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View Full Version : PC Your control method: KB+M or Controller?



DJcooltrainer
Apr 3, 2014, 08:49 AM
I've been playing this game with my KB+M since it came out, and I like how I can quickly snap the camera around and make movements. I've got an Xbox 360 USB pad that I know is natively supported, but I haven't been bothered to try it yet. I'm just kind of curious to see what most people prefer, and for what reasons.

I've recently been suffering from pretty severe lower back pain, and my doctor recommended that I spend less time sitting until I recover, which has really reduced the amount of time I will let myself play PSO2. (I spend 8 hours a day working a desk job, probably shouldn't be sitting again when I get home.) I've been thinking about trying to play with a controller while standing at my desk to see if that might be better.

Shinamori
Apr 3, 2014, 08:50 AM
KB+M because I can rotate the camera., and by now, I'm just plain use to it.

gigawuts
Apr 3, 2014, 08:51 AM
Both. I swap between depending on what I'm doing and if I want to lean back or not.

The default controller layout is pretty awful for PSO2. While it was good in PSO1 and PSU, this is a game where precision matters much more. I use a layout based on a dark souls config, which has been pretty great. Attacks & guards with triggers, jumping/evading/using with buttons, etc.

jooozek
Apr 3, 2014, 08:55 AM
gamepad purely since a year or so, previously kb+m purely for a year
:-?

Inazuma
Apr 3, 2014, 08:58 AM
I use an Xbox 360 controller and JoyToKey to configure my controls.

Zenobia
Apr 3, 2014, 08:59 AM
Game pad all day, customized. I have different customization depending on which class I play.

Crystal_Shard
Apr 3, 2014, 08:59 AM
KB + M, because it's more comfortable to use the extra 12 side buttons that my mouse gives me + the custom layout of my keyboard replacement, than to get carpal tunnel trying to press the shortcut keys.

UnLucky
Apr 3, 2014, 09:04 AM
Never even considered a controller when I first picked up the game. I need that 0-9 subpalette and 1-9 numpad. And I'm not going to deal with manual aim on a stick.

ChinaSue
Apr 3, 2014, 09:07 AM
I use KB+M mainly because TPS and dashing always felt awkward to me on a controller. Also, I have a mouse with a lot of extra buttons, and being that I primarily play force, having all of those extra buttons makes the class very comfortable to play.

Daiyousei
Apr 3, 2014, 09:09 AM
Kb+m here, I can coordinate my jumps easier and do jump attacks without awkwardness, as well as having attacks and fast camera control on the same hand. I can react more quickly and take quick glances at my surroundings.

Angelo
Apr 3, 2014, 09:12 AM
Controller : Hunter, Fighter, Braver, Wand Techter

Keyboard + Mouse: Everything else.

final_attack
Apr 3, 2014, 09:15 AM
KB + M here (must use, can't do JA / move properly unless I use kb + m ^^; ) ..... and using controller to mash button (Turbo function of MotionInJoy, pressed using .... toe(?). Back then when I don't have gaming mouse.)

Only KB + M now.

DJcooltrainer
Apr 3, 2014, 09:18 AM
I use an Xbox 360 controller and JoyToKey to configure my controls.

Is there a reason you use JoyToKey when the 360 pads are supported natively? Macros?

I'm going to try using mine tonight, but I'm kinda worried I'll get pissed off not having the 1-0 hotkeys.

Angelo
Apr 3, 2014, 09:22 AM
Is there a reason you use JoyToKey when the 360 pads are supported natively? Macros?

I'm going to try using mine tonight, but I'm kinda worried I'll get pissed off not having the 1-0 hotkeys.

I know I keep plugging this controller: http://www.thinkcomputers.org/images/unboxing/64.jpg

But it's a godsend. I have 1~3 as my mates, 4 as Massive Hunter (yes, I use that), 5 (my L2 default) as Warcry, 6~7 as my stances, 8 as Moon Atomizer, 9 as a Telepipe, and 0 as my PB.

It's worked perfectly fine.

Vampy
Apr 3, 2014, 09:24 AM
I play either but more comfortable with a pad I feel I could get really good with kb + m, but I do not have the patience for it most times especially when playing gunner.

gigawuts
Apr 3, 2014, 09:25 AM
Joy2key is great for macros and button combinations.

Also, PSO2 doesn't recognize the triggers as separate inputs, since it doesn't use the "new" xinput format (new as in since the xbox 360 came out). It uses the old directinput. As a way of promoting upgrading to "new" software, Microsoft put both triggers on one axis. Pressing one is like pushing up on a thumbstick, pressing the other is like pushing down on a thumbstick. Pressing both is like doing nothing at all. Pretty stupid of Sega to still not get with the last generation there.

So a third party program is required to make use of both triggers at once. I use xpadder for that, and joy2key for button combos since j2k doesn't recognize xinput and xpadder glitches out when holding buttons during button combos.

Aeris
Apr 3, 2014, 09:27 AM
Keyboard and Mouse, really don't like the cam movement with a controller.

Xaelouse
Apr 3, 2014, 09:31 AM
kb+m whenever available
sorry, I've long since moved on from being a console pleb

DJcooltrainer
Apr 3, 2014, 09:39 AM
kb+m whenever available
sorry, I've long since moved on from being a console pleb

For me it has nothing to do with consoles, I own a 360 pad (as well as an arcade stick) and no xbox 360, just because it's a quality controller. You ever try playing Street Fighter IV with a keyboard? Good luck. Most hardcore PC gamers I know own nice keyboards and mice, but also a nice gamepad.

For me right now, though, it's a matter of physical pain preventing me from sitting comfortably for more than about an hour at a time.



Also, WTF Sega, still not support the the triggers for 360 pads? Directinput? Really? This isn't Blue Burst anymore. D:

FacelessRed
Apr 3, 2014, 10:15 AM
Keyboard + mouse. TPS with controller is pretty much one of the most disgusting default set ups ever.

Daiyousei
Apr 3, 2014, 10:18 AM
For controller I use a logitech F310. It has a switch to switch between directinput and xinput. It's also only $20 when I got it.

UnLucky
Apr 3, 2014, 10:21 AM
For me it has nothing to do with consoles, I own a 360 pad (as well as an arcade stick) and no xbox 360, just because it's a quality controller. You ever try playing Street Fighter IV with a keyboard? Good luck. Most hardcore PC gamers I know own nice keyboards and mice, but also a nice gamepad.

Well as long as you don't play SF4 with a gamepad, or PSO2 with the arcade stick...

I got a wired 360 pad a while ago to replace an old Interact one since everyone said it was so great, but the lack of a functional d-pad makes it worthless for any 2D game or for navigating menus.

Wish they just made a slim version of the original xbox controller with the same 6 face button layout (hate the placement on the S) with the level of support as the 360. At least the xbone has a real d-pad, or so I hear.

Cyclon
Apr 3, 2014, 10:24 AM
Controller for every class I actually play as, while using the keyboard for 1->0 keys. Kinda awkward when everything goes wrong, but much more confortable for meleeing in general imo.

Edit: and still rocking the gamecube controller because.

gigawuts
Apr 3, 2014, 10:24 AM
So, has anyone used an Xbox One controller with PSO2? My old XB360 controller is from one of the earlier production runs that didn't start to break down after 30 days, and has lasted me a good year and a half now, but it's on its way out.

I'm curious if the XBone controllers are any good, are recognized by the game properly, etc.

Arkanoid
Apr 3, 2014, 10:31 AM
Also, WTF Sega, still not support the the triggers for 360 pads? Directinput? Really? This isn't Blue Burst anymore. D:

I know this sounds funny but I really like that they have Directinput. I guess it would be better if they supported Xinput as well, especially since you are now using third party programs to get triggers on a 360 controller to work. But in nearly every lazy console-to-PC port nowadays I end up having to use third party programs for ALL of those games that I want to use a controller on because I'm not using a 360 controller on my PC and those games have no controller options whatsoever other than "hey plug in a 360 controller!"

UnLucky
Apr 3, 2014, 10:33 AM
Yeah isn't it great how games now either support nothing at all, or only the 360 controller? It's not like there are preexisting standards for input devices or anything.

Rev+
Apr 3, 2014, 10:37 AM
I use keyboard and mouse. I couldn't imagine playing this game on controller unless you use xpadder or joy2key.

Arkanoid
Apr 3, 2014, 10:37 AM
Well as long as you don't play SF4 with a gamepad, or PSO2 with the arcade stick...


I have played PSO2 with whatever the default controller setup is on an arcade stick and a USB Saturn pad that I had plugged in xD. And by played I don't really mean played, I mean walked around awkwardly with no camera control and stopped after 1 minute.


Controller for every class I actually play as, while using the keyboard for 1->0 keys. Kinda awkward when everything goes wrong, but much more confortable for meleeing in general imo.

Edit: and still rocking the gamecube controller because.

I still play Blue Burst that way pretty much. Logitech PS2 controller rip-off plus 1-0 on keyboard.

Gama
Apr 3, 2014, 10:39 AM
so my controller is a logitech dual action and its set to mimic the 360 layout but.

made some changes.


[SPOILER-BOX]https://copy.com/xH3uvJnvm34dvK7R[/SPOILER-BOX]


also i can switch subpallettes in a flash now. ;o

Rev+
Apr 3, 2014, 10:40 AM
I have played PSO2 with whatever the default controller setup is on an arcade stick and a USB Saturn pad that I had plugged in xD. And by played I don't really mean played, I mean walked around awkwardly with no camera control and stopped after 1 minute.



I still play Blue Burst that way pretty much. Logitech PS2 controller rip-off plus 1-0 on keyboard.

On PSOBB I used a 360 controller and binded the arrow keys to my right stick. ((faster switching)) Also i used to do the same on force as you do. Keyboard and controller.

Natsu Nem
Apr 3, 2014, 10:55 AM
I hold a 360 pad on top of my keyboard. I use my pinky fingers to hit the F keys which are my weapon palettes.

DJcooltrainer
Apr 3, 2014, 11:27 AM
so my controller is a logitech dual action and its set to mimic the 360 layout but.

made some changes.


[SPOILER-BOX]https://copy.com/xH3uvJnvm34dvK7R[/SPOILER-BOX]


also i can switch subpallettes in a flash now. ;o

That's an interesting layout you've come up with. I've got that exact controller, got it for like $10 to use for emulators several years ago.

The Walrus
Apr 3, 2014, 11:45 AM
I use a PS3 controller for everything not Ranger. Worth noting I haven't played Ranger in almost a year and Force/Techer in about as much time actually...

Rayden
Apr 3, 2014, 12:11 PM
I use controller + keyboard + mouse. I primarily use the controller, but I'll use the number keys on my keyboard for accessing my subpalette, the numpad keys for switching weapon, and I'll switch to my mouse for the rare times I need to manually aim. It works pretty well. I can switch between devices quickly and easily — I can access the keyboard or the mouse without letting go of my controller.

I've tried playing with just keyboard + mouse alone before, and it sucks. The precise movement that a controller offers is too important to give up, as well as the more comfortable layout.

Gardios
Apr 3, 2014, 12:14 PM
Controller. Just feels more natural.

Shadowth117
Apr 3, 2014, 12:15 PM
So, has anyone used an Xbox One controller with PSO2? My old XB360 controller is from one of the earlier production runs that didn't start to break down after 30 days, and has lasted me a good year and a half now, but it's on its way out.

I'm curious if the XBone controllers are any good, are recognized by the game properly, etc.

As far as I'm aware, this is the only method to get Xbone controllers to work with PC atm: http://www.pcgamer.com/2014/03/13/install-an-xbox-one-controller-on-pc-with-this-driver/

It worked relatively well with most stuff once you got it set up, but setting it up, especially without windows 8, means a fair bit of work on your end. There are definitely issues with the way the guy set up the triggers (since the axises are handled differently PSO2 treats them a bit weird) and some buttons didn't seem to consistently work right for me ingame.

It IS cool, I'll give the guy that. But that method is really bothersome for the average user and vjoy makes it annoying to go back to other controllers for pso2 since vjoy's emulated controller becomes the default. Vjoy doesn't delete its emulated controller fully by itself which makes uninstallation a hassle. Bit annoying to need to mess with your registry to get rid of something like that.

When proper drivers come out I'll probably switch to an Xbox One controller just because I like how they feel a bit more and such, but for now I wouldn't recommend it for PSO2.

supersonix9
Apr 3, 2014, 01:19 PM
keyboard and mouse yo

Squall179
Apr 3, 2014, 01:27 PM
Call me old fashioned but back in the day, when Sega's Virtual-On hit arcades...

I was so hooked that I got the Sega Saturn version and twinsticks.

Later on I did the same for the Sega Dreamcast release of VO: Oratorio Tangram, got the DC game and DC Twinsticks.

I still use the DC Twinsticks.

With an adapter.

On the PC.

http://storage.siliconera.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/image-thumb23.png

Its more comfortable to me than anything else. I adjusted inputs with some tweaking of Xpadder.... so that maneuvers are as close to Virtual-On as I can get with this game.

No mere mortal can survive when trying this control scheme, but I am the Squirrel King!

TO hell with your mere Gamepads and Keyboard and Mouse! I am a Cybertrooper and you will never stop us! ARISE, TEMJIN!


but yeah seriously, I dare you to try this and not screw up heh heh heh.... But hey, it works for me, and I don't need any of you telling me I'm crazy because I already know I am!

Sandmind
Apr 3, 2014, 01:37 PM
As long as it work for you, that's all that matter.

Just like how default KB + mouse work for me. But I don't play melee anyways.

DJcooltrainer
Apr 3, 2014, 01:46 PM
Call me old fashioned but back in the day, when Sega's Virtual-On hit arcades...

I was so hooked that I got the Sega Saturn version and twinsticks.

Later on I did the same for the Sega Dreamcast release of VO: Oratorio Tangram, got the DC game and DC Twinsticks.

I still use the DC Twinsticks.

With an adapter.

On the PC.

http://storage.siliconera.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/image-thumb23.png

Its more comfortable to me than anything else. I adjusted inputs with some tweaking of Xpadder.... so that maneuvers are as close to Virtual-On as I can get with this game.

No mere mortal can survive when trying this control scheme, but I am the Squirrel King!

TO hell with your mere Gamepads and Keyboard and Mouse! I am a Cybertrooper and you will never stop us! ARISE, TEMJIN!


but yeah seriously, I dare you to try this and not screw up heh heh heh.... But hey, it works for me, and I don't need any of you telling me I'm crazy because I already know I am!

You should get someone to take a video of you playing with them... it sounds amusing to watch! XD

HIT0SHI
Apr 3, 2014, 01:49 PM
[SPOILER-BOX]Call me old fashioned but back in the day, when Sega's Virtual-On hit arcades...

I was so hooked that I got the Sega Saturn version and twinsticks.

Later on I did the same for the Sega Dreamcast release of VO: Oratorio Tangram, got the DC game and DC Twinsticks.

I still use the DC Twinsticks.

With an adapter.

On the PC.

http://storage.siliconera.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/image-thumb23.png

Its more comfortable to me than anything else. I adjusted inputs with some tweaking of Xpadder.... so that maneuvers are as close to Virtual-On as I can get with this game.

No mere mortal can survive when trying this control scheme, but I am the Squirrel King!

TO hell with your mere Gamepads and Keyboard and Mouse! I am a Cybertrooper and you will never stop us! ARISE, TEMJIN!


but yeah seriously, I dare you to try this and not screw up heh heh heh.... But hey, it works for me, and I don't need any of you telling me I'm crazy because I already know I am![/SPOILER-BOX]

Best controller ever 10/10

Vetur
Apr 3, 2014, 01:56 PM
I alternate between the keyboard/mouse and ps2 controller.

For ranged aiming, keyboard and mouse definitely are the only way for me to effectively move the cross-hair, but with the third-person mode, I find the controller a lot more fun to use.

Sometimes I am just too lazy to set up the controller and use keyboard/mouse, though.

Sanguine2009
Apr 3, 2014, 02:05 PM
game pad for general use but i switch to one handing my controller for movement and using the mouse to aim for tps mode and gun turrets

Arkanoid
Apr 3, 2014, 02:20 PM
Call me old fashioned but back in the day, when Sega's Virtual-On hit arcades...

I was so hooked that I got the Sega Saturn version and twinsticks.

Later on I did the same for the Sega Dreamcast release of VO: Oratorio Tangram, got the DC game and DC Twinsticks.

I still use the DC Twinsticks.

With an adapter.

On the PC.

http://storage.siliconera.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/image-thumb23.png

Its more comfortable to me than anything else. I adjusted inputs with some tweaking of Xpadder.... so that maneuvers are as close to Virtual-On as I can get with this game.

No mere mortal can survive when trying this control scheme, but I am the Squirrel King!

TO hell with your mere Gamepads and Keyboard and Mouse! I am a Cybertrooper and you will never stop us! ARISE, TEMJIN!


but yeah seriously, I dare you to try this and not screw up heh heh heh.... But hey, it works for me, and I don't need any of you telling me I'm crazy because I already know I am!

You are amazing lol. Do you jump by pushing the sticks away from each other?

Z-0
Apr 3, 2014, 02:37 PM
Gamepad for everything.

schnee4
Apr 3, 2014, 02:41 PM
only fat person use gaypad

Skye-Fox713
Apr 3, 2014, 03:03 PM
KB+M for me. I only really use the controler if i need to get a screen shot of my character walking. KB is either 0 or 100 movement, with a controller you have the 0 through 100 movement and can only get the walking animation with that (as far as i know).

Z-0
Apr 3, 2014, 03:05 PM
only fat person use gaypad
It's a shame that like 70% of the top TA'ers use Gamepad, isn't it?

yoshiblue
Apr 3, 2014, 03:23 PM
Controller. KB+M is alright but I much prefer the controllers unless im a ranger.

gigawuts
Apr 3, 2014, 03:43 PM
It's a shame that like 70% of the top TA'ers use Gamepad, isn't it?

Do you mean to say that there is a correlation between being fat and being obsessive about good at video games?

Aine
Apr 3, 2014, 03:46 PM
It's a shame that like 70% of the top TA'ers use Gamepad, isn't it?

yeah i've always wondered about this

what's up with that

tuxdude143
Apr 3, 2014, 03:46 PM
I've found that keyboard and mouse just works best for a game like this. Some games are better suited to gamepads but something like this is definitely better with a keyboard and mouse.

Inazuma
Apr 3, 2014, 04:10 PM
yeah i've always wondered about this

what's up with that

Gamepad is faster since you have all of the buttons right there. Keyboard is all spread out so it's slower and more clumsy. Keyboards are for typing, not for gaming.

If we are talking about really good players, there is a good chance they configured their gamepads to surpass the keyboard.

BIG OLAF
Apr 3, 2014, 04:11 PM
I use a controller because it's more comfortable for me, since I had fallen out of PC gaming for a long time. I only really feel good about KB+M when I'm playing top-down dungeon crawler games and other, similar things.

Z-0
Apr 3, 2014, 04:11 PM
Do you mean to say that there is a correlation between being fat and being obsessive about good at video games?
Didn't you know? I just assumed it was a generic insult for "bad people"


yeah i've always wondered about this

what's up with that
I'm honestly not sure myself. There's a few who use keyboard, such as Qualy, iRonY and Bob, but most I see use controller for some reason. I want to say it's preference though, considering Qualy trumps the competition easily (unless there's someone better I don't know about!).

tuxdude143
Apr 3, 2014, 04:13 PM
Eh, thats debatable. You can remap keys on your keyboard and I find that I can easily swap between things on the fly using a keyboard.

Stormwalker
Apr 3, 2014, 04:19 PM
I used to use controller for every class except RA. With RA, though, the button configuration switching when going in and out of TPS mode, however, drove me nuts, so I had to use keyboard and mouse.

Then I got a Razer Sabertooth, mapped the extra triggers to the face buttons (I call them my "Ranger triggers" but use them anytime I'm in TPS mode regardless of class) and haven't looked back.

The only thing I'm dissatisfied with is I need a better way to switch weapons quickly on controller. Any suggestions?

Edit: The other great thing about the Sabertooth is that the d-pad is amazing. I had to play on a regular 360 pad for a few days after knocking my Sabertooth off a desk and ruining the right shoulder button, and using the 360 d-pad made me want to throw the POS across the room

That's the unfortunate downside of the Sabertooth - very precise, but rather fragile for a game controller, especially at the price.

Inazuma
Apr 3, 2014, 04:40 PM
The only thing I'm dissatisfied with is I need a better way to switch weapons quickly on controller. Any suggestions?

Use JoyToKey to set up toggle buttons to give yourself more space to set buttons. Set the 6 numpad weapon change shortcuts to your controller.

For example, configure RT to act as a toggle, so when held down it will change the function of the other buttons. Pressing X normally can do your primary attack, but if you hold down RT and press X it will change to weapon 1.

Using this basic idea, I fit every fucking possible thing you could imagine to my controller. The only thing I need to use the keyboard for is typing.

Gama
Apr 3, 2014, 05:21 PM
Use JoyToKey to set up toggle buttons to give yourself more space to set buttons. Set the 6 numpad weapon change shortcuts to your controller.

For example, configure RT to act as a toggle, so when held down it will change the function of the other buttons. Pressing X normally can do your primary attack, but if you hold down RT and press X it will change to weapon 1.

Using this basic idea, I fit every fucking possible thing you could imagine to my controller. The only thing I need to use the keyboard for is typing.

yeah its allot better then with kb, altho i use the logitech profiler to do this.

RadiantLegend
Apr 3, 2014, 06:26 PM
Kb + M because I don't have a usb controller and refuse to buy one or an adapter for my 360 and ps3 controllers.

milranduil
Apr 3, 2014, 06:32 PM
I used to controller before I learned how to X-dash. I switched to KB+M for mouse tps'ing. I now stick to controller for easier dashing ._.b

Rev+
Apr 3, 2014, 09:49 PM
Didn't you know? I just assumed it was a generic insult for "bad people"


I'm honestly not sure myself. There's a few who use keyboard, such as Qualy, iRonY and Bob, but most I see use controller for some reason. I want to say it's preference though, considering Qualy trumps the competition easily (unless there's someone better I don't know about!).

For some reason... You know why lmao. ;-)

Angelo
Apr 3, 2014, 10:21 PM
Gamepad is faster since you have all of the buttons right there. Keyboard is all spread out so it's slower and more clumsy. Keyboards are for typing, not for gaming.

If we are talking about really good players, there is a good chance they configured their gamepads to surpass the keyboard.

I've always made the comparison that Controllers and KB+M is a lot like a Guitar and a Piano.

With a piano everything is right there, it's very accessible in that sense. You want to play a certain note? Right there. Want to play a chord? Pretty easy. You have a very, very wide range even if you have to move around octaves to get what you want.

A guitar is great at playing chords in, everything is right there. Sometimes you only have to move one or two fingers a short distance to get the chord you want, and sometimes you have to work a little harder to get the chord or melody you'd get from a piano, but everything is in closer proximity.

They both sound amazing with muscle memory.

That being said I'd never play a shooting/ranged character with a controller. For melee you don't need to worry much about aiming in the vertical plane, but positioning yourself in the horizontal plane is vital. The controller has superior ground movement (joystick 1 vs WASD), but the mouse trumps the controller in aiming (joystick 2 vs mouse). I've been playing a Talis Techter as my alt and placing the cards with TPS mode for some cool tactics is pretty integral, I could never pull it off with a controller. On the flipside, I've trying playing my Hunter with a keyboard and mouse and it's just too much of a hassle to be any fun.

Zipzo
Apr 3, 2014, 10:27 PM
Joy2key is great for macros and button combinations.

Also, PSO2 doesn't recognize the triggers as separate inputs, since it doesn't use the "new" xinput format (new as in since the xbox 360 came out). It uses the old directinput. As a way of promoting upgrading to "new" software, Microsoft put both triggers on one axis. Pressing one is like pushing up on a thumbstick, pressing the other is like pushing down on a thumbstick. Pressing both is like doing nothing at all. Pretty stupid of Sega to still not get with the last generation there.

So a third party program is required to make use of both triggers at once. I use xpadder for that, and joy2key for button combos since j2k doesn't recognize xinput and xpadder glitches out when holding buttons during button combos.

This is false.

I've never downloaded any third party software since PSO2 released in order to support the fact that my triggers have always been considered as separate buttons from the rest of the control, and of course the other trigger.

All in all I think that the this conversation has the potential to be drenched in elitism (IE people who use kb+mouse think they are superior simply because they use kb+mouse)...when either one is fine. Pick whatever is most comfortable to you. Both are valid, and both have equal benefits and cons. Obviously KB + M is the go-to for certain MMORPG's, but this game was literally built to be perfectly compatible with a controller (due to all previous iterations being used on a console with a controller as well). Action games in general are generally suited best to analog control.

The only situation I concede to M+KB is TPS mode, but that's only my point of view because I have never been good at FPS's on consoles compared to PC. There are an insurmountable amount of FPS players out there who are excellent at using a free motion targeting point with an analog stick, despite the fact that using a mouse is obviously more "accurate". It certainly will always be enough for this game. I never even have to use TPS mode in the first place (unless using Zan on a boss, but it requires zero precision) so it's of no concern to me.

Rev+
Apr 3, 2014, 11:02 PM
This is false.

I've never downloaded any third party software since PSO2 released in order to support the fact that my triggers have always been considered as separate buttons from the rest of the control, and of course the other trigger.

All in all I think that the this conversation has the potential to be drenched in elitism (IE people who use kb+mouse think they are superior simply because they use kb+mouse)...when either one is fine. Pick whatever is most comfortable to you. Both are valid, and both have equal benefits and cons. Obviously KB + M is the go-to for certain MMORPG's, but this game was literally built to be perfectly compatible with a controller (due to all previous iterations being used on a console with a controller as well). Action games in general are generally suited best to analog control.

The only situation I concede to M+KB is TPS mode, but that's only my point of view because I have never been good at FPS's on consoles compared to PC. There are an insurmountable amount of FPS players out there who are excellent at using a free motion targeting point with an analog stick, despite the fact that using a mouse is obviously more "accurate". It certainly will always be enough for this game. I never even have to use TPS mode in the first place (unless using Zan on a boss, but it requires zero precision) so it's of no concern to me.

Controller is for people who are too dumb to use autohotkey.
This game has some of the worst default key bindings I've seen in a modern game..

ACoil
Apr 3, 2014, 11:04 PM
I mostly use KB+M since the shortcuts are helpful :x

Horo The Wise Wolf
Apr 3, 2014, 11:07 PM
Corsair Vengence K70 Keyboard and Razer Naga Hex mouse.

Those 1-6 numbad buttons on the side really help.

gigawuts
Apr 3, 2014, 11:13 PM
This is false.

I've never downloaded any third party software since PSO2 released in order to support the fact that my triggers have always been considered as separate buttons from the rest of the control, and of course the other trigger.

All in all I think that the this conversation has the potential to be drenched in elitism (IE people who use kb+mouse think they are superior simply because they use kb+mouse)...when either one is fine. Pick whatever is most comfortable to you. Both are valid, and both have equal benefits and cons. Obviously KB + M is the go-to for certain MMORPG's, but this game was literally built to be perfectly compatible with a controller (due to all previous iterations being used on a console with a controller as well). Action games in general are generally suited best to analog control.

The only situation I concede to M+KB is TPS mode, but that's only my point of view because I have never been good at FPS's on consoles compared to PC. There are an insurmountable amount of FPS players out there who are excellent at using a free motion targeting point with an analog stick, despite the fact that using a mouse is obviously more "accurate". It certainly will always be enough for this game. I never even have to use TPS mode in the first place (unless using Zan on a boss, but it requires zero precision) so it's of no concern to me.

If you're going to try to say something is false you should at least know what you're talking about.

http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/desktop/ee417014(v=vs.85).aspx

PSO2 uses directinput, and as such recognizes the trigger axis as one button when greater than 0, and as another when less than 0. One trigger raises the axis above 0, the other reduces it below 0. What do you know, holding both keeps it at 0. Like I just explained. Or, well, the number isn't actually 0, but that gets the point across.

Go hold both triggers simultaneously. Let me know what they do (They will do nothing).

edit: For supplemental educational material, have this

XPadder recognizes both xinput and directinput, and you can see what's going on with the controller properties window. The trigger is the Z axis on directinput, and separate on xinput.
[SPOILER-BOX]Neither triggers held
http://puu.sh/7VhG5.png

Left trigger held
http://puu.sh/7VhGf.png

Right trigger held
http://puu.sh/7VhGl.png

Both triggers held
http://puu.sh/7VhRj.png[/SPOILER-BOX]

SakoHaruo
Apr 3, 2014, 11:15 PM
yeah i've always wondered about this

what's up with that

KB warriors spend more time on the internet (forums, youtube, etc.) and less time playing actually video games. Pad players usually come from consoles. There was time when you couldn't surf the internet on consoles so the only thing a console gamer could do was play games.

tldr: KB warriors are out of shape 40 year olds and pad players are pre teens with six packs o3o

Zipzo
Apr 3, 2014, 11:23 PM
If you're going to try to say something is false you should at least know what you're talking about.

http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/desktop/ee417014(v=vs.85).aspx

PSO2 uses directinput, and as such recognizes the trigger axis as one button when greater than 0, and as another when less than 0. One trigger raises the axis above 0, the other reduces it below 0. What do you know, holding both keeps it at 0. Like I just explained. Or, well, the number isn't actually 0, but that gets the point across.

Go hold both triggers simultaneously. Let me know what they do (They will do nothing).

edit: For supplemental educational material, have this

XPadder recognizes both xinput and directinput, and you can see what's going on with the controller properties window. The trigger is the Z axis on directinput, and separate on xinput.
[SPOILER-BOX]Neither triggers held
http://puu.sh/7VhG5.png

Left trigger held
http://puu.sh/7VhGf.png

Right trigger held
http://puu.sh/7VhGl.png

Both triggers held
http://puu.sh/7VhRj.png[/SPOILER-BOX]

Okay, all this is good and fine but...

My L trigger has a different function from my R trigger, and the rest of the controller. So does the R trigger. It always has. Since I started playing.

Explain? You're telling me all this programming stuff at the height of the fact that I'm simply telling you, in practice, how it works.

If you're just trying to assert that pushing both down at the same time is an incompatible button press then...well I mean yuh, I don't use a double trigger press for anything.

gigawuts
Apr 3, 2014, 11:25 PM
Okay, all this is good and fine but...

My L trigger has a different function from my R trigger. It always has. Since I started playing.

Explain?

If you're just trying to assert that pushing both down at the same time is an incompatible button press then...well I mean yuh, I don't use a double trigger press for anything.

I just did


PSO2 uses directinput, and as such recognizes the trigger axis as one button when greater than 32767, and as another when less than 32767.

What you do has no bearing on what happens when you do press both triggers, so I'm not sure how that impacts what I'm saying.

edit: Edited in 32767 so you can see the same number on the pretty pictures, which may help you understand

SakoHaruo
Apr 3, 2014, 11:28 PM
People who play on controller are lazy fucks who can't write a script worth shit. :)

Anything you can do on KB I can do better on controller. I can do anything better than you.

yes I can. o3o

Zipzo
Apr 3, 2014, 11:28 PM
I just did



What you do has no bearing on what happens when you do press both triggers, so I'm not sure how that impacts what I'm saying.

Let's break this down in to simpler modes of explanation, because I didn't mean this to be a Giga VS Zipzo thing, those are something I've grown accustomed to trying to avoid.

You said a 3rd party program is required for the game to recognize the L and R triggers as separate buttons. I'm telling you that they have functioned as separate buttons ever since the game released without the use of 3rd party programs. There's obviously a dilemma here that throwing Microsoft functionality and logic at me is not going to fix (and admittedly, I'm not very keen on the inner workings of software and what not).

What you're saying doesn't have any bearing on the very real fact that I've never experienced this..."issue" you speak of.

My guess at it is that even though Microsoft itself recognizes the triggers in such a way, the PSO2 client is "smarter" in that it can? In any case, I'm just telling you how it is...not trying to argue over the semantics of it.

Rev+
Apr 3, 2014, 11:29 PM
Anything you can do on KB I can do better on controller. I can do anything better than you.

yes I can. o3o

Sure, ill just load up xpadder and quickly make a macro. :)

gigawuts
Apr 3, 2014, 11:36 PM
Let's break this down in to simpler modes of explanation.

You said a 3rd party program is required for the game to recognize the L and R triggers as separate buttons.

I'm telling you that they have functioned as separate buttons ever since the game released without the use of 3rd party programs.

There's obviously a dilemma here that throwing Microsoft functionality and logic at me is not going to fix (and admittedly, I'm not very keen on the inner workings of software and what not).

They're the same input axis - the same thing that your thumbsticks use. They're the same input in directinput, just the top half and bottom half are physically separated.

But, to oversimplify things, just like moving forward on your thumbstick moves your character forward, but pulling it backward moves your character backward, the trigger axis is assigned different functions when above or below the neutral position. Above = button 1, below = button 2.

Press neither = nothing
Press trigger 1 = button 1
Press trigger 2 = button 2
Press trigger 1 & trigger 2 = nothing

It'd be like cutting the thumbstick in half and putting those halves on different parts of the controller. Hold the first one to move up, hold the second to move down. If you only hold one at a time everything's fine. If you hold them both you don't move at all.

If you don't ever have to hold both triggers at once this issue doesn't affect you. The issue arises when you have to hold both at once, since the inability to do that is the entire issue.

For someone like me, that has the PA button as the right trigger and the shift action as the left trigger, it makes guard canceling a PA while charging it impossible, it makes using the third PA/tech slot on rods, talises, wands, launchers, and rifles impossible, etc.

SakoHaruo
Apr 3, 2014, 11:40 PM
Sure, ill just load up xpadder and quickly make a macro. :)

I don't use a macro. Do you want proof I can best you without one?

That's right, I'm calling you out. o3o

put 100 million meseta on the line then we can talk.

SakoHaruo
Apr 3, 2014, 11:48 PM
Okay, show me your penta.

Ask and you shall receive.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CjppOM0ANuQ



I guess that means you lose. I want my 100 million by 12:00 pm eastern time, not a second late. o3o

Rev+
Apr 3, 2014, 11:50 PM
Ask and you shall receive.

Penta (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CjppOM0ANuQ)



I guess that means you lose. I want my 100 million by 12:00 pm eastern time, not a second late. o3o

I didnt lose son :) octo or bust.

gigawuts
Apr 3, 2014, 11:51 PM
If it's not one solid unbroken chain of dashing from one side of vader's boss room to the other it doesn't count imo.

Rev+
Apr 3, 2014, 11:53 PM
If it's not one solid unbroken chain of dashing from one side of vader's boss room to the other it doesn't count imo.

Yeah, anyone can penta like that. That kid is dumb as fuck.

gigawuts
Apr 3, 2014, 11:54 PM
Also we need irl footage of your hands on the controller so we can laugh at how ridiculous it looks and use it as evidence against your controller's warranty claim when you break it into several pieces

SakoHaruo
Apr 3, 2014, 11:57 PM
I didnt lose son :) octo or bust.

But you said Penta, now you switching to Octo? Is that 6 step, because I could do 6 dashes way before I even knew Penta/5 step was possible.

btw you better have my money.



If it's not one solid unbroken chain of dashing from one side of vader's boss room to the other it doesn't count imo.

Giga, you wants in on this, too? How much bank you got right now?


btw that video was from day 1 of me trying to learn penta. I didn't upload that just now.

gigawuts
Apr 3, 2014, 11:57 PM
Oh I don't dash, I shave my neckbeard once every 6 months so I'm not allowed.

SakoHaruo
Apr 4, 2014, 12:05 AM
Also we need irl footage of your hands on the controller so we can laugh at how ridiculous it looks and use it as evidence against your controller's warranty claim when you break it into several pieces


hehehe I have the video you're looking for.

[spoiler-box]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R3TKdjdeGdg[/spoiler-box]

If youtube isn't your style and you want lots of wwwwwwwwwwwwwww, switch the nico coments to JP

http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm2376321

Kondibon
Apr 4, 2014, 12:15 AM
What's dashing? Just use cruise control auto run.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XJSkrF8nhxg

Aine
Apr 4, 2014, 12:49 AM
reminds me of this rare footage of daigo showing us plebeians how to shinku hadouken


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a-x5i5Zkn_k"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a-x5i5Zkn_k

Chdata
Apr 4, 2014, 12:56 AM
I use KB/M.

It's impossible to do as many things as I can with KB/M with any controller.

It's kind of ironic, controllers that were made specifically for gaming, are completely outdone by keyboard+mouse.

Especially if I had a razer naga and working input scripts .-.


Keyboard is all spread out

The only thing that's "out of the way" is all the numpad stuff if you use numpad for subpalette.

And razer naga kinda fixes that completely.

It's only a matter of personal preference. More people are likely to have controllers than specialized gaming mouses anyway.

Stormwalker
Apr 4, 2014, 02:05 AM
And yet a keyboard will never give you analog movement control. I have a gaming keyboard and mouse (Corsair Vengeance K95 mechanical keyboard, Logitech G700 mouse). I prefer the controller because keyboard movement in lock-on mode feels incredibly awkward to me.

Neither system is perfect. It's really just a matter of deciding what you're comfortable with, and then deciding how much trouble you're willing to go to in order to squeeze the most functionality out of that method that you can.

HeartBreak301
Apr 4, 2014, 04:48 AM
Keyboard and mouse, the game was designed with it in mind and it's a superior control scheme for this game. That said I do keep a controller on my desk for walking in the lobby (because holding shift while moving to walk isn't a simple enough concept for Sega to grasp) and rotating my camera when I'm dead.

Horo The Wise Wolf
Apr 4, 2014, 05:56 AM
The Naga Hex is the way to go honestly. It works so well with all of my games. If you are really good the regular Naga can go a long way too with the 12 side buttons.

DJcooltrainer
Apr 4, 2014, 07:01 AM
Logitech G400 all the way. It would still by an MX518 if I would have been able to find one at a better price when mine broke, but I'm happy with it now. It's just so comfortable, and so accurate. I just need to invest in a better keyboard, I'm using some Dell OEM pos keyboard I snagged from work.

Also, last night I played a little with my Xbox 360 conroller with Joy2Key, and while I didn't really like it as much as KB+M, it did allow me to play for awhile without my back hurting too much. Good news for me is that the yoga I started doing is paying off, because I woke up this morning and was able to get out of bed without being in incredible pain. :D Hopefully I won't have to put up with it for too much longer.

Chik'Tikka
Apr 5, 2014, 10:04 PM
360 pad+^_^+ 2 reasons;

a: i can lean back, put mah feets up, and relax+^_^+

b: 2 decades of pad use isn't that easy to squash when PSO2 is one of my 1st PC based games+^_^+

AkumaYouji
Apr 6, 2014, 07:31 PM
KB and Mouse because I like the precision of a mouse and I use the manual aim when using my Bow which I find more accurate with a mouse than a controller.

Invader J
Apr 6, 2014, 10:36 PM
Good controller support is the only reason I even started playing PSO2, and is why I never play any other MMOs. More MMOs need PSO2's level of controller support. It was innovative back in the PSO1 days and still qualifies as innovative now.

If your gameplay mechanics lend themselves to controller play, then support controllers. I'm looking at you, Wildstar…

Stickboy
Apr 6, 2014, 11:44 PM
gamepad, 'cuz my mouse keeps breaking

Squall179
Apr 7, 2014, 06:58 PM
You are amazing lol. Do you jump by pushing the sticks away from each other?

I DO!

Both sticks pushed together? its just like Virtual-On as well, BLOCK activates hehe.

The keyboard actually is used for ah..... some... functions (Hotbar number keys, then the Directional keys change weapons/subpallete)

TheMagickHat77
Apr 8, 2014, 12:43 PM
Been using a controller since Open beta, but I decided to go KB+M for the first time last night on a Tundra SHAQ. Did a lot better than I thought I would, I just have to get used to using the keyboard.

Having a Naga mouse with 12 buttons on the side is really helpful.

Ail
Apr 8, 2014, 03:06 PM
xbox360 wired controller. default setup + keyboard for hotkeys 1-0, numpad for weapon change and others (most used is "N" for the map) i put the controller down on the fly and use keyboard+mouse when i need to aim more precisely. for exemple when i switch from katana to bullet bow.

Bloothehegdehog
Apr 8, 2014, 05:10 PM
Key board, too lazy to use gamepad + I don't wanna use the gamepad.

JanosA
Jun 12, 2014, 04:00 PM
Corsair Vengence K70 Keyboard and Razer Naga Hex mouse.

Those 1-6 numbad buttons on the side really help.


Thank you for this post. I read it and bought the hex mouse absolutely love it. Now I'm just waiting to get that KB also.

thank you!

Lumpen Thingy
Jun 12, 2014, 11:37 PM
controller since I played PSO and PSU for thousands of hours with one why switch it up now if I'm so use to it.

Lumpen Thingy
Jun 12, 2014, 11:39 PM
Thank you for this post. I read it and bought the hex mouse absolutely love it. Now I'm just waiting to get that KB also.

thank you!

I have both as well and you will be VERY happy when you get it. I don't play pso2 with them but on my other games I just can't live without both the awesome KB and mouse x)

wefwq
Jun 12, 2014, 11:51 PM
I been playing this game since beta with KB+Mouse, i can't get used with controller.
But i'm still plug controller when i'm playing on the bed.

KatherineAlexandra
Jun 13, 2014, 12:35 AM
I use a controller, but I'll use my keyboard to bring up uncommon selections from my subpalette (moons, etc). Scrolling through it with the d-pad can take a bit too long.

Twinblaze
Jun 13, 2014, 02:04 AM
I use a controller. I'll probably switch to keyboard and mouse when I decide to finally play Ranger, though, since I kind of want to just turn aiming mode on and play the whole thing as a third-person shooter.

Achelousaurus
Jun 13, 2014, 06:40 AM
Console game master race here.
I know many of my problems come from that cause controller makes things hard to do (like targeting) but I just don't like keyboard + mouse for anything other than strategy.
The one thing I do with mouse only is turrets. No point in doing them with a controller.

the_importer_
Jun 13, 2014, 08:47 AM
XBOX 360 Wireless Controller.

PSO was a game made for a game console with a controller and considering the nice options for gamepad settings in there, I'm pretty sure that this was also behind the developers mind when making PSO2. That being said Keyboard is practical for chatting and entering your passwords :P

Genovesi
Jun 13, 2014, 10:27 AM
Still using a 360 controller, but I can't get XPadder to bloody work so I can quad dash.