Natural character HP / Defense not rising fast enough.

[MidCap]

I feel like character HP and defense, especially for Forces, are not rising fast enough in terms of enemy strength.

I realize that FOs need to be somewhat more squishy than the other classes, but even on PSO1, a FO could accumulate a reasonable amount of HP / Defense without going to unreasonable expense.

This does not seem to be the case on PSO2, and affects more classes beyond FO. While enemy HP rises threefold over a five-level span, player stats do not keep up. Even with "decent" current-tier equipment, a FO can rarely survive two hits in Mining Base Defense, and can easily be one-shotted.

I understand that FOs can get one-shotted sometimes, but it happens a lot more in PSO2 than in PSO1 (save for Megid; I'm referring to damage-based attacks here).

In order to maintain my current DPS while making a modest gain in HP and defense, I would have to either:

A. Purchase a fully upgraded unit set for over 80 million Meseta, or
B. Buy the base pieces and upgrade them manually, which could cost even more than buying fully upgraded pieces if I'm unlucky.

What really compounds this problem is that there's no way to consistently hunt units on this game (at least when compared to weapons). You can literally play all day without getting a single "Red Code" that gives a decent chance to drop a good unit.

I was starting to worry in VH, but now I am dreading the next time enemy power increases. Pretty soon, medium-sized enemies will be able to regularly one-shot modestly geared FOs if something doesn't change. Right now, this only happens a handful of times, but it will get worse if the stat growth isn't adjusted.

Four or 5 HP per level-up isn't helping. I would like to see the next level cap increase come with some significant boosts to max HP and defense. Otherwise, we risk making the game inaccessible for FO players who don't have 100+ million Meseta to burn.

[Arksenth]

Wait, people still think 100m meseta is actually anything in this game..?

And learn to dodge, really.

[MidCap]

1. 100m Meseta is a lot to spend on one character. Sure, there's easy ways to make money, but there's easy ways to lose infinitely more money due to bad luck.

2. Even the best players are going to get hit once in awhile. It would be nice if that didn't mean certain death most of the time.

3. Post something constructive for once. You're always degrading people.

[Zorua]

I would suggest crafting your current unit set. Your units' defense will be on par with most of the new 10* units and you'll be able to keep your affixes.

Also, forces don't need to be near enemies to damage them. Stay at a safe distance and start launching techs. That, and practice keeping your deband up and dodging with your mirage step. You won't have to worry about your stats if you can do that.


Wait, people still think 100m meseta is actually anything in this game..?


"Hi guys, please pay attention to me!"

[HBK666]

Wait, people still think 100m meseta is actually anything in this game..?

And learn to dodge, really.

without your friend u have nothing.. go back to the corner u came out of.

[gigawuts]

The combat in this game isn't like PSO1 or PSU, it's more like Monster Hunter (And I'm told God Eater too). It's more about guarding and hitting than taking hits.

[MidCap]

I hate Monster Hunter. Too much defending and not enough gratifying ass-kicking.

[ShinMaruku]

It's very godeater. I wish it were a bit away from Mon Hun with the delay between drinking.

[gigawuts]

I hate Monster Hunter. Too much defending and not enough gratifying ass-kicking.

When you learn the game you get hit so seldomly that it hardly matters.

[Daemyn]

I think defense is borked in this game myself tbh
aside from using certain melee weapons to block counter or dagger parry
you are stuck with dodging :/

anything that can flinch and stun the enemies will be your friend if you want to live a little longer



If you're a force using a talis would be what I recommend to keep you away from mobs especially in super hard

closed spaces will be a pain though.

Try what you think is best though the way you play up to you.

[landman]

If you don't want to be invincible for 2 full seconds teleporting then use a Talis from a safe distance. If you are dying in Mine Defense maybe it's because... you are zondeeling the enemies to you and not teleporting away? other than that... I've mostly Gifoied/foied in MD and maybe died 5 times total in... two months?

[MidCap]

I'm not really having any trouble from a gameplay standpoint. This is just an observation about the stat growth in this game. It seems very imbalanced in favor of the enemy. (I'm not talking about enemies having huge numbers of HP, as we can do huge damage.) I mean that enemies are getting stronger faster than players in general. This either has to:

A. Eventually come to a stop, or
B. Reverse in favor of the player.

The game will eventually become too time consuming for the average person to approach if there's a perception that success cannot be achieved with a reasonable amount of time / expense.

Anyone who posts on a PSO enthusiast message board does not have a perception of a "reasonable" amount of time spent on this game; think of average people who just want to have fun. It IS possible for a game to become too grindy and lose the element of fun. What percentage of your PSO2 time is actual fun, and what percentage feels more like work?

[Zorafim]

I don't know, I don't feel too much weaker now than I did before. With crafting, I feel stronger. Yeah I die in three hits, but that's always been the case. The only difference was the first difficulty, where both I and the enemies took forever to die.

[GuardianGirth]

Yes, you're right. Forces really do need more HP. Long distance or not this game has so many bullshit hitbox moments that you get 1-2 shotted easily.

No one is good enough to defend everything. Everyone gets hit, everyone still dies. Anyone who says otherwise is full of shit.

Force dodge sucks. The faster things get, the worse it became.

[Shadowth117]

Yes, you're right. Forces really do need more HP. Long distance or not this game has so many bullshit hitbox moments that you get 1-2 shotted easily.

No one is good enough to defend everything. Everyone gets hit, everyone still dies. Anyone who says otherwise is full of shit.

Force dodge sucks. The faster things get, the worse it became.

This, so much. ^

[Edson Drake]

I agree.

Not only Forces, but every character's defence is reduced to "how many hits it can take" and by that, tanky characters can take 3/4 hits and survive, Rangers/Gunners can take 2/3 hits and Forces/Techers are always 1/2 hits and this with top equipment.

This is poor game-design. I know people bash a lot on Sega and I don't want to sound negative, but this really bothers me in this game, where the idea of difficulty= OHKO. It's easier to make monsters hit harder rather than adjust the AI.

I'm not sure if we're going to move away from this, only when Ultimate arrives we'll know, with hopefully higher defense units that up the ante against the higher level monsters.

[Walkure]

Not being able to survive more than 2-3 hits isn't really the main problem. That's how it works in higher rank hunts in Monster Hunter, and it's pretty well balanced by several game mechanics that prevent getting combo'd to death near instantly.

Dying in Monster Hunter in three hits is failing to dodge two big attacks twice in a row, and then getting KO'd. Maybe one of those was caused by a trash mob running up and flinching you for minor damage but allowing you to get hit the first time. The second attack, you had the ability to dodge so it was pretty much all you there. Congratulations, enjoy your ride on the kitty cart- you earned it.

A typical death in PSO2 is more like a sudden burst of damage as getting hit leads you to not being able to do anything about the next couple incoming ones. You're about to dodge a ragne shockwave, get hit by a predicahda doing a teleport strike from far away or a dagash running into you from behind your camera, causing you to lose a good chunk of health and get flinched long enough to not dodge the shockwave, taking you from 100% to 0% in half a second.

[MetalDude]

It's linked to a ton of fundamental problems with the game that have only become more glaring in Super Hard, namely:
-Flinch is absolute bullshit and will lead to a fair number of deaths just through flinchlock. Walkure's example is a perfect representation: I can dodge Ragne lightning spam, but I can't dodge it if I literally cannot move my character. Lightning hits so insanely hard that the precursor hit to it likely put you in range to get killed by it.
-Knockdown deaths. Why in the hell is the invulnerability so wonky on this? You can sometimes be down for a full second and still get hit and other times you can get hit almost immediately after landing. Getting knocked down in a dangerous situation is almost guaranteed death. And that along with this:
-Juggle deaths: Super bullshit. All it takes is the right combination of things alongside getting hit while knocked down and even 1000HP won't save you from this garbage. Considering that FO has to actively build for good survivability at a loss for T Atk, this is ridiculous when even HU mains are getting killed with their more easily achievable 900+ HP.

The problem is that rarely does getting hit ever feel like a punishment. The hitboxes are all over the place in this game and have easily been one of the worst parts of the combat as a whole ever since it came out. Gwana's charge having an extremely long lasting and awkward hitbox on the backend, Mizer in general (which thank god they mostly fixed), Banthers, Malmoth maniac charge (where the hell does that hitbox even come from? And it can put you in flinchlock and hit you twice!), sword Dinians of either type (that jump slash has insanely high vertical reach), Dichadas (same as Dinians), and more all leave me saying to myself "I wasn't even near that" almost every time I get hit by any of these attacks (outside of when the attack actually makes physical contact).

[Rakurai]

There really isn't any justification for why FO and TE have so much less HP then the other classes. TE at very least should have higher HP if they're encouraging you to get up close with wand attacks since the extra striking defense isn't enough.

I also find dying in this game to easily be the most frustrating out of any I've played, due to it almost always being a result of either flinchlocking or awful hitboxes. I almost never feel like I deserved it.

[Walkure]

I was actually talking about his charged up slam, but lightning works too.

TE having the same HP as FO was always odd. I'm not sure if HP buffs would be the first things I'd give those classes (techs need a lot more adjustments) but it'd be kinda neat to have.

[Chdata]

Defense an HP are more like your "how much can I slack off" stats.

[UnLucky]

Soon enough survivability will be so irrelevant that units will be purely for the offensive bonuses they provide.

Instead of just mostly for that purpose.

[WildarmsRE5]

tanky characters can take 3/4 hits and survive, Rangers/Gunners can take 2/3 hits*cough* *cough* Gu/Ra here. *cough* *cough* takes 5 hits to die in TD. . .

and *cough* *cough* MY definition of tanky. . . 2k HP with full Guard Stances. Quartz's attack only took his health to 1/12.

Quartz's Glory Rain only took almost half, like 1/3

[gigawuts]

I was actually talking about his charged up slam, but lightning works too.

TE having the same HP as FO was always odd. I'm not sure if HP buffs would be the first things I'd give those classes (techs need a lot more adjustments) but it'd be kinda neat to have.

I'd much rather see proper def buffs to classes. Give hunter and techer good def across the board - much better than they have now - leave force and ranger where they are, and give gunner and fighter a bit more to their main stay plus a decent secondary def stat.

The whole template thing they have going on for giving classes identical base stat amounts, varying only in what stat goes in what slot, is a pretty terrible idea. Skill trees - more specifically, stat ups - don't cover the finer needs each class has. Trying to pick up the slack with units limited to classes based on def reqs also failed miserably, hence def reqs being relaxed for virtually every single unit.

[Coatl]

And learn to dodge, really.

Or play Gunner or Braver and not have to dodge.

[WildarmsRE5]

but Gunners do dodge. . . them S-Roll I-Frames. . .

[Omega-z]

Hmm......Tank types take more hits then just 3/5 in SH. And HP isn't as necessary as much as %'s.

[Coatl]

but Gunners do dodge. . . them S-Roll I-Frames. . ..

Guild Millas.

[WildarmsRE5]

._. those are GodMode Guns. pls.

I got tired of NOT dying and bought a Hereticklely.

[UnLucky]

*cough* *cough* Gu/Ra here. *cough* *cough* takes 5 hits to die in TD. . .

and *cough* *cough* MY definition of tanky. . . 2k HP with full Guard Stances. Quartz's attack only took his health to 1/12.

Quartz's Glory Rain only took almost half, like 1/3

The hell kind of units do you have as Gu/Ra to have that much HP? Last I checked they had no 'tanky' skills.

And completely sacrificing all of one stat to boost the other is what OP is talking about. Enemies' offensive and defensive stats scale a lot higher than players, so the fact that you can only catch up in one is exactly the problem here.

Also let me know the names of anyone running full Guard Stance so I can blacklist them. War Cry can help (which you can get on a glass cannon build), but I'd rather the enemies actually die, thanks.

[WildarmsRE5]

Crys units, 3 slot, HP Affixes.

LOL, that was just an experiment with my friend just to see how far tank build can go. . . he got them Multiple Skill Trees anyway so he doesn't mind

[Inazuma]

I play as a Force with no HP boosts on my equipment or skill trees. It's rare for me to die because I learned how to play the game good enough to dodge almost everything.

Of course nobody is perfect, so I will occasionally make a mistake and get killed, or just be unlucky by some random string of events and have no choice but to die, but who cares. It's not like there is any kind of punishment for death in this game. It doesn't matter.

Weapons AND units should be about offense. The only time it's acceptable to think about defense, is how it relates to your offense. For example, if having more defense/HP will help you spend less time healing/dead, that might lead to attacking more often. Offense is everything in this game.

[MetalDude]

For example, if having more defense/HP will help you spend less time healing/dead, that might lead to attacking more often. Offense is everything in this game.
Which is usually where I put Stamina Boosts to use as they don't really detract from any potential damage that could be gained (outside of opting for Spirita but 130+ PP is already pretty comfortable for me).

It's not so much avoiding death in general (because I really don't die that much either), but investing in bullshit protection insurance. Dying isn't terrible, but it's irritating and I'd rather put myself out of 2-shot range as a FO so I don't have to constantly heal.

[Daemyn]

we need pso1 barriers !

or evp and sega not give the enemies 4,000,000,000, ata but well sega would do that wouldn't they?

or at lest a real shield and not a katana sheath

I have enough meseta and a character slot to blow on tank experiments now beyond just an over extended tank set I made for fun >_>.

[Tenlade]

65/65 te/fi, full set of 11* XQ units, which give 20+ hp on equipping with +55hp in affixes for 75 hp per units, for over 200 hp given to my techer.

Even at level cap, even with a fully grinded and affixed set of some of the strongest armor in the game, I still die in one shot to any boss in sh if its boosted, or just one of its stronger attacks. For a class that gets into melee range, and loses its large invincibility frames with the more harder to time step, this is horribly balanced.

[Saffran]

The only really critical attacks I have to face are boosted bosses and "super moves", espescially those based on magic attack. I have around 1300HP as hunter, but a boosted Nove Ringada can hit for slightly over 5000 with his magic cannon, so...

I'm trying to get the ultimate set, but I'm still quite unsure what that set would be, because PSO2 is not quite sure what it wants to be...

After all's been said and done though, defense is not important enough in this game. Everybody affixes for attack - that's a problem, right there. I know it's a MMO - but so was PSO1 and the defense was so much more important and achievable there. (I used to run around with 100% magic defense in all elements)

[Omega-z]

@Saffran - Do you mean 500 and not 5000? because that's a lot of damage. 0.o

Oh, and Ringada's dark wind cannon/s is R-atk based.

[landman]

we need pso1 barriers !

or evp and sega not give the enemies 4,000,000,000, ata but well sega would do that wouldn't they?

or at lest a real shield and not a katana sheath

I have enough meseta and a character slot to blow on tank experiments now beyond just an over extended tank set I made for fun >_>.

You mean random shield animation that will stop any movement/combo instead of using the shield action by yourself? please, no, I had enough of this on PSU, at least they corrected it in PSP2 and you just "dodged" it, not to mention being surrounded by 3 harmless rappies in PSO (momentary afk) and not being able to move because you are constantly shielding. If you want a shield, equip a sword, or a partizan, or a wired lance, or a katana, it's that easy.