[Rant] 3 things I want to change in PSO2

[Silver Crow]

I have some time on my hands, so I thought I'd rant about
three things that really bother me about PSO2. I'm typing from a mobile so I apologize for any auto correct mistakes.

1st point: Sub classess, there is no 'viable' unique build!
[SPOILER-box]Everyone subs Hunter for +85% ~70% damage. There is nothing unique about Gu/Hu, it's just Gunner + 70% dmg. Where is the identity of Hu in that build?

Solution:Make every skill tree provide the same FLAT damage bonuses, but differ in unique skills. Like Force PP Revival, Techer PP Restorate, Ranger Weak Bullet, Gunner Attack Restorate... etc I want all builds to be viable, so people can customize things to their preference and not because it gives the most damage[/SPOILER-box]

2nd point: Bosses aren't challenging, yet punish you badly.
[SPOILER-box]The literal definition of fun is Challenging*Forgiving, pso2 decided to go with the opposite...

The bosses in pso2 really dull your senses. The attack animations are so repetitive, slow, easy to predict, yet sometimes they knock you down and beat mercilessly on you (like when entering Dark Falz after you miss the portal countdown, only to be raped on the floor by hands)

Solution: Make bosses do less damage per hit, but increase their animation's speed, reduce animation delays to almost nothing. And add invincibility frames for when you're knocked to the ground. This will make it so you're on your toes throughout the fight, but can afford a few mistakes.[/SPOILER-box]

Final point: Useless Defensive Skills/Abilities
[SPOILER-BOX]No one in their right mind picks guard stance over Fury Stance. No one affixes resists to their armor. And we get one shot since I guess the game assumes we will take some defense. It's just not an exciting or fun stat, and we don't see feedback from it. For example you just affixed PP boost on your Gloam + White tail set, yay you have 170pp. Now you can dash faster, spam more Kanran's etc... With defense, you may notice taking less damage, but when you're focused on the battle you only care about your damage...

Solution: simplify the defense stat, HP is the only form of defense anyone takes because it's simple. So they need to make defense just one stat for all things (strike, ranged, tech) and forget about elemental resistances. It should just be defense and hp. HP synergises with percentage HP things like Mate items, or J Reversal Cover, Deadline Slayer etc... And Defense synergises with HP making each point worth more (might make Deadline Slayer builds viable if defense itself becomes viable)
[/SPOILER-BOX]

What you guys think?

[gigawuts]

I've thought for a while that HU's ridiculous bonuses are intentional, to emulate the effects of ye master<blank> of olde. Subbing HU is like prefixing Master- to your class. MasterGunner, MasterRanger, MasterFighter, etc.

An effective, although very misguided, attempt to create an extra option for people who want them. Without a strong sub like that there would otherwise be no way to strengthen your mainclass at the expense of subclass options. What Sega doesn't seem to realize is that damage is everything, so subbing something different for weaker and conditional bonuses with another set of weapons with their PAs (that are also weak) can't compare with 2x damage.

[milranduil]

I definitely agree with your bosses point. I can't tell you how many times I die due to random stunlock from an attack with that shouldn't have even hit me in the first place due to overly large hitboxes that really shouldn't be (looking at you Ragne).

[EvilMag]

I definitely agree with your bosses point. I can't tell you how many times I die due to random stunlock from an attack with that shouldn't have even hit me in the first place due to overly large hitboxes that really shouldn't be (looking at you Ragne).

It's a lot worse when fighting them with an infection that just throws like 3 bombs at you and stun you. Fuck fighting Infected bal rados and ragne for that reason.

[gigawuts]

What's even worse is when that itty bitty bit of flinch throws off JA timing. God, that gets annoying.

[Lumpen Thingy]

its a PS game after people get good gear and to lvl cap no boss was ever challenging in any of the games period

[Walkure]

It's a lot worse when fighting them with an infection that just throws like 3 bombs at you and stun you. Fuck fighting Infected bal rados and ragne for that reason.
I got styled on by an infected Agrani in one solo SHAQ immediately into the fight because of those bombs.

He jumped, infection bombs hit me as I was switching stances, delaying me enough to get hit by a bolt, and the hitstun of that bolt + a final bomb let me get hit by his back leg sweep, which killed me even after a mag heal or two.


I've thought for a while that HU's ridiculous bonuses are intentional, to emulate the effects of ye master<blank> of olde. Subbing HU is like prefixing Master- to your class. MasterGunner, MasterRanger, MasterFighter, etc.
But then how would you MasterHunter, MasterForce, or MasterTecher (okay meleetecher works for this analogy)?

[Symphie]

Won't lie, I'm a bit nervous about sharing my opinion on this particular point but I'll give it a try. (sorry if my reply come off as rude or anything, its not my intent in any way/shape/form);


Final point: Useless Defensive Skills/Abilities
[SPOILER-BOX]No one in their right mind picks guard stance over Fury Stance. No one affixes resists to their armor. And we get one shot since I guess the game assumes we will take some defense. It's just not an exciting or fun stat, and we don't see feedback from it. For example you just affixed PP boost on your Gloam + White tail set, yay you have 170pp. Now you can dash faster, spam more Kanran's etc... With defense, you may notice taking less damage, but when you're focused on the battle you only care about your damage...

Solution: simplify the defense stat, HP is the only form of defense anyone takes because it's simple. So they need to make defense just one stat for all things (strike, ranged, tech) and forget about elemental resistances. It should just be defense and hp. HP synergises with percentage HP things like Mate items, or J Reversal Cover, Deadline Slayer etc... And Defense synergises with HP making each point worth more (might make Deadline Slayer builds viable if defense itself becomes viable)
[/SPOILER-BOX]

What you guys think?

I don't think there is a need for "you're not right in your mind if you pick defense tree" thing. Its a sort of play style, really. Just as people enjoy watching them-self do bigger numbers, there are those who enjoy watching taking smaller numbers of damage. But naturally, people more often than not have an ego that's all about the bigger, harder and faster. Its a pick of either lots of damage, or being resilient. And people will always prefer damage, always, and is the same reason in games with the "holy trinity" that tanks are in low supply. Being a meat-shield ain't considered fun to a vast majority. Only time people would branch into Defense if they have the option, is if it became glaringly OP or a possible requirement for progress. Even if Fury were slammed down to do half the power it does now, I fully doubt people would opt for Defense, regardless, for reasons mentioned.

In a game I was the CM for a few years that is closed down now, it was the same case. You could go so defensively that you could AFK almost anywhere in the game and still kill mobs in 1-2 swings, yet people opted for overkilling mobs for 10 times their HP just because it let them kill bosses in 1-2 shots instead of fighting it for maybe a minute.

[SPOILER-BOX](As far as its usefulness is, I'm not going to bother talking about that since from lurking these forums for longer than my reg date, it always turn into homo-erotic phallus measuring contests and name calling, reason I was hesitating to reply in the first place. But its far from useless, really, and I personally enjoy fighting the bosses, hear their BGM and not almost get instagibbed from the slightest sneeze they make.)[/SPOILER-BOX]

[gigawuts]

But then how would you MasterHunter, MasterForce, or MasterTecher (okay meleetecher works for this analogy)?

I did say misguided.

[SakuRei]

Final point: Useless Defensive Skills/Abilities
[SPOILER-BOX]No one in their right mind picks guard stance over Fury Stance. No one affixes resists to their armor. And we get one shot since I guess the game assumes we will take some defense. It's just not an exciting or fun stat, and we don't see feedback from it. For example you just affixed PP boost on your Gloam + White tail set, yay you have 170pp. Now you can dash faster, spam more Kanran's etc... With defense, you may notice taking less damage, but when you're focused on the battle you only care about your damage...

Solution: simplify the defense stat, HP is the only form of defense anyone takes because it's simple. So they need to make defense just one stat for all things (strike, ranged, tech) and forget about elemental resistances. It should just be defense and hp. HP synergises with percentage HP things like Mate items, or J Reversal Cover, Deadline Slayer etc... And Defense synergises with HP making each point worth more (might make Deadline Slayer builds viable if defense itself becomes viable)
[/SPOILER-BOX]

Man, I really want to see a "Panzer Armor"/ a REAL Tank character for once... Like "Screw the damage, I'm a vanguard, a pain lover. I'M A TANKING MASOSCHIST!" kind of character with Guard Stance path, Pure S,R,T-DEF increase Stats, Either Vol or Dragon EX Souls, etc. EVERYTHING that increases HP and DEF and Elemental Resists. (Especially Male CASTs with beefed and bulky armor kind of look) Buuuuuut... Too bad Just Guard ruins the whole "Panzer Armor" thing or so...

[Hexxy]

What you guys think?

1) Remove all direct damage boosts (all current stances, sroll, wb...etc).

2) Replace with unique skills. Examples:

Hunter:
Fury Stance + Fury Combo = Combo Stance (Passive. Screw all these active skills)
- Repeated PA's get no damage boost and cost 10% more pp per repeat.
- Combo'ing different PA's/Techs reduces next PA PP cost by 15% up to 60%
- Combo'ing different PA's boosts next PA damage by 15% for every successful non-repeated PA, up to 30%. For every 3rd PA, your equipped weapon causes an aoe effect (sword = stun, partisan = kd, WL = confuse... different ones for all other melee weapons).
- The PP reduction affects Tech combo's. Every 3rd tech causes a 75% chance debuff in a significant aoe depending on element (fire = burn, ice = freeze, wind = zondeel effect, dark = poison...blah blah blah)

Guard Stance + Ironwill = Ironwall Stance
- Flat 50% damage reduction from all sources.
- Makes warcry spammable.
- Reduces your damage by 30%.
- Just Guard becomes Final Guard. Final Guard forces any attack that nornally pierces to no longer do so. (Block varda's chest laser like a boss, while people behind you safely attack).

Ranger:
WB = Range Mastery (5 point passive)
- All PA's/Techs have 10-50% more reach. Includes activation range (grabs) and aoe radius.
- Allows all abilities to multi-box. (Hatou effect on everything)
- For every 2 targets struck (multi hitbox counts), recover 5 pp. (10pp for 4 targets, 15 for 6, and so on).

Force:
Tech Combo Mastery
- Using different elements on status'd enemies causes bonus damage and extra effects:
Using lightning on a frozen enemy causes Chain Lightning. This damage chains to nearby enemies until no more in range.
Using fire on a poisoned enemy causes Meltdown. Target explodes after x seconds.
Using wind on a confused enemy causes Braindead. All target animations reduced by 30%.
And so on and so forth for many other combos.
- Grants ability to cause ALL statuses to ALL bosses, though they will last significantly less time so you have to be quick. Bosses of an element will be immune to their own element debuff though.

Braver:
Avg/Weak Stance = True Counter Stance
- Removes ALL invincible frames from all dodge skills. Does not remove actual dodge skill though.
- All weapon types gain ability to use True Counter. True Counter stance is based on -parrying- attacks with attacks. No defense keys are used, only attack timing.
- Because of godframe removal, True Counter works on ALL attacks, no exceptions.
- When successfully parrying an attack (attacking a fraction of a second before an attack would normally hit), the damage you would normally receive is reflected back to the enemy multiplied by some significant amount (to make it worthwhile).
- If your equipped weapon has an active gear, and it is at least 90% full, performing a True Counter changes it into Ultimate Counter.
- Ultimate Counter sends out a shockwave that is about 1.5x kanran radius that reduces all enemy animations by 50% and increases the user's attack/move speed by 50%. This lasts until gear depletes, but gear also depletes 50% faster than normal and -cannot- be replenished with attacks.


Follow trend for the other classes and there you go!

[Rakurai]

The subclass issue could be addressed to a degree by simply making more of the skills for each class apply to multiple types of damage.

IE, GU and RA could be viable subs for FO and TE if ZRA and Standing Snipe affected techs.

[pkemr4]

they should make a skill in hu tree thats halfs you damage received but halfs the damage you do but give you anti-flinch as well (similar to lord of armor skill from imagine online)

[gigawuts]

The subclass issue could be addressed to a degree by simply making more of the skills for each class apply to multiple types of damage.

IE, GU and RA could be viable subs for FO and TE if ZRA and Standing Snipe affected techs.

This would go a great way to fixing things, yes.

Zero Range Advance should affect all damagetypes, and Weak Hit Advance should give all damagetypes bonus damage to all hitboxes weak to ratk. That would suddenly open up heads as weak points for striking and techs.

Weak Bullet should only double damage too, maybe even just give 50% extra.

There are a lot of ways to go about balancing class bonuses for subclassing, this is just one of many.

[Nitro Vordex]

*snip*
The real issue with tanks in the game is more the fact that the current meta and even game mechanics don't really support any kind of tanky play, even with groups. Sure, you could take all the damage and keep your party safe. Or your party could just facemelt everything before it even finishes spawning. Sadly, the latter is what's happening right now. I'd even go so far as to say that the game wasn't really built with a tank aspect in mind, just more of a way to increase survivability in case of mistakes; hence the forced HP bonuses along the way for skills. (Which is terrible, by the way.)

I wonder if a way to change things would be to have all of these skills in separate columns, where you get like Attack and Defense stat lists, with different points into each.

[UnLucky]

1. I don't mind stronger subs. That's not the real issue. Ranger should be a better sub for Ranged damage than Force. Hunter being the universal strongest sub isn't even inherently flawed. But the fact that it completely eclipses everything else by a wide margin is already a big problem. Even still, if a Hunter sub gave 2x damage while anything else gives 1.5x that's totally fine. That by itself is completely OK. However, there's no drawback to the 2x damage Hunter provides. None. Whereas the 1.5x isn't even guaranteed at any point! Subbing Fighter, Ranger, Gunner, Force, or Techer can give you as low as nothing whatsoever even with an optimized skill tree while playing absolutely flawlessly.

Simply having Fury Stance active, period, without even JA, gives a larger bonus than Brave Stance in the correct position. It's a comparable damage bonus to what WHA provides Rangers when they target a specific spot the enemy may not even have.

2. Fairly certain the bosses are like that to sell Scape Dolls. Soloing is an arduous chore where a single mistake can mean certain death, with the only remedy being a self revive since retrying is disabled. It really falls apart in party play, and I'm honestly shocked there aren't more areas with restricted campship access or otherwise limited free revival.

Certainly the bosses of prior games weren't too challenging either, since a knockdown gave invulnerability and you could chug instant activation healing items. But 5 AoE revives per player makes it too easy when everyone has easy access to complete invincibility on command.

3. Defensive options either need to be consolidated or increased. Splitting everything into three sounds like a cool way to diversify the races/classes, but it's inherently flawed because everyone needs all defense types but only one attack type. Even an eight slot unit couldn't hold all of the DEF and RES affixes on it if we're including elements on there too. Just putting one on there is a lost cause since it means you hamper your only source of outgoing damage in order to affect only one of many possible sources of incoming damage.

All they really needed was to give Force and Techer higher elemental resistances all around. Including typed physical damage, since that would balance out with their lower physical defense, the only DEF stat. They could do the same for affixes. Physical (Striking+Ranged) and Elemental resistance. Individual elements would have to give a lot more total reduction than an all encompassing affix, yet neither should be any harder than the other to actually transfer.

I'm thinking affixing Elemental Res+Dark Res on a unit set with innate dark resistance should give you like 20% reduction to dark typed attacks. Although now everything has to have increasingly higher elemental resist to replace T-Def. Eh, maybe just combine S/R but keep T separate like Hunter so likes to do anyway.

[Renvalt]

For the bosses issue, I was talking to a few people about how Fang Banther/Dark Ragne should become the new Free Field bosses of Forest and Desert, respectively.

My reasoning for this is:

1)When encountered in their native lairs (exception of Ragne to Lilipa, but that can change by simply making the boss area into a mini-sandcanyon of sorts), these bosses have behaviors that take advantage of whatever terrain is present in their lair (Fang Banther climbs the trees and leaps among them to find a place to get the jump on you, Ragne scales the walls half-pipe style and then jumps to you/near you from wherever she is on the wall).

Now another supportive argument for this is that the EQs for F. Banther/Dark Ragne hardly ever show up these days anymore (if they do at all). The soonest you'll meet either of them outside of those is Nab TA2, and that requires Free Ruins to be playable. IMO, by the time you're THAT far, you'll know how to deal with them in some degree.

2)These foul beasties have gotten softer since their initial days as terrifying bosses (Ragne in CBT/F. Banther after the release of S. Banther), and it also helps that by removing the EQ-specific time limit to their fights (both in how long you have to kill them and how long you have an opportunity to TRY and kill them), they no longer are as worthless as the community makes them to be (not to mention they're both relevant due to their presence in the Class SP COs, among others).

However, despite this, they're still evil. The nerf to their behaviors on Normal didn't remove the fact that you can't carelessly try to Rambo/Leeroy these dudes. All it did was simply tell them "you can't pull your SH routines on a newbie - too aggressive, it'd scare them away". However, their default behaviors still make them a threat.


And on a closing note, one final change I'd make (a brainless one that I wonder why SEGA hasn't done it already): make the Arks Road system pop up the INSTANT you get to the lobby upon first login (whether this comes after your Prologue bit or after you skip said Prologue is the same deal - Arks Road pops up instantly under both situations).

[gigawuts]

On the topic of forces having elemental resists...

I've felt for a while that an interesting solution to forces and having 3 damagetypes would be to remove tatk and base techs off of satk and ratk, with sufficient base quantities of both. Long range techs would use ratk, close range techs would use satk. All multipliers would then work exactly the same way.

Also, masteries should apply to elemental damage on weapons. A 50% fire rifle or sword should be 116% fire after masteries (1.5*1.2*1.2).

What would this do, mainly? Permit specialization based on distance. A ra/fo would be viable to some degrees, and a te/hu could invest fully into satk without gimping its tech damage.

There are flaws with that, but nothing that couldn't be further refined.

[Silver Crow]

On the topic of forces having elemental resists...

I've felt for a while that an interesting solution to forces and having 3 damagetypes would be to remove tatk and base techs off of satk and ratk, with sufficient base quantities of both. Long range techs would use ratk, close range techs would use satk. All multipliers would then work exactly the same way.

Also, masteries should apply to elemental damage on weapons. A 50% fire rifle or sword should be 116% fire after masteries (1.5*1.2*1.2).

What would this do, mainly? Permit specialization based on distance. A ra/fo would be viable to some degrees, and a te/hu could invest fully into satk without gimping its tech damage.

There are flaws with that, but nothing that couldn't be further refined.

that's actually genius, it would open up so many options. So force tree can focus on ranged and techer on melee.

[Macman]

It's a lot worse when fighting them with an infection that just throws like 3 bombs at you and stun you. Fuck fighting Infected bal rados and ragne for that reason.

Hah, tell me about it. Fought a top level infected Bal Dominus in an AQ a couple days ago. Those bombs not only annoyed everyone, they also did 400-450 damage a pop. First time I've seen them be an actual threat.

[musicmf]

1st point: Sub classess, there is no 'viable' unique build!
Everyone subs Hunter for +85% ~70% damage. There is nothing unique about Gu/Hu, it's just Gunner + 70% dmg. Where is the identity of Hu in that build?

Solution:Make every skill tree provide the same FLAT damage bonuses, but differ in unique skills. Like Force PP Revival, Techer PP Restorate, Ranger Weak Bullet, Gunner Attack Restorate... etc I want all builds to be viable, so people can customize things to their preference and not because it gives the most damage

IMO subclasses should have a reduced effect (IDK, 50% penalty on their class skills) for subbing them, while so the main class skills are more important than the Subclass. Similar to how your character only gets 20% stats from the subclass. This way there is actually a difference between HU/BR and BR/HU with a Bio Katana.
Further tweaking can be done on a per-skill basis. Example; "Weak Bullet increases damage by 3x for duration. If Ranger is subbed, damage is increased by 2x instead."

Then nerf Fury Stance a bit, to make it more in line with the buffs other classes give. (FI 44/69% All, BR 33% All, RA 88% R-ATK) Probably make it ~50% when maxed tree, but make all 4 Fury Stance skills give "Take X% More Damage" so the defense penalty is higher.
Also, make JA Up lower non-JA damage by X% as well, to make a penalty for missing a JA. (Like how FI Stances have penalties)
After that, buff up GU (32% R-ATK / FO 33% Magic/TE 20% Element Weakness) a bit to give them a reason to sub. They are too specific, with too low modifiers, with too many skill points invested compared to HU/FI/BR/RA.

After doing this; just adjust the class weapons. Move Assault Rifle to Ranger Only, and Talis to Force Only. Give GU and TE new weapons. (Perhaps FO/BR too, so all classes can have at least 3 unique weapons)
After that, make it so Subclasses can use their weapons. Get rid of this all/multiclass weapon shit. Just make it so you can use main/sub weapons. This way you can play any class as a sub and use their best weapons still, allowing for more variety in the method in which you attack.
Then we can possibly get new weapons (Slicer?) to play around with. And I think TE weapons should have PAs

----------

I also agree that faster attacking, with smaller damage would make the fights more interesting. (Just also increase FO/TE's casting speed if monsters were hyper aggressive >_<)

The simplification of Defense would also be nice, but if this and the bosses getting weaker both happened... it would be excessive IMO.

-----------

And I think Gigawut's idea is a brilliant step in the right decision to balance out FO/TE. It also supports the subclass variety suggestion.
Of course, things need refinement (Otherwise people will just SaFoie with HU sub and such), but it's definitely a neat notion.

[Macman]

Here's how you fix defense:

Make S/R/T-Defense actually goddamn matter
Right now people invest in HP instead since it covers all 3 bases and synergizes with certain skills. All that anyone even cares about is HP and unit's built-in (striking) resistances.
If you make the defense stats have a more dramatic effect, it might be more efficient to actually invest in a bit of defense affixes instead of just stacking stamina on everything.

After that, all you have to worry about is the fact S-Def is used way way more often than R or T-Def, but that's more the fault of monster designers.

[UnLucky]

I don't think there is a need for "you're not right in your mind if you pick defense tree" thing. Its a sort of play style, really. Just as people enjoy watching them-self do bigger numbers, there are those who enjoy watching taking smaller numbers of damage. But naturally, people more often than not have an ego that's all about the bigger, harder and faster. Its a pick of either lots of damage, or being resilient. And people will always prefer damage, always, and is the same reason in games with the "holy trinity" that tanks are in low supply. Being a meat-shield ain't considered fun to a vast majority. Only time people would branch into Defense if they have the option, is if it became glaringly OP or a possible requirement for progress. Even if Fury were slammed down to do half the power it does now, I fully doubt people would opt for Defense, regardless, for reasons mentioned.
Man, I loved duoing group instances with a tank buddy of mine with myself going support. Obviously it would take longer, but we would reap all the profits without rolling against anyone else.

And we were by far the most threatening in team arena PVP. No joke everyone on the server was trying to get on our side because we win the vast majority of battles. But not due to our damage, far from it. I'd be one of the few people actually helping my own team members with heals, status cleansing, or popping defensive cooldowns on someone other than myself, while my friend would actively pull people off of stunned team members. The rest of the group could be drooling casuals but they'd outlast the other side by attrition.

I'm not even exaggerating when I say at one point he alone ran into the enemy spawn point where every single one of them was camping and I single handedly kept him alive for the entire fight until we won.

PSO2 isn't like that at all, though.

[9898]

Here's how you fix defense:

Make S/R/T-Defense actually goddamn matter
Right now people invest in HP instead since it covers all 3 bases and synergizes with certain skills. All that anyone even cares about is HP and unit's built-in (striking) resistances.
If you make the defense stats have a more dramatic effect, it might be more efficient to actually invest in a bit of defense affixes instead of just stacking stamina on everything.

After that, all you have to worry about is the fact S-Def is used way way more often than R or T-Def, but that's more the fault of monster designers.
you're acting like the game needs to be fixed: the nature of the game is rushdown, and defense isn't really an integral part to that. within the paradigm of rushdown centric games pso2 isn't the pinnacle of complexity but they can certainly expand on offensive/aggresive options and make more strategies relevant.

defense is a tertiary mechanic to the real meat of the game. why have them focus on thsi mechanic when they can further the content that helps you acquire gear quicker and reach endgame?

[Chdata]

How to fix defense: Make it an addition, instead of a trade-off.

Honestly I wish they would make speed running a boss take a minimum of like 5-10 minutes, but increase their rare drop rates by a lot. Not only would you actually have to learn how to dodge the boss and survive against it, but it'd also feel much more rewarding.

[Remz69]

How to fix defense: Make it an addition, instead of a trade-off.

Honestly I wish they would make speed running a boss take a minimum of like 5-10 minutes, but increase their rare drop rates by a lot. Not only would you actually have to learn how to dodge the boss and survive against it, but it'd also feel much more rewarding.

they'd have to change more than the drop rates if they wanted fights which last for 5-10mins

no way i'm fighting a ragne for 10mins without falling asleep and no way i even bother with a cougar or Hunar that would take 20mins because i spend more time running/dodging than fighting

[Vetur]

I definitely agree with the first one.
If every subclass gave the same damage boosts(not just one type), I would totally want Force or Techer as all of my characters' subs, for Resta/Anti/PP skills mostly.

I don't really see a problem with regular boss fights, but I agree that they should hurt less in Falz at least, for the same reason you described with Falz... there's just no escape once you get stuck in that repetitive smashing attack. :(
If they at least made it so their attacks didn't one-hit KO everyone who isn't on lv 10 guard stance or trap us into inevitable death that cannot be escaped, that'd be nice.

[Lego]

I am doing kinda defensive armor build but that shit still expensive EX soul same prices as Mizer Soul.

[9898]

How to fix defense: Make it an addition, instead of a trade-off.

Honestly I wish they would make speed running a boss take a minimum of like 5-10 minutes, but increase their rare drop rates by a lot. Not only would you actually have to learn how to dodge the boss and survive against it, but it'd also feel much more rewarding.

the monster behavior (and their attacks) in this game isn't nuanced (something like monster hunter does this better) enough to warrant a consistency over time grind. also environmental awareness (unlike in mh) is pretty much a non issue during boss fights so this doesn't help on the depth side. it's okay for the game to be about speed, really.

tl;dr reductio ad absurdum edition: fighting rappies for 10 minutes isn't very fun.

[gigawuts]

tl;dr reductio ad absurdum edition: fighting rappies for 10 minutes isn't very fun.

This

That said, if Hunter was designed so even a max fury build left enough sp for all gears + 1 tank skill (automate, iron will, or flash guard) I think the class and game would benefit. Also, if things didn't 1-2shot you regardless of your build, flinch was less ridiculous (on both enemies and players), there was invuln when being juggled because losing control is bullshit, and enemies had more hp so they could make it to my third swing in Over End things would be pretty nice.

The only reason to tank right now is to not get flinchkilled while soloing. That's it, really. As said, it should be supplemental and not an alternative. Tanking better should be an alternative, sure, but not being slightly more resilient. Not everyone plays 12/12 MPAs all the time, nor does everyone play at max level all the time. Not everyone plays well, or with great gear either. The game can and should accommodate players in the middle, as just a matter of good design.

Monster Hunter got a lot of things right, and I'd like to see some of that in this game, but this obviously isn't Monster Hunter so it shouldn't even try to be 1:1.

Most enemies just spam the same 3 stupid moves over and over, moves that tend to hit too hard for how frequently and endlessly they're spammed (cyclo swings, marmo snowballs, etc.). What I liked about super hard was most bosses got easier for me because they didn't amp up the damage as much like they did from normal to hard and from hard to very hard. Quartz charges didn't hit me for 1.4x my health like they used to, and of the hundreds of quartzes I've killed I've only seen the quad horn in super hard two times. Some moves still hurt sure, but they aren't that obscenely ridiculous, which made the game more fun for me. Do that to certain trash mobs too please.

And give sword hyper armor during normals and charging animations. Please. For real. Or partisans or wired lances, just one option to use when you're taking a beating. And fix wired lance PAs glitching if the enemy dies during it. This is 2014, let's get some fucking QA going here. You can't randomly make this PA keep dealing damage but that PA stops dealing damage if the grapple target dies. Holy shit Sega get a grip these PAs have been in the game since the alpha you have to know about this by now.

[Walkure]

the monster behavior (and their attacks) in this game isn't nuanced (something like monster hunter does this better) enough to warrant a consistency over time grind. also environmental awareness (unlike in mh) is pretty much a non issue during boss fights so this doesn't help on the depth side. it's okay for the game to be about speed, really.

tl;dr reductio ad absurdum edition: fighting rappies for 10 minutes isn't very fun.As much as I agree, I still liked the power balance that was at the advent of SH, give or take a few changes. It'd be difficult to keep the game at that level consistently but it'd be nice to shoot for around that.


Most enemies just spam the same 3 stupid moves over and over, moves that tend to hit too hard for how frequently and endlessly they're spammed (cyclo swings, marmo snowballs, etc.). More enemies should have dash attacks that they use on getting into range. Maybe not all at once, but there should be at least some immediate threat on enemies converging. It's kinda weird to see all the mobs haul ass to get to you, stop at like 2m from you, then go back to fucking around a bit before attacking.

[Rakurai]

I do find it really stupid that the only threatening attacks from bosses are the ones that either OHKO or stagger lock you until you're dead. It just makes deaths feel frustrating when they're a result of a single slip-up.

I'd like if they'd at least nerf the damage on the latter so that people can realistically survive them, because those attacks tend to not even be choreographed much at all, unlike some other moves where you pretty much deserve to die if you get hit by them, like the Dragon Ex's Overend imitation.

[gigawuts]

I know PSO1 wasn't exactly the toughest game ever, but I did like that as a result of trying to conserve my PB - which meant no trips to Pioneer 2 - I was fighting a battle of attrition, avoiding hits to conserve mates (and/or fluids, if on a meatsack).

Mono and dimates became nigh useless towards the endgame, and it was all about the trimates and lolstar atomizers just because monos and dis healed for so much less than something that maxed your health. It was a slower sort of battle of attrition, where you could make mistakes but they'd leave a bigger dent in your resources over time.

PSO2 throws heals at you, but will 1-2shot you or flinch you when you make one mistake, usually with stuff not even on your screen. My favorite is fighting ragne in forest and dying to a single energy spire, at the very edge of its range, followed by a rolling gorongo and a zaudan throwing a boulder that weren't even there when I looked 20 seconds ago.

[strikerhunter]

@OP
-Point 1: Agree.
All damage boosts needs to be flat out damage instead of specific damages along with having something unique bout each class that would be of interest to take (weapons or specific skills like PP revival/convert).

Point 2: Agree.
-The main issue is that they are too far weak against players. They need a dramatic buff into their HP, s/t/r-def, a larger move pool, specific script moves that will happen at certain points, and increase attack and movement rates.
-Another issue is that bosses are not over level comparing to players. Make their levels extremely higher than the player cap or something instead of tying it to players' level cap. Beating your superior feels like an accomplishment whereas beating your co-worker/classmate/whatever the term isn't really an accomplishment.
-Hell, even PSP2 and PSP2i's bosses and mobs are better designed than PSO2's when it came down to fights. PSP2/i's bosses where threatening as hell. It's like Sega took a step back on boss fights to just make them look better.

Point 3: Agree.
-Both mobs and bosses needs to have a nerf in their s/r/t-atk, I mean seriously wtf is the point of bosses besides more rare drops that won't even drop when mobs can do the same damage? The bosses in PSO2 shouldn't even be called bosses, they should be just called big larger mobs.
-s/r/t-def will matter more if mobs couldn't OHKO or 2-3 hit KO you. If you're taking on a new mode, no doubt you should be KO'd in a few hits but with up-to-date units then you shouldn't be getting killed as fast.


@Gigs and 9898
I agree with point on Monster Hunter, the Monster A.I.s there tops off everything in PSO2 (not to mention that one monster in frontier that has an A.I. that studies and learns about the player.)

[Enforcer MKV]

PSO2 throws heals at you, but will 1-2shot you or flinch you when you make one mistake, usually with stuff not even on your screen. My favorite is fighting ragne in forest and dying to a single energy spire, at the very edge of its range, followed by a rolling gorongo and a zaudan throwing a boulder that weren't even there when I looked 20 seconds ago.

I find that this happens to me a lot on Falz arms. I'll sweep along the back when playing Aurroris and while I'm focusing on casting Techs, I'll get swept by Falz' laser. Usually one hits me on Aurroris, too.

[TheAstarion]

Cap the total multipliers from passives, stances and conditional bonuses at 250% combined. Make people aware of this cap, and let them weigh up the pros and cons of stacking conditional bonuses over the max for convenience, versus just picking something legitimately convenient. Encourages creative builds, convenience builds, hybrids the way hybrids should be, and still allows you to just be an Armsmaster if you just do not like things that aren't guns. It would make balancing a lot easier too, now and beyond, if there was an assumed power level to take into account.

Make all current existing multipliers work for all damage (Force Fire Advance working on all fire-type weapons for instance, in addition to the good suggestions others have made like zero range advance, weak hit advance etc). Increase multipliers in proportion to the difficulty of maintaining the conditions (Wise Stance should be more like 100% total damage bonus at -least-).

Replace stat ups with +% damage of that type, maybe a % reduction in equipment requirements too. (-% damage reduction for defenses). This future-proofs these skills while not making them overpowered for multiclassing.

Do more to differentiate Force from Techer. FOTE/TEFO might not have to be the strongest mage, but it should be the easiest combo to pick up and play, with the most convenient synergy. But right now that's just drawing more attention to the fact that they have the same movepool. Accentuate Force's brute force casting potential, ignoring elemental properties to just pick the strongest tech for the situation. Play up Techer's elemental bias, maybe give them unique elemental buffs (Enfoie, Enzonde, Engrants etc?) to give the party added elemental percents... One at a time, stacking with existing elements or making dual element attacks. PAs for tech weapons that aren't just spells, like an earthquake for rod, or a card storm for talis, or just PSU saber PAs for wand. And make Territory Burst into a massive deployable area that the entire MPA can see, in which all support skills have absolute dominance. If you stand in this area and the techer casts something in this area, you will be helped by it.

I had ideas for extra classes too, but most of them are "it would be cool if..." ideas. The biggest one though was a racial skill tree... Things like SUV-weapon, trap search and poison immunity for CASTs, maybe innate tech aptitude, force's charge PP revival and PP regen for newmans, gunslash gear and a few seconds' bonus for switching weapon types for human, and infinity blasts for dumans... then the reworked stat boosts on there too. T-atk and T-def for newmans, R-atk and R-def for CASTs, all 3 atk and def stats for humans (up to you where to take your boring snowflake) and all 3 attacks for Dumans (no def for you), leaving the glaring hole of s-atk/s-def only for the inevitable Beasts, who I'd give Nanoblast and a Carnage skill to increase the number of hitboxes per enemy within an attack's normal AoE (I'd also have this as the main gimmick of a new class so not only Beast would get it, just Beast would have 1 more target with or without the class and skill).

Oh, and units with Potentials please? Boss units could be as simple as "resists 1/2/3% of damage from that enemy type", others might be as simple as a 25/50/75% boost to the set bonus or something. I dunno, something cool, something to give us another moneysink to make ourselves feel more customised.

And off-the-wall crafting recipes, like a 12-1300 s-atk doublesaber that requires 700 t-atk to equip, can't be used by main - Fighter but can be used by anyone else, essentially giving specific hybrids like FOFI and TEFI a backup weapon that doesn't suck under the new multiplier system.

[Zyrusticae]

2nd point: Bosses aren't challenging, yet punish you badly.
[SPOILER-box]The literal definition of fun is Challenging*Forgiving, pso2 decided to go with the opposite...

The bosses in pso2 really dull your senses. The attack animations are so repetitive, slow, easy to predict, yet sometimes they knock you down and beat mercilessly on you (like when entering Dark Falz after you miss the portal countdown, only to be raped on the floor by hands)

Solution: Make bosses do less damage per hit, but increase their animation's speed, reduce animation delays to almost nothing. And add invincibility frames for when you're knocked to the ground. This will make it so you're on your toes throughout the fight, but can afford a few mistakes.[/SPOILER-box]
YES, PLEASE. Not just bosses, normal enemies are bad for this, too. Like another poster said, they really need more dash attacks, more gap closers, more aggression with lower damage overall. The game as a whole would benefit hugely from this. If it's supposed to be an action game then it really needs to play up that aspect.

This plus a skill tree rework, plus rebalanced PAs would completely revitalize the game for me.

[gigawuts]

BUT THEN HOW WOULD THEY SELL SCAPEDOLLS FOR 150 AC??????

?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?????

[Xaeris]

It'd be nice if they released some statistics on what people buy with AC, but I really doubt Scape Dolls are one of their big sellers. If I had to guess, it's probably down there with the exp tickets. Partly because of cost, partly because Half Dolls and partly because...well, why.

[Skyly HUmar]

OOOOH if i could list the things I wished to see changed within 30 minutes.

If the game was half like what you guys are suggesting i'd download those 20+gigs in a heartbeat. but why do the people who create the games not know all of this? Or is sega too lazy or prideful to fix mistakes?

[Silver Crow]

It'd be nice if they released some statistics on what people buy with AC, but I really doubt Scape Dolls are one of their big sellers. If I had to guess, it's probably down there with the exp tickets. Partly because of cost, partly because Half Dolls and partly because...well, why.

I am a victim of scape dolls, I've bought them before out of desperation >-< really sucks how expensive they are, they should make them 50ac

[Yoona]

It'd be nice if they released some statistics on what people buy with AC, but I really doubt Scape Dolls are one of their big sellers. If I had to guess, it's probably down there with the exp tickets. Partly because of cost, partly because Half Dolls and partly because...well, why.

There's this. (http://www.pso2luna.com/how-much-phantasy-star-online-2-players-spend/)

Probably out of date by now but hey.

[Lostbob117]

What I think they should change is

A) Nerf everything to be flat stats (Like how Fury Stance was like 200 or something S-Atk) and nerf the enemies to be able to be dealt with by players with the nerfed stats.


B) Buff everything to be percents. (Skills like PP Slayer, Photon Flare, etc.) this will.