Crafted Weapon Damage Comparison (numbers)

[Lamiaaaa]

I dunno if anyone's done it yet or if it's been posted, forgive me if it's been covered

I've been doing the math for weapon damage by checking the recipe list at the visiphone

the max Extend level for each rarity is as follows:
1~3-star Lv.11
4~6-star Lv.8
7~9-star Lv.5
10-star Lv.4

I checked the attack rating and applied the grind bonus for each rarity at max Extend for just three weapon types, and I saw a pattern

Swords
673 +50% = 1009.5
631 +60% = 1009.6
577 +75% = 1009.75
531 +90% = 1008.9

Rifles
596 +50% = 894
559 +60% = 894.4
511 +75% = 894.25
471 +90% = 894.9

Mechguns
624 +50% = 936
585 +60% = 936
535 +75% = 936.25
492 +90% = 934.8

as you can see, it's all balanced in the end so long as you can max its Extend level

overall, crafted weapon damage is still on par with and outdone by higher-tier 10-star rares, but it's still pretty handy I'd say

a good reason to not use crafting is for potentials, abilities, and of course appearance... or if you already have something stronger

make sure to check the numbers before modifying your 10-stars especially

[NoiseHERO]

TL;DR don't craft anything that'll end up weaker than the highest extend stat for that rarity range.

But I didn't know they ALL capped out to the same number...

I'm still sticking with my 1* katana. <_<;

[deahamlet]

Trixie, doing magic as usual!~

So, wait, if I have a 10* weapon, should I craft it? I don't... understand D:

If you have a decent amount of DEX, either from mag or class tree, then crafting a lower tier 10* with a great latent may be a good idea. If you have minimal dex from those resources OR your 10* is already one of the top 5, don't craft. If you are willing to give up the 25% dex bonus on rares in order to either:
1. Get higher atk damage (from a lower powered 10*) because of latent or look or whatever other reason.
2. Make a particular weapon multi-class

Go for it. I would not suggest crafting a top 5 10* for multi-classing.

SEGA is bringing higher tier recipes in the next crafting update, I think it said Spring.

[jooozek]

i have no idea if it will be weaker but i can tell you that if you were to bring it to max extension (i.e. lv4) it would cost you roughly 1.3M (that's how much the crafting material that is used in that last level extension costs currently) per attempt of trying to make it equipable by some class (the base chance for making a weapon all-class equipable by some other classes is 0.2% :lol:)

[Maninbluejumpsuit]

TL;DR don't craft anything that'll end up weaker than the highest extend stat for that rarity range.

But I didn't know they ALL capped out to the same number...

I'm still sticking with my 1* katana. <_<;

The base stats on each rarity range's max extended levels were on bumped, and you coulda've ran the grinding multipliers on them.

I came here expecting even more proof of the dex modifier being undone after crafting, though...

[Shinamori]

I like the crafting system. I honestly don't care to craft 10* weapons/units as you can't sell them once you craft them.

[WildarmsRE5]

i have no idea if it will be weaker but i can tell you that if you were to bring it to max extension (i.e. lv4) it would cost you roughly 1.3M (that's how much the crafting material that is used in that last level extension costs currently) per attempt of trying to make it equipable by some class (the base chance for making a weapon all-class equipable by some other classes is 0.2% :lol:)my chance to make Multi-Class weapons is 1% ._. (It's something)

Cal-whatever is a High End Katana, Crafting that would make it weaker. . .

[Edson Drake]

I came here expecting even more proof of the dex modifier being undone after crafting, though...

Same here. I'm am actually holding off crafing some low-tier 10* for that very same fear.

[NoiseHERO]

The base stats on each rarity range's max extended levels were on bumped, and you coulda've ran the grinding multipliers on them.

ain'-nobody got time fuhdat.

[Z-0]

It was posted on Sakai's blog today that the huge damage variance on crafted weapons is intentional.


■クラフトで「武装エクステンド」した武器のダメージの振れ幅について

まず『PSO2』では、攻撃した際のダメージに「振れ幅」が存在しますが、この振れ幅の上限は「最大攻撃力 」、下限は「最小攻撃力」という値で管理されています。

「最大攻撃力」というのは、「アイテム詳細」ウィンドウなどで確認できる「打撃力」「射撃力」「法撃力」の 値となります。（一般的に、攻撃力と呼ばれているものです）

一方、「最小攻撃力」は、画面上では確認できないパラメーターです。
基本的には等しく「固定値」が入っていますが、多くのレアリティ★７以上の武器については特殊なパラメータ ーとして、「最大攻撃力の９０％」程度の値を設定しています。

つまり、★７以上の武器で戦う場合のダメージの振れ幅は、最大攻撃力（１００％）～最小攻撃力（９０％）程 度の範囲になります。

クラフトで「武装エクステンド」すると、基本性能がレシピの値に画一化されるため、装備品に個別に設定され ている特殊なパラメーターが失われてしまうというのは先日のブログでご説明したとおりですが、多くの★７以 上の武器に設定している最小攻撃力はこの特殊なパラメーターにあたるため、上記の「固定値」に書き換えられ ています。

そのため、武装エクステンドすることで多くの★７以上の武器は、武装エクステンド前よりもダメージの振れ幅 が大きくなる、ということになります。

これについて「仕様なのか、不具合なのか」というご質問を多数いただいておりますが、不具合ではなく、もと もと強い武器（レアリティ★１０の上位～★１２など）の価値を維持するための、意図した仕様で す。

「最小攻撃力」については画面にも表示されておらず、また今まで仕組みも非公開となっていましたので、事前 に公表した情報の中で触れることが困難だったのですが、今回多数のご指摘をいただいたことで、やはり事前に ご説明するべきだったと反省しております。


クラフトについては、今後のアップデートで、さらに上位のレシピの配信によりエクステンドレベルの上限解放 が行われる予定です。現状で上限までエクステンドレベルを上げても武装エクステンド前より平均ダメージが低 い武器も、今後さらに強くすることができますので、お待ちいただければと思います。

なお、「カスタマイズしたテクニック」をリセットするアイテムについては今後配信する予定ですが、武装エク ステンドした武器についても、リセットできる方法を検討しています。


※現状で武装エクステンド済み武器のダメージの振れ幅を抑えたい場合は、「技量」のパラメーターを上げる（ クラスレベルやスキルツリー、マグなどで）ことで振れ幅を小さくすることができます。また、「クリティカル 」の発生で最大ダメージを与えることができますので、「クリティカル」系のスキルレベルを上げることでもダ メージの平均値を上げることができます。

To sum it up, all weapons have a minimum and maximum damage value. The value you see on screen when looking at a weapon's parameters is its maximum damage value. The minimum is hidden, but for 7★ or higher rarity weapons, the minimum damage value is about 90% of the maximum attack value, resulting in little variance.

However, each crafting recipe overwrites both values of attack. While not disclosed, the minimum damage value on crafting recipes is lower than that of 7★+ weapons.

This feature is intentional. It is not a bug and will not be "fixed", so that high tier 10*s and 11/12* items retain their original value and are not overshadowed by the crafting system.

If you want to avoid this, increase the ability stat, or spec into crit skills.

[NoiseHERO]

Crafted stuff not beneficial if you care about min/maxing more than looks, got it.

[Emp]

So is crafting yas still worth it even tho you lose that 25 dex?

[jooozek]

So is crafting yas still worth it even tho you lose that 25 dex?

just craft the 2k one, they end up with the same penalty and same r-atk anyway

[Emp]

just craft the 2k one, they end up with the same penalty and same r-atk anyway

penalty? 2k one loses dex too?

[Z-0]

Everything 7*+ gets a penalty.

[Emp]

Everything 7*+ gets a penalty.

Oh. So you wont be any stronger with crafted 2k instead I guess.

[pkemr4]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ycwpjPSQVHE"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ycwpjPSQVHE

dont fuck with crafting at all. unless you wanna desync disc's for profit.

[jooozek]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ycwpjPSQVHE

dont fuck with crafting at all. unless you wanna desync disc's for profit.

oh god, that's as bad as red weapons
i get the feeling that stacking dex won't change much

[gigawuts]

Yeah honestly this is for people who like the look of nacht weapons, 1-3*s, and multiclass latent MKBs.

[HIT0SHI]

What is MKBs?

[NoiseHERO]

What is MKBs?

munkey king candybars?

(the red bo staff)

[HIT0SHI]

munkey king candybars?

(the red bo staff)

Then it would be "MKCBs" not "MKBs" :wacko:

But thanks for the reply.

[Saffran]

Ahahahahahahahaha...
And people fuss over that? Oh boy...
So basically crafting allows you to play the latest content without actually looking for weapons. I guess it's making the game just the extra mile easier.

[jooozek]

Ahahahahahahahaha...
And people fuss over that? Oh boy...
So basically crafting allows you to play the latest content without actually looking for weapons. I guess it's making the game just the extra mile easier.

it's not as funny as you believe that it is when you find out how many rares you'd need to crack down to get the needed materials

[Saffran]

You're missing my point.
A 5% overall dps drop is nothing. I really don't understand the outcry.
Only specific rare materials are costly, the rest is in the NPC shop...

[jooozek]

an overall 5% drop means much more in weapon terms especially with double sabers which are relatively low attack weapons: it would be much more visible if they tested, let's say, knuckles with backhand smash

[Zyrusticae]

I'm still sticking with my 1* katana. <_<;
https://q9l9ra.blu.livefilestore.com/y2p1YVxk3706h2VyAV5n06pZYH1AqJydfou0ivwnptds-oJt2MndJxemzfhyqJTBFw-3p833Ec_IAzMrbOn9XXF7es9dIj7vsA9NesPJDe20AM/srRKKFa.gif?psid=1

[Maninbluejumpsuit]

I'm sorry, I still don't understand why 10*s will get weaker when extended - This doesn't seem right.

Weaker ones may get higher atk values, but every rare weapon after being extended gets the red weapon experience; no dex modifier.


If your highs don't get much higher with the extra attack, while your lows get lower with the loss of dex, you deal less damage on average.

[GreenArcher]

I'm sorry, I still don't understand why 10*s will get weaker when extended - This doesn't seem right.

It may change in the future. Currently all extends come out to the same attack at max extend level but different ranks have different extend levels (11, 8, 5, 4?). So maybe eventually all ranks will be able to extend to level 11 or something? Who knows.

[Walkure]

an overall 5% drop means much more in weapon terms especially with double sabers which are relatively low attack weapons: it would be much more visible if they tested, let's say, knuckles with backhand smashA 5% drop in damage is a 5% drop in damage. The main difference between weapon types is that the weapon's unaffixed power is higher in almost any weapon type than a double saber. Thus, the benefit of insta-capped DEX is more apparent.


[spoiler-box]
For uncapped DEX:http://i.imgur.com/hJUVWWv.png
Including weapon element is adding in M/5*(W*E), where E is the % element. Or adding W to the cluster of addition/subtraction there if the element is 50%.

So, for a rockbear with ~258 SDEF, ~300 DEX, with a player having 415 DEX and a player having ~1200 SATK without weapon attack factored in (reasonable with shifta drink which should always be on). I don't know extended knuckle weapon attack, but I'll just assume 960 or so.

You'll have [2(1200+960)-2(258 )+2(415-300)]*M/10=403.4*M for average damage with an extended weapon.

For a DEX capped weapon, like a 10*, average damage in the same situation could be calculated with:

M/5*(A-5%*W+50%W-D)

This is just subtracting 5% of the weapon's attack for the maximum damage calculation. Equivalent to the midpoint between minimum and maximum, which for a DEX capped weapon, minimum basically just reduces W by 10%.

Which, let's just compare to discade (1048 for W)

M/5*((1200+1048 )+45%(1048 )-(258 ))=492.32*M

So, assuming M is constant, a 50-Element Discade would beat a knuckle with 960 SATK and no DEX bonus on average by about 22%. That's due to both a hefty SATK bonus on the weapon, double-dipped with element bonus, and auto-capped DEX, however. And this is kinda hasty math so I could've made a simple error here or there.
[/spoiler-box]

I'm sorry, I still don't understand why 10*s will get weaker when extended - This doesn't seem right.
Losing the DEX bonus. Z-0 mentioned earlier in the thread that minimum damage basically gets capped with a rare weapon. That's consistent with my testing in trying to quantify the DEX bonus on a weapon, since I'm unable to uncap it. This makes the difference not only just up to 100 or so attack for a strong weapon, but effectively losing out on hundreds of free DEX.

[gigawuts]

The static minimum damage value explains a lot. I'm surprised it took a dev blog explanation to determine that, normally the JPs are more on the ball than that.

[Walkure]

There was a dev blog explaining it?


Well, now I don't have to worry about recording damage on my next L50 in SH in order to absolutely confirm that.

[UnLucky]

You're missing my point.
A 5% overall dps drop is nothing. I really don't understand the outcry.
Only specific rare materials are costly, the rest is in the NPC shop...

5% on top of the stat difference between a crafted weapon and the strongest available, since the point of the video was to compare similar displayed stats.

Like compared to a Langritter you lose another 54 S-Atk (or 81 including the element).

It all adds up, but if you're okay with the loss then craft away. It's kind of what it's for.

[gigawuts]

There was a dev blog explaining it?


Well, now I don't have to worry about recording damage on my next L50 in SH in order to absolutely confirm that.

Isn't that what everyone is talking about? People are talking about a blog Sakai posted explaining this shit and why everyone should just calm down because it's their own stupid fault for extending their weapons.

[Walkure]

I had a reading comprehension fail and didn't realize Z-0's post was the devblog post. \o/

[Saffran]

Walkure > Flawed example. Take the exact same numbers in both cases and run your equation again. The 5% I'm refering to are the end numbers.

What I find amiss in the video is that his/her minimum damage is 97%. That clearly is the effect of the dex cap. So a rare weapon (outside of Reds) will cap the minimum at 90% and dex does the rest, OK.
If it means that my back hand smash will kill in one hit for 45k instead of in one hit for 48k, I'm OK with that. Really I am.
If the variance because of the roughly 150dex missing is more in the 20% range, THEN I might feel uneasy against a boss or in an unexpected situation. Otherwise, I see no reason to care.

[Tenlade]

This seems so backwards. If the point of crafting is making weapons you want to use equal or at least comparable to decent rares, why would you then immediately weaken them with this?

For a game about playing with and helping other players in mpas, and building more damage (with 3/4th of all skills doing nothing BUT raising damage) releasing a mechanic that sacrifices damage for personal vanity seems completely stupid. Especially when said mechanic requires more money and time then just getting the AQ rares.

[UnLucky]

Well the crafted weapon's minimum damage in the video is 87%, compared to the 10*'s 97%.

So even though the average damage is only 5% lower, the minimum is 10%, which can be significant at times.

[jooozek]

i didn't compare with any other weapon just showing the variation on the thing i've extended myself using satelitte aimdead approach from sroll ja (and as you can see i've got some dex added, sported lucky rise set while testing) - http://imgur.com/a/g30MJ

[Walkure]

The base attack inequality stacked ontop of the DEX inequality is the real problem, though. You're losing both a measurable but relatively amount of SATK, and, effectively, a large amount of DEX.

But okay, fine, let's say that the discade is only +9, so it's at 966 SATK, which I'll round to 960. Equal SATK comparison.

M/5*((1200+960 )+45%(960 )-(258 ))=466.8*M

So it's only a 15.59% increase in average damage to use a +9 Discade over that 960 extended weapon. Assuming modifiers are constant between the two, which, I'm not sure if any potentials were added for those 1-6* weapons but Discade has a pretty decent potential for +6% damage during Brave Stance.

[Skye-Fox713]

I dunno if anyone's done it yet or if it's been posted, forgive me if it's been covered

I've been doing the math for weapon damage by checking the recipe list at the visiphone

the max Extend level for each rarity is as follows:
1~3-star Lv.11
4~6-star Lv.8
7~9-star Lv.5
10-star Lv.4

I checked the attack rating and applied the grind bonus for each rarity at max Extend for just three weapon types, and I saw a pattern

Swords
673 +50% = 1009.5
631 +60% = 1009.6
577 +75% = 1009.75
531 +90% = 1008.9

Rifles
596 +50% = 894
559 +60% = 894.4
511 +75% = 894.25
471 +90% = 894.9

Mechguns
624 +50% = 936
585 +60% = 936
535 +75% = 936.25
492 +90% = 934.8

as you can see, it's all balanced in the end so long as you can max its Extend level

overall, crafted weapon damage is still on par with and outdone by higher-tier 10-star rares, but it's still pretty handy I'd say

a good reason to not use crafting is for potentials, abilities, and of course appearance... or if you already have something stronger

make sure to check the numbers before modifying your 10-stars especially

Interesting, Anyone know or have a similar chart for Gunslashes?

[UnLucky]

From Bumped:
　　　　　Sw　WL　Pz　　TD　Dbl.S　Knu　G.Sl　Kat
1~3★　　673　580　549　440　471　644　521　570
4~6★　　631　544　515　413　441　604　489　534
7~9★　　577　497　471　377　404　552　447　489
10★ 　　 531　458　434　348　372　509　412　450

At +10:
　　　　　Sw　　WL　Pz　 TD　Dbl.S　Knu　G.Sl　Kat
1~3★　　1009　870　823　660　706　966　781　855
4~6★　　1009　870　824　660　705　966　782　854
7~9★　　1009　869　824　659　707　966　782　855
10★ 　　 1008　870　824　661　706　967　782　855

[NoiseHERO]

You can literally check all that stuff in the visiphone and crafting menu by the way.

It tells you all the recipes and what stats will go up to what at what level.

(I was just too dumb to remember higher level weapons had higher grind %'s which is how everything ends up at same atk.)

[Alma]

that removed dex bonuses if you extend a *10 weapon really do cripple the average dmg output one can do, especially if one doesn't have dex stat invested...

2 green dual gaze with almost identical T atk power
1 is vanilla and 1 is extended to lv4 ex
mag is 175 pure T atk mag
female newman

the average damage with lv16 sa-zan for both weapon:

vanilla
[SPOILER-BOX]http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7446/12000161316_44876acd91_b.jpg
http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2888/11999677234_c0dcc9636c_b.jpg
[/SPOILER-BOX]

extended
[SPOILER-BOX]http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3717/12000177086_0788afaa54_b.jpg
http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5529/11999629713_2e823e9d89_b.jpg[/SPOILER-BOX]

:-?

[SakoHaruo]

^ OUCH

Yeah, I'm just going to dsync and sell everything. this is good for freemium players or crafting a par of all classes to level your sub class though.

[jooozek]

what's truly pathetic is that even if you add dex, that doesn't change much :lol:

[Walkure]

Not true, given you're a Braver Mag-build Braver, using customizations, then you can have enough DEX to cap even without rare weapon bonuses!

Since the Katana has ~855 SATK, and Bow has 1010 RATK, you'd need 385 and 455 more DEX than the enemy to hit cap.

A Cast BR/HU would have 614 DEX. Rockbear has 300DEX, and Oodans seem to have about 275 (using data from that video). So, you'd need an extra 71 DEX on katana, and 141 on Bow from affixes to cover the gap. Slap on Ability III on all equipment, then put cougar soul on your units. In addition, put arm IV on your bow.

So, hybrid bravers can have all the style with only moderate losses!

[cheapgunner]

I need to know. Can you recraft the same weapon over and over or should you start crafting fodders to up the extend lvl a bit before your main wep of choice?

[nagasee]

so if losing minimum damage is the downside to crafting weapons, what is the downside to crafting units?

[jooozek]

Not true, given you're a Braver Mag-build Braver, using customizations, then you can have enough DEX to cap even without rare weapon bonuses!

Since the Katana has ~855 SATK, and Bow has 1010 RATK, you'd need 385 and 455 more DEX than the enemy to hit cap.

A Cast BR/HU would have 614 DEX. Rockbear has 300DEX, and Oodans seem to have about 275 (using data from that video). So, you'd need an extra 71 DEX on katana, and 141 on Bow from affixes to cover the gap. Slap on Ability III on all equipment, then put cougar soul on your units. In addition, put arm IV on your bow.

So, hybrid bravers can have all the style with only moderate losses!

i've yet to see someone with extended weapons and having sufficient dex working properly in some form of proof and not just a concept, theorycrafting doesn't really do it for me: i've put 90 dex and nothing changed, a halfassed weapon at max extend level was still halfassed

[Ceresa]

i've yet to see someone with extended weapons and having sufficient dex working properly in some form of proof and not just a concept, theorycrafting doesn't really do it for me: i've put 90 dex and nothing changed, a halfassed weapon at max extend level was still halfassed

This has been my experience as well.

Crafted Gekitsunaata Assault Buster with 1958 atk with no units was doing 10.1k ~ 12.2k

Add 90 dex from 3 trashunits with Arm3 was doing 10.3k ~ 12.2k

Against SH Udans in free forest btw. Base dex was 423.

Now I didn't get some 100 hits per sample to find the perfect minimum value because I can't be assed (stopped at like 20), but that is some seriously underwhelming results, especially when adding the 315 atk from my proper units gets my damage up to 12k ~ 14k making atk still a clear winner in average damage.

[UnLucky]

I'd imagine minimum damage is less of a problem for Br/Hu, not just due to higher Dex, but because Katana Gear gives critrate out the ass.

And why even bother with Dex affixes (other than Ability III)? Go pure Atk for the same boost to your average damage. As if gimping your damage is a sufficient fallback for gimping your damage.

[Geistritter]

I need to know. Can you recraft the same weapon over and over or should you start crafting fodders to up the extend lvl a bit before your main wep of choice?

Depends on what you mean by "recraft", but in either event the answer is probably "yes".

What you do with other weapons has absolutely nothing to do with the Extend level of the weapon you're working on or plan to work on, which is what I think you were getting at. You can craft any weapon to that group's (1-3, 4-6, 7-9, or 10 stars) Extend level limit, whether it's the first weapon you Extend or your one thousandth.

You can also Extend a weapon at its current level as many times as you want in an effort to get a Great Success and the passive benefits it gives. You lose those benefits if you ever Extend it again, however, and will have to get another Great Success that gives them to retrieve the effects.

Outside of that, no idea what you're asking.

[Walkure]

i've yet to see someone with extended weapons and having sufficient dex working properly in some form of proof and not just a concept, theorycrafting doesn't really do it for me: i've put 90 dex and nothing changed, a halfassed weapon at max extend level was still halfassedBecause you need a *lot* more than anyone's willing to get to actually achieve that, especially when just equipping a good weapon gives you capped minimum damage for free.


I'd imagine minimum damage is less of a problem for Br/Hu, not just due to higher Dex, but because Katana Gear gives critrate out the ass.

And why even bother with Dex affixes (other than Ability III)? Go pure Atk for the same boost to your average damage. As if gimping your damage is a sufficient fallback for gimping your damage.
Nah man, just get it on top of your current affixes. Who needs meseta when you got style?

(At the very least, cougar gives +15 to both RATK and SATK so it isn't a total loss if you're using both.)

[Zorafim]

https://q9l9ra.blu.livefilestore.com/y2p1YVxk3706h2VyAV5n06pZYH1AqJydfou0ivwnptds-oJt2MndJxemzfhyqJTBFw-3p833Ec_IAzMrbOn9XXF7es9dIj7vsA9NesPJDe20AM/srRKKFa.gif?psid=1

This post (including the lost quote) is what I got out of this thread.

[Geistritter]

I'd imagine minimum damage is less of a problem for Br/Hu, not just due to higher Dex, but because Katana Gear gives critrate out the ass.

And why even bother with Dex affixes (other than Ability III)? Go pure Atk for the same boost to your average damage. As if gimping your damage is a sufficient fallback for gimping your damage.

Katana Gear itself doesn't give critical hits; you have to get a counter at max gear first and be under the aura effect, and you're not going to have that for the majority of the time you play, more than likely. Braver/Hunters do get slightly boosted Critical rates than most people solely from minimum Fury Critical and Average/Weak Stance Critical, though, I guess.

Bravers really don't have higher Dex than anyone else, either. 5 more than everyone else without Dex Up, and 15 more if you invest in it solely to unlock skills. A Ranger that does the same will have more, and it still isn't much more than anyone else. Of course, there's arguably a point for some people to actually take Rare Mastery Braver now.

The exception is if one went full Dex for their mag, and then that's barely scraping the Dex floor Walkure outlined in another topic.

In other words, it's still a problem for most Bravers, and speaking as one with a 125/50 Mag, the variance is still quite potent and consistent when using an Extended rare.

[cheapgunner]

Depends on what you mean by "recraft", but in either event the answer is probably "yes".

What you do with other weapons has absolutely nothing to do with the Extend level of the weapon you're working on or plan to work on, which is what I think you were getting at. You can craft any weapon to that group's (1-3, 4-6, 7-9, or 10 stars) Extend level limit, whether it's the first weapon you Extend or your one thousandth.

You can also Extend a weapon at its current level as many times as you want in an effort to get a Great Success and the passive benefits it gives. You lose those benefits if you ever Extend it again, however, and will have to get another Great Success that gives them to retrieve the effects.

Outside of that, no idea what you're asking.

I mean, if I plan to extend a firearms, can I re-extend it again and again to increase its extend level and get a better success for it.

[Geistritter]

Then yes, as outlined above.

[Sanguine2009]

im not sure why this is such a big deal, yes you are noticeable weaker but sega said before the update came out that crafted weapons were not going to be the new strongest weapons. think of this as a style thing or the equivalent of the welfare AQ stuff and its not so bad.

either way in a full 12 person mpa things die so fast it barely matters anyway (solo or small parties is another matter though)

[UnLucky]

Nah man, just get it on top of your current affixes. Who needs meseta when you got style?
Oh of course, but it could also go on top of the affixes on uncrafted gear as well, along with a better Soul.


Katana Gear itself doesn't give critical hits; you have to get a counter at max gear first and be under the aura effect, and you're not going to have that for the majority of the time you play, more than likely. Braver/Hunters do get slightly boosted Critical rates than most people solely from minimum Fury Critical and Average/Weak Stance Critical, though, I guess.
Well any real Braver is always on purple, didn't you know?

[Aine]

lol extend weapons
[spoiler-box]http://i.imgur.com/g6SikYm.png[/spoiler-box]

note that the foiarain is only element 30

[Arksenth]

Probably means the new go-to mag build is like 125 Attack/50 DEX instead of 175 Attack if you intend on using Extend Codes. Otherwise, you can probably safely ignore them.

[Z-0]

It's already been discussed that any amount of DEX will do little amount to the damage variance.

Even if variance was large, you would be better with attack anyway, by moving both the minimum and maximum attack values up rather than just the minimum.

[TaigaUC]

It's already been discussed that any amount of DEX will do little amount to the damage variance.

Even if variance was large, you would be better with attack anyway, by moving both the minimum and maximum attack values up rather than just the minimum.

B... but Sakai specifically said we should up it to balance our Extend weapons!

Because he probably doesn't even know how his own game works.

[Walkure]

It's already been discussed that any amount of DEX will do little amount to the damage variance.

Even if variance was large, you would be better with attack anyway, by moving both the minimum and maximum attack values up rather than just the minimum.
DEX affects minimum damage twice as much as ATK affects both minimum and maximum damage, so it's actually relatively even.

You'd be best off by just stacking attack and using a rare to have minimum damage automatically capped, but everyone already knew that anyways.

[TaigaUC]

I'm fully expecting them to eventually implement a chance to nullify the damage variation via a great success, and only for higher level or special recipes.
I really doubt they will retroactively adjust it. They usually make us work for our gameplay fixes/balance.

[Walkure]

Make it into a support item and put it in the AC scratch.

[TaigaUC]

Or both. An untradable AC support item that only works for high level recipes, with only a 20% chance of success.
That way people will either have to get the recipes themselves or rely on others who have it.
I can totally see SEGA doing that.

[KatsuraJun]

Good thing I invested into ZRC on Gunner tree then, it seems.


60% crit rate gogo. Maybe I should max out Fury crit too. BLUE NUMBERS ALL DAY.

Seriously though, I assume it shouldn't be a big deal for Gunners that invest into ZRC right? I haven't had the chance to actually try out 60-70%~ crit rate yet but I do wanna extend my Missouri's or 2000H's for style.

[Maninbluejumpsuit]

I really doubt they will retroactively adjust it. They usually make us work for our gameplay fixes/balance.

LVL16 disks...

*fetal position*

[Coatl]

So..

リア／ティアンリン + アーム／ティアンエン gives you 90 r-atk 10 PP set bonus
リア／ネグロウィーダ + アーム／ネグロルーブ + ルレッグ／ネグロウィッチ gives you 90 t-atk and 10 PP bonus.

Why are these bad choices for crafted armor? They would give you more def than the best *10 armor and give you better set bonuses than half of them as well.

[Kamekur]

Your extra PP might get flushed down the toilet. Then again, I'm not sure, it's what I've read.

[Sanguine2009]

you still get the set bonus, you just get what ever is innate to the unit overwritten

[milranduil]

Set bonuses stay and crafting units granted NEW hp/pp bonuses based on the defensive type of craft:

S-def craft: 30hp/1pp
R-def craft: 20hp/2pp
T-def craft: 10hp/3pp

Tested this myself with Blitz Symbol/Sign units and were all normal successes (no greats). In the end, crafting 9* units seems to be a cheap, effective way of getting some nice defensive stats with decent set bonuses. However, again if you have top-tier units (Gloam + WhiteTail), don't bother.

[oratank]

Set bonuses stay and crafting units granted NEW hp/pp bonuses based on the defensive type of craft:

S-def craft: 30hp/1pp
R-def craft: 20hp/2pp
T-def craft: 10hp/3pp


set bonus or each bonus

[Coatl]

That's what each unit gets when crafted.

If you pick to go

S-def 20 HP/1PP
R-def 20HP/2PP
T-def 10HP/3PP

[UnLucky]

Ex Lv4 gives pretty good stats, always 294/266/266 at +10 no matter what recipe you use.

Just a shame you lose whatever Resists they had on it (unless crafted ones have it too?).

[Coatl]

Here are two good crafted sets off the bat.

Fegali set: 10 PP + 90 t-atk
リア／フェガリカット + リア／フェガリカット

Tian set: 10 PP + 90 r-atk
リア／ティアンリン + アーム／ティアンエン

The individual stats of these units suck, so crafting them for the craft bonuses would really boost your PP/HP. Not to mention crafted units have 290 s-defense at extendlv4.

With the Fegali set and Heiremjees (アーム／ヘイレムジース)as an arm unit, as well as having the foli set crafted for T-defense, that nets me 29 PP with no affixes.

You can do the same with the Tian set, but the leg unit you would need to give you 10 PP is 16m (レッグ／ホワイトテイル). You could find a cheaper variant that gives you less PP of course.

[Omega-z]

Under the JP wiki http://pso2.swiki.jp/index.php?%E3%82%AF%E3%83%A9%E3%83%95%E3%83%88 you lose more than just S/R/T resists and HP/PP but also the Elemental resists as well. I would suggest armors without any off those on that can add a Set Bonus to your gear which is cheap to upgrade, affix and that have at least 3+ slots on them.

[Maninbluejumpsuit]

Under the JP wiki http://pso2.swiki.jp/index.php?%E3%82%AF%E3%83%A9%E3%83%95%E3%83%88 you lose more than just S/R/T resists and HP/PP but also the Elemental resists as well. I would suggest armors without any off those on that can add a Set Bonus to your gear which is cheap to upgrade and affix that have at least 3+ slots on them.

So, let me get this straight once and for all (plus that wiki is engrish to me at best):

-The hidden resists, such as the striking resist on all XQ units, will disappear when the unit is extended, and there is currently no way to get them back, even through great success.

-The highest levels of unit extension only allow for combinations of 30HP+1PP, 20HP+2PP, and 10HP+3PP

If the above is confirmed true, I'll never touch my current XQ units with crafting.

[gigawuts]

So, let me get this straight once and for all (plus that wiki is engrish to me at best):

-The hidden resists, such as the striking resist on all XQ units, will disappear when the unit is extended, and there is currently no way to get them back, even through great success.

-The highest levels of unit extension only allow for combinations of 30HP+1PP, 20HP+2PP, and 10HP+3PP

If the above is confirmed true, I'll never touch my current XQ units with crafting.

The above is true.

Never touch your XQ sets with crafting (unless that changes).

[Omega-z]

@Maninbluejumpsuit - this is quoted from Bump.org under the crafting unit section.

"Before you craft a unit, please be aware of the following:
Inherent elemental resistances are lost after crafting. You can compensate for this by affixing special abilities that increase them.
Hidden HP/PP/Resistances are lost after crafting. But you may gain some HP/PP back.
By achieving a Great Success (大成功), the required stats to equip the item will be lowered. However this aspect is lost again upon re-crafting the item."

So yes you'll lose your hidden striking/range/tech resists, your base elemental (fire/ice/wind/electric/light/dark) resists and your base HP/PP.

[milranduil]

Here are two good crafted sets off the bat.

Fegali set: 10 PP + 90 t-atk
リア／フェガリカット + リア／フェガリカット

Tian set: 10 PP + 90 r-atk
リア／ティアンリン + アーム／ティアンエン

The individual stats of these units suck, so crafting them for the craft bonuses would really boost your PP/HP. Not to mention crafted units have 290 s-defense at extendlv4.

With the Fegali set and Heiremjees (アーム／ヘイレムジース)as an arm unit, as well as having the foli set crafted for T-defense, that nets me 29 PP with no affixes.

You can do the same with the Tian set, but the leg unit you would need to give you 10 PP is 16m (レッグ／ホワイトテイル). You could find a cheaper variant that gives you less PP of course.

Fegali only grants 60 t-atk. The Negro set gives 90 t-atk.

[Bellion]

Well, I tried to test my damage range with the Geki again.
I used:
Gekitsnata 884 S-atk Lvl 4 Extension 50 fire
Team Shifta Lv. 6(15%)
Shortcake(+30 S-atk)
Shiftaride
Big PP Drink w/ PA Damage Up
PP Slayer w/ 5 points

[SPOILER-BOX]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ax5efVdBgI0"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ax5efVdBgI0[/SPOILER-BOX]

Seems like a mid14k-mid17k damage range.

[SociableTyrannosaur]

The blitz set is a good one to mess with. +10 PP and +60 to R atk and S atk. I just tested it to make sure the wiki was right. Shame there's nothing for a solid 90 to S atk, but still...

Trying to find a good cheap Leg set to complete the ensemble. Melee is still getting the short end on armor options.

[nanakatrin]

Has to be someone here who max extended their agito (too pretty of a katana not to)

How much dex do you need to max extend it? I'm wondering how much dex I need to feed my mag..D:

[Bellion]

380, 420, 460, and 500 Ability respectively. Lvl 4 is the max for a 10*.

[Maninbluejumpsuit]

Has to be someone here who max extended their agito (too pretty of a katana not to)

How much dex do you need to max extend it? I'm wondering how much dex I need to feed my mag..D:

If I had to guess, you'd need 480 dex to use any max extended katana outside of 大成功!

edit: it's 500 on a 10*? Odd for not having different max atk values at +10 grind with max extension...

Seriously though, I'd advise against extending an agito.

[nanakatrin]

380, 420, 460, and 500 Ability respectively. Lvl 4 is the max for a 10*.

hnngh thank you that's just enough!~~


If I had to guess, you'd need 480 dex to use any max extended katana outside of 大成功!

edit: it's 500 on a 10*? Odd for not having different max atk values at +10 grind with max extension...

Seriously though, I'd advise against extending an agito.

/no regrets

[UnLucky]

Every max extended weapon requires 500 in the main stat, even for gunslash, katana, and bow. Which is odd, since Dex req is usually lower.

[Maninbluejumpsuit]

Oh my mistake. It was 480 on EXlvl 10 of 1-3*. Totally read things backwards.

[Coatl]

Fegali only grants 60 t-atk. The Negro set gives 90 t-atk.

Ah, yeah. My bad.

[Eternal255]

Glad I spec'd into crit when everyone said it was a bad idea :P

Now if only my game would load, so that I can actually test this shit out .-. screen jus goes black...

[Tevesh]

Glad I spec'd into crit when everyone said it was a bad idea :P

Now if only my game would load, so that I can actually test this shit out .-. screen jus goes black...

True, only reason to use a crit build is if you're using crafted weapons and don't/ won't have access to the 10-11* weapons. But even with that condition going into a crit build can be kind of a crapshoot since you'll be stuck with it and not gaining much once you have one of the high ranked weapons.

Kind of wish Crits did both max damage and gave a small (10% on max) damage bonus. Would make crafted weapons pretty useful given you can reach a higher high up until the top half of 10*s and 11*s, and moderately cheaper in the long run (if you take the extend to just before needing Saphard) since you wouldn't need to update your equipment and regrind it, abilities, and attributes.

[Z-0]

It's not expensive to buy something better than a max-crafted item, though.

Unless you refuse to spend money on a game you "really enjoy and love" so can't buy 10★ weapons.

[UnLucky]

A 10% damage skill would raise your minimum a lot more than any critical skill. Actually, unless you had 100% crit rate, your minimum won't increase at all, so you're only gimping yourself even further by speccing crit instead of pure damage.

I'll use Zero Range Crit since it is the highest amount of crit you can get for the lowest investment: +50% for 5SP. Assume you are always in range for it to activate.

Normally you would do 90-100% of your max with a 10*, and 80-100% with a crafted weapon (with zero Dex).
That means your average damage would be 95% with a 10* and 90% with a crafted weapon.
Since a crit forces your damage to 100%, that's an average increase of 5% on a 10* or 10% on a crafted weapon.
A 50% crit rate would mean an average increase of 2.5% on a 10* or 5% on a crafted weapon, so 97.5% and 95% respectively.
If you had 100% crit rate, obviously your average damage would be 100%.

Spending 5 SP for a 105% multiplier instead would make your damage range between 94.5-105% (99.75% average) with a 10*, and 84-105% (94.5% average)


Considering Dex raises your minimum damage to something like 95% with a 10* or 85% with a crafted weapon, critical skills are even less worthwhile. That, and only ZRC gives enough of a bonus to barely break even, though without actually raising your minimum damage, and requires you to be within range. 10 SP for 20% crit is an even worse idea.

[gigawuts]

Extending is pretty much just about multiclassing weapons and upgrading old units instead of replacing them. That's really just about it.

People who really want knuckles for their hunter, but aren't about to go finding a Weiss Comet, can rejoice. Kind of. It won't be very strong. And uh...launchers for gunners that still sub ranger. Wands for force maybe.

...

That about covers it really.

[Shadowth117]

Extending is pretty much just about multiclassing weapons and upgrading old units instead of replacing them. That's really just about it.

People who really want knuckles for their hunter, but aren't about to go finding a Weiss Comet, can rejoice. Kind of. It won't be very strong. And uh...launchers for gunners that still sub ranger. Wands for force maybe.

...

That about covers it really.

And with the power of RNG you can get daggers that don't actually lag other people horribly now with weapon switch dashing!... because that's totally not something that the devs themselves could have worked out.

[Husq]

Extending is pretty much just about multiclassing weapons and upgrading old units instead of replacing them. That's really just about it.

People who really want knuckles for their hunter, but aren't about to go finding a Weiss Comet, can rejoice. Kind of. It won't be very strong. And uh...launchers for gunners that still sub ranger. Wands for force maybe.

...

That about covers it really.
What about potential? I think it is worth considering, like for example if you can unlock ザックス with fury stance bonus, why not level it up to max? It is probably a cheaper alternative to 10*, if it is true that some rare weapons are easier to grind and affix than others.
Other potential worth considering are those that gives you bonus against certain types of enemies or increase PA damage.

[Bellion]

Superior all class Gekitsnata Ass Busting is wonderful. I don't even mind the variance since the lower ends of the variance is pretty much a higher end of say, an Amen Tomb using Assault Buster and factoring in potentials. . _.b

[milranduil]

I still want a Susano so I can properly play HU BR >_> but I think they're just a conspiracy... DNE! Otherwise, I would just all-class my Gekits :<

[Coatl]

Superior all class Gekitsnata Ass Busting is wonderful. I don't even mind the variance since the lower ends of the variance is pretty much a higher end of say, an Amen Tomb using Assault Buster and factoring in potentials. . _.b

I was curious. Can you one-shot spardan As with assault buster from GU/HU?

[Bellion]

Only with Shifta Drink(or Photon Drink w/ PA Damage Up) + Shiftaride + Team Shifta + units that boost striking attack as a Gu/Hu, yes. I am assuming that this is SH.