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Skyly HUmar
May 6, 2014, 09:59 PM
How much will shunka be nerfed by!? Will it be the typical nerf a bit and bring everything else up to pace!? Will they make it completely irrelevant!? Or will you place a bet on the dark horse and say that sega will actually do shit right for a change!?

my money is on the first option

Vetur
May 6, 2014, 10:02 PM
Will probably be impossible for them to make it perfect, but either above or below instead of balanced... I dunno.

Jazneo
May 6, 2014, 10:05 PM
why they need to nerf when there no pvp lol

Shinamori
May 6, 2014, 10:05 PM
They aren't nerfing shunka yet, are they?

Hobu
May 6, 2014, 10:08 PM
Haha it doesn't matter really. I survived the days when Shunka wasn't even there.

Maenara
May 6, 2014, 10:08 PM
I hope they nerf it enough that it makes anyone who exclusively spams it very sorry immediately afterwards.

PrinceBrightstar
May 6, 2014, 10:08 PM
I'll take the comical position, they buff it even more.

pkemr4
May 6, 2014, 10:09 PM
wait. the nerfs are coming this patch?

SakoHaruo
May 6, 2014, 10:09 PM
Leave Shunka alone

Maenara
May 6, 2014, 10:16 PM
Leave Shunka alone

Shunka shouldn't be left alone until I ask my teammates "What's a good PA set for Katana?" and not get "Shunka-Shunka-Shunka" as a response. Same applies to Twin Daggers and Bloody Sarabande, Double Sabres and Deadly Archer, and everything else with a technic/PA that's so significantly better than everything else in comparison that it's not worth using anything else even in the situations they would be 0.24% better in.

GoldenFalcon
May 6, 2014, 10:16 PM
All they will do is raise PP cost

yoshiblue
May 6, 2014, 10:20 PM
Nurf shunka

Buff Ranger dodge to Kingdom Heart's level of invincibility. :wacko:

infiniteeverlasting
May 6, 2014, 10:22 PM
im so nervous i wont be able to sleep tonight...

not. it doesnt matter, hatou will still rip enemies to shreds. i put my bets that sega is just going to raise the pp cost to ~45, which makes sense for its damage output.

edit: or watch them just go like, ha JK, ilmegid catches force up to braver, so nahh we dont need a nerf anymore.

strikerhunter
May 6, 2014, 10:22 PM
All they will do is raise PP cost

This, I'm expecting a x2 or x3 PP cost.

Kokonoe
May 6, 2014, 10:23 PM
Is this happening tonight?

strikerhunter
May 6, 2014, 10:26 PM
Is this happening tonight?

I doubt it, I remember that it was mentioned for sometime in May. (late May?)

Skyly HUmar
May 6, 2014, 10:27 PM
I declare PP cost and accidental buff instead of nerf in the race as well. Accidental buff is actually looking like a winner atm considering how often sega puts out emergency maint after every update.


And yes, your shunka is being affected now. (at least thats what ive been told lol)

Evangelion X.XX
May 6, 2014, 10:28 PM
I think they will nerf Shunka by ~20-25%.

But whatever the nerf, I'm poised to hear all the whining, complaining, rage, etc. that will ensue afterward.

I hope the nerfs to both Braver and Gunner won't be so crippling that Force and Ranger will be the only carriers of TD1, TD2, and the upcoming TD3. I don't want it to be either FO or RA or gtfo.

Vetur
May 6, 2014, 10:31 PM
I personally would not mind a PP raise, since I never notice my PP go down by much when I used Shunka. XD
As long as they don't break the class and make it weaker than anyone.
I think they should buff the other class' PAs/Techs to be at least a little bit closer to Shunka/Il Megid.

infiniteeverlasting
May 6, 2014, 10:33 PM
Let's just hope the nerf doesn't make people end up laying that katana on top of their living room fireplace, a keepsake for glorious memories. R. I. P. The samurai's sword.

But I wouldn't mind if they buffed Sakura endo in turn of nerfing shunka.

pkemr4
May 6, 2014, 10:34 PM
I think they will nerf Shunka by ~20-25%.

But whatever the nerf, I'm poised to hear all the whining, complaining, rage, etc. that will ensue afterward.

I hope the nerfs to both Braver and Gunner won't be so crippling that Force and Ranger will be the only carriers of TD1, TD2, and the upcoming TD3. I don't want it to be either FO or RA or gtfo.

unless im playing rahu wrong, Ra/hu isnt that great for TD except for WB'ing boss's and sat cannoning them do death. mobbing wise i feel it doesnt do enough damage to compete with illmegid or shunka or IF/ER as far as tower defense is concerned.

Skyly HUmar
May 6, 2014, 10:34 PM
I personally would not mind a PP raise, since I never notice my PP go down by much when I used Shunka. XD
As long as they don't break the class and make it weaker than anyone.
I think they should buff the other class' PAs/Techs to be at least a little bit closer to Shunka/Il Megid.

Braver should by no means be stronger than hu or fi in melee or ra and gu in range, it is a hybrid class, it should be good at both and have options (and yes this requires a skill tree reboot that sega wont ever do because they have their thumbs up their asses) but never be quite as adept at them as classes that main those attributes. Them being stronger than melee mains and range mains is just a broken concept.

schnee4
May 6, 2014, 10:40 PM
shunka nerf?
hahaha yes and nerf satller cannon and il megid too!
no there will be no nerf, sry if you fail to see balance

Tomo-Kinji
May 6, 2014, 10:41 PM
No polls? Been expecting that.

Ciel~Homura
May 6, 2014, 10:43 PM
Hatou Rindou is more than enough. Shunka Shunran is just a bonus.

I bet it won't be unusable.

Aurorra
May 6, 2014, 10:43 PM
Yeah, I'm betting on no nerf too because of lolmegid.

Skyly HUmar
May 6, 2014, 10:43 PM
idc much about polls, i just wanna hear the opinions out there.

Skyly HUmar
May 6, 2014, 10:44 PM
Yeah, I'm betting on no nerf too because of lolmegid.

sega already promised to nerf shunka, the question is whether they will do a good job of it or not.

Z-0
May 6, 2014, 10:48 PM
Ugh, they never promised to nerf Shunka or S-Roll. They said that if their class balancing patches don't have people stop playing Braver / Gunner all the time, they'd nerf them.

arnd
May 6, 2014, 10:58 PM
Ugh, they never promised to nerf Shunka or S-Roll. They said that if their class balancing patches don't have people stop playing Braver / Gunner all the time, they'd nerf them.

Exactly. The entire situation seemed like they are leaning towards an option of buffing other classes to braver/gunner level while avoiding the entire "nerf-into-the-ground" design philosophy.

AkumaYouji
May 6, 2014, 11:01 PM
Hatou Rindou is more than enough. Shunka Shunran is just a bonus.

I bet it won't be unusable.

agree with this, I personally prefer Hatou Rindou over shunka. It should be higher risk for the reward they give you or just little reward (less damage) for how easy it is to use. I.E Hatou Rindou blows if you dont distance yourself correctly.

Skyly HUmar
May 6, 2014, 11:02 PM
Ugh, they never promised to nerf Shunka or S-Roll. They said that if their class balancing patches don't have people stop playing Braver / Gunner all the time, they'd nerf them.

ergo, nerfs will probably happen.

Im just going off of what ive heard lol. Topic is still about opinions. What do you think would happen if said nerf were to occur zio?

Walkure
May 6, 2014, 11:13 PM
Ugh, they never promised to nerf Shunka or S-Roll. They said that if their class balancing patches don't have people stop playing Braver / Gunner all the time, they'd nerf them.
^

I'd say they've already brought up FO (and casting TE to a lesser extent) to around the same level, even excluding Nifta Burst. RA may not be all the way there, but it has WB for it's own broken mechanic so that works out.


Shunka shouldn't be left alone until I ask my teammates "What's a good PA set for Katana?" and not get "Shunka-Shunka-Shunka" as a response. Same applies to Twin Daggers and Bloody Sarabande, Double Sabres and Deadly Archer, and everything else with a technic/PA that's so significantly better than everything else in comparison that it's not worth using anything else even in the situations they would be 0.24% better in.Katana has multiple PAs worth using. Hatou for single-target burst and Kanran for AoE mobbing, crowd control, and smacking weakpoints at the same time. Someone who just shunkas is gonna be a lot less effective.

Twin Daggers also have Symphonic Drive for hitting mobile targets and boss weakpoints that you can't easily Darcher or Backhand. That's a whole other niche to the weapon that Sarabande doesn't do well at all.

Double Saber gets a fair amount out of Chaos Riser with gear.

AkumaYouji
May 6, 2014, 11:13 PM
ergo, nerfs will probably happen.

Im just going off of what ive heard lol. Topic is still about opinions. What do you think would happen if said nerf were to occur zio?

if it occured then i wont look like a shunka fag for conveniently using HU/BR (although i guess the popular one is BR/HU)

and more on topic, the "shunka" squad will move on to the next OP mechanic since its what those people do.

Evangelion X.XX
May 6, 2014, 11:22 PM
Yeah. There will always be lazy spammers.... although what can I say, there is logic behind spamming an OP move. I mean... I don't blame them because it is indeed efficient provided that they don't die like a gazillion times or whatever and annoy everyone else.

Dark Matter
May 6, 2014, 11:30 PM
why do they need to be nerfed when theres no pvp? lol

I accidentally wrote you an essay my bad...
[SPOILER-BOX]As logical as this sounds, it still holds a bit of fault.
The game is supposed to hold a bit of equality in terms of
single persons power compared to another persons power.


When Td2 was made braver was a suitable class to help for completion
of the emergency quest because of shunka but its too efficient making
its other pa's obsolete in terms of use.

But the main problem that sticks out is if shunka does get nerfed by ?%
it will only hinder the the parties and mpas those players join meaning
that those players who aren't bravers will have to carry those who are and
simply buffing other classes wont work either because if that happens the
because the classes are supposed to be specialists of their field each still
being able to complete their objective but still with a bit of resistance.

HU/FI/BR having reasonable dmg while being able to take hits
Ra/GU firing from a distance for support fire evasive but less in terms of impact defense
Fo/TE elemental assistance and health support it may hold the least in terms of hits and
once upon a time dmg but it gets a large variety of moves for use for multiple
enemies

The only way I think they could fix shunka is having a double edged sword effect
where the user loses a large amount of Hp when using it to deter the player from spamming it freely
obviously the player wont drop to 0 instantly but to a significant point where the player would willing
want to use a dimate or trimate to stay alive.

http://img2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20130323235121/magi/images/thumb/2/28/Alibaba_drunk.png/200px-Alibaba_drunk.png


Then again this could all be bs and its just the bitter ramblings of souls
who hate to see the happiness with the possibility that they look forward to pvp constantly
and all they think of is stabbing the closest scrub they can get their hands on
but theyll rage louder than the ____ ___ ____ ____ the second they die.

However many forget that the player location system isnt perfect.

example
when you and another person both dash side by side on
the other screen may seem ahead of you but on that persons screen youre behind them so knowing the exact spot is hard
and even worse the connection some players hold when they play this game causing them to d/c at the most important times.
Then theres the server side lagg that pops up somedays then an emergency mait pops up where I can look
forword to my brand spanking new tribooster.[/SPOILER-BOX]

Vampy
May 6, 2014, 11:33 PM
Shunka shouldn't be left alone until I ask my teammates "What's a good PA set for Katana?" and not get "Shunka-Shunka-Shunka" as a response. Same applies to Twin Daggers and Bloody Sarabande, Double Sabres and Deadly Archer, and everything else with a technic/PA that's so significantly better than everything else in comparison that it's not worth using anything else even in the situations they would be 0.24% better in.

There is a difference between shunka and bloody/deadly archer katana braver has PAs to fall back on even with a shunka nerf. Fighter's twin daggers and double sabers don't. Not even close they need a buff in their PAs if anything they lack the power and have to deal with the penalties of brave/wise stance.

Goukezitsu
May 6, 2014, 11:35 PM
New changes made every class pretty nice (I think a lot of people exaggerate the balance of classes in general). I don't think a nerfs coming anymore and if it does 20% at maximum is good enough. It will ruin the first strike damage and everyones lovely KS in TD but still be strong enough to rock out on heavys and mids and sweep stray trash. It would also make those who are serious about braver go for yashas or stronger katanas so they could get near pre nerf lvs of shunka and it would take away from the hu/br susanoo affair.

People will have to learn how to use rindou finally however. Oh and not get away with trashy katanas so they can actually benefit from kanran (most people shunka trashy mobs cuz it does enough damage to 1 shot even with bad katanas when others use kanran to handle a group of the same enemies with good katanas and 2 kanrans).

Side note: Hunter and max fury gear is so fucking lovely now. It's the only thing ive wanted for hunter since forever and I'm so happy its here now. It makes hunter exactly how I want it.

Rien
May 6, 2014, 11:49 PM
Bows are still shit for anything that's not a boss.

I'm not going to say anything about partisan because I don't have slide end 16 ;-;

Kokonoe
May 6, 2014, 11:50 PM
They need to completely rebalance every single PA in the game, which they said they were gonna do so I look forward to that. One thing that really kills the joy of this game is how most moves just aren't worth using and certain classes just aren't fast enough to keep up with the best classes.

Hobu
May 6, 2014, 11:53 PM
Slide End 16 is godly. You should get it with Enraged Stance Helen palata. :P

Vintasticvin
May 6, 2014, 11:55 PM
Shunka SHUNkaaaaa?! Shun shunkashunka!

Chdata
May 6, 2014, 11:56 PM
All they can do to nerf shunka is either lower its damage so it isn't a one-two hit kill on mobs for people with enough S-atk, or make it cost more PP like Giga usually suggests (10 PP per dash).

It sounds like it'd be nerfed to still be great single target damage but suck for mobbing imo. Or they'll make it as butterknife as the rest of BR's PAs already were before it existed.

Daemon Gildas
May 7, 2014, 12:00 AM
Well, I'm still fairly new to the game, but... Shunka definitely seems pretty awesome, perhaps overwhelmingly so. I wound up using it, because the damage is phenomenal, but if I'm being honest, I actually found the default "uppercut-slash" skill (I forget the name) to be a lot more *fun*. The dash-attack has its uses, for sure, but I think the kicker is just that it does so much more damage.

I'd like to see something in the middle. Keep Shunka's damage higher, but brought down just a bit, and raise the numbers on other attacks. Knocking an enemy into the air, for example, *sounds* like it would be useful, but the damage is so low, I don't really feel like I'm getting much out of the skill when I'm attacking bosses and targets immune to its effects.

I mean, given that Shunka is horrendously difficult to control (in my opinion), I think it should still remain quite a lot higher damage than the alternatives I've used so far, since dashing to your enemy really isn't *that* useful, in the grand scheme of things. But again, that's just me!

Walkure
May 7, 2014, 12:06 AM
Bows are still shit for anything that's not a boss.

Surprised that when they dropped the paradigm of "katana for mobbing, bow for bossing" and gave katana a shitton of bossing PAs, they didn't add any great mobbing PAs for bows.

Hybrid bravers were cool while they lasted, I guess. Kinda glad I decided against getting a DEX mag and tree for it.

strikerhunter
May 7, 2014, 12:07 AM
since dashing to your enemy really isn't *that* useful, in the grand scheme of things. But again, that's just me!

Wait what? Go tell that to overend and ever other non-dash/ranged PAs.

The dashing part is is pretty much what every melee class would want so that they can get to mobs/bosses faster before FOs TEs RAs and GUs can kill them before they get to the mob.

WildarmsRE5
May 7, 2014, 12:09 AM
unless im playing rahu wrong, Ra/hu isnt that great for TD except for WB'ing boss's and sat cannoning them do death. mobbing wise i feel it doesnt do enough damage to compete with illmegid or shunka or IF/ER as far as tower defense is concerned.gotta learn how to ClusterFuck Bullet Headshot stuff.

Sanguine2009
May 7, 2014, 12:33 AM
i hope the gut shunka dunka to unusable levels just for the delicious bad braver tears, should not end up affecting the good bravers too much though

Vintasticvin
May 7, 2014, 12:46 AM
i hope the gut shunka dunka to unusable levels just for the delicious bad braver tears, should not end up affecting the good bravers too much though

D: Shunka shunkaaaaaa!

Walkure
May 7, 2014, 12:56 AM
I'd get a kick out of a crippling nerf, but it's not happening. Again, it's looking like they're going to raise everything else to around that power. With additional difficulties, and other PAs getting their power raised for those said enemies, Shunka will eventually get killed over time. It'll be like how Over End and Deadly Archer fell into balance or non-usage.

Ephidiel
May 7, 2014, 12:58 AM
Until the next op braver pa comes along and all the whiners cry for a nerf again

Ciel~Homura
May 7, 2014, 01:02 AM
Let's see... there is none any of news about nerf anything yet. ( http://pso2.jp/players/ )

So...

Right now i doubt they will nerf anything. I guess Sega choose " buff everything " path instead.

Ephidiel
May 7, 2014, 01:09 AM
Which is fine since it is pve oriented gameplay and there is much less need to balance the classes

Daemon Gildas
May 7, 2014, 01:15 AM
Wait what? Go tell that to overend and ever other non-dash/ranged PAs.

The dashing part is is pretty much what every melee class would want so that they can get to mobs/bosses faster before FOs TEs RAs and GUs can kill them before they get to the mob.

Well, I just know that when I used the uppercut-slash, I could pretty much stay airborne indefinitely, making me practically impossible for most enemies to hit me. The damage was absolutely garbage, though, but it was still incredibly useful. Shunka is definitely a lot more powerful, but I also find myself on the verge of death much more frequently, because the skill is pure offense, but not quite so much versatility.

Again, though; maybe I'm just not using it correctly.

Ephidiel
May 7, 2014, 01:22 AM
People kept spamming shunka into attacks and fell like flies
If you actually learn how to alternate between shunka and the othe pa and learn the timing
Between enemy attacks you can do devastating damage especially paired with a zondeel user

Walkure
May 7, 2014, 01:24 AM
Have a high level Hunter sub and have enough modifiers behind your attacks blow up trash before they blow you up. Can also abuse Combat Escape for risk-free gameplay.

Or use kanran and hatou accordingly.

Evangelion X.XX
May 7, 2014, 01:25 AM
The "correct" way to use Shunka is to:

1) Go into KC with CE and then start Shunka-ing until the timer runs out.

2) Shunka at the peak of your jump for "smaller" mobs in order to avoid getting hit; works on Goldies.

3) Shunka a stunned/staggered/screaming target.

When the situation is too "hot", back away and use Hatou.

Yden
May 7, 2014, 01:30 AM
People kept spamming shunka into attacks and fell like flies
If you actually learn how to alternate between shunka and the othe pa and learn the timing
Between enemy attacks you can do devastating damage especially paired with a zondeel user

The bigger issue is that because of combat escape, you can shunka without any regards to enemy attacks almost every minute if you spam the skill.

Ephidiel
May 7, 2014, 01:34 AM
Well still you dont want to do nothing while combat escape is in cooldown do you XD
So might as well learn enemy patterns

Hobu
May 7, 2014, 01:47 AM
I would have more time to learn how to use my Kazan Nadeshiko. It is a pretty badass Katana PA, especially at lv16.

Like I said, even if they nerfed it, I played before Shunka Shunran even came into existence in PSO2. I wouldn't really mind.

Daemon Gildas
May 7, 2014, 01:50 AM
Well, I suppose this is as good a time as any to ask; what exactly is the benefit of assigning three different PA's? Does your character just cycle through them in order, or is there a way to "choose" which PA to use? Using the PA's on the Bullet Bow was pretty straight-forward, but it seems like with a melee weapon, you would just equip all three PA slots with the same skill.

Ephidiel
May 7, 2014, 01:54 AM
I use the 4 slots on the weapon pallete and assign 3 different PAs weirdly enough hatou rindou is always on them though

Evangelion X.XX
May 7, 2014, 01:56 AM
The weapon-pallete-pa-system was designed for combo-ing pa's.

However, it's just way more efficient to just spam stuff (having the same pa in all 3 pa slots).

Aurorra
May 7, 2014, 01:59 AM
You just cycle through them depending on where you are in your 3 swing attack sequence. Assigning different PAs is useful if you want combo one after another, but in general the PAs that combo well together are extremely weak (Looking at you Tsukimi Sazanka and Gekka Zakuro).

Friyn
May 7, 2014, 05:20 AM
It's sad to see so many people attempting to defend Shunka. What's even worse is that people think buffing other classes/photon arts to Shunka level OP is a viable solution. I sincerely hope JP community does not think the same way, after all they're the vocal majority behind communication between SEGA and the playerbase.

infiniteeverlasting
May 7, 2014, 06:40 AM
So, was there a nerf in the end?

Skyly HUmar
May 7, 2014, 12:24 PM
No nerf in the end. I guess if it happens it will be after sakai determines that too many people have stuck to braver.

And yeah, making everything else as op is not a proper solution lol, all that does is make an already easy game pointlessly easy.

Kietsu
May 7, 2014, 01:54 PM
If every other class got buffed to the point that they could compete with Shunka, it'd still suck, because Shunka would still be the only Braver PA worth using outside of situations where you might actually need to stop dashing around long enough to parry something. Force and Gunner at least have two or three solid damage options at the moment.

DJcooltrainer
May 7, 2014, 02:19 PM
Judging by the amount of HP Falz Luther/Loser has, I think we might be seeing more power creep and less nerf. 1st run took 25 minutes, and the 2nd took about 20-ish. If you compare that to the time it takes to complete any other boss, that's kind of a crazy leap in difficulty.

That's just what I'm speculating, I usually end up being wrong about this kind of stuff.

Walkure
May 7, 2014, 02:36 PM
No nerf in the end. I guess if it happens it will be after sakai determines that too many people have stuck to braver.

And yeah, making everything else as op is not a proper solution lol, all that does is make an already easy game pointlessly easy.If they don't buff enemy HP, sure.

We're only like two difficulty increases and several rounds of PA/class buffing before Shunka is sufficiently nerfed to the ground! :beer:

Skyly HUmar
May 7, 2014, 02:44 PM
I actually saw a 15 minute run with no wb earlier lol. Honestly doesn't seem like the boss is too hard, just takes a while to kill.

And yes 2 difficulties from now shunka will be a thing of the past. Maybe even earlier depending on what they buff/add.

omgwtflolbbl
May 7, 2014, 02:56 PM
I just got super carried by some random group on ship 10 for a 6 minute run. I was pretty much dead weight, a level 50/32 Br/Hu, but they still cleaned up fast. The key seems to be breaking open the center so you can attack the weak point the entire fight. I'm not sure if you just force it open by attacking it a bunch or what. I started out just attacking the arms to try and lower him like I did in the first 2 runs, but then I realized that everyone was going to town on his center, so I didn't see it.