PDA

View Full Version : PSO2 The reason PSO2 got forgotten



Reyoku
Aug 27, 2013, 11:02 PM
im really confused about western release myself but are there any people here knowing the reason why it actually got delayed?
pso is my favorite gaming series since 12 years now and i know its not that famous outside jp. maybe cause of the name, less advertising
or cause it was p2p in past..
so how is it going in jp? is the game actually running good? are they making good sales with pso2? i have a bad feeling about the long delay and lack of news.. if there are not enough player/sales they could close down the servers before even releasing the game outside of their country

Kril
Aug 27, 2013, 11:08 PM
im really confused about western release myself but are there any people here knowing the reason why it actually got delayed?
pso is my favorite gaming series since 12 years now and i know its not that famous outside jp. maybe cause of the name, less advertising
or cause it was p2p in past..
o man time to sit back and wait for the usual responses to this, heres a hint, have they ever told us why in PSU we had 3 months no content? no

so how is it going in jp? is the game actually running good? are they making good sales with pso2? i have a bad feeling about the long delay and lack of news.. if there are not enough player/sales they could close down the servers before even releasing the game outside of their country
you don't read up much on this game do you?

anyways, time to sit back and watch the fireworks

gigawuts
Aug 27, 2013, 11:09 PM
As far as I'm aware no reason was ever given for the delay. The game is doing pretty good in Japan, but some game communities definitely express a distaste for it after playing it long term (or short term, depending on the person I guess) due to the finer points of balancing, etc. You know, the usual stuff.

Phantasy Star has never really been a big thing in the west, partially because of cultural differences but also partially because Sega never actually pushes it very hard over here. I'm not sure how much liberty SoA would have with it in the west, but I can say some things in the JP version will definitely make westerners cringe.

strikerhunter
Aug 27, 2013, 11:10 PM
*grabs a chair and sits back with a soda*

With the fact that 3 million users register (hahahaha I bet most where those that didn't want to pay for another character) and bout 100k log-ins on a monthly average and great success in JP, one can say it's doing very well in Japan.

But just because it succeeds in one place does not mean it will succeed or no in another place, mainly because of the culture difference and audience.

And lastly, no................Sega of America had yet to say any reasons why NA/EU was delayed. PAX is nearing and still no news because this is SoA, they like to keep their fans in the dark like they did in PSU.

Ezodagrom
Aug 27, 2013, 11:10 PM
so how is it going in jp? is the game actually running good? are they making good sales with pso2? i have a bad feeling about the long delay and lack of news.. if there are not enough player/sales they could close down the servers before even releasing the game outside of their country
It seems to be doing quite well on Japan, they recently reached 3 million registered accounts, had a new peak of slightly over 100 thousand simultaneous connections in late July, and PSO2 is mentioned in SEGA Sammy's quarterly financial reports.

Taurus83
Aug 27, 2013, 11:12 PM
im really confused about western release myself but are there any people here knowing the reason why it actually got delayed?
pso is my favorite gaming series since 12 years now and i know its not that famous outside jp. maybe cause of the name, less advertising
or cause it was p2p in past..
so how is it going in jp? is the game actually running good? are they making good sales with pso2? i have a bad feeling about the long delay and lack of news.. if there are not enough player/sales they could close down the servers before even releasing the game outside of their country

is a big success in japan and it they gonna be SEA version of PSO2 at year 2014 handle by Asiasoft and Gamania for hong kong

ReaperTheAbsol
Aug 27, 2013, 11:16 PM
I'll be refreshing the thread consistently. Stay classy, PSO-W.

Kril
Aug 27, 2013, 11:18 PM
just read everything here

http://bumped.org/psublog/

you'll get the idea and save some people from lashing out at you

Punisher106
Aug 27, 2013, 11:26 PM
SoA only cares about running Sanic into the ground. They could give two shits about any other sega title.

Exiled_Gundam
Aug 27, 2013, 11:41 PM
If the SEA version is using English language, will you play it? Let's say they didn't impose IP ban

strikerhunter
Aug 27, 2013, 11:43 PM
^

Hell no................Asiasoft is the worst company ever existed.

Taurus83
Aug 27, 2013, 11:47 PM
most well known A$ia$oft

Kril
Aug 27, 2013, 11:48 PM
^

Hell no................Asiasoft is the worst company ever existed.

How much you wanna bet that a majority of the people waiting for it to be English will play with the whole "hey as long as I can read and play it finally I don't care who handles it" mentatility and then maybe within a 6month period where its nothing but people getting mad about how Asiasoft doesn't know how to handle content, they only want out money etc

we all know this is gonna happen

strikerhunter
Aug 27, 2013, 11:52 PM
How much you wanna bet that a majority of the people waiting for it to be English will play with the whole "hey as long as I can read and play it finally I don't care who handles it" mentatility and then maybe within a 6month period its nothing but people getting mad about how Asiasoft doesn't know how to handle content etc

we all know this is gonna happen

It's not the content I would rather worried about, it's their poor customer services (unless content counts then yea.....).

Asiasoft is highly hated because of their poor customer services but for those in the its location, Asiasoft is their only choice........

Even though I don't play with any translator patches, I would rather still play a game that I can't read and learn to understand it rather than a game that I can read but with poor services.

Exiled_Gundam
Aug 27, 2013, 11:59 PM
Haha I'm saying it to those who still refrain to play the JP version to wait for NA version. I know some people don't want to play it because of the language (and some find the patching too bothersome)

Kril
Aug 28, 2013, 12:02 AM
Haha I'm saying it to those who still refrain to play the JP version to wait for NA version. I know some people don't want to play it because of the language (and some find the patching too bothersome)

never used the patch and people having trouble setting it up is amusing, doesn't take long to set up and keep up to date either

IzzyData
Aug 28, 2013, 12:13 AM
My problem with the JP servers is that there are rarely ever english players doing the same things you are doing. It is practically a 1 player game. Sure you can find english players afking in the lobby to talk to, but if you want to actually play the game you will either play alone or with Japanese players.

With an English server the 3-4 people across all blocks doing the same mission as you will probably all speak English. Since pso2 is mostly a social game instead of actually being difficult not being able to talk to people makes it really boring.

ReaperTheAbsol
Aug 28, 2013, 12:18 AM
My problem with the JP servers is that there are rarely ever english players doing the same things you are doing. It is practically a 1 player game. Sure you can find english players afking in the lobby to talk to, but if you want to actually play the game you will either play alone or with Japanese players.

With an English server the 3-4 people across all blocks doing the same mission as you will probably all speak English. Since pso2 is mostly a social game instead of actually being difficult not being able to talk to people makes it really boring.

You should probably get a team. It generally solves these kind of issues.

Lumpen Thingy
Aug 28, 2013, 12:18 AM
My problem with the JP servers is that there are rarely ever english players doing the same things you are doing. It is practically a 1 player game. Sure you can find english players afking in the lobby to talk to, but if you want to actually play the game you will either play alone or with Japanese players.

With an English server the 3-4 people across all blocks doing the same mission as you will probably all speak English. Since pso2 is mostly a social game instead of actually being difficult not being able to talk to people makes it really boring.
um that's a load of crap I find English players in AQ blocks all the freaking time

Taurus83
Aug 28, 2013, 12:27 AM
My problem with the JP servers is that there are rarely ever english players doing the same things you are doing. It is practically a 1 player game. Sure you can find english players afking in the lobby to talk to, but if you want to actually play the game you will either play alone or with Japanese players.

With an English server the 3-4 people across all blocks doing the same mission as you will probably all speak English. Since pso2 is mostly a social game instead of actually being difficult not being able to talk to people makes it really boring.

ah yes I agree

Korazenn
Aug 28, 2013, 12:34 AM
You should probably get a team. It generally solves these kind of issues.

Definitely. My teammates and I are always finding something to do together and it has made leveling and doing missions not only faster but far more efficient.

marth167
Aug 28, 2013, 12:52 AM
I'm not big fan of buying import games do to the language barrier. I only brought the ps.vita for Phantasy star online 2 i'm really close to just biting the bullet and getting JP version it. I haven't played it yet and i feel so for behind. What should i do ?

xxmadplayerxx
Aug 28, 2013, 01:15 AM
I'm not big fan of buying import games do to the language barrier. I only brought the ps.vita for Phantasy star online 2 i'm really close to just biting the bullet and getting JP version it. I haven't played it yet and i feel so for behind. What should i do ?

Considering PSO2 is free to play , give it a shot. You have nothing to lose :D

Exiled_Gundam
Aug 28, 2013, 02:02 AM
My problem with the JP servers is that there are rarely ever english players doing the same things you are doing. It is practically a 1 player game. Sure you can find english players afking in the lobby to talk to, but if you want to actually play the game you will either play alone or with Japanese players.

With an English server the 3-4 people across all blocks doing the same mission as you will probably all speak English. Since pso2 is mostly a social game instead of actually being difficult not being able to talk to people makes it really boring.

Hahah depends on people though. I'm not a person who talk when I play (since I can pay attention to only one). Usually when I join JP party I hardly talk (other than the usual "ok", "yoro", "otsukare"), but when you played the game long enough, most of the time you can predict already what kind of play style the party do, and then follow suit (especially true in AQ,XQ and EQ).

ChaosAngel92
Aug 28, 2013, 12:28 PM
"Delayed"

There is not going to be a western release.

CloudChaser
Aug 28, 2013, 12:50 PM
Sega has announced western release, 2-17-14.


Totally kidding, I don't expect it coming anytime soon if at all.

Reyoku
Aug 28, 2013, 01:02 PM
wow 3 sites full and mostly bad talk about asiasoft :D
but thanks for the info.. u got me there. i dont often read the forums or spamm threads/discussions about release BUUT i know most of u people are playing on jp server (honor for those with ping <500) and this ones should know about the activity and sales. so u say its doing well... no worries then anymore. i really had the feeling its dead (even in jp) since there are a few ingame events but nothing regarding the delay for western release.. its about 1/2 year now

Skyly HUmar
Aug 28, 2013, 01:11 PM
Its not coming imo, if you want to play it for the story the translation is out, and if you're just waiting to play i would start asap before you get left too far behind.

AgemFrostMage
Aug 28, 2013, 01:25 PM
I just want them to release original ecosystem like a diamond planet with crystal based life or an asteroid belt where we hop on asteroids. M.O.R.E has some excellent ecosystem and race ideas.

Chdata
Aug 28, 2013, 01:42 PM
but I can say some things in the JP version will definitely make westerners cringe.

Elaborate?

Zipzo
Aug 28, 2013, 01:44 PM
Elaborate?

He's probably referring to mechanics like grinding or affixing, not content-related things.

Link1275
Aug 28, 2013, 01:44 PM
Elaborate?
Drop rates, grinding, affixing, the costumes, the amount of costumes compared to everything else in the games, etc... At least that's what makes me cringe about PSO2(and everything gigawuts constantly complains about that I can list off the top of my head).

jooozek
Aug 28, 2013, 01:46 PM
for an action rpg the game is pretty fucking flegmatic

The Walrus
Aug 28, 2013, 01:58 PM
phlegmatic


Oh right and it got forgotten cause Sakai fucked up pretty bad.

gigawuts
Aug 28, 2013, 02:03 PM
Elaborate?

grinding, affixing, mpas, kuna, loliface npcs, a focus almost entirely on outfits, the scratch system being the focal point of most updates, limited availability on binding scratch items, premium that offers nothing but shop and my room (I sincerely doubt the western version will launch with all the additions to the game, premium additions included)

shall I continue?

laughably low drop rates, rares that can't be unbound, your standard planned obsolescence, items that are nothing but a model and a damage value, extra characters costing real money, no ability to just pop out and make money

Asian players might play PSO2 like sweatshop workers, but that shit won't fly in the west. Kids will move the fuck on after vol dragon #100 doesn't drop their vol scale.

This game is a long, long step away from what the west has become accustomed to via sheer number of trial and error changes by different companies that were brought on by other companies. What's around in the west is only as accepted as it is because the players have molded the game environment to their liking by giving actual negative feedback and then devs occasionally listening when players speak with their wallets.

Lumpen Thingy
Aug 28, 2013, 02:41 PM
grinding, affixing, mpas, kuna, loliface npcs, a focus almost entirely on outfits, the scratch system being the focal point of most updates, limited availability on binding scratch items, premium that offers nothing but shop and my room (I sincerely doubt the western version will launch with all the additions to the game, premium additions included)

shall I continue?

laughably low drop rates, rares that can't be unbound, your standard planned obsolescence, items that are nothing but a model and a damage value, extra characters costing real money, no ability to just pop out and make money

Asian players might play PSO2 like sweatshop workers, but that shit won't fly in the west. Kids will move the fuck on after vol dragon #100 doesn't drop their vol scale.

This game is a long, long step away from what the west has become accustomed to via sheer number of trial and error changes by different companies that were brought on by other companies. What's around in the west is only as accepted as it is because the players have molded the game environment to their liking by giving actual negative feedback and then devs occasionally listening when players speak with their wallets.
so it has the problems of almost every nexon game out there but not as bad? um ok

gigawuts
Aug 28, 2013, 03:12 PM
so it has the problems of almost every nexon game out there but not as bad? um ok

and how exceptionally well does nexon do in the west?

Zipzo
Aug 28, 2013, 03:29 PM
and how exceptionally well does nexon do in the west?

Leagues better than SEGA.

And overall pretty well too. If you define "well" by hitting their bottom line.

gigawuts
Aug 28, 2013, 03:34 PM
I don't, I define "well" as being broadly appreciated, positively spoken about, and making a considerable and competitive profit margin.

gravityvx
Aug 28, 2013, 05:01 PM
lolnexon, was waiting on those douches to answer a ticket from a year ago on a game that just got shut down about two or three months ago. Obviously I'm not waiting anymore but come on, 5 star customer support.

They take good games and crap all over them with their bad service, ridiculous item mall prices, implement ways to try and force a player to need to pay for their F2P games to the point of just wanting to quit, atlantica online is probably the hugest culprit, which is sad because that games actually really good. Vindictus is still kickn I suppose and a pretty decent game, but wouldn't touch it because of the above.

Zipzo
Aug 28, 2013, 05:07 PM
I don't, I define "well" as being broadly appreciated, positively spoken about, and making a considerable and competitive profit margin.

It's probably fair to say that most if not all companies who host a product care more about B. Which Nexon achieves.

"Broadly appreciated" and "positively spoken about" are hardly measurable values of success. I think last year they were out-performing Zynga. Money talks, man.

ReaperTheAbsol
Aug 28, 2013, 05:07 PM
Maplestory's probably Nexon's main cashcow since tons of 8 year old children take their parents' credit cards and go all willy nilly on the NX cash shop, but then again that game has so many P2W upgrade methods available to the players that the game has gone straight to shit in more ways than one. The game is also infested with RMTers, and all a player needs is a name and people to vouch for them in order to make it big before.

By the way off topic, but it looks like Sega's not gonna show PSO2 off at Pax Prime. Shocking, isn't it? /la sarcasm

http://blogs.sega.com/2013/08/27/sega-bringing-entire-fall-lineup-to-pax-prime/

Skyly HUmar
Aug 28, 2013, 05:09 PM
grinding, affixing, mpas, kuna, loliface npcs, a focus almost entirely on outfits, the scratch system being the focal point of most updates, limited availability on binding scratch items, premium that offers nothing but shop and my room (I sincerely doubt the western version will launch with all the additions to the game, premium additions included)

shall I continue?

laughably low drop rates, rares that can't be unbound, your standard planned obsolescence, items that are nothing but a model and a damage value, extra characters costing real money, no ability to just pop out and make money

Asian players might play PSO2 like sweatshop workers, but that shit won't fly in the west. Kids will move the fuck on after vol dragon #100 doesn't drop their vol scale.

This game is a long, long step away from what the west has become accustomed to via sheer number of trial and error changes by different companies that were brought on by other companies. What's around in the west is only as accepted as it is because the players have molded the game environment to their liking by giving actual negative feedback and then devs occasionally listening when players speak with their wallets.

Don't forget the class unbalance, its only getting worse and worse as more changes to the classes are made.

gigawuts
Aug 28, 2013, 05:10 PM
It's probably fair to say that most if not all companies who host a product care more about B. Which Nexon achieves.

"Broadly appreciated" and "positively spoken about" are hardly measurable values of success. I think last year they were out-performing Zynga. Money talks, man.

I don't have the numbers on these companies, but really. We're comparing Sega, Nexon, and Zynga. This is like comparing whether dog shit, horse shit, or bull shit smells better.

Zipzo
Aug 28, 2013, 05:11 PM
I don't have the numbers on these companies, but really. We're comparing Sega, Nexon, and Zynga. This is like comparing whether dog shit, horse shit, or bull shit smells better.

Well, we play PSO2. To compare shit we must first accept that we live in it.

gigawuts
Aug 28, 2013, 05:14 PM
Yeah, we're particularly well acquainted with one of those flavors. It doesn't make it any less shit, nor does our tolerance for it mean it would succeed in a western market.

pkemr4
Aug 28, 2013, 05:17 PM
even if a US release comes out i still wont play it.

Rexob
Aug 28, 2013, 05:18 PM
Honestly, as a long time PSO player since the Dreamcast, I fully understand what I'm playing and why. PSO is one of the grindiest games out there with very few rewards at times, and some of the mechanics just make you want to scream occasionally. However, that's the game...overall, having played PSO on the Dreamcast, GC, & Xbox; PSU on the PC - this is my favorite version yet. Am I lowering my expectations or tolerating it? No, I know exactly how PSO is designed - it's always been grindy and frustrating to some degree...PSU you used to lose items entirely when failing a grind.

Sega has never represented the game to be anything else really...


even if a US release comes out i still wont play it.

Me either, it will be PSU all over again, and the US version won't even have everything the current JP version has now.

Reyoku
Aug 28, 2013, 11:20 PM
Its not coming imo, if you want to play it for the story the translation is out, and if you're just waiting to play i would start asap before you get left too far behind.

the patch is quiet nice work and i would love to play.. but not with ping over 500 from my region :/



oh and @Rexob
i know its just grinding.. it always was. and i also hate grinding. but pso is the only game i hope it always keeps being a grind game. im playing it for the atmosphere, the nice combos, weapons and music.. i was fascinated since ages of the unique style and world.. otherwise it would be just some kind of game like tera without open world system

gigawuts
Aug 28, 2013, 11:30 PM
the patch is quiet nice work and i would love to play.. but not with ping over 500 from my region :/



oh and @Rexob
i know its just grinding.. it always was. and i also hate grinding. but pso is the only game i hope it always keeps being a grind game. im playing it for the atmosphere, the nice combos, weapons and music.. i was fascinated since ages of the unique style and world.. otherwise it would be just some kind of game like tera without open world system

Pings aren't a big deal in PSO2. Most combat is handled client-side. If something doesn't hit you on your screen you won't take damage, and if you hit something on your screen it will take damage. It's as easy as that. PP consumption for PAs and techs, PP recovery, all of that is handled client-side. When it takes damage is what's lagged.

I don't have a particularly good ping and the only thing it really negatively affects is weapon swap speeds.

Zenobia
Aug 29, 2013, 03:20 AM
My problem with the JP servers is that there are rarely ever english players doing the same things you are doing. It is practically a 1 player game. Sure you can find english players afking in the lobby to talk to, but if you want to actually play the game you will either play alone or with Japanese players.

With an English server the 3-4 people across all blocks doing the same mission as you will probably all speak English. Since pso2 is mostly a social game instead of actually being difficult not being able to talk to people makes it really boring.

Never ran into your problem I have capable English players and Japanese whom I can get AQ's and w/e else I wanna run on hand.

I can understand some things though but honestly most people want to run things that would benefit them and you, if you're not doing AQ's or TA's or XQ's then yeah you can pretty much forget about parties.

lostinseganet
Aug 29, 2013, 03:58 AM
They don't want to put up with the soccer moms of America.

Project Astral
Aug 29, 2013, 04:44 AM
I don't have the numbers on these companies, but really. We're comparing Sega, Nexon, and Zynga. This is like comparing whether dog shit, horse shit, or bull shit smells better.

I know I missed the whole part of the discussion where you guys brought up Nexon and you probably don't care but I have some numbers anyways!

Not that many care at this point, but Nexon put out their Q2 2013 financial docs today:

- Nexon America has lost 446 million JPY so far this year which translates to a loss of about 4.6 million USD, nearly twice what Nexon America lost in the first six months of 2012.
- Nexon America's revenue declined 23% on a constant currency basis.
- Nexon as a whole continues to make money off the strength of CDnF and their Japanese mobile gaming business.

tl;dr: Same old but worse.

Sources:
http://ir.nexon.co.jp/en/library/pdf/20130809_3.pdf
http://ir.nexon.co.jp/en/library/pdf/20130809_2.pdf
http://ir.nexon.co.jp/en/library/pdf/20130809.pdf
Honestly, I'm curious to know a similar breakdown of Sega but I just pulled this from the other forum I frequent.

AgemFrostMage
Aug 29, 2013, 06:20 AM
They don't want to put up with the soccer moms of America.

They ruin too much so companies should stop listening to them altogether. Oh, can't make characters seem natural because swearing is "bad" but the kids just hear it anyway, can't have any authenticity, and seem to inject dishonest self-esteem (well dishonest if the kid sucks). If you suck you should know it, knowing you suck is the first step towards not sucking, otherwise they stay the course and continue.

Rien
Aug 29, 2013, 06:22 AM
We should start looking at asiasoft now since they're hosting pso2 southeastasian

gigawuts
Aug 29, 2013, 07:27 AM
I know I missed the whole part of the discussion where you guys brought up Nexon and you probably don't care but I have some numbers anyways!

Honestly, I'm curious to know a similar breakdown of Sega but I just pulled this from the other forum I frequent.

Thanks. I'd comment if I knew more about their games, but the truth is if it wasn't for everyone on PSOW telling me nexon is oh so much worse than sega I would have never even heard of them.

Y'all got some PTSD with nexon or something.

If I had to guess, though, I'd wager it has something to do with people wising up to bullshit business tactics and just refusing to pay forany of their games anymore. Which makes sega's "better" shit, which is really just a watered down version of the exact same shit, not seem so great to all the frothing fanboys. Or, well, it should. It won't, because they're frothing fanboys - but it should.

Kondibon
Aug 29, 2013, 07:43 AM
Thanks. I'd comment if I knew more about their games, but the truth is if it wasn't for everyone on PSOW telling me nexon is oh so much worse than sega I would have never even heard of them.

Y'all got some PTSD with nexon or something.

If I had to guess, though, I'd wager it has something to do with people wising up to bullshit business tactics and just refusing to pay forany of their games anymore. Which makes sega's "better" shit, which is really just a watered down version of the exact same shit, not seem so great to all the frothing fanboys. Or, well, it should. It won't, because they're frothing fanboys - but it should. Being a Mabinogi player, I think there's a couple of big reasons Nexon America took such a big dive, at least from my perspective, I only really play Mabi now.

1)They recently dropped one of their games. The game apparently wasn't that popular from the start, but I can imagine they lost some profits from that.

2) In Mabinogi, they recently made one of the main premium features free. Because extra storage was the main reason most players got premium anyway I can imagine a LOT of people stopped paying for premium.

3) Also in Mabi they recently released a new feature that, while available to free players, called reforges. To put into perspective how ridiculous the system is: Imagine if you wanted to put an ability on a weapon in PSO2, but to do that you only have one chance to do it and the ability you get is completely random. Then imagine there's a cash shop item you can buy to try again, and said cash shop item is the only way to get the abilities higher than level 1... and it's still random. I think a lot of people either quit out of fear that the game would become P2W (it's really not), or the people who spammed for prohax reforges and spend hundreds rebirthing every week got over powered and are bored now.

I can't speak for their other games though.

Honestly, Nexon's treatment of it's actual games haven't been as bad as SEGA treats PSO2 though... They just have REALLY REALLY shitty customer service.

gigawuts
Aug 29, 2013, 07:48 AM
Companies only start giving away features like that when they're already going down. They try to draw players in, either returning or starting for the first time. It's not at all rare for F2P games that are in a nosedive to just start throwing shit at their fans like Oprah Winfrey after some bad PR.

If they went and gave away the main feature to buy premium then that on its own indicates they were doing badly and were trying to firesale their goods. Same with dropping a title, but that's less indicative.

That ability system sounds like complete trash and since we're talking about Nexon America here this is kind of backing up what I said in the first place. The majority of western players see random bullshit that they can't actually influence and promptly turn on their heel. Nobody here wants to put up with that shit when the icon right next to Mabinogi on their desktop launches a game that gives them consistent results WITHOUT charging real money to change it when they want to.

yoshiblue
Aug 29, 2013, 08:05 AM
NA was the only one still charging. It was free in JP and KR for a while now and the player base have been asking for it for months. Reforges are like gachas. It makes money, though it beats getting potions in said gatchas.

Not sure about DFO but Elsword also was taking a nose dive for a time so it may just be the genre taking a hit similar to RTS games. Though I was told you hardly saw people online. They are bringing over new games last I saw. I do agree on poor customer service.

Kondibon
Aug 29, 2013, 08:08 AM
Companies only start giving away features like that when they're already going down. They try to draw players in, either returning or starting for the first time. It's not at all rare for F2P games that are in a nosedive to just start throwing shit at their fans like Oprah Winfrey after some bad PR.

If they went and gave away the main feature to buy premium then that on its own indicates they were doing badly and were trying to firesale their goods. Same with dropping a title, but that's less indicative.

That ability system sounds like complete trash and since we're talking about Nexon America here this is kind of backing up what I said in the first place. The majority of western players see random bullshit that they can't actually influence and promptly turn on their heel. Nobody here wants to put up with that shit when the icon right next to Mabinogi on their desktop launches a game that gives them consistent results WITHOUT charging real money to change it when they want to.I should mention that all of this is happening in KR Mabi too, which is perfectly healthy, that's like, the only reason we're getting it as far as I can tell (They know we know what the other servers are up to). Nexon has this habit of making old things free so people go "oh I have all this extra money I used to spend on x in Mabi, maybe I should get more pets" (you used to have to have premium to use the transformations, then you didn't, you used to have to be premium to do the story quests, then you didn't etc), they've been doing it for years. This stuff specifically started a year ago and they're still doing events and talking about updates. Unlike EU Mabi that just went silent for half a year before going "ok, we're going down kbai" and shoving all their players to the NA servers.

Maybe my analogy was too harsh though. ._. Reforges aren't as important as abilities in PSO2 (we have enchants for that), there... actually isn't anything to compare it to in PSO2 because PSO2 relies so much in the endgame on you being totally and 100% efficient. >.o My point was that nexon finally broke the "don't sell power" rule in Mabi. The cash shop has been relatively fair compared to PSO2's, but that's due to the nature and balance of the game more than anything.

I could go on and on about how I think Mabi's cash shop is better than PSO2's but then... I could go on and on about the general flaws of the game (they still haven't replaced the laggy font D: ) and Nexon's shit customer service too. Then there's the fact that Mabi is older. Who knows, maybe PSO2 will be slightly higher tier shit too.

ReaperTheAbsol
Aug 29, 2013, 08:10 AM
Tarlach represent. Just Saiyan.

yoshiblue
Aug 29, 2013, 08:16 AM
Need I bring up the Blame Tarlach Thread?

ReaperTheAbsol
Aug 29, 2013, 08:19 AM
No. I don't know. I'm new. Don't hurt me. D:

Kondibon
Aug 29, 2013, 08:23 AM
The reason PSO2 got forgotten: Tarlach...

Ok I'm done. ._.

ReaperTheAbsol
Aug 29, 2013, 08:32 AM
Is it really that bad? I know there's a certain player that had a thread targeting them. I think it was something about Tarlach wanting to take down this tyrant of an RMTer or something. I just chose Tarlach because my buddy said to play the game with him. Guess I chose wrong.

Kinda makes me wonder whether I picked a decent for Maple nowadays.

Kondibon
Aug 29, 2013, 08:34 AM
Is it really that bad? I know there's a certain player that had a thread dedicated to them. Something about Tarlach wanting to take down this tyrant of an RMTer or something. I just chose Tarlach because my buddy said to play the game with him.

It's an in-joke. People tended to jokingly blame Tarlach for server crashes or something.

Hey, that's something PSO2 has over Mabi. The servers are fucking stable. >_>

yoshiblue
Aug 29, 2013, 08:34 AM
Nah, its a server with good people. Its just that during a maintenance, Tarlach was the only one still down. So maint. had to be extended and hilarity ensued.

ReaperTheAbsol
Aug 29, 2013, 08:35 AM
Ooooooh. So Tarlach isn't evil. Okay. Cool. I was freaking out even though I didn't make much progress. DX

Z-0
Aug 29, 2013, 08:41 AM
I saw something about selling and F2P models and crap and I felt like posting this even though it might not necessarily be relevant:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WXA559KNopI


Pings aren't a big deal in PSO2. Most combat is handled client-side. If something doesn't hit you on your screen you won't take damage, and if you hit something on your screen it will take damage. It's as easy as that. PP consumption for PAs and techs, PP recovery, all of that is handled client-side. When it takes damage is what's lagged.

I don't have a particularly good ping and the only thing it really negatively affects is weapon swap speeds.
If you're a competitive player at all, ping is a huge deal and it's hardly unnoticeable. Things spawn slower, damage is registered slower, lobby actions and weapon switches come out slower, and being able to chain kill is not possible outside of a few attacks depending on where you live.

If Time Attack isn't your thing, I guess ping doesn't matter, but if it is, you are much better waiting for PSO2 NA as you will have a lot more fun on there, as PSO2 JP doesn't get anything substantial anyway.

Kondibon
Aug 29, 2013, 08:55 AM
I saw something about selling and F2P models and crap and I felt like posting this even though it might not necessarily be relevant:

Extra Credits: Microtransactions - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WXA559KNopI)


It's totally relevant, thank you. :3

jooozek
Aug 29, 2013, 08:56 AM
i don't know any nexon games that requires you to pay 15$ monthly to just be able to trade lol

Kondibon
Aug 29, 2013, 09:01 AM
i don't know any nexon games that requires you to pay 15$ monthly to just be able to trade lol
I would bring this up but Mabi used to be missing even more important gameplay mechanics (rebirthing, and transformations) for free players... so yeah. 8D This is actually why I'm kind of hoping SEGA starts... well making stuff like that free. If NEXON of all companies could pull it off, I don't see why SEGA can't. Maybe let us change our skill trees once a day for free, let free players have shops, but maybe place a limit (or a smaller one if there's one already) on the number of simultaneous items for sale. As long as they balance these well ( a good limit of items for free players to sell is 10, not 2 D:< ), I think it could work out... it's just that... unlike Nexon, SEGA has been remarkably bad about this *stares at the empty minirooms*, so my hopes aren't too high.

Korazenn
Aug 29, 2013, 11:49 AM
It feels like each time one thread gets so out-of-hand with the constant EN vs. JP Debate going on for Phantasy Star Online 2 and gets locked, another one opens. It's just like the drama in B20 about what system of next-generation is going to be better when neither system has been released yet.

It never ends...

gigawuts
Aug 29, 2013, 12:19 PM
I saw something about selling and F2P models and crap and I felt like posting this even though it might not necessarily be relevant:

Extra Credits: Microtransactions - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WXA559KNopI)

Yup, good breakdown. The whole system is flawed from the ground up. They use the recycle shop to create an artificial demand for AC scratch items. The entire game's economy hinges on the premise that there will always be a flow of AC items. They're probably operating on the (correct) assumption that as fewer people scratch AC items become more valuable, making it more enticing to use scratch.

But this is just a douchey system. They're just doing it as an afterthought; it's a bone thrown at the players who can't scratch the bathing suit they wanted. Amusingly, scratch actually works similarly to how grinding should: Even failures have worth.

The entire system is kept afloat purely by the recycle shop and grind protects. And what keeps the recycle shop afloat? The 20% affix boosters. What keeps the 20% affix boosters and grind protects afloat? The streak-prone affix and grinding system. They make it costly to not use these items. It may be more cost effective to use +1 protects in the long term, but they know full well a +1 protect will not guarantee you won't go from 9 to 1. They designed it that way on purpose.

People keep saying "other games" this and "other games" that. Just because other games are worse doesn't make this a good system. If I beat your face in do I get to say "Well Hitler blablabla" and look good? No, I just commit fucking assault.

Shadowth117
Aug 29, 2013, 12:59 PM
Yup, good breakdown. The whole system is flawed from the ground up. They use the recycle shop to create an artificial demand for AC scratch items. The entire game's economy hinges on the premise that there will always be a flow of AC items. They're probably operating on the (correct) assumption that as fewer people scratch AC items become more valuable, making it more enticing to use scratch.

But this is just a douchey system. They're just doing it as an afterthought; it's a bone thrown at the players who can't scratch the bathing suit they wanted. Amusingly, scratch actually works similarly to how grinding should: Even failures have worth.

The entire system is kept afloat purely by the recycle shop and grind protects. And what keeps the recycle shop afloat? The 20% affix boosters. What keeps the 20% affix boosters and grind protects afloat? The streak-prone affix and grinding system. They make it costly to not use these items. It may be more cost effective to use +1 protects in the long term, but they know full well a +1 protect will not guarantee you won't go from 9 to 1. They designed it that way on purpose.

People keep saying "other games" this and "other games" that. Just because other games are worse doesn't make this a good system. If I beat your face in do I get to say "Well Hitler blablabla" and look good? No, I just commit fucking assault.

I dunno, I kinda disagree. They did build this game from the ground up with micro-transactions in mind from what I can see, or if nothing else added them very early. In fact a lot of strategies the Extra Credits video brought up are used such as the drawing in more friends to play (you are only given advantages by playing with others), giving no *direct* power to players from purchasing AC currency, giving extra storage through this, and even really letting free players play with premium players in all missions so far that are multiplayer... I mean even scape dolls aren't obtainable normally and are more of a way to encourage you not to suck than anything it feels like to me.

It would even seem they accounted for the large number of players who would ac scratch and contribute to the recycle shop they added in. And they DID in fact test this during the closed beta (though I can't comment on alpha as I didn't play it). Yes, clearly that part of the game would have to have been way more thought out than others when creating features and content, but that's its own beast.

While I think we can all agree that parts of this dick over people who don't want to spend stupid amounts of money and there are many areas of the game that could have been done better, I think that F2P system in this game was thought out well and done overall very intentionally. While some things have obviously been very stupid such as storage RENTAL, myshop being less than myroom, and premium having far too few perks even now, I feel like this was a system that they experimented with in PSU partway through its lifetime and more or less fully realized in this game.

The scratch, weapon upgrading, ac shop, premium vs free... that was all there in PSU essentially. So I find it hard to believe they didn't consider it at all for this game given how well its apparently working. I'm not saying it couldn't be way better, but its certainly making them money.

gigawuts
Aug 29, 2013, 01:06 PM
I can experiment all I damn well want, but that doesn't mean I'll actually learn anything. Sega having done things on PSU isn't really good evidence that they now know what they're doing. Building the game with a system in mind does not inherently make that system good, either. Those are just a couple points that might help create a good system, but it doesn't make a good system on its own. If the core of the system is flawed, they can make a game around it and all the other listed stuff in that video - but the core of the system is still flawed.

Shadowth117
Aug 29, 2013, 01:56 PM
I can experiment all I damn well want, but that doesn't mean I'll actually learn anything. Sega having done things on PSU isn't really good evidence that they now know what they're doing. Building the game with a system in mind does not inherently make that system good, either. Those are just a couple points that might help create a good system, but it doesn't make a good system on its own. If the core of the system is flawed, they can make a game around it and all the other listed stuff in that video - but the core of the system is still flawed.

But is the core actually flawed as far as what they want to achieve? While players disliking a game and a game not doing very well are a standard correlation, they aren't mutually exclusive; for example, we have many players that are dissatisfied with the game, but, as dickish as the system is, still come back, play and possibly spend money. While some of these players may only play during big events/updates, they're still playing and still making SEGA the money they want. While I can't say their practices aren't poisoning these players towards their game in the long run, for a while many people will still play because there are parts of the game they genuinely like even though many parts are genuinely bad in their and many other eyes.

Unfortunately, the gaming industry is a business. Its not necessarily a nice business in all places either. But that doesn't mean that it doesn't work even in those places. This game has only really seen an increase in overall players over time, despite its flaws. Its been successful enough that they want to continue it for another decade. Flawed to the core or not, they've made it work somehow despite obvious problems. But clearly this game is far from dead despite scathing reviews and blatant issues. Its certainly no initial release Final Fantasy XIV. And while you may bring up your previous point of "just because there are worse games doesn't justify issues in this one", it doesn't. But this game is still going strong regardless because it has some things it does do very well, as evil as these practices may be.

gigawuts
Aug 29, 2013, 02:05 PM
But is the core actually flawed as far as what they want to achieve? While players disliking a game and a game not doing very well are a standard correlation, they aren't mutually exclusive; for example, we have many players that are dissatisfied with the game, but, as dickish as the system is, still come back, play and possibly spend money. While some of these players may only play during big events/updates, they're still playing and still making SEGA the money they want. While I can't say their practices aren't poisoning these players towards their game in the long run, for a while many people will still play because there are parts of the game they genuinely like even though many parts are genuinely bad in their and many other eyes.

Unfortunately, the gaming industry is a business. Its not necessarily a nice business in all places either. But that doesn't mean that it doesn't work even in those places. This game has only really seen an increase in overall players over time, despite its flaws. Its been successful enough that they want to continue it for another decade. Flawed to the core or not, they've made it work somehow despite obvious problems. But clearly this game is far from dead despite scathing reviews and blatant issues. Its certainly no initial release Final Fantasy XIV. And while you may bring up your previous point of "just because there are worse games doesn't justify issues in this one", it doesn't.

To address all of this in one sentence: Yes, I am definitely oversimplifying things. When taking business ethos into consideration there's absolutely nothing wrong with PSO2's approach. The problem arises here...


But this game is still going strong regardless because it has some things it does do very well, as evil as these practices may be.
It's going strong in an eastern market, which circles back to my initial point. Western gamers won't take this shit when another game is less restrictive and more rewarding for the same fee with more content and more players already playing it.

Some will play it, yes. Some also played PSU. Do we refer to that as successful as, say, GW2, though? TF2? Both of those games focus on rewarding players and making purchasing a thing of ease and convenience instead of removing a hassle.

edit: i accidentally a cardinal direction

Aussei
Aug 30, 2013, 05:55 PM
I feel indifferent about whether it gets released in America or not. I just enjoy and appreciate the experience I have on the Japanese servers for as long as I can. I live my PSO2 life day to day. Lol. Sega of America is probably afraid of losing money, not making enough money, or they don't even have enough money to run servers for the game. I don't look too much into it. Just enjoy the game however you want, if you want to.

Mystil
Aug 31, 2013, 08:45 AM
And again I don't give a damn. I didn't even bother with FFXIV(Which is going through the same thing Aion did at release. I thought SE was smarter than that).

If Sega does decide to bring it over, don't be expecting even 1 full server.


Phantasy Star has never really been a big thing in the west, partially because of cultural differences but also partially because Sega never actually pushes it very hard over here. I'm not sure how much liberty SoA would have with it in the west, but I can say some things in the JP version will definitely make westerners cringe.

You're right but only about the single player games.

PSODC through GC was a mega hit in the west. Sega only decided to send the online series into hell with no recovery with the advent of PSU.

gigawuts
Aug 31, 2013, 08:54 AM
You're right but only about the single player games.

PSODC through GC was a mega hit in the west. Sega only decided to send the online series into hell with no recovery with the advent of PSU.

Yeah, it was a hit. It was a far cry from a mega hit. Compare any number of MMOs to PSO, and you'll see a stark difference in player count.