April 23rd Update Discussion (Includes Lvl70 Cap)

[Zipzo]

Apr 23rd Update
------------------
+ Level cap 70 ( No level cap CO ).
+ New Class skill for all classes.
+ New PAs for : Partisan, Katana, Bullet bow
and Technique
+ [Switch Mag's camo] function
+ 7-9★ weapons and units can be fed to Mag.
+ Craft level 40.
+ New Craft Recipes.
+ New System: Daily Craft
+ New Craft-RoomGoods
+ New Story quest.
+ New Field: Mothership
+ New Boss: Falz Angel
+ New AQs
+ New 11★ weapons Drop
+ Add 10 stages for EQ [ Ruin & Seabed ]
+ New 11★ weapons for Pyroxene shop
+ Easter Lobby
+ New LQ
+ New Enemy: Mr.Bowan
+ New Scratch: Logical Laboratory

(thanks to PQ Thuy for the round-up)

So yeah...leveling.

[Lostbob117]

More Skillpoints. Also, I can rework my skilltree, and Hunter buff!!

[Mysterious-G]

I am quite indifferent to the level cap raise myself. It's not like the majority of the content is challenging enough to warrant it in the first place.
I am looking forward to the new story quest, and bow PA quite a bit though. As a Br/Ra (or Ra/Br once the new Ra skill hits), the PA looks incredibly appealing as a mob sweeper, something the bow severely struggles with. (It sucks ass for mobbing.)

[HIT0SHI]

Does that mean if we have changed Mag "Camos" before, can we change back or is it an item like Weapon Camos?

[Kondibon]

I am quite indifferent to the level cap raise myself. It's not like the majority of the content is challenging enough to warrant it in the first place.
You make it sound like they aren't ever going to add new content. This actually reminds me of when they increased the level cap back when high risk AQs where the only way to get content your level. I hope we get a new difficulty and area soon though.

[Mysterious-G]

You make it sound like they aren't ever going to add new content. This actually reminds me of when they increased the level cap back when high risk AQs where the only way to get content your level. I hope we get a new difficulty and area soon though.

In my opinion, the level cap should be raised as new, more difficult content is introduced, not months beforehand. That way new content starts out somewhat difficult, and gets easier as you progress to level up, achieving a sense of satisfa- Ahh, why do I even bother.

[gigawuts]

So, do we know the new exp cap?

[Enforcer MKV]

Time to start saving up for that Sange...

[RadiantLegend]

I hope I have enough friends to spam xq for 2x bio katana's. Otherwise....I'd be broke buying 11* element grinding.

[Lostbob117]

So, do we know the new exp cap?

Agrajag(or maybe it was Raujinn? Pretty sure it was Agrajag) said that 65-70 is 8.3m exp. Last he checked at least.

[Friyn]

Can't say I'm excited. I'm still looking for proper Fighter buffs/changes.

[gigawuts]

I hope I have enough friends to spam xq for 2x bio katana's. Otherwise....I'd be broke buying 11* element grinding.

Gimme a whisper, I'd like to spam them as well.

Can't say I'm excited. I'm still looking for proper Fighter buffs/changes.

I suspect Fighter will be coming up shortly after force, since fighter can still use hunter as a crutch.

When they nerf hunter is when fighter will really need a tweaking, though.

Ideally, fi/br should be just as viable as fi/hu. That might mean fighter weapons with, like, 30-40% average stance latents. If hunter is nerfed to ~60% or even ~50% damage on its tree though, braver weapons wouldn't need any tweaks at all to work with fighter stances instead of fury stance.

(Also they'd have to make fighter stances passive already, jesus)

((I secretly hold out an irrational hope that Sega sees my posts))

[DJcooltrainer]

Gimme a whisper, I'd like to spam them as well.


I suspect Fighter will be coming up shortly after force, since fighter can still use hunter as a crutch.

When they nerf hunter is when fighter will really need a tweaking, though.

Ideally, fi/br should be just as viable as fi/hu. That might mean fighter weapons with, like, 30-40% average stance latents. If hunter is nerfed to ~60% or even ~50% damage on its tree though, braver weapons wouldn't need any tweaks at all to work with fighter stances instead of fury stance.

(Also they'd have to make fighter stances passive already, jesus)

((I secretly hold out an irrational hope that Sega sees my posts))

You think they'll nerf hunter that much? I mean, right now, it's awesome as a subclass, it really makes Br/Gu/Fi shine. But as a main class... I think it kind of sucks. I could maybe see a nerf to fury stance, but they'd almost have to offer something else as an option for using Hu as a main class. It's already slow enough imo.

[gigawuts]

You think they'll nerf hunter that much? I mean, right now, it's awesome as a subclass, it really makes Br/Gu/Fi shine. But as a main class... I think it kind of sucks. I could maybe see a nerf to fury stance, but they'd almost have to offer something else as an option for using Hu as a main class. It's already slow enough imo.

That's exactly right.

Fury Stance is too much. It's just too strong, and it costs too much SP. It's too good for everything but Hunter. For Hunter? It blocks out anything else anyone would want to get. For a long time you couldn't even get a single gear if you wanted to max out Fury Stance - the Fury Stance tree cost 70 SP, and that's exactly what we had to spend.

No other class has to deal with that. Hunter's weapons have been balanced around having maxed a Fury Stance tree, so if you pass it up your damage suffers noticeably. It's not just Hunter weapons though, Fighter weapons were balanced around it too since every damage-oriented Fighter subs Hunter.

Fix: Boost damage of all Hunter & Fighter weapons by maybe 30%, then remove a few skills from the Fury Stance tree. Removing Fury Stance Up 2 and either Fury Combo Up or both JA Bonuses would be great (Depending on if you want multipliers with Fury Stance disabled, or if you want a multiplier that works for techs). This frees up 20-30 SP, and that's all Hunter needs to get a support skill, JG/JC, Step/JR, and each gear.

[serenade]

Good stuff. Still waiting on my Tornado Dance buff.

[DJcooltrainer]

That's exactly right.

Fury Stance is too much. It's just too strong, and it costs too much SP. It's too good for everything but Hunter. For Hunter? It blocks out anything else anyone would want to get. For a long time you couldn't even get a single gear if you wanted to max out Fury Stance - the Fury Stance tree cost 70 SP, and that's exactly what we had to spend.

No other class has to deal with that. Hunter's weapons have been balanced around having maxed a Fury Stance tree, so if you pass it up your damage suffers noticeably. It's not just Hunter weapons though, Fighter weapons were balanced around it too since every damage-oriented Fighter subs Hunter.

Fix: Boost damage of all Hunter & Fighter weapons by maybe 30%, then remove a few skills from the Fury Stance tree. Removing Fury Stance Up 2 and either Fury Combo Up or both JA Bonuses would be great (Depending on if you want multipliers with Fury Stance disabled, or if you want a multiplier that works for techs). This frees up 20-30 SP, and that's all Hunter needs to get a support skill, JG/JC, Step/JR, and each gear.

If they did it that way, I would be quite happy. Hunter has some really awesome defensive abilities, but a lot of people shy away from them since they'll have to sacrifice some of the fury stance skills (because lol DPS). They should also move the gear skills so it's not so damn awkward to get all of them, haha.

I'm currently at 62 on my Hunter tree, and I currently pretty much just log in to do whatever EQ's I can and maybe do some AQ runs with my team if they're up to it. It's almost painful to play as when you're coming from any other class.

[Rien]

Killing fury skills will in no way make up for a 30% increase in hunter/fighter damage. Ever.

They'd just become weaker and force will become master class again.

It needs to be in the 70% to maybe as far as 100% increase.

[gigawuts]

Killing fury skills will in no way make up for a 30% increase in hunter/fighter damage. Ever.

They'd just become weaker and force will become master class again.

It needs to be in the 70% to maybe as far as 100% increase.

Let's see what Fury Stance Up 2, Fury Combo Up, and both JA Bonuses are

FSU2: 10%
FCU: 20%
JAB: 10% each

Removing FSU2 & FCU: 1.1*1.2=1.32
Removing FSU2 & JAB1&2: 1.1*1.1*1.1=1.331

Hmm.

Yes, you're right, a 30% boost to base attack modifiers would in fact not make up for that loss of damage. I guess it would have to be 33.1%.

[Zipzo]

Good stuff. Still waiting on my Tornado Dance buff.

They are buffing lvl 16 Tornado Dance, lvl 16 Over End, and lvl 16 Slide End in this patch, dunno if you knew that or not.

[Xaeris]

The crafting system hasn't gotten much of my interest so far, but maybe some of these new recipes will do the trick. I'm not holding my breath though.

[Rien]

Let's see what Fury Stance Up 2, Fury Combo Up, and both JA Bonuses are

FSU2: 10%
FCU: 20%
JAB: 10% each

Removing FSU2 & FCU: 1.1*1.2=1.32
Removing FSU2 & JAB1&2: 1.1*1.1*1.1=1.331

Hmm.

Yes, you're right, a 30% boost to base attack modifiers would in fact not make up for that loss of damage. I guess it would have to be 33.1%.

And don't forget melee in itself still needs a buff to keep up, excluding Shunka (which is getting a nerf).

[DJcooltrainer]

Let's see what Fury Stance Up 2, Fury Combo Up, and both JA Bonuses are

FSU2: 10%
FCU: 20%
JAB: 10% each

Removing FSU2 & FCU: 1.1*1.2=1.32
Removing FSU2 & JAB1&2: 1.1*1.1*1.1=1.331

Hmm.

Yes, you're right, a 30% boost to base attack modifiers would in fact not make up for that loss of damage. I guess it would have to be 33.1%.

I think the point he was making is that you'd make Gu/Br/Fi classes weaker, keep Hu pretty much where it's at now, and Force would be unaffected for the most part, which might tweak the balance a little much.

Balancing an RPG is like some kind of crazy tightrope act.

[gigawuts]

I don't mean to highjack a thread here, but come on guys


Fix: Boost damage of all Hunter & Fighter weapons by maybe 30%, then remove a few skills from the Fury Stance tree. Removing Fury Stance Up 2 and either Fury Combo Up or both JA Bonuses would be great (Depending on if you want multipliers with Fury Stance disabled, or if you want a multiplier that works for techs). This frees up 20-30 SP, and that's all Hunter needs to get a support skill, JG/JC, Step/JR, and each gear.

Hunter and fighter. While "boost weapons" might suggest boosting weapon atk, no, that is not what I meant. I meant to boost all attacks, as I've said numerous times in numerous threads. The plan is the same in each one.

I know how video games work. This isn't my first one.

PSOW: Tiny miniscule detail nitpickers and entire idea disregarders anonymous

[UnLucky]

I think the point he was making is that you'd make Gu/Br/Fi classes weaker, keep Hu pretty much where it's at now, and Force would be unaffected for the most part, which might tweak the balance a little much.

Balancing an RPG is like some kind of crazy tightrope act.
Uh, yeah, that was the intent.

All of Hu/Fi/Ra/Gu/Br would be more balanced between each other that way.

Is that bad?

[DJcooltrainer]

Uh, yeah, that was the intent.

All of Hu/Fi/Ra/Gu/Br would be more balanced between each other that way.

Is that bad?

As long as the balance with Fo/Te still make sense, yeah that's great. It sounded to me like he was saying that Fo would be OP if those changes were made. I don't know enough about their damages to really agree or disagree with that idea, I was just pointing it out. Sorry if I misunderstood. ^^;

[UnLucky]

Well it's still a valid point. Force has been trying to compete with inferior subclass options like Fighter or Braver. Its own tree alone was incredibly powerful, but it couldn't exactly sub itself, much like a Hunter main.

If you nerf Fury Stance (and adjust Hunter itself to compensate) then every other class is in the exact same boat. Suddenly a Hunter sub is comparable to a Fighter or Braver sub, or Ranger or Gunner where applicable.

Anything that used to require Fury Stance to compete now has other viable options just like Force did before. Except now Force has way too many stackable bonuses in its own tree. Ranger too, but so much is conditional that it sort of balances out.

Honestly Techer should have gotten Talis Tech and Element Conversion, but neither should be main class only.

[gigawuts]

Yeah, techer already leaned towards using the talis as its teching weapon.

But now we're veering into a whole different discussion, about classes having pre-decided roles and that new skills should help point the classes in the direction of those roles.

They're kind of just throwing everything at the dart board and hoping things stick.

[UnLucky]

But could you imagine if subbing Techer gave you 50% more damage with a rainbow palette of weapons? Like Hu/Te being a real thing.

And Fo/Te being a competent caster.

[Atmius]

So, do we know the new exp cap?

It was shown in the video shortly after ナギサ got a level up. new exp cap is roughly 29,945,000.

[Pneuma]

Why would they buff up Overend when my cousin at level 35 can hit 2k-11k damage with each hit?

[Kondibon]

Why would they buff up Overend when my cousin at level 35 can hit 2k-11k damage with each hit?
Because it's slow as crap. By the time you get to the second swing, everything is dead.

At least that's what people say, I still think it's good for stunned bosses. A damage buff definately isn't what it needed though. >_>

[Mattykins]

They oughta just make Hunar's Overend official. :V

[Zipzo]

Why would they buff up Overend when my cousin at level 35 can hit 2k-11k damage with each hit?

It's only the lvl 16 version.

Your cousin isn't getting lvl 16 disks at level 35.

[Coreven]

Because it's slow as crap. By the time you get to the second swing, everything is dead.

At least that's what people say, I still think it's good for stunned bosses. A damage buff definately isn't what it needed though. >_>

It's true, says my level 61 Hunter. No other sword PA is as good as Over End, and Over End isn't worth shit 'cause you won't hit anything with it.

[Dnd]

If it wasn't for shunka and s-roll, people would be complaining over-end hits too hard despite its slow hits.. (It happened in the past and it'd happen again).

I think its fine, I had no issues in a SHAQ party last night running around with a sword and WL and not being left behind. However that being said, I'd rather it get a speed buff then damage buff

[Rakurai]

I hope they'll have had the sense to not make the new Falz extremely resistant to everything other then the elements it's weak against like Hunar/Elder were.

I don't really like being completely forced to use certain elements.

[doomdragon83]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qq0RZ6ScHCw
Dat music.

I may not even be available to play it as it comes out due to some circumstances. When I do get a chance, I may finally use a skill reset depending on whether the new skills are good or not.

[Cyron Tanryoku]

Apr 23rd Update
------------------
+ Level cap 70 ( No level cap CO ).



+ New Story quest.

a reason to play for a week

[Rakurai]

I've been hording tech PA fragments in anticipation of the level 2 recipes.

The new EQ is a nice change of pace, being a lengthy gauntlet that makes you do multiple laps around the map, fighting numerous bosses on the way, though they seem semi-randomized.

They're also apparently making it so ETs can perform a second change-over into a Code: Fortune that spawns random rare enemies, which can include a Takamikazuchi.

[mctastee]

Why would they buff up Overend when my cousin at level 35 can hit 2k-11k damage with each hit?

It leaves you completely vulnerable for the first 2 swings and you can't cancel until the third swing. On bosses it only causes flinch on the third swing, and you can't be flinched during overend so the boss is free to fuck you while you use it. Basically, even though it deals a lot of damage you take a huge risk using it.

[pkemr4]

Code:EPISODE2大型アップデート第4弾「再誕の光」紹介ムービー (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qq0RZ6ScHCw)
Dat music.

I may not even be available to play it as it comes out due to some circumstances. When I do get a chance, I may finally use a skill reset depending on whether the new skills are good or not.

>no presquite for Sharpshooter

awww yiss

[Reiketsu]

Code:EPISODE2大型アップデート第4弾「再誕の光」紹介ムービー (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qq0RZ6ScHCw)
Dat music.

I may not even be available to play it as it comes out due to some circumstances. When I do get a chance, I may finally use a skill reset depending on whether the new skills are good or not.

The music reminded me of 'Short Circuit' from Tales of Legendia.

Anyway, I'm really looking forward to the new story quest.
That camera thingie is cool, too. Can't wait to play around with that.
The scratch's gonna suck again. After watching the trailer just a minute ago, I can't even remember any of the fashion stuff that was shown in it.

[BIG OLAF]

Is that a new level of code? It looks like it goes from CHANGE OVER to EXCEPTION.

[Rakurai]

It is. I hope rare bosses are included with it at times.

I also really dig the Falz Angel boss theme, though I doubt he'll be durable enough to for anyone to hear even half of it before he goes down, because it seems to easily be the longest boss theme in the game at the moment.

[Shinamori]

Apr 23rd Update
------------------
+ Add 10 stages for EQ [ Ruin & Seabed ]



Finally, EQs based in ruins...?

[Z-0]

Extreme Quest.

[Zipzo]

Because it's slow as crap. By the time you get to the second swing, everything is dead.

This may have been true in Very Hard where enemies possessed the durability equivalent of an AI controlled wet tissue paper but it most certainly is not true in Super Hard.

Over End is probably just what they thought was the best candidate to bring Hunters back in to the light, given its history as the "go-to" PA...so they went with that. I don't think Over End could really "use" anything else aside from more damage, the PA is kind of specific in its nature and purpose...a slow but extremely powerful attack, and it is just that.

The issue right now is Shunka, not Over End, and they're attempting to buff as much as they can close enough to Shunka to where the inevitable nerf doesn't hurt as much. So I don't think these buffs are as well thought out as we'd like them to be.

[Rien]

Why would they buff up Overend when my cousin at level 35 can hit 2k-11k damage with each hit?

11k is only the final hit.

By SH, you should be able to do 10k damage on demand (meaning, under 2 seconds) because trash mob health is slightly over that. All weapons have some method of achieving this.

You'd have to have a max geared over end (or a top of the line sword) to do that in 2 seconds, because the final hit goes past 2 seconds. That's a bit too much considering how difficult it is to get sword gear AND have enough left over to do Over End without killing a mob. Hell, Guilty Break can do better.

[BIG OLAF]

I also really dig the Falz Angel boss theme, though I doubt he'll be durable enough to for anyone to hear even half of it before he goes down, because it seems to easily be the longest boss theme in the game at the moment.

I think the fellow doing the vocals halfway through tried a little too hard. For vocals like that, I think you should either go with a singular female voice, or a whole chorus. A singular male voice more often that not sounds a bit wonky, unless the man in question has a particular talent.

But, yes, as a whole, the Falz Angel theme is pretty good listening.

[icewindz]

Will I get a SP reset pass from this update?

[SallySalSal]

Anyone have an idea on how the mag camo function works?

[Pneuma]

By the way why does Shunka need a nerf?

Level 10 Shunka at level 41 for me does 1200-1600 first hit, then 2000-3000; and for the final hit 6000-8000 if I have Shifta+Large Atk Up;

I mean it could be nerfed by not allowing it to be canceled mid skill by blocking but as a Br/Tech Its just as strong as my cousin's level 10 overend at level 35 Hu/Fi

[Rakurai]

I only now just noticed that the number of crafting achievements more then doubled for both forms of crafting.

Assuming that the level 2 tech recipes are going cost at minimum twice as much as the previous ones, and that most of the achievements are repeats of the level 1 versions...that's an awful lot of tech fragments.


Anyone have an idea on how the mag camo function works?

It looks as though your mag now simply stores all of the evolution devices that you've used on it so you can freely switch its appearance whenever you wish.


By the way why does Shunka need a nerf?

Level 10 Shunka at level 41 for me does 1200-1600 first hit, then 2000-3000; and for the final hit 6000-8000 if I have Shifta+Large Atk Up;

I mean it could be nerfed by not allowing it to be canceled mid skill by blocking but as a Br/Tech Its just as strong as my cousin's level 10 overend at level 35 Hu/Fi

That's kind of the problem there. HU provides a greater then 75% increase to striking damage once you've maxed all of the relevant skills, whereas Techer provides at best a 20% increase. If you were subbing HU, you'd be doing far more damage then him. Shunka's effective damage multiplier at level 16 if you land all of the hits is closer to 3000%, versus the 1900% of Overend, not to mention you can finish a full combo faster then you can do Overend.

A single hit of it deals more damage then every single Katana PA other then Hadou Rindou, plus it does multiple hits with each use and works as a gap closer, all for a measly 30 PP. Overall, it seemingly has the highest sustainable DPS out of any PA in the game, and doesn't have any kind of significant downside to it to balance it out like a long charge time.

[Sizustar]

I only now just noticed that the number of crafting achievements more then doubled for both forms of crafting.

Assuming that the level 2 tech recipes are going cost at minimum twice as much as the previous ones, and that most of the achievements are repeats of the level 1 versions...that's an awful lot of tech fragments.



It looks as though your mag now simply stores all of the evolution devices that you've used on it so you can freely switch its appearance whenever you wish.

You can always hire someone else to do it for you~

[Kondibon]

By the way why does Shunka need a nerf?

Level 10 Shunka at level 41 for me does 1200-1600 first hit, then 2000-3000; and for the final hit 6000-8000 if I have Shifta+Large Atk Up;

I mean it could be nerfed by not allowing it to be canceled mid skill by blocking but as a Br/Tech Its just as strong as my cousin's level 10 overend at level 35 Hu/FiIt's fast, has several approaches in the animation, does tons of damage, has a low pp cost, and has hyper armor. Personally I think they just need to increase the pp cost and maybe make the last swing not hit twice, but it's likely just gonna get a damage nerf.

[Sizustar]

By the way why does Shunka need a nerf?

Level 10 Shunka at level 41 for me does 1200-1600 first hit, then 2000-3000; and for the final hit 6000-8000 if I have Shifta+Large Atk Up;

I mean it could be nerfed by not allowing it to be canceled mid skill by blocking but as a Br/Tech Its just as strong as my cousin's level 10 overend at level 35 Hu/Fi

It's DPS doesn't match the cost of PP for other class PA and Tech.

Same with the Fo's lightning prior to the Nerf.

[Mysterious-G]

Anyone have an idea on how the mag camo function works?

I don't think they properly explained it yet, but the only way I see it making sense is by giving you the option to change the appearance of your mag back to a former one by paying the AC price. So basically, you now register a mag cell to your mag catalog, and are free to change inbetween the registered ones for the price of some AC.

[SallySalSal]

I don't think they properly explained it yet, but the only way I see it making sense is by giving you the option to change the appearance of your mag back to a former one by paying the AC price. So basically, you now register a mag cell to your mag catalog, and are free to change inbetween the registered ones for the price of some AC.

Interesting. Wonder if it's based on mag evos. you've used on your char/acc or just on that specific mag. Thanks for the insight!

[Mysterious-G]

You're welcome. Take it with a grain of salt though, as it's purely speculation on my part.

[Pneuma]

It's DPS doesn't match the cost of PP for other class PA and Tech.

Same with the Fo's lightning prior to the Nerf.


It's fast, has several approaches in the animation, does tons of damage, has a low pp cost, and has hyper armor. Personally I think they just need to increase the pp cost and maybe make the last swing not hit twice, but it's likely just gonna get a damage nerf.

Hm...It has a PP cost of 30..so maybe 40~50 so you cant triple cast it;

No clue what Hyper Armor is lol...last time I heard "Hyper" was in PSO1

[MetalDude]

Super/Hyper Armor is a general action/fighting game tech term that refers to immunity to flinching or knockback (or any related mechanic). I remember someone trying to point out that this was somehow a bad thing on Shunka, but under the right (and not really difficult to achieve) circumstances, it means completely uninterrupted and extremely high damage.
The biggest issue is that it makes a bulk of the BR playerbase stupid by default; there's no inherent drive to improve because Shunka's just too easy.

My favorite solution is probably what giga's been throwing around forever: 30-35PP up front, and 5-10 for each strike meaning you have to pay up initially making you want to commit, and every strike adds up (or forces you to save more before using it). This should especially remain the case if the last strike will still hit twice.

[Kondibon]

My favorite solution is probably what giga's been throwing around forever: 30-35PP up front, and 5-10 for each strike meaning you have to pay up initially making you want to commit, and every strike adds up (or forces you to save more before using it). This should especially remain the case if the last strike will still hit twice.
This is what I was thinking too. 30-35 pp at the start, 5 pp for the 2nd and 3rd hits, 10 pp for the last one to be exact.

[Rien]

I just wanted to say that it should be Volg Raptor and not Vol Graptor because Volg (Волк) means wolf

[Niagara]

Dat music. Dat story quest... I wonder who will be possessed by Bird Falz.

Theodore ? Luther ? I can't see anyone else. Plus, Falz Angel is a caster...

[WBMike]

I just wanted to say that it should be Volg Raptor and not Vol Graptor because Volg (Волк) means wolf


Got it!

[Ouranos]

there's no inherent drive to improve because Shunka's just too easy.


Worrying about balance issues and spamming one of the most efficient PA to farm stuff are two different things. This is basically the same argument against Tank builds;

"Tank builds are not viable because killing enemies QUICKER is the best defense."

I have nothing against nerfing Shunka. But if spamming one PA yields good results for farming and hunting in lesser time, then why not.

[Rien]

Improve your shunka damage

Is that not drive enough?

[Atmius]

Assuming that the level 2 tech recipes are going cost at minimum twice as much as the previous ones, and that most of the achievements are repeats of the level 1 versions...that's an awful lot of tech fragments.

Almost, but not quite. A screen shot on the update page shows a level 2 tech customisation costing 8 frags and 20k meseta. I'm moreso hoping that they improve the great success of desynth, since tech frags are lot harder to come by if you aren't playing fo or te.

[gigawuts]

Worrying about balance issues and spamming one of the most efficient PA to farm stuff are two different things. This is basically the same argument against Tank builds;

"Tank builds are not viable because killing enemies QUICKER is the best defense."

I have nothing against nerfing Shunka. But if spamming one PA yields good results for farming and hunting in lesser time, then why not.

You both have good points.

They do want players to die more often, and Shunka 1-2shots too many things too easily.

But, I don't dislike anyone for spamming it. It enables bad players to perform decently, which directly benefits me. You should use the best tool for a given job, and Shunka right now is just the best tool for a lot of jobs. It's a quick gap closer for that single stab, it hits hard, it has a deceptively large hitbox, it has hyper armor, amazing DPS, works with only 30 PP in your pocket, keeps you in the air the whole time, and it's very precise.

[Zipzo]

You both have good points.

They do want players to die more often, and Shunka 1-2shots too many things too easily.

But, I don't dislike anyone for spamming it. It enables bad players to perform decently, which directly benefits me. You should use the best tool for a given job, and Shunka right now is just the best tool for a lot of jobs. It's a quick gap closer for that single stab, it hits hard, it has a deceptively large hitbox, it has hyper armor, amazing DPS, works with only 30 PP in your pocket, keeps you in the air the whole time, and it's very precise.

Yes, all of this also makes it broken as ever living fuck. It simply doesn't need to exist. Katana was more versatile and interesting without it.

[gigawuts]

Basically

It's Over End when Over End was new, if Over End had a smaller AOE and lunged forward.

It's not only that it's so powerful, but it's that it does so many different things. It's a swiss army knife PA. It does like 10 things either better than any other katana PA, or almost as good as a better katana PA, so you can save space by just not bringing that specific PA and using Shunka instead.

[UnLucky]

Almost, but not quite. A screen shot on the update page shows a level 2 tech customisation costing 8 frags and 20k meseta. I'm moreso hoping that they improve the great success of desynth, since tech frags are lot harder to come by if you aren't playing fo or te.
Can't wait to lose all progress from previously learned lv1 recipes and retry 200 times for a good Great Success roll for both merit and demerit at the same time.

[Punisher106]

+ Level cap 70 ( No level cap CO ).
+ New Story quest.
+ New Field: Mothership
+ New Boss: Falz Angel
+ Add 10 stages for EQ [ Ruin & Seabed ]
+ Easter Lobby
+ New LQ


MY SANGEBONER IS NOW PIERCING THE HEAVENS

[SakoHaruo]

+ Level cap 70 ( No level cap CO ).


I'm starting to believe Darkers are the good guys now. They have no chance, no shot at all. They're fighting a losing battle and are suppose to be the bad guys here. They're suppose to be the ones with all the power, not us. We Arks are the true bullies of the universe.

poor area 3 warriors. with Sakai in control you guys will never evolve :-(

[Maninbluejumpsuit]

Rather than being unique, and creative about an approach to nerf shunka, how would people feel if they just cut its total damage per attack in half by tomorrow assuming fury stance is left alone?

Honestly as a braver id be totally okay with that.

[Triple_S]

Seriously, we need a way to make crafted weapons have and scale from T-ATK. Or shit, just a way to change their craft stat in general. It's pretty shitty that anyone subbing Techer or Force have extremely few options to actually do damage with magic without using a Rod, Wand, or Talis.

Obviously you wouldn't be able to come close to Rod, Wand, or Talis T-ATK, but it could at least be passable. Doesn't have to come near Vibras Bow or Brauvint levels either, though those would be better anyway due to good split stats and not having shitty variance.

[UnLucky]

Rather than being unique, and creative about an approach to nerf shunka, how would people feel if they just cut its total damage per attack in half by tomorrow assuming fury stance is left alone?

Honestly as a braver id be totally okay with that.
That would still be too much for the PP cost.

Even 50k per swing on a WB'd weak point shouldn't be possible with a 30PP gap closer.

[Macman]

MY SANGEBONER IS NOW PIERCING THE HEAVENS
Go chase a Yasha instead.

[Rakurai]

Go chase a Yasha instead.

I imagine those will become more common on the market as a result of Falz Hunar being one of the potential EQ bosses.

[Enforcer MKV]

Go chase a Yasha instead.

Can't hear you over the sound of my new all class Katana. Lalalalalala. xD

[Maninbluejumpsuit]

That would still be too much for the PP cost.

Even 50k per swing on a WB'd weak point shouldn't be possible with a 30PP gap closer.

I dunno. We've got people throwing out 10K+ ilmegids now.

Btw, my overhead shunka cuts are almost 20k.

[Sizustar]

I dunno. We've got people throwing out 10K+ ilmegids now.

Btw, my overhead shunka cuts are almost 20k.

Against enemy weak to the specific element, and require specific gear that raise the element and weapon bonus.

[Maninbluejumpsuit]

Against enemy weak to the specific element, and require specific gear that raise the element and weapon bonus.

Well the new FO skill should make up for some of those dependencies maybe.

[Triple_S]

Well the new FO skill should make up for some of those dependencies maybe.

I thought the new skill was pretty much adding to that dependency?

[UnLucky]

Yeah, you said cut it in half. Shunka easily does 90k on falz per shot now with average gear.

It really shouldn't be oneshotting everything on every hit, and it still would after a 50% nerf.

Ilmegid costs more PP, takes longer to charge, does way less damage per hit, and doesn't reliably hit the same target five times. And you can't just grab any cheap 9* weapon to output those numbers, you need a specific build and 50% lv3 latent weapon that doesn't help you for any other element.

[Alukard]

Yeah, you said cut it in half. Shunka easily does 90k on falz per shot now with average gear.

It really shouldn't be oneshotting everything on every hit, and it still would after a 50% nerf.

Ilmegid costs more PP, takes longer to charge, does way less damage per hit, and doesn't reliably hit the same target five times. And you can't just grab any cheap 9* weapon to output those numbers, you need a specific build and 50% lv3 latent weapon that doesn't help you for any other element.

You're missing the point. Shunka is single target, ilmegid multi.

[UnLucky]

Oh okay, so the horizontal slice from Shunka is single target now, and you can't compare the tracking to multiple enemies to Ilmegid doing the same.

[Maninbluejumpsuit]

Oh okay, so the horizontal slice from Shunka is single target now, and you can't compare the tracking to multiple enemies to Ilmegid doing the same.

Well the 1st and 4th attacks of shunka have the real dash reach. Kinda hard to hit anything else not already near you with the 2nd and 3rd. Ilmegid still covers a wider range.

A ~50% nerf seems enough to bring it in line with ilmegid.



Now realistically, I doubt sega even has the balls to even go that far.

[Rakurai]

I can't help but wonder what the new weapon crafting recipes are going to have to offer, especially for there to be another 65 achievements tied to them.

I still think they ought to have a more expensive recipe that doesn't have the removal of the dex bonus so using old weapons would actually be feasible.

[Rien]

I don't want shunka to be nerfed only because sakura is a piece of shit in comparison to regular SH damage. Maybe if it hit 5k x2 at 2k s-atk...

[Rupikachu]

[SPOILER-BOX]
Matoi actually does something!

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/69084784/Captura-de-pantalla-2014-04-13-a-la%28s%29-11.11.54.png
[/SPOILER-BOX]

[Rakurai]

So they finally realized some of the Techer skill tree's skill pre-reqs were excessive. I suppose that's a start. Long Time Assist is definitely going to only be worth investing a single skill point into, though, considering the trend the other new skills are following.


[SPOILER-BOX]
Matoi actually does something!

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/69084784/Captura-de-pantalla-2014-04-13-a-la%28s%29-11.11.54.png
[/SPOILER-BOX]

[SPOILER-BOX]With how dense Huey seems to be, I wasn't expecting him to be one of the six who decides to help out the player.

I'm also betting on Theodore becoming Falz Angel, partly because he uses a talis and Angel was mentioned as using a talis as its weapon, as well.[/SPOILER-BOX]

[Rien]

[SPOILER-BOX]
Matoi actually does something!

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/69084784/Captura-de-pantalla-2014-04-13-a-la%28s%29-11.11.54.png
[/SPOILER-BOX]

I've said it before and will say it again. She uses technics.

[Mysterious-G]

Come on, guys, was there ever any doubt? Huey is way too shonen to be evil.

[spoiler-box]"HAHAHAHA! I don't really know what's going on, but I'm all fired up! I think I will just help you out this time, player!! Sorry, leader, it's just gonna be this one time!!"[/spoiler-box]

[Crystal_Shard]

Come on, guys, was there ever any doubt? Huey is way too shonen to be evil.

[spoiler-box]"HAHAHAHA! I don't really know what's going on, but I'm all fired up! I think I will just help you out this time, player!! Sorry, leader, it's just gonna be this one time!!"[/spoiler-box]

Not to mention that he's spent the whole game harassing the player to find something to rescue the player from; he's not going to let his big chance run away like that. ^^;

[kabutozero]

want to see kazan nadeshiko damage :3 , can't imagine how much damage it will do being so slow :D

[Rakurai]

The multiplier is 1800% at level 16.

It'll probably serve its purpose as a linear AoE well.

[Renvalt]

[SPOILER-BOX]With how dense Huey seems to be, I wasn't expecting him to be one of the six who decides to help out the player.

I'm also betting on Theodore becoming Falz Angel, partly because he uses a talis and Angel was mentioned as using a talis as its weapon, as well.[/SPOILER-BOX]

[SPOILER-BOX]Actually, Huey was assigned the hair-pulling task of babysitting Claris Claes, due to her outright immaturity (not to mention they paired her up with a fake Genesis that is just as powerful as the original - albeit with a slight reduction).

And before you think Falz Angel is going to be Theodore, let's get two things straight. One, while we kinda saw Gettemhalt being an ornery bastard, nobody foresaw him gut-checking Shina (or even caring for her).

Second, Luther was introduced prior to Theodore's mindbreak. And the dude was responsible for creating Vopar - he had something to do with creating the Neptunians. If anything, I could easily see Luther betraying Theodore after giving him his power to discard (in his words) "a useless tool".

Also, in case you need more proof, the boss is called Falz Angel. I direct you to this dude (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_Luther) for more etymological backing.

Beloved by the Germans, has an extremely holy history - the signs point more to Luther than they do Theodore. Theodore's going to be the Shina for this arc, and Luther might possible ditch his nice guy "Persona". See where I'm going with this?

As for the brainwashing of the Arks, that's simple: Three Heroes Decree #1 is to protect the Mothership no matter what. That's why Regias is trying to kill you (though he should be aiming at Luther, but I doubt he understands that yet, which explains his use of absolute authority).

EDIT - I should also mention that Luther's been trying to axe Xion permanently, which is why Xiao, Sara, and Maria are going through all the trouble of outright rebellion. Arks as it is now is no more than Luther's plaything. It also bears mentioning that our rescuing Matoi screwed up whatever Luther has planned, which may be why he needs her dead again. Although I'd argue he sorely underestimates us.

[/SPOILER-BOX]

[Niagara]

[SPOILER-BOX]As for the "Luther or Theodore for the new Falz" thing, I can't see Luther being a Falz. He's more like the chessmaster than an pawn, in his game.

Theodore want to destroy Darkers, right ? Just like Gettemhart wanted to. But instead of destroying them, Gettem became of them. I can see Theodore having the exact same fate.

Luther could totally betray Theodore by forcing him to become Falz Angel, a darker. It's like, the last thing Theodore wants. In the trailer, we can see Luther being all happy about meeting the new Falz (He is saying something like "Soon, we'll get to know eachother!), right before a kind of sealed door. When Theodore yell at the end, he is standing right before the exact same door. Right before a fight, where Theodore uses Darkness.

Giving a power-up to Theo just to betray him sounds...well. Dumb. Actually, he is a perfect Falz host. Plus the fact that Falz Angel can use technique with a talis (remember chapter 1?).

There is also this, in the trailer description : 'そして、テオドール*の運命は？' => "What will be Theodore's fate?", which hints to something...very important.

I can totally picture Luther forcing Theodore to be Falz Angel's host, but nothing else. It's...out of character, to me.

Also, about the name Falz Angel, actually, in a picture with the new camera settings, we can see "angle" being written with the exact same spelling than Falz Angel. Might a pun, but it's actually Angle.
[/SPOILER-BOX]

[gigawuts]

Oh okay, so the horizontal slice from Shunka is single target now

...This would actually go a short ways to fixing the PA.

And Sakura's problem is that it has that annoying sheathe animation when you're done. Make it JA as quickly as Kanran and we're fine.

[Alukard]

Oh okay, so the horizontal slice from Shunka is single target now, and you can't compare the tracking to multiple enemies to Ilmegid doing the same.

Oh okay, so the charging time of ilmegid is shorter than charging into the horizontal slice? Doesn't seem very coherent, does it?

The travelling distance is huge for shunka (gap closer), but the attacks themself have a narrow range. Any attack in pso2 hits multiple enemies if they are close enough, I really don't know how you didn't notice this yet.

Shunka and ilmegid have entirely different purposes, comparing them and using one to justify anothers nerf is quite senseless.

[UnLucky]

Shunka's first hit pierces pretty far, and the slices hit nearby mobs. Nearby, as in, not directly on top of each other.

But despite that, it can keep traveling and hit multiple targets, if not clusters. It's a lot more useful than just for picking off a single mob.

And I wasn't even the first to bring up Ilmegid.

I started off by saying Shunka is way too powerful, way too useful, way too efficient. Compared to anything at all it needs a nerf.

I'm not sure how you can't see the fact that Ilmegid homes in on one enemy, hits it, then travels to the next is not at all comparable to how Shunka homes in on one enemy, hits it, then travels to the next one.

Except Shunka charges faster, costs less PP, and does a lot more damage to each target along the way and doesn't require any special equipment to make it good.

[Mysterious-G]

[SPOILER-BOX]Also, about the name Falz Angel, actually, in a picture with the new camera settings, we can see "angle" being written with the exact same spelling than Falz Angel. Might a pun, but it's actually Angle.
[/SPOILER-BOX]

[spoiler-box]Angel = Engel in German
Angle = Pronounced the same way as Engel
Luther is the German dude that invented Protestantism.

???

Dark Falz Engel[/spoiler-box]
Sadly people don't seem willed to adopt this name for the new Falz, despite me being pretty sure that's what it is. Not like it matters much as the meaning is the same, but some people on here do like to point out original translations to be worse than the fan ones, so have me mention it anyway.

[Rien]

The multiplier is 1800% at level 16.

It'll probably serve its purpose as a linear AoE well.

At ~1900 s-atk it hits 20k.

It'll split small trash in half, but the bigger ones... yeah, not happening.

[Bellion]

Yeah, only 20k damage on the livestream. How about for others with a good build and equipment?

[Maninbluejumpsuit]

Shunka's first hit pierces pretty far, and the slices hit nearby mobs. Nearby, as in, not directly on top of each other.

But despite that, it can keep traveling and hit multiple targets, if not clusters. It's a lot more useful than just for picking off a single mob.

And I wasn't even the first to bring up Ilmegid.

I started off by saying Shunka is way too powerful, way too useful, way too efficient. Compared to anything at all it needs a nerf.

I'm not sure how you can't see the fact that Ilmegid homes in on one enemy, hits it, then travels to the next is not at all comparable to how Shunka homes in on one enemy, hits it, then travels to the next one.

Except Shunka charges faster, costs less PP, and does a lot more damage to each target along the way and doesn't require any special equipment to make it good.

I already agreed it needs a nerf.

Apparently you think shunka will still outclasses ilmegid in every way if shunka's damage was cut in half, which is where I disagree (~12k stab, ~18k vertical, ~20k final with JT potential and ~2100 s atk down to ~6-7k, ~9-10k, ~10-11k). Assuming this happens, we're comparing a ranged projectile attack to a melee attack (with two limited range slashes); ilmegid already has an advantage because of that.

Ilmegid is still good as is, and will get better, even if the new FO skill has an inconvenient requirement, it's the player's choice to take it.

I know it seems odd to compare shunka to ilmegid, but now that ilmegid is becoming among the best mobbing techs available without being game breaking, it's a good measure of what is 'fair' in damage and function. Cutting shunka in half should be more than enough to bring it down to a somewhat 'balanced' level.

Another thing, picking a specific weapon/potential to deal more damage with your choice of techs isn't that much different than picking any other weapon. Granted, there are slightly more specific criteria to fill, but it's ultimately the same thing as anyone else; pick a weapon/spec to do more damage.

[Alukard]

Shunka's first hit pierces pretty far, and the slices hit nearby mobs. Nearby, as in, not directly on top of each other.

But despite that, it can keep traveling and hit multiple targets, if not clusters. It's a lot more useful than just for picking off a single mob.

Really no point in arguing the range of the attacks. By no means you'll get the equivalent of ilmegid where you stand on one spot and reach across the whole room. Ever played sanctum or Floating SH AQ with a Fo as a Br recently? You'll get carried.


I started off by saying Shunka is way too powerful, way too useful, way too efficient. Compared to anything at all it needs a nerf.

I'm not sure how you can't see the fact that Ilmegid homes in on one enemy, hits it, then travels to the next is not at all comparable to how Shunka homes in on one enemy, hits it, then travels to the next one.

Shunka is situational, so it's essentially the same as any other PA

Multiple enemies within close range: Kanran
Clustered enemies ( Zondeel): Rindou
Single enemies(low mobility): Rindou

Shunka isn't even worth the consideration within those situations.. Shunka simply isn't as efficient as you think it would be.

That homing bs isn't even worth debating but to make it clear: Braver moves with the attack while the Fo stands still. Not to mention that ilmegid would probably land a hit on all enemies around by the time you do your "horizontal slice". Do you understand the concept of a melee attack and a ranged attack?


Except Shunka charges faster, costs less PP, and does a lot more damage to each target along the way and doesn't require any special equipment to make it good..

Shunka needs to be recharged after each hit, costs less pp, reaches alot less targets and requires you to reposition yourself. The latter is one of the most important factors in TA: Positioning. Not to mention that you shouldn't stray around in crossbursts either.

Please cut the crap already.

Edit: Did some research, there are a bunch of BR's involved in ta.

[LonelyGaruga]

All UnLucky initially said was that Shunka needed a nerf. It wasn't him bringing up the Ilmegid comparison. Shunka does a ton of damage regardless of gear, you need a highly specialized build and equipment just to make Ilmegid reach the numbers mentioned. Whether Ilmegid can hit multiple targets or not is irrelevant to this when UnLucky mentioned single target damage specifically. Bringing up Ilmegid doesn't even make sense.

In case it isn't clear enough, the reason for bringing up the Shunka nerf isn't because it can hit multiple targets for such obscene damage, but that it can reach such obscene damage at all. Remember, average gear hits these numbers. Average Ilmegid is closer to 5K. At best, Ilmegid is hitting 5 digit damage, where with Shunka, you can literally down Val Rodos in three or so uses without Weak Bullet. That's over a million damage.

[Rien]

Yeah, only 20k damage on the livestream. How about for others with a good build and equipment?

He has good equipment, but not a good build. Still, though, I don't see someone dealing any more than 25k with a "fixed" build.

[Vetur]

What are AQs and LQs? I guess the Q is quest, right? I only know about EQ, though.
Oh, AQ is Arks quest, right?


Really no point in arguing the range of the attacks. By no means you'll get the equivalent of ilmegid where you stand on one spot and reach across the whole room. Ever played sanctum or Floating SH AQ with a Fo as a Br recently? You'll get carried.

Shunka is situational, so it's essentially the same as any other PA

Multiple enemies within close range: Kanran
Clustered enemies ( Zondeel): Rindou
Single enemies(low mobility): Rindou

Shunka isn't even worth the consideration within those situations.. Shunka simply isn't as efficient as you think it would be.

That homing bs isn't even worth debating but to make it clear: Braver moves with the attack while the Fo stands still. Not to mention that ilmegid would probably land a hit on all enemies around by the time you do your "horizontal slice". Do you understand the concept of a melee attack and a ranged attack?

Shunka needs to be recharged after each hit, costs less pp, reaches alot less targets and requires you to reposition yourself. The latter is one of the most important factors in TA: Positioning. Not to mention that you shouldn't stray around in crossbursts either.

Please cut the crap already.

Edit: Did some research, there are a bunch of BR's involved in ta.

I agree that the Shunka is situational. I find myself sometimes better off using Kanran or Asagiri Rendan, depending on the situation. I also find Shunka's really difficult to position yourself in a way that you won't miss enemies and hit air. :( Though that could just be my personal lack of skill.
I personally use it mostly for boss fights and enemies that won't die in a few seconds with other skills.

[Zipzo]

Shunka and ilmegid have entirely different purposes, comparing them and using one to justify anothers nerf is quite senseless.

Unlucky didn't compare them at all, nor was he using either to justify the nerf or buff of either.

All he said was that Shunka was broken and needed a nerf. The post that brought ilmegid in to the fray was this one...


I really don't know how you didn't notice this yet.


I dunno. We've got people throwing out 10K+ ilmegids now.

Btw, my overhead shunka cuts are almost 20k.

I don't really know how you didn't notice that.

He used it as a comparison to demonstrate that Shunka may not stand so tall above the rest, if my comprehension of this statement is accurate.


Please cut the crap already.

Look in the mirror. You're the only person I've ever read that's attempting to actually make some kind of justification for the validity of Shunka's current state, when it's been acknowledged even by our bonehead publishers (finally) that it is absurd and needs to be fixed.

[Rien]

I agree that the Shunka is situational. I find myself sometimes better off using Kanran or Asagiri Rendan, depending on the situation. I also find Shunka's really difficult to position yourself in a way that you won't miss enemies and hit air. :( Though that could just be my personal lack of skill.
I personally use it mostly for boss fights and enemies that won't die in a few seconds with other skills.


Wait, you still use Asagiri for actual damage?

How much do you hit with that?

[Renvalt]

All this discussion about Shunka and I didn't even think to mention that I hate the damned thing.

I'd rather use Tsukimi-Sazanka or Hatou-Rindou. The former especially because it works the same as any other Striking PA - no needing to use charge syncing, just spam default attack and use Tsukimi every 3-4 strikes or so.

But I will say this: any change that can get people to stop being braindead morons is a good change in my book.... Oh wait, I forgot.

There's no fixing stupidity.

[Rien]

And, again, how hard do you hit with Tsukimi-Sazanka?

SHAQ small trash have over 10k health, and larger trash have between 20 and 25k.

I personally hit 3.9k with Tsukimi and 700 per hit with a 1.4k finisher with Asagiri Rendan

A few uses can kill a mob, but seriously, with the high damage demand, you're going to end up using Shunka.

[UnLucky]

Shunka needs to be recharged after each hit, costs less pp, reaches alot less targets and requires you to reposition yourself. The latter is one of the most important factors in TA: Positioning. Not to mention that you shouldn't stray around in crossbursts either.

Please cut the crap already.

Now I'm certain you've been spewing gibberish at me the entire time. What recharge? And I'm pretty sure covering distance is much more important in TAs, as well as having enough PP to continue dispatching enemies and dashing to the next spawn.

Like, are you honestly arguing against a Shunka nerf? You don't use it because Kanran is better AoE, and Hatou has better range, so Shunka is pointless? Completely disregarding the damage output for the PP cost, and the utility of dashing towards your target as a melee class.

Shunka's damage makes it better than Kanran when it can't hit enough mobs to be faster. Shunka's PP cost makes it better than Hatou spam if it doesn't kill. The problem isn't that Shunka is the absolute best choice in every situation, it's that it's pretty close along with other unique advantages. You can totally optimize by using several different PAs that squeak ahead of mindless Shunka spam, but going autopilot with retard strength is still so effective it almost doesn't matter. Or you could even argue that canceling Asagiri into repeated Kanran or Hatou is less optimal than simply using Shunka due to how much PP you'll have left over.

Shunka is blatantly overpowered.

I do like how you specifically mention the only place where Ilmegid does good damage, when that was exactly part of the problem. You lose a large portion of your damage if the enemy isn't weak to dark, and if all you have is a general weapon with a paltry 5-8% damage latent it won't be enough. Go anywhere else and get carried by a melee class that can dash up to fresh spawns faster than you can charge, instantly do more damage than you can after waiting, and watch as they do it again for the next spawn further ahead of you. Then when you get to the boss, enjoy getting carried as your situational specifically single target techs don't do nearly as much damage as the same PA that's also a cheap AoE gap closer.


Another thing, picking a specific weapon/potential to deal more damage with your choice of techs isn't that much different than picking any other weapon. Granted, there are slightly more specific criteria to fill, but it's ultimately the same thing as anyone else; pick a weapon/spec to do more damage.
Yeah, it wouldn't be so bad if switching weapons let you be anywhere near as good with another element as the one you just optimized. Or if you didn't have three weapon types for six elements to optimize for with no overlap. It really just feels like maxing out a weapon for each and every viable PA you're going to use, while using a general weapon is way more than only a 10-20% difference. As if it required a completely separate tree to use Assault Buster rather than Slide End where trying to use both in a single mission meant sacrificing 15% damage, and you had a weapon for each that boosted the respective PA by 45%. And neither one did any damage to machines.

Looking at Hunter or Fighter, yeah they've got to get several different weapons to be their best in any situation. But Gunners just need the strongest TMG and they're fine. Bravers go for the strongest katana to be the best everywhere, with an optional bow for utility which is just a few stat points lower a pure bow spec.

Comparing 1/2 power Shunka to Ilmegid, Shunka would still do more damage per hit, and definitely more total to a single target. That's all I'm really saying. It would be easier to gear up to a point where nerfed Shunka still oneshots trash. Ilmegid would still be a safe ranged attack, and Shunka would still be an efficient gap closer.


All this discussion about Shunka and I didn't even think to mention that I hate the damned thing.

I'd rather use Tsukimi-Sazanka or Hatou-Rindou. The former especially because it works the same as any other Striking PA - no needing to use charge syncing, just spam default attack and use Tsukimi every 3-4 strikes or so.

But I will say this: any change that can get people to stop being braindead morons is a good change in my book.... Oh wait, I forgot.

There's no fixing stupidity.
I would much prefer to see Tsukimi/Gekka and Hatou get more use. They were perfectly balanced (at lv16) and exactly what Braver needed before Shunka.

[GoldenFalcon]

It's wishful thinking, but Shunka should cost like 45 pp, and require timing on the directional key to do the combo. Holding the key would not combo it, and it would require JA timing to do JA damage with the combo slashes.

derp

[Walkure]

But that'd ruin the ability to turn on Katana Combat, lock-on, auto-run, and play one-handed for 20 seconds.

[Rien]

But that'd ruin the ability to turn on Katana Combat, lock-on, auto-run, and play one-handed for 20 seconds.

What would you need the other hand for?

[Walkure]

What would you need the other hand for?
Building up for a finish, obviously.

[milranduil]

Building up for a finish, obviously.

[spoiler-box]
http://static.giantbomb.com/uploads/original/6/69534/2612851-0043027115-oh-yo.png
5char
[/spoiler-box]

[Rakurai]

[SPOILER-BOX]As for the "Luther or Theodore for the new Falz" thing, I can't see Luther being a Falz. He's more like the chessmaster than an pawn, in his game.

Theodore want to destroy Darkers, right ? Just like Gettemhart wanted to. But instead of destroying them, Gettem became of them. I can see Theodore having the exact same fate.

Luther could totally betray Theodore by forcing him to become Falz Angel, a darker. It's like, the last thing Theodore wants. In the trailer, we can see Luther being all happy about meeting the new Falz (He is saying something like "Soon, we'll get to know eachother!), right before a kind of sealed door. When Theodore yell at the end, he is standing right before the exact same door. Right before a fight, where Theodore uses Darkness.

Giving a power-up to Theo just to betray him sounds...well. Dumb. Actually, he is a perfect Falz host. Plus the fact that Falz Angel can use technique with a talis (remember chapter 1?).

There is also this, in the trailer description : 'そして、テオドール*の運命は？' => "What will be Theodore's fate?", which hints to something...very important.

I can totally picture Luther forcing Theodore to be Falz Angel's host, but nothing else. It's...out of character, to me.

Also, about the name Falz Angel, actually, in a picture with the new camera settings, we can see "angle" being written with the exact same spelling than Falz Angel. Might a pun, but it's actually Angle.
[/SPOILER-BOX]

[SPOILER-BOX]I think I'm most curious to see whether Luther is actually collaborating with Darkers and the Falzs, or if he's simply using them as tools like everyone else.

There's obviously some kind of connection between him and Persona, and there's the matter of who the "he" Apprentice was referring to in the first Quarry story quest when the Bleu Ringahda shows up.[/SPOILER-BOX]

[Renvalt]

And, again, how hard do you hit with Tsukimi-Sazanka?

SHAQ small trash have over 10k health, and larger trash have between 20 and 25k.

I personally hit 3.9k with Tsukimi and 700 per hit with a 1.4k finisher with Asagiri Rendan

A few uses can kill a mob, but seriously, with the high damage demand, you're going to end up using Shunka.

Except I don't touch SH. I haven't since I unlocked it. Unless it's EQs like Falz or TD, in which case I just do what I'm able and pretty much get carried (been lagging like a fucking slug lately during those times and have no idea why).

Every other time I play? I'm always soloing. I've had less reasons to log in after pretty much everyone on my friend list forgot who I was (or simply don't log in - so basically it's like the list hardly even exists).

If anything, the new Falz is going to be the real reason I come back to this game. Not the PAs or new shit.

P.S. And since you asked how much my Tsukimis do, the last Falz EQ I had it did around 12k on a WB'd Falz Arm weakpoint, and about 5k or so without the WB (keep in mind this was with Average+Fury up, and using a 50 Light +10 Castilon that I had to extend to around Level 2, since my DEX was too low at the time to extend it further).

EDIT - You were talking about SHAQs, in which I will kindly say that I didn't do AQs during their VH phase back when it was still relevant, and I haven't done AQs now, even with SHAQs being released.

In other words, I have no fucking idea why you thought of my saying I use Tsukimi when every other Braverderp uses Shunka because "herpaderp awsum damage lulz". I was simply putting it out there that I shouldn't be lumped with most of the idiots who roll Braver, yet I am.

And besides, when has anyone ever thought my words carried credibility in them? Think on that a while.

[jooozek]

so hipster

[pkemr4]

so toaster

[Zipzo]

Except I don't touch SH. I haven't since I unlocked it. Unless it's EQs like Falz or TD, in which case I just do what I'm able and pretty much get carried (been lagging like a fucking slug lately during those times and have no idea why).

Every other time I play? I'm always soloing. I've had less reasons to log in after pretty much everyone on my friend list forgot who I was (or simply don't log in - so basically it's like the list hardly even exists).

If anything, the new Falz is going to be the real reason I come back to this game. Not the PAs or new shit.

P.S. And since you asked how much my Tsukimis do, the last Falz EQ I had it did around 12k on a WB'd Falz Arm weakpoint, and about 5k or so without the WB (keep in mind this was with Average+Fury up, and using a 50 Light +10 Castilon that I had to extend to around Level 2, since my DEX was too low at the time to extend it further).

EDIT - You were talking about SHAQs, in which I will kindly say that I didn't do AQs during their VH phase back when it was still relevant, and I haven't done AQs now, even with SHAQs being released.

In other words, I have no fucking idea why you thought of my saying I use Tsukimi when every other Braverderp uses Shunka because "herpaderp awsum damage lulz". I was simply putting it out there that I shouldn't be lumped with most of the idiots who roll Braver, yet I am.

And besides, when has anyone ever thought my words carried credibility in them? Think on that a while.

I'm not like, saying your opinion is invalid as a person, but in terms of trying to add to any conversation that generally takes place here...it should be based on experience in SH (the "current" content).

Level 20 and what not means basically fuck all.

[WildarmsRE5]

Every other time I play? I'm always soloing. I've had less reasons to log in after pretty much everyone on my friend list forgot who I was (or simply don't log in - so basically it's like the list hardly even exists).sorry there, was busy in SH AQs.

[XPKun]

I don't understand why most people seem to think that the ones who use shunka are all no-skill idiots. Even worse when they go about justifying why they don't use it with obvious non-conformist reasoning. Like playing chess and refusing to use the Queen just because the majority do. :-?

Seriously though, just buckle up and wait for the changes. Prepare to adapt to it.

[Arada]

I welcome all these changes if they mean we're going to see more varied teams and playstyles.

Yesterday Falz was whored by 8 bravers, 2 gunners, 1 ranger and me (techer). It was not pretty but it was also super boring seeing all those Shunkas and clearly the bravers were only using that.

FO's Zonde was nerfed because it made all other techs pointless. Shunka is in almost the same situation now so I'll welcome the change just because I'll see more of the other PAs and/or classes. It can only be positive for the game.

[Rien]

In other words, I have no fucking idea why you thought of my saying I use Tsukimi when every other Braverderp uses Shunka because "herpaderp awsum damage lulz". I was simply putting it out there that I shouldn't be lumped with most of the idiots who roll Braver, yet I am.
I thought your signature was out of date so you might have been level 60 already, turns out you weren't.

Oops.

And I'm going to say that you can't even be grouped with them because you're not even at the level where you get pressured into using Shunka because every other photon art's power drops in comparison with the exception of Hatou Rindou (which requires incredible positioning to use well, anyway) This happens around level ~40.

[Triple_S]

Well, it's less that the PAs get weaker and more that enemy health from Hard to Very Hard gets a massive boost. So extremely hard-hitting PAs will win out. It's when a PA hits really god damn hard and does it much faster than anything else AND has a lot of range that we have a problem.

[Ouranos]

I don't think nerfing Shunka alone will suddenly make most Bravers use multiple/mix PAs against Falz. Even before we have Shunka, most of the Bravers I've seen and played with were spamming Hatou Rindou.

Interestingly enough, Bravers are not the most preferable class to use in SH AQs, Gunners and Techs are.

[gigawuts]

If they nerf braver into a decently balanced and rounded class most of those idiots will just go GU, even despite its nerf. This is because GU's strength doesn't lie in only its damage, but its damage:PP efficiency and ridiculous amount of super armor and cancel frames.

Infinity Fire, where you walk around spamming bullets, should not make you immune to every kind of interruption that isn't stun or a grapple. I also don't really think it should be flip cancelable at all, just dodge roll.

Shift Period should also lack super armor, and elder rebellion shouldn't able to be cancelled at all.

GU's strength is in having an obscene amount of liberty to use attacks based on which is going to be slightly better for the task, and having super armor for every single one of them.

[Triple_S]

Actually I think Elder Rebellion's ability to be cancelled is fine. If anything, shift some of the damage to the last three hits and make those unable to be cancelled while being slightly slower than they are now. Oo, or maybe make doing an S-Roll to cancel a PA cost PP!

After all, it's okay to be safe if it eats all of your god damn PP in the process.

[Natsu Nem]

GU is a high risk, high reward class due to the mechanics of PK, ZRA, and TMG gear. One huge problem is how GMs and the super armor of GU PAs synergize so well, removing the high risk and leaving only the reward. Non GM GUs have to dodge attacks to preserve PK and their gear in addition to not dying.

Because of GMs, GUs can exploit the super armor to negate the complete loss of TMG gear and reestablish PK while keeping 100 percent uptime where as a non GM GU would have to sacrifice uptime avoiding attacks. If a non GM GU tries to utilize the super armor in the way a GM GU does, not only will they lose PK and gear, they'll just straight out die.

[gigawuts]

GU is a high risk, high reward class due to the mechanics of PK, ZRA, and TMG gear.

ha ha good one

[Triple_S]

It's really not hard to use a notably stronger TMG and output god-tier DPS as a GU/HU without getting hit. Sure, you can't really abuse super armor, but you can just not get hit. You're gonna be using Stylish Roll anyway, aren't you?

[Coatl]

I think I can kill a banthe faster by standing in front of it and shooting versus dodging every time it tries to paw you.

[WildarmsRE5]

It's really not hard to use a notably stronger TMG and output god-tier DPS as a GU/HU without getting hit. Sure, you can't really abuse super armor, but you can just not get hit. You're gonna be using Stylish Roll anyway, aren't you?say that to YOLO Period. (do it without GM and you're dead)

thus, why many prefer to Heel Stab over Shift Period, despite Shift Period having stronger DPS.

[gigawuts]

It's really not hard to use a notably stronger TMG and output god-tier DPS as a GU/HU without getting hit. Sure, you can't really abuse super armor, but you can just not get hit. You're gonna be using Stylish Roll anyway, aren't you?

This, exactly this.

Melee is high risk, high reward (maybe). Please, go ahead and tell me deadly archer and backhand smash are lower risk than flip canceling infinity fire and messiah time whenever you need to, and recovering 14 PP every single time you flip.

[Triple_S]

I think I can kill a banthe faster by standing in front of it and shooting versus dodging every time it tries to paw you.

Probably. But that's not the point here.


And as for Shift Period, you really shouldn't use it on anything that won't flinch from it unless they're all pretty far away. I prefer it to Heel Stab if there's something to group enemies up (say, Zondeel)... and also because it's cooler :v

[WildarmsRE5]

the only thing I haven't saw flinch from Shift Period is Malmoths and Groin guarded Cyclo/Kuklo nadas. (they break after 2 - 3 hits anyway so doesn't matter)

and anything is Viable with Zondeel, Other Spin(?). Heel Stab it, Shift Period it, Diffuse Shell it, they're clustered, they're all gonna get hit.

[Alukard]

Look in the mirror. You're the only person I've ever read that's attempting to actually make some kind of justification for the validity of Shunka's current state, when it's been acknowledged even by our bonehead publishers (finally) that it is absurd and needs to be fixed.

You sure like separating people with your "you are the only person" crap while you group yourself to the majority. As if that would make you right. Nice strawman, I never mentioned wheather shunka needs a nerf or doesn't. Please don't waste my time, you're a hopeless rmt'er anyway.


Now I'm certain you've been spewing gibberish at me the entire time. What recharge? And I'm pretty sure covering distance is much more important in TAs, as well as having enough PP to continue dispatching enemies and dashing to the next spawn.

Go watch some TA videos. You mainly use AB /asagari/Quad/Penta/LA tri as movement. Like I mentioned earlier Shunka is situational, thanks for confirming. As for covering distance while also attacking, you might want to take a look at assault buster, which is certainly the better choice. Shunka is not, as you seemingly described it to be, a universal attack. Watch some recent https://www.youtube.com/user/jvhbohbhnvid/videos videos first before you go ahead and talk crap on how it would be the one useful thing in TA, because its hardly used like that. It's used for situation where one dead enemy spawns the next one in near range. That's where shunka shines. A casual like you wouldn't understand it.


Like, are you honestly arguing against a Shunka nerf? You don't use it because Kanran is better AoE, and Hatou has better range, so Shunka is pointless? Completely disregarding the damage output for the PP cost, and the utility of dashing towards your target as a melee class.


That's a whole bunch of suggestive questions paired with strawmen. What are you? Raging? Shunka is situational therefore its used, learn how to read. Also mentioned how its a gap closer. The pp costs for hatou are the same, kanran is 1pp lower. Not to mention that hatou has a higher dps, making it again more useful in TA and against most bosses.


Shunka's damage makes it better than Kanran when it can't hit enough mobs to be faster.


Thanks for telling me how situational shunka is, I had no clue.


. Shunka's PP cost makes it better than Hatou spam if it doesn't kill.


You are again confirming how situational shunka is. I think what you're talking about is the instance I mentioned earlier in this post. You kill one enemy that triggers another etc. ( i.e in the redbox in Altar TA ) or in nab1 tundra ( too lazy to describe exact location)



The problem isn't that Shunka is the absolute best choice in every situation, it's that it's pretty close along with other unique advantages. You can totally optimize by using several different PAs that squeak ahead of mindless Shunka spam, but going autopilot with retard strength is still so effective it almost doesn't matter. Or you could even argue that canceling Asagiri into repeated Kanran or Hatou is less optimal than simply using Shunka due to how much PP you'll have left over.


Nice casual thoughts. You admit that there are PA's that "squeak ahead", obviously you had to relativise this to not look like a retard after all that previous non sense, and now you cry about how little effort shunka takes to be nearly as effective. Kinda reminds me of that debate with inazuma where he was talking about how ilzonde dashing would be ok because it's as fast ( later on he said its nearly as fast) as quad'ing.

Not really feeling like going into more details after that. It's only natural that such a powerful tech as ilmegid is only viable in certain areas. You need to switch your wep once, I guess that's tough for a casual player. Even bb required more execution than that, it requires you to switch weps, shields and armors ( sometimes even mags) in mid run ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vkJ23UKcQI4 ). That guy playing in that bb vid also plays pso2 and he deals 10k dmg with poor 60 t-atk gear and a 10star from that stone exchange shop. We've already seen that a fully geared fo can go up to 16k. Do I ask for a nerf? No, I generally like being fast. The game balance is retarded anyway, it's not like nerfing shunka and s-roll is going to make a difference because with the upcoming patch we'll probably have new broken classes anyway ( speculation). All recent changes indicate in favourable changes for Fo and Ra, we'll see once the update is done. I'd like to remind you that you also need lv3 latents and affixed items as a braver ( Partizan, gunslash, katana for td, katana for ta and katana for sh aq) not to mention the benefits of having multiple attributes.
If you want to be efficient you go with whatever is the best. If you want game balance then write a mail to sega and complain about the enemy AI and all the rng elements. Sega makes massive profit by switching the "op" classes constantly, it's their business model. I swear some people think game balance means everything is equally good at anything.

[Renvalt]

I'm not like, saying your opinion is invalid as a person, but in terms of trying to add to any conversation that generally takes place here...it should be based on experience in SH (the "current" content).

Level 20 and what not means basically fuck all.


I thought your signature was out of date so you might have been level 60 already, turns out you weren't.

Oops.

And I'm going to say that you can't even be grouped with them because you're not even at the level where you get pressured into using Shunka because every other photon art's power drops in comparison with the exception of Hatou Rindou (which requires incredible positioning to use well, anyway) This happens around level ~40.

Using my signature as a means of judging my current level is a terrible way to do it. You guys of all people should know I hardly, if ever, keep that up to date due to how little I frequent this place.

In case you're wondering, I'm Level 56. And maybe I'll shove a screenshot in your face just to prove that fact, since the only thing you guys ever seem to believe without proof is what's in the signature of any particular post (then again, some people have no sigs, so I'm not sure they have much of your trust anyways).

.... Or I can just log in and troll B-20. Gods knows the place hasn't festered into a fuckfest the last time I visited.

[Zenobia]

Using my signature as a means of judging my current level is a terrible way to do it. You guys of all people should know I hardly, if ever, keep that up to date due to how little I frequent this place.

In case you're wondering, I'm Level 56. And maybe I'll shove a screenshot in your face just to prove that fact, since the only thing you guys ever seem to believe without proof is what's in the signature of any particular post (then again, some people have no sigs, so I'm not sure they have much of your trust anyways).

.... Or I can just log in and troll B-20. Gods knows the place hasn't festered into a fuckfest the last time I visited.

I love how every time you post you like to use B-20 as a crutch for all your arguments lol.

[BIG OLAF]

I love how every time you post you like to use B-20 as a crutch for all your arguments lol.

But it's Renvalt. Just let him blabber. It's fun.

[NoiseHERO]

How does one "troll" B-20?

Everytime I go there it's like one of those cowboy movies when the badguys come into town and everyone runs and hides in their homes and slams the windows shut.

[gigawuts]

Trolling B20 is like throwing water in the ocean to prank the fish.

Not only is it ineffective, but it made no sense to do it in the first place.

[Freshellent]

Pissing into an ocean of piss, etc.

[Triple_S]

Basically, UnLucky is arguing that for the large majority of PSO2 players, Shunka ends up being their choice at any given time because, while other attacks are slightly better depending on the situation, Shunka manages to be hugely viable at all times while remaining braindead easy to use. It's easy to the point that it barely makes a difference to use it in less efficient situations unless you're doing something massively retarded with it.

This is stupid and is not good balance. Regardless of if there are other balance issues in the game, it should be looked at.

Alukard is arguing, though never directly stating his stance on whether it's OP or not, that it's okay for Shunka to be as good as it is because depending on the situation it's not the best. This is only relevant at the highest level of scrutiny; for the people aiming to set TA/TD records.

This argument ignores the fact that other arts aren't nearly as universal, because it centers around maximum efficiency, something that should never be the primary balancing factor, especially not for a game like PSO2. However Alukard is still correct in that Shunka is not always the best option.



Unless you're doing something like going for fastest clear times on something, there's little reason not to just Shunka everything. It works extremely well with almost everything, to the point that even if other PAs do certain things better you might as well just Shunka anyway unless you're strapped for time because it's just that close in effectiveness for like 90% of the time spent playing. Even securing a triple TD run doesn't require that level of scrutiny (well maybe TD2 does, idk). However, if you are going for that level of efficiency, Shunka's role is much less broad. There are times to use it, and times to use something else. Nerfing Shunka would take that role away and leave a hole for something less efficient to fill, most likely. So the question becomes, "Is it okay to take away from the highest level of play if it means balancing the rest of the game?"

My thoughts is that yeah, it's alright. First off, the hardcore TA players will adapt and probably find something new to break the game with when things are buffed. Second, balancing toward a very small number of players is bad for business. Third, PSO2 isn't a game that encourages that level of play and doesn't make it particularly difficult to attain outside of RNG buttfucking you all the damn time.



One last thing: stop being ass-gobbling fucknuggets to each other. All the PSO2 experience in the world means jack shit if you're acting about as respectable as Chad Warden.

[BIG OLAF]

One last thing: stop being ass-gobbling fucknuggets to each other. All the PSO2 experience in the world means jack shit if you're acting about as respectable as Chad Warden.

You best stop taking Chad Daddy's name in vain.

[Triple_S]

You best stop taking Chad Daddy's name in vain.

Jesus fuck, you're fast.

[nathanielzor]

MOM SOMEONE ON THE INTERNET IS WRONG!!!

[gigawuts]

Shunka does like 8 things at 60-100% efficiency

6 other PAs do those 8 things at 100% efficiency

You only have 6 weapon palettes

Some of those are gonna be sacrificed by all but the spergiest of players and you all damn well know it

Shunka is the new Over End, in that it does too many things too well. OE was the best, or was almost the best, at:
DPS
volley damage
AOE (as far as melee PAs go)
flinch locking trash mobs
immediate hyper armor (the only sword PA to have hyper armor as soon as you clicked, no charge time required)
long term hyper armor (one of the longest sword animations, and it never loses hyper armor until completion)
grapple immunity
staying airborne
comboing without becoming vulnerable (The JA circle appears while you still have hyper armor)
and it could even be guard canceled after the second swing (Which WAS a good thing to do at times, contrary to what many will tell you)
damage:PP efficiency

OE wasn't OP because of its damage. OE wasn't OP for any single one of those reasons. OE was OP because it did all of that shit at once. If you opted out of using OE, you had to put about 10 specific PAs on your palette, and most only did 1-2 of those things so you had to regularly switch weapons in the middle of a fight, which was usually not practical because of weapon switch delays for us gaijins, differences in gear buildup, etc. OE was just one button, over and over.

These days OE's damage hasn't kept up with other PAs, we have other superior AOE options, we have other good hyper armor options that don't require a grapple, we have far better volley damage options, etc.

A PA's use is rated based on not just its damage, but its utility. How many things can it do? How many situations will it be useful in? How versatile are its applications?

Shunka does too many things at once. If you remove some things from its list of capabilities it could keep that damage, or it could keep that PP cost, or it could keep that hyper armor, or it could keep that perfect flinchlock timing, or etc. All of what it can do at once? Nuh uh, not unless other PAs get tweaked to keep up.

edit: You also have to be mindful of the other tools at the class's disposal. Something fighter's weapons can do can't be compared with something braver's weapons can do, because an optimum build won't have both at once. HU weapon utility on a hufi/fihu build also can't compare quite the same way to a brhu/hubr, due to differences in bonuses.

[Renvalt]

I love how every time you post you like to use B-20 as a crutch for all your arguments lol.

Have I really? If I have, it's only because you guys give it such a bad rep.


But it's Renvalt. Just let him blabber. It's fun.

Duly noted. I won't respond any more than this, just because the thought of entertaining you makes me sick.


I think I'm most curious to see whether Luther is actually collaborating with Darkers and the Falzs, or if he's simply using them as tools like everyone else.

There's obviously some kind of connection between him and Persona, and there's the matter of who the "he" Apprentice was referring to in the first Quarry story quest when the Bleu Ringahda shows up.

From what I've seen, Theodore has photon powers at the level of Claris Claes - all without using any weapon at all (at least, that's what Luther says - and when he says something like that, you should trust it somewhat).

Now why would he need to pump one Newman full of negative photons to achieve the level of the device used to revive Falz Elder? Recall that it took Gettemhalt punching Shina in the gut to get the seal to break - prior to that she had been trying to infuse her own photons manually (this doesn't work because you need a massive spike in photon levels to break a Falz seal, of which only near-lethal and/or traumatic experiences tend to give.

Most Arks aren't capable of producing an affect near the required level, which is why the Clarisa replica was needed as a conduit to achieve the necessary photon levels. Gettemhalt only figured it out after Zeno smacked him around a bit and Shina ended up not getting anywhere with the seal.

Now you're probably thinking "What does this have to do with Theodore?" The answer is that his photons are already at the level of Claris Claes without a weapon, and adding a weapon to that would make his photons spike even higher. Add that we're fighting him and wounding him, and his life would be a perfect piece of feed to get Falz out of his seal.

Oh, and there's the fact that Persona hates our interfering, and that's also one of Luther's fears (as stated by Xion).

[Shinamori]

I wonder if that rules out Persona controlling the bird Darkers...

[UnLucky]

Go watch some TA videos. You mainly use AB /asagari/Quad/Penta/LA tri as movement. Like I mentioned earlier Shunka is situational, thanks for confirming. As for covering distance while also attacking, you might want to take a look at assault buster, which is certainly the better choice. Shunka is not, as you seemingly described it to be, a universal attack. Watch some recent https://www.youtube.com/user/jvhbohbhnvid/videos videos first before you go ahead and talk crap on how it would be the one useful thing in TA, because its hardly used like that. It's used for situation where one dead enemy spawns the next one in near range. That's where shunka shines. A casual like you wouldn't understand it.
Ok, I even mentioned dashing. Do you even realize that using PAs to dash costs PP? How could you not even know this, you filthy casual? Do you even play the game? Cut the crap.

Just try and optimize for random spawns in randomly generated content, which is everywhere that isn't a TA.

You're basically repeating half of what I say as if it's some sort of argument against me. I'm not even sure what your stance is.

I've said since the start, Shunka is too good at everything all at once and needs a nerf. Not that it's the best at everything, just that it can be effectively used in every situation. If it got nerfed, you could still pull it out when it is optimal to do so: when you need to pick off single trash mobs in succession. If it got nerfed, you couldn't also use it as your number one boss killing PA as well as your AoE option as well as your gap closer.

Asagiri is only a gap closer, since its damage sucks.
Kanran is only AoE, since its damage is low.
Hatou is only for burst damage, since it's damage:PP ratio is low. And requires positioning (read: stationary target) and needs to hit multiple nearby hitboxes for max damage.

Those are each balanced PAs amazing at what they do.

Shunka is a good gap closer that you don't need to cancel since its damage is so high.
Shunka has huge single target damage, but can also hit multiple mobs.
Shunka is good for burst damage and sustain since it keeps spitting out large numbers for a long time. And follows its target the whole time, so it's super reliable.


The pp costs for hatou are the same, kanran is 1pp lower.
Are you just pretending to be an idiot? This is precisely the problem here. You went out of your way to try and prove me wrong with exact figures that show without a doubt that Shunka's PP cost is way too goddamn low.

Shunka oneshots mobs. Kanran does not. Effective PP cost for Kanran doubles or triples.
Shunka outputs way more total damage per use than Hatou. To kill the same target, repeated uses of Hatou drain your PP much faster than Shunka. You'd know that if you've ever used it before. Huhu, I love adding pointless insults to my posts that don't further my argument whatsoever.

[Renvalt]

I wonder if that rules out Persona controlling the bird Darkers...

If anything, some of the evidence would support it.

Elder was based off of the tree in Ruins, a clear reference to the Kabbalah/Sephirot/Yggdrassil (whatever you wanna call the World Tree).

Persona is wearing a mask to hide his identity, but what if he has no real identity, and thus assumes a facade to maintain his presence? Also remember that up until this point, Luther has maintained a mask of deception to fool the Arks into thinking he was helping them, when in reality they were just tools to do with as he pleased.

Theodore, on the other hand, wasn't malevolent at first. His descent into insanity was the result of a weak, cowardly mind being tempted by power to gain revenge against an eternal entity for killing the one he loves.

Theodore becoming a Falz wouldn't make sense. Luther on the other hand... him ditching his current "Persona" to reveal his true ambitions would be the kind of thing I'd expect him to pull (especially now that he can see and interact with Xion).

[Shinamori]

I thought his insanity was due to Ulc being killed in the initial Darker attack in chapter 7.

[Renvalt]

I thought his insanity was due to Ulc being killed in the initial Darker attack in chapter 7.

That's correct, but there's another element to it.

Theodore joined the Arks initially to impress Ulc because he had a crush on her (and apparently joining Arks was a cool thing to do). Ulc wanted to join Arks to keep an eye on him (since she's worried about her friend and all), however Theodore had potential whereas Ulc did not.

Yet someone made an exception for her (that someone being the only person with enough authority to overrule the Council of Six, none other than Luther himself), and she became an Arks member despite the fact she shouldn't be able to.

Theodore, however, began to realize that being an Arks was more work than he initially thought, which was why early on he tried to avoid conflict and cheese out on easy missions (like the most extreme kind of cheesy scrub casual). When Ulc joined, his morale was boosted, and he was trying harder, but then she died, and he was all like "I got stronger, but what point was there when the person I gained that power for is gone?" He gained power for the wrong reasons - instead of gaining power for his own sake, he used it selfishly as a means of acquiring Ulc's affections (when he didn't realize she cared about him already).


The same could be said of Luther, but his character's a total mystery at this point. We know that he desires the power in the Mothership (going to great lengths to force absolute obedience from even the Three Heroes to protect it), we know that said power is of Darker origin, and we know he's no longer human.

My guess: Luther desires a transformation into Falz so that his dominion over Arks becomes something more deity-like. To become the God of Arks.

Sounds cliche, but then again, Quna sounded cliche at first, only to have most of what she was doing make sense once you pieced everything together.

[Zenobia]

Have I really? If I have, it's only because you guys give it such a bad rep.

Eh? I can't remember the lats time I was there unless I spawned there or im playing with my friends who actually PLAY the game.

In your case you actually wanna go there and troll which is highly impossible. Heck they trolling you and you haven't even stepped foot in there yet.

[Renvalt]

Eh? I can't remember the lats time I was there unless I spawned there or im playing with my friends who actually PLAY the game.

In your case you actually wanna go there and troll which is highly impossible. Heck they trolling you and you haven't even stepped foot in there yet.

Has less of an effect than you'd think - especially when most (if not all) of the block's residents are AFK.

Also, I was in lunatic mode when I said what I did, so forgive me.

Either way, the point is that I can't do most of the higher end content when my friendlist is empty, I have no team, and almost all of my gear sucks ass (I ended up noticing my numbers are pretty low).

In any case, I wonder when Sega will actually give us missions and Free Fields for the areas on Oracle (AKA City/Darker Den/Mothership).

Because I honestly feel like, at this point, those areas COULD be their own thing. The fact that they aren't makes me feel a tad disappointed atm.

[Stormwalker]

Giga, usually I agree with you on balance concerns, but I think you're a little off base where GU is concerned.

There were three sets of changes that took GU from being the single worst class in the game to being one of the two strongest.

1). Reverse Tap and Satellite Aim were buffed, and ZRA range was increased.
2). Fury Stance was buffed (and GU/HU became a thing)
3). SRollJA and Heel Stab were added.

None of these things involved the flip cancellability of Elder Rebellion or Infinity Fire. Those things already existed, and GU was still trash. I know, because I mained it even back then, when it was trash.

The fact of the matter is, if Fury Stance gets nerfed, a large chunk of the current OP state of GU vanishes (because it's really GU/HU that is OP, not so much GU on its own). If Fury and SRoll JA are both nerfed, than GU's damage falls below that of other classes.

GU would still have great PP efficiency and survivability, but without the damage it goes right back to being the niche class it was before it was buffed. Truth be told? I'd be OK with that. I'd probably still main it, because I enjoy it. Sure, it'd take me two SRoll JA Heel Stabs just to kill trash, but at 20 PP I could actually live with that.

If you then take away its excellent survivability, though, it becomes an utter garbage class that even I wouldn't touch with a ten foot pole anymore.

My personal thought is this. Go with your suggestions for HU: Nerf Fury Stance. Buff Hunter weapons/PA's. Buff Fighter weapons/PA's. Do this before ANY other nerfs and see then where the classes shake out.

Make other adjustments (nerfing Shunka/SRoll JA) if they still seem necessary at that point.

Of course, that would be a rational, measured approach, which means Sega won't do it.

EDIT: It also bears mentioning that if Fury Stance is nerfed, some of the non-Shunka/Hatou katana PA's are going to need a buff as well.

[UnLucky]

Gunner is easy mode because it can cancel pretty much everything with the best defensive dodge in the game

The damage just makes it OP

[Zipzo]

2). Fury Stance was buffed (and GU/HU became a thing)
3). SRollJA and Heel Stab were added.

I just wanted to clarify here that the fury stance buff is not what brought Gunner in to the lime light. The improved Fury Stance was around for a good amount of time while Gunner was still a poopy main.

The real, true moment that GU/HU became a thing was when SRoll and Heel Stab got added. Gunner would have become a thing pre-fury stance buff if they had been added before it. Your #3 reason is pretty much the sole reason Gunners became noteworthy.

[Sanguine2009]

pretty much, gunners biggest issue was always lack of a good aoe followed by poor damage, sroll and heel stab fix both of those issues

[goldwing]

May I ask why it is Fury Stance has to be nerfed in a lot of peoples oppion? Wouldn't that be hurting us who main Hunter?

[Cyron Tanryoku]

not if they buff the hunter PAs alongside the nerf

[goldwing]

How much of a nerf\pa buff we talking here?

[GoldenFalcon]

May I ask why it is Fury Stance has to be nerfed in a lot of peoples oppion? Wouldn't that be hurting us who main Hunter?
It's not Fury Stance that has to be nerfed; It's JA bonus. Fury JA is simply too good and upsets class balance. That side of the tree gets a persistent 2x multiplier to damage.

On the Fighter tree, bonus damage can come from status effects, and low PP. These are pretty good, but the stances themselves are conditional and bosses can't be hit by status effects (for the most part) so it has fair trade-offs.

On the Braver tree... it has nothing. It caps its damage at 2 to 3 skills (and tiny gains at that). Braver really needs help.

[Coatl]

May I ask why it is Fury Stance has to be nerfed in a lot of peoples oppion? Wouldn't that be hurting us who main Hunter?

Fury stance is what hurts those who main hunter.

[UnLucky]

Hunter sub gives 220% Striking or 190% Ranged (and 120% Tech damage). All of the time with essentially no conditions (oh no, you have to JA)

Nothing else can get anywhere near that much unconditionally. Ranger can end up doing nothing at all for you if you don't meet any of the conditions. Fighter too if you're in the wrong stance and the enemy doesn't have a status effect (which bosses are completely immune to).

Pretty much every other class hovers around 140-150% general damage without harsh conditions, and maybe reaching 200% when multiple different conditions all fall into place at the same time.

Fury Stance needs a good ~30% reduction to balance it with the other classes (as in, bring it down to 150-160%). But Hunter weapons would be in a really bad way if they also ate that same penalty.

[Stormwalker]

Any nerf to the Fury tree (I should say this, rather than the stance itself) would need to be accompanied by substantial buffs to HU weapons.

The problem with HU right now is that HU's weapons and photon arts suck. And that will never be fixed with Fury in its current form, because if you fix it, HU suddenly becomes ungodly OP.

At the same time, if you nerf the Fury tree without buffing HU's weapons and photon arts, HU becomes most completely useless class this game has ever seen.

Right now, the Fury tree is a significant contributor to both GU/HU and BR/HU being overpowered (not the only contributor, but it's definitely a factor). I still think that SRoll JA and Shunka would probably need some nerfing even after adjustments to the Fury tree... but I think that a smaller nerf would do the job rather than the massive one that they seem to need in the current state of things.

On the flip side, some things right now that depend on the Fury tree for their viability (Fighter, and any katana PA not named Shunka or Hatou) will need buffing.

But mostly, the Fury tree needs to be nerfed because Hunter will never be fixed until it is.

As relates to GU, and in response to Zipzo: I'm personally of the opinion that while it was SRoll JA and Heel Stab that caused everyone to NOTICE that GU was better, GU had already been substantially improved before those things went in. Speaking as someone who was playing the class at the time, I really enjoyed the changes to Reverse Tap and Satellite Aim and ZRA, for example.

For all that SRoll JA is the change that made GU *broken*, I think Heel Stab was in a lot of ways the more important change in terms of making GU _not suck_, because it gave GU the usable gap closer that it lacked. Even without SRoll JA, just replacing Aerial Shooting in my old Aerial Shooting -> Reverse Tap -> Satellite Aim combo with Heel Stab would have made it vastly more playable.

[UnLucky]

Right after the Fury buff, when Ra/Hu was ridiculously good, people immediately thought to roll Gu/Hu to try to be the next new thing.

It really did not work, since Gu/Ra did the same damage, albeit with conditions, yet you also got WB which coupled amazingly well with CT. Also PK was shit back then, if it even existed before the Fury range nerf.

SRoll was what made Ranger less appealing as a subclass since it completely locks out Standing Snipe. Along with better PK and ZRA, there was less focus on maxing out CT+CF. Heel Stab was the last push it needed to bring it out of "only good for bosses" tier.

If all you do is reduce their damage, they'll still be really good. Maybe IF won't be as useful anymore, but AoE and boss killing will still be powerful and safe.

[Nitro Vordex]

I'm just gonna go ahead and agree with all the Fighter buff ideas. :yes:

[Coatl]

I think eventually they'll allow you to craft fighter and ranger PAs just like we can technics, and it should mix things up a bit.

[Stormwalker]

If all you do is reduce their damage, they'll still be really good. Maybe IF won't be as useful anymore, but AoE and boss killing will still be powerful and safe.

This point I don't disagree on. A damage nerf doesn't cripple the class by any means, and I agree that a damage nerf for GU (in the form of both nerfing the /HU Fury tree, and nerfing SRoll JA) is callled for. There's a difference between being powerful and being overpowered, however.

I'd like to see GU get back to the point where it seemed to be headed before SRoll JA was added - a class intended to operate at primarily close range, using multiple photon arts and relying on its evasive abilities to survive.

There's good synergy between a number of GU's PA's. Reverse Tap -> Shift Period is an excellent, even devastating combination for mobbing, but nobody uses it because SRoll JA is so strong that there's no point in comboing PA's right now.

So, by all means, nerf SRoll JA. It should be a useful tool, not something that's mandatory to use before every single PA like it is now.

I just don't think GU needs any additional nerfs beyond that. Certainly not to the the survivability features that are its stock in trade. Because if you take away both Gunner's damage and its safety, the class is worse off than it was before it was buffed.

[Zipzo]

So, by all means, nerf SRoll JA. It should be a useful tool, not something that's mandatory to use before every single PA like it is now.

I just don't think GU needs any additional nerfs beyond that. Certainly not to the the survivability features that are its stock in trade. Because if you take away both Gunner's damage and its safety, the class is worse off than it was before it was buffed.

As long as it adds any kind of damage bonus it will always be mandatory.

[Stormwalker]

As long as it adds any kind of damage bonus it will always be mandatory.

There are already situations now where I can kill a pack of enemies faster with S Roll JA Heel Stab -> Reverse Tap -> Shift Period than I can with repeated SRoll JA Heel Stabs (either charged or uncharged), simply because Reverse Tap pulls all the nearby enemies into the (point-blank) range of Shift Period's best damage. That situation is pretty rare, but it does exist, even at the current state of SRoll JA.

If the damage buff is reduced significantly, such cases will not be so rare.

EDIT: To expand on this thought... there are certain Gunner PA's which are very strong but also very difficult to use with SRoll JA. Reverse Tap, Satellite Aim, and to a lesser extent Shift Period all come to mind. If the damage bonus from SRoll JA is reduced sufficiently, the strength of these PA's will start to prevail over using SRoll JA to boost other PA's.

[WildarmsRE5]

gives S-Roll JA a 10% boost at lvl 5.

Showtime's High Time gets a 100% boost.

Showtime Gunners becomes a thing.

Combo Gunners also becomes a thing.

how about it? ._.

[Sanguine2009]

i would bump that up to 15-20% or so to make it worth the prerequisites but otherwise i like it

[final_attack]

Would love to see ShowTime got a boost in range too, so it's easier to tag mobs ._.

[WildarmsRE5]

Would love to see ShowTime got a boost in range too, so it's easier to tag mobs ._.errrr, I meant High Time (which is definitely gonna require ShowTime) will have a damage boost apparently (probably to replace the nerf over S-Roll) and not the range of the aggro generator.

this should make triple Satellite Aim combo worthy again.

[starwhisper]

Hightime is never going to be a replacement for Srolljabonus. Sroll boosts your damage at all times with enhanced just attacks.

Hightime will plain suck because we will have to land, pop that shit, jump and start comboing again. But this time all the mobs will be running to us with one thing in mind "zomg only 1 damage and he looses 20%(example number) of his power".

Please Mr Sega do not send us back to the satellite aim spam era; I know its efficient but I like having some range and mobbing abilities :')

And also reverse tap and messiah time are the worst PA's of the gunner.

[Rakurai]

Messiah Time is the best damage dealing PA against a stationary target that can be hit with all of the bullets.

Reverse Tap is really the only Gunner PA that doesn't have any especially useful applications.

[final_attack]

Um, I meant, it'll be nice to get more range for aggro generator too (along with damage boost), but, it's not that important, just loved it if it really gives more range so I can use it as some form of support (or maybe an update on ShowTime itself).

Also, loved the lesser bonus on SRollJA idea. Loved Satellite Aim spam (great finisher for Chain too), but it's very hard to use now with having to do SRollJA after every PA =="

Maybe they should make SRollJA keep activating as long as we keep doing consecutive JA after SRoll (with damage % nerf applied of course, maybe at 10% like you said) ........ So, SRoll after a PA is not very mandatory ._.

Just an opinion though. I'd like too see how it goes once the April 23rd maintenance.

[starwhisper]

Stationary targets are rare in this games, its even more rare to find a mobs who can take all the bullets comming from messiah time because you shoot at 360°.

But that is not the problem: the problem is its slowness. It is so slow that you do less damage per second than spamming elder/satellite/shift period in mobbing or boss killing.

I'm sorry to crush so many noob gunner dreams, well actually I'm not :')

[Rehal]

Stationary targets are rare in this games, its even more rare to find a mobs who can take all the bullets comming from messiah time because you shoot at 360°.

But that is not the problem: the problem is its slowness. It is so slow that you do less damage per second than spamming elder/satellite/shift period in mobbing or boss killing.

I'm sorry to crush so many noob gunner dreams, well actually I'm not :')

So Messiah Time DPS is inferior to ER AND SP regardless of whatever situation you have at hand?
http://puu.sh/89vVz.jpg

[Rien]

I like how people mention buffing hunter and fighter weapons with a fury stance nerf while forgetting how katanas would just straight out drop off the face of the universe if they weren't buffed too.

Excluding Shunka, of course, since we're trying to nerf that here.

[starwhisper]

Hey dont forget shift period! It is insane, without the sroll JA bonus you can wipe an full pack of lv70 in shAQ in two iterations, the mobs being in close range doesn't matter.
An other messiah time killer.

[Rehal]

Hey dont forget shift period! It is insane, without the sroll JA bonus you can wipe an full pack of lv70 in shAQ in two iterations, the mobs being in close range doesn't matter.
An other messiah time killer.

Yeah I forgot to mention SP.
Oh wait.
Reading2Hard.

[starwhisper]

Hey please give me an example where messiah time is the pa to go because you are quite condescending but you give no explanation, no example.

[jooozek]

shift period more like shit herder

[WildarmsRE5]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QvwogBAdIY0outdated, but works the same with any other SH bosses anyway.

[Rakurai]

Most bosses in general have periods of time where they stay still long enough to make using Messiah Time possible.

Dark Ragne gets especially wrecked by it, because after using Aerial Shooting, you're both out of range of all of its attacks and at the perfect height to Messiah Time into its weak spot. It's one of the few things that can actually do enough damage to pull aggro from it before it leaps to a tower.

[gigawuts]

Any nerf to the Fury tree (I should say this, rather than the stance itself) would need to be accompanied by substantial buffs to HU weapons.

The problem with HU right now is that HU's weapons and photon arts suck. And that will never be fixed with Fury in its current form, because if you fix it, HU suddenly becomes ungodly OP.

At the same time, if you nerf the Fury tree without buffing HU's weapons and photon arts, HU becomes most completely useless class this game has ever seen.

Right now, the Fury tree is a significant contributor to both GU/HU and BR/HU being overpowered (not the only contributor, but it's definitely a factor). I still think that SRoll JA and Shunka would probably need some nerfing even after adjustments to the Fury tree... but I think that a smaller nerf would do the job rather than the massive one that they seem to need in the current state of things.

On the flip side, some things right now that depend on the Fury tree for their viability (Fighter, and any katana PA not named Shunka or Hatou) will need buffing.

But mostly, the Fury tree needs to be nerfed because Hunter will never be fixed until it is.

As relates to GU, and in response to Zipzo: I'm personally of the opinion that while it was SRoll JA and Heel Stab that caused everyone to NOTICE that GU was better, GU had already been substantially improved before those things went in. Speaking as someone who was playing the class at the time, I really enjoyed the changes to Reverse Tap and Satellite Aim and ZRA, for example.

For all that SRoll JA is the change that made GU *broken*, I think Heel Stab was in a lot of ways the more important change in terms of making GU _not suck_, because it gave GU the usable gap closer that it lacked. Even without SRoll JA, just replacing Aerial Shooting in my old Aerial Shooting -> Reverse Tap -> Satellite Aim combo with Heel Stab would have made it vastly more playable.

I don't really have the time to break into this several page discussion (Which I'm glad you guys got into, good to see people actually talking about this stuff - and in a pretty civil way too) but I did want to touch on this.

I was one of the first, if not the first, person to point out what Fury offered GU mains. A few weeks (or months?) after the Fury Stance change I'd noticed Fury was offering as much of a bonus as WHA and SS combined, all the time, at only the cost of Weak Bullet and Killing Bonus. So I pointed it out. Within a few days suddenly people were going GU/HU. Everywhere. Instantly.

It could've been everyone noticing it independently, I might've missed people doing it before, but either way after that GU/HU became a very common thing.

That's around when I think GU/HU was "fine." It was the 6* PAs and 1-3* PA damage jumps at level 16 that made GU/HU overpowered, not SRoll specifically. You can use damage PAs and then cancel them whenever you want. You get invuln and hyper armor during Messiah Time, one of the highest damage PAs you can use. It's stupid. SRoll just made it completely and utterly insane, and should be removed entirely instead of just nerfed.

Between the hyper armor, flip cancel frames, damage, and stupid good 14 PP recovery with every single flip this gun class is better suited for melee situations than melee classes. Who gives a fuck about guarding when you can flip cancel any PA any time you want?

I like how people mention buffing hunter and fighter weapons with a fury stance nerf while forgetting how katanas would just straight out drop off the face of the universe if they weren't buffed too.

Excluding Shunka, of course, since we're trying to nerf that here.

This is intentional. Even with a 30% drop katanas would for the most part be fine. Katanas would need maybe 15% more damage, but the reasons they used to be UP have mostly been resolved (no strong katanas, no gap closers, no fast heavy hitting PAs, no hyper armor, no mid-range PAs, etc.)

That said, Average Stance is what needs a bit more oomph, and Weak Stance needs a bit more utility instead of straight damage (Mini-Weak Bullets on weak points that you hit? Weak Hit Slow? Unlocks head hitboxes as weak points for all damage types? I'd rather WHA do that last one tbh.)

[Undeadfellow]

Wasn't there something about the Braver being shittier than it is currently, something about a NERF update, for that class. Due to it's OP'ness.

[Sizustar]

Wasn't there something about the Braver being shittier than it is currently, something about a NERF update, for that class. Due to it's OP'ness.

....
*Lookis at the past...19 page*

[Coatl]

Wasn't there something about the Braver being shittier than it is currently, something about a NERF update, for that class. Due to it's OP'ness.

They're nerfing shunka. Honestly, that won't even leave a dent on Braver lol.

[WildarmsRE5]

They're nerfing shunka. Honestly, that won't even leave a dent on Braver lol.actually, it will.

well, it depends on how badly nerfed it is.

the amount of Shunka Bravers I see is too damn high.

[Coatl]

As long as the ability to turn into god for 20 seconds is accessible, along with hatou, I don't see Braver getting much worse after this update. If they get worse, it will be because FO and RA power creeping.

[Maninbluejumpsuit]

As long as the ability to turn into god for 20 seconds is accessible, along with hatou, I don't see Braver getting much worse after this update. If they get worse, it will be because FO and RA power creeping.

This.

I've been feeling fo catching up since uncharged ilbartas from elysion one-shotting mooks with no projectile travel time from a range became a thing.

[Zipzo]

This.

I've been feeling fo catching up since uncharged ilbartas from elysion one-shotting mooks with no projectile travel time from a range became a thing.

Problem is, FO is not "fixed" simply because they can make an argument for themselves spamming one single tech with one specific 11* weapon at full latent.

It's really no different than the current situation we have now with Sazan.

[Maninbluejumpsuit]

Problem is, FO is not "fixed" simply because they can make an argument for themselves spamming one single tech with one specific 11* weapon at full latent.

It's really no different than the current situation we have now with Sazan.

I know. At least they wont be eating a braver's dust as much when it comes to killing things soon enough, though.

[UnLucky]

As long as it adds any kind of damage bonus it will always be mandatory.
Not exactly. If SRoll JA was 10-20% instead of 100%, it would not even be worth using except to pop Chain Finish or pre-empting a spawn. It adds prep time to your PA when you could choose to JA directly into a PA much faster.

gives S-Roll JA a 10% boost at lvl 5.

Showtime's High Time gets a 100% boost.

Showtime Gunners becomes a thing.

Combo Gunners also becomes a thing.

how about it? ._.
SRoll would go back to being completely defensive and not even worth the SP to get the JA bonus.

Honestly, something like 40-50% would be ideal, since it gives you a good reason to spend SP on it and use it when you need a good burst of damage or sustain your PP a little better, but keeps the option for chaining PAs as a viable strategy.

High Time can't be a replacement since Show Time can only be kept up for 30s every 60s. It would make mobbing a real chore having to fist pump before any major encounter, but with a massive bonus it would be way too powerful for bosses. That, and it seems like High Time is a gradual increase over time, so the majority of the bonus will be near the end of the timer. That makes it especially cumbersome trying to sync it up with your Chain, since both are fist pumps and can wear off without you being able to really make use of them.


Stationary targets are rare in this games, its even more rare to find a mobs who can take all the bullets comming from messiah time because you shoot at 360°.

But that is not the problem: the problem is its slowness. It is so slow that you do less damage per second than spamming elder/satellite/shift period in mobbing or boss killing.

I'm sorry to crush so many noob gunner dreams, well actually I'm not :')
Did you know that Messiah Time (and Infinite Fire) shoot faster if you continue to mash the PA button? It turns them into beastly PAs with incredible DPS and PP efficiency.

I like how people mention buffing hunter and fighter weapons with a fury stance nerf while forgetting how katanas would just straight out drop off the face of the universe if they weren't buffed too.

Excluding Shunka, of course, since we're trying to nerf that here.
Honestly they'd be perfectly fine after a Shunka nerf. Tsukimi/Gekka got a rather large boost at lv16, and Hatou is really powerful if you do it right. The only problem would be Kanran if you end up needing 3-4 uses to clear mobs, but better gear and the level cap increase would make it a non-issue. Even still, it shouldn't be doing so much damage for how wide of an area it covers, and it could mean a Sakura Endo comeback.

Oh, and no amount of buff could make Hien Tsubaki good. That thing is busted at the core.

[gigawuts]

I want Aerial Advance to work when the player is in the air.

Then I want Aerial Advance 2.

Then I want SRoll JA removed.

Then I want Standing Snipe to kick in mid-PA if you stand still long enough.

Then I want mechgun headshot damage reduced to +50%, down from +100%, but this would be harder to implement so I can live without it somehow.

[UnLucky]

Couldn't you use something like Bullet Squall to get SS in the air? Someone would have mentioned it if it did, so I just assume it breaks it somewhere in the animation.

But there should be a go-to aerial SS PA if there isn't already.

[WildarmsRE5]

Not exactly. If SRoll JA was 10-20% instead of 100%, it would not even be worth using except to pop Chain Finish or pre-empting a spawn. It adds prep time to your PA when you could choose to JA directly into a PA much faster.

SRoll would go back to being completely defensive and not even worth the SP to get the JA bonus.

Honestly, something like 40-50% would be ideal, since it gives you a good reason to spend SP on it and use it when you need a good burst of damage or sustain your PP a little better, but keeps the option for chaining PAs as a viable strategy.._. 50% is still a major boost, it'll still be mandatory.

S-Roll JA shouldn't have existed at all ._.

a 20% boost is fine.

just put the rest in HighTime.

btw, I'm a Gu/Ra Gu/Hu Ra/Hu. and I still agree that S-Roll badly needs a debuff, or just remove the skill itself. the times where I can Elder + Satellite x2 exist again.

30 secs should be enough to pop a WB+Chain get it to 20 - 30, then fire Messiah.

[gigawuts]

Couldn't you use something like Bullet Squall to get SS in the air? Someone would have mentioned it if it did, so I just assume it breaks it somewhere in the animation.

But there should be a go-to aerial SS PA if there isn't already.

You could, yes, and I see that as a perk of subbing RA the same way Killing Bonus is.

Also, Elder Rebellion and Satellite Aim were the moves everyone spammed to get Standing Snipe in the air.

[UnLucky]

._. 50% is still a major boost, it'll still be mandatory.

S-Roll JA shouldn't have existed at all ._.

a 20% boost is fine.

just put the rest in HighTime.

btw, I'm a Gu/Ra Gu/Hu Ra/Hu. and I still agree that S-Roll badly needs a debuff, or just remove the skill itself. the times where I can Elder + Satellite x2 exist again.

30 secs should be enough to pop a WB+Chain get it to 20 - 30, then fire Messiah.
Something like 20% would be worthless for fast PAs like SA. Well, 100% is already bad for those, which was the problem...

But for longer PAs like HS, you've got a 1sec flip, the 1s charge, and a 2s attack. Not doing the flip means you attack 25% faster, which translates to more DPS. The flip has to give at least that much damage to be worth using offensively. And it has to give MORE than that to justify spending SP on the skill.

10% is total trash skill not worth 9 SP, 20% is maybe sometimes ok if you're already SRolling for some other reason and you have SP to spare after every other skill, and obviously 100% is way too much that it eclipses everything else. I would be totally fine with anything between 30-50%, since it's a good bonus if you need it, or a way to recoup lost DPS if you had to cancel a PA to avoid damage, but it's not so huge as to always be the optimal solution.

As for High Time, I'll admit, I just don't want a third interruptible animation that takes up room on my palette and is necessary for efficient boss killing but due to circumstances outside of my control end up completely wasted. Boss jumping away at 30+ chain, other enemy taps me from behind costing me the two seconds it takes to vanish, or another (Change-Over) code spawns with my entire arsenal on cooldown.


You could, yes, and I see that as a perk of subbing RA the same way Killing Bonus is.

Also, Elder Rebellion and Satellite Aim were the moves everyone spammed to get Standing Snipe in the air.
Oh that's right, they're completely stationary in the air. They only move you on the ground.

[Rien]

As much as I want a sakura comeback, it's just plain depressing how without a weakspot I can only hit 3.5-4ks a hit at best. Maybe it's because my 11* gear isn't top of the line 11*, but damn, at least let me output 10k total with one use!

[Coatl]

I almost forgot about Bullet Squal. Man that's a cool PA.

[gigawuts]

Sakura spam was shit and I don't miss it even a little bit. Tsuki and the other one were also annoying and too much effort for the reward, switching between palettes when JGing and shit.

IMO:
Nerf Shunka's 2nd and 3rd hits hard, maybe to 25% of what they are. Remove the second hit on the last slash. Remove hyper armor while dashing. Then just see what happens. I don't mind Shunka as a gap closer.
Make Sakura End's followup JA frames start much sooner, like Kanran's.

[WildarmsRE5]

Something like 20% would be worthless for fast PAs like SA. Well, 100% is already bad for those, which was the problem...

But for longer PAs like HS, you've got a 1sec flip, the 1s charge, and a 2s attack. Not doing the flip means you attack 25% faster, which translates to more DPS. The flip has to give at least that much damage to be worth using offensively. And it has to give MORE than that to justify spending SP on the skill.

10% is total trash skill not worth 9 SP, 20% is maybe sometimes ok if you're already SRolling for some other reason and you have SP to spare after every other skill, and obviously 100% is way too much that it eclipses everything else. I would be totally fine with anything between 30-50%, since it's a good bonus if you need it, or a way to recoup lost DPS if you had to cancel a PA to avoid damage, but it's not so huge as to always be the optimal solution.this is why S-Roll JA needs to cease existence.

because I'd still be flipping even if it is 30%, just like using a Monomate just to trigger Perfect keeper.

[Enforcer MKV]

Sakura spam was shit and I don't miss it even a little bit. Tsuki and the other one were also annoying and too much effort for the reward, switching between palettes when JGing and shit.

IMO:
Nerf Shunka's 2nd and 3rd hits hard, maybe to 25% of what they are. Remove the second hit on the last slash. Remove hyper armor while dashing. Then just see what happens. I don't mind Shunka as a gap closer.
Make Sakura End's followup JA frames start much sooner, like Kanran's.

Just dropping by to say I support this post~

Toodles! o/

[gigawuts]

Here's what they should do:

Reduce SRoll's invuln frames to less than .05 seconds

Turn SRoll Up, the first SRoll skill, into a 10 SP skill that increases the invuln frames up to .2 seconds

Then put SRoll Shot below that as a 1 SP skill, requiring 3 SP. You can't shoot during SRoll without this skill.

Then put SRoll JA below that as a 1 SP skill. SRoll JA would be a JA circle and nothing else. No bonus or anything.

[UnLucky]

I'd be ok with that. But I want SRoll's invuln to start immediately when I press the button and the shift action flip to through the PAs instead of a second dodge. Oh, and the ability to SRoll forward. I'd never use Dive again.

[gigawuts]

I'd be ok with that. But I want SRoll's invuln to start immediately when I press the button and the shift action flip to through the PAs instead of a second dodge. Oh, and the ability to SRoll forward. I'd never use Dive again.

Ok, but you can't SRoll cancel anything that you can't dodge roll cancel, and things can still hit you from the side and the back while SRolling causing you to flinch out of your SRoll and take full hits from the front too.

[Triple_S]

I'd literally never waste the points on it.

[UnLucky]

Worth it for the SRoll Shot. So much free PP regen just for dodging when you'd do it anyway!

[gigawuts]

Worth it for the SRoll Shot. So much free PP regen just for dodging when you'd do it anyway!

Also the class does half damage unless you spend 70 points on skills more beneficial to other classes than yours, and random PAs have less AOE and less damage if you don't get 1 sp skills and charge them up with damage or repeatedly flipping around with them equipped. One of the 1 SP skills takes you through Zero Guard Advance, an active skill that cuts your damage by more than half, which you'll literally never ever use and its bonus constantly wears off.

[UnLucky]

Next you're gonna say I can't build up my meters by shooting towers!

And every PA I use depletes the gauge!

But some PAs don't even get any bonus from having the skill at all!

You've gone mad! These ideas suck!

[Triple_S]

You're making Hunters cry.

Again.

[gigawuts]

Next you're gonna say I can't build up my meters by shooting towers!

And every PA I use depletes the gauge!

But some PAs don't even get any bonus from having the skill at all!

You've gone mad! These ideas suck!

I'M NOT EVEN DONE

TO BE GOOD AT 5 OTHER CLASSES YOU CAN'T EVEN GET EVERYTHING YOU NEED TO PLAY GUNNER PROPERLY

YOU NEED A DIFFERENT FULLY AFFIXED, LATENTED, AND ELEMENT GRINDED WEAPON FOR EVERY PA

THE ONLY DECENT UNITS COST 40M FOR 6 MONTHS BECAUSE OTHER CLASSES GET 2% MORE DAMAGE THAN THEIR SECOND BEST OPTION, WHILE YOUR SECOND BEST OPTION HAS TECH RESISTANCE AND CAN'T EVEN BE EQUIPPED BY MAX LEVEL CASTS UNLESS THEY HAVE TDEF ON THEIR MAGS

[Triple_S]

Aaaand now post-buff FOs from the future are sobbing, too.

Techers kicked the stool out already.

[Zipzo]

So I'm about an hour in to Monster Hunter and I have but one question...

How does a game like PSO2 even gain traction in the face of a game like this? I felt more of a win off of killing a giant ass oversized fat rabbit thing who's name I can't even pronounce than the hundreds and hundreds of crystal laser shooting dragons and then some in PSO2.

Combat is "slow" but gives a feeling of pacing as part of your strategy. Bosses feel dangerous and heavy. You take light to moderate to heavy damage pending what you let punish you, and your potion use must be observed.

WHY couldn't PSO2 be like this? Even PSO had a certain sturdiness to their bosses when approaching them at appropriate levels.

Then I remembered...

Bursts are a thing in PSO2. Think about it for a second. This game is actually BALANCED around killing things at light speed. The longer I boil this in my head, the more I begin to think that pso2 literally just isn't for me :/.

[Macman]

The whole goddamn series is like that. The best quests in PSO1 were the ones where you were mowing down dozens of Booma reskins at a time while larger enemies close in on you.

Or Phantasmal World 4 where you have the same thing but with actual threatening enemies.

[gigawuts]

PSO2 gained traction because it appeals to the lowest common denominator.

edit: Also, the question isn't how PSO2 gained traction - it's how PSO2 kept traction.

MH3U is a spectacular game that appealed to tons of people, but when you're done with the content you're done with the content. PSO2 dripfeeds it in as you go. MH3U has less dripfeed, and it's not on PCs.

[Kondibon]

PSO2 gained traction because it appeals to the lowest common denominator.

As the lowest common demoninator, I concure.

[DJcooltrainer]

A lot of people prefer fast-paced combat and/or more casual gameplay. Comparing apples to oranges, man. Sure, they're both RPG's, but their gameplay elements are quite different. PSO2 obviously gained traction because some people prefer that style of game. I don't understand what's so difficult to understand about people having different preferences.

[Kondibon]

A lot of people prefer fast-paced combat and/or more casual gameplay. Comparing apples to oranges, man. Sure, they're both RPG's, but their gameplay elements are quite different. PSO2 obviously gained traction because some people prefer that style of game. I don't understand what's so difficult to understand about people having different preferences.Your innocent idealism in the face of everyone else's Jadedness is adorable.

[gigawuts]

A lot of people prefer fast-paced combat and/or more casual gameplay. Comparing apples to oranges, man. Sure, they're both RPG's, but their gameplay elements are quite different. PSO2 obviously gained traction because some people prefer that style of game. I don't understand what's so difficult to understand about people having different preferences.

Preferences only go so far in this discussion.

Instead, other features matter more. Dressup dolls don't even exist in MH like they do in PSO2. Neither do the kind of content updates PSO2 has, nor the accessibility of being playable on even decade old PCs. Interplay with Vitas is also good, and of course there's just the several decade old name that people will see and be drawn in by, if nothing else.

A lot of things go into how a game like PSO2 or MH3U gain and keep traction. While there are differences between the game, the combat styles aren't key points. MH3U far and away beats PSO2 into the ground on that front. It's more fluid, more intuitive, more reliable, fairer, more balanced (I said more, not perfectly), etc.

[Zipzo]

The problem is PSO2 doesn't do even casual monster hunting/killing right

A boss that dies in seconds is just a large mob. Waves of enemies that fall over in less time than that amount to little more than exploding bits of data on your screen for doing close to nothing.

Lowest common denominator is one thing, but it's practically mouth breather status, the way PSO2 enemies are mechanized and engineered to literally BE killed by us.

It's almost as if the game is a big elaborate ruse of hordes of monsters keeling over in front of us over dramatically simply to make us feel better, in an attempt to addict us to that powerful feeling it gives you.

That's not appealing to anything. It's pure skinners box done shitty.

[gigawuts]

I think the real skinner box is in the update trailers and datamining.

"Finally, they're boosting x class!"

"Finally, the story looks to be getting good!"

"Finally, a cool looking area!"

"Wow, look at that new PA coming in 2 months!"

"Oh wow, check out what they found in the game files! That would really fix this class!"

[Triple_S]

MH3U's combat is fun but overrated honestly. Like I said before, it's very similar to PSO2 in that it loses it's difficulty fairly quickly so long as you keep your gear at least somewhat up to date. It has a spike at G-Rank and with certain quests, but you adapt real fast at that point.

Even PSO2 started out tough. First Ragne encounter in beta was fucking rough. Then again things were a bit stronger then.

[gigawuts]

The real limitation we faced back then was not having almost any of the good PAs we have now.

We had weaker weapons compared to enemies, slower weapons, less SP to throw around, only the 3 starter classes, none of the most powerful PAs we have now, etc.

[Zipzo]

MH3U's combat is fun but overrated honestly. Like I said before, it's very similar to PSO2 in that it loses it's difficulty fairly quickly so long as you keep your gear at least somewhat up to date. It has a spike at G-Rank and with certain quests, but you adapt real fast at that point.

Even PSO2 started out tough. First Ragne encounter in beta was fucking rough. Then again things were a bit stronger then.

It's no question that PSO2 has certainly seen better days, in it's life time, but were discussing how things are *now*, and it's a far cry from Ragne back in Hard mode (for reasons gigs mentioned).

[Boltzmann]

So I'm about an hour in to Monster Hunter and I have but one question...

How does a game like PSO2 even gain traction in the face of a game like this?
Have you ever looked at the characters in Monster Hunter? The armor designs? They do fit the setting well, but they are still fugly as hell.
PSO2 is also really dynamic with the emergency codes, urgent quests, MPA areas and all. In MH(the few titles I played at least) you'll soon find yourself walking on a tight grinding schedule because the maps, and by extension gathering spots, are mostly static and the monsters fly mostly to the same areas and few unexpected things ever happen.


I felt more of a win off of killing a giant ass oversized fat rabbit thing who's name I can't even pronounce than the hundreds and hundreds of crystal laser shooting dragons and then some in PSO2.
Worry not, soon you'll be mowing down Rathalos in heaps looking for plates and all that feeling stuff will go away.

[Zipzo]

Dude, I played PSO.

Repetitious-ness is far from my criticisms of PSO2, nor will it be when I inevitably experience it in MH.

[Stormwalker]

Giga, every time you have talked about nerfing GU's invulnerability, I have found myself asking why you are so determined to turn Gunner into Hunter, but now with these last posts it seems you're sufficiently aware of it to make fun of the idea, so I guess I'll ask it out loud.

Hunter is broken. Gunner is overpowered. We know these things. But nerfing Gunner into oblivion is not going to fix Hunter, it's just going to make Gunner suck (again).

Look... I main Gunner because I solo a lot. I enjoy soloing, and given the way this game is designed to screw over people who solo by forcing us to either fail quests or else spend a small fortune on Scape Dolls for any small mistake, Gunner is a Godsend. I'm Ok with a nerf to the damage. Hell, I'm all in favor of nerfing SRoll JA. But if GU's invulnerability is nerfed, it loses all value to me. I know I'm not the only person who plays the class for these reasons.

If GU's invuln is nerfed, what do you gut next? Daggers' parry, which is easily the second strongest defensive ability in the game?

[Remz69]

Giga, every time you have talked about nerfing GU's invulnerability, I have found myself asking why you are so determined to turn Gunner into Hunter, but now with these last posts it seems you're sufficiently aware of it to make fun of the idea, so I guess I'll ask it out loud.

Hunter is broken. Gunner is overpowered. We know these things. But nerfing Gunner into oblivion is not going to fix Hunter, it's just going to make Gunner suck (again).

Look... I main Gunner because I solo a lot. I enjoy soloing, and given the way this game is designed to screw over people who solo by forcing us to either fail quests or else spend a small fortune on Scape Dolls for any small mistake, Gunner is a Godsend. I'm Ok with a nerf to the damage. Hell, I'm all in favor of nerfing SRoll JA. But if GU's invulnerability is nerfed, it loses all value to me. I know I'm not the only person who plays the class for these reasons.

If GU's invuln is nerfed, what do you gut next? Daggers' parry, which is easily the second strongest defensive ability in the game?

he doesn't want to make GU worthless, it's just plain stupid that Gu plays melee better than melee classes (Br excluded)

[Triple_S]

Zero Range Advance is kinda dumb. Maybe rework Zero Range skills into something else. Maybe a focus on aerial play, or more bonuses for Perfect Keeper?

[Stormwalker]

he doesn't want to make GU worthless, it's just plain stupid that Gu plays melee better than melee classes (Br excluded)

Speaking as someone who does have 65 Fighter and 65 Hunter (and two alts with 55 Fighter, also), I don't disagree here. But the answer isn't to ruin Gunner, it's to fix the problems with Hunter and Fighter.

And again, I am all in favor of nerfing Gunner's damage. And Braver's, too.

[Mattykins]

I know a better way to nerf GU :V

Erase Guld Milla from existence

[Cyron Tanryoku]

But there are plenty of better TMGs out there

What would getting rid of that do

[Xaeris]

That actually does hit on part of what's wrong with Gunner; how easy it is to achieve the numbers we're hitting. Even when we play superbly, we probably shouldn't be racking up the raw numbers that Gunner does now, but I think there's a significant problem with how little effort it takes as well. Gunner's skill tree is potentially set up to make it a high skill/high reward operation with Zero Range, Perfect Keeper, Chain Trigger and soon, High Time. Those are all multipliers with non trivial conditions and deserving of high efficacy when met. But then we have the Guld Milla which lets any nub waltz up to the enemy's nose without fear (I was tanking Lv 70, 20+ risk Falz Hunars yesterday; never once felt threatened), on top of Fury Stance and S-Roll JA which are activated by trivial conditions and reward higher multipliers than anything else and idiotproof PAs that are easy as hell to operate.

Compare to when RA/FI was at the top of the heap. Cluster Bullet had to be aimed in TPS mode, Homing Emission was not trivial to use at the level that made it awesome, and of course, there were Brave and Wise Stance to consider. That's what I'm talking about. I can make my peace with a class being powerful, even overwhelmingly so. It's when it takes no effort that I feel there's a problem.

[Remz69]

Speaking as someone who does have 65 Fighter and 65 Hunter (and two alts with 55 Fighter, also), I don't disagree here. But the answer isn't to ruin Gunner, it's to fix the problems with Hunter and Fighter.

And again, I am all in favor of nerfing Gunner's damage. And Braver's, too.

i have 1k hours as fighter,

we don't need more power creep
we're not in the case of Fi and Hu not doing it well and Gu doing it fine
we're in the case of Fi and Hu not doing it well enough and Gu doing it way better than it should

[gigawuts]

i have 1k hours as fighter,

we don't need more power creep
we're not in the case of Fi and Hu not doing it well and Gu doing it fine
we're in the case of Fi and Hu not doing it well enough and Gu doing it way better than it should

>6,000 hours, 65 HU, 65 FI, 65 RA, 65 GU, 65 FO, 65 TE, and 65 BR here, all played extensively (RA played the least, FI played the most over time, GU played the most as of late)

Remz here nailed it

[Dnd]

I'm pretty sure im the only one around here who finds fighters balanced, sure they don't have ease of dps application like s-roll and shunka, but they really are not as far behind the dps as people like to make out...

[LonelyGaruga]

MH3U's combat is fun but overrated honestly. Like I said before, it's very similar to PSO2 in that it loses it's difficulty fairly quickly so long as you keep your gear at least somewhat up to date. It has a spike at G-Rank and with certain quests, but you adapt real fast at that point.

Highly subjective. Funny thing is, MH3U is considered one of the easiest MH games. Not the easiest, but it's not anywhere near as difficult as others. I still regard it as the best gameplay-wise (discounting MH4 because of the 3DS region lock and lack of NA release), but to compare a game that's been steadily descending on difficulty for almost a decade to PSO2's exceptionally easy content is simply unfair. The fact that MH3U even has content that can warrant being referred to as a difficulty spike says miles for it when you contrast with PSO2.

Still, and this bugs me, why the constant comparisons between PSO2 and MH? Even TVTropes has some comments about Fang/Snow pair behaving like some MH monsters (they are so far and beyond anything in MH in terms of aggression that I absolutely cannot see any similarities beyond minor details). PSO2 is hardly anywhere similar to it, so I completely fail to understand why both positive and negative comparisons get drawn constantly to it. I've been playing PSO2 almost exclusively since I began, and I still have more playtime between a couple of MH games than I do PSO2 (estimate at about 3000 hours for MH, 2000 for PSO2), so it's not a matter of ignorance about the games. And I'm not saying that there are absolutely no similarities, but they are absolutely different animals, and there has to be other games that would be better comparisons for PSO2, because MH and PSO2 don't compare well with each other at all.

Now, mind you, I did feel some similarities in early game PSO2 when I started it, but those similarities completely disintegrated after getting a better understanding of how the game works. So I'm expecting most people drawing the comparisons aren't especially familiar with both PSO2 and the MH franchise, but at the same time, if there are, then I'd like to hear why these comparisons are drawn.

[gigawuts]

I'm pretty sure im the only one around here who finds fighters balanced, sure they don't have ease of dps application like s-roll and shunka, but they really are not as far behind the dps as people like to make out...

Assuming, just for the sake of argument, that the numbers on the screen are comparable 1 on 1, fighter is lacking in mobility, cancel frames, invuln frames, hyper armor, PP efficiency, and range on the level that GU and BR offer.

DPS alone does not a class make.

edit:

Highly subjective. Funny thing is, MH3U is considered one of the easiest MH games. Not the easiest, but it's not anywhere near as difficult as others. I still regard it as the best gameplay-wise (discounting MH4 because of the 3DS region lock and lack of NA release), but to compare a game that's been steadily descending on difficulty for almost a decade to PSO2's exceptionally easy content is simply unfair. The fact that MH3U even has content that can warrant being referred to as a difficulty spike says miles for it when you contrast with PSO2.

Still, and this bugs me, why the constant comparisons between PSO2 and MH? Even TVTropes has some comments about Fang/Snow pair behaving like some MH monsters (they are so far and beyond anything in MH in terms of aggression that I absolutely cannot see any similarities beyond minor details). PSO2 is hardly anywhere similar to it, so I completely fail to understand why both positive and negative comparisons get drawn constantly to it. I've been playing PSO2 almost exclusively since I began, and I still have more playtime between a couple of MH games than I do PSO2 (estimate at about 3000 hours for MH, 2000 for PSO2), so it's not a matter of ignorance about the games. And I'm not saying that there are absolutely no similarities, but they are absolutely different animals, and there has to be other games that would be better comparisons for PSO2, because MH and PSO2 don't compare well with each other at all.

Name me all of the other loot-driven third person ARPGs where you fight large monsters with a half dozen or more different kinds of swords that offer different types of attacks, dodges with iframes, guarding, etc. in a bunch of environments that have been successful in the west and aren't exclusive to playstation (and also aren't dark souls because seriously now, PSO2 can be tedious but it's not that tedious).