Wand lover getting buffed

[EvilMag]

http://pso2.jp/players/news/?id=2587

And some other skill. So...free skill tree reset pass?

[NoiseHERO]

Braver getting a buff too...?

Keep forgetting it's pronounced brave-er

What's wand lover again?

Techer needs all the buffs it can get. >_>

[Rien]

"Wand Lovers" being buffed

Braver's "action rate" being buffed

I think it means Bravers will attack faster now on both bow and katana

[Metis]

"Wand Lovers" being buffed

Braver's "action rate" being buffed

I think it means Bravers will attack faster now on both bow and katana

That's what it seems like.

[Kikikiki]

Would be silly if it was as fast as the trailer displays as it is.

[Kondibon]

Wand lovers getting buffed better mean something like bonus damage for it's duration and not just lasting longer because the skill is already almost permanently maintainable with only 1 point anyway. :I

[Zenobia]

Ho ho Braver getting a buff eh? Nice lets see what action rate boost does for em~!

[Kondibon]

Ho ho Braver getting a buff eh? Nice lets see what action rate boost does for em~!

I hope it's something like letting you attack sooner between certain PAs. We could all do with faster Sakuras.

[Takatsuki]

...And yet they still won't fix Photon Flare...

[Zenobia]

I hope it's something like letting you attack sooner between certain PAs. We could all do with faster Sakuras.

Wouldn't mind that actually some PA's need it like Gekka Zakuro and Asagiri Rendan not that some may still be using it, but its a start.

[Kondibon]

...And yet they still won't fix Photon Flare...
Pft, I know right?


Wouldn't mind that actually some PA's need it like Gekka Zakuro and Asagiri Rendan not that some may still be using it, but its a start.I forgot those existed. :D Yes, they could use it. I might start using Asagiri again if it gets faster.

[Zenobia]

Oh snap now that I think about it if Bravers action rate is gonna get buffed I wonder if that means their charged moves will too would make sense....omg.

[Kondibon]

Oh snap now that I think about it if Bravers action rate is gonna get buffed I wonder if that means their charged moves will too would make sense....omg.

I feel it's either going to be lowered time between attacks, or faster charging, but not both. ;;

[Xaelouse]

Hopefully sega doesn't just think giving wand lovers some damage boost will fix the class. Giving wands a ranged option during it would though but that's effort.

[Saffran]

I really don't see how you can buff Wand Lovers. It puts your PP to 0 and brings your Gage to the max with only even 1 point in it, there's nothing you can "buff" in there.
I'm guessing they could lower the cost to get to it in the tree (and I would welcome it) but let's not get our hopes too high.

As for the Braver moves, they might fix some animations, I suppose, but I don't really see which ones. SakuraEnd, Kanran and Hatôrindô are all fine. (hint hint)

[Macman]

Wand lovers is still functionally useless.
Let's see, I could completely remove a core aspect of gameplay for max gear, or cast Zan once or twice for max gear, AND still have PP left to heal if I need it! Plus it's kind of silly how there's virtually no difference between having 1 pixel on your gauge versus having the thing maxed.
You'd have to give it a hefty damage bonus to be worth anything.

I'm interested in what they have in store for Braver, though.

[Scale of Judgment]

wand lover makes you deadlock with fighter sub/main with pp slayer. That is the only use I can think of for it.

[Arada]

That's exactly not the skill that required a buff as a TE. -_-

Well, unless the buff is "we're removing it".

[gigawuts]

Wand lovers getting buffed better mean something like bonus damage for it's duration and not just lasting longer because the skill is already almost permanently maintainable with only 1 point anyway. :I

How to fix Wand Lovers:
No PP penalty
No automatic gear filling
All damage will fill gear - wand strike, wand gear, uncharged techs, etc.
Automatically set off a minimum of 1 explosion per lit gear bar (that means 1 at 0 gear, 3 at max gear)
Having the skill allows PP to refill from the gear explosion whether the skill is active or not

How to fix Braver's attack speeds:
Uh, they're fine? Maybe "action rate" is the 90 second cooldown on Katana Combat. It shouldn't be more than 70 seconds tbh, or Katana Combat should last 30 seconds. No comment on whether Combat Escape should/shouldn't last that long.

[Kondibon]

How to fix Wand Lovers:
No PP penalty
No automatic gear filling
All damage will fill gear - wand strike, wand gear, uncharged techs, etc.
Automatically set off a minimum of 1 explosion per lit gear bar (that means 1 at 0 gear, 3 at max gear)
Having the skill allows PP to refill from the gear explosion whether the skill is active or not

How to fix Braver's attack speeds:
Uh, they're fine? Maybe "action rate" is the 90 second cooldown on Katana Combat. It shouldn't be more than 70 seconds tbh, or Katana Combat should last 30 seconds. No comment on whether Combat Escape should/shouldn't last that long.There's all kinds of things they could do to fix wander lovers, I just think a damage bonus is the most we can hope for. ;;

I still think the braver thing is gonna be shortening the delay between some of the attacks and maybe speeding up some of the animations. I mean Sakura End is strong, but it's also really slow, to the point where people debate how to make it faster. >_>

Decreasing cool downs would be welcome though. :3

[gigawuts]

Hm, maybe it means the delay between charge pulses on SE, kanran, and HR?

[Atmius]

I kinda hope it reduces the cooldown period on active skills like katana combat and rapid shoot.

[Rien]

I think it's speeding up the delays bows get for transitioning between shooting and running and other things.

Step attacking with those things is kinda funny.

Of course, I believe they'd do something to katanas as well, but so far I think bows will get the most impact.

[gigawuts]

Well, if they're going to specifically mention wand lovers for techer, but mention braver in general, I doubt it's going to just be bows. Not to say they won't do that, but I feel like they'd have been more specific. I have a feeling they intentionally made some of the class's animations a bit slow at release (for both weapons), and now they're going to speed those animations up. I mean, SE has a terribly slow animation, so does bow step attack, but hatou rindou is just fine.

[Zenobia]

Now that I think about it action rate could be anything at this moment and boy I would love a skill for Braver that made active skills like KC cool off faster oh yes.

[Gardios]

Techer buffs?! Fucking finall--


Wand Lovers

http://i.imgur.com/qqIPUQK.jpg

[Kikikiki]

Techer buffs?! Fucking finall--



http://i.imgur.com/qqIPUQK.jpg

[spoiler-box]http://dickinabox.net/funneh/unamused_wallpaper.jpg[/spoiler-box]

[SakoHaruo]

What, no Fi/Hu buff!? no Deadly Archer damage buff? :(


Anyway the speed of Braver's normal attacks are fine as is, Sakura End is the only charge PA that needs to have a bit of start up and recovery removed. I think they're talking about Braver's Step Attack or Katana Combat, though.

[holmwood]

If only there was a wand specific PA.... The only issue is their low damage output from having to rely on normal attacks.

Well, I wouldn't be too optimistic with any of this. Sega likes to troll people after all. :-?
I predict at least the dash attacks will be made faster for braver as it is currently pretty slow.

------
Edit:
So actually, I'm a little optimistic, mostly for the free skill reset. There's already a good deal of backlash from the japanese community about wand lovers getting buffed. I don't think Sakai will troll all those people by putting something stupid like extending duration...

[NoiseHERO]

Maybe they're shortening the animation you do when using the katana combat pose that can get cancelled easily.

But in that case EVERY buff could use that fix.

[TaigaUC]

How SEGA will probably buff/fix Wand Lovers:
500% damage on next melee attack after casting.

Braver action speed sounds like lobby actions will playback faster if your main is Braver.

[Zyrusticae]

Man, talk about a vague-ass statement. "Oh, we're going to buff Wand Lovers and something we refer to as Braver action speed, look forward to it!" Wait, get back here and define "action speed", you bastards!

Not that I really felt like Braver needs buffs, but I'll take what I can get regardless. Fewer animation delays across the board would certainly make it feel nicer.

[TaigaUC]

Patch notes:
Braver now dances faster than other classes.

[gigawuts]

Patch notes:
Braver now dances faster than other classes.

New skill confirmed
http://puu.sh/5rd3s.png

[NoiseHERO]

10% might not seem like a lot for 10 SP.

But if your partys uses the mimmic emote they all move at the same buffed speed, making you the alpha-male of lobby dances.

Yes only alpha-male.

[The Walrus]

But I want to be alpha loli ;_;

[gigawuts]

Now, I know what you're thinking.

"But Giga, that skill sounds really bad!"

Don't worry! It's meant to go with another skill.

http://puu.sh/5rfi8.png

Don't ask where Gardios got this information. Many bothans died etc.etc.

[Edson Drake]

^I wish I could "like" posts, but let's leave at that.

[Inazuma]

Sega, please stop trying to make Tector into a melee class. Almost every class in the game is a melee class. Why can't we have two classes dedicated to casting techs, so players like me can focus on that?

Photon Flare still desperately needs to be fixed, and so does wand casting speed.

[The Walrus]

But Techer is supposed to be battlemage/support...not that it does either particularly well...

Though I suppose Wind is still a good way for them to kill things.

[Terrence]

Wand Lovers makes you deadlock with FIghter sub/main with PP Slayer. That is the only use I can think of for it.
Yes, YES !!! I would like to see that since the synergy between FIghter and TEcher is really great already... But it would not be called Wand Lovers anymore. So, we all know SEGA will never do that ! =/

THIS would make my day...

[SPOILER-BOX]
http://i.imgur.com/8OeSdxv.png[/SPOILER-BOX]

[Xaelouse]

Yes, YES !!! I would like to see that since the synergy between FIghter and TEcher is really great already... But it would not be called Wand Lovers anymore. So, we all know SEGA will never do that ! =/

THIS would make my day...

[SPOILER-BOX]
http://i.imgur.com/8OeSdxv.png[/SPOILER-BOX]

lvl3 gear Overend all day? this would help HU main a ton

[Terrence]

lvl3 gear Overend all day?
With PP oriented units only (which HUnters rarely have). HUnters spamming Overend all day are obviously doing something wrong, anyway.

[Xaelouse]

at consistent lvl3 gear yeah they would start using Overend at any chance they get

[cheapgunner]

Why not spam sonic arrows, guilty breaks and ride slashes all day, evry day. Overend is like saying to certain mobs "Hit me! Hit me! Hit me!" during the first two swings.

[Terrence]

Indeed. Sonic Arrow is a way better choice with a full Gear Jauge.

[Xaelouse]

Mobbing is kinda irrelevant since they die to anything. This is why Forces aren't considered very good anymore since that was their entire game and Gunner does that well....all the while being S-tier at bosses. Hunter is like C-tier right now and any access to higher damage output with less work would be much more welcome.

Edit: Pso-w sure like to take things too literally.

[cheapgunner]

Think it would be better for hunters is to change guard stance like they did fury stance to percent boosting and change sword gear a bit so they can charge itself when damaged by an enemy and absorption to include fury stance.

Feel a bit inadequate when running with hunter as main. Maybe let swords utilize certain katana pa's w/o braver being main/sub.

[Rien]

Simply make Over End a single overhead swing LIKE THEY DID IN EVERY OTHER GAME

seriously how hard is it

even Dragon Ex/Noir Draal does it the old way

[KazukiQZ]

^Or make the damage spread of each swing equal. Only the 3rd slash have the most damage output :/

And the coming-soon Bow PA, Final Nemesis is kinda like OE final slash, just a ranged-type.

[gigawuts]

Over End is fine - it's the name of the move that's not. It's practically false advertising.

[UnLucky]

Why can't we have two classes dedicated to casting techs, so players like me can focus on that?

Sega, please let Fury Stance apply to tech damage.

Thanks.

[The Walrus]

Then everyone can sub Hunter \o/

[hoangsea]

te/hu is horrible now
i hope they made some changes that player can happy with that combine

[Radical Dreamer]

I'd like it more if Sega buffed the support side of Techer, but I'll take anything I can get at this point.

[EvilMag]

heres how you buff techer.

talis ja boost on techer tree.

incoming opness in 3...2...1..

[gigawuts]

heres how you buff techer.

talis ja boost on techer tree.

incoming opness in 3...2...1..

And PP revival and fixed wand casting delays.

Techer becomes standalone, sub whatever you want.

[EvilMag]

And PP revival and fixed wand casting delays.

Techer becomes standalone, sub whatever you want.

You know before they revealed the new skills for SH I actually suggested a talis boost skill for techers.

Guess they read my suggestion but felt techers need to suck more so they put it on the fo tree.

[Zenobia]

Simply make Over End a single overhead swing LIKE THEY DID IN EVERY OTHER GAME

seriously how hard is it

even Dragon Ex/Noir Draal does it the old way

How it should have been first few seconds.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bSNrByAirtY"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bSNrByAirtY

[UnLucky]

If you weren't spamming Monado Buster you were doing it wrong.

Battle Soul -> (Light Heal) -> Buster all day every day

[Rakurai]

I think they ought to make some of the skills in the Ranger/Gunner tree that apply to ranged attacks apply to tech attacks as well. Then there'd actually be a reason to use them as subs for Force/Techer.

[Zenobia]

If you weren't spamming Monado Buster you were doing it wrong.

Battle Soul -> (Light Heal) -> Buster all day every day

^This caught a jolly err time I spammed that move and mauled mobs.

[TaigaUC]

I still think Techer should just have been built around the concept of using techs without having to charge, not charging to increase melee damage.

Yes, I just want a caster without charging. The charging feels so slow and isn't satisfying at all.
Maybe if charging had some kind of fancy rune system with visuals like NaMegid.


Don't ask where Gardios got this information. Many bothans died etc.etc.

Magnificent.
I like how we lose the speed bonus for a 10% increase in damage. Very SEGA-like.

The saddest part is most people would spec for dancing and it'd probably actually be fun.

[gigawuts]

Sega's biggest problem? The absolute top issue?

They refuse to give different classes any of the same skills that aren't static point ups.

JA Bonus is needed on fighter, desperately. Does it get it? No. Instead it gets bizarre and difficult to properly balance skills like Chase, which won't work on bosses, and Crazy skills, which are either completely useless or an always-on buff depending on the area you go to.

Techer needs tech JA advance. Does it get it? No.

A lot of class issues could be resolved if Sega would approach balance from a more pragmatic, less compartmentalized position. Classes are a blending of roles, it only makes sense that they'll share bonuses.

Instead they're making amateur mistakes most game companies learned not to do like 15 years ago. This shit will not fit into a neat package, because it is not a neat selection of things with defined edges. Classes are grey areas and should be treated as such.

[Kondibon]

Sega's biggest problem? The absolute top issue?

They refuse to give different classes any of the same skills that aren't static point ups.

JA Bonus is needed on fighter, desperately. Does it get it? No. Instead it gets bizarre and difficult to properly balance skills like Chase, which won't work on bosses, and Crazy skills, which are either completely useless or an always-on buff depending on the area you go to.

Techer needs tech JA advance. Does it get it? No.

A lot of class issues could be resolved if Sega would approach balance from a more pragmatic, less compartmentalized position. Classes are a blending of roles, it only makes sense that they'll share bonuses.

Instead they're making amateur mistakes most game companies learned not to do like 15 years ago. This shit will not fit into a neat package, because it is not a neat selection of things with defined edges. Classes are grey areas and should be treated as such.

I feel like the game needs a separate general skill tree specifically for skills that affect every class. The only problem I could come up with would be how it gains skill points.

[holmwood]

You'd think they'd learn after revising Fury stance to % damage... but nope. Someone over at Sakai's harem needs to get fired for putting s atk boost under wand reactor... >_>

[gigawuts]

I feel like the game needs a separate general skill tree specifically for skills that affect every class. The only problem I could come up with would be how it gains skill points.

I've wanted a general skilltree for ages, but it would give you the option of having traps or support techs instead of more generic damage or tanking options. You'd just have a second subclass section with a trap option and a tech option, with skills to increase capacity, let you drop them instantly while moving instead of set them with an animation, etc. Traps would obviously get a pretty huge buff and ranger would be reworked a bit. Resta would be changed to be a base healing amount + a percentage of what it does now (it currently scales directly with base + affixed tatk, weapon tatk has no effect. This is why subbing a tech class gets you such horrible resta).

Pigeonholing support to classes that aren't very good at it was a bad plan. Pigeonholing traps to a class that's more about omgwtf damage than anything else was an even worse one.

[Kondibon]

Pigeonholing support to classes that aren't very good at it was a bad plan. Pigeonholing traps to a class that's more about omgwtf damage than anything else was an even worse one.
I feel ranger is actually a support class, but support is just so poor in this game that all range has left is damage. The reason Techer is behind is because it has nothing to fall back on like ranger does.

That said, I do think traps should be seperate from ranger anyway, and bullets other than weak bullet need to be buffed.

When I said things that affect all classes I should have said multiple classes though, because I think things like Element Weak hit, Snatch Step, and everything on the step tree should be universal even though they technically don't affect every class.

[gigawuts]

I think ranger was supposed to be a support class, but fell flat on its face with that role and was given stupid high multipliers at the same time. It's where jellen and zalure (aka weak bullet now) went, after all.

[Kondibon]

I think ranger was supposed to be a support class, but fell flat on its face with that role and was given stupid high multipliers at the same time. It's where jellen and zalure (aka weak bullet now) went, after all.Well all of the classes were that were SUPPOSED to be something other than pure dps fell short. What I meant to say though, is that Ranger isn't bad at support. Support is just bad in general. I do still fantasize about my dream TE/RA support build but I digress.

[TaigaUC]

Yeah, I've also thought that a general skill tree would make a hell of a lot more sense.

More focus on support and defense would be nice, too.
But I guess they don't want to deal with the problems of random groups not having the necessary classes for certain encounters.

[Kondibon]

I really wish developers would realize that having powerful support doesn't suddenly make it a necessity. It bugs me that the only support skill worth using is Weak Bullet. :/ I think they should have made super treatment an active skill instead of a situational buff. Deband and shifta need to just have one tick that gives the full time, and a larger base AoE. Extend assist shouldn't require multiple casts, etc.

EDIT: I think the players are partly to blame as well. People get into this "fend for yourself" mode and build their characters to be self sufficient, which is fine, if you're soloing or just messing around with something you've never done before. But the whole point of support is to take some of that off the other people so they can focus on something else, like say, damage.

MOAR EDIT: Simpler way to put it. I think self sufficiency should be viable, but that multiple role specialization should be more efficient.

[gigawuts]

I really wish developers would realize that having powerful support doesn't suddenly make it a necessity. It bugs me that the only support skill worth using is Weak Bullet. :/ I think they should have made super treatment an active skill instead of a situational buff. Deband and shifta need to just have one tick that gives the full time, and a larger base AoE. Extend assist shouldn't require multiple casts, etc.

EDIT: I think the players are partly to blame as well. People get into this "fend for yourself" mode and build their characters to be self sufficient, which is fine, if you're soloing or just messing around with something you've never done before. But the whole point of support is to take some of that off the other people so they can focus on something else, like say, damage.

MOAR EDIT: Simpler way to put it. I think self sufficiency should be viable, but that multiple role specialization should be more efficient.

It's because they didn't design the game so you can do two roles competently, even if speccing into one. That's what the most successful F2P, and multiplayer RPGs in general, tend to do.

Skills frequently have multiple effects, support or defense skills are packed into offensive trees, offensive skills are packed into defensive trees, etc. Something like +.5% max hp healed per second for 5 seconds when you get a headshot could be in the offensive area of ranger's tree, for instance. +35% damage to enemies aggroed on you could be in the defensive area of hunter's tree.

The trees lacking that, and instead being WAY overspecced with the most powerful multipliers at the end of the spec branches is what reeks of amateurism. The whole thing is really poorly designed.

Skilltrees aren't there for customization in PSO2, they're there to complete your class. There's a very significant difference. Borderlands and Torchlight are examples of customization with self-sufficiency in multiple roles even despite pure specialization. Guild Wars 2 handles it fairly well, too.

[Kondibon]

Skilltrees aren't there for customization in PSO2, they're there to complete your class. There's a very significant difference. Borderlands and Torchlight are examples of customization with self-sufficiency in multiple roles even despite pure specialization. Guild Wars 2 handles it fairly well, too.

I was actually going to bring up guild wars 2 because they're good about that. My elementalist is built for staff support, which most people frown upon, but I'm REALLY good at it. People stop complaining when you're removing all their conditions and healing half their every 10 seconds. And when no one needs healing/cleansing I can still do damage, not as much as everyone else, but enough to still hold my own.

The problem with PSO2, like you said, is that the skill trees are too polarized, you have to go all or nothing into stuff. Braver is the only class that actually manages to hybrid well and that's simply because it has two main weapons instead of one like Techer and Gunner do.

Then there's the fact that actually using support is as intuitive as trying to sew with boxing gloves on, due to the whole limited range and tick mechanic. I've used Mabinogi as an example before but the bard buffs in it are worlds better than shifta and deband despite only being able to apply one at a time, and having shorter durations, for three reasons: they do multiple (useful) things by default, the AoE to apply them is HUGE, and they don't take forever to cast. Hell I can say the same thing about my support ele in GW2. I think that's what support needs the most right now. More easily applied stuff.

*rantrant*

[TaigaUC]

I was thinking of role-specific crap like in WoW raids used to need specific classes to remove specific debuffs and such.
No idea what it's like now, just heard it's dumbed down.

I hate specialization anyway. I prefer to be able to do everything decently well, just like in real life.
Can't stand being pigeon-holed.

I'd like to be able to do stuff in PSO2 like shield allies from attacks or create beneficial territory to encourage strategic positioning.
Never gonna happen though.

[Kondibon]

I'd like to be able to do stuff in PSO2 like shield allies from attacks or create beneficial territory to encourage strategic positioning.
Never gonna happen though.You can actually do that with Just guard. :wacko:

But no, I wasn't talking about the holy trinity or anything. I just think there needs to be an incentive to specialize in something besides damage without ruining everything else. I don't think it should be REQUIRED, just more efficient.

[Zyrusticae]

I find Guild Wars 2 to be an odd example, considering everyone in that game is a generalist to a fault, which results in group fights being a clusterfuck more often than not (though it doesn't help that it doesn't have the clean tells and hit detection of PSO2).

It also has the issue of having too much freedom, to the point where players create monster builds that lay far outside the realm of what the developers intended (see: Elementalist ultimate tank builds). Don't know how much that's changed since the last time I played, however, since there have been several major balance patches since then... something PSO2 could really use in spades.


That said, I do think traps should be seperate from ranger anyway, and bullets other than weak bullet need to be buffed.

You can't buff the other bullets to be on par with Weak Bullet. It literally isn't possible (because bullets like Bind Bullet and Panic Shot exist, and they don't work on bosses). Even if you just made them apply the status effect on every shot for the entire duration they still wouldn't be worth using over Weak Bullet.

You would have to scrap those skills entirely and replace them with something that actually works on bosses. Either that, or make it so that they DO work on bosses, only with a different effect (something that would also help Freeze and Poison Ignition skills).

[redroses]

I was actually going to bring up guild wars 2 because they're good about that. My elementalist is built for staff support, which most people frown upon, but I'm REALLY good at it. People stop complaining when you're removing all their conditions and healing half their every 10 seconds. And when no one needs healing/cleansing I can still do damage, not as much as everyone else, but enough to still hold my own.

The problem with PSO2, like you said, is that the skill trees are too polarized, you have to go all or nothing into stuff. Braver is the only class that actually manages to hybrid well and that's simply because it has two main weapons instead of one like Techer and Gunner do.

Then there's the fact that actually using support is as intuitive as trying to sew with boxing gloves on, due to the whole limited range and tick mechanic. I've used Mabinogi as an example before but the bard buffs in it are worlds better than shifta and deband despite only being able to apply one at a time, and having shorter durations, for three reasons: they do multiple (useful) things by default, the AoE to apply them is HUGE, and they don't take forever to cast. Hell I can say the same thing about my support ele in GW2. I think that's what support needs the most right now. More easily applied stuff.

*rantrant*

I actually have no idea how they messed up support this badly in PSO2, when it was actually done pretty well in PSU.
I will never understand why the added the tick system to begin with, they even made the range smaller and the duration shorter of buffs then they were in PSU.
The ticks are the biggest problem in my opinion (in combination with the short range), because the areas in PSO2 are much bigger then in PSU. This means, people will often move a lot around and won't get all the ticks from your buffs. Also casting and waiting for all ticks to apply just takes too long for such little pay off, seeing as the buffs wear off after a minute (and it only makes it even more annoying if you get the extend assist skill). People already didn't have patience to wait for an acrotecher to buff 5 buffs on them, which probably took the same amount of time as applying shifta once in PSO2, so most players don't wait around for you to buff them either.

Also, I miss giresta, a buff that not only let you revive fallen party members, but actually had a regen effect, that even stacked. Meaning, if you had full health, the regen effect would still occur and when you got hit, you would auto heal the amount that has been stored. Faster casting speed was also awesome to be able to apply buffs faster. And they had whips, which applied SEs at a very high rate, which was always helpful for bosses and enemies (like stun, freeze, burn etc.).

[Touka]

I actually have no idea how they messed up support this badly in PSO2, when it was actually done pretty well in PSU.
I will never understand why the added the tick system to begin with, they even made the range smaller and the duration shorter of buffs then they were in PSU.
The ticks are the biggest problem in my opinion (in combination with the short range), because the areas in PSO2 are much bigger then in PSU. This means, people will often move a lot around and won't get all the ticks from your buffs. Also casting and waiting for all ticks to apply just takes too long for such little pay off, seeing as the buffs wear off after a minute (and it only makes it even more annoying if you get the extend assist skill). People already didn't have patience to wait for an acrotecher to buff 5 buffs on them, which probably took the same amount of time as applying shifta once in PSO2, so most players don't wait around for you to buff them either.

Couldn't have said it better.While I don't mind charging techs I think support techs should be non chargeable and instant for the reasons you mentioned.I played support fo in previous games and all fo is in this game is pure nuke which bores the shit out of me.

[Kondibon]

You can't buff the other bullets to be on par with Weak Bullet. It literally isn't possible (because bullets like Bind Bullet and Panic Shot exist, and they don't work on bosses). Even if you just made them apply the status effect on every shot for the entire duration they still wouldn't be worth using over Weak Bullet.

You would have to scrap those skills entirely and replace them with something that actually works on bosses. Either that, or make it so that they DO work on bosses, only with a different effect (something that would also help Freeze and Poison Ignition skills).I don't think I said anything about making them as good as weak bullet. Hell, I still think Weak Bullet needs a nerf. I do agree about them not working on bosses, but at this point I'd rather they just balance the game so there's not as big a gap between someone in average gear, and someone with +10 10* star 5 affix gear.

People talk about bosses because they're the only things that normally live long enough for debuffs to actually be useful, but I find things like that useful all the time because I'm not oneshotting trash mobs.

I do think they should be replaced with more useful status effects, like shock or something.

As for the GW2 stuff I brought that up specifically because of the generalization. The classes are good at multiple things, the traits and skills are used to make them BETTER at stuff. Whereas in PSO2 most things either require lots of investment just to be useable, or are so important to the class that people will deride you for not getting them (weak bullet, charge pp revival, and just guard, I'm looking at you).



Also, I miss giresta, a buff that not only let you revive fallen party members, but actually had a regen effect, that even stacked. Meaning, if you had full health, the regen effect would still occur and when you got hit, you would auto heal the amount that has been stored. Faster casting speed was also awesome to be able to apply buffs faster. And they had whips, which applied SEs at a very high rate, which was always helpful for bosses and enemies (like stun, freeze, burn etc.).
I have no idea why giresta isn't here. It would be great, even if it didn't revive.

Also, I feel things like faster casting speed, or lowered PP costs for techs (or in general) should become weapon latents and maybe affixes, instead of just skills that only cover a specific element. It bugs me how most of the latents are just bigger numbers.

Weapons applying status effects actually isn't that big of a deal. I just wish the affix system wasn't so RNG. Like. Do they have to compound randomness like that? At LEAST let us not have to risk our current affixes when adding new ones.

[Terrence]

The reason Techer is behind is because it has nothing to fall back on like ranger does.
Make Shifta/Deband Advance apply to final ATK/DEF and not base ones. Fixed. (and maybe a little overpowered with current values)

[UnLucky]

I actually have no idea how they messed up support this badly in PSO2
Someone find a game with worse support than PSO2, I would love to see that. Well not including WB, since the list would be way too long in that case.

Shifta/Deband are worse in every single way than any other Phantasy Star. Shorter, weaker, smaller, longer to cast...

[Xaelouse]

they were thinking about how those skills are applying to up to 12 people, which makes sense for shifta but not really deband. For that, deband should always have the more noticeable skills that modify it in the techer tree, if that datamined deband iron will is anything to go by.

[Sandmind]

I dunno, if sega was worrying about that, they would had made monsters scale up for each players in the current map when they spawn (ignoring npc).

[cheapgunner]

Would be better if they went down the Gearbox path and increase the creatures stats and AI skills when more human players are in the party. I dont sse Sega nerfing Wb anytime soon.

[TaigaUC]

There's still zero purpose in not charging most techs.
They could have built on that for optional gameplay style depth, but no.

The ONLY non-charged tech related skill gives something like +10% damage, but everything still costs the same PP, and at a ridiculously huge damage loss compared to charged.
They've probably never even tried it themselves.

Not to mention that techs function differently without charging.
The uncharged versions could've been another layer of gameplay style depth too, but no.
Why bother putting in a "weak" version if nobody ever uses them?

I don't think they've even considered designing and keeping some techs as instant (eg. Shifta/Deband could use instant casting).
Some moron probably just said, "let's make them all require charging" and nobody questioned it.

Well, NaZonde and NaBarta are instant, I guess. Fairly recent techs.

[Macman]

Yeah, the lack of depth behind uncharged techs seems like one of the biggest wastes of potential in this game as far as Force gameplay goes.

I mean aside from Anti, the only tech I regularly use uncharged is Razan for quickly knocking things down so I can hit their weak points with Zonde.

Imagine if it worked like PSZ. In that game, an uncharged Foie was your regular fireball spell, but if you charged it, it changed to Rafoie, you'd lob a larger fireball in an arc and it would explode on contact.
But in that game you just got a good hit wand with Celeb 5 and made use of the insane MST-based melee with Magical Sign to murder everything...

[hoangsea]

sorry for digging this topic
but are these buff apply yet ?

[Ezodagrom]

sorry for digging this topic
but are these buff apply yet ?
No, and no date yet about when they will be added.

[Sienna]

Te buff super exciting, surely it will help Te become the leading force for good

Techs? What techs? Man up and bludgeon your quandaries!
Play whack-a-mole with your friendly Garongo!
Experience the tantalizing experience of Mirage Escaping from a Dagan!

But wait, there's more
For the added joy of a (or 11) commited GuHu partner(s) in crime, you too will be able to stare in awe as everyhing you touch merely withers away!

So uh
Condensed and efficient Fo / Te trees when

[UnLucky]

Well if they can actually make it unique and interesting and worthwhile, then I don't care how different Techer ends up from Force.

Just so long as it's not inferior in every way that matters, and slightly better in some insignificant way that in no way makes up for it.

[Zipzo]

Well if they can actually make it unique and interesting and worthwhile, then I don't care how different Techer ends up from Force.

Just so long as it's not inferior in every way that matters, and slightly better in some insignificant way that in no way makes up for it.

You're cute.

[NoiseHERO]

That sexual tension between two men with little girl avatars about to throw down!

[Kondibon]

Since this thread seems to slowly be reviving... Is there any new info on what exactly any of this means yet or is Sega still leaving us in the dark?


That sexual tension between two men with little girl avatars about to throw down!
I don't know if I should criticize you or commend you...

[gigawuts]

They haven't said yet afaik, but I'm sure it'll just be a 5-25% damage bonus depending on the SP you spend in the skill.

Oh, players think the skill is fine at 3 SP? We can't have that. The bonus scaling per level will be as such:
2 (gotta start good), 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 12, 25

And then a new skill is added: Melee Convert.
+50% melee damage during PP Convert. Requires 5 SP in PP convert. Have fun with those skilltrees and fistpumps!

[Shinmarizu]

I stared at the Force and Techer skill trees and attempted a small exercise in streamlining and modifying them on a simple Excel sheet. In maybe 30 minutes and with fairly small modifications, I'd say they're tons better than Sega has right now, and I could mod the other class trees in a very similar way. (Braver's tree is on the right track. Pretty much based this exercise on the Br tree.)

When you realize that (1) anyone of us here can do that with one hand tied behind their back, (2) even if you make small changes to the system or any of the given skills, any tree can be improved drastically without reinventing them… you realize just how bad it actually is.

Which begs the question: Will this 'change' be sensible, or extreme? Promote gameplay for the class, or screw balance yet again? Almost always the latter.

[TaigaUC]

Remember when they said they were buffing ice and the "buffs" ended up being spread out over several negligible skills that extend all the way down the tree? Yeah.

I get the feeling Wand Lovers is going to see something similar.
Wand Lovers -> Wand Maniacs -> Wand Addicts -> Wand Worship -> Wand Rapture -> Wand Eternity
... for a total of +5% damage costing around 30 skill points.


When you realize that (1) anyone of us here can do that with one hand tied behind their back, (2) even if you make small changes to the system or any of the given skills, any tree can be improved drastically without reinventing them… you realize just how bad it actually is.


It's the mindset that matters.
We want to make the game fun.
They want us to waste time and coax us into buying new tree tickets.

[Shinmarizu]

It's the mindset that matters.
We want to make the game fun.
They want us to waste time and coax us into buying new tree tickets.

Almost want to share my work and get feedback here. Then again, I have no influence with Sega, so as fun and stimulating as this can be, it will not produce actual change.

Most of us want to this game to improve so badly that when we see Sega twiddling their thumbs with sad excuses for 'best efforts', we get visibly angry. And I believe that it's due to a few fundamental things:

1) They are unwilling to actually rewrite the arrangement or code for a given tree.
2) They are unwilling to actually reduce the given numeric value for a modifier at whatever level it is. (Fury Stance was the only exception, IIRC. )
3) They are unwilling to actually remove a skill or or modify its parameters (maximum SP, required SP to access, etc.).
4) They are unwilling to actually define the purpose of a given class and its impact on the gamestate.

Which leads to, at the very least:

1) A very poorly designed skill tree with newer skills simply tacked onto ends of branches.
2) Bigger damage modifiers as the only degree of improvement.
3) Wasted SP on skills which are useless.
4) Classes which have no use as a main until Sega buffs them in a ridiculous manner.

I understand this has all been said before, but I needed the space to vent. After all, I want to enjoy this game and I want this game to improve.

EDIT: Yes, they are starting to change SP requirements and maximums, but how much complaining did that take?

[ChiffonFairchild]

I just want a reason to actually use Elysion (at best it looks pretty) and it's potential as a Techer.....no point in even bothering when the uncharged tech damage as it is pitiful. Saw a 65/65 TE/FO using uncharged and.....I just don't know, why even bother? Eff Techer, eff Force though TE/HU is fun as eff to play.

Anyways, if there's one impossible thing I'd like to see and it has been mentioned before: switching classes AND/OR skill trees mid quest. I'd live with all the crap now if this were possible. IMPOSSIBLE. I know.....

[Shinmarizu]

I just want a reason to actually use Elysion (at best it looks pretty) and it's potential as a Techer.....no point in even bothering when the uncharged tech damage as it is pitiful. Saw a 65/65 TE/FO using uncharged and.....I just don't know, why even bother? Eff Techer, eff Force though TE/HU is fun as eff to play.

Anyways, if there's one impossible thing I'd like to see and it has been mentioned before: switching classes AND/OR skill trees mid quest. I'd live with all the crap now if this were possible. IMPOSSIBLE. I know.....

Just curious what techs you saw this TE/FO use. Considering which techs got the huge powerspikes at Lv16 and the particular skill set for Elysion being pushed, this does matter a fair bit.

[ChiffonFairchild]

Just curious what techs you saw this TE/FO use. Considering which techs got the huge powerspikes at Lv16 and the particular skill set for Elysion being pushed, this does matter a fair bit.

Sazonde, Zonde, and Sazan mainly~

[Shinmarizu]

So the usual suspects. From what I've heard, the damage from those uncharged (minus Zonde) should be rather ridiculous… but this is more of a burst of rapid-fire tech slinging (with PP convert on most likely) with a dedicated build behind it.

Considering that this supposed buff for Wand Lovers will focus on the melee side of Techer, that TE/FO could very well be a FO/TE and produce the same results, and not be affected by this anyways. As for everyone who does not have Elysion, are we all going to be 'encouraged' to be TE/HU now, especially if they break Techer?

I look at what they did to Gunner and can only imagine (1) the same thing or (2) the complete opposite.

[UnLucky]

Sazonde actually does more damage per tick uncharged, but has half the number of ticks.
Sazan does half the damage uncharged, but has the same number of hits.
Most other techs do about 1/3 damage, plus shorter range/AoE and fewer hits.

So with Elysion's potential at lv3, you can do about the same amount of damage per cast. The real benefit here is you don't have to spend time charging your techs.

Though you lose Tech Charge Advance and Charge PP Revival, and you can't get Weak Stance Charge from Braver, either. Plus you obviously don't get Talis Tech Bonus, since Elysion is a wand.

But you can totally go Fo/Fi with it, since Force can equip it! 'Cept you'd probably want Wind Mastery for Sazan..

[pkemr4]

do people just use the Rear power stance for Fo/Fi...?

[Emp]

do people just use the Rear power stance for Fo/Fi...?

If u mean wise stance, then no not really. Brave stance is ur main stance as fo/fi, since.everything is gonna be facing towards u as u start casting. Wise stance however is good on ragne, mizer, ect.

[TaigaUC]

I was thinking that most of the weapon latents ought to be on skill trees instead.
Significant variations in gameplay shouldn't be limited to extremely rare luck-based randomness.

[UnLucky]

Most of the (good) weapon latents ARE on skill trees

[TaigaUC]

I'd sure like to see Elysion's latent on a skill tree.
Well, technically it is... in a much, much weaker way.

[UnLucky]

I'd like to see Motav Prophecy's latent on a skill tree, too..

[Gama]

i wonder how much will it cost me to unlock Elysion's potential...

grinding it to 10 was a nightmare.

[ChiffonFairchild]

i wonder how much will it cost me to unlock Elysion's potential...

grinding it to 10 was a nightmare.

Spent 2mil (all on 7 grind protect fulls) to get Pot 2....3m to get to +8 on route to Pot 3......RNG my friend.....RNG. Easy to +6.....lucky to +10.