Ideas to improve the lacking areas of Skill Trees.

[Takatsuki]

That is to say, the parts of the skill tree that nobody ever touches - entire potential builds that get ignored because they simply cannot compete with the main 1 or 2 builds. How can we improve those areas?

I had a few ideas...

Hunter - Guard Stance Build
The obvious problem with the Guard Stance side of the tree is that it lacks DPS, which is PSO2's entire thing. So how can we give it some damage whilst staying true to the concept of Guard Stance? Obviously it will not do as much damage as the Fury Stance side of the tree, but perhaps we can do something with these skills I've come up with...

1. Guard JG Advance - When in Guard Stance, the damage returned to an enemy by successfully performing a Just Guard will be greatly increased.
2. Guard Counter Advance - When in Guard Stance, the damage dealt from a Just Counter (that is, the next attack immediately after a Just Guard) will be greatly increased.
3. Guard Shield - When in Guard Stance, when you successfully Just Guard an attack, a field will appear behind you. All allies in this field will be immune to damage, but it will only last for a moment. Essentially it makes you a protective wall.
4. Guard Lance - Requires Guard Shield. When Guard Shield is activated, all allies within the Guard Shield field will gain a temporary attack power buff (depending on how high of a level you've raised Guard Lance to), and as long as at least 1 ally is affected by Guard Lance, you will gain the buff as well.

Ranger - Trap Build
Traps are useless. They offer little damage and your points are better spend elsewhere. So what can we do? Make better traps, of course.

1. Vortex Trap - It's basically Zondeel. Draws enemies to the center and unlike Zondeel, cannot be triggered to stop pulling enemies in.
2. Circle Trap - You know those circle laser things that appear in fields? You can drop something kind of like that. Once triggered by a nearby enemy, it will continue to strike enemies with the laser rings for small damage, but also stun them every time a ring touches them.
3. Turret - Not a trap per se, but the user could construct turrets that could be used by themselves or other allies. It would take a moment to construct, but it would last as long as the ammo reserves lasted.
4. Luck Trap - Get an enemy to step on this trap and a glowing red field would be produced for a few moments. Kill anything in this trap to gain a rare drop rate and meseta bonus. It would be a 5 point skill, and at max it would give a 5% rare drop rate and a 50% Meseta boost.
5. Gravity Trap - The opposite of the Upper Trap. Knocks enemies down to the ground and pins them there for a moment.

[gigawuts]

Having to buy traps seems gimmicky, and I'd much rather see them made into something you can scavenge for free or even replenish slowly via a skill on a cooldown.

I don't think you should be able to spam 500 every mission, but just 10 of each type before having to return to the campship, while other classes or builds don't have to do anything like that at all, is a failed idea IMO. Even if that worked at launch (which it didn't really) the game has changed since then.

[Gardios]

Guard Stance
Step One: Rework monsters so they aren't piñatas.

[Rakurai]

Would be nice if they'd put PP Charge Revival on its own easily reachable part of FO skill tree considering how essential it is to any pure teching build.

Failing that, they could at least even out the skill-prereqs so Fire and Lightning require the same amount of points to access the entire tree as Ice does.

[Horo The Wise Wolf]

Guard Stance
Step One: Rework monsters so they aren't piñatas.

I love you

[gigawuts]

Would be nice if they'd put PP Charge Revival on its own easily reachable part of FO skill tree considering how essential it is to any pure teching build.

Failing that, they could at least even out the skill-prereqs so Fire and Lightning require the same amount of points to access the entire tree as Ice does.

They wouldn't even need to do that - simply reducing PP Revival's requirement in Flame S Charge to 3 sp and Flame S Charge's requirement in Flame Mastery 1 to 2 sp would actually fix quite a few of Force's problems.

It'd change nothing for a fire force, but it would ease the wasted SP for ice, lightning, or generalist builds. Then those elements could be handled with a bit more of a balanced approach. It wouldn't fix everything at once, but it's one of several easily solved issues.

[GoldenFalcon]

I remember Max Attack in PSU, where every party had a Pro and the other members would drop Freeze Trap X and Stun Trap X for them.

[Sanguine2009]

they should just make pp revival an innate part of techs, would fix alot of both forces and techers issues by freeing up sp for force and making techer able to you know tech without being forced to use force or have elysion

[Maenara]

Ideas for a couple support and wand-gear oriented techer skills:
•Support Fusion A: Max level 1/Requires Wand Gear: While Wand Gear is maxed, casting Resta, Anti, Shifta, or Deband applies the effects of all four technics simultaneously.
•Support Fusion B: Max level 1/Requires Wand Gear: While Wand Gear is maxed, casting Zondeel, Zanverse, or Megiverse applies the effects of all three technics simultaneously.
•Automate Assist: Max level 10: When a previously existing Shifta or Deband buff expires, applies a chance to instantly cast the appropriate technic at no PP cost, depending on the skill level. Chance of activation at each respective level: 5%/10%/15%/20%/30%/40%/50%/60%/75%/90%. If the skill would apply while Wand Gear is maxed, the chance is always 100%.

[GoldenFalcon]

Ideas for a couple support and wand-gear oriented techer skills:
•Support Fusion A: Max level 1/Requires Wand Gear: While Wand Gear is maxed, casting Resta, Anti, Shifta, or Deband applies the effects of all four technics simultaneously.
•Support Fusion B: Max level 1/Requires Wand Gear: While Wand Gear is maxed, casting Zondeel, Zanverse, or Megiverse applies the effects of all three technics simultaneously.
•Automate Assist: Max level 10: When a previously existing Shifta or Deband buff expires, applies a chance to instantly cast the appropriate technic at no PP cost, depending on the skill level. Chance of activation at each respective level: 5%/10%/15%/20%/30%/40%/50%/60%/75%/90%. If the skill would apply while Wand Gear is maxed, the chance is always 100%.

pls no

[Triple_S]

Traps should either have no cooldown and a higher capacity, or have infinite capacity and their current cooldown. It should also be far less SP-intensive to even gain access to all of them, and also require less SP to get them to max power. Speaking of power, they should all hit much harder at max potential. Finally, stun grenades need to have better physics because they act like they're on the freaking moon. Get some urgency to trap setup and grenade throws!

As for new traps, I like the ideas in the OP (except for the Luck Trap, that one is kinda silly). If Ranger isn't going to go full damage + Weak Bullet, they're going to need a lot of effective support to make up for it. Only problem is that the traps are too slow to set up. Really, even the upper and poison traps could be better as grenades. Make the trap setup be about making circle lasers and turrets! Not sure if setting up the manned turret would be balanced (though I would love that), but maybe a purified version of those autonomous turrets that you see in missions every now and then.

...Or we could just move traps, grenades, and constructs to a Gadgeteer class.

[Maenara]

pls no

Because total support techer builds are viable as they are.

[GoldenFalcon]

Because total support techer builds are viable as they are.

You are correct.

^ no sarcasm

[Kilich]

Its not as much improve, as what I like, but still:

Global
Add to weapon gears a, basically, mag ability list.
Change some skills, like stat up and highly situational abilities like Massive Hunter, Chase Bind, Photon Flare, etc, into weapon gear ability to clear up the skill trees somewhat.
Maybe add flinch resist, PP usage decrease for PA in the first slot and damage increase for the third, a skill that gives an increase in x if you JA different attacks\PAs into each other, in other words, utility.

Fury up 3
Slowly lose hp to constantly fill the gears, not enough to keep them full if you do nothing, but enough to last from one spawn to another.

Guard
Basically, a combo breaker. A non damaging AoE that gives you high resists and knockback enemies.
Make block, while in Guard, protect those near you as well.

Ra

Replace the traps with the ones we find in the map. Ring damage trap, heal canister, a turret that applies status debuffs, a turret with short mass flinch, maybe even calling a gunship for fire support.

[GoldenFalcon]

...Or we could just move traps, grenades, and constructs to a Gadgeteer class.

The return of Pro


Imagine
If there was a new class
Which wasn't selectable, but just always in effect. No matter what mainclass and subclass were chosen. The General Skills tree. Affecting your character forever
Like the character's real level.
(This was in Final Fantasy 14 before Realm Reborn)
It would get the same EXP as subclass (10%) and max at 50 now (the subclass level) but it would only get 1 General SP every 5 levels.

yeah right like this would happen

[Maenara]

You are correct.

^ no sarcasm

Personally, I've never seen anyone who hangs around as a Techer and supports. The closest I've had is one of my friends who always casts extended Shifta and Deband before a stage when we're running XQs.

I'm sure the support-only build is just one step away from being a god-tier build though, just like everything else in the game that isn't already. I'm sure making it a bit easier to maintain a couple of 20% buffs would be the step it needs to be OP.

[gigawuts]

The return of Pro


Imagine
If there was a new class
Which wasn't selectable, but just always in effect. No matter what mainclass and subclass were chosen. The General Skills tree. Affecting your character forever
Like the character's real level.
(This was in Final Fantasy 14 before Realm Reborn)
It would get the same EXP as subclass (10%) and max at 50 now (the subclass level) but it would only get 1 General SP every 5 levels.

yeah right like this would happen

Everyone should get a racial tree subclass option.

Initially the only options would be traps (Improved traps with a couple passive bonuses, with ranger still getting some bonuses.) or support techs (Tweaked to be better than basic support techs as they are, but reduced range etc. A techer could choose this and get the bonuses to their support techs at full range, etc.).

Something should also be added for Dumans to call their "own" down the line, too. Anyone could still use the Duman racial tree of course.

This tree would never and could never have damage bonuses. It'd just be really simple stuff, and 1 sp every 5 levels like you said to reduce bloat. edit: Maybe it shouldn't even have SP, just make it a passive thing that improves as it levels.

[Triple_S]

One of the biggest problems with Shifta and Deband right now (mostly Shifta because Deband Cut helps a fair bit) is that their buffs scale off of base stats and last for a pitiful amount of time without spending a lot of SP. Plus everything in the game dies so fast, an attack boost doesn't matter, so Shifta is already hard to justify taking time to cast unless it's before certain bosses.

However, as much as I'd like them to scale off of total stats (i.e. including equipment), that'd be massively overpowered unless the Techer was basically unable to do anything else effectively... and even then, it'd be ridiculous and yet still mostly unnecessary.


EDIT: I really don't like the idea of racial trees that are geared toward certain classes, especially when we only have two character slots without paying money. If we're gonna have race skills, they need to be useful regardless of your class and not be ridiculously overpowered. Though I gotta say, I would like SUVs to come back...

[GoldenFalcon]

However, as much as I'd like them to scale off of total stats (i.e. including equipment), that'd be massively overpowered unless the Techer was basically unable to do anything else effectively... and even then, it'd be ridiculous and yet still mostly unnecessary.

Like Acro from PSU? lol

[Triple_S]

Like Acro from PSU? lol

Sort of, but support techs in PSU were like in PSO: they made a HUGE difference in your ability to do anything. Absolutely fucking massive gains from support techs that were noticeable because things did take more than like two or three hits to kill.

[Chdata]

If it doesn't actually boost my kill time for enemies, it's not really worth it. It usually takes a lot dmg bonus at once to really make a difference.

e.g., I looked at how much dmg against non-weak element enemies I'd be doing with Il Megid if I have +300 on my units, and that alone is 2,500. That much is only a notable jump for maybe one hitting enemies weak to dark, but otherwise doesn't change Il Megid vs anything else much. It leaves enemies at less health for other people I guess, but it's whatever if I can't just one hit everything.

e.g., I only bother to drink if I want the rare premium boost or if I just know the quest will pay it back (which is probably always anyway) and really don't bother with shifta unless it's like, the very start of the quest.

[strikerhunter]

Remove entire RA trap line and replace it with 3 skills:

Similar to WB in capacity 1sp:1 trap, 3sp:2 traps, 7sp:3 traps, 10sp:4 traps.
No buying traps, these are default traps that stuns, knockbacks on large targets, and add a +25% r-atk damage on the damage spot (no stack with wb and does not replace wb). (+5% trap damage and +2.5% bonus r-atk damage on target per SP) (trap's damage are scaled to player's r-atk)

-Status traps (3 sp into trap master): (separate traps)
(5sp?) You can now lay down traps that do status effect depending on the element status the damaged target is weak too. If it's a boss, it'll auto stagger the boss. (20% chance per 1sp) (status effect damage are scaled to the player's level with the exception of poison).

-Advance traps(5sp in to trap master): (10sp)
Traps (default or status) can now be thrown and be treated like grenades when doing so, damage/status from traps are increase.
Status traps gains a +10% damage from status effects done by status traps per SP. (+100% status effect damage at max)
Normal traps gains a +5% initial damage per SP. (+50% trap initial damage at max)

Remove entire Launcher tree line except for Jellen shot.
Put Jellen shot at where-ever the launcher tree line starts.


Also.................remove sub class system and add a racial skill tree.

[Omega-z]

@Triple_S - Shifta and Deband "used" to do all the increases (ie. Gear, Skills...etc.) before they added the unit Sets which broke them and caused a glitch where every time you switched blocks it messed up the boost that Shifta and Deband gave, this happen at the end of August of 2012. So, good old Sega instead of fixing it they just nerf'd it to only have your base effect it.

[gigawuts]

Remove entire RA trap line and replace it with 3 skills:

Similar to WB in capacity 1sp:1 trap, 3sp:2 traps, 7sp:3 traps, 10sp:4 traps.
No buying traps, these are default traps that stuns, knockbacks on large targets, and add a +25% r-atk damage on the damage spot (no stack with wb and does not replace wb). (+5% trap damage and +2.5% bonus r-atk damage on target per SP) (trap's damage are scaled to player's r-atk)

-Status traps (3 sp into trap master): (separate traps)
(5sp?) You can now lay down traps that do status effect depending on the element status the damaged target is weak too. If it's a boss, it'll auto stagger the boss. (20% chance per 1sp) (status effect damage are scaled to the player's level with the exception of poison).

-Advance traps(5sp in to trap master): (10sp)
Traps (default or status) can now be thrown and be treated like grenades when doing so, damage/status from traps are increase.
Status traps gains a +10% damage from status effects done by status traps per SP. (+100% status effect damage at max)
Normal traps gains a +5% initial damage per SP. (+50% trap initial damage at max)

Remove entire Launcher tree line except for Jellen shot.
Put Jellen shot at where-ever the launcher tree line starts.


Also.................remove sub class system and add a racial skill tree.

I've been thinking for a while about how there is clearly a rifle tree, but no actual launcher-oriented skills (or rather, there weren't at launch unless you count the loadable shots [which we don't]). When approached that way, it seems blatant that the trap tree is meant to be the launcher tree - you're meant to use both combined.

So to expand on that I'd like to see traps turned into something you load into launchers, allowing you to plant them from a distance by firing them on an arc like any old video game grenade launcher would do. You'd get sticky mines, timed mines, and a selection of unique SE mines (jellen, slow, and something else). They could turn these "traps" into PAs using a method as old as RPGs - make them ordinary PAs with ridiculously high PP costs, and add skills that reduce the PP costs to something you can fire once or even twice with enough PP. I'm thinking 900 base PP cost, -90% multiplier with a 1 SP skill.

Cosmos Breaker functions quite a bit like what I have in mind - it won't detonate until it collides with something, it's very slow, it lifts, and it hits hard. Imagine 3 more kinds of Cosmos Breaker that slow enemies instead of lift them, etc. Of course, people circumvent Cosmos Breaker's drawbacks by just shooting their own feet, but you get my point.

[strikerhunter]

I've been thinking for a while about how there is clearly a rifle tree, but no actual launcher-oriented skills (or rather, there weren't at launch unless you count the loadable shots [which we don't]). When approached that way, it seems blatant that the trap tree is meant to be the launcher tree - you're meant to use both combined.

So to expand on that I'd like to see traps turned into something you load into launchers, allowing you to plant them from a distance by firing them on an arc like any old video game grenade launcher would do. You'd get sticky mines, timed mines, and a selection of unique SE mines (jellen, slow, and something else). They could turn these "traps" into PAs using a method as old as RPGs - make them ordinary PAs with ridiculously high PP costs, and add skills that reduce the PP costs to something you can fire once or even twice with enough PP. I'm thinking 900 base PP cost, -90% multiplier with a 1 SP skill.

Cosmos Breaker functions quite a bit like what I have in mind - it won't detonate until it collides with something, it's very slow, it lifts, and it hits hard. Imagine 3 more kinds of Cosmos Breaker that slow enemies instead of lift them, etc. Of course, people circumvent Cosmos Breaker's drawbacks by just shooting their own feet, but you get my point.

Yea this is why I find launcher RA being leftout and not used as much as Rifle RA, not because of rifle's access to wb but because the lack of an actual dedicated skill tree line for Launchers.

[GoldenFalcon]

Cosmos Breaker

it lifts

you get my point.

quote for truth

[Hobu]

Katana Gear:

All attacks gradually fill up the gear gauge. Max gear guarantees the Shunka Shunran damage we see now. Without it, Bravers deal 70-80% of their damage without the Katana Gear. Idling depletes the gauge until it reaches 1 bar.

Parrying an attack triggers the Katana Gear effect we all know - increased damage, but causes the Katana gauge to deplete faster. Upgrading the Katana Gear reduces the rate the gauge depletes, and adds .01 damage per level. Upgradable to 5 levels.

Counter Edge - [Katana Gear lv3 Prerequisite] Countering at max gauge sends 3 large vertical slashes that knocks enemies upwards, equivalent to 500% of the Bravers total s-atk.

[Removal of Average and Weak Stance]

Katana Stance - Braver holds the katana in the default Iaido style. Holding left click turns the normal stance to to both hands raised. The first normal attack strike is increased by 10% while in that pose.

[Katana S. Up]
[Katana Critical]
[Katana Charge]

[Bullet Bow Stances]

Calm Stance - Fires straight piercing projectiles at the cost of 50% moving speed.
Calm Stance Up 1 - R-atk bonus up to +140 during Calm Stance
Calm Stance Charge - Charging left click while in Calm Stance increases projectile speed and damage by 6%

Bullet Bow PA's are all usable in this stance. Final Nemesis and Penetrating Arrow damage is increased by 20% during Calm Stance.

Frenzied Stance - Fires 4 arrows in erratic spread and speed. Damage is reduced by 40%
Frenzied Stance Up - Increases attack speed and increases damage by 10% at max 5 levels.
Frenzied Stance Charge - Charging the normal attack button fires 10 arrows in a uniform horizontal spread. Increased damage by 10% at max 10 levels.

Million Storm and Master Shot / Torrential Arrow damage is increased by 5 percent while in this stance.

[GoldenFalcon]

Katana Gear:
All attacks gradually fill up the gear gauge. Without it, Bravers deal 70-80% of their damage without the Katana Gear.

Katana Stance - The first normal attack strike is increased by 10% while in that pose.

Calm Stance - Fires straight piercing projectiles at the cost of 50% moving speed.

Frenzied Stance - Fires 4 arrows in erratic spread and speed. Damage is reduced by 40%


Braver itself really doesn't need a nerf

katena stance bullocks

every attack is now uncharged penetrate arrow

basically rapid shoot

Conclusion: no. This makes it a useless subclass basically.

[Hobu]

People use braver as a subclass? As a HU/BR maybe. People sub braver to use Katanas anyway, so why not go all the way?

[strikerhunter]

IMO braver tree is fine as is but maybe something can be done to make bullet bows more unique. (katana line is far to fine for now)

[UnLucky]

I think what they should do is place broken skills underneath the least used ones, as determined by usage statistics.

So lv5 Tactics Trap -> Trap Escape which gives 30s of invulnerability after placing a trap
Lv5 Poison Trap Custom -> Pro Trapper which gives 2x damage after placing a trap, which works for PAs
Lv3 PP Save Bullet -> Bullet Advance which gives 2x damage with special bullets loaded

For example, they could give Hunters unconditional 2x damage under Pretty Good.

Or right under PP Up 2 for Techer, so every build needs to go there unless they want to miss out on 2x damage.

And something not completely worthless at the bottom of Force's Ice tree, so you're spending almost 30 SP on skills you will never use just to gain access to a larger bonus than the ones available in the trees of the elements you actually want.

[Vetur]

I agree with the posts about force/techer's requirements for essential skills like PP charge and PP restoration, like that they should be their own path since not everyone wants to be a fire/light build, but everyone wants the skills essential to ones' PP. DX

[Skyly HUmar]

Reducing the sp required for weaker clones of the same skill would be helpful. JA boost is 10 sp for 10%, JA combo is 10 sp for 20%.

[pkemr4]

gib RA rifle and launcher gear

[UnLucky]

Reducing the sp required for weaker clones of the same skill would be helpful. JA boost is 10 sp for 10%, JA combo is 10 sp for 20%.
But JA Bonus works even without Fury Stance!

This is a huge distinction that greatly affects a majority of the playerbase.

[GoldenFalcon]

But JA Bonus works even without Fury Stance!

This is a huge distinction that greatly affects a majority of the playerbase.

You're right, I got both JA Bonuses to 10, and left Fury Stance at 5