NicoNico Live Broadcast #20

[Sizustar]

Live broadcast link
http://live.nicovideo.jp/watch/lv180151200

Restream

http://www.twitch.tv/fireswordmrm
http://www.justin.tv/gn02771370

New Keyword
つゆたろう

New lobby actions
[SPOILER-BOX]http://i.imgur.com/iZ40wYa.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/vdTRssg.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/0nJEUQL.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/6tvXW45.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/rrWHpJ4.jpg[/SPOILER-BOX]


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xYngesVLpF8"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xYngesVLpF8

PSO2 2nd annivesary new stuff
New outfit, room accessory, weapon.
Crafting gets technique Level 3, and new Guild combine feature
[SPOILER-BOX]http://i.imgur.com/wOMJ0FK.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/dLANi0l.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/iVVGAN8.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/hGh4d6T.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/HtD2RBR.jpg[/SPOILER-BOX]


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=36-oIlcpGhU"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=36-oIlcpGhU

Advanced JA Roll is not getting Nerfed YET.
Shunka Shunran Nerf
Gekka Zakuro Buff
Asagiri Rendan Buff
Sacrifice Bite improved. Lv 16 Power Buff. Using it on Boss-type enemies that can’t be grabbed will apply the effect for 40 seconds.

[SPOILER-BOX]http://i.imgur.com/pzpFFS7.jpg[/SPOILER-BOX]

TD2 and Loser EQ getting tweaked
Mag energy is consumed even while you’re logged out. (Does not apply to mags at max level.)
[Apos Dorios] Different annihilation rates by quest difficulty.
Relaxed Dark Falz Luther’s power on Very Hard.
Adjusted the point requirements and number of uses for the Burst Barrier and Recovery functions in Mining Base Intrusion.
PA and Technics that are known for obscuring the screen will have their particle/animation effects adjusted. (Probably Il Foie and Cosmos Breaker, etc.)
Mr. Bowan will appear on all fields.

[SPOILER-BOX]
http://i.imgur.com/2Dd0S65.png[/SPOILER-BOX]

Ship vs Ship ranking and Ark-Kuma

[SPOILER-BOX]
http://i.imgur.com/Aysk7MH.jpg\
http://i.imgur.com/jQUWgGV.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/BJi636Q.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/yqN5kWc.jpg
[/SPOILER-BOX]


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=71eblhLpDAU"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=71eblhLpDAU

New Collab Shining Blade[SPOILER-BOX]
http://i.imgur.com/eojFClt.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/oB4m8oa.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/6ZRBJYv.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/LC65tnu.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/XFI5fSS.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/JwK8DHX.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/Gut2qPU.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/6f6cPud.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/3Ew57MD.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/tNSUMLD.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/MLw2IlH.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/ejzEkti.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/1XW59AD.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/lyPGdc7.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/etHbtF0.jpg[/SPOILER-BOX]


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=40Qk4Liav4c"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=40Qk4Liav4c

Ark Intercept Sihoulette
Looks like you pilot giant mech to protect the base.
[SPOILER-BOX]http://i.imgur.com/pfZ8Z85.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/7auyLYM.jpg[/SPOILER-BOX]


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nOVdOrVv3HE"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nOVdOrVv3HE

[ShadowDragon28]

wheres the Mirror Feed?

[FireswordRus]

http://www.twitch.tv/fireswordmrm

[Sizustar]

wheres the Mirror Feed?

http://www.justin.tv/gn02771370

[Sizustar]

http://i.imgur.com/EimpWY7.jpg

Today's event, Rain 2, DF loser lost but it was a close vote

[Sizustar]

New Keyword
しずたろう

New lobby actions
[SPOILER-BOX]http://i.imgur.com/iZ40wYa.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/vdTRssg.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/0nJEUQL.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/6tvXW45.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/rrWHpJ4.jpg[/SPOILER-BOX]

[Vintasticvin]

Thanks Sizu I'll grab my freebie after maint :3

[Sizustar]

Ichitaro fanservice
http://i.imgur.com/rMrX59x.jpg

[Sizustar]

PSO2 2nd annivesary new stuff
New outfit, room accessory, weapon.
Crafting gets technique Level 3, and new Guild combine feature
http://i.imgur.com/wOMJ0FK.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/dLANi0l.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/iVVGAN8.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/hGh4d6T.jpg

[Aine]

adding in the congratulations screen in elder is the worst thing ever

jesus christ

[Niagara]

Lol, Shunka and SRoll nerf.

[Venkas]

Lol, Shunka and SRoll nerf.

Long time coming. Prepare yourselves.

[Niagara]

Playing force, so I don't mind. Apparently coming June 11th.

[Unnamed Player]

Lol, Shunka and SRoll nerf.
Gunner will be pretty much useless
[SPOILER-BOX]Ra>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Gu[/SPOILER-BOX]

[oratank]

new mascot akuma ark-kuma
sega sure love pun

[Gardios]

Gah, I don't even have all recipe 2s unlocked...

[starwhisper]

lol they can't be serious :x
After what they did to forces and with the coming of lv3 techs I dont think it is needed...

[infiniteeverlasting]

People always say the next update is gonna be a nerf, and every time they're wrong. I won't believe it unless it is clearly stated they they are definitely nerfing it with a specific date that they are going to do it. No maybes/mights.

[Niagara]

People always say the next update is gonna be a nerf, and every time they're wrong. I won't believe it unless it is clearly stated they they are definitely nerfing it with a specific date that they are going to do it. No maybes/mights.


Saw it in one of their slides.

They're also buffing other katanas PAs. And something about lvl 16 Sword PAs.

[Sizustar]

Braver PA getting tweaked with Hunter getting buff
[SPOILER-BOX]http://i.imgur.com/pzpFFS7.jpg[/SPOILER-BOX]

TD2 and Loser EQ getting tweaked[SPOILER-BOX]
http://i.imgur.com/2Dd0S65.png[/SPOILER-BOX]

Ship vs Ship ranking and Rappy racing[SPOILER-BOX]
http://i.imgur.com/Aysk7MH.jpg\
http://i.imgur.com/jQUWgGV.jpg[/SPOILER-BOX]

New Collab Shining Blade[SPOILER-BOX]
http://i.imgur.com/eojFClt.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/oB4m8oa.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/6ZRBJYv.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/LC65tnu.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/XFI5fSS.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/JwK8DHX.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/Gut2qPU.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/6f6cPud.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/3Ew57MD.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/tNSUMLD.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/MLw2IlH.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/ejzEkti.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/1XW59AD.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/etHbtF0.jpg[/SPOILER-BOX]

[infiniteeverlasting]

Saw it in one of their slides.

They're also buffing other katanas PAs. And something about lvl 16 Sword PAs.

A slide from this live update? Or from something you saw last trailer/whatever these are called. Because they already buffed hunter PAs and half of their trailers are full of maybes/mights.

[Sizustar]

A slide from this live update? Or from something you saw last trailer/whatever these are called. Because they already buffed hunter PAs and half of their trailers are full of maybes/mights.

http://i.imgur.com/pzpFFS7.jpg

Weakening 1 PA, strengthing 2

[Ezodagrom]

A slide from this live update? Or from something you saw last trailer/whatever these are called. Because they already buffed hunter PAs and half of their trailers are full of maybes/mights.
A slide from this livestream.

[XrosBlader821]

It's nice to see Forces and Techers getting more and more love with crafting but whats with the other Classes?
"Lol, Equipment extending is bullshit so instead of making it actually usefull we gonna let you fix your stuff"


adding in the congratulations screen in elder is the worst thing ever

jesus christ

I actually like this screen :/

[Xaeris]

Well, that's that. End of an era. We had a good run, gunners. Eh, it depends how much they're adjusting it. If they're just shaving a little off the top of S-Roll JA, it's no big deal. If they're really gutting it...well, I can always go back to Ranger.

[infiniteeverlasting]

Well, that's that. End of an era. We had a good run, gunners. Eh, it depends how much they're adjusting it. If they're just shaving a little off the top of S-Roll JA, it's no big deal. If they're really gutting it...well, I can always go back to Ranger.

There goes my gunner gear I was working on, it's all going into the shit hole now. I have no interest in playing slow unexciting classes like force. Not interested in spamming shunka hands. Not interested in playing a class where you spend half of your time staying far away from your enemies and charging shunka hands at no risk of getting hit. There is no sense of excitement as activating katana combat/srolling right before an enemy's attack and then totally trashing them after dodging/countering. Force has none of this fast paced skill oriented combat I want.

[Maninbluejumpsuit]

Shunka nerf isn't even necessary anymore...

Though I did come up with an idea to make kazan not suck.


There goes my gunner gear I was working on, it's all going into the shit hole now. I have no interest in playing slow unexciting classes like force. Not interested in spamming shunka hands. Not interested in playing a class where you spend half of your time staying far away from your enemies and charging shunka hands at no risk of getting hit.

Heh. Shunka hands.

[Rien]

Actually the old playstyle for katanas vs bosses was counter > gekka zakuro > kanran/sakura

They're trying to bring it back which is a shit idea since hatou will simply take over if shunka gets nerfed

[Gardios]

Rappy racing[SPOILER-BOX]
http://i.imgur.com/jQUWgGV.jpg[/SPOILER-BOX]

Oh. My. God.

[XrosBlader821]

I wonder how rappy racing will work.
Do you get a pet rappy that you have to train or is it pure RNG?

[BlueCast Boy]

Sword only gets the buff yet WL and Partizan not, c'mon i wanna see partizan and WL buff too other than HU buff look at Fi especially Double Saber not everything is all Deadly Archers DS needs a balance treatment.

[SisterPrincess]

Uh, I don't see any GU nerfs in 6/11 update. It merely says they will let it go this time.

[Sizustar]

I wonder how rappy racing will work.
Do you get a pet rappy that you have to train or is it pure RNG?

RNG

http://i.imgur.com/BJi636Q.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/yqN5kWc.jpg

[infiniteeverlasting]

Uh, I don't see any GU nerfs in 6/11 update. It merely says they will let it go this time.

Thanks god... But seriously, people always overhype this stuff and it usually doesn't turn out to be such a big deal.

[Aine]

The rappy race is just a visualization of the inter-ship rankings (each ship gets paired up with another).

[Xaeris]

Oh, okay, good, I can stop shopping for new rifles and launchers then.

[HIT0SHI]

Glad the nerf is coming soon, to much katana over kill everywhere.

Also nice to see we are FINALLY getting a Valkyria chronicles costume and Space Channel 5 costume with her weapon camo being a plus... except for ANOTHER bikini in which we have to many of those. >_>
But whats with the male costumes? I know Yakuza and the other one are big in japan and what not but they look like generic costumes we get on random AC scratches.

And of course once again SEGA didn't bring any CAST parts both male and female for the SEGA collaboration, I bet there are just gonna give some lazy ass CV parts... they could have made parts for Virtual-On, Vectorman or something.
As for the human male costumes they could have picked something more iconic like Space Harrier with maybe even a Launcher camo, House of the Dead 1 Jame's costume, Shinobi, male version of Valkyria chronicles, Alex Kidd, Streets of Rage you know ANYTHING but some casual clothes you see all the time on all AC scratches. :argh:

[XrosBlader821]

Sword only gets the buff yet WL and Partizan not, c'mon i wanna see partizan and WL buff too other than HU buff look at Fi especially Double Saber not everything is all Deadly Archers DS needs a balance treatment.

maybe they are planning to do these buffs in tiny pieces like they do with realeasing new techs and PA's

[Alukard]

I'll gladly take the nerf since it will most likely result in cheaper yashas.

[Sizustar]

Glad the nerf is coming soon, to much katana over kill everywhere.

Also nice to see we are FINALLY getting a Valkyria chronicles costume and Space Channel 5 costume with her weapon camo being a plus... except for ANOTHER bikini in which we have to many of those. >_>
But whats with the male costumes? I know Yakuza and the other one are big in japan and what not but they look like generic costumes we get on random AC scratches.

And of course once again SEGA didn't bring any CAST parts both male and female for the SEGA collaboration, I bet there are just gonna give some lazy ass CV parts... they could have made parts for Virtual-On, Vectorman or something.
As for the human male costumes they could have picked something more iconic like Space Harrier with maybe even a Launcher camo, House of the Dead 1 Jame's costume, Shinobi, male version of Valkyria chronicles, Alex Kidd, Streets of Rage you know ANYTHING but some casual clothes you see all the time on all AC scratches. :argh:

The Yakuza serie is iconic, first game came out in 2005 with 9 games and 2 movie, it's one of Sega's flagship serie.

[infiniteeverlasting]

I'll gladly take the nerf since it will most likely result in cheaper yashas.

If I was premium, I'd feel the same, unfortunately this is not the case.

[Alukard]

If I was premium, I'd feel the same, unfortunately this is not the case.

If you don't want to waste a bunch of money then save up meseta and go premium for a single month. It's seriously not worth wasting your time on low drop rates.

[Aine]

Uh, I don't see any GU nerfs in 6/11 update. It merely says they will let it go this time.

IIRC they said they won't nerf it this update, but it will definitely be nerfed sometime in the future.

[HIT0SHI]

The Yakuza serie is iconic, first game came out in 2005 with 9 games and 2 movie, it's one of Sega's flagship serie.

Yeah, but it's just some really casual clothing that you expect to see on random AC scratches with another Kimono in which we have like 4 different versions of. As for the bikini that would like the 7th one...
With what it represents I can understand the point of it but it's just generic clothing. :-?

[Chdata]

So.. are there translations for what any of those spoilerbox in OP says?

E.g., does it just say "We're changing TD2 and Luther" or does it mention what the change will be.

[SakuRei]

Aaaaaand I'm getting banned at both livestream links and chat doesn't load at mine and I don't know why... (<~< )

[Sanguine2009]

so sega is still refusing to even attempt to buff techer? bleh.

[Arksenth]

so sega is still refusing to even attempt to buff techer? bleh.

Buff to Techer = make more gameplay modes with massive swarms of zondeelable mobs that are tanky enough to withstand multiple Shunkas.

Of course the FPS drop from several hundred overlapping explosions at once would drop everyone in the MPA all at once but it would be so worth it.

[Sizustar]

New Keyword
つゆたろう

New lobby actions with Keyword
[SPOILER-BOX]http://i.imgur.com/iZ40wYa.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/vdTRssg.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/0nJEUQL.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/6tvXW45.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/rrWHpJ4.jpg[/SPOILER-BOX]

[oratank]

what the is last one robot ride td?

[Kilich]

By my Christian Orthodox and Pagan God, that was awesome.

[Sizustar]

what the is last one robot ride td?

Ark Intercept Sihoulette
Looks like you pilot giant mech to protect the base.
http://i.imgur.com/pfZ8Z85.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/7auyLYM.jpg

[gigawuts]

Cool, finally.

Sega has a habit of going "Ooh, this class is 50% stronger than that class? Okay, we'll boost that class by 80% and nerf this class by 40%. See? Now they're balanced!"

I'm not at all surprised now that braver isn't the end-all-be-all anymore, which was always the real issue, that only now are they doing something about shunka. Shunka just needed to cost more PP for each extra slash, that's all. Sega is slow as all godawful fuck.

Now they need to make ilmegid disappear after the third time it deals damage, instead of traveling through 9 trillion enemies just to hit the one you're targeting, and things will be a bit better off. That would be just fine as a solution. Therefor, we'll get a 40% damage nerf in november.

[XrosBlader821]

Fo/Te already outdamage every other class there is.
Buffing Te would also buff Fo even though they could make more of the main class specific skills.

[HIT0SHI]

Ark Intercept Sihoulette
Looks like you pilot giant mech to protect the base.
[SPOILER-BOX]http://i.imgur.com/pfZ8Z85.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/7auyLYM.jpg[/SPOILER-BOX]
Oh hell yes
[SPOILER-BOX]http://static.fjcdn.com/pictures/Shit+just+got+real_5bae7c_3946679.jpg[/SPOILER-BOX]

[Rehal]

There goes my gunner gear I was working on, it's all going into the shit hole now. I have no interest in playing slow unexciting classes like force. Not interested in spamming shunka hands. Not interested in playing a class where you spend half of your time staying far away from your enemies and charging shunka hands at no risk of getting hit. There is no sense of excitement as activating katana combat/srolling right before an enemy's attack and then totally trashing them after dodging/countering. Force has none of this fast paced skill oriented combat I want.

http://puu.sh/93p35.jpg

you play gu? . _.

[landman]

I could see a balanced PVP with those mechs lol

[ShadowDragon28]

BATTLE MECHS!!!! WE'RE GETTING BATTLE MECHS for Minining Defense 3 EQ! omg! nerdgasm.

[Mysterious-G]

Most boring broadcast ever. 3 hours of almost nothing substantial. The mechas are nice, but still just another mechanic added to old content (TD1, TD2). They could have shown us a teaser of TD3 at least. For you guys thinking that was it, look again: That's the TD1 map. It's likely they're just adding mechas that you can access via crystal points to the old TDs and TD3 alike. So yeah, we got a glimpse at a new mechanic being introduced for TD with the TD3 update, but not of TD3 itself. Disappointed. :disapprove:

[ShadowDragon28]

whatever, whatever

Rappy RACES to win rappy stars to trade for goodies like Triboosters, Lot's more rebalancing stuff, new item design contest, and Battle Mechs for Mining Base Defense EQ's, a awesome Shining Blade Collaberation is coming soon, It was all pretty cool IMO

[Sanguine2009]

Fo/Te already outdamage every other class there is.
Buffing Te would also buff Fo even though they could make more of the main class specific skills.

there are any number of ways to fix techer without affecting force or resorting to main only skills sega is just to lazy to even attempt it.

[Tankotron]

Most boring broadcast ever. 3 hours of almost nothing substantial. The mechas are nice, but still just another mechanic added to old content (TD1, TD2). They could have shown us a teaser of TD3 at least. For you guys thinking that was it, look again: That's the TD1 map. It's likely they're just adding mechas that you can access via crystal points to the old TDs and TD3 alike. So yeah, we got a glimpse at a new mechanic being introduced for TD with the TD3 update, but not of TD3 itself. Disappointed. :disapprove:

No that's obviously not TD1. Blue and purple towers are right next to each other with a green tower further in the back with another tower next to that one. Not to mention the dozens of weapon spawn pads around.

[Sizustar]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nOVdOrVv3HE"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nOVdOrVv3HE

[Aine]

sega can't balance shit so they're just making class irrelevant by putting everyone in a mech

[Mysterious-G]

No that's obviously not TD1. Blue and purple towers are right next to each other with a green tower further in the back with another tower next to that one. Not to mention the dozens of weapon spawn pads around.

Seeing the trailer again (Thanks, Sizu) you are right. The tower placement seems different from TD1's map. Then I'll happily admit I was too quick to make assumptions, although I'll say the map looks kind of bland at least going by the little appetizer we got here.

[oratank]

sega can't balance shit so they're just making class irrelevant by putting everyone in a mech

mech pvp is the best

[HIT0SHI]

[SPOILER-BOX]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nOVdOrVv3HE (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nOVdOrVv3HE)[/SPOILER-BOX]

http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii211/Muul-Eki/Misc/hmmyesperfect.png

[Enforcer MKV]

Well, there are guns on that mech. So long as I can use those often instead of the sword, this'll rock.

[gigawuts]

Two things.

1: Long before the game launched, they had said that one of the racial differences would be meatbags had a jump and casts had a hover. That was eventually scrapped and almost everyone forgot all about it. Looks like that's where it's going.
2: What's the deal with the single red one? Is it a different kind, a stronger kind, one you unlock with more points, what? Or maybe we can customize our mech colors.

[Shinamori]

I hope they don't require much points or TD3 really will be, despair.

[Sanguine2009]

i hope we get pilot suit costumes to go with those mechs(though zelsius is a good stand in)

[Aine]

the map is large and judging by the trailer the AIS has an entrance movie so I'm guessing everyone starts in one

otherwise TD3 will end up with rangers being forced to go on foot while everyone else is flying around in mechs

[Angry_Ryudo]

i hope we get pilot suit costumes to go with those mechs(though zelsius is a good stand in)

Zelsius w/o external armor. And HUcaseal set for caseals! :D

[WildarmsRE5]

yiiiiiisssssss, we get Armored Core/Mecha/Gundam/Nightmares/whatever you prefer. (I prefer Armored Cores but they look like Mechas from Border break doe) live in action, I've never been so happy about being in the JP version again.

[Maninbluejumpsuit]

the map is large and judging by the trailer the AIS has an entrance movie so I'm guessing everyone starts in one

otherwise TD3 will end up with rangers being forced to go on foot while everyone else is flying around in mechs

Yeah.

It would feel a little cheap to just start in a mech, and be in a mech all game though. No sense of 'you have to work for it', or 'I can only have my mech out for XX minutes. Need to make it count.'

[gigawuts]

Zelsius w/o external armor. And HUcaseal set for caseals! :D

Don't forget the HUcast parts for casts :pine:

[Yden]

I hope there will be some sort of customization for the mechs.

[Hexxy]

Does the nerf/buff image say exactly what they're doing? Didn't see a translation in the thread other than "shunka nerf, sroll nerf, sword buff".

[Rien]

Two things.

1: Long before the game launched, they had said that one of the racial differences would be meatbags had a jump and casts had a hover. That was eventually scrapped and almost everyone forgot all about it. Looks like that's where it's going.
2: What's the deal with the single red one? Is it a different kind, a stronger kind, one you unlock with more points, what? Or maybe we can customize our mech colors.

Come on, everyone knows the red one is three times faster.

also @ above: They're not nerfing Sroll. They're nerfing Shunka, buffing the damage of Asagiri Rendan and Gekka Zakuro while changing the pp cost of Gekka Zakuro to 20 pp.

They're also making it so that you can get 40s sacrifice bite buff when you whack boss mobs with it.

[oratank]

Yeah.

It would feel a little cheap to just start in a mech, and be in a mech all game though. No sense of 'you have to work for it', or 'I can only have my mech out for XX minutes. Need to make it count.'

how about u buy them with ac in every eq

[Sanguine2009]

Yeah.

It would feel a little cheap to just start in a mech, and be in a mech all game though. No sense of 'you have to work for it', or 'I can only have my mech out for XX minutes. Need to make it count.'

i dunno, if you ask me i would be incredibly disappointing if its too limited. i mean its already gonna be limited to a EQ, the least they can do its let us go crazy with it. maybe make it so you start in the mech but have to go on foot if its destroyed? would encourage playing smart and making the use of the mech tied to player skill rather than an arbitrary limit

[Unnamed Player]

Does the nerf/buff image say exactly what they're doing? Didn't see a translation in the thread other than "shunka nerf, sroll nerf, sword buff".
http://b66.imgup.net/d7ff3.jpg
SRoll power nerf

[Sizustar]

http://b66.imgup.net/d7ff3.jpg
SRoll power nerf

Not this time, but in the future

[Sanguine2009]

even if it gets nerfed its not nearly as big a deal as people are making. gunner is in a much better place even without it than it was before it got it so i seriously doubt gu will stop being a commonly used class

[XrosBlader821]

how about u buy them with ac in every eq

sounds like pay to win to me.
Noone likes P2W

[Punisher106]

Only thing that interests me is the mechs.

Watch, They'll make it so Shunka only does 100 damage per swing, and will fuck Bravers royally, and we all go back to spamming Sakura-Endo. While they're at it, they'll secretly nerf Final Nemesis and Master Shot so they're shitty, too.

[strikerhunter]

Updates seems okay, I don't mind the nerfs.

But those mechas O_oo_O
Those Mechas and drop cutscene reminds me of Titanfall.

[gigawuts]

They're also making it so that you can get 40s sacrifice bite buff when you whack boss mobs with it.

Oh hey cool! The one thing you actually want a long-lasting buff on, the one thing that won't die in the middle of sacrifice bite 90% of the time, the one thing that is impossible to get the max buff on is finally being fixed!

How did this not release like this in the first place? Come on Sega. Even 10 minutes of testing (5 to get to area 3) would have made you realize this was necessary from the get.

[Niagara]

Am I the only one who...well...doesn't like those mechs ?

[Kilich]

Am I the only one who...well...doesn't like those mechs ?
So far, yes.

[Xaelouse]

Oh hey more buffs to lvl16 PAs only
and one from SHAQ at that
fuck off with this sega, seriously

[Sanguine2009]

Only thing that interests me is the mechs.

Watch, They'll make it so Shunka only does 100 damage per swing, and will fuck Bravers royally, and we all go back to spamming Sakura-Endo. While they're at it, they'll secretly nerf Final Nemesis and Master Shot so they're shitty, too.

even if braver lost shunka dunka entirely you still have hatou for bosses/large enemys and kanran for mobs. not to mention combat escape and katana finish. (good)bravers will be fine

[infiniteeverlasting]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nOVdOrVv3HE (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nOVdOrVv3HE)

No fucking way... Sega is actually making new content.
Something that is actually new....

[oratank]

No fucking way... Sega is actually making new content.
Something that is actually new....

maybe this was an old cast concept

[Yden]

No fucking way... Sega is actually making new content.
Something that is actually new....

I think it uses the Cougar NX as a base so it's not entirely new.

[Vampy]

I don't mind cougar to me felt the most interesting boss annoying yes but interesting nonetheless.

[Rien]

Am I the only one who...well...doesn't like those mechs ?

you have to farm crystals for them so it will be ok

[Vampy]

Better not be a large amount or it will kill the purpose of adding them.

[Ephidiel]

Poor Ship 1 draw the short straw in the Arks Ship Tournament being paired with Ship 2

[Vampy]

Poor ship 1? Don't you mean poor ship 2? Ship 2 does not stand a chance

[Ephidiel]

well but Ship 1 suffers more by being paired with Ship 2

[Sanguine2009]

other than the obvious b20 trash i have a hard time believing the rest of the ship is that much worse than the others

[strikerhunter]

other than the obvious b20 trash i have a hard time believing the rest of the ship is that much worse than the others

The b20 trash, yea. The JPs that appears during prime time, no.

[Enforcer MKV]

Just more pessimism. We have no way to know how this will turn out until...we actually get to that point and see it first-hand. We can only assume. Crying about either end of the spectrum is pointless.

*Continues thumbing through the newspaper*

[Vampy]

If we considered players from summer 2013 I'd agree with you there but from then to now I feel quality players have been seriously lacking.

[Sanguine2009]

well couldn't the rest of the ship just work harder to make up for the b20 trash? i mean if we put forth the effort we cant be at that much of a disadvantage, right?

[Punisher106]

even if braver lost shunka dunka entirely you still have hatou for bosses/large enemys and kanran for mobs. not to mention combat escape and katana finish. (good)bravers will be fine

IMo, I got a high leveled kanran, and that only does 1k damage total, for me, at full power. Hatou does about the same damage, too. Wonder what they'll do with Asagiri.

[Maninbluejumpsuit]

IMo, I got a high leveled kanran, and that only does 1k damage total, for me, at full power. Hatou does about the same damage, too. Wonder what they'll do with Asagiri.

I get 6Ks per kanran. Are you not BR/HU to hit that low?

[Macman]

other than the obvious b20 trash i have a hard time believing the rest of the ship is that much worse than the others

A lot of ships were "busy" for the huge boost Rain 2 this morning.
Ship 2? Still normal.

During Loser-fest I would sometimes see ships being completely full.
Ship 2? Normal, busy at best.

And how about those Loser defeat ratings?
Ship 2 dead last every time.

[Vampy]

Who knows the issue is if it's a weekly ranking where everything the ship does comes in to play JP primetime might not be enough to say we are serious competition. I'm not saying ship 2 is terrible but compared to last year I have more chances of running in to bad groups than good groups compared to last summer.

[Maninbluejumpsuit]

A lot of ships were "busy" for the huge boost Rain 2 this morning.
Ship 2? Still normal.

During Loser-fest I would sometimes see ships being completely full.
Ship 2? Normal, busy at best.

And how about those Loser defeat ratings?
Ship 2 dead last every time.

Yeah, ever since TD came out (or most likely before it. It's just especially noticeable with TD being the most popular thing for the community to do as a whole to not notice most other ships that isnt ship2 being 'busy') it was a pretty clear indication that a large group of native players most likely migrated off of ship2. Not hard to imagine why they might have done so.

[Vampy]

I haven't seen ship 2 busy in more than 6 or 7 months.

[Punisher106]

I get 6Ks per kanran. Are you not BR/HU to hit that low?

I'm 65/47-ish, and I believe my Kanran is about level 14. I have a +10 Dio Lacurico.

[Vampy]

You might be hitting from too close I get 5.5k-10k

[Maninbluejumpsuit]

You might be hitting from too close I get 5.5k-10k

Talking about kanran. Not hatou.

1k total from a kanran is still absurdly low. Your stances would have to not be on, though even then it should still deal more damage total per enemy.

[Sanguine2009]

yeah sounds to me like there is something horribly wrong with ya tree

[Vampy]

Oh didn't read my bad. I feel I feel I hit way too low there myself not entirely sure why I hit like 2.5k at max at 65 65 might be my mag possibly? What types of mags do you guys use?

[Shinamori]

I get like 2.5k with kanran, Probably because my gear sucks.

[pkemr4]

im running zeshuu +75 Atk affix and Gloam/white tail 60atk/7pp affix and im hitting 3.2k vs body on darkers and 2.8k vs non darker bodys

[XrosBlader821]

Doing Luther on VH in Ship 02 is a waste of time.
Even if you have a Ra/Hu or a Gu/Ra the probability that this player has/is going to use Weak bullet is still rather small. Not to mention these player often don't even know where and when to shoot the WB...
They made Luther easier now on VH but damn...

[Vampy]

Hmm curious how the guild/team combine feature works.

[IndigoNovember]

Uzi and blue Susanoguren weapon camos, eh? Nice that we finally got a katana weapon camo that is a katana.

[Maninbluejumpsuit]

Susanoguren weapon camos, eh? Nice that we finally got a katana weapon camo that is a katana.

... where?

Where?!

WHERE?!

[Shinamori]

Indeed. What camos you speak of.

[Lyrise]

... where?

Where?!

WHERE?!

I believe what's being referenced here is the Reitou Yukihime, which is that blue nodachi camo for sword and katana, part of the Shining Blade collab.

[Skyly]

IMO I think SRoll nerf won't be dramatically huge. Gu/Hu FTW.. Why keep prolonging the nerf?

[Sp-24]

Really hate the idea of the S-Roll Advance nerf, since this probably means that the skill itself is staying. So, you'll still need to do S-Roll before any and every action to be able to deal any damage, it's just the damage itself that gets nerfed.

[infiniteeverlasting]

Really hate the idea of the S-Roll Advance nerf, since this probably means that the skill itself is staying. So, you'll still need to do S-Roll before any and every action to be able to deal any damage, it's just the damage itself that gets nerfed.

Exactly, you see it's not like what they're doing to braver, they nerf shunka to buff other PAs, therefore adding variety. Here they're just crippling gunner and that's it.

[Sanguine2009]

gunner will be fine though even if they completely removed s roll it would not be crippled

[Dia79]

The buff/nerf pic says they are still waiting to see about Gunner S-Roll

[Gardios]

Shh, don't interrupt the "Gunner is doomed" circlejerk.

[Sanguine2009]

gunners issue was not multipliers though, it was PAs and that issue is solved. it no longer needs s roll to compensate

[infiniteeverlasting]

The buff/nerf pic says they are still waiting to see about Gunner S-Roll

Shunka is definite tho right? Because they did mention buffing asigiri rendan etc.

[Enforcer MKV]

Shunka is definite tho right? Because they did mention buffing asigiri rendan etc.

I'm fairly certain they're going through with the Shunka nerf.

Think it's part of the update on the 11th?

[Sanguine2009]

god i hope so, i cant wait for the delicious braver tears

[Alukard]

Exactly, you see it's not like what they're doing to braver, they nerf shunka to buff other PAs, therefore adding variety. Here they're just crippling gunner and that's it.

You are pretending as if asaagiri or gekka would be able to replace shunka. Even if they nerf shunka, let's say 50% ( doubt it's actually going to be that high), it's still going to outshine those pa's in the situations shunka is being used. I hope the asagiri buff is less pp consumption, anything else wouldn't be worth mentioning.

[Z-0]

Kneejerk nerfs are stupid because all they do is ruin investments and fuck up the metagame that's already been established.

I don't care how "moral" or "correct" nerfs are, all they succeed in doing is wasting someone's valuable time.

[Sanguine2009]

i hope they gut shunka so the people who bandwagoned onto braver because it was the easy mode class ended up wasting tons of meseta

[Alukard]

Kneejerk nerfs are stupid because all they do is ruin investments and fuck up the metagame that's already been established.

I don't care how "moral" or "correct" nerfs are, all they succeed in doing is wasting someone's valuable time.

+1

@sanguw/e: You've already displayed your profound knowledge. Stop the hate already.

[HIT0SHI]

So far it has been this:
http://i.imgur.com/F0b9zjh.jpg

Let's see now whose is to gargle on Braver's tears.
inb4 Force Il megid

[Vampy]

Honestly with how sega is handling things I feel the nerf won't be too bad or they might just scrap it all together I do feel they should also fix trees with that balancing team they were talking about make it so people can specialize in what they want and not be punished for it. If they can do that even if in short bursts I feel they will make the game far more user friendly not that isn't that already but people can have actual unique playstyles and not feel inferior to others.

[infiniteeverlasting]

I'm fairly certain they're going through with the Shunka nerf.

Think it's part of the update on the 11th?

Ah ok, so that's set in stone.
Were not crippled tho at least, they're buffing othe PAs so the braver tears that the person above wants so badly probably won't exist ^^;

B20 should not be stapled to the badass frontline class braver and giving ilmegid to Force just totally ruined the game again. Force should just go back to being the housewife mistress class it is and start cooking zondeel for us after a long days work.

[Sanguine2009]

naw i really do think braver will be fine even with the nerf though, the only people crying about it will be the people who only know how to shunka

[Vampy]

Ah ok, so that's set in stone.
Were not crippled tho at least, they're buffing othe PAs so the braver tears that the person above wants so badly probably won't exist ^^;

B20 should not be stapled to the badass frontline class braver and giving ilmegid to Force just totally ruined the game again. Force should just go back to being the housewife mistress class it is and start cooking zondeel for us after a long days work.

Zondeel is great but to a degree I feel it should be removed I hate being forced to use it because it is the "right" thing to do. I use it a lot but I use other techs to compliment it ilmegid when things out of reach or want to trash a large group I feel other techs should be buffed a bit in the dark line for single target not just namegid I know the techs are decent but outside of namegid there is nothing worth using on bosses so usually it's zondeel ilmegid namegid. I feel techs need more variety especially with techs that hit multiple targets as far as I remember there are two that do that naturally not just because enemies walked in to it.

[RadiantLegend]

There is the manly sword option for Hu/Br's so I'm not that concerned, the fact that hatou is still there for bosses and katana combat. I'm not going back to sakura endo spamming.

[LonelyGaruga]

Force should just go back to being the housewife mistress class it is and start cooking zondeel for us after a long days work.

Whether this is a joke or not, it's both unamusing and outright annoying to see that virtually every post you make is either fanboying over Braver or demeaning other classes. Would you please knock that off? There are more useful things to be saying while discussing classes.

[Shinamori]

I'm enjyoing Fo/Te over Br/Hu now-a-days.

[Vampy]

Whether this is a joke or not, it's both unamusing and outright annoying to see that virtually every post you make is either fanboying over Braver or demeaning other classes. Would you please knock that off? There are more useful things to be saying while discussing classes.

Just ignore him he's probably a bit ignorant.

Also no not trying to be insulting but I feel ignorance goes both ways with players that feel should only be blowing stuff up without supporting other players. And those that feel certain classes should only be relegated to just support and provide no offensive.

[Macman]

Ah ok, so that's set in stone.
Force should just go back to being the housewife mistress class it is and start cooking zondeel for us after a long days work.
Nope, too busy murdering everything with dark gropey hands before your sexist ass can blindly shunka your way over to the mobs. :wacko:

[gigawuts]

He thinks force is a strictly long-distance class.

Leave him alone.

[XrosBlader821]

Well seeing how the latest Fighter "buff" ended up I am really concerned that Bravers have nothing to worry about. But I still won't mind reading about people crying about the nerf >:D

[Ephidiel]

since the Nerf is unspecified
maybe they just up the PP cost
anyway i wouldnt be to worried about it

[Waraiwarai]

Zondeel is great but to a degree I feel it should be removed I hate being forced to use it because it is the "right" thing to do. I use it a lot but I use other techs to compliment it ilmegid when things out of reach or want to trash a large group I feel other techs should be buffed a bit in the dark line for single target not just namegid I know the techs are decent but outside of namegid there is nothing worth using on bosses so usually it's zondeel ilmegid namegid. I feel techs need more variety especially with techs that hit multiple targets as far as I remember there are two that do that naturally not just because enemies walked in to it.

Pls use your brain some more

[Vampy]

Pls use your brain some more

Please be more specic and tell me what you felt I said was wrong or was missing. If not you sound like an ass.

[Waraiwarai]

There are Barta techs , there are foie techs and ther are more than Zondeel as zonde techs. Of course there is no variety when all you do is build around dark techs

[Maninbluejumpsuit]

There are Barta techs , there are foie techs and ther are more than Zondeel as zonde techs. Of course there is no variety when all you do is build around dark techs

Tis the box people trap themselves in.

I half expected to see people running around with ice elysions to accompany their weddle parks, and seimei kikamis when I came back.

Shoulda've known better.

[Macman]

Unfortunately the most effective builds are specialized builds. So you're either running all dark techs, or all fire techs, or all wind techs Sazan.
The closest thing you get to a variety build is maxing Element Weak Hit on techer and all the JA/Charge advance on Force, but that just means you're mediocre at everything instead of good at anything.

[Vampy]

No I know there is variety but usually most of the effective techs are effective at just hitting a single targets. I never said techs were limited in options but every option leads to the same result one really strong tech that usually hits in one direction or hits a singular targets. There is gibarta rabarta and other techs I know that. Just I feel that there should be more like ilmegid that can hit multiple targets at will for substantial damage. Ilmegid needs a nerf yes I think that that most can agree on this but I feel there should be more options than just that for the type of force I want to be. I don't want to be locked to just the dark tree so I can get the most out of the playstyle I want.

[Maninbluejumpsuit]

Unfortunately the most effective builds are specialized builds. So you're either running all dark techs, or all fire techs, or all wind techs.
The closest thing you get to a variety build is maxing Element Weak Hit on techer and all the JA/Charge advance on Force, but that just means you're mediocre at everything instead of good at anything.

Well this is mainly SEGA's fault.

They don't want one tech element to be best for everything as we've seen from zonde, and yet:

Skill trees aren't free.

Skill resets aren't free.

Can't blame the players for doing it...



Most variety you can have while still being specialized in dark is pick a FO element (fire, ice, lightning).

[gigawuts]

Sega should give us tech tier damage bonuses.

Simple, gi, ra, na, sa, and il techs would each get a damage bonus from their respective skills.

Force would get simple, gi, and ra. Techer would get na, sa, il, and support.

Pooling into those instead of an element would give you good performance at multiple ranges and against multiple enemies, but not as much as maxing an element for that specific area.

[infiniteeverlasting]

Whether this is a joke or not, it's both unamusing and outright annoying to see that virtually every post you make is either fanboying over Braver or demeaning other classes. Would you please knock that off? There are more useful things to be saying while discussing classes.

woh here. i didn't start it, its all the braver haters, you see playing braver automatically makes you a fanboy. howabout the force lovers who just want to see shunka tears?
please, i only react this way when i see disgusting posts about b20 = braver. how would you feel if your class was diminished in that way? im trying to put my view on force out there so you guys know exactly how bravers feel. No one hates Force that much yet, but just watch, just watch. it's going to happen very soon. Its always the strongest class gets the most hate. always

and yes i've played many other classes, including force up to level 30, it was #1 very unattractive, #2 sad that i noticed that all the rods seem very feminine in design (just look at that goddamn bunny rod, sega obviously stapled stereotypes to each class, just look at the goddamn trailers, force is a female, females have higher t-atk stats, thats they way sega wants it.) #3 not much about quick reaction dodging/countering. IMO casting spells is not very exciting.

[Remz69]

Sega should give us tech tier damage bonuses.

Simple, gi, ra, na, sa, and il techs would each get a damage bonus from their respective skills.

Force would get simple, gi, and ra. Techer would get na, sa, il, and support.

Pooling into those instead of an element would give you good performance at multiple ranges and against multiple enemies, but not as much as maxing an element for that specific area.

hmm, but if the bonuses are 'small', damage wise, why would you choose techer sub over Fi or Br

[Macman]

So clutter their skill trees up even more like Hunter. Great idea.

I wanna say they should just make enemy weakness matter more, but that would merely fuck over the players who won't or can't buy skill trees.

[Alukard]

Sega should give us tech tier damage bonuses.

Simple, gi, ra, na, sa, and il techs would each get a damage bonus from their respective skills.

Force would get simple, gi, and ra. Techer would get na, sa, il, and support.

Pooling into those instead of an element would give you good performance at multiple ranges and against multiple enemies, but not as much as maxing an element for that specific area.

Won't add any variety either. The solution is so simple, yet you guys fail to mention it. Skill trees were never good at offering variety, because by making one decision you reduce your chars potential since other choices become unavailable. The best way to handle this would be removing the obsolete skill tree system and transferring the bonuses for techs/skills to equipment.

[Vampy]

Not entirely force pre SH was up there with gunner no one had issues with it. At most the hate went towards Fo/Te that only spammed namegid on DF. The issue is when sega adds bandaid solutions with an on going problem like shunka braver started poorly balanced and has remained poorly balance to this day. The shunka nerf depending how it is handled will help a lot. Before it was weapons then they gave us that and hatou then shunka not long after. They gave braver way more than it really needed at least in terms of katana.

[Remz69]

Won't add any variety either. The solution is so simple, yet you guys fail to mention it. Skill trees were never good at offering variety, because by making one decision you reduce your chars potential since other choices become unavailable. The best way to handle this would be removing the obsolete skill tree system and transferring the bonuses for techs/skills to equipment.

it's been mentioned multiple times i'm pretty sure
but that simply won't happen
however, them changing stuff on the trees is a more real possibility

[Alukard]

it's been mentioned multiple times i'm pretty sure
but that simply won't happen
however, them changing stuff on the trees is a more real possibility

I don't think such a change would be unreasonable. There are games with a way higher player base that removed their skill tree system for said reason. This concept isn't anything new to sega either, the orignal pso was based on this.

[Vampy]

I feel it should have remained that way. It would help a good amount.

[gigawuts]

hmm, but if the bonuses are 'small', damage wise, why would you choose techer sub over Fi or Br

I didn't say small bonuses. I just said bonuses. The elemental skills we have now are also bonuses. Large or small matters far less than the actual concept of boosting the tiers, which have varied elements and varied rangers.

Ideally, I'd advocate for any Force tree having 2 elements or 2 tiers. A fire/ice fo, with both masteries & TCA/etc. maxed, should be possible. Same with tiers - if you want simple and gi techs you'd be able to get both.

Specialization is too much of a necessity, and generalization is penalized too much due to impeding specialization.

Of course, a lot of this could be solved if enemies had more random weaknesses. Dagans weak to light/fire/ice, el ardas weak to light/fire/dark, kuklos weak to light/lightning/wind, etc. If specced forces could still be decent generalist forces because of how many more things are weak to their element a lot of problems would be alleviated. Give enemies some resistances to elements 95-90%, then give Techer a skill that weakens all resisted elements by 10%. Now you've got enemies weak to even more elements by 5-9%, but only if you have that skill on Techer. Make it 1-5 sp or free or something I don't care.

Those only fix some of the problems, not all of them. There are many, many different ways to alleviate these problems. Some don't work together well, some do. Sega won't do any of them, at least not for a long time. They like that you have to buy multiple skilltrees to be a versatile FO.

Won't add any variety either. The solution is so simple, yet you guys fail to mention it. Skill trees were never good at offering variety, because by making one decision you reduce your chars potential since other choices become unavailable. The best way to handle this would be removing the obsolete skill tree system and transferring the bonuses for techs/skills to equipment.

The underlying assumption is that this isn't even an option. Obviously this is the most desirable goal - a PSO2 where classes are balanced individually, where weapons are what offer significant bonuses, and you don't have to pay up cash or use a rarely given out ticket to tweak your class's ability. This sounds vaguely familiar, it's like they've done it before - multiple times - and is why the PS franchise became so popular in the first place. And then it's like they intentionally stepped away from that, since it isn't here right now.

Sega invested a lot of time and money into designing this system, and isn't likely to just let it go considering how many months it took to even acknowledge shunka was in a stupid state nevermind do something about it...and by the time they're actually doing something to it it really isn't in nearly as stupid of a state.

So since the skilltrees aren't leaving, augmenting them is the alternative.

Sega clearly wants to sell extra skilltrees and skilltree resets. This is true on every class, but force is the only class where it actually matters for offense (meaning it's the only class where it actually matters at all). Minmaxing for different elements requires more trees, unlike Ranger, Gunner, or Hunter where the optimum build will apply bonuses to all PAs. We can either fight that and hit a brick wall, or tweak it to a more preferable state.

Of course, nothing is going to happen at all because they don't give a rat fuck and only give out pity changes to keep the rabble quiet in between monthly bikini updates.

[Alukard]

The underlying assumption is that this isn't even an option. Obviously this is the most desirable goal - a PSO2 where classes are balanced individually, where weapons are what offer significant bonuses, and you don't have to pay up cash or use a rarely given out ticket to tweak your class's ability. This sounds vaguely familiar, it's like they've done it before - multiple times - and is why the PS franchise became so popular in the first place. And then it's like they intentionally stepped away from that, since it isn't here right now.

Sega invested a lot of time and money into designing this system, and isn't likely to just let it go considering how many months it took to even acknowledge shunka was in a stupid state nevermind do something about it...and by the time they're actually doing something to it it really isn't in nearly as stupid of a state.

So since the skilltrees aren't leaving, augmenting them is the alternative.

Sega clearly wants to sell extra skilltrees and skilltree resets. This is true on every class, but force is the only class where it actually matters for offense (meaning it's the only class where it actually matters at all). Minmaxing for different elements requires more trees, unlike Ranger, Gunner, or Hunter where the optimum build will apply bonuses to all PAs. We can either fight that and hit a brick wall, or tweak it to a more preferable state.

Of course, nothing is going to happen at all because they don't give a rat fuck and only give out pity changes to keep the rabble quiet in between monthly bikini updates.

yep, it's basically the how to make money 101.

[Remz69]

I didn't say small bonuses. I just said bonuses. The elemental skills we have now are also bonuses. Large or small matters far less than the actual concept of boosting the tiers, which have varied elements and varied rangers.

Ideally, I'd advocate for any Force tree having 2 elements or 2 tiers. A fire/ice fo, with both masteries & TCA/etc. maxed, should be possible. Same with tiers - if you want simple and gi techs you'd be able to get both.

Specialization is too much of a necessity, and generalization is penalized too much due to impeding specialization.

Of course, a lot of this could be solved if enemies had more random weaknesses. Dagans weak to light/fire/ice, el ardas weak to light/fire/dark, kuklos weak to light/lightning/wind, etc. If specced forces could still be decent generalist forces because of how many more things are weak to their element a lot of problems would be alleviated. Give enemies some resistances to elements 95-90%, then give Techer a skill that weakens all resisted elements by 10%. Now you've got enemies weak to even more elements by 5-9%, but only if you have that skill on Techer. Make it 1-5 sp or free or something I don't care.

Those only fix some of the problems, not all of them. There are many, many different ways to alleviate these problems. Some don't work together well, some do. Sega won't do any of them, at least not for a long time. They like that you have to buy multiple skilltrees to be a versatile FO.



ok, now i see, that was just bad reading and assumptions on my part
this doesn't sound so bad :-)

[btw-Niji]

Ugh, so they really are carrying out the SrollJA and Shunka nerfs even though RA and FO are extremely OP now...

IMO, the SrollJA nerf is unnecessary. At the moment, GU kinda sucks. It's very inefficient in TA and TD. The only thing GU is good at is bursting in AQ... that's it. Compared to other classes, GU is really weak. I guess GU is good for people who suck at the game because... well... the class takes no effort at all to play well.

As for Shunka.... God damn it, if you took away Shunka, what does Braver have that's comparable to what RA and FO can do now? Almost nothing. Although Hatou might be better DPS in a lot of situations, it can't replace Shunka for everything.

Yes, Shunka was ridiculous back in it's earlier days, but since the changes to RA and FO, I would say it's completely fair now.

Anyway, I really wish people would understand that nerfs like this are never the answer to anything. All they do is waste everybody's time.

[Xaelouse]

buffing everything to shunka levels of strength is dumb too.
FO now has a laundry list of obsolete techs now more than ever, with sabarta at the very top.
RA is...well WB has been a thing since ever.

[Gardios]

Just because another class is stronger doesn't mean you shouldn't nerf things of weaker classes that are out of line as well.

[Fermat's Last Broham]

I think the best solution would be to just buff the underpowered weapons/PAs (hunter/fighter/wands/bows), leave the others how they are, and add in a new difficulty or buff the enemies. That way no one gets nerfed and the game becomes more balanced, all the while avoiding a power creep. Also as a side note, I would love it if wands got some PAs.

[Dia79]

Ugh, so they really are carrying out the SrollJA and Shunka nerfs even though RA and FO are extremely OP now...

IMO, the SrollJA nerf is unnecessary. At the moment, GU kinda sucks. It's very inefficient in TA and TD. The only thing GU is good at is bursting in AQ... that's it. Compared to other classes, GU is really weak. I guess GU is good for people who suck at the game because... well... the class takes no effort at all to play well.

As for Shunka.... God damn it, if you took away Shunka, what does Braver have that's comparable to what RA and FO can do now? Almost nothing. Although Hatou might be better DPS in a lot of situations, it can't replace Shunka for everything.

Yes, Shunka was ridiculous back in it's earlier days, but since the changes to RA and FO, I would say it's completely fair now.

Anyway, I really wish people would understand that nerfs like this are never the answer to anything. All they do is waste everybody's time.


again. ..The buff/nerf pic says they are still waiting to see about Gunner S-Roll.

about shunka nerf it was just question of time and i speak as a katana lover
but when i see forces or gus or ras in the air spamming shunka all the time
i feel bad about the game so i kinda welcome the nerf.:-?

[Sanguine2009]

I think the best solution would be to just buff the underpowered weapons/PAs (hunter/fighter/wands/bows), leave the others how they are, and add in a new difficulty or buff the enemies. That way no one gets nerfed and the game becomes more balanced, all the while avoiding a power creep. Also as a side note, I would love it if wands got some PAs.

that is literally the text book definition of power creep

[Fermat's Last Broham]

Buffing something in response to something else that's overpowered is, sure, and it may lead to everything just getting stronger and stronger. But you can counteract it by buffing the enemies as well. In the end (and let's be honest, the end-game is the only part that really matters when talking about balance) I don't think any class needs to kill any faster than it does now. Some just need to kill slower. You can achieve this without nerfing anything. I guess I should have said "while avoiding the negative effects of a power creep," but whatever.

[Kantalope]

Buffing something in response to something else that's overpowered is, sure, and it may lead to everything just getting stronger and stronger. But you can counteract it by buffing the enemies as well. In the end (and let's be honest, the end-game is the only part that really matters when talking about balance) I don't think any class needs to kill any faster than it does now. Some just need to kill slower. You can achieve this without nerfing anything. I guess I should have said "while avoiding the negative effects of a power creep," but whatever.

If you buff the enemies on top of buffing the underpowered things, you're right back at square one with bigger numbers for no reason.

[Gardios]

Buffing something in response to something else that's overpowered is, sure, and it may lead to everything just getting stronger and stronger. But you can counteract it by buffing the enemies as well.

...that's still power creep.

[Macman]

In the end (and let's be honest, the end-game is the only part that really matters when talking about balance)
No. Stop that right now. This thinking is the reason so much viability in PAs is locked behind the RNG-wall of level 16 disks. No more.

[omgwtflolbbl]

I think the best solution would be to just buff the underpowered weapons/PAs (hunter/fighter/wands/bows), leave the others how they are, and add in a new difficulty or buff the enemies. That way no one gets nerfed and the game becomes more balanced, all the while avoiding a power creep. Also as a side note, I would love it if wands got some PAs.

So basically, you'd like to go through with the entire process of power creep?

You avoid power creep precisely so that you do not have to deal with doing all of this. It's a lot of work to have to do this, and once you're "done", you're very likely to have buffed something too much, and the process starts all over again. This is power creep, and your line of thinking is what encourages it.

Decide on what your desired balance points. Then you buff things underneath those points, and nerf things too powerful.

If you have a select few elements out of many that are clearly outclassing the rest, then you can just nerf those few elements and be done with it. Same thing in reverse - if there are couple of elements clearly underperforming compared to everything else, you can just simply buff those.

But if you constantly buff things to the highest power, and never nerf - that's inviting power creep, and it's much harder to hit that sweet spot of "pretty balanced", because it typically requires you to make much bigger changes.

Nobody likes to see their favorite class/weapons/whatever get nerfed, but to take the approach of "never nerf" is typically very bad.

[XrosBlader821]

*snip*
Just because people are dickheads about sour class doesn't mean that you should be a dickhead about their classes. That's just childish and some people are doing it out of personal reasons that shouldn't bother you.

[Kondibon]

So I see this, and I see the mechs, and the only thing I can think is that I'd rather them be an alternative to PBs than tied to an EQ. :/

[Reiketsu]

So I see this, and I see the mechs, and the only thing I can think is that I'd rather them be an alternative to PBs than tied to an EQ. :/

I really hope we'll get to see the Mechs outside that EQ at some point.

Actually, they should give us PvP revolving around those Mechs.
I really want that. All-out Mecha Battle Royale!

[Gardios]

They should just make a console port of BB instead. ;_;

[Sanguine2009]

i would kill for a game mode pvp or otherwise that allows me to pilot without waiting for an EQ.

[Maninbluejumpsuit]

So I see this, and I see the mechs, and the only thing I can think is that I'd rather them be an alternative to PBs than tied to an EQ. :/


I really hope we'll get to see the Mechs outside that EQ at some point.

Actually, they should give us PvP revolving around those Mechs.
I really want that. All-out Mecha Battle Royale!


i would kill for a game mode pvp or otherwise that allows me to pilot without waiting for an EQ.

I can't really imagine this game being called phantasy star at that point.

Should be instead named 'Why aren't you playing titanfall, armored core, border break, dynasty warriors gundam online 2?'

[Chdata]

woh here. i didn't start it, its all the braver haters, you see playing braver automatically makes you a fanboy. howabout the force lovers who just want to see shunka tears?
please, i only react this way when i see disgusting posts about b20 = braver. how would you feel if your class was diminished in that way? im trying to put my view on force out there so you guys know exactly how bravers feel. No one hates Force that much yet, but just watch, just watch. it's going to happen very soon. Its always the strongest class gets the most hate. always

and yes i've played many other classes, including force up to level 30, it was #1 very unattractive, #2 sad that i noticed that all the rods seem very feminine in design (just look at that goddamn bunny rod, sega obviously stapled stereotypes to each class, just look at the goddamn trailers, force is a female, females have higher t-atk stats, thats they way sega wants it.) #3 not much about quick reaction dodging/countering. IMO casting spells is not very exciting.

Just so you know, if you're talking about my thread, I currently main FoTe and HuBr... does this mean I want shunka tears, or does it mean I'm a braver fanboy?

[Cyron Tanryoku]

i only react this way when i see disgusting posts about b20 = braver. how would you feel if your class was diminished in that way?
i would continue to play the game to my liking. who cares lol

[Sizustar]

Added video to all the new contents~
Let me know if anything else needs change.

[Skye-Fox713]

I need to get that Shining blade TMG camo and that tank room deco.

[Kilich]

I can't really imagine this game being called phantasy star at that point.

Should be instead named 'Why aren't you playing titanfall, armored core, border break, dynasty warriors gundam online 2?'

Titanfall is kinda boring and console only.
Armored Core 5 is not that good, I think, also not enough people play it and its console only.
Border Break is Japan only, Japan arcades even.
Dynasty Warriors is a pretty terrible mmo, I think. Also, isn't it about medieval China? I want science fiction.
Gundam Online is ping demanding and, if I'm not wrong, ip blocked.

[Skye-Fox713]

Titanfall is kinda boring and console only.


Titanfall is not console only, I play it on PC every now and then.

[Macman]

But it's Origin exclusive, which is just as bad.

[Cyron Tanryoku]

What Macman said

[Sp-24]

Origin is just another Steam, though, and people can't contain their orgasms over that one.

And I guess Maninbluejumpsuit's point has been completely missed. Lesson learned: always end your posts with </sarcasm>.

[Yden]

Origin is just another Steam, though, and people can't contain their orgasms over that one.

And I guess Maninbluejumpsuit's point has been completely missed. Lesson learned: always end your posts with </sarcasm>.

The problem about origin is that it's not as stable as steam. There are many cases where origin won't even detect that you own a game and the common response to any problems with the client is to reinstall.

[Zorua]

Yeeeeesss! More pillows for my collection. Soon FOnewearl and HUnewearl will be joining my lilipan pillow.

This is great. Though, I could use one of these as well...
[SPOILER-BOX]http://i.imgur.com/gw5c02B.png[/SPOILER-BOX]

[Maninbluejumpsuit]

How the hell did I manage to accidentally derail a convo? :-?



And I guess Maninbluejumpsuit's point has been completely missed. Lesson learned: always end your posts with </sarcasm>.

Yeah I guess I should.

My point is, I don't think we can call this a phantasy star game anymore if SEGA took heed to those suggestions of making mechs such a major part of gameplay. (I mean cmon, replacing photon blasts with the ability to call down pilotable mechs? Really?)

[Gardios]

Thanks for linking the videos, Sizu.

Funny that they made Ichitarou's... splash emote after all. :lol: Did they mention in the stream why Momoi didn't have any LAs this time?

[oratank]

I can't really imagine this game being called phantasy star at that point.

Should be instead named 'Why aren't you playing titanfall, armored core, border break, dynasty warriors gundam online 2?'

in before we had fight df with land rover (`・ω・´)

[Omega-z]

^ @Maninbluejumpsuit I actually had the same thought after the video, even tho it is cool but out of place tho. At this rate it's going to be called

P L O 2GB
Code : L.O.S.E.R

[Chdata]

Everyone place your bets. Ship02 for coming dead last in the ship competition.

[gigawuts]

Honestly, I don't know. I think if adjusted for player count, during JP off-hours we'd by far be the worst off. But during JP hours? I dunno, I think ship 2 would do okay.

But then, I don't pay attention to where all the good players supposedly are. I hear things about ship 10 and ship 8 I guess? I dunno.

I understand why they paired ships up, but I'd rather they didn't. Or maybe I'd rather they did, but they swapped around who was with who each time.

I liked the chao vibes I got from the rappy racing though.

[Sp-24]

Everyone place your bets. Ship02 for coming dead last in the ship competition.
Not one of the dead ships instead? I mean, sure, Ship 1 is the worst matchup we could have, but Ship 2 has some good players. That Chicken Hunter person who often appears in TA rankings, for one thing, and then there are all these MLG pros from PSO-World, who already blacklisted half of the ship for having less than 8 affixes on everything.

[Chdata]

Yeah it's a joke, I don't literally think ship02 will do too terrible if the contest is just similar to getting Arks Bingo stuff or interrupt enemy kill rankings.

But then again... you guys do know how terrible during EQs ship02 is in comparison to other ships right?

[btw-Niji]

nah, we will win.

that .helenya guy will carry us

[GHNeko]

I'm conflicted.

On one hand...Shunka Nerf.

On the other... Level 3 Technic Recipes.

What is a BROFO to do...

[Zorua]

Not one of the dead ships instead? I mean, sure, Ship 1 is the worst matchup we could have, but Ship 2 has some good players. That Chicken Hunter person who often appears in TA rankings, for one thing, and then there are all these MLG pros from PSO-World, who already blacklisted half of the ship for having less than 8 affixes on everything.

Assuming you meant that ship 1 would beat ship 2, I think it could go either way, really. I know you guys have some really blegh players over there (crafted susanos for example), but we have that problem over here too (including the crafted susanos part). Hell, we even managed to fail to reach 100% on saturday's Luther attack.

[gigawuts]

I'm conflicted.

On one hand...Shunka Nerf.

On the other... Level 3 Technic Recipes.

What is a BROFO to do...

I don't know if you're for or against level 3 tech recipes, but the vibes I'm getting are that you're against it.

Me too.

Instead of actually properly fixing techs, they're fixing techs and attaching a meseta cost to those fixes. Also there's the RNG.

GG Sega.

[Sp-24]

I'd say RNG is less of a problem with tech crafting, especially seeing how every higher level recipe has better merits and demerits. At least when we compare it to weapon extending, which is pure bullshit if you're going for lower requirements, not even to mention all-class status.

Of course, its existence, along with the tedium of crafting, is still a massive problem. But, Sega gonna Sega, yeah.

[Rakurai]

Would be nice if they added a Darker boss that's even bigger then Dark Bibras to beat up using the mechs.

[gigawuts]

I'd say RNG is less of a problem with tech crafting, especially seeing how every higher level recipe has better merits and demerits. At least when we compare it to weapon extending, which is pure bullshit if you're going for lower requirements, not even to mention all-class status.

Of course, its existence, along with the tedium of crafting, is still a massive problem. But, Sega gonna Sega, yeah.

Weapon extending isn't meant to make things good, it's meant to make things not as bad. That's it, really. It's a fallback for players without premium who can't farm for a good rare and for people who really want to use X weapon because it looks cool.

It's a way to ensure that, no matter what, every weapon will always be able to perform at a bare minimum in all future content. All they have to do is add another extend level and boom - everyone can instantly be caught up.

Which, honestly, out of all of the game balance decisions they've made, is one of the better ones. I really did expect them to just keep adding reskins and reskins of reskins and reskins with another letter on the name when they ran out of palette swaps (Maybe like just an asterisk, so in Very Ultimate the b20 pugs would all be using Dio Ardillou*+10 while the good players are all using the brand new Lambda Ardillou** +10)

[infiniteeverlasting]

Is it just me or does it seem that the addition of mechs in TD seems a lot like they're trying to do what monolith soft's "x" is doing.

[Sp-24]

I thought they were riding on Titanfall's (over)hype, but, yeah, it seems like they're inspired by X. What's with one game calling their stuff "Dolls", and other - "Silhouettes", instead of calling a robot a fucking "robot".

[Sizustar]

So if they allow PA crafting, how should the merit and demirit work on PA crafting?

[Melodys]

If Shunka ends up being nerfed to total uselessness, there would be so few Bravers in TD. Sure, they could Kanran/warcry to aggro the Goldras but then what? Hatouing to kill one at an angry mob is too slow and Sakura End at its current state won't cut it due to a lack of maneuverability and safety unless maybe in Katana Combat. Maybe buffed Asagiri teleporting to maintain in air and slash one at a time? I don't know.

[Maninbluejumpsuit]

If Shunka ends up being nerfed to total uselessness

Not going to happen.

[Rakurai]

I'm glad the level 3 tech recipes at least seem to doing away with more of the awful demerits on some of the customizations (Changing concentrated Foie demerit to reduce status chance instead of raising PP cost, for instance).

I was also expecting them to cost more then 10 fragments because Sega.

And yeah. While Shunka is getting nerfed, I'd be surprised if it isn't still the top damage PA for Bravers.

[infiniteeverlasting]

If Shunka ends up being nerfed to total uselessness, there would be so few Bravers in TD. Sure, they could Kanran/warcry to aggro the Goldras but then what? Hatouing to kill one at an angry mob is too slow and Sakura End at its current state won't cut it due to a lack of maneuverability and safety unless maybe in Katana Combat. Maybe buffed Asagiri teleporting to maintain in air and slash one at a time? I don't know.

Maybe gekka zakura has increased AOE now, it's a possibility.

After seeing so many amazing weapon camps, due to the large number of them, is it possible that they can cost under 1mil for once?

[omgwtflolbbl]

I have friends that I talk to over RC on ship 10 while I stay on ship 2 (I decided not to move over, I just have a spare char I occasionally play on ship 10 now if there's nothing to do on ship 2), and during scheduled DFL EQs ship 10 typically sits at like 10-15% higher than ship 2 by the end. In all honesty, though, I don't really think the difference is anything super amazing in terms of overall skill like some people like to say. I've run quite a few painfully sad SH DFLs on ship 10 that timed out, and it took like a week for one of my friends on ship 10 to actually get into a group that managed to clear him without timing out.

...admittedly, my friend was dragging the party down (like a 50/25 Br/Hu with a really bad weapon), but still lol.

[Macman]

I'd say RNG is less of a problem with tech crafting, especially seeing how every higher level recipe has better merits and demerits. At least when we compare it to weapon extending, which is pure bullshit if you're going for lower requirements, not even to mention all-class status.

Weapon extending fucking sucks because the costs are way too damn high for too little gain.

If anyone out there has extend craft level 40, then you have way too much meseta to waste.

[Edson Drake]

I like the Gekka Zakuro Buff, I enjoyed using Gekka and Tsukimi Sazanka in DF Arms' behind before Shunka/Hatou introduction. Being that said I'd also like a Tsukimi Sazanka buff to go along.

I'm finding weird so many people complaining about Il Megid being OP. Seriously? A decently crafted Umbral Megid 2 can achieve close results and with an AoE. Which can also exploit Zondeel. Il Megid just removes the hassle.

What's making Il Megid powerful is stacking Element Conversion with a weapon that has Demonic Smile and 50% Dark, something all other classes were doing long time ago, when Force was still behind.

The other techs that aren't Il Megid still need more love though. It seems Sega is going to leave tech balancing in our hands through crafting however.

[Alukard]

I like the Gekka Zakuro Buff, I enjoyed using Gekka and Tsukimi Sazanka in DF Arms' behind before Shunka/Hatou introduction. Being that said I'd also like a Tsukimi Sazanka buff to go along.

I'm finding weird so many people complaining about Il Megid being OP. Seriously? A decently crafted Umbral Megid 2 can achieve close results and with an AoE. Which can also exploit Zondeel. Il Megid just removes the hassle.

What's making Il Megid powerful is stacking Element Conversion with a weapon that has Demonic Smile and 50% Dark, something all other classes were doing long time ago, when Force was still behind.

The other techs that aren't Il Megid still need more love though. It seems Sega is going to leave tech balancing in our hands through crafting however.

Idk what to say:-?

I better go to classes, I guess^^;

[Rehal]

I'm glad the level 3 tech recipes at least seem to doing away with more of the awful demerits on some of the customizations (Changing concentrated Foie demerit to reduce status chance instead of raising PP cost, for instance).
Where read this?
Need more info!

[omgwtflolbbl]

I'm finding weird so many people complaining about Il Megid being OP.

The problem with techs/PAs like Il Megid (and Shunka), to me, are the fact that they are so utterly mindless. They don't really require any sort of thought to use and be effective with, especially for the myriad of effects they give. I'm not saying that other PAs/techs in the game require rocket science to use or anything, but Il Megid is literally just letting the game autoseek enemies to destroy for you while requiring almost nothing except for you to charge it up and let go. You could be blindfolded and still kill stuff pretty easily with it.

To me, it's not even the balance/OPness of the numbers (though that of course plays a role). It's the actual design of the ability, how they actually work.

I've used this before, but compare the design of Shunka, a quad-dashing/homing PA that both covers a decent amount of ground with each mini "dash" and sports a very respectable range on each of the actual slashes themselves, with the entirety of the Knuckle PA set, which don't really cover any ground (outside of Straight Charge, which doesn't fulfill the role of both damage dealer and gap closer anyways due to the nature of the attack forcing you to choose one or the other, and RNGFist which is lol when looking at its design).

[GHNeko]

I don't know if you're for or against level 3 tech recipes, but the vibes I'm getting are that you're against it.

Me too.

Instead of actually properly fixing techs, they're fixing techs and attaching a meseta cost to those fixes. Also there's the RNG.

GG Sega.

I'm actually excited about Level 3 Techs simply because seeing as I'm a non-standard build, any tool Sega gives me to better allow me to play with the big boys is greatly appreciated.

If anything, I support any changes that allow hybrid builds, non-standard builds, and hybrid non-standard builds to better flourish because straight shot and cookie-cutter builds are waaack.

I've dealt with enough min-maxing from PSO1 to last a few lifetimes. I reallllly want things to go against the grain.

HOWEVER...when you put that last part like that, I'm now concerned I'm growing complacent with Sega's F2P RNG Shenanigans of which I'm partially circumventing with Premium/AC.

Help!

I'm falling into their trap!

But I'm having too much fun to stop!

[Z-0]

Where read this?
Need more info!
http://pso2.jp/players/update/20140611/02/image/ss_02_l.jpg

[Shadowth117]

Well, while that's cool I'm more worried that it means that some of the ones that are status effect based now might BECOME PP demerits. And that would suck as you can all imagine.

Thanks for source by the way, Zyn.

[Edson Drake]

The problem with techs/PAs like Il Megid (and Shunka), to me, are the fact that they are so utterly mindless. They don't really require any sort of thought to use and be effective with, especially for the myriad of effects they give. I'm not saying that other PAs/techs in the game require rocket science to use or anything, but Il Megid is literally just letting the game autoseek enemies to destroy for you while requiring almost nothing except for you to charge it up and let go. You could be blindfolded and still kill stuff pretty easily with it.

To me, it's not even the balance/OPness of the numbers (though that of course plays a role). It's the actual design of the ability, how they actually work.

I've used this before, but compare the design of Shunka, a quad-dashing/homing PA that both covers a decent amount of ground with each mini "dash" and sports a very respectable range on each of the actual slashes themselves, with the entirety of the Knuckle PA set, which don't really cover any ground (outside of Straight Charge, which doesn't fulfill the role of both damage dealer and gap closer anyways due to the nature of the attack forcing you to choose one or the other, and RNGFist which is lol when looking at its design).

Yeah, but I see Il Megid as a huge balancing act towards leveling players too. It's somewhat painful leveling a Force/Techter and I did that twice. One in another account right at the dawn of the Shunka era and no AQ party wanted to invite me at all just because I was a Force and I was actually being a demerit to the party.

The new Force/Techer I built a while ago was extremely easier thanks to Il Megid and I was going Dark anyway so it was a huge plus. Players now are just exploiting them with large PP pools and equipment, just like any other class. I agree on the no-skill part though, it requires no effort, which makes it a lazy build. But since Forces are so fragile(unlike Braver and Gunner), it balances itself in my opinion.

[Chdata]

I literally closed my eyes during a PSE Burst (4x Il Megid) and only touched my mouse with auto-aim active cause I was sleepy.

(I made sure that doing this actually made me lock on to stuff properly before doing that, of course).

[GHNeko]

Yeah, but I see Il Megid as a huge balancing act towards leveling players too. It's somewhat painful leveling a Force/Techter and I did that twice. One in another account right at the dawn of the Shunka era and no AQ party wanted to invite me at all just because I was a Force and I was actually being a demerit to the party.

The new Force/Techer I built a while ago was extremely easier thanks to Il Megid and I was going Dark anyway so it was a huge plus. Players now are just exploiting them with large PP pools and equipment, just like any other class. I agree on the no-skill part though, it requires no effort, which makes it a lazy build. But since Forces are so fragile(unlike Braver and Gunner), it balances itself in my opinion.

Balance on paper != Balance in Game.

Metagame should always be a factor when it comes to balancing things.

A character/build/skill/magic/equip/whatever that performs well or just okay, but is fucking stupid/poorly designed for whatever reason is a problem and must be remedied.

Just because Ilmegid allows FOs to stand on a level of which most would deem okay/balanced doesn't mean it doesn't need tweaking if it causes nonsense like whole builds and strats dedicated to Ilmegid at endgame high-level meta.

If something silly like current Ilmegid is needed to "balance" FO or TE or whatever, then the problem is extrinsic of FO/TE.

[Rehal]

http://pso2.jp/players/update/20140611/02/image/ss_02_l.jpg

(ﾉ･_･)ﾉ　彡┻━┻
(ﾉ･_･)ﾉ　彡 /(.￣ . /)←Zyn
/toge ┻━┻ミ　＼(ﾟ∀ﾟ)／　彡 ┻━┻

[Xaeris]

I don't know how I feel about another tech crafting expansion. On one hand, I like tech crafting; it's a more interesting way for forces and techers to increase their power than just having Sega wave their magic wand and buff/add techs. On the other, shit's expensive. I'm just now catching up to the last expansion, and now the finish line is getting moved back again?

[Edson Drake]

Balance on paper != Balance in Game.

Metagame should always be a factor when it comes to balancing things.

A character/build/skill/magic/equip/whatever that performs well or just okay, but is fucking stupid/poorly designed for whatever reason is a problem and must be remedied.

Just because Ilmegid allows FOs to stand on a level of which most would deem okay/balanced doesn't mean it doesn't need tweaking if it causes nonsense like whole builds and strats dedicated to Ilmegid at endgame high-level meta.

If something silly like current Ilmegid is needed to "balance" FO or TE or whatever, then the problem is extrinsic of FO/TE.

Remember that it was Sega's short-term solution for "balancing". While I do not agree with that, I enjoy Il Megid and for sure many people do too. But I'd rather have Sega buffing other techs for variety, but it seems that's not happening and we'll have a third recipe to deal with that instead.

[Chdata]

One thing to thing about is how imbalanced VH mode or lower becomes, especially for new players learning about the game.

I'm not talking about a maxed player going into a weaker mode and one shotting things in this case, I'm talking about a level 35-40 going into VH for the first time.

I mention this, cause I remember I was new to that and you had to be more efficient with what PA or tech you used. Compared to now where you can just use one PA for everything (mobbing wise).

I also think the game needs hard/more buffed bosses like Luther. I think it'd be perfect if they released a solo mode with luther-tier bosses or something. Not having revives actually makes it so you need to try and be careful. If you think about it, what lasts longer? Time spent against bosses, or time spent against mobs?

Or even a mode with "only 1 or 2 revives per person".


please sega make the force tree in my sig a reality

[Aurorra]

So do we think TD3 is going to have us in mechs for the entire thing or are they going to end up like particle cannons that only the really bad groups have enough time to farm crystals for.

[GHNeko]

Remember that it was Sega's short-term solution for "balancing". While I do not agree with that, I enjoy Il Megid and for sure many people do too. But I'd rather have Sega buffing other techs for variety, but it seems that's not happening and instead we'll have a third recipe to deal with that instead.

Yeah that's understandable. I am just speaking out against the idea of people here having that mentality.

As someone who's studied game design for a long time, works on a competitive game mod as a designer and for balancing, and is a fledgling game developer; the idea that the numbers on paper are sufficient enough is almost always going to be a bad idea because there are just too many variables to consider at almost any given moment.

It's especially true if you don't have a solid foundation-type format of which your balancing is based upon.


One thing to thing about is how imbalanced VH mode or lower becomes, especially for new players learning about the game.

I'm not talking about a maxed player going into a weaker mode and one shotting things in this case, I'm talking about a level 35-40 going into VH for the first time.

I mention this, cause I remember I was new to that and you had to be more efficient with what PA or tech you used. Compared to now where you can just use one PA for everything (mobbing wise).

I also think the game needs hard/more buffed bosses like Luther. I think it'd be perfect if they released a solo mode with luther-tier bosses or something. Not having revives actually makes it so you need to try and be careful.


please sega make the force tree in my sig a reality

a great place to start would to actually have penalties for dying...period. Multi or Solo.

Like oh i dont know...dropping money and items.

of course this means work on cutting out bs kills and stunlocking but still.

[Chdata]

This reminds me of Megaman X7.

http://youtu.be/v663Y5WNSu0?t=1m3s

Ignore the commentary, this is the quickest vid I could find.


Anyway, how about just a mode with no revives or you fail. Like when people die in A1 in sanctum TACO and don't get revived, or die between lilipa's barriers (which technically isn't a fail all the time but most people don't know the other way through the TACO and it takes longer).

Or you could do something like Luther --> Don't have WB or mirage? You lost, because it's going to take you 15 minutes instead of 5. Good game to your other characters.

I think the fact that PSO2 has this "time-sensitive farming" thing is pretty bad. Compared to other games with some boss that spawns at a location where you can camp and fight it multiple times with a team or whatever whenever you want to, but fighting the boss itself was fairly difficult and required good gear and stats. Sadly PSO2 isn't that type of game. I think the only thing I like about it is that it's fairly good in terms of action RPG and how anime-oriented it is with graphics.

[Macman]

a great place to start would to actually have penalties for dying...period. Multi or Solo.

Like oh i dont know...dropping money and items.

of course this means work on cutting out bs kills and stunlocking but still.
I'd be for a miniscule EXP penalty on death that only gets substantial if you're one of those tards that die 5 times every Apos Dorios fight. Something like 1% of your tnl at first and going up to 5% by the 5th death in a single area. Make people play a bit more carefully without the occasional BS death meaning too much.

And to not screw over the long-term MPA farmers, clearing an emergency trial will reset this counter.

[Edson Drake]

So do we think TD3 is going to have us in mechs for the entire thing or are they going to end up like particle cannons that only the really bad groups have enough time to farm crystals for.

I think it's the latter unfortunately. Notice that the image displays a tank, so it's probably tier-based like the TD we have now, basically:

TD

1st Burst Barrier short
2nd Repair small
3rd Burst Barrier long
4th Repair large

Silhouette

1st Burst Barrier/repair small(?)
2nd Tank
3rd Burst Barrier/repair large(?)
4th Mech

Awesome either way. That comment that called a battle with DF using a Land Rover would be amazing too.

[DeathDragon2332]

That 4th dress is the exact one I got in PSU when they did the Shining Blade collab in 2012, I think it was. I hope I can get it again. The red, white, and black one.

[GHNeko]

This reminds me of Megaman X7.

http://youtu.be/v663Y5WNSu0?t=1m3s

Ignore the commentary, this is the quickest vid I could find.


Anyway, how about just a mode with no revives or you fail. Like when people die in A1 in sanctum TACO and don't get revived, or die between lilipa's barriers (which technically isn't a fail all the time but most people don't know the other way through the TACO and it takes longer).

Or you could do something like Luther --> Don't have WB or mirage? You lost, because it's going to take you 15 minutes instead of 5. Good game to your other characters.

I think the fact that PSO2 has this "time-sensitive farming" thing is pretty bad. Compared to other games with some boss that spawns at a location where you can camp and fight it multiple times with a team or whatever whenever you want to, but fighting the boss itself was fairly difficult and required good gear and stats. Sadly PSO2 isn't that type of game. I think the only thing I like about it is that it's fairly good in terms of action RPG and how anime-oriented it is with graphics.

I actually thing the time-based EQs are a good idea. They just need better execution in PSO2.

Boss farming in normal MMORPGs means just waiting for a boss to spawn within a certain area for who knows how long, if it even spawns at all! What's the purpose of that? It's especially worse if its random based or has spawn times on a variance range of +/- XXmins or Xhrs or if bosses wont spawn after build killed by anyone for X amount of days.

PSO2's method ensures consistent participation and only gives you so much time to do as much as possible to also encourage you to come back when the next EQ comes. It ensures that there is a large amount of participation and that people and players get together. Almost everyone knows when the EQs are coming, regardless of whether you find out via the game itself, es, PSO2 alert, bumped, or whatever. So it makes it easier to prepare and you dont really have to be caught of guard for it.

It's player friendly and spreads out server load.



I'd be for a miniscule EXP penalty on death that only gets substantial if you're one of those tards that die 5 times every Apos Dorios fight. Something like 1% of your tnl at first and going up to 5% by the 5th death in a single area. Make people play a bit more carefully without the occasional BS death meaning too much.

Deaths SHOULD mean something in this game at least. There should be a significant impact.

The thing is that recovering from this impact should not be impossible, but it should be a positive stressor that encourages the player to do better without heavily getting under their skin.

PSO1's punishment for death does that job pretty well. You drop all money on hand and your weapon and you have to travel back to pick it up. In single player, this was a minor annoyance because unless you had a second weapon, you'd either go back barehanded or you'd buy something temporary you'd have to sellback at 40% of the original price when you got your shit back....if you had money in the bank to pull out. But for the time being, you were in a worse position than before you died, but you weren't terribly worried because you're shit would be waiting for you when you got back.

Online, the consequences could be a lot more severe when playing with randoms for obvious reasons, but that was a part of the game and it made players more cautious when not playing with friends because they knew they could lose a lot if they goofed.

Bring that back to PSO2. Tweak it to better fit within this game. Deaths should be significant enough that you feel it and really dont want it to happen, but reversing the penalty shouldnt be too hard, but until its reverse, you're not in a good position.

[WildarmsRE5]

isn't the Mecha game mode looks like this?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_fQ7pSZ4VMU

I hope the controls are also similar to these lol.

[Chdata]

frog

Actually yeah, I do admit that it's 'fun' to have these on-the-hour random global emergencies that everyone takes part in. But how do you address the whole "TACO and then afk for falz" issue some players have.

It just doesn't seem like there's good enough non-EQ stuff to farm. I want to see some super difficult mode with amazing rewards. Heck, XQ could be just that if it banned moon atomizers and were a bit more difficult.

Also in my case, I was thinking of Runescape where bosses have a set respawn time of like 30 seconds or a minute. But in that game, even tanking is was thing.

People would solo, duo, quad, or go in even bigger groups. Of course you'd have to be near maxed with crazy gear and buff items to do solo or duo stuff for some bosses.

If you die, you'd have a minute to make it all the way back to that place to loot the items you drop. You can only keep 3 items, and there's various items that are completely destroyed when you drop them that take tons of traveling around the world to reobtain. Of course then they added gravestones that give you a full hour to get your stuff back, but there are still locations where you'd be lucky to re-enter within an hour. (Boss rooms that require you to kill 40 minions before you can enter, for example).

[GHNeko]

TACOs are nothing more than PSO1's TTF. TTF was a problem then and it's a problem now.

If you have a quest that does it all, outside EQs, then yeah people are going to spam it until they get sick. I mean it's not as BAD as TTF because they've spread all the glorious stuff more evenly, but TACOs are still a great non-shop source of income. They tried to put limits on it by limiting how often you can use the CO, but it's really not that huge of a deterrent lol.

What they probably should do is take a page out of their own book and make risk into a global thing with some extra mechanics.

To get where I'm going with this, think combos.

Let's call these Combo Quests, or CQs for short.

The more quests you run, the higher your combo gets, and the better your drop rates get. (And maybe even money and exp increases) But you have to keep running them back to back.

If you run a quest more than once, your combo breaks. If you die, combo drops (or on higher difficulties, it breaks.) DCes means your combo drops. Campship revives are definite combo breaks. Once you stop running these quests for more than like what..2 mins? The combo breaks. As the combo rises, the monsters' stats are increased by a multiplier.

How high can you go?

Add a ranking system and you have indirect PvP. Highest combo gets stuff every week/month/whatever.

Potentially high, but indirect penalties for failing/dying/not lasting. You run various CQs in a marathon style sitting, and try to keep it up as long as possible. Adding CQs increase variety for those who dont like running the same things over and over.

It's like AQs but done in an adaptive fashion and can be done on any difficulty as the enemy stat increases are based off their base stats.

Granted, this opens the door wide open for 13hour runs where people die so.....

lol.

i'd expect people to be dumb so this can double as a pandora's box. But that's nothing a cap and CQ cooldown cant fix right? e.g. CQ Pass once every 72 hours. Combos (and thusly rate boosts) cap @ XXX%. Intrinsic timer limit of like 10 hours. It's a bit harsh, but this is for safety reasons of extreme players if need be.

either way, that's a rough idea so feel free to rip it apart.

[Rehal]

If you die, you'd have a minute to make it all the way back to that place to loot the items you drop. You can only keep 3 items, and there's various items that are completely destroyed when you drop them that take tons of traveling around the world to reobtain. Of course then they added gravestones that give you a full hour to get your stuff back, but there are still locations where you'd be lucky to re-enter within an hour. (Boss rooms that require you to kill 40 minions before you can enter, for example).

*see someone in pt dies in boss room*
open party menu -> disband party -> confirm -> ??? -> profit
"sorry my hand slipped :D"

Might as well asking for a permanent death with all equipments in character and storage destroyed.

[Rien]

Not going to happen.

Except that's exactly what's happening.

[Macman]

Bring that back to PSO2.
You got juggled by Zeshrayda's projectile spam and died when trying to get a simple CO done alone. Now you're forced out of the quest after leaving your 50 light 11* katana behind and can't go back to pick it up.

Yeah, no.