Crazy combo video playing in Lobby presently

[Windigorider]

Anywhere that I could find a link to it? Would like to show a few non-believers that say PSO2 is lame and has no flashy combo system like DMC3 or Bayonetta. Could get a few more interested into the series knowing there's an "easy to play but tough to master" art to battle.

[The Walrus]

They actually misrepresent the game like that in the lobby vids?

[Freshellent]

Before I go farther I'll just say I don't have the link handy.

So, while it is definitely possible to do some 'advanced' combos with the combat system we are provided, it's difficult to use as a selling point for this game because the player base is largely dedicated to destroying everything in the most efficient way possible. Usually meaning full pallets of the same PA so they can just use it over and over again.

I wish you good luck, it's out there and if they want to just play the game for the interest of finding new and fun tech. Then yeah, bring them on in, otherwise it's going to be met with a ton of negativity and most things will die in group play before they have a chance.

Still, I've wanted to do that for a while. After the rebalances I may take some time aside and do it anyway with some closer friends.

[Inazuma]

http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm22878592

Here it is

[The Walrus]

http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm22878592

Here it is

The frames...they are so fluid ;_;

[Enforcer MKV]

They actually misrepresent the game like that in the lobby vids?

To be completely honest those videos look a lot more interesting than what people like to actually do. It's totally possible to play the game like that...

...people just choose not to.

[The Walrus]

Oh I agree it makes it look more interesting. It's just yeah no one plays that way cause efficiency and all that jazz

[Enforcer MKV]

Oh I agree it makes it look more interesting. It's just yeah no one plays that way cause efficiency and all that jazz

smh, part of the reason I solo so much...

[Freshellent]

To be completely honest those videos look a lot more interesting than what people like to actually do. It's totally possible to play the game like that...

...people just choose not to.

It's kind of a mix really. The enemies provided in their current spawns are not friendly to that sort of play. It would take a lot of practice to get the reactions down. A lot of what you see in the vids is possible because they have the space and time for it. It's part of why it's just a Combo MV.

That being said, creative play isn't exactly rewarded in the game anyway. Enemies can one shot us, there's funky hit boxes with lag, all sort of excuses that everyone is aware of. I'm not a fan of Deadly Archer spam as much as the next guy, but there's a reason why it's how people tend to play. It gets the job done and it's the straightest path to good TA times and the most loot. (I laughed at the last part too)

There are games that do reward creative play, this just isn't one of them. It's just different as all. But if you have the free time, it's quite entertaining and can be a lot of fun.

Also, more games are starting to look like this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PK6B1OcOsKs

[Windigorider]

Thank you very much for that Inazuma!

[Takatsuki]

What sort of wizardry is this!? Since when are the animation frames in this game that fluid!?

[MimiChan]

Image PSO2 will have a pvp and dealing damage is more about combo, precision, and timing.

Just like in the video. PSO2 PVP!!!!!!!!!

[Zorafim]

Also, more games are starting to look like this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PK6B1OcOsKs

...why am I still playing this game?

[Freshellent]

I'm guessing a lot of people don't run the game at 60fps.

Levia, don't get your hopes up yet. There's some uh, issues with the game. We'll see though.

[The Walrus]

No I do run it at 60. It still looks more fluid compared to mine...

[Freshellent]

Something about nicovideo uploads them different than the youtubes, then.

[Zyrusticae]

They could easily get players to play like that video by

A. Balancing the PAs,
B. Excising the PP system entirely,
C. Adding a combo counter that rewards you for stylish play, DMC-style, and
D. Removing most of the damage multipliers from the skill trees

But nope, none of that, hence single-PA spam all day erryday.

What a shame.

Edit: The video looks smoother than normal play because you're not viewing it fullscreen. No, really, I'm serious. Stick the game in a tiny window and it'll look that smooth.

The reason is because the relative distance of each movement is smaller when the view is so zoomed out. To get the same smooth movement at fullscreen you need more frames because each movement covers a greater distance in pixels.

[Natsu Nem]

I was pretty hyped seeing that combo video. It reminded me of Desk and Maj combo videos from fighting games. It's pretty disheartening though, knowing the depth of the combos possible only to go back to shunka shunka/FOTM pa spam.

[Dark Matter]

[SPOILER-BOX]
Edit: Sorry, I didn't read that fully but I will leave these urls for reference.
1 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XGk7OuNKsAA)
2 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pOBd-r_kSS0)
3 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T1LQh9-yKUo)
[/SPOILER-BOX]
http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm21691398

Final one I could find.




Also, more games are starting to look like this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PK6B1OcOsKs

Well for a while now allot of games have done this. Ironically they are called tas or combo movies many times they're made purely for entertainment value and used to accomplishment a task. usually we'd see games like Devil may cry (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SIrcgV86zFA) do such things, but now people are getting into games that people wouldn't even status as crazy (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l4zh9lHYNFI). Note: In many cases there are players that will abuse (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mC47O6mKHJY) certain aspects of the game to accomplish the task (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JP3DKQS9NsI) and some will even hack (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E5e_pl7OqQQ)just for lols, but this those are commonly seen.

[MetalDude]

Nicovideo allows 60FPS while Youtube does not (for some reason, probably space constraints).

And combat's too unfocused and messy in PSO2 to allow a real, intimate one-on-one kind of combo system like that. The way mechanics work in this game rewards players for clustering enemies as quickly as possible and stunlocking them to death.

[Yden]

Something about nicovideo uploads them different than the youtubes, then.

That's cause youtube only supports 30fps videos while nico allows 60fps videos.


Nicovideo allows 60FPS while Youtube does not (for some reason, probably space constraints).

Space constraints have nothing to do with it since youtube is starting support for 4k videos. There's really no real reason that they haven't enabled support for 60fps videos yet.

[Grady219]

Something about nicovideo uploads them different than the youtubes, then.

Youtube runs at 30 fps. Nico probably runs at a solid 60

[MetalDude]

Space constraints have nothing to do with it since youtube is starting support for 4k videos. There's really no real reason that they haven't enabled support for 60fps videos yet.
For trying to be so ahead of things, Google's taking their sweetass time picking up on doing this already.

[Freshellent]

I should have mentioned 'mmo' style games. This sort of gameplay has been around forever, started as a bug and then became a thing which I fully accept and love. A lot of it we won't see because it was from vhs recording days.

To think I used to wait 3 hours for a 3 minute match video from japan...

[Zyrusticae]

To be fair, you can do 60 FPS on Youtube by rendering a 60 FPS video at half-speed 30 FPS and then using the player to play the video at double speed.

But yeah, that just makes it even more baffling that they don't have official support yet.

[Yden]

Come to think of it, the main reason PSO2 doesn't have combos is because of a lack of skill cooldowns. Since you can use any PA at anytime you want, as long as you have PP of course, there will always be a skill that the most efficient to use over and over. Brawler MMOs usually put a cooldown on skills so you can't constantly use your most powerful ability over and over making the player find other ways to raise their damage output with other skills.

[infiniteeverlasting]

I've been following this guy on YouTube. And I could say IMO, this guy achieves both creative play and efficiency with twin dags. He has a better vid showing his really interesting ps combinations but I think he took that one down.
PSO2 Twin Daggers Fighter VS Quartz Dragon SH - No damage - YouTube (http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=92GnRg9W6J4)

[Zyrusticae]

Come to think of it, the main reason PSO2 doesn't have combos is because of a lack of skill cooldowns. Since you can use any PA at anytime you want, as long as you have PP of course, there will always be a skill that the most efficient to use over and over. Brawler MMOs usually put a cooldown on skills so you can't constantly use your most powerful ability over and over making the player find other ways to raise their damage output with other skills.
That is SO NOT a solution.

Devil May Cry, Bayonetta, Metal Gear Rising - none of these games have this problem, and it has nothing at all to do with skill cooldowns.

Why not try looking at what these games do right and building off of that instead of blindly barreling forward?

[UnLucky]

But you do end up using the best attack repeatedly in those games. Just that it takes multiple button presses to do the full sequence and you can't skip to the end.

God Hand did it pretty well using a similar system of slotting specific moves in a linearly connected combo.

You'd have your guard breaks, the sweeping hits, a precision blow, and your heavy hitting finishers with knockback.

You can't just put in a bunch of the strongest moves in a row since you'd push everything away from followup hits without killing them. Plus they could block the attack, or if you miss you're stuck there in a long animation.

Sure some attacks were clearly better than others, but that was for progression in a single player game.


You can even see how Sega intended players to use the PA system looking at things like weapon gears and natural JA and combo multipliers (except the third PA on your bar doesn't get the same boost normal attacks do). Each encounter is supposed to last long enough where building a combo is supposed to be effective by slowly ramping up damage until the last hit.

But the game just doesn't work like that at all. There's little reason to do anything but pure damage since stuns, launches, knockdowns and knockbacks aren't necessary for any standard enemy. If a single PA doesn't oneshot the target, it's either worthless compared to something else that does, or you just use it again since it's also the fastest two-step combo. And it's not like a tough enemy that blocks your attacks is anything but a damage sponge.

[Kondibon]

But you do end up using the best attack repeatedly in those games. Just that it takes multiple button presses to do the full sequence and you can't skip to the end.This is very true. The main inscentive for doing actual combos was that it increased your score, and (until DmC at least) repeatedly using the same move gave you deminishing returns, encouraging you to mix it up.

On the other hand DMC didn't have stupid lag while switching weapons, so that was a valid mid combo.

Also, if elsword taught me anything (http://youtu.be/ZOlmJODQEg0), simply having a combo system won't encourage using actual combos.

EDIT: That said, I don't think they HAVE to. If people want to play like that go ahead. I do simple combos all the time. It's part of the reason I hate SRA, it actually disincentives them.

[The Walrus]

Good ol Elsword. I wish it was more interesting to play for longer periods of time :/

Hell that's my problem with PSO2 at this point too...

I really don't get why Sega doesn't do something to make combos more rewarding and encourage chaining different PA's...oh right cause they're idiots...

[Kondibon]

Good ol Elsword. I wish it was more interesting to play for longer periods of time :/

Hell that's my problem with PSO2 at this point too...

I really don't get why Sega doesn't do something to make combos more rewarding and encourage chaining different PA's...oh right cause they're idiots...There honestly isn't much you CAN do for a game like this. The combo=score thing works in DMC because it's targeted specifically at the audience who enjoys that stuff, while PSO2 is a far more casual game for general gameplay, on top of being multiplayer, which just plain makes combos hard to pull off. If anything was barred behind a combo score then most people probably wouldn't even bother with it.

People do it for fun, and if you're in a situation you can do it at all, it's not like there's anyone to stop you.

[UnLucky]

This is very true. The main inscentive for doing actual combos was that it increased your score, and (until DmC at least) repeatedly using the same move gave you deminishing returns, encouraging you to mix it up.

http://img1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20121002173829/devilmaycry/images/6/64/SSSensational.gif

Love that one.

But even in the good DMCs I'd pretty much just use normal sword attacks and Stinger, or switch to the whatsitcalled and use the good crowd control move until it became stale, and shoot bullets to preserve combo.

Stuff like Bloody Palace felt even more constrained to me in what was useful. The only real change was activating Devil Trigger.

But it worked since weapons were really different and normal attacks were good. Plus launches and grabs were useful defensively.

[Kondibon]

But it worked since weapons were really different and normal attacks were good. Plus launches and grabs were useful defensively.I think this is what PSO2 really needs. Just... more stuff to be useful. Like you said, not everyone is gonna be doing mad crazy combos, and I certainly don't want that to be a required part of the game. People are gonna do it for fun anyway, just like people speed run TAs for fun, and as I said before, it's almost impossible in a party, and the LAST thing you wanna be doing in TD.

EDIT: Also, I wish fighting Hunar felt like this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-qGbW-N3--w

[Angelo]

Maybe they should add 'balance' by giving a bonus to using different combination of PAs. Or have diminishing returns for overusing the same one?

[Alukard]

Comparing dmc and pso2 is like comparing apples and oranges.

While dmc requires obviously more skill than pso2 ( jump cancel, lucifer cancel, sky rave, reverse rave, sky running etc. vs penta(latency)/quad dash), pso2 is certainly the better choice if you want to be measured objectively in competiton. The combat system of pso2 is by far not profound enough to compete with games like dmc/ng/bayonetta. Most people don't expect an mmorpg to offer such a combat system at all, anyway.

PSO skill is measured via TA. The best times make you the best player.

Dmc has unofficial style tournaments, where people decide subjectively what they liked most. I remember that one guy kyle being a dick to others and dickriding his own skills. People started saying he wouldn't be "THAT" good, when he clearly was top rank, if not maybe even the best.

Edit: @ Lucky, there was a patch that fixed the broken rating system in the newest dmc. I still prefer dmc3 and 4 over any other so far.

[Rien]

I think combos are a good part of the reason pso2 devs want to generalize photon art DPS.

[Angelo]

I think combos are a good part of the reason pso2 devs want to generalize photon art DPS.

I still use Stun Concido to Cruel Throw because it makes my character look gar as fuck. I think incentive for using PA combos would actually be great.

[NexusAZ]

http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm21691398




Here's one with a bit more to it.

http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm22747396

[gigawuts]

Bandaid solution:

Make Fury Combo Up only work if your next attack is different from your last attack (normal attacks always qualify, since no swings in a combo are the same - but deadly archer is still deadly archer).

So you could do step attack -> normal and get the bonus on the normal attack. You could do step attack -> deadly archer and get the bonus on deadly archer. You could do normal -> deadly archer and get the bonus on deadly archer. You could do deadly archer -> normal and get the bonus on and the normal. step attack -> DA -> normal -> DA -> normal would get the bonus on all listed DAs and normals.

Then make it a 5 SP skill, because that's not worth 10 SP.

edit: Also, remove the JA restriction. That's a nice skill for techer btw, since that class relies on normals. The removal of the JA requirement would let it work on wand gear, too.

[ShinMaruku]

To be completely honest those videos look a lot more interesting than what people like to actually do. It's totally possible to play the game like that...

...people just choose not to.

2 things,1. people love to do the least possible to do the most so you should not be surprised blame our ancestors starting off as cowards. 2. there is absolutly now reward system in the game as stated before. If they gave bonuses and rewards (Such as higher damage or higher pp generation ect) THEN people would try to get there, but as the game is now, nope, hell no.

I'm not surprised people can do that but until the systems are in, won't happen.

[Macmaxi]

I will definitely pester my friends with flashy melee combos, like knocking mobs up so they can't hit their shunka and make them suffer with it dealing only 50 dmg as well. It takes a certain kind of dedication to find enjoyment in that though...

[Keyblade59]

I wonder if the people of B-20 made a video and sent it in of them chatting away in the lobby to show the "PSO2 experience"