PSO2 Live Broadcast 17

[Manta Oyamada]

http://i.minus.com/isavXSKDAzLUS.jpg


Information the March Update
Collaboration Information (Shingeki no Kyojin ??)
The Unveiling of “Mining Base Defense Part 2”
PSO2 Trivia Corner
Lobby Action Presents



Airs: March 4th @ 21:00JST, 12:00GMT, 7:00EST, 6:00MST, 5:00PST, 13:00CET, 20:00MYT on Nico Nico (http://live.nicovideo.jp/watch/lv170606715?ref=qtimetable&zroute=index)


Other links http://live.nicovideo.jp/watch/lv171384626?ref=ser&zroute=search&keyword=pso2

[jooozek]

oh right, thats why there is no scheduled fallus nor td tmrw at 23:30 JST

[Meji]

oh right, thats why there is no scheduled fallus nor td tmrw at 23:30 JSTHighly possible we'll ge a last one, since they usualy throw up those kinds of "crowd voting" events during the stream.

I'll try not to miss this one.

[Manta Oyamada]

open o/

[TaigaUC]

Falz 200% exp 200% drop rate.

[Manta Oyamada]

【『PSO2放送局』第17回放送中!】アンケート企画！今回はレアドロップ倍率＆経験値の違う2つで選択 です。「採掘基地防衛戦」＋100％と「猛る黒曜の暴腕」＆「深遠に至りし巨なる躯」＋200％！あなたは どちら？

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-pF4BZAzC8JU/UxXCdXG4E6I/AAAAAAAAYCo/aa1TC3Nfffg/s912/Bh4cEnwCYAATWbw%25C3%25A7.png

[Manta Oyamada]

【『PSO2放送局』第17回放送中!】いよいよ始まりました！本日のお品書きの紹介です。アップデート新 情報では進撃コラボの情報が!?今日の菅沼に聞けのネタは？今日のとっておき映像は何でしょうか？ぜひ皆さ んでご覧ください。

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-6XlfFbQvJ1M/UxXDZd6VTBI/AAAAAAAAYC8/Ihcm4p6OLes/s912/Bh4bnxMCQAEDq-L%25C3%25A7.png

[oratank]

wow satelight beam pa

[Arada]

I must be like 99.9% of the users here, I can't read. Could you translate?

[Shinamori]

b20 is gonna fail part 2 of TD so hard. 4 bases to protect now?

[Lostbob117]

Is there anyone who is restreaming?

[TaigaUC]

Il Barta looks like it'll be very useful.
It looked like sword? is getting a PA to carry enemies around.

TD2 will have Wolgarda, Zeshirayda, Ragne.

[Shinamori]

Is there anyone who is restreaming?
http://www.twitch.tv/fireswordmrm

[Ezodagrom]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ySLGLfKMJZU

[oratank]

nothing

[Manta Oyamada]

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-gHduHIYMcLw/UxXIktqFunI/AAAAAAAAYDU/ZSmwHhnVXhk/s912/1-2.png

[oratank]

b20 is gonna fail part 2 of TD so hard. 4 bases to protect now?

well there r 5 tower or 5 wall touse to def tower?

[Ezodagrom]

Hahahahaha.
Colossus Titan room background scenery and lobby.

[Manta Oyamada]

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-AvdxqGZAYlA/UxXIx9DabSI/AAAAAAAAYDk/28Rtw-JHbPo/s912/12.png

[Shinamori]

well there r 5 tower or 5 wall touse to def tower?

I saw 4 towers.

[Shinamori]

Trailer already up.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ySLGLfKMJZU

[final_attack]

Would love to see that Satellite Canon in video ..... but I missed it :<

nvm ... it's in the trailer ..... Maybe I'll start playing as Ranger once I got that Satellite lol

[Ezodagrom]

Would love to see that Satellite Canon in video ..... but I missed it :<
Last page and also in the post before yours. :>

?PSO2???????????? ?????? part2?3?????????? - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ySLGLfKMJZU)

Also, Attack on Titans trailer:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hVn60lRvgdc

[Digital Pain]

Can't watch the stream right now at work.. Hoping Sega give us a limited quest for the shingeki collab, give me re skinned Wolgahda's make them look like abnormal titans lol

[final_attack]

Time to start thinking about Rifle then :>

That Satellite Cannon :>

[Ezodagrom]

Can't watch the stream right now at work.. Hoping Sega give us a limited quest for the shingeki collab, give me re skinned Wolgahda's make them look like abnormal titans lol
Just outfits (Eren and Mikasa), weapon camos (twin dagger and wired lance), my room background scenery and lobby.

[TaigaUC]

If I heard correctly, if they beat the challenge, Falz will get an even bigger boost.

[final_attack]

Thanks for the upload btw ^o^ I'll wait for next upload (if there will be any) ^o^

[HIT0SHI]

Digging Attack on Titan collab and rifle PA ;D

[TaigaUC]

Yeah, it's funny seeing the rifle PA nuke enemies.

[final_attack]

Now, I wanna buy a rifle ..... usually I don't wanna use a rifle but ........ I'll make exception for this one LOL

* Stares at current money * not enough to buy all-class rifle (Holy Ray) :okay:

[TaigaUC]

Ichitarou had Guard Stance on the whole time? Hmm.

[Manta Oyamada]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1pJUV0iomNw&feature=youtu.be

[TaigaUC]

Watching them play TD2 is kinda frustrating.
I hope it doesn't end up like that when we get it.

[deahamlet]

LOL just like pugs chasing crystals instead of defending

[TaigaUC]

They've got a good WBer at least.
And Ichitarou knows to go for the leg first.
Most of the groups I've been in still don't understand that.

Hmm. Only one barrier and heal per tower?

[oratank]

They've got a good WBer at least.
And Ichitarou knows to go for the leg first.

Most of the groups I've been in still don't understand that.

Hmm. Only one barrier and heal per tower?

u need to tell them where to wb focus

[TaigaUC]

Different set of drops from TD2. As expected.

I guess future TDs will be a good source of rares in general.

[Ezodagrom]

Different set of drops from TD2. As expected.

I guess future TDs will be a good source of rares in general.
In the trailer it was shown that there will be new 11*s similar to the TD1 ones.
A rod, katana, knuckles, launcher and partisan.

[deahamlet]

Is the falz 6:30 PST?

[TaigaUC]

Yeah I saw the new 11 stars.
I didn't think about different 10 stars though.
I wonder what kind of stuff will drop. Agito, for example.

Yeah, right... as if~

[Manta Oyamada]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4LlJtefuheQ&feature=youtu.be

[TaigaUC]

Did I see that right and Ichitarou's katana was only 659 damage?
Probably why they had so much trouble with TD2.

[deahamlet]

Did I see that right and Ichitarou's katana was only 659 damage?
Probably why they had so much trouble with TD2.

What him not even doing anything half the time wasn't a clue already? Or the insane HP, or the crappy stance? Or not using katana combat? Or ahmmm... using shunka wrong half the time?

Even a 1* if he knew how to play better would have been better.

[TaigaUC]

I mean, they may all have been significantly undergeared, not just Ichitarou.
But yeah, he played really badly.

[Kondibon]

First thing I thought of when I saw the rifle PA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=feSQXluAQTw

[Enforcer MKV]

I mean, they may all have been significantly undergeared, not just Ichitarou.
But yeah, he played really badly.

I'm gonna take a stab and say that none of them were trying. At all.

They probably told him to not play as well so it didn't look easy. *cough*

[Shinamori]

Double Cannon! :O

[Kion]

I must be like 99.9% of the users here, I can't read. Could you translate?

I'm not watching the stream or translating anything but PA's, clothes, scratches, EQ. It's pretty safe to assume it's a continuation of the periodic generic inconsequential updates that we've all come to know and love from Segac.

[TaigaUC]

Keyword for lobby action gift:
ばくてんたろう

Looks like we'll get to go to Mothership Oracle soon.
About time.

[Ezodagrom]

Just saw this in bumped.

http://bumped.org/psublog/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/Large-Pyroxene.png

So the SH AQ pyroxene weapons are about as strong as the 685 ATK requirement 10*s and have lower requirements (Amber Seeker requiring just 635 S-ATK?).

[Manta Oyamada]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K_6euzSmKk4&feature=youtu.be

[final_attack]

Keyword for lobby action gift:
ばくてんたろう

Do we have to wait until next maintenance or we can say it now in order to qualify?

[gigawuts]

If I heard correctly, if they beat the challenge, Falz will get an even bigger boost.

Wait what, sega doing events right?

What is this sorcery.

[FireswordRus]

full record
http://www.twitch.tv/fireswordmrm/c/3825717

[Manta Oyamada]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n9SdPeRWBCY&feature=youtu.be

[Macman]

Son of a bitch I just missed everything. :(

[Ezodagrom]

Son of a bitch I just missed everything. :(
The most important parts.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ySLGLfKMJZU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hVn60lRvgdc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MNG_QKNMeXc

[Macman]

The most important part was the innate 250% boost Falz.

[deahamlet]

The most important part was the innate 250% boost Falz.

Which dropped... ahmmm... nothing again. LOL

[MetalDude]

Rare footage of a technic hitting for good damage. Perhaps Il Barta will be our savior.


...Or have a 5 second charge time and be utterly worthless, but the video seems to show otherwise.

[landman]

So... I have not seen Attack on Titan... but that clothes look quite... androgynous to me xD in any case, time to hype some friends who actually follow that anime!

[NoiseHERO]

That Titan room.

[Rehal]

Just saw this in bumped.

http://bumped.org/psublog/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/Large-Pyroxene.png

So the SH AQ pyroxene weapons are about as strong as the 685 ATK requirement 10*s and have lower requirements (Amber Seeker requiring just 635 S-ATK?).

I think you forgot to subtract 40atk from each of them cause lolaffix. They aren't that strong as the 685 atk req. one.

[Crysteon]

They are barely stronger than the current ones. What makes me laugh is the % on the element. The best you can hope on them is that their latents are worth the time spent on hoarding stones, but knowing Sega....such thing wont happen.

[Coatl]

So... I have not seen Attack on Titan... but that clothes look quite... androgynous to me xD in any case, time to hype some friends who actually follow that anime!

They're soldier studs. They're suppose to be androgynous I guess.

[Laxedrane]

If I understand the video correctly grants Il will behave like grants did in psu?

[Ezodagrom]

I think you forgot to subtract 40atk from each of them cause lolaffix. They aren't that strong as the 685 atk req. one.
Indeed...I completely forgot about the +40 from the affixes... ^^;
It seems like they match the ATK of the 640 requirement weapons (like Flamme Brand and such).

[Rien]

The new Sword PA just completely let me down.

Holding Current for swords? Really? Is SEGA that insistent on leaving Hunter as a "sub this but don't main this" class?

[jooozek]

Indeed...I completely forgot about the +40 from the affixes... ^^;
It seems like they match the ATK of the 640 requirement weapons (like Flamme Brand and such).

basically like extended stuff :-?

[gigawuts]

basically like extended stuff :-?

If they give better latents to the weapons it would be an improvement.

But even if they don't this would be your run of the mill number creep shit. Roughly the same atk, but with 10% bonus damage against darkers/dragonkin or the other bad latents instead of 5% JA, etc.

[Arksenth]

Looks like there's a new 11s wand for the next set of AQs after this one. Man, SEGA really likes making wands - not that I'm complaining

opomghaxbbq latents pls

[gigawuts]

Also I just need to say

that 11* knuckle

hnnnnnnnnnnnnnnng

I cannot even express how hilarious it is with the english language that the 11* TD knuckle will be infinitely better in every way that matters than the God Hand.

[Arksenth]

Isn't it funny how when latents first came out, people were all like "pshaw this system is worthless it's not going to affect anything they're too weak", and now latents seem to be more or less one of the primary things to consider in weapon choice?

[gigawuts]

It's more tragic. At the time weapons would be released with clearly better or worse atk, and with such lower stats a difference of 50 mattered. That was a JA latent, since we all had about 1k atk.

Now? Blech. Weapons have such similar atk for such long periods of time that latents are where everyone gets their 5% differences.

edit: That, and, they finally started making latents of consequence. The whole problem with latents was that they were all pretty much just +5% of pre-existing skills. Now we're getting actually useful stuff like -16% PP cost for PAs nfgas;dofas;erhae oh my god i need those knuckles

[MetalDude]

The new Sword PA just completely let me down.

Holding Current for swords? Really? Is SEGA that insistent on leaving Hunter as a "sub this but don't main this" class?

I think they're really big fans of keeping HU main as "Ride Slasher - the class, the game".

[gigawuts]

There's a skill in the files for HU that grants damage resistance while grappling. This might be their last check to see if HU actually needs it. When people say this PA is bullshit they'll finally add it.

And it'll go beneath the burn cure skill, while the fury tree gets Fury Combo Up 2 beneath Fury Stance Up 2. Without a level cap raise or +5 SP CO. That would mean, yes, the fury tree would be so large that you literally could not fill in every damage multiplier skill. It would total 80 SP.

[MetalDude]

God fuck, the HU tree is such a damn jallopi. It's beyond me why they can't add skills as (somewhat) diligently as they did with BR (although RSU2 is a load of trash).

[Arksenth]

SH would actually be moderately challenging and fun if Fury Tree and Gunner S-Roll didn't exist.

[Kondibon]

The whole game would actually be moderately challenging and fun if Fury Tree and Gunner S-Roll didn't exist.
ftfy~

[UnLucky]

And it'll go beneath the burn cure skill, while the fury tree gets Fury Combo Up 2 beneath Fury Stance Up 2. Without a level cap raise or +5 SP CO. That would mean, yes, the fury tree would be so large that you literally could not fill in every damage multiplier skill. It would total 80 SP.

That's fine, just take 5SP out of JA Bonus, it's not as good as the other stuff (barring Fury Crit).

No offense to every other class who can only wish they had a JA Bonus instead of their other trash skills.

[gigawuts]

HU's problem was it was meant to be more balanced at launch - and it honestly was way more balanced. Guard wasn't necessary, but the paper stat gains for going this way versus that way were more balanced.

You didn't gain doubled damage dealt or halved damage taken with one stance or the other yet. The best skills were the stances themselves (at launch) and a couple other skills that were within immediate reach.

Now? Now you have to spend 70 sp in the fury tree to get what gunner gets in 9 sp: offense.

The whole HU tree needs uprooting and reworking. Damage skills need to be condensed and it needs to turn into a layout with the best damage skills being easily reached, and then you choose your extra abilities. Gunner handles this fairly well. SRoll JA and TMG Gear are always within easy reach - after that you choose between Attack PP Restorate, Showtime, Perfect Keeper, Chain Trigger, Automate Deadline, etc. Not all choices are equal, some are more out of the way than others, but they're all actual augmentations to the class and many are good with 1 SP.

Hunter's tree is crammed with unique abilities, but none are worth pursuing because most of them require a full 10 sp to max and 5 or more in worthless skills just to access...and then they're highly situational even when you have them. Don't even get me started on how being a good sub makes it such a bad main.

[MetalDude]

They're so picky about the things they decide to make stupid. Let's go elevate BR and GU from mid tier classes to ridiculously OP with one move/skill but then just nudge wand TE from negligible to subpar and require an 18 SP investment in the process. I'm as excited as I am worried about new technics because while they could address serious casting FO-TE issues, it could just as easily make the class boring and one-dimensional (and we really don't know the gear used in regards to the technic demonstrations). The change to SP requirements on skills as well as frontloading most of the main benefits into the first point were both good changes, but were never retroactively applied (hence why Wand Lovers still demands 10 SP yet Reactor happily sits at 5; the same goes for TB having near-worthless investments past 1SP).

[UnLucky]

Yeah, I can't wait for every other fire tech to become worthless, when I could say at any point up until now that every single fire tech had a use.

[EvilMag]

I get the feeling the reason they broke GU and BR is because they were always getting kicked out of AQ parties.

[gigawuts]

I'd bet the devs like the classes because they're flashy and fun, but realized they were bad so they doubled their damage.

So now we wait for Sakai to go "Hey wait a minute, gunslash hunter is bad!"

New Hunter Skill: Gunslash Mastery
+100% damage while wielding Gunslashes

Suddenly FO/HU using Nero Parasol is best caster in the game.

[MetalDude]

I'm astounded that hasn't been picked up on more, given the heavy lean towards more shooting-dominant PAs being put into the game (seriously, the new one looks like Guilty Break + Additional Bullet).

[UnLucky]

It'd have to be more than +100% damage to make Fo/Hu with Nero Parasol better than Fo/Br with Esca Hermes

[Kondibon]

New Hunter Skill: Gunslash Mastery
+100% damage while wielding Gunslashes

Suddenly FO/HU using Nero Parasol is best caster in the game.I'm not gonna lie, I always thought it would be cool if every class had some sort of Gunslash based skill.

[Kikikiki]

I honestly only want sprinting, maybe as a skill continuous to JR or something, in this game, as it would single-handedly make the game much more awesome.

[Para]

SH would actually be moderately challenging and fun if Fury Tree and Gunner S-Roll didn't exist.

Actually if the fury tree didn't exist, then Gunner S-Roll is fine.

[UnLucky]

Now? Now you have to spend 70 sp in the fury tree to get what gunner gets in 9 sp: offense.

Now I know you don't mean 2x Fury damage is the same as 2x SRoll damage, but the gunslash thing reminded me of something.

Gu/Fo or Te/Gu with Brauvint isn't all that great, even with Sroll+PK. The loss in T-Atk and the time spent flipping between every cast makes it weaker than other casters.

Would you rather spend 50 SP for +50% damage all the time, or 25 SP for +50% damage only after SRoll?

At some point that extra second isn't worth the damage bonus

[gigawuts]

Actually if the fury tree didn't exist, then Gunner S-Roll is fine.

How about if half of the fury tree didn't exist and sroll was 50%?

Can I please has Sega? Please? Pretty pretty pretty please?

Also hunter attacks would all need 50% more base damage because HU weapons themselves are actually pretty okay damage-wise, it's their lack of extra abilities and utility that sucks

edit:

Now I know you don't mean 2x Fury damage is the same as 2x SRoll damage, but the gunslash thing reminded me of something.

Gu/Fo or Te/Gu with Brauvint isn't all that great, even with Sroll+PK. The loss in T-Atk and the time spent flipping between every cast makes it weaker than other casters.

Would you rather spend 50 SP for +50% damage all the time, or 25 SP for +50% damage only after SRoll?

At some point that extra second isn't worth the damage bonus

I think as a main offensive tactic it's bad, but a buff if you're doing it anyway is good. I also think SRoll should be broken down into skills (10 sp for invuln it has right now, 1 sp to use it [requiring 3 sp in dive roll advance], 1 sp to attack during sroll, and 1 sp to get a ja circle after sroll at all) to live up to the Hunter skilltree's glorious and balanced standard.

This is a joke, but it really is what would've happened if gunner used satk

[UnLucky]

I would totally spend SP to make SRoll replace Dive

Then I could condense my weapon palettes upon gaining a 2nd and 3rd PA slot

[gigawuts]

It wouldn't replace dive. You'd just be unlocking an important weapon ability. It's like how swords need gear and just guard and step attack, costing the player damage bonuses to get.

[Kondibon]

The problem for me with the S-roll skills isn't just the damage, but the fact that it basically makes you HAVE to flip or you're missing out on half your damage. If it was like 10-20%, or something less consequential it wouldn't bother me at all. It would be a good damage boost but you wouldn't lose out TOO much by missing it, or choosing to combo into another PA instead.

[Arksenth]

hey guise

i had an idea

what if they made every skill tree like TE's skill tree

[UnLucky]

It wouldn't replace dive. You'd just be unlocking an important weapon ability. It's like how swords need gear and just guard and step attack, costing the player damage bonuses to get.

But Hunter can Guard and Step by default!

[Mysterious-G]

Honestly, TE's skilltree is fine. It's how every skilltree should look like imo. Then everyone would be less powerful, people would have to CHOOSE between skills instead of having everyone run the same setup, and we wouldn't have every skill worth having with a Hunter that's level 65 when it's supposed to go much, much further than that.

[Kondibon]

hey guise

i had an idea

what if they made every skill tree like TE's skill treeI'd prefer if they made them all like Bravers without so many useless prereqs or related skills split between half the tree.

[UnLucky]

Yeah, sure, Techer's tree, the one where you can't get a quarter of the useful skills, and even with 200 skill points it still wouldn't be as strong as another class with only 50

[Mysterious-G]

That's why the others would need to have their skills splitted up better as well as I said. Hunter having access to all fury stance skills without even needing to invest into anything else is bad. In fact, I would go as far as saying it should not be possible to get all fury stance skills for another 50 levels or so, if at all. Make it so that there are multiple "Fury Stance Up" skills of which you could only reach one, but reaching either has you pick entirely different skills first. Now that I would like, and it would bring some diversity.

[MetalDude]

The only stupidly designed part of BR is Shunka. The actual tree is overall very straightforward with only minor garbage in it (again, RSU2 seriously).

[Kondibon]

Yeah, sure, Techer's tree, the one where you can't get a quarter of the useful skills, and even with 200 skill points it still wouldn't be as strong as another class with only 50I'm pretty sure he was joking.


That's why the others would need to have their skills splitted up better as well as I said. Hunter having access to all fury stance skills without even needing to invest into anything else is bad. In fact, I would go as far as saying it should not be possible to get all fury stance skills for another 50 levels or so, if at all. Make it so that there are multiple "Fury Stance Up" skills of which you could only reach one, but reaching either has you pick entirely different skills first. Now that I would like, and it would bring some diversity.
There just needs to be less pure damage bonuses on the hunter tree. I don't think any class should be able to get anywhere near +100% damage on it's own. If the system worked more like Traits in GW2 where you can max up to two trait lines then I'd be all for sprinkling unrelated, but useful stuff in other branches as long as you weren't forced to get them if you weren't in that branch for them.

When I said "useless stuff" I mean the entire right side of the ranger tree, and everything you have to go through for wand gear that has absolutely nothing to do with wand gear.

[RadiantLegend]

So much for hoping for a better sword PA. Guess i'll continue to ride slash my guilty break.

[Chdata]

It makes no sense for skills related to fury stance not to be unlockable with fury stance.

It'd make more sense to reduce the overall bonus if you're thinking that way, or bury the better/strong portion of the bonus under more SP so it takes longer to unlock.

[deahamlet]

The problem for me with the S-roll skills isn't just the damage, but the fact that it basically makes you HAVE to flip or you're missing out on half your damage. If it was like 10-20%, or something less consequential it wouldn't bother me at all. It would be a good damage boost but you wouldn't lose out TOO much by missing it, or choosing to combo into another PA instead.

Oh I'm sorry, you have to roll every single time... how about having to charge every single PA you have and lose the PP and cast if you get flinched, damaged or have to mirage away?

Gunner is 100 times easier and less stupid than fo/te. When I'm bored of pressing down stupid key after stupid key, I go to braver or gunner and man it's so much easier. Only one approaching frustration is fi/hu with all the chasing after damn mobs. I'd still take that over charging every single thing in existence.

At this point, just reduce the loss of dmg to a % based on how far from full you charged the tech. Or simply... Get rid of the damn charging techs mechanic, it's stupid.

Elysion spamming of 3 techs is the dumbest thing in existence.

[LonelyGaruga]

Way to completely miss the point there. You clearly aren't playing Gunner right either if you never use Heel Stab, a (you'll never see this one coming) charging PA. So you have to flip and then charge to use the only move Gunner has that has good mobbing capabilities! And you have the nerve to gripe about charging when Force used to be top tier despite the charging mechanics.

Oh yeah, and Shunka, Hatou, and Kanran all take about a second to "charge", and you can't hold it after that second and get the full effect. No, you have to time it. Yes, charging a tech is so much worse. It's not like crafting recipes exist for many techs that reduce these charge times either. Or that all fire techs can get their charge times halved with an SP investment. After all, PAs don't get those benefits, why should techs?

Oh wait. They do. Oh my god.

Not trying to be mean spirited or anything, but you should seriously think before you go on a rant like that.

[Gardios]

Oh I'm sorry, you have to roll every single time... how about having to charge every single PA you have and lose the PP and cast if you get flinched, damaged or have to mirage away?

...welcome to the mage archetype?

[SakoHaruo]

Fighter PA is just Saber Gear with a larger hit box :x

I'll give them Kudos for it being AOE since Fighter needs something that'll hit everything.

[angrysquid]

it also appears to have zondeelish effects (?)

[TehblackUchiha]

So much for hoping for a better sword PA. Guess i'll continue to ride slash my guilty break.

Just a theory but...

I could be reaching but from there could be more to this PA than what it seems. First off it from the visual effects of it, it looks like the sword drains something from the enemy. It also it has very shit damage compared to the rifle, double saber Pa's and new techs. Low damage like that is something a utility type of photon art has (Fudou Kuchinashi) but I also know that the people showing off all the PA's are not very well equiped and or using stances which greatly affects the damage. Also when the hunter is done draining the enemy the blue energy/glow remains on the sword afterwards. What i think the PA does is drain the enemies health, and your sword becomes like a banish arrow where that damage is multiplied (by x amount) and added your next sword strike or photon art.

Welp if all it does is grapple and strike the enemy multiple times then i still have that cool double saber PA to look forward to...

[cheapgunner]

All I ever wanted from swords was a "Getsuga Tenshou" like pa from them and SEGA has failed me yet again. Il Barta and Grants look promising and that rifle pa looks like a pa that needs a high pp set/build to spam forevermore.

[RadiantLegend]

I kept playing the video over to see what it was.

[Tenlade]

I'm not gonna lie, I always thought it would be cool if every class had some sort of Gunslash based skill.

Still waiting for a force and techer skill that adds your t-atk to gunslash damage so that I can use it for something other then a pp regen pea-shooter

[yoshiblue]

Been waiting for more gunslash related stuff since the launch of the game.

[pkemr4]

All I ever wanted from swords was a "Getsuga Tenshou" like pa from them and SEGA has failed me yet again. Il Barta and Grants look promising and that rifle pa looks like a pa that needs a high pp set/build to spam forevermore.

maybe when theres ever a bleach collab with pso2...

[deahamlet]

Way to completely miss the point there. You clearly aren't playing Gunner right either if you never use Heel Stab, a (you'll never see this one coming) charging PA. So you have to flip and then charge to use the only move Gunner has that has good mobbing capabilities! And you have the nerve to gripe about charging when Force used to be top tier despite the charging mechanics.

Oh yeah, and Shunka, Hatou, and Kanran all take about a second to "charge", and you can't hold it after that second and get the full effect. No, you have to time it. Yes, charging a tech is so much worse. It's not like crafting recipes exist for many techs that reduce these charge times either. Or that all fire techs can get their charge times halved with an SP investment. After all, PAs don't get those benefits, why should techs?

Oh wait. They do. Oh my god.

Not trying to be mean spirited or anything, but you should seriously think before you go on a rant like that.



1. You ARE being mean spirited.
2. You really are going to claim that the only way to mob on gunner is heel stab? I love heel stab cause its animation is fun but ER and Infinite do a decent enough job that "heel stab" is not required in any way shape or form. And I'm sorry, when was it 100 points difference a huge deal in a 12-man fucking MPA? LOL. No, heel stab is not the only freaking tool you have to use. Compare that to fo/te where charging is the only tool for every single thing you do. And to be honest with you I take heel stab charging over Namegid any day of the freaking week. Do YOU play fo/te? --- Also fo/te MUST CHARGE ALL THE TIME, even if you are so crazy as to only heel stab for mobbing that is HALF THE TIME, you don't have to charge for fighting bosses. Unless you're gonna claim heel stab is the only thing to use on a gunner in which case... Wow, dude, what?!?!
3. Again, braver PAs, I love them and timing them is not hard or difficult or even all that crazy. Shunka - tap for 1 sec, let go, keep pressing direction key... I don't even grasp how you can even compare, oh is it because looking on your screen or remembering the timing for the circle is that hard?
4. Most recipes that decrease charge time actually increase PP cost which means you're spending more time with lower HP, wasting time calling a PB, or swapping to a gunslash (or tossing talises around hahahahaha). Fire is hard to spam because the reduce charging time means you spend less time recovering PP, what with recover PP while charging. Also it gets interesting if you use recipes to reduce charge time as they don't all become the same. Honestly reducing PP cost to make techs more spammable is by far more amazing than charge reduction time. I also thought Namegid does not come with a recipe to decrease charging time...

I play gunner, I love heel stab and gunner play doesn't come anywhere near close to how much holding down button happens as fo/te. ER and Infinite do a perfectly good job, not my fault you want to ONLY use the one chargable gunner PA and call everything else subpar.
And honestly braver charge PAs are a million times easier and less annoying than fo/te and I use ONLY charge PAs for katana. Maybe you should have talked about bows, there might be a comparison to fo/te there. One second tap for katana PAs is hilariously nothing like charging techs.

I play gunner, it's easy. I play braver, it's easy (even though a bit suicidish at times). Fo/te is my favourite character but charging everything and losing PP if you get hit or about to get hit (you mirage)... or heaven help you if you pressed W twice too close together... It's ANNOYING and cannot compare to gunner or braver.

Don't get all up in arms that I'm criticising your OP easy-mode classes.

PS: Also that annoying roll people whine about gives you easy-godmode that charging techs does not.

[milranduil]

Any FO has every right to complain because the damage you get out of charged PAs is pathetic compared to GU or BR. 1 Shunka kills a fucking mini-boss, 1 Heel Stab clears like 5-6 mobs. What does 1 Gifoie, Foie, Rafoie do? Uh.... not even close to those. The best thing you get is like Zondeel -> Nafoie/Sazan. You have to jump through hoops just to try to match average damage thrown out by other classes.

[gigawuts]

Well, techs were meant to need charging.

Most PAs weren't meant to require charging.

What you want is double charging. Or longer charge = more damage, up to a certain point. Maybe. I mean, namegid is kind of like this I guess.

[cheapgunner]

maybe when theres ever a bleach collab with pso2...

Having Original Zangetsu as a sword wep and tensa zangetsu as a katana w/ bankai attire.


Any FO has every right to complain because the damage you get out of charged PAs is pathetic compared to GU or BR. 1 Shunka kills a fucking mini-boss, 1 Heel Stab clears like 5-6 mobs. What does 1 Gifoie, Foie, Rafoie do? Uh.... not even close to those. The best thing you get is like Zondeel -> Nafoie/Sazan. You have to jump through hoops just to try to match average damage thrown out by other classes.

Agreed.

Only problem Forces and Techers really have imho is that photon flare and PPC aren't readily available at the start and aren't treated like proper stances. Hunters click a button and there dps jumps, Gu's flip for a massive boost. All FO's get even close to that is a skill that has 30 sec duration and 120 sec cooldown. Same with Te's PPC, but you need to go through the FO's tree in such a way that you skip several critical skills they need dps-wise. Te's weren't even given a complete adjustment for wand lovers. doubling the duration and cooldown is a slap in the face to every melee TE out there when making the cooldown/duration like fury stance would have been better.

/rant end

[TaigaUC]

SEGA probably only tests Fo/Te using Elysion's latent or something.
"Charging? What's that?"

[ShinMaruku]

I think nobody on sega even tests forces. :P

[Sanguine2009]

to be fair, at least the wand lovers change got a very very fast fist pump and the duration/cool down seems more than sufficient in my experience

[milranduil]

It should have been a passive stance like fury/brave/average/etc. No reason for it to be otherwise imo...

[Ratazana]

When and if sega decides to make techs op again people will bitch about how fo is boring and broken.

[strikerhunter]

When and if sega decides to make techs op again people will bitch about how fo is boring and broken.

Hadn't anyone ever learn? People will always bitch about something. "x" class/skill gets buffed, everyone bitches bout other class(es) not getting a buff.

Seriously, who FKen cares when everything still dies in a few seconds.

[pkemr4]

When and if sega decides to make techs op again people will bitch about how fo is boring and broken.

this lmao. people bitched that gunner and braver was weak, so sega buffed gunner/braver and now people are bitching about.

[Zenobia]

this lmao. people bitched that gunner and braver was weak, so sega buffed gunner/braver and now people are bitching about.

Funny thing is Braver wasn't weak the first time it was put in JP's proved that during the Nab 2 TA's throwing down good times like it wasn't nothing so who ever bitched about it does not know how to Braver.

[jcart953]

Seriously, who FKen cares when everything still dies in a few seconds.

^The crybabys care, they seem to be able to squeeze in a complaint regardless of the thread title. I swear it seems to be the same damn people 2....

[deahamlet]

I never personally saw braver as weak, people were just meh cause it wasn't "better than double saber". Then we got OP PAs and 20s invulnerability with a great finisher... AND the damn class works with fury stance. Too much.

I don't care for nerfs or whatevers, but let's not BS like gunner or braver is hard in any way shape or form. I run a hybrid braver with DEX mag which as we all know is "subpar" with one tree braver, one tree hunter... and I do way better in every circumstance than my fo/te. My braver doesn't have the top katana, the top bow, has bad choice of units (Dragon Ex armor, what was I thinking), splits affixes between r-atk and s-atk, only has dark and light weapons... so in almost every way you can think "subpar" on braver, she's it. And she still does better than my fo/te with elemental latent weapons, top rods and talises, 11*s (talis and elysion), great units, max PP possible, 4 force trees and 4 techer trees... ALL THAT MESETA AND REAL MONEY... and subpar braver still does it better.

On top of just how annoying charging everything is. Or how freaking touchy mirage is (why is mirage so touchy as you mirage by mistake easily while that never happens with step and roll?! *confused*).

Oh and forgot... I'm also much more squishy on fo/te that every other class combination (maybe cause I be newman for best dps which I'm still not best dps).

I cannot possibly feel any sympathy for the "pain" of charging heel stab, the "pain" of katana charging PAs... or any other pain from gunners or bravers.

I could play like a tool on br/hu or gu/ra and STILL survive better and kill better than optimum fo/te. And it costs me less. I've spent a lot more resources on fo/te than even my fi/hu who has a saber in each element, and daggers in most elements.

[Ratazana]

So? Every game has something that sucks. No one is forcing you to use it.

Sega gave us a fucking killing machine in a game about killing shit with style. Rejoice!

Leave force behind until sega decides to make it op again and just have fun with your braver.

You talk about challenge, but the game is as hard as you make it. Push yourself harder if you think it's too easy: kill more shit faster.

[Chdata]

Despite the fact that my friend top scores all the time in TD with a red katana I still prefer GuHu ;p

Even without my guld mila.

I guess melee classes just aren't my thing.

[deahamlet]

So? Every game has something that sucks. No one is forcing you to use it.

Sega gave us a fucking killing machine in a game about killing shit with style. Rejoice!

Leave force behind until sega decides to make it op again and just have fun with your braver.

You talk about challenge, but the game is as hard as you make it. Push yourself harder if you think it's too easy: kill more shit faster.

But... but... I love casters *sad face*. I made a character for every main class so I have choices and am never too frustrated/bored. But casters are my main love, I can't help but feel bad for the poor classes.

[Edson Drake]

So? Every game has something that sucks. No one is forcing you to use it.

Sega gave us a fucking killing machine in a game about killing shit with style. Rejoice!

Leave force behind until sega decides to make it op again and just have fun with your braver.

You talk about challenge, but the game is as hard as you make it. Push yourself harder if you think it's too easy: kill more shit faster.

I don't have anything against flavor of the week(or in this case, months) class approach that Sega seems to be taking, but if there's something that bothers me in games is seeing too much of the same thing all the time.

In this case, it's Braver, Gunner, Braver, Gunner and repeat. Everywhere, myself included.

I know that true balance is impossible, but we really need diversity to make the game more interesting.

[Alma]

once i been told by my team mate that to play GU/HU or BR/HU, you need a "skill" more than if you play FO or TE

well im not denny the part of actual dodging/blocking/counter and timing the shunka in the case of BR...

but when i pointed out that with 1 measly spammed shunka and invincibility you can still actually kill a boss while for FO or TE they need to do ALOT more than that, they frantically denied it and told me FO or TE class just need to spam (charge) with 1 button...

and then they said FO or TE is easy mode...

i guess these mentality are shared with sega staff and that's why other class got MASSIVE buff while they neglect tech class and sometime even a NERF...

its because they think tech class is easy mode :-?

[LonelyGaruga]

Don't get all up in arms that I'm criticising your OP easy-mode classes.

I was going to reply seriously, breaking down your post bit by bit, until I read this. I have somewhere between 1300-1400 hours on Fo/Te and 300 hours on Te/Hu. They're the only classes I've played for a respectable length of time. I have never touched Shunka during my time playing Braver. I never played Gunner. In other words, I have only played what are arguably the worst classes right now.

You have just assumed exactly the opposite, with no actual evidence to support it. I contradicted you because I saw a Force wrongfully complaining about their class. I didn't say a word to you because I'm "defending" Gunner or Braver. I fully recognize that they're overpowered right now. But Force is not underpowered because it has to charge techs. Force used to be top tier, were you even around for that? I have absolutely nothing to go on for how long you've been playing, but if you were around when Force was the de facto best mobbing class in the game, which was where it sat when I first began playing, I seriously doubt you'd be complaining about this right now. If you were, in fact, playing back then, I have absolutely no intention of furthering this, as you should know firsthand that Force's flaws are absolutely, undeniably not part of having to charge techs.

That isn't to say that charging isn't a problem for Force now, but that has nothing to do with charging itself. The problem comes from the fact that the benefits from charging aren't worth it right now. Force does not do enough damage. That's the real problem. It doesn't do enough damage to justify charging in comparison to the rest of the classes. And that isn't because charging is inherently a flawed mechanic. It's because Force can't sub Hunter for Fury Stance buffs. It's because Force doesn't have a skill that doubles its damage after throwing a Talis. It's because Force doesn't have a tech that's as overpowered as Shunka Shunran. It's because Force now struggles to 1-shot enemies before other classes could even hit them, whereas it used to be able to do exactly that. It's because Force isn't getting the love it needs from Sega to keep up with other classes. And I'm willing to bet that others with more experience than I in any non-Gunner/Braver class could construct a similar argument for their own class suffering.

None of that, not one of those things, is a flaw inherent to charging, and to complain about such a mechanic as if it was the bane of the class is the epitome of a bad Force player. Now, I am sorry that you hate charging. You know what you should do? Play a different class. If you can't appreciate the virtues of techs, you're better off quitting the class entirely. Techs are meant, with few exceptions, to be charged, and if you have a problem with that, play a different class instead of griping about it.

EDIT: OK yeah after reading your posts from while I was typing this up, you clearly lack experience to judge here. Not even trying to insult, it's just, you clearly haven't been playing long enough if you're complaining about these things. They're negligible at best when you get better with Force.

[deahamlet]

once i been told by my team mate that to play GU/HU or BR/HU, you need a "skill" more than if you play FO or TE

well im not denny the part of actual dodging/blocking/counter and timing the shunka in the case of BR...

but when i pointed out that with 1 measly spammed shunka and invincibility you can still actually kill a boss while for FO or TE they need to do ALOT more than that, they frantically denied it and told me FO or TE class just need to spam (charge) with 1 button...

and then they said FO or TE is easy mode...

i guess these mentality are shared with sega staff and that's why other class got MASSIVE buff while they neglect tech class and sometime even a NERF...

its because they think tech class is easy mode :-?

My boyfriend claimed that FO/TE was OP and "easy". He was playing fighter/hunter at the time and his excuse for me being an aggro biatch was that FO/TE are very strong and also don't need to chase.

Fast forward to him leveling fo/te because he always likes melee/caster combo and he found out just how OP and "fun" charging techs are. He changed his tune like nothing. He thought he was dying as fi/hu, hahaha welcome to fo/te (and he's at least human not newman).

We both leveled gu/ra and br/hu as well and definitely the consensus is that fo/te is the hardest to play and the rewards for it are subpar while gu/ra and br/hu are OP as all hell.

I guess everyone who doesn't play fo/te must think they are like previous games where I heard they were pretty good.

[Macman]

At one point FO was easy mode.

Now it's just tedious mode.

[milranduil]

I was going to reply seriously, breaking down your post bit by bit, until I read this. I have somewhere between 1300-1400 hours on Fo/Te and 300 hours on Te/Hu. They're the only classes I've played for a respectable length of time. I have never touched Shunka during my time playing Braver. I never played Gunner. In other words, I have only played what are arguably the worst classes right now.

You have just assumed exactly the opposite, with no actual evidence to support it. I contradicted you because I saw a Force wrongfully complaining about their class. I didn't say a word to you because I'm "defending" Gunner or Braver. I fully recognize that they're overpowered right now. But Force is not underpowered because it has to charge techs. Force used to be top tier, were you even around for that? I have absolutely nothing to go on for how long you've been playing, but if you were around when Force was the de facto best mobbing class in the game, which was where it sat when I first began playing, I seriously doubt you'd be complaining about this right now. If you were, in fact, playing back then, I have absolutely no intention of furthering this, as you should know firsthand that Force's flaws are absolutely, undeniably not part of having to charge techs.

That isn't to say that charging isn't a problem for Force now, but that has nothing to do with charging itself. The problem comes from the fact that the benefits from charging aren't worth it right now. Force does not do enough damage. That's the real problem. It doesn't do enough damage to justify charging in comparison to the rest of the classes. And that isn't because charging is inherently a flawed mechanic. It's because Force can't sub Hunter for Fury Stance buffs. It's because Force doesn't have a skill that doubles its damage after throwing a Talis. It's because Force doesn't have a tech that's as overpowered as Shunka Shunran. It's because Force now struggles to 1-shot enemies before other classes could even hit them, whereas it used to be able to do exactly that. It's because Force isn't getting the love it needs from Sega to keep up with other classes. And I'm willing to bet that others with more experience than I in any non-Gunner/Braver class could construct a similar argument for their own class suffering.

None of that, not one of those things, is a flaw inherent to charging, and to complain about such a mechanic as if it was the bane of the class is the epitome of a bad Force player. Now, I am sorry that you hate charging. You know what you should do? Play a different class. If you can't appreciate the virtues of techs, you're better off quitting the class entirely. Techs are meant, with few exceptions, to be charged, and if you have a problem with that, play a different class instead of griping about it.

EDIT: OK yeah after reading your posts from while I was typing this up, you clearly lack experience to judge here. Not even trying to insult, it's just, you clearly haven't been playing long enough if you're complaining about these things. They're negligible at best when you get better with Force.

You are blatantly ignorant if you think charge time is not *part* of the problem here. Especially for FO/TE considering essentially every other class combo has access to step attack meaning faster travel (fk Aiming Shot cancel gtfo), you're already going to be behind simply because of that. Throw on top of that the fact that FO/TE has to charge everything for a minimum of 1s besides fire techs (and let's face it if you're playing fire FO/TE... yeah don't), yeah you are useless. Then we can talk about Elysion, but then you need to be in melee range of stuff to Zondeel which isn't happening if again you don't have step attack to keep up.

[deahamlet]

I was going to reply seriously, breaking down your post bit by bit, until I read this. I have somewhere between 1300-1400 hours on Fo/Te and 300 hours on Te/Hu. They're the only classes I've played for a respectable length of time. I have never touched Shunka during my time playing Braver. I never played Gunner. In other words, I have only played what are arguably the worst classes right now.

You have just assumed exactly the opposite, with no actual evidence to support it. I contradicted you because I saw a Force wrongfully complaining about their class. I didn't say a word to you because I'm "defending" Gunner or Braver. I fully recognize that they're overpowered right now. But Force is not underpowered because it has to charge techs. Force used to be top tier, were you even around for that? I have absolutely nothing to go on for how long you've been playing, but if you were around when Force was the de facto best mobbing class in the game, which was where it sat when I first began playing, I seriously doubt you'd be complaining about this right now. If you were, in fact, playing back then, I have absolutely no intention of furthering this, as you should know firsthand that Force's flaws are absolutely, undeniably not part of having to charge techs.

That isn't to say that charging isn't a problem for Force now, but that has nothing to do with charging itself. The problem comes from the fact that the benefits from charging aren't worth it right now. Force does not do enough damage. That's the real problem. It doesn't do enough damage to justify charging in comparison to the rest of the classes. And that isn't because charging is inherently a flawed mechanic. It's because Force can't sub Hunter for Fury Stance buffs. It's because Force doesn't have a skill that doubles its damage after throwing a Talis. It's because Force doesn't have a tech that's as overpowered as Shunka Shunran. It's because Force now struggles to 1-shot enemies before other classes could even hit them, whereas it used to be able to do exactly that. It's because Force isn't getting the love it needs from Sega to keep up with other classes. And I'm willing to bet that others with more experience than I in any non-Gunner/Braver class could construct a similar argument for their own class suffering.

None of that, not one of those things, is a flaw inherent to charging, and to complain about such a mechanic as if it was the bane of the class is the epitome of a bad Force player. Now, I am sorry that you hate charging. You know what you should do? Play a different class. If you can't appreciate the virtues of techs, you're better off quitting the class entirely. Techs are meant, with few exceptions, to be charged, and if you have a problem with that, play a different class instead of griping about it.

EDIT: OK yeah after reading your posts from while I was typing this up, you clearly lack experience to judge here. Not even trying to insult, it's just, you clearly haven't been playing long enough if you're complaining about these things. They're negligible at best when you get better with Force.

So you haven't even played gunner and yet you are one to talk about how it does or does not stack against fo/te? And how heel stab is somehow comparable to charging every tech?!
You don't even use shunka where while you eat damage, you don't LOSE the PA if you get hit and continue to proceed with attacking the mob WHILE USING IT... you don't even know how you can be in middle of bloody sarabande and get "hit" and yet not actually get interrupted or take damage and get to peacefully finish your PA.. But can talk about how charging on force is perfectly fine?

You don't have the experience to compare. The charging of techs was introduced because everyone cried that force did too much damage. It was not supposed to be this way, at least get your facts straight. I also been told that none of the PSO1 and PSU had charging techs either. Charging techs are part of the annoyance I have with force and how it aggravates survivability versus PP; but that is the very icing on the cake of the split-element skill trees, low DPS and low survivability with no longer having any upsides.

I play other classes. Telling someone that all becomes better when you "learn to play" is the last resource of having no real argument.

[TaigaUC]

"Meseta towels" huh. Perfect for Arksenth!

[Arksenth]

"Meseta towels" huh. Perfect for Arksenth!

Ohohohohohoho!

All of the cliques and their cafeteria tables are talking about me!

It's like I'm the most popular cheerleader in all of PSO-World High!

My chant goes like this: "Poor People Suck" - I'm screaming it at the top of my human pyramid while doing a backflip!

Poor people!

[strikerhunter]

Ohohohohohoho!

All of the cliques and their cafeteria tables are talking about me!

It's like I'm the most popular cheerleader in all of PSO-World High!

My chant goes like this: "Poor People Suck" - I'm screaming it at the top of my human pyramid while doing a backflip!

Poor people!

Oh come on now, I know you can do better than that.

[Arksenth]

Oh come on now, I know you can do better than that.

Don't worry, what I lack in charm and grace, I make up for being the school doorknob.

Everyone gets a turn!

Even you, you poor person!

[milranduil]

Ohohohohohoho!

All of the cliques and their cafeteria tables are talking about me!

It's like I'm the most popular cheerleader in all of PSO-World High!

My chant goes like this: "Poor People Suck" - I'm screaming it at the top of my human pyramid while doing a backflip!

Poor people!

My my you trust others to hoist you to the top of a human pyramid? I see I see... :wacko:

[TaigaUC]

I could swear the pantyhose was listed as AC scratch in the preview videos.
Not complaining though.

[Aine]

Since I don't see it mentioned anywhere, Sacrifice Bite (the new Sword PA) is an attack drain. After using the PA you get a bonus to damage (unclear if the bonus remains if you switch weapons), the longer you stabbed the enemy the longer the bonus lasts.

[Arksenth]

My my you trust others to hoist you to the top of a human pyramid? I see I see... :wacko:

By human pyramid, I mean I kick them in the heads until they're unconscious, stack them on top of each other in a gruesome piles of corpses, and then do my cheers on top of that pile.

So yes, I trust you all!

Who wants to volunteer to be part of my human pyramid!

[strikerhunter]

By human pyramid, I mean I kick them in the heads until they're unconscious, stack them on top of each other in a gruesome piles of corpses, and then do my cheers on top of that pile.

So yes, I trust you all!

Who wants to volunteer to be part of my human pyramid!

Can I wait until a Zombie Apocalypse?

[Rien]

Swords have way too much delay as-is. Charging Sword Gear is incredibly painful versus one mob/boss, Over End got changed to three swings instead of the signature overhead single swing, ungeared Ride Slasher is just crap and the only thing I get to look forward to is Rising Edge 16.

We don't need a pre-charge unless it fills the damn gear to full.

[gigawuts]

Ride slasher charges fairly fast, and is obscenely good at filling gear if you can land the hits.

Just a tip, that's something I do...when I have a HU tree with sword gear which I haven't in a while.

[milranduil]

Bumped might not get updated, so I'm supplying everyone with first few EQ times.

White Day 2: 20:00 JST -> 6:00 AM EST (5 hours from now)
TD: 22:00 JST -> 8:00 AM EST (7 hours from now)

[strikerhunter]

Bumped might not get updated, so I'm supplying everyone with first few EQ times.

White Day 2: 20:00 JST -> 6:00 AM EST (5 hours from now)
TD: 22:00 JST -> 8:00 AM EST (7 hours from now)

6 and 8 est? Well FK me being the western coast.

[HBK666]

Bumped might not get updated, so I'm supplying everyone with first few EQ times.

White Day 2: 20:00 JST -> 6:00 AM EST (5 hours from now)
TD: 22:00 JST -> 8:00 AM EST (7 hours from now)

I pray to god we get these same eq's later tonight (est) time.^^;

[TehblackUchiha]

Since I don't see it mentioned anywhere, Sacrifice Bite (the new Sword PA) is an attack drain. After using the PA you get a bonus to damage (unclear if the bonus remains if you switch weapons), the longer you stabbed the enemy the longer the bonus lasts.

hahaha so my theory was right in a way, i wonder though since the accumulated damage boost was not shown in the video, how much will it give. If you drain about 10000 hp from an enemy will it add 10000 to every attack for about 10-15 seconds? The damage looked relatively shit but so did shunka when they showcased it.

[strikerhunter]

lol now I wonder how will it work on bosses since you get really grab bosses.

[TehblackUchiha]

it might work like other PA's where if you try and grapple a boss some blue energy ball come out of nowhere and act as a grapple or it won't work at all xD

[LonelyGaruga]

You are blatantly ignorant if you think charge time is not *part* of the problem here.

Third paragraph, first line please. Read the rest if you can be bothered to.


Especially for FO/TE considering essentially every other class combo has access to step attack meaning faster travel (fk Aiming Shot cancel gtfo), you're already going to be behind simply because of that.

If that's a problem, sub Fighter or Braver instead of Techer. Run Te/Fi for Elysion builds. This mainly only applies when you actually need to travel quickly, which isn't always the case. I've only found it warranted in TAs, where /Fi and /Br are better in the first place.


Throw on top of that the fact that FO/TE has to charge everything for a minimum of 1s besides fire techs (and let's face it if you're playing fire FO/TE... yeah don't), yeah you are useless.

This isn't even factually correct, let alone as an argument. Every tech that gets a crafting recipe to reduce charge times also gets a charge time below 1s. That alone doesn't make them viable because the damage still isn't worth it. And how are you useless because you're slower at traveling? TD, most if not all EQs, AQs, XQs, all of those place far less emphasis on traveling than TAs, to a point it's inconsequential how fast you travel unless your MPA sucks for TD or you really want to gather as many crystals as possible for whatever reason.

You know what would be a lot more useful? If you could actually wipe out mobs you Zondeel with a single shot. I'm sure better geared Forces are outputting better damage than I am, but right now, I barely fall short of three-shotting Goldorahdas in SH with my Fo/Te using Nafoie off a Talis. And this is with a little over 2K T-ATK, though the multipliers backing it could be better (FM1 at 5, FM2 at 1) If I could three shot them, or even better, two shot, I could wipe out large groups of them with Zondeel > 2-3 Nafoies and be able to maintain that for an entire spawn group using PP Convert and be raring to go for the next wave once the cooldown ends. I wouldn't simply be support, struggling to actually do anything once I do Zondeel all those mobs together besides Gifoie flinch lock mantises. But I can't output that kind of damage. And that has nothing to do with my charge time, or my travel capabilities. That is solely a flaw in my damage. Fo/Fi and Fo/Br could do better damage, but then PP Convert is lost, and Nafoie burns through PP too rapidly to be used for this strategy without PP Convert. Maybe, if I had a fire tree, I could make this happen. But I don't. And I don't intend to spend AC for it.


Then we can talk about Elysion, but then you need to be in melee range of stuff to Zondeel which isn't happening if again you don't have step attack to keep up.

Zondeel with Elysion, genius. Next you'll tell me Gunners use Reverse Tap to help prevent Goldorahdas from hitting towers. That's not how any Elysion user should play. To even think of that is indicative of simply not understanding what Elysion is used for. It's really ironic that, with how obsessed some people are over Elysion on this forum, raving about the uses of it, you somehow managed to miss that someone using Elysion is never going to get in range for Zondeel, never intends to, and never needs to. You call me ignorant in the first line of your post, then proceed to tell me an Elysion user wants to get in range to use Zondeel. Give me a break, that's ridiculous.


So you haven't even played gunner and yet you are one to talk about how it does or does not stack against fo/te? And how heel stab is somehow comparable to charging every tech?!
You don't even use shunka where while you eat damage, you don't LOSE the PA if you get hit and continue to proceed with attacking the mob WHILE USING IT... you don't even know how you can be in middle of bloody sarabande and get "hit" and yet not actually get interrupted or take damage and get to peacefully finish your PA.. But can talk about how charging on force is perfectly fine?

You don't have the experience to compare.

I don't have the firsthand experience to compare. That does not mean I don't have the knowledge or secondhand experience. The person I play with most plays both Gunner and Braver, along with Force. I play with Gunners and Bravers every day because they're everywhere. I see people tanking hits all the time. I tank hits all the time while leveling up Hunter on my Te/Hu. You know something? Not all classes have the same strengths. Why should Force or Techer get the ability to withstand attacks while charging? No class has that! You're getting flinched if you get hit whether you're a Braver preparing Shunka Shunran, a Gunner preparing Heel Stab, a Hunter preparing Ride Slasher, or a Fighter that wants more range on Deadly Archer. You get hit while charging, you lose it. That's how it works for all of them. So what if some attacks have super armor for those classes, and Force and Techer don't? They shouldn't get it! They aren't supposed to need it!

Where do you get off on wanting techs to get super armor? That tells me straight up that you don't know how to play Force or Techer if you actually feel the class needs it. You pull out some of the most potent PAs of the classes you name without ever mentioning that numerous other, not-so-good PAs also have these traits. Shunka Shunran is not good because it has super armor. Bloody Sarabande is not good because it has guard frames. Bloody Sarabande is hardly even worth mentioning because it's Fighter's best mobbing PA, which it really needs given how laughably bad at mobbing it would otherwise be.


The charging of techs was introduced because everyone cried that force did too much damage. It was not supposed to be this way, at least get your facts straight. I also been told that none of the PSO1 and PSU had charging techs either.

I've heard only bad things about Force in the endgames of those two games, so this is moot. Not to mention they aren't even comparable with each other, let alone PSO2. They're all Phantasy Star games, but it's a lot like saying magic is broken in every FF game because it was broken in FFVI (of course, FFVI was broken in general, but that's not really the point).


Charging techs are part of the annoyance I have with force and how it aggravates survivability versus PP; but that is the very icing on the cake of the split-element skill trees, low DPS and low survivability with no longer having any upsides.

None of which were an actual factor when Force was top tier. You called me out on experience, but you're rapidly making it appear that you genuinely have no idea what Force was like when it was top tier.


I play other classes. Telling someone that all becomes better when you "learn to play" is the last resource of having no real argument.

Well gee, I'm not really sure what I'm supposed to say when I read you're having trouble with randomly using Mirage Escape when you don't mean to. I'd suggest getting a repair or replacement for whatever you use to play, but then, you say it doesn't happen for classes that have Dive Roll/Step for their dodge action. You complain about what I said, but saying you just need to get more comfortable with the class is the most polite thing I could chalk this up to.

And let me make this perfectly clear: I am by no means suggesting Force is balanced, nor did I ever say it it was. I am by no means suggesting that Braver/Gunner are not broken, nor did I ever say they weren't. I am by no means suggesting that Force's advantages allow it to keep up with those two classes, nor did I ever say that they did. But, I will reiterate, those classes are broken. Why should Force be buffed to match them, and only Force, when they outclass more than just Force? Why talk like it's only Force that has a problem, when it's more than just Force that is underpowered compared to those classes?

I seriously don't get why I have to keep reiterating this. I run into this way too often. Too often do I see people putting words in other's mouths during disagreements. You could sum up half my post as "I didn't say X, I said Y". Please, read my post carefully, and instead of trying to justify your stance, look at the shortcomings of other classes. I brought up the charging PAs in the first post because they are PAs that are good despite the charging mechanics. Why? Because despite Heel Stab requiring a flip and a charge, its benefits are completely worth it. That is what Force's problem is. It isn't super armor, it isn't frailty, it isn't the trees being split into different elements. It's that, for these flaws, they are no longer worth the benefits. The benefits need to be buffed. Damage buffs, charge speed buffs, AoE buffs, plenty of options, but not pointless buffs like granting super armor during the attack. That is not what techs are for, and to ask for it is essentially admitting that you are a bad Force, because it's actually a problem for you.

In other words, I have every reason to believe that you are indeed a bad Force, because you are attributing its flaws to something that was never a problem in the past. Techs do not need super armor, they do not need guard frames, they do not need any of that melee stuff. Giving a tech super armor is by no means going to make them suddenly good again, which seems to be what you're suggesting by mentioning Bloody Sarabande. What a Force needs in its techs is better damage, better charge time, lower PP costs, better AoE, stuff like that. You have a problem with getting hit all the time? Use a Talis. You shouldn't even touch Rods in the first place outside of a few exceptions, and you shouldn't touch Wands at all if you're going Fo/Te, since you can't even equip Elysion without being better off as a Te/Fo or Te/Fi. Talis Tech Bonus has made Talis the best source of damage for casting, all else equal (save T-ATK).

[Arksenth]

Zondeel with Elysion, genius. Next you'll tell me Gunners use Reverse Tap to help prevent Goldorahdas from hitting towers. That's not how any Elysion user should play. To even think of that is indicative of simply not understanding what Elysion is used for. It's really ironic that, with how obsessed some people are over Elysion on this forum, raving about the uses of it, you somehow managed to miss that someone using Elysion is never going to get in range for Zondeel, never intends to, and never needs to. You call me ignorant in the first line of your post, then proceed to tell me an Elysion user wants to get in range to use Zondeel. Give me a break, that's ridiculous.

Someone doesn't have a 50 Element Elysion to two-shot Goldrahdas with Wand Gear!

[LonelyGaruga]

Oh my dear god, I am terribly sorry. It appears that, in my hasty typing, I foolishly neglected to specify that a casting Elysion user has absolutely no business doing that. Melee Techers and their gorgeous wand gear powered exploding Elysions can go right on ahead with their fantastic Zondeel shenanigans. Put that sword model to good use!

[UnLucky]

Yeah, it's not like Zondeeling 10 mobs together would benefit Sazan and its tiny AoE yet large damage at all, nope.

Also hey, I remember you. Glad to see you've stuck by Force for a year

[deahamlet]

Third paragraph, first line please. Read the rest if you can be bothered to.



If that's a problem, sub Fighter or Braver instead of Techer. Run Te/Fi for Elysion builds. This mainly only applies when you actually need to travel quickly, which isn't always the case. I've only found it warranted in TAs, where /Fi and /Br are better in the first place.



This isn't even factually correct, let alone as an argument. Every tech that gets a crafting recipe to reduce charge times also gets a charge time below 1s. That alone doesn't make them viable because the damage still isn't worth it. And how are you useless because you're slower at traveling? TD, most if not all EQs, AQs, XQs, all of those place far less emphasis on traveling than TAs, to a point it's inconsequential how fast you travel unless your MPA sucks for TD or you really want to gather as many crystals as possible for whatever reason.

You know what would be a lot more useful? If you could actually wipe out mobs you Zondeel with a single shot. I'm sure better geared Forces are outputting better damage than I am, but right now, I barely fall short of three-shotting Goldorahdas in SH with my Fo/Te using Nafoie off a Talis. And this is with a little over 2K T-ATK, though the multipliers backing it could be better (FM1 at 5, FM2 at 1) If I could three shot them, or even better, two shot, I could wipe out large groups of them with Zondeel > 2-3 Nafoies and be able to maintain that for an entire spawn group using PP Convert and be raring to go for the next wave once the cooldown ends. I wouldn't simply be support, struggling to actually do anything once I do Zondeel all those mobs together besides Gifoie flinch lock mantises. But I can't output that kind of damage. And that has nothing to do with my charge time, or my travel capabilities. That is solely a flaw in my damage. Fo/Fi and Fo/Br could do better damage, but then PP Convert is lost, and Nafoie burns through PP too rapidly to be used for this strategy without PP Convert. Maybe, if I had a fire tree, I could make this happen. But I don't. And I don't intend to spend AC for it.



Zondeel with Elysion, genius. Next you'll tell me Gunners use Reverse Tap to help prevent Goldorahdas from hitting towers. That's not how any Elysion user should play. To even think of that is indicative of simply not understanding what Elysion is used for. It's really ironic that, with how obsessed some people are over Elysion on this forum, raving about the uses of it, you somehow managed to miss that someone using Elysion is never going to get in range for Zondeel, never intends to, and never needs to. You call me ignorant in the first line of your post, then proceed to tell me an Elysion user wants to get in range to use Zondeel. Give me a break, that's ridiculous.



I don't have the firsthand experience to compare. That does not mean I don't have the knowledge or secondhand experience. The person I play with most plays both Gunner and Braver, along with Force. I play with Gunners and Bravers every day because they're everywhere. I see people tanking hits all the time. I tank hits all the time while leveling up Hunter on my Te/Hu. You know something? Not all classes have the same strengths. Why should Force or Techer get the ability to withstand attacks while charging? No class has that! You're getting flinched if you get hit whether you're a Braver preparing Shunka Shunran, a Gunner preparing Heel Stab, a Hunter preparing Ride Slasher, or a Fighter that wants more range on Deadly Archer. You get hit while charging, you lose it. That's how it works for all of them. So what if some attacks have super armor for those classes, and Force and Techer don't? They shouldn't get it! They aren't supposed to need it!

Where do you get off on wanting techs to get super armor? That tells me straight up that you don't know how to play Force or Techer if you actually feel the class needs it. You pull out some of the most potent PAs of the classes you name without ever mentioning that numerous other, not-so-good PAs also have these traits. Shunka Shunran is not good because it has super armor. Bloody Sarabande is not good because it has guard frames. Bloody Sarabande is hardly even worth mentioning because it's Fighter's best mobbing PA, which it really needs given how laughably bad at mobbing it would otherwise be.



I've heard only bad things about Force in the endgames of those two games, so this is moot. Not to mention they aren't even comparable with each other, let alone PSO2. They're all Phantasy Star games, but it's a lot like saying magic is broken in every FF game because it was broken in FFVI (of course, FFVI was broken in general, but that's not really the point).



None of which were an actual factor when Force was top tier. You called me out on experience, but you're rapidly making it appear that you genuinely have no idea what Force was like when it was top tier.



Well gee, I'm not really sure what I'm supposed to say when I read you're having trouble with randomly using Mirage Escape when you don't mean to. I'd suggest getting a repair or replacement for whatever you use to play, but then, you say it doesn't happen for classes that have Dive Roll/Step for their dodge action. You complain about what I said, but saying you just need to get more comfortable with the class is the most polite thing I could chalk this up to.

And let me make this perfectly clear: I am by no means suggesting Force is balanced, nor did I ever say it it was. I am by no means suggesting that Braver/Gunner are not broken, nor did I ever say they weren't. I am by no means suggesting that Force's advantages allow it to keep up with those two classes, nor did I ever say that they did. But, I will reiterate, those classes are broken. Why should Force be buffed to match them, and only Force, when they outclass more than just Force? Why talk like it's only Force that has a problem, when it's more than just Force that is underpowered compared to those classes?

I seriously don't get why I have to keep reiterating this. I run into this way too often. Too often do I see people putting words in other's mouths during disagreements. You could sum up half my post as "I didn't say X, I said Y". Please, read my post carefully, and instead of trying to justify your stance, look at the shortcomings of other classes. I brought up the charging PAs in the first post because they are PAs that are good despite the charging mechanics. Why? Because despite Heel Stab requiring a flip and a charge, its benefits are completely worth it. That is what Force's problem is. It isn't super armor, it isn't frailty, it isn't the trees being split into different elements. It's that, for these flaws, they are no longer worth the benefits. The benefits need to be buffed. Damage buffs, charge speed buffs, AoE buffs, plenty of options, but not pointless buffs like granting super armor during the attack. That is not what techs are for, and to ask for it is essentially admitting that you are a bad Force, because it's actually a problem for you.

In other words, I have every reason to believe that you are indeed a bad Force, because you are attributing its flaws to something that was never a problem in the past. Techs do not need super armor, they do not need guard frames, they do not need any of that melee stuff. Giving a tech super armor is by no means going to make them suddenly good again, which seems to be what you're suggesting by mentioning Bloody Sarabande. What a Force needs in its techs is better damage, better charge time, lower PP costs, better AoE, stuff like that. You have a problem with getting hit all the time? Use a Talis. You shouldn't even touch Rods in the first place outside of a few exceptions, and you shouldn't touch Wands at all if you're going Fo/Te, since you can't even equip Elysion without being better off as a Te/Fo or Te/Fi. Talis Tech Bonus has made Talis the best source of damage for casting, all else equal (save T-ATK).

I don't want super armor. Those other classes get great PAs, much more pleasant skill trees, crazy boosts AND far too many protections from being flinched and easier PP restoration. I don't think super armor will help anything. But when other classes with charge PAs get better benefits and better DPS, those classes ARE BETTER.

And now who is asking for force to be buffed to gunner/braver levels? Make up your mind, do you want force buffed or not; don't tell me in one paragraph that you think I'm crazy for wanting force as strong as gunners/braver (I don't actually, I want some UPSIDE for having to charge)... and in another paragraph that you want better tech damage, lower charge times etc. You want buffs or you don't.

I personally have only been annoyed by charging since it no longer has an upside. I didn't play since the beginning of the game, I played a few months in VH, but then SH came out and it simply became "annoyance with no upside" for force. I hate te/hu, I hate wands and only touch elysion (as te/fo or te/fi caster, not smacking). I prefer rods but they are the suicidal weapon of choice so lately it's been talises.

I'm sorry not everyone is super-force never getting touched or having to mirage in the middle of a 60 PP tech and losing all that PP for no reason. Not convinced that it's my keyboard causing random mirage, maybe you like to be like a frozen statue when you charge and don't move, but everyone I know as force talks about how trigger happy mirage is versus step/roll.

Don't put words in my mouth. I was giving you more examples of upsides other classes have during charging and during the actual PAs. They get upsides and a long list of them... we don't anymore, that's that. Just because you got more time in the era of one-shot mobs with one tech doesn't mean this era isn't bad for fo/te.

Easier to get into how you play better... and yet somehow you still have a litany of things you want fo/te to do better... So I guess playing better doesn't make fo/te suck less afterall. *rolls eyes*

[Rien]

Er, with the new force nukes we could say these buffs are a start.

[UnLucky]

Let's see, I want to address some of this.

Charging back then was totally worth it because:

PP regen
Mobs were far away
Mobs had low HP
Uncharged techs are trash

1. Now Gunner and Braver have all-purpose, low-cost PAs with high damage, AoE, and mobility. Plus increased PP regen on normal attacks. Yet charging for 2-7PP/s without popping a cooldown does not come close to covering the cost of a single tech, which does not come close to the damage of said PAs, which can regain the majority of their cost in one or two regular hits between uses.

2. Mobs approach faster, melee classes can approach faster, Gunner and Braver have more range. Casters got a risky 6s charge tech that deals less damage than an instantly activating PA, or a major PP dump that costs more and deals less than PAs and it can easily miss. Now that travel time is greatly reduced, they gain a meager damage bonus to thrown cards, taking even longer before charging a weak tech that may not even be ready by the time the enemy is nearby or dead.

3. Force always had low damage, but great AoE. Though the weak lv50 mobs died to capped out characters in one shot regardless. They still suffered somewhat to bosses, but that wasn't a concern except solo. While other classes' damage doubled and gained AoE capabilities, only Sazan (which was shit) saw the same DPS treatment. Everything else's damage and AoE stayed 15 levels behind. Before, if something died while you were charging, you targeted something else and oneshotted that. Now, all you can do is poke something before it would have gotten oneshotted without your help, if you can even poke it in the first place.

4. There is no uncharged option. Techs universally suck if you miss that charge. Smaller, weaker, fewer, or all of the above. Sazonde can do slightly more than breaking even for much higher PP cost, but that's it. With Elysion you eliminate charge time, but increase cast time (lol wands) to break even on damage per cast. Reduced charge time skills/latents/crafts come with uneven penalties that make the old charge time seem more worthwhile after all. Would Force be OP in the current state of the game if uncharged techs were as powerful as charged techs are now? Not really. How about if charged techs were still 2-3x stronger to justify the time?

[LonelyGaruga]

Yeah, it's not like Zondeeling 10 mobs together would benefit Sazan and its tiny AoE yet large damage at all, nope.

Also hey, I remember you. Glad to see you've stuck by Force for a year

Granted, yeah, but I figured the innate vacuum would be much more worthwhile than chasing after the MPA like was being suggested.

Kinnnnda surprised you remember me, nice to see you did! I saw you in lobby a couple times and in a couple Falz Arm MPAs but decided not to say anything. I've been leveling a new character for Te/Hu as opposed to sticking with Fo/Te, but I did end up with an Elysion during...I think week 2 of the boosted Falz. Might go Te/Fi on the character I was playing prior, haven't really decided. Te/Hu has been really fun, Wand Lovers granting it Step + Step Attack made wands go from incredibly dull to far more enjoyable and interesting for me. Only problem I really have with it right now is how stupid MPAs are with detonating Zondeel...sometimes it feels like some players go out of their way to jump above Zondeel and cast Nazonde just to look pretty.


I don't want super armor. Those other classes get great PAs, much more pleasant skill trees, crazy boosts AND far too many protections from being flinched and easier PP restoration. I don't think super armor will help anything. But when other classes with charge PAs get better benefits and better DPS, those classes ARE BETTER.

Wait. Wait wait wait. Did you just say easier PP restoration when Techer has PP Convert and a Force not only regens PP while charging techs but can also use Ketos Proi to its full extent without even having to stop attacking to regain PP. Wow are you serious. No. I am not even going to dignify you with a reply to this part after reading that.


And now who is asking for force to be buffed to gunner/braver levels?

Yeah, uh, two Nafoie alone is 70 PP, then there's Zondeel, and all I really want out of that is just to kill every Goldorahda within Zondeel range, and these guys ignore Zondeel when they're walking. That's the only thing I've specifically asked for in terms of what I'd like to be able to do with Force. How is that even touching upon Gunner/Braver levels.


Make up your mind, do you want force buffed or not; don't tell me in one paragraph that you think I'm crazy for wanting force as strong as gunners/braver (I don't actually, I want some UPSIDE for having to charge)... and in another paragraph that you want better tech damage, lower charge times etc. You want buffs or you don't.

Do I think Force needs buffs? Yes. I never said otherwise. But, when I said Gunner/Braver are broken, it kind of comes with the implication that they, you know, should be nerfed. If I did, in fact, want Force to be on par with them, that would be equivalent of saying I want Force to be broken. Which is stupid. Nobody who wants to see a game be balanced should want a class to be broken. I want a balanced game, not my favorite classes be the best.


I personally have only been annoyed by charging since it no longer has an upside. I didn't play since the beginning of the game, I played a few months in VH, but then SH came out and it simply became "annoyance with no upside" for force. I hate te/hu, I hate wands and only touch elysion (as te/fo or te/fi caster, not smacking). I prefer rods but they are the suicidal weapon of choice so lately it's been talises.

Rods aren't even suicidal, they're outright bad unless they have a potential that merits using them over a Talis, or you actually need to use a tech from a Rod instead of a Talis card/bit/whathaveyou (like Nafoie vs Rockbear). Talis do better damage from a safer distance and carry the benefit of a safe Zondeel that allows you to wipe out enemies more efficiently than with a Rod. The biggest reason to not use a Talis is Elysion, and with that, you only have four techs worth using.


I'm sorry not everyone is super-force never getting touched or having to mirage in the middle of a 60 PP tech and losing all that PP for no reason. Not convinced that it's my keyboard causing random mirage, maybe you like to be like a frozen statue when you charge and don't move, but everyone I know as force talks about how trigger happy mirage is versus step/roll.

Are you completely unware that you can walk and jump while charging a tech? Because there is literally no reason to accuse me of being a "frozen statue" while charging otherwise, because there is a lot more you can do to prevent yourself from being hi than a twitchy finger on whatever button you use to Mirage Escape. I have no idea about you or the people you talk to, but I put my dodge button in a spot that I can always access when I need it, and never accidentally, and I have never heard of anyone complaining about Mirage Escape randomly triggering before you brought it up. Seriously. If I need to dodge while charging a tech, I jump just high enough that I'm off the ground before hitting Mirage Escape. Upon hitting the ground like that, Mirage Escape is canceled, and I can do whatever I want. This takes about as much time as Step does.


Don't put words in my mouth. I was giving you more examples of upsides other classes have during charging and during the actual PAs. They get upsides and a long list of them... we don't anymore, that's that. Just because you got more time in the era of one-shot mobs with one tech doesn't mean this era isn't bad for fo/te.

Of course not, but it does mean that I know firsthand better than you do about what made Force good in the first place, and why it's bad now. You clearly demonstrated a lack of this knowledge. You want Force to be stupidly broken like Gunner and Braver, as if that's fair for the other classes. You want Force to not have to deal with charging. You gripe about Mirage Escape for completely unsupportable reasons. Don't even talk like you're in a position to rant about what Force needs.


Easier to get into how you play better... and yet somehow you still have a litany of things you want fo/te to do better... So I guess playing better doesn't make fo/te suck less afterall. *rolls eyes*

I'm sorry, who was the one talking about how the dodge button keeps pressing itself randomly...right, you. There's a big difference between playing better and not outright being bad. If you're pressing buttons you don't even mean to, you're a bad player. I can't fathom why you have this problem only with classes that have Mirage Escape as the dodge action. I'm chalking it up to poor motor skills, which is the most polite reason I can think of.

Whatever the case, you can't even consider yourself halfway decent as a Force if you can't control when you dodge. So you have no right to complain about Force until you surpass that problem. I honestly don't think I should have seriously replied to you upon reading that. You don't have enough experience to form a reasonable opinion of the class. You can't even dodge right and complain about the game's mechanics being to blame for this. The sheer ignorance involved to even consider such a prospect is evidence alone that you don't know enough about the game to mount reasonable complaints about it.

I'm not even trying to be condescending, there is really no better way to put it. A lot of your complaints have nothing to do with the design of the class so much as the class isn't what you want it to be. And that's too bad, because the class you described shouldn't even be in the game. Force does not need to be on par with Braver or Gunner. Braver and Gunner need to be on par with the other classes. The game is simply not designed to handle those two classes particularly well, and making Force, or any, or all, classes on par with those two isn't balance, it's completely wrecking any semblance of difficulty the game might otherwise have (and it already lacks heavily in difficulty in the first place).