double step, triple step, quad step question

[pkemr4]

1. what tree is best for using these steps
2. which one is noob friendly
3. what are best weapons for doing it
4. what are the diference between
5. how much faster is it then normal running

[NeverDT]

1. anything with step attack
2. double step is obviously the easiest, LA triple is easy, weapon switch triple is easy if you don't have an awful comp like me and quad is easy if you can do either of the above because you just have to learn the other part. all in all, none of them are that difficult, you can learn any of them in like an hour and practice them in TA
3. twin daggers, because their step attack is fast (or they would be if the allclass twin daggers weren't incredibly laggy, more so than other weapons, on switch)
4. self-explanatory
5. quad > triple = knuckle dash > double > running

triple is considerably faster, quad will leave people who can't do either in the dust. if hunter is a main or sub you'll frequently do weapon switches to spam assault buster to cover even more ground

most people do not quad in (JPN) TA with people who aren't at least tripling because of the above fact

[Bellion]

Here's a visual for the differences:
[SPOILER-BOX]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u4eixX6NreY"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u4eixX6NreY[/SPOILER-BOX]

[Howl]

And what about if you use camoed twin daggers + knunckles?
Is twin daggers + knunkles quad dash faster, slower or equal to both twin daggers triple dash?

[NeverDT]

afaik it should pretty much be the same

[Chdata]

You could t-dash with two gunslashes if you wanted to and it'd be as good as t-daggers as far as I know.

At least I have a friend who does that and outruns t-dagger peeps, but he quads. I dunno if the step attack makes a great difference or anything.

[pkemr4]

so... whats the steps for doing double, triple and quad?

[yunamon]

I'm curious too since there's nigh to nothing I can find on the step-to-step tutorial...

I only know Knuckle dash myself: (Requires Knuckle Gear) hold primary attack > repeatedly press dodge button + (optional) auto-run (so you only need to control facing instead of directional buttons)

[SakoHaruo]

use google translate. there are many tutorials on niconico and you don't need to know Japanese to understand how things work.

[NeverDT]

quoted from syhard, this is for quad:


"what i do is i dash->weapon switch, LA->dash, jumpdash, jumpdash-> step atk. the timing comes to everyone a little differently, so fiddle around with it and see what timing works best for you."

I LA dash like this:

hold down w -> dash -> hold alt (to do an LA shortcut in the middle of the dash) -> dash -> jumpdash -> step attack -> dash -> hold alt...

idr how regular triple works

[Z-0]

At least I have a friend who does that and outruns t-dagger peeps, but he quads. I dunno if the step attack makes a great difference or anything.
Step attack makes a great difference, but it also depends if you're good at dashing to execute it quickly.

The thing with gunslash dashing is that if you want to be faster than dashing with twin daggers, you must spend PP to do endless dashes. The way it works is that you can cancel a charge PA (such as aiming shot) with a dash, so that you can start the sequence all over again. Adding to this though, anyone with a Hunter sub could just use Assault Buster, so...

When it comes to learning dashes, you need to know how cancelling works. Simply put:

A dash can be cancelled by jumping, a lobby action, or attack with step attack or a Photon Art (step attack on a tree is required for step attack, of course) at a specific point towards the end of the animation. It CANNOT be cancelled by weapon switches, but you can force a weapon switch by jumping during the dash.

Note: Step attack always optional, it makes things faster if you have it.

Double Dash: Dash -> Jump Cancel -> Dash -> Step Attack -> Repeat

Start learning this. The way it works is that you can cancel your first dash with a jump, in which you dash immediately afterwards.

Triple Dash: Switch Weapon -> Dash (before the weapon switches!) -> Jump Cancel (your weapon will switch here) -> Dash -> Jump Cancel -> Dash -> Step Attack -> Repeat

The first thing you'll need to get the hang of is cancelling your dash with the weapon switch. Try just switching your weapon, dashing and then jumping to see if you get the timing right. If it's right, your dash will cancel and you'll just be stood still. Once you get the hang of this, the procedure is just the double dash sequence.

Alternative Triple Dash: Lobby Action (not through a shortcut) -> Dash (before the lobby action occurs!) -> Dash -> Jump Cancel -> Dash -> Step Attack -> Repeat

Unlike weapon switches, lobby actions don't require you to jump to cancel the dash, you can just press dash again. For keyboard users, the easiest way to use a lobby action is to hold w (cuz you know, you're moving forward), and just tap Alt. For pad users, you will want to bind alt + something to a button.

Quad Dash: Lobby Action and Switch Weapon -> Dash -> Dash -> Jump Cancel (Weapon Switch) -> Dash -> Jump Cancel -> Dash -> Step Attack -> Repeat

Essentially just a combination of the two triple dash methods. If using LA and weapon switch at the same time is hard for you, use your LA first and then press the weapon switch during the dash animation (although not too late, or your weapon isn't going to switch!).

It is best if you can learn the dash techniques without any sort of macros to do them for you (although having something to press lobby action and weapon switch at the same time is fine -- this is what I do), as there are times you might overstep or not want to jump (cuz buttons) if you're using a macro. They're counter-intuitive and don't really help.

Just practice and you'll get the hang of it pretty quickly! It's fun to do and there's nothing silly/stupid about it, providing you enjoy it. As a word of warning though, try to avoid dashing with the following weapons in random parties:

Oboro
Nishiki
Twin Reaping/Licht
Blade Dance
The new Chain Sawd Daggers
+ some others I most likely forgot

As these all have a high chance of causing FPS drops for most people. It doesn't happen to everyone, and it doesn't happen all the time (one day my FPS will drop by 40 each time someone switches to these, sometimes it won't drop at all). Feel free to do it by yourself, or with people you can ask if they're lagging from your dashes or not.

Have fun, and if anything is confusing, give me a calls.

[hoangsea]

i often doing step like this

dash> jump cancel > dash > jump cancel > dash > step attack > weapon switch > step attack
(repeat)

idk is this double or tri-dash ...

[Korazenn]

Seems like people who use a controller would be screwed unless they rearranged the button combos to suit the weapon switching.

In this case, wouldn't it be better for weapon switching to be delegated to R1, or the Select button, while R2 is used for dodge and Triangle used for PAs? Seems to make sense to me when I work it out in my head (don't have the game open, so I can't try this out myself just yet).

Anywho, thanks for all of the information on this! Clears up a LOT about the different methods of dashing.

[SakoHaruo]

Seems like people who use a controller would be screwed unless they rearranged the button combos to suit the weapon switching.

In this case, wouldn't it be better for weapon switching to be delegated to R1, or the Select button, while R2 is used for dodge and Triangle used for PAs? Seems to make sense to me when I work it out in my head (don't have the game open, so I can't try this out myself just yet).

Anywho, thanks for all of the information on this! Clears up a LOT about the different methods of dashing.

My controller setup for Quad Dashing

[spoiler-box]http://i.imgur.com/T2VMsjd.jpg[/spoiler-box]

I like it this way so I can manually adjust my timing if I get lag, very clean too. Everything else is in game controls.

How it looks: R2 > X > R2 > R1 > Dwn D-Pad > Square~R2 > R2 > X > R2 > X > R2 > R1 > Up D-Pad > repeat from weapon switch, LA~dash

Depending on where you live, if you were to try and use my setup your timing would be much different than mines.

[Chdata]

I just want to learn an arbitrary dash I can do as FoTe ;p

[GALEFORCE]

They just need to make a teleport tech and give us hover boards.

[KuroKanden]

How does one normally quad while double tapping? I find the sequence seemingly hard to execute(adding the LA) since I normally double tap for my triples as opposed to binding a single key for the dash ; still trying to get outa this habit. for the record I do the weapon switch triples.

EDIT : using side binds for dash helped, but I've still yet to accustom myself to it lol

[Kondibon]

They just need to make a teleport tech and give us hover boards.

I agree, this reminds me of the people who make swiftness builds just to get around in GW2. The funny part is that if anyone asks for mounts everyone is like "NO! THIS ISN'T WOW! WE DON'T NEED MOUNTS!"

I was love some sort of way to get around faster without having you give your self carpal tunnel.

[Howl]

I just want to learn an arbitrary dash I can do as FoTe ;p

As Z-0 said step attack just speed up the dash, so i think you can simply quad without step attack.

[cainm]

Is there a way to do this on the PSP Vita?

[Z-0]

Really difficult on the PS Vita. Probably impossible if you're not in Japan (scroll through palette quickly to change weapons).

Chdata, just step with two gunslashes (triple/quad), and use aiming shot at the end of them and start the sequence immediately afterwards. This gives you an "infinite dash" depending on how much PP you spend.

Also "increasing movement speed" would be boring.

[Nitro Vordex]

I was love some sort of way to get around faster without having you give your self carpal tunnel.
This is mostly why I haven't given a shit about dashing, I don't really feel like I'm wasting time either way. If I need to get over there I usually just step, knuckle attack, step knuckle attack and continue. Easiest thing to do, and I still gotta go fast.

[pkemr4]

how can i build a gu/hu step attack build?

[NeverDT]

multidashing does not give you carpal tunnel


how can i build a gu/hu step attack build?

by putting step attack on your hunter tree

[pkemr4]

multidashing does not give you carpal tunnel



by putting step attack on your hunter tree

i know this. but how can i build it without losing alot of damage?

[NeverDT]

i know this. but how can i build it without losing alot of damage?

step attack requires a grand total of 4 points on a hunter tree

you can still put 10 points in fury, fury 1, fury combo and JA 1+2

[Remz69]

Alternative Triple Dash: Lobby Action (not through a shortcut) -> Dash (before the lobby action occurs!) -> Dash -> Jump Cancel -> Dash -> Step Attack -> Repeat



this just doesn't work for me :/
lobby action is so slow to trigger than even dash->dash is faster

[Z-0]

start menu -> cmd in search bar (or run) -> ping yahoo.jp -t

My ping is around 280-300ms, and pressing LA just before the dash works fine for me. If your ping is any higher though, it's most likely that your connection to the server isn't good enough.

[Remz69]

start menu -> cmd in search bar (or run) -> ping yahoo.jp -t

My ping is around 280-300ms, and pressing LA just before the dash works fine for me. If your ping is any higher though, it's most likely that your connection to the server isn't good enough.

i must be doing something wrong then, cause my ping is 185ms (which i think is not too bad considering japan is literally on the other side of the world and my connection is only average)

i got it to work if i don't hold w (z for me, i'm on an azerty) and do dash->la->dash
but if i hold any key before and while i impute the above, it doesn't work

[pkemr4]

well i got fighter unlocked and used it as fodder for step attack... so hard to tell if im doing triple or double with twin daggers...

[Remz69]

well, now i can quad dash :D ..... that is is if don't hold forward .... i just don't get it anymore

edit: actually, i get it, if i hold forward, the la just won't happen... now i don't know how to fix that
oh well, i tried, triple dashing will have to do

[Chdata]

My fingers are jellen.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pNYq9YpumUI

Am I doin it right? (pretend I don't actually have Fi sub).

I hold W down or whatever direction I want during all of this. Should I learn not to hold it down?

Thanks a ton z-0 ;o

You're still no [A-Za-z0-9_] though.

[Kamekur]

My fingers are jellen.

Triple dash - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pNYq9YpumUI)

Am I doin it right? (pretend I don't actually have Fi sub).

I hold W down or whatever direction I want during all of this. Should I learn not to hold it down?

Go help in that burst lol.

Yes, that's how it's supposed to look without step attack. Try to get used to letting go of W, if you get used to holding it, you're gonna have problems once you want to include LAs, since as long as you hold W, you can't steer.

Here are some examples of how quad dash looks like, for when you want to get into it:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_e1pJ4O2emQ



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cRej00j9P3s

Of course, you don't have to be a tryhard like Esofor use numpad to switch palettes. I personally feel comfortable using 1-0.

[GALEFORCE]

Also "increasing movement speed" would be boring.

What you call fun, I call tedium. It's bad enough having to waste a weapon slot to step attack dash. Having to waste two for a partisan is out of the question for my ranged classes.

[Kamekur]

What you call fun, I call tedium. It's bad enough having to waste a weapon slot to step attack dash. Having to waste two for a partisan is out of the question for my ranged classes.

I don't think you need more than 4 TMG palettes as Gunner thanks to the new S Roll, and Rangers always have space for Partizan and daggers. I usually roll with 3 palettes, using quad dash. I LA dash with Gu on quests that I also need Additional Bullet/Elder Rebellion.

[Chdata]

As gunner I only need 3 TMG palettes at most and see no situation where I'd need a 4th unless I decide I want to use Messiah time some day.

[GALEFORCE]

Gunner:
Messiah Time
Infinity Fire
Deadly Approach (or satellite aim for gu/ra)
Elder Rebellion
Heel Stab
BS dagger thing

Ranger:
Additional Bullet
Aiming Shot
Rifle
Thrillersplode
Launcher
BS dagger thing

I really don't want to dump anything else for travel speed. If anything, I'd love to get rid of the daggers for more PA diversity.

[Kamekur]

Gunner:
Messiah Time
Infinity Fire
Deadly Approach (or satellite aim for gu/ra)
Elder Rebellion
Heel Stab
BS dagger thing

Ranger:
Additional Bullet
Aiming Shot
Rifle
Thrillersplode
Launcher
BS dagger thing

I really don't want to dump anything else for travel speed. If anything, I'd love to get rid of the daggers for more PA diversity.

Neither Ranger or Gunner can use Bloody Sarabande unless you sub Fighter (stupid idea). You can put Deadly Approach as your 2nd and 3rd palette on all your TMG palettes, since you (99% of the time) want to use PAs after S Roll. Infinite Fire works as good (most of the time better) than Elder Rebellion. Satellite Aim only has an use in 1 or 2 situations.

I don't remember the last time I ever used Aiming Shot since I have other options that can be as efficient. You don't always need Additional Bullet (surprise!), nor Thrillplosion. And Partizans can actually be used to kill (in TAs of course).

You can always switch palettes depending on what you need. Set your palettes on campship according to what would be most effective.

[GALEFORCE]

BS didn't stand for Bloody Sarbande, lol.

Deadly Approach I keep on its own because sometimes you want to use them consecutively. I do that with Aerial Shooting on my ER palette anyway, in case I want airtime.

If I'd give up anything on rahu, it'd be launcher probably. Unless I'm dealing with mechs or micda. Even then I'd love to have the new GS PA to set up predicahda for thriller headshots. I have to admit AS is pretty underpowered these days though.

Call it laziness, but I like having a palette that can deal with anything I need it to. Switching so I can grind out button combos for faster movement speed is tedious. I'd much prefer they work out an actual intended game mechanic for it.

[Kamekur]

BS didn't stand for Bloody Sarbande, lol.
If I'd give up anything on rahu, it'd be launcher probably.


I only remove it on Amduscia TA area 2, because it's the only place it doesn't have an use. EDIT: In Quarry too, nothing can be easily headshotted.



Call it laziness, but I like having a palette that can deal with anything I need it to. Switching so I can grind out button combos for faster movement speed is tedious. I'd much prefer they work out an actual intended game mechanic for it.

I don't blame you. Aside from wanting to squeeze time in TAs or simply wanting to play efficiently, there's not much of a motivation to change your palettes constantly. I do admit it's tedious to switch palettes (I'm always the last one to jump to the gates during tacos), but, in my opinion, those 7 extra seconds I take in campship save a lot of time on the field.

However, I do like dashing. Mainly because it's not easy to do, it takes a certain skill level to execute it and it's quite fun when you know how to dash. It also adds a new spice to a gameplay which otherwise would be dull, repetitive, boring (Let's be honest: What would TAs be like without dashing? No, what would this game be like? A virtual wardrobe? The only "endgame" we have so far is Time Attack, and making money due to RNG. No one wants to AQ anymore now that bursts are nerfed) .

[SakoHaruo]

Go help in that burst lol.

Yes, that's how it's supposed to look without step attack. Try to get used to letting go of W, if you get used to holding it, you're gonna have problems once you want to include LAs, since as long as you hold W, you can't steer.

Here are some examples of how quad dash looks like, for when you want to get into it:

Quad Dash (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_e1pJ4O2emQ)


How it looks outside. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cRej00j9P3s)

Of course, you don't have to be a tryhard like Esofor use numpad to switch palettes. I personally feel comfortable using 1-0.

Holyshit them FINGAS :-o

I play on controller and my fingers are always in chill-mode when executing the quad. I guess it's because I main fighting games.

[Remz69]

Try to get used to letting go of W, if you get used to holding it, you're gonna have problems once you want to include LAs, since as long as you hold W, you can't steer.



and there i stood thinking i was doing something wrong when i actually figured that and had it in the bag, what a fucking idiot i am
i am certainly good at making a fool out of myself though, i got that going for me

[.Jack]

Is any of this possible to do as Braver/Force?

[Z-0]

I don't use a keyboard so I was always told that you should hold w but idk.

Dashes are possible on every class, you just need to use weapons which have step (for anything with no melee weapons, you want all-class weapons or gunslashes). Step attack is an optional exit to reduce lag between your next dash.

[Rehal]

Gunslash should do...it's harder to perform tridash without step attack though. ;w;
Knuckle & Twin Daggers's step attack launch you forward a bit so it also helps with speed.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SQQ-x3aQP1U"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SQQ-x3aQP1U

@Kamekur lol that god hands... >w>

[Chdata]

Is any of this possible to do as Braver/Force?

I made a video of me doing them for the first time as FoFi without really using step attacks, on the previous page.

And I just tried it now as FoTe and it worked.


So how does this Additional Shot cancel work exactly? I tried earlier, but I just fire a shot and get slowed down a lot.

[Esofor]

Gunslash should do...it's harder to perform tridash without step attack though. ;w;
Knuckle & Twin Daggers's step attack launch you forward a bit so it also helps with speed.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SQQ-x3aQP1U

@Kamekur lol that god hands... >w>

where's the quad dash!!

and dxtory =(

bandicam master race

edit: chdata, you dash out of the charging animation of aiming shot

[Rehal]

It's Aiming Shot, not Additional OwO
You do a dash while holding your PA button (dash while you are charing)

I don't like to do those dashes as a Fo/Te...feel it's not really worth it. As Fo/Br you can do Knuckle/T.Daggers tridash though. OwOb


where's the quad dash!!

and dxtory =(

bandicam master race
Still figuring my LA timing, tried to copy you and success 2 or 3 times but it's so slow :C
Bandicam good? OwO

[Esofor]

but if you quad + aiming shot, you usually outrun knuckle dashers! provided you have infinite pp or something idk

[Rehal]

But I'm lazy! :C

[.Jack]

I made a video of me doing them for the first time as FoFi without really using step attacks, on the previous page.

And I just tried it now as FoTe and it worked.

Ah, that's pretty neat. I've seen people do that quite often and was wondering how people were doing it.

[ChocoboRRR]

Ah, that's pretty neat. I've seen people do that quite often and was wondering how people were doing it.

Don't press weapon switch directly after jump dash. It's when you character just landing single feet on ground then doing weapon switch and repeat sequal. As for Quad dash you want press ALT button where you character don't lock on no dash. + for people who getting random little lag holding ALT button on ya no lock dash to end of yours first dash is best way free lags.

[Adelheid]

Stupid question, how do you switch weapons without going through the palette menu?

[Aka]

Keyboard shortcuts/Number Pad

[Rehal]

Numpad key like this one here >w>


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cRej00j9P3s

Can be changed to 1~0 or F1~F10 ingame's options.

[Cyron Tanryoku]

shit just get me a macro im too old for this shit

[Zenobia]

So far I am trying to do it liek this at the end he pulls off that GS fast quad shit with pp usage I am like wtf lol.

http://http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J_2imxG6a-E

[Chdata]

triple dash for FoTe so I have something to move fast if I don't have FoFi knucks

and potential to learn dat infinite dash cause my fire tree has 10 pp convert

also will be useful for dashing as GuHu on remilia because no step attack

[Z-0]

Essentially, you "hold" the button and dash out of it with your normal dash sequence. It's faster than step attack dashing, but consumes PP (on anything with Hunter in your combo somewhere, this PP is better spent on Assault Buster).

I do it plenty times in this video:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=euce1U70PpA

[Chdata]

Essentially, you "hold" the button and dash out of it with your normal dash sequence. It's faster than step attack dashing, but consumes PP (on anything with Hunter in your combo somewhere, this PP is better spent on Assault Buster).

I do it plenty times in this video:

?PSO2?VH????????8:19 ???TA?FoTe - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=euce1U70PpA)

Alright, just how are you hitting 73k-100k. As FoTe I have both charge masteries and most of the JA bonus (mix around a bit between my fire/lightning tree) and dark mastery maxed with element weak hit maxed using a demon fork with 3 potential and I only hit 50k at most and 45k ish on average with a JA. I saw another guy who hits 80k regularly.

I'm 58/55 FoTe. Could it just be because my units don't have at least 60 t-atk on them? Could those last levels really make that much difference? (usually after you get the % bonuses, not really).

[Zenobia]

Alright, just how are you hitting 73k-100k. As FoTe I have both charge masteries and most of the JA bonus (mix around a bit between my fire/lightning tree) and dark mastery maxed with element weak hit maxed using a demon fork with 3 potential and I only hit 50k at most and 45k ish on average with a JA. I saw another guy who hits 80k regularly.

Probably affixes and well choice of units.

Also pure tech mag gonna throw that out der if it wasn't obv.

[Chdata]

DnK taught me the LA dash ;p

Now to combine triple and LA and quad ;o

And Aim shot, which I also managed from the descriptions here.

Edit: Though, can I get more info on the timing of when you press your LA for LA dashing? Oftentimes it seems that even with the exact same inputs that do work, sometimes LA dashing screws up for me somehow? I can't seem to reliably do it as fast as weapon switch dashing. Currently I...

Hold w
Dash, hold alt, dash and release alt, then continue to the usual jump cancel dash.

This seems to work fine some of the time (about 50/50 really), and other times not. Is there something stricter about this timing I'm not getting? It is highly unlikely due to lag, as I did this in a campship on a block with noone else in MPAs with no EQs happening.

As soon as I can manage to do this as fast as I triple, I'll try practicing quad dashing ;p

On top of that, how exactly do you time your Aim shot cancel? I dunno if it's just trickier with triple dashing or something (as you quad dash with it) but I feel kinda clumsy when I do it and often mess up my weapon switch triple dash when trying to throw in an AS dash.

edit: I think I figured it out on my own by imitating the timing for my weapon switch tdashing.