Pretty sure we all saw this coming

[Zeik2006]

http://www.tssznews.com/2013/09/19/source-pso2-fully-localized-but-unlikely-for-the-west/

Next to no chance for the western version.

[BIG OLAF]

As hilarious and delicious that news would indeed be, I'm not entirely convinced by their 'sources'.

However, it would make sense given, as they mentioned, the complete silence from SoA employees regarding PSO2 in any regard. There's just too much change that would need to be made to the core game mechanic (Arks Cash) to comply with American and/or Western standards. That, and Western gamers won't stand for PSO2's RNG bullshit. It would, undoubtedly, tank in any non-Asian countries, in my opinion.

[Shadowth117]

I've got one word that suits my thoughts on this very well. "Lol..."

[ReaperTheAbsol]

I've got one word that suits my thoughts on this very well. "Lol..."

I'm pretty much like this as well.

[supersonix9]

god who cares anymore

[Zenobia]

GET A LOAD OF THIS!

[Keyblade59]

Western Release canceled? why not AIDA?

[gigawuts]

GET A LOAD OF THIS!

no, the point is they won't get a load of this

[Inazuma]

I want an official English version to come out so the casual players will move to it.

[Zenobia]

no, the point is they won't get a load of this

Oh? You miss my sarcasm you hurt me good sir.

[jcart953]

god who cares anymore

This^^

[Jungo Torii]

Gee, what a surprise.

[Noblewine]

Thanks Segac...... =D
Best present ever! >0<

[Shirokami]

I want an official English version to come out so the shittier players will move to it.

B-20 would get empty and Ship 2 will start getting more JP players again.
Actually the only problem I encounter with playing the JP servers is the AC loading crap.

[Rekku]

If SEA gets an English version, let everyone play that. We'll have the same crappy customer service as the Japanese, except everything will be in a language we can understand without patches.

I don't see what could go wrong!

[Laxedrane]

Let the sega witch hunt begin.

Or maybe it's like coming out of the closet and everyone is relieved.

[Zeik2006]

Yeah I've pretty much given up on PSO2 at this point. Oh well.

Time to move on I suppose.

[Totori]

Extremely unlikely source, so I'ma call my fair share of BULLSHITT on the article.

[Z-0]

i want the western version of the game to come out so I can chain kill (respawn kill)

it looks so much fun

probably won't be perfect but it would be better than here. :v plus there would be real competition maybe that isn't superior jp latency people I can't communicate with anyway

[Shadowth117]

probably won't be perfect but it would be better than here. :v plus there would be real competition maybe that isn't superior jp latency people I can't communicate with anyway

Certain exploits that disrupt the otherwise easy to jump into nature of the game such as the various dash exploits contribute to that issue no matter who is playing. It doesn't really matter if they "won't put the effort in to learn it" or whatever other excuse you might throw out for people not using it. The learning curve or arguably innate skill in certain areas required to perform such techniques is a massive deterrent for getting the average player's feet wet. Not to mention the toll the technique places on one's PC to the point where its required to make the game look arguably worse than PSU, due to reliance on shaders to look good, to manage generally running TA's while performing such techniques optimally.

There's also a desire for a full team of players who can perform that particular technique at that level because there are no true options for anything less than 4 player competitive missions. This makes it further problematic to jump into and hence amass groups of people.

Overall, the bar appears very high for a casual player to even look toward which prevents potential players with interest from even trying.

[strikerhunter]

I've got one word that suits my thoughts on this very well. "Lol..."

This and............


god who cares anymore

This.

Was more than obvious to tell due to the pathetic excuses from SoA devs saying the same thing over and over again.

Although I won't change versions I will just say that the source is not legit.

EDIT: I literally want SOA go out there and say it directly to the fans (those who waited for some apparent reason) rather than tell a third party or it being rumored. Man up SoA.

[Nitro Vordex]

Hey, look, another source points out information everyone already knew beforehand!

Come on Sega, surprise us.

[Lostbob117]

Western Release canceled? why not AIDA?

What about AIDA?

Anyways,

encounter with a Sega employee in Japan has told TSSZ something

I don't know...

[UnLucky]

Yeah no way Sega employees are allowed outside. If true, he probably never made it home.

[MetalDude]

Fake. Sega is clearly employed by robots.

[Nitro Vordex]

Fake. Sega is clearly employed by robots.
Sexy robots.

[ChaosAngel92]

Sexy robots.

Actually this is how I imagine SEGA's employment.

http://southcarolina1670.files.wordpress.com/2008/11/monkey-typing-simpsons_jpg.jpg

[Jim]

The article doesn't seem very credible to me either.

However, I think we've all known for months that we aren't getting PSO2.

One question I have is: Are the voices being localized in English? And will we be able to patch those into our JP clients?

[Totori]

The article doesn't seem very credible to me either.

However, I think we've all known for months that we aren't getting PSO2.

One question I have is: Are the voices being localized in English? And will we be able to patch those into our JP clients?

If you are talking about that Asia version, most likely that version won't have a different voice track.

[Vashyron]

While the potential that they given up on releasing this is obviously there... tssznews, lol.

Very particularly known for pulling stuff out of it's ass as a source.

[Enforcer MKV]

EDIT: I literally want SOA go out there and say it directly to the fans (those who waited for some apparent reason) rather than tell a third party or it being rumored. Man up SoA.

Except SoA's hands are tied because SoJ makes all the decisions in regards to what can be announced by SoA in regards to the games. SoJ made this game, they make the decisions in terms of what happens; that includes whether it's localized or not.

This isn't SoA's fault; it's SoJ's. And as much as I'd like something, anything concrete...Well, I've accepted the fact that we just aren't important enough in their eyes to warrant an explanation.

[Esofor]

Certain exploits that disrupt the otherwise easy to jump into nature of the game such as the various dash exploits contribute to that issue no matter who is playing. It doesn't really matter if they "won't put the effort in to learn it" or whatever other excuse you might throw out for people not using it. The learning curve or arguably innate skill in certain areas required to perform such techniques is a massive deterrent for getting the average player's feet wet. Not to mention the toll the technique places on one's PC to the point where its required to make the game look arguably worse than PSU, due to reliance on shaders to look good, to manage generally running TA's while performing such techniques optimally.

There's also a desire for a full team of players who can perform that particular technique at that level because there are no true options for anything less than 4 player competitive missions. This makes it further problematic to jump into and hence amass groups of people.

Overall, the bar appears very high for a casual player to even look toward which prevents potential players with interest from even trying.

you're really invalidating any type of speed runner who put time into learning any sort of high level technique. dashing is nowhere near as difficult as some of the shit people do elsewhere.

i'm not sure what your view on these exploits are, but i personally find it interesting to see how creative people can be with using the tools that exist in the game, "exploit" or not

and i really like the skill gap that separates the casual from competitive. if the person really wanted to compete, why not put in a few hours to learn some things? competing at the highest level never was easy. pso2 is no exception.

on that note, it'd really suck if this rumor of PSO2 west was true. i don't know how you guys put up with the obvious amount of connection problems we have as foreigners.

[jooozek]

the NA/EU english version should still happen because latency and people speaking english

[Kion]

Good riddance. It would be nice if they openly admitted it though. One thing seems really stupid in general, "we've already spent all of the money to localize the game, and we're not going to release it just because".

The problem with a Western release isn't a technical problem, it's the service. They have too many anime tie-ups to be able to get all of the rights in other regions, which basically means they need to make another client. And at this point I think we all have a good idea of how Sega does on their non-Japanese service...

[MetalDude]

I don't mind particular exploits, I just don't care for movement ones that necessitate constant input. I'd rather do complex inputs for more significant actions like in combat instead of movement which is like a majority of what you do in a TA.

Like in Street Fighter, you're required to know inputs as well as timings to do specials and link strings, but you don't need complex inputs just to do universal things like move. If there were more complexities on the melee side of the game, then I'd be much more willing to dive into that considering the effect it has on playing a melee class.

[TaigaUC]

Regardless of the source credibility, it's still very sad that SEGA has been silently sitting on the international version for over a year now.
They exude a strong impression of disorganization, incompetence and inconsideration.

I don't even care about the English version, but the least they could do is give everyone some kind of update on the situation.

[Gama]

Regardless of the source credibility, it's still very sad that SEGA has been silently sitting on the international version for over a year now.
They exude a strong impression of disorganization, incompetence and inconsideration.

I don't even care about the English version, but the least they could do is give everyone some kind of update on the situation.

company thinking.

they wont announce if they'll do it or not until they are sure its viable or not.


NA servers = completely different business model due to law, since rng is seen as gambling. it is anyway "you casino addicts"

add the issue that the game's overall appearance was designed to apeal to the japanese gamer base, it wont succeed outside of japan, wich will lead to another psu servers going ded drama.

you could say "everyone in this site loves the game"

everyone in this site is a small number compared to the numbers on a na release or the numbers providing high profit to sega. we are a niche outside of japan that enjoy this title, and we are already paying for it, so sega dosent even have a good reason to invest in something that will most likely be a utter failure.


you will probbly see pso nova being ported though. since its not online. will not require servers, bla bla bla.

[Shadowth117]

you're really invalidating any type of speed runner who put time into learning any sort of high level technique. dashing is nowhere near as difficult as some of the shit people do elsewhere.

i'm not sure what your view on these exploits are, but i personally find it interesting to see how creative people can be with using the tools that exist in the game, "exploit" or not

and i really like the skill gap that separates the casual from competitive. if the person really wanted to compete, why not put in a few hours to learn some things? competing at the highest level never was easy. pso2 is no exception.

on that note, it'd really suck if this rumor of PSO2 west was true. i don't know how you guys put up with the obvious amount of connection problems we have as foreigners.

I'm not arguing that. What I am arguing is that it is one of the most difficult techniques for almost anyone to get down and the type of skill required to make it work is completely different from anything in the rest of time attacking as far as PSO2 goes. I'm aware there are harder things, but this is also an mmo with officially supported time attacking. What this means is that its the developer's job to pick and choose what techniques the player should be allowed to use and how they can use them. And if they're intelligent and want to interest as many people as possible, clearly they'd like this to be accessible as possible. I'm sorry, but quad dashing is not "accessible" or even triple dashing is not accessible for an average player. Certainly not for someone using a controller who is literally forced to resort to macros or using the keyboard unnaturally to be able to achieve it.

Before you argue "lol kb/m master race....etc.", think about this game's audience. While not everyone is a longtime fan, this series has always, always been on consoles up to this point. And with the vita, it still is really. The point of this is that most players playing the game are probably more comfortable playing it with a controller since they're likely used to that playstyle. And overall SEGA has done well to accommodate this.

Remember, this isn't a fighting game which is based around blisteringly fast pattern button manipulation. This is a hack and slash style game with elements of TPSers added in. The controls in general likewise follow this and have the player master learning what a good way to confront whatever is. Its not a gameplay based around performing extremely precise combos to do anything at all. In addition, as I said, this is a game that unlike most that are speedrun/time attacked is actually supported in this way by its developers AND has the ability to be changed to reflect how the developers want the players to play. While its easy to argue that the developers are very out of touch given things they commented on during the Arks GP and current class balance, its not as if they can't and don't fix things all of the time.

Yeah, a bunch of games have things more difficult to pull off. But it doesn't really matter because those games aren't this game. And this game overall is played with very simplistic controls in mind. Not to mention the number of games with the difficult things done for speed runs/time attacks being exploits and the fact that they're done in offline games that don't get updated constantly. I can fully appreciate and understand the time people put in to learning things like that. But... at the same time for reasons I've already said I feel like its the wrong type of skill to see here and I actually know a number of people who are really discouraged from even trying TA on this because they can't see themselves doing that type of thing.


Onto your next point, I love exploits. I think they're cool for the same reason. But in a game that's able to be updated all of the time, there are things that belong and things that don't. For example, in my eyes, a photon art that lets you maybe jump over a part that normally one would have to fight through, as long as it doesn't skip too much, is neat and doesn't really disrupt how the player plays the game. However something like the dash exploits, which radically alter the style of input the player uses, particularly for something trivial like movement, are wrong and should be removed. I know I always cite PSU for many of my points, but again, I find myself bringing in something useful from there; there existed travel techniques in this game as well. However, they involved simply spamming a photon art to move forward. While that may be a bit oversimplified in terms of any kind of technique, they were also clearly simple enough that you found casual players using them because they were so natural. The same can clearly not be said of our all too familiar dash exploits here.

Of course, these opinions are my own and not what the developers think clearly. Although whether they support the dash techniques, have had difficulty figuring out a reasonable way to remove them as far as programming goes, or even are just plain unaware of what they are how they work is unknown as far as we know.


The thing is, there's a skill gap regardless. If one plays outside his circle of badass friends with random JP's or what have you, its quite easy to see the differences in the players. Suddenly you have players that are more focused on playing safe and staying alive when you're just used to dodging appropriately or attacking through something. You have players that really just don't have a clue how to kill things efficiently. You even have people who have a semblance of an idea, but just don't care enough to go all the way and be truly efficient.

Part of the problem here is without challenging normal missions or set missions where learning the good ways to play the maps matters, there's less of a visible skill gap period. And honestly, it begs the question of how much it even means in a game where this "skill" only means something in a minute category of missions that offer little reward in comparison to the endlessly more bountiful set of generic MPA's and AQ's. Of course, I'm digressing somewhat into whether one sees enjoyment/reason in TAing, but I think its somewhat relevant in this game right now.

I'm going to go back and bring up PSU to point out the fact that in that game, running fast mattered a lot. You were going to get more drops and money going fast. It was as simple as that. Whether drops were good or not was another thing, as we're clearly both aware of how RNG goes. However, the fact that you were in any way rewarded for going fast in this game meant something and gave more meaning to the concept of time attacking in this series. While I myself still enjoy Time Attack in what it is and fancy the idea of tackling other games with that in mind, I must say that I find myself really missing the worth in PSU's time attacking to the actual game.


As far as connection problems go, I'd imagine most people hardly notice them. Numbers pop up extremely fast given where the servers are and the fact that the majority of things related to core gameplay such as moving, attacking, jumping, hit reaction/order etc. are all client side really helps this game compared to the domestic point and click games we all know and lovehate. If you're not considering time attacking, people might notice on occasion their hits don't always come up in large mpa's of Japanese players, 2 monsters that spawn consecutively during a burst might die from a Japanese player's attacks but not theirs later on in a similar situation with all English players and uh... really as far as casual stuff goes, its pretty easy to miss the whole ping issue.

There's a lot it effects in TA and there's reason to think it even affects loading times a smidgen (though personally most JP players actually seem to load a bit slower or at the same time as me with the few surpassing my load times being kept up with by some of my other friends), but overall it doesn't affect the game as much as you may like to believe. In fact, I'd honestly say this game has the best netcode of almost any game I've played for the pings that it deals with. The fact it even comes close to any American games in that regard while I'm connecting to Japan confounds me, but eh.

Edit: Apologies in advance for hilariously strange sounding sentences or typos; its 5 AM as of this writing... Hopefully my points come across alright.

[UnLucky]

You realize Z-0 was talking about being able to compete with his peers on a level playing field with the same connection fidelity, right?

It's no lie that players in Japan have a slight advantage on account of their lower network latency due to their physical proximity to the servers.

Information is returned and displayed faster, causing mobs to spawn earlier, which can mean the player can react quicker, and most importantly a single attack has more opportunity to hit multiple times per swing.

Also you can reliably land on the mammoth in Nab 2 TA without falling through him. Yeah, that's lag.

[Lumpen Thingy]

You realize Z-0 was talking about being able to compete with his peers on a level playing field with the same connection fidelity, right?

It's no lie that players in Japan have a slight advantage on account of their lower network latency due to their physical proximity to the servers.

Information is returned and displayed faster, causing mobs to spawn earlier, which can mean the player can react quicker, and most importantly a single attack has more opportunity to hit multiple times per swing.

Also you can reliably land on the mammoth in Nab 2 TA without falling through him. Yeah, that's lag.
I can land on him most of the time...I guess my net is just that sexy :D

[Overlord Zenon]

I take all claims from "sources" as false till proven true. I admit I don't hold any hopes for PSO2 in English, but if it does make it out, it would be a surprise

[Railkune]

Whatever happens, happens. They don't announce anything, I'll be fine. If they do, it probably won't make a difference for me.

[Terrence]

Well, US version or not, I won't move from Pso2 JP to a possible new one. And despite I really shit on SEGA for the way they are acting with Gajin people, I understand they don't want to fail once more (Psu US). As said, AC Scratch, RNG any many slut outfits should be edited and this wouldn't be money-making.

[Emp]

company thinking.

they wont announce if they'll do it or not until they are sure its viable or not.


NA servers = completely different business model due to law, since rng is seen as gambling. it is anyway "you casino addicts"

add the issue that the game's overall appearance was designed to apeal to the japanese gamer base, it wont succeed outside of japan, wich will lead to another psu servers going ded drama.

you could say "everyone in this site loves the game"

everyone in this site is a small number compared to the numbers on a na release or the numbers providing high profit to sega. we are a niche outside of japan that enjoy this title, and we are already paying for it, so sega dosent even have a good reason to invest in something that will most likely be a utter failure.


you will probbly see pso nova being ported though. since its not online. will not require servers, bla bla bla.

This is what Ive been trying to say. PSO2 was developed with the jp community in mind and the outfit design is a prime example. There is a group of ppl who love outfits thst show a good bit of a girls body or are based off an anime but its only small fraction of the online mmo community (the world, not the forum).

MMORPGs are making a comeback throughout NA and EU because of the redundancy in FPS games like COD and HALO but PSO2 doesnt have that much hype to cause a rift in the increasing popularity of mobas like Lol.

[Rexob]

I'm going to try and act really surprised...O M G - lol

[Atmius]

but this is also an mmo with officially supported time attacking.

You say that, though the only reminder of it being officially supported is maybe two rankings a month if you're lucky, of one map, at a random time of day.

There are no titles related to TA as far as I'm aware, and no personal record of your best times for a specific mission/circumstances (eg. best 1/2/3/4 person time on each TA).

[Rexob]

Well, US version or not, I won't move from Pso2 JP to a possible new one. And despite I really shit on SEGA for the way they are acting with Gajin people, I understand they don't want to fail once more (Psu US). As said, AC Scratch, RNG any many slut outfits should be edited and this wouldn't be money-making.

No reason to swap either, JP PSU was an entire year ahead of the US version.

[Zenobia]

No reason to swap either, JP PSU was an entire year ahead of the US version.
LOL.....nailed it!

JP PSU FTW!

Good times!

[HIT0SHI]

No reason to swap either, JP PSU was an entire year ahead of the US version.

^ This.

Not only that, but I only noticed the lack of content against JP once the US servers went down just to see the differences...

Rage was bound to happen when I noticed all that I've missed by playing on the 360 version.

[Blue-Hawk]

I hate to say I told you guys so, but I did tell you guys.

GOD I HATE being right all the time.

[gigawuts]

I hate to say I told you guys so, but I did tell you guys.

GOD I HATE being right all the time.

ha ha ha

please stop

i can't take it

[ChaosAngel92]

I hate to say I told you guys so, but I did tell you guys.

GOD I HATE being right all the time.

Mind telling me tomorrow's lottery numbers?

[Blue-Hawk]

Mind telling me tomorrow's lottery numbers?

So I won't win? HELL no!

[ChaosAngel92]

So I won't win? HELL no!

heh, well played I think.

[gigawuts]

but more than one person can win a lottery

you just win less

like that time a whole ton of people won with numbers they found in fortune cookies ツ

[Enforcer MKV]

but more than one person can win a lottery

you just win less

like that time a whole ton of people won with numbers they found in fortune cookies ツ

You think he wants to share....?

Edit: See? SEE??? *rolls eyes*

[Blue-Hawk]

but more than one person can win a lottery

you just win less

like that time a whole ton of people won with numbers they found in fortune cookies ツ

But... But.... I want ALL of it. Why share?

Greed......

[Blue-Hawk]

You think he wants to share....?

JINX POST!

[gigawuts]

just something he wasn't right about, that's all ツ

[Blue-Hawk]

just something he wasn't right about, that's all ツ

I never said I was right all the time about everything, you know.

[gigawuts]

I never said I was right all the time about everything, you know.

you're right, you merely said you're right all the time...which means the same thing

60% of the time it works every time, etc.

[Blue-Hawk]

you're right, you merely said you're right all the time...which means the same thing

60% of the time it works every time, etc.

Only on the way you take it.

I'm wrong 98% of the time on all other things. I was right about things like this and I'm always right when it comes to me winning anything, which I never do.

I pride myself on being an optimistic pessimist.

[Enforcer MKV]

I never said I was right all the time about everything, you know.

......



I hate to say I told you guys so, but I did tell you guys.

GOD I HATE being right all the time.

...."All the time."

Think about what you said rather than what you meant. Adding 'about everything' is redundant and doesn't work as a convenient loophole to get you out of being wrong or going back on something. If you had said "I hate being right all the time" about whatever you consider 'things like this' then that'd be fine.

Buuuuut you didn't. So it's all inclusive.

[Blue-Hawk]

And one more thing to call me always right on this before I go to work- I know I'm right when I say people are laughing at me and calling me a loser and other things for being this way.

So, now that you are happy I'm gone for now, lets all get back on topic and back to doing what you do best- ignoring me.

See? I was right again.

[Rexob]

^ This.

Not only that, but I only noticed the lack of content against JP once the US servers went down just to see the differences...

Rage was bound to happen when I noticed all that I've missed by playing on the 360 version.

Always made me sad to read the upcoming patch notes for PSU where JP was getting new content / missions / etc & US - nothing; still patching the last botched update that was 8 months behind...

[HIT0SHI]

From what I heard, same thing happend to PSO1 but I never looked into it for any differences. I learned of my mistake from going to the US versions of this specific franchise, im stiking to the JP for now on if possible, especially sense I hit the jackpot with my rares and the fact that I don't want to grind to 60/60 again...

Not to metion grinding my gear again, fuck that noise!

[Rexob]

From what I heard, same thing happend to PSO1 but I never looked into it for any differences. I learned of my mistake from going to the US versions of this specific franchise, im stiking to the JP for now on if possible, especially sense I hit the jackpot with my rares and the fact that I don't want to grind to 60/60 again...

Not to metion grinding my gear again, fuck that noise!

Agreed...not going to bother playing the grossly neglected version again lol.

[MetalDude]

From what I heard, same thing happend to PSO1 but I never looked into it for any differences. I learned of my mistake from going to the US versions of this specific franchise, im stiking to the JP for now on if possible, especially sense I hit the jackpot with my rares and the fact that I don't want to grind to 60/60 again...

Not to metion grinding my gear again, fuck that noise!

In the case of BB at least, yeah. Off the top of my head there was MA4, Black Paper Deal 2, and a number of different item exchange quests that were JP-only. Episode 4 was kind of a joke on the US side because we got very little content beyond what was released for it as far as I can remember.

[pkemr4]

even if this game gets released in NA. we will never see any of the anime collab stuff or miku stuff. (this happened with an old mmo i played where the jp server had railgun stuff, durara stuff (weapons, custom skills), and a few other stuff but Never got released in the NA ver)

[Shirai]

At this point, I don't see why SEGA should even waste time on a NA release. The amount of players probably wouldn't even bother switching ( oh, it'd be joyous if they were to) so the community would be pretty slim. There also wouldn't be as much updates per week/bi-weekly or whatever. Some already complain about the lack of updates Japanese version gets, just imagine the NA/EU one.

[Rexob]

At this point, I don't see why SEGA should even waste time on a NA release. The amount of players probably wouldn't even bother switching ( oh, it'd be joyous if they were to) so the community would be pretty slim. There also wouldn't be as much updates per week/bi-weekly or whatever. Some already complain about the lack of updates Japanese version gets, just imagine the NA/EU one.

This, and while sometimes the updates are just re-releases, at least it's something...a lot of Western games, players wait months for "new content". I realize those games are designed differently, but I can't complain with how PSO is designed. PSO isn't designed with tiered Raid content to the same extent traditional Western mmos have.

[Shadowth117]

You realize Z-0 was talking about being able to compete with his peers on a level playing field with the same connection fidelity, right?

It's no lie that players in Japan have a slight advantage on account of their lower network latency due to their physical proximity to the servers.

Information is returned and displayed faster, causing mobs to spawn earlier, which can mean the player can react quicker, and most importantly a single attack has more opportunity to hit multiple times per swing.

Also you can reliably land on the mammoth in Nab 2 TA without falling through him. Yeah, that's lag.

Dude, believe me I'm very aware of what latency is and how it works. But then, I was referring to Esofor's post, not Z-0's here. I believe I even mentioned that it meant more in time attack. Obviously being able to blow away 20ish creatures at once in the beginning of Nab II is pretty meaningful. Not to mention the biggest kicker in my opinion; sextuple dash. I've played more than enough online games in various places of the world to have an idea of how that goes thank you very much.

On a side note, I've managed to land on the mammoth on airplane wifi on Vita before. I don't think its just latency personally when I managed that on ping that took a full second or more to do anything. Yes, I sat there dumbfounded for a second when this happened.


You say that, though the only reminder of it being officially supported is maybe two rankings a month if you're lucky, of one map, at a random time of day.

There are no titles related to TA as far as I'm aware, and no personal record of your best times for a specific mission/circumstances (eg. best 1/2/3/4 person time on each TA).

Lets just ignore the whole ARKS GP competition they had on multiple live streams then. Yeah I'm aware there's been hardly a shit given about it lately, but the fact remains there are missions specifically called time attack missions for time attacking. Previous games occasionally had rankings for events or certain missions, but they never had missions they intentionally built for time attacking (unless there's something in PSO I'm forgetting about). The missions in general in the previous games may have worked better for it, but they still weren't officially sanctioned. So yeah, I'd say that having time attack missions at all, especially with how much they advertised them before the game was out is pretty big even if little was done with it in the end. At one point in the game there were an annoying amount of TA rankings all of the time though clearly its different now.

You're right of course, little has ever been done to reward players who attempt them. No titles, hardly anything meaningful gained if you do win a ranking. In all fairness, you could argue past games gave no real reward for it either outside certain events. But in those there were usually good drops to get anyways. Anything that's not Sanctum ta is a joke in that respect. Arks GP missions in that respect are hardly worth mentioning. But the fact that they've made missions specifically for TA, shitty or not, is quite meaningful in my opinion as far as support goes.

[gigawuts]

All I want is longer missions with nicer rewards. Take sanctum TA, turn it into an hour long ordeal with large, snaking maps that aren't random like a free field with doors you have to kill things to get past. Remove the time limit, give the boss a permanently boosted droprate to account for the long run time.

Bam, content I would love and content that would flourish in the western market as it is right now.

[Shadowth117]

All I want is longer missions with nicer rewards. Take sanctum TA, turn it into an hour long ordeal with large, snaking maps that aren't random like a free field with doors you have to kill things to get past. Remove the time limit, give the boss a permanently boosted droprate to account for the long run time.

Bam, content I would love and content that would flourish in the western market as it is right now.

Sure why not? That sounds fun as hell. To really make it matter more, drop some end boxes at the end with exclusive stuff. Than not only do you have a boss with potentially nice drops, but you also have a mission that is in itself unique for having rewards you can't find anywhere else. I feel like that would really help differentiate some missions.

But honestly, that would be awesome. Just some kind of mission that isn't repeatedly murdering random, poorly placed spawns. Do something like original darker's den deal too where you can't go back to the campship if you die. Or there's always the really crazy option of making stuff like the first version of darker's den which I would be completely okay with. With high levels and all of the silly nerfs they've done to it, its but a mockery of the mission it used to be.

Edit: Not to mention that at the time, Darker's Den had a whole bunch of exclusive stuff because the enemies weren't everywhere. If they had endboxes though, they could have items exclusive to the mission and still have as much freedom as they wanted with enemy selection. Honestly, I'd still like to see a mission that tours through multiple areas of the game ala towards the future.

[Zenobia]

My only beef is that there is no difficulty in this game at all not by a long shot.

If sega ever wanted to input difficulty in this game they first need to make it so that dieing matters cause right now that does not matter worth a damn, and before anybody runs that shit about go in no weps or no equips, let me just say again that I shouldn't have to purposely gimp myself to make the game challenging cause that's bullshit.

Game should be challenging even when I wear my best gear and should reward my efforts for playing well which this game doesn't games only revolves around getting lucky and the luck factor in this game is just to lol for me to fathom.

Another problem is Weak bullet its to fucking good like really most broken skill in the game and I honestly don't see SH as a game changer like ppl keeping saying cause it won't,WB will turn all SH bosses into normal bosses no lie.

The thing is the Japaneses players do not like a challenge it seems and if the enemies are to hard they nerf em AKA sharks. Same applies to the community here which is why I feel if they ever nerfed weak bullets multipliers players would complain.

[MetalDude]

If by making dying matter more, you mean creating quests that stress proper positioning more by building enemy spawns that are unique and aggressive (and last for more than two hits) and punish your team by putting more stress on them for making up for your mistakes, then I agree.

I don't think death itself should have any other real penalties otherwise.

[Zenobia]

If by making dying matter more, you mean creating quests that stress proper positioning more by building enemy spawns that are unique and aggressive (and last for more than two hits) and punish your team by putting more stress on them for making up for your mistakes, then I agree.

I don't think death itself should have any other real penalties otherwise.

Pretty damn much.

[gigawuts]

I wish positioning mattered more. That's what I want. Enemies that won't 2shot you, and won't be 2shot themselves. Make enemies harder to flinchlock, make player flinchlock escapable, make enemies prioritize far away enemies and use distanced attacks accordingly, etc.

It actually wouldn't really be too difficult.

But first I want to see sdef and rdef combined into the same stat :/ Having to pick between only sdef, only rdef, only tdef, or mediocre of two is pretty annoying.

edit: What I'm getting at is this is where Sega always fails - and lots of other companies. They put all this work into the framework, then never actually make enough content. Look at what this game has...go through 2-3 areas and kill the boss or clear the code. That is EVERYTHING IN THE GAME, barring only 5 TAs. Those 2-3 areas rarely have anything of actual substance. Everything can be steamrolled. We have this great framework and then everything built onto it just falls short. Skilltrees? Framework good, actual skills bad. Maps? Randomness potentially good, content in maps bad. Bosses? Interactive and potentially challenging, but either not a threat or 1shotting you.

They have no idea what to do with what they've got and it'll be the death of the game - and it's why it wouldn't do very well in the west. Games like these sell themselves on good content, not good concepts. Even HORRIBLE games will be successful in the short term if they have a whole ton of content to work through, because people just want something to do with their time.

[MetalDude]

There are so many simple things that would make me play the hell out of the game if they'd just ditch the damn "Randomize ALL the things!" garbage and stick to actually trying to design good quests. I loved what you said earlier about a particularly long variant of Sanctum TA with beefier enemies, more dangerous spawns, and a really rewarding finish.

[Shadowth117]

The thing is, if you compare dieing alone in this game to dieing in a party, you'll find that being in a party is what really ends up breaking it. Assuming you're not whoring dolls or something every time you die, story missions, ta missions/arks gp quests, and den will all just end upon your death. That's pretty cool. What's not is the fact that any other quest just allows you to go up to the campship and go back down, albeit with a lost rank.

But then you have parties and that crap suddenly matters very little because if by chance something does manage to kill you, than you're just going to be revived. Nothing is long enough or difficult enough, besides initial release den maybe with the equips and levels of the time, to really be even somewhat of a challenge.

Parties really can work, but they have to make it so that you're not completely invincible without even trying because missions are too short to highlight your limited item stock and almost always let you return to the campship at will. Remove that ability like in once again, TA, ARKS GP stuff, and story quests, and if the missions are long enough you may have something.

Also, when I refer to story quests, do note I'm referring to the potential ability to die in them. I'm aware they're painfully easy to get through as they are.

[supersonix9]

i don't see why we're talking about difficulty when the most difficult stuff has been out for half a year; i know that pso2 isn't dark souls, but we've had so much time to master the game for christ's sake

oh, and i don't feel like taking the time to carefully read other posts in this thread

[Shadowth117]

i don't see why we're talking about difficulty when the most difficult stuff has been out for half a year; i know that pso2 isn't dark souls, but we've had so much time to master the game for christ's sake

oh, and i don't feel like taking the time to carefully read other posts in this thread

Its more that a lot of us feel that there should be content focused around players who have taken the time to master it as you say as well. It seems like most of the things released are only focused on the more casual players. In an mmo, ideally you want to have content for all of the people that play your game, whether they be players who enjoy MPAing, changing their appearance, or whatever. That's fair to ask for I'd say, particularly if one is paying premiums.

[supersonix9]

Its more that a lot of us feel that there should be content focused around players who have taken the time to master it as you say as well. It seems like most of the things released are only focused on the more casual players. In an mmo, ideally you want to have content for all of the people that play your game, whether they be players who enjoy MPAing, changing their appearance, or whatever. That's fair to ask for I'd say, particularly if one is paying premiums.

fair enough, but I don't think I could ever expect a game like that from anyone

[gigawuts]

i don't see why we're talking about difficulty when the most difficult stuff has been out for half a year; i know that pso2 isn't dark souls, but we've had so much time to master the game for christ's sake

oh, and i don't feel like taking the time to carefully read other posts in this thread

Well, that's the thing. It seems like some people do want it to be like dark souls. I don't myself. I want strategy and positioning to matter more, but not with penalty of failure being instadeath with megaflinch and uber1shotting. That just isn't fun.

[Shadowth117]

Well, that's the thing. It seems like some people do want it to be like dark souls. I don't myself. I want strategy and positioning to matter more, but not with penalty of failure being instadeath with megaflinch and uber1shotting. That just isn't fun.

Well while I enjoy Dark Souls, that's not quite what I'd personally say I want either. And even then, I think you've got an improper view of how it plays.

Anyways, cheap deaths aren't necessary. Being juggled to death from an attack combo beginning with a lightning fast unpredictable hit is lame. I'd just like to see enemies that can do more than stare at you for a minute straight before finally deciding maybe they should try to attack you.

[Zenobia]

Agreed here I am not saying for shit to one shot you know just the flinching you to death shit like giga mentioned is a low blow lol.

Like If a enemy KD's me KD=Knock down I should be knocked the fuck down I shouldn't take another hit WHILE ON THE GROUND!

The shit I have seen from that a lone is eye popping lol. *Looking at you falz hands* dat juggle~!

[gigawuts]

Well while I enjoy Dark Souls, that's not quite what I'd personally say I want either. And even then, I think you've got an improper view of how it plays.

Anyways, cheap deaths aren't necessary. Being juggled to death from an attack combo beginning with a lightning fast unpredictable hit is lame. I'd just like to see enemies that can do more than stare at you for a minute straight before finally deciding maybe they should try to attack you.

That's not how I see dark souls - that's how I see a PSO2 with dark souls "difficulty."

Dark Souls paces itself much slower. Rewards are doled out much more easily, and merely accessing a location is often justification enough to give you a reward. In PSO2? Imagine having to kill every boss 70 times before finding an item that you then have to improve at Dudu. Yeah, fuck that.

PSO2 and dark souls "difficulty" are not compatible.

[Shadowth117]

That's fair to say. They are carried out very differently so its not completely fair to compare them like this.

Although sadly, I feel like I can honestly say I'd prefer killing a boss 70 times and assuredly getting a decent rare to the system we have now. I still remember spamming quartz dragon and vader for matter board items at one point not getting anything worthwhile after literally hundreds and hundreds of kills.

Now dealing with dudu is its own deal.

[gigawuts]

Oh, agreed, but 70 times was just a number I pulled out of my hat. As Amduscia maps have demonstrated an area will not have better droprates simply because rushing the boss is more tedious, and thus more time consuming.

[Shadowth117]

Ugh... we need a meme for the Caves walls...

[gigawuts]

Hm

Lockblocked? I dunno.

[Overlord Zenon]

so we have this version and the soon Kor English version, so in a nut shell, should we give a shit?

[Scarlet-Star]

This just makes me want to give SEGa the golden Middle finger, true or no.

They apparently, JUST got Atlus... if you've really got Atlus, you've got no viable reason to not release it...

[xxmadplayerxx]

Way to late now anyway, but this is good news, as SOJ will have more time to focus on the Japanese version

[UnLucky]

Dude, believe me I'm very aware of what latency is and how it works. But then, I was referring to Esofor's post, not Z-0's here. I believe I even mentioned that it meant more in time attack. Obviously being able to blow away 20ish creatures at once in the beginning of Nab II is pretty meaningful. Not to mention the biggest kicker in my opinion; sextuple dash. I've played more than enough online games in various places of the world to have an idea of how that goes thank you very much.
Well you first replied to Z-0 mentioning competition with a huge rant about triple dashing.

Double and Knuckle/Dagger dashing is really easy. You just hold/spam a button. And pretty sure a lot of people use controllers to 3x+ dash anyway, which would be the only difficult part.

About accessibility, well, most people don't really care to get top times. And with dashing exploits removed, many still couldn't compete on account of their gear. Patching out these techniques would only hurt the people who care about Time Attacking in the first place. They'd still get the top times, only with less opportunity to improve their times further.

As for speeding through other content, you definitely do get rewarded for it, at least in the sheer number of attempts you can manage in the same amount of time. There's no SSS ranking mission completion reward or anything, but you get more rolls at the dice which is all you can really hope for.

Not to mention double dashing is really helpful for dodging attacks, so I would hate to say goodbye to these minor speed hacks.

All I want is longer missions with nicer rewards. Take sanctum TA, turn it into an hour long ordeal with large, snaking maps that aren't random like a free field with doors you have to kill things to get past. Remove the time limit, give the boss a permanently boosted droprate to account for the long run time.

Bam, content I would love and content that would flourish in the western market as it is right now.
And then you error out 2 hours in and lose all progress since you can't rejoin!

Yeah, obviously that would have to change before we can get "good" missions, but mixed with some other ideas for increased difficulty, it's a hard fit. Like if you couldn't return to campship, either upon death or otherwise, all you would have to do is drop party and join back up.

And revives are way too overpowered. Every party member can revive five times. That's not even just 5 other players, that's a max of 55 total revives (well, technically you can sometimes revive yourself with your own Moon). And if you run out, most times you can just go back and get more. Or if everyone dies, only one person has to go back for more, and only they take the ranking penalty.

I'd love to see Half Dolls in the NPC shop (or Quarter dolls, or 1HP doll, idk), Moons disabled for certain missions, and S ranks that matter. Or incap count without returning to the campship drops your ranking (maybe with a 3-5 death threshold instead of 1).

[gigawuts]

I genuinely do not understand this bizarre obsession with player death being required to have some kind of insurmountable penalty.

Dying isn't a big deal. So fucking what?

I literally described PSO1, tit for tat, in that post. Longer mission, killing to get past doors, bosses with way better droprates. Did death matter in that game? Not as of the GC version it didn't, and that's the one I started with so...

[UnLucky]

Well, you can't have any difficulty at all if you can just throw yourself endlessly at anything long enough and eventually succeed.

Unless you want the only penalty to be time and opportunity costs.

[supersonix9]

and hell, moon atomizers even insta-revived in that game.

death penalty in pso2 would fucking ruin it in almost every case

[Inazuma]

I genuinely do not understand this bizarre obsession with player death being required to have some kind of insurmountable penalty.

Dying isn't a big deal. So fucking what?

I literally described PSO1, tit for tat, in that post. Longer mission, killing to get past doors, bosses with way better droprates. Did death matter in that game? Not as of the GC version it didn't, and that's the one I started with so...

PSOBB Japan version, the only version of PSO1 that wasn't completely ruined by foreign players, had an exp penalty if you died. I can't remember if scape dolls protected you from losing exp or not. I may be getting confused with PSU.

[MetalDude]

You lost EXP even with Scape Dolls and it was a % penalty which pretty much made anything past 150+ a fucking terrible loss. Most private servers remove it because it's just plain dumb.

[Pentence]

so we have this version and the soon Kor English version, so in a nut shell, should we give a shit?

This sums up my thoughts. Presuming the source is right about it .

Why care at all if they intend to release an eng text version for english speaking asian countries?

Fucking WIN WIN if ya ask me

[Inazuma]

You lost EXP even with Scape Dolls and it was a % penalty which pretty much made anything past 150+ a fucking terrible loss. Most private servers remove it because it's just plain dumb.

Yeah, that sounds right. You would still have the exp penalty even with scape dolls. I wish we had that in PSO2. Even a 1% or less exp penalty would be awesome.

[MetalDude]

I don't know. Death penalties work in place of games where you're legitimately punished for self-failure. In the case of PSO, you would die quickly because of bad positioning. In PSO2, it's because 5 things simultaneously decided to attack you within the same frame of flinchlock, resulting in a death you had little control over.

[Zyrusticae]

Well, you can't have any difficulty at all if you can just throw yourself endlessly at anything long enough and eventually succeed.

Unless you want the only penalty to be time and opportunity costs.
What?

You pretty much just described Dark Souls in that one sentence. And many people consider it one of the most difficult games of this generation (though admittedly that's not saying much).

Even death itself IS a time cost. Making the penalty steeper just costs you more time (and time is money, opportunity, etc., so saying both of those is just redundant).

Losing a massive amount of time or, really, anything because you made a few mistakes is not fun or encouraging or even remotely beneficial. All it really tests is your patience. Some people enjoy this, but frankly, they are masochists. They're likely the same people who enjoy grinding and affixing because, yes, all those systems do is test your patience. That's it. How fun! (/sar)

Mechanical difficulty is far more useful. Having to come up with a strategy in terms of kill order, having to know when to dodge and when to move, knowing a particular enemy's tells and attack patterns, these are all aspects of difficulty that can be improved as opposed to simply stacking penalty on top of penalty on players for making mistakes.

You should want to add enough failure points where a player can make mistakes and is punished for it such that they feel like they accomplished something at the end, but you do not want to penalize them so harshly for making mistakes that they don't get a chance to learn and improve (or give up first, for that matter). I would like to have a game mode that actually gets me to start sweating, not because I'm concerned about losing progress, but because I have to make a lot of rapid decisions simply in order to survive. If the game could ever get to that point, I'd never put it down. Honestly.

[UnLucky]

Uh, not exactly, since everything respawns if you die, and you lose all the souls you had collected up to that point if you die again.

I mean how it is in PSO2, if you die, you lose zero progress. You revive and you are exactly where you were before. You don't have to clear anything all over again.

It's like playing any arcade game with infinite credits. Well, some of them restart the level, so let's not count those.

[strikerhunter]

What?

You pretty much just described Dark Souls in that one sentence. And many people consider it one of the most difficult games of this generation (though admittedly that's not saying much).

Even death itself IS a time cost. Making the penalty steeper just costs you more time (and time is money, opportunity, etc., so saying both of those is just redundant).

Losing a massive amount of time or, really, anything because you made a few mistakes is not fun or encouraging or even remotely beneficial. All it really tests is your patience. Some people enjoy this, but frankly, they are masochists. They're likely the same people who enjoy grinding and affixing because, yes, all those systems do is test your patience. That's it. How fun! (/sar)

Mechanical difficulty is far more useful. Having to come up with a strategy in terms of kill order, having to know when to dodge and when to move, knowing a particular enemy's tells and attack patterns, these are all aspects of difficulty that can be improved as opposed to simply stacking penalty on top of penalty on players for making mistakes.

You should want to add enough failure points where a player can make mistakes and is punished for it such that they feel like they accomplished something at the end, but you do not want to penalize them so harshly for making mistakes that they don't get a chance to learn and improve (or give up first, for that matter). I would like to have a game mode that actually gets me to start sweating, not because I'm concerned about losing progress, but because I have to make a lot of rapid decisions simply in order to survive. If the game could ever get to that point, I'd never put it down. Honestly.

Basically making it harder but worth to play even if failed and that that is an accomplishment instead of making something so hard that it isn't even worth investing time into it.

Pretty much sounds like the traditional MMO raids where you encounter challenging courses but its fun and a learning experience worth to do. Comparing to something like trying to go 18-0 and win the super bowl where you know that 1 game in the playoffs will screw you over and that it ain't fun to loose in the end.

[Zyrusticae]

Uh, not exactly, since everything respawns if you die, and you lose all the souls you had collected up to that point if you die again.

I mean how it is in PSO2, if you die, you lose zero progress. You revive and you are exactly where you were before. You don't have to clear anything all over again.

It's like playing any arcade game with infinite credits. Well, some of them restart the level, so let's not count those.
That's not really the point.

PSO2 is far lighter on the death penalty (unless you play solo, in which case the death penalty is horrifyingly overwrought in a boss fight since it fails the entire run for you), and frankly, I don't care to see this change. It's completely unnecessary. Add more points where it's possible for the entire team to die and fail instead of making revives more difficult or something and that would go a long way to making things better.

[strikerhunter]

Why not just limit the amount of moons instead?

[UnLucky]

Like say they made a really fair boss. It has well telegraphed attacks, which all only hit once and won't juggle you or stun you at all, you might even survive one if you have good gear. But make enough consecutive mistakes, either tactical or mechanical, and you will die. It doesn't have unending health, but it's not a joke fight, and gets harder in stages.

How does any of that matter if you can literally get hit by every single attack and just get back up to keep spamming Over End?

[Zyrusticae]

Rather than start a new thread, I thought I'd bump this one with some new information:

SEGA has shut down all official Yakuza sites outside of Japan. (http://yakuzafan.com/post/62617991224/sega-has-shut-down-all-official-yakuza-sub-sites)

In case anyone still held hope that a Western version was a thing that still existed in some form or fashion, this is yet another nail in the coffin.

[gigawuts]

So first Sega backs out of the console market, and now it backs out of the international market?

[Kion]

Rather than start a new thread, I thought I'd bump this one with some new information:

SEGA has shut down all official Yakuza sites outside of Japan. (http://yakuzafan.com/post/62617991224/sega-has-shut-down-all-official-yakuza-sub-sites)

In case anyone still held hope that a Western version was a thing that still existed in some form or fashion, this is yet another nail in the coffin.

This kind of confirms my suspicions that it isn't just a Pso2 thing, that in general Sega either isn't focusing on the western market, or there's a complete lack of communication inside their company.

What's interesting about that, is that they're able to expand the completely localized English version of the game into south east asia without any problems.

I've talked with my boss about this a lot, Sammy Holdings is the pachinko company that bought Sega. His theory is that Sammy doesn't really care about the actual game business and using Sega to expand their pachinko market.

Who knows, but what is surprising is the complete lack of information. Shouldn't there be some kind of press release or someone who can give information? It's like they've disappeared off the face of the planet.

[Myriarch]

I know it was WAY overdue to throw out this but...^^;

[SPOILER-BOX]http://www.nintenu.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/Did-You-Know-Gaming-Isao-Okawa-and-SEGA.png[/SPOILER-BOX]

[pkemr4]

Rather than start a new thread, I thought I'd bump this one with some new information:

SEGA has shut down all official Yakuza sites outside of Japan. (http://yakuzafan.com/post/62617991224/sega-has-shut-down-all-official-yakuza-sub-sites)

In case anyone still held hope that a Western version was a thing that still existed in some form or fashion, this is yet another nail in the coffin.

LOL! whats next persona 5 becomes japanese only and never comes to us?

[Inazuma]

Rather than start a new thread, I thought I'd bump this one with some new information:

SEGA has shut down all official Yakuza sites outside of Japan. (http://yakuzafan.com/post/62617991224/sega-has-shut-down-all-official-yakuza-sub-sites)

In case anyone still held hope that a Western version was a thing that still existed in some form or fashion, this is yet another nail in the coffin.

If you like Sega games, you need to learn Japanese.

[ZcRaider]

All sega has to do is follow through with what they orignally had going during beta testing.

Keep one game. Just provide translation for the text and story. Undo the freakin TOS Gaijin warning. All is well. (How you gonna change the ToS a few months AFTER I digitally sign it?)

But thats not going to happen. So, im just going to enjoy this game while i can, before sega finds a reason to give us the IP_Hammer. Give me a reason to work on my japanese for anime.

[gazer000]

I have absolutely no faith in SEA PSO2. Living there btw and Asiasoft is like Nexon in the West, Customer Support Ticket? You'll get the answer after 1 year. Events? Nothing. It's not a good idea to move there, especially when PSO2 is using GameGuard, there'll be a hack program after 3 days and you guys can guess what'll happen next.

[Emp]

So I was on Kotaku and found this: http://kotaku.com/getting-jrpgs-out-in-english-is-harder-than-you-think-1441094168

Just think how difficult it would be for Sega to do PSO2 on both pc and vita.

[Gardios]

So I was on Kotaku and found this: http://kotaku.com/getting-jrpgs-out-in-english-is-harder-than-you-think-1441094168

Just think how difficult it would be for Sega to do PSO2 on both pc and vita.

That's normal localization work. It shouldn't be an issue whatsoever for any company that's been in the business for a while.

[gigawuts]

I can do an exposition on building a PC that makes it sound heinously complex and difficult but that won't change the fact that teenagers do it all the time.

Like Gardios said, that's normal work. They get paid to do it. It's their job.

A job Aida and good number of others do in their spare time, despite Sega's roadblocks.

[TaigaUC]

It's not surprising that teenagers build PCs all the time.
I personally think it's better to learn complex things early.
The brain develops to accommodate.
Once you've grown up, learning becomes more difficult for various psychological, sociological and physiological reasons.

It's amusing that society seems to assume the opposite, ie. that kids are dumb and incapable.
Kids aren't dumb, it's people in general that don't know anything who are dumb.
Adults stubbornly strive to be dumb because new concepts make them feel insecure.
You don't see kids insisting they are right all the time. Well, back in the old days anyway.

[GradationAir]

So I was on Kotaku and found this: http://kotaku.com/getting-jrpgs-out-in-english-is-harder-than-you-think-1441094168

Just think how difficult it would be for Sega to do PSO2 on both pc and vita.

That's pretty easy, compared to the text dumps fan translators have to work with(that is, after they crack the encryption).

[gigawuts]

You don't see kids insisting they are right all the time. Well, back in the old days anyway.

You're saying this on PSOW of all places?

[Kion]

I don't know why people are bringing up translation in the first place. Sega already has the game fully translated in English and are using it for release in South East Asia and not NA\EU. Not to mention that they've had no issue localizing any previous games in the series or other series. That's a non-issue.

It's more likely that poor sales and issues PSU, PSP have caused them to loose confidence in the NA market and they're withdrawing from the market completely without a formal press announcement as it would hurt their company image. Or, they're buying Atlus to use that as their publisher for the NA version come 2014 on account of SoA being total asshats. We'll just have to wait and see.

[Valimer]

Let's face it, NA players will see "No PvP" and instantly turn away from PSO2. A sad reality.

[Totori]

I don't know why people are bringing up translation in the first place. Sega already has the game fully translated in English and are using it for release in South East Asia and not NA\EU. Not to mention that they've had no issue localizing any previous games in the series or other series. That's a non-issue.

It's more likely that poor sales and issues PSU, PSP have caused them to loose confidence in the NA market and they're withdrawing from the market completely without a formal press announcement as it would hurt their company image. Or, they're buying Atlus to use that as their publisher for the NA version come 2014 on account of SoA being total asshats. We'll just have to wait and see.

I can honestly say that's prolly not what they are doing, I seriously doubt PSO2 has anything to do with ATLUS. 100% down I can say that's not the reason they wanted to buy them, we also have no clue if SEGA getting ahold of Index has anything to do with the localization company. Which is ATLUS USA, chances are they are still going to be in the same building with the same scope of work they always been used to.

But I guess we won't know that answer until later November, as how it's going to actually effect ATLUS.

I still stand with it's not cancelled, NDA's are just why SEGA's so deathly silent about the game.

[jooozek]

man no idea why people are still affiliating the western fuckups with soa and not soj

[yoshiblue]

Let's face it, NA players will see "No PvP" and instantly turn away from PSO2. A sad reality.

Additional bullet juggle all the things!

[Zyrusticae]

I still stand with it's not cancelled, NDA's are just why SEGA's so deathly silent about the game.
Complete nonsense. Whoever is in charge of SEGA could still say something, they just choose not to say it, ever, at all.

Though to be fair, saying "yes, we cancelled it" would put them in a very negative spotlight... but so does saying nothing at all.

[Totori]

Complete nonsense. Whoever is in charge of SEGA could still say something, they just choose not to say it, ever, at all.

Though to be fair, saying "yes, we cancelled it" would put them in a very negative spotlight... but so does saying nothing at all.

Maybe, but is it not NDA's that are keeping them from explaining what process the game is in right now?

Also they have "said" something about the game, that it is delayed.

[yoshiblue]

Taking bare minimum to the next level.

[Rosel]

It will flop hard in the west.

The current Japanese version content would already create a laughing stock to NA MMO players. I can only imagine the ridicule that the launch version would receive.

It would just be a breeding grounds for creepy lolicons just like TERA became after a few months.

Not to mention the repetitive combat, early 2000s graphics, out of place music soundtrack, and gross art direction which would cause reviewers everywhere to point and laugh.

I say bravo SEGA for making the smart move not to bring this trash heap to NA.

[Totori]

It would rather perform like every other niche JRPG game, it's gonna have it's fans. But I don't get the part about "creepy lolicons having a breeding ground", do you see the content this game has as that extreme?,

I really see reviewers, well... well known ones kinda kissing this game up, and repetitive combat is in almost every MMO.

[pkemr4]

It will flop hard in the west.

The current Japanese version content would already create a laughing stock to NA MMO players. I can only imagine the ridicule that the launch version would receive.

It would just be a breeding grounds for creepy lolicons just like TERA became after a few months.

Not to mention the repetitive combat, early 2000s graphics, out of place music soundtrack, and gross art direction which would cause reviewers everywhere to point and laugh.

I say bravo SEGA for making the smart move not to bring this trash heap to NA.

this. also na mmo players wont like the premuim system, grind system, the bad 10* drop rates, affixing % and scratchs...

[Lumpen Thingy]

It will flop hard in the west.

The current Japanese version content would already create a laughing stock to NA MMO players. I can only imagine the ridicule that the launch version would receive.

It would just be a breeding grounds for creepy lolicons just like TERA became after a few months.

Not to mention the repetitive combat, early 2000s graphics, out of place music soundtrack, and gross art direction which would cause reviewers everywhere to point and laugh.

I say bravo SEGA for making the smart move not to bring this trash heap to NA.
Ok this is a load of shit this game would gain a shit load of fans hell I know people that played PSO and PSU that would love to play the NA version when it ever does come out. Saying that this would flop is like saying any and every other f2p rpg would flop.
P.S. I just love how you bash this game every chance you get when it doesn't even deserve it most of the time like PSU did btw lol

[MetalDude]

PSO2 is sincerely not a well-designed game though. It's got likeable aspects, but its potential has not even been scratched and I don't think it ever will with the current setup they have going on. Compared to western MMOs which have done a significantly better job at responding to their players' comments, PSO2 is barely responsive in terms of providing major changes.

[Sp-24]

Ok this is a load of shit this game would gain a shit load of fans hell I know people that played PSO and PSU that would love to play the NA version when it ever does come out. Saying that this would flop is like saying any and every other f2p rpg would flop.
P.S. I just love how you bash this game every chance you get when it doesn't even deserve it most of the time like PSU did btw lol
And how does "every other" F2P game perform? Going free is often, if not always, a sign that the game shifts from growing to withering, clinging to its existing players and sucking as much money as possible off them instead of widening the player base. There's a reason why rights to a lot of those "free" games outside of whatever asian country they came from belong to few companies that have running their games into the ground with cash shop as a legitimate business strategy.

And PSO2 started like that in Japan. From the very first day, it would milk its players out of their money for Premium, which costs as much as a subscription to another MMO, AC Scratch, which, surprise, is updated a lot more often than any other part of the game, and auxiliary crap like beauty shop passes and ship transfers, all the while throttling the content updates as slowly as possible.

To put it frankly, shit like that just doesn't fly in the US. Not with all the competition. The only chance PSO2 has in the west now is with Asiasoft, and something tells me no one is looking forward to that. It's actually a realistic possibility, too, since Sega seems to copy Koei's actions with DWO to a letter.

[UnLucky]

Going F2P is because P2P can't compete with all the free games out there that everyone is playing.

Starting out as F2P is completely different, which a lot of very popular and successful games have done.

PSO2's F2P model is a bit wonky, but the principle is the same. People play for free, people pay a little, people pay a lot. Huge playerbase, huge income.

[Totori]

PSO2 is sincerely not a well-designed game though. It's got likeable aspects, but its potential has not even been scratched and I don't think it ever will with the current setup they have going on. Compared to western MMOs which have done a significantly better job at responding to their players' comments, PSO2 is barely responsive in terms of providing major changes.

Ehh, PSO2's dev team has listened and made changes as the community asked (if reasonable that is) Also you aren't in the development team, how can you say what's it's full potential?

[UnLucky]

you aren't in the development team, how can you say what's it's full potential?

By playing it? The hell...?

[gigawuts]

I'm not a chef, so I guess I'm not qualified to say my dinner needs salt.

[MetalDude]

They've made adjustments at a fairly reasonable pace, but their sense of balance is utterly atrocious (Techer is still a joke and can't even function without FO very efficiently yet GU gets an insane 200% damage buff). Buffs and adjustments usually involve "THROW AS MANY BIG NUMBERS AT IT AS POSSIBLE!". Quest content is terrible and either blocked with dumb entry fees or is just lackluster in general. Terrible drop rates that encourage you to instead go through a paywall to get what you want.

And one phrase: RNG. Christ, it's everywhere.

The game is a sore disappointment in so many aspects, that is why it is so far away from reaching what it really could be (in terms of achieving good game design).

[UnLucky]

I'm not a chef, so I guess I'm not qualified to say my dinner needs salt.

It's funny cause some chefs actually get legitimately offended if you add extra seasoning to their perfectly prepared dish since they know what's good and to hell with what you want.

[Arkanoid]

I'm failing to see this large number of imaginary f2p games that exist in NA or anywhere that are supposedly so much better than PSO2. Please post some so I can laugh.

[Gardios]

RO and Elsword are better than PSO2 imo, and from what I've heard Dragon Nest, Vindictus and a bunch of previously-P2P MMORPGs are pretty good as well. Surely there are many more that I'm not familiar with. I wouldn't be surprised if the new ones that are coming out (like Wildstar) are going F2P either.

Despite this, I don't think PSO2 would do bad, but well... SEGA.

[MetalDude]

No opinion on Old Republic (heard it was pretty mediocre), but GW2 is a one-time fee and F2P the rest of the way and the developers are incredibly responsive to feedback and seem to be doing a really good job with the game.

PSO2 has decent gameplay aspects. It's just held back by seriously poor content priority (dress up is simply not going to mesh with most of the western crowd, just how it is) and generally weak content (AQs and XQs are bad, MPAs are repetitive, new areas add very little to the game). Weapon upgrading is an abomination. Class balance is a joke.

[Kondibon]

I'm failing to see this large number of imaginary f2p games that exist in NA or anywhere that are supposedly so much better than PSO2. Please post some so I can laugh.
"Large number" is pushing it but I can name two off the top of my head that arguably do some of the things PSO2 utterly fails at off the top of my head. Mabinogi and Vindictus. I'm not going to go and say that these game's are amazingly perfect or anything, heck, I doubt most of the people here would even LOOK in mabi's direction. They definitely have their problems, but they handle progression much better than PSO2 does. I could go on about things I think they do and handle better than PSO2, I could go on about things that other games to better than Mabi and vindictus as well, but none of those other games are F2P which seems to be the criteria you're asking for here.


RO and Elsword are better than PSO2 imo, and from what I've heard Dragon Nest, Vindictus and a bunch of previously-P2P MMORPGs are pretty good as well. Surely there are many more that I'm not familiar with. I wouldn't be surprised if the new ones that are coming out (like Wildstar) are going F2P either.

Despite this, I don't think PSO2 would do bad, but well... SEGA.
I forgot about Dragon Nest. Both Dragon Nest and Vindictus, I feel, handle the action rpg aspect much better than PSO2 does, if only because they're smoother. I actually wanted to go on a spiel about how the reason PSO2's combat falls into a lot of "spam the same thing over and over" is due to a lack of an actual combo system like vindictus. But that can be argued both ways so it's pretty subjective.

[Gardios]

GW2 is B2P and pretty much the exception. I wouldn't use it as comparison.

[Arkanoid]

As a big fan of GW1 I'm going to have to disagree entirely on GW2. Dragon Nest is not exactly a success here, and I didn't enjoy it nearly as much as PSO2. Vindictus has the double whammy of being a korean MMO and a nexon production in NA.

Meh, bottom line is that while those games dont necessarily suck ass, I absolutely can't see any game that squarely makes PSO2 have no chance in NA, and certainly not several of them. But then again that was posted by a guy who hasn't made any sense in any of the other threads he posted in so whatever.

[Kondibon]

Vindictus has the double whammy of being a korean MMO and a nexon production in NA.
I don't see what either of those have to do with the actual game. ._.
There's nothing intrinsically wrong with a game being korean, it's just that Korea produces MMOs like NA produces summer blockbusters, There's a high amount of shit you need to wade through to find the good stuff. Sturgeon's Law and all that. And that's not to say it has it's flaws, nothings perfect, but vindictus is really well put together for a f2p dungeon crawler.



Meh, bottom line is that while those games dont necessarily suck ass, I absolutely can't see any game that squarely makes PSO2 have no chance in NA, and certainly not several of them. But then again that was posted by a guy who hasn't made any sense in any of the other threads he posted in so whatever.Oh, is that what you're saying? I guess I should have backread a bit more. I agree. I DON'T think PSO2 is going to crash and burn overnight. It might go down slowly if it doesn't see any major improvement in the long term but it's not just gonna flop as soon as it's localized. Assuming it ever is.

[UnLucky]

I thought those were examples of F2P games that haven't flopped.

[MetalDude]

It'd have a cult following, but this dripfeed would definitely not sustain the game for very long.

[Arkanoid]

Korean MMOs tend to be really grindy, without really being all that fun. I just don't even bother anymore. A lot of people hate the way Nexon handles games, so it does have an affect on the game, the same way people hated American PSU for being handled so poorly. I played Dungeon Fighter Online (a korean MMO, which unsurprisingly required way too much grinding), and it was brought to NA by Nexon and was always way beyond the Korean version of the game. They slowly brought in all the important balance changes to that game in slow motion in the same order that they were originally done in, and the game eventually just collapsed.

[Kondibon]

I thought those were examples of F2P games that haven't flopped.

Dragon nest and Mabinogi did in Nexon EU. ;; Otherwise, yeah, none of them flopped. Mabi and Vindictus are still kicking in NA. Pretty sure RO is eternal like WoW. etc...


Korean MMOs tend to be really grindy, without really being all that fun. I just don't even bother anymore. A lot of people hate the way Nexon handles games, so it does have an affect on the game, the same way people hated American PSU for being handled so poorly. I played Dungeon Fighter Online (a korean MMO, which unsurprisingly required way too much grinding), and it was brought to NA by Nexon and was always way beyond the Korean version of the game. They slowly brought in all the important balance changes to that game in slow motion in the same order that they were originally done in, and the game eventually just collapsed.That's what I meant, there are a lot of REALLY REALLY bad KR mmos, that just doesn't mean all of them are. I mean, Mabinogi is one of the few games I know of that actually managed to CATCH UP with the foreign servers. We're like only 3 or 4 small updates behind them, and they've show multiple times that they're willing to put certain things in early if it doesn't disrupt the rest of the game.

A lot of the hate Nexon gets is for their customer support more than anything, generally, they run the games well enough but if you have like... an actual problem tough luck. The problem is though, that kind of stuff is already happening in PSO2 and it's not even a foreign server yet, they drop the ball too much, and have a really hard time balancing things for whatever reason.

On the topic of being grindy, that's pretty subjective since it depends on what one wants out of the game. Mabinogi for instance is very much a game about progress, which, from the perspective of someone who likes to have a clear cut "This is as strong as you get" point and goes straight for that, Mabi can seem very grindy and outright daunting. But to someone like me who likes to get new toys and see what I can do with them at my own pace it doesn't feel grindy to me at all (except crafting, fuck that shit).

Likewise, I find PSO2 REALLY grindy because it doesn't feel like you make much progress at all after a while. I can't make at least decent progress while still playing at my own pace and doing what I want. I think there are ways Sega could fix that and I'd love them to, but for now I'm just going to chalk it up to the game not really being for me.

I will however mention how often we get threads that boil down to "what do I do from level x-y". I can't just say "whatever you want" like I can in GW2 or Mabinogi.

</rant>

[Gardios]

I personally didn't find Dungeon Fighter that grindy...


A lot of the hate Nexon gets is for their customer support more than anything, generally, they run the games well enough but if you have like... an actual problem tough luck. The problem is though, that kind of stuff is already happening in PSO2 and it's not even a foreign server yet, they drop the ball too much, and have a really hard time balancing things for whatever reason.

Slight difference, SEGA support is strict and limited whereas Nexon support is... well it exists, but it might as well not. :V

[Zyrusticae]

No opinion on Old Republic (heard it was pretty mediocre), but GW2 is a one-time fee and F2P the rest of the way and the developers are incredibly responsive to feedback and seem to be doing a really good job with the game.
Fuck no. Arenanet is AWFUL. So much of their 'new content' is temporary in an asinine and completely moronic attempt to create a sense of 'history' with the game (when all it really does is make their game incredibly scarce on new content for returning players). Furthermore, their group/dungeon content is a clusterfuck in pretty much all scenarios, and their ability to balance classes is an utter joke.

GW2 is NOT the game you go to for an example of strong post-launch support, that's for damn sure.

[Kondibon]

Fuck no. Arenanet is AWFUL. So much of their 'new content' is temporary in an asinine and completely moronic attempt to create a sense of 'history' with the game (when all it really does is make their game incredibly scarce on new content for returning players). Furthermore, their group/dungeon content is a clusterfuck in pretty much all scenarios, and their ability to balance classes is an utter joke.

GW2 is NOT the game you go to for an example of strong post-launch support, that's for damn sure.

Woah there, you might need to lower your standards a bit then. GW2 isn't perfect but Arenanet is balancing their game a hell of a lot better than Sega is. This sounds more like bitterness than any sort of well thought out argument.

[Enforcer MKV]

Woah there, you might need to lower your standards a bit then. GW2 isn't perfect but Arenanet is balancing their game a hell of a lot better than Sega is. This sounds more like bitterness than any sort of well thought out argument.

Toooo be fair...Saying that Arenanet balances better than Sega isn't really...saying much. Don't get me wrong, I haven't played GW2 to know from experience. But I'm confident it's better than PSO2's.

...I just think you'd be hard pressed to find someone who does a worse job of balancing than Sega. >_>

Oh, and has anyone else here played Rusty Hearts? I know it's not really all that similar to PSO2, but I think that game hasn't done all that bad (At least since the last time I played it).

I'd say Champions Online, but I'd rather not think about what switching over to being handled by PWE has done to it. *Shivers*

Vindictus isn't bad. Couldn't get into Elsword, though that doesn't really make it bad...let's see....TOR's a trainwreck of a F2P model, from everything I've heard...

[Kondibon]

Toooo be fair...Saying that Arenanet balances better than Sega isn't really...saying much.


That's a good point. XD I just feel that a lot of people are falling into this whole second best is first loser mentality and any game that doesn't meet or exceed their standards is terrible worthless crap, instead of... ya'know, ok.

I used to play champions and yeah I concur about what PWE did to it. P2P games switching to F2P never seems to go over well since it's something you have to plan from the start not just slap on to try and draw in some new players.

[moorebounce]

Well if they unlock the English translation for the English speaking Asians we'll no longer need to use the English patch. With the dollar doing better I don't mind the mark up for AC so much. I could live with that.

[Enforcer MKV]

That's a good point. XD I just feel that a lot of people are falling into this whole second best is first loser mentality and any game that doesn't meet or exceed their standards is terrible worthless crap, instead of... ya'know, ok.

I used to play champions and yeah I concur about what PWE did to it. P2P games switching to F2P never seems to go over well since it's something you have to plan from the start not just slap on to try and draw in some new players.

[SPOILER-BOX]It wasn't even the conversion that killed Champions. The conversion was honestly not done poorly. It wasn't "The greatest thing on God's green earth" or anything but it wasn't bad. The death thralls came after the switching to PWE. Lock box. After Lock box. After Lock box. My GOD. And the whole "Oh, this game now revolves around doing Alerts instead of us actually releasing new areas. Have a vehicle" *Huff* I used to love that game....[/SPOILER-BOX]

You're not just feeling it. People are. It's stupid.

[Cyclon]

Vindictus, I feel, handle the action rpg aspect much better than PSO2 does, if only because they're smoother. I actually wanted to go on a spiel about how the reason PSO2's combat falls into a lot of "spam the same thing over and over" is due to a lack of an actual combo system like vindictus. But that can be argued both ways so it's pretty subjective.
I'd love to see that. Edit: Actually I kind of agree on the combo part, but Vindictus is a terrible example of a good combo system imo./edit

Next is what I think of Vindictus. It's long, but i'd appreciate if anybody wishing to defend that game would read it and explain to me where I went wrong with this one.[SPOILER-BOX]Okay, Vindictus. Starting with what we agree on, yes, it handles progression better. Beyond the beginning and Arks road, PSO2 gives you very little to look forward to, so there's no contest here really. Vindictus isn't really great at it either though; the story is waaay too dialog heavy and mandatory for progression, so playing with friends is a chore(okay guys, mission cleared. Let's get into town and take 15 minutes to go through the entire city, skipping through dialog we don't care about, so we can keep going at all without taking the risk of missing freaking major gameplay elements, among other things.), and the mission progression, while solid, is nothing to write home about. It's not really much better than PSO2 on that aspect. The character growth is where I'd say it really prevails, with lot of stuff to look forward to constantly given to you, even though this game proves that tying abilities to random drops is among the stupidest things you could do.

So yeah, that was the positive part. Now for the rest. This game's gameplay is absolutely terrible. You can see they put a lot of efforts into making the game look cool, with great animations that are a league above PSO2. Problem is, it's all shiny and sparkly stuff, but the actual attack properties are completely uninteresting when they're not downright stupid. Most of the attacks in this game all do the exact same thing, as if they're just supposed to serve as an excuse to put as much stylish stuff on your character as possible. Classes tend to be really similar too, in their roles and in the way they play.
Beyond that, there's also the fact that there's actually very little content to play around with with a class. As long as you're a melee class(if you're not, well, you have three. Have fun)you do start with a fairly good amount of options, so that's nice, but be warned that you already got about half of your endgame options here, and the rest will be drip fed to you.

The combo system you speak of, I'm sorry to say, completely sucks in my opinion. It's really restrictive and a bit dumb, really. This is supposed to be a fast paced game, why should I take three seconds to do normal attacks before getting to the hit that actually hurts EVERY TIME? And no cancels here either, so get ready to be stuck into a four seconds long animation every time. There's so little input required on the player's part that it's just uninteresting, aka you watch the game play itself waaay too much. And when it's finally your turn, well you do it again. Because that's Vindictus. There is nothing to it, that's just what you do. Well, on melee classes anyway, but the rest is fairly irrelevant because from what I've seen, it's way too weak in comparison(I totally picked the mage to destroy everything with a scythe because my actual spells suck guys), also as I said above, it starts out very limited and takes a long time to get any better. I need to mention the mage's first healing ability, that I like to consider as a troll attempt, because rarely have I seen something so badly designed in a game.

Now, monsters. So I have seen some endgame content in videos and holy shout, huge dragon bosses and stuff, whoa. Well the longest I played on a character was about 15 hours and I saw none of that. I saw worms and goblins/gnolls of sorts, with pretty much nothing to them. On that note, the way the gnoll archers aim is hilarious. I can litteraly stay at point blank range of one and it will manage to miss me most of the time. From afar? They'll kill all their melee friends before significantly hurting you. Yes, there's enemy friendly fire. Hit and miss, but that's original I'd say.
So yeah, the basic cannon fodder sucks. Yes, worse than PSO2. It's that bad.
I did get to what I think was the first major boss, a polar bear. And it looked threatening, it acted threatening, but... was just not. Very few attacks, slow, and I fought it alone while giving it a good chance to show me what it could do. I spent 80% of the fight watching, and there wasn't much to talk about really. A bit like Rockbear, except worse, not a mini-boss and waaay too long to get to.
Did I mention that if you think PSO2 is bad difficulty wise, you're in for a ride with this game? I won't explain here, see for yourself if you want to.

Okay, so I know I'm a bit harsh here, but Vindictus was advertised to me as way better than PSO2. It's not like there's nothing interesting about it, you can see they put ambition into certain things, but I really felt like they had no idea how to design an actual game, sadly. PSO2, with all its flaws, has good core design(albeit thrown out of the window by balancing). This game doesn't have that(minus the balance part).

And, fairly important that I don't forget about that, even if you don't care much about the gameplay and just want to play with friends, besides the mandatory story elements that constantly get in your way, the game isn't even balanced around group play at all somehow. Cooperation is harsh when everything can be laggy as fudge(like everything dies in one hit three seconds before you actually see it die most of the time), and, best of all, you're individually ranked at the end of the mission depending on enemy kills and damage given, which decides of all your rewards including EXPERIENCE. Meaning? Well you have a weaker class? You're lagging more than others? You want to play with people and not against them? Though luck my friend, prepare to experience being screwed more and more as time goes on and the stronger gets even better while you lag behind. Brilliant concept in a game where about everything gets unlocked by your character's level, meaning once again, if you are playing with friends, you'll have to constantly be replaying missions for the weaker members to catch up, because they can't access the newer content yet. How incredibly fun for anyone involved.
I don't think I need to precise that true cooperation with strangers probably doesn't exist as a result. So I won't. I've said enough.[/SPOILER-BOX]
Tl;dr: I do not like Vindictus, and am not sure how anyone could consider it a good game.

[Kondibon]

I'd love to see that. Edit: Actually I kind of agree on the combo part, but Vindictus is a terrible example of a good combo system imo./edit

Next is what I think of Vindictus. It's long, but i'd appreciate if anybody wishing to defend that game would read it and explain to me where I went wrong with this one.[SPOILER-BOX]Okay, Vindictus. Starting with what we agree on, yes, it handles progression better. Beyond the beginning and Arks road, PSO2 gives you very little to look forward to, so there's no contest here really. Vindictus isn't really great at it either though; the story is waaay too dialog heavy and mandatory for progression, so playing with friends is a chore(okay guys, mission cleared. Let's get into town and take 15 minutes to go through the entire city, skipping through dialog we don't care about, so we can keep going at all without taking the risk of missing freaking major gameplay elements, among other things.), and the mission progression, while solid, is nothing to write home about. It's not really much better than PSO2 on that aspect. The character growth is where I'd say it really prevails, with lot of stuff to look forward to constantly given to you, even though this game proves that tying abilities to random drops is among the stupidest things you could do.

So yeah, that was the positive part. Now for the rest. This game's gameplay is absolutely terrible. You can see they put a lot of efforts into making the game look cool, with great animations that are a league above PSO2. Problem is, it's all shiny and sparkly stuff, but the actual attack properties are completely uninteresting when they're not downright stupid. Most of the attacks in this game all do the exact same thing, as if they're just supposed to serve as an excuse to put as much stylish stuff on your character as possible. Classes tend to be really similar too, in their roles and in the way they play.
Beyond that, there's also the fact that there's actually very little content to play around with with a class. As long as you're a melee class(if you're not, well, you have three. Have fun)you do start with a fairly good amount of options, so that's nice, but be warned that you already got about half of your endgame options here, and the rest will be drip fed to you.

The combo system you speak of, I'm sorry to say, completely sucks in my opinion. It's really restrictive and a bit dumb, really. This is supposed to be a fast paced game, why should I take three seconds to do normal attacks before getting to the hit that actually hurts EVERY TIME? And no cancels here either, so get ready to be stuck into a four seconds long animation every time. There's so little input required on the player's part that it's just uninteresting, aka you watch the game play itself waaay too much. And when it's finally your turn, well you do it again. Because that's Vindictus. There is nothing to it, that's just what you do. Well, on melee classes anyway, but the rest is fairly irrelevant because from what I've seen, it's way too weak in comparison(I totally picked the mage to destroy everything with a scythe because my actual spells suck guys), also as I said above, it starts out very limited and takes a long time to get any better. I need to mention the mage's first healing ability, that I like to consider as a troll attempt, because rarely have I seen something so badly designed in a game.

Now, monsters. So I have seen some endgame content in videos and holy shout, huge dragon bosses and stuff, whoa. Well the longest I played on a character was about 15 hours and I saw none of that. I saw worms and goblins/gnolls of sorts, with pretty much nothing to them. On that note, the way the gnoll archers aim is hilarious. I can litteraly stay at point blank range of one and it will manage to miss me most of the time. From afar? They'll kill all their melee friends before significantly hurting you. Yes, there's enemy friendly fire. Hit and miss, but that's original I'd say.
So yeah, the basic cannon fodder sucks. Yes, worse than PSO2. It's that bad.
I did get to what I think was the first major boss, a polar bear. And it looked threatening, it acted threatening, but... was just not. Very few attacks, slow, and I fought it alone while giving it a good chance to show me what it could do. I spent 80% of the fight watching, and there wasn't much to talk about really. A bit like Rockbear, except worse, not a mini-boss and waaay too long to get to.
Did I mention that if you think PSO2 is bad difficulty wise, you're in for a ride with this game? I won't explain here, see for yourself if you want to.

Okay, so I know I'm a bit harsh here, but Vindictus was advertised to me as way better than PSO2. It's not like there's nothing interesting about it, you can see they put ambition into certain things, but I really felt like they had no idea how to design an actual game, sadly. PSO2, with all its flaws, has good core design(albeit thrown out of the window by balancing). This game doesn't have that(minus the balance part).

And, fairly important that I don't forget about that, even if you don't care much about the gameplay and just want to play with friends, besides the mandatory story elements that constantly get in your way, the game isn't even balanced around group play at all somehow. Cooperation is harsh when everything can be laggy as fudge(like everything dies in one hit three seconds before you actually see it die most of the time), and, best of all, you're individually ranked at the end of the mission depending on enemy kills and damage given, which decides of all your rewards including EXPERIENCE. Meaning? Well you have a weaker class? You're lagging more than others? You want to play with people and not against them? Though luck my friend, prepare to experience being screwed more and more as time goes on and the stronger gets even better while you lag behind. Brilliant concept in a game where about everything gets unlocked by your character's level, meaning once again, if you are playing with friends, you'll have to constantly be replaying missions for the weaker members to catch up, because they can't access the newer content yet. How incredibly fun for anyone involved.
I don't think I need to precise that true cooperation with strangers probably doesn't exist as a result. So I won't. I've said enough.[/SPOILER-BOX]
Tl;dr: I do not like Vindictus, and am not sure how anyone could consider it a good game.

No, I actually agree with you, bringing up vindictus was probably a bad move. When it comes down to it though I really can't find anything that I think would redeem ANY of these games when it really comes down to it. There's a reason the free to play market is frowned upon. I think maybe this sort of thing is just what I've come to expect, and thus, why I'm not as vehemently hateful towards any of the games. Basically I'm biased. ._.

[Cyclon]

No, I actually agree with you, bringing up vindictus was probably a bad move. When it comes down to it though I really can't find anything that I think would redeem ANY of these games when it really comes down to it. There's a reason the free to play market is frowned upon. I think maybe this sort of thing is just what I've come to expect, and thus, why I'm not as vehemently hateful towards any of the games. Basically I'm biased. ._.You are probably right. Though there are some F2P games I legitimately enjoy playing, they all have glaring flaws that you need to ignore or not care about for them not to ruin the game for you. Still, to be fair, that would hold true for most video games.

I'm generally not hateful either though, and I don't think it's the way to be; because as I greatly demonstrated in my previous post, it's hard to give justice to the strong points if you go that way. I'd say it's just another bias really. So yeah, sorry about that. The "Vindictus is a better game" comment comes up a little too often around here for my taste.

[Kondibon]

Still, to be fair, that would hold true for most video games.


This is what I was trying to say the whole time but I'm REALLY REALLY bad at communicating my points. Sorry. D:

[Gardios]

Fuck no. Arenanet is AWFUL. So much of their 'new content' is temporary in an asinine and completely moronic attempt to create a sense of 'history' with the game (when all it really does is make their game incredibly scarce on new content for returning players). Furthermore, their group/dungeon content is a clusterfuck in pretty much all scenarios, and their ability to balance classes is an utter joke.

GW2 is NOT the game you go to for an example of strong post-launch support, that's for damn sure.

The first year was pretty much filled with temporary content because they prepared reoccuring things. Now that they're done, all things lately and future features we know about (the three new Fractals mainly) are permanent.

Living Story also started terrible, but it's great now imo.

[Zyrusticae]

That's a good point. XD I just feel that a lot of people are falling into this whole second best is first loser mentality and any game that doesn't meet or exceed their standards is terrible worthless crap, instead of... ya'know, ok.
I was actually pleasantly surprised by how much fun I was having in GW2, until I went into my first dungeon and found out they have no fucking clue how to do group content without the trinity. It doesn't help that the combat system is some kind of weird mishmash between an action game and a traditional tab-targeting MMORPG. And regarding their class balance - please. You know how long the game's PvP consisted ENTIRELY of invulnerable/immovable guardians and elementalists? It might be better now, but it took HOW LONG to get here? It's not like PSO2 has any completely useless classes (even techer has its uses, even if it can't stand on its own).

That and their inane post-launch support were enough to get me to hate Areanet for spoiling all the great potential of their game, especially given the insane pre-launch hype. Oh, and their writing sucks. It's actually worse than PSO2's. Seriously, it is! I didn't even know that was possible, but GW2 has some of the most flat characterization and some of the weakest attempts at drama I've ever seen. You can see the scripted character deaths from miles away, it's pathetic. It's about on par with Diablo 3's writing and that game was shit.

For me, right now, GW2 isn't even "second best", but pretty much "third last" among my MMO portfolio. I didn't even realize how much the trinity helped group content until I played that game, so I can at least give it credit for opening my eyes to that. Hah. Haha.

The first year was pretty much filled with temporary content because they prepared reoccuring things. Now that they're done, all things lately and future features we know about (the three new Fractals mainly) are permanent.

Living Story also started terrible, but it's great now imo.
That's nice, but I can't even bring myself to log back into the game anymore because it all feels so damn aimless. It's weird, because you'd think PSO2 would be even worse in that area, but no, GW2 somehow completely fails to kindle any interest in me logging back into the game. It's probably related to the fact that they have done nothing at all to the actual open-world content, despite that being the entire point of, y'know, so-called 'dynamic events' and shit like that.

Well, that and the game still crashes my PC at random. For some reason only GW2 and Starcraft 2 do this, and I can't get any help in fixing the problem (and I'm not the only one with these issues). Funny, because I can play literally all the other dozens of games on my PC with zero issues, it's just these two that give me shit. Thanks, Arenanet and Blizzard. Let's see if I buy any of your games in the future...

[Walkure]

No, I actually agree with you, bringing up vindictus was probably a bad move. When it comes down to it though I really can't find anything that I think would redeem ANY of these games when it really comes down to it. There's a reason the free to play market is frowned upon. I think maybe this sort of thing is just what I've come to expect, and thus, why I'm not as vehemently hateful towards any of the games. Basically I'm biased. ._.

Nah, when you get down to it, FtP is like the fast food of gaming - seemingly cheap and easy to get into, but actually addictive, unhealthy, and more expensive in the long run.

I put in like 40-50 of my own bucks for a game hosted for DFO because I liked playing that, and exploring game mechanics on it. I've also spent ~40-50 on AC items in PSO2, but I'm having a hard time justifying anything past that due to the gacha crappiness and not really seeing myself using premium that much. I've definitely spent more than either combined (or doubled) on FFXI subscriptions but looking back I have a lot more fun/novel experiences with FFXI than either. Maybe I should just cancel my music sub or something and replace that with a PtP. Or just play Monster Hunter, Dark Souls, and Minecraft more.

[Rosel]

Fuck no. Arenanet is AWFUL. So much of their 'new content' is temporary in an asinine and completely moronic attempt to create a sense of 'history' with the game (when all it really does is make their game incredibly scarce on new content for returning players). Furthermore, their group/dungeon content is a clusterfuck in pretty much all scenarios, and their ability to balance classes is an utter joke.

GW2 is NOT the game you go to for an example of strong post-launch support, that's for damn sure.

They're much better than SEGA (in handling an online game at least).

[Zyrusticae]

Horse shit.

Arenanet is currently bottom-of-the-barrel. They're improving, but not by much.

[Vintasticvin]

Because having a very salty, ugly, black hearted personality makes you popular and cool in this forums.

Fuck you all have fun bitching, moaning, and fucking each others assholes about a game we none japanese have NO FUCKING BUSINESS LOGGING INTO (ohhhhh I just used caps fucking multiply my coolness level fags) as I said fuck you all have fun crying how things will never go your way in the game. I'll be spending my game time elsewhere having fun while you punk ass faggots continue to cry about your shitty luck and argue with each other.

=/ Just kidding Ima stick around til we get booted from the servers and some of you guise really do make me sick with your ugliness I just wanna beat you down with a barbed baseball bat >_<

[Rosel]

I'm not sure who you're replying to, but nobody is hating on you for enjoying 'kusoge'. Just don't expect everyone else to.

[Enforcer MKV]

Because having a very salty, ugly, black hearted personality makes you popular and cool in this forums.

Fuck you all have fun bitching, moaning, and fucking each others assholes about a game we none japanese have NO FUCKING BUSINESS LOGGING INTO (ohhhhh I just used caps fucking multiply my coolness level fags) as I said fuck you all have fun crying how things will never go your way in the game. I'll be spending my game time elsewhere having fun while you punk ass faggots continue to cry about your shitty luck and argue with each other.

=/ Just kidding Ima stick around til we get booted from the servers and some of you guise really do make me sick with your ugliness I just wanna beat you down with a barbed baseball bat >_<

Woah, down Vinny. Dooooown. Pointless arguing might be the law of the land here now, but that doesn't mean you have to take part in it. Just sit down with a thing of popcorn and laugh. It really is the best medicine sometimes.

That reminds me, have to go out and buy more some time. Getting low.

[Zenobia]

Because having a very salty, ugly, black hearted personality makes you popular and cool in this forums.

Fuck you all have fun bitching, moaning, and fucking each others assholes about a game we none japanese have NO FUCKING BUSINESS LOGGING INTO (ohhhhh I just used caps fucking multiply my coolness level fags) as I said fuck you all have fun crying how things will never go your way in the game. I'll be spending my game time elsewhere having fun while you punk ass faggots continue to cry about your shitty luck and argue with each other.

=/ Just kidding Ima stick around til we get booted from the servers and some of you guise really do make me sick with your ugliness I just wanna beat you down with a barbed baseball bat >_<

Sweet lord Vin bby clam down being an ass to those who deserve it is my job so let me take care of that sense I know a lot of these ppl don't like ppl who don't sugar coat their words and only wanna hear what they want.

Either we agree because we know that person or he/she is your friend or we don't wanna feel like the odd man out cause we disagree sad little biscuits we have in here.

[Jungo Torii]

Because having a very salty, ugly, black hearted personality makes you popular and cool in this forums.

Fuck you all have fun bitching, moaning, and fucking each others assholes about a game we none japanese have NO FUCKING BUSINESS LOGGING INTO (ohhhhh I just used caps fucking multiply my coolness level fags) as I said fuck you all have fun crying how things will never go your way in the game. I'll be spending my game time elsewhere having fun while you punk ass faggots continue to cry about your shitty luck and argue with each other.

=/ Just kidding Ima stick around til we get booted from the servers and some of you guise really do make me sick with your ugliness I just wanna beat you down with a barbed baseball bat >_<

http://puu.sh/2nkYP

I know we all get sick of the arguments, and they're probably ones that have been around forever with no new points or answers. However, from where I see it, the problem isn't the arguments themselves but the lack of civility from certain members on this forum. This is most certainly NOT (insert what you did here I guess) the way to stop people from arguing about this stuff. And you're not going to stop anybody, really.

So maybe take Enforcer's advice. It's better to just ignore meaningless conflicts.

[pkemr4]

Shin megami tensi: imagine online does what pso2 does but much better (excpet they dont have concerts or my rooms)
spent 3 years playing it (and so much money spent)

[Vintasticvin]

Woah, down Vinny. Dooooown. Pointless arguing might be the law of the land here now, but that doesn't mean you have to take part in it. Just sit down with a thing of popcorn and laugh. It really is the best medicine sometimes.

That reminds me, have to go out and buy more some time. Getting low.
Nature is my medicine and this chilly Fall breeze felt great.



Sweet lord Vin bby clam down being an ass to those who deserve it is my job so let me take care of that sense I know a lot of these ppl don't like ppl who don't sugar coat their words and only wanna hear what they want.

Either we agree because we know that person or he/she is your friend or we don't wanna feel like the odd man out cause we disagree sad little biscuits we have in here.
D: I don't sugar coat myself and you can't be hogging all the text based ass kicking.




I know we all get sick of the arguments, and they're probably ones that have been around forever with no new points or answers. However, from where I see it, the problem isn't the arguments themselves but the lack of civility from certain members on this forum. This is most certainly NOT (insert what you did here I guess) the way to stop people from arguing about this stuff. And you're not going to stop anybody, really.

So maybe take Enforcer's advice. It's better to just ignore meaningless conflicts.
My outburst was a bit of spoof on the community lol And I gave up on being peace keeper and will have no problem giving a swift kick to their butts even if its just for fun like that sick villain who gets a kick out of kicking puppies and kittens :D

[Zenobia]

D: I don't sugar coat myself and you can't be hogging all the text based ass kicking.


^I find it funny that I cannot say anything against this lol. Do yer thing Vin.

[Vintasticvin]

^I find it funny that I cannot say anything against this lol. Do yer thing Vin.

<3 Yes, beware the quiet nice ones xD

[Meta77]

Seems......I missed a lot.

[Enforcer MKV]

<3 Yes, beware the quiet nice ones xD

*Remembers the big deal you made about Connie and I a few months back*

Where is this 'quiet one' you're referring to?

ಠ_ಠ

[Vintasticvin]

*Remembers the big deal you made about Connie and I a few months back*

Where is this 'quiet one' you're referring to?

ಠ_ಠ

-_- Okay so I'm not exactly quiet and I caused a ruckus bout you Connie? o.O

[Windigorider]

So, a bit late to the topic but.. does that mean PSO2 just got infinitie'd?

[Shadowth117]

So, a bit late to the topic but.. does that mean PSO2 just got infinitie'd?

PS Nova is a thing so probably.

[Sp-24]

No, there's just zero chance of Sega bothering with it. English version exists, and a stand-alone company that publishes MMOs worldwide owns the rights to provide the PSO2 service in China (or wherever, I'm not sure).

The possibilities are that either PSO2 doesn't come out outside of Asia at all, or is published worldwide by either Asiasoft or another similar company.

Nova, however, may be Infinity 2 at this point.

[Enforcer MKV]

-_- Okay so I'm not exactly quiet and I caused a ruckus bout you Connie? o.O

Eh, don't worry about it it's old news and not something that needs to be brought up anymore. *shrugs*

But yeah, you're definitely not quiet. :lol: