A discussion about Units and their viability in the current endgame.

[Takatsuki]

I stopped playing the game quite a while ago, but picked the game back up last month. Just before I quit, I found and affixed myself some Ragne Set units, back when they were brand new. Each of these is worth 154/201/154 when grinded to +10. It is also of note that these are 10* units, meaning that unless you have premium, you cannot actually buy these, you MUST find them.

Of course, while these Units did me well in Very Hard, now that I've ventured into Super Hard (currently a 62/50 FI/TE Caseal), I take TONS of damage, and my Units are therefore no longer viable. I often lose 50%-75% of my entire HP per hit, and the only way I could possibly have better class-based defenses is if I mained Hunter.

Of course, the argument could be made - "don't get hit", but sometimes you just can't avoid attacks, or you don't see them coming, or you just make a mistake, it happens. However, I'm playing the race with the second best defenses in the game (short of a male Cast), with the second and third best defensive classes in the game respectively, with rare armor that, without premium, cannot be bought and I am still getting mauled.

So what do I do? Of course, I need new Units. Obviously. I have the meseta. I can go and drop 20+ million meseta on a full set of properly affixed, fully grinded 250/250/250 units, which while not the best, are a significant upgrade from what I have.

But that's a lot of meseta. Am I willing to spend that much on an armor upgrade? I'd rather not. It's an awful lot. I could spend less, if I grinded and affixed them myself, but of course, there also runs the chance of failure and a loss of tons of meseta in losing affixing fodder.

But unless I have premium, I cannot get that upgrade. I do have premium though, and plenty of 10* exchange passes to buy whatever I want. But not everyone has premium. Not everyone has passes. So their only option is to find these units on their own.

The problem is, absolutely NONE of the units that can be found with any remotely decent chance of success are remotely viable in the current endgame.

You can easily grind out Ragne/Vardha/Snow 10* units, but again, those aren't viable anymore. Even the rare variants of these units are only marginally better than the normal ones.

Well, what about better ones? Can those be reliably grinded out?

Nope, because ALL of them come from emergency codes (mostly red codes), which are random and cannot be reliably triggered. Even for the ones that can be reliably triggered, they're still incredibly rare.

Well... if not everyone has the meseta to buy these expensive units, nor does everyone have premium and 10* passes, nor can they grind these viable units out with any decent chance... what does someone do?

Do they fall back on 7-9* units? Well... no, they can't, because they're all significantly worse than the 10*s which we have already dismissed as non-viable (Ragne units, etc).

So what does someone do?

If I'm already taking half my health in damage per hit with units that I had to grind out and hope to god that they dropped (this was before you could buy/sell 10* units), how is someone who has WORSE units than that supposed to not die in 1 or 2 hits? What about Rangers, Forces, Bravers, or the poor Dewmans who have no defense to speak of. What are they supposed to do?

Sega expects us to have the best units in the game to be able to remotely survive attacks. I say this is crazy. If I am able to spend 20+ million meseta on a set of units, with the second best defensive race and second and third most defensive classes in the game, and ONLY THEN will I not be killed in 2-3 hits... I think that the armor values in this game (or the enemy attack values) are severely unbalanced.

And yes, I KNOW, the best solution is "don't get hit", but I don't think that is the answer to the problem.

[Skyly HUmar]

Well, imo the ex dragon set isnt bad, sure it has 0 t def but theres only a handful of dangerous T attacks in the game and all of them are very easy to see coming. I have been playing like once every 3 weeks though so there may be a better option that im not seeing.

[Husq]

The 6* excube units are pretty decent, even using them in SH mode they should hold up well. The 11* units from XQ should be reachable for most people. With a bit luck you might find a few units doing XQ, so you might not need to farm for that many stones.
The choice of units depends on your own play style, generally you want to those "rare" units for their set bonuses, i.e more attack power, extra PP or resistance towards specific elements and type of attacks.
Unless I'm playing TA, I actually still use the 6* dot units or tiltwin set in SH.
For casual play style the excube, XQ, 5* and 7-9* units are fine, just affix it with abilities that suits the way you play, like adding extra blowresist if you want to tank or more attack power to kill things before they can attack you, and you should be fine.
Alternatively find a nurse, or support player, that looks after you.

[Ordy]

You can also hunt Tagamikazuchi and use the unit set (250/250/250)

Affix them with Soul/P-S-T III and wait for better XQ drops/Red code rewards ...

[WildarmsRE5]

I'm still using vardha set and I'm holding up pretty fine SH. ._.

really depends on the player on how good they can dodge.

actually, vardha with its massive HP boost beats ragne hands down.
oh, I'm a Gu/Ra or Hu/Gu btw. (Gunners never get hit cause YOLO)

[Dnd]

What about Rangers, Forces, Bravers, or the poor Dewmans who have no defense to speak of. What are they supposed to do?

Base defense really doesn't matter, even at 65/65 the difference between the highest and lowest is 50-60 points which (iirc) lowers average damage taken by 12 (Also a side note, newmans are just as bad as dewmans with defensive stats and hp ;))

For Fi/Hu (and vice versa) the crys set is very farmable (I got the entire set in 3 1 hour boss rushing sessions) it gives a nice balance of stats (55 hp/2pp 173 s-def/t-def + 232 r-def - apparently shot resist according to the wiki aswell) A 3 set of 3pp/ 60 to every attack and if you got a weapon it doubles to 6pp/120 to every attack - now that the crys WL and crys caliber drop like candy, its very cheap or even farmable now aswell.

The other option as other people have pointed out is the lucky rise set (spike dot c, i think?) I use it whenever i really need strike resist (Each bit comes with +90 hp/6% strike resist. 226 s-def/135 r-def/91 t-def . 30 dex/3pp and lucky rise - with another 50hp set bonus and 20 s-atk) - although 30 excubes is still alot at the end of the day, lol.

I use the vardha set on my Gu/Ra, when i do get hit its pretty hard in SH but, as long as it isn't a one-shot it doesn't matter to me, lol. (and if its a boosted boss, i just swap to the lucky rise strike resist set to be more tanky)

[gigawuts]

http://pso2.swiki.jp/index.php?%E3%82%BB%E3%83%83%E3%83%88%E5%8A%B9%E6% 9E%9C%EF%BC%88%E5%AE%9F%E6%95%B0%EF%BC%89

all the info you could ever want regarding sets

[Saffran]

Some of the new units are farmable though - I think the Blitz series drops from the "eggs" Emergency trial which means you can farm the FC quest for a 100% chance of that code (the rest is up to luck though) AND (iirc) a 100% chance of a "fall down trap" code happening, which can reward you with one of those superb new units as well.
Likewise, the 2nd Ruins quest with the Dark Keim ? code can give you a nice Minst Rose unit. That code happens very often in the new area (in my opinion - I get at least 2 each run).

There was a quest with a 100% protect code happening but I really don't remember which one.

So as you see, there is a way around it.
Farming whilst wearing the Shoulder Dot C set may or may not improve your luck, I really don't know the mechanics here.
I stuck with my Snow set because it was an odd one (with resists and stigmas and whatnots) but as soon as I complete a newer one, I will change...

Afterthought:
>Sega expects us to have the best units in the game to be able to remotely survive attacks. I say this is crazy.
Nah, not so much. I'm surviving just fine with my Snow Set. Only two or three attacks in the entire SH mode can kill me in one blow, I think that's fair enough.
The new darkers use some of our moves - but somehow the one using Deadly Archer can only hit you twice at the absolute worst.
Most moves do deplete a good chunk, but then again, we're overpowered - vastly overpowered.
Next month we'll be able to farm Darker's Den (more or less), can you imagine how easy that map would be if the monsters were not juiced up?
I'm not asking for challenge for the sake of challenge - we need challenge to force people to do something else than "SRoll-IF" ad nauseum.

[MiraculousNova]

Eh, I'm managing pretty well with my 9* set.
Sure, I die in 2 or 3 hits, but that's already more than I can ask for.
Rarely get oneshotted too, so if I die it's my own mistake.

Just getting a few stamina boosts and/or stamina affixes on one's armor should allow them to get through endgame with relatively little trouble. Besides, this game's genre pretty much follows the formula of having monsters 2 shot you end game, so players should get used to it.

[Maninbluejumpsuit]

I'm not asking for challenge for the sake of challenge - we need challenge to force people to do something else than "SRoll-IF" ad nauseum.

If that's what sega is going for, they should nerf gu/hu rather than buffing enemies to shit on melee, and force harder than gu/hu anyway :-?

[strikerhunter]

Most moves do deplete a good chunk, but then again, we're overpowered - vastly overpowered.
Agree.


Next month we'll be able to farm Darker's Den (more or less), can you imagine how easy that map would be if the monsters were not juiced up?.

Actually that's next week not next month, next month's EQ is the survival EQ that was shown. The DD one comes out next week.



I'm not asking for challenge for the sake of challenge - we need challenge to force people to do something else than "SRoll-IF" ad nauseum.

-Nerf damage, you'll get an uproar.
-Buff up classes, we steam roll everything.
-Buff up enemies, they get nerfed later like acuplus and wolg did.

(main issue could be that the only quest types are just do a dam genocide with the exception of TAs)

All what we really need is smarter/better AIs or like give a lot more move sets to mobs/bosses *looking at you odin* or have enemies being higher levels than cap the current cap level, like literally higher.

[Saffran]

>(main issue could be that the only quest types are just do a dam genocide with the exception of TAs)
True. The damage we inflict to Code Capture bosses should be repelled to the offender, really.
The only semi-exceptioon I see is Amduscia TA, but even then you can simply steamroll everything, the extra codes can be cleared under a minute.

[Ceresa]

My fo with snow kitty units affixed to sta 3 could take 3 hits before dying on SH, only a few boss attacks one shot. My fi with similar units could take 4 hits before dying, only falz train one shots. Seems pretty viable to me. Maybe stop using glass cannon affixes if you lack the skill to support it?

f2p peasants only need to buy premium for one month to convert one hundred vader shits into passes and be set. If they can't afford it, tough shit.

It also doesn't hurt to realize the fact that SH units are only a month old, and VH units lasted a year if you were able to get them right away, so expecting to get a full set of shit right away that will last a long time is rather...

[dr apocalipsis]

My Hu/Fi female newman can take several hits with a Ragne set, with only 80 extra hp from 4x Vol Soul and pure attack skill tree.

And this is just the begining of SH at 65. By the time we hit 75/75 we will be pretty tanky even with older sets. People understimate the def buff from leveling.

Even my FoTe take only half hp from kitties, and that means less than 300hp. There are hunters in the wild with over 1600hp, not counting those pure madness tank Hus builds.

As far as I'm not one hit, I'm ok. Even when I thought I would be tankier with 11* + 3x Ability III.

[Rakurai]

The Calbun set is also somewhat farmable, as the second Desert ARKS quest has a decent chance of spawning the fighter defense ET in the first area.

I actually managed to get a piece from doing this.

[Daemyn]

"All what we really need is smarter/better AIs or like give a lot more move sets to mobs/bosses *looking at you odin* or have enemies being higher levels than cap the current cap level, like literally higher."

Please yes better ai I'm so tired of trash bags for enemies T_T

[D-Inferno]

Thanks to affix prices being dumb right now (Pow/Shoot/Tech IIIs and Spirita Boost prices are stupid atm), making a new unit set is questionable right now.

[UnLucky]

Haha Ragne set

HAHA Fi/Te

Ahem, Vardha, 6* Lucky Rise "Spike" set, or certain XQ armors are all better than Ragne.

Hunter has way more HP than anything else in the game, and their weapons can all block even if you can't Just Guard reliably. I wouldn't suggest the defensive skills, but they're there as well.

Braver can toggle on invincibility at the same time it gets a damage increase. It's obscene. And the Katana can also block/parry.

This isn't a game where you sit and take 5% of your health per hit. If an attack connects, you messed up, plain and simple. Losing only 50% of your health is considered tanky in PSO2.

[WildarmsRE5]

This isn't a game where you sit and take 5% of your health per hit. If an attack connects, you messed up, plain and simple. Losing only 50% of your health is considered tanky in PSO2.I didn't know Human Gu/Ra can be considered "tanks". . .

then those Hu with 1600 hp with MEGA tank build are indestructable? (insert elder pain latent unlocked and they're on god mode?)

That's going to be LOL xD

EDIT: something like this maybe? I dunno how to make a tank build, my 1st attempt http://ryuhiroshi.funpic.de/pso2/skillcalc.php?06gAbnIkbnIkbnIkbnIkbnIkbnIkbnIkcUlz 7bkI4Oj5dgSIqIkHXfcA00000jeOHoGBcBGKcBln0000ib0000 00lb000009b000000lb0000000Ib000008

[Alenoir]

I take guts drink and stay the hell away from any mobs if I know I'm going to get hit for a lot and I can't melt the said mobs fast enough to not get hit more than once.

If that still doesn't work and I can't be arsed enough to either pay for premium or hunt the crap out of whatever unit I'm going after, I'd be inserting HP boosting stuffs into all my units.


PS: Sub hunter. Chew some monomates if you need quick healing, stuff HP B into all your mag's trigger slots. Don't half ass the class.