Ranger is UP?

[Bloothehegdehog]

It seems rangers do almost no damage at all without photon arts. I tried it out and was doing like 8-11 damage a bullet, but I did do quite alot with a rocket launcher...but that's a rocket launcher. Rangers' main gun is the rifle, It seems, since almost every ranger I've played with has a rifle that may be strong but still only does like 80 damage on bullet. Is there something I'm missing here?, because it seems ranger is a UP class compared to the others. :-?

[Maninbluejumpsuit]

It seems rangers do almost no damage at all without photon arts.

You should be using your PP no matter what class you are, so this is kinda irrelevant.

Also, many RA PAs get alot stronger at lvl16 only because sega logic.

Also, RA is among the strongest classes. Did you not get weak bullet?

[Dark Ace]

We'll for ranger Weak Bullet is a must have... In my opinion look into getting that to 10/10 on skill tree

[Sacrificial]

Well first of all what is your level? Second your subclass?

ranger needs a minimum lv of 28 for both weak hit advance. those are a must have. Also don't forget to JA(just attack). Basic attacks are just for pp restoration.

Ra can easily one shot mobs at Sh if you get some lv 16 PA's but vh shouldnt be a problem even with lv 10ish.

[MetalDude]

RA requires finesse to really bring out the power in them. They're more than capable of one-shotting a huge number of SH mobs, albeit they are a little slow to the punch compared to other classes. They have very high versatility which also means knowing when to use the right PA at the right time.

[Gen2000]

For Normal through Very Hard Launcher is better for general mob killing than Rifle: Divine Launcher, Cluster Bomb in TPS mode, and Divine Launcher should cover a lot of situations better than Rifle. Gunslashes Additional Bullet and Thrillerplode also good too.

Once you're on Super Hard and can get lv.16 Diffuse Shell Rifle it's a nice alternative in some situations since mobs mainly rush up to your face after spawning and the power boost of lv.16 Diffuse Shell should allow you one-shot all the small through medium size mobs in one nice cluster.

Outside of that Rifle is mainly pulled out for Weak Bullet > Sneak Shooter, Homing Emission, or lv.16 Impact Slider on bosses.

Also your mindset of play style should probably change some. This not really a game when normal attacks is worth much as a main attack, just a way to build PP again to spam Photon Arts.

Edit: Bah, said Standing Snipe instead of Sneak Shooter.

[Chdata]

Standing snipe can't effect impact slider, right?

[MetalDude]

It can as SS comes into effect and applies during the whole PA as long as you were standing still for a second before using it. What you can't do is chain SS out of Impact Slider because you were moving after the PA ended.

[Chdata]

lol, I feel less bad about getting a 12* rifle now.

[UnLucky]

Pretty sure you should be using Photon Arts as much as possible

[Triple_S]

Ranger would probably be UP compared to other classes if Weak Bullet wasn't a thing, tbh. Well, maybe not UP, but it's already not quite on par with other classes. Like Hunter, it's pretty much a better subclass than a main class. Also like Hunter, it has an entire side of the skill tree filled with useless skills surrounding like two or three good ones; the good skills will rarely get used if ever because we just don't have the SP to get them without sacrificing damage. Thankfully Ranger has less in the way of critical skills on the left side compared to Hunter, so it's more manageable.

[Chdata]

Ranger, all you really have to do, is weak bullet and afk.

If the extra damage done by everyone else counted as yours, you'd see constant 20k-30k hitsplats from every other player (Braver) around you. 4k-8k splats from gunners. Etc.

The pros can weak bullet, and spam PAs.

[Horo The Wise Wolf]

Ranger UP?

Hahah....

Heheh....

This is a joke, right?

[Edson Drake]

It's more like underplayed than underpowered.

My most played class, it is lagging behind the others(meaning Bravers and Gunners) because they are the OP classes right now, easy to pick-up and play, making the others look weak in comparison. I agree, however they are in dire need of a buff, even a revamp.

The "Tool" skill tree is useless and unappealing, since it requires ammo, and judging by the numbers, seem quite weak. The PAs are some of the most neglected and weak in the game.
Look at One Point, a would-be full-auto attack, looks like it would be very powerful, but it barely does higher damage than JA normal attacks while using PP, locking your character into place(even in the air), Piercing Shell, that gets outshined completely by Sneak Shooter, since the piercing effect is useless with a single bullet.

And while other PAs are powerful(Impact Slider, Diffuse Shell), they are not as powerful as the current OP PAs like Shunka Shunran and Infinite Fire.
They are trickier to use, requiring strategy, while as a Gunner you can literally roll backwards and IF, repeat that over and over, you'll be ok. It's a very lazy(yet powerful) gameplay style.

A complete revamp of the skill trees(just like Force) would be the solution, but if we even get that, new powerful PAs would help, especially for the Launcher. I would be happy with OP lv17 versions of current PAs too, whatever works.

[The Walrus]

Ranger UP?

Hahah....

Heheh....

This is a joke, right?

This.

[2128drain]

I feel like WB shouldn't really factor into Ranger being over or underpowered, considering it leaves you with only being able to use PAs and not recover PP without using Tactics Trap and Killing Bonus - which you need to be at almost Zero Range to get anything out of and Dive Roll is so awful that you need some serious practice to get out of anything with it.

Ranger goes pretty well with Hunter, as Fury Stance gives it a really hefty punch (50k hits of Diffuse on a WB boss isn't unheard of, though obviously nowhere near what a Katana or TMG user can fart out) and doesn't do too badly with a Bow/Weak focused Braver tree (but then why wouldn't you use a Katana since it's basically a win button?), but it does need serious work and fixing.

The tree is simply awful. Weak Hit Blast Bonus? Really? Power Bullet and PP Save Bullet would be really handy, but they're in a section of the tree that nobody should touch. All the bullet/grenade types aside from Weak aren't worth using because everything dies too quick anyway and grenades need ammo. Traps are only worth speccing for Tactics Trap, and even then that's incredibly debateable. It sure was hilarious when they silently nerfed those, even though NOBODY uses them.

A lot of the PAs are outright awful (Piercing Shell, Glorious Rain, Homing Emission though I know some people swear by it, never did anything for me) though L16 did make some of them like Impact, Diffuse, Concentrate One and Flame Bullet pretty alright. And then there's Fake Silhouette, which is a neat idea but absolutely doesn't work due to it generating less hate than a Rod-bonk.

Ranger can be good, but it really needs a serious overhaul.

[MetalDude]

Homing Emission is god tier for single-target damage because you lock on to a bunch of targets and unleash it at close range on one target.

[pkemr4]

weakbullet a boss's weappoint and then JA Homing emission and just target random spots and then release trigger and do massive dmg.

/ninja's

[WildarmsRE5]

Ranger goes pretty well with Hunter, as Fury Stance gives it a really hefty punch (50k hits of Diffuse on a WB boss isn't unheard of, though obviously nowhere near what a Katana or TMG user can fart out) and doesn't do too badly with a Bow/Weak focused Braver tree (but then why wouldn't you use a Katana since it's basically a win button?), but it does need serious work and fixing.

The tree is simply awful. Weak Hit Blast Bonus? Really? Power Bullet and PP Save Bullet would be really handy, but they're in a section of the tree that nobody should touch. (Piercing Shell, Glorious Rain, Homing Emission though I know some people swear by it, never did anything for me)

Ranger can be good, but it really needs a serious overhaul.ha. . . hahahahah.

50k Diffuse shell on WB? seems weak. try going back and achieving 120k. (unless we're talking about casual gear here)

in my experience, Br/Ra nukes faster than Br/Hu, cause WB + Banishing + Last is OP.

and about Weak Hit Blast, haven't you heard of Ketos Spamming? and Homing Emission is a great alternative to Impact Slider 16, assuming you know how to use it.

sorry, had to get this off my heart.

EDIT: ninja'd

[Triple_S]

The "Tool" skill tree is useless and unappealing, since it requires ammo, and judging by the numbers, seem quite weak.

Pretty much. They're weak, limited, and slow. If they were cooldown-based skills with really short cooldowns, that alone would make them far more appealing. Increasing set-up speed and the grenade speed would also do wonders. Finally, make all tools their own tree. We have the "Weak Points Yeah oh and upper trap lol" tree, and the "everything else" tree right now. There should be a whole separate tree part that starts with "Tool Mastery" (which now enables the use of all traps as well as increasing their power with extra levels).

Get three levels in Tool Mastery to gain access to Upper Trap Custom, Poison Trap Custom, and Stun Grenade Custom. Upper Trap custom increases damage, Poison Trap Custom increases damage per tick and also gives some of the damage dealt per tick to the Ranger as HP (caps at like 10% HP per tick, maybe), and Stun Grenade Custom increases blast radius (it would now have a 100% stun chance by default). Maxed Tactics Trap should be just how the PP restoration of traps work to begin with.


And they'd still suck but at least it'd be more viable to maybe dick around with them.


EDIT: This would have the side effect of the previously "everything else" tree being reorganized, hopefully, so that the various specialty bullets wouldn't be buried under six feet of bullshit.

EDIT2: It also doesn't help that thanks to all the nonsensical prerequisites you can't even get all of the tools maxed until you have 67 skill points.

[Rakurai]

I'm curious as to how good the new assault rifle PA is going to be, since while the damage didn't seem terribly impressive, it's hard to judge, knowing how badly geared the characters in the trailers tend to be, coupled with the fact that the PA is chargeable.

I'd use the class more if I could actually get the level 16 discs for the skills that need them.

[2128drain]

I'd use the class more if I could actually get the level 16 discs for the skills that need them.

That's a beef that I have. L16 discs do fix a bunch of stuff, but it's such a chore and dumb luck to get them.

[Macman]

Ranger IS underpowered. Launchers are absolutely terrible now and desperately need reworking (though I'm sure we'll just be seeing +80% modifiers on level 17 PAs IF YOU CAN FIND THEM). Rifles are still functional if you can get the level 16 PAs, but pale in comparison to zero-effort (in more than one sense) mechgun spam.

Weak bullet doesn't make you strong, it makes you a slave.

[Aine]

Launchers are godly and necessary to do a perfect 2-point burst with chain killing in SHAQs.

[WildarmsRE5]

Launchers are godly and necessary to do a perfect 2-point burst with chain killing in SHAQs.by doing YOLO bullet (aka Cluster Bullet)

[Zorafim]

Ranger always felt like the weakest class to me (next to gunner before they got ranged PAs). Against enemies with weak spots, they do alright damage. But without that, they lag behind greatly. Launchers do alright damage, if you can manage to hit anything with them. And rifles are weak for the amount of skill required to use them correctly.

[schnee4]

it probly fells weak since you are suck? Ranger is hardest class to play. I would not recommend for noobs

[Zorafim]

Nice job calling someone who played ranger since the beta a noob.

[Maninbluejumpsuit]

Nice job calling someone who played ranger since the beta a noob.

Did you notice that guy... posts like... chocoborrr...

Oh god, I think he's multiplying.

[Zorafim]

Chocowho? I normally don't venture out of the fanworks forums or the picture threads, so I don't know all the trolls by name.

[Triple_S]

it probly fells weak since you are suck? Ranger is hardest class to play. I would not recommend for noobs

Ranger is easy as shit to play even without using Weak Bullet to destroy bosses before they know what hit them. But compared to the other classes, it's not a great main. It can be a very powerful sub for bow Braver and probably still Gunner, but that's pretty much it.

[Maninbluejumpsuit]

Chocowho? I normally don't venture out of the fanworks forums or the picture threads, so I don't know all the trolls by name.

Smart man.

[Z-0]

Ranger is a great class. It is not UP.

My 2¢.

[2128drain]

Ranger is a great class. It is not UP.

My 2¢.

Thank you for your deep insight and arguments to support this stance.

[MetalDude]

RA is great at killing 90% of the bosses in the game and provides the absolute strongest AB. I tend to ignore comments about RA not being as good as BR or GU because those classes over the top as it is (and boring as hell). RA is where every class should be balanced if they had the same level of versatility as well as weaknesses. All I could ask is for some easier solutions to dealing with machine enemies.

[Edson Drake]

Pretty much. They're weak, limited, and slow. If they were cooldown-based skills with really short cooldowns, that alone would make them far more appealing. Increasing set-up speed and the grenade speed would also do wonders. Finally, make all tools their own tree. We have the "Weak Points Yeah oh and upper trap lol" tree, and the "everything else" tree right now. There should be a whole separate tree part that starts with "Tool Mastery" (which now enables the use of all traps as well as increasing their power with extra levels).

Get three levels in Tool Mastery to gain access to Upper Trap Custom, Poison Trap Custom, and Stun Grenade Custom. Upper Trap custom increases damage, Poison Trap Custom increases damage per tick and also gives some of the damage dealt per tick to the Ranger as HP (caps at like 10% HP per tick, maybe), and Stun Grenade Custom increases blast radius (it would now have a 100% stun chance by default). Maxed Tactics Trap should be just how the PP restoration of traps work to begin with.


And they'd still suck but at least it'd be more viable to maybe dick around with them.


EDIT: This would have the side effect of the previously "everything else" tree being reorganized, hopefully, so that the various specialty bullets wouldn't be buried under six feet of bullshit.

EDIT2: It also doesn't help that thanks to all the nonsensical prerequisites you can't even get all of the tools maxed until you have 67 skill points.

You know, I would absolutely love if we could get usable grenades. An active skill that's powerful enough to deal about 80k(without WB) in single AOE hit.
Shave off a few points required to master them, or even make them into a single skill.


Ranger IS underpowered. Launchers are absolutely terrible now and desperately need reworking (though I'm sure we'll just be seeing +80% modifiers on level 17 PAs IF YOU CAN FIND THEM). Rifles are still functional if you can get the level 16 PAs, but pale in comparison to zero-effort (in more than one sense) mechgun spam.

Weak bullet doesn't make you strong, it makes you a slave.

Launchers are TOO slow, they need better recover frames, and cancel-able frames. The speed of the projectile also needs an speed increase. Damage could use a little increase as well, but not entirely necessary. But yeah, it pales in comparison to Gunners/Bravers.

[Mattykins]

Ranger is a really good class. Problem is that BR and GU are so retarded that it and everything else seem terrible in comparison. :V

[Radical Dreamer]

It'd help if Ranger had gears for its weapons like some of the other classes (Hunter, Fighter, Gunner, etc). I mean, besides the TSMG, absolutely none of the ranged weapons have gears at all. That's a lot of missed potential right there.

[Great Pan]

RA is just nothing more than a WB slave, period.

[Macman]

And HU is nothing more than a Fury Stance slave.

[yoshiblue]

Would be cool if ranger had finesse related gears. More damage for every successful chain of shots.

[GALEFORCE]

RA is great at killing 90% of the bosses in the game and provides the absolute strongest AB. I tend to ignore comments about RA not being as good as BR or GU because those classes over the top as it is (and boring as hell). RA is where every class should be balanced if they had the same level of versatility as well as weaknesses. All I could ask is for some easier solutions to dealing with machine enemies.

Say what you will about gu being overpowered (largely due to sroll ja), but at least all TMG PAs are functional and have no luck barriers keeping you from using the class's toolkit. Gunner is infinitely more fun than anything ranger has to offer, at least until they fix a good 90% of ranger's PAs to keep up with the current meta.

And oh my god, I want homing emission to die. It's the worst thing. The fact that HE still has the monopoly on high damage output for rangers is very telling about the design flaws of the class. It's just a total nonsensical PA.

[Xaelouse]

Ranger's only saving grace is WB right now. This is fact.

[MetalDude]

I would say GU does at least have a lot of variety in that sense, but SRoll JA is just so lame. They were on to something when they tried to put this greater focus on actually making ZRA playstyles based around RT and SA work. It just needed a bit more of a push and it would have been perfect, honestly.

HE is pretty ridiculous considering its intended purpose. I find that it's not amazing for every boss ever so I find a number of choices otherwise.

I would say RA's only major problem is that Launchers have awesome output (they really don't need to hit too much harder besides not dealing shit damage to non-weakpoints), but they're just too damn slow to keep up. Rifles have a lot of variety now, but they are seriously overdependent on Lv.16's to work.

[Maninbluejumpsuit]

Ranger's only saving grace is WB right now. This is fact.

lvl16 diffuse shell
lvl16 impact slider
I'd hate to mention HE, but it is damage. I do hate how absurd it is to have to line up so many game mechanics to make the attack worth a damn (lock on multiple hitboxes, shove gun barrel into target's weak point). Its tracking/missile speed is inherently bad too.

In terms of stupidly OP skills, you could put WB up there with KC+combat escape.

[Z-0]

Rodeo also pretty good, Cluster at exit Burst, Divine Launcher at your feet (cuz things run to you). Additional Bullet I'm not a fan of in SH, but Thrillsplosion works extremely well against some things.

These all kills things incredibly easy, it's not like it's hard to kill things as Ranger.

[2128drain]

I would say GU does at least have a lot of variety in that sense, but SRoll JA is just so lame. They were on to something when they tried to put this greater focus on actually making ZRA playstyles based around RT and SA work. It just needed a bit more of a push and it would have been perfect, honestly.

Gunner is really cool, in that rolling and doing aerial moves is really cool looking and fun, but because of S.Roll JA Bonus nobody does anything but S.Roll into IF or ER and PA combos are a thing of the past.

[Chdata]

I remember when I started playing Gu

and had the same exact issues as the OP

back when I was a noob, lol



i'm still a noob

[WildarmsRE5]

RA is just nothing more than a WB slave, period.


And HU is nothing more than a Fury Stance slave.this Burn made me laugh, I guess Br is nothing more than a Katana Slave then ^^;

ooooooh, where has variety gotten to?

wait-- oh nvm.

[UnLucky]

Gunner is really cool, in that rolling and doing aerial moves is really cool looking and fun, but because of S.Roll JA Bonus nobody does anything but S.Roll into IF or ER and PA combos are a thing of the past.

Hate to break it to you, but no class in this game actually combos different PAs together.

[Macman]

this Burn made me laugh, I guess Br is nothing more than a Katana Slave then ^^;
BR is a Shunka automaton.

GUs run on a very strict flowchart algorithm:

10 "Enemy Arrangement" = "clusterfuck" GOTO 20 ELSE GOTO 60
20 Turn 180°
30 Flip backwards
40 Shift Period
50
60 Flip sideways
70 Infinite Fire

[WildarmsRE5]

BR is a Shunka automaton.

GUs run on a very strict flowchart algorithm:

10 "Enemy Arrangement" = "clusterfuck" GOTO 20 ELSE GOTO 60
20 Turn 180°
30 Flip backwards
40 Shift Period
50
60 Flip sideways
70 Infinite Firehttp://fc00.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2012/331/5/6/lelouch_laugh__gif_by_bluefeatherraven-d5mbf8a.gif

[Rakurai]

At least Gunners still have reasons to use Aerial Shooting (Makes it so almost nothing is able to hit you if performed at the top of a jump), Heel Stab (Best Chain Trigger activator and good against clumped enemies that are outside of Shift Period's radius), and Messiah Time (Highest DPS against an immobile target) occasionally.

There's virtually no situation where Bravers need something other then Shunka Shunran or Kanran Kikyou.

[Bloothehegdehog]

I guess ranger isn't so weak after all...I am a hunter, but it seems I can never find a strong ranger so I was curious if the ranger was just a naturally weak class. ^^;

[UnLucky]

There's virtually no situation where Bravers need something other then Shunka Shunran or Kanran Kikyou.

B-but... Hatou Rindou!

[Valimer]

RA requires *HUNTER SUBCLASS* to really bring out the power in them. They're more than capable of one-shotting a huge number of SH mobs, albeit they are a little slow to the punch compared to other classes. They have very high versatility which also means knowing when to use the right PA at the right time.


fixed that for ya

[Daiyousei]

please, we all know this is how Gus work

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O4mS_3hWwtk

[Valimer]

Let me simplify the 6 pages of this thread.

Ranger is the Weak Bullet slave. It's not a DPS class on it's own. People use it as a sub for Weak Bullet, but that's the only reason to use ranger sub over hunter sub. Launcher is trash. Only lv16 ranger PAs are "good." That being said, Ranger/Hunter has the best boss solo potential because of WB.

[WildarmsRE5]

That being said, Gunner/Ranger has the best boss solo potential because of WB.
fixed that for ya^what you just said.

[Valimer]

^what you just said.

well yeah, but still


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iQ3aHvpqfoA


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i1Mrt_3gdgc


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zZnPQ8nMX18

ranger/hunter can put down some numbers

[Aine]

Anyone who says Ranger only exists for WB doesn't know how to burst properly.

The old exit bursts before the nerf were hyper-efficient due to chain-killing, where an AOE attack like Cluster Bullet kills both the enemy and the respawns that replace it due to the lingering hit detection.

When they nerfed exit bursts, as a countermeasure to chain-killing they changed it so that when you kill a burst enemy it doesn't respawn in the same place. An upshot of this is that most exits have a sweet spot where standing there causes the enemies to spawn in two spots only, alternating between them.

Turns out that in a map like Desert where the enemies have low HP, you can completely seal a spawn point by assigning two people to fire at each point and continue firing even if no enemies are there (this is to catch them instantly the moment they spawn).

Guess what happens when you seal both points at the same time? That's right, you can chain-kill. This gives you a burst that is literally as efficient as exit bursts before the nerf.

Cluster is the standard PA for sealing spawn points - good PP efficiency, easy PP recovery with launcher normals, large AOE, high single-hit damage, lasting hit detection. Il Foie is another PA that can do it, and if you want to cover all possible exits a Force is necessary as well because sometimes one spawn is too far away from the sweet spot to hit with Cluster. But even then you still need a Ranger with WHBB and Ketos Proi since Il Foie PP usage is heavy.

[Valimer]

Anyone who says Ranger only exists for WB doesn't know how to burst properly.

The old exit bursts before the nerf were hyper-efficient due to chain-killing, where an AOE attack like Cluster Bullet kills both the enemy and the respawns that replace it due to the lingering hit detection.

When they nerfed exit bursts, as a countermeasure to chain-killing they changed it so that when you kill a burst enemy it doesn't respawn in the same place. An upshot of this is that most exits have a sweet spot where standing there causes the enemies to spawn in two spots only, alternating between them.

Turns out that in a map like Desert where the enemies have low HP, you can completely seal a spawn point by assigning two people to fire at each point and continue firing even if no enemies are there (this is to catch them instantly the moment they spawn).

Guess what happens when you seal both points at the same time? That's right, you can chain-kill. This gives you a burst that is literally as efficient as exit bursts before the nerf.

Cluster is the standard PA for sealing spawn points - good PP efficiency, easy PP recovery with launcher normals, large AOE, high single-hit damage, lasting hit detection. Il Foie is another PA that can do it, and if you want to cover all possible exits a Force is necessary as well because sometimes one spawn is too far away from the sweet spot to hit with Cluster. But even then you still need a Ranger with WHBB and Ketos Proi since Il Foie PP usage is heavy.


That's a good strategy but you don't need a ranger to do that. After 1200 hours of playing PSO2 I've never been in an AQ where any one has said "we need a ranger" for anything. Forces, Bravers, and now even Gunners can do that job just fine.

[Kayarine]

How to find out the sweet spots? I heard there was a specific formation that was needed for keeping limited spawn points as well (something like two people standing in front and the other two in the back,) is that true for all exits?

I can't seem to figure out how to not have everything spawning all over the place. My party usually is all over the place as well because of that, so it's hard to find the right spot.

[Rehal]

Anyone who says Ranger only exists for WB doesn't know how to burst properly.

The old exit bursts before the nerf were hyper-efficient due to chain-killing, where an AOE attack like Cluster Bullet kills both the enemy and the respawns that replace it due to the lingering hit detection.

When they nerfed exit bursts, as a countermeasure to chain-killing they changed it so that when you kill a burst enemy it doesn't respawn in the same place. An upshot of this is that most exits have a sweet spot where standing there causes the enemies to spawn in two spots only, alternating between them.

Turns out that in a map like Desert where the enemies have low HP, you can completely seal a spawn point by assigning two people to fire at each point and continue firing even if no enemies are there (this is to catch them instantly the moment they spawn).

Guess what happens when you seal both points at the same time? That's right, you can chain-kill. This gives you a burst that is literally as efficient as exit bursts before the nerf.

Cluster is the standard PA for sealing spawn points - good PP efficiency, easy PP recovery with launcher normals, large AOE, high single-hit damage, lasting hit detection. Il Foie is another PA that can do it, and if you want to cover all possible exits a Force is necessary as well because sometimes one spawn is too far away from the sweet spot to hit with Cluster. But even then you still need a Ranger with WHBB and Ketos Proi since Il Foie PP usage is heavy.

Sega reduced respawn time of pse mobs again?

[WildarmsRE5]

well yeah, but still

PSO2 Good Ol' Rodeo Drive - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iQ3aHvpqfoA)

PSO2 SH Dark Ragne infected Ra/Hu - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i1Mrt_3gdgc)

PSO2 SH Vol Dragon Ra/Hu - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zZnPQ8nMX18)

ranger/hunter can put down some numbersyeah, I did Rodeo Drive Ra/Hu on mine on Bal Rodos, it works. but so does Messiah Time.

really, Gu/Ra can put down any numbers, not just "Some".

[Aine]

How to find out the sweet spots? I heard there was a specific formation that was needed for keeping limited spawn points as well (something like two people standing in front and the other two in the back,) is that true for all exits?

I can't seem to figure out how to not have everything spawning all over the place. My party usually is all over the place as well because of that, so it's hard to find the right spot.

Trial and error since it's different for every exit, but generally if you stand on or just before the grid line and near the center, most exits will form into two point spawns. Desert usually looks something like this:

http://i.imgur.com/jMQxkqa.png

Forest has some trickier exits, and you probably won't be able to seal the spawn points since the enemies are tough. But even just getting them to spawn messily in two points improves the efficiency greatly, since you can concentrate fire. I remember one Forest exit looked like this:

http://i.imgur.com/4GtTIHP.png


Sega reduced respawn time of pse mobs again?

The respawn time is pretty much the same as before the nerf, only they spawn in different places and further away. Sometimes in an exit burst the respawns will become very slow, not sure exactly why but it happens when you go too far back or too close to one side.

[Kayarine]

Thanks, that's very helpful! I'll try that next time I AQ.

[GALEFORCE]

Gunner is really cool, in that rolling and doing aerial moves is really cool looking and fun, but because of S.Roll JA Bonus nobody does anything but S.Roll into IF or ER and PA combos are a thing of the past.

You can still play around a lot with gunner PAs even with sroll. Messiah Time, Shift Period, and Elder Rebellion all work well in the air. All three have some application after launching with aerial shooting. Heel Stab is still really good for certain things, though I'm not a fan of it for mobbing. I honestly rarely ever use IF as a gunner. I feel sorry for gunners that only IF.

[GALEFORCE]

I would say GU does at least have a lot of variety in that sense, but SRoll JA is just so lame. They were on to something when they tried to put this greater focus on actually making ZRA playstyles based around RT and SA work. It just needed a bit more of a push and it would have been perfect, honestly.

HE is pretty ridiculous considering its intended purpose. I find that it's not amazing for every boss ever so I find a number of choices otherwise.

I would say RA's only major problem is that Launchers have awesome output (they really don't need to hit too much harder besides not dealing shit damage to non-weakpoints), but they're just too damn slow to keep up. Rifles have a lot of variety now, but they are seriously overdependent on Lv.16's to work.

While RT-SA would have had potential with a little more power, I like the versatility sroll JA gives gunner currently. Besides, RT still needed some bugs worked out. Its horizontal range is very short, it doesn't actually group things together too well, and its vertical range is as bad as zondeel's. It feels like it would have changed gu from a one-trick pony into a two-trick pony at best. Right now I'm pretty happy with five-trick pony.

There's so much I'd want to fix with ranger. Make One Point work like Nabarta and give it respectable damage per PP. Sneak Shooter and Piercing Shell should both be competing for a high DPS option, with piercing obviously better against big enemies. Launchers should do x1.01 damage to body shots, and grenade shell should borrow those mechanics (along with a dmg or radius buff). HE should cease to exist forever. IS and PS are both dumb, so idc what happens to them.

Aiming Shot should stop disappearing past a certain range, and it should have a level 2 charge. Thriller could use more range on the explosion, but it's okay as is. Kreisenslach is actually pretty awesome, since it gets SS on consecutive uses in the air. I'd lower the PP cost a tad though. Addbullet needs a buff, gasp.

Oh, and of course, make standing snipes work with techs. That's another discussion though.

[WildarmsRE5]

There's so much I'd want to fix with ranger. Make One Point work like Nabarta and give it respectable damage per PP. Sneak Shooter and Piercing Shell should both be competing for a high DPS option, with piercing obviously better against big enemies. Launchers should do x1.01 damage to body shots, and grenade shell should borrow those mechanics (along with a dmg or radius buff). HE should cease to exist forever. IS and PS are both dumb, so idc what happens to them.

https://0-media-cdn.foolz.us/ffuuka/board/vg/image/1338/93/1338934748197.gif

[GALEFORCE]

HE, IS, and PS all suffer from the same thing: they're all totally impractical. With HE and IS, SEGA just dialed up the multipliers to 11 and patted themselves on the back. HE happened to have an exploit that made it (unintentionally) good at killing bosses, but ranger shouldn't have to rely on that. IS is a bit more practical, but they clearly only doubled its damage because no one was using it ever. The gap closing it provides is more of an inconvenience than a help when you're using it solely for its damage (this is theoretical admittedly, since I don't have IS16).

[UnLucky]

Due to Standing Snipe, it feels like a waste any time you're on the move. One Point, Impact Slider, and Homing Emission let you move without breaking SS (at least till the PA is over).

As for Reverse Tap, man I would hate to have to start every encounter with that PA. It sucked so much for what it was supposed to do, but even if it were amazing, it still means you have to walk up to enemies to have any form of mobbing potential. Braver would be the only class in the game.

[WildarmsRE5]

IS is a bit more practical, but they clearly only doubled its damage because no one was using it ever. The gap closing it provides is more of an inconvenience than a help when you're using it solely for its damage (this is theoretical admittedly, since I don't have IS16).yeah the gap closer is inconvenient, which is why you Parallel Slider to deal damage while moving back.

and I don't get it, Gu relies on S-roll to deal damage, Br needs Hu/Shunka sub to deal damage. so why couldn't Ra rely on these?
http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view3/3504404/dancing-dante-o.gif

[UnLucky]

People use Parallel Slider?

News to me.

[GALEFORCE]

Parallel slider should at least do as much damage as impact slider if they're going to be a thing. Otherwise you'd arguably be better served just using Diffuse Shell (or better yet, a buffed sneak shooter) to take advantage of SS.

Let's not kid ourselves, ra, gu, and br all rely on hu for their damage. Sroll may be a little silly, but at least it's an intended game mechanic that's not inconvenient to use. Shunka practically defines ease of use, and, I dare say, it's actually pretty fun trying to tame it to do your bidding. Both of these are a bit too powerful, but there's nothing wrong with them fundamentally.

HE is a buggy mess that should never have been made. HE was originally meant to be used against multiple enemies as a crowd control PA. Turns out, the shots travel really slowly, and have erratic patterns that make it useless for that purpose. Oh, but you can target multiple parts on a single enemy. Wait, you can fire all those shots at point blank to hit a weak point with them? Why do you need to pick up 6 different targets then? Why do you need to fire them at point blank? Why not just fire 6 shots at once from a range to that one point? Because it's a buggy mess. In the first place, rifles were meant to be mid-long range weapons. Diffuse Shell already covers close range. Why should HE do the same thing, but be more annoying to use? That's not fun.

[WildarmsRE5]

That's not fun.Your Opinion.
http://media.tumblr.com/eb47b95dece496b2305fe86a3f7d63ff/tumblr_inline_mqgs8qihxe1rigste.gif

I agree that it's stupid though. but I'm not complaining. might as well abuse it too.

[GALEFORCE]

Lol @ anyone finding HE fun. Regardless of my opinion, the fact is it doesn't work like it was intended to. HE, and to a lesser extent IS and PS all have serious design flaws that were compensated for with bigger numbers (not PS, yet) rather than being fixed in any meaningful way.

Neither shunka nor sroll have design flaws other than being too strong. You could nerf them both by 50% tomorrow and they'll still be good additions to both classes. Nerf HE by 50% and no one would use it.

[UnLucky]

Your Opinion.
http://gay.gif

I agree that it's stupid though. but I'm not complaining. might as well abuse it too.

could you not punctuate each post with a 2-frame .gif?

[WildarmsRE5]

could you not punctuate each post with a 2-frame .gif?._. / sorry

[jcart953]

I don't think Ra is weak, it's just not super easy cheesy mode, which I guess some people seem to want.

[Ordy]

So much shit in this thread that my eyes are bleeding. I feel bad for the people looking for advice about RA and would end up here. It was like reading a Microsoft forum with people saying Linux is bad because they can't use it.

If anybody thinks that a Ranger is underpowered, that person must:

1. Do something wrong
2. Not have a fury Hunter sub
3. Have shitty gear
4. Not have the important PA at Lv.16 (if it's the case, you have no right to talk here, like seriously)

1: You can't expect to be taken seriously when you say things like "Sneak Shooter is ok, Homing Emission is not". Homing Emission is a boss killing PA (Ragne, Bal Rodos, QD, Vol, Snow/Fang Bans, ...). "But ordy-chan ... it's so hard to use it *q_q*" ... HAHA, no shit, I guess everything seems hard coming from Bravers and Gunners PoV. Honestly, it is hard to master, but it doesn't take that long, and it's so gratifying when you manage to JA all your HE and solo kill a SH boss (more gratifying than Srolling or "touch me if you can" Katana Combat). Also, HE kills mobs like (Sol)Dirandals in no time: JA HE, 360° swing, jump and BOOM HEADSHOT

And don't even start the "not intended to be used that way", because you could say that about dagger dashing, Banishing Arrow-Final combo, na foie in the face ... Sega gives us tools and we try to make the best use of them. You know what? Viagra was originally used as a treatment for hypertension, but men use it to have a massive boner, are you going to blame them for that too?

2: If you want high numbers, you need a Hunter tree with maxed JA and fury stance multipliers. Otherwise play whatever the fuck you want but don't come and say RA is underpowered.

3: 150PP, at least Soul/S3 weapons and units, Latent3 Arao Cylinder or Koureki/Bio Rifle with 50 elem (yas7k is good too) are all good rifles and since SHAQ, the Arao isn't worth 30m anymore, so no excuses. Oh and a decent R-ATK mag (but I shouldn't even mention that, it's common sense).

4: You are not a #2014 Ranger if you don't have at least IS16 or Diffuse Shell 16. Parallel Slider is good too but really situational (eg. sand swimming gwan, and some IS positioning) then Grenade Shell just because it's fun to use in ruins. Divine Launcher 16, please learn when to switch between the view modes and when and where to lock target. Yes, most of the time Launchers PA's require something called "aiming". Hey Gunners, have you ever heard that word? no? (that was a sarcasm, I don't need your science, I know GU have to aim too >_>)

--------------

Note: after reading this, if you feel like I have a grudge against you ... time to calm your tits, it was a general answer to the whole thread.

Finally, I'll just quote this


Ranger is a great class. It is not UP.

My 2¢.

[gigawuts]

What are your thoughts on Concentrate One? I love the oomph it packs now, and costing such little PP makes it viable in a lot of situations that Divine Launcher spam won't work for more than just its burst DPS.

[Ordy]

What are your thoughts on Concentrate One? I love the oomph it packs now, and costing such little PP makes it viable in a lot of situations that Divine Launcher spam won't work for more than just its burst DPS.

I Concentrate One the wave 4 in TD and end up 4th or 5th is a MPA full or BR-GU, works fine for 12/12 EQ MPA too, mobs die too fast so it's not PP efficient to use Divine. However, when I solo farm, I'd rather diffuse shell because I know all the mobs will be facing me and not going after someone else.

[UnLucky]

Ok, so get every PA to lv16 through RNG, have premium and buy 10*s or suffer RNG, and still do less damage for more work than other classes with lv1 PAs and 6* gear.

And you're telling me the class isn't underpowered?

[WildarmsRE5]

more like Ranger = Hard Mode, Braver = Easy Mode.

wait. . . have I've been playing in hard mode all the time then? oh wait, braver didn't exist then.

[2128drain]

Ok, so get every PA to lv16 through RNG, have premium and buy 10*s or suffer RNG, and still do less damage for more work than other classes with lv1 PAs and 6* gear.

And you're telling me the class isn't underpowered?

No way man it's a fantastically balanced class if you have this ridiculously rigid setup that requires funbux and also luck. You're clearly a scrub!

:roll:

[Remz69]

Ok, so get every PA to lv16 through RNG, have premium and buy 10*s or suffer RNG, and still do less damage for more work than other classes with lv1 PAs and 6* gear.

And you're telling me the class isn't underpowered?

depends on how you define OP and UP (i dunno, i've never looked up any definition): compared to other classes, or compared to the content the game has to offer ?

cause pretty much any class got a lot more power than it needed for what enemies can do so

[gigawuts]

depends on how you define OP and UP (i dunno, i've never looked up any definition): compared to other classes, or compared to the content the game has to offer ?

cause pretty much any class got a lot more power than it needed for what enemies can do so

There's three main scales to rank OP/UPness on:

1. Against enemies. We're very much OP here pretty much across the board.
2. Versus other classes. Does this class do more, better, and/or easier than other classes? Braver is an example of doing more than many classes, and doing it much more easily.
3. Within its own role. Does this class achieve its role, and then does it surpass it to ridiculous levels? Ranger's tree indicates it's meant to be several things, including the precision damage class, trap class, and debuff class - but is that what it really excels at? All it really does well is weak point damage, while traps and most loadable bullets are utter garbage. Meanwhile Weak Bullet triples your damage, which is completely ridiculous.

[Ordy]

Ok, so get every PA to lv16 through RNG

Because Boss rush farming or EQ boss farming is too hard? Every class has to hunt PA, makes no difference when it comes to Ranger


have premium and buy 10*s

If buying 10* really is a problem, you don't need premium for a Bio Rifle. Then Bio = XQ = effort *sigh*


and still do less damage for more work than other classes with lv1 PAs and 6* gear

More work? maybe, less damage ... ooohh I don't think so

[Remz69]

There's three main scales to rank OP/UPness on:

1. Against enemies. We're very much OP here pretty much across the board.
2. Versus other classes. Does this class do more, better, and/or easier than other classes? Braver is an example of doing more than many classes, and doing it much more easily.
3. Within its own role. Does this class achieve its role, and then does it surpass it to ridiculous levels? Ranger's tree indicates it's meant to be several things, including the precision damage class, trap class, and debuff class - but is that what it really excels at? All it really does well is weak point damage, while traps and most loadable bullets are utter garbage. Meanwhile Weak Bullet triples your damage, which is completely ridiculous.

i'd usually leave a like when i have nothing more to add to indicate to the poster that i've read and appreciated his insight without posting just to say 'thanks man'

but i can't find any like button here sooo thanks man, much appreciated :-P

[Maninbluejumpsuit]

HE is a buggy mess that should never have been made. HE was originally meant to be used against multiple enemies as a crowd control PA. Turns out, the shots travel really slowly, and have erratic patterns that make it useless for that purpose. Oh, but you can target multiple parts on a single enemy. Wait, you can fire all those shots at point blank to hit a weak point with them? Why do you need to pick up 6 different targets then? Why do you need to fire them at point blank? Why not just fire 6 shots at once from a range to that one point? Because it's a buggy mess. In the first place, rifles were meant to be mid-long range weapons. Diffuse Shell already covers close range. Why should HE do the same thing, but be more annoying to use? That's not fun.

I do agree on this.

HE is still a stupid pa when it comes to function.

I do remember telling other people when braver came out, and before lvl16 PAs that bow PAs were everything rifles wish they were; practical and effective.

Glory rain? Bitch please. Torrential arrow.
Sneak shooter/homing emission? Bitch please. Master shot/Penetrating arrow.

Back then, I'd be the first to tell you rifles are one big gimmick. Now? Sega might have padded the numbers enough to make most people not complain as much about it.

[UnLucky]

Because Boss rush farming or EQ boss farming is too hard? Every class has to hunt PA, makes no difference when it comes to Ranger



If buying 10* really is a problem, you don't need premium for a Bio Rifle. Then Bio = XQ = effort *sigh*



More work? maybe, less damage ... ooohh I don't think so


Sorry, but the following PAs have no large jump at lv11 nor 16:

[SPOILER-BOX]Sonic Arrow
Guilty Break
Sacred Skewer
Bloody Sarabande
Deadly Archer
Backhand Smash
Kanran Kikyou
Hatou Rindou
Shunka Shunran
Master Shoot
Kamikaze Arrow
Banish Arrow
Last Nemesis
Messiah Time
Infinite Fire
Elder Rebellion
Heel Stab
Shift Period[/SPOILER-BOX]

These do:

[SPOILER-BOX]Piercing Shell
Grenade Shell
One Point
Diffuse Shell
Homing Emission
Impact Slider
Sneak Shooter
Glory Rain
Parallel Slider
Divine Launcher
Concentrate One
Cluster Bullet
Cracker Bullet
Zero Distance
Rodeo Drive
Crazy Smash
Flame Bullet
Aiming Shot
Thrillerplode
Additional Bullet[/SPOILER-BOX]

[MetalDude]

Yeah Ordy, I can't even agree with you on that. Flame Bullet is one of the more infuriating hunts (more so than Sazan because you can at least find that anywhere if you're lucky) and no one likes hunting Burn Draal either because caves is obnoxious so good luck on IS. I've found most of all the other normal PAs at lv 16 save for Concentrate One but that's only because I've been playing RA for the past 2 months consecutively.

[GALEFORCE]

Well, I feel like bow PAs are pretty gimmicky too. That's one reason we don't have many bow users. Maybe if torrential arrow had a larger radius it would be decent, but it's still terrible at headshots. That said, I'd still take it over glory rain. Master Shoot is interesting, but it's unfortunate how RNG and range dependent it is. At least it's unique, but it's underpowered for its drawbacks compared to KA. Then there's excessive delay gravity arrow and totally useless sharp bomber. Tritt shooter is the best crowd control PA bow has, LOL.

And yeah, my rant on HE was not saying it wasn't useful. It's pretty much a staple of current ranger play. Which is why no one plays it. Turns out, no one wants to play a class that isn't fun to play. The frosting on the cake is having the second strongest rifle PA only drop to one of the rarest enemies in the game, which only appears in the worst map in the game. On the plus side, I did find safoie 16 yesterday ^^

[UnLucky]

Yeah, the bow is in a bad place, and it's not the damage (it already has that).

And it's funny how Master Shoot does exactly what people use Homing Emission for, but works at long range.

[ShinMaruku]

I think part of the PA issue is when they add new ones and add to them they don't quite compare them to what was there before. If there was some of that then we'd see them attempt for more parity

[Maninbluejumpsuit]

Well, I feel like bow PAs are pretty gimmicky too. That's one reason we don't have many bow users. Maybe if torrential arrow had a larger radius it would be decent, but it's still terrible at headshots. That said, I'd still take it over glory rain. Master Shoot is interesting, but it's unfortunate how RNG and range dependent it is. At least it's unique, but it's underpowered for its drawbacks compared to KA. Then there's excessive delay gravity arrow and totally useless sharp bomber. Tritt shooter is the best crowd control PA bow has, LOL.

All of them are still more practical on paper, and in use than rifle PAs before the lvl16 buffs. TPS aim a volley of 5 homing arrows to de malmoth's hump, or quartz's nose from a literal city block away during the original border break with a 6* bow, and rip threat from every katana braver SE spamming? Yes please.

RAs don't even have something that can emulate gravity point, so if anything, that works against their favor.

Never said bows are perfect, but at least you don't need to jump through hoops to make an attack functional.

I'd love to see PP regen while charging bow PAs to offset the higher-than-average costs, faster arrow travel times (so you can actually hit a moving target at a range a little more reliably), the stupid ramp up on rapid shot go away, maybe make trit shooter not need to be charged for the full combo, increase PP gain on normal charged, and uncharged attacks.


Yeah, the bow is in a bad place, and it's not the damage (it already has that).

And it's funny how Master Shoot does exactly what people use Homing Emission for, but works at long range.

As I've said.

[UnLucky]

Hey, I don't remember you saying that before! Post #91 was blank when I got here, I swear!

[Ordy]

Sorry, but the following PAs have no large jump at lv11 nor 16:


I don't see your point, what are you trying to prove here?

First: Piercing Shell, Grenade Shell, One Point, Diffuse Shell, Homing Emission and Sneak Shooter are all common drops PA, you don't even NEED to get them, you just get them like any other PA disk. When they released Lv.16 disks, I had all my major PA on 16 after 3 days. Then went to hunt the others with my team.

Second: One Point gets no boost at all, and it's a piece of shit PA IMO and if it's not, I'd still need to find a use for it.

Third: Surprise Knuckle, Orchestra, Quick March, Assault Buster, Slide End, Cerberus Dance and lots of other PA all have a boost at 11 or 16 too, we could also add Tech disks SO not only RA need to hunt for PA disks (if that was your point).

And why would you list GU or BR PA, Sega boosted some PA as a fix, no need to fix something that isn't broken, right?


Turns out, no one wants to play a class that isn't fun to play.

RA isn't fun to play based on your personal experience. I think and lots of other people think that Rangers are fun to play, and more fun that any other class. You should stop making false assumptions.


no one likes hunting Burn Draal either because caves is obnoxious so good luck on IS

Like I said, you don't even need to hunt it if you were active the last few weeks, Burn draal spawned quite often in "Where's the Chocolate 2" EQ. And what's so hard about boss rushing, one guy stays at camp, the other dash to A3, if not Draal, you restart, if it's Draal, you kill ... don't even need to S-rank. Better than afk in lobby or in your room. Flame Bullet is a pain in the ass to farm tho but it's an optional Launcher PA anyway.


And it's funny how Master Shoot does exactly what people use Homing Emission for, but works at long range.

You don't need to charge HE like MS, you can knockdown a whole wave of El Adha and Breeahda in TD with HE, you can shoot HE to the sky and make the bullets fall from above, which you can't with MS ... honestly, I'd rather keep my HE. Master Shot is pretty cool tho, it was one of my favorite bow PA when I was leveling my BR

[Horo The Wise Wolf]

Ranger is a great class. It is not UP.

My 2¢.

/thread


Ranger is a great class. It is not UP.

My 2¢.

End Thread


Ranger is a great class. It is not UP.

My 2¢.

Thread Over


Ranger is a great class. It is not UP.

My 2¢.

Terminate thread

Are any of these silly commands working yet?

[UnLucky]

I don't see your point, what are you trying to prove here?
That the class's entire arsenal is governed by RNG that no other class has to deal with to nearly the same degree?

Oh no, you can't use Quick March, and your WL Gear builder doesn't do as much damage as the newer one that hits a lot faster anyway. Slide End+AssBuster get their bonus at 11, so it's not as bad, and it's only one weapon. You could argue it's all Hunter really has, but that's another story.

One Point totally gets a boost at 16. Almost as much as the entire gain from 1 through 15. The point isn't that it's a shitty PA anyway so it doesn't matter, actually, it only furthers my point: Ranger has shit PAs that aren't even good after a balance "fix"

Gunner and Braver can buy lv1 discs for all of their PAs and easily outperform a Ranger.

It's underpowered.

[Radical Dreamer]

/thread



End Thread



Thread Over



Terminate thread

Are any of these silly commands working yet?

Comments like this don't really help at all, you know. We're just trying to generate some discussion over the game's issues rather than put up with it like the majority of the players are.

... But what do I know? I just play this game for the dress-up.

[GALEFORCE]

Speaking of travel time, why does Sneak Shooter's projectile travel at like 3 feet/second? It's a high powered rifle that fires photons. It should hit instantly like most TMG PAs do.

:-?

Indeed, bows could use lower PP costs across the board, or at least PP charge revival. I will give it to bow on Penetrate Arrow. It's everything piercing shell wishes it was, even though it takes forever to charge and is the worst offender on bow's PP issues.


RA isn't fun to play based on your personal experience. I think and lots of other people think that Rangers are fun to play, and more fun that any other class. You should stop making false assumptions.

Then why is ranger underplayed? We all agree that ranger is not underpowered. It's because their PAs are all extremely archaic. When I'm playing ranger, it's basically using thrillersplode 90% of the time, then switching to rifle for bosses, where I'm stuck using HE, and you know how I feel about HE. As much as I like thrillersplode, it gets monotonous much quicker than all the options gu has in their toolbox, and shunka is a much more fun PA to be using 90% of the time, regardless of its overpoweredness.

[Horo The Wise Wolf]

Comments like this don't really help at all, you know. We're just trying to generate some discussion over the game's issues rather than put up with it like the majority of the players are.

... But what do I know? I just play this game for the dress-up.

There is really nothing to discuss about the original topic. Ranger is by far not UP.

[Tenlade]

All ranger has that gunner doesnt is weak bullet and launchers, and traps.

opinion wise, Traps aren't very functional, and launchers are far outclassed.

Factually, rangers need to stand still and aim at weakpoints for bonus damage. Gunners merely need full hp (with mechs that regen your hp) and a backflip, for a far greater amount of damage then rangers have.(there's zero range but why would you be point blank with guns?). More effort for less power makes them underpowered in comparison.

[milranduil]

All ranger has that gunner doesnt is weak bullet and launchers, and traps.

opinion wise, Traps aren't very functional, and launchers are far outclassed.

Factually, rangers need to stand still and aim at weakpoints for bonus damage. Gunners merely need full hp (with mechs that regen your hp) and a backflip, for a far greater amount of damage then rangers have.(there's zero range but why would you be point blank with guns?). More effort for less power makes them underpowered in comparison.

Launchers are not outclassed at all.

What is Messiah Time for 400?

[FacelessRed]

Yes they're underpowered.

They have next to no redeeming qualities besides weak bullet.

I sub it on my Gunner, but maining it wants to make me gouge out my eyes. Can it do well? Sure, but the level of effort needed to be put into it, for EVERY class to outdo it for minimal effort in every category is pretty harsh. Maybe the new Rifle and Launcher PA will help, but honestly the weapon class needs a full redesign with the Meta that is in current use. By the time you shoot one launcher bullet the mob you aimed at is dead. Fire off a fast PA from rifle and you barely leave a scratch. Bleh, it was a nightmare getting it to 65 and I'm not doing it again.


Launchers are not outclassed at all.

What is Messiah Time for 400?

Did you just say Launchers are not outclassed, then put a Gunner PA as an example?

[Radical Dreamer]

There is really nothing to discuss about the original topic. Ranger is by far not UP.

It's not about whether the OP is right or wrong. It's about the discussion. We really should be talking about topics like this, even encouraging it, otherwise PSO2's gameplay is going to get worse than it already is.

If you don't agree that RA is UP, that's fine, but let the players who think so voice their concerns instead of saying "lol no topic over." Games die because of attitudes like that.

[Kondibon]

(there's zero range but why would you be point blank with guns?). Messiah Time, Shift Period, Heel Stab, Getting the most out of Infinity Fire (it's innacurate as fuck at long range). I'd bring up Satelight aim, but hahahaha no...


Yes they're underpowered.

They have next to no redeeming qualities besides weak bullet.

I sub it on my Gunner, but maining it wants to make me gouge out my eyes. Can it do well? Sure, but the level of effort needed to be put into it, for EVERY class to outdo it for minimal effort in every category is pretty harsh. Maybe the new Rifle and Launcher PA will help, but honestly the weapon class needs a full redesign with the Meta that is in current use. By the time you shoot one launcher bullet the mob you aimed at is dead. Fire off a fast PA from rifle and you barely leave a scratch. Bleh, it was a nightmare getting it to 65 and I'm not doing it again.I blame hunter skills and flips. If you use mech gun PAs as a GU/RA without flipping I'd say they break even with launcher ones in terms of raw dps. +100% damage is way too much, especially when mech gun gear gives another 30% and subbing hunter just compounds that.

EDIT: Another way to put what I'm saying is that Ranger isn't strictly underpowered, BR, GU, and sub hunter are just overpowered.

[milranduil]

Did you just say Launchers are not outclassed, then put a Gunner PA as an example?
What is reading comprehension for 800?

launchers are far outclassed.
Launchers are not outclassed at all.

(there's zero range but why would you be point blank with guns?).
What is Messiah Time for 400?

[UnLucky]

Separating distinct thoughts with more than a line break makes it easier to follow.


Who knew?

[HIT0SHI]

All ranger has that gunner doesnt is weak bullet and launchers, and traps.

opinion wise, Traps aren't very functional, and launchers are far outclassed

I hate how traps are locked away on the skilltree, not to mention all the DPS you'll have to give up in order to get them... ; _;
Sure, there not great or anything but I can surely see some uses for them like upper trap for crowd control (combined with the Julius Nifta Photon Blast would be neat!) and the grenade when I ran out of PP when WB'ing.

If they weren't locked away in there, I would totally use them.

[GALEFORCE]

Again, hunter sub is not the problem here. It's a problem with the game in general, but ranger is also crap without hunter sub. I would be all in favor of nerfing hunter's trees and buffing everyone else's (except possibly gu), but that's another topic.

As for whether ranger is underpowered, I think it depends on your definition of underpowered. Thrillersplode does enough damage to one-shot most mobs in SH if aimed properly, but aiming properly is not always possible due to the nature of the PA. Still, it's capable of clearing mobs in one use, even though it does take more effort than sroll ER or SHUNKA. I think what ranger lacks most is variety due to their wholly lackluster PA toolbox. Launchers receiving WHA bonuses on body shots would also go a long way towards making them viable for clearing mobs. You could even extend the favor to IF/ER's shotgun bursts to help out Gu/Ra without affecting Gu/Hu much at all.

[isCasted]

I want to talk about what OP tried to say: you are supposed to use PAs as long as you have PP. I actually see a lot of new non-Force (for obvious reasons) players doing this mistake. Basic attacks are usually used for PP recovery and their damage is negligible for any class (melee Techer is an exception).

Now there's a moment I have some problem with - ranged weapons having really bad PP recovery. I know that active PP recovery was not a thing in previous PS games, more so - in PSU and Portable games they consumed PP, but they also were stronger and there were no skill PAs for ranged weapons. More so, in PSU and PSPo ranged weapons had very fast passive PP recovery and in PSPo2(i) consumption was nearly unnoticable.

In PSO2 basic attacks of ranged weapons are even weaker compared to PAs than those of melee and even tech weapons, and recover less PP too. Gunslash is the only weapon with ranged capability that has good PP recovery and that behavior is not even intended, I believe - devs just were lazy to program that better. I don't like that I have to switch Gunslash if I want to be able to use Launcher or Bow, it makes no sense and it breaks the flow.

Now, back to what others were discussing lately...
Yes, Ranger could use some more PA balancing. Launcher needs higher base power and no default heashot bonus (right now for all ranged weapons headshots without skill gives 2x damage and with maxed WHA it's 3x. For Launcher it should be 1x and 1.5x respectively).

But it's not UP. In fact, Ra/Hu is OP because it's seriously rivalling Fi/Hu, which is a "perfect melee", if not outdoing it. It's just not as OP as Gu/Hu and Br/Hu. It's perfectly playable, it offers a lot of variety and rewards for skill a lot.

[FacelessRed]

Messiah Time, Shift Period, Heel Stab, Getting the most out of Infinity Fire (it's innacurate as fuck at long range). I'd bring up Satelight aim, but hahahaha no...

I blame hunter skills and flips. If you use mech gun PAs as a GU/RA without flipping I'd say they break even with launcher ones in terms of raw dps. +100% damage is way too much, especially when mech gun gear gives another 30% and subbing hunter just compounds that.

EDIT: Another way to put what I'm saying is that Ranger isn't strictly underpowered, BR, GU, and sub hunter are just overpowered.

I've been leveling hunter to try it out as GU/HU, but honestly I'm not liking it. Hitting weak points isn't that hard, and the PA-set that Gunner has, even non-target able weak points are easy to spam down (Just Jump then flip and head weakspots are easy targets, heck you can also TPS em if you really want that Standing snipe damage, though it's usually overkill). So I'm seeing a bigger boost from subbing /ra (and PP recovery on ranger keeps the bullets flying non-stop)

Not to say that /hu is bad for gunner, obviously isn't. But its not helping my playstyle I've developed. the difference is almost negligible in most scenario's.

[milranduil]

Uh, Fury stance + up + combo boost + JA bonus does not rival /RA WHA bonuses.

[Kondibon]

I've been leveling hunter to try it out as GU/HU, but honestly I'm not liking it. Hitting weak points isn't that hard, and the PA-set that Gunner has, even non-target able weak points are easy to spam down (Just Jump then flip and head weakspots are easy targets, heck you can also TPS em if you really want that Standing snipe damage, though it's usually overkill). So I'm seeing a bigger boost from subbing /ra (and PP recovery on ranger keeps the bullets flying non-stop)I'm not saying GU/RA is bad in general (I do it all the time), just that the flip skills make gunner PAs twice as strong, thus easily outperforming launcher PAs by a larger margine. I brought up the hunter tree because that makes the difference even larger and if you're a GU/RA and happen to use a launcher for whatever reason and there's a GU/HU in your party or whatever, they're going to have so many multipliers that there'd be no point in using a launcher at all and you just become a slightly weaker Gunner with weakbullet (not that that's bad since weakbullet in and of it's self is ridiculous).

[GALEFORCE]

Gu/Ra vs Gu/Hu really comes down to how comfortable you are with TPS Infinity Fire. If you want to manual aim everything, Gu/Ra doesn't lose out on much, but everything other than TPS infinity fire is going to be significantly weaker. There's weak bullet too, of course. Also, gunner is incompatible with standing snipe.

[Kondibon]

Gu/Ra vs Gu/Hu really comes down to how comfortable you are with TPS Infinity Fire. If you want to manual aim everything, Gu/Ra doesn't lose out on much, but everything other than TPS infinity fire is going to be significantly weaker. There's weak bullet too, of course. Also, gunner is incompatible with standing snipe.I would think GU/RA is better for bursting down bosses with WB/CT or just plain having weakbullet, so I usually go with it in a party, and GU/HU while solo.

I think the TPS thing is really only an issue for bosses with nontargetable weakpoints though since normal enemies die fast anyway, and most bosses have targetable weakpoints.

[GALEFORCE]

If given the choice, I'd rather kill mobs twice as fast than bosses three times as fast. Let's be honest, bosses die pretty quick either way with a full party. It's not like Gu/Hu is lacking in boss-killing power.

[FacelessRed]

Uh, Fury stance + up + combo boost + JA bonus does not rival /RA WHA bonuses.

Sorry, but I stopped listening to your baseless arguments a while ago. You refuse to provide evidence to pretty much anything you say. What are you even trying to say here?


I would think GU/RA is better for bursting down bosses with WB/CT or just plain having weakbullet, so I usually go with it in a party, and GU/HU while solo.

I think the TPS thing is really only an issue for bosses with nontargetable weakpoints though since normal enemies die fast anyway, and most bosses have targetable weakpoints.

It is better for bursting bosses down. But you only need to hop and you will hit any enemy with a head weak spot in the head. Which basically makes the fury stance combo of /hu kinda pointless. you will Kill just as many enemies within the animation span of infinite fire as you would as /hu vs /ra. /Hu does have a good bit more consistent damage though, and standing snipe is almost completely left out of combat unless you really aim to use it. *been trying to test how long you gotta stand still, doesn't seem like you have to stand still for a set period of time, as long as you are motionless when you do use a PA, but would like some clarification there.*

[Kondibon]

If given the choice, I'd rather kill mobs twice as fast than bosses three times as fast. Let's be honest, bosses die pretty quick either way with a full party. It's not like Gu/Hu is lacking in boss-killing power.Well, everything dies pretty quickly, I don't see why anyone cares. :wacko:

I should have clarified that I meant in PUGs or whatever, where I can't be sure anyone else is gonna have weakbullet.

[FacelessRed]

Well, everything dies pretty quickly, I don't see why anyone cares. :wacko:

I should have clarified that I meant in PUGs or whatever, where I can't be sure anyone else is gonna have weakbullet.

On ship 01 it seems weakbullet is a dying breed. I often find myself being the Only one with weak bullet. Falz... no weak bullet... fml.

[Kondibon]

On ship 01 it seems weakbullet is a dying breed. I often find myself being the Only one with weak bullet. Falz... no weak bullet... fml.It might be because hunter is such a good sub and ranger is so comparably under powered that everyone stopped going GU/RA or RA/HU as much.

[GALEFORCE]

It is better for bursting bosses down. But you only need to hop and you will hit any enemy with a head weak spot in the head. Which basically makes the fury stance combo of /hu kinda pointless. you will Kill just as many enemies within the animation span of infinite fire as you would as /hu vs /ra. /Hu does have a good bit more consistent damage though, and standing snipe is almost completely left out of combat unless you really aim to use it. *been trying to test how long you gotta stand still, doesn't seem like you have to stand still for a set period of time, as long as you are motionless when you do use a PA, but would like some clarification there.*

The fact that Gu/Hu is superior to Gu/Ra for mobbing is not really up to debate. If you're not TPSing, you will kill more enemies with sroll IF, ER, or SP as a /Hu than as a /Ra. If you ARE TPSing, you are stuck with only IF while /Hu can use shift period to clear the clusterfuck mobs. Not to mention you still do (negligibly) less damage than /Hu even if you do TPS headshot everything perfectly.

For SS, you must be still for about a second before using your PA. This means it directly competes with Sroll JA and is therefore worthless as Gu/Ra, whether you aim to use it or not.

This sure is a tangent and a half ^^;

[FacelessRed]

It might be because hunter is such a good sub and ranger is so comparably under powered that everyone stopped going GU/RA or RA/HU as much.

*checks nearby players list*

*Braver
*Braver
*braver
*Braver
*Braver
*braver
*Braver
*braver
*gunner
*afk guy*
*tech


Despite the damage boost /hu gives to gunnering (Just checked), the kill time is basically the same because of how weak mobs are anyway. Weak point damage on the enemy is also the same as weak point damage as a /hu. But I only play my gunner when running TA's and the WB on the boss makes a fight only a couple seconds long in a group so I prefer /ra all the way~

[Kondibon]

*checks nearby players list*

*Braver
*Braver
*braver
*Braver
*Braver
*braver
*Braver
*braver
*gunner
*afk guy*
*tech


Despite the damage boost /hu gives to gunnering (Just checked), the kill time is basically the same because of how weak mobs are anyway. Weak point damage on the enemy is also the same as weak point damage as a /hu. But I only play my gunner when running TA's and the WB on the boss makes a fight only a couple seconds long in a group so I prefer /ra all the way~Just incase that has anything to do with what I said, I never meant that everyone plays GU/HU, just that GU/RA and RA/HU aren't used as much, and thus, there's less people with weakbullet.

Like, I agree, the difference between GU/RA and GU/HU is negligable, but there's deminishing returns to having more than one or two weakbullet users in most situations, so you'd get more out of GU/HU anyway. If your party needs WB though and everyone else want's to play BR/HU though then you just found your niche :U

[FacelessRed]

Just incase that has anything to do with what I said, I never meant that everyone plays GU/HU, just that GU/RA and RA/HU aren't used as much, and thus, there's less people with weakbullet.

Like, I agree, the difference between GU/RA and GU/HU is negligable, but there's deminishing returns to having more than one or two weakbullet users in most situations, so you'd get more out of GU/HU anyway. If your party needs WB though and everyone else want's to play BR/HU though then you just found your niche :U

I've been stuck in my niche for a while. No one but me has WB ever... ~.~ Besides I like to see 80k + per shot XD

[Triple_S]

I've been stuck in my niche for a while. No one but me has WB ever... ~.~ Besides I like to see 80k + per shot XD

Man, two of my jaw-dropping moments in PSO2 were back during beta and involved huge numbers... one was finding out that I can Rafoie Ragne's weakpoint while locked on behind a tree for massive damage, and the other was seeing Weak Bullet's damage multipliers in action for the first time.

I was like "HOLY FUCKING SHIT THAT'S BROKEN"

Recently had another when I first used Last Nemesis as a BR/RA on a weak point with weak bullet and one-shot a boss with like 150k damage. And then again when I realized how hilarious it is to hurl Banishing Arrow beforehand.

[milranduil]

Sorry, but I stopped listening to your baseless arguments a while ago. You refuse to provide evidence to pretty much anything you say. What are you even trying to say here?

Are you for real?


I've been leveling hunter to try it out as GU/HU, but honestly I'm not liking it. Hitting weak points isn't that hard, and the PA-set that Gunner has, even non-target able weak points are easy to spam down (Just Jump then flip and head weakspots are easy targets, heck you can also TPS em if you really want that Standing snipe damage, though it's usually overkill). So I'm seeing a bigger boost from subbing /ra (and PP recovery on ranger keeps the bullets flying non-stop)

Let's compare notes more specifically since you seem to have zero competency when it comes to math.

/HU:
Fury Stance (1.1) * JA Bonus 1 (1.1) * JA Bonus 2 (1.1) * Fury S Up1 (1.1) * Fury Combo Boost (1.2) * Fury S Up2 (1.1) = 1.93 final multiplier applies to ALL hitboxes headshot, weakpoint, or normal.
/RA:
WHA1 (1.25) * WHA2 (1.25) = 1.56 final multipler headshot/weakpoint only (Standing Snipe is NOT compatible with TMGs if you are SRolling which you should be .

I am not saying Gu/Ra should never be played. However, Gu/Ra does not compare to Gu/Hu outside of boss killing which Gu/Hu is still more than sufficient for anyways with CTLv 1 + MT.

[FacelessRed]

Are you for real?



Let's compare notes more specifically since you seem to have zero competency when it comes to math.

/HU:
Fury Stance (1.1) * JA Bonus 1 (1.1) * JA Bonus 2 (1.1) * Fury S Up1 (1.1) * Fury Combo Boost (1.2) * Fury S Up2 (1.1) = 1.93 final multiplier applies to ALL hitboxes headshot, weakpoint, or normal.
/RA:
WHA1 (1.25) * WHA2 (1.25) = 1.56 final multipler headshot/weakpoint only (Standing Snipe is NOT compatible with TMGs if you are SRolling which you should be .

I am not saying Gu/Ra should never be played. However, Gu/Ra does not compare to Gu/Hu outside of boss killing which Gu/Hu is still more than sufficient for anyways with CTLv 1 + MT.

Standing snipe does work after an S-roll actually... as long as you touch the ground before using a PA.

[MetalDude]

I'm pretty positive Standing Snipe requires actually standing in place for close to a full second for it to work so S-Roll makes this invalid.

[Chdata]

Standing Sniper doesn't work after an sroll.

It's not dependent on "being on the floor", rather it's dependent on "your position in the map not changing".

[FacelessRed]

I'm pretty positive Standing Snipe requires actually standing in place for close to a full second for it to work so S-Roll makes this invalid.

I'm trying to test it further, as its hard to test without my enemies dropping dead. but I'm still seeing a power boost. (and no mag boosts or drink on) But for the most part I've considered it not in use as I've rarely ever tried to make use of it when I'm using TMG's

[Chdata]

You sure you aren't just seeing the sroll JA boost?

[milranduil]

I'm trying to test it further, as its hard to test without my enemies dropping dead. but I'm still seeing a power boost. (and no mag boosts or drink on) But for the most part I've considered it not in use as I've rarely ever tried to make use of it when I'm using TMG's

I just tested it myself and the only time I could proc SS was just firing off IF with no basic attack to JA from, no SRoll, no nothing.

[FacelessRed]

I'm quite certain of my damage with S-roll. as its fairly unchanging, and generally am in a constant state of motion. But on ragne, if I don't stand still before and after I shoot my damage will be around 9XX on a cracked ragne leg. but if I stand still then S-roll then hit Infinite right before the last couple frames of JA it will go up to around 1100 per infinite shot. This is both at point blank range. If that isn't Standing snipe activating then I dunno why the damage changes.

[BIG OLAF]

I just like to play GU/RA (or RA/GU, if I feel like using a launcher) for the Weak Bullet, among other things. My ranged character isn't meant to be a damage juggernaut, and is more for supplementary damage and support.

But, yes, I suppose one could consider Ranger "underpowered", since it's not Braver katanas Shunka.

[milranduil]

TMG gear is the only thing I can think of. I just tested it for 5 minutes messing around with basic -> IF, SRoll -> IF, IF by itself while moving then comparing to IF by itself without moving all well outside of ZRA range to maintain consistency.

[FacelessRed]

Either way, even if SS doesn't work after S-Roll and I'm misreading something (the fight with ragne could be my mag buffing me, but I'm 99% sure I didn't feed the annoying bastard) I don't have a reason to change from /ra. I almost always out DPS anyone else around me already, and then I get WB ontop of all that. I enjoy the class.

Ranger is underpowered, without comparing it to Shunka. Weak bullet is nice but it's not something you would use to fight regular enemies, and planting traps (trust me I tried to go traps) is a pretty big waste of effort.

[Kamekur]

Ranger is underpowered, without comparing it to Shunka. Weak bullet is nice but it's not something you would use to fight regular enemies, and planting traps (trust me I tried to go traps) is a pretty big waste of effort.


I'm pretty sure that's not how you play Ranger effectively.

[FacelessRed]

I'm pretty sure that's not how you play Ranger effectively.

Your statement only compounds the fact that ranger has a largely useless skill tree that adds nothing to the class.

[Kamekur]

Your statement only compounds the fact that ranger has a largely useless skill tree that adds nothing to the class.

Wow that actually made sense. Yup. That's right. See the whole right branch of Ra tree? You only want First Hit. And maybe R-ATK with situational builds. The trap branch is a trap >_>.

Edit: It actually has nothing to do with what I said previously. I'm pretty sure that's not how Rangers mob.

[milranduil]

Either way, even if SS doesn't work after S-Roll and I'm misreading something (the fight with ragne could be my mag buffing me, but I'm 99% sure I didn't feed the annoying bastard) I don't have a reason to change from /ra. I almost always out DPS anyone else around me already, and then I get WB ontop of all that. I enjoy the class.

Ranger is underpowered, without comparing it to Shunka. Weak bullet is nice but it's not something you would use to fight regular enemies, and planting traps (trust me I tried to go traps) is a pretty big waste of effort.

Comparing yourself to others' DPS is irrelevant. That's like saying "oh I'm a good TeFi and I out-DPS 90% of other people!". It has zero meaning without context. If you enjoy GuRa, that's fine, but don't make it about how you're still outdamaging everyone else.

Also, I beg to differ that RA is UP.
http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm22556070
http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm22673974

[FacelessRed]

Comparing yourself to others' DPS is irrelevant. That's like saying "oh I'm a good TeFi and I out-DPS 90% of other people!". It has zero meaning without context. If you enjoy GuRa, that's fine, but don't make it about how you're still outdamaging everyone else.

Also, I beg to differ that RA is UP.
http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm22556070
http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm22673974

*shows video of an over geared character with very specific high class weapons that practices a Ta over and over so that they can get it down to a mechanical science as proof that a class within the bounds of balance is not under powered*

Incredible. And I don't mean the video footage.

[milranduil]

Or they just know how to play their class well and the video is evidence of that. Surprise a class that requires skill to execute correctly. omg!

[Kamekur]

Ranger sucks more than other classes if you suck at the game. Or rather, you don't know how the class works/how to play it, because it requires that you use your brain to make effective use of your entire arsenal. That's fucking it. /argument

[jcart953]

Or they just know how to play their class well and the video is evidence of that. Surprise a class that requires skill to execute correctly. omg!


Ranger sucks more than other classes if you suck at the game. Or rather, you don't know how the class works/how to play it, because it requires that you use your brain to make effective use of your entire arsenal. That's fucking it. /argument

This pretty much sums up the argument against ranger being weak/UP..

[Kondibon]

Ranger sucks more than other classes if you suck at the game. Or rather, you don't know how the class works/how to play it, because it requires that you use your brain to make effective use of your entire arsenal. That's fucking it. /argumentNo, ranger sucks because 2 out of the 3 weapons it can use are morbidly weak, and/or ridiuclously slow compared to the alternatives.

I'd actually argue that it doesn't "suck". It just needs a bit more sustain, as it can't keep up with all the ridiculous multipliers other classes have.

I get more out of weapon variance playing FI/HU than I do playing ranger.

Or they just know how to play their class well and the video is evidence of that. Surprise a class that requires skill to execute correctly. omg!
I agree with Red, showing TA runs by someone who's been practicing and gearing up specifically for them says nothing about how good the class is in general gameplay. Especially since that first one is a TA that doesn't even involve much fighting. TAs have next to no variables, you'd be better off showing solo AQs or spawn killing in TD.

The issue isn't that RA can't be good, it's that the payoff for playing ranger well isn't anywhere near as worth it as the pay off for playing GU or BR well. After a certain point you're putting out more effort for less results. Being able to use something as well as you can doesn't make up for it's weaknesses anyway. Otherwise no one would give a crap about your class comp or skill trees.

[milranduil]

What do you mean geared up specifically for that TA? Every dedicated RA should have: Arao Cylinder, Launcher Legacy/XQ Launcher, Caliburnus, and Jigomi.

Difficulty to play a class is mutually exclusive to the under/overpoweredness of said class. That does not mean difficulty isn't a factor in choosing to play a class, but it is still mutually exclusive to the potential of the class.

[Kondibon]

What do you mean geared up specifically for that TA? Every dedicated RA should have: Arao Cylinder, Launcher Legacy/XQ Launcher, Caliburnus, and Jigomi. Fair enough. I still think TAs are bad examples for class strength


Difficulty to play a class is mutually exclusive to the under/overpoweredness of said class. That does not mean difficulty isn't a factor in choosing to play a class, but it is still mutually exclusive to the potential of the class.That... that was my point. I was saying that being harder to use doesn't make ranger better, and that even if you ARE using it to the best of it's ability it still falls behind. It has a high learning curve with a low potential. Where as BR and GU have low learning curves with high potentials.

Making the most of ranger would be like making the most of techer. You can do it, and it's viable, especially in a party, but it's not gonna keep up with GU or BR in terms of DPS.

[BIG OLAF]

Every dedicated RA should have: Arao Cylinder, Launcher Legacy/XQ Launcher, Caliburnus, and Jigomi.

Oh, thanks for telling everyone what they "should" have. I'm sure everyone is very grateful. What are you doing around here? You should be writing self-help books.

[Sacrificial]

What do you mean geared up specifically for that TA? Every dedicated RA should have: Arao Cylinder, Launcher Legacy/XQ Launcher, Caliburnus, and Jigomi.



I main ra since forever and i only have Arao since like a week. Really, my damage only went up by a bit. Any rifle that comes close in raw power to a max crafted rifle is enough. What you are saying now is that any ra with out those weapons are near useless. That or I'm just taking those words the way.

Also I have traps and sight since forever I rarely use them except for roleplay and TD and i really have laugh every time some capped player asks me wth I just did when I plant one for fun. It's amazing. (No, they don't do anything, i know) I would use stun grenadeseventhough they arent stunning at all) if they weren't buried so far, that I would miss out on the core skills.

[2128drain]

It is hilarious to plant a trap in M.Def and see eleven Shunka Dunkas stand and look at it, trying to figure out what the thing with the health bar is.

[milranduil]

Oh, thanks for telling everyone what they "should" have. I'm sure everyone is very grateful. What are you doing around here? You should be writing self-help books.

It was meant to be a comparison to the fact that something like FI has a a fuck ton of weapons for max damage everywhere (destroyer latents for all of its weapon types, grinding that list of shit was fun during the boost...). Not what every RA should have or is otherwise shit. I'm not pulling an Inazuma here...

I main ra since forever and i only have Arao since like a week. Really, my damage only went up by a bit. Any rifle that comes close in raw power to a max crafted rifle is enough. What you are saying now is that any ra with out those weapons are near useless. That or I'm just taking those words the way.

I'm saying those are the top tier weapons, and that they are the only weapons RA needs. Again, making a comparison that RA doesn't need a boat load of weapons to do all of its damage/jobs, solo or party.

[jcart953]

No, ranger sucks because 2 out of the 3 weapons it can use are morbidly weak, and/or ridiuclously slow compared to the alternatives.

I'd actually argue that it doesn't "suck". It just needs a bit more sustain, as it can't keep up with all the ridiculous multipliers other classes have.

I get more out of weapon variance playing FI/HU than I do playing ranger.

I agree with Red, showing TA runs by someone who's been practicing and gearing up specifically for them says nothing about how good the class is in general gameplay. Especially since that first one is a TA that doesn't even involve much fighting. TAs have next to no variables, you'd be better off showing solo AQs or spawn killing in TD.

The issue isn't that RA can't be good, it's that the payoff for playing ranger well isn't anywhere near as worth it as the pay off for playing GU or BR well. After a certain point you're putting out more effort for less results. Being able to use something as well as you can doesn't make up for it's weaknesses anyway. Otherwise no one would give a crap about your class comp or skill trees.
That argument is backwards seeing as the video clearly shows Ranger is not weak. Not to mention given the guys skill I highly doubt he will have that much trouble in AQs or TD so theres really no point in a video. Even if a video was shown you guys would just discredit it because the guy puts actual effort into it lol. Now if you want to change the debate to which is easier then that a whole different story..


The issue isn't that RA can't be good, it's that the payoff for playing ranger well isn't anywhere near as worth it as the pay off for playing GU or BR well..
Idk looking back at this thread I beg to differ...now as far as the pay-off thing that's totally subjective..... Seems like some of you guys really want to turn this argument into which is more an easy mode class



I main ra since forever and i only have Arao since like a week. Really, my damage only went up by a bit. Any rifle that comes close in raw power to a max crafted rifle is enough. What you are saying now is that any ra with out those weapons are near useless. That or I'm just taking those words the way.

Also I have traps and sight since forever I rarely use them except for roleplay and TD and i really have laugh every time some capped player asks me wth I just did when I plant one for fun. It's amazing. (No, they don't do anything, i know) I would use stun grenadeseventhough they arent stunning at all) if they weren't buried so far, that I would miss out on the core skills.

Those weapons really aren't that hard or expensive to get... Not to mention I think his argument was more or less aimed at people saying the players in the video were "overgeared" or that its somehow hard to get good ranger weapons....

[Kondibon]

That argument is backwards seeing as the video clearly shows Ranger is not weak. Not to mention given the guys skill I highly doubt he will have that much trouble in AQs or TD so theres really no point in a video. Even if a video was shown you guys would just discredit it because the guy puts actual effort into it lol. Now if you want to change the debate to which is easier then that a whole different story.. You're missreading my argument. I don't think Ranger is weak, I think it's weaker than the wtfop classes, a bit slow, and though I haven't mentioned it before, Unlucky's mentioning of the RNG associated with it's PAs comes to mind, but it's not so underpowered at it's max potential.

The reason I feel TAs aren't a good example, is again, they're predictable. When you know exactly what's going to happen and exactly where enemies are gonna spawn then of COURSE you can take advantage of everything ranger has to offer? But oneshotting enemies isn't the only thing here. It's how long it takes to hit them, how much PP it costs, things that, honestly don't matter in TAs because you know exactly when and where enemies are gonna spawn, and thus can do things preemptively. That's not showing the adaptability or quick thinking you'd needed to use ranger well in less controled invironments.



Idk looking back at this thread I beg to differ...now as far as the pay-off thing that's totally subjective..... Seems like some of you guys really want to turn this argument into which is more an easy mode class
I'm not even arguing that Ranger is bad (It could use a buff, but it's still perfectly usable). I just don't think a TA video is showing someone using Ranger to it's full potential anymore than showing someone shoting targets shows how good they are at actual combat.

[Mattykins]

I think the problem is that people are so used to their win-button classes that they forgot that once upon a time, a player needed optimal gear and at least an honest effort to get decent DPS. The RA is a relic of that time, and some of us still cling to it.

[Tenlade]

This thread is funny for seeing every ranger quickly scramble to justify why thier class is still great and no, you just suck and want easy mode for hating it.


I think the problem is that people are so used to their win-button classes that they forgot that once upon a time, a player needed optimal gear to get decent DPS. The RA is a relic of that time, and some of us still cling to it.

See above.

I find it kinda funny that the weak bullet dispenser is being called a skill class now, when it has the lowest skill ceiling to being a useful member of a team. I have to actually time shunka and dodge attacks as a braver. As a ranger i just shoot it with weakbullet, spam some rifle PA and suddenly im credit to team. heck ive done entire runs as te/ra where i did nothing but fire weak bullets and spam resta for the rest of the team.

Ranger has and always will be just a weak bullet dispenser. Doing extra damage is just a bonus.

[milranduil]

This thread is funny for seeing every ranger quickly scramble to justify why thier class is still great and no, you just suck and want easy mode for hating it.



See above.

I find it kinda funny that the weak bullet dispenser is being called a skill class now, when it has the lowest skill ceiling to being a useful member of a team. I have to actually time shunka and dodge attacks as a braver. As a ranger i just shoot it with weakbullet, spam some rifle PA and suddenly im credit to team. heck ive done entire runs as te/ra where i did nothing but fire weak bullets and spam resta for the rest of the team.

Ranger has and always will be just a weak bullet dispenser. Doing extra damage is just a bonus.

10/10 would laugh again. Great troll.

[MetalDude]

Yeah, I wouldn't even give that the time of day.

[2128drain]

I have to actually time shunka and dodge attacks as a braver.

Funniest thing I've read today. Do you have a comedy podcast I can subscribe to?

[Tenlade]

Oh no im serious, show me how another class takes less effort to benefit a party. Even invincibility katana combat requires more button presses and timing then load weak bullet, lockon, fire.

Go ahead call me stupid and tell me i want some win button class, show me your amazing skills oh mighty rangers.

[Kondibon]

I find it kinda funny that the weak bullet dispenser is being called a skill class now, when it has the lowest skill ceiling to being a useful member of a team. I have to actually time shunka and dodge attacks as a braver. As a ranger i just shoot it with weakbullet, spam some rifle PA and suddenly im credit to team. heck ive done entire runs as te/ra where i did nothing but fire weak bullets and spam resta for the rest of the team.

Ranger has and always will be just a weak bullet dispenser. Doing extra damage is just a bonus.On the contrary, playing ranger like that is why people think it's so weak. It does have a high skill ceiling, the problem is that the amount of effort you have to put into it to get the most of it at MOST pulls even with other classes, if even that.

Mattykins is right, but it's not a good thing or anything that would make the class "better" than other classes. Hunter and Force has similar problems. They aren't keeping up with the newer content in the game.


I think the problem is that people are so used to their win-button classes that they forgot that once upon a time, a player needed optimal gear and at least an honest effort to get decent DPS. The RA is a relic of that time, and some of us still cling to it.Repeating what I said for emphesis. More effort for less payoff.

[Mattykins]

I mean, if Sega wants to release a Rifle PA where you hold the Up key to send Homing Emission-style projectiles to every nearby enemy that do 20k apiece, then by all means; it'll be on par with BR and GU in that case :V

[Chdata]

Nah, that'd be instantly above them and be what everyone migrates to using lol

[milranduil]

^ this please so much. I'm tired of missing shotgunned HE by 2 pixels and losing my PP bar.

[Mattykins]

Nah, that'd be instantly above them and be what everyone migrates to using lol

Maybe then I won't be so lonely :c

[Kondibon]

I mean, if Sega wants to release a Rifle PA where you hold the Up key to send Homing Emission-style projectiles to every nearby enemy that do 20k apiece, then by all means; it'll be on par with BR and GU in that case :V
I'd prefer if Launchers just fired faster and had a bit more pp regen, rifles had a bit more base damage (and PA damage) and they nerfed GU/BR/HU.

But we all know they don't do any serious nerfs.

[GALEFORCE]

Comparing yourself to others' DPS is irrelevant. That's like saying "oh I'm a good TeFi and I out-DPS 90% of other people!". It has zero meaning without context. If you enjoy GuRa, that's fine, but don't make it about how you're still outdamaging everyone else.

Also, I beg to differ that RA is UP.
http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm22556070
http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm22673974

In addition to the concerns with predictable enemy placement, I also don't like not knowing what kind of buffs they're using. For all I know, they're using PP drink with PA damage, and for good reason: these are speed runs. No one is going to put up with you resetting for PA damage via RNG on normal runs. To top it off, the second video had every buff imaginable active.

My ra/hu is modestly geared by today's standards I understand, but their damage significantly trumps what I can pull off with mostly 3 slotted gear, and I only get that kind of PP with PP drink. Their gear is either godly or they have the PA damage bonus.

That said, I'm aware ranger PAs are capable of killing things. Even with my lower damage output, I'm able to take out most of the things in these TAs with one thriller. However, I'm not yet convinced that having a launcher is worth the cost of grinding and affixing one. How often are launchers even useful outside of TA and the occasional weak bullet boss instagib?

[Mattykins]

Well, if we're talking about launchers, then no, they're not really what they used to be anymore. Too outclassed by Rifles and Gunslashes. The range is nice on Cluster, but it takes as long as 2 Additional Bullets or Diffuse Shells.

[BIG OLAF]

I'd prefer if Launchers just fired faster and had a bit more pp regen, rifles had a bit more base damage (and PA damage) and they nerfed GU/BR/HU.

But we all know they don't do any serious nerfs.

Don't forget about SEGA needing to remove headshot bonus from launchers, and instead just give them like a raw 1.5x (or more) damage increase.

Because they're goddamn rocket launchers.

Rocket launchers.

Headshots?

[Tenlade]

On the contrary, playing ranger like that is why people think it's so weak. It does have a high skill ceiling, the problem is that the amount of effort you have to put into it to get the most of it at MOST pulls even with other classes, if even that.

Mattykins is right, but it's not a good thing or anything that would make the class "better" than other classes. Hunter and Force has similar problems. They aren't keeping up with the newer content in the game.

Repeating what I said for emphesis. More effort for less payoff.

Other classes have similar skill ceilings but are called "win button" classes here because you have one simple thing you can do to benefit form, but is not the optimal. If you wanna talk about the bare mimimum effort you need to make to give any benefit to your party or a mpa, its aiming a weakbullet and firing it. Don't pretend your class is some master skill thing that people don't play because they're too stupid to use. Its got the same crutches as everyone else, it's crutch just functions differently.

[milranduil]

In addition to the concerns with predictable enemy placement, I also don't like not knowing what kind of buffs they're using. For all I know, they're using PP drink with PA damage, and for good reason: these are speed runs. No one is going to put up with you resetting for PA damage via RNG on normal runs. To top it off, the second video had every buff imaginable active.

My ra/hu is modestly geared by today's standards I understand, but their damage significantly trumps what I can pull off with mostly 3 slotted gear, and I only get that kind of PP with PP drink. Their gear is either godly or they have the PA damage bonus.

That said, I'm aware ranger PAs are capable of killing things. Even with my lower damage output, I'm able to take out most of the things in these TAs with one thriller. However, I'm not yet convinced that having a launcher is worth the cost of grinding and affixing one. How often are launchers even useful outside of TA and the occasional weak bullet boss instagib?


PA Damage up is marginally better than Shifta EX. You can use 2s Mizer/Shoot3 Tian + Burn Leg and get 130 PP with no weapons (dirt cheap, easy to make). PP Drink only really matters if you are solo TAing like these videos. You are otherwise fine with Shifta. Yes, it's harder to cluster bullet in SH. It's also easier to rodeo drive in SH because everything zergs you. There is no reason to not have a Launcher Legacy if you are premium (they cost <100k).

Other classes have similar skill ceilings but are called "win button" classes here because you have one simple thing you can do to benefit form, but is not the optimal. If you wanna talk about the bare mimimum effort you need to make to give any benefit to your party or a mpa, its aiming a weakbullet and firing it. Don't pretend your class is some master skill thing that people don't play because they're too stupid to use. Its got the same crutches as everyone else, it's crutch just functions differently.

You mean like how you're pretending Br is at all difficult to pull off more consistently than any other class except for arguably Gu?

[Kondibon]

Well, if we're talking about launchers, then no, they're not really what they used to be anymore. Too outclassed by Rifles and Gunslashes. The range is nice on Cluster, but it takes as long as 2 Additional Bullets or Diffuse Shells.GU/HU can use Add Bullet effectively too. Just sayin'

All of rifles good PAs are locked behind RNG since none of them are that great before level 11 or 16. I won't completely disregard them, but that's worth keeping in mind.

Though I do have to wonder how any rifle PA other than homing emission could be considered "skill based"

[Mattykins]

I'm not in any way saying that to play RA, you have to be super pro mlg to even make a minimal effort to get even the slightest lick of usefulness.

I just understand that this is PSO-W I'm dealing with, here.

It's not really a super skill-based class. It's just that you don't hold a single button down and suddenly everything is dead :V

[Z-0]

I dunno why people are arguing against this, but Ranger's saving grace is indeed its Weak Bullet now.

Would we really be taking Rangers for anything if Weak Bullet didn't exist? In VH, yes we would, because it could kill a lot of things faster than other classes could. In SH, no, because Gunner and Braver buffs have made them infinitely more useful than Ranger would ever be by itself. Apart from Weak Bullet, Ranger's only contribution that's better than another class would be Cluster Bullet at exit bursts.

[Kondibon]

I'm not in any way saying that to play RA, you have to be super pro mlg to even make a minimal effort to get even the slightest lick of usefulness.

I just understand that this is PSO-W I'm dealing with, here.

It's not really a super skill-based class. It's just that you don't hold a single button down and suddenly everything is dead :V
As someone who's spent a lot of time playing ranger recently, I'll tell you right now that it's terrible untill you get all those awesome PAs, and by then it just breaks even. Most of the classes don't have winbuttons they just have less of a learning curve. It comes down to "when to use something" where as ranger has to worry about the how as well since most of it's PAs are good for one thing and nothing else.

I've heard the horror stories about people face planting while using shunka badly, and I think everyone forgets that Gunner has more than 2 PAs. The problem isn't that they have a winbutton so much as they have PAs that can be use in many situations, thus people try to use them for everything (even when they shouldn't), but if you try that with Ranger it seems weaker than it is by comparion because it's PAs aren't as multipurpose.

Does that make sense?

[GALEFORCE]

Last I checked Tian set was like 11 trillion meseta. How cheap are they now?

As for rodeo, I never had much luck with it. In SH, it wasn't killing anything in one hit, and enemies closed in too quickly for it to hit multiple times. Frankly, I was always better off Thrillersploding them. That was with a signohead launcher though. I'm contemplating getting a new one depending on how good the new rifle PA turns out to be.

[milranduil]

They have been 1k since TD released. I don't know before then. Burn Leg unit is like 10-20k.

The idea with Rodeo Drive is to jump before using it so that the blast hits headshots. It will OHKO if you use it correctly.

[Mattykins]

Yeh, I understand what you're saying. Really, though, Diffuse 16 isn't too terribly hard to find. I can understand Additional Bullet and Impact Slide since those are rare PAs, though.

I guess I would kinda like if Sega doubled RA's damage output... :<

[milranduil]

Yeh, I understand what you're saying. Really, though, Diffuse 16 isn't too terribly hard to find. I can understand Additional Bullet and Impact Slide since those are rare PAs, though.

I guess I would kinda like if Sega doubled RA's damage output... :<

I found Impact Slider and AddBullet 16 several weeks before I found Diffuse16 :wacko: which was only just recently (I capped RA and GU before finding any of them besides AddBullet16 because xmas).

[Bellion]

They were definitely not using PP drink w/ PA Damage Up. Notice how their PP didn't drop after going back to the campship.
Rangers use Random Drink for Weak Hit Advance/Elemental Weak Hit instead because it's 20% damage up or 25% if you're premium. It's also much less RNG dependant than PP Drink w/ PA Damage Up because it can only choose between 3 side effects.

[Mattykins]

Huh, interesting. I still have Add.Bullet 13, though I don't recall where I found Impact Slide 16...

[milranduil]

They were definitely not using PP drink w/ PA Damage Up. Notice how their PP didn't drop after going back to the campship.
Rangers use Random Drink for Weak Hit Advance/Elemental Weak Hit instead because it's 20% damage up or 25% if you're premium. It's also much less RNG dependant than PP Drink w/ PA Damage Up because it can only choose between 3 side effects.

Only tryhards who 5s would have that much PP omg!

[Tenlade]

I'm not in any way saying that to play RA, you have to be super pro mlg to even make a minimal effort to get even the slightest lick of usefulness.

I just understand that this is PSO-W I'm dealing with, here.

It's not really a super skill-based class. It's just that you don't hold a single button down and suddenly everything is dead :V
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dxh-vgTTmmQ
No, thats pretty much weakbullet and spamming a button until its dead.Killing a boss designed for a party of 4 players in under 30 seconds with 8 shots while its stunned from damage the entire time isn't exactly a high skill ceiling, unless you count being decked in gear as skill. This is even easier if you're with a party, as you don't even need to be the one capable of dealing high damage for the same results.
This class has always been the easy-mode boss class , and the only skill involves is shooting a weakpoint you make until it dies and having enough gear or party members to kill it before weakbullet goes off.

you can argue about being able to solo a quest meant for 4 players requires a lot more skill to be effective, but the same can be said for all other classes too, making it a moot point.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zF9DUqClN8A
(combining braver with ranger just leads to more hilarity)

[Z-0]

I have 133 PP with my 5 slots, sopro.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dxh-vgTTmmQ
omg valkyrie profile mmusic. best game ever

[Xaelouse]

lvl16 zero distance is not too shabby and does more damage than diffuse but a bit harder to use outside SH. New launcher PA also looks fantastic for bosses but launcher doesn't have WB so yeah

[Rehal]

They were definitely not using PP drink w/ PA Damage Up. Notice how their PP didn't drop after going back to the campship.
Rangers use Random Drink for Weak Hit Advance/Elemental Weak Hit instead because it's 20% damage up or 25% if you're premium. It's also much less RNG dependant than PP Drink w/ PA Damage Up because it can only choose between 3 side effects.

15% for nonprem, 20% for prem.

[Tenlade]

Im Looking forward to trying out the sattelite cannon PA, and seeing how it turns out. It'll be an interesting combination with weakbullet thats for sure.


I have 133 PP with my 5 slots, sopro.


omg valkyrie profile mmusic. best game ever

No lie, been listening to the soundtrack this week, I love that game's music.

[milranduil]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dxh-vgTTmmQ
No, thats pretty much weakbullet and spamming a button until its dead.Killing a boss designed for a party of 4 players in under 30 seconds with 8 shots while its stunned from damage the entire time isn't exactly a high skill ceiling, unless you count being decked in gear as skill. This is even easier if you're with a party, as you don't even need to be the one capable of dealing high damage for the same results.
This class has always been the easy-mode boss class , and the only skill involves is shooting a weakpoint you make until it dies and having enough gear or party members to kill it before weakbullet goes off.

you can argue about being able to solo a quest meant for 4 players requires a lot more skill to be effective, but the same can be said for all other classes too, making it a moot point.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zF9DUqClN8A
(combining braver with ranger just leads to more hilarity)

Congrats you found probably the easiest boss for RA to kill. Now go make a Dragon Ex.

I have 133 PP with my 5 slots, sopro.

Wow not even t-def craft, pls.

[GALEFORCE]

They were definitely not using PP drink w/ PA Damage Up. Notice how their PP didn't drop after going back to the campship.
Rangers use Random Drink for Weak Hit Advance/Elemental Weak Hit instead because it's 20% damage up or 25% if you're premium. It's also much less RNG dependant than PP Drink w/ PA Damage Up because it can only choose between 3 side effects.

That does explain the damage discrepancy, though according to my calcs they would have needed spirita boost and mizer on all four pieces of gear to hit that number. It's far from unachievable, but as a gu I really never needed that much PP.

[Z-0]

Wow not even t-def craft, pls.
Been working on levelling my tech craft. ;[ Damn 1 hour cool downs.

I'm done now tho so I'll fix it later so I have... 139 PP1!1!!O1ne

[Chdata]

I have 133 PP with my 5 slots, sopro.


omg valkyrie profile mmusic. best game ever

nub, I know people with 180+


Hohoho! Poor People!!1onw

[Bellion]

15% for nonprem, 20% for prem.

Oh god dang it, yeah, it's 15% and 20% respectively.

[Z-0]

Do you know the numbers for Shifta Drink and PA damage up?

I remember trying PA damage Up a while ago and I wasn't any stronger with it than with Shifta.

[milranduil]

When I tested it trying to OHKO Degallas in Sanctum TA, it was on the order of a 1% damage difference.

[Tenlade]

Congrats you found probably the easiest boss for RA to kill. Now go make a Dragon Ex.
'k
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jimkPOkcvlg&feature=player_detailpage#t=464
(7 minutes 45 seconds if the time feature doesnt work, rest of video is pretty neat)
very hard mode video, but any changes in difficulty wouldnt have made any of the other classes have an easier time then ranger does.

[milranduil]

That does explain the damage discrepancy, though according to my calcs they would have needed spirita boost and mizer on all four pieces of gear to hit that number. It's far from unachievable, but as a gu I really never needed that much PP.

My best guess 146PP with Nightmare blood equipped (0pp weapon):

Gwanman/Tian crafted Rear + Arm + WhiteTail + Mizer/Spirita3 on each = 3 + 3 + 10 + 10 + 7 + 7 + 7 = 147PP. He probably used Fang Soul on one of them.

'k
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jimkPOkcvlg&feature=player_detailpage#t=464
(7 minutes 45 seconds if the time feature doesnt work, rest of video is pretty neat)
very hard mode video, but any changes in difficulty wouldnt have made any of the other classes have an easier time then ranger does.

He remade a much better version (http://youtu.be/l5R6QclveIw?t=5m48s), but it's still VH which makes a huge difference compared to SH. Dragon Ex moves much, much faster and has a lot more HP at 65 compared to 55. Good luck successfully holding your HE lock ons when he spins. Also, and I really shouldn't have to be pointing this out, but these are boss only vids. There is more in this game than bosses...

[Bellion]

Reading a bit back...
Holy fuck, are you kidding me? Using my own videos as an argument for Ra being an easy mode class?

A Braver vs Ranger against Dragon Ex in SH? The Braver has a much easier time and can kill it faster. Have you tried killing Dragon Ex in SH with both classes? Clearly not.

[Z-0]

Ex is impossible in SH. :< I could only win once I got Combat Escape.

[Kondibon]

Ex is impossible in SH. :< I could only win once I got Combat Escape.

CHALLENGE ACCEPTED!...

Is what I want to say, but I don't think I could beat him without Combat Escape either...

[milranduil]

I don't mind fighting him without CE as long as I have Katana guard. As FI on the other hand... yeah that's just frustrating.

[cheapgunner]

Ex is impossible in SH. :< I could only win once I got Combat Escape.


CHALLENGE ACCEPTED!...

Is what I want to say, but I don't think I could beat him without Combat Escape either...

I know this all too well. I tried this on my force but had a Noire on SH instead. Spent like 10 min dodging nearly everythin but as I brought him to like 40% or so I got hit for 904 dmg in one hit when I had like 574 HP or so. Combat escape, and GM on Gunners with lol flips is really the best options to beat him when he's grumpy.

[milranduil]

Breaking his/her right arm makes the fight much, much easier. Getting there can be tedious depending on AI though.

[cheapgunner]

Breaking his/her right arm makes the fight much, much easier. Getting there can be tedious depending on AI though.

True but if he's jumping around like a flea then that becomes even more difficult. Can't imagine trying to solo him with just a sword though. >.>

[Kondibon]

Can't imagine trying to solo him with just a sword though. >.>Guilty Break erryday

[GALEFORCE]

Do you know the numbers for Shifta Drink and PA damage up?

I remember trying PA damage Up a while ago and I wasn't any stronger with it than with Shifta.

PA Damage Up is 10%. Shifta Drink is 20% of your base stats. Shifta Drink should come close to PA Damage Up, except without the PP boost.

http://pso2.swiki.jp/index.php?%E3%83%89%E3%83%AA%E3%83%B3%E3%82%AF%E3% 83%A1%E3%83%8B%E3%83%A5%E3%83%BC

[Tenlade]

Reading a bit back...
Holy fuck, are you kidding me? Using my own videos as an argument for Ra being an easy mode class?

A Braver vs Ranger against Dragon Ex in SH? The Braver has a much easier time and can kill it faster. Have you tried killing Dragon Ex in SH with both classes? Clearly not.

I show quartz getting stomped, and get told that dragon ex would be too difficult for it, i show you dragon ex, and get told dragon ex sh is too hard for it. If i dont come up with a video tomorrow are you going to go "Hah, it couldnt solo dragon ex on super hard" as some validation that this is not easy mode class? What will you demand if i show that then, Den solo? Extreme quest solo?

Go ahead and keep moving the goalposts, I've already proved my point.

[milranduil]

I show quartz getting stomped, and get told that dragon ex would be too difficult for it, i show you dragon ex, and get told dragon ex sh is too hard for it. If i dont come up with a video tomorrow are you going to go "Hah, it couldnt solo dragon ex on super hard" as some validation that this is not easy mode class? What will you demand if i show that then, Den solo? Extreme quest solo?

Go ahead and keep moving the goalposts, I've already proved my point.

One step at a time. SH Dragon Ex vid please.

[Bellion]

I want you to try to mimic any of the things I've done and want to see your success. You don't even know half of the effort needed to make Ra to be able to hold its own.

I want to see if you can do more than just talk out of your ass and show someone else what they do and just pass it off as it being easy. Do I have to like make a Ranger vs Braver against Dragon Ex SH video to shut you up? I have nothing to prove at all when you clearly know nothing at all.

[btw-Niji]

I honestly want to see a RAHU solo SH abduction. Is there any video of this, yet?

[Rehal]

I show quartz getting stomped, and get told that dragon ex would be too difficult for it, i show you dragon ex, and get told dragon ex sh is too hard for it. If i dont come up with a video tomorrow are you going to go "Hah, it couldnt solo dragon ex on super hard" as some validation that this is not easy mode class? What will you demand if i show that then, Den solo? Extreme quest solo?

Go ahead and keep moving the goalposts, I've already proved my point.

What was proven by whom?

[Chdata]

The reason Ra is generally easy modo is because you generally just have to load weak bullet, shoot, and afk/dodge for teammates.

On its own it's pretty annoying to play.

[Kikikiki]

Wait what, what examples?

[HBK666]

I want you to try to mimic any of the things I've done and want to see your success. You don't even know half of the effort needed to make Ra to be able to hold its own.

I want to see if you can do more than just talk out of your ass and show someone else what they do and just pass it off as it being easy. Do I have to like make a Ranger vs Braver against Dragon Ex SH video to shut you up? I have nothing to prove at all when you clearly know nothing at all.

http://s0.uploads.im/ozmYA.gif

[Chdata]

He linked some of bell/yumi's vids.

[milranduil]

Im not your fucking Netflix box and im not going to cater to you both handing you any video you demand. I've given you examples and all you ask for are more.

You can keep whining how other players playing thier "easymode bravers" are to blame,and how your class requires so much more skill, because i guess blaming others is the easymode to facing reality.

Keep in mind these are SH days, and you showed VH Dragon Ex. That video was, in every way, irrelevant. You showed us nothing. Keep in mind I main Br, not Ra, but I did for a while. Br is cake compared to Ra.

[Kikikiki]

He linked some of bell/yumi's vids.

Oh, so it's like Inazuma going around being like "hey, this is how I do it, too, so I don't have to post a video, I'll use this instead."

Nothing unusual here.

[Kondibon]

Now that I think about it. What do vids have to with anything since the conversation clearly has moved to which classes are easier, not which are stronger?

Watching a video of someone playing a class well doesn't give you a good measure of how easy or hard it is anyway. ._. You'd have to do it your self.

[Zipzo]

So I came in here hoping to learn about how to play Ranger effectively when not AFK/Weak Bullet-ing.

...I got something else...

[Kondibon]

So I came in here hoping to learn about how to play Ranger effectively when not AFK/Weak Bullet-ing.

...I got something else...I can't tell if that's sarcasm or not, but I can say that's basically how I feel about any build or class related conversations/thread...

[Triple_S]

So I came in here hoping to learn about how to play Ranger effectively when not AFK/Weak Bullet-ing.

...I got something else...

Aim at big fucking heads

pull trigger

cry because your damage is still really bad

EDIT: Okay fine. Compared to other classes it's not great. But it's still good. In the current state of the game, I will say Ranger is underpowered compared to Gunner and Braver. But I can't say that, ignoring those two, it's necessarily balanced.

On the TF2 forums we had a term for things that aren't quite balanced, but not bad enough to be underpowered. We called those things, "underbalanced."

I feel Ranger is underbalanced. While I wouldn't call it hard, Ranger does have to put forth more effort and do more things to get on par with other classes in terms of damage, and (thankfully) won't reach Braver or Gunner tier at all. But at the same time, Weak Bullet is so fucking crazy.

[Zipzo]

I can't tell if that's sarcasm or not, but I can say that's basically how I feel about any build or class related conversations/thread...

Definitely not, Ranger is one of the two classes I have left to cap and I really have no freakin' clue how to play it well aside from when WB is needed. Got a +10/50 Ele/Latented AR, Launcher, and GS...and no idea how to use 'em.

[Triple_S]

Definitely not, Ranger is one of the two classes I have left to cap and I really have no freakin' clue how to play it well aside from when WB is needed.

Oh, you were being serious?

Well alright, it's really not that difficult. It does require more effort, but it's not too hard.

OKAY!

Weak Bullet is definitely your friend. Like, this is beyond a shadow of a doubt the best thing you can do if you have access to it. Well, against bosses anyway. Really, bosses are what you as a Ranger will be most effective at handling - they have clearly defined weak points and you have a single target to focus on (most of the time). Plop Weak Bullet on them and hammer away with the strongest PA you have! If you have PP Save Bullet it's easier to manage having Weak Bullet loaded, but definitely invest in increasing your PP (the medical center is your friend btw).

As for mobbing... Well, Thrillsplosion and Additional Bullshit will definitely help you out there. S'too bad Launchers are balls at it now.

[Bellion]

The best way to learn is to experiment with the class yourself.
How do certain PAs work?
What's their damage output like?
Which ones are effective at hitting specific weakpoints?
What if a mix of enemy X and Y are present?
Is PA A better than PA B in situation C?
Can PA A be used in multiple ways that are effective?

Watching what someone does can give you an idea of what you can try to do and possibly adapt to your play style. Someone can recommend you to play it in a certain way but you need to actually do it yourself for a bit to make it stick and work.

There's too much to explain(imo) to play the Ra class well. If you specify an enemy and want to learn how to get rid of it as fast as possible, well go ahead and ask. Of course, the level of PAs you have will factor into what becomes viable or not. There are also other factors that need to be accounted for and it sort of gets annoying to explain everything.

[Zipzo]

The best way to learn is to experiment with the class yourself.
How do certain PAs work?
What's their damage output like?
Which ones are effective at hitting specific weakpoints?
What if a mix of enemy X and Y are present?
Is PA A better than PA B in situation C?
Can PA A be used in multiple ways that are effective?

Watching what someone does can give you an idea of what you can try to do and possibly adapt to your play style. Someone can recommend you to play it in a certain way but you need to actually do it yourself for a bit to make it stick and work.

There's too much to explain(imo) to play the Ra class well. If you specify an enemy and want to learn how to get rid of it as fast as possible, well go ahead and ask. Of course, the level of PAs you have will factor into what becomes viable or not. There are also other factors that need to be accounted for and it sort of gets annoying to explain everything.

I felt like I just read a gigantic excuse to not give me a few quick pointers, especially once I got to the bolded part, when a few quick pointers might have just been easier.

I'm not a stupid player, if you say...

"Use X on mobs"
"Use X on bosses"

I can work out the logistics myself.

[MetalDude]

Generally, aiming Diffuse Shell slightly up is good for most mobs. IS is great if you have a targetable weakpoint to work with. Sneak Shooter sets up Standing Snipe very easily so it's good to link into anything else (usually DS or IS). Cluster Bullet is great in bursts as always and Crazy Smash -> Rodeo Drive is a very quick way to get yourself on the enemy (although you lose Standing Snipe by doing this). Flame Bullet has its uses, it's a bit more niche but it gets really strong if you have an Agni Bazooka.

For bosses, I prefer Homing Emission on large targets and IS/DS/Sneak on anything more precise. Aiming Shot can cover rifle's troubles with hitting non-targetable weakpoints (like Rockbear's face).

[Bellion]

Oh, you mean like:
Use Addition Bullet when a group of mobs have their heads/weakpoints facing you
Use Cluster Bullet when a group of mobs have their heads/weakpoints that can be hit from above
Use Diffuse Shell/Thrillerploder Lv 16 on mobs that are really close to you
Use Homing Emission Lv11, Diffuse Shell Lv16, Impact Slider Lv16, Aiming Shot Lv16, and Rodeo Drive on certain bosses/single targets

I think it needs a bit more explaining, but whatever.

[Zipzo]

Oh, you mean like:
Use Addition Bullet when a group of mobs have their heads/weakpoints facing you
Use Cluster Bullet when a group of mobs have their heads/weakpoints that can be hit from above
Use Diffuse Shell/Thrillerploder Lv 16 on mobs that are really close to you
Use Homing Emission Lv11, Diffuse Shell Lv16, Impact Slider Lv16, Aiming Shot Lv16, and Rodeo Drive on certain bosses/single targets

I think it needs a bit more explaining, but whatever.

Additional Bullet seems to be pretty weak sauce now-a-days, it seems not nearly enough to KO packs that are not from Forest.

Homing emission on bosses I get, Cluster Bullet on mob packs I get as well however...

Diffuse shell without that single specific rifle that boosts point blank damage?

Impact slider also spends a great deal of time dealing (pretty good) damage to a mob that could be dead much sooner otherwise.

Aiming Shot I get.

Rodeo Drive I'd need to see when and where this PA is optimal in practice.

Flame Bullet seems *really* good. Don't know why Agni Bazooka would make it so much stronger, I don't see that it has any kind of latent or anything.

From what I've gathered (at least based on minimal experience and testing), the choices that have earned me the most mileage are using launchers with concentrated/cluster for ranged mob pack decimation, flame bullet for close up tightly packed clusters.

Keigan for aoe control. Sneak Shooter and Homing emission for the seemingly only useful rifle PAs.

[Bellion]

Diffuse Shell at Lv 16 on its own is powerful enough. Sometimes you're not even in range of the ZRA latent of the Arao Cylinder and it'll still wreck things.
Impact Slider is great because of the accuracy, damage, and can be used as a gap closer.
Rodeo Drive is a hit or a miss. For Goranzoran and Bal Rodos, it's really good since it's like you're hitting a wall and getting all of your hits in. For mobbing you'd have to go for a bunch of them lined up and for something like a lone/clustered Garongo, you can kill them in one Rodeo Drive with the correct distancing of the curve.
Flame Bullet is the only Launcher PA that you can get Standing Snipe after using it because it doesn't have any recoil that'll push your character back.

[Zipzo]

I must say...

DAT new Rifle PA.

Welcome Rangers to the "I'm good at TD" club.

[Kondibon]

I must say...

DAT new Rifle PA.

Welcome Rangers to the "I'm good at TD" club.Tell me more. Isn't it slow or something? D:

[isCasted]

Even invincibility katana combat requires more button presses and timing then load weak bullet, lockon, fire.

Good luck locking on Zeshy's weak spots. Or Rockbear's face. Or finding out that locking on Quartz's nose will not guarantee that WB will be placed on it.


Ex is impossible in SH. :< I could only win once I got Combat Escape.

You don't need Combat Escape to kill it with, say, Twin Daggers. Twirl timing is really simple.


The best way to learn is to experiment with the class yourself.

Which is how games like PSO2 generally should work. That's why I like Ranger.

[Bellion]

The charge time for Satellite Cannon is 3 seconds.

[The_Brimada]

Loving Satellite cannon so far

[Kondibon]

Gawd, I'm just gonna go to sleep and mess with all this when I wake up. My head hurts.

[Bellion]

[SPOILER-BOX]www.youtube.com/watch?v=ct5u7BV_ZxI[/SPOILER-BOX]

Not exactly the best boss to use it on, but it'll do.

[Z-0]

Well, have you tried it yet!?!

[HBK666]

130k+ well damn.

[Z-0]

Three levels of charge. The less you charge, the more AoE, the more you charge, the more power (and hits).

Uncharged, it will do 1 hit, and I get around 10,000 headshot.
Charge Level 1, it will do 2 hits, and I get around 19,000 headshot.
Charge Level 2, it will do 3 hits, and I get around 39,000 headshot.

This is done with just Shifta Drink EX, on the first enemies in Altar SH TA.

[final_attack]

That Satellite damage ..... amazing ＞＜
I only tried on alt, VH Nab ..... but .... yeah, still 45/34 RaHu

[SPOILER-BOX]
Non-weak and weak spot damage, both fully charged

I do have better weapon, but, still not enough R-Atk to equip :<

http://puu.sh/7JX7z.jpg
[/SPOILER-BOX]

[Daiyousei]

Someone said on 2ch someone was able to pull off 450k per hit.

[final_attack]

with Chain Trigger + Chain Finish maybe ? o.o

[WildarmsRE5]

Also, I beg to differ that RA is UP.
http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm22556070
http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm22673974


The best way to learn is to experiment with the class yourself.
How do certain PAs work?
What's their damage output like?
Which ones are effective at hitting specific weakpoints?
What if a mix of enemy X and Y are present?
Is PA A better than PA B in situation C?
Can PA A be used in multiple ways that are effective?

Watching what someone does can give you an idea of what you can try to do and possibly adapt to your play style. Someone can recommend you to play it in a certain way but you need to actually do it yourself for a bit to make it stick and work.

There's too much to explain(imo) to play the Ra class well. If you specify an enemy and want to learn how to get rid of it as fast as possible, well go ahead and ask. Of course, the level of PAs you have will factor into what becomes viable or not. There are also other factors that need to be accounted for and it sort of gets annoying to explain everything.


That Satellite damage ..... amazing ＞＜
I only tried on alt, VH Nab ..... but .... yeah, still 45/34 RaHu

[SPOILER-BOX]
Non-weak and weak spot damage, both fully charged

I do have better weapon, but, still not enough R-Atk to equip :<

http://puu.sh/7JX7z.jpg
[/SPOILER-BOX]


[SPOILER-BOX]www.youtube.com/watch?v=ct5u7BV_ZxI[/SPOILER-BOX]

Not exactly the best boss to use it on, but it'll do.http://i0.wp.com/memecollection.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/heavy-breathing-cat.jpg?w=900

[Aine]

The hit detection on Satellite appears to be from the ground up (like the old Zonde), which has some implications for WHA.

[otaku998]

Is there a big gap of power between level 1 and level 16?

[2128drain]

Is there a big gap of power between level 1 and level 16?

L1 - 447%
L16 - 522%

[Tenlade]

Yep, you literally are a pile of shit.
Wonderful rebuttal good sir, Classy as always.


But you know what i guess a video shows nothing,especialy if its from someone else, so how about i give this thread a little something more effort. I decided to take on solo dragon ex myself, and give a comprehensive review of it, I already did one run with screencaps,but still need to write out what was going on for each, and ill see if my computer can handle a recording.

I'll post the results in this thread when im done. Oh and ive never played a ranger up to super hard, i have to use it as a gimped subclass, so this will be an excellent way for me to see this fantastic challenge you guys keep saying it is in super hard. And dont you worry, I'm going to wield nothing but a rifle and launcher for the occasion, so we have no worries about other classes making it easy.(i guess a gunslash would count too but eh)

[Z-0]

If Bellion is calling someone a pile of shit, you really have done something wrong.