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PhantasySlayer
Apr 30, 2014, 03:12 PM
Hello all!

I'm brand new here, looking forward to talking to everyone!

I just started PSO2, and know for sure I wish to main a force especially since I've already picked a Newman Female. My question is, what class should I subclass?

My thoughts so far:
Techer
Fighter
Braver

What are some advantages and disadvantages of each?

Thanks!

Chdata
Apr 30, 2014, 03:16 PM
FoTe is best for using Il Megid and other dark techs. At a high level with really expensive gear, you can one hit most small mobs and it's probably your best choice at that point.

TeFo is best for using Elysion and sazan spam, unless you can equip it as FoTe for elemental conversion (if you're a deuman you will be able to when you're maxed).

FoBr is best for elemental weakness, unless it's dark techs, then FoTe is better.

FoFi is best for non-elemental weakness.

All of this is dps based.

PhantasySlayer
Apr 30, 2014, 03:16 PM
Forgot to mention, looking for a high dps build rather than support.

PhantasySlayer
Apr 30, 2014, 03:26 PM
Since you mentioned the strong dark attacks, would a Te/Fi work out well?
How useful are dark techs late game?
And which of them would be the best boss killers?

Skyly
Apr 30, 2014, 03:53 PM
Fo should a support only class. I hardly see people using resta. Seems like it's only on themselves

Chdata
Apr 30, 2014, 04:01 PM
Since you mentioned the strong dark attacks, would a Te/Fi work out well?
How useful are dark techs late game?
And which of them would be the best boss killers?

Namegid would be the best dark tech for bossing, but if there's other forces or you can spam Il Barta, that's a good choice too. For stuff that's weak to fire you can use na foie if you have the fire tree. Sazan spam can be good for stuff weak to wind too.

TeFi wouldn't work well with namegid or fire because you won't have charge PP revival, which allows you to recharge PP while charging a spell. If you're charging Il Barta instead of casting it with Elysion, it's also worse off without charge PP revival. If you're using Elysion to fast cast it, it doesn't really matter because you wouldn't have been to benefit from charge PP revival anyway. Of course if you have Elysion as a TeFo/FoTe, you could also use PP Convert to spam uncharged namegids or Il Foie.

LonelyGaruga
Apr 30, 2014, 04:07 PM
TeFo is best for using Elysion and sazan spam, unless you can equip it as FoTe for elemental conversion (if you're a deuman you will be able to when you're maxed).

Te/Fo is dead, Fo/Fi can naturally equip Elysion with the minimum S-ATK Ups on the tree, and Fo/Br can sacrifice skill points for S-ATK Up 1 to equip it. Fo/Te can do the same with a full wind tree, though it's more SP extensive. Best way to go for Fo/Br and Fo/Te would be to put a bit of S-ATK on the mag anyway. Te/Fo's damage loss in comparison is just too big.

Everything else is good though.

Triple_S
Apr 30, 2014, 04:13 PM
Fo should a support only class.

No, that was stupid in PSO and it would be far worse here.

PhantasySlayer
Apr 30, 2014, 08:06 PM
Which elements should I master? Dark and?

Sizustar
Apr 30, 2014, 10:35 PM
Which elements should I master? Dark and?

Do you plan to pay real money for multiple skill tree?

9898
Apr 30, 2014, 10:44 PM
Which elements should I master? Dark and?

if you want the master of darkness im right here

infiniteeverlasting
Apr 30, 2014, 10:47 PM
Just break it to him guys, force is by far the most painful, masochistic main class in pso2. Sega will make you rip your hair out when you're trying get a rainbow pallete of rods/wands when that elision hates your guts and just never drops. Well this only applies to freemium users actually, on the other hand... Premium user? You'll be fine.

UnLucky
Apr 30, 2014, 11:36 PM
Since you mentioned the strong dark attacks, would a Te/Fi work out well?
How useful are dark techs late game?
And which of them would be the best boss killers?
Te/Fi or Te/Br don't work because Force gives more general tech damage.

Tech Charge, Tech JA, Talis Tech, Element Convert, and T-Atk High Up combine to a lot more than even Wise Stance+Chase Advance or Weak Stance+Rapid Shoot Mastery.

Even as Te/Fo it beats out Brave+Chase or Weak Stance.

That, and PP Charge Revival is very helpful, even for an Elysion build. Although in that case Te/Fo loses out on damage compared to Te/Fi or Te/Br. But even without Elysion, uncharged techs as Fo/Te are almost as good but with the option of having way stronger charged techs as well.


ANYway, what I mean to say is, always main Force if you can help it. Even if you don't have a full weapon palette of various 50% elements, you still get a good bonus. 5% damage for mismatched elements with just 20% on your weapon is still well worth 5SP.

Though Fo/Te isn't any stronger than Fo/Fi if the enemy is not weak to wind/light/dark. As in, Brave Stance is equal to two Mastery skills, but Chase Advance or Wise Stance are more, though you'll obviously do less if you're in the wrong stance for your position. And that's ignoring Territory Burst and the bonus PP regen, so Fo/Te can still be fairly general purpose.


If you just want to level up one class and use one build, Ice/Wind or Fire/Dark Fo/Te should be well rounded enough to cover any situation. And there's always the option of using the same Force tree as Fo/Fi everywhere, or Fo/Br whenever appropriate.

MimiChan
May 1, 2014, 12:25 AM
Seeing that I have been Fo main for as long as I can remember, I can give you a few tidbits.

Seeing you just started, I suggest you stick with Fo/Te as Te compliments Fo completely (EWH, PP restore, TB, PPC, etc.) Since I am assuming you don't have elite gears yet, I doubt any of the percentage bonus on the stances will help you as much.

Then experiment with the Tech, if you find you enjoy using Wind/Light/Dark then you know you want to stick with Te as a sub. If Fire is your choice for sheer damage, then max S Flame Charge and get Fi for dat brave stance.

Also remember that playing FO isn't all about bringing damage to the table as Br and Gu can, it's all about bringing the best out of other people in the party/MPA.

A well placed Zanverse during a Falz arm run can rake you tons of free damage, probably 10x more than what you will usually make.

A zondeeled group of mobs during an AQ PSE burst would make your party kill enemies faster.

Zondeel + Gibarta during Mine Defense can occasionally stops a huge mobs from doing damage on the towers.

Il Gratz can lock down Vibrace long enough for the MPA to finish it quickly.

I see Fo more of a utility support class than a DPS class so if you prefer seeing big damage, you should had went Br or Gu.

UMVC3_Wolverine
May 1, 2014, 12:42 AM
Seeing that I have been Fo main for as long as I can remember, I can give you a few tidbits.

Seeing you just started, I suggest you stick with Fo/Te as Te compliments Fo completely (EWH, PP restore, TB, PPC, etc.) Since I am assuming you don't have elite gears yet, I doubt any of the percentage bonus on the stances will help you as much.

Then experiment with the Tech, if you find you enjoy using Wind/Light/Dark then you know you want to stick with Te as a sub. If Fire is your choice for sheer damage, then max S Flame Charge and get Fi for dat brave stance.

Also remember that playing FO isn't all about bringing damage to the table as Br and Gu can, it's all about bringing the best out of other people in the party/MPA.

A well placed Zanverse during a Falz arm run can rake you tons of free damage, probably 10x more than what you will usually make.

A zondeeled group of mobs during an AQ PSE burst would make your party kill enemies faster.

Zondeel + Gibarta during Mine Defense can occasionally stops a huge mobs from doing damage on the towers.

Il Gratz can lock down Vibrace long enough for the MPA to finish it quickly.

I see Fo more of a utility support class than a DPS class so if you prefer seeing big damage, you should had went Br or Gu.

Fo can be a DPS class if you know what you're doing and have lvl 16 techs and good gear. It can also be both at the same time to. Utility and DPS.

Dat 25% damage boost Force got is awesome assuming you have a 50% rod for all your elements (meaning the ones you like to use).

MimiChan
May 1, 2014, 03:31 AM
I didn't say it can't be a DPS but I am basing my answer based on his experience.
You don't expect him to have 5 slot units with 100 Tatk each and 6 of 50% rod now do you?
I don't even think he even has access to 16 discs which where the huge jump in tech power comes.

I want to teach him how to properly utilize FO in his current state since he lacks the elite gear required to do a decent DPS build.

Rather have an ill equip FO doing Shifta/Zanverse/Zondeel/Megiverse than trying to spam skills that barely get past 3k in damage in an MPA.

Silver Crow
May 1, 2014, 04:04 AM
what do you guys think of this:http://ryuhiroshi.funpic.de/pso2/skillcalc.php?07uGbsIkbsIkbsIkbsIkbsIkbsIkbsIkjdt9 bIn00000000Ib000000lb000000lb0000084OI22StXgAINbnb ngXIbqnI200008kbdFdQfdFdSJ2gDIbGBI2Ib00009b000000j

I tried to be a efficient as possible with the points, it will be for a general build with hopefully six different ele weapons

Macman
May 1, 2014, 04:08 AM
Just break it to him guys, force is by far the most painful, masochistic main class in pso2.
Sorry that title still belongs solely to Hunter.

isCasted
May 1, 2014, 04:32 AM
what do you guys think of this:http://ryuhiroshi.funpic.de/pso2/skillcalc.php?07uGbsIkbsIkbsIkbsIkbsIkbsIkbsIkjdt9 bIn00000000Ib000000lb000000lb0000084OI22StXgAINbnb ngXIbqnI200008kbdFdQfdFdSJ2gDIbGBI2Ib00009b000000j

I tried to be a efficient as possible with the points, it will be for a general build with hopefully six different ele weapons

The most noticable (and odd, IMO) error here is that you ditch PP Convert to get wand skills. If you play a caster, you absolutely don't need those. PP Convert enables you ability to spam the strongest and most PP-consuming techs like Nafoie and Ilbarta.

GoldenFalcon
May 1, 2014, 04:34 AM
The most noticable (and odd, IMO) error here is that you ditch PP Convert to get wand skills. If you play a caster, you absolutely don't need those.

Yeah, I took a little adventure tidying up the trees

I dropped 1 point from ice mastery, photon flare, charge 1, charge 2, and ja to max Talis Bonus
and on the Techer tree, I lowered Wand Reactor to 1 point, lowered shifta/deband to 3 points, dropped panic/light mastery 2, and maxed Territory Save + got 3 points in PP Convert

or something

Silver Crow
May 1, 2014, 05:18 AM
The most noticable (and odd, IMO) error here is that you ditch PP Convert to get wand skills. If you play a caster, you absolutely don't need those. PP Convert enables you ability to spam the strongest and most PP-consuming techs like Nafoie and Ilbarta.

my play style is to use the wand to recover pp in quick bursts, like after grouping stuff just whack them once or twice and pp is full. I really dislike just standing back and casting techs >.< pp convert is useful though, ionno I'll have to compromise, going to think about a better play style

PhantasySlayer
May 1, 2014, 08:41 AM
Thanks for all of this advice. Definitely making things more clear to me.

So I should go either Ice & Wind or Fire & Dark? I have also read that full lightning builds can dish out great damage, any thoughts on that?

Also, what weapon(s) should I use?

PhantasySlayer
May 1, 2014, 08:47 AM
Oh one more thing, how much more damage does hitting a weakness inflict?

How much less does it do to an enemy that resists an element?

UnLucky
May 1, 2014, 09:14 AM
Lightning can be powerful, but it somewhat lacks a good quick AoE. Gizonde, Razonde, Nazonde, and Zondeel all have quirks that make them difficult to use. That, and going pure lightning means your only form of damage triggers Zondeel, stopping its incredibly useful suction effect.

Typically enemies weak to two elements take 20% more damage from either, but if they're only weak to one they'll take 30%. Most enemies have no resistance, but some take 10% less, while particular bosses like Vol Dragon or Elder Falz resist most elements by quite a lot (I want to say 50-70% resistance).

As for weapons, always use a Talis whenever possible for more damage thanks to the Talis Tech Bonus skill. Some techs are just way too difficult to use with a talis, though, like even so far as to completely remove your ability to aim while charging. In such cases, a Rod is a much more reasonable choice.

The fastest way to regen PP safely from a distance is with a Gunslash (gun mode). Either shoot while moving (locking on will allow you to backpedal), or jump into the air to shoot a bit faster. Though if you're already up close to a group of enemies, a melee weapon would regen more per attack. A Double Saber would be the best for that purpose, but you would need a multi-class one since Force can't equip those by default.

PhantasySlayer
May 1, 2014, 09:53 AM
How is this for a build?

http://ryuhiroshi.ry.funpic.de/pso2/skillcalc.php

PhantasySlayer
May 1, 2014, 09:54 AM
http://ryuhiroshi.funpic.de/pso2/skillcalc.php?07uDbsIkbsIkbsIkbsIkbnIkbnIkbsIkjdt9 bIn00000000Ib000000lb000000lb000008kbIk2XcKjbnbnIk 00000jkbIslsI2cF4XHXIb00000ib000000j

WildarmsRE5
May 1, 2014, 09:57 AM
you missed Talis Tech Bonus and Element Conversion.

If you're not going for Fo main, then. . . atleast get the Talis Tech Bonus.

PhantasySlayer
May 1, 2014, 11:07 AM
What exactly does Element Conversion do? I'm confused by the description.

Hobu
May 1, 2014, 11:18 AM
Hunter isn't the most masochistic class to play as. Just get a Weddle Aid with +100 S-atk. It costs like 15m, and it can be either fire or lightning element. Then a Dragon Slayer for Killing/Tanking Dragons. There you go, you're a Hunter. Wired Lances? Not with the super fast charging Fury-powered Sword Gear!

Now if you want your Rainbow palette of Elysions but is unlucky with drops, you better learn your laws of supply and demand and learn to make money. Suck Klotho's Flan Paneeda to make him gib you Monies, and learn to buy and sell. Cut down on buying Lobby Actions and costumes for your loli and start planning ahead.

Seriously, I would have renewed my Premium but the Economy in this game is too easy to swim on.

Sandmind
May 1, 2014, 11:23 AM
Element conversion, only active when force is the main class. It will check the element on your weapon and it's %, then add half of it as % damage if same element than the technique you're using at the moment. Or a quartet of the element if not matching your tech. At best, it mean 25% damage for 5 skill points, better than a single mastery. Even with a 20% wrong element, you're getting 5% damage, which is worth the points.

WildarmsRE5
May 1, 2014, 11:24 AM
depending on the element on your weapon, your techs get boosted by it.

example, you have a 50 element Fire Rod, using a Fire Tech with it will increase its damage.

Sizustar
May 1, 2014, 11:38 AM
depending on the element on your weapon, your techs get boosted by it.

example, you have a 50 element Fire Rod, using a Fire Tech with it will increase its damage.

You still get bonus from element that doesn't match your tech.

PhantasySlayer
May 1, 2014, 11:44 AM
Thanks I will add that to the build than. For SP, do you get an extra 10 for just one class or all classes?

Ezodagrom
May 1, 2014, 11:45 AM
Thanks I will add that to the build than. For SP, do you get an extra 10 for just one class or all classes?
Each class has its own client orders to get extra 10 SP.

PhantasySlayer
May 1, 2014, 12:09 PM
http://ryuhiroshi.funpic.de/pso2/skillcalc.php?07uDbsIkbsIkbsIkbsIkbnIkbnIkbsIkjdt9 bIn00000000Ib000000lb000000lb000008kbI22XbxjbnbnIk fbnI200008kbIslsI2cF4XHXIb00000ib000000j

How's that build?

Especially Techer, I'm not too sure about that, any tips on that side of things?

I plan to use Talis now as my main weapon.

Fire/Dark as main elements.

Sizustar
May 1, 2014, 01:02 PM
http://ryuhiroshi.funpic.de/pso2/skillcalc.php?07uDbsIkbsIkbsIkbsIkbnIkbnIkbsIkjdt9 bIn00000000Ib000000lb000000lb000008kbI22XbxjbnbnIk fbnI200008kbIslsI2cF4XHXIb00000ib000000j

How's that build?

Especially Techer, I'm not too sure about that, any tips on that side of things?

I plan to use Talis now as my main weapon.

Fire/Dark as main elements.

Ice dark might be better?

Sandmind
May 1, 2014, 01:13 PM
Your build is 65/65 instead of 70/70 level wise, so you got 5 more skill points to play with.

FO side, max both fire mastery and remove 5 SP from tech JA. Also move that point from just reversal to rare mastery, you only need it on eitheir main or sub (if you already learned it, it's not a deal breaker). Then again, for a non-premium, it could be easier and/or better to take advantage of element conversion with good 9*, so rare mastery wouldn't apply and you can put that SP into tech JA.

TE side, drop shifta advance completely, the bonus is barely noticeable. Pick lv1 of territory burst for bigger range on zondeel (gathering mob tool, work very well and safely with talis), megiverse, zanverse (good damage source in a party) and the other support tech. Max element weak hit to boost your damage on fire and dark weak mob. Finally, personnaly I would drop deband cut to pick 3lv of territory PP save.

(The joy of posting from a tablet, not only is the pso2 calc not easy to use, but it doesn't let me copy the entire URL for my example build........)

Concerning ice, now that it got ilbarta, it mob well and boss kill well. Which dark can also do. Fire can handle the time when you want to spend less PP thank to tech crafting.

PhantasySlayer
May 1, 2014, 01:52 PM
Thanks Sandmind...helps a lot!

I did unfortunately already pick Just Reversal on Fo, but took it out of Te. Here is my updated build:

http://ryuhiroshi.funpic.de/pso2/skillcalc.php?07uDbsIkbsIkbsIkbsIkbsIkbsIkbsIkjdt9 bIn00000000Ib000000lb000000lb000008kbIk2XcKjbnbnI2 fbnI2000084O6dqI2J24XHXIbie00009b000000j

And should I be going ice or fire?

PhantasySlayer
May 1, 2014, 02:25 PM
For Tech JA Advance, what exactly are just attacks? Simply charged up or is this perfect timing casts?

Sandmind
May 1, 2014, 02:38 PM
JA are those circle that appear around your character after an attack and a few other actions. If you start an atk, PA or charging a tech at the right time, then you gain a natural 30% damage boost on it. Tech JA advance simply boost that number for technics.

PhantasySlayer
May 1, 2014, 02:42 PM
Is it really worth the extra 5 points there? Can I save 15 points and put towards either lightning or ice tree?

Sandmind
May 1, 2014, 03:00 PM
It's worth it when doing a specialized elemental build. And the point in zonde PP save aren't wasted, since zondeel is a big part of FO's toolbox, same with ilzonde if you want to use it for traveling purpose.

I had been a generalist FOTE for a long time, so I can tell you that eventually your damage will suffer. This was before talis bonus and element conversion, so might work better these day, I don't know.

Alternatively, there isn't too much harm to move 1SP from tech JA to lv1 ice mastery if you got only 1 skill tree and really want to use ice at time with more damage. Ultimately, the choice is yours only, I'm simply giving out some advices.

PhantasySlayer
May 1, 2014, 03:00 PM
http://ryuhiroshi.funpic.de/pso2/skillcalc.php?07uDbsIkbsIkbsIkbsIkbsIkbsIkbsIkjdt9 bIn00000000Ib000000lb000000lb000008kbIk2XsXgAIAjgA fonI2000084O6dqI2J24XHXIbie00009b000000j

How about that for putting up 100 tech?

Or I guess Zondeel may be more worth it.

Rakurai
May 1, 2014, 03:15 PM
Better to go down the lightning branch for Bolt PP Save and JA Advance, since everything prior to T-ATK High Up is pretty much useless.

In any case, I tend to find myself gravitating towards FO/TE these days, because I find myself starved for PP without PP Restorate, Super Treatment, and/or PP Convert.

PhantasySlayer
May 1, 2014, 03:18 PM
Alright perfect, thanks again everyone. I feel like my build will be able to do some nice damage eventually =)