Wow, just played this game and....... [Archive]

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DA_SHIZZLE_IG

Apr 20, 2014, 07:09 AM

It looks like a revamp of pso version 2 on sega dreamcast with a few added bells and whistles. Man, all I got to say is we really took PSU for granted!! This game is a huge downgrade from PSU. This game would have been great if it would have came out after PSO episode 1&2 on gamecube. This game is truly a "PSO" sequel. I think I see why this didn't come out on consoles this time around. I played this on my little brothers P.C for like an hour and fell asleep. This game just doesn't suck me in at all like the others did. There's like nothing I want to check out, play around with, or rares I want to find(if you know what I mean). Playing this game only made me think about all the stuff that PSU had and this game doesn't.

I didn't get this game because I refuse to play games on the P.C or play japanese versions of games. After PSU(they sold us a beta version at full price lol) & psu aoti on playstation 2. I couldn't wait for the next game because PSU showed us growth and how far this game could go. So I waited for a new PSO like everyone else. It's crazy to me that this game hasn't even hit the U.S yet. I haven't checked for this game in like a year 1/2. Now I see that it hasn't even came to america yet. The main problem we all had with PSU/PSU AOTI is that they released content slow as hell and barley added anything when thy did. I think they shut down the servers before they even released the final highest ranked stuff. Like most smart players, we saw that it was a sinking ship, quit early, and saved our money lol. PSU was huge with better everything from PSO. But it seems like they just gave up as time went on and just focused on their japanese version. Even on the japanese version they were being lazy. Hell, even this site gave up and stopped updating the item section for PSU lol!!!.

lol something is not right. As a long time pso fan(99 - 09) Is it just me or does sega seem like they are not really caring about this series anymore? Like I said they announced this game a long time ago and it took forever to come out. It don't seem like it will be coming to america anytime soon which is strange! This site looks dead as hell too, a shell of it's former self. I used to come to this site and it would be overflowing with people and threads. Sometimes it would be so much traffic the site would shut down for a few minutes.

I hope they are planing a sequel to PSU for the next gen consoles. PSU had sooo much potential but they only used half of it. It seems to me like PSO 2 is gonna be their last game though.

Agree?
Disagree?
Is PSO 2 is better than all of them to you?

Shots out to anybody who remembers me or my clan "InFaMoUs GaMeRz"

fay

Apr 20, 2014, 07:15 AM

Z-0

Apr 20, 2014, 07:17 AM

PSO2 has a much better engine and gameplay mechanics than all the past Phantasy Stars, but all the past Phantasy Star games were just designed so much better, especially in that there was much more to do.

WildarmsRE5

Apr 20, 2014, 07:32 AM

the improved battle system is what got me over PSU.

it's certainly much more fluid than PSU's "repeat Photon Arts till enemy dies"

ran out of PP? screw normal attacks, imma just use a PP charger.

DA_SHIZZLE_IG

Apr 20, 2014, 07:54 AM

You know, I actually 'like' that it's PSO2 rather than PSU2. PSU was fun to play but damn, it was so much worse than every other Phantasy Star game out there, personally.

EDIT: I will also say that I'm going off PSO2 as well however. I've been considering going back to PSO1 again.
I remember that is what everybody was saying about PSU at first. But when AOTI dropped I noticed I didn't hear that anymore. Now that I look back on PSU, I realized the true issue was we just was having a hard time with the drastic change. People(including myself) were saying they should have just kept stuff the way it was and put it on PSU's engine/world. Our memories of PSO back when it was a fresh new game. Was the main issue stopping us from fully appreciating how great PSU actually was(which faded away later on). Besides that, the only true problem was all the content and huge azz open world that they barley even tapped into. On PSU I remember doors being locked and sections being cut off for over a "YEAR". Constantly missing out on updates and rares that the japanese got, etc etc. They were milking the hell out of that game lol. There was stuff that they just left out of the game that they showed us in previews before the game dropped. LIKE VEHICLES and riding on animals. Oh yeah, signing up to play online was a b**ch too! It was kinda complicated lol.

PSU had sooo much stuff to play around with. It took people like a month just to get the hang of things. You would sit up for like an hour just customizing your character or making up your room. PSO 2 has like no set up or structure. It's like I'm looking for more, this game is a step back.

PSO2 has a much better engine and gameplay mechanics than all the past Phantasy Stars, but all the past Phantasy Star games were just designed so much better, especially in that there was much more to do.
I agree with you on the game play but not the engine. I guess if you like the old school setup better I could see why.

the improved battle system is what got me over PSU.

it's certainly much more fluid than PSU's "repeat Photon Arts till enemy dies"

ran out of PP? screw normal attacks, imma just use a PP charger.
Yo, I think the main thing that got us all was the ability to jump and mix up combos. I'm going to be honest though, all of those previews were misleading as hell. It made it seem like this game was gonaa be what we all wanted(PSO on the PSU engine with added stuff). Instead all they did was take episode 1&2's graphics, blue burst game play, added a jump button and a combo system. This game Is just a downgrade from PSU and an upgrade to blue burst. I guess I'm just expecting this game to be so great since it's like the what.......6th, 7th, or 8th game in the series. Or am I just getting old and growing out of this game lol.

WildarmsRE5

Apr 20, 2014, 08:10 AM

[SPOILER-BOX]http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m2j323N5XM1qzqnxxo1_500.gif[/SPOILER-BOX]

[SPOILER-BOX]http://x2.fjcdn.com/thumbnails/comments/I+m+out+_8c9cf78d3c3f5cbcaf0bcd1939ebf924.gif[/SPOILER-BOX]

Hobu

Apr 20, 2014, 08:12 AM

This game really reminds me of the Phantasy Star for the PSP. Circular lobby, shops, client orders, and huge freaking monsters. And in Multiplayer too!

The PA system is different though. Other than that, I'm having a good time!

UnLucky

Apr 20, 2014, 08:20 AM

It's pretty funny (read: obvious troll thread) how PSO2 is more like PSU than PSO.

The part about refusing to play a PC game and hoping for a true PSU sequel on console is the perfect touch.

I hope this goes on for pages full of posts just as funny as the first.

Lumpen Thingy

Apr 20, 2014, 08:22 AM

I played PSU for almost 11,000 hours and yes that was along time but you know what? I'd rather eat dog shit then go back to that game after playing PSO2. Hell I'd rather play PSO or the old PS games over that piece of fucking shit game. PSU was the worst in the online series and no dedicated servers still after years of shutdown pretty much prove this.

Taters

Apr 20, 2014, 09:10 AM

After playing PSO2, I can not even play any other MMORPG. The combat system is so unique and any game where I have to sit around spamming the same button until the enemy dies bores me to tears.
There were things about PSU and PSO that were better, like that hunting on PSO was easier and more exciting thanks to a large amount of quests with set enemy spawns. PSO2 only has TAs, and those are never going to be used for hunting. There's just a huge lack of quests right now, which takes away from the game, leaving players to just sit around AFKing until an EQ comes. It's ridiculous how many players there are that hardly actually play the game anymore. The biggest complaint about the game for me is that the Technique system sucks. It's nice that Lv. 16 discs actually drop as opposed to Lv. 30 discs in PSO, but nothing changes at all besides numbers. They're not balanced at all, so a lot of Techs just go completely unused. Overall, FO and TE are downgrades from both games.

but
PSO2 is free!

SammyKiller

Apr 20, 2014, 09:12 AM

Daiyousei

Apr 20, 2014, 09:19 AM

I missed out a lot on this forum because I never knew about this site until PSO2 came out.

BIG OLAF

Apr 20, 2014, 09:20 AM

Yo, really old member here (2006?) good seeing some IGz around!

I don't know if I'd call 2006 "really old"; I see some 2001-2003 members still bopping around.

fay

Apr 20, 2014, 09:22 AM

I'm just going to be honest here. The thing that makes PSO1 much better is that I could go into a map and actually be killed. I have a level 164 on the Gamcube version. Have 3 other friends around that level as well and you know what, we go into the Seabed on Episode 2 and still get our ass handed to us.
PSU and PSO just has no challenge in it at all.

Then we have to factor in rare enemies.
PSO1 response: OMFG!!!1! a hildtorr!!! Must somehow kill it before it kills me in hopes that I get that thing I've been searching for!
PSO2 response: Yey a rare enemy that won't drop me anything, and even if it does it's probably worthless. Oh look a Rappy! Fcuk sake. Those are just as common as normal enemies.
PSU response: Got a rare route! woo, now I might get that worthless item!

Also a 2006 member haha

SammyKiller

Apr 20, 2014, 09:23 AM

I don't know if I'd call 2006 "really old"; I see some 2001-2003 members still bopping around.

8 years are still a lot of time in this world we live in.

jooozek

Apr 20, 2014, 09:26 AM

and then someone tells you that the producer plans to keep the game going for 10 years :lol:

Daiyousei

Apr 20, 2014, 09:34 AM

8 years are still a lot of time in this world we live in.

"Cause no one's going to be the same" -World with me

Zipzo

Apr 20, 2014, 09:51 AM

Wow guy, I'm sure in your sub-total amount of less than an hour that you tried out the game, you've definitely managed to tell us all something we've never heard about PSO2 before from others of your similar experience. Even better, it's educated and unbiased/raw experience!

Infamous Gamerz were (and always will be) VEGA toting scrubs. For those uninitiated VEGA was basically the "B-20" ship on GC PSO, who's only proud declarence was that of NuGz who helped and supported cheating the game to death.

To the TC, your OP is filled with inaccurate and opinion-based nonsense of someone with zero experience playing the game.

btw-Niji

Apr 20, 2014, 09:55 AM

Go away, Zitzo.

Alukard

Apr 20, 2014, 09:56 AM

Your location goes up par with your way of thinking, you are clearly delusional and living in the past, grow up.

Aren't you from puerto rico? Arelh says hello.

It's cute that you came to aid your friend, it still won't change the fact that we are comparing the past ps-games with the current and therefore "living in the past" is nothing but a meaningless ad hominem. Judging from zyn's last attempt in getting records on bb simply indicates that he had a poor understanding of the mechanics of said game. He wasn't able to get a single record and got easily outclassed. His statement about mechanics is nothing but undefined and narrow. He clearly lacks the ability to judge which game has the "better mechanics".

You didn't bring up a single arguement, your whole post is nothing but a personal attack. Grow up, please.

Pneuma

Apr 20, 2014, 11:49 AM

Personally this is my rating for the PSO games from Best to least that I have played...

PSO:BB, PSO2, PS:Portable 1 and 2, and then PSU:AOI simply because I never got the real game due to subscription based gameplay

Zysets

Apr 20, 2014, 12:07 PM

I liked PSU a lot, if it wasn't obvious with my PSO2 character looking like Karen, and my forum icon, but gameplay wise, I think PSO2 is much more superior. I'd rank them like this, PSO>PSO2>PS:P2>PSU. I enjoy all the games for what they are, and I still go back to play offline PSU, but it's not the best. Besides that I prefer the original PSO over PSO2 mostly because PSO didn't have the whole "Waifu Sim" to distract me and make me obsessed with my character's looks, not that it's bad, I love that, but I assume people understand what I mean.

Endler

Apr 20, 2014, 12:19 PM

I really liked PSU, and the PSP offshoots as well. But looking back at it now, the game was just cakewalk easy and not worth the mandatory sub fee. PSO was far more challenging, and overall more engaging than PSU ever was. It's funny to me when people complain how easy PSO2 is when PSU had things like instantly usable mates - even while being knocked down - easy access to scape dolls, just about everyone being able to shifta/deband/resta themselves, etc. Not to mention PAs that hit multiple parts of bosses and instantly refillable PP via chargers. Rare units that made you basically invincible if you managed to get them. Being able to out-level the highest difficulty by quite a bit. The list goes on.

One thing is undeniably better about PSU, though. The music in those games is far, far better than any of the crap in PSO2. I'm still waiting for a Pioneer 2 music remix, Sega.

Cyron Tanryoku

Apr 20, 2014, 12:26 PM

pso2 is lackluster

but so were the other games

so im going to assume this entire series is lackluster

jooozek

Apr 20, 2014, 12:28 PM

til consumable animations make a game hard

Coatl

Apr 20, 2014, 12:39 PM

pso2 is lackluster

but so were the other games

so im going to assume this entire series is lackluster

Super burn. But probably an accurate statement.

The Walrus

Apr 20, 2014, 12:44 PM

Original PSO was perfect and y'all know it :I

Zysets

Apr 20, 2014, 12:48 PM

One thing is undeniably better about PSU, though. The music in those games is far, far better than any of the crap in PSO2..

Oh man those opening songs are forever chiseled into my head. I loved the opening music for the PSU games so much.

9898

Apr 20, 2014, 12:58 PM

I guess you are the only one qualified for analysis of Phantasy Star titles, oh great master of video games. Shall we rename the website Alukard-world?

How is setting records in a prior title indicative of anything? How does that have anything to do with this discussion? Your posts are nothing but personal attacks. Grow up, please.

i don't think many people really understood pso1 or psu from a very intimate ta standpoint so a great deal of the nuance in what makes these games so good is lost on most people. that's not elitist but a fact since a completely different perspective on the game is lost on the greater audience of the game. setting and keeping records in an older, more complex game with a more mature meta is indicative of a deeper understanding of the game and ability to min/max effectively.

quantitatively speaking i can't measure someone's enjoyment of a game or comment on what they feel about it, but things like complexity or how a game works can be concisely stated and digested; implemented in planning. he's commenting on things that are facts here, and he never once said that he had the only valid analysis of pso/psu/pso2 gameplay. he only said that due to someone not grasping the basics of a game they can't understand higher level play.

in the end i can't tell anyone them LIKING a game is invalid, but i can point out why individual reasons may be shaky when put in perspective. even if those reasons are true it's not as if their enjoyment was spoiled.

Esofor

Apr 20, 2014, 01:08 PM

get bent

infiniteeverlasting

Apr 20, 2014, 01:13 PM

Go away, Zitzo.

o shit seriously? is this going to be another drama episode? please, go on
http://persephonemagazine.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/gw-itcrowdmosspopcorn.gif

Alukard

Apr 20, 2014, 01:41 PM

9898 stated everything needed to be said. Whether you like pso2, psu or pso more is totally up to you. It requires more than a half-assed claim about gameplay mechanics though. You have to separate between a objective statement and a personal decision. Especially if you failed to provide such knowledge in the past (How did ma1c 2p pb and mu3 no pb go?) and even quit as a consequence of it.

btw-Niji

Apr 20, 2014, 01:48 PM

o shit seriously? is this going to be another drama episode? please, go on
http://persephonemagazine.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/gw-itcrowdmosspopcorn.gif
If you're Zitzo's friend then you need to seriously tell him to behave. The way he acts on this forum is very unacceptable.

Zipzo

Apr 20, 2014, 01:53 PM

Actually I think it's more accurate to say that nobody here listens to you or 9421 because you both never have anything useful or even informative to add aside from how good the two of you supposedly are (used to be), which totally does a whole lot (as in nobody gives a shit, much less believes the tripe).

Gama

Apr 20, 2014, 02:07 PM

ok.

PSO v1 was fun but eventually needed more content

PSO v2 just had more content

PSO GC "MORE FREAKING CONTENT OMGGGGG"

PSO CARD "OMFG something card players who like pso will anjoy! "i didnt"

PSOBB AWWWMYYYYGOAAAD MORE CONTENT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

but aside from card for obvious reasons the mechanics did not evolve.

why? i guess it wasnt needed at that time.

PSU -> OMFG A PSO sequel!!!!!!

PSU aoti -> OMFG PSO content!!!!!

ps0 - OMFG PSO portable!

PSO2 OMFG its pso!!!!!!

but it isnt is it?

why? because nostalgia works like that.

pso2 is a shiny perfect clean version os pso, pso was much darker.

pso was inside the cyberpunk genre, pso2 is on the sci fi genre.

thats pretty much "in an artistic view" what pso2 inherited from PSU.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

i enjoyed all 3 versions "i miss slicers from psu" but i must say the original pso series were more enjoyable due to their simplicity, psu and pso2 are way more complicated and rely on frustration to make money.

infiniteeverlasting

Apr 20, 2014, 02:21 PM

If you're Zitzo's friend then you need to seriously tell him to behave. The way he acts on this forum is very unacceptable.

nope, i side with no one here. But why even respond if you think someone is acting rudely? if you just ignore him he's probably just going to stop. :-?

bronskya

Apr 20, 2014, 02:22 PM

in general psu had a larger space to explore i felt open and free with the game. I played it alot and i loved how much weapons and things i could choose from, where as pso2 its so compacted in the ship and little amounts of quests sucks i loved psu just because i could play a mmorpg on the console which was interesting enough, even though they delayed shit for us in america it was still fun because they kept giving us events and new shit eventually. I enjoyed the game and if they make a sequel to the first in the new consoles i might juust jizz my pants.

Shadowth117

Apr 20, 2014, 02:27 PM

i enjoyed all 3 versions "i miss slicers from psu" but i must say the original pso series were more enjoyable due to their simplicity, psu and pso2 are way more complicated and rely on frustration to make money.

Uh.... PSU did NOT rely on frustration to make money. In PSU, you could run through a mission, have a reasonable chance at getting some decent materials to sell, have a pretty reasonable chance at okay stuff to vendor, and the end drops were the best things in the game until very late in its life. Even then, they were still very good most of the time which made clearing missions fast important.

That's not even talking about missions like Ohtori which let you just farm for AMP, a currency you could trade in for valuable materials, which was guaranteed after every run. For a long time, this mission also had very worthwhile drops too on top of that, should you be lucky enough to get them. And of course, since enemies aren't randomly spawning, this relied a lot on doing the mission as many times as possible which in turn gave meaning to clearing them as fast as possible.

You can bring up fodder farming as a parallel to material farming although its nowhere near the same level. But nothing in PSO2 has worthwhile end drops (OMG, WORTHLESS PSP2 INFECTED AURA FROM ABDUCTION!) and there's no guaranteed source of money from continuously farming something like with AMP.

Edit: Not to mention everything vendors to absolute crap in this compared to PSU. Say what you want about the beginning of PSO2's life with vendoring, but that certainly doesn't happen now.

Skyly HUmar

Apr 20, 2014, 02:33 PM

I just think pso2 was designed alot worse than the other games in the series, theres next to no content by comparison, drops suck, grinding can be even more annoying than psu, the effort:reward ratio is beyond hopeless because if you do manage to save up/hunt for an item you want and upgrade it there will probably be something better or an easier method of obtaining said item will come within a short amount of time and pretty much slap you in the face for all the time and work you put into getting said item.

Kamekur

Apr 20, 2014, 02:38 PM

You didn't bring up a single arguement, your whole post is nothing but a personal attack. Grow up, please.

Judging from zyn's last attempt in getting records on bb simply indicates that he had a poor understanding of the mechanics of said game. He wasn't able to get a single record and got easily outclassed. His statement about mechanics is nothing but undefined and narrow. He clearly lacks the ability to judge which game has the "better mechanics".

Pffffffffttttt :lol: . Stopped reading here. *flies away* .

yoshiblue

Apr 20, 2014, 02:44 PM

and then someone tells you that the producer plans to keep the game going for 10 years :lol:

Plenty of time to get new directors, script writers and designers. Next thing you know, they will be revamping the earlier cutscenes to match a new direction taken years from now.

Shadowth117

Apr 20, 2014, 02:57 PM

Plenty of time to get new directors, script writers and designers. Next thing you know, they will be revamping the earlier cutscenes to match a new direction taken years from now.

Oh god, it would be the Portal ending all over.

Jaqlou Swig KING

Apr 20, 2014, 03:00 PM

Alfa Systems should have shown them how to make a good PS game. And yes, I'm implying that all past PS games were bad to mediocre, but tolerated because Sci Fi online RPG>>>generic Old world MMORPG.

INFINITY PSGOAT

Alukard

Apr 20, 2014, 03:06 PM

Pffffffffttttt :lol: . Stopped reading here. *flies away* .

Just that everything I said was reasoned and based on facts. Why don't you ask him yourself? It's smart of him not to reply to that.

[SPOILER-BOX]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rfDa8kTkijI vs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xcjV69r-e6g Merely did that run to beat them, we did a better run at a later point https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8cqmdD7XiKc .
His TA-partner told me that "zyn says ract is better in 2p ma1c".That quote says it all. He never understood risk-reward, dmc, combo kills, combo speed differences etc. Overall a poor understanding. If you can't follow my reasoning then it's most likely because of your poor understanding aswell. As mentioned earlier, TA is an objective way to compete and display your knowledge about gameplay mechanics, so I linked the vids.

He stopped playing after that. Took only a single run to break his will to play that game.
[/SPOILER-BOX]

Try flying off a bridge please :)

9898

Apr 20, 2014, 03:11 PM

Uh.... PSU did NOT rely on frustration to make money. In PSU, you could run through a mission, have a reasonable chance at getting some decent materials to sell, have a pretty reasonable chance at okay stuff to vendor, and the end drops were the best things in the game until very late in its life. Even then, they were still very good most of the time which made clearing missions fast important.

That's not even talking about missions like Ohtori which let you just farm for AMP, a currency you could trade in for valuable materials, which was guaranteed after every run. For a long time, this mission also had very worthwhile drops too on top of that, should you be lucky enough to get them. And of course, since enemies aren't randomly spawning, this relied a lot on doing the mission as many times as possible which in turn gave meaning to clearing them as fast as possible.

You can bring up fodder farming as a parallel to material farming although its nowhere near the same level. But nothing in PSO2 has worthwhile end drops (OMG, WORTHLESS PSP2 INFECTED AURA FROM ABDUCTION!) and there's no guaranteed source of money from continuously farming something like with AMP.

Edit: Not to mention everything vendors to absolute crap in this compared to PSU. Say what you want about the beginning of PSO2's life with vendoring, but that certainly doesn't happen now.

these points are actually pretty good and underline why it should have been a subscription based game. really it's just an excuse for them to nickel and dime us for an uneven playing field.

the primary difference (asides from crafting) between pso2 and psu is that in psu there is a direct correlation between time spent and material/exp/skills/items/whatever gained. in pso2 this is laughable/nonexistent in some scenarios and the disparity gets even more ridiculous when compared with pay.

ShinMaruku

Apr 20, 2014, 04:00 PM

Plenty of time to get new directors, script writers and designers. Next thing you know, they will be revamping the earlier cutscenes to match a new direction taken years from now.

While Sega has Square Enix's money I don't think they have Square Enix's balls.

Zysets

Apr 20, 2014, 04:10 PM

A thread about opinions will always have drama.

Opinions opinions.

pkemr4

Apr 20, 2014, 07:48 PM

Muh Ideals

Krimson

Apr 20, 2014, 08:10 PM

I played Psu way back on ps2 and I liked it I was a cast and I ran around with a rifle I played through it multiple times but not online since couldn't pay for it.

I happened on Pso2 because a friend was playing it and It is a little boring due to the only things to do is lv up, farm rares and farm meseta [That's what I feel it is basically] but it has the potential to be a very good game as for 10 years of support Idt I will stay interested in games for that long. Also you have to keep the game alive and interested to support 10 years bread crumbing you player base with small content updates can turn some away as this thread is kinda showing. > v <

Nitro Vordex

Apr 20, 2014, 09:54 PM

http://oism.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/rose-tinted-glasses.jpg

You look fabulous, OP.

oslash

Apr 20, 2014, 10:48 PM

UnLucky

Apr 20, 2014, 10:59 PM

i don't think many people really understood pso1 or psu from a very intimate ta standpoint so a great deal of the nuance in what makes these games so good is lost on most people. that's not elitist but a fact since a completely different perspective on the game is lost on the greater audience of the game. setting and keeping records in an older, more complex game with a more mature meta is indicative of a deeper understanding of the game and ability to min/max effectively.

quantitatively speaking i can't measure someone's enjoyment of a game or comment on what they feel about it, but things like complexity or how a game works can be concisely stated and digested; implemented in planning. he's commenting on things that are facts here, and he never once said that he had the only valid analysis of pso/psu/pso2 gameplay. he only said that due to someone not grasping the basics of a game they can't understand higher level play.

in the end i can't tell anyone them LIKING a game is invalid, but i can point out why individual reasons may be shaky when put in perspective. even if those reasons are true it's not as if their enjoyment was spoiled.
Ok, so, and?

Where are the actual comparisons and objective facts that put one game's mechanics over the other?

You pretty much said nothing in all of that. Just like Alukard said nothing. Aside from denouncing Z-0's something as nothing.

Don't just say "you're wrong, there's more to it than that" and then stop.

Nitro Vordex

Apr 20, 2014, 11:53 PM

I actually went back to make sure this was a post, Unlucky.

i don't think many people really understood pso1 or psu from a very intimate ta standpoint so a great deal of the nuance in what makes these games so good is lost on most people. that's not elitist but a fact since a completely different perspective on the game is lost on the greater audience of the game. setting and keeping records in an older, more complex game with a more mature meta is indicative of a deeper understanding of the game and ability to min/max effectively.

quantitatively speaking i can't measure someone's enjoyment of a game or comment on what they feel about it, but things like complexity or how a game works can be concisely stated and digested; implemented in planning. he's commenting on things that are facts here, and he never once said that he had the only valid analysis of pso/psu/pso2 gameplay. he only said that due to someone not grasping the basics of a game they can't understand higher level play.

in the end i can't tell anyone them LIKING a game is invalid, but i can point out why individual reasons may be shaky when put in perspective. even if those reasons are true it's not as if their enjoyment was spoiled.
The only decent paragraph, is the middle one. The top and bottom ones lack proof. I NEED THE PROOF. I NEED EVIDENCE, FACTS, STATS, RECORDS, etc.

Zipzo

Apr 20, 2014, 11:59 PM

I actually went back to make sure this was a post, Unlucky.

The only decent paragraph, is the middle one. The top and bottom ones lack proof. I NEED THE PROOF. I NEED EVIDENCE, FACTS, STATS, RECORDS, etc.

No, they are all three, an equal level of rubbish.

As Unlucky said, I anxiously await some kind of actual, legitimate proof or demonstration either in words or anything else that they to even justify their right to even act so pretentious, but I know it will never come. It's just one of those things you keep hoping for.

Shadowth117

Apr 21, 2014, 12:06 AM

as a psobb fan im disappointed on pso2 because most of the fun things werent carried over like

-mags as a drop (tradeable and you can had multiple mags without AC)
-special weapon attributes
-unique weapons like ano bazooka, snow queen, diska of braveman, lavis cannon, millie martreaux, etc. so you wouldnt hunt only the weapon that gives the most attack stat
-secrets everywhere, like going into a waterfall to transform branch of paku paku into striker of chao, or the maximum attack quest series
-section ids, some hate them but it makes trading and playing on parties a necessary thing, it was a good feature, now you cant trade without being premium, at least premium users should be able to trade with non-premium users
-soccer lobby... yay (?)

also i dont like the subclass system

but even like that pso2 is a good game, but i cant consider it a pso1 sequel

Mag thing is understandable.

Special weapon attributes exist as latent abilities, love them or hate them. I do think they should be innate rather than something you need to grind for, but eh.

To an extent, that actually exists. We have weapons like Vibrace Arrow which are used for things like FoBr purely because they have potential to do damage in ways that other weapons don't. Its not as much variation as it could be compared to the stuff you mentioned I don't think, but its at least something.

The secrets? Yeah we could definitely use that. We've got some silly ones in the TA quests that are okayish, but not particularly interesting. Nothing at all like that in the story quests where you might expect them more. Not to mention just cool quests in general...

Trading is stupid in this yes. But really with the section ID's? I'm sorry, I don't want to have worthless drops in the mission all of my friends want to do just because I wanted my character to have a particular name. Even PSP2's drop system, while it made more sense because classes were essentially your section ID, was kind of annoying because you still absolutely had to be a certain class to get certain drops a lot of the time.

Soccer lobby would be fun yes.

Subclass system being bad is partly your opinion and party bad design on Sega's part. I think its cool, but the focus on damage skills for everything rather than unique class skills which leads hunter to be the best for almost every situation is stupid. At the very least, it shouldn't be a choice between doing a crapton more damage or being able to use skills which would make the classes potentially more unique and viable than they are. That's just how I feel though.

Really, the game is hard to consider a true sequel to PSU or PSO. PSU at least maintained a number of similar features and mainly, love it or hate it, changed things while working off of PSO's base formula. PSO2 took a bunch of concepts from past games in the series as a whole and then stuck them onto a very new engine. Its like the difference between Kirby's Epic Yarn and Kirby 64 or Super Mario Bros. to Super Mario Bros 2 (USA) if you're comparing PSO2 to PSO as far as base gameplay differences. (which is funnier if you're aware that Epic Yarn wasn't even meant to be a Kirby game at first)

It could have been worse of course. We could have gotten a situation like Banjo Kazooie to Banjo Kazooie Nuts and Bolts. I'm in no way excusing the problems PSO2 does have of course.

Agitated_AT

Apr 21, 2014, 11:28 PM

I was like that in the beginning as well. My enthusiasm went through the roof

pso2love

Apr 21, 2014, 11:56 PM

these points are actually pretty good and underline why it should have been a subscription based game. really it's just an excuse for them to nickel and dime us for an uneven playing field.

the primary difference (asides from crafting) between pso2 and psu is that in psu there is a direct correlation between time spent and material/exp/skills/items/whatever gained. in pso2 this is laughable/nonexistent in some scenarios and the disparity gets even more ridiculous when compared with pay.

Think of it this way... Before Sakai ever announced that PSO2 would be free-to-play, everyone was ready to pay an upwards $60+ for this game, expecting it to be subscription based... so why do people complain that free players don't get the same perks that premium players get? Simple, just go premium... and if you can't afford to go premium, wait until you can... it's not like you can't play if you don't pay... it's Free To Play!

UnLucky

Apr 22, 2014, 12:14 AM

You're a living caricature.

DA_SHIZZLE_IG

Apr 22, 2014, 01:29 AM

@Zipzo
I should have went a little deeper with that line. I actually watched my brother play a lot and watched a bunch of videos on here. I just wasn't excited about nothing. Like most I thought the combo system and the jump option was gonna move things forward. It really didn't, they added that but took away key elements that made PSO, PSO. Doing this basically took a step back. So I decided to see if playing the game would change my mind. I was sooo unmotivated and just gave up lol. There was no excitement and I didn't even feel like exploring. The boss fights look like a downgraded version of psu bosses etc etc.

I don't know if I'd call 2006 "really old"; I see some 2001-2003 members still bopping around.
Actually I signed up in 2001 and got banned for like 3 years lol. This is my second account. I made this one after the legits vs hackers/cheaters war was over. All the old school members remember this lol. Some of the mods on here used to get super butt hurt and ruled with an iron fist.

Then we have to factor in rare enemies.
PSO1 response: OMFG!!!1! a hildtorr!!! Must somehow kill it before it kills me in hopes that I get that thing I've been searching for!
PSO2 response: Yey a rare enemy that won't drop me anything, and even if it does it's probably worthless. Oh look a Rappy! Fcuk sake. Those are just as common as normal enemies.
PSU response: Got a rare route! woo, now I might get that worthless item!

Also a 2006 member haha

ok.

PSO v1 was fun but eventually needed more content

PSO v2 just had more content

PSO GC "MORE FREAKING CONTENT OMGGGGG"

PSO CARD "OMFG something card players who like pso will anjoy! "i didnt"

PSOBB AWWWMYYYYGOAAAD MORE CONTENT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

but aside from card for obvious reasons the mechanics did not evolve.

why? i guess it wasnt needed at that time.

PSU -> OMFG A PSO sequel!!!!!!

PSU aoti -> OMFG PSO content!!!!!

ps0 - OMFG PSO portable!

PSO2 OMFG its pso!!!!!!

but it isnt is it?

why? because nostalgia works like that.

pso2 is a shiny perfect clean version os pso, pso was much darker.

pso was inside the cyberpunk genre, pso2 is on the sci fi genre.

thats pretty much "in an artistic view" what pso2 inherited from PSU..

in general psu had a larger space to explore i felt open and free with the game. I played it alot and i loved how much weapons and things i could choose from, where as pso2 its so compacted in the ship and little amounts of quests sucks i loved psu just because i could play a mmorpg on the console which was interesting enough, even though they delayed shit for us in america it was still fun because they kept giving us events and new shit eventually. I enjoyed the game and if they make a sequel to the first in the new consoles i might juust jizz my pants.

Uh.... PSU did NOT rely on frustration to make money. In PSU, you could run through a mission, have a reasonable chance at getting some decent materials to sell, have a pretty reasonable chance at okay stuff to vendor, and the end drops were the best things in the game until very late in its life. Even then, they were still very good most of the time which made clearing missions fast important.

That's not even talking about missions like Ohtori which let you just farm for AMP, a currency you could trade in for valuable materials, which was guaranteed after every run. For a long time, this mission also had very worthwhile drops too on top of that, should you be lucky enough to get them. And of course, since enemies aren't randomly spawning, this relied a lot on doing the mission as many times as possible which in turn gave meaning to clearing them as fast as possible.

You can bring up fodder farming as a parallel to material farming although its nowhere near the same level. But nothing in PSO2 has worthwhile end drops (OMG, WORTHLESS PSP2 INFECTED AURA FROM ABDUCTION!) and there's no guaranteed source of money from continuously farming something like with AMP.

Edit: Not to mention everything vendors to absolute crap in this compared to PSU. Say what you want about the beginning of PSO2's life with vendoring, but that certainly doesn't happen now.

I just think pso2 was designed alot worse than the other games in the series, theres next to no content by comparison, drops suck, grinding can be even more annoying than psu, the effort:reward ratio is beyond hopeless because if you do manage to save up/hunt for an item you want and upgrade it there will probably be something better or an easier method of obtaining said item will come within a short amount of time and pretty much slap you in the face for all the time and work you put into getting said item.

these points are actually pretty good and underline why it should have been a subscription based game. really it's just an excuse for them to nickel and dime us for an uneven playing field.

the primary difference (asides from crafting) between pso2 and psu is that in psu there is a direct correlation between time spent and material/exp/skills/items/whatever gained. in pso2 this is laughable/nonexistent in some scenarios and the disparity gets even more ridiculous when compared with pay.

as a psobb fan im disappointed on pso2 because most of the fun things werent carried over like

-mags as a drop (tradeable and you can had multiple mags without AC)
-special weapon attributes
-unique weapons like ano bazooka, snow queen, diska of braveman, lavis cannon, millie martreaux, etc. so you wouldnt hunt only the weapon that gives the most attack stat
-secrets everywhere, like going into a waterfall to transform branch of paku paku into striker of chao, or the maximum attack quest series
-section ids, some hate them but it makes trading and playing on parties a necessary thing, it was a good feature, now you cant trade without being premium, at least premium users should be able to trade with non-premium users
-soccer lobby... yay (?)

also i dont like the subclass system

but even like that pso2 is a good game, but i cant consider it a pso1 sequel

Mag thing is understandable.

Trading is stupid in this yes. But really with the section ID's? I'm sorry, I don't want to have worthless drops in the mission all of my friends want to do just because I wanted my character to have a particular name. Even PSP2's drop system, while it made more sense because classes were essentially your section ID, was kind of annoying because you still absolutely had to be a certain class to get certain drops a lot of the time.

Really, the game is hard to consider a true sequel to PSU or PSO. PSU at least maintained a number of similar features and mainly, love it or hate it, changed things while working off of PSO's base formula. PSO2 took a bunch of concepts from past games in the series as a whole and then stuck them onto a very new engine. Its like the difference between Kirby's Epic Yarn and Kirby 64 or Super Mario Bros. to Super Mario Bros 2 (USA) if you're comparing PSO2 to PSO as far as base gameplay differences. (which is funnier if you're aware that Epic Yarn wasn't even meant to be a Kirby game at first)
And this is pretty much what I was trying to say without typing too much lol(i'm lazy).

@Shadowth117
Last paragraph really hit the nail on the head! That PRETTY MUCH SUMS IT UP. I loved the ID drops though. It made the community interact with each other. I remember looking for the heaven punisher and I gathered up a team of bluefalls(bluefall was a rare ID). I might get a lot of hate from this but I'm going to say what a lot of people don't want to say. This game just doesn't feel like PSO. They went a little too far left with this game. PSU did the same but kept enough of the things we loved from past pso's. This game is missing the formula.

To add on to this. This game feels kiddy and less serious. It's real soft and .........cute lol. The darker feel is not there. The creatures aint creepy or scary looking at all. The creatures/bosses in this game makes me want to capture them and hug them(no homo). Hell, even the weapons look harmless and everything "sparkles". The story has never really been all that deep but this story is crap compared to past games. Haven't seen anything yet that connects this to the others in any way(if it is let me know). All of the space PSU gave us and now we back to limited space. Even the sound has been downgraded. Little things like the sound it made when you got a critical hit and they exploded and melted lol. Don't get me started on the music. One thing that really tics me off is too much class mixing!!!!!!!!!!!!! It's all kinds of hybrids and s**t. This takes away a lot of what made PSO, PSO. I just want a regular human ranger and talk about how much better my class/race is than the others. Things like this was a major thing. It added to to the team aspect and sparked all kinds of conversation/arguments. I'm a ranger till I die! This game seems to crap on ranger types and the guns(guns that I seen so far suck). PSU was kinda like that but this one basically cast them aside. It's all about hunters on this one.

Don't get me wrong, the game is cool but it flat out just aint PSO.

Zipzo

Apr 22, 2014, 01:39 AM

Don't get me wrong, the game is cool but it flat out just aint PSO.

Yes, in other news, fire is also hot, and ice is cold.

Unfortunately for you, they did not make "PSO HD Remastered Ver 3.1 Remix". They made a new game called "Phantasy Star Online 2".

PSO is always there for you to play if you wish it.

DA_SHIZZLE_IG

Apr 22, 2014, 01:43 AM

And oh yeah, That whole players that pay and players that play free separation was a super bad idea. First they seperate the japanese servers and now this SMH. When this drops over here the support for this game is probably gonna be worse than PSU.

Are the people who made this game completely different than the others who worked on past games? If so, it would explain a lot.

@pso2love

Seriously bruh, you just gonna excuse the fact that this separates the community? The makers of PSO 2 are just super greedy. Xbox has this thing where you can get limited access to things online but none of the super cool things. They do this to make you want to pay for full access. This is a greedy tactic but it makes sense. This is straight up retarded for a community based online game. Whoever was in charge of the online aspect must be new to the PSO series.

Zipzo

Apr 22, 2014, 01:53 AM

And oh yeah, That whole players that pay and players that play free separation was a super bad idea. First they seperate the japanese servers and now this SMH. When this drops over here the support for this game is probably gonna be worse than PSU.

They haven't separated anything as there is no US/EU server to separate, and it's unlikely there will even be a US/EU server.

It's been said like an excruciating # of times why it will be split, given a US/EU server ever came in to existence. The laws simply differ from country country now (yes, as in it's different from what it was back when PSO was current). It simply doesn't jive to legal aspects that SEGA can do nothing about. It wasn't a design decision made utterly on purpose (though who could blame them if it was done on purpose, look at the situation on Ship 2).

The fact of the matter is you have zero experience playing the game at any decent level, and despite the fact that many of us have our own concerns and criticisms, the valid and educated kind is certainly not coming from the rear end of someone who has no idea what they're talking about (that's you).

DA_SHIZZLE_IG

Apr 22, 2014, 01:58 AM

Yes, in other news, fire is also hot, and ice is cold.

Unfortunately for you, they did not make "PSO HD Remastered Ver 3.1 Remix". They made a new game called "Phantasy Star Online 2".

PSO is always there for you to play if you wish it.
looks like somebody wants attention.......

How about you add to the thread topic and voice your opinion. Your obvious feelings and trolling is getting lame. Your sarcasm is super lame also. Either you are completely missing this threads subject. Or it's making you mad that people aren't getting the PSO feeling from a game called "PSO 2".

PSU was a whole new game and even changed the title. It changed a lot, added waaay more stuff, but somewhat kept the "PSO magic". This game was obviously supposed to be a "sequel" to the original PSO. That right there alone got everybody hype. But it just failed to deliver in a lot of LONGTIME PSO fans eyes.

Seriously though, I can tell you really like this game. Tell us why you like it over the others. Anything besides trolling and trying to derail the thread with your emotions.

Zipzo

Apr 22, 2014, 02:05 AM

looks like somebody wants attention.......

How about you add to the thread topic and voice your opinion. Your obvious feelings and trolling is getting lame. Your sarcasm is super lame also. Either you are completely missing this threads subject. Or it's making you mad that people aren't getting the PSO feeling from a game called "PSO 2".

PSU was a whole new game and even changed the title. It changed a lot, added waaay more stuff, but somewhat kept the "PSO magic". This game was obviously supposed to be a "sequel" to the original PSO. That right there alone got everybody hype. But it just failed to deliver in a lot of LONGTIME PSO fans eyes.

Seriously though, I can tell you really like this game. Tell us why you like it over the others. Anything besides trolling and trying to derail the thread with your emotions.

You're not even providing anything tangible to go off of.

You just think PSO2 is missing that "PSO magic". Can you cumulatively and objectively state how many features PSU added over PSO, that PSO2 failed to deliver on? Can you give us any objective reasoning for your thoughts?

What the front door is "PSO magic"? Whatever it is, I guarantee you it's something that has to do with your emotions, not mine.

DA_SHIZZLE_IG

Apr 22, 2014, 02:07 AM

You're not even providing anything tangible to go off of.

You just think PSO2 is missing that "PSO magic".

What the front door is "PSO magic"? Whatever it is, I guarantee you it's something that has to do with your emotions, not mine.
Ignored! Everyone ignore this troll please.

Zipzo

Apr 22, 2014, 02:13 AM

Ignored! Everyone ignore this troll please.

So you can't answer a legitimate question in a thread you created.

Your entire first post is emotion-biased nostalgia. Anyone can see that. You have effectively never even played the game, your only statement made against PSO2 is that it lacks "dat PSO stuff", which means literally nothing to anyone but you. Nobody can tell you it doesn't lack such a thing, since that thing is probably different for everyone.

If you provide objective, factual information with criticisms on said things...that's a conversation we can indulge in, but until you do that, you're the real troll here. What am I even saying...you're from IG, that's like wearing the troll club t-shirt.

To expand on the point...PSO2 is making money hand over fist. It's our job as players to point out what we feel are flaws, things that need to be fixed or improved. They likely aren't interested in being whatever model of "PSO magic" you're hoping for, because what they're doing is working. The game is solid, it just has areas that needs improving, just like PSU did, and just like original PSO did. Neither of the 3 were ever perfect, nor even close. There are other series that actually do what PSO does better.

I played a shit load of PSO, and I loved it, but I don't confuse my awesome childhood gaming experiences with facts. PSO had flaws, major ones. PSU also had major flaws. So does PSO2. The role of the player is point them out, not criminally whine that it's less like your dreamy ideal view of what the game should be.

TheszNuts

Apr 22, 2014, 03:39 AM

...another thread where OP complains about the paywall. The Hunter's and Guardians's Licenses were paywalls in that sense too because you were unable to do many cool things like... play online. Makes it ironic that SEGA does not want to release the western version because they think western gamers don't want this F2P model.

Arada

Apr 22, 2014, 04:37 AM

The makers of PSO 2 are just super greedy.

Welcome to reality. Where businesses are run with money.

Paying for PSO2 is your decision. It's not forced in any way and somebody paying for Premium, scratches or some items are only leveling/grinding faster than someone who doesn't pay or (s)he gets cosmetics.
But in the end, your only paying for more comfort and not for content.
In my opinion (I'm a Premium user), it's a fair deal and in no way a barrier of any sort. You can still get the full content of the game for free.

I don't see any harm in Sega trying to tempt us to buy costumes or Premium.

To answer on your "PSO feel". It doesn't have to. The games are more than 10 years apart in terms of game design and the fact that you're remembering PSO as "full of content" while "PSO2 is empty" is because PSO has been run over several more years which all added content (from the episodes).
Same for PSU which was much more empty than PSO and PSO2 in its first year but content got added over time to make a very complete game after 5+ years on the japanese servers.

Give PSO2 some time, it's improving. It's not perfect in any way (dat graphic engine from Dreamcast era with HD textures, it cannot even make proper "round" stuff...) as it has design flaws and balance flaws but it's still enjoyable to me.
That and there is also no game, to my knowledge, with a similar gameplay and that's online.

Kikikiki

Apr 22, 2014, 04:40 AM

Ignored! Everyone ignore this troll please.

Trolls don't put time into typing walls of text.

That's another type of image on the internet.

AOI_Tifa_Lockhart

Apr 22, 2014, 06:42 AM

I miss a lot of elements from PSU but PSO2 has certainly improved on a great many areas but also left a large amount out as well. I heard Tera was more hack and slash compared to regular wooden MMO's where you're glued to viewing the UI for all your moves and cooldowns etc.

The combat is greatly improved and it's a fresh approach to things which makes battles really exciting. The size of the monsters and scale of EQ fights are brilliant and feel innovative for the PS series. The graphics engine feels half baked, certainly an improvement over the original, but even at my 2560x1600 the game still looks ugly. As others have said the models aren't great but the textures are quite decent in places but severely drab in others. Consistency is key. Reminds me of heavily modded Skyrim or Fallout where 90% is HD textures but the poorly textures items stand out like a sore thumb. The lack of weapon sets compared to PSU is a bit annoying, i'm sure they'll add more in time, but for now it's quite disappointing. The 10* and 11* purchasing restrictions is a great idea imo and really emphasizes hunting for your items. I miss PA levelling compared to just finding levelled discs. Also the class types being your sole character level is a bit frustrating. Mag feeding times feel too long and the PB patch can't come a moment too soon.

I think what I miss most is lobbies inbetween levels on this game compared to PSU. It made going on quests feel like a real adventure and there were so many places you could visit. Instead of a quick 10-30 minute mission and then back to the campship or the main Arks lobby. To me that's just the biggest let down. Sure, having 1 lobby harks back to PSO2 but they haven't even got different colour schemes for the blocks like PSO did. To me both of those issues seem severely lazy and badly thought out on Sega's part. Also every type of clothing being a 1 piece feels sloppy to me. Sure they've added loads of accessories but it's a shame you can't customize your look between tops and trousers etc etc.

End game content is also severely lacking. All I see is people doing Time Attacks and CO's all dayh long and it's tedious. The game feels pretty boring once you've unlocked each stage because then all you're left with is another stereotypical MMO with dull missions to kill so many creatures, collect things, escort things etc etc.

I guess more content and EQ's will help. I suppose my post is more complaining than praising. Can't agree with 100% of the OP's comments but I don't think it's solely trolling. I did orignally love PSO2 but the more I played the more disappointments I felt. I wasn't on PSU in the early days. I joined shortly before AOTI came out so i guess I was graced with far more content than PSO2 currently has and that's probably why it feels pretty lacking at the moment.

Tifa

UnLucky

Apr 22, 2014, 09:29 AM

One thing that really tics me off is too much class mixing!!!!!!!!!!!!! It's all kinds of hybrids and s**t. This takes away a lot of what made PSO, PSO. I just want a regular human ranger and talk about how much better my class/race is than the others. Things like this was a major thing. It added to to the team aspect and sparked all kinds of conversation/arguments. I'm a ranger till I die! This game seems to crap on ranger types and the guns(guns that I seen so far suck). PSU was kinda like that but this one basically cast them aside. It's all about hunters on this one.

Don't get me wrong, the game is cool but it flat out just aint PSO.
Oh, you mean how like which race you chose made your class completely different in PSO?

Or really specific stuff like Protranser and Fighgunner that combine different aspects into one unique thing, many of which being redundant or outright terrible?

Ranger's pretty good in this game. And "Ranger types" like Gunner are currently overpowered. Hunters... hunters aren't even that good, other than as a subclass. Though Fighter and Braver are great.

Honestly, the subclass system is so imbalanced that it's actually a whole lot simpler than PSO or PSU's race/class variety.

Unfortunately for you, they did not make "PSO HD Remastered Ver 3.1 Remix". They made a new game called "Phantasy Star Online 2".

PSO is always there for you to play if you wish it.
Yeah, a completely separate thing called a direct sequel.

It's a pretty valid complaint if the game doesn't extend or build upon the previous installment.

Like Pac-Man 2. It is entirely unlike Pac-Man in the arcades. If you bought it thinking it would resemble any part of the original gameplay whatsoever, you will be disappointed. Not that it's a bad game (well, it isn't that great) but there are certain expectations when you increment the number next to the same name.

Why not go back and play PSO? Maybe, just maybe, people wanted a newer, cooler, better version? Or they've played PSO already. It's done, they've gotten everything in it. And now they want more. More of what was good, less of what was bad, and some that's completely new. It's not much of a sequel if it's mostly brand new without the qualities that made the first one so good.

Welcome to reality. Where businesses are run with money.

Paying for PSO2 is your decision. It's not forced in any way and somebody paying for Premium, scratches or some items are only leveling/grinding faster than someone who doesn't pay or (s)he gets cosmetics.
But in the end, your only paying for more comfort and not for content.
In my opinion (I'm a Premium user), it's a fair deal and in no way a barrier of any sort. You can still get the full content of the game for free.

I don't see any harm in Sega trying to tempt us to buy costumes or Premium.
Yeahh, I'd agree if PSO2 wasn't stuck in limbo between free and subscription based.

A premium player isn't playing a P2P game. There's still a cash shop and p2w and free players to deal with.

But it's also not a F2P game. Make a mistake as a free player and you're done. Pay or quit. You can't trade, you can't buy high end equipment, and you can't buy cash shop items for in game gold. Total paywall, limited trial version, completely locking out features to free players.

On the flip side, as a total p2w cash shopper, you can't go and buy the most desirable cash items to sell, or even anything at all without an upfront cost on top of the items you were going to sell in the first place! You can't drop a bunch of cash for a stack of upgrade insurance to bruteforce your gear, you either get lucky or just buy from other premium players. How is that any better than a free player?

DJcooltrainer

Apr 22, 2014, 10:06 AM

Like Pac-Man 2. It is entirely unlike Pac-Man in the arcades. If you bought it thinking it would resemble any part of the original gameplay whatsoever, you will be disappointed. Not that it's a bad game (well, it isn't that great) but there are certain expectations when you increment the number next to the same name.

I had a good laugh at this, mostly because for some reason I fucking LOVED Pac-Man 2 as a kid (LOOK! LOOK!), and I also enjoy playing PSO2. I think it's possible to still enjoy something even though it has its flaws. I don't think I've ever played a game I thought was 'perfect', especially not an online game. Hell, the original PSO was far from perfect.

You're totally right, though. People didn't get what they expected from the game, and they're vocal about not liking it. It reminds me a LOT of when PSU first launched and a lot of the hardcore PSO players absolutely hated it. Now with PSO2, you've got people complaining that it's not as 'good' as PSU, even though the game is arguably a lot more like PSU than it is like PSO.

Now I totally understand why Sega isn't marketing this game outside of Japan. You can't please a Phantasy Star fan.

gigawuts

Apr 22, 2014, 10:17 AM

I had a good laugh at this, mostly because for some reason I fucking LOVED Pac-Man 2 as a kid (LOOK! LOOK!), and I also enjoy playing PSO2. I think it's possible to still enjoy something even though it has its flaws. I don't think I've ever played a game I thought was 'perfect', especially not an online game. Hell, the original PSO was far from perfect.

You're totally right, though. People didn't get what they expected from the game, and they're vocal about not liking it. It reminds me a LOT of when PSU first launched and a lot of the hardcore PSO players absolutely hated it. Now with PSO2, you've got people complaining that it's not as 'good' as PSU, even though the game is arguably a lot more like PSU than it is like PSO.

Now I totally understand why Sega isn't marketing this game outside of Japan. You can't please a Phantasy Star fan.

Well, it's an issue of false expectations.

You need to keep in mind that PSO lasted 2.5 console generations, went from the Dreamcast to PC to the Dreamcast to the Gamecube and Xbox, and then to the PC again. Each iteration brought more content, and improved a bunch of problems (but also added some).

By the time PSU came out PSO fans - not to be confused with PS classic fans who were a bit more measured in their expectations - expected more PSO. Why wouldn't they? Every step of the way was more PSO and better PSO. Everything Sega said very plainly put into words that PSU was going to be everything you loved about PSO, on a larger scale. There were going to be multiple planets, and enormous fields. PSU was going to be the PSO MMO everyone wanted. No, I'm not embellishing this - these were things Sega was actually saying before PSU launched. I remember it well.

So, there came PSU, and what did they get? Nothing they expected, and nothing they were promised. They got a game with content locked on the disc, areas cordoned off for months, areas and missions smaller than the ones in PSO, a far simpler and shorter story mode, nothing worth hunting except super rare items, and an IOU.

If PSU was never said to be PSO 2.0 there probably wouldn't have been so much backlash. If it wasn't PS at all - if it was some completely new title instead - there probably wouldn't have been backlash at all.

The same thing is happening with this game. If they never called it PSO2 - if they never called it PS - people would be way more reasonable in their reactions. The problem is, between rose tintedness and just the sheer volume of differences in even the most basic design principles, people feel duped when they come for PSO and get nothing that made PSO fun for them.

Zipzo

Apr 22, 2014, 10:30 AM

Yeah, a completely separate thing called a direct sequel.

It's a pretty valid complaint if the game doesn't extend or build upon the previous installment.

Like Pac-Man 2. It is entirely unlike Pac-Man in the arcades. If you bought it thinking it would resemble any part of the original gameplay whatsoever, you will be disappointed. Not that it's a bad game (well, it isn't that great) but there are certain expectations when you increment the number next to the same name.

Why not go back and play PSO? Maybe, just maybe, people wanted a newer, cooler, better version? Or they've played PSO already. It's done, they've gotten everything in it. And now they want more. More of what was good, less of what was bad, and some that's completely new. It's not much of a sequel if it's mostly brand new without the qualities that made the first one so good.

Is it not utterly subjective, whether you believe PSO2 is an improved experience from PSO or not? I've seen many folks state on this very board that they wouldn't go back even if they had the choice to a time where PSO would be current, or rather that a souped up PSO would even be available.

A game like PSO, no matter how fun, was not timeless. Sure, it has replay value to many who played it back then, it is timeless to those types (like me, even), but it is far from a game that anyone who'd never heard of it before who games today could go back and seriously enjoy it on the level that they do other current day similar-genre options. It is anachronistic in so many ways, and to insist that it was perfect is to ignore all the issues people were screaming about on this very board back then just the way they do now.

Well, it's an issue of false expectations.

You need to keep in mind that PSO lasted 2.5 console generations, went from the Dreamcast to PC to the Dreamcast to the Gamecube and Xbox, and then to the PC again. Each iteration brought more content, and improved a bunch of problems (but also added some).

By the time PSU came out PSO fans - not to be confused with PS classic fans who were a bit more measured in their expectations - expected more PSO. Why wouldn't they? Every step of the way was more PSO and better PSO. Everything Sega said very plainly put into words that PSU was going to be everything you loved about PSO, on a larger scale. There were going to be multiple planets, and enormous fields. PSU was going to be the PSO MMO everyone wanted. No, I'm not embellishing this - these were things Sega was actually saying before PSU launched. I remember it well.

So, there came PSU, and what did they get? Nothing they expected, and nothing they were promised. They got a game with content locked on the disc, areas cordoned off for months, areas and missions smaller than the ones in PSO, a far simpler and shorter story mode, nothing worth hunting except super rare items, and an IOU.

If PSU was never said to be PSO 2.0 there probably wouldn't have been so much backlash. If it wasn't PS at all - if it was some completely new title instead - there probably wouldn't have been backlash at all.

The same thing is happening with this game. If they never called it PSO2 - if they never called it PS - people would be way more reasonable in their reactions. The problem is, between rose tintedness and just the sheer volume of differences in even the most basic design principles, people feel duped when they come for PSO and get nothing that made PSO fun for them.

Agree with all this, though I feel that bearing the PSO name was part of the ploy to effectively nab all the gamers of the series in the past.

There really is no putting this lightly, but I seriously doubt this game would have done well if they literally, in actuality and in every literal form of the word literal, released a bunch of new areas to the old PSO construct. If to this, you would say "Of course they make improvements, they wouldn't just copy over the same game and add stuff a'la blue burst content", then I would say...that's the hard part. Improving an old, prehistoric formula in to something new and fresh. That's what SEGA is trying to do, and despite their faults I think it's simply tough to deny the difficulty of doing such a thing.

Whether it's like old PSO or not is something that can be seen as a fault or a positive, it depends on who you are.

gigawuts

Apr 22, 2014, 10:36 AM

ShinMaruku

Apr 22, 2014, 11:09 AM

Funny in some other games they do both quite well. Goddamn Atlus....

gigawuts

Apr 22, 2014, 11:17 AM

Alukard

Apr 22, 2014, 11:20 AM

PSO absolutely would not appeal to mass markets in the modern game industry. It just wouldn't. While players who like PSO's genre obviously still exist, there are far more players who will gladly pay money for a more casual experience.

And, of course, money is the goal - not good games. By and large, investors and companies in general don't care if a game is remembered in 50 years, they care if they get money. If a game is remembered then that's nice. Some companies care about that sort of thing, but Sega ain't one of 'em.

+1

PSO has too many barriers for todays standards. Timing to combo is ludicrous for a dress up game. Sega was smart, people can just hold the attack button now and others can feel pro for "JA'ing". :-?

Edit: A problem about games, that are meant to last x number, is that they keep content off just to push it on people once it gets repetitive. Back when pso2 started in 2012 it wasn't even worth playing. There was little to no content and the grinding was a pain in the ass. Played this game barely for a month and I already lack motivation to grind my way through. The rng spawns take incentive to play this game, because you literally have to hope for certain enemies to spawn and it also takes away the feeling of improvement (personal development) since you can't compare your previous runs with the one you just did. I feel like this game is made for people, who are not capable of learning spawns. But the obvious reason for this design is to add a rng factor so people can't grind through certain quests to get certain equipment and therefore force premium on individuals who don't have the luck to get said equipment and need to buy it from the shop.

ShinMaruku

Apr 22, 2014, 11:24 AM

Making a good game has obvious advantages in that players will want more of it, but considering PSO2 is a F2P cash cow meant to last ten years it's hardly a surprise that they don't care if it looks good in the rearview mirror.

It won't last 10 years and if they want it to be a cash cow on real f2p terms Sega has some work to do. But for what they made it for it serves it's purpose very well. After all PSo2 is just a cog in Service Games machine of making money. So I am impressed with what we got with all this around it.

Zipzo

Apr 22, 2014, 11:24 AM

+1

PSO has too many barriers for todays standards. Timing to combo is ludicrous for a dress up game. Sega was smart, people can just hold the attack button now and others can feel pro for "JA'ing". :-?

Would not really consider the difference between the old timing aspect of PSO combos to JAing as some kind of barrier for entry...

Both were/are easy to do no matter what type of gamer you are, and I'd argue JAing can sometimes be more "difficult".

gigawuts

Apr 22, 2014, 11:26 AM

What's really funny about all of this is that those kids who made fun of us for playing video games way back - you know, back when they were all blocky glitchy pieces of shit and we liked it - really did have the last laugh.

"True gamers," as some of them like to be called (rofl irl) never went away. Those of us that tolerated games when they were in their growing pains are still around, and we still like those kinds of games - it's just that most game companies just don't care about us anymore because there aren't enough of us. We aren't worth enough money. We were their stepping stone to greener pastures.

Who do you think is mindlessly throwing money at shit like farmville? It sure as shit isn't us "true gamers" that spent time in dark rooms decades ago playing games nobody else had the patience for.

How anybody didn't see this coming is beyond me. Yeah, some companies still like to try to appeal to us, but expecting every company to is pretty dumb.

edit:

It won't last 10 years and if they want it to be a cash cow on real f2p terms Sega has some work to do. But for what they made it for it serves it's purpose very well. After all PSo2 is just a cog in Service Games machine of making money. So I am impressed with what we got with all this around it.

It's completely plausible to me that PSO2 will last ten years. They'll rework things a few times, like they are in the coming update, and that'll bring a bunch of people back when they do it. They'll appeal to different markets a couple times as they go along, with periodic collaborations. They'll throw nostalgic content in every so often, bringing more people back who will spend a bit and then leave. The people they bring back to spend bits of money aren't the end goal, they're the means to bringing in swathes of new players who they'll work through and throw away after a few bucks.

All of these guys coming and going reaffirm the ill advised spending habits of the whales, much like lexus ads not being made to convince people to buy lexuses but instead to remind lexus owners how much bigger their dicks are because they spent one more digit on some metal and plastic.

Alukard

Apr 22, 2014, 11:40 AM

Would not really consider the difference between the old timing aspect of PSO combos to JAing as some kind of barrier for entry...

Both were/are easy to do no matter what type of gamer you are, and I'd argue JAing can sometimes be more "difficult".

I doubt any player would consider it difficult. It's an exaggeration, but I suppose you didn't think it was funny. From a marketing pov, the more restrictions you put in your game the lower your possible player base will become.

There are for a fact jp games out there that are completely based on dressing up, I was stigmatizing them ( the dress up players) as not being capable of timing an attack etc. Explaining a joke is the worst

Zipzo

Apr 22, 2014, 11:48 AM

I doubt any player would consider it difficult. It's an exaggeration, but I suppose you didn't think it was funny. From a marketing pov, the more restrictions you put in your game the lower your possible player base will become.

There are for a fact jp games out there that are completely based on dressing up, I was stigmatizing them ( the dress up players) as not being capable of timing an attack etc. Explaining a joke is the worst

Well, comes with the territory of not being funny I would assume.

Alukard

Apr 22, 2014, 11:52 AM

Well, comes with the territory of not being funny I would assume.

Yes, I lack in humor but I make up in skill. How long did you play and invest in this game? I feel sad for you.

Zipzo

Apr 22, 2014, 11:54 AM

Yes, I lack in humor but I make up in skill. How long did you play and invest in this game? I feel sad for you.

Why do you feel sad for me O_o? You certainly aren't obligated to feel that way, there's no reason to be sad for me lol.

9898

Apr 22, 2014, 12:00 PM

Ok, so, and?

Where are the actual comparisons and objective facts that put one game's mechanics over the other?

You pretty much said nothing in all of that. Just like Alukard said nothing. Aside from denouncing Z-0's something as nothing.

Don't just say "you're wrong, there's more to it than that" and then stop.

pso1 having a more mature[b/] meta is a fact. the game has been out for a decade. asides from glitches etc there is nothing new left since new quests aren't coming out and the gear/builds are set in stone. in pso2 there is new stuff coming out all the time, which means truly optimal routing etc hasn't been found yet. that should be self evident. the other point in that post is that taers understand the game better than people who don't ta. how difficult are either of these points to understand?

since you honestly want me to argue why pso1 (which wasn't one of my claims in that post) is deeper let's delve into facts. any of the below could change in pso2 if it's changed/fixed, but let's look at facts as it is. [b]note that many of my arguments apply only to the 5 ta quests in pso2 since i couldn't care less about regular gameplay.

1a)pso1 has longer quests
obviously more memorization and situational planning, requires more consistancy over a longer period of time

1b)pso2 quests have fewer spawns
goes hand in hand with the above. this isn't even worth quantifying since generally you have to kill every spawn in pso1 whereas skipping and not killing the majority is a thing in pso2. not that it matters because the melee is less complicated than the movement in pso2 but i digress...

1c)pso2 has fewer quests
granted this could change over time but unless they rectify the two points above the planning aspect won't reach the same levels as pso1

2a)pso1 melee isn't as safe
everything at a high level in pso2 ohkos, this simply isn't true in pso1. you need to plan around this fact and the positioning in quests reflect this. stuff like early walks can ruin runs

2b)in pso1 zoning/spacing is a thing
see above, plus the fact that positioning doesn't really matter in pso2 since you ohko from front back above what have you. pso1 you need to be aware of earlies and space your attacks so even if enemies do early you are safe and still kill them in an expedient manner. of course spacing matters in pso2 when trying to figure out how to efficiently get to a destination, but while you are killing an enemy it is not as much of an issue in the sense that it does not limit what you should do attack wise based on position.

3a)pso1 has spawn control
the entire aspect of when/not to control spawns is entirely absent since almost everything dies in a single combo. sure zondeel is a thing but it's used very differently than fts, arrest, confuse and dts.

3b)pso1 has multiple types of spawn control
only really relevant spawn control in pso2 is zondeel really. there is time trapping, prox trapping, trapshooting, griftering in pso1 for each of the three different traps. each have a purpose

4)pso1 has a great deal of variance in melee
there is a deal of this in pso2, but you don't see 20+ item inventories that you do in pso1 used over the course of a run.

5a)there is a huge disparity in the amount/variance in relevant gear between the two games
while pa's do give a deal of variety, having more relevant options muddies optimal choices in more complex situations. generally ta loadouts for pso1 contain 20+ pieces of gear that are a combination of weps and units. you obviously know the limits in pso2... this brings me to my next point

5b)pso1 has more situational utility gear
goes hand in hand with the next point, positioning this accordingly can make or break a quest because of how you sort. pso2 only has dashing gear for utility really

5c)pso1 has less optimized menuing
the menu switches in pso1 (especially the middle of the menu) are slow unless you "double" or know how to hold switches. this in combination with a great deal of more gear requires inventory optimization, sometimes even mid quest. how fast your switches are is only limited by player skill, not ping.

6) risk/reward
dark flow makes it so having less than 12.5% hp at any given time is favorable. this w/ the 2) are why i practically fall asleep playing pso2. multiple weapons deal more damage in classic pso when you are at low hp which is highly relevant. taking hits in pso2 does not end runs like it does in pso1. pso1 you get hit and it's re.

7) pb/nopb variance in planning
requires a more intimate understanding since your combos fundamentally change based on which mode of play you are taking part in. basically you need to relearn a great deal of the game in both modes w/ different increments of pb if you want optimal times.

i can keep going if you want but this is the tip of the iceberg. if you're curious enough (which you seem to be) you can always look up things on your own but you don't seem to understand that search engines exist.

edit: i don't think you've played pso1 so i'm not even sure this is worth arguing to you, but i'll post this anyway to highlight the points for whoever has played pso1 and 2 and needs a succinct summation.

Alukard

Apr 22, 2014, 12:10 PM

I don't even know why you replied to him 98. He certainly never ta'ed and won't understand any mentioned detail. We pointed at zynetics flaw, that was the whole point. His post was basically "nothing" but a callout or at best a request to us so we chew it down for him.

Zipzo

Apr 22, 2014, 12:47 PM

pso1 having a more mature[b/] meta is a fact. the game has been out for a decade. asides from glitches etc there is nothing new left since new quests aren't coming out and the gear/builds are set in stone. in pso2 there is new stuff coming out all the time, which means truly optimal routing etc hasn't been found yet. that should be self evident. the other point in that post is that taers understand the game better than people who don't ta. how difficult are either of these points to understand?

False. Knowing how to quickly run a TA does not make you more "meta". It just means you've memorized the switches and levers of a mission in order to understand how to finish it as quickly as possible. That's just a mission. Knowing how to do this for 4 other missions is also not "meta". This simply just makes you fast at running TA. Being able to adapt to random situations with spawns you do not have completely memorized is part of skill.

since you honestly want me to argue why pso1 (which wasn't one of my claims in that post) is deeper let's delve into facts. any of the below could change in pso2 if it's changed/fixed, but let's look at facts as it is. [b]note that many of my arguments apply only to the 5 ta quests in pso2 since i couldn't care less about regular gameplay.

Again, it's hilarious that you are basing your entire argument on the assumption that TAs are the literal, defined end game of PSO2, which anyone here could find laughable. It's worth noting that likely the most raw display of skill was inherent for that of people who ran c-Mode, and I've never seen you mention c-mode once, which is the first clue that you're just tooting a non-existent horn when you recollect on your leet PSO days, but let's go over your points though for good measure.

1a)pso1 has longer quests
obviously more memorization and situational planning, requires more consistancy over a longer period of time

They are completely different mission constructs. In PSO2, unless you're running a TA, XQ, TD, or an AQ, you're allowed to simply run around an MPA in circles for as long as you like killing respawns. PSO was more heavily based on a set of specific missions with set spawns. Yes, you could memorize them, basically making your runs more efficient. In a sense, everything you ran in PSO was based on set spawns unless you were doing basic area runs, in which case there were maybe 3-5 different variations that you could still just memorize. The issue here is once you hit level cap, you were waaaaaay past the point of any mission being any kind of real challenge. That's why people who were truly the challenge seekers turned to c-mode times.

That doesn't count as a point for PSO requiring more skill, they are simply different mechanical ideas on how to design missions in an MORPG. I will submit that I dislike PSO2's system of MPA's though.

1b)pso2 quests have fewer spawns
goes hand in hand with the above. this isn't even worth quantifying since generally you have to kill every spawn in pso1 whereas skipping and not killing the majority is a thing in pso2. not that it matters because the melee is less complicated than the movement in pso2 but i digress...

Agree. This is sort of hand in hand with my first point though, the free-roam MPA design kind of sucks. I much prefered a chain of rooms with enemies that needed to be dispatched in order to continue, because at least that made more sense than just skipping as many enemies as absolutely possible in order to get directly to the finish line...which seems a bit counter-intuitive to the whole point of a franchise like PSO...to kill things.

1c)pso2 has fewer quests
granted this could change over time but unless they rectify the two points above the planning aspect won't reach the same levels as pso1

Hm...well, it depends on what you mean by this. Do you mean less to do? For what purposes does the game have less to do? Leveling? Because there is by and large a "best" way to level in both games.

You seem to only partake and base your opinions on what makes up 5 missions out of hundreds in the entire game of PSO2, so I'm not sure exactly how you're the one to make this kind of criticism.

2a)pso1 melee isn't as safe
everything at a high level in pso2 ohkos, this simply isn't true in pso1. you need to plan around this fact and the positioning in quests reflect this. stuff like early walks can ruin runs

Depending on what level you were (out of 200 freaking levels in the end), one shots were pretty common in PSO as well. Falz swipe comes to mind. Tower flowers. Everything in PSO was basically about out-leveling content to the point where it didn't matter anymore.

Again, this is why c-mode was a thing.

2b)in pso1 zoning/spacing is a thing
see above, plus the fact that positioning doesn't really matter in pso2 since you ohko from front back above what have you. pso1 you need to be aware of earlies and space your attacks so even if enemies do early you are safe and still kill them in an expedient manner. of course spacing matters in pso2 when trying to figure out how to efficiently get to a destination, but while you are killing an enemy it is not as much of an issue in the sense that it does not limit what you should do attack wise based on position.

This seems like over analytic mumbo-jumbo. I steamrolled pretty much everything in PSO by doing the same thing we do in PSO2, point and smash.

3a)pso1 has spawn control
the entire aspect of when/not to control spawns is entirely absent since almost everything dies in a single combo. sure zondeel is a thing but it's used very differently than fts, arrest, confuse and dts.

3b)pso1 has multiple types of spawn control
only really relevant spawn control in pso2 is zondeel really. there is time trapping, prox trapping, trapshooting, griftering in pso1 for each of the three different traps. each have a purpose

I'm sorry...what exactly did PSO have in terms of mob control aside from traps? PSO2 has PSO beaten by a wide margin when it comes to mob manipulation. Zondeel is just the obvious one, there are countless PAs/Techs available (not all very effective in endgame) that are designed specifically to be mob control abilities (Razan, Ice TECHs, the new Double Saber PA, many WL PAs, etc).

Three out of four pieces of your argument are things having only to do with traps, which only CAST players could even use. I'll admit I have no idea what griftering is, so wax it up and call me a noob on that front but I certainly didn't have any issue getting shit done without ever hearing it.

4)pso1 has a great deal of variance in melee
there is a deal of this in pso2, but you don't see 20+ item inventories that you do in pso1 used over the course of a run.

This is plain false. The most items you needed to bring to any given mission as a melee class in PSO was a decent long and short ranged weapon (usually Handgun/Rifle and Mechs/Slicer accordingly), some kind of multi-hit weapon to spam flinch on fast attacking enemies with lots of health (Double Saber, Twin Daggers or Twin Sabers, any of which did the trick), and something for AOE or Cone-ranged damage (Sword most obviously and usually). That's essentially a pallet of 4 weapons for pretty much any available purpose in the game to suit any situation. Twenty item inventories? Can you even tell me what that was comprised of? I'm guessing not. There wasn't even 20 melee weapon types, not even close.

5a)there is a huge disparity in the amount/variance in relevant gear between the two games
while pa's do give a deal of variety, having more relevant options muddies optimal choices in more complex situations. generally ta loadouts for pso1 contain 20+ pieces of gear that are a combination of weps and units. you obviously know the limits in pso2... this brings me to my next point

5b)pso1 has more situational utility gear
goes hand in hand with the next point, positioning this accordingly can make or break a quest because of how you sort. pso2 only has dashing gear for utility really

Your first valid point/criticism.

In PSO2 you go straight for the weapon with the highest stat and the best latent to go with it. The only situation in which this differs is a few niche roles like melee techer. I have a wand suited for every single situation and area that is possible, and soon forces will be doing the same. PSU had this for any class, as you wanted rainbow pallets for every element weakness.

Maybe you should play a casting class until this element of game play is imparted to the melee classes?

5c)pso1 has less optimized menuing
the menu switches in pso1 (especially the middle of the menu) are slow unless you "double" or know how to hold switches. this in combination with a great deal of more gear requires inventory optimization, sometimes even mid quest. how fast your switches are is only limited by player skill, not ping.

Yeah I don't know what you're talking about with this at all. I could swap weapons faster in PSO than I could in PSO2. Once quick-equip came around in GC and remained throughout BB, changing weapons became ridiculously easy. You could even use items and techs not on your pallet through it. I had my TECHs set in an order on the list that I could basically use any TECH I wanted nearly instantly, without it being on either my control pallet or (in BB's case) the action bar.

6) risk/reward
dark flow makes it so having less than 12.5% hp at any given time is favorable. this w/ the 2) are why i practically fall asleep playing pso2. multiple weapons deal more damage in classic pso when you are at low hp which is highly relevant. taking hits in pso2 does not end runs like it does in pso1. pso1 you get hit and it's re.

Hm, so you cheated in PSO? Considering I highly doubt you had a legit Dark Flow (impossible). In any case, Dark Flow was seriously considered one of the worst weapons in the game due to it's single swing bs, are you seriously using that weapon as a basis for your risk/reward argument? There are many better examples you could have used to make your point, such as Lavis weapons, or any HP drain weapon. Melee TP drain weapons on force classes, but instead you chose something ridiculous and very telling.

7) pb/nopb variance in planning
requires a more intimate understanding since your combos fundamentally change based on which mode of play you are taking part in. basically you need to relearn a great deal of the game in both modes w/ different increments of pb if you want optimal times.

I don't see PBing as any different as it was in PSO. You hit a button, other people hit a button at the same-ish time and you can create stronger PB effects. In PSO the most popular PB was twins, and you couldn't use the same PB in a combo, so the only coordination necessary here was that people made sure they all using different PB's, with one person making sure to be the Twins-er. In PSO2 you need someone who has fish (preferrably multiple folks), and it requires literally the same sort of timing and planning in order to use fish to its maximum effect.

Different games, different mechanics, different positive beneficial effects used in different ways. You can't really compare them.

i can keep going if you want but this is the tip of the iceberg. if you're curious enough (which you seem to be) you can always look up things on your own but you don't seem to understand that search engines exist.

edit: i don't think you've played pso1 so i'm not even sure this is worth arguing to you, but i'll post this anyway to highlight the points for whoever has played pso1 and 2 and needs a succinct summation.

Most of the things you've posted here are subjective, not factual in the slightest, and highly based on your opinion and interpretation of the game looking back.

Again, your lack of mentioning c-mode at all makes me highly roll-eyes inclined to any sort of inference that you possessed some kind of modicum of skill in a game that was generally easy as shit no matter what mode you played in as long as you out-leveled the content (level 150 or so was a safe bet to god-mode pretty much everything).

btw-Niji

Apr 22, 2014, 12:54 PM

God damn it.

I thought I told you to go back to B20.

Alukard

Apr 22, 2014, 12:56 PM

I'll read your post, but I have to address that c-mode is rng mode ( random spawns ep1, random gear) and ep2 random gear. It's not fit for objective measurement at all and therefore c-mode TA sucks. Keep dreaming, this is just another remark of how little you understand about TA.

God damn it.

I thought I told you to go back to B20.

This.

Edit: Any remarks about being able to adapt on random spawns is purely retarded, since there is no way to measure that in a competitive way. I can hardly push myself to read further than that, maybe ill do later.

Zipzo

Apr 22, 2014, 12:57 PM

God damn it.

I thought I told you to go back to B20.

Can you please do this semi-worthless thread at least a small favor and post something of value, for once?

I'm not going to take anything you say seriously and you're just wasting finger effort to type out these one liners. I mean, let's be honest here, unless you're just having fun doing it, there's really no point.

I'll read your post, but I have to address that c-mode is rng mode ( random spawns ep1, random gear) and ep2 random gear. It's not fit for objective measurement at all and therefore c-mode TA sucks. Keep dreaming, this is just another remark of how little you understand about TA.

Being able to adapt to situations you don't have completely memorized is part of your skill as a player. Following pre-cognitive setups ad-nauseam is not skill.

Memorizing the periodic table of elements doesn't make you a scientist.

milranduil

Apr 22, 2014, 12:59 PM

Hm, so you cheated in PSO? Considering I highly doubt you had a legit Dark Flow (impossible). In any case, Dark Flow was seriously considered one of the worst weapons in the game due to it's single swing bs, are you seriously using that weapon as a basis for your risk/reward argument? There are many better examples you could have used to make your point, such as Lavis weapons, or any HP drain weapon. Melee TP drain weapons on force classes, but instead you chose something ridiculous and very telling.

Assuming we're talking about the popularized private BB server, PGF was a regular drop for several section IDs from Ult multimode Olga Flow, and therefore Dark Flow was a thing. Its combo was also unlocked to make it like a normal sword making it a lot more powerful.

I don't see PBing as any different as it was in PSO. You hit a button, other people hit a button at the same-ish time and you can create stronger PB effects. In PSO the most popular PB was twins, and you couldn't use the same PB in a combo, so the only coordination necessary here was that people made sure they all using different PB's, with one person making sure to be the Twins-er. In PSO2 you need someone who has fish (preferrably multiple folks), and it requires literally the same sort of timing and planning in order to use fish to its maximum effect.

He's not talking about the act of using PBs specifically and where is ideal to use them changing based on the mode you're playing in, equivalent to planning SUV usage in PSU. Yes, it requires planning; no, it's not difficult to figure it out. Also, you could use the same PB in a combo as long as it wasn't back to back in launch order e.g. twins estilla twins would successfully grant you 3-way S/D.

Zipzo

Apr 22, 2014, 01:04 PM

Assuming we're talking about the popularized private BB server, PGF was a regular drop for several section IDs from Ult multimode Olga Flow, and therefore Dark Flow was a thing. Its combo was also unlocked to make it like a normal sword making it a lot more powerful.

I assumed we were talking about "legit" PSO, back in its current. I can't speak for private server antics. I have no idea how that server is run, or what items are available, or whatever. PSU was already live, so it would seem kind of redundant to argue PSO mechanics from the perspective of a private server during a time it was not the latest iteration of the series.

He's not talking about the act of using PBs specifically and where is ideal to use them changing based on the mode you're playing in, equivalent to planning SUV usage in PSU. Yes, it requires planning; no, it's not difficult to figure it out. Also, you could use the same PB in a combo as long as it wasn't back to back in launch order e.g. twins estilla twins would successfully grant you 3-way S/D.

Well...yes, either way my point was that it's not really difficult in the same vein that doing it in PSO2 isn't.

Most of the time it made more sense to just pick a different PB from anyone else, so there were no tie ups since concentrating on when who launched what was a needless complexity to something you simply needed to get out of the way.

9898

Apr 22, 2014, 01:05 PM

False. Knowing how to quickly run a TA does not make you more "meta". It just means you've memorized the switches and levers of a mission in order to understand how to finish it as quickly as possible. That's just a mission. Knowing how to do this for 4 other missions is also not "meta". This simply just makes you fast at running TA. Being able to adapt to random situations with spawns you do not have completely memorized is part of skill.

Again, it's hilarious that you are basing your entire argument on the assumption that TAs are the literal, defined end game of PSO2, which anyone here could find laughable. It's worth noting that likely the most raw display of skill was inherent for that of people who ran c-Mode, and I've never seen you mention c-mode once, which is the first clue that you're just tooting a non-existent horn when you recollect on your leet PSO days, but let's go over your points though for good measure:

They are completely different mission constructs. In PSO2, unless you're running a TA, XQ, TD, or an AQ, you're allowed to simply run around an MPA in circles for as long as you like killing respawns. PSO was more heavily based on a set of specific missions with set spawns. Yes, you could memorize them, basically making your runs more efficient. In a sense, everything you ran in PSO was based on set spawns unless you were doing basic area runs, in which case there were maybe 3-5 different variations that you could still just memorize. The issue here is once you hit level cap, you were waaaaaay past the point of any mission being any kind of real challenge. That's why people who were truly the challenge seekers turned to c-mode times.

That doesn't count as a point for PSO requiring more skill, they are simply different mechanical ideas on how to design missions in an MORPG. I will submit that I dislike PSO2's system of MPA's though.

Agree. This is sort of hand in hand with my first point though, the free-roam MPA design kind of sucks. I much prefered a chain of rooms with enemies that needed to be dispatched in order to continue, because at least that made more sense than just skipping as many enemies as absolutely possible in order to get directly to the finish line...which seems a bit counter-intuitive to the whole point of a franchise like PSO...to kill things.

Hm...well, it depends on what you mean by this. Do you mean less to do? For what purposes does the game have less to do? Leveling? Because there is by and large a "best" way to level in both games.

You seem to only partake and base your opinions on what makes up 5 missions out of hundreds in the entire game of PSO2, so I'm not sure exactly how you're the one to make this kind of criticism.

Depending on what level you were (out of 200 freaking levels in the end), one shots were pretty common in PSO as well. Falz swipe comes to mind. Tower flowers. Everything in PSO was basically about out-leveling content to the point where it didn't matter anymore.

Again, this is why c-mode was a thing.

This seems like over analytic mumbo-jumbo. I steamrolled pretty much everything in PSO by doing the same thing we do in PSO2, point and smash.

I'm sorry...what exactly did PSO have in terms of mob control aside from traps? PSO2 has PSO beaten by a wide margin when it comes to mob manipulation. Zondeel is just the obvious one, there are countless PAs/Techs available (not all very effective in endgame) that are designed specifically to be mob control abilities (Razan, Ice TECHs, the new Double Saber PA, many WL PAs, etc).

Three out of four pieces of your argument are things having only to do with traps, which only CAST players could even use. I'll admit I have no idea what griftering is, so wax it up and call me a noob on that front but I certainly didn't have any issue getting shit done without ever hearing it.

This is plain false. The most items you needed to bring to any given mission as a melee class in PSO was a decent long and short ranged weapon (usually Handgun/Rifle and Mechs/Slicer accordingly), some kind of multi-hit weapon to spam flinch on fast attacking enemies with lots of health (Double Saber, Twin Daggers or Twin Sabers, any of which did the trick), and something for AOE or Cone-ranged damage (Sword most obviously and usually). That's essentially a pallet of 4 weapons for pretty much any available purpose in the game to suit any situation. Twenty item inventories? Can you even tell me what that was comprised of? I'm guessing not. There wasn't even 20 melee weapon types, not even close.

Your first valid point/criticism.

In PSO2 you go straight for the weapon with the highest stat and the best latent to go with it. The only situation in which this differs is a few niche roles like melee techer. I have a wand suited for every single situation and area that is possible, and soon forces will be doing the same. PSU had this for any class, as you wanted rainbow pallets for every element weakness.

Maybe you should play a casting class until this element of game play is imparted to the melee classes?

Yeah I don't know what you're talking about with this at all. I could swap weapons faster in PSO than I could in PSO2. Once quick-equip came around in GC and remained throughout BB, changing weapons became ridiculously easy. You could even use items and techs not on your pallet through it. I had my TECHs set in an order on the list that I could basically use any TECH I wanted nearly instantly, without it being on either my control pallet or (in BB's case) the action bar.

Hm, so you cheated in PSO? Considering I highly doubt you had a legit Dark Flow (impossible). In any case, Dark Flow was seriously considered one of the worst weapons in the game due to it's single swing bs, are you seriously using that weapon as a basis for your risk/reward argument? There are many better examples you could have used to make your point, such as Lavis weapons, or any HP drain weapon. Melee TP drain weapons on force classes, but instead you chose something ridiculous and very telling.

I don't see PBing as any different as it was in PSO. You hit a button, other people hit a button at the same-ish time and you can create stronger PB effects. In PSO the most popular PB was twins, and you couldn't use the same PB in a combo, so the only coordination necessary here was that people made sure they all using different PB's, with one person making sure to be the Twins-er. In PSO2 you need someone who has fish (preferrably multiple folks), and it requires literally the same sort of timing and planning in order to use fish to its maximum effect.

Different games, different mechanics, different positive beneficial effects used in different ways. You can't really compare them.

Most of the things you've posted here are subjective, not factual in the slightest, and highly based on your opinion and interpretation of the game looking back.

Again, your lack of mentioning c-mode at all makes me highly roll-eyes inclined to any sort of inference that you possessed some kind of modicum of skill in a game that was generally easy as shit no matter what mode you played in as long as you out-leveled the content (level 150 or so was a safe bet to god-mode pretty much everything).

i already stated that i only cared about ta and made points relevant to ta. why did you ignore that and talk about what is casual play in all points? i'm only talking about competitive play. c-mode is actually the most casual form of competitive play in pso1 since there is no risk involved and you play safely the entire time. i'm not even going to debunk the rest of your post becuase it contains numerous misunderstandings of both pso2/1 in terms of high level play. enjoy playing pso2, but i can assure you that when you are playing you are playing an entirely different game from me.

edit: my points are relevant to official servers too. pso1 is still more complex at high level play. even more gear is relevant (you have to mix primary dps between zb vj and tjs depending on situation, even single hit df is great for 1s dropping or 1h the first 3 lillies in lilly room in ma41c). i'm done though, i'll save knowledge for someone who's worth it. vanilla pso and gc pso are both still more complicated. v2 however, is not ;)

Zipzo

Apr 22, 2014, 01:06 PM

i already stated that i only cared about ta and made points relevant to ta. why did you ignore that and talk about what is casual play in all points? i'm only talking about competitive play. c-mode is actually the most casual form of competitive play in pso1 since there is no risk involved and you play safely the entire time. i'm not even going to debunk the rest of your post becuase it contains numerous misunderstandings of both pso2/1 in terms of high level play. enjoy playing pso2, but i can assure you that when you are playing you are playing an entirely different game from me.

Haha! I knew this would be your response!

"Clearly you don't understand my level of play".

That's exactly the response you were criticized for repeating to death, and here we are, back at square one. You're so predictable it's pathetic.

Alukard

Apr 22, 2014, 01:07 PM

You really have no clue about TA, please just go away zipi. Why did SEGA make quests with set spawns and call it "TA QUESTS" in pso2? There has to be a consistent basis in order for people to compare and you didn't understand that. Your concept of skill is retarded, you haven't seen any ta video of recent years from bb and yet you pretend like you'd know about the game.

Cyron Tanryoku

Apr 22, 2014, 01:07 PM

why is this thread still here

Zipzo

Apr 22, 2014, 01:08 PM

btw-Niji

Apr 22, 2014, 01:08 PM

why is this thread still here
Because Zitzo doesn't know when to stop posting.

gigawuts

Apr 22, 2014, 01:09 PM

why is this thread still here

I've been wondering why this wasn't FKLed since about an hour after it was posted.

Totori

Apr 22, 2014, 01:10 PM

I still can't believe someone would actually claim PSO1 took more skill than what PSO2 requires. PSO was and still is a breeze to run through.

9898

Apr 22, 2014, 01:11 PM

Haha! I knew this would be your response!

"Clearly you don't understand my level of play".

That's exactly the response you were criticized for repeating to death, and here we are, back at square one. You're so predictable it's pathetic.

but you didn't adequately respond to my points. do you want me to go through the time and trouble of outlining why your long post above has many inaccuracies? i can do this again, just for you sweetie.

The Walrus

Apr 22, 2014, 01:13 PM

Oh man this thread...

Zipzo

Apr 22, 2014, 01:14 PM

but you didn't adequately respond to my points. do you want me to go through the time and trouble of outlining why your long post above has many inaccuracies? i can do this again, just for you sweetie.

If you don't feel the points are even adequate enough to warrant a response, then this conversation is just over with you in the losing position.

I agreed to a few of your points, but several of your other ones I disagreed with and gave logistical and defining reasons why. Then you responded with "You clearly know nothing about the game". Typical of a so called "elitist", except you can't even manage to make very much sense with your claims. It's like you live in your own world or something where you speak your own made-up language, because I assure you, your logic is lost on the rest of us for the most part, and it isn't because we're all a bunch of bubbly PSO newbies with no idea how to play PSO "at a high level", trust me.

Triple_S

Apr 22, 2014, 01:14 PM

ShinMaruku

Apr 22, 2014, 01:15 PM

I've been wondering why this wasn't FKLed since about an hour after it was posted.

Because I never posted it. :P

Alukard

Apr 22, 2014, 01:18 PM

I still can't believe someone would actually claim PSO1 took more skill than what PSO2 requires. PSO was and still is a breeze to run through.

Feel free to elaborate your thought.

9898

Apr 22, 2014, 01:20 PM

If you don't feel the points are even adequate enough to warrant a response, then this conversation is just over with you in the losing position.

I agreed to a few of your points, but several of your other ones I disagreed with and gave logistical and defining reasons why. Then you responded with "You clearly know nothing about the game". Typical of a so called "elitist", except you can't even manage to make very much sense with your claims. It's like you live in your own world or something where you speak your own made-up language, because I assure you, your logic is lost on the rest of us for the most part, and it isn't because we're all a bunch of bubbly PSO newbies with no idea how to play PSO "at a high level", trust me.

i'm not an elitist, i'm just elite.

it's not a made up language either, it's the language of taers. if you've played vanilla pso or any other server you can come to the exact same conclusions as me. anyone can, they just need to adopt an efficient mentality and throw away your preconceptions about what you do and what is possible in the game.

Zipzo

Apr 22, 2014, 01:20 PM

I didn't read most of your post Zips (sorry, phone makes it a pain in the ass), but while skimming two things caught my eye:

1) Achieving fastest times requires knowledge of game function at a precise level in order to optimize well. Believe it or not I learn all of this stuff, even if my stance on forums tends to be "TAers shouldn't shit on others for not running the best of the best classes or whatever." A lot goes into a good TA run. I'd never say it's difficult (it's hard to really explain what I consider difficult; it's kind of an "abstract application" thing), but it's time-consuming and there's a lot to it. Hence, metagame.

I don't disagree with this, but it's not the entire game.

2) C-Mode was fun, but uh, the point wasn't just to beat it, it was to beat it fast. Fast clears meant S-Rank weapons, and those are awesome. So basically, you were encouraged to clear it fast because faster clears meant faster S-Ranks. Oh, and bragging rights. Personally I do find C-Mode TA a better display of skill over other methods, but that can be argued (even I can't say it with full confidence)

Uh, yeah, the whole point of c-mode was comparing times (which were recorded and available for you to compare to others). I can't tell if you're agreeing with me here or not...

3) Swapping gear mid-run was more than just weapons. Armor, shields, and slot items were important (though IIRC there weren't many reasons to swap out armor and slots), and working the menus fast was sometimes necessary.

Um...no? You never needed to switch armors/shields to handle anything. Units-wise, battle units were essentially the most defining units of tightening your game play. The other 3 slots could be whatever the fuck you wanted, shit would still fall over. Obviously most folks used power units (big surprise).

4) Dark Flow was pretty damn awful, and so was the special... Until people learned that the special swing when used point-blank acted like one hell of a shotgun. High risk, high reward; either they die or you do. Plus it was a decent multi-target attack at times.

Yeah, I don't know anybody who used this weapon seriously, so it still isn't a very good point made for high risk : high reward.

i'm not an elitist, i'm just elite.

Hahahahaha. Okay then. Hahahaha.

Totori

Apr 22, 2014, 01:21 PM

9898

Apr 22, 2014, 01:22 PM

Yeah, I don't know anybody who used this weapon seriously, so it still isn't a very good point made for high risk : high reward.

is this a serious argument? ignorance is not an argument that holds up and gives more credence to the fact that you don't know what you are talking about. you admitted you don't know what you're talking about but still say something is true. holy shit.

milranduil

Apr 22, 2014, 01:26 PM

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure both PGF and RR were both available legitimately on JP PSOBB.

Zipzo

Apr 22, 2014, 01:26 PM

is this a serious argument? ignorance is not an argument that holds up and gives more credence to the fact that you don't know what you are talking about. you even just said what i typed for me. holy shit.

Okay this is just comedy, I even made his signature.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure both PGF and RR were both available legitimately on JP PSOBB.

I don't think so, but I've certainly never found one, nor do I know anyone who ever has.

We can make Orans and go find out!

Totori

Apr 22, 2014, 01:26 PM

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure both PGF and RR were both available legitimately on JP PSOBB.

They weren't from what I remember.

Only usable from cheating or Private Servers.

DJcooltrainer

Apr 22, 2014, 01:27 PM

I still can't believe someone would actually claim PSO1 took more skill than what PSO2 requires. PSO was and still is a breeze to run through.
I agree with you here. It's not so much skill that PSO1 required, but a good understanding of how the game works.

I think the biggest 'skill' to have in both games is an in-depth understanding of the game mechanics and enemy attack patterns. Both PSO 1 and 2 rely a lot on understanding how the enemies are going to move/attack and using the right weapons/attacks at the right time.

Execution will come into play in things like TA when running for the best rankings, but for the most part it's all about knowing how the game plays. But overall, experience with the game is what will improve your 'skill' the most.

That's just my .0002 btc.

gigawuts

Apr 22, 2014, 01:27 PM

Currently considering skipping class to watch this thread.

edit:
Yes, PSO1's game wasn't actually PSO1 after not very long. PSO1's game was its metagame. The fun for me and everyone else I knew was planning routes to find items. The official game didn't include dropcharts and droprates, that shit was all mined and figured out by players. Those of us who came to PSOW and planned our section IDs out with calculators and shit didn't play PSO1 the game so much as PSO1's metagame, it's just after a few years the two became so intertwined that most don't even realize the difference.

9898

Apr 22, 2014, 01:27 PM

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure both PGF and RR were both available legitimately on JP PSOBB.

correct, they were. also these were given out privately from gms and became somewhat common depending on who you knew.

edit: i should add that even though df was combo locked it is still the single most powerful single target weapon in the game. 2s kills anything, and given there was less dmc than now it's arguably better than unlocked df in a great deal of situations

Alukard

Apr 22, 2014, 01:32 PM

Getting to end game, hands down was easier and still is. Combat was much more simpler if not the exactly same steps. Not getting hit was much easier. You rarely needed to change equipment, if even at all.

You didn't have to worry about any surprise bosses, slamming down out of nowhere. Classes back then were more like preset characters, unlike in PSO2 or PSU where you actually have more choices to customize a playstyle.

How is getting to endgame a criteria for efficiency in time attack? You didn't mention any details about "simpler combat", maybe I overheard you over the s-rolls and shunkas in the background. Pso2 is press one button to kill everything and even the dashing is easy. I play this game for 3 weeks now and I am able to penta at 300ms ping. I've seen a bunch of kids cry on this board how their latency makes it impossible. Latency issues exist, but it doesn't make it impossible. The only good players within the english community that I saw so far are the ta'ers from bb (zynetic, btw-niji) and the people affiliated with them. Those are also the ones holding the current records.

Random bosses slamming down is no biggie either, since wb makes them go down faster than you can type it's location. Not to mention that randomness isn't the appropriated basis to compete against others.

Consistency is what is needed for ta, randomness is exactly the opposite. Times are objective. The faster you can clear a quest with set spawns is the only objective way to measure skill in pso.

Edit: @98 2s on locked DF kill everything besides a few bosses and girtablulu

Zipzo

Apr 22, 2014, 01:34 PM

correct, they were. also these were given out privately from gms and became somewhat common depending on who you knew.

edit: i should add that even though df was combo locked it is still the single most powerful single target weapon in the game. 2s kills anything, and given there was less dmc than now it's arguably better than unlocked df in a great deal of situations

I'm not denying that the weapon was strong, it obviously possessed a high attack and its special was hilariously over the top.

It's just funny to think that you ran around singularly wielding a hacked Dark Flow and thought/still think you're the bad-ass PSO hunter of the century.

Seriously, it makes me giggle.

Totori

Apr 22, 2014, 01:37 PM

I dunno maybe just running behind the monster in PSO and attacking it, rinse and repeat. Combat was really that simple, bring ranged weapons into the mix only made it worse.

"You didn't mention any details about "simpler combat", maybe I overheard you over the s-rolls and shunkas in the background."

I don't have much experience with those skills. Since they aren't in my playstyle.

I'm talking about people saying PSO required skill in general over PSO2, that's even outside of TA'ing. The rest of the game is what I'm talking about.

"The only good players within the english community that I saw so far are the ta'ers from bb (zynetic, btw-niji) and the people affiliated with them. Those are also the ones holding the current records."

Oh god, don't make me laugh, "Good players"

9898

Apr 22, 2014, 01:37 PM

I'm not denying that the weapon was strong, it obviously possessed a high attack and its special was hilariously over the top.

It's just funny to think that you ran around singularly wielding a hacked Dark Flow and thought/still think you're the bad-ass PSO hunter of the century.

Seriously, it makes me giggle.
here we go with the name calling.
http://psobb.jp/memorial/report2/image/ss/14.jpg

there are multiple instances on sega's website of them showing characters using pgf items. why would sega put cheaters on the memorial website, zitzo?

edit: another pic for you, clearer
http://psobb.jp/memorial/report2/image/ss/42.jpg
edit: in case you didn't know, the item pictured is dark meteor, which can be made from an item "pgf" that you think is unobtainable. you're literally witch hunting and not knowing what is legit or not.

DJcooltrainer

Apr 22, 2014, 01:38 PM

The only good players within the english community that I saw so far are the ta'ers from bb (zynetic, btw-niji) and the people affiliated with them. Those are also the ones holding the current records.

Do you determine how 'good' someone is based on their TA scores? I know plenty of English speaking players with fantastic gear and great execution that have absolutely zero interest in holding TA records. I'm sorry that those are the only good players you've met so far, there are plenty more of them out there.

Alukard

Apr 22, 2014, 01:39 PM

Are you accusing him of being a cheater? PGF and RR dropped on SEGA jp servers after the US servers went down aswell. I'm not going to give sega credit for their gaming balance, since it was stupid anyway. Pso2 isnt balanced either. In vanilla bb ract and huct were dominating, with the changes from 3 years ago on the server it's just hucast. If you don't want to play it, so be it. It doesn't make it less psobb just because you don't want to accept it.

Zipzo

Apr 22, 2014, 01:40 PM

here we go with the name calling.
http://psobb.jp/memorial/report2/image/ss/14.jpg

there are multiple instances on sega's website of them showing characters using pgf items. why would sega put cheaters on the memorial website, zitzo?

edit: in case you didn't know, the item pictured is dark meteor, which can be made from an item "pgf" that you think is unobtainable. you're literally witch hunting and not knowing what is legit or not.

Yeah I know what Dark Meteor is, and I know what the Parasitic Gene Flow is too.

I bet you reco boxed. You have the attitude of a player who did absolutely nothing to achieve anything they did in PSO.

Alukard

Apr 22, 2014, 01:41 PM

Do you determine how 'good' someone is based on their TA scores? I know plenty of English speaking players with fantastic gear and great execution that have absolutely zero interest in holding TA records. I'm sorry that those are the only good players you've met so far, there are plenty more of them out there.

yes, the only good players that can call themself good are the ones that can objectively prove it. i.e ta

If you don't want to ta, don't claim to be good. If someone doesn't ta, don't claim he is good, you have no proof.

Zipzo

Apr 22, 2014, 01:43 PM

9898

Apr 22, 2014, 01:45 PM

Yeah I know what Dark Meteor is, and I know what the Parasitic Gene Flow is too.

I bet you reco boxed. You have the attitude of a player who did absolutely nothing to achieve anything they did in PSO.
ironically i have a lot of respect in terms of grind for people who reco box, that shit takes forever and is pretty efficient. but alas it's good only if you can't do 19+ remaining ma4cs consistently. even 16 or 17+ remaining ma4cs are faster than recoboxing. try harder ;)

Totori

Apr 22, 2014, 01:46 PM

yes, the only good players that can call themself good are the ones that can objectively prove it. i.e ta

If you don't want to ta, don't claim to be good. If someone doesn't ta, don't claim he is good, you have no proof.

Exploiting the game to get the best scores, isn't that of a good player. A lot of people don't care for killing and dashing through a stage as fast as possible, there are people who do like a bit of challenge.

DJcooltrainer

Apr 22, 2014, 01:46 PM

yes, the only good players that can call themself good are the ones that can objectively prove it. i.e ta

If you don't want to ta, don't claim to be good. If someone doesn't ta, don't claim he is good, you have no proof.

I'm sorry you have such a narrow view of the players in this game. There's a large group of people who have put a lot of time and effort into their characters and are really great to have in your party who just don't care about TA. If the only way you can view someone as a 'good' player is be their TA score, I guess I'm happy that I don't play with you. :lol: Just more fun for us!

9898

Apr 22, 2014, 01:46 PM

Exploiting the game to get the best scores, isn't that of a good player. A lot of people don't care for killing and dashing through a stage as fast as possible, there are people who do like a bit of challenge.

if it isn't a challenge then how come you can't do it? beat a record.

Zipzo

Apr 22, 2014, 01:51 PM

if it isn't a challenge then how come you can't do it? beat a record.

I'm sorry, what records do you hold or have you beaten? Can you give us a resume or at least a concise list so we can gape in awe at your pro gaming career?

Please cite proof.

Alukard

Apr 22, 2014, 01:53 PM

How exactly can you prove anything yourself?

Have any videos handy?

On psobb? I have records in any maximum attack, mu3 and mu4, some 2p'es, some solo's and in row, so yes. Most of them in pb and nopb. On pso2? No ta videos yet, I still need to reach lvl 65 on my main and sub-class, but considering that i can penta ( can record if you want to) and you don't makes it clear that unlike you I already posses the possibility and mentality to TA. Not to mention that my previous experience comes in handy in this aswell.

there is a troll vid up atm: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v-rjFR0mvpo

it's not a record run, this was merely supposed to be a joke, but this is still 2min faster than the previous record run and about 2mins slower than our current ( which we didn't release yet since there is new planning to it after doing no pb so it has to be redone).

I'll upload a more recent run of something for you, brb.

Totori

Apr 22, 2014, 01:53 PM

if it isn't a challenge then how come you can't do it? beat a record.

If we are talking about PSO2's TA's is because I can't stand to play in a manner that focused exploits, I prefer fun, but even with that, it doesn't mean TA's are challenging they are still extremely easy.

My playstyle isn't focused on rushing down the game, I prefer to enjoy what I do than rather focus on breaking some time record.

9898

Apr 22, 2014, 01:56 PM

I'm sorry, what records do you hold or have you beaten? Can you give us a resume or at least a concise list so we can gape in awe at your pro gaming career?

Please cite proof.

i have a few records, some i haven't posted videos or scores yet (4p and 2p ma4c e2, mu3 2p, mu1 1p, 4-4, ttf 2p, rt 4p) but i believe there is a public record of my old (not new) mu3 record that is on youtube. i have had a faster run since w/ the 3 hucast configuration. idc enough to find you anything relevant becuase you don't matter and anyone who does matter already knows my rap sheet. again, i don't play these games for fame, but to find other good players to compete against. i don't brag, i just state facts. don't need validation from casuals.

Alukard

Apr 22, 2014, 01:58 PM

If we are talking about PSO2's TA's is because I can't stand to play in a manner that focused exploits, I prefer fun, but even with that, it doesn't mean TA's are challenging they are still extremely easy.

My playstyle isn't focused on rushing down the game, I prefer to enjoy what I do than rather focus on breaking some time record.

How objective is your enjoyment and how can we compare to it? You must be the best player.

All I see is a bunch of "I's" revealing how subjective you are. I'll compete with u , np. I enjoy this game more than you!

Totori

Apr 22, 2014, 02:02 PM

How objective is your enjoyment and how can we compare to it? You must be the best player.

All I hear is a bunch of "I's" revealing on how subjective you are. I'll compete with u , np. I enjoy this game more than you!

I'm not into competition, no. I clearly wasn't ever stating that. My enjoyment I guess is limited to if I can have fun while doing something it counts. Where did you get that "Best Player" garbage from?

Since it's a game, I would rather think playing it for fun wouldn't be a bad thing, no?

Zipzo

Apr 22, 2014, 02:02 PM

On psobb? I have records in any maximum attack, mu3 and mu4, some 2p'es, some solo's and in row, so yes. Most of them in pb and nopb. On pso2? No ta videos yet, I still need to reach lvl 65 on my main and sub-class, but considering that i can penta ( can record if you want to) and you don't makes it clear that unlike you I already posses the possibility and mentality to TA. Not to mention that my previous experience comes in handy in this aswell.

there is a troll vid up atm: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v-rjFR0mvpo

it's not a record run, this was merely supposed to be a joke, but this is still 2min faster than the previous record run and about 2mins slower than our current ( which we didn't release yet since there is new planning to it after doing no pb so it has to be redone).

I'll upload a more recent run of something for you, brb.

Lmao, not only do you use a combo unlocked Dark Flow as a level 200 (full 200 party) on schtack server, but you act like running around in small circles swapping weapons occasionally is superior to anything you do in PSO2? Everything you are doing in that video is plebeian difficulty for both your party and your setup.

Hint : it's no fucking different.

As far as I'm concerned you have no record in anything, you and 95342 are just a lot of talk and *zero* delivery.

BTW I'm not doubting that you were a good PSO player (wasn't difficult to be), but show me some speed kills in Monster Hunter, THEN I'll be impressed.

That shit excuse for a video you just linked me is hilarious though.

i have a few records, some i haven't posted videos or scores yet (4p and 2p ma4c e2, mu3 2p, mu1 1p, 4-4, ttf 2p, rt 4p) but i believe there is a public record of my old (not new) mu3 record that is on youtube. i have had a faster run since w/ the 3 hucast configuration. idc enough to find you anything relevant becuase you don't matter and anyone who does matter already knows my rap sheet. again, i don't play these games for fame, but to find other good players to compete against. i don't brag, i just state facts. don't need validation from casuals.

Yada, yada, yada.

Nitro Vordex

Apr 22, 2014, 02:07 PM

idc enough to find you anything relevant becuase you don't matter and anyone who does matter already knows my rap sheet.
:lol:

Alukard

Apr 22, 2014, 02:09 PM

I'm not into competition, no. I clearly wasn't ever stating that. My enjoyment I guess is limited to if I can have fun while doing something it counts. Where did you get that "Best Player" garbage from?

Since it's a game, I would rather think playing it for fun wouldn't be a bad thing, no?

Alright, excuse me. You made a remark on how pso2 requires more skill, so I thought you would be able to elaborate your opinion with some facts. If you want to enjoy the game on a casual level, go at it. But I hope you can understand that any person, who wants to see facts in such a skill-comparison needs more than your subjective "way of playing". We simply can't compare your way of playing, because it's entirely subjective. So was your bb experience I assume.

We can compare the necessary abilities to get those times though.

SammyKiller

Apr 22, 2014, 02:09 PM

I can't believe this is still going.

Zipzo

Apr 22, 2014, 02:12 PM

9898

Apr 22, 2014, 02:13 PM

BTW I'm not doubting that you were a good PSO player (wasn't difficult to be), but show me some speed kills in Monster Hunter, THEN I'll be impressed.

how come no one else can do row that fast?

btw, (solo potl) b.diablos 2:20 heroics, no traps. maybe you should try to beat that time. mh is easier than pso at higher levels, especially in a team that knows what they are doing. not sure if this is still one of the better times as i haven't played in years but i highly doubt you have beaten this entry level time. only solo mh is at any extent difficult.

Totori

Apr 22, 2014, 02:13 PM

Alright, excuse me. You made a remark on how pso2 requires more skill, so I thought you would be able to elaborate your opinion with some facts. If you want to enjoy the game on a casual level, go at it. But I hope you can understand that any person, who wants to see facts in such a skill-comparison needs more than your subjective "way of playing". We simply can't compare your way of playing, because it's entirely subjective. So was your bb experience I assume.

We can compare the necessary abilities to get those times though.

And I still stand with it, PSO2 requires more skill to get through the game, yes. Boss fights and enemies are more diverse and have different attacks, when compared to the different varied creatures you'll come across in PSO.

PSO the combat is much more easier, it's harder to get hit. Beating a timer isn't skill, as I said anyone who would simply know it's a RPG, and exploits can really get you far. That's not being skillful.

Zipzo

Apr 22, 2014, 02:17 PM

how come no one else can do row that fast?

btw, (potl) b.diablos 2:20 heroics, no traps. maybe you should try to beat that time. mh is easier than pso at higher levels, especially in a team that knows what they are doing.

Oh Jesus you just don't get it do you.

Your word means jack when you talk as much soot as you do.

The board would like some cold, hard evidence that you are worth the headache of actually humoring, to which you never provide any, and instead fill that void with more ass-talk. You're a joke, you have nothing to show for any supposed skill. Not even knowledge.

Alukard

Apr 22, 2014, 02:21 PM

Lmao, not only do you use a combo unlocked Dark Flow as a level 200 (full 200 party) on schtack server, but you act like running around in small circles swapping weapons occasionally is superior to anything you do in PSO2? Everything you are doing in that video is plebeian difficulty for both your party and your setup.

Hint : it's no fucking different.

As far as I'm concerned you have no record in anything, you and 95342 are just a lot of talk and *zero* delivery.

BTW I'm not doubting that you were a good PSO player (wasn't difficult to be), but show me some speed kills in Monster Hunter, THEN I'll be impressed.

That shit excuse for a video you just linked me is hilarious though.

Yada, yada, yada.

well, the picture alone of that run caused a willd tumble within the pso-community in bb and ended in a bunch of requests for the video. The fact that you are in a tiny room with low hp and a bunch of monsters make it even more necessary for a precise and deep planning, because you'd die within one hit. I know , looking at everything dying makes it feel like it's easy. It's not. It is for me and I got proof of it.. Especially not crater 2 and desert 2. If pso was so easy, where are your records?

You can't even penta in pso2, here is a nice vid of a septa from my teammate revision: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oAyUoxr-1iA

It's slower than a penta, but hey it's fun to watch.

Maybe you have more enjoyment watching this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UQ9a4k6GQ9s

Just mentioning that the newest TA runs in bb are actually over a year old already lol

Alukard

Apr 22, 2014, 02:22 PM

And I still stand with it, PSO2 requires more skill to get through the game, yes. Boss fights and enemies are more diverse and have different attacks, when compared to the different varied creatures you'll come across in PSO.

PSO the combat is much more easier, it's harder to get hit. Beating a timer isn't skill, as I said anyone who would simply know it's a RPG, and exploits can really get you far. That's not being skillful.

We don't make any use of exploits in psobb and it's not beating a timer, it's beating someone else on the same basis.

9898

Apr 22, 2014, 02:25 PM

Oh Jesus you just don't get it do you.

Your word means jack when you talk as much soot as you do.

The board would like some cold, hard evidence that you are worth the headache of actually humoring, to which you never provide any, and instead fill that void with more ass-talk. You're a joke, you have nothing to show for any supposed skill. Not even knowledge.
do you even know any of the players in any of the videos posted in these vids? i think you will find me in one or two ^_^

DJcooltrainer

Apr 22, 2014, 02:26 PM

We don't make any use of exploits in psobb and it's not beating a timer, it's beating someone else on the same basis.

Not even bringing up menus to increase movement speed around enemies and traps? That's for sure an exploit of the in-game mechanics, and I'm pretty sure all of the best TA'ers did it. Just the same way dashing in PSO2 could be considered an exploit.

Zipzo

Apr 22, 2014, 02:26 PM

We don't make any use of exploits in psobb and it's not beating a timer, it's beating someone else on the same basis.

You have a habit of completely strawmaning everything back to the subject of TAs.

Totori entered the conversation under the pledge that PSO was more difficult than PSO2, and that's what they're referring to.

Your competitive kiddy races between you and a circle of 3 of your buddies that you claim to actually be world renowned is unrelated to the difficulty comparison.

Totori

Apr 22, 2014, 02:26 PM

We don't make any use of exploits in psobb and it's not beating a timer, it's beating someone else on the same basis.

You still are beating a timer, the timer being a clock, yes? Also you can't really be saying that not getting hit in PSO is actually hard?

Alukard

Apr 22, 2014, 02:32 PM

You still are beating a timer, the timer being a clock, yes? Also you can't really be saying that not getting hit in PSO is actually hard?

Wanna play with me? Maybe you'll show me how easy it is.

I don't think you ever heard of early walks, early warps, dmc, stun cancel etc. I don't want to be offensive, but your knowledge about psobb seems to be poor or you might have forgotten how the game works.

Using the menu to avoid being slowed down is considered an exploit, then so is using SNS on slicers. Guess we made use, should we stop penta'ing in pso2 now aswell?

Zipzo

Apr 22, 2014, 02:35 PM

do you even know any of the players in any of the videos posted in these vids? i think you will find me in one or two ^_^

Sure ya are, buddy.

9898

Apr 22, 2014, 02:36 PM

Sure ya are, buddy.

2/10

try harder

Alukard

Apr 22, 2014, 02:37 PM

Sure ya are, buddy.

Ugh, being critical is natural, but you are questioning the most obvious things now and it's only purpose is to cause more unneeded posting. Stop trolling zipzo.

DJcooltrainer

Apr 22, 2014, 02:39 PM

Using the menu to avoid being slowed down is considered an exploit, then so is using SNS on slicers. Guess we made use, should we stop penta'ing in pso2 now aswell?

Nah I've got no problem with exploits if people take the time to learn how to use them properly. I just don't think people should go around saying they didn't make use of any exploits, when practically all of the best TA'ers do.

Totori

Apr 22, 2014, 02:39 PM

Wanna play with me? Maybe you'll show me how easy it is.

I don't think you ever heard of early walks, early warps, dmc, stun cancel etc. I don't want to be offensive, but your knowledge about psobb seems to be poor or you might have forgotten how the game works.

Using the menu to avoid being slowed down is considered an exploit, then so is using SNS on slicers. Guess we made use, should we stop penta'ing in pso2 now aswell?

If I had my data to PSO, sure I'll show you how easy it is to move out of a monsters way.

I don't know the terms that you have mentioned, as they aren't commonly used game terms, or were even explained in the tutorials of PSO at all.

infiniteeverlasting

Apr 22, 2014, 02:40 PM

Ugh, being critical is only natural, but you are questioning the most obvious things now and it's only purpose is to cause more unneeded posting. Stop trolling zipzo.

its not just zipzo, its also this 9898(watthefuckisthisnumber?) guy + btw-eugene guy. they need to stop fighting. every post i see, is see them together, its like one is tsundere and can't admit their love for eachother, and they're having a prolonged couple argument. now isn't that cute :3

Alukard

Apr 22, 2014, 02:43 PM

Nah I've got no problem with exploits if people take the time to learn how to use them properly. I just don't think people should go around saying they didn't make use of any exploits, when practically all of the best TA'ers do.

Agreed, It's just so natural and important that I've never thought of it as an exploit. But in the end, sega probably never meant it to work that way so it's an exploit.

DJcooltrainer

Apr 22, 2014, 02:47 PM

Agreed, It's just so natural and important that I've never thought of it as an exploit. But in the end, sega probably never meant it to work that way so it's an exploit.

At the same time, Sega could have also fixed it if they really didn't like it. I think they leave some of these exploits in the game because players come to rely on them after figuring them out. That's why I have no problem with people taking advantage of it. Sega is either super lazy, or is aware people are abusing the dashing mechanics and doesn't find it to be a problem.

Alukard

Apr 22, 2014, 02:50 PM

If I had my data to PSO, sure I'll show you how easy it is to move out of a monsters way.

I don't know the terms that you have mentioned, as they aren't commonly used game terms, or were even explained in the tutorials of PSO at all.

Early walk: Monsters usually have a spawning animation. It can happen ( about every run atleast once and it's clientside) so that the enemy doesn't do its spawning animation and slaps you on spawn. If you are in front of it, you are dead. That's why positioning is so important.

Early warps: refer to episode 4 monsters in desert. Goran's, Pyro Goran's and detonators can warp on spawn. This is a form of early-walk since those monsters have also a spawning animation. These monsters are especially vicious, because they have increased attack range.

Stun-cancel: Every hit stuns an enemy. But a hit from a different person can unstun it on your client and make you vulnerable to it so it hits you.

DMC: Damage cancel. Damage cancel is a major problem in psobb due to the bad netcode. TA'ers know their combo kills. they use whatever is fastest to kill and they know exactly which combo kills what enemy. If someone attacks the same enemy your damage might get cancled leaving you vulnerable to the enemy. DMC is a major issue in episode 4, because of the gifoie surrounding the whole area. Episode 4 is probably the hardest, because gifoie damage cancels you alot and stun cancels. Episode 1 is the easiest, episode 2 is harder than episode 1 but easier than episode 4.

Zipzo

Apr 22, 2014, 02:56 PM

Ugh, being critical is natural, but you are questioning the most obvious things now and it's only purpose is to cause more unneeded posting. Stop trolling zipzo.

I'm sorry but when you actually, finally end up learning what trolling is, that's when this will stop.

When you, niji, and 92244 put a cork in it, this will stop. As long as the lot of you keep up your hilarious visage of super pro PSO leet-ness, the fun will never stop.

I question baseless nonsense, especially the kind that gets hitched to elitist fog-horning with absolutely zero validation. Which is everything you and the aforementioned posters love to spew.

The *natural* thing to do would be to provide logical and reasonable evidence to support grandiose bullshit claims, but oh no, keep doing what you're doing.

its not just zipzo, its also this 9898(watthefuckisthisnumber?) guy + btw-eugene guy. they need to stop fighting. every post i see, is see them together, its like one is tsundere and can't admit their love for eachother, and they're having a prolonged couple argument. now isn't that cute :3

Bro, I can't shake 'em. It's more accurate to say that Eugene is un-wantingly attached to my hip. He likes to make cute one liners every time I post. I wish I had time to take care of him but I simply haven't the effort readily available.

Triple_S

Apr 22, 2014, 02:57 PM

Holy shit, this thread is a mess.

I didn't realize how many people don't really understand TA or some of the more well-known PSO mechanics, even if some if them are fucking stupid (see: damage cancel making offensive FO even less useful in ult)

Walkure

Apr 22, 2014, 02:58 PM

So uh, when can we expect new speedruns on TA maps in PSO2? It'd be nice to see some creative usages of attacks/PAs to shave off time. The 5~6m RA soloing VHTA (iirc) and a ~7m FO/BR SHTA run were some neat runs, and I'd like to see more runs like those.

The vids of previous games are nice, but I haven't really played them nor have much of a chance to get involved in it much, so I doubt I'd be able to grok the nuances in gameplay that make or break a TA.

Totori

Apr 22, 2014, 02:58 PM

Early walk: Monsters usually have a spawning animation. It can happen ( about every run atleast once and it's clientside) so that the enemy doesn't do its spawning animation and slaps you on spawn. If you are in front of it, you are dead. That's why positioning is so important.

Early warps: refer to episode 4 monsters in desert. Goran's, Pyro Goran's and detonators can warp on spawn. This is a form of early-walk since those monsters have also a spawning animation. These monsters are especially vicious, because they have increased attack range.

Stun-cancel: Every hit stuns an enemy. But a hit from a different person can unstun it on your client and make you vulnerable to it so it hits you.

DMC: Damage cancel. Damage cancel is a major problem in psobb due to the bad netcode. TA'ers know their combo kills. they use whatever is fastest to kill and they know exactly which combo kills what enemy. If someone attacks the same enemy your damage might get cancled leaving you vulnerable to the enemy. DMC is a major issue in episode 4, because of the gifoie surrounding the whole area. Episode 4 is probably the hardest, because gifoie damage cancels you alot and stun cancels. Episode 1 is the easiest, episode 2 is harder than episode 1 but easier than episode 4.

Thanks for the ever-so useful term info, I guess...? Still going with what I said, you really just gotta move out of the way to not get hit.

Zipzo

Apr 22, 2014, 03:03 PM

9898

Apr 22, 2014, 03:03 PM

92244hey that's a bigger number must mean my view count or leetness or something went up

What exactly is there left to understand about TA?
everything for you, less for others

Alukard

Apr 22, 2014, 03:03 PM

It isn't baseless we already linked you to videos. If you don't know us, we just told you who we are. If you don't know anything about psobb and if you don't know the pso2 ta'ers ( niji), then it's just you willing to stay ignorant and defying all evidence. Just because you don't know, doesn't make it less true that we are actually holding records.

If you want to see more videos, just ask me. Or just check that one account where I linked the ma4c ep4 , he has a ton of videos from older times.

Z-0

Apr 22, 2014, 03:04 PM

You talk to people like you mean something, though.

I don't mean anything just because I can TA on PSO2.

Grow up.

9898

Apr 22, 2014, 03:07 PM

You talk to people like you mean something, though.

I don't mean anything just because I can TA on PSO2.

Grow up.

good thing you're as irrelevant as ever. it's cute how you're trying to get buddy buddy with brandon now. you know he is only playing with you to get access to good players who aren't on my team due to differences from pso2. he'll probably take the best players and start his own team. all the power to him, looking forward to competing against him in this game. hope he has a team as good as him this time, in bb he was unfortunately better than the rest of his team.

the entire reason you ta is ego, and everytime it's shattered you run away. you ran away from bb multiple times. oh well, when brandon and co betray you this time it will be even funnier. how about you preemptively grow up so you'll cry less later.

Alukard

Apr 22, 2014, 03:07 PM

You talk to people like you mean something, though.

I don't mean anything just because I can TA on PSO2.

Grow up.

I take that as a compliment. I never said I mean something, I barely pointed out the given facts. I guess you concluded to your assumption, because of your interpretation of the given facts.

Z-0

Apr 22, 2014, 03:08 PM

Believe whatever you want, son.

Alukard

Apr 22, 2014, 03:09 PM

Believe whatever you want, son.

Yes, I believe in your 15'24.

9898

Apr 22, 2014, 03:14 PM

Believe whatever you want, son.
you're younger, you ARE my son. the father being me, god.

edit: i believe that your nopb ma4c personal best is literally slower than an average run. i could probably do any amount of runs within my team, nearly any class config asides all fo and get that time.

Alukard

Apr 22, 2014, 03:18 PM

you're younger, you ARE my son. the father being me, god.

edit: i believe that your nopb ma4c personal best is literally slower than an average run. i could probably do any amount of runs within my team, nearly any class config asides all fo and get that time.

that wouldnt be fair considering the update. A 3p though? Oh wait, we already beat his time 3p by far.

cg on being a pso2 ta'er zyn. If i start playing pso2, will you run again? Also would you be so kind and post a vid of you septa'ing? to be frank, I haven't seeny ou penta either, but considering how easy it is, ill give you the benefit of the doubt, son.

Zipzo

Apr 22, 2014, 03:19 PM

9898

Apr 22, 2014, 03:20 PM

I don't want to shoot you down or anything, but your videos of performance in PSO neither prove you are a leet gamer, nor win you any argument over which game is more difficult.

Back to square one I guess?

the discussion has moved on buddy. it's trash talk zynetic time.

Alukard

Apr 22, 2014, 03:20 PM

ok zipzo

SammyKiller

Apr 22, 2014, 03:21 PM

the discussion has moved on buddy. it's trash talk zynetic time.

What a bad parent. :(

AlexCraig

Apr 22, 2014, 03:23 PM

Enough of this bullshit. Get your attitudes in line. Nobody cares who is "best". "Best" is an opinionated word. If you think you're great, fine. But we don't need an entire thread derailed by a bunch of off-topic comments and in-fighting. This thread is locked. Check your inboxes.