out Wand Gear if you're ever near an enemy for some reason while also out of PP. But never go for one intentionally.

And don't even think about getting Wand Reactor. It's not enough on its own to warrant the melee style; your techs will still be more powerful but now you're sacrificing PP regen.

[Zorafim]

I use wands when I want to be close to a group. I use talises when I'm far away from the group.

[Gardios]

Obviously wand > talis, because you can't smack enemies in the face with talis.

[SquashDemon]

I prefer Talis because Mahu.

No really, have you seen those things? they're freakin' awesome lookin'

[AgemFrostMage]

Wands are in every way inferior to rods as a casting weapon. It's weaker and slower.

A wand is strictly inferior to a talis for casting, even if you never even throw a card. It still casts slower, despite having the same T-Atk. And of course, you can still use the ranged casting if you want.

What they tried to do was make it the shittiest tech weapon in the game, but "make up for it" by increasing your melee damage. But Force's melee damage is so bad that it could be five times more powerful and it still wouldn't be any good.

So for Te/Fo, never use a wand if you can help it. Sure, if you find a lucky rare that's better than your talis or you have no Umblla rod, you can get by with a wand and even try out Wand Gear if you're ever near an enemy for some reason while also out of PP. But never go for one intentionally.

And don't even think about getting Wand Reactor. It's not enough on its own to warrant the melee style; your techs will still be more powerful but now you're sacrificing PP regen.

Agree on the rod part but you must remember that when recuperating PP the damage gap somewhat closes between wand and rod assuming you have gear. Otherwise is garbage I only use my PP convert/light tree when subbing as a force, and even then only where I wouldn't use namegid like city AQ, desert, or tunnels. Rod is better overall especially with PP convert to get rid of the need to whack things to recoup the PP.

I have the hammer stone wand... then a couple days after buying found a 640 TATK wand off a bird in the Beach Wars -_- The upgrade doesn't look worth it though especially since by the time I can I'd have a 60 techer and not touch techer as a main again until level cap rises. A lot of mileage comes out of the AQ stone rares so no need for the second best 10 star, especially since it's wind (yuckies) and has no abilities so my mighty hammer of might being 30 fire element is better in the long run anyway.


Obviously wand > talis, because you can't smack enemies in the face with talis.

Problem with wand though is it takes too long to hit and gives the enemy too much time to dodge. Should make striking much quicker. Talis is awful though you can't dodge out of it and throwing the cards keeps you in place. Control is awkward too. Though you can't dodge out of a wand swing (wand is too much commitment -_- ) it is less time stuck than a talis.

[gigawuts]

Problem with wand though is it takes too long to hit and gives the enemy too much time to dodge. Should make striking much quicker. Talis is awful though you can't dodge out of it and throwing the cards keeps you in place. Control is awkward too. Though you can't dodge out of a wand swing (wand is too much commitment -_- ) it is less time stuck than a talis.

what

what

[AgemFrostMage]

what

what

Okay, you swing with a wand, it takes almost an entire second to hit target, and that gives the enemy too much time to dodge. Once you get the hit in the strikes are rapid though, which is good. Talis' cards are slow, enemies dodge them easy, and you are stuck in place while throwing. Also bad for charging because you think you're starting a spell from the caster but it starts from a card you thought went away instead.

Recouping PP with a talis also gives vastly inferior damage. I know hitting the target for force or techer is to rcoup PP not actually do damage, but with wand gear you bleed some extra damage out of the enemy while replenishing PP, and the damage isn't trivial.

[UnLucky]

You don't use the rod melee unless you're really close to a lot of mobs, which you shouldn't normally be.

And I mean a lot of mobs, since if it's just one then a gunslash is still faster PP regen at any distance. And Force has as much base R-Atk as Techer does S-Atk. Chew on that one. (and Newearls have more R-Atk than S-Atk, too)

Though the rod's swing seems faster and farther to me, so it's better PP regen than a wand despite the lower damage.

Also you can jump (or land) while attacking to cancel the animation. Helps for any weapon, especially the talis, though you don't get a JA circle.

[Gardios]

Though you can't dodge out of a wand swing (wand is too much commitment -_- ) it is less time stuck than a talis.

dodging is for sissies

you stand as solid as a rock and beat your enemies until they don't dare attacking back

[GuardianGirth]

Besides bosses, Talis is the best FO weapon in the game. They're faster and the ability to put techs where you want is invaluable.

[Inazuma]

Wand sucks and should be avoided completely unless it's a requirement for a client order. You should use rods and talises, depending on the situation. Gunslash for recovering PP.

[strikerhunter]

Wand sucks and should be avoided completely unless it's a requirement for a client order. You should use rods and talises, depending on the situation. Gunslash for recovering PP.

Then why would one bother leveling up TE if you don't use wands? unless primarily to sub it.


Besides bosses, Talis is the best FO weapon in the game. They're faster and the ability to put techs where you want is invaluable.

But that is at the cost of damage which is highly noticeable.

[GuardianGirth]

The DPS you gain from PP recovery from quick talis throws + quicker cating = more than the damage unless you have a huge difference between your rod and talis as far as rarity/power. In about 1500 hours of FOing, i've learned that a rod needs at least 300 more T attack to match the difference.

[Zipzo]

I don't understand why this is even a VS thread, there is no situation in which you should be strapped between the usage of these two weapons...

[Chdata]

I don't understand why this is even a VS thread, there is no situation in which you should be strapped between the usage of these two weapons...

Um, obviously there is when you're considering whether you want to play Fo or Te main more.

[Dextro]

The DPS you gain from PP recovery from quick talis throws + quicker cating = more than the damage unless you have a huge difference between your rod and talis as far as rarity/power. In about 1500 hours of FOing, i've learned that a rod needs at least 300 more T attack to match the difference.

I just... ..what?

[Coatl]

So is this a FO/TE vs TE/FO thread then?

[Punisher106]

So is this a FO/TE vs TE/FO thread then?


Um, obviously there is when you're considering whether you want to play Fo or Te main more.

But... Talises can be used by both FO and TE... <_>

[Zipzo]

Um, obviously there is when you're considering whether you want to play Fo or Te main more.

Last I knew Talis was usable whether you were a TE or a FO main, so I don't see how that's relevant at all.


But... Talises can be used by both FO and TE... <_>

...except a FO main can't use wands.

You can only use a wand if you're a TE main. Therefore in order for this question to even make sense he would need to be a TE/FO or a TE/HU. TE/HU for damn sure isn't pulling a Talis, so this question could only possibly apply to a TE/FO.

[strikerhunter]

Actually this thread is more of a "This weapon" is better than "this other weapon"

Just my view:

For FOs, rods out does talis in damage and performance. Well played FOs won't run out of PP or resort to melee to recover. The higher damage from rod allows more of your PB gauge to increase faster than talis would as well, if having the right PB then rod is the way to go.

For TEs, it's different though. TE is built for close quarters thus making wands into a melee build with wand gear. So for TE, it depends on playstyle of being up close or afar. PP isn't really an issue as well if you grab PP recovery for TE.

[Chdata]

Last I knew Talis was usable whether you were a TE or a FO main, so I don't see how that's relevant at all.



...except a FO main can't use wands.

You can only use a wand if you're a TE main. Therefore in order for this question to even make sense he would need to be a TE/FO or a TE/HU. TE/HU for damn sure isn't pulling a Talis, so this question could only possibly apply to a TE/FO.

Oh right, it's not Rod vs Wand.

[Coatl]

A good FO would use both a Rod and a Talis anyway. Talis' excel in exit bursts mostly and you'd be silly to limit yourself to one versus just using both when they are applicable.

If you main TE you most likely want to smack things up close anyway, but using a talis doesn't really hurt you either.

[Punisher106]

I might as well give my two cents on the topic.

Talises are great for around-caster techniques that you don't want to risk yourself being in the middle of, such as Zondeel. It has a greater range, but generally has lower attack. Wands, however, are pretty damn good PP restorers, if you have Wand Gear. With it, you hit twice with an element-imbued wand, which boosts your PP by twice as much. each one has their advantages. Learn to love both.

[Korazenn]

Which do you think is better? Honestly, I prefer talis over wand because of the added range, and even though sega enhanced the hit stop of wand, I still find it too slow or weak for my tastes.

Honestly, I still prefer (and think) Rods are really all a good FO/TE needs. Both the Talis and Wand seem very secondary and situational weapons, much like the Gunslash. While they are good for what they do, "good" just doesn't cut it when you are up against large mobs and have to make sure you are getting good AoE in.

I will admit that the Talis does click with me more than a Wand, though I haven't actually gotten the chance to experience having a Wand, so it's not really my position to comment there. The benefit of long-ranged firing of technics through the Talis is what makes it an appealing FO weapon of choice. Combined with the fact that some technics rely on the Talis to become effective, and the situation becomes even far more clearer why the Talis even exists. But, as said before, still its all very situational in nature.

Sometimes when I feel just like attacking from outside of the battlefield at times that I know getting in the middle of combat is too risky when I use my FO, that's when I bring out my Talis (doesn't happen very often).

[Zenobia]

Then why would one bother leveling up TE if you don't use wands? unless primarily to sub it.

You just answered your own question. I know many who lvl TE and use Umbra rod to lvl this class and once capped sub it.

Hell I did myself.

[Zipzo]

Actually this thread is more of a "This weapon" is better than "this other weapon"

Just my view:

For FOs, rods out does talis in damage and performance. Well played FOs won't run out of PP or resort to melee to recover. The higher damage from rod allows more of your PB gauge to increase faster than talis would as well, if having the right PB then rod is the way to go.

For TEs, it's different though. TE is built for close quarters thus making wands into a melee build with wand gear. So for TE, it depends on playstyle of being up close or afar. PP isn't really an issue as well if you grab PP recovery for TE.

Without context of which class they are playing, it's a pointless question. It's apples to oranges.

[UnLucky]

I might as well give my two cents on the topic.

Talises are great for around-caster techniques that you don't want to risk yourself being in the middle of, such as Zondeel. It has a greater range, but generally has lower attack. Wands, however, are pretty damn good PP restorers, if you have Wand Gear. With it, you hit twice with an element-imbued wand, which boosts your PP by twice as much. each one has their advantages. Learn to love both.
The elemental explosion doesn't regen PP, only the physical swing, which would be identical to a rod's PP regen per hit.

[Zipzo]

The elemental explosion doesn't regen PP, only the physical swing, which would be identical to a rod's PP regen per hit.

Not only that but the Rod swings faster overall.

About the only manageable point that can be made for PP recovery on wands is that the the wand swing with the explosion is pretty wide I believe, giving it a higher possibility of hitting multiple mobs which = more pp. That's kind of pushing it though.

EDIT : I am wrong.

[gigawuts]

Rod seems to be much wider. I feel like the wand is a circle in front of the player, but the rod is a damn wide rectangle. You know those spawns of 3 boxes in a line in beach wars? Aim for the middle one and you can break all 3. It's serious whatthefuck huge and way wider than the animation suggests.

[Jaqlou Swig KING]

It's probably cuz Rods and Partisans share normal attack animations. Which was lazy but worked.

[Alisha]

i could never get into talis because im ocd about ja'ing all the time. not that you cant with a talis its just tricky.

[gigawuts]

No, it's really not.

[Zipzo]

i could never get into talis because im ocd about ja'ing all the time. not that you cant with a talis its just tricky.

Wut...?

[Kamekur]

Wut...?

Idk either. Just move on and let this stupid thread die already.

[Z-0]

It's kind of tricky because sometimes the enemies are closer or further to where the JA circle appears when throwing the card. However, it doesn't bother me because I usually use Zondeel after throwing a card and I want it for the suction effect usually.

However you can just slightly step forward or backwards and all your problems are solved!

[gigawuts]

However you can just slightly step forward or backwards and all your problems are solved!

Woah now, that's a pretty advanced technique.

[Sandmind]

However you can just slightly step forward or backwards and all your problems are solved!
?

In any case, if I care enough to JA my 1st tech I want launched from my character, I can always tps aim the talis into the ground, then switch back to regular view mode if needed.

[Zipzo]

Woah now, that's a pretty advanced technique.

You want advanced?

Let me tell you about a little something I call...the sheath cancel...

[UnLucky]

In any case, if I care enough to JA my 1st tech I want launched from my character, I can always tps aim the talis into the ground, then switch back to regular view mode if needed.
That would be the tricky part, unless they meant timing a JA against the card's position when it's near an enemy, but the JA window is so incredibly long that you can pretty much get it at any distance.

You could also use Shifta to get your JA without throwing a card.

[hoangsea]

anyone try TE/HU gear build ?
those new skills from the latest big patch support techer with wand

with that convert skills i think the damage from weapon even surpass swords 's dmg
base s-atk of tech base class are lower than physical class, it can replace by the wand gear effect

but being an melee without PA and with weak dmg tech seems not fun even normal attack can hit so hard