5% Grinding & Affix boost | 25th Sept - 2nd Oct

[Meji]

Good news folks!

We'll be given a 5% Affix and Grinding boost between the 25th of Sept until the 2nd of Oct.
This would be a great time for everyone to get some weapon and unit fodders ready for the upcoming Super Hard mode.

Source:
http://pso2.jp/players/news/?id=2261

[supersonix9]

that's pretty kool

[SisterPrincess]

Is there a way to make affix at 96%-99% success rate during this week?

[Meji]

Some JPs on 2ch also speculate we'll be given another "Grind/Affix AC Scratch" this week. Hoping for it, myself.

[o0Kais0o]

Might have to get some ac then... I have stuff I need to grind.

[Emp]

Guess Ill buy up a Sattelite Riser this week and grind it up. Are grind skips 100% success?

[Meji]

Guess Ill buy up a Sattelite Riser this week and grind it up. Are grind skips 100% success?The +0 -> +7 are 100% secure.

[pkemr4]

5%.....?

[Zyrusticae]

+5% to 25% is 30%, which is still a shit chance of success.

But at least affixing to make fodder will be slightly less shit for a little bit.

[Z-0]

Can't see much use out of 5% at all.

Maybe if it was 10% like last time...

[gigawuts]

Can't see much use out of 5% at all.

Maybe if it was 10% like last time...

I don't see much use of any % at all honestly. It's just a bandaid to distract from how it normally behaves ;/

[Shirai]

5%, at least its better than no percentage at all, lol.
or is it?

[gigawuts]

5%, at least its better than no percentage at all, lol.
or is it?

exactly

we always seem to be on the same wavelength

[jooozek]

5% is pretty much a bait to sink meseta and grinders

[EvilMag]

Can't wait to have 3 95%s fail on me!

[NoiseHERO]

if it's not 100%

it's actually just 25% chance of success no matter what the rate is.

[Zenobia]

Not bad thx Meiji!

[jcart953]

Personally don't mind the boost I just hope, they don't pull some slick stuff like they did when we had the 10% grind boost week and right afterwards they went and nerfed the defense requirements of units.

[gigawuts]

Super Hard is right around the corner.

If you think these aren't strategically planned, well, lol.

[Zenobia]

Has anyone learned their lesson from the time they threw in the S atk, Tech atk, and R atk boost items and then never put them back in?

Cause I think not....

Then again I could be stretching that a bit to far....

[Macman]

GODDAMNIT I just blew a bunch of money affixing a Dista Unit a few days ago!

[Crysteon]

As if +5% did anything. RNG is still RNG and you will still fail 90%-95%s

[Jay6]

GODDAMNIT I just blew a bunch of money affixing a Dista Unit a few days ago!

... i blew off 500+ grinders on grinding that 10* bow to +10. Not only that, but ended up using my remaining 10% grind success, and +2 risk reductions (all when it was at +9). I can be a bit mad too. (Not using my 100% grind success item. Just no.)

[strikerhunter]

Only going to say LOL at the small boost because the RNG God was being nice to me today while I was affixing stuffs under 50%. Got everything I need with just 1 try.

5% ain't shit unless it's 10% where to difference is much much much much more noticeable.

Watch 5% and 10% affix boosters go up in price for the week.

[supersonix9]

bitch more, people

[.Jack]

Nice, time to get a new tech set. 105 or 110 attack this time :D

[Rexob]

5% is 5% more than before...granted Dudu & Monica will still hate on us, but it's better than nothing...I like how people are never satisfied. If we got 10% people would want 20% etc...it's never enough :-P

[Railkune]

Well Monica loves me, and with this she'll just love me more.

[Zyrusticae]

5% is 5% more than before...granted Dudu & Monica will still hate on us, but it's better than nothing...I like how people are never satisfied. If we got 10% people would want 20% etc...it's never enough :-P
You're right, it's not enough until we have a 100% boost day.

Everyone with 8-slot affixed units and weapons, GO!

[UnLucky]

5% doesn't help where it counts, only for super low chance trash that you wouldn't use boosters for and aren't expecting to succeed anyway.

10% actually makes harder affixes guaranteed with a +30% booster. Like normally without an event, those boosters are not generally worth it over a +20% because either it can still fail, or it pushes it up to 110% where that extra boost is wasted.

So pretty much yeah, I'm looking forward to all the 95% failure screenshots that will undoubtedly get posted.

[Walkure]

Hey, at least it's useful for unlocking potentials!

[MetalDude]

The 5% is negligible because you're still playing with shit RNG. No one wants to run that risk of 95% failing. 10% felt perfect and I wish that was the norm if we're going to stick with this dumb system.

[Railkune]

The 5% is negligible because you're still playing with shit RNG. No one wants to run that risk of 95% failing. 10% felt perfect and I wish that was the norm if we're going to stick with this dumb system.

Well, you do have a point. Honestly they could have given us that other 5% to make it at least sound appealing.

[Inazuma]

No one has mentioned that grind and affix related items will increase in price more than 5%, which ends up making the 5% boost a bad thing overall.

[strikerhunter]

No one has mentioned that grind and affix related items will increase it price more than 5%, which ends up making the 5% boost a bad thing overall.

I did already. Read through the posts and you'll find that I already posted it:



Watch 5% and 10% affix boosters go up in price for the week.

[Walkure]

Even if Grind Protect (+1) goes up substantially, the average cost for grinding a 10* seems decrease more from a free +5% to grind rates. So, like I said, great for potentials even if it affects absolutely nothing else!

[jcart953]

I highly doubt 10% affix goes up that high seeing as though soon as you +10 something more will come out. Not like people wount be grinding weapons so I wouldn't worry about it to much.

[Walkure]

The problem is that +10% affixes won't let people get the desired 100% everything with proper fodder and soul added on. 95% chance for three abilities will have a 14.3% chance of having at least one roll fail, a pretty steep increase from 0%.

[Rexob]

The problem is that +10% affixes won't let people get the desired 100% everything with proper fodder and soul added on. 95% chance for three abilities will have a 14.3% chance of having at least one roll fail, a pretty steep increase from 0%.

I <3 your math - makes the Azn in my smile :-D

[jcart953]

The problem is that +10% affixes won't let people get the desired 100% everything with proper fodder and soul added on. 95% chance for three abilities will have a 14.3% chance of having at least one roll fail, a pretty steep increase from 0%.

Even more of a reason not to worry about price increases then :p.

[xxmadplayerxx]

5%? Not bad, now just imagine using a 5% Grind Success item, every grind. Now think about it. Anything is better than nothing, although 10% would of been much more appropriate. But Im happy with 5%,

[xxmadplayerxx]

Even more of a reason not to worry about price increases then :p.

Prices will rise just watch :D

[Shinamori]

10% Affix Boosters are already 94k. They were 74k-80K.

[UnLucky]

Well 5%s would have to like double in price, or reach the old 10% price for the event to be a bad thing.

If you've got a shop, just churn out FUN scratch and drop those prices down again!

[locafoca]

I'm not quite sure what everyone's bitching about...

Using Walkure's spreadsheets, it seems that even if every single grind boost and protect was off the market or with ten bazillion meseta, grinding by brute force would still be (on average) around 250k cheaper than if there was no boost event at all and +1s were at 47.5k.

Of course, prices for fodder materials are going to skyrocket though, so maybe the affix boost doesn't benefit everyone quite as much...

[MetalDude]

The 5% grind boost is... okay. Not going to have a major market effect and generally speaking it will be slightly easier to grind. The affix boost is aggravating because we've all sung the same ol' song about hugely unreliable chances.

[Meji]

Nice, time to get a new tech set. 105 or 110 attack this time :DWhy not 5-slot with Mutation to get it even higher? 115 should do the trick~! ^^

And I can't see why people are complaining about this at all. Ya'll mad greedy people.


10% Affix Boosters are already 94k. They were 74k-80K.I believe they'll drop when the event starts, just like last time. People will grind weapons, which will lead to a stable renewal of all 10% Affix Booster on the market.

[MetalDude]

Mostly just sick of TACO money wasting away on shitty grind/affix streaks and would rather see the problems fixed or 10% Grind/Affix come back permanently because it actually felt reasonable. 5% just feels insignificant towards grinding and pretty much non-existent towards affixing.

[MimiChan]

Trust me, 5% is really really noticeable!

I just +10 all of these in less than 400k for all of them:

Elder Rifle
Elder Knuckles
Hitogata Koshiki
Brute Gift
Fossil Tricks
Ruin Mirage

No boost/protect whatsoever.

[Saffran]

Well, people have been getting a lot of grinders through the EX runs all week, so I guess some incentive was needed, but seriously, 5% on affix is not a game changer. On the grinding, I guess it's nice to know you may fail a bit less getting to +8, but it's entirely wasted on the affixes.
Ah well.

[MetalDude]

Well, I got Roses unlocked and back to +10 in around 750k so something is doing work in the background.

[Zenobia]

Nah its all rng.

[MetalDude]

I'll happily take these better streaks over the shit I was dealing with last week, at least. If not the 5% then this streak is hella less terrible at the moment.

[TaigaUC]

Mostly just sick of TACO money wasting away on shitty grind/affix streaks and would rather see the problems fixed or 10% Grind/Affix come back permanently because it actually felt reasonable. 5% just feels insignificant towards grinding and pretty much non-existent towards affixing.

This.


Trust me, 5% is really really noticeable!


Only if you are insanely lucky.
I tried affixing units and had some rotten luck. 80% 80% failing, etc.

I recall 10% being great for grinding weapons, so maybe it's a bit better for weapons.

[MimiChan]

I +10 5 additional 10* weps O3O

Now I can use this surplus of 10% affix tix for affixing OwO

[gigawuts]

And I can't see why people are complaining about this at all. Ya'll mad greedy people.

You know exactly why, don't play coy. Most of us think the system itself is crap, there is no fun in playing Dice Rolling: The Game so they hand out a pittance instead of actually retooling the system at all.

I'm going to laugh when the weapon customization system we're supposedly getting was actually the element synthesizing change, and they gave it out early.

This'd be like giving a starving person food wrappers and then going "UGH NOTHING MAKES YOU HAPPY."

[.Jack]

Why not 5-slot with Mutation to get it even higher? 115 should do the trick~! ^^

And I can't see why people are complaining about this at all. Ya'll mad greedy people.

I believe they'll drop when the event starts, just like last time. People will grind weapons, which will lead to a stable renewal of all 10% Affix Booster on the market.

I'd have to go with Range for that so that's not happening, lol. Elder, techIV, abilityIII, and tech boost shouldn't be too hard methinks.

[Rexob]

I'm not a fan of the system, but it beats the hell out of the PSU system...I'll take whatever they give, because anything is better than nothing, and Phantasy Star games have always been luck of the draw grind-fests, anyone thinking or hoping otherwise is delusional...

[Meji]

I'd have to go with Range for that so that's not happening, lol. Elder, techIV, abilityIII, and tech boost shouldn't be too hard methinks.
You're the same as me then! PP > HP forever.
It's a shame Elder can't come infected, really!

[gigawuts]

I'm not a fan of the system, but it beats the hell out of the PSU system...I'll take whatever they give, because anything is better than nothing, and Phantasy Star games have always been luck of the draw grind-fests, anyone thinking or hoping otherwise is delusional...

Actually no weapon improvement system is better than this. Everything is relative. Finding a weapon would be the whole job. Everything would be good right out of the box.

Rexob, you are accidentally on to something.

But really now, calling PSO1 a luck of the draw grind fest next to this is like calling an AIG CEO's job as underpaying as a chinese sweatshop worker's. They're used to buying five mansions a year, and now they have to get by with four? That's like being unable to afford even rice some weeks.

[Walkure]

But finding the weapon is the hard part.

[gigawuts]

The ability to buy them on the market says otherwise.

[Rexob]

Actually no weapon improvement system is better than this. Everything is relative. Finding a weapon would be the whole job. Everything would be good right out of the box.

Rexob, you are accidentally on to something.

But really now, calling PSO1 a luck of the draw grind fest next to this is like calling an AIG CEO's job as underpaying as a chinese sweatshop worker's. They're used to buying five mansions a year, and now they have to get by with four? That's like being unable to afford even rice some weeks.

It is relative, but having played PSO since the DC, I never have any expectations of "good systems" either...

[gigawuts]

Yeah, DC PSO1 was awful from everything I've read about it. I'd be saying the same things about v1 if I played it back then.

But after they demonstrated they know how to make more fun systems with GC, Blue Burst, PSZ, PSP2i, etc. this system is just insulting.

[Ce'Nedra]

Insulting might be a understatement =/

I think I will try to force my 11* unit set to 3 slots now and finish affixing them providing I got enough money to do so. 5% is better then nothing even if it will most likely do nothing like usual.

[Rexob]

Insulting might be a understatement =/

I think I will try to force my 11* unit set to 3 slots now and finish affixing them providing I got enough money to do so. 5% is better then nothing even if it will most likely do nothing like usual.

Good luck!

[Walkure]

The ability to buy them on the market says otherwise.Depends on the weapon. Most pyroxenables will be easier either way to acquire than grind, but non-pyroxenes generally will cost more to get in the first place.

For example, on HU weapons and Ship10 prices:
Flamme Brand is 13m
Weisse Butte is 2m, Diabolic Gauntlet is 23m
Gekitsnata is a blank check (every one in shops is L3 potential'd already because it's a minor cost in the face of the total).

[martinmeegan]

Yeah, DC PSO1 was awful from everything I've read about it. I'd be saying the same things about v1 if I played it back then.

But after they demonstrated they know how to make more fun systems with GC, Blue Burst, PSZ, PSP2i, etc. this system is just insulting.

I do understand why you'd be a tad grumpy about the current system but having been a victim, sorry, veteran of DC PSO and PSU the current system is a cake walk compared to those especially PSU which had the suckiest system ever. I'm not saying it can't be improved, lordy no, but in comparison to the heart break I had when breaking Rutsu's at 9 PSO2 is nothing.

[Rexob]

I do understand why you'd be a tad grumpy about the current system but having been a victim, sorry, veteran of DC PSO and PSU the current system is a cake walk compared to those especially PSU which had the suckiest system ever. I'm not saying it can't be improved, lordy no, but in comparison to the heart break I had when breaking Rutsu's at 9 PSO2 is nothing.

This is exactly how I feel lol...I'm not enamored with the current system, but after PSU...this is sooooooooo easy.

[gigawuts]

I do understand why you'd be a tad grumpy about the current system but having been a victim, sorry, veteran of DC PSO and PSU the current system is a cake walk compared to those especially PSU which had the suckiest system ever. I'm not saying it can't be improved, lordy no, but in comparison to the heart break I had when breaking Rutsu's at 9 PSO2 is nothing.

I fail to feel anything for anyone who knew a risk, took it, and was surprised by the outcome.

[Rexob]

I fail to feel anything for anyone who knew a risk, took it, and was surprised by the outcome.

That's about the same sentiment as having no feelings for people complaining about a system they continue to take part in and know the risks...which is what most of this entire thread is now. None of us were surprised playing PSU either...we knew the risk, and it sucked tremendously compared to the system now.

[gigawuts]

That's about the same sentiment as having no feelings for people complaining about a system they continue to take part in and know the risks...which is what most of this entire thread is now. None of us were surprised playing PSU either...we knew the risk, and it sucked tremendously compared to the system now.

You misunderstand; I'm not attacking the failures, I'm attacking the system. You saying "at least it's not psu" is a worthless thing to say. I could name a million things that are worse than this game's weapon improvement system. Let's pull a Godwin right off the bat: The holocaust.

That doesn't make the system good. It just makes something else worse. I'm not any less wet just because I'm swimming in a smaller pool.

The system is bad and throwing out pittances like these is an insult to anyone that wants it actually improved, and sega apologists don't do anything but say "at least it's not psu!" Chance based weapon improvement systems are all terrible.


10:16 AM

I understand that you feel the need to impress upon people the idea that you are not part of the general forum discussions bickering, but your continued spam is itself part of the general forum bickering, except far more disingenuous and far less clever. Please stop.

[Rexob]

You misunderstand; I'm not attacking the failures, I'm attacking the system. You saying "at least it's not psu" is a worthless thing to say. I could name a million things that are worse than this game's weapon improvement system. Let's pull a Godwin right off the bat: The holocaust.

That doesn't make the system good. It just makes something else worse. I'm not any less wet just because I'm swimming in a smaller pool.

The system is bad and throwing out pittances like these is an insult to anyone that wants it actually improved, and sega apologists don't do anything but say "at least it's not psu!" Chance based weapon improvement systems are all terrible.



I understand that you feel the need to impress upon people the idea that you are not part of the general forum discussions bickering, but your continued spam is itself part of the general forum bickering, except far more disingenuous and far less clever. Please stop.

I understand what you're saying now, but all the whining in the world isn't going to change it, so why continue to do so? Sega and most companies only make changes when 1 and only 1 thing is impacted - MONEY. Since they recently celebrated a record number of users, I highly doubt a boycott is likely to occur any time soon...bottom line is, players have to suck it up or quit.

Someone should create a general "Whining - what I hate about PSO most" thread so we could at least consolidate all of the whining into a singular entity that generally derails numerous seemingly productive threads.

[Walkure]

Out of curiosity, how many people are more annoyed by the grinding/affixing process being interrupted by grabbing more items/unnecessary confirmation windows more than actual costs incurred?


Yes, I selected that weapon that is locked. And I want to grind/potential/add abilities to it. Stop asking me every time!
Select support/boost items from storage. Have an option to use grinders from storage.
On running out of an item, streamline it so that I can just buy the cheapest from a player shop and continue pissing money

[Rexob]

Out of curiosity, how many people are more annoyed by the grinding/affixing process being interrupted by grabbing more items/unnecessary confirmation windows more than actual costs incurred?


Yes, I selected that weapon that is locked. And I want to grind/potential/add abilities to it. Stop asking me every time!
Select support/boost items from storage. Have an option to use grinders from storage.
On running out of an item, streamline it so that I can just buy the cheapest from a player shop and continue pissing money


I would really like to be able to use Grinders from my stash. I like the "Locked" features, they let me verify and confirm before I do something potentially hazardous - sometimes I take a risk knowing the odds are awful, such as I recently affixed Fang Soul & Stigma with 50% and 30% on a Vardha Rear Unit just for kicks.

The last point would be fantastic, but I doubt Sega could / would implement it.

[gigawuts]

I understand what you're saying now, but all the whining in the world isn't going to change it, so why continue to do so? Sega and most companies only make changes when 1 and only 1 thing is impacted - MONEY. Since they recently celebrated a record number of users, I highly doubt a boycott is likely to occur any time soon...bottom line is, players have to suck it up or quit.

Someone should create a general "Whining - what I hate about PSO most" thread so we could at least consolidate all of the whining into a singular entity that generally derails numerous seemingly productive threads.

I post it because I want to post it.

[Rexob]

I post it because I want to post it.

I can agree with that sentiment, I do the same even when others protest :-D

[Walkure]

Productivity of the thread is usually done well before the derailing starts.

I'm not sure how streamlining the grinding/affixing interface to speed up the process significantly wouldn't be in Sega's best interest. It encourages more consumption with little/no downside.

[martinmeegan]

I didn't say I was surprised. I'm just saying that it sucked more than PSO2 does because in this game you know that at some point your wep will go to 10. It may cost an arm and a leg to get there but it will get there.

My personal feeling is that the system should still run on RNG but instead of finding grinders to take to Dudu/Monica to work their, ahem, "magic" why can't we find grinders that already have a guaranteed success on them as in +7, +3, +10 etc with the higher grinds being harder to find? It would certainly be a damn sight less annoying than pissing all your meseta up the wall.

[Rexob]

Productivity of the thread is usually done well before the derailing starts.

I'm not sure how streamlining the grinding/affixing interface to speed up the process significantly wouldn't be in Sega's best interest. It encourages more consumption with little/no downside.

Sega doesn't always recognize it's "best interest"...that and I have very little confidence in their programmers after the recent patch that deleted system files outside of its own parameters...

[gigawuts]

I didn't say I was surprised. I'm just saying that it sucked more the PSO2 because in this game you know that at some point your wep will go to 10. It may cost an arm and a leg to get there but it will get there.

you don't know, actually

there is no guarantee you will ever achieve +10

my 17 consecutive failed grind protected 9->10 attempts & 2 more failed unprotected 9->10 attempts steam knuckles can attest to that (one attempt even had a 30% booster :wacko: )

[Meji]

Trying to tell Gigs this system isn't bullshit is just like throwing crispy wood in a fire. That guy is a PSO2 politician, striving for a better tomorrow while letting off some steam in the process.

Anyways, I really wouldn't mind if you guys please kept talking on about the horrible grinding/affixing system in the Rants (http://www.pso-world.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=21) section. I'm getting so tired seeing the same conversation flow over and over again in pretty much every thread, since this wasn't even the topic of the thread.

[Rexob]

Trying to tell Gigs this system isn't bullshit is just like throwing crispy wood in a fire. That guy is a PSO2 politician, striving for a better tomorrow while letting off some steam in the process.

Anyways, I really wouldn't mind if you guys please kept talking on about the horrible grinding/affixing system in the Rants (http://www.pso-world.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=21) section. I'm getting so tired seeing the same conversation flow over and over again in pretty much every thread, since this wasn't even the topic of the thread.

Lol - PSO2 politician - I hope he takes it to the Sega forums, b/c they're not reading about it here :-P


you don't know, actually

there is no guarantee you will ever achieve +10

my 17 consecutive failed grind protected 9->10 attempts & 2 more failed unprotected 9->10 attempts steam knuckles can attest to that (one attempt even had a 30% booster :wacko: )

I still have my Grind + 100% item - so, yes I do know

AND

Statistically - you do know, but there is a wide standard deviation and probability

[jooozek]

gotta admit, using this system is like wiping your butt with sandpaper, yes, you can do it but look at all that blood :disapprove:

[gigawuts]

Trying to tell Gigs this system isn't bullshit is just like throwing crispy wood in a fire. That guy is a PSO2 politician, striving for a better tomorrow while letting off some steam in the process.

Please, please. You're much too kind.


Anyways, I really wouldn't mind if you guys please kept talking on about the horrible grinding/affixing system in the Rants (http://www.pso-world.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=21) section. I'm getting so tired seeing the same conversation flow over and over again in pretty much every thread, since this wasn't even the topic of the thread.

Well, it was and wasn't.

I mean what did you expect? They're giving a 5% bonus to a shitty system. Some people have the capital to take streaks in stride and turn a profit by meeting the average. They won't benefit much more from 5%. Others don't. They, also, won't benefit from 5%. The fact that others don't is a failing of the system, and 5% won't change the fact that infinite failures are always a possibility.

[Walkure]

I mean what did you expect? They're giving a 5% bonus to a shitty system. Some people have the capital to take streaks in stride and turn a profit by meeting the average. They won't benefit much more from 5%. If they're grinding in a large enough scale that the calculated average closely approximates their per unit grinding costs, they'll save about 40% of the money they'd normally spent on grinding a bunch of 10*s. That's pretty much the best applicable situation for an average weapon cost, and you just handwaved it as no big deal.

Giga, please.


Others don't. They, also, won't benefit from 5%. The fact that others don't is a failing of the system, and 5% won't change the fact that infinite failures are always a possibility.Much more reasonable argument; someone with only a 2mil budget still has a reasonably high chance of running out of money before they hit +10, even if their odds go up a fair bit.

[gigawuts]

If they're grinding in a large enough scale that the calculated average closely approximates their per unit grinding costs, they'll save about 40% of the money they'd normally spent on grinding a bunch of 10*s. That's pretty much the best applicable situation for an average weapon cost, and you just handwaved it as no big deal.

Giga, please.You've missed my point here...


Much more reasonable argument; someone with only a 2mil budget still has a reasonably high chance of running out of money before they hit +10, even if their odds go up a fair bit.

...and found it here - but that also falls short of the point that the fact that infinite failure is even possible is terrible design.

"Average" is bullshit. The "average" life expectancy of a person in the first world doesn't matter if you get leukemia at age 6 and your parents are poor. Tough luck, try being luckier next life.

[Rexob]

... the fact that infinite failure is even possible is terrible design.

"Average" is bullshit. The "average" life expectancy of a person in the first world doesn't matter if you get leukemia at age 6 and your parents are poor. Tough luck, try being luckier next life.

I've grinded more 10* than I'd like to count, and have yet to encounter this "infinite failure" you refer to. Second, the real world example is incredibly ridiculous considering we are discussing a video game.

[martinmeegan]

"Average" is bullshit. The "average" life expectancy of a person in the first world doesn't matter if you get leukemia at age 6 and your parents are poor. Tough luck, try being luckier next life.

Yay for the NHS!

Mate, that statement is possibly a little too melodramatic when referring to PSO2's grinding/affixing system. I do understand your point, I really do, but come on.............

[strikerhunter]

I've grinded more 10* than I'd like to count, and have yet to encounter this "infinite failure" you refer to. Second, the real world example is incredibly ridiculous considering we are discussing a video game.

Then you just so happened to be luckier than most.

[gigawuts]

Yay for the NHS!

Mate, that statement is possibly a little too melodramatic when referring to PSO2's grinding/affixing system. I do understand your point, I really do, but come on.............

Hyperbole is a hobby of mine, and murrica has no NHS that'll cover that :)

[Rexob]

Hyperbole is a hobby of mine, and murrica has no NHS that'll cover that :)

We all have our hobbies :-D

[Walkure]

You do realize the Law of Large Numbers, and the common phrase "statistics mean nothing to the individual" are both useful concepts, and, despite having different conclusions, are neither contradictory nor mutually exclusive because they cover entirely different situations?

[Rexob]

You do realize the Law of Large Numbers, and the common phrase "statistics mean nothing to the individual" are both useful concepts, and, despite having different conclusions, are neither contradictory nor mutually exclusive because they cover entirely different situations?

Some people refuse to comprehend and/or accept the logic behind math.

[gigawuts]

You do realize the Law of Large Numbers, and the common phrase "statistics mean nothing to the individual" are both useful concepts, and, despite having different conclusions, are neither contradictory nor mutually exclusive because they cover entirely different situations?

Yes, I'm well aware of statistics and its concepts. I went to highschool too. That does not change the fact that people defend it based on the average, when the issue is not the average at all. Or, rather, it is, but only in that failing to meet the average is much too costly for your typical player.

[Rexob]

Yes, I'm well aware of statistics and its concepts. I went to highschool too. That does not change the fact that people defend it based on the average, when the issue is not the average at all. Or, rather, it is, but only in that failing to meet the average is much too costly for your typical player.

I can agree with the latter part of this. However, when looking at how PSO is designed - it's fair to say the game in general does NOT in any way favor or promote casual, "average" gameplay.

[gigawuts]

That's just it, though. It does. They even say so. This is why most quests are designed to be completed in 20 minutes, and why the gameplay is so forgiving.

This game, superficially, is ALL ABOUT casual play.

Which is what makes dudu so sinister, or more accurately "a good business model." They know most players can't afford failures, and they use the fear of failure as a motivator to use boosters, protectors, etc. Most people won't do the number crunching. Some of us are here just for that, yeah, but most? No, definitely not. Most are your typical b20 pugger. They're the ones that make up the bulk of the playerbase.

So if you scare them into always using protects so they don't go from 9 to 1 again that's just one more valuable AC scratch item someone has sold.

Which is good for Sega, but not for us.

It's Sega's prerogative to make money. But, then, it's our prerogative to save money, isn't it? Reacting negatively to these practices is just as par for the course as implementing them in the first place.

[Walkure]

Yeah, it's a system of obfuscated risk and an enticing reward, that provides the anxiety for new/free players to put in money in order to try "getting ahead".

There's a good reason that it exists, in some form, in most, if not all, free to play games with RPG/MMO elements. They make a lot more money by keeping such a system, and making sure it isn't easily predictable and/or gamed. So it's not a bad reaction to work against it by despising it and avoiding it when possible.

It's also not a bad reaction to work against it by clarifying it as much as possible.

[Rexob]

The gameplay is easy, forgiving, and quick. However, look at the ridiculous drop rates, there is nothing casual about those...

Edit: The game is easily accessible, but to have the top gear requires playing at a top level which is obvious given the ridiculous drop rates and the grinding / affixing probabilities.

[jooozek]

ok this boost is really cute
[SPOILER-BOX]2013-09-25T19:44:12 4157 [IntensifyAttribute] 12054508 ジョセフィン Rouge Coffin attr:Ice(50)
2013-09-25T19:44:12 4158 :Sacrifice 12054508 ジョセフィン Rouge Coffin attr:Ice(30)
2013-09-25T19:44:12 4159 :Consume 12054508 ジョセフィン Synthesizer Num(30)
2013-09-25T19:44:29 4160 [Grind(success) +1] 12054508 ジョセフィン Rouge Coffin+1 attr:Ice(50)
2013-09-25T19:44:29 4161 :Consume 12054508 ジョセフィン Grinder Num(2)
2013-09-25T19:44:32 4162 [Grind(success) +1] 12054508 ジョセフィン Rouge Coffin+2 attr:Ice(50)
2013-09-25T19:44:32 4163 :Consume 12054508 ジョセフィン Grinder Num(2)
2013-09-25T19:44:34 4164 [Grind(success) +1] 12054508 ジョセフィン Rouge Coffin+3 attr:Ice(50)
2013-09-25T19:44:34 4165 :Consume 12054508 ジョセフィン Grinder Num(2)
2013-09-25T19:44:37 4166 [Grind(failure) -1] 12054508 ジョセフィン Rouge Coffin+2 attr:Ice(50)
2013-09-25T19:44:37 4167 :Consume 12054508 ジョセフィン Grinder Num(2)
2013-09-25T19:44:40 4168 [Grind(failure) -0] 12054508 ジョセフィン Rouge Coffin+2 attr:Ice(50)
2013-09-25T19:44:40 4169 :Consume 12054508 ジョセフィン Grinder Num(2)
2013-09-25T19:44:43 4170 [Grind(success) +1] 12054508 ジョセフィン Rouge Coffin+3 attr:Ice(50)
2013-09-25T19:44:43 4171 :Consume 12054508 ジョセフィン Grinder Num(2)
2013-09-25T19:44:46 4172 [Grind(failure) -1] 12054508 ジョセフィン Rouge Coffin+2 attr:Ice(50)
2013-09-25T19:44:46 4173 :Consume 12054508 ジョセフィン Grinder Num(2)
2013-09-25T19:44:48 4174 [Grind(success) +1] 12054508 ジョセフィン Rouge Coffin+3 attr:Ice(50)
2013-09-25T19:44:48 4175 :Consume 12054508 ジョセフィン Grinder Num(2)
2013-09-25T19:44:51 4176 [Grind(success) +1] 12054508 ジョセフィン Rouge Coffin+4 attr:Ice(50)
2013-09-25T19:44:51 4177 :Consume 12054508 ジョセフィン Grinder Num(2)
2013-09-25T19:44:54 4178 [Grind(success) +1] 12054508 ジョセフィン Rouge Coffin+5 attr:Ice(50)
2013-09-25T19:44:54 4179 :Consume 12054508 ジョセフィン Grinder Num(2)
2013-09-25T19:44:57 4180 [Grind(failure) -0] 12054508 ジョセフィン Rouge Coffin+5 attr:Ice(50)
2013-09-25T19:44:57 4181 :Consume 12054508 ジョセフィン Grinder Num(2)
2013-09-25T19:45:00 4182 [Grind(failure) -0] 12054508 ジョセフィン Rouge Coffin+5 attr:Ice(50)
2013-09-25T19:45:00 4183 :Consume 12054508 ジョセフィン Grinder Num(2)
2013-09-25T19:45:03 4184 [Grind(success) +1] 12054508 ジョセフィン Rouge Coffin+6 attr:Ice(50)
2013-09-25T19:45:03 4185 :Consume 12054508 ジョセフィン Grinder Num(2)
2013-09-25T19:45:07 4186 [Grind(failure) -2] 12054508 ジョセフィン Rouge Coffin+4 attr:Ice(50)
2013-09-25T19:45:07 4187 :Consume 12054508 ジョセフィン Grinder Num(2)
2013-09-25T19:45:10 4188 [Grind(failure) -1] 12054508 ジョセフィン Rouge Coffin+3 attr:Ice(50)
2013-09-25T19:45:10 4189 :Consume 12054508 ジョセフィン Grinder Num(2)
2013-09-25T19:45:13 4190 [Grind(failure) -0] 12054508 ジョセフィン Rouge Coffin+3 attr:Ice(50)
2013-09-25T19:45:13 4191 :Consume 12054508 ジョセフィン Grinder Num(2)
2013-09-25T19:45:15 4192 [Grind(failure) -0] 12054508 ジョセフィン Rouge Coffin+3 attr:Ice(50)
2013-09-25T19:45:15 4193 :Consume 12054508 ジョセフィン Grinder Num(2)
2013-09-25T19:45:18 4194 [Grind(failure) -0] 12054508 ジョセフィン Rouge Coffin+3 attr:Ice(50)
2013-09-25T19:45:18 4195 :Consume 12054508 ジョセフィン Grinder Num(2)
2013-09-25T19:45:21 4196 [Grind(failure) -1] 12054508 ジョセフィン Rouge Coffin+2 attr:Ice(50)
2013-09-25T19:45:21 4197 :Consume 12054508 ジョセフィン Grinder Num(2)
2013-09-25T19:45:24 4198 [Grind(success) +1] 12054508 ジョセフィン Rouge Coffin+3 attr:Ice(50)
2013-09-25T19:45:24 4199 :Consume 12054508 ジョセフィン Grinder Num(2)
2013-09-25T19:45:27 4200 [Grind(failure) -1] 12054508 ジョセフィン Rouge Coffin+2 attr:Ice(50)
2013-09-25T19:45:27 4201 :Consume 12054508 ジョセフィン Grinder Num(2)
2013-09-25T19:45:30 4202 [Grind(success) +1] 12054508 ジョセフィン Rouge Coffin+3 attr:Ice(50)
2013-09-25T19:45:30 4203 :Consume 12054508 ジョセフィン Grinder Num(2)
2013-09-25T19:45:33 4204 [Grind(success) +1] 12054508 ジョセフィン Rouge Coffin+4 attr:Ice(50)
2013-09-25T19:45:33 4205 :Consume 12054508 ジョセフィン Grinder Num(2)
2013-09-25T19:45:36 4206 [Grind(success) +1] 12054508 ジョセフィン Rouge Coffin+5 attr:Ice(50)
2013-09-25T19:45:36 4207 :Consume 12054508 ジョセフィン Grinder Num(2)
2013-09-25T19:45:39 4208 [Grind(success) +1] 12054508 ジョセフィン Rouge Coffin+6 attr:Ice(50)
2013-09-25T19:45:39 4209 :Consume 12054508 ジョセフィン Grinder Num(2)
2013-09-25T19:45:43 4211 [Grind(failure) -2] 12054508 ジョセフィン Rouge Coffin+4 attr:Ice(50)
2013-09-25T19:45:43 4212 :Consume 12054508 ジョセフィン Grinder Num(2)
2013-09-25T19:45:46 4215 [Grind(success) +1] 12054508 ジョセフィン Rouge Coffin+5 attr:Ice(50)
2013-09-25T19:45:46 4216 :Consume 12054508 ジョセフィン Grinder Num(2)
2013-09-25T19:45:48 4217 [Grind(success) +1] 12054508 ジョセフィン Rouge Coffin+6 attr:Ice(50)
2013-09-25T19:45:48 4218 :Consume 12054508 ジョセフィン Grinder Num(2)
2013-09-25T19:45:51 4220 [Grind(success) +1] 12054508 ジョセフィン Rouge Coffin+7 attr:Ice(50)
2013-09-25T19:45:51 4221 :Consume 12054508 ジョセフィン Grinder Num(2)
2013-09-25T19:45:54 4222 [Grind(success) +1] 12054508 ジョセフィン Rouge Coffin+8 attr:Ice(50)
2013-09-25T19:45:54 4223 :Consume 12054508 ジョセフィン Grinder Num(2)
2013-09-25T19:45:57 4224 [Grind(failure) -1] 12054508 ジョセフィン Rouge Coffin+7 attr:Ice(50)
2013-09-25T19:45:57 4225 :Consume 12054508 ジョセフィン Grinder Num(2)
2013-09-25T19:46:00 4226 [Grind(success) +1] 12054508 ジョセフィン Rouge Coffin+8 attr:Ice(50)
2013-09-25T19:46:00 4227 :Consume 12054508 ジョセフィン Grinder Num(2)
2013-09-25T19:46:03 4228 [Grind(success) +1] 12054508 ジョセフィン Rouge Coffin+9 attr:Ice(50)
2013-09-25T19:46:03 4229 :Consume 12054508 ジョセフィン Grinder Num(2)
2013-09-25T19:46:06 4231 [Grind(failure) -1] 12054508 ジョセフィン Rouge Coffin+8 attr:Ice(50)
2013-09-25T19:46:06 4232 :Consume 12054508 ジョセフィン Grinder Num(2)
2013-09-25T19:46:09 4233 [Grind(success) +1] 12054508 ジョセフィン Rouge Coffin+9 attr:Ice(50)
2013-09-25T19:46:09 4234 :Consume 12054508 ジョセフィン Grinder Num(2)
2013-09-25T19:46:12 4235 [Grind(failure) -2] 12054508 ジョセフィン Rouge Coffin+7 attr:Ice(50)
2013-09-25T19:46:12 4236 :Consume 12054508 ジョセフィン Grinder Num(2)
2013-09-25T19:46:15 4237 [Grind(failure) -1] 12054508 ジョセフィン Rouge Coffin+6 attr:Ice(50)
2013-09-25T19:46:15 4238 :Consume 12054508 ジョセフィン Grinder Num(2)
2013-09-25T19:46:18 4239 [Grind(success) +1] 12054508 ジョセフィン Rouge Coffin+7 attr:Ice(50)
2013-09-25T19:46:18 4240 :Consume 12054508 ジョセフィン Grinder Num(2)
2013-09-25T19:46:21 4241 [Grind(failure) -1] 12054508 ジョセフィン Rouge Coffin+6 attr:Ice(50)
2013-09-25T19:46:21 4242 :Consume 12054508 ジョセフィン Grinder Num(2)
2013-09-25T19:46:26 4243 [Grind(failure) -1] 12054508 ジョセフィン Rouge Coffin+5 attr:Ice(50)
2013-09-25T19:46:26 4244 :Consume 12054508 ジョセフィン Grinder Num(2)
2013-09-25T19:46:28 4245 [Grind(success) +1] 12054508 ジョセフィン Rouge Coffin+6 attr:Ice(50)
2013-09-25T19:46:28 4246 :Consume 12054508 ジョセフィン Grinder Num(2)
2013-09-25T19:46:31 4247 [Grind(success) +1] 12054508 ジョセフィン Rouge Coffin+7 attr:Ice(50)
2013-09-25T19:46:31 4248 :Consume 12054508 ジョセフィン Grinder Num(2)
2013-09-25T19:46:34 4249 [Grind(failure) -1] 12054508 ジョセフィン Rouge Coffin+6 attr:Ice(50)
2013-09-25T19:46:34 4250 :Consume 12054508 ジョセフィン Grinder Num(2)
2013-09-25T19:46:37 4251 [Grind(success) +1] 12054508 ジョセフィン Rouge Coffin+7 attr:Ice(50)
2013-09-25T19:46:37 4252 :Consume 12054508 ジョセフィン Grinder Num(2)
2013-09-25T19:46:40 4253 [Grind(failure) -2] 12054508 ジョセフィン Rouge Coffin+5 attr:Ice(50)
2013-09-25T19:46:40 4254 :Consume 12054508 ジョセフィン Grinder Num(2)
2013-09-25T19:46:43 4255 [Grind(failure) -0] 12054508 ジョセフィン Rouge Coffin+5 attr:Ice(50)
2013-09-25T19:46:43 4256 :Consume 12054508 ジョセフィン Grinder Num(2)
2013-09-25T19:46:46 4257 [Grind(failure) -0] 12054508 ジョセフィン Rouge Coffin+5 attr:Ice(50)
2013-09-25T19:46:46 4258 :Consume 12054508 ジョセフィン Grinder Num(2)
2013-09-25T19:46:50 4259 [Grind(failure) -0] 12054508 ジョセフィン Rouge Coffin+5 attr:Ice(50)
2013-09-25T19:46:50 4260 :Consume 12054508 ジョセフィン Grinder Num(2)
2013-09-25T19:46:53 4261 [Grind(success) +1] 12054508 ジョセフィン Rouge Coffin+6 attr:Ice(50)
2013-09-25T19:46:53 4262 :Consume 12054508 ジョセフィン Grinder Num(2)
2013-09-25T19:47:18 4263 [Grind(failure) -1] 12054508 ジョセフィン Rouge Coffin+5 attr:Ice(50)
2013-09-25T19:47:18 4264 :Consume 12054508 ジョセフィン Grinder Num(2)
2013-09-25T19:47:21 4265 [Grind(success) +1] 12054508 ジョセフィン Rouge Coffin+6 attr:Ice(50)
2013-09-25T19:47:21 4266 :Consume 12054508 ジョセフィン Grinder Num(2)
2013-09-25T19:47:23 4267 [Grind(failure) -1] 12054508 ジョセフィン Rouge Coffin+5 attr:Ice(50)
2013-09-25T19:47:23 4268 :Consume 12054508 ジョセフィン Grinder Num(2)
2013-09-25T19:47:26 4269 [Grind(success) +1] 12054508 ジョセフィン Rouge Coffin+6 attr:Ice(50)
2013-09-25T19:47:26 4270 :Consume 12054508 ジョセフィン Grinder Num(2)
2013-09-25T19:47:29 4271 [Grind(success) +1] 12054508 ジョセフィン Rouge Coffin+7 attr:Ice(50)
2013-09-25T19:47:29 4272 :Consume 12054508 ジョセフィン Grinder Num(2)
2013-09-25T19:47:32 4273 [Grind(failure) -1] 12054508 ジョセフィン Rouge Coffin+6 attr:Ice(50)
2013-09-25T19:47:32 4274 :Consume 12054508 ジョセフィン Grinder Num(2)
2013-09-25T19:47:35 4275 [Grind(failure) -1] 12054508 ジョセフィン Rouge Coffin+5 attr:Ice(50)
2013-09-25T19:47:35 4276 :Consume 12054508 ジョセフィン Grinder Num(2)
2013-09-25T19:47:38 4277 [Grind(failure) -0] 12054508 ジョセフィン Rouge Coffin+5 attr:Ice(50)
2013-09-25T19:47:38 4278 :Consume 12054508 ジョセフィン Grinder Num(2)
2013-09-25T19:47:41 4279 [Grind(failure) -0] 12054508 ジョセフィン Rouge Coffin+5 attr:Ice(50)
2013-09-25T19:47:41 4280 :Consume 12054508 ジョセフィン Grinder Num(2)
2013-09-25T19:47:44 4281 [Grind(success) +1] 12054508 ジョセフィン Rouge Coffin+6 attr:Ice(50)
2013-09-25T19:47:44 4282 :Consume 12054508 ジョセフィン Grinder Num(2)
2013-09-25T19:47:48 4283 [Grind(failure) -1] 12054508 ジョセフィン Rouge Coffin+5 attr:Ice(50)
2013-09-25T19:47:48 4284 :Consume 12054508 ジョセフィン Grinder Num(2)
2013-09-25T19:47:51 4285 [Grind(success) +1] 12054508 ジョセフィン Rouge Coffin+6 attr:Ice(50)
2013-09-25T19:47:51 4286 :Consume 12054508 ジョセフィン Grinder Num(2)
2013-09-25T19:47:54 4287 [Grind(success) +1] 12054508 ジョセフィン Rouge Coffin+7 attr:Ice(50)
2013-09-25T19:47:54 4288 :Consume 12054508 ジョセフィン Grinder Num(2)
2013-09-25T19:47:57 4289 [Grind(success) +1] 12054508 ジョセフィン Rouge Coffin+8 attr:Ice(50)
2013-09-25T19:47:57 4290 :Consume 12054508 ジョセフィン Grinder Num(2)
2013-09-25T19:48:01 4291 [Grind(failure) -2] 12054508 ジョセフィン Rouge Coffin+6 attr:Ice(50)
2013-09-25T19:48:01 4292 :Consume 12054508 ジョセフィン Grinder Num(2)
2013-09-25T19:48:04 4293 [Grind(failure) -1] 12054508 ジョセフィン Rouge Coffin+5 attr:Ice(50)
2013-09-25T19:48:04 4294 :Consume 12054508 ジョセフィン Grinder Num(2)
2013-09-25T19:48:07 4295 [Grind(success) +1] 12054508 ジョセフィン Rouge Coffin+6 attr:Ice(50)
2013-09-25T19:48:07 4296 :Consume 12054508 ジョセフィン Grinder Num(2)
2013-09-25T19:48:10 4297 [Grind(failure) -1] 12054508 ジョセフィン Rouge Coffin+5 attr:Ice(50)
2013-09-25T19:48:10 4298 :Consume 12054508 ジョセフィン Grinder Num(2)
2013-09-25T19:48:13 4299 [Grind(failure) -1] 12054508 ジョセフィン Rouge Coffin+4 attr:Ice(50)
2013-09-25T19:48:13 4300 :Consume 12054508 ジョセフィン Grinder Num(2)
2013-09-25T19:48:16 4301 [Grind(failure) -1] 12054508 ジョセフィン Rouge Coffin+3 attr:Ice(50)
2013-09-25T19:48:16 4302 :Consume 12054508 ジョセフィン Grinder Num(2)
2013-09-25T19:48:19 4303 [Grind(success) +1] 12054508 ジョセフィン Rouge Coffin+4 attr:Ice(50)
2013-09-25T19:48:19 4304 :Consume 12054508 ジョセフィン Grinder Num(2)
2013-09-25T19:48:22 4305 [Grind(success) +1] 12054508 ジョセフィン Rouge Coffin+5 attr:Ice(50)
2013-09-25T19:48:22 4306 :Consume 12054508 ジョセフィン Grinder Num(2)
2013-09-25T19:48:25 4307 [Grind(failure) -1] 12054508 ジョセフィン Rouge Coffin+4 attr:Ice(50)
2013-09-25T19:48:25 4308 :Consume 12054508 ジョセフィン Grinder Num(2)
2013-09-25T19:48:28 4309 [Grind(failure) -0] 12054508 ジョセフィン Rouge Coffin+4 attr:Ice(50)
2013-09-25T19:48:28 4310 :Consume 12054508 ジョセフィン Grinder Num(2)
2013-09-25T19:48:31 4311 [Grind(success) +1] 12054508 ジョセフィン Rouge Coffin+5 attr:Ice(50)
2013-09-25T19:48:31 4312 :Consume 12054508 ジョセフィン Grinder Num(2)
2013-09-25T19:48:34 4313 [Grind(success) +1] 12054508 ジョセフィン Rouge Coffin+6 attr:Ice(50)
2013-09-25T19:48:34 4314 :Consume 12054508 ジョセフィン Grinder Num(2)
2013-09-25T19:48:36 4315 [Grind(failure) -1] 12054508 ジョセフィン Rouge Coffin+5 attr:Ice(50)
2013-09-25T19:48:36 4316 :Consume 12054508 ジョセフィン Grinder Num(2)
2013-09-25T19:48:39 4317 [Grind(failure) -2] 12054508 ジョセフィン Rouge Coffin+3 attr:Ice(50)
2013-09-25T19:48:39 4318 :Consume 12054508 ジョセフィン Grinder Num(2)
2013-09-25T19:48:42 4319 [Grind(success) +1] 12054508 ジョセフィン Rouge Coffin+4 attr:Ice(50)
2013-09-25T19:48:42 4320 :Consume 12054508 ジョセフィン Grinder Num(2)
2013-09-25T19:48:45 4321 [Grind(success) +1] 12054508 ジョセフィン Rouge Coffin+5 attr:Ice(50)
2013-09-25T19:48:45 4322 :Consume 12054508 ジョセフィン Grinder Num(2)
2013-09-25T19:48:48 4323 [Grind(success) +1] 12054508 ジョセフィン Rouge Coffin+6 attr:Ice(50)
2013-09-25T19:48:48 4324 :Consume 12054508 ジョセフィン Grinder Num(2)
2013-09-25T19:48:51 4325 [Grind(success) +1] 12054508 ジョセフィン Rouge Coffin+7 attr:Ice(50)
2013-09-25T19:48:51 4326 :Consume 12054508 ジョセフィン Grinder Num(2)
2013-09-25T19:48:54 4327 [Grind(failure) -1] 12054508 ジョセフィン Rouge Coffin+6 attr:Ice(50)
2013-09-25T19:48:54 4328 :Consume 12054508 ジョセフィン Grinder Num(2)
2013-09-25T19:48:57 4329 [Grind(failure) -1] 12054508 ジョセフィン Rouge Coffin+5 attr:Ice(50)
2013-09-25T19:48:57 4330 :Consume 12054508 ジョセフィン Grinder Num(2)
2013-09-25T19:49:00 4331 [Grind(failure) -0] 12054508 ジョセフィン Rouge Coffin+5 attr:Ice(50)
2013-09-25T19:49:00 4332 :Consume 12054508 ジョセフィン Grinder Num(2)
2013-09-25T19:49:03 4333 [Grind(success) +1] 12054508 ジョセフィン Rouge Coffin+6 attr:Ice(50)
2013-09-25T19:49:03 4334 :Consume 12054508 ジョセフィン Grinder Num(2)
2013-09-25T19:49:05 4335 [Grind(success) +1] 12054508 ジョセフィン Rouge Coffin+7 attr:Ice(50)
2013-09-25T19:49:05 4336 :Consume 12054508 ジョセフィン Grinder Num(2)
2013-09-25T19:49:08 4337 [Grind(failure) -1] 12054508 ジョセフィン Rouge Coffin+6 attr:Ice(50)
2013-09-25T19:49:08 4338 :Consume 12054508 ジョセフィン Grinder Num(2)
2013-09-25T19:49:11 4339 [Grind(success) +1] 12054508 ジョセフィン Rouge Coffin+7 attr:Ice(50)
2013-09-25T19:49:11 4340 :Consume 12054508 ジョセフィン Grinder Num(2)
2013-09-25T19:49:14 4341 [Grind(success) +1] 12054508 ジョセフィン Rouge Coffin+8 attr:Ice(50)
2013-09-25T19:49:14 4342 :Consume 12054508 ジョセフィン Grinder Num(2)
2013-09-25T19:49:17 4343 [Grind(success) +1] 12054508 ジョセフィン Rouge Coffin+9 attr:Ice(50)
2013-09-25T19:49:17 4344 :Consume 12054508 ジョセフィン Grinder Num(2)
2013-09-25T19:49:20 4345 [Grind(failure) -1] 12054508 ジョセフィン Rouge Coffin+8 attr:Ice(50)
2013-09-25T19:49:20 4346 :Consume 12054508 ジョセフィン Grinder Num(2)
2013-09-25T19:49:23 4347 [Grind(success) +1] 12054508 ジョセフィン Rouge Coffin+9 attr:Ice(50)
2013-09-25T19:49:23 4348 :Consume 12054508 ジョセフィン Grinder Num(2)
2013-09-25T19:49:26 4349 [Grind(failure) -1] 12054508 ジョセフィン Rouge Coffin+8 attr:Ice(50)
2013-09-25T19:49:26 4350 :Consume 12054508 ジョセフィン Grinder Num(2)
2013-09-25T19:49:29 4351 [Grind(failure) -2] 12054508 ジョセフィン Rouge Coffin+6 attr:Ice(50)
2013-09-25T19:49:29 4352 :Consume 12054508 ジョセフィン Grinder Num(2)
2013-09-25T19:49:32 4353 [Grind(success) +1] 12054508 ジョセフィン Rouge Coffin+7 attr:Ice(50)
2013-09-25T19:49:32 4354 :Consume 12054508 ジョセフィン Grinder Num(2)
2013-09-25T19:49:34 4355 [Grind(success) +1] 12054508 ジョセフィン Rouge Coffin+8 attr:Ice(50)
2013-09-25T19:49:34 4356 :Consume 12054508 ジョセフィン Grinder Num(2)
2013-09-25T19:49:38 4357 [Grind(failure) -1] 12054508 ジョセフィン Rouge Coffin+7 attr:Ice(50)
2013-09-25T19:49:38 4358 :Consume 12054508 ジョセフィン Grinder Num(2)
2013-09-25T19:49:41 4359 [Grind(success) +1] 12054508 ジョセフィン Rouge Coffin+8 attr:Ice(50)
2013-09-25T19:49:41 4360 :Consume 12054508 ジョセフィン Grinder Num(2)
2013-09-25T19:50:05 4361 [Grind(failure) -1] 12054508 ジョセフィン Rouge Coffin+7 attr:Ice(50)
2013-09-25T19:50:05 4362 :Consume 12054508 ジョセフィン Grinder Num(2)
2013-09-25T19:50:08 4363 [Grind(success) +1] 12054508 ジョセフィン Rouge Coffin+8 attr:Ice(50)
2013-09-25T19:50:08 4364 :Consume 12054508 ジョセフィン Grinder Num(2)
2013-09-25T19:50:11 4366 [Grind(success) +1] 12054508 ジョセフィン Rouge Coffin+9 attr:Ice(50)
2013-09-25T19:50:11 4367 :Consume 12054508 ジョセフィン Grinder Num(2)
2013-09-25T19:50:14 4368 [Grind(failure) -1] 12054508 ジョセフィン Rouge Coffin+8 attr:Ice(50)
2013-09-25T19:50:14 4369 :Consume 12054508 ジョセフィン Grinder Num(2)
2013-09-25T19:50:18 4370 [Grind(failure) -1] 12054508 ジョセフィン Rouge Coffin+7 attr:Ice(50)
2013-09-25T19:50:18 4371 :Consume 12054508 ジョセフィン Grinder Num(2)
2013-09-25T19:50:21 4372 [Grind(success) +1] 12054508 ジョセフィン Rouge Coffin+8 attr:Ice(50)
2013-09-25T19:50:21 4373 :Consume 12054508 ジョセフィン Grinder Num(2)
2013-09-25T19:50:24 4374 [Grind(failure) -1] 12054508 ジョセフィン Rouge Coffin+7 attr:Ice(50)
2013-09-25T19:50:24 4375 :Consume 12054508 ジョセフィン Grinder Num(2)
2013-09-25T19:50:27 4376 [Grind(success) +1] 12054508 ジョセフィン Rouge Coffin+8 attr:Ice(50)
2013-09-25T19:50:27 4377 :Consume 12054508 ジョセフィン Grinder Num(2)
2013-09-25T19:50:30 4378 [Grind(failure) -2] 12054508 ジョセフィン Rouge Coffin+6 attr:Ice(50)
2013-09-25T19:50:30 4379 :Consume 12054508 ジョセフィン Grinder Num(2)
2013-09-25T19:50:32 4380 [Grind(failure) -1] 12054508 ジョセフィン Rouge Coffin+5 attr:Ice(50)
2013-09-25T19:50:32 4381 :Consume 12054508 ジョセフィン Grinder Num(2)
2013-09-25T19:50:35 4382 [Grind(failure) -1] 12054508 ジョセフィン Rouge Coffin+4 attr:Ice(50)
2013-09-25T19:50:35 4383 :Consume 12054508 ジョセフィン Grinder Num(2)
2013-09-25T19:50:38 4384 [Grind(failure) -1] 12054508 ジョセフィン Rouge Coffin+3 attr:Ice(50)
2013-09-25T19:50:38 4385 :Consume 12054508 ジョセフィン Grinder Num(2)
2013-09-25T19:50:41 4386 [Grind(failure) -0] 12054508 ジョセフィン Rouge Coffin+3 attr:Ice(50)
2013-09-25T19:50:41 4387 :Consume 12054508 ジョセフィン Grinder Num(2)
2013-09-25T19:50:44 4388 [Grind(success) +1] 12054508 ジョセフィン Rouge Coffin+4 attr:Ice(50)
2013-09-25T19:50:44 4389 :Consume 12054508 ジョセフィン Grinder Num(2)
2013-09-25T19:50:47 4390 [Grind(success) +1] 12054508 ジョセフィン Rouge Coffin+5 attr:Ice(50)
2013-09-25T19:50:47 4391 :Consume 12054508 ジョセフィン Grinder Num(2)
2013-09-25T19:50:50 4392 [Grind(failure) -1] 12054508 ジョセフィン Rouge Coffin+4 attr:Ice(50)
2013-09-25T19:50:50 4393 :Consume 12054508 ジョセフィン Grinder Num(2)
2013-09-25T19:50:53 4394 [Grind(failure) -1] 12054508 ジョセフィン Rouge Coffin+3 attr:Ice(50)
2013-09-25T19:50:53 4395 :Consume 12054508 ジョセフィン Grinder Num(2)
2013-09-25T19:50:56 4396 [Grind(success) +1] 12054508 ジョセフィン Rouge Coffin+4 attr:Ice(50)
2013-09-25T19:50:56 4397 :Consume 12054508 ジョセフィン Grinder Num(2)
2013-09-25T19:50:59 4398 [Grind(success) +1] 12054508 ジョセフィン Rouge Coffin+5 attr:Ice(50)
2013-09-25T19:50:59 4399 :Consume 12054508 ジョセフィン Grinder Num(2)
2013-09-25T19:51:02 4400 [Grind(success) +1] 12054508 ジョセフィン Rouge Coffin+6 attr:Ice(50)
2013-09-25T19:51:02 4401 :Consume 12054508 ジョセフィン Grinder Num(2)
2013-09-25T19:51:05 4402 [Grind(failure) -1] 12054508 ジョセフィン Rouge Coffin+5 attr:Ice(50)
2013-09-25T19:51:05 4403 :Consume 12054508 ジョセフィン Grinder Num(2)
2013-09-25T19:51:08 4404 [Grind(success) +1] 12054508 ジョセフィン Rouge Coffin+6 attr:Ice(50)
2013-09-25T19:51:08 4405 :Consume 12054508 ジョセフィン Grinder Num(2)
2013-09-25T19:51:11 4406 [Grind(failure) -2] 12054508 ジョセフィン Rouge Coffin+4 attr:Ice(50)
2013-09-25T19:51:11 4407 :Consume 12054508 ジョセフィン Grinder Num(2)
2013-09-25T19:51:14 4408 [Grind(success) +1] 12054508 ジョセフィン Rouge Coffin+5 attr:Ice(50)
2013-09-25T19:51:14 4409 :Consume 12054508 ジョセフィン Grinder Num(2)
2013-09-25T19:51:17 4410 [Grind(success) +1] 12054508 ジョセフィン Rouge Coffin+6 attr:Ice(50)
2013-09-25T19:51:17 4411 :Consume 12054508 ジョセフィン Grinder Num(2)
2013-09-25T19:51:20 4412 [Grind(failure) -1] 12054508 ジョセフィン Rouge Coffin+5 attr:Ice(50)
2013-09-25T19:51:20 4413 :Consume 12054508 ジョセフィン Grinder Num(2)
2013-09-25T19:51:23 4414 [Grind(failure) -1] 12054508 ジョセフィン Rouge Coffin+4 attr:Ice(50)
2013-09-25T19:51:23 4415 :Consume 12054508 ジョセフィン Grinder Num(2)
2013-09-25T19:51:25 4416 [Grind(failure) -1] 12054508 ジョセフィン Rouge Coffin+3 attr:Ice(50)
2013-09-25T19:51:25 4417 :Consume 12054508 ジョセフィン Grinder Num(2)
2013-09-25T19:51:28 4418 [Grind(success) +1] 12054508 ジョセフィン Rouge Coffin+4 attr:Ice(50)
2013-09-25T19:51:28 4419 :Consume 12054508 ジョセフィン Grinder Num(2)
2013-09-25T19:51:31 4420 [Grind(failure) -0] 12054508 ジョセフィン Rouge Coffin+4 attr:Ice(50)
2013-09-25T19:51:31 4421 :Consume 12054508 ジョセフィン Grinder Num(2)
2013-09-25T19:51:34 4422 [Grind(success) +1] 12054508 ジョセフィン Rouge Coffin+5 attr:Ice(50)
2013-09-25T19:51:34 4423 :Consume 12054508 ジョセフィン Grinder Num(2)
2013-09-25T19:51:37 4424 [Grind(success) +1] 12054508 ジョセフィン Rouge Coffin+6 attr:Ice(50)
2013-09-25T19:51:37 4425 :Consume 12054508 ジョセフィン Grinder Num(2)
2013-09-25T19:51:40 4426 [Grind(failure) -1] 12054508 ジョセフィン Rouge Coffin+5 attr:Ice(50)
2013-09-25T19:51:40 4427 :Consume 12054508 ジョセフィン Grinder Num(2)
2013-09-25T19:51:43 4428 [Grind(success) +1] 12054508 ジョセフィン Rouge Coffin+6 attr:Ice(50)
2013-09-25T19:51:43 4429 :Consume 12054508 ジョセフィン Grinder Num(2)
2013-09-25T19:51:46 4430 [Grind(success) +1] 12054508 ジョセフィン Rouge Coffin+7 attr:Ice(50)
2013-09-25T19:51:46 4431 :Consume 12054508 ジョセフィン Grinder Num(2)
2013-09-25T19:51:49 4432 [Grind(success) +1] 12054508 ジョセフィン Rouge Coffin+8 attr:Ice(50)
2013-09-25T19:51:49 4433 :Consume 12054508 ジョセフィン Grinder Num(2)
2013-09-25T19:51:52 4434 [Grind(failure) -2] 12054508 ジョセフィン Rouge Coffin+6 attr:Ice(50)
2013-09-25T19:51:52 4435 :Consume 12054508 ジョセフィン Grinder Num(2)
2013-09-25T19:51:55 4436 [Grind(failure) -2] 12054508 ジョセフィン Rouge Coffin+4 attr:Ice(50)
2013-09-25T19:51:55 4437 :Consume 12054508 ジョセフィン Grinder Num(2)
2013-09-25T19:51:58 4438 [Grind(success) +1] 12054508 ジョセフィン Rouge Coffin+5 attr:Ice(50)
2013-09-25T19:51:58 4439 :Consume 12054508 ジョセフィン Grinder Num(2)
2013-09-25T19:52:01 4440 [Grind(success) +1] 12054508 ジョセフィン Rouge Coffin+6 attr:Ice(50)
2013-09-25T19:52:01 4441 :Consume 12054508 ジョセフィン Grinder Num(2)
2013-09-25T19:52:03 4442 [Grind(failure) -1] 12054508 ジョセフィン Rouge Coffin+5 attr:Ice(50)
2013-09-25T19:52:03 4443 :Consume 12054508 ジョセフィン Grinder Num(2)
2013-09-25T19:52:06 4444 [Grind(success) +1] 12054508 ジョセフィン Rouge Coffin+6 attr:Ice(50)
2013-09-25T19:52:06 4445 :Consume 12054508 ジョセフィン Grinder Num(2)
2013-09-25T19:52:09 4446 [Grind(success) +1] 12054508 ジョセフィン Rouge Coffin+7 attr:Ice(50)
2013-09-25T19:52:09 4447 :Consume 12054508 ジョセフィン Grinder Num(2)
2013-09-25T19:52:12 4448 [Grind(success) +1] 12054508 ジョセフィン Rouge Coffin+8 attr:Ice(50)
2013-09-25T19:52:12 4449 :Consume 12054508 ジョセフィン Grinder Num(2)
2013-09-25T19:52:15 4450 [Grind(failure) -1] 12054508 ジョセフィン Rouge Coffin+7 attr:Ice(50)
2013-09-25T19:52:15 4451 :Consume 12054508 ジョセフィン Grinder Num(2)
2013-09-25T19:52:18 4452 [Grind(failure) -1] 12054508 ジョセフィン Rouge Coffin+6 attr:Ice(50)
2013-09-25T19:52:18 4453 :Consume 12054508 ジョセフィン Grinder Num(2)
2013-09-25T19:52:20 4454 [Grind(failure) -1] 12054508 ジョセフィン Rouge Coffin+5 attr:Ice(50)
2013-09-25T19:52:20 4455 :Consume 12054508 ジョセフィン Grinder Num(2)
2013-09-25T19:52:23 4456 [Grind(failure) -0] 12054508 ジョセフィン Rouge Coffin+5 attr:Ice(50)
2013-09-25T19:52:23 4457 :Consume 12054508 ジョセフィン Grinder Num(2)
2013-09-25T19:52:26 4458 [Grind(failure) -0] 12054508 ジョセフィン Rouge Coffin+5 attr:Ice(50)
2013-09-25T19:52:26 4459 :Consume 12054508 ジョセフィン Grinder Num(2)
2013-09-25T19:52:47 4460 [Grind(failure) -0] 12054508 ジョセフィン Rouge Coffin+5 attr:Ice(50)
2013-09-25T19:52:47 4461 :Consume 12054508 ジョセフィン Grinder Num(2)
2013-09-25T19:52:50 4462 [Grind(success) +1] 12054508 ジョセフィン Rouge Coffin+6 attr:Ice(50)
2013-09-25T19:52:50 4463 :Consume 12054508 ジョセフィン Grinder Num(2)
2013-09-25T19:52:53 4464 [Grind(failure) -1] 12054508 ジョセフィン Rouge Coffin+5 attr:Ice(50)
2013-09-25T19:52:53 4465 :Consume 12054508 ジョセフィン Grinder Num(2)
2013-09-25T19:52:55 4466 [Grind(failure) -0] 12054508 ジョセフィン Rouge Coffin+5 attr:Ice(50)
2013-09-25T19:52:55 4467 :Consume 12054508 ジョセフィン Grinder Num(2)
2013-09-25T19:52:58 4468 [Grind(success) +1] 12054508 ジョセフィン Rouge Coffin+6 attr:Ice(50)
2013-09-25T19:52:58 4469 :Consume 12054508 ジョセフィン Grinder Num(2)
2013-09-25T19:53:01 4470 [Grind(success) +1] 12054508 ジョセフィン Rouge Coffin+7 attr:Ice(50)
2013-09-25T19:53:01 4471 :Consume 12054508 ジョセフィン Grinder Num(2)
2013-09-25T19:53:04 4472 [Grind(failure) -2] 12054508 ジョセフィン Rouge Coffin+5 attr:Ice(50)
2013-09-25T19:53:04 4473 :Consume 12054508 ジョセフィン Grinder Num(2)
2013-09-25T19:53:07 4474 [Grind(success) +1] 12054508 ジョセフィン Rouge Coffin+6 attr:Ice(50)
2013-09-25T19:53:07 4475 :Consume 12054508 ジョセフィン Grinder Num(2)
2013-09-25T19:53:10 4476 [Grind(success) +1] 12054508 ジョセフィン Rouge Coffin+7 attr:Ice(50)
2013-09-25T19:53:10 4477 :Consume 12054508 ジョセフィン Grinder Num(2)
2013-09-25T19:53:13 4478 [Grind(failure) -1] 12054508 ジョセフィン Rouge Coffin+6 attr:Ice(50)
2013-09-25T19:53:13 4479 :Consume 12054508 ジョセフィン Grinder Num(2)
2013-09-25T19:53:16 4480 [Grind(failure) -1] 12054508 ジョセフィン Rouge Coffin+5 attr:Ice(50)
2013-09-25T19:53:16 4481 :Consume 12054508 ジョセフィン Grinder Num(2)
2013-09-25T19:53:19 4482 [Grind(success) +1] 12054508 ジョセフィン Rouge Coffin+6 attr:Ice(50)
2013-09-25T19:53:19 4483 :Consume 12054508 ジョセフィン Grinder Num(2)
2013-09-25T19:53:22 4484 [Grind(failure) -1] 12054508 ジョセフィン Rouge Coffin+5 attr:Ice(50)
2013-09-25T19:53:22 4485 :Consume 12054508 ジョセフィン Grinder Num(2)
2013-09-25T19:53:25 4486 [Grind(success) +1] 12054508 ジョセフィン Rouge Coffin+6 attr:Ice(50)
2013-09-25T19:53:25 4487 :Consume 12054508 ジョセフィン Grinder Num(2)
2013-09-25T19:53:28 4488 [Grind(failure) -1] 12054508 ジョセフィン Rouge Coffin+5 attr:Ice(50)
2013-09-25T19:53:28 4489 :Consume 12054508 ジョセフィン Grinder Num(2)
2013-09-25T19:53:31 4490 [Grind(success) +1] 12054508 ジョセフィン Rouge Coffin+6 attr:Ice(50)
2013-09-25T19:53:31 4491 :Consume 12054508 ジョセフィン Grinder Num(2)
2013-09-25T19:53:34 4492 [Grind(success) +1] 12054508 ジョセフィン Rouge Coffin+7 attr:Ice(50)
2013-09-25T19:53:34 4493 :Consume 12054508 ジョセフィン Grinder Num(2)
2013-09-25T19:53:36 4494 [Grind(failure) -2] 12054508 ジョセフィン Rouge Coffin+5 attr:Ice(50)
2013-09-25T19:53:36 4495 :Consume 12054508 ジョセフィン Grinder Num(2)
2013-09-25T19:53:39 4496 [Grind(failure) -1] 12054508 ジョセフィン Rouge Coffin+4 attr:Ice(50)
2013-09-25T19:53:39 4497 :Consume 12054508 ジョセフィン Grinder Num(2)
2013-09-25T19:53:42 4498 [Grind(success) +1] 12054508 ジョセフィン Rouge Coffin+5 attr:Ice(50)
2013-09-25T19:53:42 4499 :Consume 12054508 ジョセフィン Grinder Num(2)
2013-09-25T19:53:45 4500 [Grind(failure) -0] 12054508 ジョセフィン Rouge Coffin+5 attr:Ice(50)
2013-09-25T19:53:45 4501 :Consume 12054508 ジョセフィン Grinder Num(2)
2013-09-25T19:53:47 4502 [Grind(success) +1] 12054508 ジョセフィン Rouge Coffin+6 attr:Ice(50)
2013-09-25T19:53:47 4503 :Consume 12054508 ジョセフィン Grinder Num(2)
2013-09-25T19:53:50 4504 [Grind(success) +1] 12054508 ジョセフィン Rouge Coffin+7 attr:Ice(50)
2013-09-25T19:53:50 4505 :Consume 12054508 ジョセフィン Grinder Num(2)
2013-09-25T19:53:53 4506 [Grind(failure) -1] 12054508 ジョセフィン Rouge Coffin+6 attr:Ice(50)
2013-09-25T19:53:53 4507 :Consume 12054508 ジョセフィン Grinder Num(2)
2013-09-25T19:53:56 4508 [Grind(success) +1] 12054508 ジョセフィン Rouge Coffin+7 attr:Ice(50)
2013-09-25T19:53:56 4509 :Consume 12054508 ジョセフィン Grinder Num(2)
2013-09-25T19:53:59 4510 [Grind(failure) -1] 12054508 ジョセフィン Rouge Coffin+6 attr:Ice(50)
2013-09-25T19:53:59 4511 :Consume 12054508 ジョセフィン Grinder Num(2)
2013-09-25T19:54:02 4512 [Grind(failure) -2] 12054508 ジョセフィン Rouge Coffin+4 attr:Ice(50)
2013-09-25T19:54:02 4513 :Consume 12054508 ジョセフィン Grinder Num(2)
2013-09-25T19:54:05 4514 [Grind(failure) -1] 12054508 ジョセフィン Rouge Coffin+3 attr:Ice(50)
2013-09-25T19:54:05 4515 :Consume 12054508 ジョセフィン Grinder Num(2)
2013-09-25T19:54:08 4516 [Grind(success) +1] 12054508 ジョセフィン Rouge Coffin+4 attr:Ice(50)
2013-09-25T19:54:08 4517 :Consume 12054508 ジョセフィン Grinder Num(2)
2013-09-25T19:54:11 4518 [Grind(failure) -1] 12054508 ジョセフィン Rouge Coffin+3 attr:Ice(50)
2013-09-25T19:54:11 4519 :Consume 12054508 ジョセフィン Grinder Num(2)
2013-09-25T19:54:14 4520 [Grind(success) +1] 12054508 ジョセフィン Rouge Coffin+4 attr:Ice(50)
2013-09-25T19:54:14 4521 :Consume 12054508 ジョセフィン Grinder Num(2)
2013-09-25T19:54:17 4522 [Grind(failure) -0] 12054508 ジョセフィン Rouge Coffin+4 attr:Ice(50)
2013-09-25T19:54:17 4523 :Consume 12054508 ジョセフィン Grinder Num(2)
2013-09-25T19:54:20 4524 [Grind(success) +1] 12054508 ジョセフィン Rouge Coffin+5 attr:Ice(50)
2013-09-25T19:54:20 4525 :Consume 12054508 ジョセフィン Grinder Num(2)
2013-09-25T19:54:23 4526 [Grind(failure) -2] 12054508 ジョセフィン Rouge Coffin+3 attr:Ice(50)
2013-09-25T19:54:23 4527 :Consume 12054508 ジョセフィン Grinder Num(2)
2013-09-25T19:54:26 4528 [Grind(success) +1] 12054508 ジョセフィン Rouge Coffin+4 attr:Ice(50)
2013-09-25T19:54:26 4529 :Consume 12054508 ジョセフィン Grinder Num(2)
2013-09-25T19:54:29 4530 [Grind(failure) -0] 12054508 ジョセフィン Rouge Coffin+4 attr:Ice(50)
2013-09-25T19:54:29 4531 :Consume 12054508 ジョセフィン Grinder Num(2)
2013-09-25T19:54:31 4532 [Grind(success) +1] 12054508 ジョセフィン Rouge Coffin+5 attr:Ice(50)
2013-09-25T19:54:31 4533 :Consume 12054508 ジョセフィン Grinder Num(2)
2013-09-25T19:54:34 4534 [Grind(failure) -0] 12054508 ジョセフィン Rouge Coffin+5 attr:Ice(50)
2013-09-25T19:54:34 4535 :Consume 12054508 ジョセフィン Grinder Num(2)
2013-09-25T19:54:37 4536 [Grind(failure) -2] 12054508 ジョセフィン Rouge Coffin+3 attr:Ice(50)
2013-09-25T19:54:37 4537 :Consume 12054508 ジョセフィン Grinder Num(2)
2013-09-25T19:54:40 4538 [Grind(success) +1] 12054508 ジョセフィン Rouge Coffin+4 attr:Ice(50)
2013-09-25T19:54:40 4539 :Consume 12054508 ジョセフィン Grinder Num(2)
2013-09-25T19:54:43 4540 [Grind(failure) -0] 12054508 ジョセフィン Rouge Coffin+4 attr:Ice(50)
2013-09-25T19:54:43 4541 :Consume 12054508 ジョセフィン Grinder Num(2)
2013-09-25T19:54:46 4542 [Grind(failure) -1] 12054508 ジョセフィン Rouge Coffin+3 attr:Ice(50)
2013-09-25T19:54:46 4543 :Consume 12054508 ジョセフィン Grinder Num(2)
2013-09-25T19:54:49 4544 [Grind(failure) -1] 12054508 ジョセフィン Rouge Coffin+2 attr:Ice(50)
2013-09-25T19:54:49 4545 :Consume 12054508 ジョセフィン Grinder Num(2)
2013-09-25T19:54:52 4546 [Grind(success) +1] 12054508 ジョセフィン Rouge Coffin+3 attr:Ice(50)
2013-09-25T19:54:52 4547 :Consume 12054508 ジョセフィン Grinder Num(2)
2013-09-25T19:54:55 4548 [Grind(success) +1] 12054508 ジョセフィン Rouge Coffin+4 attr:Ice(50)
2013-09-25T19:54:55 4549 :Consume 12054508 ジョセフィン Grinder Num(2)
2013-09-25T19:54:58 4550 [Grind(failure) -0] 12054508 ジョセフィン Rouge Coffin+4 attr:Ice(50)
2013-09-25T19:54:58 4551 :Consume 12054508 ジョセフィン Grinder Num(2)
2013-09-25T19:55:01 4552 [Grind(failure) -0] 12054508 ジョセフィン Rouge Coffin+4 attr:Ice(50)
2013-09-25T19:55:01 4553 :Consume 12054508 ジョセフィン Grinder Num(2)
2013-09-25T19:55:04 4554 [Grind(failure) -1] 12054508 ジョセフィン Rouge Coffin+3 attr:Ice(50)
2013-09-25T19:55:04 4555 :Consume 12054508 ジョセフィン Grinder Num(2)
2013-09-25T19:55:06 4556 [Grind(failure) -1] 12054508 ジョセフィン Rouge Coffin+2 attr:Ice(50)
2013-09-25T19:55:06 4557 :Consume 12054508 ジョセフィン Grinder Num(2)
2013-09-25T19:55:30 4558 [Grind(failure) -1] 12054508 ジョセフィン Rouge Coffin+1 attr:Ice(50)
2013-09-25T19:55:30 4559 :Consume 12054508 ジョセフィン Grinder Num(2)
2013-09-25T19:55:33 4560 [Grind(success) +1] 12054508 ジョセフィン Rouge Coffin+2 attr:Ice(50)
2013-09-25T19:55:33 4561 :Consume 12054508 ジョセフィン Grinder Num(2)
2013-09-25T19:55:36 4562 [Grind(failure) -0] 12054508 ジョセフィン Rouge Coffin+2 attr:Ice(50)
2013-09-25T19:55:36 4563 :Consume 12054508 ジョセフィン Grinder Num(2)
2013-09-25T19:55:39 4564 [Grind(failure) -0] 12054508 ジョセフィン Rouge Coffin+2 attr:Ice(50)
2013-09-25T19:55:39 4565 :Consume 12054508 ジョセフィン Grinder Num(2)
2013-09-25T19:55:42 4566 [Grind(failure) -0] 12054508 ジョセフィン Rouge Coffin+2 attr:Ice(50)
2013-09-25T19:55:42 4567 :Consume 12054508 ジョセフィン Grinder Num(2)
2013-09-25T19:55:45 4568 [Grind(failure) -1] 12054508 ジョセフィン Rouge Coffin+1 attr:Ice(50)
2013-09-25T19:55:45 4569 :Consume 12054508 ジョセフィン Grinder Num(2)
2013-09-25T19:55:48 4570 [Grind(success) +1] 12054508 ジョセフィン Rouge Coffin+2 attr:Ice(50)
2013-09-25T19:55:48 4571 :Consume 12054508 ジョセフィン Grinder Num(2)
2013-09-25T19:55:51 4572 [Grind(success) +1] 12054508 ジョセフィン Rouge Coffin+3 attr:Ice(50)
2013-09-25T19:55:51 4573 :Consume 12054508 ジョセフィン Grinder Num(2)
2013-09-25T19:55:54 4574 [Grind(success) +1] 12054508 ジョセフィン Rouge Coffin+4 attr:Ice(50)
2013-09-25T19:55:54 4575 :Consume 12054508 ジョセフィン Grinder Num(2)
2013-09-25T19:55:57 4576 [Grind(success) +1] 12054508 ジョセフィン Rouge Coffin+5 attr:Ice(50)
2013-09-25T19:55:57 4577 :Consume 12054508 ジョセフィン Grinder Num(2)
2013-09-25T19:55:59 4578 [Grind(success) +1] 12054508 ジョセフィン Rouge Coffin+6 attr:Ice(50)
2013-09-25T19:55:59 4579 :Consume 12054508 ジョセフィン Grinder Num(2)
2013-09-25T19:56:02 4580 [Grind(failure) -1] 12054508 ジョセフィン Rouge Coffin+5 attr:Ice(50)
2013-09-25T19:56:02 4581 :Consume 12054508 ジョセフィン Grinder Num(2)
2013-09-25T19:56:05 4582 [Grind(failure) -1] 12054508 ジョセフィン Rouge Coffin+4 attr:Ice(50)
2013-09-25T19:56:05 4583 :Consume 12054508 ジョセフィン Grinder Num(2)
2013-09-25T19:56:08 4584 [Grind(failure) -1] 12054508 ジョセフィン Rouge Coffin+3 attr:Ice(50)
2013-09-25T19:56:08 4585 :Consume 12054508 ジョセフィン Grinder Num(2)
2013-09-25T19:56:11 4586 [Grind(failure) -1] 12054508 ジョセフィン Rouge Coffin+2 attr:Ice(50)
2013-09-25T19:56:11 4587 :Consume 12054508 ジョセフィン Grinder Num(2)
2013-09-25T19:56:14 4588 [Grind(success) +1] 12054508 ジョセフィン Rouge Coffin+3 attr:Ice(50)
2013-09-25T19:56:14 4589 :Consume 12054508 ジョセフィン Grinder Num(2)
2013-09-25T19:56:17 4590 [Grind(success) +1] 12054508 ジョセフィン Rouge Coffin+4 attr:Ice(50)
2013-09-25T19:56:17 4591 :Consume 12054508 ジョセフィン Grinder Num(2)
2013-09-25T19:56:19 4592 [Grind(success) +1] 12054508 ジョセフィン Rouge Coffin+5 attr:Ice(50)
2013-09-25T19:56:19 4593 :Consume 12054508 ジョセフィン Grinder Num(2)
2013-09-25T19:56:23 4594 [Grind(failure) -2] 12054508 ジョセフィン Rouge Coffin+3 attr:Ice(50)
2013-09-25T19:56:23 4595 :Consume 12054508 ジョセフィン Grinder Num(2)
2013-09-25T19:56:26 4596 [Grind(failure) -0] 12054508 ジョセフィン Rouge Coffin+3 attr:Ice(50)
2013-09-25T19:56:26 4597 :Consume 12054508 ジョセフィン Grinder Num(2)
2013-09-25T19:56:28 4598 [Grind(success) +1] 12054508 ジョセフィン Rouge Coffin+4 attr:Ice(50)
2013-09-25T19:56:28 4599 :Consume 12054508 ジョセフィン Grinder Num(2)
2013-09-25T19:56:31 4600 [Grind(failure) -0] 12054508 ジョセフィン Rouge Coffin+4 attr:Ice(50)
2013-09-25T19:56:31 4601 :Consume 12054508 ジョセフィン Grinder Num(2)
2013-09-25T19:56:34 4602 [Grind(failure) -0] 12054508 ジョセフィン Rouge Coffin+4 attr:Ice(50)
2013-09-25T19:56:34 4603 :Consume 12054508 ジョセフィン Grinder Num(2)
2013-09-25T19:56:37 4604 [Grind(success) +1] 12054508 ジョセフィン Rouge Coffin+5 attr:Ice(50)
2013-09-25T19:56:37 4605 :Consume 12054508 ジョセフィン Grinder Num(2)
2013-09-25T19:56:40 4606 [Grind(success) +1] 12054508 ジョセフィン Rouge Coffin+6 attr:Ice(50)
2013-09-25T19:56:40 4607 :Consume 12054508 ジョセフィン Grinder Num(2)
2013-09-25T19:56:43 4608 [Grind(failure) -1] 12054508 ジョセフィン Rouge Coffin+5 attr:Ice(50)
2013-09-25T19:56:43 4609 :Consume 12054508 ジョセフィン Grinder Num(2)
2013-09-25T19:56:46 4610 [Grind(failure) -1] 12054508 ジョセフィン Rouge Coffin+4 attr:Ice(50)
2013-09-25T19:56:46 4611 :Consume 12054508 ジョセフィン Grinder Num(2)
2013-09-25T19:56:49 4612 [Grind(success) +1] 12054508 ジョセフィン Rouge Coffin+5 attr:Ice(50)
2013-09-25T19:56:49 4613 :Consume 12054508 ジョセフィン Grinder Num(2)
2013-09-25T19:56:52 4614 [Grind(success) +1] 12054508 ジョセフィン Rouge Coffin+6 attr:Ice(50)
2013-09-25T19:56:52 4615 :Consume 12054508 ジョセフィン Grinder Num(2)
2013-09-25T19:56:55 4616 [Grind(failure) -1] 12054508 ジョセフィン Rouge Coffin+5 attr:Ice(50)
2013-09-25T19:56:55 4617 :Consume 12054508 ジョセフィン Grinder Num(2)
2013-09-25T19:56:58 4618 [Grind(failure) -0] 12054508 ジョセフィン Rouge Coffin+5 attr:Ice(50)
2013-09-25T19:56:58 4619 :Consume 12054508 ジョセフィン Grinder Num(2)
2013-09-25T19:57:01 4620 [Grind(success) +1] 12054508 ジョセフィン Rouge Coffin+6 attr:Ice(50)
2013-09-25T19:57:01 4621 :Consume 12054508 ジョセフィン Grinder Num(2)
2013-09-25T19:57:04 4622 [Grind(failure) -1] 12054508 ジョセフィン Rouge Coffin+5 attr:Ice(50)
2013-09-25T19:57:04 4623 :Consume 12054508 ジョセフィン Grinder Num(2)
2013-09-25T19:57:07 4624 [Grind(failure) -0] 12054508 ジョセフィン Rouge Coffin+5 attr:Ice(50)
2013-09-25T19:57:07 4625 :Consume 12054508 ジョセフィン Grinder Num(2)
2013-09-25T19:57:10 4626 [Grind(failure) -1] 12054508 ジョセフィン Rouge Coffin+4 attr:Ice(50)
2013-09-25T19:57:10 4627 :Consume 12054508 ジョセフィン Grinder Num(2)
2013-09-25T19:57:13 4628 [Grind(failure) -0] 12054508 ジョセフィン Rouge Coffin+4 attr:Ice(50)
2013-09-25T19:57:13 4629 :Consume 12054508 ジョセフィン Grinder Num(2)
2013-09-25T19:57:16 4630 [Grind(success) +1] 12054508 ジョセフィン Rouge Coffin+5 attr:Ice(50)
2013-09-25T19:57:16 4631 :Consume 12054508 ジョセフィン Grinder Num(2)
2013-09-25T19:57:19 4632 [Grind(success) +1] 12054508 ジョセフィン Rouge Coffin+6 attr:Ice(50)
2013-09-25T19:57:19 4633 :Consume 12054508 ジョセフィン Grinder Num(2)
2013-09-25T19:57:22 4634 [Grind(failure) -1] 12054508 ジョセフィン Rouge Coffin+5 attr:Ice(50)
2013-09-25T19:57:22 4635 :Consume 12054508 ジョセフィン Grinder Num(2)
2013-09-25T19:57:25 4636 [Grind(success) +1] 12054508 ジョセフィン Rouge Coffin+6 attr:Ice(50)
2013-09-25T19:57:25 4637 :Consume 12054508 ジョセフィン Grinder Num(2)
2013-09-25T19:57:28 4638 [Grind(failure) -1] 12054508 ジョセフィン Rouge Coffin+5 attr:Ice(50)
2013-09-25T19:57:28 4639 :Consume 12054508 ジョセフィン Grinder Num(2)
2013-09-25T19:57:31 4640 [Grind(success) +1] 12054508 ジョセフィン Rouge Coffin+6 attr:Ice(50)
2013-09-25T19:57:31 4641 :Consume 12054508 ジョセフィン Grinder Num(2)
2013-09-25T19:57:33 4642 [Grind(failure) -2] 12054508 ジョセフィン Rouge Coffin+4 attr:Ice(50)
2013-09-25T19:57:33 4643 :Consume 12054508 ジョセフィン Grinder Num(2)
2013-09-25T19:57:37 4644 [Grind(failure) -0] 12054508 ジョセフィン Rouge Coffin+4 attr:Ice(50)
2013-09-25T19:57:37 4645 :Consume 12054508 ジョセフィン Grinder Num(2)
2013-09-25T19:57:40 4646 [Grind(success) +1] 12054508 ジョセフィン Rouge Coffin+5 attr:Ice(50)
2013-09-25T19:57:40 4647 :Consume 12054508 ジョセフィン Grinder Num(2)
2013-09-25T19:57:42 4648 [Grind(failure) -0] 12054508 ジョセフィン Rouge Coffin+5 attr:Ice(50)
2013-09-25T19:57:42 4649 :Consume 12054508 ジョセフィン Grinder Num(2)
2013-09-25T19:57:45 4650 [Grind(failure) -0] 12054508 ジョセフィン Rouge Coffin+5 attr:Ice(50)
2013-09-25T19:57:45 4651 :Consume 12054508 ジョセフィン Grinder Num(2)
2013-09-25T19:57:48 4652 [Grind(success) +1] 12054508 ジョセフィン Rouge Coffin+6 attr:Ice(50)
2013-09-25T19:57:48 4653 :Consume 12054508 ジョセフィン Grinder Num(2)
2013-09-25T19:57:51 4654 [Grind(failure) -1] 12054508 ジョセフィン Rouge Coffin+5 attr:Ice(50)
2013-09-25T19:57:51 4655 :Consume 12054508 ジョセフィン Grinder Num(2)
[/SPOILER-BOX]

[TaigaUC]

Yeah, I just blew 800 grinders, a ton of +10%s, a few +5%s and +1s, and around 5 +2s trying to get a Yasminkov 9000M with level 2 unlocked potential to +10.
It kept failing at +5 and less, went back down to +1 at least three times and took about 600 grinders just to get to +9 once.

The stupid thing is I got it from +6 no potential to level 2 potential within around 150 grinders and 2 10% and +2s.

Then I had Vardha unit grinds fail and go backwards -2 many times.
I went from 1000+ grinders to less than 120 just from 3 units and a Yasminkov (all 10 stars). Yay.

[Rexob]

Yeah, I just blew 800 grinders, a ton of +10%s, a few +5%s and +1s, and around 5 +2s trying to get a Yasminkov 9000M with level 2 unlocked potential to +10.
It kept failing at +5 and less, went back down to +1 at least three times and took about 600 grinders just to get to +9 once.

The stupid thing is I got it from +6 no potential to level 2 potential within around 150 grinders and 2 10% and +2s.

Then I had Vardha unit grinds fail and go backwards -2 many times.
I went from 1000+ grinders to less than 120 just from 3 units and a Yasminkov (all 10 stars). Yay.

That sucks :( once I get to +8 I usually use the Grind Lock items on any weapons; granted those cost a lot if you're not getting them from AC scratches.

[TaigaUC]

Flamme Revolver (lv2 potential) from 0 to +10:
306 grinders (900k), 3x10% (157k each), 1x+2, 4x+1.
All of my new campaign bonus grinding items vanished instantly.

Yay, +1% damage increase.
Either I have terrible luck or the higher the potential the less the grinding success chance.

I usually use +1s all the way from +6 but I can't afford to do that anymore.
Instead I just saved them for +9. I always try to use +5% or +10% at +9.

[Ouranos]

wrong thread.

[Rexob]

Flamme Revolver (lv2 potential) from 0 to +10:
306 grinders (900k), 3x10% (157k each), 1x+2, 4x+1.
All of my new campaign bonus grinding items vanished instantly.

Yay, +1% damage increase.
Either I have terrible luck or the higher the potential the less the grinding success chance.

I usually use +1s all the way from +6 but I can't afford to do that anymore.
Instead I just saved them for +9. I always try to use +5% or +10% at +9.

I've done a few 10*s w/o any assistance, but lately since I like the AC Scratches I get quite a few bonuses where I just wait now if there's something special or nice to grind. I had to unlock my Y9K pot3 and grind to +10...was a bit of a chore, and used 7 Grind Locks which I had from scratches, but those sell for 350-425k depending on the market.

[TaigaUC]

Umbra stick from 0 to +10:
139 grinders, 3x +1, 1x +5%.

It's really painful how, after struggling one by one all the way up to +8 or +9, when it starts to fail, it always immediately goes down to +5 or worse within two or three grinds.
I miss the +10% event. It was just right back then.

I'm still waiting for SEGA to remove the -2 and -3 penalties like they said they would... about half a year ago, now?

[Rexob]

Umbra stick from 0 to +10:
139 grinders, 3x +1, 1x +5%.

It's really painful how, after struggling one by one all the way up to +8 or +9, when it starts to fail, it always immediately goes down to +5 or worse within two or three grinds.
I miss the +10% event. It was just right back then.

I'm still waiting for SEGA to remove the -2 and -3 penalties like they said they would... about half a year ago, now?

The -2 for the 10th I can see maybe, but the -3 is really painful...even with -1 I've easily taken things from +9 to +1 in about 20 grinds lol...

[Skyly HUmar]

The gameplay is easy, forgiving, and quick. However, look at the ridiculous drop rates, there is nothing casual about those...

Edit: The game is easily accessible, but to have the top gear requires playing at a top level which is obvious given the ridiculous drop rates and the grinding / affixing probabilities.

NOPE!

The best gear atm can be bought in one form or another, whether you save up for a dragon slayer, or pay for enough ex runs to get yourself a 50% 11* It takes real life money to get what you want, not any form of hardcore gaming.

EDIT: someone who pays and plays casually can easily have better equipment than someone who bleeds into the game is what im trying to say, your efforts don't really matter because no matter how hard you try you gotta remember that you're playing with odds that put SJS hunting to shame.

[Rexob]

NOPE!

The best gear atm can be bought in one form or another, whether you save up for a dragon slayer, or pay for enough ex runs to get yourself a 50% 11* It takes real life money to get what you want, not any form of hardcore gaming.

EDIT: someone who pays and plays casually can easily have better equipment than someone who bleeds into the game is what im trying to say, your efforts don't really matter because no matter how hard you try you gotta remember that you're playing with odds that put SJS hunting to shame.

I'll rephrase - getting the top gear requires paying and/or playing at a top level :-D I know of players who actually farmed their own Y9K...I also know players who just bought one - this is before the welfare W & R EQ.

[SisterPrincess]

Flamme Revolver (lv2 potential) from 0 to +10:
306 grinders (900k), 3x10% (157k each), 1x+2, 4x+1.
All of my new campaign bonus grinding items vanished instantly.

Yay, +1% damage increase.
Either I have terrible luck or the higher the potential the less the grinding success chance.

I usually use +1s all the way from +6 but I can't afford to do that anymore.
Instead I just saved them for +9. I always try to use +5% or +10% at +9.

I'm certain higher latent ability level tend to give you higher than usual penalty for failing. It's definitely apparent during level 3.

[Skyly HUmar]

I'll rephrase - getting the top gear requires paying and/or playing at a top level :-D I know of players who actually farmed their own Y9K...I also know players who just bought one - this is before the welfare W & R EQ.

Ive played for almost 4500 hours, all ive ever done is grind and farm, i have never even had someone in my room find a 10* with a 650 attack req. Its all luck and money.

[strikerhunter]

I'm certain higher latent ability level tend to give you higher than usual penalty for failing. It's definitely apparent during level 3.

Latent has nothing to do with lower grind rates.

[TaigaUC]

Yeah, forget about the higher latent ability thing I suggested.
On another account, I just got a level 3 Yasminkov 9000M from 0 to +10 with only 5 or 6 failures.
Used 3x5%, 3x+2 and 2x+1 (both succeeded).

Damn random number generation.
Proves that one person can be lucky as hell and others will get totally utterly screwed for no reason whatsoever.

[gigawuts]

Yeah, forget about the higher latent ability thing I suggested.
On another account, I just got a level 3 Yasminkov 9000M from 0 to +10 with only 5 or 6 failures.
Used 3x5%, 3x+2 and 2x+1 (both succeeded).

Damn random number generation.
Proves that one person can be lucky as hell and others will get totally utterly screwed for no reason whatsoever.

Which would be fine if success was guaranteed, I guess. All anyone wants is some consistency :-?

I've got steam knuckles that wouldn't grind, and I've got a latria rain I +10ed with 0 failures.

Yes, that's right, I have a latria rain that went 1-2-3-4-5-6-7-8-9-10. With zero failures. No boosts, no protects. One swift series of enter button mashing, on a whim. (This was after my stray blower ate down like 2-3 stacks of grinders in one sitting, I had 45 grinders left and figured why the fuck not - I'll just grind till it fails)

People tryna tell me the RNG isn't bullshit make me guffaw heartily.

edit: That experience made me actually wonder if weapons come with a hidden grind modifier. Some weapons just won't break past +4, even across multiple weeks. Others go straight to 8 and stay there. It could all be random, but it would sure explain the game's propensity for streaks.

[RadiantLegend]

I think some weapons are just going to fail no matter what. Its like the defective one of the batch.

[Walkure]

Food for thought: Even with +5% boost, both taking 200k and taking 2m to get to +10 fall within one standard deviation of the average!

[pkemr4]

surprisingly it helps some. i got a bunch of 10*'s to +10 with relative ease

[Alenoir]

+10'd two 10*s with about the same amount of grinders that it used to take me to +10 one 10*. Gonna say the 5% helped.

Attributing though? Doodoo I have a word with you on that.

[TaigaUC]

The nature of random number generation ensures that some people will be ridiculously rich, and others will be ridiculously poor.
There is no way for the poor to catch up unless they get lucky. By that time, it's too late.
Over time, the rich become richer because the more money you have, the more you can manipulate prices, the more assets you can own, and the more money you can gain from reselling.
As prices go up, the unlucky become even poorer.

The intent of random is to create simple variation, but in the big picture it creates severe imbalance, inconsistency and unfairness.
PSO2 would be a far better game if it had more consistency instead of relying so heavily on random for virtually every single mechanic in the entire game.

I think the map design would probably also benefit from consistency.
I always feel like the current maps feel empty and meaningless. I yearn for the city from the PSO2 internal beta.


surprisingly it helps some. i got a bunch of 10*'s to +10 with relative ease

It does help some, but you can still be unlucky as hell.

[Zorua]

I think some weapons are just going to fail no matter what. Its like the defective one of the batch.

Tell me about it...

This took me about 700k:
[SPOILER-BOX]http://puu.sh/4BfAB
http://puu.sh/4BfAc
http://puu.sh/4BfzP
http://puu.sh/4Bfzw[/SPOILER-BOX]
Already had the fire 50 on the surus before the event.

This used up 500k:
Notice the lack of abilities :sad:
[SPOILER-BOX]http://puu.sh/4Bfom[/SPOILER-BOX]