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View Full Version : I was crazy enough to go 10 star farming yesturday...



Maninbluejumpsuit
Nov 1, 2013, 03:12 PM
Used a one day premium ticket for premium drinks rare droprate up large, 20% lucky rise, 250% RDB, 100% tri, while we had 50% rare drop boost to all quests yesterday. Mained FI.

Got 3 http://pso2.swiki.jp/index.php?%E8%92%BC%E9%BB%92%E3%81%AE%E3%83%8B%E3% 83%A7%E3%82%A4%E3%83%9C%E3%82%A6 (all untekked. Killed them with one of the gunslashes with lvl3 fortunate omen/lucky rise)

I was going for http://pso2.swiki.jp/index.php?%E3%83%A9%E3%83%B3%E3%82%B0%E3%83%AA%E3% 83%83%E3%82%BF%E3%83%BC

What I'm asking is... considering the results, maybe my chances are good of getting one soon-ish are good if I keep at it?

gigawuts
Nov 1, 2013, 03:19 PM
Just check the item log ingame to see the drops, and compare.

BKB: 153 in the last 7 days
Langolier Langliter: So few it's not even listed, meaning 6 or less

So you've probably got a ways to go.

Maninbluejumpsuit
Nov 1, 2013, 03:54 PM
Apparently it's 229 bkbs to 15 langliters in transmizer takedown, though.

Same percentage of sparlyze appearances relatively speaking, but likely more were killed. Still demoralizing though, but it's the best use of boosts I have right now...

TaigaUC
Nov 1, 2013, 10:46 PM
I haven't seen a single of the new 10 stars drop yet.
Well, I think Dagash Wand may have been one of them, but nobody wants that.

I've never seen that nyoibo drop at all.

Coatl
Nov 2, 2013, 01:12 AM
You can at least get one *10 a day if you do trtick or treat or MP. Pretty impossible to farm top tier equipment though, in some cases.

Zyrusticae
Nov 2, 2013, 01:21 AM
Pretty much none of the good stuff came from me actively hunting it, really. My Amaterasu was a random drop, my Agni Bazooka was a random drop... come to think of it, pretty much nothing else has dropped for me that's actually high-end. Everything else was from me buying it with a 10* weapon pass (usually from an Elder weapon turn-in).

So in about 1500 hours of actual gameplay I've had two decent 10* drops. Sounds about right...

Luvsic
Nov 2, 2013, 07:18 AM
I've been farming a few different weapons for the last 5 months, not counting the rest of my time with the game. All I do when I log on is hunt and to prove that, I'm so broke I can't even afford mates. Its kind of sad that in my 1+ year of playing I have literally, never found a 10 star that I actually needed. I use the best 9 stars for each weapon type. So if this doesn't give you an idea of the drops then I don't know what would. Also I am pretty sure being premium secretly increases your chance at drops but that might just be me being silly.

Maninbluejumpsuit
Nov 2, 2013, 06:37 PM
Also I am pretty sure being premium secretly increases your chance at drops but that might just be me being silly.

Not exactly a secret. Premium drinks for 7k meseta grant "rare droprate up (large)" in addition to the stat boost.

Also, it's not so much that I'm that poor, it's just that I want really expensive things, and I feel like if I tried, I could get a rare worth ~50mil before I do enough tacos to make that much.

Sp-24
Nov 2, 2013, 07:10 PM
You'll get those 50 millions faster with a premium anyway. Having access to the shop at all times, coupled with premium storage to fit all that affix fodder that the shop couldn't hold, really speeds up your imaginary income.

Myriarch
Nov 2, 2013, 08:24 PM
Would you like the simple answer or the difficult answer?

Simple
The percentage is very low[/SPOILER-BOX]

Difficult
[SPOILER-BOX]well it depends, our finest research monkeys are hard at work trying to figure out the answer too but its either [SPOILER]0.09013% or banana.[/SPOILER-BOX]

TaigaUC
Nov 2, 2013, 10:11 PM
So in about 1500 hours of actual gameplay I've had two decent 10* drops. Sounds about right...

5 characters here. 6427 total hours of "gameplay".
I spent a lot of those hours idling, and some hours overlapped (multi-boxing).
Still, what a fat waste of time.

I don't understand how people even get the 10 stars worth 60 million.
I've never seen a single one of those.

The only rares I've gotten worth over 10 million were 3 Amaterasus, and that took a lot of XQ farming (something like 60+ tickets) and with three computers at once.
Of course, the price dropped immediately after I got them, so I ended up getting 4m to 15m for them (fully upgraded and affixed) instead of 25m+.

The next best rare I got was probably a Yasminkov when it was worth 5m.
I can't recall anything else.

Needless to say, I'm sick of farming for rares.
Probably wouldn't be as bad if SOMETHING worthwhile dropped on every attempt.
PSO2 is probably the only game I've played where useless rubbish drops 99% of the time.

Railkune
Nov 3, 2013, 08:37 AM
6427 total hours of "gameplay".


Right then. This is where I stop bothering with rares and just farm XQ stones.

eharima
Nov 3, 2013, 08:42 AM
Apart from the name, I think the drop rate% are the only other thing PSO2 has in common with PSO lel

gigawuts
Nov 3, 2013, 08:45 AM
Yeah, maybe v1. Hunting even the most common decent rares is like hunting a TJS, offline, without the CCA quests.

Macman
Nov 3, 2013, 11:46 PM
Its kind of sad that in my 1+ year of playing I have literally, never found a 10 star that I actually needed.
Out of curiosity, have you ever found a single 10*, whether it was something you wanted or not?

Honestly I've pretty much come with a statement that I repeatedly use to describe this game: PSO2 is a game that does not reward effort.

The harder you try to get something, the less likely you are to get it, and the more likely people around you are to get it in front of you. So many times I've had rares I was thinking about in the back of my head while killing a certain monster, only for the monster to drop the item for the dude next to me in the party.

Off the top of my head this list includes 2 Frigands, 2 Gur Bazkas, Dio Rakuruikou, 2 Mine Bunkers, Countless Dista units, and a Guld Milla.

deahamlet
Nov 4, 2013, 01:16 AM
Out of curiosity, have you ever found a single 10*, whether it was something you wanted or not?

Honestly I've pretty much come with a statement that I repeatedly use to describe this game: PSO2 is a game that does not reward effort.

The harder you try to get something, the less likely you are to get it, and the more likely people around you are to get it in front of you. So many times I've had rares I was thinking about in the back of my head while killing a certain monster, only for the monster to drop the item for the dude next to me in the party.

Off the top of my head this list includes 2 Frigands, 2 Gur Bazkas, Dio Rakuruikou, 2 Mine Bunkers, Countless Dista units, and a Guld Milla.

It's true. I had 2 Holy Rays drop for me while helping a guildie farm for one. He said "F-it" and bought his. Then it dropped for him, LOL, but nobody was buying cause SH was the next day.

Sp-24
Nov 4, 2013, 03:18 AM
Out of curiosity, have you ever found a single 10*, whether it was something you wanted or not?

Honestly I've pretty much come with a statement that I repeatedly use to describe this game: PSO2 is a game that does not reward effort.

The harder you try to get something, the less likely you are to get it, and the more likely people around you are to get it in front of you. So many times I've had rares I was thinking about in the back of my head while killing a certain monster, only for the monster to drop the item for the dude next to me in the party.

Off the top of my head this list includes 2 Frigands, 2 Gur Bazkas, Dio Rakuruikou, 2 Mine Bunkers, Countless Dista units, and a Guld Milla.
Of course PSO2 doesn't require effort. It's, quite literally, a lazy cash grab. If you could actually achieve anything in it without at least buying Premium and, ideally, also some AC Scratch, what would have been the point in making it free in the first place?

This is the sad truth of "Famous Name Online" games - they only exist to milk the franchise. Making you enjoy them is rarely even a priority, and when it is, you are supposed to buy the privilege to do so.

Zyrusticae
Nov 4, 2013, 11:58 AM
This is the sad truth of "Famous Name Online" games - they only exist to milk the franchise. Making you enjoy them is rarely even a priority, and when it is, you are supposed to buy the privilege to do so.
Well, no, that's not exactly true. They need the game to be at least fun enough to keep you as a customer long-term, and if they can't do that the game is already dead in the water.

The fact that the game is still surviving (with a decently large player base) is a testament to that.

Of course, its number one reason for existing is to make money, like every other business ever, so that's no surprise to anyone. The problem is when it's a little too obvious that it's a cash grab, not that it IS a cash grab. The better they hide it, the better their relationship with their customers...

UnLucky
Nov 4, 2013, 09:42 PM
What I'm asking is... considering the results, maybe my chances are good of getting one soon-ish are good if I keep at it?

Well, the item you got is a VH drop worth 170k

The one you want is SH only and worth 30m

If price were the only indication of rarity, you'd need a good 176 Ebony Nyoibo's before you can expect to find one Ranglitter.

If we assume the distribution of 229:15 precisely corresponds to their respective drop rates, you should get the item you want after about 15 of the one you don't want.


But you only have 3.

Of course, it could drop for you in the next ten minutes. Or you could keep hunting it for years and never get one, even in the new difficulty where everyone else is getting tens of them and they're worth beans.

Shad0owdruid
Nov 4, 2013, 10:11 PM
Would you like the simple answer or the difficult answer?

Simple
The percentage is very low[/SPOILER-BOX]

Difficult
[SPOILER-BOX]well it depends, our finest research monkeys are hard at work trying to figure out the answer too but its either [SPOILER]0.09013% or banana.[/SPOILER-BOX]

LOL! that made my day xD

Shad0owdruid
Nov 4, 2013, 10:22 PM
IMO the best way to get good 10* weapon is to not search them :) well...working for me !!

Luvsic
Nov 5, 2013, 08:05 AM
Out of curiosity, have you ever found a single 10*, whether it was something you wanted or not?

Honestly I've pretty much come with a statement that I repeatedly use to describe this game: PSO2 is a game that does not reward effort.

The harder you try to get something, the less likely you are to get it, and the more likely people around you are to get it in front of you. So many times I've had rares I was thinking about in the back of my head while killing a certain monster, only for the monster to drop the item for the dude next to me in the party.

Off the top of my head this list includes 2 Frigands, 2 Gur Bazkas, Dio Rakuruikou, 2 Mine Bunkers, Countless Dista units, and a Guld Milla.
I have found a few 10 stars, sadly none of them sell for more than 1k. I know I haven't put in nearly as much time as some of you guys but 90% of my time has been farming, im not even max level and as I said I almost have no money because lately all I do is hunt hunt hunt. I'm pretty much done. Stuck with 9stars and I feel I can't fully enjoy the game like I would like. Sorry for late reply.

Avereth CAST
Nov 5, 2013, 08:52 PM
Luvsic most of us are in the same situation having to settle for stone shop 10 stars and generally never finding anything usable or sellable.

I managed to get miraculously lucky finally back when there were Coast boosts before SH came out and got a Haze back and Iblis Blood the same day which I sold before both had crashed to being worthless.

But that's the only time I have made money off 10 stars with 2000 hours put in.
But seriously this game is easy even with 9 stars. Lots of 9 stars are actually pretty strong. There are also very strong stone trades for AQ running that you could be using if you get some AQs going.

ArcaneTechs
Nov 5, 2013, 08:56 PM
Luvsic most of us are in the same situation having to settle for stone shop 10 stars and generally never finding anything usable or sellable.

I managed to get miraculously lucky finally back when there were Coast boosts before SH came out and got a Haze back and Iblis Blood the same day which I sold before both had crashed to being worthless.

But that's the only time I have made money off 10 stars with 2000 hours put in.
But seriously this game is easy even with 9 stars. Lots of 9 stars are actually pretty strong. There are also very strong stone trades for AQ running that you could be using if you get some AQs going.

Iblis Blood right in front of my face too >_>

also, Agito obtained only within the first 45mins of Coast when it was released, didn't even know what dropped it at the time, was surprised I got something I wanted/ didnt know where to get it at the same time

Lets face it, hard work for pso2 rarely and i mean rarely pays off and i hate seeing ppl get the rares im looking for when im hunting for them in my party which is why i solo when i hunt now, one less stressful thing to see

Evangelion X.XX
Nov 5, 2013, 09:44 PM
In order to really enjoy PSO2, I think one needs to have real life money on one level or another and afford Premium (a one day Premium Pass doesn't really cut it); one doesn't have to get involve with AC Scratches, but at least Premium.

I seriously cannot imagine how anyone can just farm for a specific item for weeks and weeks; I think it's infinitely better to just buy the darn thing, and therefore move on with one's life.

To Kril-San: bro, you are so lucky, I've been hunting coast, like seriously forever, for an Agito (at the time I was using a Lambda Lacruico) until SH came out. Right now, I'm using Sasunoguren, but that's only because I've decided to just cut my losses (I'm very unlucky at farming) and bought one for 45m about two weeks ago on Player's Shop; there's absolutely no way in God's-abandoned-hell am I going to farm quartz for one.... absolutely no way... it'll take a life time...

ArcaneTechs
Nov 5, 2013, 09:57 PM
To Kril-San: bro, you are so lucky, I've been hunting coast, like seriously forever, for an Agito (at the time I was using a Lambda Lacruico) until SH came out. Right now, I'm using Sasunoguren, but that's only because I've decided to just cut my losses (I'm very unlucky at farming) and bought one for 45m about two weeks ago on Player's Shop; there's absolutely no way in God's-abandoned-hell am I going to farm quartz for one.... absolutely no way... it'll take a life time...

Thanks dude and ya i know how you feel man, I want that Katana but I sure as hell know I won't get it with a weeks worth of hunting, I love fighting Quartz since him and EX feel like they're the only ones that give me somewhat of a challenge to fight but man I'll probably see like 5 Dragon Slayers drop for me long before I get Susano and end up buying it sometime down the road.

Now I'm hoping Seabed has some nice katana's dropping there, though I'm sure those will probably be abyssmal too

Maninbluejumpsuit
Nov 5, 2013, 10:10 PM
In order to really enjoy PSO2, I think one needs to have real life money on one level or another and afford Premium (a one day Premium Pass doesn't really cut it); one doesn't have to get involve with AC Scratches, but at least Premium.

I like this f2p model since it isn't pay to win, nor is it necessary to buy anything, especially with the free 2nd character slot now. The RNG is BS though...


I seriously cannot imagine how anyone can just farm for a specific item for weeks and weeks; I think it's infinitely better to just buy the darn thing, and therefore move on with one's life.

To Kril-San: bro, you are so lucky, I've been hunting coast, like seriously forever, for an Agito (at the time I was using a Lambda Lacruico) until SH came out. Right now, I'm using Sasunoguren, but that's only because I've decided to just cut my losses (I'm very unlucky at farming) and bought one for 45m about two weeks ago on Player's Shop; there's absolutely no way in God's-abandoned-hell am I going to farm quartz for one.... absolutely no way... it'll take a life time...

Ultimately I want a susanoguren, but sparlyzes are easier to kill as a FI compared to SH quartz as a BR...

Sp-24
Nov 6, 2013, 01:12 AM
I like this f2p model since it isn't pay to win, nor is it necessary to buy anything, especially with the free 2nd character slot now. The RNG is BS though...
It is leaning further and further towards pay to win. I could agree that it wasn't that before, but now that 9☆ have no hope of ever catching up to 10☆ weapons, and 11☆ not only don't ever drop, but are also getting outclassed by 10☆ stuff, and premium users having a clear edge over free players with new drinks?

Maninbluejumpsuit
Nov 6, 2013, 01:20 AM
It is leaning further and further towards pay to win. I could agree that it wasn't that before, but now that 9☆ have no hope of ever catching up to 10☆ weapons, and 11☆ not only don't ever drop, but are also getting outclassed by 10☆

Fair enough. I'd say the closest thing to throwing free users a bone are the titles for XQs awarding 3 large stones, and the pyroxene weapons that require a 9* prerequisite.

Maybe SH AQs would fix it ^^;

UnLucky
Nov 6, 2013, 01:48 AM
I'm waiting for them to give out 1d premium tickets in events/titles. Until then, 10* trading is definitely pay-to-win.

I'd like to see more 9* turn-ins for all weapon types and trash 11*s for 50%ing. Was hoping the "same type" element grind would retain the old system, not this +1% pittance we ended up with. It basically means premium users can easily 50% any 10* whereas free players have to get insanely lucky or spend a ton of time and/or meseta. Like a disproportionate amount, way more than is reasonable to say "but you can get everything for free!"

Wouldn't be so bad with +10% element tickets, but Sega made a typical executive decision on that one.

Maninbluejumpsuit
Nov 6, 2013, 03:18 PM
Quartz dragon day is coming. If I'm reading it right, we're getting the 50% rare drop boost+400% from interrupt event for quartz at the same time.

Get out there and farm the hell out of quartz! Until white day rolls around, this is the next best thing to flooding the susanoguren market.

Alenoir
Nov 6, 2013, 03:51 PM
It basically means premium users can easily 50% any 10* whereas free players have to get insanely lucky or spend a ton of time and/or meseta. Like a disproportionate amount, way more than is reasonable to say "but you can get everything for free!"

Wouldn't be so bad with +10% element tickets, but Sega made a typical executive decision on that one.

Not really, you'd still need to actually FIND a 10* to be able to get a weapon pass, vs just killing your brain in advance quest and get a bunch of stones to convert the 9* stuffs.

+5% element tickets are in every single AC scratch. The +10% one is actually account locked, so you can't buy them anyways.

UnLucky
Nov 6, 2013, 04:33 PM
Finding a 10* is easy. Just run Trick or Treat, Falz, AQs (well not right now), or complete your Matterboards.

Finding a good 10* is a different story. Most rares are trash 7-9*s. Most 10*s are trash excube fodder. Anything else will be outclassed in a month.

Premium users can have the best thing at any given point, using trash rares to get what they want, and every investment can be returned as meseta or another pass.

Free users can twiddle their thumbs hoping to get lucky with no way to gear up using meseta. You could have 500m and still be stuck with AQ rares. Now I hope your answer to that isn't "just buy XQ passes and completely gear out in 50% 11*s!"

pkemr4
Nov 6, 2013, 04:41 PM
even with premium or AC you still can get shafted.... (atleast me that is)

ArcaneTechs
Nov 6, 2013, 04:51 PM
Prem isnt anywhere near close to pay to win, even if your prem it wouldnt matter, ya you got the passes but your assuming everyones got the money for the best gear. but no, being prem is no where near pay to win just because to get passes.

and you make it sound like free users are a bunch of cheapskates because they dont want to pay for prem, throwing that out there

Macman
Nov 6, 2013, 04:52 PM
Prem isnt anywhere near close to pay to win, even if your prem it wouldnt matter, ya you got the passes but your assuming everyones got the money for the best gear.
Being Premium gives you MyShop. Money is a non-issue.

Maninbluejumpsuit
Nov 6, 2013, 06:14 PM
Being Premium gives you MyShop. Money is a non-issue.

So does fun scratch. Got two 3 day tickets in 7 draws.

GALEFORCE
Nov 6, 2013, 06:59 PM
So does fun scratch. Got two 3 day tickets in 7 draws.

I've gone months without a shop ticket from FUN. Please don't imply that that's a common occurence :(

UnLucky
Nov 6, 2013, 08:03 PM
Prem isnt anywhere near close to pay to win, even if your prem it wouldnt matter, ya you got the passes but your assuming everyones got the money for the best gear. but no, being prem is no where near pay to win just because to get passes.

and you make it sound like free users are a bunch of cheapskates because they dont want to pay for prem, throwing that out there

You can still pay 200k for better gear than most free players would ever find on their own.

Zyrusticae
Nov 6, 2013, 09:04 PM
Premium is the equivalent of a pay-to-play option, not a pay-to-win option.

This isn't even arguable. It's a subscription fee. If anything is "pay to win" it's the damn AC scratch that can net you many millions, so long as you're willing to pour hundreds of dollars into the game.

UnLucky
Nov 6, 2013, 09:17 PM
I really wish premium/AC was only RMT, but you get a lot more than that.

Well mostly just 10* trading. Pretty much my only issue with the system is no-trade items.

ArcaneTechs
Nov 7, 2013, 12:54 AM
You can still pay 200k for better gear than most free players would ever find on their own.

Do your TA's, no excuse and im sure most you free members hoarded those 1 day prem passes and any possible number of 10 star weps and units to trade in for passes. Still can't argue about units either, theyre stupid common so you can't say you can't get a full set of Ragne units if anything people are being picky about the best things and they can't get them for w/e reason so they won't bother to make due what they can get and instead whine about prem stuff


Premium is the equivalent of a pay-to-play option, not a pay-to-win option.

This isn't even arguable. It's a subscription fee. If anything is "pay to win" it's the damn AC scratch that can net you many millions, so long as you're willing to pour hundreds of dollars into the game.

Thank You

UnLucky
Nov 8, 2013, 12:22 AM
Did you just seriously say to "do your TA's" when YOU were the one who said not everyone with premium can afford to buy good gear? Really?

Also I've never received a 1 day premium pass and I've been playing since beta.

If all I did was spend money on AC scratch I could never buy the best items. You know why? Cause I wouldn't have premium. AC scratch is not pay-to-win at all. It's RMT.

Zyrusticae
Nov 8, 2013, 12:29 AM
Man, this is a REALLY stupid argument to have.

It always boils down to semantic bullshit about what constitutes "pay to win". I'm not having any of that. Sick of that shit. Don't even bother.

UnLucky
Nov 8, 2013, 12:37 AM
pay to win = $$$ is imba in pvp

Avereth CAST
Nov 8, 2013, 01:36 PM
First off Kril free players have never received a premium pass. I have no idea where you got the idea that they did, but I've played since closed beta and definitely never received one, nor do I recall any campaign or compensation ever granting such a thing to anyone but already premium players. That said....moving on...

People calling this game pay to win have no idea what real pay to win offenders are like.

For that matter this game doesn't even have PvP so even the lack of buying 10 stars doesn't make a difference. The people so impatient for those shiny 10 stars for sale that are only dirt cheap because only premium players can even choose to buy them would probably quit the game quickly once they had that but couldn't afford/didn't want to make the effort to hunt the expensive item.

Impatient streaks aren't cured just because the current irritation has been acquired.

For that matter, I keep telling people that 9 star items are honestly not as bad as they are being made out to be. For that matter, they're far easier to get to +10 than a 10 star, so someone claiming they're always so poor because they're probably always buying waifu dressup or think TAs are too hard instead of saving won't even be able to max that 10 star weapon where they could a 9 star.

I'm also bothered that people moaning about 10 star trading could painfully easily get very potent AQ reward 10 star weapon trades for easy to get/buy 9 star weapons and a few AQ rocks.

I still use an elder rifle and 9 star falz arm launcher, as well as rouge coffin and sukurai. According to these people these must be just terrible weapons, but I'm beating the crap out of SH with them and they were practically free 10 star gifts from Sega.

Coatl
Nov 8, 2013, 01:47 PM
If you want to be good at the game you best buy premium, or else you'll end up settling for mediocre gear. There's no way around it. That seems pretty way to win to me. Oh, and eventually all the AQ turn ins will also require *10 weapons. So no, free players are not safe there either. They'll just have to hunt for their rares or forever be stuck with older AQ turn ins that have long since been outclassed.

gigawuts
Nov 8, 2013, 02:23 PM
First off Kril free players have never received a premium pass. I have no idea where you got the idea that they did, but I've played since closed beta and definitely never received one, nor do I recall any campaign or compensation ever granting such a thing to anyone but already premium players. That said....moving on...Provably false; I have a small pile of 24 hour premium passes acquired from various compensations.


People calling this game pay to win have no idea what real pay to win offenders are like.
No true Scotsman is popular around here.


For that matter this game doesn't even have PvP so even the lack of buying 10 stars doesn't make a difference. The people so impatient for those shiny 10 stars for sale that are only dirt cheap because only premium players can even choose to buy them would probably quit the game quickly once they had that but couldn't afford/didn't want to make the effort to hunt the expensive item.If PVE didn't matter to anyone we wouldn't be playing PSO2.


Impatient streaks aren't cured just because the current irritation has been acquired."Just farm the 1/100k drops"


For that matter, I keep telling people that 9 star items are honestly not as bad as they are being made out to be. For that matter, they're far easier to get to +10 than a 10 star, so someone claiming they're always so poor because they're probably always buying waifu dressup or think TAs are too hard instead of saving won't even be able to max that 10 star weapon where they could a 9 star."The bad items aren't that bad"


I'm also bothered that people moaning about 10 star trading could painfully easily get very potent AQ reward 10 star weapon trades for easy to get/buy 9 star weapons and a few AQ rocks.The only good AQ pyrox weapons are made from 10*s now, and soon even better ones will be made out of coast, quarry, and of course seabed weapons.


I still use an elder rifle and 9 star falz arm launcher, as well as rouge coffin and sukurai. According to these people these must be just terrible weapons, but I'm beating the crap out of SH with them and they were practically free 10 star gifts from Sega.
"I'm okay with it so you should be too."

My god it's like watching a Fox News debate. I'm genuinely stunned that you didn't use the word "bootstraps" sincerely and unironically.

Omega-z
Nov 8, 2013, 02:25 PM
If you want to "have a better chance at top gear" at the game you best buy premium, or else you'll end up settling for "Normal" gear. There's no way around it. That seems pretty way to win to me. Oh, and eventually all the AQ turn ins will also require *10 weapons. So no, free players are not safe there either. They'll just have to hunt for their rares or forever be stuck with older AQ turn ins that have long since been outclassed.


^fix'd , Because being Prem. does not make one "good" at a game that takes skill not $$$. And having Prem. doesn't guarantee the best gear or better to normal ones you have. But going Prem. does help one to get the opportunity to improve even for a short time. I would not suggest to go Prem. all the time and save up for it; I would say for a game like this going Prem. every 4 ~ 6 months is sufficient.

Update : @gigawuts - Premium 1 day Passes "only" come from any one that spends AC or had Premium during a time that they lost time or delay'd AC use because of Sega's goof ups.

UnLucky
Nov 8, 2013, 03:17 PM
If by "have a better chance" you mean "completely eliminate all RNG from the horrid drop rates" then yes, premium players have a better chance indeed.

gigawuts
Nov 8, 2013, 03:40 PM
I'm pretty sure one of those campaigns did not require premium, and I didn't have it at the time and did receive it however, I could be wrong about that.

Omega-z
Nov 8, 2013, 03:58 PM
well they had like 4~6 times they gave out 1 day passes. 3 of those times was for messed up Prem. and delay'd AC. the others was when you spend AC during one point to another. The last time they gave out the passes was for the May goof up that they gave anyone that spend AC or had Prem. from the end of April ~ to the begining of July.

Zyrusticae
Nov 8, 2013, 04:50 PM
If by "have a better chance" you mean "completely eliminate all RNG from the horrid drop rates" then yes, premium players have a better chance indeed.
Man, fuck right off with that shit. Seriously.

It doesn't matter if you got premium or not if you never got any 10*s to turn into passes in the first place, or if you lack the meseta to turn those passes into decent 10* weapon purchases and/or grind and/or affix them. Everyone deals with RNG in this game, the difference with Premium is that instead of having to pay for it just to get to play the game in the first place, you get the chance to play a gimped version of the game for free. I wonder how many people would even still be here if the game were actually fully pay-to-play (probably only a quarter of the posters, maybe even fewer than that).

In what world does Premium give you a 100% chance to get 10*s to drop ("completely eliminate all RNG from the horrid drop rates")? I want to know!

Sp-24
Nov 8, 2013, 04:56 PM
In this one. Without premium, there's no way for you to trade a garbage 10☆ for a weapon pass and then buy a weapon that you want with the money that you've made way, way faster that freeloaders, in part thanks to the new, premium-only drink.

Like, literally no way. Remember those people who whined about being able to buy, but not sell 9☆ stuff? Well, it's even worse now, and there are still people who defend this. Probably the same ones who've used "Well, it could've been worse" as an actual argument.

Zyrusticae
Nov 8, 2013, 05:21 PM
It's still not 100% (you have to get the garbage 10* to drop first), which is my main contention with that statement.

Nothing you've said contradicts my assertion in any way (that the "free" game is a gimped version of the paid-to-play game, merely offered as an alternative to not being able to play the game whatsoever if you don't pay the sub fee every month).

Edit: I'm going to be clear as this as I possibly can be. You have ZERO ROOM TO COMPLAIN. Would you really rather they make the game fully pay-to-play so you can't even login without paying the sub fee? Would you really? Don't even try to suggest that the free portion of the game should be even more generous than it already is, because, frankly, that just makes you look like an incredible cheapskate. The game doesn't even have a box fee like the previous games did. You have literally no excuse. Stop bitching and moaning and pay or shut the fuck up, there is no other option (that is actually halfway reasonable, at least).

jooozek
Nov 8, 2013, 05:41 PM
pso2 is such pay2win garbage
shit like that wouldn't fly in the west
no wonder it didn't come out yet an prolly despite all the denial it was cancelled
cos it would be a massive flop

gigawuts
Nov 8, 2013, 05:58 PM
It's still not 100% (you have to get the garbage 10* to drop first), which is my main contention with that statement.

Nothing you've said contradicts my assertion in any way (that the "free" game is a gimped version of the paid-to-play game, merely offered as an alternative to not being able to play the game whatsoever if you don't pay the sub fee every month).

Edit: I'm going to be clear as this as I possibly can be. You have ZERO ROOM TO COMPLAIN. Would you really rather they make the game fully pay-to-play so you can't even login without paying the sub fee? Would you really? Don't even try to suggest that the free portion of the game should be even more generous than it already is, because, frankly, that just makes you look like an incredible cheapskate. The game doesn't even have a box fee like the previous games did. You have literally no excuse. Stop bitching and moaning and pay or shut the fuck up, there is no other option (that is actually halfway reasonable, at least).

All this apoligism makes me think you might be a bad pet owner or parent.

Avereth CAST
Nov 8, 2013, 06:01 PM
Provably false; I have a small pile of 24 hour premium passes acquired from various compensations.

Still doesn't look like it. I certainly wish it had happened as then I'd be able to save one until a year or two from now when Sega runs out of ideas to keeps pumping out new content so fast constantly outdating everything. Pretty sure the only way to get one without premium required spending ac during certain periods anyway.


No true Scotsman is popular around here.

This is a useless statement and you should feel bad for not being constructive.


If PVE didn't matter to anyone we wouldn't be playing PSO2.

Where did I ever say no one cared about pve? I pointed out that whatever weak element of pay to win this game has, it's hardly notable when there's no pvp for someone to beat your face in as a wallet warrior. And for that matter, I hardly consider this game pay to win when merely having premium lets you so painfully easily get the buyable weapons with passes, while other games virtually require spending tens to hundreds to easily thousands of dollars upgrading items and buying stat boost items and equipment.


"Just farm the 1/100k drops"

Yeah, maybe 11 and 12 star items are believably that rare, but most 10 star weapons are not at PSO v.1 Dreamcast rates. I've found many more regular 10 stars in non boosted non boss cases than I did 11 and 12 star items in PSOBB. I can't say for sure what they're like in SH because I've only played enough to get a couple since things like having a job and social life keep me off PSO2 to put in some good grinding time for rares, but 1/100k is a load of shit statement.

I'm Not even up to a 200k kill total yet so...yeaaaaaah.


"The bad items aren't that bad"

This is a useless statement and you should feel bad for not being constructive.

However in the spirit of likewise trying out being an internet tough guy spouting belittling vitriol to prove my supposed superiority I'll try doing it too like you did.

"Spoiled entitled people are spoiled and entitled."


The only good AQ pyrox weapons are made from 10*s now, and soon even better ones will be made out of coast, quarry, and of course seabed weapons.

I have not paid very much attention to the new ones since I actually like having things to hunt for, but if you're calling falz welfare trades or ruins drops used for pyroxenes rare I truly feel sorry for you.

I do hope new ones require 10 stars that take work to find, like at least a week of constant MPA grinding to maybe get the rare for the trade up. I'm sick of so many possible item hunts being invalidated by the rock shop.


"I'm okay with it so you should be too."

This is a useless statement and you should feel bad for not being constructive.


My god it's like watching a Fox News debate. I'm genuinely stunned that you didn't use the word "bootstraps" sincerely and unironically.

This is a useless statement and you should feel bad for not being constructive.

Bootstraps

Sp-24
Nov 8, 2013, 06:04 PM
It's still not 100% (you have to get the garbage 10* to drop first), which is my main contention with that statement.

Nothing you've said contradicts my assertion in any way (that the "free" game is a gimped version of the paid-to-play game, merely offered as an alternative to not being able to play the game whatsoever if you don't pay the sub fee every month).

Edit: I'm going to be clear as this as I possibly can be. You have ZERO ROOM TO COMPLAIN. Would you really rather they make the game fully pay-to-play so you can't even login without paying the sub fee? Would you really? Don't even try to suggest that the free portion of the game should be even more generous than it already is, because, frankly, that just makes you look like an incredible cheapskate. The game doesn't even have a box fee like the previous games did. You have literally no excuse. Stop bitching and moaning and pay or shut the fuck up, there is no other option (that is actually halfway reasonable, at least).
There's quite a bit of a room to complain. I do agree that with Sega, you can't really expect their game to be good even if they focus pay-to-play approach that usually expects the developer to at least somehow care about their existing players (at least before the game takes a nosedive and it's milking time); however, I do not agree at all that some other game being somehow even worse somehow makes PSO2 the best game ever that you cannot complain about, since it free, though not really.

And yes, it should be more generous. If it's advertised as a free to play game, it better be good as a free to play game. If it isn't, you'll have people ignore the game, drop it after playing, or, I don't even know, complain about the game being not good? Frustrating agony that can only be relieved with cash injection is hardly what I'd call a nice business model, though apparently, japanese audience is weird enough to enjoy it.

It being pay to win is in no way my biggest beef with PSO2, but the fact of the matter is: PSO2 is just about unbearable for cheapskates like me. It barely getting any better after you do dump some money in it is hardly an argument - if anything, it makes me even less willing to buy a premium set, since the thought that I'll suffer even more by not continuously pumping more money into a supposedly free game followed me every day after I used up my premium ticket once. Needless to say, the feeling it would leave me with was less than encouraging.

joozek was probably being sarcastic, or intentionally provocative, but I agree: in its current state, PSO2 has no chance outside of Japan unless they just sell Asiasoft worldwide rights so that they milk their 1000 dumb players for all they can with cash shop and then shut the game down within 2 years.

gigawuts
Nov 8, 2013, 06:05 PM
lots of dodging and what is essentially keyboard masturbation

So in other words you haven't actually played PSO2, because that experience is way, way, way off anything I've been playing for >4k hours.

BIG OLAF
Nov 8, 2013, 06:06 PM
someone claiming they're always so poor because they're probably always buying waifu dressup

Ah, the tried-and-true way to lose credibility.

Avereth CAST
Nov 8, 2013, 06:18 PM
So in other words you haven't actually played PSO2, because that experience is way, way, way off anything I've been playing for >4k hours.

Clearly my >2k hours was all spent as a lobby rat in B20 while somehow maxing both main classes from chat exp and dirty SA spam. I just make posts on the forums without having any idea what I'm trying to talk about and all the supporting points were drawn out of a really big hat.

Glad to see rather than trying to argue my points you just gave up though. But if you're not going to give me anything to work with or even pay attention to anything I said, I'm not sure what to say really. It's always possible I've been abnormally lucky for my entire playing experience, but it doesn't seem that likely.

Perhaps my viewpoint differs from yours because I don't feel entitled to my rares, I always assume nothing will drop, I don't ever try to hunt a single item, and I'm not concerned I don't have the current best items in the game. I'm pretty sure my 41k sneak shooters and whatever obscene hits I get from chain wb mech combos are going to kill that boss almost as fast, and my add bullet spam is doing similar at 3k per hit during mpas where everything dies as soon as it appear anyway.


Ah, the tried-and-true way to lose credibility.

Oh look, another one of those types.

Sorry, I'll give credit where credit's due. Feeling the need to affix over 2 slots to max as much as possible or +10 weapons of every type for every class is pretty good at keeping most of my friends poor all the time too. Then there's also the poor saps who want to play dressup all the time on all of their characters who are tragically also all female characters. Talking about this or that outfit they need to save a few million for, or losing it all on lobby action tickets. It's really very possible to save up a little money in this game, but you can't complain if you're trying to put it into too many money sinks at once because the available income sources can only give so much without obscene luck + player shop or being a very experienced affixer, which most people are not, and thus have to manage their finances carefully.

gigawuts
Nov 8, 2013, 06:22 PM
Clearly my >2k hours was all spent as a lobby rat in B20 while somehow maxing both main classes from chat exp and dirty SA spam. I just make posts on the forums without having any idea what I'm trying to talk about and all the supporting points were drawn out of a really big hat.

Glad to see rather than trying to argue my points you just gave up though. But if you're not going to give me anything to work with or even pay attention to anything I said, I'm not sure what to say really. It's always possible I've been abnormally lucky for my entire playing experience, but it doesn't seem that likely.

Perhaps my viewpoint differs from yours because I don't feel entitled to my rares, I always assume nothing will drop, I don't ever try to hunt a single item, and I'm not concerned I don't have the current best items in the game. I'm pretty sure my 41k sneak shooters and whatever obscene hits I get from chain wb mech combos are going to kill that boss almost as fast, and my add bullet spam is doing similar at 3k per hit during mpas where everything dies as soon as it appear anyway.

You told me everything I needed to know when you replied to calling out a bullshit logical fallacy a useless statement, touted having a job and social life as a badge of honor, said that since you've found items that are by now exceptionally common that droprates are fine, and began accusing anyone who feels the droprates are bullshit as being entitled.

If the worst thing that happens to me today is you thinking I'm a meanie poopie pants because I won't play Internet Debater Pro Extreme 2013 with you, then I'll just have to live with that.

BIG OLAF
Nov 8, 2013, 06:26 PM
their characters who are tragically also all female. Talking about this or that outfit they need to save a few million for, or losing it all on lobby action tickets.

Keep digging that hole.

Deeper baby, nyaa~

Maninbluejumpsuit
Nov 8, 2013, 06:43 PM
Dear god what have I done?

Though could we stop calling pso2 a pay to win game? It was only spring this year sega gave the option of purchasing 10 stars from other players (smells of afterthought, and being p2w was obviously not their intention for almost a whole year prior to that), and sinking money in this game devoid of pvp doesn't make anyone immune to the laws of RNG.

Also the differences between pyroxene vs other 10 stars is not gamebreaking (it is especially hard to be gamebreaking when there's no pvp, or brick wall of a pve endgame in pso2), and there's no method of buying your way to 11*+ gear anyway.

Sp-24
Nov 8, 2013, 06:47 PM
If I could call it that during open beta, I sure as hell am not going to stop now.

Maninbluejumpsuit
Nov 8, 2013, 07:01 PM
If I could call it that during open beta, I sure as hell am not going to stop now.

Then inform me; in what way was pso2 pay to win in open beta?

Sp-24
Nov 8, 2013, 07:10 PM
Then inform me; in what way was pso2 pay to win in open beta?
I was just kidding.

Back then, that is. Not sure if I jinxed it or just had the power to predict the obvious, but here we are.

Macman
Nov 9, 2013, 02:24 AM
In what world does Premium give you a 100% chance to get 10*s to drop ("completely eliminate all RNG from the horrid drop rates")? I want to know!
Matterboard 11 says hi. Get Lord Axeon/Rocket Punch, turn into passes, buy super-gear.

EvilMag
Nov 9, 2013, 02:32 AM
Matterboard 11 says hi. Get Lord Axeon/Rocket Punch, turn into passes, buy super-gear.

Also hi MB13 that gives you Goran rod and MB14 that gives you those all class mechs and sword.

Also you get a free character so double that many free 10*s.

Macman
Nov 9, 2013, 02:35 AM
Not free. You still need to pay Sega some tasty tasty $$$ to make actual use of them.

Though if you were crazy, you could constantly remake that 2nd character, redo all your matterboards and get even more guaranteed 10*.

Maninbluejumpsuit
Nov 9, 2013, 02:45 AM
Matterboard 11 says hi. Get Lord Axeon/Rocket Punch, turn into passes, buy super-gear.

A weapon being 10* doesn't qualify it as 'super gear' with how good the new 9s are. Even less so in the presence of 11s like twin kamui, and orochi agito. Some of the 10* pyroxene take 9* fodder, and they're far from obsolete. The biggest perk to non-pyroxene 10s is the ability to sell them back when you're done with them.

Rien
Nov 9, 2013, 02:56 AM
Actually the new 9*s aren't super great

maybe if there's a lack of AQ gear (like katanas/bows), yes, and they also surpass red weapons.

But otherwise a 10* is still better in general.

Maninbluejumpsuit
Nov 9, 2013, 03:05 AM
Actually the new 9*s aren't super great

maybe if there's a lack of AQ gear (like katanas/bows), yes, and they also surpass red weapons.

But otherwise a 10* is still better in general.

I know they aren't super great, but to say you need 10s of every weapon with those options in a game with barely any meaningful competition is a stretch. Not much "pay to win" when there's not alot to win/everything is doable. Hell, I did ohza's stupid CO for SH ruins exploration (sword only) with a lambda aristin, and it really sucks fighting SH zesh with a sword...

Rien
Nov 9, 2013, 03:13 AM
Actually if you're hitting SH you should at least have an SH 9* or AQ exchange 10* for every single weapon. Partisans get it easier because of how strong their slide end and assault buster photon arts are at level 15, but generally if you have anything less you'll notice a lot of fights are more drawn out and quite a pain to do.

Maninbluejumpsuit
Nov 9, 2013, 03:23 AM
Actually if you're hitting SH you should at least have an SH 9* or AQ exchange 10* for every single weapon.

Yeah, that's pretty much what I said. Those are enough.

Zyrusticae
Nov 9, 2013, 09:04 AM
There's quite a bit of a room to complain. I do agree that with Sega, you can't really expect their game to be good even if they focus pay-to-play approach that usually expects the developer to at least somehow care about their existing players (at least before the game takes a nosedive and it's milking time); however, I do not agree at all that some other game being somehow even worse somehow makes PSO2 the best game ever that you cannot complain about, since it free, though not really.

And yes, it should be more generous. If it's advertised as a free to play game, it better be good as a free to play game. If it isn't, you'll have people ignore the game, drop it after playing, or, I don't even know, complain about the game being not good? Frustrating agony that can only be relieved with cash injection is hardly what I'd call a nice business model, though apparently, japanese audience is weird enough to enjoy it.

It being pay to win is in no way my biggest beef with PSO2, but the fact of the matter is: PSO2 is just about unbearable for cheapskates like me. It barely getting any better after you do dump some money in it is hardly an argument - if anything, it makes me even less willing to buy a premium set, since the thought that I'll suffer even more by not continuously pumping more money into a supposedly free game followed me every day after I used up my premium ticket once. Needless to say, the feeling it would leave me with was less than encouraging.

joozek was probably being sarcastic, or intentionally provocative, but I agree: in its current state, PSO2 has no chance outside of Japan unless they just sell Asiasoft worldwide rights so that they milk their 1000 dumb players for all they can with cash shop and then shut the game down within 2 years.
See, my problem with this is that they gain nothing from keeping you around, aside from maybe value to other players who want to play with you (something that can't be quantified) . If they can't monetize their players then all those player numbers mean is just a "feel-good" emotion and nothing else. For that matter, the game then goes out of business, and nobody wants that (aside from the people who REALLY hate PSO2 and/or SEGA, and I can safely say those people should be ignored).

I don't even care that there are games that are "worse off". I care that the game is easily playable as it is with welfare 10*s/easily-obtained 9*s and yet people still find it within themselves to bitch and moan about not being able to buy top-end gear without spending a dime. For ONCE the game has something behind the pay wall that people actually care about and it invites all sorts of bitching and moaning from people who NEVER GIVE THEM A CENT. IRL I am sympathetic towards people who get short shrift on the income lottery, but in a video game? Pure entertainment? For that matter, for something as small as a $15 sub fee (less than that if you buy in bulk)? Something you only need to pay once every few months when you actually need the ability to trade as opposed to needing to pay every month for the privelage of logging in?

There's a reason there's been a ridiculous (but not wholly undeserved) stigma going around about cheapskate "me me me me me" entitled free-only players jumping from game to game devouring content like locusts and asking for the world in return for nothing. This kind of shit does nothing to help that.

gigawuts
Nov 9, 2013, 09:10 AM
See, my problem with this is that they gain nothing from keeping you around, aside from maybe value to other players who want to play with you (something that can't be quantified) .

Ha ha ha

Please, please, please don't stop.

Sp-24
Nov 9, 2013, 11:05 AM
See, my problem with this is that they gain nothing from keeping you around, aside from maybe value to other players who want to play with you (something that can't be quantified) . If they can't monetize their players then all those player numbers mean is just a "feel-good" emotion and nothing else. For that matter, the game then goes out of business, and nobody wants that (aside from the people who REALLY hate PSO2 and/or SEGA, and I can safely say those people should be ignored).

I don't even care that there are games that are "worse off". I care that the game is easily playable as it is with welfare 10*s/easily-obtained 9*s and yet people still find it within themselves to bitch and moan about not being able to buy top-end gear without spending a dime. For ONCE the game has something behind the pay wall that people actually care about and it invites all sorts of bitching and moaning from people who NEVER GIVE THEM A CENT. IRL I am sympathetic towards people who get short shrift on the income lottery, but in a video game? Pure entertainment? For that matter, for something as small as a $15 sub fee (less than that if you buy in bulk)? Something you only need to pay once every few months when you actually need the ability to trade as opposed to needing to pay every month for the privelage of logging in?

There's a reason there's been a ridiculous (but not wholly undeserved) stigma going around about cheapskate "me me me me me" entitled free-only players jumping from game to game devouring content like locusts and asking for the world in return for nothing. This kind of shit does nothing to help that.
People actually accepting and defending the practice of companies making lazy cash grabs that rely on familiar names to sell virtual merchandizing and fanservice (both "skimpy outfits" and "remember that anime/game?" kinds, Sega's really going all out) while either neglecting or outright breaking anything that may be good about their game just to squeeze more money out of it instead (speaking of gameplay here, which is literally on crutches now, despite showing promise of healing a year ago) is what actually does not help this, that, or just about anything other than the offending company's wallet. Listening to criticism can be helpful at times, but apparently, it's a lot cheaper to buy a contradicting opinion and ignore a potential problem (or, in PSO2's case, numerous actual ones) than to attempt to fix them.

But it gets better/worse: it's not just a lazy cash grab, but also an obnoxious one. The full game, when it's at it best, is not exactly very hot? Wait until you play as a non-premium member!

Getting OHKO'd by everything, and fights take forever? Well, have you tried affixing? Oh, boo-hoo "don't wanna spend millions of imaginary money accumulated over literal weeks of time on a shitty lottery that may not even pay off, when much better equipment comes out in a few weeks, along with enemies requiring it to even survive to match, which will make it obsolete anyway", just buy some AC Scratch and and use the meseta from selling that stuff. Ah, right, we got a "No-Scratch" one here, jeez, just buy some stuff others won and exchange it at the recycle shop and get yourself some rare that doesn't suck, then. Oh, now the drop rates are abysmal, even with all the boosts, and you never actually get what you are looking for or even want, not to mention that AC stuff is pretty expensive? Jesus, just sell whatever you get to other players and then buy whatever you were hunting for with the desired affixes. OH, the "getting access to My Shop without premium is hard, and actually buying a 10☆ is completely impossible without it" card, what are you, poor? What? The aforementioned bullshit doesn't make you very interested in spending anything on the game in the first place? Well, how about you just leave instead of making me uncomfortable with things that I don't like to read that may or may not be completely true?

I wanted to include a line where the cheapskate is suggested to play PSO2 and enjoy it, but apparently, even a paying member can't do that, since the game is a dry hump simulator with an option to buy some lube. But I guess that nobody ever getting anything somehow makes the game good, right?

UnLucky
Nov 9, 2013, 11:21 AM
Ha ha ha

Please, please, please don't stop.

I've stopped responding to that kind of thing a long time ago.

gigawuts
Nov 9, 2013, 11:21 AM
I've stopped responding to that kind of thing a long time ago.

It's already been explained figuratively a million times. Several figurative hundred thousand were to him specifically, too. Saying it all again is just pissing into the ocean.

UnLucky
Nov 9, 2013, 11:31 AM
I honestly do not understand how the concept of "trading one thing of value for another thing of value" as a mutually benefiting relationship can be completely lost on people.

Like that's not even Econ 101. It's kindergarten daycare playtime.

jooozek
Nov 9, 2013, 04:23 PM
i find it funny that even tho pso2 is f2p, a relaunch of FF XIV which not only requires a sub, but also the game purchase beat it's number of concurrent connections
teehee ^_____^

gigawuts
Nov 9, 2013, 05:37 PM
I honestly do not understand how the concept of "trading one thing of value for another thing of value" as a mutually benefiting relationship can be completely lost on people.

Like that's not even Econ 101. It's kindergarten daycare playtime.

You're describing socialism, boy. That's not how capitalism works and us here in america will abide by God's intended law.

Zyrusticae
Nov 9, 2013, 07:11 PM
I don't see where trading as a mutually beneficial relationship for the players has anything to do with my premise that putting the 10* trading behind the premium pay wall is beneficial to the company.

Also, you're barking up the wrong tree, Gigawuts. I hate capitalism with a passion and shit like this is certainly more fuel to the fire. However, if you're going to attack stupid business practices, I really think it's more productive to attack the thing that motivates those business practices (i.e. "money"). SEGA is hardly the only corporation out there doing stupid things for the sake of monetary gain (CAPCOM's DLC & dumbing down/action-ing of Resident Evil, Squeenix's new mobile focus, Team Fortress 2 becoming Hat Simulator Online, Call of Duty/Assassin's Creed/insert-franchise-staple-here being milked to death with yearly iterations, etc., etc.)

Too many folks who can't see the forest for the trees...

[SPOILER-BOX]People actually accepting and defending the practice of companies making lazy cash grabs that rely on familiar names to sell virtual merchandizing and fanservice (both "skimpy outfits" and "remember that anime/game?" kinds, Sega's really going all out) while either neglecting or outright breaking anything that may be good about their game just to squeeze more money out of it instead (speaking of gameplay here, which is literally on crutches now, despite showing promise of healing a year ago) is what actually does not help this, that, or just about anything other than the offending company's wallet. Listening to criticism can be helpful at times, but apparently, it's a lot cheaper to buy a contradicting opinion and ignore a potential problem (or, in PSO2's case, numerous actual ones) than to attempt to fix them.

But it gets better/worse: it's not just a lazy cash grab, but also an obnoxious one. The full game, when it's at it best, is not exactly very hot? Wait until you play as a non-premium member!

Getting OHKO'd by everything, and fights take forever? Well, have you tried affixing? Oh, boo-hoo "don't wanna spend millions of imaginary money accumulated over literal weeks of time on a shitty lottery that may not even pay off, when much better equipment comes out in a few weeks, along with enemies requiring it to even survive to match, which will make it obsolete anyway", just buy some AC Scratch and and use the meseta from selling that stuff. Ah, right, we got a "No-Scratch" one here, jeez, just buy some stuff others won and exchange it at the recycle shop and get yourself some rare that doesn't suck, then. Oh, now the drop rates are abysmal, even with all the boosts, and you never actually get what you are looking for or even want, not to mention that AC stuff is pretty expensive? Jesus, just sell whatever you get to other players and then buy whatever you were hunting for with the desired affixes. OH, the "getting access to My Shop without premium is hard, and actually buying a 10☆ is completely impossible without it" card, what are you, poor? What? The aforementioned bullshit doesn't make you very interested in spending anything on the game in the first place? Well, how about you just leave instead of making me uncomfortable with things that I don't like to read that may or may not be completely true?

I wanted to include a line where the cheapskate is suggested to play PSO2 and enjoy it, but apparently, even a paying member can't do that, since the game is a dry hump simulator with an option to buy some lube. But I guess that nobody ever getting anything somehow makes the game good, right?[/SPOILER-BOX]
Nice rant.

Unfortunately, the latter end's premise is completely flawed due to the easy access to TACOs for income and the fact that enemies have never actually required any exorbitant gear in the first place, even now in SH.

And let's also consider this core conceit in your rant: You're right, the game isn't all that hot to begin with. SO WHY BOTHER? No, really, why even bother? Why bother playing at all if even paying the sub fee doesn't make it enjoyable to you?

I know, I get it, you wouldn't pay the sub fee anyway for a game like this, even if it were required.

So why should SEGA care?

Why should I care?

gigawuts
Nov 9, 2013, 07:18 PM
Don't worry, that was a completely facetious and humourously speculative statement.

Zyrusticae
Nov 9, 2013, 07:35 PM
I figured.

I should mention that the fact that you can buy one month of premium and stock up on 10* passes is part of why I am not very sympathetic to people complaining about that particular pay wall. This on top of the fact that you can very easily wield the same weapons and units for many months at a time without even falling behind (as has been my experience in the game thus far).

This is in comparison to business models like Champions Online's glorified free trial whereby you don't even have full access to the game's customization features unless you go through the subscription pay wall. Shit like that makes PSO2's look extremely generous by comparison. Yes, I know, something else being worse does not automatically make something better, etc., etc. However, it's still useful as a grounding in reality. There are very few games out there where I can say being a free player is a completely painless experience (League of Legends and the Valve games are the only ones that come to mind).

Sometimes I think it would be nice if more companies had a business model like GW2's (pay the box fee, and you never, ever have to pay a sub fee ever again), but then I look at its content pipeline and weep....

UnLucky
Nov 9, 2013, 07:38 PM
I don't see where trading as a mutually beneficial relationship for the players has anything to do with my premise that putting the 10* trading behind the premium pay wall is beneficial to the company.
Don't worry about it Zyru, I won't be able to explain it in a way you would understand. Also that wasn't about 10* trading this time, just free players vs AC scratchers and their relative worth to Sega (Hint: neither one is negligible)

Zyrusticae
Nov 9, 2013, 07:50 PM
No, I do understand. There are three problems I have speaking about these players in particular:
1. Balking at paying $15 once every few months? Yeah, okay, buddy.

2. The game isn't even that great to begin with, so the value of word of mouth advertising (the primary, #1 reason you want loads of free players) is heavily diminished.

3. Despite #2, the game is insanely popular in Japan and is letting SEGA literally roll in piles of cash.

So at this point I just don't really give a shit about taking these complaints respectfully.

Plus, I'm not actually SEGA or working for SEGA, so why should I care?

Valkyrie Lovrina
Nov 9, 2013, 08:19 PM
just a quick note.
Never sell power(in any way, shape or form, in this case the 10* passes). I bought my Calbun set pre-affixed+grinded, if I didn't get two 1-day premium tickets then I couldn't have been allowed to upgrade to better units or weapons. as long as there is a better that only premiums can buy. it is Pay to Win. it is selling Power. 10*'s will always be stronger than 9*.

honestly, In TERA you could buy Character Slots(which were actually permanent), Este Passes(makeovers) etc from people who already bought them. they also allowed trading and use of the Player Shops(trade broker) for free (premiums can put more items on the broker than free players). was a breath of fresh air buying character slots.

gonna set this here, was something I watched when looking for other F2P games.
[SPOILER-BOX]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WXA559KNopI"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WXA559KNopI[/SPOILER-BOX]

I've said what I've had too. toodles. ^^

UnLucky
Nov 9, 2013, 08:34 PM
honestly, In TERA you could buy Character Slots(which were actually permanent), Este Passes(makeovers) etc from people who already bought them. they also allowed trading and use of the Player Shops(trade broker) for free (premiums can put more items on the broker than free players). was a breath of fresh air buying character slots.

No, see, the kind of freeloaders who expect to buy everything with only in-game currency are entitled, whiny children.

The kind of people who give the cash items their entire worth in the virtual economy.

The kind of players who directly fund the paying players.

The ones consuming cash items en masse.


They are but worthless trash whose opinions do not matter one bit to the company, that generous benefactor of happiness.

Coatl
Nov 9, 2013, 11:12 PM
I honestly just think if they boosted the drop rates of rares that it wouldn't be so bad. Paying players could save time and just buy the weapon they needed, but free players could just farm it too.

The Walrus
Nov 9, 2013, 11:14 PM
They'd have to do that, make it so crap rares from the previous difficulty don't drop, etc etc

Maninbluejumpsuit
Nov 10, 2013, 01:19 AM
They'd have to do that, make it so crap rares from the previous difficulty don't drop, etc etc

But I do so love ID'ing the 7* wand from falz oh so much :rolleyes:

Macman
Nov 10, 2013, 04:04 AM
I honestly just think if they boosted the drop rates of rares that it wouldn't be so bad. Paying players could save time and just buy the weapon they needed, but free players could just farm it too.
That goes against their punishment-oriented business model.
If farming was feasible, that would mean less soul-crushed victims forking over cash to make buy passes.

I remember when people complained that premium didn't have enough benefits to be worth the price. Boy that's a hoot these days isn't it?

Sp-24
Nov 10, 2013, 04:59 AM
Nice rant.

Unfortunately, the latter end's premise is completely flawed due to the easy access to TACOs for income and the fact that enemies have never actually required any exorbitant gear in the first place, even now in SH.

And let's also consider this core conceit in your rant: You're right, the game isn't all that hot to begin with. SO WHY BOTHER? No, really, why even bother? Why bother playing at all if even paying the sub fee doesn't make it enjoyable to you?

I know, I get it, you wouldn't pay the sub fee anyway for a game like this, even if it were required.

So why should SEGA care?
Honestly, I don't know why should Sega care. If Capcom is of any indication, ruining every single thing you've created over several decades is a very good idea, and everyone should follow their example. So, Sega's already on the right track, and nothing that a non-paying gaijin says should make them change their mind.

I'm just a little pissed off that the only way to enjoy the latest addition to Phantasy Star series is to heavily reconsider your (well, my) definition of what it means to "enjoy" things. Which makes me still wearing that bondage suit from the latest scratch a bit appropriate, I guess.


Why should I care?
I dunno. I'm replying to you, so I guess I want a reaction I'd approve of or something.

Goukezitsu
Nov 10, 2013, 05:12 AM
I don't know. Here's some simple answers. (this came out longer than I intended so I'm sorry in advanced)

1) Find shit. It's PSO. Shits been hard to find this isn't new. I never found any main class hunter gear since imperial pick and ruins charm almost a year agp. It happens. In the mean time I 50'd my 11* sword while hunting.

2) Keep Excavation reports. They keep you sane and they stop you from "assuming" you've spent years, days, and hours. In reality most of the time people have done far less than they think they have.

3) If you go premium ONCE you can turn in 30 10*s and make 30 10* passes which you'd be set for life for in this game. I'm premium and I've bought about 3 10*s in the past 6-7 months. It's not a big deal. Most of the stuff I want is 100M and I'm not spending 100M on something I can hunt or could possibly be gimped by some EQ in the next week.

4) Those "Trash" 10* you all talk about aren't trash. Some of them are really good they just aren't expensive because the entire population is running a quest. Got some floating edges? Good! They aren't shit. Got a jinrai? Also good! be happy about these weapons because the drop rate didn't change on them and they are still good weapons.

5) Want an expensive uber rare? Hunt in a place no one else is hunting. When you hunt in popular areas, you can expect most of the drops to be relatively cheap simply because everyone else is there as well. If you go to a less popular place, there's more chances of getting rares that are higher in value simply because everything there is less in circulation. In Trick or treat 2 for example even the tier 1 top of the line shit caps out at 13M because the entire server exhausts that mission. If you spent that kind of energy in say sanctum, coast, or FC you'd see a more average distribution of higher end items.

6) USE 250s, LUCKY RISE, AND TEAM TREE BUFF w/ DEBAND DRINK (its 10%), and tri boost 50%s from titles (100s from log in bonuses / bingo). I don't care what you think you know about pso and its drop rates there's one fact. Having more boosts = better chances so do it. It doesn't mean you'll use 1 ticket and have 30 p wands either but if that becomes your baseline you WILL find SOMETHING eventually.

7) LEARN WHEN TO BOOST. If you are in trick or treat 2 and its a shitty mpa save that shit. Don't boost. If you're in the same mission and you see embryo vardha / energized crystal pse burst with signo blues boost that shit.

8 ) Make a ritual. No you don't need 10290291021 hours to find shit. You need consistency. Want susanoo? kill 30 quartz a day. Tha'ts 2 hours of work. In 10 days you'll have 300 kills and in a month almost 1000. To find my ruins charm I mpa'd ruins for 4 hours a day for about a month. It took a while but I was ecstatic when I got something I wanted with persistence.

9) Shops have killed hunting. I almost wish they never existed and it was trades only. There would be more MPAs and more bitching but there would be more people out there appreciating when they got something that was pretty cool vs looking up its price. Plus its not like trading would save any of you. No one wants your shitty frigland for an elder pain. You'd have to hunt just like in PSO v1 (with 1/1M heaven punishers droprates :3).

10) I can't afford 1 month of premium! I have some bad news for you if you can't. Playing this game should be the least of your problems if 20 bucks is holding you back. If its something else though like not being able to pay than fine. You could always get someone else to do it for you and theres several payment options out there like playasia etc.

I might not have found any hunter shit worth while but I've found 2 holy rays when they were 25-30M, gun bravers, tonfas, and a few other notable rares all from doing high risk AQs (100+), poppin tickets and being consistent. I found stuff and I was happy about it. They were accomplishments of some sort.

Take the small victories while you have em. The only 100% sure way to NOT get what you want is to give up.



TL;DR The less lobby warrioring you do the more shit you'll find. Don't listen to the pessimists. Use lucky rise w/ tickets tree and drinks. Keep excavs for sanity. Be consistent and play for small chunks everyday. Premium saves no one from hunting entirely. Don't give up!

gigawuts
Nov 10, 2013, 08:44 AM
I don't see where trading as a mutually beneficial relationship for the players has anything to do with my premise that putting the 10* trading behind the premium pay wall is beneficial to the company.

Also, you're barking up the wrong tree, Gigawuts. I hate capitalism with a passion and shit like this is certainly more fuel to the fire. However, if you're going to attack stupid business practices, I really think it's more productive to attack the thing that motivates those business practices (i.e. "money"). SEGA is hardly the only corporation out there doing stupid things for the sake of monetary gain (CAPCOM's DLC & dumbing down/action-ing of Resident Evil, Squeenix's new mobile focus, Team Fortress 2 becoming Hat Simulator Online, Call of Duty/Assassin's Creed/insert-franchise-staple-here being milked to death with yearly iterations, etc., etc.)

Too many folks who can't see the forest for the trees...

Nice rant.

Unfortunately, the latter end's premise is completely flawed due to the easy access to TACOs for income and the fact that enemies have never actually required any exorbitant gear in the first place, even now in SH.

And let's also consider this core conceit in your rant: You're right, the game isn't all that hot to begin with. SO WHY BOTHER? No, really, why even bother? Why bother playing at all if even paying the sub fee doesn't make it enjoyable to you?

I know, I get it, you wouldn't pay the sub fee anyway for a game like this, even if it were required.

So why should SEGA care?

Why should I care?

The thing is, it can only get away with being like this because individual players are disposable. The collective mass of players is not.

Let's piss off 1, 2, or even free 100 players. What does this do? Essentially nothing. let's piss off all of them. What does that do? Everything.

Where do you think meseta really comes from? COs, item pickups & vending, and most importantly tacos. You can make 500k a day per character, easily and reliably. If you have two characters that's 1m for ~1 hour of "work." Now remove that inflow of meseta. What's going to happen to prices? What's going to happen to the flow of commodities? What's going to happen to the price of grinders? Who's going to do scratch just to sell the items when only paying players are left?

But what's even worse than that? How about we remove all the 3 day My Shop passes too. No more selling for free players. Surely you can't think only paying players sell items. All those fodders, all those 10*s, all those old costumes they're reselling to buy new ones. Everything every free player has gets taken off the market.

The free players are the game by volume. The free players are the commodity Sega is cultivating and harvesting every month to sell to the paying players. The game is designed to lure in as many free players as possible, and then try to get them to spend money. Is it actually that important that Sega convinces every player to spend money though? No. Maintaining those players is just a cost of operation. It's upkeep. It's fertilizer and sprinkler maintenance to make sure the crop gets its nutrients. You stop feeding your crop and you don't have anything to harvest and sell.

This is fundamental F2P design. This is the entire purpose of going F2P: Shift the burden of work to the players. This is why Google and Facebook insist on setting things up to advertise to your interests based on your posts, email, etc. Their services aren't free - they're free to you. As soon as a commodity or service becomes free you become the commodity.

Now scratch all of that. No more free players to float the game's economy. No more rat race with +5atk on a new weapon every 3 weeks. No more costumes that sell like wildfire to all the free players who have saved up their taco money for a month. What happens? Prices fall a bit, but so does supply. Immensely. Paying players sell to eachother, not to free players. But that also means paying players buy from eachother, not from free players. I'd garner that by volume, even if 1 in 10 free players dudus to resell with a 3 day My Shop pass, they still outnumber premium players. That gets boring having to do all that farming, grinding, and duduing work themselves to not even make that much profit.

So without free players the game itself needs more to see, more to do, and more fun ways to do it. End result? No free players -> game must be better.

tl;dr Yes. I would actually like this game without free players. It would have to be likable to still be around.

This is something we have said again, and again, and again, and again. I doubt you'll read it this time. Maybe you will! Shit I dunno. This is a mixture of econ 101, like the first few fucking chapters of the book you get in highschool, and F2P design (some of it covered by lovrina's video).

Zyrusticae
Nov 10, 2013, 11:53 AM
Hate to tell you this after such a lengthy post, but you didn't tell me a damn thing I didn't already know. Maybe I shouldn't be making any disparaging remarks about cheapskate free-only players anymore. It seems the propaganda has successfully indoctrinated me, because I can't think of such players as anything more than leeches despite knowing how much they contribute to a (free-to-play) game's success.

Edit: Oh gawd I am now imagining Dragon Sakai covered in leeches from head to toe OH GAWD WHY DID I USE THAT ANALOGY

Macman
Nov 10, 2013, 01:32 PM
4) Those "Trash" 10* you all talk about aren't trash. Some of them are really good they just aren't expensive because the entire population is running a quest. Got some floating edges? Good! They aren't shit. Got a jinrai? Also good! be happy about these weapons because the drop rate didn't change on them and they are still good weapons.

Just so you know, the common consensus is that trash 10* = pre-AQ 10*

You know, the shit that got vastly outclassed by pyroxene's.

The Walrus
Nov 10, 2013, 02:07 PM
Hate to tell you this after such a lengthy post, but you didn't tell me a damn thing I didn't already know. Maybe I shouldn't be making any disparaging remarks about cheapskate free-only players anymore. It seems the propaganda has successfully indoctrinated me, because I can't think of such players as anything more than leeches despite knowing how much they contribute to a (free-to-play) game's success.

Edit: Oh gawd I am now imagining Dragon Sakai covered in leeches from head to toe OH GAWD WHY DID I USE THAT ANALOGY

Maybe the reason some of them don't contribute is because they want Sega to actually make the game not crap and will donate if it ever reaches a state of decent.

UnLucky
Nov 10, 2013, 08:23 PM
I can't think of such players as anything more than leeches despite knowing how much they contribute to a (free-to-play) game's success.
Cool, alright, yeah. Remember when you said "they gain nothing from keeping [free players] around"?

We're making progress.

jooozek
Nov 10, 2013, 08:32 PM
Maybe the reason some of them don't contribute is because they want Sega to actually make the game not crap and will donate if it ever reaches a state of decent.

it takes some balls to say that
:roundofapplause:

Emp
Nov 10, 2013, 08:36 PM
Maybe the reason some of them don't
contribute is because they want Sega to actually make the game not crap and will donate if it ever reaches a state of decent.

I want decency. I want some DECENT @SS OUTFITS

but that wont ever happen

Zenobia
Nov 10, 2013, 08:38 PM
I want decency. I want some DECENT @SS OUTFITS

but that wont ever happen

I am with EMP on this I want outfits to cater to my char's Bodice design and my Ass slider.

Emp
Nov 10, 2013, 08:44 PM
I am with EMP on this I want outfits to cater to my char's Bodice design and my Ass slider.

I wasnt referring to anything bout the ass slider.

Zyrusticae
Nov 10, 2013, 11:22 PM
Maybe the reason some of them don't contribute is because they want Sega to actually make the game not crap and will donate if it ever reaches a state of decent.
YES. EXACTLY. JUST PUT IT LIKE THAT.

Getting caught up in all this semantic bullshit about whether or not it's pay to win or some other shit is completely pointless next to the question of whether or not the game meets standards of quality expected by customers everywhere, and obviously that is not the case as of right now (despite them raking in cash hand over fist).


Cool, alright, yeah. Remember when you said "they gain nothing from keeping [free players] around"?

We're making progress.
I said it can't be quantified, which is absolutely true. You can make ballpark guesses and maybe point to a few case studies here and there, but at the same time you're making assumptions about how much customers are just "putting up" with a business model because they really like a game versus the business model actually being a dampening factor in their growth.

Edit: By the way I should admit that I was wrong, and I know I should, but I can't. I am physically incapable of it at this point. It's sad, isn't it? I WANT TO BUT I CAN'T! HOW PATHETIC IS THAT?!

*ahem*

Good going on getting this far with me, at least. No, really. That's impressive on at least some level.

Edit #2: It's starting to make me depressed to think about how much I resemble Zipzo at this point. Wow. I need to shut up.

Zenobia
Nov 11, 2013, 09:52 PM
I wasnt referring to anything bout the ass slider.

Now remind me anywhere in my post that said you did that alone was my add on and mine alone.

@Zyru *pats* its okay.