What is sega thinking? X.x

[Skyly HUmar]

Anyone else watch the new content video on bumped? Apparently next update you will have the option to trade in top tier stones for extreme passes. Maybe im missing something but what are they thinking?

[Z-0]

You're wrong, for one.

It's the catalysts you trade in for passes. 1 catalyst for one pass.

To get a catalyst you have to spend 10 passes anyway. ...:v

[gigawuts]

The catalyst is for conversion, right?

So I'm sure there are plenty of catalysts just lying about, serving no purpose at all until this change since their owners aren't using them.

[Skyly HUmar]

but isnt the heart key item what you get fro trading 30 of the mid tier stones?

[Bellion]

There's a heartkey spellstone(30 2nd tier) and there's a heartkey catalyst. You use the catalyst to convert 3rd tiers to other 3rd tiers. And the one you trade in for a pass is the catalyst.

[Skyly HUmar]

There's a heartkey spellstone(30 2nd tier) and there's a heartkey catalyst. You use the catalyst to convert 3rd tiers to other 3rd tiers. And the one you trade in for a pass is the catalyst.

oh X.x been too long since ive finished a full ex then lol, i just found the catalyst again in my storage.

Im kinda surprised that i assumed the worst of it just by reading heartkey and seeing it getting traded for an ex pass, but then again sega hasnt been too good to this game.

[Rien]

Extreme quests are really wonky if you don't funnel all your passes into a single mobset.

[ShinMaruku]

Sega thinks?

[Sp-24]

Corporations are people, remember. And Sega is a dumb and greedy one.

[GreenArcher]

And yet the game is free to play..

[Z-0]

"Free to play" does not mean "You are supposed to play free".

Players are expected to pay for the services in game, so players should expect a professional service in all aspects of the game.

"The game is Free to Play" is a really bad argument and really should never be thrown around, because that's saying SEGA can make silly / dumb moves and apparently they're ok, right?

[Hrith]

Works the other way: too many people act like SEGA owes them anything. It's their game, everything that happens online belongs to them. 'SEGA can make stupid moves and get away with saying the game is free' is not literally an invalid argument, but it's no less subjective.

People should drop the mentality that can be summed up as: 'I did not get everything I myself personally expected, so I'll call SEGA a crappy company/PSO2 a silly game'.

[Adelheid]

Strawman at it's finest.

[jcart953]

Eww so the new xq pass thing is just from catalyst and not through my shop. That's lame....Well hopefully the new 11* xq weapons are worthwhile...come on 11* all class bow :)

[TaigaUC]

And yet the game is free to play..

Ah, another of those "it's free, it's not profiting in any way from all the people paying tons of cash for it, nor the ad revenue everytime we see a loading screen, which means all the people providing the service must be doing this out of the goodness of their hearts, so nobody has any right to complain because it should be immune to criticism for the reasons above" people.

Step one in "how to trick ignorant customers into willingly defending your product or service against criticism without being paid to do so":
Slap the word "free" somewhere on your product or service. It doesn't matter if it isn't actually free. They will believe it is, without question.
Then watch with glee as they sacrifice themselves and jump into battle to become your personal shields and bodyguards, for free.

If you couldn't already tell, it also works if you tell your country's citizens they are "free".
It's just something people want to believe and will fight to defend.


Works the other way: too many people act like SEGA owes them anything. It's their game, everything that happens online belongs to them. 'SEGA can make stupid moves and get away with saying the game is free' is not literally an invalid argument, but it's no less subjective.

People should drop the mentality that can be summed up as: 'I did not get everything I myself personally expected, so I'll call SEGA a crappy company/PSO2 a silly game'.

The problem is that many people do have VALID CONCERNS that are immediately dismissed using the ridiculous complaints as an excuse.


Maybe im missing something but what are they thinking?

Everything makes sense when you realize that many of the options in the game are designed to trick you into making irreversible mistakes that can only be repaired by repeating the same content over and over (or paying real money). It keeps people playing and paying, all according to plan.

For example, a person thinks they could spare an item to trade and subconsciously trusts SEGA for putting the option to exchange in - after all, why would they put it in if it wasn't beneficial or convenient in some way? They have pro game designers and testers, right? But then the person realizes afterwards that it was a terrible decision, and have to go back and redo it all over again.

Most people won't even blame SEGA for tempting them with poor design decisions, they will just blame themselves for falling for it, and others will blame them too.

[MetalDude]

Going F2P is not a free pass to designing the game in a really shitty manner. I don't disagree with the model of the game preferring you to pay money and whatnot, but even paying money in this game will not fix shitty drop rates and a terrible grinding and affixing system. It's inexcusable garbage.

[ShinMaruku]

Really people if this had a sub sega would do the same shit. Have you forgotten PSU?

[MetalDude]

It wouldn't change anything except for the mentality that now they couldn't get away with this shit (and they still did and they still are).

[Lumpen Thingy]

Going F2P is not a free pass to designing the game in a really shitty manner. I don't disagree with the model of the game preferring you to pay money and whatnot, but even paying money in this game will not fix shitty drop rates and a terrible grinding and affixing system. It's inexcusable garbage.

The current drop rates make rares actually rare,grinding gear makes even a meh weapon worth more money and finding stuff with good affixes are worth money. I mean the game is pretty easy as is do you really think Sega should just hold your fucking hand and make this easier too?

[Terrence]

Drop rates are low/random. So are grind success rates. If you don't agree, don't play. But stop saying SEGA is stupid. As I said before, I'm really tired of those young whiners expecting everything to be done for them. Yeah, it takes a lot of time and money to get the desired weapon and to grind it to +10 but that's the way Pso2 works. You scum were crying on another topic because the game was too easy and now you're crying because one aspect of it is too hard. F*CK !

[MetalDude]

There's a difference between a system that requires effort and a system that requires an incredible amount of aggravation and beating the odds over and over. Stop reading into it as wanting the game to hold my hand for fucks sake. It's like all you're capable of thinking is "Oh you clearly want the game to be easy". No, I want the game to not have terribly designed systems.

[gigawuts]

As I said before, I'm really tired of those young whiners expecting everything to be done for them.

And I hope you keep saying it, because it's hilarious that this is the conclusion you're drawing and I don't want to stop laughing this early in the day.

[jooozek]

guise the game is f2p u geddit??? people in gulags were also f2work and they got food and shit no reason to complain ok???

[GreenArcher]

Ah, another of those "it's free, it's not profiting in any way from all the people paying tons of cash for it, nor the ad revenue everytime we see a loading screen, which means all the people providing the service must be doing this out of the goodness of their hearts, so nobody has any right to complain because it should be immune to criticism for the reasons above" people.


That was in response to the SEGA DUMB N GREEDY OMG comment. The game is free to play. Sega is a for profit company so yes, they want you to pay up, and the free to play model is designed with incentives for you to cough up your cash. By no means is their system greedy. This is the best handled free to play model I have ever witnessed. You can get by just fine without spending a dime if you play smart. Or you can be well off by spending the equivalent of a monthly subscription.

The drop rates are indeed low in this game, but we have all of the trade in weapons. Now we can very easily make them 50%. Run an advanced quest for a day and you'll have a weapon that's a few points short of the best. Grinding used to be awful, now it is a lot easier. Affixing is easy for 1-3 slots, above that is very difficult for good reason. Diminishing returns are what keeps these types of games running.

[gigawuts]

Well the issue isn't difficulty, it's the randomness.

I would welcome a consistent yet difficult or expensive system. Eagerly!

What I dislike is the lack of assured success over the long term. It's likely, but not assured. That's the problem. Everyone here is likely to run into an obscenely long failure streak. The same way the odds are in your favor for a 90% affix, the odds are against your favor over the span enough rolls. You're very likely to encounter a long streak of failures with no way to actually combat it besides just giving up.

edit: For an example, I didn't complain about the "difficulty" of endgame leveling in PSO1. It wasn't random. Imagine if every time you leveled up after level 100 you had to roll, and there was an 80% chance you'd lose levels. That's this game.

[Sp-24]

Stop whining, you can a get level protect from recycle shop AND a +5% chance booster for 5 Excubes. Sure, you can only use one of the two, but what, you expect handholding?

Geez, I hate people who don't appreciate a good challenge.

[Z-0]

What's "hard" about grinding or affixing in this game? Once I get my "method" down for doing things, it's just press confirm 1,000 times and hope it works.

It's not a challenge, it's an aggravation to try and weed money out of people.

[Enforcer MKV]

This is the best handled free to play model I have ever witnessed.

Er...what other F2P models have you witnessed? There are one or two models that I like more, but I'd like to compare notes.

[gigawuts]

Stop whining, you can a get level protect from recycle shop AND a +5% chance booster for 5 Excubes. Sure, you can only use one of the two, but what, you expect handholding?

Geez, I hate people who don't appreciate a good challenge.

this is sarcasm right

because I can't tell, some real poe's law shit going on in this thread

[yoshiblue]

It was moved. Hmm...

[CelestialBlade]

There's pretty much no challenge, strategy, or accomplishment in a purely random system. I think that's why the game progressively felt more empty to me. Finding a great weapon or maxing it out isn't an accomplishment, you just happened to get lucky. Terrible system that's used by too many games.

[GreenArcher]

Er...what other F2P models have you witnessed? There are one or two models that I like more, but I'd like to compare notes.

Well I guess to be fair most of my notes are from Korean grinders :wacko:

[Enforcer MKV]

Well I guess to be fair most of my notes are from Korean grinders :wacko:

Fuuuuuuuuuuu!

But to that end, this model has glaring flaws, game balancing aside. I could be a lot harsher, but I'm not in the habit of outright bashing other people.

[Skyly HUmar]

The game itself isnt hard, just getting what you want. I would prefer they raise enemy speeds by 6 times, double their damage, and give them 20 times the hp (exageration ofcourse but you get the point, killing shit without taking damage is too easy), make rares about 10-100 times easier to find (lol 2 dragon slayers a week) and instead of having this grinding/afixing system, let it be like psp2 where it cost way too much to upgrade but it would always succeed.

I enjoy a good hunt, but cmon, were in VH mode and most things now are as hard or even harder to get than 90% of the shit in pso1 ultimate mode. Not to mention that unlike pso1 whatever you get will be obsolete in about 2 weeks because something with 15 more attack will be out.

[Nitro Vordex]

Drop rates are low/random. So are grind success rates. If you don't agree, don't play. But stop saying SEGA is stupid. As I said before, I'm really tired of those young whiners expecting everything to be done for them. Yeah, it takes a lot of time and money to get the desired weapon and to grind it to +10 but that's the way Pso2 works. You scum were crying on another topic because the game was too easy and now you're crying because one aspect of it is too hard. F*CK !
Everyone keep in mind he comes from PSO1. Where grinds were guaranteed (!) and the drop rates were plausible (!!!).

Go to bed, grampa.

[Wyndham]

I know the Vita isn't hugely popular, but I'm sad that there are no announcements for PSO2 or Project Diva f on the Vita in the US.

[Mike]

Everyone keep in mind he comes from PSO1. Where grinds were guaranteed (!) and the drop rates were plausible (!!!).
You don't have to even go back that far to find a Phantasy Star game where grinds were guaranteed and drop rates were plausible.

[Nitro Vordex]

You don't have to even go back that far to find a Phantasy Star game where grinds were guaranteed and drop rates were plausible.
I don't know of any games between PSO and PSU, none that I played, anyway. I thought PSU also did not guarantee grinds. It's been a /long/ time since I played it.

[Enforcer MKV]

I don't know of any games between PSO and PSU, none that I played, anyway. I thought PSU also did not guarantee grinds. It's been a /long/ time since I played it.

PSZ.

Dammit, 5char.

[Mike]

Yup, all the Portables too. No grind failing and decent drop rates.

[Nilkemios]

Sega thinks?

No, but hey, when have they ever?

[yoshiblue]

The Dreamcast is always thinking. :turtle: