wow much spoiler: Established roles, futures of each Dark Falz

[Maenara]

Abandon all complaints of spoilers all ye who enter.

So far, it's been established that there are four true Dark Falz. [Elder], [Apprentice], [Persona], and [Double]. [Loser]'s status as a 'true' Dark Falz is iffy.

Most recently, we've seen [Double] cloning Luther, which probably means they're responsible for Arks clones. Consider that typically an Arks is taken to a Darker Den to be cloned. It's likely that there are multiple Darker Dens, and implied that they are merely imitations of Arks colonies. Given this, would it go to say that [Double] is the creator of Darker Dens? Darker Dens are probably nurseries for Darkers where Darkers are constantly created.
Since [Double] makes clones, did they create the Claris Clones? If they did, that means they were involved with Luther's scheme for a long while. Was Luther just a pawn in all that to them?

[Persona] has unclear roles. However, it can be said that he NEEDS [Elder] for some reason. He is seen searching for something in all the places that pieces of the Clarissa happen to be. When the Clarissa is completed, a Darker attack somehow results in Gettemhart and Melrondia obtaining it, which leads to [Elder]'s unsealing. When Maria would have killed Elder right away with Lavius, [Persona] shows up to save him. These are the only true things he accomplishes.

In the second Chapter EX quest, [Elder] talks about duty and implies that his job is protecting the Darker Dens, but he doesn't care about doing that. Every time Cradle of Darkness shows up as an EQ, and the Arks invade a Darker Den, he does his 'duty' by only sparing a single Falz Arm. Going along with [Persona]'s need of [Elder], he shows up personally every single time, seemingly to pick up [Elder]'s slack.

[Apprentice] seems to be in charge of directing the Darker troops, given her use of them in invading Minjng Bases on Lillipa. [Apprentice] was searching for a Falz body on Lillipa, so her invasions are probably an extension of that search. [Elder]'s body gave him the power to transform into Dark Falz Elder. Whose body is she searching for? Her own? Or is she looking for [Persona]'s, perhaps?
[Persona] is the ONLY Dark Falz that we have never using a single ability besides basic teleportation. Does he just have no power? Is he missing a body that would give him power? Does he just simply hold back?

[Ephidiel]

Since Apprentice is looking for her Body on Lilipa
can't we assume that the Mining Area is were her body is actually sealed?


and Double are probably transforming the Oracle into a Ultimate Darker Den now

[Shinamori]

I think it's safe to assume that Apprentice is looking for her body. As far as directing the troops, it seems she in control of the insect-type darkers like Elder is in control of the aquatic-type darkers.

[Renvalt]

And to extend on Apprentice's ownership of the Insect Tribe (as well as Elder's ownership of the Aquarian Tribe), once Loser had perished, Double can be said to now have full ownership of the Bird Darkers.

Double fits this theme in that A)Birds almost always travel in flocks, the exception to this being birds of prey, which most of the Bird Darkers are not; B)Bird reproduction usually nets a large amount of offspring, with certain birds having higher quantities. Double reproducing Loser in three was probably the limit on that degree of power (though this isn't certain, it could just be that they didn't foresee our intervention when Sara was getting pwned).

As far as Persona goes, though, this is my guess: Persona is the shadow of our intervention into the predetermined chronology of events. He conveniently appears wherever we are because his presence usually signifies an important event that he will not allow to change.

Not to mention this: Elder, Apprentice and Double have been confirmed to have shown up pre-timeline altering. This means that of the Dark Falz incarnations, these three are rooted in history, in a timeline that we have not touched.

However, Persona being unrecognizable to Elder, as well as Apprentice having to improvise a name for him in addition to him only manifesting after we started meddling with the timeline makes me think he's a very Cubia-like existence. The power of timeline alteration is something extremely powerful, so he appears as a manifestation of the force that fights against this.

Thus the name, and thus why his mask is such an important element of his entire being: removing the mask would probably show a deformation of our own face or something to that effect.

A counter to this would be that he's wielding a sword if you are a Ranger/Force/whatever, but then factor in this: what if he's based off the fact that the default vanilla protag is always the HUMar?

IMO, they need to revamp or reiterate just WHAT Persona is. He can't just be a simple run-of-the-mill Darker clone. He's too powerful for that.

[Rien]

Since Apprentice is looking for her Body on Lilipa
can't we assume that the Mining Area is were her body is actually sealed?


and Double are probably transforming the Oracle into a Ultimate Darker Den now

according to other threads, Apprentice is actually searching for Persona's body.

[Chdata]

Just a question: Is the new "hunar" in the story quests actually Hunar, or is it someone else?

[Yden]

according to other threads, Apprentice is actually searching for Persona's body.

Doesn't she specifically mention it's her body she's looking for?

[Maenara]

Just a question: Is the new "hunar" in the story quests actually Hunar, or is it someone else?

The "Hunar" is just called "hunar" because it's like Hunar is to Dark Falz Elder as Falz Angel is to Dark Falz Luther.

[Kondibon]

Doesn't she specifically mention it's her body she's looking for?I'm pretty sure she does. I don't see why she'd be looking for Persona's body anyway given the whole "We don't know who he is, we just let him hang out with us" thing.

[Ephidiel]

Dark Falz Group certainly laid back

[Kondibon]

Dark Falz Group certainly laid back
This is actually something I noticed about them. Double and Luther/Loser are the only ones that actually seem malacious in any meaningful way and Luther isn't even a real falz.

Elder just likes a good fight, Persona has some sort of ulterior motive, and apprentice hasn't been shown to actually even know why darkers attack arks. Based on some things from story quests this might actually have something to do with their hosts still being a part of them.

Or sega is just bad at coming up with motives for villains, but I'm hoping it's a plot point.

EDIT: just to clarify, I'm talking about the times when Elder tells Shina what Ghettemhart was thinking, and when Apprentice freaks out because Afin said she reminds him of his sister.

[Maenara]

Does anyone have a transrated transcript of the post ruther event tablet? I'd love to know what Double is actiually saying.

[bardiche]

Luther's implication of involvement with the bird Darkers seem like a setup to make us suspect that he might be related to the bird Dark Falz all along, and behold he turns into a Dark Falz at the end.. but, the transformation also implies that he -wasn't- one until then. There was a lot of things implicating him throughout the story, but I actually doubt he has any real relation to [Double] until they ate him.

Bird Darkers show up on Wopal when conveniently, Luther had something to hide there.. but having the Darkers show up there when he needs to -hide- something is stupid. He knows full well Arks will have to be deployed where Darkers go, and they might find something inconvenient for him. In fact, that's likely the reason he -has- to go and wipe evidence there.

Bird Darkers attack the mothership and impede our advance when we're heading to the core to find Xion. It happened at an all-too convenient time where Ohza/Marlu/Lisa/Fourier broke out of Abyss and Luther started monologuing. However nothing in his dialogue implies he had any control over them, he simply didn't care about them breaking out of Abyss and simply expects both Arks and Darkers to just entertain him.

We've seen [Double] make clones of Luther and that Darker Dens generate clones just by you being taken there. However, nothing about that points that they have any hand with the Claris clones. Luther and his Void Research Facility conducted countless genetic research that resulted in Arks and more. Would they ever need Darker 'help' to make clones of things they already made themselves ?

I won't deny the story's implications of [Double] involvement, but right now all of it seems like a ruse that culminates in Luther's Dark Falz corruption and subsequent annihilation to [Double] who then states he was just imitating them. Just a defeated monkey. Now whether this means he was specifically imitating [Double] as a bird DF or just imitating the DF in general is unknown.


What this chapter did show though, was that Luther, who was a Photoner started manifesting negative photons and turned into a Dark Falz once his plans was ruined and he raged at us. He came to the conclusion that if he couldn't gain all the knowledge in the universe, then he could just -consume- the universe and obtain it that way. Among all the reveals in this chapter, Xion stated that neither Darkers nor the Arks would have been born if she and the Photoners didn't make contact. This implies that the Photoners were responsible for Darkers somehow, but.. what if it meant one somehow became the other ?

-Xion was a planet that consisted entirely of an ocean that has a will of its own. It's also an existence that houses all the knowledge in the universe that seems to have the role of an observer.
-It copied the form of a female researcher to make contact with the Photoners that discovered it.
-Throughout the chapter, Xion tells us of her guilt in being the root cause of everything. She abandoned her role as strictly an observer to the universe to make friends with the Photoners and usher them on with knowledge.
-As we see from Luther, the Photoners were likely tempted by absolute knowledge and wanted more and more. The 'sea' in the mothership seems to be the ocean of planet Xion, and it's mentioned that Photoners that abandoned their physical forms are now part of it.
-Those same Photoners restricted Luther when Xion was about to commit suicide.

Photoners seem to be masters a controlling photons; we learn that Photoners can exist in spirit without a body; and then we saw a Photoner become a Dark Falz. With what [Double] said about Luther, perhaps there is something missing in how Luther turned into a Dark Falz. Nobody in the DF group were really acquainted with [Persona], but none of them questioned if he was one of them. Maybe theres a greater influence above Dark Falz that connects the other Dark Falz which Luther wasn't part of ?

[Renvalt]

when Elder tells Shina what Ghettemhart was thinking, and when Apprentice freaks out because Afin said she reminds him of his sister.

About that.... this is bothering me.

Shina directly confronting Elder didn't have him fly into a rage, whereas for Apprentice, it gave her one hell of a migraine.

I keep thinking back to the motifs of these two. Elder's power was sealed in the tree, ruler of Aquatic darkers. Some Aquatic creatures are known for carrying parasites on their shells.

In the case of Apprentice, her influence over the Insects makes me wonder.... is her Falz spirit using a corpse doll effect on Yucrita? I ask because one of the myths behind insect parasites is that their will supersedes their host, and manifesting it (AKA possessing their host by eating them from the inside) ends up killing the host.

So is it possible that Yucrita is actually dead, and the pain experienced by Apprentice was the memory of Yucrita's death? I mean, Afin DID say that neither he nor his sister were even part of Arks (Afin joined Arks to solve the mystery of what became of his sister after her mysterious "disappearance" during the First Apprentice Invasion ten years prior; since nobody remembers if he asks, and there isn't any reliable data on it in the databases).

I'm just saying, because that'd be a hell of a Phantasy Star Portable reference if that was the case (IIRC, both you and Emilia had actually legit died and revived in that game).

[silo1991]

something wonder about the falz is about posesing somebody would be nesesary the host has much in common with the personalities , i mean gentemhart only thing in his head was fight someone strong and elder wants to fight just for fun

coincidence i think not

[Daiyousei]

It's so sad that Apprentice is Afin's sister

[Cadfael]

something wonder about the falz is about posesing somebody would be nesesary the host has much in common with the personalities , i mean gentemhart only thing in his head was fight someone strong and elder wants to fight just for fun

coincidence i think not

It could also be that the Dark Falz aspect takes on some of the personality of its host. Gettemhart likes to fight, therefore [Elder] likes to fight.

[gigawuts]

I like the thought that Double clones things. It makes perfect sense, really.

I also like the thought that just one of the Doubles is actually Double; the other is a duplicate of itself.

edit: Also, regarding Luther becoming a Dark Falz - since all Dark Falzes gain their power from the Profound Darkness, which is sealed away in another space/universe/whathaveyou, I find it likely that Luther went directly to the source for his power (which would be when he was just asking for the power from nobody in particular). The PD likely saw his utility in that specific place and time, so was happy to give him a little boost to further its own interests.

edit2: Also, I think the hosts are just in the standard "sleeping, yet subconsciously influencing" state that hosts tend to be in stuff like this. They're not conscious, but their feelings and memories bleed into the controlling entity. I wouldn't be at all surprised if Apprentice eventually flips sides, or loses control with Afin's sister gaining it in some capacity.

[Maenara]

On a slight tangent: Infested Mothership will probably debut as a real area of its own when Falz Angel receives his own EQ.

[Ephidiel]

i kinda expect the Oracle to be the final dungeon of the game

[Shinamori]

I wonder if there will be more falz.

[gigawuts]

On a slight tangent: Infested Mothership will probably debut as a real area of its own when Falz Angel receives his own EQ.

This is pretty much a guarantee. I'll be surprised if we don't get it as a decently accessible area eventually, preferably as an AQ area but I'm not holding my breath on that.

[PokeminMaster]

How does Theodore fit into any of Luther's plans? I've only done half of the Seabed chapter (Echo's half got a black screen in the boss room, and I never bothered going back without the patches installed), so I'm just curious lol

[Yden]

How does Theodore fit into any of Luther's plans? I have yet to complete the fifteenth MB, so I'm just curious lol

An enforcer pretty much. Luther probably saw his untapped potential and decided to give him a little push to unlocking it.

[Ephidiel]

Theodore has cladis claes level of power but ulc pretty much held him back from realizing that
So luther staged something to get theodore

[Shinamori]

I wonder if will see the "Great Light".