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Dnd
Dec 12, 2013, 07:12 AM
http://pso2.jp/players/news/?id=2710

tl:dr:
Sega dun goofed and the st.umbra stick camo isnt dropping, so the servers are going down at 5am JST friday - 10am JST friday (8pm GMT - 1am GMT, EST times above)

Compensation:

Everyone gets a tribooster +100%
People who logged in between Wednesdays servers going up and the downtime this evening get a 250% rare drop booster
People who played (not specificity cleared?) the EQ before the downtime this evening get another 250% rare drop booster
+200% exp/rare drop AQ boost event gets extended for 14 hours (ends Saturday @ 14:00 JST)


Cant really complain, sega seem to be way overcompensating for 5 hours downtime in the morning for their intended playerbase, but another 9 hours of AQ boost is sexy

Edit: Boosters to be awarded at a later date*

Horo The Wise Wolf
Dec 12, 2013, 07:23 AM
They seriously need 5 hours to fix this? Wow, what a bunch of incompetent idiots.

Why don't you fix it in under 5 hours then?

You can't, so quit complaining

Yes it is unfortunate that is has to happen, but shit happens.

Ce'Nedra
Dec 12, 2013, 07:29 AM
So the AQ boost ends Saturday morning 6 am for us then eh? Guess my plan for Mikina's boost to lv50 HU has to wait a day ^^;

o0Kais0o
Dec 12, 2013, 07:33 AM
It does seem a little excessive for a wep camo, but meh.

Skywolf
Dec 12, 2013, 07:39 AM
i don't mind the maintenance, free boosters will be nice... possible 550% rare boost in an AQ lol

~Aya~
Dec 12, 2013, 07:47 AM
Compensation is very nice, its not the end of the world, either. Sega taking 5 hours to fix one item though is my only concern.. They must have like one guy that is doing some kinda sega internship working on it. Yeah, that's it! Gotta go slow!

There are probably other issues that they do not want to bring to light because incompetence.

Dnd
Dec 12, 2013, 07:52 AM
Still, that doesn't excuse the fact that it takes them 5 whole hours to fix one (camo) drop that's most likely going to be worthless/hardly used.


Eh, I'd like to think that they will take this time to make server improvements/optimisations/other general maintenance tasks on the servers.

The servers are probably going to be up sooner then expected anyway, like they mostly are for routine downtimes now-days

BIG OLAF
Dec 12, 2013, 07:57 AM
Why don't you fix it in under 5 hours then?

You can't, so quit complaining

Yes it is unfortunate that is has to happen, but shit happens.

Just because someone doesn't have the power and/or knowledge to change something doesn't mean they aren't 'allowed' to complain. That's just silly to say.

Though, five hours does seem like a bit much, but it's probably just a precautionary time stamp, so they can cover their asses if something else goes wrong after the 10 minutes it will probably actually take them to fix it (which, knowing SEGA, may very well happen).

o0Kais0o
Dec 12, 2013, 07:58 AM
In all, this works to my favour as I might be able to get a bit more from the boost, so yay for that lol.

BIG OLAF
Dec 12, 2013, 08:01 AM
Yeah, I'm certainly not complaining. I'll take my Tribooster and two 250% rare boosters for five hours of maintenance in which I'll just go play Skyrim or something anyway. Win/win for me.

Lostbob117
Dec 12, 2013, 08:06 AM
They seriously need 5 hours to fix this? Wow, what a bunch of incompetent idiots.

What's up with the insult?

Sp-24
Dec 12, 2013, 08:11 AM
What's up with the insult?
How is it an insult in Sega's case?

Lostbob117
Dec 12, 2013, 08:21 AM
How is it an insult in Sega's case?


incompetent idiots.

How is this never an insult?

Horo The Wise Wolf
Dec 12, 2013, 08:23 AM
Apparently it is justified to call a company a bunch of incompetent idiots for having a small issue and fixing it.

Emp
Dec 12, 2013, 08:36 AM
I was wondering why I didnt see any of those camos on shops. FREE BOOSTERS! 8D

Zephryl
Dec 12, 2013, 08:38 AM
I don't think anyone should really be commenting on SEGA's competence without knowing the cause of the error. Maybe it's a major problem that's only had one symptom so far, but would've caused massive problems later on, and 5 hours is actually an incredibly fast time for them to fix it in.

Fact is, we don't know what happened, we only know they estimate 5 hours downtime (And it's considered good form to over-estimate, rather than under-estimate) and they're giving out a not-insignificant amount of compensation, when lots of companies wouldn't under the same circumstances.

gigawuts
Dec 12, 2013, 08:45 AM
Sometimes I wonder if they do things like this on purpose so they can seem overly generous when fixing the problem. All those white day EQs, now an extension on the AQ buffs, etc.

jooozek
Dec 12, 2013, 08:53 AM
did people seriously forget about how they wiped stuff off people HDDs? thats a massive shitstain

Horo The Wise Wolf
Dec 12, 2013, 08:56 AM
did people seriously forget about how they wiped stuff off people HDDs? thats a massive shitstain

The bush is dead.

Just saying.

KatsujinkenKik
Dec 12, 2013, 09:28 AM
Did anyone else notice Hans having a female stance now?

Punisher106
Dec 12, 2013, 09:34 AM
And this is Sega giving the middle finger to the US players who plan on taking advantage of the AQ boosts. GG. Fuckin' GG.

isCasted
Dec 12, 2013, 09:58 AM
What about 1-day premium tickets?

Ce'Nedra
Dec 12, 2013, 10:12 AM
And this is Sega giving the middle finger to the US players who plan on taking advantage of the AQ boosts. GG. Fuckin' GG.

We non-jp players are still not supposed to be there at all so stop you're whining.

Dnd
Dec 12, 2013, 10:21 AM
And this is Sega giving the middle finger to the US players who plan on taking advantage of the AQ boosts. GG. Fuckin' GG.

Because extending it from 10am EST friday so it ends midnight EST friday is really giving the middle finger for a small downtime.. am i right?

(Unless, of course, you really cant play during that 14 hour window, but hey, its an online game, unexpected stuff happens sometimes *shrugs*)

martinmeegan
Dec 12, 2013, 10:24 AM
Wow, so many whiners. I mean it's normally bad here but I think it's getting close to an all time low.:sheep:

~Aya~
Dec 12, 2013, 11:10 AM
We non-jp players are still not supposed to be there at all so stop you're whining.


This is something that gets brought up far more often then it should. all they're doing is thinking of and provding support for customers that currently live in Japan (Not in a bad way as it is Japanese game). This no longer means that outsiders should not be on Japanese servers as it's obvious they want foreigners around and are pleasantly surprised by its popularity outside of Japan. Otherwise you'd not be playing PSO2 with the exception of the few of us who have connections to Japan and can otherwise get VPN etc. (I know what the ToS says, Eff the ToS just as Sakai did, thank you).


Sega has made a lot of mistakes and bad choices over time and people continue to look on the brighter side of things which is nice.... still can't deny the facts though.

Mysterious-G
Dec 12, 2013, 11:18 AM
You are right, Aya. Next time, I will call those pricks personally as one of their valued Europeans customers, and tell them to schedule their maintenance during the playtime of the majority of their customers from now on. It's about time the huge number of US American citizens that do not work during the afternoon are finally able to play this game they even downloaded a language patch for.

Like - Jesus Christ - those guys really have no idea what they are doing, do they? Give me a break, SEGA.

NoiseHERO
Dec 12, 2013, 11:22 AM
isn't 5 hours just the default time just to get dudes to come in and have lunch and get the payroll sorted and run the server filecheck and then actually fixing the problem takes like 20 minutes.

~Aya~
Dec 12, 2013, 11:24 AM
isn't 5 hours just the default time just to get dudes to come in and have lunch and get the payroll sorted and run the server filecheck and then actually fixing the problem takes like 20 minutes.

I'm pretty sure you nailed it~ CONGRATULATIONS!!

solid_snark
Dec 12, 2013, 11:33 AM
I wonder if the repairs are just for the weapon camo. Calling staff in at 5 am to fix things isn't standard procedure. The compensation seems a little high for the amount of downtime (not a complaint, mind you). Also, extending the AQ event 14 hours to cover 5 hours of downtime seems a bit generous. Sega really wants people to take part in the AQ boost event. Maybe it's a load test for the PSE changes?

Regardless, boosters for downtime that takes place entirely while I'm at work are always welcome.

supersonix9
Dec 12, 2013, 11:34 AM
do you guys bite your candy canes or just suck on them?

RenVortex
Dec 12, 2013, 11:54 AM
We non-jp players are still not supposed to be there at all so stop you're whining.

Must...resist...grammar nazi impulses.....

But you do have a point. We are not supposed to even be in the servers and game in the first place. So quit your whining and take your free boosts.

Also, to the people who think that five hours of maintenance for one item is bad, I assure you it is nothing compared to the stuff the folks over at Nexon pull. Longest maintenance I have heard from them went on for at least four days. 8-)

Maninbluejumpsuit
Dec 12, 2013, 12:52 PM
Was there mention of compensation for those who have a paid rental service active (not that I'm currently one of those people)

moeri
Dec 12, 2013, 01:13 PM
Ehh the weapon camo is probably supposed to be a guaranteed drop, but SEGA's code bugs out when they tried to make that happen.

Personally I don't see why they couldn't just hotswap a fix like this.

Shinamori
Dec 12, 2013, 01:17 PM
I wonder how many of you actually can code. It's probably more than just fixing 1 drop.

Enforcer MKV
Dec 12, 2013, 01:25 PM
Find the error, correcting, testing, allowing time to go back in and fix any errors that may or may not occur during that time.

You always give a longer period of time than is needed in these cases because there's just so many things that may potentially go wrong in any case like this [not just with Sega], this seems fine to me.

I'm sure there's going to be a bunch of scathing rebuttals, but eh.

moeri
Dec 12, 2013, 01:26 PM
I wonder how many of you actually can code. It's probably more than just fixing 1 drop.

I can, and maybe your right. I was joking about their code bugging out for guaranteed drops...

Though it looks like it is just one drop being effected, and seems like a very small localized problem.


Find the error, correcting, testing, allowing time to go back in and fix any errors that may or may not occur during that time.

You always give a longer period of time than is needed in these cases because there's just so many things that may potentially go wrong in any case like this [not just with Sega], this seems fine to me.

I'm sure there's going to be a bunch of scathing rebuttals, but eh.

Yeah, this is true...

But since there is no actual "damage" being done the the players, why take the servers down? Just leave them up, do whatever needs to be done, then just hotswap the fix in.

The only real reason maintenance should even exists is to deal with actual problems. Such as on the scale of the hard drive bug.

But ehh I am just ranting at this point. I just think everything should strive for Continuous delivery.

Actually I used to agree with you, until I actually started coding, and now I can't even imagine having services going down anymore.

Ehh, actually its probably a managerial problem. SEGA is fairly old anyway. They also have a dedicated "QA team", which probably means they have a bijillion manual tests to go through... meh forget it. They are probably old school enough that I should be expecting this... I mean there are so many warning signs.

Enforcer MKV
Dec 12, 2013, 01:52 PM
Yeah, this is true...

But since there is no actual "damage" being done the the players, why take the servers down? Just leave them up, do whatever needs to be done, then just hotswap the fix in.

The only real reason maintenance should even exists is to deal with actual problems. Such as on the scale of the hard drive bug.

But ehh I am just ranting at this point. I just think everything should strive for Continuous delivery.

Actually I used to agree with you, until I actually started coding, and now I can't even imagine having services going down anymore.

That ties into 'fixing any problems that may or may not arise'

Can you imagine if they tried a hot fix, only to wipe more data like they've already done once? I'm happy with them taking the servers down, and testing under a controlled environment. Better to err on the side of caution, especially knowing what's happened in the past.

moeri
Dec 12, 2013, 01:57 PM
That ties into 'fixing any problems that may or may not arise'

Can you imagine if they tried a hot fix, only to wipe more data like they've already done once? I'm happy with them taking the servers down, and testing under a controlled environment. Better to err on the side of caution, especially knowing what's happened in the past.

Why can't they test on a controlled environment without the servers being down? Its not like this is a hardware issue. Fix the issue on a seperate machine, then once you are sure it works pull it into the production environment.

I didn't mean hotswapping without testing, that would be insanity, sorry if that was how my previous post was interpreted. Sorry, I am too used to testing being implied.

gigawuts
Dec 12, 2013, 02:00 PM
Why can't they test on a controlled environment without the servers being down? Its not like this is a hardware issue. Fix the issue on a seperate machine, then once you are sure it works pull it into the production environment.

I didn't mean hotswapping without testing, that would be insanity, sorry if that was how my previous post was interpreted. Sorry, I am too used to testing being implied.

Shhhhhhhh

Shh

Shhhh

Shush.

You're supposed to be blindly and valiantly defending Sega. You're not even in your white armor, are you?

moeri
Dec 12, 2013, 02:05 PM
Shhhhhhhh

Shh

Shhhh

Shush.

You're supposed to be blindly and valiantly defending Sega. You're not even in your white armor, are you?

Oh yeah, I knew something was wrong. I should go put that on right away.

Toooo funny. That was hilarious.

Enforcer MKV
Dec 12, 2013, 02:12 PM
Why can't they test on a controlled environment without the servers being down? Its not like this is a hardware issue. Fix the issue on a seperate machine, then once you are sure it works pull it into the production environment.

I didn't mean hotswapping without testing, that would be insanity, sorry if that was how my previous post was interpreted. Sorry, I am too used to testing being implied.

*shrugs* I don't know. I'm well aware of testing on a separate system, and the like, but Sega is choosing for whatever reason not to go down that path. They could be using the time to look into other issues, or any manner of things. Again; I don't know, I'm not there to see what's going through their heads (Though I would like to, the rationale would be interesting to hear straight from the horse's mouth either way)

At the end of the day - The maintenance is going through either way, and we can only speculate. The rhythm and reason for them taking the servers down are unknown to all but those involved, I suppose.

EDIT:


Shhhhhhhh

Shh

Shhhh

Shush.

You're supposed to be blindly and valiantly defending Sega. You're not even in your white armor, are you?

Woah, hey, hold on a cotton-pickin' minute here.

Enforcer is grey, thank you very much. Wrong game.

Perhaps you were thinking of this one?

[SPOILER-BOX]http://img801.imageshack.us/img801/6182/kba9.jpgWhat? It's mostly white? Okay, so it's more silvery than anything, but you get the idea![/SPOILER-BOX]

moeri
Dec 12, 2013, 02:32 PM
*shrugs* I don't know. I'm well aware of testing on a separate system, and the like, but Sega is choosing for whatever reason not to go down that path. They could be using the time to look into other issues, or any manner of things. Again; I don't know, I'm not there to see what's going through their heads (Though I would like to, the rationale would be interesting to hear straight from the horse's mouth either way)

At the end of the day - The maintenance is going through either way, and we can only speculate. The rhythm and reason for them taking the servers down are unknown to all but those involved, I suppose.

Yeah this is true.

Personally, I would LOVE to hear their rationale, because I just cannot imagine it making any sense. There "might" be a reason for this to be happening, and if there was a legitimate reason, I would find it hilarious... though I doubt it exists.

From what I have seen it looks like they suffer from not keeping up to date with current times, and are using outdated practices. This worries me because they promised "10 years" of support of pso2. While it is definitely possible to support a game for 10 years, I don't think they are on the path to doing that right now. It looks like to me they are creating a lot of technical debt for themselves, and will eventually be crushed under it.

Personally I just get worked up about this, because its my own field. Its what I love, and personally I think I should get worked up about it ;D I personally find this conversation somewhat fun actually

UnLucky
Dec 12, 2013, 02:41 PM
Woah, a separate testing environment? Now you're just getting way too advanced here.

I bet it takes them three hours just to back up and power cycle the servers.

Lostbob117
Dec 12, 2013, 03:20 PM
Don't they have a test server that no one can access? Like how those group that I forget their name play the new content before it's released?

Dnd
Dec 12, 2013, 03:24 PM
Don't they have a test server that no one can access? Like how those group that I forget their name play the new content before it's released?

A bug on the test server may go un-noticed when the code is implemented on a live server after-all, it happens all the time

granted an entire item just not dropping is quite a hard bug to miss on face value, but without knowing anything to do with the code in pso2, i wont bother to guess

TaigaUC
Dec 12, 2013, 03:31 PM
The test server is probably too ahead of ours in content, and they don't want to bother setting up another one.
Or the code is a huge mess and it's easier to modify the live server code than whatever they have on test.
Whatever reason it is, it's still stupid.

Maybe they already have a fix and they just have to patch all the servers, but they back up all the databases before doing so in case there's a corruption?

Anyway, these special maintenances always seem to revolve around broken drops.
Gives me the impression they don't test the drops at all.

moeri
Dec 12, 2013, 03:31 PM
Don't they have a test server that no one can access? Like how those group that I forget their name play the new content before it's released?

They probably have a test server, and you can probably run a pso2 server on a normal machine.

The problem is probably that they just haven't even considered the possibility of continuous delivery, and are used to working at a slow pace.

Actually, I wouldn't doubt it if they were going to go to the actual server and try to fix/test the code in their production environment. That, gives me nightmares.

gigawuts
Dec 12, 2013, 03:33 PM
A bug on the test server may go un-noticed when the code is implemented on a live server after-all, it happens all the time

granted an entire item just not dropping is quite a hard bug to miss on face value, but without knowing anything to do with the code in pso2, i wont bother to guess

My guess is they have a setting they can toggle to force items to drop to make sure everything's cool because hahahahaha like they would play this game to test it the way they release it.

That setting probably did make the item drop, but it forced it while it otherwise would not have.

moeri
Dec 12, 2013, 03:41 PM
My guess is they have a setting they can toggle to force items to drop to make sure everything's cool because hahahahaha like they would play this game to test it the way they release it.

That setting probably did make the item drop, but it forced it while it otherwise would not have.

That would usually be done by mocking the random number generator, so that you get a known pattern and can predict when things will drop. The random number generator is probably not part of Sega's code, so there would be no reason for Sega to test the actual random number generator.

Sega's code itself would still be tested, but then drops can be predictable, allowing for valid tests to be performed.

A toggle option would effectively mean they were not testing their code... and if you are right they have basically been saying: "I am going to fake testing"

Macras
Dec 12, 2013, 03:47 PM
well, for all we know, the forcing it to drop may be causing issues in other systems of the backend and those are making it not drop or some other abstract issue that theoretically shouldn't be happening but is.

i have done some coding before and sometimes, logic doesn't always like to apply. and knowing sega's track record for coding, this might be the case.

TaigaUC
Dec 12, 2013, 03:50 PM
They could make a program to generate a large number of drop scenarios, and get a list of how many of the item dropped.
But it doesn't seem like they do that.
It seems more like they just type in a low value and leave it to us to find out.

Remember when they had to increase the drop rate for the Border Break sword camo?
I wonder how many drop rates they stealth modify without telling us.

Cyron Tanryoku
Dec 12, 2013, 03:53 PM
5 hours just gives them the time to fix it again if they fuck up while fixing it.

EvilMag
Dec 12, 2013, 03:56 PM
They could make a program to generate a large number of drop scenarios, and get a list of how many of the item dropped.
But it doesn't seem like they do that.
It seems more like they just type in a low value and leave it to us to find out.

Remember when they had to increase the drop rate for the Border Break sword camo?
I wonder how many drop rates they stealth modify without telling us.

Falz 10*s/11*s got nerfed later on supposely because of the exploit where you can fight him multiple times.

TaigaUC
Dec 12, 2013, 04:07 PM
Falz 10*s/11*s got nerfed later on supposely because of the exploit where you can fight him multiple times.

That would be really stupid and just ruin it for everyone else.
They weren't tradable back then, either. 11 stars still aren't, obviously.

Coatl
Dec 12, 2013, 04:11 PM
Hm. Just because someone knows how to code and is capable of fixing the servers in 10mins does not mean they can. If someone in Sega HQ tried to solve the problem when they had no authorization to do so, it could very well cost someone their job.

A good portion of the downtime is probably just spent waiting for someone with more authority to step in really.

~Aya~
Dec 12, 2013, 04:19 PM
I'm waiting for them to leave a bug test room open where its all bosses or rare monsters with 5000% drop rates throughout entire map.

[SPOILER-BOX]then rollbacm servers[/SPOILER-BOX]

Emp
Dec 12, 2013, 04:19 PM
5 hours just gives them the time to fix it again if they fuck up while fixing it.

They keep messing up their own game for all I care. More compensation is always nice.

The Walrus
Dec 12, 2013, 04:22 PM
They should just boost drop rates by 10000% percent for 15 minutes

~Aya~
Dec 12, 2013, 04:23 PM
They should just boost drop rates by 10000% percent for 15 minutes

Red weapons will be included in this drop rate event. Good luck.

moeri
Dec 12, 2013, 04:25 PM
Hm. Just because someone knows how to code and is capable of fixing the servers in 10mins does not mean they can. If someone in Sega HQ tried to solve the problem when they had no authorization to do so, it could very well cost someone their job.

A good portion of the downtime is probably just spent waiting for someone with more authority to step in really.

You are probably right...

And that is the saddest part. Politics are a horrible thing.

This is exactly the problem with hierarchical tech/game companies, nothing gets done.

gigawuts
Dec 12, 2013, 04:38 PM
They should just boost drop rates by 10000% percent for 15 minutes

I'll be waiting at quartz to get my 2 affix razrails.

Shinureal
Dec 12, 2013, 05:51 PM
Just when I installed the game into that shitty laptop I just got to test if it can run it :( and tomorrow I have to wake up at 6 in the morning to travel and I'll be busy for 3 days....great, just wanted some pso-ing before getting involved with he real world.

GreenArcher
Dec 12, 2013, 06:33 PM
I'm waiting for them to leave a bug test room open where its all bosses or rare monsters with 5000% drop rates throughout entire map.

[SPOILER-BOX]then rollbacm servers[/SPOILER-BOX]

Haha....maybe on the english version if there ever is one. Oh PSU memories...

Enforcer MKV
Dec 12, 2013, 10:16 PM
Hm. Just because someone knows how to code and is capable of fixing the servers in 10mins does not mean they can. If someone in Sega HQ tried to solve the problem when they had no authorization to do so, it could very well cost someone their job.

A good portion of the downtime is probably just spent waiting for someone with more authority to step in really.

Yes, that was another point I thought of while I was at work, actually. xD

"So...uh...yeah, we have a problem?"

"What?"

"An item that should be dropping, isn't. I'll just go fix that right now"

"NO, STOP, YOU FOOLISH FOOL! WE MUST GET PROPER AUTHORIZATION!"

-4 hours 59 minutes later- "Alright, go ahead and fix it"

*issue fixed in under a minute and servers go up on time*

:lol:

~Aya~
Dec 12, 2013, 10:33 PM
Yes, that was another point I thought of while I was at work, actually. xD

"So...uh...yeah, we have a problem?"

"What?"

"An item that should be dropping, isn't. I'll just go fix that right now"

"NO, STOP, YOU FOOLISH FOOL! WE MUST GET PROPER AUTHORIZATION!"

-4 hours 59 minutes later- "Alright, go ahead and fix it"

*issue fixed in under a minute and servers go up on time*

:lol:


Sources indicate that this is the closest to the truth. Also further testing~ HAVE NICE DAY

Enforcer MKV
Dec 12, 2013, 10:43 PM
Sources indicate that this is the closest to the truth. Also further testing~ HAVE NICE DAY

Doesn't matter much at this point, seeing as the servers are up. *shrugs*

~Aya~
Dec 12, 2013, 11:01 PM
Doesn't matter much at this point, seeing as the servers are up. *shrugs*

i'ma call you shrug jr or lil'shrugs