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Shadowth117
Dec 14, 2013, 03:33 AM
Clearly, there's going to be some crazy shit happening. You can customize techniques, and completely change weapons... I mean the guy made a normal 1* sword ridiculously powerful and wieldable by fighter.

I'm completely blown away by all of that. Thoughts?

TaigaUC
Dec 14, 2013, 03:35 AM
It'll add more gameplay depth and make old crap useful.
But it'll probably take a lot of time and money to get what we want.

I bet they'll add some kind of AC scratch or premium crafting benefits.
AC scratch craft recipes, or something.
But I guess you can always just ask people to do it for you.
I wonder if they have a system setup to pay other players.

Shadowth117
Dec 14, 2013, 03:37 AM
The most obvious premium thing I saw was the extra slots for doing it so far. That item he used as an additive or whatever implies to me there might be boosters like the affix/grinding boosters, but I have to wonder if they'd actually be premium only or not.

xillia000
Dec 14, 2013, 03:39 AM
Being premium allows you get 3 extra customization slot. And you can buy more slots with AC. Everytime you customize something there's a cooldown period which you can diminish it with items.

TaigaUC
Dec 14, 2013, 03:40 AM
Ah. I heard something about slots but I wasn't paying attention.

Shadowth117
Dec 14, 2013, 03:43 AM
I'm really interested in what exactly can be changed with techs. I saw what looked to be AOE namegid which just on paper sounds crazy.

TaigaUC
Dec 14, 2013, 03:46 AM
Discs are going to vanish from shops.
Na Megid is already 50k. I bought a rank 9 for 10k this morning.

Hey... this could potentially allow ice techs to not be shit.

D-Inferno
Dec 14, 2013, 03:49 AM
Good bye.
> Fi/Hu and Br/Hu

Rakurai
Dec 14, 2013, 03:54 AM
Discs are going to vanish from shops.
Na Megid is already 50k. I bought a rank 9 for 10k this morning.

Hey... this could potentially allow ice techs to not be shit.

Did they mention specifically needing the discs of the tech you're planning to upgrading?

It looked as though you just got a generalized crafting material from breaking down discs.

moeri
Dec 14, 2013, 03:54 AM
I'm really interested in what exactly can be changed with techs. I saw what looked to be AOE namegid which just on paper sounds crazy.

It looks like there are negative effects applied as well, so you can probably increase its TINY aoe to something, but it will probably cost a lot.

oratank
Dec 14, 2013, 03:55 AM
Good bye.
> Fi/Hu and Br/Hu

why :\

Dnd
Dec 14, 2013, 03:56 AM
Good bye.
> Fi/Hu and Br/Hu

No not really, no item customisation system will make up for the major flaw with hybrids.

Dropping 33-50% of total damage just to cast techs is tied to the skill-trees for a hunter/fighter, for an example. I very much doubt this will make much difference in terms of the current power balance, it will just allow for alot more flexibility which is a nice thing to see. Going Hu/Gu with powerful mechs would be cool to have a melee/range hybrid that isn't braver or gunslash dependant

D-Inferno
Dec 14, 2013, 03:58 AM
I mean as in Hu/Fi and Hu/Br will be used instead, thanks to higher HP.

TaigaUC
Dec 14, 2013, 04:00 AM
Did they mention specifically needing the discs of the tech you're planning to upgrading?

It looked as though you just got a generalized crafting material from breaking down discs.

No idea. I'm grabbing the stream now, going to rewatch after I get some sleep.
Ricardo will probably have all the details translated before I wake up.

Valimer
Dec 14, 2013, 04:01 AM
This all sounds great, but I wish we knew what exactly the process was for customizing and what it produces.

Shadowth117
Dec 14, 2013, 04:03 AM
It looks like there are negative effects applied as well, so you can probably increase its TINY aoe to something, but it will probably cost a lot.

From the video, the downside looked to be a loss of about 400 of the 6400ish tech power it had in order to get an extra 2 meters of range if I was reading that right. I dunno, seems pretty amazing.

Rakurai
Dec 14, 2013, 04:06 AM
Did they mention whether it's limited to certain item rarities or not?

I get the impression there's a lot of cheap 10 star weapons I'm going to want to buy before everyone catches on.

Aine
Dec 14, 2013, 04:07 AM
you can't craft 11-star weapons

as if they weren't already being overshadowed by 10-stars

moeri
Dec 14, 2013, 04:07 AM
From the video, the downside looked to be a loss of about 400 of the 6400ish tech power it had in order to get an extra 2 meters of range if I was reading that right. Idk, seems pretty amazing.

I didn't see it, I came into the stream after most of the customization stuff, only saw them being used for a little bit.

Will have to look at it more tomorrow after I wake up.

SociableTyrannosaur
Dec 14, 2013, 04:12 AM
weapons have a certain number of slots for customizing though, right? That means a slot for multiclassing with a double saber could have been used for something else that a fighter main could make use of. Longer range or more power or HP absorption or whatever else they put out. so hybridizing still wont be optimal.

D-Inferno
Dec 14, 2013, 05:46 AM
weapons have a certain number of slots for customizing though, right? That means a slot for multiclassing with a double saber could have been used for something else that a fighter main could make use of. Longer range or more power or HP absorption or whatever else they put out. so hybridizing still wont be optimal.

If so, then FI/HU and BR/HU probably aren't out yet. But finally being able to HU-only weapons together with BR and FI only weapons is pretty neat.

gigawuts
Dec 14, 2013, 06:07 AM
I haven't watched the stream (won't be able to for a while - those voices anyway, ugh) but based on what I've read...

It sounds like we take the system we already have and add a whole new form of customizations onto it - what affixes should have been all along. These will be stats of actual consequence. Instead of power III, an extend code will make a weak weapon actually strong. Allclass stats, etc. (edit: hopefully allclass, and not multiclass, or maybe classes will be grouped by category [close quarters for hu/fi/br/te/gu for instance])

It also sounds like this success being guaranteed thing is what I've been saying since day 1: Allow us to guarantee our minimum requirements, then add more bonuses on top of that. The game will shift to this being standard procedure, and instead of trying for soul/stat3/statboost/ability3 with 100/100/100/80, players will try for I don't know let's say allclass/extend/randombonus at 100/100/80 to get a nice offensive boost. Just like Ability 3 some players will take what they get; others will try again. The key difference is how costly being able to attempt it in the first place will be, and that price not being based on your luck of the day.

That raises the real question: What happens if you fail? Do you need to reset the whole pot to expand slots like affixes? Please say no. Can you add on a slot without even touching your other things? Please say yes. Do the bonuses from other existing customizations still apply even in a second session? Please say yes. These are the questions that will make or break this system. Things like allclass and extending codes will shift equilibrium so they become standard, but not having to deal with going from 3->4 slots and dumping your handful of <100% transfer rate affixes purely based on dice rolls to do it will really make it.

TaigaUC
Dec 14, 2013, 08:13 AM
I haven't watched the stream (won't be able to for a while - those voices anyway, ugh)

Momoi was away this time, so the voices won't bother you as much.

Emp
Dec 14, 2013, 08:30 AM
So as far as know, we cant craft 10* or higher to make them "stronger"? If not, then I really dont care about the crafting system.

BIG OLAF
Dec 14, 2013, 08:32 AM
Thoughts?

About fucking time.

That's all.

Kikikiki
Dec 14, 2013, 08:35 AM
I think I'll have to waste around the price of a Susanoguren to make a Kalicizma on the same equality of a Lambda Kalicizma.

jooozek
Dec 14, 2013, 08:37 AM
lol @ it being released in summer
talk about a small slip from the former december date :lol:

Ezodagrom
Dec 14, 2013, 10:02 AM
lol @ it being released in summer
talk about a small slip from the former december date :lol:
Actually in the summer it's just an update to the crafting system, not the release.
The crafting system is being added in January.

Shinamori
Dec 14, 2013, 10:05 AM
Actually in the summer it's just an update to the crafting system, not the release.
The crafting system is being added in January.

We was suppose to get it this month, but they had bugs and got delayed to next month. It really was doing to debut in summer, then they probably wouldn't have shown it until like March or May.

RadiantLegend
Dec 14, 2013, 10:15 AM
Can 10*s be crafted?

Emp
Dec 14, 2013, 10:49 AM
I haven't watched the stream (won't be able to for a while - those voices anyway, ugh) but based on what I've read...

It sounds like we take the system we already have and add a whole new form of customizations onto it - what affixes should have been all along. These will be stats of actual consequence. Instead of power III, an extend code will make a weak weapon actually strong. Allclass stats, etc. (edit: hopefully allclass, and not multiclass, or maybe classes will be grouped by category [close quarters for hu/fi/br/te/gu for instance])

It also sounds like this success being guaranteed thing is what I've been saying since day 1: Allow us to guarantee our minimum requirements, then add more bonuses on top of that. The game will shift to this being standard procedure, and instead of trying for soul/stat3/statboost/ability3 with 100/100/100/80, players will try for I don't know let's say allclass/extend/randombonus at 100/100/80 to get a nice offensive boost. Just like Ability 3 some players will take what they get; others will try again. The key difference is how costly being able to attempt it in the first place will be, and that price not being based on your luck of the day.

That raises the real question: What happens if you fail? Do you need to reset the whole pot to expand slots like affixes? Please say no. Can you add on a slot without even touching your other things? Please say yes. Do the bonuses from other existing customizations still apply even in a second session? Please say yes. These are the questions that will make or break this system. Things like allclass and extending codes will shift equilibrium so they become standard, but not having to deal with going from 3->4 slots and dumping your handful of <100% transfer rate affixes purely based on dice rolls to do it will really make it.

I thought I read that you could NOT fail?

TaigaUC
Dec 14, 2013, 10:55 AM
That's what I thought.

We're probably going to see a lot of people with starter katanas, for the looks.

Looking over the stream now.


I'm really interested in what exactly can be changed with techs. I saw what looked to be AOE namegid which just on paper sounds crazy.

There's a brief shot of the description before they use it.
Looks like +2.00m AOE range and -450% damage.


Did they mention specifically needing the discs of the tech you're planning to upgrading?

It looked as though you just got a generalized crafting material from breaking down discs.

I think you're right.

Kondibon
Dec 14, 2013, 11:15 AM
[breathing intensifies]
http://i.imgur.com/Dc3kx42.gif

Ehem... as excited as I am for this, I think the RNG is still gonna rear it's ugly head when you start needing lots of mats you can only get from getting great successes desynthesizing 10* weapons or of a specific type, or level 11+ rare disks. = w=

Or even worse, watch the actual effects we get be completely random so we have to keep re-rolling on top of that like the goddamn reforges in Mabinogi. :I

Lostbob117
Dec 14, 2013, 11:26 AM
What's this? The game being made fun?

Kondibon
Dec 14, 2013, 11:32 AM
What's this? The game being made fun?Well I'm sure it's going to be grindy at the very least. And there's probably an upper limit to extending weapons.

At least this gives people stuff to look for and work towards besides obscenely rare drops, expensive affixing, and lolgrinding. Hopefully it'll be more consistent.

UnLucky
Dec 14, 2013, 11:40 AM
Yeah, it looks like you need to dismantle tons of discs in hopes of good materials, then you get to repeatedly try for a good effect at the same time as an acceptable penalty, with a cooldown between attempts.


[SPOILER-BOX]http://bumped.org/psublog/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/Foie-Custom.png[/SPOILER-BOX]
The Technic Customization system creates both positive and negative effects.
A positive effect, for example, may get you 20 ~ 40% more power with some increased speed.
However, as a detriment, it can increase the PP consumption values by +3 ~ +10.

The example they show has a bad roll on the bonus, and a bad roll on the penalty.

+24 power on the original 342 is an overall increase of 7%
+7 PP cost on the original 20 is a 35% increase

Even with the proposed optimum dice rolls, that's an 11.7% damage increase for 15% PP cost.

Remember, this costs money and time to achieve.

xillia000
Dec 14, 2013, 11:41 AM
I thought I read that you could NOT fail?

Yeas you cannot fail.

Aine
Dec 14, 2013, 01:08 PM
they just renamed 'fail' success and success 'great success'

Enforcer MKV
Dec 14, 2013, 01:11 PM
they just renamed 'fail' success and success 'great success'

Ah, the buzz of cynicism.

Kondibon
Dec 14, 2013, 01:11 PM
they just renamed 'fail' success and success 'great success'The success/great success thing is only for desynthesizing. You can't fail the actual crafting.

UnLucky
Dec 14, 2013, 01:12 PM
And since there's a cooldown between attempts, you're going to have to live with your "success" for some time.

Like imagine you get the worst possible roll on your most frequently used tech.

Now the thing costs 50% more PP and does 5% more damage.

What do you do, quit the game until you can try again?

Emp
Dec 14, 2013, 01:14 PM
And since there's a cooldown between attempts, you're going to have to live with your "success" for some time.

Like imagine you get the worst possible roll on your most frequently used tech.

Now the thing costs 50% more PP and does 5% more damage.

What do you do, quit the game until you can try again?

Im sure the cooldown will only be a few hours max.

Ezodagrom
Dec 14, 2013, 01:16 PM
And since there's a cooldown between attempts, you're going to have to live with your "success" for some time.

Like imagine you get the worst possible roll on your most frequently used tech.

Now the thing costs 50% more PP and does 5% more damage.

What do you do, quit the game until you can try again?
The extended tech is an item, if you get a bad result you can just not learn it.

Kondibon
Dec 14, 2013, 01:19 PM
I just realized this added another use for junk rares. Not just through extending but also through desynthesizing, since I'm sure rare weapons are gonna need rare mats for upgrades. ._.

holmwood
Dec 14, 2013, 01:38 PM
What about the gimp rares like the nacht and licht series? :D
Eeeeee

Shadowth117
Dec 14, 2013, 02:20 PM
The extended tech is an item, if you get a bad result you can just not learn it.

This^

Now whether you can unlearn things like that would be interesting to know. And whether you can keep them or not after you unlearn them. I'm sure there would totally be times where you'd want one effect on something and then want to change it. And of course, that *should* be possible in a single given run since in the video we saw the dude spontaneously learn the techs which makes it even more interesting.

Zyrusticae
Dec 14, 2013, 02:41 PM
Oh my, this crafting system sounds good. It'll have to do in the absence of a system that lets us turn whatever we want into weapon camos.

I can finally have a 3* katana that I can actually USE without feeling terrible about it! HOORAY!

gigawuts
Dec 14, 2013, 02:41 PM
I'm sure this is a precursor to discs being unlearnable.

And level 11+ discs being tradeable.

But only after players whine enough. Gotta make 'em beg.


Oh my, this crafting system sounds good. It'll have to do in the absence of a system that lets us turn whatever we want into weapon camos.

I can finally have a 3* katana that I can actually USE without feeling terrible about it! HOORAY!

And also this - I'm in love with the Breaker 1-3* sword series, but they're so fucking bad. It's a fucking tank with a blade, the coolest sword in the game, and it's complete shit. I may work on one of those to tote around.

UnLucky
Dec 14, 2013, 03:05 PM
So long as 6* (or 9* or whatever the cutoff is) aren't still twice as powerful as the 1-3* stuff you plan on customizing for a much higher cost than simply buying a stronger base weapon outright.

Skyly HUmar
Dec 14, 2013, 03:16 PM
So long as 6* (or 9* or whatever the cutoff is) aren't still twice as powerful as the 1-3* stuff you plan on customizing for a much higher cost than simply buying a stronger base weapon outright.

Going off of extend code in the psp series that will be the case lol. But then again that was Alfa system and not sega so meh. Hopefully this is good enough to make the game interesting again.

gigawuts
Dec 14, 2013, 03:24 PM
Hopefully this is good enough to make the game interesting again.

All extend codes will really do is remove the need to add and re-add weapons with PA-specific latents.

Then we'll all be pigeonholed into using old weapons for their PA bonuses.

Wheeeeee.

UnLucky
Dec 14, 2013, 03:36 PM
PSO2 features real time action combat utilizing a unique, customizable combo system

gigawuts
Dec 14, 2013, 03:38 PM
PSO2 features real time action combat utilizing a unique, customizable combo system

Are you in advertising? Because you could be with that kind of meaningless buzzword stringing.

UnLucky
Dec 14, 2013, 03:55 PM
I just remember someone saying something like that.

Then after five minutes of playing Hunter I found it much easier to just slot the same PA three times.

A latent for every PA would be the final nail...

Though I wonder if a JA latent or somesuch on a stronger weapon would still be BIS over a "customized" weapon.

Shadowth117
Dec 14, 2013, 04:21 PM
I just remember someone saying something like that.

Then after five minutes of playing Hunter I found it much easier to just slot the same PA three times.

A latent for every PA would be the final nail...

Though I wonder if a JA latent or somesuch on a stronger weapon would still be BIS over a "customized" weapon.

Well it works on 10*s, why not just latent AND customize it lolz

I'm curious what this means for 11*s and 12*s actually. It seems like they would become garbage with all of this. Maybe you can turn them into really uber materials or something?

UnLucky
Dec 14, 2013, 04:29 PM
Oh so it is 10* now.

So 1-9*s are just for dismantle mats then, okay.

Ezodagrom
Dec 14, 2013, 05:56 PM
Oh so it is 10* now.

So 1-9*s are just for dismantle mats then, okay.
When it comes to extending weapons/units:

Makes your low ranking weapons or units more powerful. Works on 1 ~ 10★ items only.

When it comes to desynthesis:

You can acquire these ingredients by breaking down 7★ or higher weapons/units, and LV11+ Disks.
http://bumped.org/psublog/pso2-jp-arks-christmas-party-live-broadcast-recap/

gigawuts
Dec 14, 2013, 05:57 PM
Time to start stacking my bloody sarabande and nafoie 16s.

UnLucky
Dec 14, 2013, 06:02 PM
Is the broadcast over yet so that bumped post can stop changing everything so I can look at it once and have the correct information?

And I so wish PA discs could stack.

gigawuts
Dec 14, 2013, 06:09 PM
This would be why they can't. The game was likely designed with something like this in mind from the beginning.

It just took them this long to implement it.

angrysquid
Dec 14, 2013, 06:24 PM
I guess the 11* owners gotta wait till the update in spring/summer
Kinda bothers me how they have no info about those since XQ weapons are quite possible to obtain nowadays ( I don't really want to sacrafise it for top tier fodder just so I can get another one for the next update )

Ezodagrom
Dec 14, 2013, 06:27 PM
Is the broadcast over yet so that bumped post can stop changing everything so I can look at it once and have the correct information?
The broadcast ended like 15 hours ago or so, it's just when trying to write a summary of something like that, it's easy to miss details sometimes, I guess.

Skyly HUmar
Dec 14, 2013, 08:04 PM
All extend codes will really do is remove the need to add and re-add weapons with PA-specific latents.

Then we'll all be pigeonholed into using old weapons for their PA bonuses.

Wheeeeee.

I mean that being limited to only a few weps per class was one of the biggest letdowns of pso2, even if theyre not top class, decent all class non hu weps would be nice.

TaigaUC
Dec 14, 2013, 08:15 PM
Are you in advertising? Because you could be with that kind of meaningless buzzword stringing.

I remember seeing a Japanese PSO2 video ad with huge bolded words labelling itself "THE BEST ACTION RPG OF ALL TIME" or some such nonsense.
I'd link it if I could remember which video it was. It was probably one of the update videos from a while back.

Also reminds me of how Japanese people were complaining that the "play with 12 people!" campaign is bullshit because you can only party with 4 at a time.

Darki
Dec 14, 2013, 08:18 PM
Wait wait wait.

Does this mean that we can make any weapon class-free? Or just some? Because if that's the case then I'm going to marry whoever decided on this feature, regardless of gender, age or shoe size.

Maninbluejumpsuit
Dec 14, 2013, 08:36 PM
Jesus this may turn the market on its head. Good thing I'm pooling meseta for like the first time ever. Don't know what is worth investing into at this point yet... too much new stuff at once...

Also, way to alienate people who actually did XQs $ega. Not only are SH level drops already at least as good, now they're open to customizing.

Also, I'm anticipating that we're getting atk booster items back with the new years revival scratch.

In short; pool alot of meseta. Player economy is in for a bumpy ride.

UnLucky
Dec 14, 2013, 08:40 PM
Wait wait wait.

Does this mean that we can make any weapon class-free? Or just some? Because if that's the case then I'm going to marry whoever decided on this feature, regardless of gender, age or shoe size.
Looks like it could be any 10* you want.

Though adding that functionality means you can't also make it as strong in some other way, but it's a lot better than the 8* stuff.

In short; pool alot of meseta. Player economy is in for a bumpy ride.
Invest in gold! Can't trust the banks!!

Rakurai
Dec 15, 2013, 02:57 AM
I'm feeling torn about whether or not I should start hording rares, whether to be used for materials or because of them having latents that could make them useful once upgraded,

The prices on some items like Firearms already have made a huge price jump since the announcement, but since the update is still six months away and I have limited storage space...

Darki
Dec 15, 2013, 03:49 AM
Looks like it could be any 10* you want.

Only 10*?

I don't care for 10*s, they're all ugly as fuck and there are almost no style sets, like Alystein or Twinkle. If it only works for 10*s then I'm not that happy.

*Returns the tux back*

Alenoir
Dec 15, 2013, 03:55 AM
The prices on some items like Firearms already have made a huge price jump since the announcement, but since the update is still six months away and I have limited storage space...

Crafting is being implemented in January, IIRC.

Zorafim
Dec 15, 2013, 04:19 AM
Can I finally use partisans and twin daggers on the same class without gimping my damage? I've been wanting to do this since fortefighters came out!

UnLucky
Dec 15, 2013, 05:04 AM
Only 10*?

I don't care for 10*s, they're all ugly as fuck and there are almost no style sets, like Alystein or Twinkle. If it only works for 10*s then I'm not that happy.

*Returns the tux back*

Er, 1-10*

I think you just craft the all-class "Extend core" which can be slotted on anything 10* or less. So yeah, feel free to make novelty 7*s or tradeable 9*s all-class

Rakurai
Dec 15, 2013, 05:20 AM
I hope they let you decrease the range or projectile speed on Zan as a form of customization. Which one I want would depend on whether it deals a hit each time it changes direction, or simply causes damage periodically as long as it's in contact with an enemy's hitbox.


Crafting is being implemented in January, IIRC.

Oh.

I was looking at the crafting system update mentioned as being in early summer on the roadmap.

Guess I'll start saving all of my garbage rares from Falz, then.

Darki
Dec 15, 2013, 06:53 AM
Er, 1-10*

I think you just craft the all-class "Extend core" which can be slotted on anything 10* or less. So yeah, feel free to make novelty 7*s or tradeable 9*s all-class

*Rents back the tux*

You know, with this system class free weapons do make sense. At least now they will be simply weapons that don't require to sacrifice an extend slot to use in any class, but let's see how this works. if it allows to level stats individually it would make for awesome hybrid weapons, since you could pick any weapon you want and simply upgrade its TATK. If this is possible, I'm really going to enjoy this system, I can make my Coat Edge D a powerhouse.

gigawuts
Dec 15, 2013, 09:02 AM
God I love what this is doing to the market. Anyone wanna help me farm club of laconiums? :wacko:

The Walrus
Dec 15, 2013, 09:51 AM
Is everyone selling trash rares for high prices now?

Sakarisei
Dec 15, 2013, 09:57 AM
I really dunno why you're fearing HU/BRs and HU/FIs with Katanas and DS since Susanoo Guren and Amun Hotep are weapons allowed to HUs. You want it? Farm it and then said me if that things are extremely OP for saying it.

I think that 11* weapons are still better than crafted weapons, unless they can raise an attack value of 1200 or even more...

gigawuts
Dec 15, 2013, 09:57 AM
Only the ones that look cool or have good latents.

Tarnadas went from 1k to 200k, club of laconiums went from 10k (albeit with a VERY low supply, something like 20 on the market) to 1.3m (they have the fire tech latent, this should not surprise anyone).

jooozek
Dec 15, 2013, 10:00 AM
I really dunno why you're fearing HU/BRs and HU/FIs with Katanas and DS since Susanoo Guren and Amun Hotep are weapons allowed to HUs. You want it? Farm it and then said me if that things are extremely OP for saying it.

I think that 11* weapons are still better than crafted weapons, unless they can raise an attack value of 1200 or even more...

considering adaman got to 864 T-ATK at +10 on the stream

in any case i feel for the gullible people buying all those shit rares with good latents, no matter what it seems like extending the better 10* will be the way to go anyway

The Walrus
Dec 15, 2013, 10:04 AM
Only the ones that look cool or have good latents.

Tarnadas went from 1k to 200k, club of laconiums went from 10k (albeit with a VERY low supply, something like 20 on the market) to 1.3m (they have the fire tech latent, this should not surprise anyone).

Oh wow. I just might have to log on and see if my trash rare collection is worth anything...

Sakarisei
Dec 15, 2013, 10:16 AM
considering adaman got to 864 T-ATK at +10 on the stream

in any case i feel for the gullible people buying all those shit rares with good latents, no matter what it seems like extending the better 10* will be the way to go anyway

And i've got this equip on my HU/TE, without needing crafting weapons.

[spoiler-box]https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/73518512/pso20131211_211726_013.jpg[/spoiler-box]

That's stronger than that adaman with latent. You'll only get benefit from ice, while that wand has got Inmediate Justice, which helps any element...

I'll say it once again. Firstly get weapons for your subclass, then, say me that that thing is OP, because i can show you one day a HU/FI with Amun Hotep and seeing significantly the difference...

Greetings.

jooozek
Dec 15, 2013, 10:19 AM
you said

" I think that 11* weapons are still better than crafted weapons, unless they can raise an attack value of 1200 or even more..."

to which i was replying
geddit?

if something as shit as adaman could get so high and they said you can extend all but 11/12*, what possibly could happen if you were to extend w/e you are using?

tl;dr 11/12* will be worthless garbage if they really allow for extending all 10* stuff

gigawuts
Dec 15, 2013, 10:21 AM
multipliers son

do you understand them?

jooozek
Dec 15, 2013, 10:23 AM
multipliers son

do you understand them?

what multipliers? 16% for one element? on a wand? :lol:

Sacrificial
Dec 15, 2013, 10:34 AM
I sure hope you can shorten the loading animation on rifle/launcher pa's.

gigawuts
Dec 15, 2013, 10:35 AM
what multipliers? 16% for one element? on a wand? :lol:

Uh yes.

Or are you one of those people that only uses one weapon?

Sakarisei
Dec 15, 2013, 10:35 AM
multipliers son

do you understand them?

Are you really worried for it... when GUs, RAs or even FOs don't need other weapons for getting better multiplier?

When we can see a game which that classes need other weapons, perhaps we'll see it clearly. Until then, i don't see it a problem, unless you're worried on oneshotting and TAing in official championships...

ChocolateTacoFilms
Dec 15, 2013, 10:49 AM
wait u can craft stuff now?

jooozek
Dec 15, 2013, 10:50 AM
Uh yes.

Or are you one of those people that only uses one weapon?

considering that aside of life leech (and the gimmicky iron will/knockback nullifiers and maybe holy rays stun) all of the potentials are pretty much worthless multipliers which to be expected that they will still be worthless even after extending since you can extend everything and the pain you have to go through to unlock potentials to play specialising
yup, i've got only a weapon for each weapon class and that will not change since there is nothing remotely good on shit weapons

gigawuts
Dec 15, 2013, 10:54 AM
While I can agree for most things, fire is all about the deeps. I'd also get a separate weapon just for something like backhand smash or hatou rindou.

I go wind/fire te/fo a lot, so that's right up my alley. Optimum? Maybe not. Fun as fuck? Definitely.

The Walrus
Dec 15, 2013, 11:12 AM
There is a latent for hatou?

gigawuts
Dec 15, 2013, 11:24 AM
Eventually there will be, rest assured.

The_Brimada
Dec 15, 2013, 11:39 AM
Only the ones that look cool or have good latents.

Tarnadas went from 1k to 200k, club of laconiums went from 10k (albeit with a VERY low supply, something like 20 on the market) to 1.3m (they have the fire tech latent, this should not surprise anyone).

I hope I didn't npc my laconium

Darki
Dec 15, 2013, 12:43 PM
Good that I usually play for looks and I already use weapons I consider the coolest.

UnLucky
Dec 15, 2013, 01:15 PM
multipliers son

do you understand them?

It really depends on the crafting system.

If they were smart, it would be an inverse proportion of sorts, with the weaker weapons getting larger stat gains to bring them up to (just shy of) that of the inherently stronger weapons.

This would mean most anything could reach ~1100 Atk, maybe varying by 5-10 at each step instead of 20-30. Then the only differentiator would be latents and aesthetics.

If they fuck it up to the surprise of no one, the already better weapons will pull even further ahead of the trash, resulting in nothing more than raising the bar evenly across the board.

Oh, Windmill with 1333 T-Atk? Well, my Heretic Saw has 1375 so it's still better for Sazan spam :oops:

jooozek
Dec 15, 2013, 02:29 PM
from bumped
"ADD: The Weapon Crafting Recipes seem to have (Beginner, Intermediate, and Advanced) versions.
ADD: For example a recipe could say could say “Beginner Striking Weapon Lv.#” or “Intermediate Striking Weapon Lv.#”
ADD: Tech recipes on the other hand have a [Prefix] [Tech] [Value] nomenclature.
ADD: For example, there’s the Blazing Foie Recipe1, its effects are described in the Technic Customization section
ADD: There’s also Concentrating Gi Foie Recipe1 which reduces the charging times but worsens the status afflicting rate.
ADD: There’s also Flashing Ra Grants, Flashing Gi Grants, Efficient Grants, Concentrating Zan, Concentrating Zonde. It is unknown at this time as to what their effects are."

UnLucky
Dec 15, 2013, 02:39 PM
Don't forget:
"ADD: As evidenced in the video, there are also different kinds of PA Fragments. (S-ATK) (R-ATK) and (T-ATK)"
and
"ADD: There’s also different types of Lilipariums. There’s the “Liliparium (Minimum)” and “Liliparium Full Charge,” surely you can make an educated guess as to how you’ll obtain them. "

But this makes me worried that they'll never balance Light techs so they charge as fast as the others, or ever make Sabarta good. "That's what customization is for!" but then you can only change one aspect, sacrificing something else, so the tech is still worse off.

And since they're limited to these strict recipes, you can't, for example, increase the damage while lowering the SE rate, or lower PP cost at the expense of charge time.

The Walrus
Dec 15, 2013, 02:41 PM
That's why they'll add new recipes over time, and even let you give them money for the best ones.

Sega is so good to us.

jooozek
Dec 15, 2013, 02:44 PM
That's why they'll add new recipes over time, and even let you give them money for the best ones.

Sega is so good to us.

forces are already pay2win so that actually makes sense :lol:

Atmius
Dec 15, 2013, 04:33 PM
I think that 11* weapons are still better than crafted weapons, unless they can raise an attack value of 1200 or even more...

Going to have to partially disagree with this, for now anyway. For 11*'s, the Nasuyoteri, Motav Prophecy, and Flame Visit all have kind of subpar latents. Guld Milla, Twin Kamui, Elsyion and to an extent Fal Claw have pretty damn good latents that make them more viable over the 10* weapons that would otherwise exceed them.

A fairly good element Nasuyoteri in particular gets outclassed by a 50 element Rikalbari (a fairly cheap bow now), and the latent for the Nasu isn't exactly amazing (5/6/7% weak point damage up, vs average stance up on the Rikal). It doesn't offer much incentive to use it over a customised weapon when the system comes out apart from for looks, unless they're given new latents that give them a significant edge, and you have a 50 element one to boot.

A particular shame when in the video Ichitarou asked about 11/12* weapons and Kimura responded that they wont be customisable (at least for now? I forget), since they're already plenty powerful, ignoring that there's already a 10* DS stronger than the XQ DS witout customisation.

Rakurai
Dec 15, 2013, 05:38 PM
from bumped
"ADD: The Weapon Crafting Recipes seem to have (Beginner, Intermediate, and Advanced) versions.
ADD: For example a recipe could say could say “Beginner Striking Weapon Lv.#” or “Intermediate Striking Weapon Lv.#”
ADD: Tech recipes on the other hand have a [Prefix] [Tech] [Value] nomenclature.
ADD: For example, there’s the Blazing Foie Recipe1, its effects are described in the Technic Customization section
ADD: There’s also Concentrating Gi Foie Recipe1 which reduces the charging times but worsens the status afflicting rate.
ADD: There’s also Flashing Ra Grants, Flashing Gi Grants, Efficient Grants, Concentrating Zan, Concentrating Zonde. It is unknown at this time as to what their effects are."

Losing status chance is a really minor penalty, considering that you can't even afflict most bosses with status, and normal enemies don't last long enough for them to matter.

I get the impression those are going to be the most popular recipes for the most part.

gigawuts
Dec 15, 2013, 05:40 PM
Ha ha yeah, god this is going to be ridiculous. I can already see it:
Nafoie: +40% damage, -10% SE rate (OH NO)
Zondeel: -10 PP Cost, -10% SE rate (LOL OMG)
Zan: -50% Charge Time, -10% SE rate (AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH)

The Walrus
Dec 15, 2013, 05:46 PM
If there was stuff like that I'd have to go level fo/te again...

gigawuts
Dec 15, 2013, 05:47 PM
I just want to make sazan stronger. I don't care what it takes. More PP? Fine. Worse SE? Fine! Just as long as it doesn't take longer to charge. Well, not TOO much longer. If we're talking 10% longer for 40% damage you've got a deal.

Manta Oyamada
Dec 15, 2013, 08:09 PM
http://www.g-heaven.net/topics/2013/12/131215b.html

http://www.g-heaven.net/topics/2013/12/131214a.html

UnLucky
Dec 16, 2013, 12:38 AM
I just want to make sazan stronger. I don't care what it takes. More PP? Fine. Worse SE? Fine! Just as long as it doesn't take longer to charge. Well, not TOO much longer. If we're talking 10% longer for 40% damage you've got a deal.
Custom Sazan
Power: 586->606
PP: 18->28

There are no available Craft Lines at this time. Please try again in 23h59m or spend 300AC.

Sanguine2009
Dec 16, 2013, 12:53 AM
shhh dont give sega ideas

Xaelouse
Dec 16, 2013, 01:00 AM
So this is the part when anti gets the ability to revive fallen party members again, right?
I really want to remove moon atomizer from my subpalette.

cheapgunner
Dec 16, 2013, 01:01 AM
Better yet, allow techs to hit an extra hitbox or two on enemies within range like Hatou Rindo.

Sazan - 1 hitbox per enemy to 3 hitboxes. 5+ pp usage.

Let's do this SEGA....

Enforcer MKV
Dec 16, 2013, 01:02 AM
So this is the part when anti gets the ability to revive fallen party members again, right?
I really want to remove moon atomizer from my subpalette.

Oooooh, I like this idea. Yes please!

Rakurai
Dec 16, 2013, 02:49 AM
I hope there's a customization for Megiverse and Zanverse that increases the duration of their effect.

The one that halves the cast time for a minor 5 PP cost increase is nice, but it lasting a few seconds longer would be more beneficial.

gigawuts
Dec 16, 2013, 11:34 AM
Agreed. Maybe do what Extend Assist should have in the first place.

edit: I know it's not crafting, but this seems like the only relevant thread.

For anyone wondering what the new latent here was...
[SPOILER-BOX]http://puu.sh/5ODkh.jpg[/SPOILER-BOX]
It's Attack PP Restorate, as found on the Lacruico and Double Saber Legacy. The other listed one is the same Chain Finish bonus latent the Block Bellow has right now.

The Walrus
Dec 16, 2013, 12:10 PM
I didn't think about it till now but there might be stuff for Shifta and Deband :D

Effect buff or range buff would make me so happy ;_;

Shadowth117
Dec 16, 2013, 12:21 PM
I didn't think about it till now but there might be stuff for Shifta and Deband :D

Effect buff or range buff would make me so happy ;_;

Imagine, we could have a Megiverse that does damage making it actually useful!... oh wait, Sega.

gigawuts
Dec 16, 2013, 12:25 PM
I'm still baffled by the lack of a proper AOE dark tech. Ramegid is anything but AOE. The increased radius to namegid is hilarious though.

UnLucky
Dec 16, 2013, 12:29 PM
I didn't see any Shifta/Deband recipes in the list they had, but it's not like that's exhaustive.

You just have to realize 10 power is 1% base stats, so I don't expect them to get much better from crafting. And if the power drops by 50 to increase the area 20% then it won't even be worth casting...

Link1275
Dec 16, 2013, 01:10 PM
I'm still baffled by the lack of a proper AOE dark tech. Ramegid is anything but AOE. The increased radius to namegid is hilarious though.
Gimegid with a talis and expanded AOE crafting?

Shadowth117
Dec 16, 2013, 02:38 PM
Gimegid with a talis and expanded AOE crafting?

It still doesn't stick to enemies like rafoie and zonde do and its not strong enough that that would be a great expansion.

gigawuts
Dec 16, 2013, 02:40 PM
Gimegid is Sabarta without the locking ability.

Sabarta is bad enough WITH that ability.

xxmadplayerxx
Dec 17, 2013, 11:31 PM
This is cool but why is crafting for 1-10* items only? what about 11* + Items? If i was to make a 1-10* weapon stronger than my 11* it would make no sense to have an 11* + weapon.other than for looks. But i guess we will find out in the upcoming future.

Rakurai
Dec 17, 2013, 11:38 PM
I think the logical move would be to make 11* weapons significantly stronger then 10* weapons to begin with.

If a 1 star weapon can have stats that exceed that of numerous 10* at level 10 extend, I can't even imagine how good a level 10 extend 10* is going to be.

I've started hording my 10 star rares and level 16 6* skill discs in anticipation of this. I'm also considering buying a 500 slot storage to load up with common discs and garbage rares.

Valimer
Dec 17, 2013, 11:41 PM
I really doubt it will scale the same for 10* weapons

xxmadplayerxx
Dec 17, 2013, 11:42 PM
I think the logical move would be to make 11* weapons significantly stronger then 10* weapons to begin with.

If a 1 star weapon can have stats that exceed that of numerous 10* at level 10 extend, I can't even imagine how good an extend level 10 10* is going to be.

Exactly what i'm thinking aswell, well put.

Even now there are some good 10* weapons that have better potential/Stats than 11*weapons, it is kinda confusing to me.

Zorafim
Dec 17, 2013, 11:46 PM
They did this in PSP2. In most cases, an extend item was more valuable than the item you were extending. So, the item's rarity or original strength didn't account for too much of the final weapon's attack power. Extended 12*s were a little bit stronger than normal 12*s (+11 or so), while extended 1*s were about on par with 12*s. There was a bit of a difference between an extended 1* and 12*, but it wasn't enough to really worry about.

All this means is that I'll finally be able to show off how wonderful 3* weapons look on me.

jcart953
Dec 17, 2013, 11:52 PM
I really doubt it will scale the same for 10* weapons

This is the same thought I have although , im still hoarding certain 10*s just in case.

Rakurai
Dec 17, 2013, 11:53 PM
Even now there are some good 10* weapons that have better potential/Stats than 11*weapons, it is kinda confusing to me.

An example of this that springs to mind is Falclaw vs. Neiclaw.

The Neiclaw is just a weaker, all-class version of the Falclaw, right down to having the same latent despite being only a 9* weapon. If you can improve to have almost the same stats, the Falclaw is going to be totally worthless.

Zorafim
Dec 18, 2013, 12:13 AM
Well remember that this crafting will allow some weapons to be multiclass.

Rakurai
Dec 18, 2013, 12:47 AM
I really hope that there will be an extend effect that adds T-ATK onto a weapon that doesn't have it normally.

Mostly because I'd like to have a good T-ATK TMG to try Gunner/Force with, since it could actually work due to Gunner's JA bonuses affecting all forms of damage, but the Brauvint's wimpy 579 T-ATK isn't really going to cut it.

gigawuts
Dec 18, 2013, 06:21 AM
What I'm really interested in is the fact that grind and element didn't change when they did their extendy thing. It went in +10 and came out +10.

I mean, I know they're trying to add improved content but that just doesn't seem very player friendly...so what's the deal?

Leave it to Sega to add improved content and never ever ever actually fix older content beyond a small number tweak.

Zenobia
Dec 18, 2013, 07:37 AM
Gonna make all my fave PA strong as Fuck.

Sonic Arrow

Rising Slash

Bloody Sarabande

Kanran kikyou

Slide End

And so the hell on I cannot wait.

jooozek
Dec 18, 2013, 07:43 AM
unless you magically make those techniques, you ain't making them stronger

Rakurai
Dec 18, 2013, 07:44 AM
Only techs can be changed in the initial release of the system.

Won't be surprised if they broaden it out to include PAs eventually, though.

TaigaUC
Dec 18, 2013, 08:09 AM
I dunno, I think that if they intended to add PA customization they would've kept delaying crafting until it was complete.
Considering that they already delayed it, they probably don't plan on adding to it. At least, not for a long time.
I also kinda get the impression that they only added tech customization because casters rely more heavily on techs than weapon variety.

Zenobia
Dec 18, 2013, 08:13 AM
unless you magically make those techniques, you ain't making them stronger

That was actually sarcasm though kinda torn its only for techs when I looked at the stream gg. Kinda bullshit if ya ask me.

Rakurai
Dec 24, 2013, 07:15 AM
I really hope they aren't going to require you to break down 7* units for the lower level extends, as those are a real pain to get.

I'm personally hoping they'll only have five different items needed for extending range/strike/tech weapons and rear/arm/leg units. which would be a common and rare result from breaking down 7*-9* items (More given for higher rarity), a common and rare result from breaking down 10* items, and PA fragments from range/strike/techs discs (More given for higher level and rarity).

Having to go through each rarity tier as you extend an item could be really troublesome.

jcart953
Dec 24, 2013, 01:15 PM
I really hope they aren't going to require you to break down 7* units for the lower level extends, as those are a real pain to get.

I'm personally hoping they'll only have five different items needed for extending range/strike/tech weapons and rear/arm/leg units. which would be a common and rare result from breaking down 7*-9* items (More given for higher rarity), a common and rare result from breaking down 10* items, and PA fragments from range/strike/techs discs (More given for higher level and rarity).

Having to go through each rarity tier as you extend an item could be really troublesome.

Well 9*units are pretty common and cheap (at least for now) so I don't think it should be that hard. From my understand I think the "crafting materials" you get can only give you aironia (low lvl crafting stuff) or rubiard from getting the "jackpot". So its basically seems like a succeed or greatly succeed kind of thing when de-synthesizing.

WBMike
Dec 24, 2013, 02:59 PM
Well 9*units are pretty common and cheap (at least for now) so I don't think it should be that hard. From my understand I think the "crafting materials" you get can only give you aironia (low lvl crafting stuff) or rubiard from getting the "jackpot". So its basically seems like a succeed or greatly succeed kind of thing when de-synthesizing.

It's also too early to say that Aironia and Rubiard are the ONLY materials. There's also the possibilities you can get other "rarer" materials from breaking down higher rarity weapons/units. So far LV. 1 recipes required Aironia, a Level 6 recipe needed rubiard, but a Lv. 7 recipe needed Stinia.

Rakurai
Dec 24, 2013, 02:59 PM
There's different tiers of crafting materials, as a level 7 extend for a striking weapon required a rubiard and some common stone wasn't aironia.

jcart953
Dec 24, 2013, 05:13 PM
It's also too early to say that Aironia and Rubiard are the ONLY materials. There's also the possibilities you can get other "rarer" materials from breaking down higher rarity weapons/units. So far LV. 1 recipes required Aironia, a Level 6 recipe needed rubiard, but a Lv. 7 recipe needed Stinia.

Didn't mean to imply those would be the only ones. More or less trying to say it seems like there would be 2 categories a super rare (rubiard type materials ) and common aironia. From what it sounds like is that maybe common type materials would come from 7-9* (and maybe 10) and super rare stuff comes from maybe greatly de-synthesizing(think bump calls it "jackpot") a common 7-9 or maybe 10* 2. So I would assume he doenst have to worry about finding 7*s as I would assume 9*s could get the same materials.

Atleast that's how I hope it works...

Omega-z
Dec 24, 2013, 07:14 PM
Aironia & Rubiard sound like the 9* Gemstones/alloys in PSU Armania & Rubinad. lol

musicmf
Dec 24, 2013, 07:48 PM
Having to go through each rarity tier as you extend an item could be really troublesome.

And Storage consuming >_>;
I already have a bunch of AQ and XQ stones blocking up precious slots in my storage... I can only think of the horror to come with the crafting system.

If only the storage expansion AC purchases were permanent, but alas Sega wants our money.
(Then of course, incoming "Rare De-Synthesis Up" AC items to get the rare stones more frequently / in higher amounts to generate even more sales)

Original_DFO
Dec 24, 2013, 09:03 PM
So does this make 11* equips even MORE useless?

I mean current top tier SH weapons seem to be as good as the 11* stone shop weapons. Not only that but's they are way easier to obtain. As for units top tier SH units are far superior IMO.

So now sega is giving us the option to make our current SH units and 10*'s even STRONGER? lmao. I don't see a point for 11* weapons atm.

gigawuts
Dec 24, 2013, 09:12 PM
So does this make 11* equips even MORE useless?

I mean current top tier SH weapons seem to be as good as the 11* stone shop weapons. Not only that but's they are way easier to obtain. As for units top tier SH units are far superior IMO.

So now sega is giving us the option to make our current SH units and 10*'s even STRONGER? lmao. I don't see a point for 11* weapons atm.

Welcome to F2P planned obsolescence.

At their release 11* weapons were the best in the game, hands down.

They've now been out for quite a while.

The only question remaining is how long it'll be until the new Super XQs show up.

NoiseHERO
Dec 24, 2013, 09:16 PM
Soon 11* will replace 10* And we'll get 50 11* weapons that outshine 12* weapons.

Or SEGA's just stupidweird and they're just going to forever center everything around 10* for a year before 11* goes through same process.

UnLucky
Dec 24, 2013, 09:26 PM
And Storage consuming >_>;

As if that wasn't specifically designed to sell temporary bank space.

"Hey you'd better keep all fifty of these entirely separate red crystals since they cost an entry fee to obtain."

I've discarded my AQ stones several times now when they're not enough for a trade-in and I don't plan on running the specific area anymore. Enough is enough, I don't need to hoard all this filth!

NoiseHERO
Dec 24, 2013, 09:28 PM
Wasn't one of the future system changes letting us have 999 of more items? or something?

angrysquid
Dec 24, 2013, 09:29 PM
Ye you can hold 999 Grinders in your inventory for more Dudu quality time

UnLucky
Dec 24, 2013, 09:29 PM
Yeah to let certain items stack to 999 in your inventory, as they do in storage.

Like grinders and photon drops, and hopefully trade-in stones. Definitely not consumables, though.

moeri
Dec 24, 2013, 11:07 PM
Yeah to let certain items stack to 999 in your inventory, as they do in storage.

Like grinders and photon drops, and hopefully trade-in stones. Definitely not consumables, though.

wait, grinders/photon drops only stack to 999?

im getting close to that number now, guess I should use some on something random

DragonForce
Dec 26, 2013, 03:31 AM
Interesting...might have to give this game a try next month.

Ratazana
Dec 26, 2013, 05:17 AM
Lets not forget that the baldie himself said that crafting will not be about making BIS gear - it's supposed to just be a customization thing allowing people to use the gear models they like. He also said that there wouldn't be scratch reruns though...

Anyway it's probably going to take months to get the crafting level high enough to mess with 10 stars.

Kondibon
Dec 26, 2013, 05:21 AM
Anyway it's probably going to take months to get the crafting level high enough to mess with 10 stars.
This is something I'm really worried about personally. On top of the randomness of getting a specific thing, and needing to collect mats. It seems like it'd take forever to get something you want. Though, depending on how many mats you need and what they come from it might not be too much of a gold sink compared to affixing/grinding.

Rakurai
Dec 26, 2013, 05:34 AM
I'm considering buying a 500 slot storage, then cramming it with 50 weapons of each damage type and rarity (Aside from 10*, since I have nearly a hundred of those in my premium storage), which would take up 450 slots total. Remaining 50 slots would go to various level 16 6* discs.

I think that could get me fairly far.

TaigaUC
Dec 26, 2013, 10:07 AM
You just know they're going to ruin it somehow. SEGA is their own monkey wrench.
I'm expecting something like having to break down tons of 10 stars for materials.

Inazuma
Dec 26, 2013, 05:15 PM
Or maybe there is no way to redo crafting so unless you get perfect results for every level of extend, your weapon is essentially destroyed and you will have to start over from scratch with a new weapon.

Enforcer MKV
Dec 26, 2013, 05:23 PM
Or maybe there is no way to redo crafting so unless you get perfect results for every level of extend, your weapon is essentially destroyed and you will have to start over from scratch with a new weapon.

Egads, that's a horrifying thought.

MetalDude
Dec 26, 2013, 05:37 PM
It's hard to say. I'm skeptical because anything guaranteed in this game is absolute shit or takes a ton of time (ie. hunting bosses for rares, grinding for XQ stones), but the lack of Dudu/Monica bullshit is a plus.

UnLucky
Dec 26, 2013, 06:22 PM
Or maybe there is no way to redo crafting so unless you get perfect results for every level of extend, your weapon is essentially destroyed and you will have to start over from scratch with a new weapon.
I was under the impression there was an intermediate step between crafting and extending.

So you use a recipe to craft an extend code, then you can choose whether to apply the extension onto something or not.

Though if you can't remove or replace previous extensions, then the whole "success or great success" is a sham.

Oh don't worry, you didn't "fail" to grind your weapon to +10, it actually "succeeded" to +6, permanently.

gigawuts
Dec 26, 2013, 06:37 PM
Yeah, "success or great success" is bullshit. In grinding terms, it'd be like this:
You can try to grind your weapon. It will always go up +1. It might go up +10 but it probably won't and +10 is all anyone wants (just like the grinding we have now!). Attempting will be expensive and require different recipes and ingredients depending on the weapon.

Crafting, ladies and gentlemen. And that's just what we know so far, think of the catches they aren't telling us.

Rakurai
Dec 26, 2013, 09:58 PM
I'd like to hope that "great successes" will only do things like make additional classes able to use a weapon or add a bit of T-ATK onto a weapon that doesn't normally have it, rather then providing a larger increase to its primary attack stat.

Basically, I want them to add some utility rather then making them flat out better.

jooozek
Dec 27, 2013, 03:46 AM
they've put out the hd quality crafting trailer

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iEWjMRR4yzk

UnLucky
Dec 27, 2013, 04:40 PM
I'd like to hope that "great successes" will only do things like make additional classes able to use a weapon or add a bit of T-ATK onto a weapon that doesn't normally have it, rather then providing a larger increase to its primary attack stat.

Basically, I want them to add some utility rather then making them flat out better.

It'll do both, of course.

So if you wanted your weapon to be multi-class, you would have to repeatedly attempt for the great success which includes the class you want to be able to equip it.

While at the same time, hoping for a great success on the Atk value as well

TaigaUC
Dec 27, 2013, 07:07 PM
I'm assuming you can't uncraft a weapon, so if you're trying for an all-class and you max out the weapon, you'll have to get a new one and try again.
True or false?

TehblackUchiha
Dec 27, 2013, 07:11 PM
I'm assuming you can't uncraft a weapon, so if you're trying for an all-class and you max out the weapon, you'll have to get a new one and try again.
True or false?

im pretty sure you will be able to reapply a craft of the same level, hopefully the system won't be flawed like that but this game has managed to get it wrong so many times.

gigawuts
Dec 27, 2013, 07:14 PM
In the trailer they show a Vitasword ExLv1. When brought into the crafting selection screen they display options for ExLv1 and ExLv2.

It sounds like you'll be able to redo at least the current level. Maybe they'll even allow you to redo prior levels?

TaigaUC
Dec 27, 2013, 07:15 PM
I'm expecting them to do it that way because then it keeps people farming for items.
Otherwise we'd just reuse stuff. Although the breaking down for materials systems covers that too.

I'll definitely be pleased if it's easy to make weapons all-class.

gigawuts
Dec 27, 2013, 07:21 PM
Screens
[spoiler-box]
check the top right of the sword's info window to see ExLv1
http://puu.sh/60JVu.jpg

item materials required are Aironia x1, PA Fragment (Striking) x1, and 1,000 Meseta
http://puu.sh/60JWt.jpg

The user selects Level 2 and you can see it says here エクステンドレベル2 (Extend Level 2)
http://puu.sh/60JX6.jpg

and the result
http://puu.sh/60KaQ.jpg[/spoiler-box]

edit: More info I should point out because it is relevant
In screen 2 it shows info on the Extend recipe. It specifies 1~3 star items - suggesting recipes are for specific item rarities. I'd bet higher level rares will only get higher level Extend Levels.
What's interesting about this is this resipe also specifies Striking (打), meaning different recipes for different weapon groups. Potential downside? This might only benefit that one stat type. Worst case scenario: Wands are forced to pick between extending satk and tatk. Of course, it might also just be there to promote specializing for reselling items and the recipe title won't impact the stats it improves, so who knows. This weapon now has the untradable bind icon. Yellow, which is for non-10*s.

WildarmsRE5
Dec 28, 2013, 02:21 AM
did the trailer show we can break down 11* weapons too?

Rakurai
Dec 28, 2013, 02:25 AM
No.

They noted that it's limited to 1-10* star weapons. For now, at least.

Considering that you could extend 12* weapons in PSP 2 Infinity, I imagine it'll likely implemented down the line.

Arksenth
Dec 28, 2013, 02:42 AM
In the trailer they show a Vitasword ExLv1. When brought into the crafting selection screen they display options for ExLv1 and ExLv2.

It sounds like you'll be able to redo at least the current level. Maybe they'll even allow you to redo prior levels?

No, we're working for SEGA now, remember?

The way it works is that you get it up to ExLv9, but your ExLv9 upgrade fails horribly and makes the requirement on your sword 990 S-ATK to equip for a base of 100 S-ATK.

So you have an option of going on to ExLv10 with that being carried over and maybe diminishing the requirement to 980 S-ATK, or restart from ExLv1

:wacko:

Oh, you can buy AC Protects to prevent that from happening.

UnLucky
Dec 28, 2013, 02:42 AM
Interesting to note that sword has a 300 S-Atk requirement, even though normally the Vita Sword requires 393. And then after the extension it increases to 304.

Looks like that particular recipe replaces those particular stats for any 1-3* sword.

Which means using higher level recipes and higher level extensions could mean 600+ requirements on low rarity items.

And 10* recipes may not grant nearly as high of a boost, but every 10* could reach the same base stats. That's good, since lower rarity stuff can actually be comparable, and the only real difference would be the latent and skin.

I'm expecting 11* and 12* recipes to be added later, not only because of drip feed and planned obsolescence, but they'll see how 10* crafting is first. It'll probably mean they'll get a bigger stat gain on their recipes than 10*s.

Arksenth
Dec 28, 2013, 02:45 AM
Interesting to note that sword has a 300 S-Atk requirement, even though normally the Vita Sword requires 393. And then after the extension it increases to 304.

Looks like that particular recipe replaces those particular stats for any 1-3* sword.

Which means using higher level recipes and higher level extensions could mean 600+ requirements on low rarity items.

And 10* recipes may not grant nearly as high of a boost, but every 10* could reach the same base stats. That's good, since lower rarity stuff can actually be comparable, and the only real difference would be the latent and skin.

I'm expecting 11* and 12* recipes to be added later, not only because of drip feed and planned obsolescence, but they'll see how 10* crafting is first. It'll probably mean they'll get a bigger stat gain on their recipes than 10*s.

I actually suspect that you're on the mark. For a previous screenie I saw, the demo guy had multiple wands in his inventory and ALL of them had a T-ATK of 894. So I'm assuming the recipes will bring them to an attack that's just below a certain threshold that won't completely outclass the current top 10*s, but comparable?

moeri
Dec 28, 2013, 07:23 AM
After looking at some of the options for the different changes for techs... I saw that the number of hits can be increased for some techniques...

This would be great for techniques that only hit once right now like namegid.

Rakurai
Dec 28, 2013, 07:58 AM
It looks as though you can attempt for a great success on a weapon repeatedly, as I noticed that the required extend level for a level 6 extend said it was 5 to 6.

moeri
Dec 28, 2013, 08:18 AM
It looks as though you can attempt for a great success on a weapon repeatedly, as I noticed that the required extend level for a level 6 extend said it was 5 to 6.

Looks like to me, you are able to continue extending until meeting some cap on the weapon value. Not exactly sure if that is the case though.

gigawuts
Dec 28, 2013, 08:37 AM
I had a chat with Ric about this stuff and our collective heads picked up on a few things

1. It looks like items are in Extend Code categories
- The seen categories are for 1-3* and 4-6*
-- This is noteworthy because that would adhere to the grinding bonus categories: 1-3* is 150% at +10, 4-6* is 160% bonus at +10, 7-9* is 175%, and 10* is 190%. This suggests 7-9* are in their own category too, and then 10* by itself. For reference, 11*s are 195% and 12*s are 200%.
2. A 6* is shown at ExLv6 being upgraded to ExLv7. I'm betting it started at somewhere between ExLv 4 and 6, since anything lower would've been for 1-3*s. They do show a 3* at ExLv 10, so you'll still have to go through the whole thing to max out any particular weapon.
3. You start with only ExLv1 unlocked in the recipe grid. This leads on to unlocking ExLv2, which in turn unlocks ExLv3. This means you'll be burning through 1-3*s long before you can finish maxing something out.
4. An item's original atk stats has no impact on its Extended stats. None. Nothing. This is how old weapons with lower stats will be balanced with new weapons with higher stats - they'll be given completely new stats. Yes, that means the oldschool Fordran Ardillou with the JA Latent will now have exactly the same base atk as the Predicahda Lambda Ardillou with the same JA Latent. I've assumed this is the real reason they're adding new latents - to distinguish reskins. This is good(ish).
5. A couple stats
- The 3* Vitasword ExLv1 requires 300 satk
- The 3* Vitasword ExLv2 requires 304 satk
- The 3* Vitasword ExLv10 requires 480 satk
- The 6* Vitaclaymore ExLv7 requires 480 satk
- A standard Vitasword, ingame right now, requires 393 satk
- A standard 6* Vitaclaymore, ingame right now, requires 485 satk

TaigaUC
Dec 28, 2013, 09:51 AM
The Japanese Wiki has an article about crafting. I haven't checked it out yet though:
http://pso2.swiki.jp/index.php?%E3%82%AF%E3%83%A9%E3%83%95%E3%83%88

Ratazana
Dec 28, 2013, 11:14 AM
From the wiki:

You can use lilipanium (available as a TD drop, AC shop) to get instant crafting.

Each additional craft slot (6 to 9) is gonna cost 300 AC.

Special properties like tech dmg on melee weapons and equippable by additional classes will be erased. So if you extend a Missouri Twin for example it will no longer be all class.

11★ units can be customized.

gigawuts
Dec 28, 2013, 01:01 PM
Will those AC craft slots be permanently available? Also, do we know if crafting is a character level or an account level? I'd think character, but you can't be too sure.

Also, wow. Losing allclass status. That's harsh.

Arksenth
Dec 28, 2013, 01:10 PM
I would think account if it's tied to your room? Then again, Support Characters are also, and those are character-based.

But basically, it looks like the only things that will matter after crafting are appearance, latent, affixes and elements - everything else is normalized. So the only thing really worth chucking into the system are probably going to be stuff with strong latents, because I suspect that even at max level, a fully crafted item is going to be weaker than the top items out there. It's pretty wise (for SEGA at least) that they're updating the latent system with the crafting system, because some of the latents are a little lackluster.

But yuuuuush 11* units can be crafted. MAYBE THEN I CAN ACTUALLY JUSTIFY USING THEM. (sobs)

Ratazana
Dec 28, 2013, 01:53 PM
Also doublespeak warning:

Success = Failure
Great Success = Success

Anything besides a big success can be considered a failure.

The 7 to 9 slots appear to be permanent. 4 to 6 last as long as you are premium.

IndigoNovember
Dec 28, 2013, 02:16 PM
Also doublespeak warning:

Success = Failure
Great Success = Success

Anything besides a big success can be considered a failure.

I know, right?



The 7 to 9 slots appear to be permanent.

I'm hoping this is true. It'd really suck to have to re-purchase those slots for every different thing you want to craft.

gigawuts
Dec 28, 2013, 02:17 PM
But completely Sega. I'm still aghast that character inventory slot expansions are permanent. I mean, yeah, they're 1600 ac, but still.

dr apocalipsis
Dec 28, 2013, 03:01 PM
11★ units can be customized.

Yes, please.

jcart953
Dec 28, 2013, 03:37 PM
From the wiki:



11★ units can be customized.

If this is true ol happy days, I can finally stop looking at my 11* units in disguist. At the same time kind of sad since i just finished affixing some units.


Special properties like tech dmg on melee weapons and equippable by additional classes will be erased. So if you extend a Missouri Twin for example it will no longer be all class.

Wow this sucks seems to be a blow to hybrids...unless they just want you to gain the mutli class status back through crafting....

Arksenth
Dec 28, 2013, 03:42 PM
Wouldn't it be hilarious if the crafting recipe altered your prized Brauvint such that it could only be equipped by TE and not by GU anymore?

wwwwww

Best game, SEGA. DO THIS.

Rakurai
Dec 28, 2013, 04:10 PM
It's nice that you can change the stat spread on units, but I'm curious as to how extending is going to affect the resistances on them.

I've always wanted to be able to use the Chrome/Haze set, but the high tech defense and lack of any damage resistances made it pretty mediocre.

Maninbluejumpsuit
Dec 28, 2013, 04:39 PM
From the wiki:

You can use lilipanium (available as a TD drop, AC shop) to get instant crafting.

Each additional craft slot (6 to 9) is gonna cost 300 AC.

Special properties like tech dmg on melee weapons and equippable by additional classes will be erased. So if you extend a Missouri Twin for example it will no longer be all class.

11★ units can be customized.

Looks like view ray obscura will be better than a susanoguren assuming there's no opportunity cost to multiclassing weapons.

TaigaUC
Dec 28, 2013, 04:40 PM
They might still add failure later on. I can see it now:

Epic Failure = Character Deletion
Great Failure = -100000 Meseta
Failure = 0 materials
Success = some materials
Great Success = some good materials
Epic Success = Quna Live Concert

gigawuts
Dec 28, 2013, 04:42 PM
They won't add failures, they'll just add the possibility to Super Greatly Succeed.

I have full confidence Class Tickets will be added eventually though, so you can force a weapon to be usable by a specific class. Probably in 6 months.

The Walrus
Dec 28, 2013, 04:43 PM
Whoa whoa whoa, all class weapons are gonna lose all class status if you extend them?

That's bullshit :I

TaigaUC
Dec 28, 2013, 04:46 PM
Fatal Success = Character Deletion
Expensive Success = -100000 Meseta
Empty Success = 0 materials
Success = some materials
Great Success = some good materials
Epic Success = Quna Live Concert

Fixed.

Zyrusticae
Dec 28, 2013, 04:47 PM
Whoa whoa whoa, all class weapons are gonna lose all class status if you extend them?

That's bullshit :I
It makes a kind of sense though, since you're literally overwriting the item's old stats, such that the old stats are not even a factor.

Hence, if you want a strong all-class (or multi-class) item, you're going to have to make it yourself.

TaigaUC
Dec 28, 2013, 04:49 PM
Special properties like tech dmg on melee weapons and equippable by additional classes will be erased. So if you extend a Missouri Twin for example it will no longer be all class.

Ugh. I was afraid of this.
Yes, I expected it.

The Walrus
Dec 28, 2013, 04:51 PM
It makes a kind of sense though, since you're literally overwriting the item's old stats, such that the old stats are not even a factor.

Hence, if you want a strong all-class (or multi-class) item, you're going to have to make it yourself.

I guess it makes sense when you put bit that way but still a bit annoying :/

UnLucky
Dec 28, 2013, 04:54 PM
Yeah but that means there will be recipes and/or great success chances to get those kind of stats on any weapon.


Wouldn't it be hilarious if the crafting recipe altered your prized Brauvint such that it could only be equipped by TE and not by GU anymore?

wwwwww

Best game, SEGA. DO THIS.
That wouldn't happen unless there was a recipe for TMGs that replaced the equipment requirements with only Techer. If you went ahead with it and were surprised at the result then that's entirely your own fault.

TaigaUC
Dec 28, 2013, 05:00 PM
My poor Agitos :(
Well, at least they still look better than 99% of the katanas.
Just need a bit of polish, that's all.

Quote
Dec 28, 2013, 05:04 PM
Here's the crafting system in action, in case any of you are curious.(From the last broadcast.)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E6r5soZicwA

NoiseHERO
Dec 28, 2013, 05:04 PM
So basically this is PSU crafting mixed with the weapon camo system we WANTED mixed with PSO2's notorious RNG...

Interesting-annoying + cool + extremely annoying = This game still has everyone by the balls.

The Walrus
Dec 28, 2013, 05:18 PM
God I love having my balls in Sakai's cold iron grip :3

jcart953
Dec 28, 2013, 05:34 PM
Here's the crafting system in action, in case any of you are curious.(From the last broadcast.)

PSO2???#15 6????????? - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E6r5soZicwA)

So I see a mace of adaman with 896 t attack thats probably around its max potential and guessing the fire club latent one would be the same.


Edit:
Around the 8min mark, you can see the cost to place the crafting machines inside your room. Looks to be around 2 each?. So its looking like those with mini rooms wount be hurt to bad lol.

TehblackUchiha
Dec 28, 2013, 05:42 PM
Some observations from the video (correct me if im wrong):

- You CAN reapply the same recipe onto an already crafted weapon for a chance at great success

- it looked like there was an item that can shrink 10% of the weapons required stat also on units you can choose which defense you want the armor to be based on.

Stickboy
Dec 28, 2013, 10:08 PM
i wonder if getting greatly success gives random multiclass or we can pick which multiclass we want

'cuz i remember that vid getting a sword multiclass to hunter and techer (or was it force)

gigawuts
Dec 28, 2013, 10:21 PM
Some observations from the video (correct me if im wrong):

- You CAN reapply the same recipe onto an already crafted weapon for a chance at great success

- it looked like there was an item that can shrink 10% of the weapons required stat also on units you can choose which defense you want the armor to be based on.

Yes, they displayed an ExLv6 Vitaclaymore's options for Extending, and they were ExLv6 and ExLv7. It looks like you can continuously reattempt at least that level. It's still uncertain if max Extended weapons can be reattempted.

Ratazana
Dec 29, 2013, 02:47 AM
From the wiki:

1. Basics

With crafting you got the standard effect and a random one. The random effect you get it's somewhat defined (like drinks perhaps). Going for a particular effect might take a lot of tries.

You got 9 lines (crafting slot). 3 are free, 3 premium and 3 can be acquired on the AC shop for 300 a pop.

You can craft stuff from the my room panel but it seems you get bonuses for having crafting room goods in place like shorter cd timers. You can get those goods by completing Arks Road.

2. Extend

With extend you will be overwriting an item attributes. Basically it makes weak weapons strong or strong weapons (top tier) weaker. Special properties like all class, additional dmg type, status bonus from units will be erased. Only thing that remains the same is model, rarity, grinds, potential, affixes, element and set bonus.

You can get additional classes on weapons with a big success. You can also craft and extended item to get it as well. The additional effects are only meant for the current extend level. Even if you get additional classes at Lv1 you will lose it at Lv 2. You can re-extend at the same level. Chances of a big success are higher if you are doing a same Lv extension.

Extended stuff are not tradeable. Weapons up to 10★ and units up to 11★ can be extended.

3. Tech Customization

You current tech will be overwritten by the customized disk. There are recipes do for additional dmg, rng, shorter charges, x2 hits. You will get a bad effect as well like less dmg, costs more pp, lower chance of applying SE, etc. The side effect is random but defined by the recipe.

You can't get your old tech if you overwrite it with a crappy effect.

4. Desynthesis

You can desynthetize weapons and units higher than 7★ and Lv11 or higher disks.

Some reagents can only be gotten with a big success.

There is no CD to desynthetize.

Aaand TD on ship one. This is it for now.

Rakurai
Dec 29, 2013, 03:05 AM
I'd like to hope they have some recipes that let you turn a weapon into a hybrid weapon by adding T-ATK onto it, so that class combos like FO/GU can actually be viable.

Zyrusticae
Dec 29, 2013, 03:51 AM
With extend you will be overwriting an item attributes. Basically it makes weak weapons strong or strong weapons (top tier) weaker.
Wait wut

I mean I kind of expected this, but... extending a weapon to make it weaker?

Well, now we know that the top-tier weapons are just going to stay right where they are.

Ratazana
Dec 29, 2013, 04:30 AM
Baldy has been saying from the beginning that crafting won't be about uber gear and more about giving people more "options".

Each extend lv will have a flat rate and even maxed it will be weaker than the best stuff out there. Even if we could customize 11★ there would be no point.

Allclass is underwhelming as well. It's going to take a lot of effort and money to get the class you want and it won't be any better than the current multiclass weapons.

The new latents might make some low tier weapons desirable but the best latents are probably gonna be on the top tier weapons.

SEGAC knows how people value some multiple dmg combinations so it's not gonna hand it over like that. A twin mech with 900/900 looks good but I guess that if available it will be behind a random effect from a recipe requiring rare reagents.

Crafting seems it's gonna cater the fashionable people who REALLY want x weapon with y unit to match their new costume.

Tech customization looks solid though! Dunno if it the age of Forces is coming but they will def get stronger. Tech dmg % seems to work like shifta/deban profiency skill so a hit in the dmg is gonna be negligible while 2hits (if available to all techs) is gonna double Forces firepower. Practically a Sroll JA that requires a lot of money.

Aine
Dec 29, 2013, 04:56 AM
You can't get your old tech if you overwrite it with a crappy effect.

lol
have fun "succeeding" until you get the tech you want

Ratazana
Dec 29, 2013, 05:25 AM
Perhaps I should rephrase that - the wiki is kinda ambiguous. It say's you customize disks and use 'em to overwrite your techs so I don't see why you couldn't overwrite a custom tech with a vanilla disk. It does mention that if overwrite it you can't go back to the vanilla tech (that will come at some point later).

Emp
Dec 29, 2013, 06:33 AM
From the wiki:

1. Basics

With crafting you got the standard effect and a random one. The random effect you get it's somewhat defined (like drinks perhaps). Going for a particular effect might take a lot of tries.

You got 9 lines (crafting slot). 3 are free, 3 premium and 3 can be acquired on the AC shop for 300 a pop.

You can craft stuff from the my room panel but it seems you get bonuses for having crafting room goods in place like shorter cd timers. You can get those goods by completing Arks Road.

2. Extend

With extend you will be overwriting an item attributes. Basically it makes weak weapons strong or strong weapons (top tier) weaker. Special properties like all class, additional dmg type, status bonus from units will be erased. Only thing that remains the same is model, rarity, grinds, potential, affixes, element and set bonus.

You can get additional classes on weapons with a big success. You can also craft and extended item to get it as well. The additional effects are only meant for the current extend level. Even if you get additional classes at Lv1 you will lose it at Lv 2. You can re-extend at the same level. Chances of a big success are higher if you are doing a same Lv extension.

Extended stuff are not tradeable. Weapons up to 10★ and units up to 11★ can be extended.

3. Tech Customization

You current tech will be overwritten by the customized disk. There are recipes do for additional dmg, rng, shorter charges, x2 hits. You will get a bad effect as well like less dmg, costs more pp, lower chance of applying SE, etc. The side effect is random but defined by the recipe.

You can't get your old tech if you overwrite it with a crappy effect.

4. Desynthesis

You can desynthetize weapons and units higher than 7★ and Lv11 or higher disks.

Some reagents can only be gotten with a big success.

There is no CD to desynthetize.

Aaand TD on ship one. This is it for now.

So u lose the stat bonuses on units, like the +30 atk on varda units?

TaigaUC
Dec 29, 2013, 07:14 AM
Extended stuff not tradable huh... hmmmm.

Limbo_lag
Dec 29, 2013, 07:26 AM
Wouldn't be surprised if the cooldown timer was something like an hour :/

Also:


2. Extend

With extend you will be overwriting an item attributes. Basically it makes weak weapons strong or strong weapons (top tier) weaker. Special properties like all class, additional dmg type, status bonus from units will be erased. Only thing that remains the same is model, rarity, grinds, potential, affixes, element and set bonus.


=_=

What is this going to mean for 11* weapons (when/if they can be extended) I wonder.

Well, at least it seems set bonuses will remain, though removal of status bonus is really bad (I'm assuming stuff like strike/dark/etc. resist?). You'd be trading these percentage resists for raw stat upgrades. Seems kinda counterintuitive to me :/

Biggest question of all? Why would anyone want to make a top-tier weapon weaker? Only thing I can think of is to equip it at a lower level, but we can simply use lower tiered, cheaper gear for that :-? This seems it will be okay for low tier stuff, but absolutely terrible for high tiers. Removal of all class and bonus stats, especially...

Ratazana
Dec 29, 2013, 07:54 AM
Units will lose hp, pp, resists.

Extend at max lv will be comparable to 10★ 5th tier (weapons with 650 main stat requirement).

Limbo_lag
Dec 29, 2013, 07:58 AM
So the only way to improve upon it would be to craft it till it has similar traits to what was lost? =_=

UnLucky
Dec 29, 2013, 09:41 AM
Yeah, the idea is to make anything close to the best with a lot of work, but the current best gets nothing from it.

gigawuts
Dec 29, 2013, 09:45 AM
You can't get your old tech if you overwrite it with a crappy effect.

http://i.imgur.com/H1Myoz6.jpg

final_attack
Dec 29, 2013, 10:00 AM
Make top tier weapon weaker? =_=" All-class also erased? Now, it's most likely a waste after I bought Agito for levelling Hunter OTL

TaigaUC
Dec 29, 2013, 10:06 AM
http://i.imgur.com/H1Myoz6.jpg

Billions of blistering blue barnacles!

UnLucky
Dec 29, 2013, 10:12 AM
That's why it's important to craft a good tech before learning it.


Merits and Demerits exist along a range of values so there’s a chance you can craft a technic where the positive values outweigh the negatives. Good luck!

gigawuts
Dec 29, 2013, 10:23 AM
Oh of course, but the fact that you can't just unlearn something...

I'm just flabbergasted.

isCasted
Dec 29, 2013, 10:24 AM
Merits and Demerits exist along a range of values so there’s a chance you can craft a technic where the positive values outweigh the negatives.

That's what I thought. There won't be such things as normal and great success like they say. It's either great success or not success at all.

MetalDude
Dec 29, 2013, 10:26 AM
There's a scary lack of freedom to experiment with extend codes. It's one thing to lose additional damage effects and all-class on weapons, but it's another entirely to lose stat bonuses on units which is the primary thing that drives their appeal in the first place. The extend effects better be really fucking good for this to be worthwhile.

gigawuts
Dec 29, 2013, 10:28 AM
Yes, Extend Codes should be scaling all stats relative to the highest one.

i.e.

if madame's umbrella has 400 tatk and 800 satk (it doesn't, but if it did)

and if the Extend Code SATK value was 500 (it's not, but if it was)

Then doing an Extend Code would set the satk to 500, and then the tatk would be set to 400/800 = 50% of that, so 250 tatk

But hey what do I know.

Arksenth
Dec 29, 2013, 10:29 AM
Only 5th tier 10* weapon strength for all that work... Really?

Ugh, it's like this update isn't even worth it. Just buy the top tiers instead, everyone. I bet they won't even release new recipes when the next tier of weapons come out rendering your customized weapons even MORE useless.

It could be useful for weapons with better latents, but with the latent update, the top tier weapons will probably get all the best latents anyway.

Ratazana
Dec 29, 2013, 10:37 AM
Yes, Extend Codes should be scaling all stats relative to the highest one.

i.e.

if madame's umbrella has 400 tatk and 800 satk (it doesn't, but if it did)

and if the Extend Code SATK value was 500 (it's not, but if it was)

Then doing an Extend Code would set the satk to 500, and then the tatk would be set to 400/800 = 50% of that, so 250 tatk

But hey what do I know.

I think you would lose the tatk on that that case.

AC items to aid crafting on scratches/ac shop...

Well knowing SEGA the most desirable effects are probably gonna take a lot of tries. It will probably going to cost tons of AC/memeta to get anything good done. Dudu on steroids.

EQ all over again.. here, we are gonna trade this nice weapon for a bazillion of stones. Oh, yeah, we are gonna drip feed you the stones so it will take one year k thx. SEGA~🎵

UnLucky
Dec 29, 2013, 10:52 AM
Oh of course, but the fact that you can't just unlearn something...

I'm just flabbergasted.

Perhaps there will be a "neutral" recipe that, upon great success, restores your tech to normal.

Zyrusticae
Dec 29, 2013, 01:03 PM
Only 5th tier 10* weapon strength for all that work... Really?

Ugh, it's like this update isn't even worth it. Just buy the top tiers instead, everyone. I bet they won't even release new recipes when the next tier of weapons come out rendering your customized weapons even MORE useless.

It could be useful for weapons with better latents, but with the latent update, the top tier weapons will probably get all the best latents anyway.
Wat.

Seriously, I don't get this. Why do so many people act like anything that isn't top-of-the-line is "useless"? The differences in Atk between the highest-end weapons and mid-tier weapons is barely even worth mentioning.

Also, it's EXTREMELY obvious that this is an alternative to simply turning weapons into weapon camos and is thus intended for players who want to use weapons that have been useless since FOREVER. If you don't give any shits about how your weapon looks (or are already happy with your current weapon) then it's obviously not for you, that doesn't make the update worthless, it just makes it worthless FOR YOU.

Edit: Forgot to mention, Vita Sword at 1017 S-Atk? That's ONE S-Atk point away from matching the Dragon Slayer, which is the fourth strongest sword in the game in pure S-Atk (but unlike the Dragon Slayer, you can probably give it a non-useless latent). That's fucking huge. We don't even know how much effort that'll take, but as far as I'm concerned, that's good enough for me!

Edit #2: Also THE RARITY STAYS THE SAME. This means that vita sword is going to be easy as pie to grind. Actually, in some ways this is kind of imba, because those 1-3* weapons are so cheap to grind that sticking a powerful latent on them makes them by FAR the easiest and most cost-effective way to get a massive powerup very quickly (assuming you didn't bother to grind latents on 10*s, which I sure as hell didn't).

Edit #3: Oh, right, we don't know how they're going to handle latents down the line (right now crafting doesn't affect them, but they're obviously going to do something with them in the future). But still, if that happens... yeah.

jooozek
Dec 29, 2013, 01:14 PM
rarity staying the same means you will need shitloads of dex to offset the lack of the hidden dex multiplier (or maybe even it's a penalty like the red weapons have?) so basically nonrares will be as shit as they are now

Arksenth
Dec 29, 2013, 01:18 PM
Yeah, but the gap between the Dragon Slayer and next tier of swords is pretty big. With how easy meseta is to get in this game, I have no idea why people don't just keep up with that. Okay, appearance and latents, granted. But beyond that, most people should really still be using top tier stuff since everything else is useless in comparison due to the large gap.

Kikikiki
Dec 29, 2013, 01:21 PM
Not every "people" has premium.

Et cetera.

Zyrusticae
Dec 29, 2013, 01:22 PM
pretty big.
Difference between Dragon Slayer and the highest-end 10* (Zapper Edge) is 68 S-Atk.

"pretty big"

Excuse me while I try to find an image that fully expresses my current level of care.
[spoiler-box]
https://dhuvtw.blu.livefilestore.com/y2pmiS6WsloNIMuEy02cib4EvlfSfEkeWnSxTm_TGBuIt8Rv4_ I2XDe38r0NTTJXYnqZBLkEusEDDov5rfUY4yOkNUIVXygqGxRY 0jXC3-ZUas/1370023729346.jpg?psid=1[/spoiler-box]

rarity staying the same means you will need shitloads of dex to offset the lack of the hidden dex multiplier (or maybe even it's a penalty like the red weapons have?) so basically nonrares will be as shit as they are now
We'll see about that.

Not everyone goes pure Atk on their mags, either, you know.

Atmius
Dec 29, 2013, 01:24 PM
Edit: Forgot to mention, Vita Sword at 1017 S-Atk? That's ONE S-Atk point away from matching the Dragon Slayer, which is the fourth strongest sword in the game in pure S-Atk (but unlike the Dragon Slayer, you can probably give it a non-useless latent). That's fucking huge. We don't even know how much effort that'll take, but as far as I'm concerned, that's good enough for me!

I can't help but wonder why nobody notices that the vita sword pictured with this attack stat has a vol soul affixed to it.

Kondibon
Dec 29, 2013, 01:53 PM
We'll see about that.
It does however mean that rarer weapons will be able to get more out of being grinded than more common weapons. Weapons lower than 10* are still gonna cost way less to grind though. So really nothing changes on that front. What this REALLY means is that older and low rarity weapons will be more accessible choices for endgame content. They're still going to be weaker than higher rarity weapons under the same circumstances (barring latents).

Ratazana
Dec 29, 2013, 03:26 PM
Still to extend something all the way to max potential is probably take a long time and cost a lot of money with reagents. Low rarity stuff might be easier to 1050 but I don't think it's gonna be cheaper than buying an equivalent 10★.

I guess it will be all about the visual. Some people spend lots of money and costumes. They might spend some money on matching weapons as well. I think it will end being an expensive hobby.

The difference in attack between 'em and the next tier is negligible I think. The new latents might make some low rarity desirable. Maybe a poor's man guld milla or elysion that's slightly weaker but still pretty good and easy to 50%. Any low rarity weapon with op latents will be quite expensive though.

UnLucky
Dec 29, 2013, 05:06 PM
It does however mean that rarer weapons will be able to get more out of being grinded than more common weapons.
Yeah, 7-9* only gets 175% from +10 while 10*s get 190%. A 3* would get even less.

Since the crafting affects the base stats, 10*s would get the most out of it.

Though if you didn't care for ~70 Atk before, this is another ~70ish difference.

moeri
Dec 29, 2013, 05:32 PM
Yeah, but the gap between the Dragon Slayer and next tier of swords is pretty big. With how easy meseta is to get in this game, I have no idea why people don't just keep up with that. Okay, appearance and latents, granted. But beyond that, most people should really still be using top tier stuff since everything else is useless in comparison due to the large gap.

... Though most of the top tier stuff is
10+ star so I couldn't even buy it with meseta.

Actually I'm still using Seitenheise and the first fegali set so I would love to extend my weapon

Actually I hope this extend system and new Laurent's brings about a Stella twinkle revival

Ratazana
Dec 29, 2013, 06:04 PM
The fact you can't trade crafted stuff is a big disadvantage. All the money you spend on affixes is never coming back.

UnLucky
Dec 29, 2013, 06:14 PM
Yet another reason not to use it on 10*s

TaigaUC
Dec 29, 2013, 11:46 PM
It's a waste that everyone's going to have to vendor all their crafting crap as they level it up.
Can't get rid of failed --*AHEM*, not-as-"successful" items, either.
I guess they wanted everyone to waste time on the system or to socialize via crafting requests.

Sanguine2009
Dec 30, 2013, 01:13 AM
i coulda sworn they said crafted items bind to your account

gigawuts
Dec 30, 2013, 01:17 AM
That's right, crafted items gain the same status that equipped 7-9* items do when you pick them up after completion.

However, players will be able to make requests and attach all the required materials for attempting that craft. Another player will be able to accept the request, process it, and then the first player will pick it up. Presumably the player to process the request will gain experience.

I'm not sure about any charges or fees that could be tied to this, or if premium is required for either party.

Ratazana
Dec 30, 2013, 01:29 AM
There will be some sort of search function. You go to people's room and do the craft like you would in your own room.

jcart953
Dec 30, 2013, 12:43 PM
Well don't know if anybody has seen the new bump update but I thought I let people know more info on equipment:

Stats affected by Equipment Extension MAY include some of the following:
S-ATK, R-ATK, T-ATK values.
S-DEF, R-DEF, T-DEF values.
HP and PP (Units only)
Equipping Conditions (including equippable classes)
Stats NOT affected include:
Rarity
Grind Value
Element
Special Abilities
Latent Ability
Set Effects


Some of the stuff has already been stated before, so I bolded the important parts.
It seems like armors may no longer be all class :( and not to mention I don't even know what they mean by S/T/R attack values may be affected when extending equipment.

UnLucky
Dec 30, 2013, 12:49 PM
The new bumped article... from last week?

That's just a list of what crafting can do in general, not that you will be adding Def stats to weapons and class locking armor. Probably.

"Affecting" the stats can be an increase or decrease, depending on the recipe used.

gigawuts
Dec 30, 2013, 12:55 PM
Also, it's known that lower rarity weapons have higher extend values.

It's to be assumed that this is all balanced around +10 stats, not base stats.

UnLucky
Dec 30, 2013, 01:00 PM
Oh? So an ExLv.7 on a 3* would have higher base stats than an ExLv.7 6*?

I didn't catch any comparison they might have shown for that.

Ratazana
Dec 30, 2013, 01:30 PM
The wiki says that by extending you will be overwriting the weapon parameters. The extended weapon will be only a shell and stuff like attack will be determined by the extention alone.

7★ アダマンの杖+10 法撃力 311 → 896
8★ コンサイコン+10 法撃力 367 → 896

With the highest level you can extend any wand to 896 at +10 (a bit weaker than yede club) no matter what weapon you use. Rarity will affect how easy you can grind but the gains will be same.

gigawuts
Dec 30, 2013, 01:59 PM
That isn't what people are questioning, Rata. 7-9*s all share the same grind bonus: +75%.

What people are worried about is different rarity brackets. 1-3* weapons gain 50% at +10, 4-6*s gain 60%, and 10*s gain 90%.

With 7-9*s being 896 at +10 that makes their base stat 512 at +0, since 7-9* weapons gain +75% atk at +10 (896/1.75=512).

1-3*s don't get +75%, they get +50%. With the same base stats 1-3*s would be 768 at +10. Seeing the problem?

Zyrusticae
Dec 30, 2013, 02:20 PM
Hmmm, now I'm curious if the rarity grind bonus is overwritten as well. It'd make a kind of sense, but then they could just change the rarity as well to make that clear, so probably not.

Either way, I'm still gonna wield that extended Alva Katana no matter what.

Edit: You know what? I'm beginning to think that the rarity grind bonus doesn't even apply. Remember the Vita Sword at 987 S-Atk? I mean, if that's with a 1-3* grind bonus, then an extended 10* would become stronger than the strongest current 10*, and that goes against what they were saying this system should be used for.