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View Full Version : What is the strongest PA for the following weapons?



frheekier
Apr 21, 2014, 07:09 PM
Assault Rifle-
Twin Machineguns-
Bullet Bow-

Sizustar
Apr 21, 2014, 07:10 PM
Satelite Riser for rifle
Bullet bow, wait for 4/23 update and see how the new PA is

gigawuts
Apr 21, 2014, 07:13 PM
Assault Rifle: Diffuse Shell, Satellite Cannon, and Impact Slider are the moves everyone loves. Parallel Slider is also nice, and Homing Emission is also still strong. One Point is about to receive a pretty nice buff too.
Twin Machineguns: Heel Stab, Infinity Fire, Elder Rebellion, Messiah Time, and Shift Period are all heavy hitters, and are all pretty versatile.
Bullet Bow: Master Shoot is versatile and strong, Kamikaze Arrow is pretty great, Banish Arrow is a great way to boost your damage, and Last Nemesis is strong but slow. Also Shunka. What? Half the time, even on a bow spec, Shunka is going to be a great option.

Horo The Wise Wolf
Apr 21, 2014, 07:14 PM
Rifle: Depends on the situation really. Impact Slider, Satellite Riser, and Diffuse shell are really good.

Mechs: Same as Rifle. However Shift Period and Infinite fire are really good. Other PAs to experiment with are Heel Stab, Messiah Time, and Elder Rebellion.

Bows: I have no experience with these. However a Banishing arrow followed by something to do huge damage seems common.

pkemr4
Apr 21, 2014, 07:34 PM
HE works good if you know how to use it as a shotgun for rifles (i suck at doing it vs fordonsa, sol dirandal, banthers)

UnLucky
Apr 21, 2014, 07:34 PM
Well Kamikaze Arrow is Striking damage, so if you're playing as Br/Ra it won't be that great.

Also the kicks with TMGs are also that way, so Gu/Ra will do less damage for those.

Kondibon
Apr 21, 2014, 09:01 PM
Well Kamikaze Arrow is Striking damage, so if you're playing as Br/Ra it won't be that great.

Also the kicks with TMGs are also that way, so Gu/Ra will do less damage for those.
Isn't the first hit ranged damage and the second striking? I remember getting headshot bonuses with it.

gigawuts
Apr 21, 2014, 09:22 PM
Isn't the first hit ranged damage and the second striking? I remember getting headshot bonuses with it.

This gets complicated.

The short of it is, all gun and bow PAs will get hitbox bonuses. Heads are a flat 2x bonus damage to all ratk attacks.

Weak Hit Advance requires that your attack be an actual bullet or other projectile. It has to come from the barrel of a firearm or be an arrow fired by a bow. Kicks? No. Punches? No. Stabs? No. Those don't get Weak Hit Advance. Instead, those count as striking type moves. They don't use satk, but they get striking multipliers like the larger Fury Stance bonus, and other striking-only bonuses such as chase bind.

It's a very convoluted, unintuitive, badly designed system with glaring flaws.

Xaeris
Apr 21, 2014, 09:42 PM
While they could do more to make these things transparent, like writing more detailed tooltips, "kicks count as striking and not shooting" seems pretty intuitive to me. The weird (but good) thing is that it uses R-Atk.

Macman
Apr 21, 2014, 09:45 PM
This gets complicated.

The short of it is, all gun and bow PAs will get hitbox bonuses. Heads are a flat 2x bonus damage to all ratk attacks.

Weak Hit Advance requires that your attack be an actual bullet or other projectile. It has to come from the barrel of a firearm or be an arrow fired by a bow. Kicks? No. Punches? No. Stabs? No. Those don't get Weak Hit Advance. Instead, those count as striking type moves. They don't use satk, but they get striking multipliers like the larger Fury Stance bonus, and other striking-only bonuses such as chase bind.

It's a very convoluted, unintuitive, badly designed system with glaring flaws.
Not that it matters, but why do Talises get headshot bonuses? Are they r-atk?

Kondibon
Apr 21, 2014, 09:45 PM
This gets complicated.

The short of it is, all gun and bow PAs will get hitbox bonuses. Heads are a flat 2x bonus damage to all ratk attacks.

Weak Hit Advance requires that your attack be an actual bullet or other projectile. It has to come from the barrel of a firearm or be an arrow fired by a bow. Kicks? No. Punches? No. Stabs? No. Those don't get Weak Hit Advance. Instead, those count as striking type moves. They don't use satk, but they get striking multipliers like the larger Fury Stance bonus, and other striking-only bonuses such as chase bind.

It's a very convoluted, unintuitive, badly designed system with glaring flaws.Last time I checked, I DON'T get the ranged damage bonus with striking damage attacks on ANY PA so I'm not sure why you're clarifying that.

I know different skills and hitboxes apply to different types of damage. I'm saying that the first hit deals ranged damage and thus would get bonuses from things that increase ranged damage like headshots or weak hit advanced, but the second hit is striking damage. I say this because there are plenty of times when I hit something square in the head and the first hit deals twice as much as the second, but if I hit an enemy somewhere else they're about equal.

gigawuts
Apr 21, 2014, 09:54 PM
Not that it matters, but why do Talises get headshot bonuses? Are they r-atk?

They don't. They just play the hitsound.

Actually, talises get striking bonuses.

Yes, talises benefit from fury stance's larger bonus and work with chase advance & chase bind.


Last time I checked, I DON'T get the ranged damage bonus with striking damage attacks on ANY PA so I'm not sure why you're clarifying that.

I know different skills and hitboxes apply to different types of damage. I'm saying that the first hit deals ranged damage and thus would get bonuses from things that increase ranged damage like headshots or weak hit advanced, but the second hit is striking damage. I say this because there are plenty of times when I hit something square in the head and the first hit deals twice as much as the second, but if I hit an enemy somewhere else they're about equal.

I can't attest to which qualifies for Weak Hit Advance, however I can attest that as far as I'm aware both should be getting the headshot damage bonus.

edit:

While they could do more to make these things transparent, like writing more detailed tooltips, "kicks count as striking and not shooting" seems pretty intuitive to me. The weird (but good) thing is that it uses R-Atk.

The multiplier categorization makes sense in this specific instance, but it fails to make the same kind of sense for thrown cards getting striking multipliers, wand gear explosions (which are very clearly meant to look like techs) qualify for striking bonuses, etc.

Then Sonic Arrow, which is blatantly a projectile, doesn't qualify for projectile skills and is purely striking. Same with Sacred Skewer. While yes, that's better that way from a gameplay standpoint, it doesn't make any sense when other things are all up in Striking's bizniss.

Kondibon
Apr 21, 2014, 10:07 PM
I can't attest to which qualifies for Weak Hit Advance, however I can attest that as far as I'm aware both should be getting the headshot damage bonus.I just spent a few minutes testing it. The first one definately does, the second doesn't. I actually like PAs that deal multiple damage types though and I think more melee weapon PAs and some techs should too. To help balance hybridizing more.

gigawuts
Apr 21, 2014, 10:09 PM
Try equipping an satk mag and an ratk mag, then no mag at all, to see what happens then.

pkemr4
Apr 21, 2014, 10:13 PM
is heel stab strike damage and ranged damage?

gigawuts
Apr 21, 2014, 10:15 PM
is heel stab strike damage and ranged damage?

Heel Stab is all ratk.

The kicks are strike multipliers.

Multipliers and atk are not the same thing. They're separate. They don't actually indicate this in any descriptions (which they seriously should), but the numbers demonstrate this unequivocally.

Kondibon
Apr 21, 2014, 10:16 PM
Try equipping an satk mag and an ratk mag, then no mag at all, to see what happens then.I don't see why my mag would matter since headshot damage is relative. I didn't JUST test headshots. I also used it on normal areas. I was using it on gulfs and if I wanted a normal shot then I'd hit them in the butt.


is heel stab strike damage and ranged damage?
Yes. The kicks are striking damage and the shooting is ranged damage.


Heel Stab is all ratk.

The kicks are strike multipliers.

Multipliers and atk are not the same thing. They're separate. They don't actually indicate this, but the numbers demonstrate this unequivocally.pkemr4 said damage, not atk. We really need to standardize a nomenclature for this because I think that's the whole reason we're having problems explaining things to everyone.

EDIT: To clarify, when I see or use the word "Damage" in these context I'm taking it to mean the damage type being output. NOT the stat.

gigawuts
Apr 21, 2014, 10:19 PM
I don't see why my mag would matter since headshot damage is relative. I didn't JUST test headshots. I also used it on normal areas. I was using it on gulfs and if I wanted a normal shot then I'd hit them in the butt.


Yes. The kicks are striking damage and the shooting is ranged damage.

pkemr4 said damage, not atk. We really need to standardize a nomenclature for this because I think that's the whole reason we're having problems explaining things to everyone.

You quoted a post with two different statements and replied to only one, so I assumed you were replying to the last one.

You're saying one gets Weak Hit Advance, but the other doesn't? Or are you saying one gets headshot bonus damage, but the other doesn't?

The only way one would get the headshot bonus damage while the other does not is if the other does not use ratk.

I don't see why my mag would matter since headshot damage is relative. I didn't JUST test headshots. I also used it on normal areas. I was using it on gulfs and if I wanted a normal shot then I'd hit them in the butt.


Yes. The kicks are striking damage and the shooting is ranged damage.

pkemr4 said damage, not atk. We really need to standardize a nomenclature for this because I think that's the whole reason we're having problems explaining things to everyone.

EDIT: To clarify, when I see or use the word "Damage" in these context I'm taking it to mean the damage type being output. NOT the stat.

I have tried several times to get people to describe "striking multipliers" as just plain "contact" or "physical contact." Those terms are pretty clear. If you physically contact a target, it gets such-and-such multipliers regardless of atk.

Kondibon
Apr 21, 2014, 10:23 PM
You quoted a post with two different "or" statements and replied to only one, so I assumed you were replying to the last one.

You're saying one gets Weak Hit Advance, but the other doesn't? Or are you saying one gets headshot bonus damage, but the other doesn't?

The only way one would get the headshot bonus damage while the other does not is if the other does not use ratk.I'm saying one gets the head shot bonuses and the other doesn't. R-atk (the stat) doesn't factor into this at all, only the output damage type. Like the skills, hitboxes check the damage type not the stat the damage scales off.



I have tried several times to get people to describe "striking multipliers" as just plain "contact" or "physical contact." Those terms are pretty clear. If you physically contact a target, it gets such-and-such multipliers regardless of atk.The names of the stats need to change more than anything. Changing striking to contact doesn't make anything more or less clear. Sriking damage is still resisted by sriking defense, Ranged damage is still resisted by ranged defense etc, but Ranged attack isn't always used for ranged damage. I personally don't mind just calling them attack, damage, and defense, but having the attacks tied to the damage and defense in name is what causes the confusion, not the damage havin the same names. Does that make sense?

gigawuts
Apr 21, 2014, 10:26 PM
I'm saying one gets the head shot bonuses and the other doesn't. R-atk (the stat) doesn't factor into this at all, only the output damage type. Like the skills, hitboxes check the damage type not the stat the damage scales off.

This is patently false.

edit: Hold on, my example wound up being false when I tested it. I'm going to try out kamikaze arrow myself to get a look at this as well.

infiniteeverlasting
Apr 21, 2014, 10:28 PM
This gets complicated.

The short of it is, all gun and bow PAs will get hitbox bonuses. Heads are a flat 2x bonus damage to all ratk attacks.

Weak Hit Advance requires that your attack be an actual bullet or other projectile. It has to come from the barrel of a firearm or be an arrow fired by a bow. Kicks? No. Punches? No. Stabs? No. Those don't get Weak Hit Advance. Instead, those count as striking type moves. They don't use satk, but they get striking multipliers like the larger Fury Stance bonus, and other striking-only bonuses such as chase bind.

It's a very convoluted, unintuitive, badly designed system with glaring flaws.

Then how does over end work? I heard it uses t-atk from somewhere but doubt it's true

Kondibon
Apr 21, 2014, 10:32 PM
Then how does over end work? I heard it uses t-atk from somewhere but doubt it's trueIt uses s-atk to deal striking damage. This whole thing really only applies to ranged weapons and gunslashes, but gunslashes change the stat they use too... I think. I'm not sure.

gigawuts
Apr 21, 2014, 10:44 PM
I'm saying one gets the head shot bonuses and the other doesn't. R-atk (the stat) doesn't factor into this at all, only the output damage type. Like the skills, hitboxes check the damage type not the stat the damage scales off.


This is patently false.

edit: Hold on, my example wound up being false when I tested it. I'm going to try out kamikaze arrow myself to get a look at this as well.

Nope, looks like that's patently true. I didn't test with Kamikaze Arrow, but I did test with Heel Stab. I wonder where I got that confused. It's fun being wrong for a change.

Kondibon
Apr 21, 2014, 10:48 PM
Nope, looks like that's patently true. I didn't test with Kamikaze Arrow, but I did test with Heel Stab. I wonder where I got that confused. It's fun being wrong for a change.Honestly. I only noticed because my Kamikazi would randomly do more damage so I tried it out more. It's likely most people didn't catch it, because most of the PAs that have multiple damage types don't hit heads or whatever well in the first place.

UnLucky
Apr 21, 2014, 11:02 PM
Sriking damage is still resisted by sriking defense, Ranged damage is still resisted by ranged defense etc, but Ranged attack isn't always used for ranged damage. I personally don't mind just calling them attack, damage, and defense, but having the attacks tied to the damage and defense in name is what causes the confusion, not the damage havin the same names. Does that make sense?

The attacker's S-Atk is compared to the target's S-Def
Striking Damage is modified by Striking Resistance

As far as I know it, heads have lower Ranged Resistance, so they take double damage from Ranged attacks. Striking Damage, S-Atk, or R-Atk doesn't matter, it won't get the bonus if it's not Ranged Damage.

GoldenFalcon
Apr 21, 2014, 11:33 PM
But I like Penetrate Arrow

omgwtflolbbl
Apr 22, 2014, 12:29 AM
Where does Impact Slider 16 drop? SH Burn Draal?

Sandmind
Apr 22, 2014, 12:45 AM
Where does Impact Slider 16 drop? SH Burn Draal?

Yes. I would recommend SHAQ volcano for it.

starwhisper
Apr 22, 2014, 04:24 AM
Yes. I would recommend SHAQ volcano for it.

Free field volcano in super hard is very good too! And you dont need to use dozens of caps ;)
I got my lv16 in free field on my 3rd day of burn draal hunting.

gigawuts
Apr 22, 2014, 07:54 AM
Free field volcano in super hard is very good too! And you dont need to use dozens of caps ;)
I got my lv16 in free field on my 3rd day of burn draal hunting.

Congrats!

I know people who killed dozens of burns before finding even one impact slider 16, myself included.

I sure had safoie 16 for days though.

KazukiQZ
Apr 22, 2014, 10:45 AM
My lv16 Impact Slider was from a 3 hours long hunting Burn Draal with a friend, and after over a dozen of Vols, the 1st Burn Draal gave me 2 lv16 discs :D
Which I don't know where the 2nd one had gone to...

AkumaYouji
Apr 22, 2014, 11:27 PM
I really like doing Banish arrow followed by last nemesis, and it does alot of damge for ME at least. This way the last nemesis does 13k and then the banish arrow follows up with another 10-15k+ explosion (I probably suck but 25k is a lot of damage for me in 2 hits). If you don't like last nemesis, using master shoot after banish arrow doesn't require the huge vulnerable period of last nemesis.