What's your preferred PA system after all?

[isCasted]

We all see the difference between PSU and PSO2 Photon Arts, I believe.

PSU PAs could evolve into long stylish combinated attacks that usually differed in looks, damage timing and positioning of user and targets, but most of the time using one over another didn't make much difference in outcome - any PA could be used anytime.

In PSO2 we see that some PAs can be used more efficiently depending on situation, and creating combinations depending on how situation changes after previous PA somewhat makes player think more about his playstyle and change it accordingly. Essentially it gives game an element of both puzzle and freedom... if it was executed better, that is.

Melee weapons were supposed to shine in this, but I only see everywhere how people's weapon palletes are just multiple slots with same weapon but with different PA where it is assigned to all 3 steps of the combo. It only makes it more annoying to set your weapon pallete when you change class, and you also lose slots that could be used for other weapons. And, obviously, you can't do combos that way. Ranged and tech weapons are in slightly better situation - lack of additional ability that can be assigned to [Shift] button allows you to use 3 PAs any time you want it to be used, but it's still not enough (for me, at least). Technically, if all PAs can be used based on situation, why can't I use any of them anytime?

This way I can see two problems with PSO2 system:
1) Lack of reason to combinate attacks. This doesn't really go with all weapons - I use combos with Double Sabers (but it's not strong) and I see how they can work with TMGs (but S-Roll JA Bonus ruins it). It obviousy depends on designs of PAs themselves.
2) Lack of ability to use any PA at will. Can be solved by allowing to put PAs on subpallete like it's done with techniques (it's not difficult to implement change of subpallete elements based on equipped weapon type; what's more of a problem is speed and multitasking skills of people using controllers) or requiring to use multiple attack buttons to execute PAs (doesn't completely solve problem of slow startup and adds requirement to remember all combinations, but makes it feel more like traditional slashers).



I can see PSO2 formula could work better if it was more polished, but then there's another thing that bugs me: damage values. You can say "photons" when you see small girl with a short saber flipping huge monsters (damn Kamatozes), you can say "photons" when you see someone floating through the air as if it was water, I'll even let you say that slowing down your spacetime to shoot sloooooooow bullets that defy gravity can be explained by "photons" too... But there's no way those sloooooooow bullets would deal over 10x damage of normal attack bullets. There's no way how few slow Katana strikes can be 8-20x stronger than usual quick attacks.

I can list maaany PAs from PSO2 like this. The point is: you can say that it's all fantasy and unreal stuff when you talk about amazing actions, but you can't say that for consequences of those actions. That's how PSU was better - even though you could see some crazy methods of doing damage that might make no sense to you, resulting damage made sense. Even if I think it's unreal how someone can hover with sabers spinning around him I can say that those sabers do exactly as much damage as they would if that was real (compared to basic attack, at least). In PSU damage was synchronized with visuals, in PSO2 it isn't.



So, what do you think? What should PS games stick with?

[Chdata]

The only TMG combos I use are ones where I will always perform the first PA after an Sroll, and the other two are same and I have to attack once after an sroll to use them.

[Mysterious-G]

While I can't honestly say that I prefer one over the other, I definitely think that PSZ's technic system blew all in the series out of the water by a long shot.

[pkemr4]

pso2's

[Kilich]

What if they added glowing aura to sloooow bullets?

Also, I like PSO2's. I use most of the PAs, depending on a situation.

[Sayara]

PSO2 HAS the potential for amazing melee combos but they are often excluded for Shunka, Bloody Sharbadarde and the other ho hum fotm PAs.

[Radical Dreamer]

Like you said, there's pretty much no incentive to combo PAs right now, so why not make one? Here's what I'm thinking:

You always start with the first PA in your set-up. Your first PA uses less PP but does less damage, your second PA uses normal amounts of PP and does regular damage, and your third PA also uses normal PP amounts but does increased damage. If you use the same PA two or three times in a row, it does less damage too. You'll need to mix up your combos to get the most out of them.

[Ezodagrom]

PAs, I like being able to costumize PAs the way I want in PSO2, though due to how unbalanced they are, it encourages spamming the same one over and over...

Technics, I also prefer PSO2 when compared to PSU ones, especially since PSU technics were completely useless at lower levels (it wasn't just lower damage, but also much lower range).
When comparing to other games in the series, I think PSZero was the best one when it comes to technics though.

[Shadowth117]

While I'd have to argue the "unrealistic" damage output is fine the way it is, I do have to comment on your 2nd argument. I do agree that should be an option for people with controllers. Maybe make it so that the sub palette is per weapon (which would actually justify having 6 different ones). Amusingly, on Keyboard play this is basically avoided since switching mid combo with the instant switch is possible.

Something that would fix this, and ironically fix the issues with loading weapons during dashes would be to:
1. Have all weapons on someone's palette in the same MPA loaded at once (not necessary in lobby because you aren't attacking)

2. Change the rotation weapon switch to an instant weapon switch that works similarly. Maybe show the wheel to to visually demonstrate what's happening, but don't force the player to select the weapon. This would allow a player to quickly press "up up" for example and instantly be at his palette slot 2 spaces above. This essentially would allow controller players to do what keyboard players already do with combos.

The one "downside" to this method is that depending on how it was implemented, weapon switched based dashing may become impossible, but in my opinion this isn't a huge downside considering the gained utility. Hell, it would make the scroll wheel more usable for switching weapons like they had intended.

But I digress; if they were dedicated enough to do any of what I said, dashing techniques in general would either have been drastically simplified or removed by now. I wouldn't say its 100% out of the picture though given drastic changes to other games I've seen before.

[Gardios]

Like you said, there's pretty much no incentive to combo PAs right now, so why not make one? Here's what I'm thinking:

You always start with the first PA in your set-up. Your first PA uses less PP but does less damage, your second PA uses normal amounts of PP and does regular damage, and your third PA also uses normal PP amounts but does increased damage. If you use the same PA two or three times in a row, it does less damage too. You'll need to mix up your combos to get the most out of them.

Remove Fury Combo Up and give Just Attacks for PAs/techniques an increasing modifier up to a maximum.

In other words, Star Ocean.

[Radical Dreamer]

Remove Fury Combo Up and give Just Attacks for PAs/techniques an increasing modifier up to a maximum.

In other words, Star Ocean.

Star Ocean is awesome, so I'm fine with that. :V

[The Walrus]

Honestly? PSU(specifically PSP2)'s. At least it had combos ;_;

Yes I know PSO2 does too but there is NO REASON WHATSOEVER TO DO IT OVER SPAMMING THE SAME TOP TIER PA(S) OVER AND OVER FOR EACH CLASS.

Dammit Sega.

[Freshellent]

The system for PSO2 is my favorite, but in actual use I think I preferred PSP2i. I had a little but of everything. A shame Techs were kinda meh for me.

Is it wrong to somewhat hope for a private server rebalance of skills/trees in the game so we could have a ton more variety? There's a few combo movies floating around for the game that are quite wonderful, if impractical.

[Lostbob117]

I like PSU's the most

[The Walrus]

The system for PSO2 is my favorite, but in actual use I think I preferred PSP2i. I had a little but of everything. A shame Techs were kinda meh for me.

Is it wrong to somewhat hope for a private server rebalance of skills/trees in the game so we could have a ton more variety? There's a few combo movies floating around for the game that are quite wonderful, if impractical.

Probably never gonna happen given how much stuff is kept serverside

[Freshellent]

Despite all that, I'm still fairly content with the game as it is now. Maybe a few changes here and there but it's much better than leveling Crossbows.

[Sp-24]

I prefer the idea PSO2 had behind its PAs when it first launched, in that you were supposed to combine them and make use of the three hit system.

Now, however, I just load every weapon palette with three of the same PA that I intend to spam non-stop. This is especially ridiculous with machinguns, since I have Heel Stab, Infinity Fire (default), Messiah Time and Elder Rebellion on separate palettes to use in various situations, and there is no way whatsoever to combine one of them with another in any meaningful way. It's even worse for melee classes, since every weapon type that they can use usually has one good PA that completely overshadows everything else that that weapon, and maybe even the whole class, can do.

I didn't like PSU's PAs, and I think PSZ pulled them off much better. Guess Sega agrees, since PSO2's PAs have been made even faster than PSZ's.

[strikerhunter]

Before Sroll and shunkan, it would be PSO2.........now after Sroll and shunkan.....it's PSU.

Before Sroll was introduced, I had my GU spamming reverse trap-->Bullet Squall-->Elder Rebellion combo and killing grouped up mobs left and right (reverse traps works wonders when in the right position).

But now after Sroll, it's just run around with IF.

Would like PSU's combo system implanted to PSO2's if all 3 PAs slotted are the same exact PAs, that would add some more interesting stuffs.

[ZER0 DX]

PSU's was infinitely better. It just felt more fluid with the 3 hit PA combos it offered. It did suffer the same problem of one PA for each weapon category being the best that PSO2 has, but at least you got 3 full different hits out of the PA and they would occasionally do "balance" adjustments to switch up which PA's were the most useful. Getting a full Blade Destruction or Assault Crush was a lot more satisfying since the attack animations differed during the PA combo and made you want to get to that second or third hit just for the raw damage. It wasn't as tedious as just spamming Deadly Archer or whatever 3 times in a row.

[Ezodagrom]

Before Sroll and shunkan, it would be PSO2.........now after Sroll and shunkan.....it's PSU.

Before Sroll was introduced, I had my GU spamming reverse trap-->Bullet Squall-->Elder Rebellion combo and killing grouped up mobs left and right (reverse traps works wonders when in the right position).

But now after Sroll, it's just run around with IF.

Would like PSU's combo system implanted to PSO2's if all 3 PAs slotted are the same exact PAs, that would add some more interesting stuffs.
PSU had quite a few OP PAs throughout its lifetime, like majarra, jabroga, a couple of twin claws PAs by the end of JP PSU, so it's not like PSU didn't have its "shunkas". ^^;

[Lumpen Thingy]

Honestly? PSU(specifically PSP2)'s. At least it had combos ;_;

Yes I know PSO2 does too but there is NO REASON WHATSOEVER TO DO IT OVER SPAMMING THE SAME TOP TIER PA(S) OVER AND OVER FOR EACH CLASS.

Dammit Sega.

some of PSU's PA were so broken there was no need to use anything for a certain weapon aka jabroga with axes so thats not really something you can say PSU did better but the combo system in PSP2 wasnt too bad just not my personal fav

[Maninbluejumpsuit]

I agree there is a lack of incentive to actually combo different PAs together, or even set a single palette for a combo, but I disagree on melee classes not being able to combo PAs. I just switch pallets with the function keys mid animation, like using kanran to knockdown multiple breedas in TD while switching to my shunka pallet for the weakpoints.

There's other things I do like hatou x3->shunka, or kanran x3->shunka depending on the situation.

[gigawuts]

I liked PSZ's system since the PAs were a part of the weapon, but even then you'd just get the best PA and spam it.

[Ezodagrom]

One thing that I really like about the PSO2 system is being able to mix normal attacks between PAs, for someone like me who doesn't put the same PA 3 times in a row (even if having the same PA repeated may be more effective, I rather have it be more fun to play than being more effective), being able to mix in normal attacks makes it more interesting for me than repeating the same PA combo over and over like how it was in PSU.

[Macman]

I liked PSZ's system since the PAs were a part of the weapon, but even then you'd just get the best PA and spam it.
It was cool, but then you'd get shit like H44 Missouri with either Quick Draw or no PA at all and now your super rare item is useless garbage.

[gigawuts]

Yeah, maybe if there was a way to alter it in the endgame I'd have liked it a bit more, but then I never reached endgame so

[Macman]

One thing I liked about PSU was that you didn't have to rely on dumb luck to get your PAs to a decent level.
Granted it took a lot of grinding just spamming the PA on everything alive, but at least you're not at the mercy of the RNG hoping to get the latest lv16 that makes your favorite PA usable again.

[RadiantLegend]

Err I'm fine with no PA leveling. *looking at you dugrega*

[Ezodagrom]

Err I'm fine with no PA leveling. *looking at you dugrega*
Buffs that took forever to level up and only had changes once every 10 levels, technics that were completely useless below level 21 (not talking about damage, but about range)... yeah, I'm fine with no PA leveling too.

[strikerhunter]

Err I'm fine with no PA leveling. *looking at you dugrega*

Agree *looks at all the support techs*

[jcart953]

One thing I liked about PSU was that you didn't have to rely on dumb luck to get your PAs to a decent level.
Granted it took a lot of grinding just spamming the PA on everything alive, but at least you're not at the mercy of the RNG hoping to get the latest lv16 that makes your favorite PA usable again.

See Idk while I did like how some pas got different animations when you leveled them (especially techniques) for the most part it seemed boring and too grindy. Especially bullets they were boring as hell to level, and we not even going to talk about buff parties. Thank goodness we could afk level those boring as PA's .


some of PSU's PA were so broken there was no need to use anything for a certain weapon aka jabroga with axes so thats not really something you can say PSU did better but the combo system in PSP2 wasnt too bad just not my personal fav

This was so true, I remember when people use to tornado dance to the enemy then just jabroga the shit of them and kept it moving before people got hits off lol.

[jooozek]

PSO/PSZ 6-action system was the best
combo system that in reality macros what PA you use in your chain? what is this, some asian mmo cookie cutter?

[milranduil]

See Idk while I did like how some pas got different animations when you leveled them (especially techniques) for the most part it seemed boring and too grindy. Especially bullets they were boring as hell to level, and we not even going to talk about buff parties. Thank goodness we could afk level those boring as PA's .



This was so true, I remember when people use to tornado dance to the enemy then just jabroga the shit of them and kept it moving before people got hits off lol.

I would rather level 10 batches of support techs to 50 again in a buff party than try to hunt Diffuse Shell 16 or Impact Slider 16 or Namegid 16 (pre LQ) or... yeah you get the point. Hard, albeit boring, work showed for something. Here it's just lolRNG.

[Zipzo]

PP on the weapon wasn't a good idea. In early PSU days it just incentivised bringing 10 pairs of the weapon you spam PAs with so you can essentially spam better without running out of resources.

The swap to character-based PP was a good one, and I believe that came in around PSP2, so I felt PSP2 was a pretty good spot in terms of combat. It felt like melee hits even had a place in terms of chaining as well.

PA spam is now unfortunately the thing despite PP being character based even in PSO2, and I honestly thing the solution is rather easy.

Heavily increase PP cost of all PA (except a lot of the basic Techs like Foie, Barta, Zonde). First, this makes spamming impossible. Second, it condones putting basic attacks in to your combo in order to manage/regain PP.

I honestly think that would do it.

[strikerhunter]

PP on the weapon wasn't a good idea. In early PSU days it just incentivised bringing 10 pairs of the weapon you spam PAs with so you can essentially spam better without running out of resources.

The swap to character-based PP was a good one, and I believe that came in around PSP2, so I felt PSP2 was a pretty good spot in terms of combat. It felt like melee hits even had a place in terms of chaining as well.

PA spam is now unfortunately the thing despite PP being character based even in PSO2, and I honestly thing the solution is rather easy.

Heavily increase PP cost of all PA (except a lot of the basic Techs like Foie, Barta, Zonde). First, this makes spamming impossible. Second, it condones putting basic attacks in to your combo in order to manage/regain PP.

I honestly think that would do it.

IMO everyone will just fill their mag's with PP restore and change PBs to the PP restore based one to counter this. <---edit point taken back.

IMO, lower the natural PP restore rate (this makes FO and TE special in that while forcing melee and rangers to do auto attacks), do something on how to accumulate more damage like PSP2/2i did with chain (maybe revamp weapon gears?), seriously either increase mob HP or lower player damages so that they don't die in a few sec (remember boosted Orga back when beach came out?) because big numbers =/= problem solve.

[Zipzo]

IMO everyone will just fill their mag's with PP restore and change PBs to the PP restore based one to counter this.

Yeah? So what if they do? That doesn't make the solution invalid.

[strikerhunter]

Yeah? So what if they do? That doesn't make the solution invalid.

I know but I never said it doesn't make it invalid, just that everyone will start building up things that have PP restore.

[Zipzo]

I know but I never said it doesn't make it invalid, just that everyone will start building up things that have PP restore.

You're basically saying it wouldn't work simply because people would optimize their characters in order to obtain more PP more often solely through their MAG. Why exactly would this mean it wouldn't work?

You can't keep a mag trigger rolling indefinitely.

[strikerhunter]

You're basically saying it wouldn't work simply because people would optimize their characters in order to obtain more PP more often solely through their MAG. Why exactly would this mean it wouldn't work?

You can't keep a mag trigger rolling indefinitely.

Hmmm........now that you said that, kinda want to take my point back.

Edit: Actually, I think we are on the same page (English can get wonky at times since it's not my first language) since ideally we both are pointing out creating PP issues for the classes and forcing auto attacks and stop PA spams but just with different approaches. <just forget that I said yours won't work>

[Zipzo]

Hmmm........now that you said that, kinda want to take my point back.

I'm guessing I can just put it like: Putting in more PP cost will just make players focus on things that restore PP (like mags and PB) or increase their max PP size with affixes and gears for burst damage. ??That sound a bit more right-ish?

I suppose they might, but they also might not. It's pros and cons. That to me sounds like a gearing choice based on play style which is totally fine (and I would encourage).

What is not fine is a system reliant on spamming one PA without even a 2nd thought to your PP gauge because everything dies anyway or the PP cost is irrelevant.

I think that my solution would also indirectly make mobs more durable. Since PA's couldn't be spammed, as an indirect result they would usually tend to live longer on average, thus creating a heightened sense of "durability" their lifespan.

[strikerhunter]

I suppose they might, but they also might not. It's pros and cons. That to me sounds like a gearing choice based on play style which is totally fine (and I would encourage).

What is not fine is a system reliant on spamming one PA without even a 2nd thought to your PP gauge because everything dies anyway or the PP cost is irrelevant.

I think that my solution would also indirectly make mobs more durable. Since PA's couldn't be spammed, as an indirect result they would usually tend to live longer on average, thus creating a heightened sense of "durability" their lifespan.

True, true on both points.

[milranduil]

All that massively increasing PP cost of PAs would do is largely punish the player for missing *any* PA. This would just make it more frustrating to play any melee class. Shunka would still kill everything in 1 PA so that doesn't matter. Heel Stab would still clear a spawn in 1 PA. No, I think if you want to be focused on making enemies more durable, you need to either nerf fury stance and buff some of the UP PAs, or up enemy HP.

[gigawuts]

No, I think if you want to be focused on making enemies more durable, you need to either nerf fury stance and buff some of the UP PAs, or up enemy HP.

All three, please.

[Zipzo]

All that massively increasing PP cost of PAs would do is largely punish the player for missing *any* PA. This would just make it more frustrating to play any melee class. Shunka would still kill everything in 1 PA so that doesn't matter. Heel Stab would still clear a spawn in 1 PA. No, I think if you want to be focused on making enemies more durable, you need to either nerf fury stance and buff some of the UP PAs, or up enemy HP.

And that's exactly the point. You're punished PP wise, for a huge bonus temporary performance enhancer, and then you're forced to wait just a wee-bit longer until you can do it again. Whether Shunka should be nerfed or not is a different thing, but either way, whether it clears a spawn in a single use or not, it will have checks and balances to its use, the most obvious being that you can't use it again so quickly after the first use.

You can't look at it as "punishing". The only reason you can even call it that is because of the way things are now.

I also wouldn't disagree with your last 3 mentions either. There's more than just one single fix for the problems the games imbalances.

[The Walrus]

some of PSU's PA were so broken there was no need to use anything for a certain weapon aka jabroga with axes so thats not really something you can say PSU did better but the combo system in PSP2 wasnt too bad just not my personal fav

True I suppose the way I worded that goes against what I actually mean. I enjoyed how PAs in PSU-PSP2i could be upgraded to get extensions which was neat instead of just spamming one simple part for all of them which is closer to what PSO2 does.

[milranduil]

All three, please.

Rather those 3 than double PP costs or something.


And that's exactly the point. You're punished PP wise, for a huge bonus temporary performance enhancer, and then you're forced to wait just a wee-bit longer until you can do it again. Whether Shunka should be nerfed or not is a different thing, but either way, whether it clears a spawn in a single use or not, it will have checks and balances to its use, the most obvious being that you can't use it again so quickly after the first use.

You can't look at it as "punishing". The only reason you can even call it that is because of the way things are now.

I also wouldn't disagree with your last 3 mentions either. There's more than just one single fix for the problems the games imbalances.

How is that any fun at all? Describe to me the mindset behind "Oh you missed the target by one pixel for BHS. Now suffer the loss of 90 PP". That's just stupid... and it wouldn't fix the inherent problem that 90% of PAs aren't used. All this would do is bump that number from 90% to 95%.

[Zipzo]

True I suppose the way I worded that goes against what I actually mean. I enjoyed how PAs in PSU-PSP2i could be upgraded to get extensions which was neat instead of just spamming one simple part for all of them which is closer to what PSO2 does.

I think the Bow PA "Tritt Shooter" is a great PA (in terms of mechanics).

You can either use it straight out, or you can charge it for the option of having a whole 2nd part attached. I think more PAs should work like this.


Rather those 3 than double PP costs or something.



How is that any fun at all? Describe to me the mindset behind "Oh you missed the target by one pixel for BHS. Now suffer the loss of 90 PP". That's just stupid... and it wouldn't fix the inherent problem that 90% of PAs aren't used. All this would do is bump that number from 90% to 95%.

Easy.

The stronger or more effective the PA, the more the cost. Right now that difference scales between 1-5 PP, meaning it's of absolutely no 2nd thought to anyone. Shunka would be PP expensive, but other PAs - such as the less used ones simply because of power, would be cheaper and more usable on a regular basis. If you miss because you can't position yourself properly to use your PA or you just happen to miss because of whatever reason, that's the way the cookie crumbles.

I disagree, I think it'd be very fun, and it would encourage the use of many more PAs.

[strikerhunter]

I think the Bow PA "Tritt Shooter" is a great PA (in terms of mechanics).

You can either use it straight out, or you can charge it for the option of having a whole 2nd part attached. I think more PAs should work like this.

Kinda understandable for charging PAs but what of non-charged PAs?


Easy.

The stronger or more effective the PA, the more the cost. Right now that difference scales between 1-5 PP, meaning it's of absolutely no 2nd thought to anyone.

Shunka would be PP expensive, but other PAs - such as the less used ones simply because of power, would be cheaper and more usable on a regular basis.

If you miss because you can't position yourself properly to use your PA or you just happen to miss because of whatever reason, that's the way the cookie crumbles.

I disagree, I think it'd be very fun, and it would encourage the use of many more PAs.

Honestly it should had been the stronger the PA, the more the PP should cost <seriously compare PP cost with Shunkan and BHS> and the weaker it be the cheaper it should be.

[milranduil]

Easy.

The stronger or more effective the PA, the more the cost. Right now that difference scales between 1-5 PP, meaning it's of absolutely no 2nd thought to anyone.

Shunka would be PP expensive, but other PAs - such as the less used ones simply because of power, would be cheaper and more usable on a regular basis.

If you miss because you can't position yourself properly to use your PA or you just happen to miss because of whatever reason, that's the way the cookie crumbles.

I disagree, I think it'd be very fun, and it would encourage the use of many more PAs.

Deadly Archer - 30PP
Backhand Smash - 45PP

wat

[Zipzo]

Kinda understandable for charging PAs but what of non-charged PAs?

I don't know I'm not a developer I'm not thinking of solutions for everything, I just think that PA in particular is well designed.

[Zipzo]

Deadly Archer - 30PP
Backhand Smash - 45PP

wat

Are you implying that those PAs are already relatively expensive despite being spammed?

[milranduil]

I'm saying they're used in otherwise similar situations but have a difference in PP cost of 50%. You think people don't put thought into using one over the other? Your statement of "1-5PP means no thought" is completely invalid.

Edit: I want to make the point that I am all for broadening PA usage widely. I get bored myself spamming the same PAs, but they are efficient right now. Increasing PP costs would do the opposite of that though.

[Chdata]

Even if it costs 45% you'd probably just normal melee twice and be able to again.

[milranduil]

Even if it costs 45% you'd probably just normal melee twice and be able to again.

Maybe if you abused 3rd dsaber attack into step attack, but knuckles? Yeah... no. The only way to sustain BHS right now is: 1) PB, 2) Dies in less than 3 BHS.

[Macman]

Or 3) Have a lv3 latent God Han--oh wait that's still not enough.

I can't believe a PA as balls insane as Shunka only costs 30 PP. I seriously think they accidentally swapped the PP costs for it and Fodou.

[Chdata]

Maybe the total damage was supposed to be split more between each slash shunka has or something.

Instead of hitting whatever that total is on every single slash.

[Kikikiki]

Maybe the total damage was supposed to be split more between each slash shunka has or something.

Instead of hitting whatever that total is on every single slash.

In one of my experiments earlier in-game, Shunka slashes without multipliers indeed accumulate into the total amount of listed power. So no, the damage is indeed splitted.

What makes Shunka stupid as sin is the additional power in the last slash if the mob's HP is still higher than your last slash's damage. So at that moment your damage is effectively doubled. Plus all the multipliers out there also contribute to Shunka's power.

[WildarmsRE5]

SEGA pls make shunka cost 100 PP.
http://i.imgur.com/uv5sXlK.jpg

[Laxedrane]

I am definitely prefer the PSZ system to techs. It made them interesting and gave charging a point.

As far as leveling pas verse getting leveled disc... Why not both?

I sincerely miss the combo Photon arts from PSU however one hit pas do have their place. Why not make it so combos just take all 3 pas slots on a weapon while single PAs just behave like they do now?

[gigawuts]

Okay, how about this:
1. Weapons have built-in damage bonuses to specific PAs. Sometimes one, sometimes two, sometimes whatever.
2. That damage bonus can be replaced with +1 level to a specific PA, up to the cap. That means a level 1 PA goes to level 2, a level 15 PA goes to level 16, and a level 16 PA stays at level 16 until we get 17 and up.
3. PA latents stay for even higher bonuses, but other latents are given to weapons with PA latents.
4. Certain weapons have PAs on them automatically, sometimes even for a different type. A Picopico Hammer might have Slide End, despite being a rod. For the sake of argument let's say animations miraculously never glitch. These would have to be case by case, since some PAs clearly don't fit with some weapons (infinity fire on a sword?).

This does several things:
1. It makes weapons unique right out of the untekked box
2. It promotes variety in tactics, as one weapon may boost two different PAs at once
3. It offers a work-around for anyone that just can't catch a break with a PA drop. Can you still not find Impact Slider 16, but you've found 15? Then get the rifle with Impact Slider +1 built in.

[Punisher106]

Agree *looks at all the support techs*

Buff parties and poison vents in missions say hi, as well as the huge group of Go Badiras in the beginning of one of the Rozenom missions. I had all of my support techs at 41+. :V

I prefer PSU's version, not only for the flashiness of the PAs, but also because of the huge PP capacity. A lot of the PAs balanced power and Mobility quite nicely, and the technics at high levels were downright gorgeous, albeit a little laggy.

[Mega Ultra Chicken]

It's probably insanely underpowered, but I still find room for Tornado Dance in my Double Saber's palette. There's just something that feels so right about Step Attacking into a Tornado Dance. Meanwhile, Step Attack into Deadly Archer feels awkward.

But I do agree that Shunka is really freaking spammable. Then again, constantly teleporting and slashing whatever's in front of me probably won't start getting old for me for quite a while.

[GoldenFalcon]

I think what they need to do is make PA's power scale more per level, give everything a jump in power at 11, remove the cliffs of power at 16, and balance overpowered ones like Shunka by making them start a LOT lower from 1 to 10.
The end result would be every PA having its place, rather than the current predicament where you can choose to spend the same PP to do 1/10th damage.

[Sp-24]

It would require careful balancing for every PA to have its place, as some PAs have advantages over others in terms of more things than just power - JG frames and good range of that one dagger PA and insane speed of a certain knuckle PA would still put them above others in most situations. But game balance requires actual work, and you can't expect Sega to do that.

As for just increasing damage in hopes that everything just fixes itself, Sega has already done that, way more than once. That's what "cliffs of power" at level 16 are for - not every PA got them, only the ones Sega deemed underpowered. And all that it ever does is create another ridiculously OP move and removes the old one (looking at Sazan).

[Coreven]

Melee weapons were supposed to shine in this, but I only see everywhere how people's weapon palletes are just multiple slots with same weapon but with different PA where it is assigned to all 3 steps of the combo. It only makes it more annoying to set your weapon pallete when you change class, and you also lose slots that could be used for other weapons. And, obviously, you can't do combos that way.

I'm not sure if someone said this already but this part isn't really true. While my palettes are indeed all the same move three times in a row, I switch between palettes while I'm attacking using the number keys 1-6, letting me combo whatever I want into whatever else I want.

But I admit it makes it a bit more annoying to set weapon palettes when changing class, or made it since we've got the My Set option now.

EDIT: Ah, did I necro? I was just linked this from somewhere else and didn't check the times.

[HeyItsTHK]

Y'know they could just make tech JA art and fury combo up just part of the system instead of skills and voila, incentive to combo.