PVP 4 vs 4 group battle

[alphanzer]

Ok i knew there is a several topic about an idea or a possibility of PvP for PSO2 already been posted in this forum.
I had an idea on how PvP at PSO2 should be implemented. It should be something like this (in my opinion, lol) :

PvP should be 4 vs 4 group battle
the first player should be either hunter or fighter
the second player should be either ranger or gunner
the third player should be either force or techer
and lastly the fourth player can be any class but it shouldnt be a class that already used by the former three players.

dead player wont be able to respawn or revived, they will be only watching their remaining teammate fighting.

optional :
- implementing friendly fire to avoid spamming AoE PAs like OE, messiah time, force tech
- disabling auto lock, yeah the class like gunner, ranger, force and techer might be forced to use TPS mode to perform better.
- forbidding player in the party to equipping same type of weapon (imagine if all people equipping agito or all class tmg :V)

in my imagination this system should be able to deliver fun n competitive pvp experience, then maybe sega will just need to reduce our damage output to something like 0.5% or maybe even smaller with some formula that will result bigger diviser the bigger damage is.
so i would like to ask, how do u guys think about this idea?
do you also think it could be fun or u think its going to be bad?
i knew that some of u guys think it would be crazy/stupid to implement pvp on pso2 n this game is not designed for pvp.
yeah lol i also wouldnt like to participate in crazy one on one PvP battle when im facing OP gunner with my fighter, i mean how can i with against that?

im also think maybe sega should prepare a dedicated server to avoid lag n better pvp experience

NB :
i have read some of pvp thread in this forum but maybe not all, so im sorry if someone already asked a similiar thing. also sorry for my bad english im not a native english speaker.

[Rakurai]

The amount of tweaking to the battle mechanics they'd have to do for direct PvP to be remotely functional would be absurd.

For starters, they'd need address stagger locking, since getting killed in this manner happens often enough as it is with enemies, but actual players could abuse the heck out of it, to the point where even with reduced damage, whoever lands the first hit would basically win. Targeting is also another issue, as while some classes would have a massive advantage over others with the ability to lock-on (Especially FO and TE, due to how long ranged some of their techs are, coupled with the fact that they can hit through walls), they'd be downright horrible without it, as trying to manually aim at targets as small as other players would be a huge pain with techs and PAs that don't have splash damage..

I honestly think the only sort of PvP that could actually work is the sort that doesn't actually involve players fighting each other, but instead racing to complete some manner of objective.

[yoshiblue]

PvP could work as a mode but it would have to be different from the game play we already have. Maybe unique PAs that only work in that mode and class exclusive skills to make classes have a sort of role. Then add some objective based modes so its not an all out slap feast.

[Maninbluejumpsuit]

The amount of tweaking to the battle mechanics they'd have to do for PvP to be remotely functional would be absurd.

/thread

[Lumpen Thingy]

It was shit in PSO and was shit in the PSP games so I'd rather have Sega tweak the current problems in the game instead of adding shit PVP to a game series that was never about PVP to begin with.

[landman]

C.A.R.D.

[Inazuma]

PSO had a battle mode with many different ways to play it. Some of them let you use your existing character; others would have you use predetermined characters. It was nice having that option. I played a decent amount of PSO battle mode, using existing characters, and I would regularly defeat players who were 80 levels higher than me. It was a bit clunky but overall it worked decently enough and I really enjoyed it.

One possible way to do PvP in PSO2 is to make it based on PvE, since that's what the game is "balanced" around. After separating into two teams, you would fight against the same enemies, and the team that defeats all of the enemies faster wins. You know how multiplayer works in puzzle games like Puyo Puyo, with both players having to clear the same puzzles at the same time? Think of it like that.

[Kondibon]

Been waiting for someone to bring this up again so I can point out that Mabinogi has a lot of the same balance problems as PSO2 and then link this (http://youtu.be/gPMX6l-U4XU)

realtalk:

I've said it before and I'll say it again, I have no problem with the idea of PvP in PSO2, I'd probably enjoy it, but I can't imagine it would be engaging or entertaining with the horrible class balance in place right now.



One possible way to do PvP in PSO2 is to make it based on PvE, since that's what the game is "balanced" around. After separating into two teams, you would fight against the same enemies, and the team that defeats all of the enemies faster wins. You know how multiplayer works in puzzle games like Puyo Puyo, with both players having to clear the same puzzles at the same time? Think of it like that.I like the intent behind this idea but instead of being a straight up DPS race maybe have it like a moba style game where each team has to defend towers, but instead of directly assaulting the towers they do something to summon mobs and bosses that do, kinda like the Mining Base Defense EQ.

[isCasted]

Here's a thing: PvP in this game wouldn't work, but if SEGA actually absolutely decided to make it they would notice all those issues with main game mechanics we are talking about. If they absolutely decide to make PvP, they can fix the game in process.

I know it's not going to happen

[gigawuts]

4 bravers playing a game of combat escape chicken

first to use their katana combat loses because the other side uses theirs and is invulnerable to the AOE shockwave.

even if you can just guard a combat finish the other team will position themselves around you so you can't turn around in time to JG each combat finish

[alphanzer]

Thank you for the feed back guys. hmm after i read all ur replies i became less confident with my idea lol.
but yeah maybe it wont as easy as that to implement pvp for this game.

but u know im thinking of something like pvp because i kinda bored with this PSO2 endgame. i already reached 65/65 on both of my character.
i also already got decent weapon n unit for all class, i wont say it the best but it definitely decent enough.
and then i found myself with nothing i want to do n ended up doing Matterboard or doing our daily duties from klotho lol.

i think this game need something new, new challenge for veteran player. something that very challenging maybe to the point its almost impossible.
i know sega do a good job for adding XQ n SH difficulty but i think it dont even enough at least for me.
yeah its kinda hard to do (solo lol) but it can be pretty easy if u do it with full party moreover if all member of ur party is experienced player that already reached level cap 65/65 n equipped with decent gear.

even with this upcoming crafting system.
im happy when i heard about this system, but i also confused at the same time.
ah nice its going to give me more things to do.
but wait whats the point of getting stronger, it just going to make things easier n spoil the fun.

the only thing that i think interesting n fun at the moment is mining base defense.
i have to admit it, its fun with all these ranking things. but its only EQ

[alphanzer]

4 bravers playing a game of combat escape chicken

first to use their katana combat loses because the other side uses theirs and is invulnerable to the AOE shockwave.

even if you can just guard a combat finish the other team will position themselves around you so you can't turn around in time to JG each combat finish

mmm havent u read my ideas?

the first player should be either hunter or fighter
the second player should be either ranger or gunner
the third player should be either force or techer
and lastly the fourth player can be any class but it shouldnt be a class that already used by the former three players.

so there wont be a 4 braver at the same team, it only going to be 1 braver at most on the team (the fourth player).

i also add this limitation as optional :.
- forbidding player in the party to equipping same type of weapon (imagine if all people equipping agito or all class tmg :V)

but yeah combat escape lol, that skill is like cheating. 20sec invincibility. even there is no pvp that skill is cheating for me.
but hey it isnt going that easy, that braver can be the priority to be killed by the opposition team.

n this one that also optional in my ideas :
- implementing friendly fire to avoid spamming AoE PAs like OE, messiah time, force tech

this should solve combat finish problem. friendly fire will avoid this kind of spamming n also arent we already used to avoid killing dragonkin at amduscia TA , so i think friendly fire system wont be a problem as long as the team coordination is good

[gigawuts]

Ah, I misread that as being a suggested structure rather than a limitation.

Still though, everything would be AOE flinch spam. Everything. Gibarta, Gigrants, Heel Stab, Elder Rebellion's AOE lift blast, Kanran, and Combat Finish would rule the mode.

What you can't 1shot you need to flinchspam. It's the unfortunate nature of this game.

[Emp]

Forget this. Im not buying into this if you say no auto lock.

Idc what pvp form you want, its gotta be at least 100% fair, NO MATTER WHAT. I played quite a bit of pvp in Phantasy star portable 2 on the psp, so I think I can make a quite bit of good rules. OP rules are kinda vague.

At the start of the battle,

-Maps may be as big as the Tower defense map or small as Elder Falz stage. Each Party leader chooses 2 maps and the game randomly picks one out of the 4 chosen.

-You are lvl 1, and the cap lvl is 10. Exp gained from kills is very low. You may acquire additional exp from completing certain codes that may appear on the map. For example, "Protect the Crystal" code, where only one crystal appears/spawns. You have to protect it for 30 seconds.

-You cannot use subclasses. Subclasses may give others an advantage in the PvP fight.

-You have skill trees that you may fill out. They will look different because the skills will require less SP to unlocks skills. % dmg/Flat dmg for each skill have been modified/lowered to an extent. Although you can only level up to level 10, there may be an occasion that you are granted 1 SP for completing a code.

-You are forced to use lvl 1 gear, weapons and units. You are given level 1 sub units, but you may find stronger units or subunits from boxes on the map.

-You are given 1 of each wep that your type can equip. For example, HU would have a Gs, sword and partizan. You may find stronger weapons and units, but they only go up to 3*. You cannot sell the extra weapons you find. Selling leads to massive amounts of cash, leading to just ridiculous amounts of mates.
*On maps that are very small, you may purchase new and stronger weapons and units from a shop console after you revive from death. Smaller maps are usually so small that its a CAGE MATCH of slaughter.

-You are given lvl 1 PAs and tech, but you can find lvl 1-5 pas from boxes scattered around the map. Rare PAs are not given at the start and they cannot be found. Would you like a GU to heel stab the person in front then shoot the rest of you down? lol And above all, ZONDEEL IS BANNED.


-You are given 1000 meseta. You can pick up additional meseta from boxes to buy monomates from console.

-Console usually sells monomates, shifta/deband, traps, and atomizers. *See rule about units for smaller maps in other cases*

-Teammates cannot revive you. You are automatically revived at your team base. Dead people are indicated by a big purple dot on the map, only seen if you expand your map.

-Each player kill or code completion grants your team "points". Just like in Tower Defense, you use these "points" to buy "defenses" or heal your base. "Defenses" are bombs, those explodey traps that immobilize you, and those gun turrets that are find in the Amduscia Time Attack Quest.

-Each player is assigned a Rank (A through F, F being the lowest, ya you're a noob). You may rise or fall in rank based on a Win/Lose ratio. Losing a 1-2 battles, wont hurt much at all. You will lose a rank with 3 or more losses.

Thats about it I think. Status effects may or may not occur, its all based on whether or not you find a weapon with a status affix. This also gives Force and Techer a bigger role in the match. Force and techer has status effect skills and are great at inducing such things on their targets.

[Emp]

Oh ya, ONE MORE THING. GU is not OP in this at all. Their JA SROLL only provides 50% more dmg when maxed.

[Sienna]

Foei2win

[gigawuts]

Oh ya, ONE MORE THING. GU is not OP in this at all. Their JA SROLL only provides 50% more dmg when maxed.

You are delusional.

[Emp]

You are delusional.

No, just basically taking away what made GU so great since ep 2 release.:-)

[gigawuts]

That doesn't take away what makes GU so ridiculously OP. The ability to cancel every attack at almost any point with an iframe-loaded backflip, spam attacks at range, and be immune to shield knockback with heavy hitting melee moves is what makes it so OP. 2x damage is just icing on the cake.

"Why are you buying a diet coke with your five cheeseburgers?"
"Oh I'm on a diet."

[Emp]

That doesn't take away what makes GU so ridiculously OP. The ability to cancel every attack at almost any point with an iframe-loaded backflip, spam attacks at range, and be immune to shield knockback with heavy hitting melee moves is what makes it so OP. 2x damage is just icing on the cake.

"Why are you buying a diet coke with your five cheeseburgers?"
"Oh I'm on a diet."

I agree with the shield knockback but GU's gotta alot of things to worry about. With subclasses out of the equation, GU cant tank. It lose Fury, ja bonuses. I would only worry about the invul frames. If a force or techer carefully times their shit and the team takes out the GU first, the enemy is gonna fold real quick.

EDIT: Im more worried about Melee techer. One slam of the wand, BAM! You're prolly dead.

[alphanzer]

Forget this. Im not buying into this if you say no auto lock.


lol, thats why add this rule as optional, im also not confident bout this one.
but hey i know it going to be hard n annoying without auto lock, but it will be for the both team so it could be fun.

n im forgot to say this, in my idea/rule dead player wont be able to respawn or revived, they will be only watching their remaining teammate fighting.. thats why i said OP class will be priority to be killed, no matter what class is that. we all have our opinion about what class that will be OP class if there is a pvp, but the truth is we wont know unless we try. lol :-D

[Emp]

lol, thats why add this rule as optional, im also not confident bout this one.
but hey i know it going to be hard n annoying without auto lock, but it will be for the both team so it could be fun.

n im forgot to say this, in my idea/rule dead player wont be able to respawn or revived, they will be only watching their remaining teammate fighting.. thats why i said OP class will be priority to be killed, no matter what class is that. we all have our opinion about what class that will be OP class if there is a pvp, but the truth is we wont know unless we try. lol :-D

OK we can implement a mode where reviving is disabled. But it would be boring waiting for the match to finish.

Force would be most op. First Person Shooter and Foie grazing people to death.

[pkemr4]

>client side game
>pvp
>client side game
>SEGA

[alphanzer]

OK we can implement a mode where reviving is disabled. But it would be boring waiting for the match to finish.

Force would be most op. First Person Shooter and Foie grazing people to death.

I dont think it would be that boring to watch our teammate fighting in our place, maybe the camera view after we died should be modified so we can watch the match better. and you still can chat to support or says something to ur teammate/ other ppl. Waiting people that afk is much more boring, lol.

[SakoHaruo]

PvE is the only thing you'll see added to PSO2 in the future. wait I almost forgot.... no one cares about Interrupt Rankings so we won't even get more competitive PvE. This game is meant for one thing only.. Dress Up Online. If you want the community to hate you forever try to change something. people don't like change o3o

[Dark Priest]

PvE is the only thing you'll see added to PSO2 in the future. wait I almost forgot.... no one cares about Interrupt Rankings so we won't even get more competitive PvE. This game is meant for one thing only.. Dress Up Online. If you want the community to hate you forever try to change something. people don't like change o3o

i'll have to admit that this game is pretty much dress up, PVP won' work well, i was heavly into PVP in old PSO and it was messy enough. i don't see it doing well in this, as i am sure every single person would be braver.

[oratank]

how about send support partner to fight like pokemon

[Cyron Tanryoku]

Forces would have a major advantage
They actually use their skills

[Grady219]

I think pvp could work in this. You just have to think outside the box on this.

Make a capture the flag mode. First to 10 points wins. 1 neutral flag that would be in the center of the arena and 1 team flag at each base. Neutral flags are worth 1 point and team flags are worth 2 or 3.
Since 12 people seems to be the limit for MPA's, make it 6v6. You are allowed to choose 1 of the 7 classes, but no subclass. Each class has an entirely new skill tree set up to be balanced(nothing like braver invulnerability). Only weapons and units up to the 6 star ranking can be used in this mode. Crafted weapons can be used.
Winning games will give you battle points which you can either use to give experience towards your pvp skill trees or used at a new store to buy high level PvE gear.

[alphanzer]

I think pvp could work in this. You just have to think outside the box on this.

Make a capture the flag mode. First to 10 points wins. 1 neutral flag that would be in the center of the arena and 1 team flag at each base. Neutral flags are worth 1 point and team flags are worth 2 or 3.
Since 12 people seems to be the limit for MPA's, make it 6v6. You are allowed to choose 1 of the 7 classes, but no subclass. Each class has an entirely new skill tree set up to be balanced(nothing like braver invulnerability). Only weapons and units up to the 6 star ranking can be used in this mode. Crafted weapons can be used.
Winning games will give you battle points which you can either use to give experience towards your pvp skill trees or used at a new store to buy high level PvE gear.

nice ur idea is interesting, i like how u suggest flag battle n 6 vs 6. but i think 3 teams battle royal with 4 players each party could be also interesting n that way sega doesnt need to break 4 player limit for a party.
yeah flag battle could be very interesting, i like how they way the players will steal a flags, how the team will defend their flag, how the opposition team will target the player that stole their and how the team protect their teammate that has stole opposition team's flag.

hmm but one thing, this kind of flag mode will lead to TD/knuckle dash spam, with assault buster maybe. Flag capture game is heavily relied on protecting the base (with kind of trap usually), chase n kill opposition player that stole our flag and finally run away safely to our base. either way its need a lot of running, n it would be sucks if we cant chase our enemies so both team will need a player that can run fast. well its not a big problem but its definitely a thing to consider.

[isCasted]

I think CTF would work because CTF works with everything.


hmm but one thing, this kind of flag mode will lead to TD/knuckle dash spam, with assault buster maybe. Flag capture game is heavily relied on protecting the base (with kind of trap usually), chase n kill opposition player that stole our flag and finally run away safely to our base. either way its need a lot of running, n it would be sucks if we cant chase our enemies so both team will need a player that can run fast. well its not a big problem but its definitely a thing to consider.

It's not going to be much different from Tower Defense in this case.

[yoshiblue]

Turn off dashing and increase the recovery time of all movement PAs. But increase damage I guess.

[Lostbob117]

They gave us pvp already...









Photon Chairs.

[yoshiblue]

Rares for winning the Photon Grand Prix. A shame they are easy to use now.

[FacelessRed]

PVP is an idea they are experimenting with, but not in terms of direct combat, at least not yet.

Mining base is an example. Competitive pve for the greater good. But mining base highlights the disgusting class imbalance. (though as a hunter I managed to make rank 1 quite a lot)

There are plenty of non-class based combat options PSO can go that can lead to a pvp community. Turret type things, heck I'm sure they could even do races, or emulators and have arcade minigames for score. But they aren't thinking far enough outside the box just yet.

Be glad PSO2 isn't PSO2: Flavours of WOW . Every MMO has been a WOW copycat and its steeped the MMO gaming world in feces.