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EverlastingGC
May 14, 2014, 09:45 PM
Alright I don't know the first thing about speaking or translating japanese, but Dark Falz Luther kinda makes sense...here's why.

The name Luther could be referring to a Martin Luther a chaothlic priest who was excommunicated from the church.

The mission before DFL has you fight against "apostles" Martin Luther also had many devot followers

When DFL gets weak he produces Crystals that look a lot like stained glass that can be found in almost every single church.

Just me thoughts though, what do you guys think?

TenebriS
May 14, 2014, 09:52 PM
I could be wrong and spoiler something but....

isn't Luther the bad guy that gets transformed into the new dark falz and therefor giving it it's name?

Gardios
May 14, 2014, 10:04 PM
What do you call the first 12 man Dark Falz, "Dark Falz Elder" or "Dark Falz Colossus"? If it's the former, you should call the new Dark Falz "Dark Falz Luther", if it's the latter call him "Dark Falz Loser."

It's that simple.

Kondibon
May 14, 2014, 11:11 PM
What do you call the first 12 man Dark Falz, "Dark Falz Elder" or "Dark Falz Colossus"? If it's the former, you should call the new Dark Falz "Dark Falz Luther", if it's the latter call him "Dark Falz Loser."

It's that simple.

Luther IS his name, but so is loser. They're pronounced the same, thus the pun. I imagine that if his name had furigana that they'd use the exact same katakana. The only reason the english patch calls him Loser is to preserve the pun as best as possible.

Basically his name is spelled, pronounced, and means Loser. But Loser is a homonym with Luther in japanese. As far as I know at lest.

This doesn't change the fact that Loser sounds really dumb in english, but it's by no means "simple".

EDIT: For the record I doubt his name has anything to do with martin luther. Some people say it's a refrence to Lucifer, but I think they picked that name at the same time they picked the name for birdfalz and isn't a refrence to anything specific.

Omega-z
May 14, 2014, 11:16 PM
Like how "Dark Falz Elder" or "Dark Falz Colossus" is. I use "Dark Falz Luther" or "Dark Falz Fallen". Even tho he's just Rappy Falz.

infiniteeverlasting
May 14, 2014, 11:17 PM
It's definitely not referencing anything related towards Martin Luther and his creation of Protestant church. This has nothing to do with the naming of df at all.

gigawuts
May 14, 2014, 11:21 PM
ダークファルス【敗者】 = Dark Falz [haisha]

敗者 = haisha = loser, one who loses, defeated person, vanquished, etc.

ルーサー = ru- sa- = luther

ルーザー = ru- za- = loser

there is no "th" sound in katakana, so it is simulated with either an s sound or a t sound

also 歯医者 = haisha = dentist

edit: for reference, to become a Dark Falz you literally defeat Luther, causing him to snap and turn himself over to the forces behind the creation of Dark Falzes, hence his associated title

Kantalope
May 14, 2014, 11:23 PM
I believe the dead horse has been beaten.

Kondibon
May 14, 2014, 11:25 PM
ルーサー = ru- sa- = luther

ルーザー = ru- za- = loser

there is no "th" sound in katakana, so it is simulated with either an s sound or a t sound

also 歯医者 = haisha = dentistOk, that's the point I'm missing. This makes it a lot clearer. My bad.

Totori
May 14, 2014, 11:38 PM
It's likely something that would be changed in the localized version, as Japan isn't the greatest on the english language.

Zyrusticae
May 14, 2014, 11:51 PM
Just stick with Dark Falz Luther and keep it simple.

He's not even a real Dark Falz anyway, just some chump who borrowed their power for a spell.

Kondibon
May 14, 2014, 11:52 PM
He's not even a real Dark Falz anyway, just some chump who borrowed their power for a spell.That just makes me want to call him Loser more...

Omega-z
May 14, 2014, 11:56 PM
I'm wondering about Hunar now ......I wonder if it was a knock off of using the old PSO term Humar instead, But oh well. Also I'm wondering if the new "Apuso's" are more like Apostle Deloris ("Sarrows") and the rare one Apostle Teresia ("Reap")? wouldn't that make them girls? Thoughts.

GoldenFalcon
May 15, 2014, 12:00 AM
Dark Falz Poser

Chdata
May 15, 2014, 12:00 AM
loser is a stupid joke to uphold

Kondibon
May 15, 2014, 12:11 AM
Dark Falz PoserThis. This is what I'm calling him now.


loser is a stupid joke to upholdI personally find it quite witty. It just sounds really dumb in english.

btw-Niji
May 15, 2014, 12:37 AM
All of you are losers.

KatsuraJun
May 15, 2014, 12:49 AM
Japanese love their puns after all.

Dammy
May 15, 2014, 01:38 AM
What do you call the first 12 man Dark Falz, "Dark Falz Elder" or "Dark Falz Colossus"? If it's the former, you should call the new Dark Falz "Dark Falz Luther", if it's the latter call him "Dark Falz Loser."

It's that simple.

this
just name a quest as "Loser" to keep a pun, but enemy is clearly a "Luther"
calling both quest and monster as "loser" is wrong

Gardios
May 15, 2014, 01:57 AM
Just to clear things up and add to gigawuts' post.

ダークファルス【巨躯】 literally means "Dark Falz Colossus", but he's pronounced "Dark Falz Elder". As an enemy he's called ダークファルス・エルダー, which is also "Dark Falz Elder". The English community calls him "Dark Falz Elder".

ダークファルス【敗者】literally means "Dark Falz Loser", or "Defeated", or whatever you feel like. He's pronounced "Dark Falz Luther". As an enemy he's called ダークファルス・ルーサー, which is also "Dark Falz Luther". If we want to stay consistent, the English community should therefore call him "Dark Falz Luther". That's what I mean by simple, if you call Elder "Elder", you really have no reason to call Luther "Loser".

Kondibon
May 15, 2014, 02:00 AM
At this point I'm surprised everyone doesn't ignore me for being an ignorant asshole all the time. My bad.

btw-Niji
May 15, 2014, 02:01 AM
ダークファルス【巨躯】 literally means "Dark Falz Colossus", but he's pronounced "Dark Falz Elder". As an enemy he's called ダークファルス・エルダー, which is also "Dark Falz Elder". The English community calls him "Dark Falz Elder".

ダークファルス【敗者】literally means "Dark Falz Loser", or "Defeated", or whatever you feel like. He's pronounced "Dark Falz Luther". As an enemy he's called ダークファルス・ルーサー, which is also "Dark Falz Luther". If we want to stay consistent, the English community should therefore call him "Dark Falz Luther". That's what I mean by simple, if you call Elder "Elder", you really have no reason to call Luther "Loser". The fact that it's a wordplay is really only secondary.
This.

/end thread please

Gardios
May 15, 2014, 02:08 AM
At this point I'm surprised everyone doesn't ignore me for being an ignorant asshole all the time. My bad.

You're not ignorant, the couple of players who have scolded me ingame for calling him "Luther" even after explaining them how the DF names work are. :wacko:

Kondibon
May 15, 2014, 02:13 AM
You're not ignorant, the couple of players who have scolded me ingame for calling him "Luther" even after explaining them how the DF names work are. :wacko:Based on the definition of the word ignorant as lacking knowledge, yes, yes I am. I was doing a lot of talking out of my ass. Granted I was running on the idea that this had to do with using Loser as the translation for the kanji, not the actual name of the enemy, but as Giga pointed out, they wouldn't be pronounced exactly the same anyway.

NoiseHERO
May 15, 2014, 02:14 AM
SEGA bad writing and Japan's bad English language abuse in media(especially videogames) combine to make bad names, gotcha!

Dream Drop Distance, gotcha!

Revengeance, gotcha!

All you need is kill, gotcha!

Naruto shippen 8: hurricane chronicals on the night of the ninja exam HD Final Mix+ gotcha!

No 60 page argument this time, gotcha!

Cyron Tanryoku
May 15, 2014, 02:19 AM
they're both dark falz losers anyway
*shades*

NoiseHERO
May 15, 2014, 02:35 AM
they're both dark falz losers anyway
*shades*

/catches "*shades*"

No!

/ROLLPLAY FIGHT BEAMS THEM INTO THE GROUND XDDD

oratank
May 15, 2014, 03:11 AM
loser or luther
i don't see any problem whatever his name is.but if you want to call for vote my vote for loser
cause he is

btw-Niji
May 15, 2014, 03:18 AM
And so are you.

Niagara
May 15, 2014, 04:10 AM
We're all losers, fact.

It doesn't matter, he is still bird jesus for me.

LF > Falz Anger EQ and Darker Den on mothership

Vintasticvin
May 15, 2014, 04:22 AM
We're all losers, fact.

It doesn't matter, he is still bird jesus for me.



@[email protected] You fool your god and its followers will doom us all!!!
[SPOILER-BOX]This is the one true path
http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn57/Vinnieursa/1975261_10152303763972243_1158854429_n_zps49abfeb6 .jpg (http://s301.photobucket.com/user/Vinnieursa/media/1975261_10152303763972243_1158854429_n_zps49abfeb6 .jpg.html)[/SPOILER-BOX]

landman
May 15, 2014, 04:35 AM
Now I like Colossus better. And Loser is awful but Vanquished or something like that would be ok. They don't need to be called the same in "person", "hunar" or "falz" form.

Rakurai
May 15, 2014, 04:45 AM
I like calling him Loser because it's a stupid name.

Mysterious-G
May 15, 2014, 05:22 AM
This case is different to Elder's as Luther actually refers to himself as literally [Loser] in the cutscene after he has been defeated and gone a little cray cray. So even the game uses both terms, and that's why both are just fine and absolutely legit.
I call him Loser, personally. It's more fun to do so.

And what's with some of you guys getting worked up over this so much in the first place? His sub-form is being called Angel in the community as well, despite clearing being supposed to be named Engel, the German word for angel. It really doesn't matter much.

GoldenFalcon
May 15, 2014, 05:45 AM
This case is different to Elder's as Luther actually refers to himself as literally [Loser] in the cutscene

Proof?

Mysterious-G
May 15, 2014, 05:48 AM
[spoiler-box]02:48-03:03

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d1BwbTD3ZxM[/spoiler-box]

GoldenFalcon
May 15, 2014, 06:43 AM
[spoiler-box]video[/spoiler-box]

That's a patch thing..

Mysterious-G
May 15, 2014, 06:44 AM
Huh? Sorry, what do you mean?

GoldenFalcon
May 15, 2014, 06:48 AM
Huh? Sorry, what do you mean?

Translation. For their names

Mysterious-G
May 15, 2014, 06:49 AM
I see. Yeah, the patch translates his name to Loser. That's not related to what I was saying though. Did you see the time marks I gave inside the spoiler box? Please check out that time frame to see the part of Luther calling himself Loser.

Kondibon
May 15, 2014, 07:06 AM
This case is different to Elder's as Luther actually refers to himself as literally [Loser] in the cutscene after he has been defeated and gone a little cray cray. So even the game uses both terms, and that's why both are just fine and absolutely legit.
I call him Loser, personally. It's more fun to do so.
I specifically remember someone saying that during that cutscene he goes from saying "ルーサー" to "敗者". So yes, it's an english patch thing.

GoldenFalcon
May 15, 2014, 07:22 AM
Wow, he does say Loser out loud.

I didn't see the time marks thing. I always code in the start time myself.

Reiketsu
May 15, 2014, 07:25 AM
He doesn't say 'Loser' out loud.

All that changes is that in the chat bubble his name is suddenly written in kanji.
Like giga pointed out earlier, there is a difference in pronounciation between 'loser' and 'luther'.
If you listen to what he actually says in the cutscene, he still calls himself 'Luther', not 'Loser'.

It was the same with Elder before. In the chat bubbles his name is written in kanji, but he pronounces it 'Elder'.

As for Falz Angel, his name is written as ファルス・アンゲル in katakana.
So by pronounciation, it sounds like the German word 'Angel', which translates to 'fishing rod' in English.
A winged being which is called 'Angel' in English is an 'Engel' in German. And 'Engel' would be written as エンゲル in katakana.

Rien
May 15, 2014, 07:51 AM
[spoiler-box]02:48-03:03
PSO2 MB16 Falz Loser Epilogue - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d1BwbTD3ZxM)[/spoiler-box]


I know this isn't the place to do it, but I always wanted to so fuck it:

[spoiler-box][Loser]: Kgh, huff, huff
My strength... has been drained...
Is this... the power of those ARKS?

[Loser]: A curse, a curse upon you ARKS!
To humiliate someone like this... someone like me....!

[Loser]: Hmph.... but, it's not over!
I...! As long as I survive, my path to omniscience cannot be obstructed!

?????: No, Luther. Your "path" ends here.

[Loser]: Re... Regius?
Why are you here?

Regius: It's a long story. I simply think you weren't truly defeated back there.
That's all there is to it.

[Loser]: (I really don't want to translate his laughs)... Then, that's fine!
Let's team up, Regius! Team up!
Lend me your power! For my sake! For the sake of omniscience!

Regius: The sake of all knowledge, huh?
Luther, for just what purpose would you
go so far for that?

[Loser]: Don't you dare question the value of a scientist's study!
To prophetize all things absolutely, that is my purpose
The true value of my existence!

Regius: .... And for that reason, Alma was...

[Loser]: Alma?
Ah, you mean the first Claris Craes! (I don't know which version of Claris you use)

[Loser]: Alright! Alright then, Regius!
Let's trade: I'll bring her back to life!

[Loser]: That only requires some data sorting!
With my..... Dark Falz [Loser]'s powers
That's just a trivial task!

Regius: Dark Falz... [Loser].

[Loser]: What? Why are you shocked?
You should've figured it by now, you know?
You've been following me all this time, you know?

Regius: Yes, even though I had a hunch
I've neglected it to protect our peace
and could not do anything about it. Such a fool.

(they've been using old japanese, but I'm going to refrain from going shakespeare mode)

Regius: And we foolishly clung to the shadows of the past
that we have lost. Such a fool.
..... That fool is me. Those fools are the Three Heroes.

Regius: But, even that will end too.

[Loser]: Re- Regius?

Regius: ......Luther, you said unto me:
Thine sword's purpose is to slay Darkers.
Then... The time is now!

Regius: End it all, Yonohate!

(The kanji for Yonohate is 世果, or World's End)

Regius: Alma..... With this, I'm sure ARKS will return....
To the way you wanted it to be.

Regius: Maria...

Maria: For goodness' sake, the elderly should not be
exerting themselves like that. (I almost wanted to write "you're too old for this shit)

Sara: Well, look who's talking.

Sara: Can't help it, I guess.
Let's return to Shao (Xiao?).

(...okay, not gonna translate double's lines because I don't feel like having to do DOUBLE THE LINES *shot for puns*)[/spoiler-box]

GoldenFalcon
May 15, 2014, 07:56 AM
He doesn't say 'Loser' out loud.

He says "Dark Falz Loser", at the 2:50 mark.

gigawuts
May 15, 2014, 08:06 AM
He says "Dark Falz Loser", at the 2:50 mark.

He says "Dark Falz ru- sa-"

Japanese does not have a TH sound. They use an S sound to simulate it. Just like how they cannot differentiate between Rs or Ls and use a halfway mixed rolled R/L sound instead, and they cannot pronounce a TH and have to use an S to simulate it.

If it was "Loser" the Z would be far more pronounced. It is not. It is an S. They are calling him "ru- sa-" which is Luther.

Stop it.

edit: Additionally, if you actually pay attention and look at what the speech bubble says...
http://puu.sh/8NcOO.jpg
Look familiar? Probably not, so I'll pick it out:
ダークファルス【敗者】
Now it might, seeing as I posted that on page 1

ダークファルス【敗者】 = Dark Falz [haisha]

敗者 = haisha = loser, one who loses, defeated person, vanquished, etc.

ルーサー = ru- sa- = luther

ルーザー = ru- za- = loser

there is no "th" sound in katakana, so it is simulated with either an s sound or a t sound

also 歯医者 = haisha = dentist

edit: for reference, to become a Dark Falz you literally defeat Luther, causing him to snap and turn himself over to the forces behind the creation of Dark Falzes, hence his associated title

Gardios already explained that they write a kanji title, but pronounce their actual name. Elder's name is written as ダークファルス・エルダー - Dark Falz Elder - but is written as ダークファルス【巨躯】 (Dark Falz [kyoku] = Dark Falz [Colossus]) in the quest name and speech bubbles.

Why? I don't know, do I look like you can play golf on my forehead? Ask Sega.

GoldenFalcon
May 15, 2014, 08:18 AM
Gardios already explained that they write a kanji title, but pronounce their actual name.

I missed that.

And from a story view, it seems incorrect for Luther to ask for Dark Falz Luther's power. Since he hasn't turned into Dark Falz yet. And stuff

Ezodagrom
May 15, 2014, 08:33 AM
Loser, Luther, meh, both work.

Clearly we should have called it Dark Falz [Luther (Who Is Also A Loser)]

Z-0
May 15, 2014, 08:36 AM
He shall always be Dark Falz [Dentist] to me.

[spoiler-box]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BnaAWxVCYAAp1Ou.png:large[/spoiler-box]

gigawuts
May 15, 2014, 08:44 AM
Loser, Luther, meh, both work.

I don't expect them to change anything at all, so I mean. I do like the way they kneejerkedly put down PSOW in that same post (and the one above it), why'd you take that part out?

He can still be referred to as "Loser," but that's not his actual name. The same way Elder's name is Elder, but he's occasionally referred to as being colossus IIRC, because look at him half he's the size of Naberius. You know, like me. I'm gigawuts, but I'm also still a Resist/RealLife++ tenbearded necklord.

Ezodagrom
May 15, 2014, 09:05 AM
I don't expect them to change anything at all, so I mean. I do like the way they kneejerkedly put down PSOW in that same post (and the one above it), why'd you take that part out?

He can still be referred to as "Loser," but that's not his actual name. The same way Elder's name is Elder, but he's occasionally referred to as being colossus IIRC, because look at him half he's the size of Naberius. You know, like me. I'm gigawuts, but I'm also still a Resist/RealLife++ tenbearded necklord.
Meh, I didn't feel it necessary to keep the PSOW comment, especially since I only meant to post the "Luther that is also a Loser" comment...

Anyway, to add my 2 cents to the whole Loser/Luther thing...

The other Dark Falzes, Elder, Apprentice, Double, Persona, so far none of them have used proper nouns, I guess "Loser" would fit with that?
Loser/Luther isn't like the other Dark Falzes though, I guess his name doesn't have to be like the others, but there's still the kanji version of his name, the Loser/Luther pun is still there (unless there's another way the kanji fits with his name other than the Loser/Luther pun).

Reiketsu
May 15, 2014, 09:33 AM
There is no denying the pun and it obviously was intentional.

But look at it like this:

If you have the name just in written form, so ダークファルス【敗者】, no one actually pronouncing it, every Japanese would immediately assume it is pronounced as Dark Falz Haisha. Because 'haisha' is how the word 敗者 is pronounced.

Now, if it's the other way around and you only hear the name, no one showing you how it's written, every Japanese would understand 'Luther'. So when you just listen to the cutscenes and don't look at the chat bubbles, Luther keeps referring to himself as 'Luther' not 'Loser'.

It's only when you combine the meaning of the kanji with the similar, but not identical pronounciation of Luther/Loser, that you might realize... wait, it almost sounds like 'loser', and the kanji mean 'loser'... there's a pun here!

But that's really just a play on words. A rhetorical device used by the authors to show they put a bit more thought into the whole thing.
So while it's technically not wrong to call him 'Loser', it's just not natural.

Ezodagrom
May 15, 2014, 09:35 AM
There is no denying the pun and it obviously was intentional.

But look at it like this:

If you have the name just in written form, so ダークファルス【敗者】, no one actually pronouncing it, every Japanese would immediately assume it is pronounced as Dark Falz Haisha. Because 'haisha' is how the word 敗者 is pronounced.

Now, if it's the other way around and you only hear the name, no one showing you how it's written, every Japanese would understand 'Luther'. So when you just listen to the cutscenes and don't look at the chat bubbles, Luther keeps referring to himself as 'Luther' not 'Loser'.

It's only when you combine the meaning of the kanji with the similar, but not identical pronounciation of Luther/Loser, that you might realize... wait, it almost sounds like 'loser', and the kanji mean 'loser'... there's a pun here!

But that's really just a play on words. A rhetorical device used by the authors to show they put a bit more thought into the whole thing.
So while it's technically not wrong to call him 'Loser', it's just not natural.
Being called "Loser" is not natural, but neither is "Elder", "Apprentice", "Double", or "Persona" though.

gigawuts
May 15, 2014, 09:36 AM
The pun is definitely intended, but his name was Luther before with ルーサー and it's still ルーサー after he gets upgraded to DF status. I'm not disputing that ルーサー can be "Loser," but if it wasn't before then it shouldn't be now. The kanji, 敗者, should be though.

As far as I can tell, he's the only DF that isn't some space magic photon consciousness that occupies a host. He's the host, but he's in control too. Gettemhart or whatever his name is is the host for Elder, but Gettemhart isn't actually Elder. Elder was a consciousness they unlocked in the Ruins or something like that. Forgive me, I can only pay so much attention to Naruto levels of anime writing. Same with Apprentice - Afin's sister is the host, but Afin's sister isn't in control.

Luther is actually in control, though. The pun is warranted on at least one level because of that. He's the Dark Falz, and he's the host. It's just a matter of consistency is all.

Any time we'd call DF Elder "DF Colossus," we should call DF Luther "DF Loser." But then, any time we call DF Elder "DF Elder" we should be calling DF Luther "DF Luther."

So in the MPA, on the actual field, where you can target him and see his name in an info box with his wind/light weakness showing? He's Dark Falz Luther. His name above his speech in a speech bubble? Luther. The quest listing? Loser. His name in spoken text? That's iffy. Does the story patch write "Dark Falz [Colossus]" for DF Elder, despite them saying DF Elder out loud? Or do they write "Dark Falz Elder" there? They should just go with what they're already doing.

But, like I said, I don't expect the patch guys to change anything at all. They pretty strongly defend their decisions, and haven't been inclined to budge in the past. They also almost definitely know more about the japanese language than I do, but since these decisions were made before things were really fully known and implemented in the game there's obviously room to want things changed.

edit:

Being called "Loser" is not natural, but neither is "Elder", "Apprentice", "Double", or "Persona" though.

I don't see why these can't be names of photon space magic consciousnesses. I also don't see why these couldn't just be handwaved off as names chosen just because. Also also, it's engrish, so shit like this is expected. Those entities didn't actually have names. Gettemhart isn't Elder, Elder is Elder. Gettemhart is the meat Elder lives inside. Dark Falz Luther actually is Luther.
edit2: For another comparison, I see all of these DF characters like the homunculi in Fullmetal Alchemist. Lust here, Envy there, etc. Those are their given names, even if they're not normal names. They're still their names. I've felt like the DFs were created the exact same way since the beginning - just henchmen made to do the big guy's bidding.

Gardios
May 15, 2014, 09:37 AM
But those are still the names they go by...

Reiketsu
May 15, 2014, 09:46 AM
Being called "Loser" is not natural, but neither is "Elder", "Apprentice", "Double", or "Persona" though.

But in case of 'Elder' for example, he literally calls himself 'Elder'. If you just go by what the characters in the game say and don't pay attention to the written text, they keep saying 'Elder'.

And in Luther's case, they keep saying 'Luther'.
Never once has any character in the game actually called him 'Loser'.

What I was trying to say is that, if anything, you should go by what the characters in the game say. How they pronounce the names, or maybe by how the name is written (I'd put actual speech higher priority-wise, though), not decide how to call a character by a rhetorical device used by the authors.

And if you go by what is actually said in the game, the name has to be 'Luther', not 'Loser'.

Ezodagrom
May 15, 2014, 09:52 AM
The pun is definitely intended, but his name was Luther before with ルーサー and it's still ルーサー after he gets upgraded to DF status. I'm not disputing that ルーサー can be "Loser," but if it wasn't before then it shouldn't be now. The kanji, 敗者, should be though.

As far as I can tell, he's the only DF that isn't some space magic photon consciousness that occupies a host. He's the host, but he's in control too. Gettemhart or whatever his name is is the host for Elder, but Gettemhart isn't actually Elder. Elder was a consciousness they unlocked in the Ruins or something like that. Forgive me, I can only pay so much attention to Naruto levels of anime writing. Same with Apprentice - Afin's sister is the host, but Afin's sister isn't in control.

Luther is actually in control, though. The pun is warranted on at least one level because of that. He's the Dark Falz, and he's the host. It's just a matter of consistency is all.

Any time we'd call DF Elder "DF Colossus," we should call DF Luther "DF Loser." But then, any time we call DF Elder "DF Elder" we should be calling DF Luther "DF Luther."

So in the MPA, on the actual field, where you can target him and see his name in an info box with his wind/light weakness showing? He's Dark Falz Luther. His name above his speech in a speech bubble? Luther. The quest listing? Loser. His name in spoken text? That's iffy. Does the story patch write "Dark Falz [Colossus]" for DF Elder, despite them saying DF Elder out loud? Or do they write "Dark Falz Elder" there? They should just go with what they're already doing.

But, like I said, I don't expect the patch guys to change anything at all. They pretty strongly defend their decisions, and haven't been inclined to budge in the past. They also almost definitely know more about the japanese language than I do, but since these decisions were made before things were really fully known and implemented in the game there's obviously room to want things changed.

edit:


I don't see why these can't be names of photon space magic consciousnesses. I also don't see why these couldn't just be handwaved off as names chosen just because. Also also, it's engrish, so shit like this is expected. Those entities didn't actually have names. Gettemhart isn't Elder, Elder is Elder. Gettemhart is the meat Elder lives inside. Dark Falz Luther actually is Luther.
Elder and Colossus, Persona and Masked Man, Apprentice and ...was it Young Person, what her kanji meant? (and I don't remember what was Double's), it seems to me that the Dark Falzes spoken name and kanji name feel kinda related, at least somewhat vaguely.
If the bolded below is correct (personally I have no idea):

The new Dark Falz's name is a pun. He is called Dark Falz [敗者]. This kanji literally means "failure person" or "one who loses or has lost". Though it could be rendered as [The Defeated] or [Vanquished], it's most common translation is "loser". When this kanji is read in the game, it is pronounced ルーサー. This is how the NPC Luther's name is written, because (spoilers) he is Dark Falz Loser. However, the word "loser" can also be written in katakana as ルーサー (although ルーザー is more common).
"Loser" could still be used as his katakana name, and it relates to the kanji (vanquished, defeated) kinda in a similar way to the other Falzes.
But then again...as you say, Luther is the Dark Falz, it's not a different entity that possessed someone's body, which is why I feel that both Loser and Luther work.

gigawuts
May 15, 2014, 10:00 AM
"Loser" could still be used as his katakana name, and it relates to the kanji kinda in a similar way to the other Falzes.
But then again...as you say, Luther is the Dark Falz, it's not a different entity that possessed someone's body, which is why I feel that both Loser and Luther work.

I sincerely doubt Sega intends to use the exact same spelling for two completely distinct words without so much as one indicator that it's changed meanings. They don't say it anywhere. They don't pronounce it differently. There were cutscenes before he was a DF and he was called ru- sa-, and there are cutscenes now where he is called ru- sa-. This. Is. Simple.

While ルーサー can mean Luther or Loser, in PSO2 ルーサー is either Luther or it is Loser. It is almost definitely not meant to be translated as Luther here and Loser there. That's what 敗者 is for. Where you see 敗者 it means "loser."

A pun, yes. A katakana homonym of two romaji words, possibly (although loser is typically spelled differently). Almost definitely foreshadowing. But not one here and the other there.

His name is Luther. His title is Loser. If you don't call DFE "Dark Falz Colossus" thinking it's his name you shouldn't be calling DFL "Dark Falz Loser" thinking it's his name. You can call him whatever you want, I won't find you IRL and make you stop. Just know the difference.

This is a very simple thing. Everything else works the exact same way. The only change is there's a pun on top of it. Don't make this more complicated than it is, people.

edit:
To further specify
Luther can be called Loser. And Elder can be called Colossus. Both of those are correct, although I'm not sure each DF is limited to one form. We might get DF Elder showing up as DF [Tiny] next year and DF Luther showing up as DF [Winner]. Then what're you gonna do?

GoldenFalcon
May 15, 2014, 10:36 AM
We might get DF Elder showing up as DF [Tiny] next year and DF Luther showing up as DF [Winner]. Then what're you gonna do?

Dark Falz Junior

Dark Falz Sore Loser

BubblyBoar
May 15, 2014, 01:42 PM
Why is this even an issue. Whether I say Loser or Luther, you know what I'm talking about and that's all that should really matter. No one calls Elder the other thing because Elder is less to type, obviously.

Cyron Tanryoku
May 15, 2014, 01:49 PM
the real question is why isn't chroto properly named in the english patch yet

gigawuts
May 15, 2014, 01:52 PM
Why is this even an issue. Whether I say Loser or Luther, you know what I'm talking about and that's all that should really matter. No one calls Elder the other thing because Elder is less to type, obviously.

By that reasoning they should only call it DFE, and you should be using txt spk right now.

Which they do not, and you are not.

They call it Elder because that's A. its name, so people who can read katakana were calling it that before anyone had the EN patch, B. it's in the EN patch as his name and his soul so people just read what they see, and C. it's not dumb as shit, so nobody has a problem saying it.

Loser/Luther came out with none of these. Loser/Luther were used interchangeably before the EN patch was updated since nobody was sure, the EN patch was updated based on information that hadn't been put into context, and B20 players are idiots so they probably saw "loser" and "lolololed so funny xDDDD" their way to victory 30 minute quest failure like usual.

It's not an "issue" that they call it that, since as I've already said they can call it whatever they want. The "issue" is purely semantic, and there's the fact that "Dark Falz Loser" sounds completely asinine and ridiculous as a name. A title, or a form, okay maybe. Not a character's actual name. Gettemhart is ridiculous but "Dark Falz Loser" is a whole new level "what the fuck they cannot possibly be serious."

If the general discussion boards aren't for generally discussing things anymore you should let the guys running PSOW know about it, so they can take appropriate action.

BubblyBoar
May 15, 2014, 01:57 PM
Taking it to the extreme like that is wholly unnecessary. Just saying DFE doesn't mean people will know what you are talking about. They will when you say Elder. Shorthand is very common, but not so much so that what is said is impossible to understand, hence Elder, not DFE, or hell, just E.

Totori
May 15, 2014, 02:07 PM
Or why haven't the english patch taken the area names, at least?

gigawuts
May 15, 2014, 02:12 PM
Taking it to the extreme like that is wholly unnecessary. Just saying DFE doesn't mean people will know what you are talking about. They will when you say Elder. Shorthand is very common, but not so much so that what is said is impossible to understand, hence Elder, not DFE, or hell, just E.

I agree it's unnecessary, but it's a logical extension of the idea. If they like it just because it's shorter, then why not take it further?

They like it for more reasons than the fact that it's shorter. They like it because it's familiar and already in use. There was a similar issue with PP Restraint vs. PP Restorate - the game files say Restraint, but the actual katakana seen ingame says Restorate. It took a while for people to start using the "correct" term, since they'd been seeing Restraint for so long already.

Or why haven't the english patch taken the area names, at least?

I believe they said they liked some of the names, but weren't changing anything just yet. If I had to guess I'd say because it's kind of unnecessary work; what they have now is functional and informative already. I couldn't say for sure without going and finding the post where they talked about it, but I do believe they did comment on it.

Totori
May 15, 2014, 02:21 PM
Oh my, then what about the NPC names, like Cyron said. It's likely the localized western version will have the same names as the SEA version does.

I think that they just need to stop holding out on it and, changed the area's and characters in the next update. People are just gonna end up more confused, if they keep them the way they are.

BubblyBoar
May 15, 2014, 02:24 PM
Because that isn't the logical extension, it's an extreme. It's a fallacy called Appeal to Extremes. It's trying to make a valid point seem ridiculous by taking it to the extreme. That simply does not apply here (or anywhere because it is a fallacy).

btw-Niji
May 15, 2014, 02:27 PM
the real question is why isn't chroto properly named in the english patch yet
The real question is why does AIDA's "team" rely so much on Google's translator/

Yoona
May 15, 2014, 02:29 PM
Calling it now, Superman crossover with Dark Falz Lex Luthor.

AIDA
May 15, 2014, 02:45 PM
The real question is why does AIDA's "team" rely so much on Google's translator/

It's not "my team". I don't do enemy names/area names/mission names, that's on Agrajag/Espio/Mewn. I would never touch that stuff for this reason, because no one is ever happy about it. It's the same reason I don't do translations for the Story Patch, Kion does.

Also, about "Loser", here's what Agrajag said:

The new Dark Falz's name is a pun. He is called Dark Falz [敗者]. This kanji literally means "failure person" or "one who loses or has lost". Though it could be rendered as [The Defeated] or [Vanquished], it's most common translation is "loser". When this kanji is read in the game, it is pronounced ルーサー. This is how the NPC Luther's name is written, because (spoilers) he is Dark Falz Loser. However, the word "loser" can also be written in katakana as ルーサー (although ルーザー is more common).

So, the pun is that Loser and Luther are all but identical when written in katakana or pronounced in Japanese. While the enemy itself is named Dark Falz ルーサー (Luther), we have chosen to call it Dark Falz Loser, so as to preserve the pun. Likewise, the soul is Loser Soul. This is, in our estimation, the only way to preserve the pun in English.

If you have any more questions, feel free to shoot them my way. Have a nice day!

Kantalope
May 15, 2014, 02:46 PM
The real question is why are people still talking about this? The names are a non-issue. Just play the damn game.

btw-Niji
May 15, 2014, 02:47 PM
A) Not my "team".
B) No one uses Google Translator

Also, about "Loser":

The new Dark Falz's name is a pun. He is called Dark Falz [敗者]. This kanji literally means "failure person" or "one who loses or has lost". Though it could be rendered as [The Defeated] or [Vanquished], it's most common translation is "loser". When this kanji is read in the game, it is pronounced ルーサー. This is how the NPC Luther's name is written, because (spoilers) he is Dark Falz Loser. However, the word "loser" can also be written in katakana as ルーサー (although ルーザー is more common).

So, the pun is that Loser and Luther are all but identical when written in katakana or pronounced in Japanese. While the enemy itself is named Dark Falz ルーサー (Luther), we have chosen to call it Dark Falz Loser, so as to preserve the pun. Likewise, the soul is Loser Soul. This is, in our estimation, the only way to preserve the pun in English.

The real question is - When are you going to make some quality posts?
Sorry, but copy/pasting a post from psumods isn't gonna help you win this one son.

gigawuts
May 15, 2014, 02:49 PM
Because that isn't the logical extension, it's an extreme. It's a fallacy called Appeal to Extremes. It's trying to make a valid point seem ridiculous by taking it to the extreme. That simply does not apply here (or anywhere because it is a fallacy).

I'm aware of what the fallacy you're citing is - this isn't that. I regularly see people use "DFE" for shorthand, we're not talking about some anti-gay-marriage "why can't I marry my refrigerator?" bullshit. DFE is a commonly used abbreviation, especially when discussing things at length such as in threads like this.

So, are you actually arguing that they use Elder exclusively because it's shorter than Colossus? Not because it looks less dumb, or because it's on everything, or because it was already in use? Not because you hear it during cutscenes, or because that's the literal and only translation of his actual name? Only because it's shorter?

Please tell me you are so I can laugh at you. Especially since none of those factor into whether Luther should be called Luther or Loser, which is the actual discussion at hand.

isCasted
May 15, 2014, 02:52 PM
The whole phonetically-orphographic discussion on this matter is great, but I'll still call him Loser. Why? Well...

I called him Luther on day 1, I called him Luther on day 2, then people discovered his weakness and from threat he became another punchbag. The chance for this game to provide challenging content was... lost!

gigawuts
May 15, 2014, 02:55 PM
The real question is why are people still talking about this? The names are a non-issue. Just play the damn game.

I have some startling news for you, but

forum
ˈfrəm
noun
1.
a place, meeting, or medium where ideas and views on a particular issue can be exchanged.

Turns out forums exist to be talked on. Fucking weird, right?

And, some more startling news, but there are these two keys called "Alt" and "Tab" that let you swap from one program to another. You can, in fact, maek poast and play gaem at the same time.

Or, if you don't feel like doing one and just want to do the other, you can! Because we live in a time where freedom of choice is a thing.

AIDA
May 15, 2014, 02:56 PM
Sorry, but copy/pasting a post from psumods isn't gonna help you win this one son.


It's not "my team". I don't do enemy names/area names/mission names, that's on Agrajag/Espio/Mewn. I would never touch that stuff for this reason, because no one is ever happy about it. It's the same reason I don't do translations for the Story Patch, Kion does.

Also, about "Loser", here's what Agrajag said:

Sorry, but that's all you'll get out of me. Go yell at Agrajag. I'm going to put you back on ignore now :3 Have a nice day!

Chdata
May 15, 2014, 05:12 PM
I thought everyone called Elder "Falz" until this update... where a lot of people I know still just say Falz and call the other one luther or rooster.

gigawuts
May 15, 2014, 08:44 PM
Also, I've been meaning to say that I will be sincerely surprised if he's not officially translated as either Lucer or Loothar/Lewthar.

LonelyGaruga
May 15, 2014, 09:14 PM
What even is the problem here, exactly? Dark Falz Luther is what the katakana translates to, Loser is one way to translate his title. Pretty obvious, the patch should call him Luther, since Dark Falz Elder is regularly referred to as Elder instead of Colossus. I don't mind the patch pulling a Woolsey here if it's excusable, though, as is the case here, so long as people understand what the katakana means.

And seriously. All the complaints about people calling him Loser...whether it's his name or not, it's still a perfectly valid nickname. I've never seen people complaining about a single other nickname for an enemy before. Don't see a reason for people to complain about this one.

gigawuts
May 15, 2014, 09:42 PM
What even is the problem here, exactly? Dark Falz Luther is what the katakana translates to, Loser is one way to translate his title. Pretty obvious, the patch should call him Luther, since Dark Falz Elder is regularly referred to as Elder instead of Colossus. I don't mind the patch pulling a Woolsey here if it's excusable, though, as is the case here, so long as people understand what the katakana means.

And seriously. All the complaints about people calling him Loser...whether it's his name or not, it's still a perfectly valid nickname. I've never seen people complaining about a single other nickname for an enemy before. Don't see a reason for people to complain about this one.

It's not any more complaints than any other dumb nickname, it's just more people showing up and asking the same stupid questions that were literally answered on the first page already.

But, we don't expect people to read threads around here.