Just a random thought

[Maninbluejumpsuit]

Not sure if it warrants a thread but, think if/when beast race becomes playable, sega should make race change tickets via AC?

Outside of cast being anything else, and vice versa, it actually makes more sense in phantasy star compared to just about any other MMO considering newman, deuman, and beast were all products of genetic manipulation, and as we all know theodore rerolled deuman.

Thoughts? Should we all psuedo-petition for it next player survey?

[BIG OLAF]

I know that in TERA, there's gender change tickets and race change tickets. I always thought that was pretty cool.

Their price, however, is not so cool (they cost real money).

[Horo The Wise Wolf]

I've wanted this to be a thing for a while. I thought they might have gone through with it when they released Dewmans. The character slot was cool too.

[Maninbluejumpsuit]

I know that in TERA, there's gender change tickets and race change tickets. I always thought that was pretty cool.

Their price, however, is not so cool (they cost real money).

I never mind paying some cash for major character asthetic change (such as race) as long as the price doesn't exceed 15 usd.

Sometimes I find it hard to justify the reason why I stopped playing TERA... or maybe I just forgot why... I need to grab one of those business suits...


I've wanted this to be a thing for a while. I thought they might have gone through with it when they released Dewmans. The character slot was cool too.

I've got the sudden urge to try making a dark-skinned deuman with their racial body tatoos, but I'm not about to make a new character from the ground up to do it.

I really am surprised they didnt go through with the option to make more money off a f2p game with dripfeed content spread thinner than peanut butter on bread made on a budget. Really hope they do eventually.

[Lumpen Thingy]

I know that in TERA, there's gender change tickets and race change tickets. I always thought that was pretty cool.

Their price, however, is not so cool (they cost real money).

to be honest I wouldn't mind seeing this in PSO2 lol

[GoldenFalcon]

as we all know theodore rerolled deuman.

Spoilers.

Holy shit.

[gigawuts]

they show it in the trailers

I mean...

[UnLucky]

There are no male newmans

They simply do not exist

[GoldenFalcon]

There are no male newmans

They simply do not exist

Is Arfin a dog

[strikerhunter]

While I like the idea of changeable race with AC purchase, etc. it's pretty obvious that instead of doing that, Sega will just give out another account wide free character slots.

I'm think coding maybe an issue since race are tied to stats but I think that's only minor though.

[BIG OLAF]

to be honest I wouldn't mind seeing this in PSO2 lol

Yes, it would be pretty neat.

However, I hope they wouldn't make the tickets like $15 for a gender change and like $30 for a race change. Last I checked (years ago), that's what TERA's prices were for those.

[UnLucky]

I'd much prefer a third free character slot so I could farm triboosters from bingo

[gigawuts]

I want to say race changing should be added to the game, but then I follow what I believe Sega's logic, and well

If you want to change your race for long enough you'll eventually buy a new character, and then you'll have TWO characters to hate leveling on enough to buy twice the boosters. This means more money!

Or you could say fuck it and not do it.

[UnLucky]

More characters to buy inventory space, accessories, mags and skill trees!

[Maninbluejumpsuit]

Spoilers.

Holy shit.

It was in the trailers. That's why I didn't put spoiler tags there. If you didn't know, that is literally your fault.

[GoldenFalcon]

srs.

tehee

[infiniteeverlasting]

There are no male newmans

They simply do not exist

sadly I am a male newman, simply because they looked cool to me... until i found out about their shitty base stats as a braver, but it was too late by then.

[Maninbluejumpsuit]

sadly I am a male newman, simply because they looked cool to me... until i found out about their shitty base stats as a braver, but it was too late by then.

I think the fact guy+elf ears isn't as asthetically pleasing compared to the opposite gender has a little more to do with why they're so rare than just their base stats.

[infiniteeverlasting]

I think the fact guy+elf ears isn't as asthetically pleasing compared to the opposite gender has a little more to do with why they're so rare than just their base stats.

guy + elf = pro androgynous male. Androgynous males always look better than anything, that is why America has a bad taste in male character designs especially in video games (god of war is the epitome of this). Just look at Link from legend of zelda to take as an example. If you read manga or watch anime, all Shoujo male characters that are considered "hot" by the female fangroup are all androgynous male characters. This is my tutorial on the aesthetics of a male.

[gigawuts]

guy + elf = pro androgynous male. Androgynous males always look better than anything, that is why America has a bad taste in male character designs especially in video games (god of war is the epitome of this). Just look at Link from legend of zelda to take as an example. If you read manga or watch anime, all Shoujo male characters that are considered "hot" by the female fangroup are all androgynous male characters. This is my tutorial on the aesthetics of a male.

http://1-media-cdn.foolz.us/ffuuka/board/vg/image/1337/39/1337390011838.jpg

[infiniteeverlasting]

http://1-media-cdn.foolz.us/ffuuka/board/vg/image/1337/39/1337390011838.jpg

LOL ^^; sorry if my point didn't get across to you

[Vandread]

I'm think coding maybe an issue since race are tied to stats but I think that's only minor though.
It's mostly just needing to deal with the database. You'd have to put in a lot of effort to do this right. I can try to explain it a bit, to show what kind of process lies underneath (although this is going to be very simplified still and not really representative of the true deal really).

In short, your entire character, when broken down is nothing but a bunch of flags for race, gender, which stuff it has unlocked for appearances, etc. PSO2 utilizes a base model for each race/gender combination, and users create a transformation matrix for said base model in the character creation. Certain races have things that other races do not have (ie cast having hover/walk setting, or deuman having access to changing horns but not ears, etc). Other than that you'd have to code things 'in advance' and remain as flexible as possible. Race/gender specific equipment isn't quite there yet, but what if it happens in the future? Simple example of course, you cannot just change race/gender and call it done (even the appearance part alone is a recipe for potential coding horrors).

I've looked in a couple of databases for games, so I kinda have a bit of a feeling for how things could hook together. So, if you really want a simplified example of how it could look, check the spoiler below. It's kind of long, and in reality it would likely be longer (even if going just by what I can come up with, in reality I bet SEGA's database is structured wildly different even still).

[spoiler-box]
Table 1 - Account information:
Primary Key - Account Identification number ->

Accountname - string;
Password - string (encrypted; for most form, look at MD5 Hashing)
Player ID - string;
Ship 1 Chars - array of integers;
Ship 2 Chars - array of integers;
etc...
Ship 1 Team - integer;
Ship 2 Team - integer;
etc...
AC - integer


Table 2 - Team information:
Primary Key - Team Identification number ->

Team Name - string;
Team Members - array integers (character identification numbers);
Team Managers - array of integers (character identification numbers);
Team Master - integer (character identification number);
Team Homepage - string;
Team Welcome Msg - string;
Team Points - integer;
etc.


Table 3 - Character Information:
Primary Key - Character Identification Number ->

Character Name - string;
Character Race - integer (0-1-2-3; Human/Newman/Cast/Deuman);
Character Gender - integer (0-1; Male/Female);
Support Partners - array of integers;
Base Model Transformation Matrix - array of arrays of floats;
Unlocked Voices - array of integers (item identification numbers);
Unlocked Accessories - array of integers (item identification numbers);
Voice - array of integers (item identification number + pitch shift);
Accessories - array of integers (item identification numbers 1-2-3);
Bodypaint - integer (item identification number);
Movement method - integer (cast only; hover/walk);
Main class - integer (0 = hu, 1 = ra, etc);
Sub class - integer (-1 = not set/unlocked; 0 = hu, 1 = ra, etc);
Main Skilltree - integer (0-1-2-3-4 etc)
Sub Skilltree - integer (0-1-2-3-4 etc);
Weaponpalettes - multidimensional array;
Subpalettes - multidimensional array;
Selected Weaponpalette - integer;
Selected Subpalette - integer;
Equipped Rear unit - integer (linked to inventory);
Equipped Arm unit - integer (linked to inventory);
Equipped Leg unit - integer (linked to inventory);
etc.
...

Note: This one is probably even broken down further; probably in an appearance, class settings; palettes; equipment; inventory; client orders type of subtables. Just for the sake of simplicity, I kept it all together as it makes it easier to understand how the linking happens.

Explanation towards this:
As you create your character you're dragging handles around, these handles change the way the character looks in terms of shape. Basically what you're doing is generating a massive transformation matrix to be applied to the base model to shape-change it into the way you want it to look.

This is also the part that's complicated cause certain race combinations have access to a certain part while others don't. For example, Deuman have Horns, but not Ears.

Furthermore, appearance-wise Deumans have unique bodypaints, Casts have unique eyes, Casts can choose to hover/walk, etc. etc.

In terms of equipment, I gather that they simply store all the modifiers in an array of the item and them having a database which contains item information on its base stats, and whatnot.
Example weapon:

itemID# (non unique; ie all Vraolets are "1");
unique ID# (no duping of items allowed);
grind level (0-10);
latent level (0-3);
element (array of 2 integers; 1st being which element, 2nd being amount);
affixes (array of affixIDs);
Where the itemID# links to another table which has the base stats and what weapon-type, what compatible classes, what requirements, etc.

Table 4 - Hunter Information:
Primary Key - Character Identification Number ->

Experience - integer;
Bonus SP - integer (think the +5 SP CO's on 30/45);
Skilltree - array of array of integers;

(ie if you have 1 tree its [ [skill-levels serialized ] ], if you have 2 trees its [ [ skilllevels serialized of tree 1 ] , [ skilllevels serialized of tree 2] ] )

**** Table 5/6/7/8/9/10 - Repeat for Ranger/Force/Fighter/Gunner/Techer/Braver

Table 11 - Support Partners:
Primary Key - Support Partner Identification Number ->

<insert the stuff on character info for used accessories, voices, gender, race, name,etc>
Hunter XP - integer;
Ranger XP - integer;
etc.
Set Class - integer (0 = hu, 1 = ra, etc);
Affection level - integer (0-1-2-3-4-etc)
Dispatched on CO's - array of integers (client order identification numbers etc);
...


...etc etc etc...

[/spoiler-box]

I think by now you get the basic idea and how it links together.
As you can see, the problematic parts is mostly just in the table describing the way your character looks and what it has equipped and ensuring that all remains compatible during the race transferring procedure.

Flicking the gender/race around is one thing of course, but imagine the difficulties that arise when:
-fleshy -> cast
-male -> female

A costume needs to be exchanged for parts now. Suddenly there is no room in the inventory for it, what do now? Send the costume to system storage, but that only frees up 1 spot for 3 parts. What do now? Let the inventory temporarily overroll? What if the user already has 100/100?

What if there's race/gender restricted equipment planned, such as Vivienne in PSO? Send all equipped weapons/units too? What if a character in the new racegender combination cannot use certain equipment that the player relied on? Show a table showing how stats alter on all classes? Do you recall all your equipments requirements? Maybe show the inventory and storage and show which items are no longer compatible? But how does that work with multiple skilltrees and multiple MAGs?

That'd be one horror-UI for the user to wade through. Simply warning them wouldn't quite cut it either. Offering a revert option then - what about it just having taken the AC? Should it refund that too then?

Furthermore, appearance-wise, you'd have to reset accessories, reset hairstyle (to what?), reset voice, reset...

I'd wager the fastest way to doing it is simply sending everything in the inventory to system storage and walking the user through character creation again but with the compatible accessories and such already unlocked.

It sounds like a drag. Potentially a nightmare even, since it gets more and more complicated with each time SEGA makes an update related to item requirements, classes, etc. I'm not saying it cannot be done, because I'm 100% sure it can be done. Thing is that this is something that you'd have to spend a fair amount of hours on, and I'm not quite sure that there's a good cost:benefit ratio in it for SEGA. If it doesn't benefit them ultimately, they won't do it. How many people will actually change race? That's the question. Will this feature pay itself back in a reasonable amount of time? It'd need updates along the way too as things go on and customization gets more and more complicated.


A super-easy example to do this on would be RFOnline, where you basically get to choose race/gender/base class. For actual customization, all you have is face design/hair style for character and costume upper/lower/hands/feet. The database stored that in just a string of integers, ending up with something like 100101 lol. Lineage II is another MMO where you could do this relatively easy (although I haven't looked into that since they added the more fashionista elements to it).

One could say Aion is a tiny bit harder, but Aion is relatively easy still as it's just a bunch of sliders that customize your character. That can be represented by an array containing a series of integers or so.

I have to say I haven't played it personally, but TERA looks to be rather similar in nature. Seems to just have more options and thus a longer array of integers...

PSO2 though, not so much... the customization level is a fair bit higher simply because you're unlocking things as you play. Basic principle for basic design still, just the fashion stuff and unique aspects to each race make it a lil' more complicated than most.

[Gardios]

snip
You're overthinking this. Just because PSO2's character customization is more intricate compared to other MMORPGs doesn't mean it'd actually be much more diffcult to implement. Of course, I'm assuming that they were somewhat smart when they've designed their back-end—who knows if they really were.

[infiniteeverlasting]

and when did sex-oriented insults come to play in this forum? Personally, i'd just rather not play as a sexy female character and get checked out by other males (cuz i know i have a tendency to do that), because, doesn't it make you feel awkward if you think about it? so why not just become a sexy male character instead? after all, video games are an escape to some people, the character i make is a reflection of the way i wish i looked.

[Walkure]

and when did sex-oriented insults come to play in this forum? Personally, i'd just rather not play as a sexy female character and get checked out by other males (cuz i know i have a tendency to do that), because, doesn't it make you feel awkward if you think about it? so why not just become a sexy male character instead? after all, video games are an escape to some people, the character i make is a reflection of the way i wish i looked.You're opening yourself up for a lot more abuse with that line. :lol:

There are a lot of different ideas about how to make an avatar; some people make self-inserts, while others create a fully fledged character to roleplay. Some people, myself included, just take a relatively simple idea and roll with it. There's not any one "right" way to make a character, so just have fun with what you make!

[infiniteeverlasting]

You're opening yourself up for a lot more abuse with that line. :lol:

There are a lot of different ideas about how to make an avatar; some people make self-inserts, while others create a fully fledged character to roleplay. Some people, myself included, just take a relatively simple idea and roll with it. There's not any one "right" way to make a character, so just have fun with what you make!

Does his "abuse" really matter? After all, he's a random guy on the net who's probably in his late 20s trying to diss a mere highschooler like me, I think that's more of an insult to himself than to anyone else, but I digress. playing as a female character kinda makes me feel like a horny guy playing a game to see my own character's bouncy boobs...

[UnLucky]

playing as a girl = gay
playing as a girly boy = gay
playing as a manly man = gay

Survey says: Video games are gay

[Ratazana]

There is always a special snowflake who wants to bring his ken to a barbie party.

[Walkure]

playing as a female character kinda makes me feel like a horny guy playing a game to see my own character's bouncy boobs...There's nothing forcing you to max breast size or wearing a revealing outfit in this game. So you have just as much boob/butt showing as you care to have showing.

Good on ya for not caring about getting ragged on, by the way.

playing as a girl = gay
playing as a girly boy = gay
playing as a manly man = gayDepending on how you want to interpret avatar creation, you can pretty much psychoanalyze (i.e. bullshit) anyone to be gay and/or transgender for their avatar choice. Playing the same gender? If you view character creation as something that "looks nice", you're looking at your own gender all day; that's gay! Playing the opposite gender? If you view character creation as your personal projection into a fantasy world, you're implying you identify as the other gender (i.e. transgender).

[Arksenth]

I keep saying this but they REALLY need to make more stripperific male costumes.

SIGH.

no one is paying 200 AC not to see those tight buns

[WildarmsRE5]

the G string for men exists. . .

[Walkure]

I keep saying this but they REALLY need to make more stripperific male costumes.Hey, they generally have like male analogues for when they give out bikinis and whatnot, so they're somewhat decent at it. Very little in-between swimsuit/speedo and full clothing, though.

[BIG OLAF]

I expect to see Conspire in the fundoshi come Wednesday.

No excuses.

[Arksenth]

No, no, that's no good.

The costume has to be designed as if it were SUPPOSED to be a functional piece, but with odd bits of clothing inexplicably missing in borderline naughty areas for no actual reason or purpose other than "stripperifizing".

See: Crazy Kitten, Valgiris, or pretty much every piece of clothing women have in this game more or less.

Ass Window and Dick Lace on otherwise full suits of armor plz

[Maninbluejumpsuit]

I'll just throw my two cents back in and mention that many the male newman I've seen we'rent pretty boys, shotos, or androgynous.

They were manly men, usually with facial hair, at least 6' tall with elf ears, which is just... strange to me.

[Saffran]

You may want to check out the hashtag otokonoko (男の娘) on twitter images. There was a specific one for PSO2 but it escapes me.

[Gardios]

Ass Window and Dick Lace on otherwise full suits of armor plz

We really need butt and dick sliders first. And by really, I mean absolutely necessary.

[Vandread]

You're overthinking this. Just because PSO2's character customization is more intricate compared to other MMORPGs doesn't mean it'd actually be much more diffcult to implement. Of course, I'm assuming that they were somewhat smart when they've designed their back-end—who knows if they really were.


I don't think things like equipment would be a problem-- or if it is a problem, it's the player's problem. They have to know what they're getting themselves into before they change their race/sex. Even if they get angry and quit over something like that, Sega would already have their money, and that player obviously isn't dedicated enough to spend money again in the first place, so why should they care? A simple warning before using the ticket (not before purchasing; that might hurt sales) that some equipment / clothing might become unusable should be sufficient.

I'm just saying it ain't as easy as flicking 2 fields in the database to something else when it comes to this. Yes, it's more than doable, but doing it right (for players involved as well) is the actual problem.

You could go for a simple solution like reverting back to default look for new race/gender and giving out a make-over ticket or so to use at the Este. Technically that solves the issue. Player gets new race/gender and gets to change their look, effectively altering their character - very much so in the truest sense.

Subjectively it might not, as some players in extreme cases might shaft themselves over out of being unable to use their equipments. Just having 1 or 2 points less could do that. I know this is a dress-up-doll type of game, but since it's also an ARPG where race and gender affect your stats...

Who is to blame in that case? The player for not thinking things through beforehand, or the developer of the function for not informing the player properly about this beforehand? A general warning in the sense of "You might be unable to equip some items" is meaningless beyond a certain degree.

It's not like a normal player would be able to check the new statistics beforehand, ingame. You'd need some tool much like the simulator Gardios made. And even that would rely on data that normally is not out there. True, if it was simple level-based requirements (like the more mainstream MMO), it wouldn't be an issue, but it's not really level-based here. Painful example being the cast-race when shoved into Force or Techer (back in the day).


Point is - in mainstream, yes it's easy to do. But if you design a system like this, it needs to be able to handle all situations, including the most extreme ones you can come up with. And be as future proof as possible, while we're at it...


The aesthetic aspects of each race, on the surface, look so simple to swap out that I'm surprised you can't just rename the files (like .mnp to .mhp) and let it fill in the blanks when you load it up. But I guess it is Sega we're talking about here, and they don't like to make it easy for themselves. :/
If they're smart, they have split the transformation matrix up into their individual parts instead of having 1 enormous one. Then you could just apply the parts that work / are compatible. It also feels rather future proof that way too.

Simplest example, Deuman with Horns vs Human with modified ears. Deuman can't modify their ears, so the ear part of the transform matrix gets ignored. Since Human doesn't have Horns, their transformation matrix is just 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 etc, being the default value.

You exactly thought what I thought though with regards to changing the filename... If done properly you should be able to at least for the same gender, I'd guess.

[Ce'Nedra]

As for the topic of changing character race/sex, it'd be really disappointing if they didn't think ahead to make that a somewhat simple process. Sure, it's simpler to just throw a character slot at us, but it would have been a much better move financially to just give us a race change ticket in the AC shop. (I would have bought an additional character slot just to get a head start on my planned beast character if this was available. They could get me for DOUBLE the money here.) The aesthetic aspects of each race, on the surface, look so simple to swap out that I'm surprised you can't just rename the files (like .mnp to .mhp) and let it fill in the blanks when you load it up. But I guess it is Sega we're talking about here, and they don't like to make it easy for themselves. :/

I don't think things like equipment would be a problem-- or if it is a problem, it's the player's problem. They have to know what they're getting themselves into before they change their race/sex. Even if they get angry and quit over something like that, Sega would already have their money, and that player obviously isn't dedicated enough to spend money again in the first place, so why should they care? A simple warning before using the ticket (not before purchasing; that might hurt sales) that some equipment / clothing might become unusable should be sufficient.

I agree with this, it's weird they haven't done this yet. Right now my latest char Miasia rolled Human but if Beasts release I want her a Beast since she was one in PSU and it would fit her better background story related to. I just pray they will add something like this cause I am not gonna start her over and waste time and meseta I spend on Cat tails etc just to make her a Beast.

[jcart953]

I'll just throw my two cents back in and mention that many the male newman I've seen we'rent pretty boys, shotos, or androgynous.

They were manly men, usually with facial hair, at least 6' tall with elf ears, which is just... strange to me.
^ I kinda agree with this since my male newman has an afro and a beard lol


We really need butt and dick sliders first. And by really, I mean absolutely necessary.

^^ Lol I'm bias I seriously hope that doesn't happen.


In relation to the topic I don't think we will get any change ticket, I mean we didn't get it for Dewman why would we get it for Beast?

[Maninbluejumpsuit]

In relation to the topic I don't think we will get any change ticket, I mean we didn't get it for Dewman why would we get it for Beast?

If there's money in it, there's a possibility it can happen.

edit: thinking about it... wouldn't Casra be a fangirl favorite?

[WildarmsRE5]

thinking about it... wouldn't Casra be a fangirl favorite?needs more screentime to be possible.

[Gama]

we need a beast race.

we need a bulge slider.

we need a rappy race.

we need more man beards.

did i mention the bulge slider?

[FacelessRed]

I'm on board for a bulge slider, as currently everyone males and females have vajayjays

[Shadowth117]

I'm on board for a bulge slider, as currently everyone males and females have vajayjays

[spoiler-box]http://17f0418678386b4e6860-e4f9fcd924b589d19bf6ccc2802ea9aa.r66.cf1.rackcdn.c om/1d62184fbfa063b8fbaf2fa49c41723b4531b1ca.jpg__620x 349_q85_crop_upscale.jpg[/spoiler-box]

...that would be different.

[Arksenth]

That's supposed to be 100 Sex Appeal?

Looking at it.

Meeeeeeeeeeeeh.

No, no, I'm fine with that.

I'm sorry for laughing.

No, I don't want you to leave.

Yes, yes - it's not about the size, it's about how you use it.

It'll... hurt less, I suppose?

[Aine]

Facial structure is actually pretty different across the races, at least for female characters. You won't get the same face if you copy the sliders from one race to another.

[strikerhunter]

As for the topic of changing character race/sex, it'd be really disappointing if they didn't think ahead to make that a somewhat simple process. Sure, it's simpler to just throw a character slot at us, but it would have been a much better move financially to just give us a race change ticket in the AC shop. (I would have bought an additional character slot just to get a head start on my planned beast character if this was available. They could get me for DOUBLE the money here.) The aesthetic aspects of each race, on the surface, look so simple to swap out that I'm surprised you can't just rename the files (like .mnp to .mhp) and let it fill in the blanks when you load it up. But I guess it is Sega we're talking about here, and they don't like to make it easy for themselves. :/


Now that I've read your post and just bout every single post in the thread, I'm seriously dubbed out on why sega never really took advantage of this.

-Coding is very possible <basically take character creation coding which has the ability to change race, lock it behind AC. Like literally just through the character creation code into the salon but without the creating new character and lock race changing with AC> (I know coding is harder to do than say but I'm just pointing out that the code exists) but this can be entirely blocked off because of the deal from turning cast to fleshy or fleshy to cast (clothes/parts where they go? from the top of my mind).

But then again, giving players a free character slot for when a new race comes out could also benefit them in the long run:
-basically forces players to reroll a new character and invest time and $$$$ into that character.

As I said around in the first page, yea I would like race change tickets (I know lots would) but in a finical perspective the race change ticket is really a gamble that will most likely workin the short run (likely) primarily during AC scratch rotations whereas comparing to the long run free slots forces players to invest time and possibly $$$$ into new characters (meaning more $$$$ spent per since more characters). Yea both are gambles but in terms of $$$$, giving free slots is Sega's better option.

[Aine]

Ehhh. (https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/WxYOX9h4Jt5yfwgv_ny2Y6-wQmVeMI_RtR3HKb1g6Og)
Only real difference is skin tone / skin texture. That's a human and newman with the skin tone slider in the exact same spot, and near-identical facial features. Though, the human I'm using there is a little outdated in the body proportions, I don't think they would affect the face...


Is that Newman to Human? I'm guessing they're pretty similar. I tried copying Human sliders to Cast and it was completely different. Dewman also seems to have a completely different nose structure.