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View Full Version : So why is it light attribute changers are still going up in price on ship 2?



Maninbluejumpsuit
Sep 23, 2013, 02:46 PM
I'm honestly stumped.

Rexob
Sep 23, 2013, 02:48 PM
Rarity, Demand, Utility

Light is regarded as the best element typically. The demand is fairly consistent, and without a recent AC Scratch, are not in great abundance on the market.

I bought a LOT of AC when the new scratch was released, and received 1 Wind & Fire Attribute change. I purchased over 40 tickets. They are not common by any means...and yes, I know - I like buying AC scratch tickets lol. This is literally the only game I play though, so I don't mind spending $ on it.

Alenoir
Sep 23, 2013, 02:48 PM
Yasminkov 9kM flood.

Just look up the price for Shoot III and Miser souls. Just about everything went up in price for R-ATK because the market is overflowed by a very solid and originally-rare TMG.

Z-0
Sep 23, 2013, 03:02 PM
Something about light being the best when an element such as fire or lightning actually gives you more coverage, because while darkers might be in every map, you won't be fighting darkers in every map often (forest, caves, tundra, mines, continent, sanctum, don't remember if Quarry spawns darkers outside of codes - This is all assuming free exploration).

In AQs there are actually zero darkers in Forest, Caves, Tundra, Continent and Sanctum, so light isn't going to help you there.

Also, only 3 element changers are in scratch each rotation I believe, so light might not be available this time (haven't checked).

Walkure
Sep 23, 2013, 03:05 PM
Rarity, Demand, Utility

Light is regarded as the best element typically. The demand is fairly consistent, and without a recent AC Scratch, are not in great abundance on the market.Agree with most of that. I wouldn't say light is the best element, since darkers are either weak to fire (which deals extra damage to natives and oceanids) or lightning (extra damage to all machines).

Best reason to go light would be for a weapon with Negative Destroyer, or if you *really* want to specialize a weapon for Chrome Dragon.

Rexob
Sep 23, 2013, 03:08 PM
A lot depends on what a player farms regularly, but the last time someone ran a poll, Light is generally regarded as #1 with Fire close behind. With the recent Quarry map, Lightning & Fire easily split #2 in most people's minds.

I prefer Light because of the content I generally face. I am tempted to pickup a Lightning set of Y9Ks though. However, until elemental strengths that noticeably and significantly reduce damage are used, min/maxing for X or Y element is kind of silly with the game being so easy. I wouldn't bother with Ice, Wind, or Dark, but just have something solid at element 50.


Agree with most of that. I wouldn't say light is the best element, since darkers are either weak to fire (which deals extra damage to natives and oceanids) or lightning (extra damage to all machines).

Best reason to go light would be for a weapon with Negative Destroyer, or if you *really* want to specialize a weapon for Chrome Dragon.

I think there are strong cases for Light, Fire, & Lightning - especially with the new Quarry zone, but the last time someone polled this, I'm fairly confident the general consensus had Light #1 with Fire as #2.

Maninbluejumpsuit
Sep 23, 2013, 03:11 PM
Well I know light is arguably the best element, but 2.5 mil when it is in the current scratch rotation is absurd.

Rexob
Sep 23, 2013, 03:16 PM
Well I know light is arguably the best element, but 2.5 mil when it is in the current scratch rotation is absurd.

Try getting one first...as I stated earlier I bought over 40 AC tickets and didn't get one...I buy in bulk too, and while I don't mind spending money on the game, that's over $80 and NOT one...so, yes, demand is steady, and they are RARE. Anything that actually improves gameplay and costs real $ when demand is high and supply low is going to cost a decent amount.

SakoHaruo
Sep 23, 2013, 03:23 PM
well with the new grinding system active people are spending munnies, so what did you expect? I'm going to assume you don't own a shop because 2.5mil is nothing special.

Maninbluejumpsuit
Sep 23, 2013, 03:25 PM
Try getting one first...as I stated earlier I bought over 40 AC tickets and didn't get one...I buy in bulk too, and while I don't mind spending money on the game, that's over $80 and NOT one...so, yes, demand is steady, and they are RARE. Anything that actually improves gameplay and costs real $ when demand is high and supply low is going to cost a decent amount.

Well this is the first time an element changer went up in price since the scratch (though I know the element grinding changes had a hand in this). But even stranger, the price only continued to rise, and the scratch has been out for 3 weeks now.

MetalDude
Sep 23, 2013, 03:26 PM
On a single weapon though, given you're playing every class, I'd say it's a complete waste unless you're that nitpick-y about min/maxing. I'd sooner spend it on getting max potential on something like Silica Roses.

SakoHaruo
Sep 23, 2013, 03:28 PM
bait fail ^

Rexob
Sep 23, 2013, 03:31 PM
On a single weapon though, given you're playing every class, I'd say it's a complete waste unless you're that nitpick-y about min/maxing. I'd sooner spend it on getting max potential on something like Silica Roses.

Personally, I think it's silly, but at the same time, once you max potential, affix to your hearts content, element is the next thing...there are always going to be min/max players and a market for these. At least the math is solid for elemental dmg, whereas R-ATK boost which goes for a LOT more is static dmg. The incremental dmg provided by that is less than 2% yet players are willing to spend 5m+ on the items...ppl want to be 1337 :-P

MetalDude
Sep 23, 2013, 03:31 PM
bait fail ^

I really don't understand why you'd want to though unless you had a lot of money and absolutely nothing else to improve. The damage increase is still not significant enough right now and as pointed out before, is based entirely on the content you play. I don't know why you decided to be an ass and call me out.


Personally, I think it's silly, but at the same time, once you max potential, affix to your hearts content, element is the next thing...there are always going to be min/max players and a market for these.

Oh if you have the money and your gear is all set up then by all means. I'm unlucky as hell when it comes to grinding and affixing so I can't make great progress on weapons and by that means I can't make profits off affixing (or attempt to because I can't take loses).

Esofor
Sep 23, 2013, 03:34 PM
I think there are strong cases for Light, Fire, & Lightning - especially with the new Quarry zone, but the last time someone polled this, I'm fairly confident the general consensus had Light #1 with Fire as #2.

did the poll contain any real players?

like, people who actually played the game

pkemr4
Sep 23, 2013, 03:40 PM
i dont get why SEGA doesnt just put some of the really old stuff (LA's and attribute change items) in the FUN shop or AC shop or hell even the EXcube shop.

Rexob
Sep 23, 2013, 03:40 PM
did the poll contain any real players?

like, people who actually played the game

I'm not claiming the poll is perfect, and I'd love a better representation if you have one available.


i dont get why SEGA doesnt just put some of the really old stuff (LA's and attribute change items) in the FUN shop or AC shop or hell even the EXcube shop.

That's actually really simple to answer - MONEY

Alenoir
Sep 23, 2013, 03:42 PM
But even stranger, the price only continued to rise, and the scratch has been out for 3 weeks now.
We're 2 days away from a new scratch. Most people are getting ready for the new fashion and doesn't actually pull the current one. (They may do the one that's being rotated out for last minute accessories, don't know.)

pkemr4
Sep 23, 2013, 03:43 PM
That's actually really simple to answer - MONEY

put them in AC shop for 500-1k AC then...

Rexob
Sep 23, 2013, 03:44 PM
We're 2 days away from a new scratch. Most people are getting ready for the new fashion and doesn't actually pull the current one. (They may do the one that's being rotated out for last minute accessories, don't know.)

^ This - 3wks out, everyone has bought just about all they want. I'm waiting for the Oct scratch myself, because I don't like anything in the next one.


put them in AC shop for 500-1k AC then...

They might do that if they thought of it lol, but that would only increase their in game value too which is something they probably do not want.

Esofor
Sep 23, 2013, 04:50 PM
I'm not claiming the poll is perfect, and I'd love a better representation if you have one available.

it's not so much about better poll representation

it's about the volume of monsters you fight that are actually weak to something

i learned a long time ago that only darkers are weak to light, and i don't fight darkers all the time. darkers also share weaknesses with other monsters as well (fire/lightning), so you gain more coverage that way. if you only have one weapon, i would not recommend going light

TaigaUC
Sep 23, 2013, 04:51 PM
Haven't read through the thread, but my impression is everyone seems to be levelling Gunner now.
As someone else said, that's why R-ATK related stuff has gone up.
Lots of people gearing their Gunners.

Rexob
Sep 23, 2013, 05:47 PM
it's not so much about better poll representation

it's about the volume of monsters you fight that are actually weak to something

i learned a long time ago that only darkers are weak to light, and i don't fight darkers all the time. darkers also share weaknesses with other monsters as well (fire/lightning), so you gain more coverage that way. if you only have one weapon, i would not recommend going light

The popularity of Light has very little to do with actual practicality, but more so the perceived strength of the element. The common rationale is - Darkers appear just about everywhere, so have an element for them.

Esofor
Sep 23, 2013, 06:17 PM
if you think about it, there are quite a few areas that don't have darkers

btw i'm not saying "don't have a weapon that has light element" cause i have a fossil blower for darkers myself. i'm just saying that if you only have 1 weapon, light is not the best option IMO

jooozek
Sep 23, 2013, 06:32 PM
the only time light gets a 1.3x multiplier is on i think, 2 human enemies: gettemhart and persona, other than that for all darkers it's only 1.2x, fire gets 1.3x on tundra enemies, ice gets 1.3x on caves enemies, dark gets 1.3x on the dark weak dragons, lightning gets 1.3x on mechs etc

MetalDude
Sep 23, 2013, 06:33 PM
In the case of GU, my Yas has lightning since a lot of machine enemies don't have the most immediately available weak points (this actually isn't the case with a lot of Quarry enemies, but it's still helpful) so I get better coverage there to make up for it.

Rexob
Sep 23, 2013, 07:18 PM
The biggest compelling reason for Light is probably the fact that Darker ECs can pop up anywhere - Beach Wars, White Day, Wind & Rain, etc...other elemental ECs aren't popping up all over.

Second, less compelling, but still relevant, I'm not getting Abducted by the Naberian Forests, Tundra, Amduscia, or Lillipa...it's all Darkers. Is that zone hard, nope, but when it occurs you're stuck fighting nearly every Darker the game has.

D-Inferno
Sep 23, 2013, 08:18 PM
I pick Light because it's my fav element (along with Fire); plus photons = light. Other than that, I'll often pick an element that matches the weapon's looks (like Fire for Flame Icarus, Dark for the eventual Soul Banish, ect). Do not do this if the weapon has Native, Dragon, Machine, Oceanid, or Negative Destroyer though. Pick Fire, Dark, Lightning, Ice (?), and Light respectively for those.

strikerhunter
Sep 23, 2013, 08:43 PM
I pick light because darkers are everywhere and I love to shoot at them. Plus I like the sound affect when light hits targets that are weak to it.

Never bought a element changer and forever shall not.

80% of the rares (not including junks/shit/red rares ) I found are normally boxed and I would normally set them to light so I'll never have to buy light element changers. (I put light on all 10* boxed) *stares at Yas 35 light during W&R First day view*

Rexob
Sep 23, 2013, 08:46 PM
I pick light because darkers are everywhere and I love to shot at them. Plus I like the sound affect when light hits targets that are weak to it.

Never bought a element changer and forever shall not.

80% of the rares (not including junks/shit/red rares ) I found are normally boxed and I would normally set them to light so I'll never have to buy a light element changers.

I'm in the same boat when finding rares like that, I've only had one that was pre-identified.

pkemr4
Sep 23, 2013, 08:50 PM
i pick light because it sells for more when weapons have that attribute

also i perfer light for all my weapons :3

strikerhunter
Sep 23, 2013, 08:51 PM
I'm in the same boat when finding rares like that, I've only had one that was per-identified.

Out of all the 10* I found, only 2 were preset with 1 being light (the ugly Katana from Quarry) and Guilty Light which I found last weekend during W&R being the only non-light 10* I had found which I find it very ironic.

Rexob
Sep 23, 2013, 09:05 PM
if you think about it, there are quite a few areas that don't have darkers

btw i'm not saying "don't have a weapon that has light element" cause i have a fossil blower for darkers myself. i'm just saying that if you only have 1 weapon, light is not the best option IMO

There are a lot of areas where Light is useless, but Darker EC Duels can spring up anywhere , where the others are more restricted. I have yet to to do a EQ where there was not at least one and many cases two or more Darker EC Duels. When trying to get through as many Duels as possible in a EQ it helps.

The mobs in any of the EQs all die so fast it hardly matters, and half of the time between latency and being in a MPA - you may rarely attack anyways.

strikerhunter
Sep 23, 2013, 09:21 PM
^ Does the a specific element really matters? It still gives you a damage boost regardless if weakness or not, mob/boss being weak to it only gives it more damage.

With the fact that most darkers drops decent 10* (looking at you zesh with so many freaken 10* drops probably the most of all bosses along with king) and that they appear almost everywhere, most would go light just for that little bit faster kill.
Not saying that the others should be bumped out but just go back to the top of the post.

Aine
Sep 23, 2013, 11:02 PM
Attribute changers went up because of the changes to element grinding. The cheapest weapons tend to be Ice/Wind, so you stick two Ice/Wind weapons together and use a changer. There hasn't been a new scratch for three weeks, so supply is drying out.

As for why light specifically is rising, element type really doesn't matter except in two cases: Dark Falz (all elements besides Light/Lightning get a noticeable penalty), and serious TAs where you need Fire to guarantee one-hit kills without JAing or whatever. And not many people do serious TAs...

Esofor
Sep 23, 2013, 11:03 PM
There are a lot of areas where Light is useless, but Darker EC Duels can spring up anywhere , where the others are more restricted. I have yet to to do a EQ where there was not at least one and many cases two or more Darker EC Duels. When trying to get through as many Duels as possible in a EQ it helps.

The mobs in any of the EQs all die so fast it hardly matters, and half of the time between latency and being in a MPA - you may rarely attack anyways.

ok, you seem the be missing the point the entire time, so i'll explain this one last time

it's fine that you want to kill darkers with light and stuff, but are you aware that most, if not all, darkers have secondary weaknesses?

say you have particular trouble with wolgahda and zesh, you could put lightning on your weapon, which wolg+zesh are weak to, and have element coverage for quarry/desert/mines!

SakoHaruo
Sep 23, 2013, 11:10 PM
I thought everyone knew that ^

maybe some of these guys just want to use Light :-?

Zenobia
Sep 23, 2013, 11:13 PM
Esofor only time I see your comment holding true is if you solo A LOT.

Even in MPA's bosses melt ....away

Z-0
Sep 23, 2013, 11:16 PM
The point is that people are spending far too much on light just because "darkers everywhere", when light isn't necessarily the best. You might not use changers, but those who are are probably making silly decisions to buy light at 2mil.

Zenobia
Sep 23, 2013, 11:18 PM
Speaking of element changers I was gonna change an element of my wep I have to fire.

Whats the price on those? Have all the element changers gone up because of the new element grind system?

Cause that is what I thought.

SakoHaruo
Sep 23, 2013, 11:33 PM
they all went up, even ice & dark which were on sale for 100k - 200k before the update

Zenobia
Sep 23, 2013, 11:45 PM
Yup just got fin looking at em all.

locafoca
Sep 24, 2013, 12:20 AM
Because, with new light attribute changers not coming into the market, and a whole bunch of people wanting to change elements on WaR and Quarry weapons, supply was extremely low.

Of course, it doesn't help that people such as ミルヲ decided to buy 15+ of the cheapest ones and put them up in shop for 3mil a couple of days ago... this is the same thing that happened with power/shoot/technique boosts, except those boosts were never added back into scratch.

You could argue that it's nearly anti-social behavior, but it's also by far the easiest way to make meseta... if you have a wad already.

Ouranos
Sep 24, 2013, 12:22 AM
Interesting.

I'm sure I can find something else way more unnecessary to spend 2+mil on this game. Buying light att isn't one of them.

If you can 50 element the weapon with it, it's definitely worth it.

UnLucky
Sep 24, 2013, 12:34 AM
Well a lot of untekked stuff comes out as Fire because it's the default option, so that drops the demand for Fire changes. I would always put Lightning on a launcher because its main use is to hit weak points from above, and hey that works great on a lot of machines.

But you can't really switch between Fire/Lightning without having two weapons, so Light covers the overlap. It's strong against Darkers, and just fine against everything else.

Does that make it worth twice as much as the other elements? Maybe Wind, but at least it covers the new Darker type now. Ice and Dark only work in specific areas, but there's no overlap. The only real competition for general use is Fire or Lightning.

For a single weapon, do you want to be able to say "I'm the best in this one map" or "I will be better than average anywhere"? Fire/Lightning would be in between, since they're the best in a few maps and better than average in a few others, but it doesn't cover everything.


And seriously, this upgrading boon is getting ridiculous. Someone just bought a Mizer/Shoot3/-- weapon of mine for 2mil. I had priced that twice as high as the cheapest listing at the time!

strikerhunter
Sep 24, 2013, 12:37 AM
Because, with new light attribute changers not coming into the market, and a whole bunch of people wanting to change elements on WaR and Quarry weapons, supply was extremely low.

Of course, it doesn't help that people such as ミルヲ decided to buy 15+ of the cheapest ones and put them up in shop for 3mil a couple of days ago... this is the same thing that happened with power/shoot/technique boosts, except those boosts were never added back into scratch.

You could argue that it's nearly anti-social behavior, but it's also by far the easiest way to make meseta... if you have a wad already.

Basically you can say what's happening to the price of the elemental changers is the same exact story as Power/Tech/Shoot boost.(mainly shoot since W&R)

Morale of the story, when demands are high and supplies are low prices goes up not down.

Rexob
Sep 24, 2013, 07:08 AM
Basically you can say what's happening to the price of the elemental changers is the same exact story as Power/Tech/Shoot boost.(mainly shoot since W&R)

Morale of the story, when demands are high and supplies are low prices goes up not down.

^ This - basic economic principles 101.

Rexob
Sep 24, 2013, 07:12 AM
ok, you seem the be missing the point the entire time, so i'll explain this one last time

it's fine that you want to kill darkers with light and stuff, but are you aware that most, if not all, darkers have secondary weaknesses?

say you have particular trouble with wolgahda and zesh, you could put lightning on your weapon, which wolg+zesh are weak to, and have element coverage for quarry/desert/mines!

I'm fully aware, but are you missing the point that not every darker is weak to lightning and some it's fire, yet they all share a Light weakness other than their rare counterparts? And personally, I don't feel like buying 2 Y9Ks fully decked out to get that coverage on Darker ECs - even with drastically low prices, grinding out pot 3 +10, 50 element, and 3 affixes is more trouble than I care for the dmg differential. The game is too easy to bother.

Rexob
Sep 24, 2013, 07:14 AM
The point is that people are spending far too much on light just because "darkers everywhere", when light isn't necessarily the best. You might not use changers, but those who are are probably making silly decisions to buy light at 2mil.

Some players have more money than they know what to do with...I don't buy the element changers, but I've spent much more on far more frivolous things like my hair ;-)

Rexob
Sep 24, 2013, 07:15 AM
Speaking of element changers I was gonna change an element of my wep I have to fire.

Whats the price on those? Have all the element changers gone up because of the new element grind system?

Cause that is what I thought.

Last I checked fire is around 1.5m+ It's easily the second most popular

Rexob
Sep 24, 2013, 07:16 AM
Interesting.

I'm sure I can find something else way more unnecessary to spend 2+mil on this game. Buying light att isn't one of them.

If you can 50 element the weapon with it, it's definitely worth it.

50 ele is the only thing any weapon really needs, but I wouldn't advise Dark or Ice since they provide the least amount of coverage.

Zenobia
Sep 24, 2013, 07:21 AM
Pretty much you have your choice of Fire, Lightning or Light which a lot of ppl love.

Pick your poison

Rexob
Sep 24, 2013, 07:23 AM
Pretty much you have your choice of Fire, Lightning or Light which a lot of ppl love.

Pick your poison

Basically, people pick Light for the same reason people affix Shock 3 - Falz extermination. Before the Quarry zone, Fire & Light were easily the top 2 picks. I don't know many players min/maxing for Tranzmizer, Big Vardha, or any of the Naberian Natives, even when it still provides decent Darker coverage.

locafoca
Sep 24, 2013, 01:52 PM
if you're looking element changers, your weapon should be strong enough to take care of any trash mobs such that any elemental help would be negligible. i always buy element changers for bosses, and i have this handy chart:

[SPOILER-BOX]http://i.imgur.com/TooXkjW.png[/SPOILER-BOX]

personally, i choose lightning and light more than fire because a lot of those fire bosses either simply melt anyhow and/or are weak to light.

Z-0
Sep 24, 2013, 02:04 PM
It's also interesting to note that all rare Darker bosses lose their light weakness too.

locafoca
Sep 24, 2013, 02:08 PM
It's also interesting to note that all rare Darker bosses lose their light weakness too.

Yeah... I didn't include rare bosses in my list because, really, how often will you be fighting a rare darker boss?

Apparently, with the last two weeks in mind, the answer is "quite often"...

Z-0
Sep 24, 2013, 02:09 PM
Well from what I understand (especially at 51+), rare bosses tend to be the aim cuz a lot of good stuff drop only from them

(see: vardha, agrani, haze, etc. etc.)

Kind of sucks really.

Rexob
Sep 24, 2013, 05:10 PM
Yeah... I didn't include rare bosses in my list because, really, how often will you be fighting a rare darker boss?

Apparently, with the last two weeks in mind, the answer is "quite often"...

I've seen more Rare Dark bosses in the last 2wks than most months prior lol...

Rexob
Sep 24, 2013, 05:11 PM
if you're looking element changers, your weapon should be strong enough to take care of any trash mobs such that any elemental help would be negligible. i always buy element changers for bosses, and i have this handy chart:

[SPOILER-BOX]http://i.imgur.com/TooXkjW.png[/SPOILER-BOX]

personally, i choose lightning and light more than fire because a lot of those fire bosses either simply melt anyhow and/or are weak to light.

I couldn't agree more with this too...I'm not min / maxing for the easy stuff that melts in 3 Elder Rebellion shots, but the bosses that pop up in ECs.

UnLucky
Sep 24, 2013, 07:48 PM
It's also interesting to note that all rare Darker bosses lose their light weakness too.
Yeah, most (if not all) rare variants lose their primary weakness for some reason. Like rare Fang Banthers are only weak to Wind.


posts
Please try to use the Multi-quote feature next time instead of quad posting. Helps to reduce clutter a bit.

Bellion
Sep 24, 2013, 08:25 PM
It's odd that the datamined elemental weaknesses show that all 4 normal Banthers(yes, even snow) have a x1.1 Wind weakness. Banther Donna is only weak to fire, Banther Ong is weak to wind, and the rare snow variants are weak to fire only.

In-game, the snow variants are definitely not weak to wind at all.

UnLucky
Sep 24, 2013, 08:58 PM
110% weaknesses generally aren't shown, but I believe they still count for EWH and WS.

Zenobia
Sep 24, 2013, 09:04 PM
Doesn't Soma also fall under that rule when I break his thrusters I get the light element sound as if it was weak to it but t doesn't show in the weakness indicator.

Aeris
Sep 24, 2013, 09:33 PM
Doesn't Soma also fall under that rule when I break his thrusters I get the light element sound as if it was weak to it but t doesn't show in the weakness indicator.

It only shows 3 out of the 6 elemental weaknesses like the same when targeting a infection core on a enemy.

Rexob
Sep 24, 2013, 09:38 PM
Yeah, most (if not all) rare variants lose their primary weakness for some reason. Like rare Fang Banthers are only weak to Wind.


Please try to use the Multi-quote feature next time instead of quad posting. Helps to reduce clutter a bit.

I post as I find things to reply to, not like I'm getting graded for editing everything :-P some cannot even use punctuation, capitalization, or grammar...

Zenobia
Sep 24, 2013, 09:39 PM
It only shows 3 out of the 6 elemental weaknesses like the same when targeting a infection core on a enemy.

Oh okay so its not listing them all.