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MetalDude
Sep 19, 2013, 10:49 AM
The latent on Yas is the primary thing keeping them relevant. They're the equivalent of 10SP into a ZRA skill at Lv. 3 which is very substantial.

Rexob
Sep 19, 2013, 11:04 AM
The latent on Yas is the primary thing keeping them relevant. They're the equivalent of 10SP into a ZRA skill at Lv. 3 which is very substantial.

Oh I totally agree...I have a nice 50 ele +10 Y9K...16% dmg is pretty hefty, and noticeable; although some on the GU forums disagree.

jooozek
Sep 19, 2013, 11:14 AM
The latent on Yas is the primary thing keeping them relevant. They're the equivalent of 10SP into a ZRA skill at Lv. 3 which is very substantial.

it's actually much, much worse than ZRA because you have to be touching whatever you are shooting unlike ZRA which kicks in quite far away from the enemies

MetalDude
Sep 19, 2013, 11:27 AM
Wait wait wait, you're telling me that they idiotically made it so the ZRA latent behaves like pre-GU buff ZRA?

What the fuck?

The Walrus
Sep 19, 2013, 11:43 AM
http://i.imgur.com/YuUTevZ.png

MetalDude
Sep 19, 2013, 11:53 AM
Welp, cool. As soon as this week ends and Yas go back up, I'm selling mine for 15+ mil and getting a Flamme Revolver. G-fuckin' G.

gigawuts
Sep 19, 2013, 12:12 PM
They didn't make the latent that way, they just didn't update the latent when they updated the skill.

Besides, I actually find that fairly balanced.

MetalDude
Sep 19, 2013, 12:30 PM
As far as Messiah Time is concerned, I find it always active at least. Unless it's a boss, I'm more often at mid-range than GU ZRA range anyways. It just seems like a ridiculous oversight.

Then again, making probably one of the currently most easily obtainable 10* TMGs one of the strongest TMGs available would be a bit overkill so I see what you're getting at.

Z-0
Sep 19, 2013, 12:41 PM
Funny, because when they edited ZRA they did say they edited Zero Effort...

from bumped:


Expanded the range for Gunner skill “Zero Range Advance.” (Zero Effort latent ability receives the same adjustment.)

Rexob
Sep 19, 2013, 12:45 PM
it's actually much, much worse than ZRA because you have to be touching whatever you are shooting unlike ZRA which kicks in quite far away from the enemies

http://bumped.org/psublog/pso2-jp-illusory-onslaught-update-part-2/

Scroll down to Gunner Balance Changes

If anyone feels like testing it, knock yourself out. For myself, anything close enough to MT I have both bonuses anyways...I don't make a habit of using ER when that close.

jooozek
Sep 19, 2013, 12:49 PM
http://bumped.org/psublog/pso2-jp-illusory-onslaught-update-part-2/

Scroll down to Gunner Balance Changes

just because it was mentioned in may doesn't mean its not fucked up now and i'm telling from my own y9000m usage that you have to be basically point blank :-?

Rexob
Sep 19, 2013, 12:54 PM
just because it was mentioned in may doesn't mean its not fucked up now and i'm telling from my own y9000m usage that you have to be basically point blank :-?

Funny because I'm telling from my own y9000m usage that you do NOT have to be basically point blank...see the problem, neither of us actually has any hard evidence, but ty for the contribution :-D

MetalDude
Sep 19, 2013, 01:39 PM
just because it was mentioned in may doesn't mean its not fucked up now and i'm telling from my own y9000m usage that you have to be basically point blank :-?


Funny because I'm telling from my own y9000m usage that you do NOT have to be basically point blank...see the problem, neither of us actually has any hard evidence, but ty for the contribution :-D

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-UfLd4I2lPcM/Td0lHTWfCEI/AAAAAAAACSA/KN6lpe4hCws/s1600/enhanced-buzz-7457-1306300876-1.jpg

I don't know what to believe anymore.

jooozek
Sep 19, 2013, 01:41 PM
Funny because I'm telling from my own y9000m usage that you do NOT have to be basically point blank...see the problem, neither of us actually has any hard evidence, but ty for the contribution :-D

here is an excercise for you: go to the limited quest selection, pick falz arms, equip your y9000m with infinite fire on it, drop from the ship go to the teleport, watch the cutscene, and start using infinite fire without interrupting it till you get to point blank before exploding shots on any weakspot from a far distance and as you get to point blank pay attention
to actually benefit from the potential you need to shot stuff at point blank range
edit: also i just went ahead and compared fleetmalinca (50 light, +60 R-ATK in affixes so total 945 R-ATK) against my yasminkov (33 fire, +10 R-ATK in affixes so total 830 R-ATK) - i normally wear vader set with each piece affixed with +60 R-ATK and the set bonus gives +45 R-ATK, for testing fleetmalinca i removed one piece thus removing 105 R-ATK for a little leeway and the result on falz arms from a sroll JA on infinite was 1800ish on yasminkov in the mid range and 2000ish for fleetmalinca
edit2: pics related: http://i.imgur.com/Zqat4q3.jpg http://i.imgur.com/F6mYfCI.jpg

Rexob
Sep 19, 2013, 02:42 PM
Your test is really bad...

First off Falz Arms is weak to Light and NOT fire.

Second removing 1 piece of Vardha Armor, negating 105 RATK, does not adequately compensate for the 17% element differential, and especially the fact that the Falz arms are taking additional bonus dmg because of the Light weakness...

Basically your test is incredibly skewed for those two reasons entirely, and very inaccurate.

jooozek
Sep 19, 2013, 02:43 PM
i like how you just went for what you could argue without testing the range thing
pso-w after all

Rexob
Sep 19, 2013, 02:46 PM
i like how you just went for what you could argue without testing the range thing
pso-w after all

If your test had any "weight" or validity, maybe...but how you presented it, is incredibly flawed...Thanks for liking my post too! I love having your support jooozek even when we disagree! Why I <3 the PSO-W community!

jooozek
Sep 19, 2013, 02:49 PM
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-UfLd4I2lPcM/Td0lHTWfCEI/AAAAAAAACSA/KN6lpe4hCws/s1600/enhanced-buzz-7457-1306300876-1.jpg

I don't know what to believe anymore.

tl;dr yasminkov is shit


If your test had any "weight" or validity, maybe...but how you presented it, is incredibly flawed...Thanks for liking my post too! I love having your support jooozek even when we disagree! Why I <3 the PSO-W community!

the amazing part is that the element difference on my fleetmalinca is 1% more than the % of the potential on yas which goes for all R-ATK and not just the weapons R-ATK excluding affixes lawl

Rexob
Sep 19, 2013, 02:50 PM
tl;dr yasminkov is shit

just like your skewed test :-D

Bellion
Sep 19, 2013, 03:06 PM
Okay, now this is odd. I think some of us are thinking that ZRA is ranges beyond what it should be. Looks like Yasminkov's ability and ZRA are in the same activation ranges. However, I don't understand why we are getting people that say ZRA's bonus gets activated at different ranges.

Guess I'm taking back what I said.

jooozek
Sep 19, 2013, 03:42 PM
preface: falz arms multiplier to light is 1.2x, de malmoths multiplier to fire is 1.3x
(https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/pub?key=0AuOEafhUgifydGptRmZmVDl6ZWl5VU5UYXVudEtVL VE&output=html)
same conditions as previous test i.e. infinite fire from a sroll ja and unequipping one part of vader set
http://i.imgur.com/t7qAQ4M.jpg http://i.imgur.com/3LXV8wK.jpg

The Walrus
Sep 19, 2013, 03:44 PM
Why are you taking off a part of the set again?

jooozek
Sep 19, 2013, 03:45 PM
Why are you taking off a part of the set again?
to offset a little bit of r-atk for shit and giggles

in any case, point is, unless you facesit on whatever you are shoting, you aren't getting worth of shit out of yasminkov

Bellion
Sep 19, 2013, 04:10 PM
[SPOILER-BOX]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Oe5o-yU5zQ"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Oe5o-yU5zQ[/SPOILER-BOX]

At the same ranges:
Yasminkov 3200 damage per IF->5000 damage per IF
Surukurai 3400 damage per IF->4500 damage per IF
I made sure TMG gear was maxed at those points.

Yeah, ZRA and Zero Effort do have the same ranges.

Achievements: Finding 0 Yasminkov while almost everyone else finds one!

gigawuts
Sep 19, 2013, 04:11 PM
[SPOILER-BOX]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Oe5o-yU5zQ[/SPOILER-BOX]

At the same ranges:
Yasminkov 3200 damage per IF->5000 damage per IF
Surukurai 3400 damage per IF->4500 damage per IF
I made sure TMG gear was maxed at those points.

Yeah, ZRA and Zero Effort do have the same ranges.

Achievements: Finding 0 Yasminkov while almost everyone else finds one!

brofist

edit: for the testing and the beating the odds

Rexob
Sep 19, 2013, 04:12 PM
Okay, now this is odd. I think some of us are thinking that ZRA is ranges beyond what it should be. Looks like Yasminkov's ability and ZRA are in the same activation ranges. However, I don't understand why we are getting people that say ZRA's bonus gets activated at different ranges.

Guess I'm taking back what I said.

jooozek is hellbent that the Y9K bonus is different than ZRAs and useless

jooozek
Sep 19, 2013, 04:27 PM
okay, so in that case both ZRA and ZE are useless to me, the difference being that ZE is on a mediocre TMG and there isn't much stuff to put points in on the skill tree

Rexob
Sep 19, 2013, 04:31 PM
okay, so in that case both ZRA and ZE are useless to me, the difference being that ZE is on a mediocre TMG and there isn't much stuff to put points in on the skill tree

You are severely gimping yourself out of a lot of free dmg

jooozek
Sep 19, 2013, 04:34 PM
You are severely gimping yourself out of a lot of free dmg

how am i gimping myself if i prefer a boost in all ranges instead of a boost only at point blank range? lel
also, if a mod could separate this as a thread about ZRA/Zero Effort it would be nice for science, shame to have it die in this thread

gigawuts
Sep 19, 2013, 04:40 PM
The cost is having to be close to the target, which will not always be the case no matter how leet you are.

Rexob
Sep 19, 2013, 05:19 PM
how am i gimping myself if i prefer a boost in all ranges instead of a boost only at point blank range? lel
also, if a mod could separate this as a thread about ZRA/Zero Effort it would be nice for science, shame to have it die in this thread

I can understand not using ZRA & ZE, but please quit bashing the Y9K with your ignorance illustrated below. I fully endorse Flamme Revolvers as a top, affordable choice for all ranges which I include on my findings and analysis found Here (http://www.pso-world.com/forums/showthread.php?t=213214)


tl;dr yasminkov is shit



the amazing part is that the element difference on my fleetmalinca is 1% more than the % of the potential on yas which goes for all R-ATK and not just the weapons R-ATK excluding affixes lawl

If you had any inclination as to how the game calculated damage you would realize how ridiculous your statement is...Elemental Weapon dmg & weakness is NOT calculated as a DMG % bonus where:

(A-D) * .2 * M


A = (Base character dmg + Weapon Dmg + elemental weapon dmg + elemental weakness)
D = Defender's relative defense stat
M = DMG % modifiers such as Zero Range Advance, Zero Effort, Perfect Keeper, etc

Rexob
Sep 19, 2013, 05:30 PM
oh, so today is the opposite day, i knew something was off

Indeed, I'm a Y9K sales rep and you're smack talking my product, you better believe I'm gunning for you :-P

NoiseHERO
Sep 19, 2013, 05:32 PM
People are still number crunching in this game?

On one of the most over powered classes at that? @[email protected]

gigawuts
Sep 19, 2013, 05:32 PM
People are still number crunching in this game?

On one of the most over powered classes at that? @[email protected]

big numbers don't matter when you can get even bigger numbers

jooozek
Sep 19, 2013, 05:33 PM
just like some men like big numbers
some like to keep their bigger numbers really close to them

Rexob
Sep 19, 2013, 05:33 PM
People are still number crunching in this game?

On one of the most over powered classes at that? @[email protected]

OMG - GU epeens grow 100% for every 1% >< lolololololololol :-P

DoubleCannon
Sep 19, 2013, 06:15 PM
THIS GAME SUCKS

YA THIS GAME IS TERRIBLE I MEAN IT THREW ME A GULD MILLA WITH 0% RARE BOOST LIKE SERIOUSLY A GULD MILLA? TERRIBLE GAME!!!

[spoiler-box]Btw I really love those 2000hp heals. THIS GAME ROCKS LIKE ROCK EASTWOOD![/spoiler-box]

:-D

NoiseHERO
Sep 19, 2013, 06:16 PM
YA THIS GAME IS TERRIBLE I MEAN IT THREW ME A GULD MILLA WITH 0% RARE BOOST LIKE SERIOUSLY A GULD MILLA? TERRIBLE GAME!!!

[spoiler-box]Btw I really love those 4000hp heals. THIS GAME ROCKS![/spoiler-box]

:-D

I'd like the lottery too if I won it, though.

But yeah PSO2nihilism for life.

Nothing matters in this game anymore (except dress-up)

DoubleCannon
Sep 19, 2013, 06:18 PM
I'd like the lottery too if I won it, though.

But yeah PSO2nihilism for life.

Nothing matters in this game anymore (except dress-up)

you sir speak the sad truth :(.. pso2 loli edition

Rexob
Sep 19, 2013, 07:24 PM
Well, this was fun, and in the end Rock Eastwood nailed it on the head:

"Nothing matters in this game anymore (except dress-up)"

<3 Jooozek!

Cyclon
Sep 19, 2013, 09:00 PM
I'd like the lottery too if I won itWho will get a Psycho wand to drop for this man? I feel lonely.

Also the chin in your sig is one pix wrong and I fail to unsee that. Please do something about it?

Chdata
Sep 19, 2013, 10:09 PM
i like how you just went for what you could argue without testing the range thing
pso-w after all

Why in the world are you testing Yas vs Fleet anyway. The discreprency is whether or not Yas's latent effect requires true point blank range or if it's as lenient as ZRA advance. All you need to test this is Yas and to shoot Falz arms from afar and close in on them (which was done). Also getting into zra on anything isn't that hard ;v just walk up to them. Or use dead approach. I play the -never touch the floor- gunner and have no problem getting zero range even while not having hit the ground for most of the fight.

Rexob
Sep 19, 2013, 10:26 PM
Why in the world are you testing Yas vs Fleet anyway. The discreprency is whether or not Yas's latent effect requires true point blank range or if it's as lenient as ZRA advance. All you need to test this is Yas and to shoot Falz arms from afar and close in on them (which was done). Also getting into zra on anything isn't that hard ;v just walk up to them. Or use dead approach. I play the -never touch the floor- gunner and have no problem getting zero range even while not having hit the ground for most of the fight.

yooozek prefers to play Gu as an acrobatic RA that never uses one of the Gu's greatest strengths - ZRA


i prefer a boost in all ranges instead of a boost only at point blank range? lel

...

jooozek prefers RATK - b/c static dmg is superior to % dmg (not really)...AND


both ZRA and ZE are useless to me, the difference being that ZE is on a mediocre TMG and there isn't much stuff to put points in on the skill tree

jooozek is lightyears ahead of other GUs struggling to realize that static DMG is superior to % dmg

Chdata
Sep 19, 2013, 10:35 PM
I read the thread btw.

Also you can get both the static boosts and the % boosts all together if you want. What's really worthless is CT's burst dmg <.< 1 point that crap

HIT0SHI
Sep 19, 2013, 10:38 PM
I like to mostly use ZRA and Perfect Keeper than ZE due me having the Guld Milla and it's potential that heals me by attacking which makes me an almost invincible tank of destruction; Especially if combined with S roll and Heel Stab (charged)! <3

Rexob
Sep 19, 2013, 10:39 PM
I read the thread btw.

Also you can get both the static boosts and the % boosts all together if you want. What's really worthless is CT's burst dmg <.< 1 point that crap

Not quite...players are unable to get all of RATK-Up 3 & PK, although it's perfectly feasible for a player to max RATK-Up3 and 1pt into PK since its bonus is lost fairly quick


I like to mostly use ZRA and Perfect Keeper than ZE due me having the Guld Milla and it's potential that heals me by attacking which makes me an almost invincible tank of destruction; Especially if combined with S roll and Heel Stab (charged)! <3

You sir as super sexy & lucky b/c the PSO gods smile kindly upon thee with a GM drop :-D

renji84
Sep 19, 2013, 10:59 PM
I like to mostly use ZRA and Perfect Keeper than ZE due me having the Guld Milla and it's potential that heals me by attacking which makes me an almost invincible tank of destruction; Especially if combined with S roll and Heel Stab (charged)! <3
I have guld milla and 50% yas for boss because ist make a little
difference on mt and chain finish.(makes me an almost invincible tank of destruction) ist not bad idea to avoid get hit to always have tmg gear on top.

Rexob
Sep 19, 2013, 11:13 PM
I have guld milla and 50% yas for boss because ist make a little
difference on mt and chain finish.(makes me an almost invincible tank of destruction) ist not bad idea to avoid get hit to always have tmg gear on top.

+1 to you too :-D

HIT0SHI
Sep 19, 2013, 11:14 PM
I have guld milla and 50% yas for boss because ist make a little
difference on mt and chain finish.(makes me an almost invincible tank of destruction) ist not bad idea to avoid get hit to always have tmg gear on top.

that is also a good way to maintain PK and to add more DPS considering that you can change back to your Yas after using the GM to heal while still attacking.

NoiseHERO
Sep 19, 2013, 11:19 PM
Who will get a Psycho wand to drop for this man? I feel lonely.

Also the chin in your sig is one pix wrong and I fail to unsee that. Please do something about it?

Can you use that pwand?

But yeah even when I get rares I want I'm like "meh" 30 minutes later.

Also STARE INTO THE OCD HELL! MUAHAHAHAHA!

TaigaUC
Sep 20, 2013, 01:06 AM
Weird thread.

Anyway, JP people seem to use Yasminkov 9000 specifically for Messiah Time and they usually know what they are doing, so they are probably right.

jooozek
Sep 20, 2013, 02:10 AM
Why in the world are you testing Yas vs Fleet anyway. The discreprency is whether or not Yas's latent effect requires true point blank range or if it's as lenient as ZRA advance. All you need to test this is Yas and to shoot Falz arms from afar and close in on them (which was done). Also getting into zra on anything isn't that hard ;v just walk up to them. Or use dead approach. I play the -never touch the floor- gunner and have no problem getting zero range even while not having hit the ground for most of the fight.

because i've had no idea that normally there are 2 ranges for damage on twin mechs, very far and the mid range and zero range advance adds the third one, point blank and was thinking the mid range was an effect of ZRA but after testing with rescue gun on a setup without Gu in the chain the result was like i've first said in this post
i've read about the range buff for ZRA/ZE that led me to believe the mid range being was an effect of the buff as in a little leeway for nonpointblank stuff which turns out was pretty shit and is in no way lenient because it's still pretty much true to its name
also, i do have maxed out both ZRA and PK and like i said indirectly earlier ("both ZRA and ZE are useless to me, the difference being that ZE is on a mediocre TMG and there isn't much stuff to put points in on the skill tree") i would still pick ZRA over static R-ATK bonuses
i also have no idea what are you talking about in last 3 sentences, are you talking about bosses? of course i'll walk up to them because they won't die before i get them, but normal monsters? lol nope unless it's something like krabs/cyclos/kuklos/big yedes

Aine
Sep 20, 2013, 02:57 AM
There's a distance threshold where all R-ATK damage (not just mechguns) gets a penalty. It's been in place at least since before VH was around, but not many people know about it.

gigawuts
Sep 20, 2013, 07:46 AM
Can you use that pwand?

But yeah even when I get rares I want I'm like "meh" 30 minutes later.

Also STARE INTO THE OCD HELL! MUAHAHAHAHA!

Finding rares is really just finding chores :disapprove:

There's a distance threshold where all R-ATK damage (not just mechguns) gets a penalty. It's been in place at least since before VH was around, but not many people know about it.

It's been around since the day mechguns were released, and presumably much longer. I'd say it goes back to the game's launch, it seems like maybe the last 20% of a gun's range has its damage penalized by 20% (or 25%? it's been a while, I forget). Since rifles and gunslashes have such long ranges people never really noticed.

Rexob
Sep 20, 2013, 09:00 AM
talk about hypocrisy, all you've been doing is trashtalking me without saying anything of relevance about all this range/zra/ze business

I enjoy our conversation jooozek and I can always rely on you to reply. You had a vendetta against Y9K and called it really bad names which makes me sad. However, chatting with you is so much more fun than discussing Y9K :D

Bellion already proved ZRA & ZE are the same anyways.

MetalDude
Sep 20, 2013, 12:15 PM
I really don't see why you kept harassing jooozek long after the argument was over. I agree it was really not necessary. The conservation actually got more interesting and informative once Aine brought up the whole range penalty mechanic.

TaigaUC
Sep 20, 2013, 01:06 PM
i'll put you on ignore since you seem to be living in some parallel dimension

I'd have most of this forum ignored for living in a parallel dimension if I could be bothered.

Seriously, half the time I say something, most people here react as if I said something completely different.
It's like they're actively looking for people to belittle and attack.
Either that, or I'm just not expressing myself correctly... but I don't seem to have this much of a problem doing so elsewhere.
I was actually warned about the level of intelligence on this forum a long time ago.
That's not to say everyone here is lacking. It's just difficult to filter through.

We evolved by communicating via language, sharing knowledge and understanding, and we formed a society based on such.
It's what makes us unique from other species on this planet.
Kind of sad that people no longer seem capable of proper communication.

It'd be nice if everyone could just get along.

I say too much when I'm tired. Don't mind me.

Chdata
Sep 20, 2013, 01:23 PM
I think it's just childish that people argue emotionally while ignoring facts and at the same time provoke each other or are simply easily provoked by factual data when it's about to invalidate them.

Things like "can't read for shit" have absolutely nothing to do with whether ZE is point blank or sword-distance like ZRA. Things like "lol I <3 u keep talking" are provocative in another way that is all forms of silly to me.

Back on topic:


Joozek: i also have no idea what are you talking about in last 3 sentences, are you talking about bosses? of course i'll walk up to them because they won't die before i get them, but normal monsters? lol nope unless it's something like krabs/cyclos/kuklos/big yedes


I was talking specifically about bosses yes. I thought it would be obviously because I was quoting your Falz Arm test and that the entire context of the post was about bosses. But you bring up a relevant point, ZRA is fairly pointless for general mobs. But it does help for the tanky mobs a lot, and even more so for bosses.

Also Rexob, I forgot Gu had a 3rd r-atk up, but I meant this kinda tree: http://ryuhiroshi.funpic.de/pso2/skillcalc.php?05eNb3Ikb3Ikb3Ikb3Ikb3Ikb3Ikb3Ik0lbI nqnGKsN6JiGA000007b000009b000009b2XJ2infGAqobp0007 b000000lb000000lOqB4NdnfsNJ2HnId0006

Of course, getting Guld Mila changes how you play Gunner, because now having Perfect Keeper maxed is an unconditional upgrade for me as well.

Also for anyone who considers having just reversal on Hu/Ra/Gu for a Gu main... don't do it. Don't do it. Learn how to play Gunner instead. It's not a class that needs it at all. Even before I had Guld Mila, it was wasted SP. Completely wasted.


As for the "far range" damage penalty, I can advocate for this, one time when I was trying it out with rescue guns when I was like level 20 Gu, I observed similar behavior where there seemed to be 3 different ranges (Long, mid, and ZRA). Maybe or maybe not an even closer 4th ZE exists, but then again we'd've seen that in Bellion's video.

jooozek
Sep 20, 2013, 01:41 PM
i've tested it at first on falz arms because... you can just go to the counter and pick the fight and just fight with them, easiest way to test the range without stuff dying, wasn't about bosses, rest was already explained in the post you are replying to

Chdata
Sep 20, 2013, 02:33 PM
Well it's obvious why you chose falz arms to test it ;v Dunno what you're saying was already explained though, I wasn't asking any questions.

jooozek
Sep 20, 2013, 02:46 PM
apparently it's not obvious to you because like I said, the post you were replying to wasn't about bosses
like
it could be a rappy with 100000000000000000 hp
it just like, you know, doesn't matter
this whole thing has all the time been about range ever since this post (http://www.pso-world.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3042366&postcount=1206) which no one ever went ahead and said that they are the same thing, on the contrary, i only got confirmation
also, by "rest was already explained in the post you are replying to" i mean the whole context of this ZRA/ZE thingy

Rexob
Sep 20, 2013, 02:57 PM
ZRA is useless on anything a GU can ER in 2-3 shots. I get use out of ZRA though on a lot of other mobs:

Ga Wonda
Krabahda
Kuklonahda
Luda Sorcerer
Garongo
Yede
Malmoth
Gilnas
Dingale

When using ZRA + ZE and ER or MT killing the "beefier" mobs is a joke; most anything listed above is killable in one properly landed MT/ER when using ZRA + ZE, maybe not the Luda Sorcerer. The strengths of ZRA & ZE aren't meant for dispatching lesser mobs - those are a joke and a cakewalk anyways. Using ZRA & ZE saves a significant amount of time when used properly.

Chdata
Sep 20, 2013, 03:17 PM
apparently it's not obvious to you because like I said, the post you were replying to wasn't about bosses
like
it could be a rappy with 100000000000000000 hp
it just like, you know, doesn't matter
this whole thing has all the time been about range ever since this post (http://www.pso-world.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3042366&postcount=1206) which no one ever went ahead and said that they are the same thing, on the contrary, i only got confirmation
also, by "rest was already explained in the post you are replying to" i mean the whole context of this ZRA/ZE thingy

When I said "chose Falz arms to test" I wasn't saying it's about bosses. The whole point was to test how ZRA works ;v and Falz is just an easily accessible blob of HP to do it on. Infact I even said that in my last few posts so I dunno why you're acting as if I completely missed the point. (Maybe capitalization and punctuation will help because some of what you say is actually getting confusing).

Rexob
Sep 20, 2013, 03:54 PM
(Maybe capitalization and punctuation will help because some of what you say is actually getting confusing).

^ This

jooozek
Sep 20, 2013, 05:32 PM
When I said "chose Falz arms to test" I wasn't saying it's about bosses. The whole point was to test how ZRA works ;v and Falz is just an easily accessible blob of HP to do it on. Infact I even said that in my last few posts so I dunno why you're acting as if I completely missed the point. (Maybe capitalization and punctuation will help because some of what you say is actually getting confusing).

in the 3 sentences i've asked about you have mentioned that getting ZRA on anything isn't that hard which for mobbing isn't true which was the purpose of the question, either stuff dies fast enough or in groups of mobs you are going to use stuff like heel stomp which for majority of the aoe you won't benefit from ZRA most of the time so for a player without a guild milla and with perfect keeper maxed there is plenty of times that you wouldn't get much out of getting into ZRA range without accidentally losing the health; i don't know about others but my latency is pretty high (500ish when i last checked with resmon) and it's not unusual for a monster that should be already dead hit me and damage me, i'm also by no means the best player in the world so messups happen often

Chdata
Sep 20, 2013, 05:54 PM
I mentioned that getting to ZRA distance wasn't hard for me, even before I had GM and would never invest in PK. Especially with heel stab, I dunno how you would not benefit from ZRA while using that ;o They're made for eachother o;

I also already mentioned previously that obviously for mobs ZRA doesn't matter unless they're tanks.

Perfect Keeper, I consider completely useless unless you have GM or are just that good. ZRA does add up to more dmg bonus though. There's all sorts of stuff to chip damage off ya.

jooozek
Sep 20, 2013, 06:02 PM
only times i did benefit from zra on heel stab to make use out of its aoe was when i had a dedicated zondeel in my party who was doing nothing but gather the mob for all the gu/hu in the party, i could precisely aim for the middle of the mob and get the bonus on everything, outside of that monsters don't conveniently get into the range of ZRA while still being hit with the aoe

in any case, just to have this off: i'm not saying ZRA/ZE are bad because they are bad, it's just, for me it requires too much setup to benefit from it especially considering that nowadays your damage relies on sroll

Rexob
Sep 20, 2013, 06:13 PM
w/o GM I put 1pt into PK - is it up 100% of the time? No, but for 1pt, I'll take the extra 10% when I can get it - easily one of the best 1pt Skills in my opinion. For mob killing, since we seem to agree is incredibly easy, I have PK 90%+ unless I am blatantly negligent. The single most annoying thing for me are the poison turrets.

I rarely have issues maintaining PK on most boss fights. Sroll and MT - the invulnerability on MT is why it's so good with Y9Ks.

Easy Bosses: low risk fights where maintaining PK is very easy with Sroll & MT spam

Dark Ragne
Gwanahda
Wolgahda
Rockbear
Vol Dragon
Caterdran
Tranmizer
Big Vardha
Vardha Soma
Org Blan
Del Malmoth

Medium Bosses: fights where I expect to take dmg at some point, but occasionally luck out taking none

Banthers / Banthas / Banshee
Blu Ringahda
Zeshrayda
Chrome Dragon

Difficult Bosses: fights where using MT & keeping PK up is very difficult

Quartz Dragon
Dragon Ex
Falz Hunar

MetalDude
Sep 20, 2013, 06:31 PM
Quartz and Ex? Unless we're talking like AQ Boosted-Mutated where it takes a lot more damage to put them in stun, I usually don't have much trouble locking them into a cycle of MT-spam until they're dead. Trying to get the initial stun though is somewhat difficult, but I find it really easy if you destroy Ex's right wing first to make that giant and fast slash way easier to dodge. Then just dive straight for the head and get to work. As soon as the face is broken, he's gone.

Rexob
Sep 20, 2013, 06:36 PM
Quartz b/c of his laser rain down thing...I rarely catch that in time usually

Ex probably b/c I've only fought him twice, and not as familiar with his attack patterns

I just ran Nab2 TACO and the only time I didn't have PK was on the stupid Banther...it's not hard to keep up, but I wouldn't suggest dropping 10pts in it without GM

I might move Blu Ringahda to the Easy list...the more times I fight him...his pattern is pretty easy as GU

Zenobia
Sep 20, 2013, 10:19 PM
Falz Hunar, DragonX, and Quartz are pretty easy actually and as GU/HU you should be breaking them down pretty easily too.

You don't always have to use MT every single time on bosses there are other ways to take care of them and safe approach moves then just MT, MT, MT, I do not know why we have to pick one move and stck to it rather than using all the tools we have to make things more efficient.

If you can't get in close on DragonX as you would love to break his arms it makes his atk speed slower letting you get in more hits as Gu/Hu as you love to you can pretty do all the MT, MT, MT spam you want once those arms of his are broken.

Rexob
Sep 20, 2013, 10:52 PM
Those 3 give me a bit more trouble mostly b/c I don't go looking to farm them, so I'm not as familiar with their attack patterns. Quartz I've done enough, but the skyfall laser move I am still unsure when it's coming. Ex - I've killed twice, and fortunately do not need to farm for anything. Falz Hunar I rarely fight...I might have encountered him a dozen times if that.

I use mix a variety of PAs - MT / ER / IF / SA / DA

I mostly use MT on bosses - once I know I can stay on top of a boss, many no longer pose a threat allowing me to maintain PK.

I only included those three to illustrate the fact that there are bosses where taking advantage of ZRA / ZE / PK is more difficult than others. Those three also happen to be bosses I have killed less than 12 times solo if that - Ex is 2 kills, Falz Hunar might be 10 at most. Quartz I've killed plenty, but a lot of times in MPAs. If I modified my list to include bosses I kill regularly for farming - the bottom "Difficult" group would not exist.

strikerhunter
Sep 20, 2013, 11:48 PM
Difficult Bosses: fights where using MT & keeping PK up is very difficult

Quartz Dragon
Dragon Ex
Falz Hunar

-Quartz? Godly hell, for me on my Gu/Hu, he is ridiculously easy to the point where the VH TA Sanctum one doesn't need to do the stupid wall trick. Laser attack is actually predictable, but you'll need to react fast and may get hit by 1 or 2 light hits.

-EX..................only if shield are damaged lol (for me, I'm so used to him attacking fast when AQing him)

-Hunar?........ZRA is useless, I'm just Rolling away from him hoping to not be close to him or run into a corner when tanking him in AQ or dragging him.

MetalDude
Sep 21, 2013, 12:48 AM
Well, that would explain. I've farmed Ex a number of time for Guilty Break and Nagrants so I've got him pinned down super hard. Used to hunt Quartz back in the day for Avenger (still never got it) so Quartz is nothing to me anymore regardless of the class I play. Hunar's the only one I'm never particularly comfortable with; I just kite all day.