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View Full Version : An idea to change the Weapon Camo system



Takatsuki
Oct 26, 2013, 08:21 PM
I think it's kind of silly that you can only camouflage weapons with specific weapon camo items, instead of being able to change the look of the weapon to whatever other weapon you want. So I thought of an idea to change it, and also fix another little issue while we're at it.

First off, Doodoo would get a new option, the Weapon Camo option. You would take any weapon as a base (the one that you want it to inherit the stats of), then pick a weapon that you want it to adapt the look of, and then to perform the camouflage, you will need 5 Synthesizers per * of rarity for the item you want to take the appearance of (so an 8* weapon would require 40 Synthesizers, but a 4* would only require 20), and you would also need a Camo Pass. It would also never fail.

So how do you get Camo Passes? First off, when the system is implemented, each player gets 1 free Camo Pass. Then, you can take your old Weapon Camo items and exchange them for 1 Camo Pass, but you can also use those in Weapon Camo Synthesis instead of a regular weapon so that your weapon will take upon that appearance, and when you use old Weapon Camo items, it doesn't cost a pass.

Other than that, they will be obtained from the Recycle Shop by trading in something like AC items, and you could also get them from things like Bingo Cards and other special events.

But what if you decide you don't want that look anymore? Well, Doodoo will also offer you the service of dismantling the camo, and returning your weapon back to it's original state, but you don't get your Camo Pass, Synthesizers, material weapon or meseta back.

But as I said, this solves another little problem - worthless rares.

How many times have you gotten a rare weapon, only to find that it's only worth 1,000 meseta on the player shops? This system would make these rare weapons which have been determined to be worthless rise in value... at least the cool-looking ones. Then players can make more meseta off all the junky useless rares that they pick up.

Thoughts?

TaigaUC
Oct 27, 2013, 05:07 AM
Just about any other similar game has a better weapon camo system than PSO2's

Saffran
Oct 27, 2013, 05:51 AM
The camo system is fine, as long you don't use it...

TaigaUC
Oct 27, 2013, 07:42 AM
That's kinda like saying PSO2 is fine, as long as you don't play it.

Sp-24
Oct 27, 2013, 07:51 AM
It's true, though. Haven't you noticed that the majority of people who haven't played PSO2 have no problems with grinding, affixing, rare drop rates and bugs in this game? Somehow getting that audience to buy some AC would mean striking Klondike for Sega.

PokeminMaster
Oct 27, 2013, 08:16 AM
I've played PSO2 since day one of the full release, and I've had no overwhelming problems with grinding, affixing, or drops... I honestly don't really see what the problem is, it's not like the chances are so devastatingly low that they never happen...

But more on the topic at hand, I would much rather have a weapon camo system that works the way; it would help clear out my Storage (I have some kind of issue where I can't get rid of rares, no matter how pathetic) XD

Saffran
Oct 27, 2013, 11:40 AM
Well, the camo system might not be anyone's taste, but as far as gameplay goes it's utterly useless anyway. The only people it could really have any relevance for are the people playing it for cosplay, photos, etc. I'm sure many players sell their camos to NPCs straight away...

UnLucky
Oct 28, 2013, 03:19 AM
It's an excellent idea, but you're definitely not the first person to suggest it. It's obviously way better than what we have now, and it's pretty much what a lot of other games already have. Hell, it's exactly what everyone expected the camo system to be since the beginning.

TaigaUC
Oct 28, 2013, 05:12 AM
I've played PSO2 since day one of the full release, and I've had no overwhelming problems with grinding, affixing, or drops... I honestly don't really see what the problem is, it's not like the chances are so devastatingly low that they never happen...

I've been playing since open beta. Depending on what it is, there ARE things so devastatingly low that they never happen.
For example, my friend and I have done over 700 to 1000 Elder runs and we've never seen any of his 11 or 12 stars.
Some other examples, like I got my first Ardilow, Twilight Rune and Talnada drops over a year after I first started playing (and in some cases, already tried farming for them).

But the point here is that the game would be much better without stuff like, grinding and affixing failing constantly for literally hours on end (I'm not even exaggerating).
It's is not only stressful, but a huge waste of time.
That's not even including the amount of time it takes to earn the millions that instantly vanish with no returns, just because you're unlucky.
At the same time, people standing next to you might instantly succeed. I feel especially bad for the people who spend real life money only to have the RNG transform it into nothing.

Upgrade systems should not be equivalent to gambling in reality.
Imagine if unlocking upgrades in Batman Arkham series or Deus Ex HR had a random chance to fail and required you to level up all over again for another chance to fail.
There are always many ways to do something, and SEGA went with some of the crappiest methods for virtually every system in PSO2.
Some people just accept these kinds of problems, telling themselves "it could be worse", but they don't seem to realize that things could also be a hell of a lot better.

We should always aim higher, not lower.
Anyway, my apologies for going off-topic.



But more on the topic at hand, I would much rather have a weapon camo system that works the way; it would help clear out my Storage (I have some kind of issue where I can't get rid of rares, no matter how pathetic) XD

Yeah, there are too many rares that have no purpose. I actually bought some rares I wanted to turn into camos, before they revealed how terrible the actual system is.
I often see JP people complaining about damn ugly most of the powerful weapons are, and how the low level weapons look so much better. If only SEGA understood.

Or as I've said, they probably do understand. I think the weapon camo system is just there to give us another layer of "content" to fix intentionally ugly equipment.
It's like how other games have outfits with rainbow clown color schemes, and the only way to fix them is wasting months dealing with ridiculous dye systems.
Glad that's not as common anymore.

At some point, we just have to say "hey, screw this crap."
And I think a lot of people have already done that with PSO2, which is a shame.
But it's not OUR fault.

Yrsofexp
Oct 28, 2013, 05:53 AM
Playing this game for 2-3 months, and while Dudu (or Moncia) annoy me with their comments on how something failed or even downgraded, this is incredibly mild as far as enhancing goes.

For example, enhancing in Elsword (another game I played), the weapons/armors could actually break if you tried to enhance it beyond +6. The only risk reductions you had were ores (which prevented downgrading, but does not prevent breaking nor does it increase success rates). If your weapon did break, you need a blessed scroll to restore it so it can be usable again.

Now heres the catch; both ores and scrolls are exclusive to the cash shop. If they ever decide to give you something for free, it's only going to be 1 or 2 ores and I swear these have an increased rate on how often items break, making you have to cash to be able to use that piece of equipment. And it's not cheap either...IIRC ores were like $2 each, while a scroll costs a whooping $7.50. At least in PSO, the most you'd waste is ingame currency and you still have access to FUN for the lower-end of risk reductions.

As for weapon camos...I just wish there were some BETTER looking ones. The selection we have just really emphasizes on how useless the camo system is.

KuroKanden
Oct 28, 2013, 07:28 AM
PSO2's upgrading system is fairly forgiving for a F2P model.

Let's take Vindictus for instance. In order to craft an attack speed set with Taonu Twins I would first require the appropiate pieces of equipment that have the appropiate stats on them, which is all down on RNG. Then I'd have to upgrade them from +1~15, which from +9~15 there is a chance that I'd have the item destoryed. Oh, don't forget those nonexistant ability scrolls that only drops off specific bosses at abyssmal rates, those STILL have a chance to fail. Of course it going to such extremes isn't required for the average player, but they would be if you were to attempt soloing raid bosses on your own.

Plus as of now these upgrades (affixing, really) are'nt really mandatory for you to tackle content (as of now, we'll see 12-man soon). a 2-slotter may perform just as well as a 4-slotter if he/she plays well. ; unless you're willing to spend dozens more for minuscule stat gains, more power to you. People really should'nt be complaining about the odds when they're aware about the risk vs. reward. As for me, I treat it as more of a luxury, having to 5-slot something could be an achievement for me, call me a masochist if you will.

Again, its all down to the golden rule in every MMO - Time vs money and perhaps abit of luck.

...I digress.

OT : If anything, I'd like them to implement TERA's camo system, replacing any piece of a equipment over another but still retaining the original stats. Probably a distant dream, but I'd like to see it happen.

Z-0
Oct 28, 2013, 08:06 AM
Remember folks: If there is something worse, [insert thing] is completely okay and being dissatisfied with it is just being a crybaby.

Sp-24
Oct 28, 2013, 08:53 AM
Indeed. I'm so happy to have herpes, when syphilis and AIDS are so much worse.

Yrsofexp
Oct 28, 2013, 09:00 AM
Remember folks: If there is something worse, [insert thing] is completely okay and being dissatisfied with it is just being a crybaby.

Not saying that something isn't worth complaining about shouldn't be (otherwise, problems would never be resolved), but IMO the grinding/affixing here isn't enough for me to have gripes about. Again it's because I've been in games that are much worse that are also F2P. Ability Affixing is more if you're concerned with min/maxing. They could've done it a lot worse where IIRC in PSU, items could actually break when grinding and you needed to cash to fix it.

gigawuts
Oct 28, 2013, 09:00 AM
Remember folks: If there is something worse, is completely okay and being dissatisfied with it is just being a crybaby.

If you're not careful they might think you're agreeing with them.

edit:

Not saying that something isn't worth complaining about shouldn't be (otherwise, problems would never be resolved), but IMO the grinding/affixing here isn't enough for [I]me to have gripes about. Again it's because I've been in games that are much worse that are also F2P. Ability Affixing is more if you're concerned with min/maxing. They could've done it a lot worse where IIRC in PSU, items could actually break when grinding and you needed to cash to fix it.

My favorite streak, since I know the exact odds, was attempting a power III/quartz soul/random fodder for dark wings way back when those were fairly new.

60%/50%/100%

This went on to fail 16 consecutive times.

16.

The odds are 30% each attempt.

The chance of having 16 consecutive failures is 0.33%.

This is far from the first or last time something like that has happened. At the end of all that I still came up completely empty handed.

Tell me some more about how "at least your weapon doesn't break."

edit: Oh right, back to the point. Yeah, that system sounds pretty much ideal and I've been expecting it for a while. I'm surprised camo passes aren't already in the AC scratch rotation, even as a limited item like the atk boost affix items.

Yrsofexp
Oct 28, 2013, 09:22 AM
If you're not careful they might think you're agreeing with them.

edit:


My favorite streak, since I know the exact odds, was attempting a power III/quartz soul/random fodder for dark wings way back when those were fairly new.

60%/50%/100%

This went on to fail 16 consecutive times.

16.

The odds are 30% each attempt.

The chance of having 16 consecutive failures is 0.33%.

This is far from the first or last time something like that has happened. At the end of all that I still came up completely empty handed.

Tell me some more about how "at least your weapon doesn't break."

I do agree that its damn frustrating if your affixes don't work (had a 100/90% fail on me once...), especially with the elaborate setups required to get to three equips with 3 abilties you want to maximize your chances, only to have it bail out and end up short handed on one-two abilties being carried over. All of that gets pretty frustrating when you wind up back at step 1 or even step 0. The thing im getting at is, the game has the decency to not slap on something like requiring 500 AC to even attempt the affixes with those odds in the first place, or having a 40%~ chance of your grinded equipment being unusable and unsellable unless you fork over an extra 700 AC to make it usable, or just discard it.

Not saying it won't be frustrating, but you have to look at the fact that you're trying to min/max here, and RNG is a constant factor for that in F2Ps (either that, or forking over excessive money turning it into P2W)

OT: While the option to convert camo weapon into passes, there should also be a way to reuse some of those camos. Some of them are actually nice (the assault rifle from cougar being one example). Granted you could just turn them into camo foddlers (statless equips) after the fact, but the initial market's going to be flooded with passes just because of how much camo there are (worthless ones usually.... looking at you D92). Then theres also the holiday camos. Would they be rewarded with a camo pass on top of the camo foddler?

gigawuts
Oct 28, 2013, 09:26 AM
That's not decency dude, that's just a business tactic. They keep these things free so all the non-paying players can continue to attempt it while using items sold by people who have bought AC to spend on things like shops and scratch tickets.

They're not keeping it "free" out of the goodness of their hearts. They're promoting what is essentially officially sponsored RMT.

Yrsofexp
Oct 28, 2013, 09:40 AM
That's not decency dude, that's just a business tactic. They keep these things free so all the non-paying players can continue to attempt it while using items sold by people who have bought AC to spend on things like shops and scratch tickets.

They're not keeping it "free" out of the goodness of their hearts. They're promoting what is essentially officially sponsored RMT.

Should make another topic because I don't want to derail but at the same time engage.

There's no inherent "need" for players to invest AC, at least from what I see. The most you'd get is better affix/grind chances and reduction on downgrades. You're never really put in a state where you have to spend AC to attempt to progress (or in some cases, reacquire the 10/11* weapon to reattempt grinding, but thats a bit extreme). When you start requiring AC to even touch ability affixing, thats when it gets to your example.

On the side note, I just came up with something on the weapon camo thing. Instead of getting rid of the weapon camo thing entirely, we keep how it functions (you equip a camo to overwrite your current skin). But taking the idea from the OP, you can *make* your own equip camo through the use of passes, following the same rule as the camo synthesis. All camo on this point would be untradable, but you can recycle in...lets say 3 or so camos for a camo pass.

At the same time, theres a way to get rid of the excessive junk weapon camos with the recycling while having the option to keep existing camo you like.

gigawuts
Oct 28, 2013, 09:54 AM
Should make another topic because I don't want to derail but at the same time engage.

There's no inherent "need" for players to invest AC, at least from what I see. The most you'd get is better affix/grind chances and reduction on downgrades. You're never really put in a state where you have to spend AC to attempt to progress (or in some cases, reacquire the 10/11* weapon to reattempt grinding, but thats a bit extreme). When you start requiring AC to even touch ability affixing, thats when it gets to your example.

On the side note, I just came up with something on the weapon camo thing. Instead of getting rid of the weapon camo thing entirely, we keep how it functions (you equip a camo to overwrite your current skin). But taking the idea from the OP, you can *make* your own equip camo through the use of passes, following the same rule as the camo synthesis. All camo on this point would be untradable, but you can recycle in...lets say 3 or so camos for a camo pass.

At the same time, theres a way to get rid of the excessive junk weapon camos with the recycling while having the option to keep existing camo you like.

No, we don't need another topic since the topic has been discussed to death. You're also clearly doing mental gymnastics to entirely miss what it is that I'm saying.

You're trying to say that this system not requiring every individual to pay money is somehow a gesture of decency. I am correcting you by telling you it is just another business model meant to make more money, on the hopes that the swathes of free players and their created demand for AC items will make AC items sufficiently valuable to entice more players to buy them.

You then, as many do, completely ignore that and say more or less "yeah but people can do it for free so what's the problem? you never absolutely required anyway" I am not stating a problem. I am stating a fact. This is a business model. This is no different than a credit card company offering zero interest for 6 months on new cards - it is not decency, it is a business model designed to hook more people than the competition. Attempting to ascribe good intent to the business world is only fooling yourself.

Believe what you will, but be prepared to be treated as a commodity if you actually believe Sega is doing anything but trying to make more money than their competition.

Yrsofexp
Oct 28, 2013, 10:10 AM
I get where you're getting at, I think. I don't have any intents on loading up on AC ever, but I can't say the same for other people.

If im reading it correctly, the option that people can obtain AC items from other players may entice them to get AC themselves. Maybe "decency" was the wrong word, but I was trying to bring up the fact that it's a better way of presenting the game and the AC aspect of it instead of just pissing on the players with a mechanic that they can't get around without AC, regardless of where it's from (themselves or the community).

I do know that bottom line they want money from their players, because they kinda need it to stay afloat in the first place. But if they present it in the wrong manner to their customers, it's all going down the drain. That's been the case for a few games where they'd actually change or add an entire new mechanic just to introduce another form of cashing, and I don't think Sega has crossed that threshold...yet.

gigawuts
Oct 28, 2013, 10:24 AM
Yes, that's exactly right. This system is designed to gouge cash out of players' pockets just like every other system - the only difference is who, and how. Sega are appealing to a more casual audience who refuse to pay the microtransactions to attempt weapon modification.

And I agree, it's a much better presentation of the F2P model.

I just hope when they do implement Camo Passes that they don't do it by making them cost X number of AC scratch items like the 20% affix booster and ->7 Grind Skip. I'm not fond of that system, but it's just one of several ways methods they give to the mass of non-paying players to create a demand for AC items.

Yrsofexp
Oct 28, 2013, 11:08 AM
Yes, that's exactly right. This system is designed to gouge cash out of players' pockets just like every other system - the only difference is who, and how. Sega are appealing to a more casual audience who refuse to pay the microtransactions to attempt weapon modification.

And I agree, it's a much better presentation of the F2P model.

I just hope when they do implement Camo Passes that they don't do it by making them cost X number of AC scratch items like the 20% affix booster and ->7 Grind Skip. I'm not fond of that system, but it's just one of several ways methods they give to the mass of non-paying players to create a demand for AC items.

In the case of camos though, it does give them a bit of individual value since you'd be able to trade in quantities of it for a pass. It'd also give you a way to recycle unwanted camos if you decided you don't want it anymore (since you wouldn't be able to trade it with other players).

Also, I was referring to trading in X amount of weapon camos for a pass if that was interpetted wrong earlier. Not trading in AC items/costumes

Sp-24
Oct 28, 2013, 11:26 AM
Not trading in AC items/costumes
That's exactly how Sega would handle it, though. What's the point to bother with an entirely new weapon camo system if it's locked within itself and doesn't bring any money outside of some 10☆ sales? If people didn't buy premium to use the shop in the first place, or to be able to buy 10☆ weapons now that anything below is hopelessly outclassed, then it's rather unlikely that the ability to make your weapon look different would attract a sizeable crowd compared to what they have already.

The only other option I can think of is making 3 day weapon camo passes a FUN item, and a permanent one to be available from AC Shop.

Yrsofexp
Oct 28, 2013, 12:25 PM
Well passes as in how the 10* weapon/unit passes work, not in the sense of premium or shop passes.

In order to get a weapon camo of your choice, you'd need a camo pass and a weapon you want to make into a camo, so something like

[Camo Pass] + [Weapon] = [Weapon Camo] + [Weapon]

The resulting weapon camo would function the way we have it now, you'd equip it and it overwrites the skin of whatever you have equipped. The pass is used up and is now gone, but the weapon isn't. By doing this, you'd need to have the original weapon first (giving useless rares a purpose). This would follow the same rule as binding a pre-10* rare so you'd be unable to trade.

What I don't like about the base equipment being used up for making a camo is that if it's a 10* or higher, it's be a hefty waste unless you make it an exception to the rule.

And back to the previous suggestion, you'd obtain a pass by trading in 3 [Weapon Camo]. The weapon camos themselves are not tradable. The pass is only good making one weapon camo

Terrence
Oct 28, 2013, 01:06 PM
I think it's kind of silly that you can only camouflage weapons with specific weapon camo items.
I think it would be worse if we couldn't conceal weapons at all, don't you think ? :-?

MetalDude
Oct 28, 2013, 01:07 PM
I think it would be worse if we couldn't conceal weapons at all, don't you think ? :-?

Well no fucking shit. The point is that the base system put in place is pretty dumb to begin with. Arguing that it'd be a bummer if it wasn't there at all is irrelevant.

gigawuts
Oct 28, 2013, 01:15 PM
I think it would be worse if we couldn't conceal weapons at all, don't you think ? :-?

Yes and no. This system's existence makes it much less likely for a good system to be implemented. When players complain Sega will merely say this system already exists, it isn't worth the time or resources to overhaul, and then add a couple camos again.

That, as opposed to other systems such as being able to select any item without any modification requirements and simply lay it over what you're actually using.

Sp-24
Oct 28, 2013, 01:17 PM
That, as opposed to other systems such as being able to select any item without any modification requirements and simply lay it over what you're actually using.
After you pay 300 AC, you mean.

gigawuts
Oct 28, 2013, 01:18 PM
That's an actual system in a game I've played though. It was totally free. I can't remember which game it was, maybe Guild Wars 2?

Sp-24
Oct 28, 2013, 01:25 PM
Something tells me that it wasn't a free to play game, though. And definitely not something published by Sega or companies like Aeria Games.

Gardios
Oct 28, 2013, 01:54 PM
That's an actual system in a game I've played though. It was totally free. I can't remember which game it was, maybe Guild Wars 2?

Guild Wars 2 has the items for armour/weapon camo in their cash shop, but they pretty much throw them at your face in game as well. That and you can exchange gold for cash shop currency anyway...

pkemr4
Oct 28, 2013, 02:30 PM
$ega should just copy n paste the Spirit infusion system from shin megami tensi: imagine online.

wheres you can change weapons appearances and stats. like give the new ZRA TMG's. yasminkovs appearence and have the potential of the flamme revolver and the stats of pandora extreme.