New PAs

[Onvirtual]

I think we already seen some new PAs like Il Foei and Il Zonde along with 3 other new PAs for tmg, twin d and gunslash.

Another batch of new PAs are Il Barta and Il Grants, and 3 new PAs (Sword, D saber and rifle)

From what I've seen, Il barta would become like the next Na megid with incredible damage. Il Grants is like a much stronger version of Grants.

Thoughts?



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ySLGLfKMJZU&feature=player_embedded

[strikerhunter]

This is already mentioned the Podcast thread.

However, the only that catches me is the rifle PA. <finally something better than just relying on lv 16 PS>

[Sanguine2009]

Il barta and Il grants strike me as filling a role that was lacking in their respective elements(a boss killer and a ranged crowd control).
similarly the DS looks like it might fill the radial AOE role that DS has been lacking a good option in.
no comment on the rifle PA as im not really familiar with rifles.
finally sega must really hate swords to give it a PA like that, unless it does crazy high damage i cant see it getting much use at all

[Zorafim]

Why was there still video after the fish launcher? What else could they have to show?

[WildarmsRE5]

dat rifle PA.

[Zenobia]

I am actually looking forward to how hard the new GU and FI PA hit they have me interested.

[jiasu73]

damn! that rifle pa looks sweet

[Zenobia]

Whats bad about it is how backwards that rifle PA works. If you don't charge it all the way the AOE get bigger and the hits are weak but if you charge it longer the AOE gets smaller but it hits harder.

You guys say it looks sweet but is backwards as hell and counter productive wow guys.

[final_attack]

I mostly interested with Gu PA ...... But now, that Satellite Cannon made me wanna try a rifle ^^;

Kinda wondering what that Sword PA do though.

[pkemr4]

>Satellite Cannon
http://www.gundamplanet.com/media/catalog/box-art/hgaw-gundam-x-box-art.jpg

[Ratazana]

The rifle pa can be charged for less aoe but more dmg.

[Zenobia]

The rifle pa can be charged for less aoe but more dmg.


Whats bad about it is how backwards that rifle PA works. If you don't charge it all the way the AOE get bigger and the hits are weak but if you charge it longer the AOE gets smaller but it hits harder.

You guys say it looks sweet but is backwards as hell and counter productive wow guys.

Well now....

[cheapgunner]

>Satellite Cannon
http://www.gundamplanet.com/media/catalog/box-art/hgaw-gundam-x-box-art.jpg

Next Collab after Attack on Titan is Gundam. Gimme my Gundam Zero / Strike Freedom cast parts plz...

[strikerhunter]

Well now....

It would make since with more hits and bigger AOE but less damage so the output damage is similar to the non-charged shot but spread across towards more targets instead.


Next Collab after Attack on Titan is Gundam. Gimme my Gundam Zero / Strike Freedom cast parts plz...

And after that maybe we can have an Armored Core collab and give me mah White Glint parts.................oh wait...........it's not an anime.........

[Zenobia]

It would make since with more hits and bigger AOE but less damage so the output damage is similar to the non-charged shot but spread across towards more targets instead.

Dunno if you got what I meant. If I half charge something it should be equal to amount I charged you don't charge something all the way but makes its aoe smaller.

Realistically speaking if something was charged to 100% and its an AOE skill it should match it. Oh well if you guys are satisfied with that then by all means have at it I just think its silly how they did it.

[Gardios]

This is the right way to do it though. If it just became stronger with the same AoE, there'd be no real incentive to use it uncharged.

If anything, more PAs/techniques should work like that.

[Ratazana]

You are just looking at it backwards. You charge to concentrate all the beams in a single spot.

[strikerhunter]

Dunno if you got what I meant. If I half charge something it should be equal to amount I charged you don't charge something all the way but makes its aoe smaller.

Realistically speaking if something was charged to 100% and its an AOE skill it should match it. Oh well if you guys are satisfied with that then by all means have at it I just think its silly how they did it.

I'm not really sure what you are trying to say but, I was pretty much trying to say that the total damage (theoretically), whether charged or not, should be similar.
Point being: damage should be spread across targets for AOE increase but total damage should be similar to the single target nukers. It's basically spread damage vs Focus fire.

Example: 24k hit for uncharged on single target but 24k damage total dealing 3k each across 8 targets when charged.

[Rehal]

Il Barta is interesting, if you cast it 3 times on the same target it deals massive damage.

[Zenobia]

You are just looking at it backwards. You charge to concentrate all the beams in a single spot.
When I think of that I think of Samus charge shot from SSMB when she was stationary but if it's coming from the air....meeh idk looks like one big beam to me not multiple sense you said it like that.


I'm not really sure what you are trying to say but, I
was pretty much trying to say that the total damage (theoretically), whether charged or not, should be similar.
Point being: damage should be spread across targets for AOE increase but total damage should be similar to the single target nukers. It's basically spread damage vs Focus fire.

Example: 24k hit for uncharged on single target but 24k damage total dealing 3k each across 8 targets when charged.

Yeah I see now.

[Zorafim]

Next Collab after Attack on Titan is Gundam. Gimme my Gundam Zero / Strike Freedom cast parts plz...

Gundam? So we'll be getting the same parts as usual, then?
(please give zero suits to fleshies and mech parts to robochicks)

[Shinamori]

Il Grants reminds me of Mystic Cross from Valkyrie Profile.

[strikerhunter]

Gundam? So we'll be getting the same parts as usual, then?
(please give zero suits to fleshies and mech parts to robochicks)

Knowing Sega if such Collab would ever happen, they probably make Gundam bosses, an LQ related to it along with an EQ. Remember Border Break anyone?

[Zenobia]

Knowing Sega if such Collab would ever happen, they probably make Gundam bosses, an LQ related to it along with an EQ. Remember Border Break anyone?

Hopefully the Gundam's don't fight like the Border Break ones you know how sega is about dem reskins

[strikerhunter]

Hopefully the Gundam's don't fight like the Border Break ones you know how sega is about dem reskins

They most likely well, but with flight capability which will either make annoying or one of the best boss fights ever. Now that I think of it................shit seriously we do need a flying boss.

[jcart953]

Il Barta is interesting, if you cast it 3 times on the same target it deals massive damage.

I'm wondering if that's how that works, I mean if sega is showing a clip of something doing 50isk that must be the low scale of things then. Il Barta must have some crazy potential there...

[Chdata]

Ice namegid


I'm hoping they aren't just blatantly making it better in every way over namegid. It'd be like releasing some new PA for a class that's instantly 10x better than every other existing PA for no reason and then everyone uses only that because it's 10x stronger.

[GoldenFalcon]

Il Grants reminds me of Mystic Cross from Valkyrie Profile.

I was more thinking the spell that the fat sanctum thing uses.

[Sanguine2009]

but we already are getting a gundam crossover! qubeley mags!

[Daiyousei]

On closer inspection of Shift Period, it's the same Gunkata flourish as the ones in Equilibrium

http://youtu.be/A2KJHysK6k8?t=36s

I do like to point out that the movie is called Rebellion in Japan, as in, THE Elder Rebellion PA.

[Chdata]

Yay for an aoe bubble.

Now, locations locations locations, what drops what?

[jooozek]

like i've already said in another thread, shift period and iru zonde drop both from mi micda

[yoshiblue]

Watch Sega say no because Gundam is asking for too much money in return.

[Chdata]

Sadly throwing a talis and using Il Zonde doesn't make the talis move.

[Arksenth]

Oh, heads up. Ilfoie does almost the same damage uncharged with Elysion Latent 3 as it does charged. And unlike Namegid, you don't need to hold it down for a second to charge it up.

It's still not as pp efficient in terms of damage per pp as Sazan, but it's good when you need to stack on some rapid damage I guess.

[Gama]

any idea where the pas drop? lvl 1 is a bit... meh.

[Rakurai]

I got Shift Period 15 from some random enemy in the Desert AQ.

It wasn't a Mi Micda, either.

[jooozek]

it is mi micda, there is no other rare enemies in that aq outside of rappies lol

[MetalDude]

Any actual damage increases or no?

[jooozek]

lv15 shift period = 422 power so

[MetalDude]

366 at lv1 so a pretty minor increase then. Not expecting much for anything other than Il Foie (just because it's already high up there).

[IndigoNovember]

Watch as huge power jump from 15 to 16 >_>; .

[Kayarine]

JP wiki comments report Ilfoie drops from SH volcano AQ. Commenter says it dropped from small fry, maybe Digg or a Dinian-type, they're unsure.

Another comment says they think they got Ilzonde from a Spardan-type enemy. Probably SH desert AQ.

Yet another comment says they got Facet Folia from a Za Oodan in SH forest AQ.

It's possible that the new discs drop from any enemy in specific SH AQs, not just rare ones.

[TaigaUC]

Friend Partners with Il Foie are awesome.

[Kikikiki]

Watch as huge power jump from 15 to 16 >_>; .

New PAs tend to have rather balanced firepower (read: Hatou, Shunka, etc) so this is unlikely to happen.

Well, the power looks like the spray part of Heel Stab so I'm all cool for that, unless the damage actually spreads around like Kanran... if that's the case then I'll be sticking with Heel Stab.

[ShinMaruku]

Il Foie looks good but needs more testing. I just want to slap the man who thought it making me stand still in SH was a good idea. Unless at 16 it does something amazing right now tis ok.

[Kikikiki]

It's kinda funny that they're so desperate to implement such gimmicky aspects on Technique-based classes but neglects others.

[ShinMaruku]

I don't think it's funny I just think James Dolan syndrome has effected Sonic Team.

[IndigoNovember]

New PAs tend to have rather balanced firepower (read: Hatou, Shunka, etc) so this is unlikely to happen.

Indeed, there have been outlier cases like Tritt Shooter though. So I'm just going to hope for the best and prepare for the worst.

[final_attack]

Gunslash PA in Volcano. Random mobs? Got it on Area 3 (Fordoran(?) 1 tusk or 2 tusk)

[Shinamori]

JP wiki comments report Ilfoie drops from SH volcano AQ. Commenter says it dropped from small fry, maybe Digg or a Dinian-type, they're unsure.

Another comment says they think they got Ilzonde from a Spardan-type enemy. Probably SH desert AQ.

Yet another comment says they got Facet Folia from a Za Oodan in SH forest AQ.

It's possible that the new discs drop from any enemy in specific SH AQs, not just rare ones.

I for Facet Folia from on of the wolves.

[Zorafim]

I just checked out the twin dagger PA, and was disappointed to find it out was just a grapple. It does what it does well, but I already have orchestra 16 which fills the same roll and does more damage.
Shame, I liked how it looked.

[Xaeris]

Shift Period plus Zondeel support is pretty luzly. On its own, it's a little cumbersome to use, considering I have to backflip into the mob and account for the short range, but still, pretty powerful in the appropriate situations.

[Bellion]

The new PAs drop based on whichever class you play.

Hien Tsubaki and Kamikaze Arrow only drop for Braver class and they are 6*.

[Shinamori]

I got the TMG PA with my Force, but it like rare for me. O_O

[TaigaUC]

Friend partners with Il Foie annihilate SH TA trash mobs.
But the constant huge explosions make it difficult to see anything.
My laptop actually slows down from the Il Foie spam, too.

[Chdata]

So how can the Il techs be customized?

[Maenara]

I saw no recipes for Il-Zonde, and didn't see any achievements that would unlock Il-Zonde recipes, so I'm gonna go out on a limb and guess there's no recipes involving them yet.

[gigawuts]

Shift Period plus Zondeel support is pretty luzly. On its own, it's a little cumbersome to use, considering I have to backflip into the mob and account for the short range, but still, pretty powerful in the appropriate situations.

Shift Period with GMs is ridiculous.

I mean, GMs were ridiculous already.

But Shift Period brings it to entirely new levels.

I'm healing so many 100s, 200s, 400s, and 800s that I can't even keep track. Then, after all of that, there's a blast that hits an area larger than two gibartas (one front, one back), judging by eyeballing it. It's like Additional Bullet, so it prioritizes the weakest hitbox, meaning GU/RAs now have a tool they can reliably sroll with. The shotgun blast is so large that, honestly, it's worth it to spam it against spread out groups even if the first part of the attack won't hit anything.

Everything is wrong with this. I love it.

(I bought level 1 from the PD shop, found level 13 in desert from probably a micda)

[Arksenth]

:wacko:

Gunner was a little weaker compared to Braver, so I'm glad they balanced it!!!!

i mean those are the only two classes in the entire game right

[gigawuts]

Totally grabbing 999 heal readouts like it ain't even a thang with shift period.

[Inazuma]

Irufoie is very strong, and great uncharged with Elysion. However, it burns through your PP in just a few casts. With PP Convert 10, it's very good on bosses weak to fire, although it's still not fast enough PP regen to spam at full speed. Hopefully we can reduce the PP cost with a future recipe. And like others have said, it's ridiculously good on friend partners.

I'm surprised no one else has mentioned this yet, but Iruzonde lets Forces travel as fast as players doing quad dashing. The charged version is about the same travel speed as the uncharged version, but it uses less PP so you can travel much farther. One of the biggest problems with Forces was their slow travel speed, so it's very nice to see that solved.

Psycho Wand may not be the best weapon for fire techs anymore. Prior to this update, it was the best weapon for Nafoie on fast moving bosses. Uncharged Irufoie with Elysion might be better than that now. But that doesn't mean Psycho Wand is completely worthless. It is the best weapon for Iruzonde, thanks to the large PP reduction.

[Kondibon]

I think Il Zonde might give melee techers a way to close gaps better. Particularly when bossing since bosses have always been the weakness of melee techers.

[Radical Dreamer]

No one seems to be talking about the new Gunslash PA. I guess it's nothing special?

... Damn. I really wanted a PA that'd make melee with the Gunslash fun.

[Arksenth]

The Gunslash PA seems to be really good paired with Kreisenschlag, which gets a significant boost at Lv. 16, but let's be honest - pretty much everyone only uses gunslash for additional bullet, and not even very much anymore.

Although if you're doing a dedicated gunslash build, it's a worthy PA.

[ShinMaruku]

I am somewhat pleased with Il Foie and Il zonde but I need a wand for that. XD

Good soon Sega will hit that wall good to see it coming.

[Chdata]

I view Il Zonde as a great way to escape your own self-zondeels.

[Sacrificial]

I use regenschlach for traveling

[Chdata]

What drops il foie again? I don't recall seeing anyone posting it.

[Kikikiki]

Any enemy in SH Volcanic AQ. I just got a Lv16 one but I can't even use it.

[gigawuts]

I also just picked up an Il Zonde 16 in desert, in case I didn't mention it before.

And 15, and 11, and 8.

[Kondibon]

I just checked out the twin dagger PA, and was disappointed to find it out was just a grapple. It does what it does well, but I already have orchestra 16 which fills the same roll and does more damage.
Shame, I liked how it looked.Felt I should respond to this now that I've used it a bit more.

Folia has a few other things going for it. Namely, the animation has invincibility frames, and the last hit tracks really far, so I think it might be good for bosses. Can't do much about the damage though.

[Chdata]

When are the invincibility frames exactly? When you actually release?

[Kondibon]

When are the invincibility frames exactly? When you actually release?
They start as soon as your character first disappears and end right before the last hit I think. It's kinda hard to test.

[Chdata]

Oh you mean il zonde.

I thought you meant il foie lol.

[Kondibon]

Oh you mean il zonde.

I thought you meant il foie lol.
No, I said Folia. D: The Dagger PA. Sorry.

I WISH Il Zonde had I-frames

[Shadowth117]

I'm surprised no one else has mentioned this yet, but Iruzonde lets Forces travel as fast as players doing quad dashing. The charged version is about the same travel speed as the uncharged version, but it uses less PP so you can travel much farther. One of the biggest problems with Forces was their slow travel speed, so it's very nice to see that solved.


Unless you've got a good way to cancel that to kill the ending lag, than you've basically just got a fancier looking walk.

[Inazuma]

Unless you've got a good way to cancel that to kill the ending lag, than you've basically just got a fancier looking walk.

A fancier looking walk that is much faster than running? You would be correct.

[Zorafim]

A fancier looking walk that is much faster than running? You would be correct.

You read what he said, right?


Folia has a few other things going for it. Namely, the animation has invincibility frames, and the last hit tracks really far, so I think it might be good for bosses. Can't do much about the damage though.

Eh. You can cancel into invincibility frames out of almost any dagger PA midair anyway. Tracking may be interesting, but that first hit might be hard to get on a boss you'd care about that.

[Rehal]

I'm surprised no one else has mentioned this yet, but Iruzonde lets Forces travel as fast as players doing quad dashing.

http://a.gifb.in/3507yu7037.gif
When is mlg quad-iruzonde vid?



One of the biggest problems with Forces was their slow travel speed, so it's very nice to see that solved.
If spending PP to gain a travel boost was the solution then it had been solved since a long time ago.

[Kondibon]

I'm pretty sure it's faster than walking even with the delay, but the delay probably makes it slower than quad dashing over long distances. On the other hand you can use it from the subpallet and without switching weapons, so a force or techer might find it useful even if they're already quad dashing like how people use ass buster or straight charge.

[Xaelouse]

gunslash PA is okay, what's even better is that you can dash cancel right after the s-atk portion if you feel as though the gunshots take up much time for little payout. With the gunshots on FI/HU it deals good damage for a gap-closer.

[Shadowth117]

I'm pretty sure it's faster than walking even with the delay, but the delay probably makes it slower than quad dashing over long distances. On the other hand you can use it from the subpallet and without switching weapons, so a force or techer might find it useful even if they're already quad dashing like how people use ass buster or straight charge.

Problem is still, again, the fact that it can't be canceled (Unless I'm very mistaken) which is why those pa's are at all useful for travel. Asagiri has always done what it does now, but it wasn't cancelable before. Now that it is, there's reason to use it for that purpose. Unfortunately, Ill Zonde does not have this feature and so is not useful for that purpose barring it receiving the same treatment as Asagiri.

[TaigaUC]

If spending PP to gain a travel boost was the solution then it had been solved since a long time ago.

Except you have to consider that casters have bolt reduction and PP regen talents.
That doesn't apply in other travel boost cases.
That makes Il Zonde worth considering for travel.


I'm pretty sure it's faster than walking even with the delay, but the delay probably makes it slower than quad dashing over long distances. On the other hand you can use it from the subpallet and without switching weapons, so a force or techer might find it useful even if they're already quad dashing like how people use ass buster or straight charge.

I've heard that in side-by-side comparisons Il Zonde is faster than walking/running.
Probably doesn't compare to step dashing, but I think it'd be useful in situations where you don't want to change weapons (for whatever reason).
If anything, it's probably best when combined with Wand Lovers.


Problem is still, again, the fact that it can't be canceled (Unless I'm very mistaken) which is why those pa's are at all useful for travel. Asagiri has always done what it does now, but it wasn't cancelable before. Now that it is, there's reason to use it for that purpose. Unfortunately, Ill Zonde does not have this feature and so is not useful for that purpose barring it receiving the same treatment as Asagiri.

You're talking about the pause at the end of it?
I'm not sure how significant that pause is. Maybe they will make it cancellable later.

Personally, I don't like the "standing with arm up" animation of Il Zonde.
I was expecting a leaning forward dive-forward kind of attack.

[Kondibon]

Problem is still, again, the fact that it can't be canceled (Unless I'm very mistaken) which is why those pa's are at all useful for travel. Asagiri has always done what it does now, but it wasn't cancelable before. Now that it is, there's reason to use it for that purpose. Unfortunately, Ill Zonde does not have this feature and so is not useful for that purpose barring it receiving the same treatment as Asagiri.Yeah, you're right, which is why I said it's probably not as fast as quad dashing in the long run. I did use it to catch up to people though. There might be a pause at the end but it takes you really far each time.

[pkemr4]

the new gunner PA has pretty good Mobbing capabilitys

[Kondibon]

the new gunner PA has pretty good Mobbing capabilitysIt's strong, and I'm glad it's balanced enough that it isn't wtfcrazy single target damage too. It's REALLY good if you have a lot of enemies to hit but against one or two the usual PAs are still good.

[FacelessRed]

I just checked out the twin dagger PA, and was disappointed to find it out was just a grapple. It does what it does well, but I already have orchestra 16 which fills the same roll and does more damage.
Shame, I liked how it looked.

Orchestra - Takes about the same amount of time to cast fully, 0 invincibility frames. power at 16 is 903 PP is 30, cannot be cancelled until just before the final attack animation, Final attack animation is where most of the attack power comes from.

Facet Folia - About the same amount of time as Orchestra slightly longer, Full invicibility during cast animation, CAN be cancelled with the block button at any time during the animation, Power at 16 is 600 (but the initial slashes hit harder than Orchestra initial slashes)

Seriously, choosing Orchestra in a real fight is not a wise choice, and it's always been a horrible attack. Using it just gets you battered, and you can rarely complete the attack due to being hit-flinched. I'll be sticking with the new move.

Oh, and I forgot to mention Facet Folia also Builds Gear + 1

[Chdata]

Shift period is ridiculous during pse bursts, especially with zondeel.

Every shot does like 4k damage which is about as rapid as infinite fire but in an AoE around you that aims for weak spots, and the final blast hits 8k twice to everything with even more range than the first part of the PA.

[strikerhunter]

Shift period is ridiculous during pse bursts, especially with zondeel.

Every shot does like 4k damage which is about as rapid as infinite fire but in an AoE around you that aims for weak spots, and the final blast hits 8k twice to everything with even more range than the first part of the PA.

What lv shift period if I may ask.

I'm seeing 3-4k SP and 6-8k finishers with lv 10 SP.

[jooozek]

the range on shift period is really short, i dont see how you utilise that tiny sphere in pse bursts

[Kikikiki]

Maybe if it's not Exit Burst then Shift Period may have some use, but during Exit Bursts in AQ I still stick with Heel Stab.

[Arksenth]

Zondeel.

Oh god, seriously. TE in SH AQ is insane. I've gotten 6 11s today and that's just because having a TE in your party enables you to get 4x Cross Bursts literally anywhere you get a burst.

[strikerhunter]

Sroll <if mobs are front, turn character then roll> towards closest cluster amount of mobs-->SP-->Done. Also, I think it's finisher is much bigger than the sphere.

[MetalDude]

The finishing shot seems to have near Additional Bullet range.

[Walkure]

http://i.imgur.com/YwTiaFD.png
Why are they planning to add another single-target grab?

[strikerhunter]

http://i.imgur.com/YwTiaFD.png
Why are they planning to add another single-target grab?

April I think?

[LonelyGaruga]

http://i.imgur.com/YwTiaFD.png
Why are they planning to add another single-target grab?

Apparently, it powers up attacks temporarily after being performed, so it's a little better than being just another grab attack.

@Strike: Why, not when.

[strikerhunter]

Opps my bad, read that wrong.

I think I heard it works similar to Banish Arrow? But I'm kinda concern for that PA when it comes to bosses.

[jooozek]

Sroll <if mobs are front, turn character then roll> towards closest cluster amount of mobs-->SP-->Done. Also, I think it's finisher is much bigger than the sphere.

perfect case scenario, eh? yet to see any of those

[Chdata]

pretty similar between level 1 to 10.

level 1 was only like 400-500 less damage or something

[strikerhunter]

perfect case scenario, eh? yet to see any of those

I've personally mostly ran into those scenarios in SHAQs so far today. But I kinda did conclude that it is crap towards heavy targets and bosses since it's really a mobbing PA. Scenario is too common in TD but not great for heavy mobs and bosses <tested>

Basically, if I ever see 4+ mobs grouped (either spawned, burst, zondeel, but mainly aggro on sight) up I'll just roll once or twice depending on the distance and SP the heck out of them but it's real lovely and works wonders with a coordinated zondeel FO (better than HS in that scenario IMO). I also notice its better off in midair.


pretty similar between level 1 to 10.

level 1 was only like 400-500 less damage or something

I guess that's good news in my case to hunt for lv 16 SP then.

[Walkure]

Might actually be useful if you can amplify damage on a boss's weak point with that. It'd have to be something like falz arm after a pound, ragne after falling down, etc, but it could be useful.

Man, it'd be hilarious if Sacrifice Bite damage affected other Sacrifice Bites and multiple sword users, combined with WB/Zanverse, could create a positive feedback loop. Even if it worked it'd be kinda hard to find a mob stationary for that long for it to be useful.

[strikerhunter]

I think sacrifice bite holds the mob which is what I worry since......grapple doesn't work on bosses.

[otaku998]

I wish they had included a small gap-closer step for Facet Folia cuz it is pretty easy to miss and thus fail to do the skill : /

Otherwise it is ok, fancy and flashy but i guess not enough to make me go back to Fi again.

[Inazuma]

Problem is still, again, the fact that it can't be canceled (Unless I'm very mistaken) which is why those pa's are at all useful for travel. Asagiri has always done what it does now, but it wasn't cancelable before. Now that it is, there's reason to use it for that purpose. Unfortunately, Ill Zonde does not have this feature and so is not useful for that purpose barring it receiving the same treatment as Asagiri.

To use Iruzonde for travel, all you have to do is keep using the charged version. That means walking slowly while charging, using the tech when it's charged, then charging it again, etc.

When you are walking slowly and charging it, you are traveling slowly. The slight pause after using the tech, you are traveling slowly. But when you are actually using the tech, you more than make up for the slow parts. The overall movement speed is the same as someone using quad dash. Maybe if it's even faster if you alternate Iruzonde with Step.

And while it does use PP, like someone else already said, it's not that bad if you have Bolt Tech PP Save, and use PP related latents.

Spamming the uncharged version of Iruzonde will move you at the same overall speed too, but it uses up PP much faster.

[Kikikiki]

perfect case scenario, eh? yet to see any of those

Cross Burst in one of the corners of forest SH AQ (not gate) has proven SP to be amazing as fuck. Our party got x4 CB without any zondeel, just 4 Gunners spamming that PA. But outside of that, having a TE is still superior.

[Zipzo]

I view Il Zonde as a great way to escape your own self-zondeels.

This would be a terrible idea since it ignites Zondeel.

I know we're all stuck on the conversation of TA dashing but let me be the first to say that I've come to start using Il Zonde religiously for combat mobility. It's essentially a longer duration step that takes you further.

[otaku998]

IL Zonde for gap closer than switch to melee to hit feel so cool though. Is Fi/Te or Fi/Fo a thing?

[gigawuts]

http://i.imgur.com/YwTiaFD.png
Why are they planning to add another single-target grab?

Because they really just don't know anything about their game.

I think sacrifice bite holds the mob which is what I worry since......grapple doesn't work on bosses.

Grapple works on bosses - it just doesn't actually grapple them.

A grapple attack, like almost any other attack, will just deal damage to a set location. Usually anything in this location will take the damage (exceptions for special cases such as the extra hits of Holding Current). What makes a grapple attack unique is this set location may move, and an enemy is dragged around with that location or just held in place.

Bosses cannot be dragged around, however the attack has an orb - if an enemy is close enough to the orb they'll get hit anyway.

This attack should work just fine on bosses if they stand still.

[Daiyousei]

IL Zonde for gap closer than switch to melee to hit feel so cool though. Is Fi/Te or Fi/Fo a thing?

Chidori!

[Kondibon]

IL Zonde for gap closer than switch to melee to hit feel so cool though. Is Fi/Te or Fi/Fo a thing?I started experimenting with it for Fi/Te. It's one of the techs I have on my pallet now because it's so useful even without damage, a lot like the support techs.

Also it reminds me of the Ride the Lightning skill from GW2 :U

[otaku998]

Lol you two, now i cannot unsee that

[FacelessRed]

I wish they had included a small gap-closer step for Facet Folia cuz it is pretty easy to miss and thus fail to do the skill : /

Otherwise it is ok, fancy and flashy but i guess not enough to make me go back to Fi again.

Dunno why but it seems to land easier after Symphonic Drive. even with that retarded back motion it will land on a boss.

[Sanguine2009]

IL Zonde for gap closer than switch to melee to hit feel so cool though. Is Fi/Te or Fi/Fo a thing?

fi/fo and fi/te are not really things, te/fi on the other hand gets alot of use out of il zonde as a gap closer as does te/hu

[otaku998]

Dunno why but it seems to land easier after Symphonic Drive. even with that retarded back motion it will land on a boss.

o


Really now? With that retarded backmotion it should be missing..eh i will try that later.

[Arksenth]

Oh. Trivia time, Irufoie has inscriptions just like Namegid too.

http://www.pso2-uploader.info/uploda/src/up94925.jpg

[Sanguine2009]

sweet its from the jabberwocky?

[arnd]

So Namegid quoted Macbeth, and Ilfoie quotes Jabberwocky, of all things? Seems quite inconsistent of technique creators.

EDIT: though still awesome. Darkers will tremble before the power of literature.

[aphelion]

I'm hoping the new one will quote Sir Mixalot.

Seriously, who cares?

I'm more concerned with IlFoie spam and it covering my screen when I'm in melee trying to fight.

[GoldenFalcon]

I started experimenting with it for Fi/Te. It's one of the techs I have on my pallet now because it's so useful even without damage, a lot like the support techs.

I just wish there was a twin dagger with magic power that wasn't the silly Marie Nails. Maybe the latent on the Heart of Poumn will prove awesome with this combo.

[Chdata]

the range on shift period is really short, i dont see how you utilise that tiny sphere in pse bursts

I utilize it on spots enemies tend to spawn all at once together and on zondeels. If there's a good fo in the party then you have a good pse burst.

Of course, I don't just spam shift shift shift, sometimes I use inf fire or whatever the name of that flip kick and shoot was that I rarely use now thanks to shift period.

[Arksenth]

I utilize it on spots enemies tend to spawn all at once together and on zondeels. If there's a good fo in the party then you have a good pse burst.

Of course, I don't just spam shift shift shift, sometimes I use inf fire or whatever the name of that flip kick and shoot was that I rarely use now thanks to shift period.

I like joining 3/4 parties of GUs and BRs with my TE and watch as we grt 3 or 4 full cross bursts every run. Best party set up ever lewl.

[Zipzo]

Zondeel isn't like a Techer exclusive tech.

[Arksenth]

Territory Burst is really needed to get the most oomph out of it, and who brings FO/TE to SH? Wand Gear is great to do some supplementary damage while keeping your pp topped up anyway.

[Zipzo]

Territory Burst is really needed to get the most oomph out of it, and who brings FO/TE to SH? Wand Gear is great to do some supplementary damage while keeping your pp topped up anyway.

Arguably a Braver/Techer can still do the same thing while having a higher potential to kill heavy opponents much faster.

[Arksenth]

...Even Shunka isn't anything much without HU's double-damage modifier driving it, you know. Just get an Elysion if you want to take down heavies instantly.

[LonelyGaruga]

Braver/Techer would have obscene PP burn anyway. Awful PP regen outside Ketos Proi and PP Convert, Zondeel costs what, 18 after 5 points in TB Save? Shunka Shunran's 40 PP, and you're stuck either Step canceling it to Zondeel and burning more PP or doing the full attack and not being able to Zondeel. Techer/Hunter and Techer/Fighter not having to expend PP to kill stuff after using Zondeel is a massive advantage compared to /Techer combos.

[Arksenth]

If you're using Katana, there goes most of your class synergy just because of stances anyway. You want Weak Stance for Techs, and Average Stance for Katana...

I mean, maybe you could use a bow, sure, but I doubt you'd even be anywhere close to one-shotting mobs without the boost of HU, and then you have to contend with even WORSE PP burn.

[Zipzo]

Braver/Techer would have obscene PP burn anyway. Awful PP regen outside Ketos Proi and PP Convert, Zondeel costs what, 18 after 5 points in TB Save? Shunka Shunran's 40 PP, and you're stuck either Step canceling it to Zondeel and burning more PP or doing the full attack and not being able to Zondeel. Techer/Hunter and Techer/Fighter not having to expend PP to kill stuff after using Zondeel is a massive advantage compared to /Techer combos.

The point I'm making is that being useful purely for Zondeel speaks to Zondeel, not the class he/you/I am currently playing, I'm not really making a class vs class based argument (though I still think a Braver/Te can out-damage a melee techer easily).

[Arksenth]

It's not like you're just going to be doing Zondeels all around, you have several seconds between Zondeels to get something in. Dealing massive 1hkos to mob clusters, freeing up spawns for even more chain spawns, while recovering your PP for the next Zondeel all in one go, seems ideal to me.

[Zipzo]

It's not like you're just going to be doing Zondeels all around, you have several seconds between Zondeels to get something in. Dealing massive 1hkos to mob clusters, freeing up spawns for even more chain spawns, while recovering your PP for the next Zondeel all in one go, seems ideal to me.

Seems like that happens anyway if you're partied with Bravers or Gunners in the first place. In fact you can just run around in circles spamming Zondeel, only hitting to recover PP when necessary, and your party mates will probably kill the enemies quicker than you can swing in most cases.

I play a melee techer, don't get me wrong I love the class I play, but let's be realistic and not ignore the strength of the power house classes you're running with.

[Arksenth]

No, you stay in one location because otherwise the BRs and GUs don't know where to consistently aim. And it doesn't matter anyway because everything is running towards you and you're consistently suctioning them in.

And I've done dozens of SH AQ bursts; the mobs respawn fast enough that even with three powerhouse classes, they're not anywhere getting complete coverage that you can't get a few shots in. The extra bit of damage helps, and more so than any other combination with TE you could conceivably bring.

[Zipzo]

No, you stay in one location because otherwise the BRs and GUs don't know where to consistently aim. And it doesn't matter anyway because everything is running towards you and you're consistently suctioning them in.

Uh...yeah that's why I said "run around in circles". I meant right in the same spot, because running in little circles while doing something boring makes it more fun, but more importantly keeps you from getting flinched.


And I've done dozens of SH AQ bursts; the mobs respawn fast enough that even with three powerhouse classes, they're not anywhere getting complete coverage that you can't get a few shots in. The extra bit of damage helps, and more so than any other combination with TE you could conceivably bring.

I'm not saying that you shouldn't swing when you can. Br/Te can still out-damage melee techers.

[LonelyGaruga]

Whether they can outdamage them or not doesn't change that their PP regen is worse. Even if Br/Te does outdamage Te/Hu or Te/Fi in the short term, it absolutely will not do so for the long term, because it will be running short on PP, especially for lengthy bursts. There will be points where you either can't Zondeel or can't Shunka, while Te/Hu and Te/Fi will never have issues not having the PP for Zondeel, and will never have to worry about not being able to do decent damage.

[Aine]

Arksenth too poor to do exit bursts

the best party is four rangers

[Zipzo]

Whether they can outdamage them or not doesn't change that their PP regen is worse. Even if Br/Te does outdamage Te/Hu or Te/Fi in the short term, it absolutely will not do so for the long term, because it will be running short on PP, especially for lengthy bursts. There will be points where you either can't Zondeel or can't Shunka, while Te/Hu and Te/Fi will never have issues not having the PP for Zondeel, and will never have to worry about not being able to do decent damage.

Well if everything dies in the short term...kinda like it does.

Also...a Braver/Techer can easily out damage a melee techer in the long term. Katana combat...PP Restraint...Katana melee isn't weak by any stretch and it also hits multiple enemies, yeah it's not quite nearly as terrible as you're making it out to be.

Hitting a giant pack of mobs that doesn't die in one hit? For sure, melee techer will win.

[Arksenth]

Katana Melee with no Fury Stance bonuses - or if you're choosing to prioritize teching over melee, also no Average Stance bonuses? Yeah no.

[Zipzo]

Katana Melee with no Fury Stance bonuses - or if you're choosing to prioritize teching over melee, also no Average Stance bonuses? Yeah no.

This guy doesn't seem to have trouble doing damage.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lNeutfzqSos

[Arksenth]

...His Sakura-Endo does 3k damage a hit on Decol Malluda's core. You cannot be kidding when you say that's more damage than melee TE. Regardless of whether you're talking about techs or wand smacks.

[Zipzo]

...His Sakura-Endo does 3k damage a hit on Decol Malluda's core. You cannot be kidding when you say that's more damage than melee TE. Regardless of whether you're talking about techs or wand smacks.

I didn't mention any specific PA or Tech...but I doubt you can kill that boss faster as a melee techer.

That was actually a slow run. There's this one...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UXFCkhMCU60

[Chdata]

Yea but nothing beats shunka atm lol

[Arksenth]

My Sazan with Elysion instantly does 4k damage a hit for 12k total damage on Malluda's core; it costs 8 PP, and I have 154 PP. I could pump out maybe 200k+ damage in less than 10 seconds with that.

Once that pool's gone, Wand Lovers activate, hone in close range, smack for 3k+2k damage hits, rinse and repeat with Sazan.

If I'm not feeling lazy, I can do the Zan boomerang route for more synergistic play.

That is definitely going to be faster than a Katana without any major multipliers at all.

And that's literally the worst situation you can put a TE in anyway.

[Zipzo]

My Sazan with Elysion instantly does 4k damage a hit for 12k total damage on Malluda's core; it costs 8 PP, and I have 154 PP. I could pump out maybe 200k+ damage in less than 10 seconds with that.

Once that pool's gone, Wand Lovers activate, hone in close range, smack for 3k+2k damage hits, rinse and repeat with Sazan.

If I'm not feeling lazy, I can do the Zan boomerang route for more synergistic play.

That is definitely going to be faster than a Katana without any major multipliers at all.

And that's literally the worst situation you can put a TE in anyway.

Sure buddy, I'll wait for the video.

[Chdata]

I've only been hitting like 1500 per hit with my sazans but I've been stuck with umbla stick for a long time as te (though, vibras rod didn't seem to boost it that much either) but I haven't tried it on decol malluda much. Literally as this emergency maint happened I was able to equip ely for the first time and haven't gotten to try it.

Zipzo: I've already seen videos of it.

Video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kn9v1JEKc38

Looking at that, it's stronger than what I usually see using infinity fire on Remilia, aside from the downtime when you run out of PP, so we'll see.

[Zipzo]

I've only been hitting like 1500 per hit with my sazans but I've been stuck with umbla stick for a long time as te (though, vibras rod didn't seem to boost it that much either) but I haven't tried it on decol malluda much. Literally as this emergency maint happened I was able to equip ely for the first time and haven't gotten to try it.

Zipzo: I've already seen videos of it.

Let's see it then...I'm open to be wow-ed.

[Arksenth]

<_< Should be video evidence enough - factor in that is without the Sazan craft recipe, so you can get double the hits in, and instead of switching to Gunslash, you're able to get in close and deal decent damage for PP. Might take a little longer because you have to approach, but certainly not as terrible as BR/TE would be.

Even BR and GU are nothing without the fury stance bonuses.

[Zipzo]

I've only been hitting like 1500 per hit with my sazans but I've been stuck with umbla stick for a long time as te (though, vibras rod didn't seem to boost it that much either) but I haven't tried it on decol malluda much. Literally as this emergency maint happened I was able to equip ely for the first time and haven't gotten to try it.

Zipzo: I've already seen videos of it.

Video: PSO2 Uncharged Sazan spam with Elysion Te/Br - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kn9v1JEKc38)

Looking at that, it's stronger than what I usually see using infinity fire on Remilia, aside from the downtime when you run out of PP, so we'll see.

I don't wanna kill your buzz...

...but that's not a melee techer. They don't even have Wand Gear.

I have in each and every post specifically said melee techer.

[GoldenFalcon]

melee techer

Would a melee techer only use wand gear whacks?

[Zipzo]

Would a melee techer only use wand gear whacks?

At the very absolute minimum, maybe at least 40%-50% of the time.

Which is a far cry from the video where the player only makes contact with the boss 4 times total, each smack dealing pitiful damage. You can't call that a melee techer.

[Arksenth]

Yes, because the whole point of going a hybrid class with multiple offensive options is to pigeonhole yourself into a playstyle that you stick with exactly for every single possible situation.

Okay, I think I'm done being entertained by you now.

[GoldenFalcon]

At the very absolute minimum, 40%-50% of the time.

I was playing around with the idea of using Windmill with Zanverse and doing hilarious wand whacking. Charged Sazan/Zan would be used for 5+ seconds of gear before each Zanverse.
In the case of 'trash mobs', Nagrants into Zondeel.

I just don't know how reliable it is to stand there and auto attack

[Zipzo]

Yes, because the whole point of going a hybrid class with multiple offensive options is to pigeonhole yourself into a playstyle that you stick with exactly for every single possible situation.

Okay, I think I'm done being entertained by you now.

They don't even have Wand Gear. You can't even begin to scratch the surface of what it means to melee as a Techer at all without that skill.

It's you who is laughable.

[Chdata]

I don't wanna kill your buzz...

...but that's not a melee techer. They don't even have Wand Gear.

I have in each and every post specifically said melee techer.

Oh, I thought this was the skill tree builds thread and you were contending that it's impossible to hit multiple 4k with sazan. I don't care at all about melee techer right now.

Still, arguing that anything can beat shunka is kinda... lol... obviously nothing can because it's op right now.

You can calm down now, cause you're starting to sound like you're getting really worked up over video game mechanics.

A melee techer probably only uses techs like zan to get full gear then zondeel and melee stuff. Usually takes me like one zan to get full gear, wind spells are p good for it. I'm not sure how they actually do it cause zondeeling yourself never works out.

Edit: The again, you actually did sound like you were denying sazan was a thing... I could link you a video of people hitting multiple ~2k's with wand gear if you like, and if you piece the two together then you know it's possible to do what arksenth is stating.

[WildarmsRE5]

I'm pretty sure Arksenth already has the rainbow collection of elysion made for zondeel + whacking considering the amount of meset. . . nvm.

[Zipzo]

You can calm down now, cause you're starting to sound like you're getting really worked up over video game mechanics.

http://i2.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/372/765/3a8.gif

Also I've never even posted in that thread so I have no idea what you're on about.

What I do find amazing is how you can feel emotions through text on a screen, and I haven't even given you the benefit of capital letters and exclamation points.

[Chdata]

I just told you that I thought I was posting in another thread.

And it's coming from the context of your light ad hominem / word usage.

[LonelyGaruga]

Well if everything dies in the short term...kinda like it does.

Also...a Braver/Techer can easily out damage a melee techer in the long term. Katana combat...PP Restraint...Katana melee isn't weak by any stretch and it also hits multiple enemies, yeah it's not quite nearly as terrible as you're making it out to be.

Hitting a giant pack of mobs that doesn't die in one hit? For sure, melee techer will win.

Short term is not the first three seconds a mob spawns. At least, that isn't what I mean when I say short term. Short term is at most a minute into the burst. Long term is multiple One Mores. That's what I'm thinking of, at any rate. I seriously do not see a Braver/Techer successfully maintaining enough PP to consistently spam PAs throughout while also being able to Zondeel. Shunka alone is going to ensure that they aren't going to be able to consistently Zondeel where necessary.

If Braver/Techer outdamages a melee Techer unconditionally, it will still have issues with consistently getting Zondeel out as necessary between the animation of its PAs and the PP regen necessary. Katana melee isn't weak, but it's worse than melee Techer...well, melee, by far, especially with only Braver's skill tree buffing its damage (unless you count EWH). If you are using Shunka, then you're going to constantly be burning through your PP, so you're going to have to stick with Katana melee to regen PP pretty frequently. PP Convert and Ketos Proi solve the issues to an extent, but it's very unwieldy to use a Braver like this.

Also, are you completely sure that a Braver/Techer can one-shot most, if not all, SH AQ enemies with Shunka Shunran? Preferably tested at level 70. Because if that isn't the case it becomes outright unfeasible. The time it takes to charge Shunka Shunran alone is almost enough time to land two wand swings. If the mobs are fragile enough to die to that, Shunka Shunran is almost irrelevant for this. If Shunka Shunran fails to outdamage a wand in this scenario, then it isn't worth using. If the mobs aren't fragile enough to die to that, but are fragile enough to die to Shunka Shunran, then you have a case made, but only for the enemies that match that condition.

Also, to both you and Arksenth: This is nothing more than a discussion. Treat it like one. No personal attacks from anyone involved, just argue your points and respect the person you disagree with. No need to get things personal.

[Chdata]

When you say fails to outdamage, you're saying wand fails to outdamage shunka while you are charging shunka. After that, shunka outdamages wand for the rest of its duration, wouldn't it?

[GoldenFalcon]

Shunka can be charged from a step attack while still far away from the enemy
the Shunka would start dealing damage by the time the wand techer can even be close enough, assuming he already had gear.

[Chdata]

My main problem with melee te is having to walk to everything q.q

or quad (which I do kinda sloppily) and then weapon switch

how do you guys generally do it

[Zipzo]

My main problem with melee te is having to walk to everything q.q

or quad and then weapon switch

how do you guys generally do it

Il Zonde or Elysion tricks until the boss comes back.

Before that, we were just huffin' it. Abusing dark techs was viable too.

[Kayarine]

Would Shunka even eat up that much PP? It only costs 30 PP for the damage it does.
The primary issue I can think of is being able to refresh Zondeel in time because of Shunka's long animation, in bursts.

Would a combination of katana and wand melee work? Use wand when low on PP to allow PPC/Cetos Proi to work while demolishing Zondeeled spawns, then Shunka afterwards. Or does switching weapons kill wand gear? Never tried melee Te.

[milranduil]

I didn't mention any specific PA or Tech...but I doubt you can kill that boss faster as a melee techer.

That was actually a slow run. There's this one...

?PSO2?Grimoire?SH??????????? TAKE2?Br/Te? - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UXFCkhMCU60)

They play with purely katana... why would you not just do this?
[spoiler-box]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wlrkp9MiMrA
[/spoiler-box]

The point Ark is making, which I whole-heartedly agree with (shocking...), is that you don't pigeon-hole into a specific playstyle when you have access to something like Elysion for bosses that do a superior job over wand-whacking or Fury-less katana.

[Zipzo]

Would Shunka even eat up that much PP? It only costs 30 PP for the damage it does.
The primary issue I can think of is being able to refresh Zondeel in time because of Shunka's long animation, in bursts.

Would a combination of katana and wand melee work? Use wand when low on PP to allow PPC/Cetos Proi to work while demolishing Zondeeled spawns, then Shunka afterwards. Or does switching weapons kill wand gear? Never tried melee Te.

It's true.

You can use an Acru Carta and use the wand to simply regain your PP while doing decent damage, then Katana your heart out otherwise.


They play with purely katana... why would you not just do this?
[spoiler-box]
デコル・マリューダ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wlrkp9MiMrA)
[/spoiler-box]

The point Ark is making, which I whole-heartedly agree with (shocking...), is that you don't pigeon-hole into a specific playstyle when you have access to something like Elysion for bosses that do a superior job over wand-whacking.

I always try to speak to the strong majority of players, which I believe do not have multiple skill trees available to play with. If you're built for melee techer it's unlikely you're very well suited for Elysion lolsazan spam.

[Chdata]

lol I forgot il zonde just came out.

So it's one of those, wait for them to come to you, things.

Reminds me of how I play Team Fortress 2 against enemy teams. Instead of chasing enemies, wait till they come back. Especially in zombie mods. Enemy player AI can be kinda tricky though, sometimes it's pretty hard to mass kill those things.

[milranduil]

It's true.

You can use an Acru Carta and use the wand to simply regain your PP while doing decent damage, then Katana your heart out otherwise.



I always try to speak to the strong majority of players, which I believe do not have multiple skill trees available to play with. If you're built for melee techer it's unlikely you're very well suited for Elysion lolsazan spam.

That's not an excuse until otherwise stated, especially considering there was a recent all tree reset pass. Sazan has been a thing for a long time now, Elysion or not, so there is no reason to not at least have a hybrid TE tree by now built for wand-whacking and using Sazan.

[Zipzo]

That's not an excuse until otherwise stated, especially considering there was a recent all tree reset pass. Sazan has been a thing for a long time now, Elysion or not, so there is no reason to not at least have a hybrid TE tree by now built for wand-whacking and using Sazan.

Right...except the guy in the video didn't even take Wand Gear. He's not a hybrid, he's just using the Techer tree for the wind boost, plain and simple. The irony here is the guy in that video did pigeon hole himself.

Having all reset pass =| having multiple trees to use at any time.

[milranduil]

Right...except the guy in the video didn't even take Wand Gear. He's not a hybrid, he's just using the Techer tree for the wind boost, plain and simple.

Having all reset pass =| having multiple trees to use at any time.

Yeah that's completely irrelevant to preaching wand gear-only play. My point was IF having only 1 TE tree is a worry and you're smart about it, it's built for wand gear + Sazan play, not one or the other.

[Zipzo]

Yeah that's completely irrelevant to preaching wand gear-only play. My point was IF having only 1 TE tree is a worry and you're smart about it, it's built for wand gear + Sazan play, not one or the other.

I'm not "preaching" wand gear only play. This whole conversation started simply because Arksenth doesn't believe a Braver main is capable of out-damaging a melee techer. Do you agree with that?

[Arksenth]

Work on your reading comprehension, dear.

BR/TE still sucks.

Just because it has BR in there somewhere doesn't mean it's automatically OP.

[milranduil]

I'm not "preaching" wand gear only play.


out-damaging a melee techer.

Please just stop...

[Zipzo]

Please just stop...

How do either of those quotes make any kind of contradiction? I'm trying to have a conversation here and you're talking nonsense.

[milranduil]

Melee = wand gear. You are bent on TeFi bossing with melee when it doesn't need to.

[GoldenFalcon]

We're Te/Fi now?

Heck, I was expecting Te/Hu

[Zipzo]

Work on your reading comprehension, dear.

BR/TE still sucks.

Just because it has BR in there somewhere doesn't mean it's automatically OP.

Yes...and having Zondeel on the Techer pallet doesn't make Techer OP in SHAQs...it makes Zondeel OP.

And now we've gone full circle.


Melee = wand gear. You are bent on TeFi bossing with melee when it doesn't need to.

I play TeHu, actually, which is arguably worse for bossing but them's the breaks. I can't run to swap mid-mission before a boss, can I?

This has nothing to do with what I want, I'm just stating what is.

[LonelyGaruga]

When you say fails to outdamage, you're saying wand fails to outdamage shunka while you are charging shunka. After that, shunka outdamages wand for the rest of its duration, wouldn't it?

Wands outdamage Shunka for the charging duration, definitely no doubt about that. For the shortest term possible, melee Techer wins. For anything longer than a second, if Shunka outdamages Techer at this point, in a meaningful manner, running Br/Te is warranted for this purpose. However, if they continue to go through with Shunka Shunran past the first hit, then they lose all point in running Br/Te over Br/Hu because they aren't doing the job they were supposed to in the first place: Zondeel. It must be Step canceled. And at that point, the PP cost is enough that, unless heavily affixed for PP, you can afford one, maybe two more combos of Zondeel > Shunka, and then you have to stop to regen PP with Katana melee, at which point a melee Techer would certainly have caught up in terms of damage, because Shunka is not going to be doing enough damage to make up for it.

It's also worth pointing out that if your teammates kill all the enemies as you're charging Shunka Shunran, then you just wasted 30* PP, have to Step out of it, and then charge Zondeel again.

I'd also like to submit these three videos to validate Te/Hu's damage capabilities. These are just boss runs but you can get the idea of what their damage would look like by multiplying the wand gear damage a little and taking into account better gear/potentials (gear status is shown at the beginning of each fight unless it's a repeat use of that Wand)

http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm22945017 (mid bosses)
http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm22960402 (bosses part 1)
http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm22963569 (bosses part 2)

Not sure if everyone participating in the discussion has seen them or not, but either way, it's worth pointing out that with a correct element, you're looking at around 8K per swing on 3-4 enemies. Which means that two swings should be enough to wipe out most mobs in SH AQs (Sparzyles and Micdas are one-shot, haven't done any other SH AQs so don't know how healthy they are). Also, Hunter potentials received significant buffs this update, while Negative Hunter is only 13% at level 3, all the other Hunter potentials were doubled, at 20%. Ex Wand, for example, should definitely one-shot Dragonkin mobs except Fordoran and possibly Nordiran, provided you're attacking 3-4 at once.

If these assumptions are accurate, there really isn't any reason to use Braver/Techer over Techer/Hunter, because your wand damage is already sufficient.

*Thought it was 40, thanks for the correction Kaya.


Would Shunka even eat up that much PP? It only costs 30 PP for the damage it does.
The primary issue I can think of is being able to refresh Zondeel in time because of Shunka's long animation, in bursts.

Would a combination of katana and wand melee work? Use wand when low on PP to allow PPC/Cetos Proi to work while demolishing Zondeeled spawns, then Shunka afterwards. Or does switching weapons kill wand gear? Never tried melee Te.

Wand Gear stays when switched. I think that applies for all gear weapons that accumulate, haven't tested. Wand melee would definitely suffer as a Braver/Techer, though it might be viable enough. Zondeel is honestly the biggest obstacle I think a Braver/Techer would face, there's no way they're going to be consistently able to Zondeel mobs the same way a Techer/Hunter or a Techer/Fighter could, between its lengthy animations, having to take into account the possibility of losing its charge because party members killed the mobs that were in Zondeel if the mobs don't spawn in Zondeel range, the PP regen that the Techer mains don't have to put up with, and the mobility actually being poorer at close range because Wand Lovers + step cancel techs lets you travel faster than TD dashing (not saying Braver/Techer should do this so much as giving an idea of how rapid this is, admittedly, this is only while Wand Lovers is actually active though) over short distances, so if mobs spawn in a manner that you have to run to Zondeel, you get there faster than a Braver/Techer would and have plenty of PP to spare for Zondeel (Braver/Techer can't step cancel techs as quickly because they have to put away the weapon to perform the casting animation, so Katana Step Attack is what they're stuck with).

There are so many factors against Braver/Techer for this particular scenario that I just can't see any justification to put up with these flaws to kill at most a second faster without putting consistent Zondeel output at risk. And then you have the problem of Braver/Techer not being able to afford to use Shifta, Resta, Megiverse, or what have you whenever it needs it, unlike a Techer main, who will almost always have at least half their PP bar at the very minimum.

Last thing is the mention of Acru Carta elsewhere in the thread: You are definitely not doing decent damage with that on anything that isn't an Oceanid, and Coast/Seabed AQs aren't coming around for a while. Actually, I'd like to see what a Braver/Techer skill tree would look like on the Techer side. I know you never mentioned using PP Convert Zipzo, but I'm pretty confident that's necessary to keep up with PP regen and would be better than trying to regen it through melee, especially a wand backed by no potential boost and Average Stance. If you want decent wand damage, you need Wand Lovers + Wand Gear. If you want a TB on par with Te/Hu, you must have maxed TB. If you want decent passive regen, you need PP Restorate. You might also want TB Save, PP Convert, maxed out Wand Lovers, maybe Wand Reactor...EWH...yeah, there are a lot of skills. Braver is easy, but Techer? You're going to have to make sacrifices. If this discussion is going to continue further, I think it'd be best to post a sample Br/Te build so we can establish what's being worked on for that end of things. I don't request a sample Te/Hu or Te/Fi build because like everyone in this discussion mains one of those two, but if that's necessary, then I don't see a reason not to.

[Chdata]

Why not just go brhu and leave zondeel to someone actually going a magic class.

[Zipzo]

Why not just go brhu and leave zondeel to someone actually going a magic class.

Ark's argument against that was "Fo suxlol".

[Rakurai]

Is Shift Period any good as a single-target damage dealer?

I've noticed that the finisher deals more hits to large enemies if you're in close proximity to them when it goes off.

[final_attack]

I'd stick to Hell Stab / Messiah Time / Point-blank Infinity Fire for single target o_o

[pkemr4]

Is Shift Period any good as a single-target damage dealer?

I've noticed that the finisher deals more hits to large enemies if you're in close proximity to them when it goes off.

its good for solo nab II TA when the mobs are all close together. also its a decent boss killer pa for some boss's