How to fix Hunter class in two easy steps.

[Maenara]

This addresses the problem of Hunter being a weak main class, and an overpowered subclass.

Step one: Reduce the overall multiplier of all combined Fury Stance-related skills by 50%.

Step two: Change the effect of Fury Gear Boost to "While Fury Stance is active, multiply gear gain and damage modifiers given by Fury Stance-related skills by 200%/220%/240%/260%/300%. Main class Hunter only."

(Optional) Step three: Change the name of Fury Gear Boost to match its changed effect.

(Optional) Step four: Change "Main class Hunter only." to "Main class Hunter or Fighter only."

Problem solved. Hunter is now 50% stronger as a main class, 50% weaker as a sub class, and everyone is encouraged to try out different things as a sub class.

[Aine]

Step five: Everyone goes FoTe

[Maenara]

Step five: Everyone goes FoTe

Step 6: After everyone invests a ton of time and money leveling FO/TE and getting good gear, nerf Ilmegid and Elysion into the ground for total lulz.

(You wouldn't want me to run balance changes because I would go out of my way to punish people who only use what's at the top of the metagame.)

[GoldenFalcon]

Step one: Reduce the overall multiplier of all combined Fury Stance-related skills by 50%.


They already ARE at 50%. JA Bonus is what ruins it.

[Erza]

step 7 buff Pa's now we have a useful class again
step 8 dont join grps with three+ FO/TE.. if you do than make sure you equip a nice gunslash (Vraolet with full potential unlockd BIS in that case)
step 9 enable all your auto words to show how thankful you are

[Eveningxtar]

That is a good idea on how to fix Hu being the ultimate subclass and the useless main class but still Hu weapons and PA might need to be fixed as well so as to allow them to perform on par with the other class.
Atm, nerfing Ilmegid and/or elysion might not be the best option as ilmegid requires proper gear and set up to be optimal thus keeping it as it is might be an option while buffing the other class so we might see more use instead of going into an MPA and seeing the flying hands of doom everywhere

[SakoHaruo]

Why is it always about fixing Hunter?

We love having options, the class isn't broken, no fix is needed!

I can RaHu, BrHu, HuBr, GuHu, TeHu, HuTe, FiHu, HuFi, FoHu

Soon to be: BoHu, HuBo

^ look at all those options!

Leave Hunter alone!

[GoldenFalcon]

Iru Megid should force the caster to get lock-ons like Homing Emission. 3 locks possible for current effect, and no locks = dumbfire like Foie

And this is decidedly a buff to Hunter, of course

[Kondibon]

Iru Megid should force the caster to get lock-ons like Homing Emission.
That's actually a cool idea.

[Raymee]

They already ARE at 50%. JA Bonus is what ruins it.

50% -> 25% is probably what he meant.

[NoiseHERO]

final step: uninstall till bouncer comes back

re-install then repeat

[Maenara]

How to fix Guld Milla in one easy step:

Step one: Change Celestial Bullet's potential from "Recover 5% of all damage dealt as HP." to "10%(Or 15~25%, not sure what a good amount would be) of damage dealt from a blow that kills an enemy is returned as HP."

(Optional) Step two: Watch Gunners cry.

[Aurorra]

Step two: Change the effect of Fury Gear Boost to "While Fury Stance is active, multiply gear gain and damage modifiers given by Fury Stance-related skills by 200%/220%/240%/260%/300%. Main class Hunter only."

(Optional) Step three: Change the name of Fury Gear Boost to match its changed effect.

(Optional) Step four: Change "Main class Hunter only." to "Main class Hunter or Fighter only."

Problem solved. Hunter is now 50% stronger as a main class, 50% weaker as a sub class, and everyone is encouraged to try out different things as a sub class.

And now everyone goes for Hunter Multiclass weapons and the madness continues only 50% stronger.

Better Solution, remove Fury Stance Boost 2, roll that 10% damage loss into Weak Stance, Average Stance, Wise Stance, Brave Stance, Zero Range Advance, and Weak Hit Advance.
Result: Hunter frees up 15 skill points to use on utility, Hu/X and X/Hu keeps the same damage but Br/Fi, Gu/Fi and other class combinations that people ignore see a 20% increase in damage and a return to viability.


They already ARE at 50%. JA Bonus is what ruins it.

He said by 50%, not to 50%. How does JA Bonus ruin it? It's only a 1.1*1.1 modifier, and without it Guard Stance would be even gimpier than it already is

[Maenara]

And now everyone goes for Hunter Multiclass weapons and the madness continues only 50% stronger.

Better Solution, remove Fury Stance Boost 2, roll that 10% damage loss into Weak Stance, Average Stance, Wise Stance, Brave Stance, Zero Range Advance, and Weak Hit Advance.
Result: Hunter frees up 15 skill points to use on utility, Hu/X and X/Hu keeps the same damage but Br/Fi, Gu/Fi and other class combinations that people ignore see a 20% increase in damage and a return to viability.



He said by 50%, not to 50%. How does JA Bonus ruin it? It's only a 1.1*1.1 modifier, and without it Guard Stance would be even gimpier than it already is

Change:
"While Fury Stance is active, multiply gear gain and damage modifiers given by Fury Stance-related skills by 200%/220%/240%/260%/300%. Main class Hunter only."
To:
"While Fury Stance is active and a Sword/Wired Lance/Partizan is equipped, multiply gear gain and damage modifiers given by Fury Stance-related skills by 200%/220%/240%/260%/300%. Main class Hunter only."

[Dnd]

Better Solution, remove Fury Stance Boost 2, roll that 10% damage loss into Weak Stance, Average Stance, Wise Stance, Brave Stance, Zero Range Advance, and Weak Hit Advance.

That is very, very bad. It would actually do nothing in the grand scheme of things to nerf and actually buff some already top tier combinations...

Hunter is great for mobbing, if it wasnt for Shunka hands being completely stupid right now they'd be in a good place. I still feel they need more strong anti boss PA's that arent named over-end and do damage quicker to keep up with others.

Alot of people say Hunter is weak or in a bad place, but I still insist that isn't the case, they are behind other classes, sure. Truely weak and useless? far far from the case...

[Raymee]

Well, I didn't see any hunters using hunter-only equipments during GP2014 that's for sure.

[GoldenFalcon]

Overend getting triple the gear bonus? I dunno guys

[Maenara]

Overend getting triple the gear bonus? I dunno guys

Uh, with Fury Gear Boost maxed, it already does.

[Dnd]

Overend getting triple the gear bonus? I dunno guys

Pretty sure they mean gear generation, not the damage boost the gear gives

[GoldenFalcon]

Uh, with Fury Gear Boost maxed, it already does.

"multiply gear gain and damage modifiers"

Overend would be doing +150% damage at max gear instead of +50%

[Dnd]

"While Fury Stance is active and a Sword/Wired Lance/Partizan is equipped, multiply gear gain and damage modifiers given by Fury Stance-related skills by 200%/220%/240%/260%/300%. Main class Hunter only."

"multiply gear gain and damage modifiers"

Overend would be doing +150% damage at max gear instead of +50%

They are talking about the fury stance related skills, not gear damage boost.

Nerf the current fury stance skills by 50%, so subbing Hu is nerfed somewhat.

Roll the current fury gear boost skill into a 2nd skill which increases the fury stance skill bonuses by 200~300% aswell as its current effect of boosting gear generation as long as you have a Hu main class w/ Hunter weapon equiped.

So it ends up you get a 50% boost to fury stance skills if you play Hunter as a Hunter, nothing more nothing less. Gear isnt effected anymore then it already is.

Edit: Also its only the first 4 hits of over-end that get boosted damage from the gear anyway, the 5th never has been effected by gear aside from a slightly larger AoE hitbox iirc

[GoldenFalcon]

They are talking about the fury stance related skills, not gear damage boost.

Which would boost the final hit, win=win

[xervah]

Step five: Everyone goes FoTe

this... before were braver now force...

[Stickboy]

>read step 4

lets main fighter guys

[Maenara]

>read step 4

lets main fighter guys

I didn't want to nerf FI/HUs, there's nothing wrong with FI/HUs, considering subclassing HU as a FI was absolutely intended.

[Maenara]

HOW TO FIX GUARD STANCE:

Add this skill: Perfect Guardian: While Guard Stance is active: A Just Attack performed immediately after a Just Guard has its damage increased by (1%/2%/3%/4%/5%/6%/7%/8%/9%/10% * the number of consecutive successful Just Guards). No upper limit on damage gained. Number of consecutive Just Guards is reset upon Guard Stance ending, or falling beneath 100%/100%/95%/95%/90%/90%/85%/85%/80%/75% HP.

[Zyrusticae]

If you don't decrease the total skill point expenditure at the same time, you're gonna have a bad time.

[Maenara]

If you don't decrease the total skill point expenditure at the same time, you're gonna have a bad time.

Out of curiosity, what do you think would happen if they offered the option of taking no subclass in exchange for doubling the total amount of skill points you can use for your main class?

[Skyly]

Plot Twist: Hunter is perfectly fine and is being used as intended? PSOW THEORY CRAFTERS play the game instead of complaining about it 24/7

[Rien]

Nothing, because all classes only need a few sp for "perfect mains" without considering "defensive/miscellaneous options"

[gigawuts]

Plot Twist: Hunter is perfectly fine and is being used as intended? PSOW THEORY CRAFTERS play the game instead of complaining about it 24/7

Hitler intended to kill jews. Intent didn't make that okay either.

[Maenara]

Plot Twist: Hunter is perfectly fine and is being used as intended? PSOW THEORY CRAFTERS play the game instead of complaining about it 24/7

Five bucks says you can't actually tell me the intended purpose of Hunter.

[gigawuts]

Five bucks says you can't actually tell me the intended purpose of Hunter.

To get you to buy another tree if you want to main any non-fo non-hu class and then also main hu or even just use hu weapons well at all while maining something else

Intending to use a bad idea doesn't make the bad idea good. It means they're intending to use a bad idea. People need to stop trying to wave around "working as intended" like it somehow makes bad ideas good.

[Sacrificial]

Hunter's rebalance should've been like Ra's. Scaled PA's instead lv16 only.

sword gear+sword throw is great even now. Swords main problem is that almost every pa made is a grip attack.

[Kumichan]

Hitler intended to kill jews. Intent didn't make that okay either.

Nope. That was a zionist plot to force imigration to Israel.

[gigawuts]

Hunter's rebalance should've been like Ra's. Scaled PA's instead lv16 only.

sword gear+sword throw is great even now. Swords main problem is that almost every pa made is a grip attack.

Yeah, I think this is the most irritating part of melee. The melee PA (and some tech) fixes are held ransom by your level and the RNG. I killed hundreds of rogbelts to get flash thousand 16 since super hard came out, and never found it until wind and rain 2. All ranger really needed to farm hardcore for was impact slider, which was tedious but still one thing. There are tons of situational melee PAs to go looking for.

Ranger's scaling fix should have been applied to melee too, but instead melee got more of the same for three more moves.

I mean wow sega great jerb.

[Hexxy]

Delete all classes except Hunter. Rename to Dinosaur Hunter and give them weapons from Turok games. There. Hunter balanced.

/thread

cerebral bore vs elder

[wefwq]

People always say HU must be fixed, but in the end they just want to make HU even weaker and unappealing.

[Shiyo]

Skill tree's shouldn't have any passive% dmg modifers at all. This is the only way to give people actual options when speccing and open up more subjob choices. Stances can stay, but make them exclusive to the class their on(main class only) and default skills not in skill tree's.

Roll all current passive % dmg modifers default into the game per class. If damage is too low now? Globally buff all melee PA's.

This alone would add a ton of new options and choices. Instead of "If I don't sub HU I do 1/2 the damage of subbing HU" it's "I do nearly the same damage no matter what I sub and I pick this sub because I like it or it suits my playstyle"

[Neith]

The problem the way I see it is that currently people only really level Hunter to subclass it for Fury Stance/Fury Combo Up.

I honestly think Fury Stance and the associated skills should be made Hunter-specific or confined to melee-only damage (this'd still be problematic though if Braver was allowed to use it). Only solution I can see is to make Fury Stance HU only. Whether that alone would make HU more worthwhile I'm not sure.

Hunter needs a reason for people to play it rather than just leveling it for the sake of subclassing it- at the moment it's a case of "why would I main HU when I can main BR with HU subbed and get most of the benefits?"

Overall the skill trees (for several classes) need complete overhauls, HU for sure.

[Dark Matter]

Ignore this I think I'm drunk~

This already being said everywhere else "but why complain when its a Pve,
party game that's supposed to build team work?" Why hinder your party mates
and teammates knowing that they will have to join you with their weakened status
meaning for EQ runs and ta runs to be harder in the end.

[SPOILER-BOX]http://angryjellyfish.files.wordpress.com/2012/04/untitled43.jpg[/SPOILER-BOX]
I find nothing wrong with the class setup. [SPOILER-BOX]If this game followed the single class
system then I would usually complain because there are usually kinks in the class makeups
for games that use that technique. However this game uses dual class system so the player
can choose 2 classes to favor over 1. If the player finds they are not sufficient in one field
they can change subs and use that class unlike others where you're stuck as the same class all the time.[/SPOILER-BOX]
Each class has a role and because of its role it will specialize in its field
[SPOILER-BOX]Melee classes will be suited for offensive combat.
Ranged classes are used for dmg and proc support.
"magic" classes are suited support, status support and boosted stat support.
People use hunter for its combat capabilities so when I see hunter as a sub i cant
really get mad because he's using it for the option of offence. [/SPOILER-BOX]
[SPOILER]I always see complaints flying out of the poopyfaced tomato nosed force x techer users when it comes to dmg but they
forget that they're on fields to provide support for others, not be rambo24/7 with a 999k dmg output. when you see these
type of players ignore them and let them resume spamming their "flavor of the month technique" [/SPOILER-BOX]

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-c9AIds2Hq18/AAAAAAAAAAI/AAAAAAAAABo/lf8Povqiq1k/photo.jpg

[Chdata]

How to fix Guld Milla in one easy step:

Step one: Change Celestial Bullet's potential from "Recover 5% of all damage dealt as HP." to "10%(Or 15~25%, not sure what a good amount would be) of damage dealt from a blow that kills an enemy is returned as HP."

(Optional) Step two: Watch Gunners cry.

return 50% of normal attacks only.

[Zyrusticae]

[SPOILER]I always see complaints flying out of the poopyfaced tomato nosed force x techer users when it comes to dmg but they
forget that they're on fields to provide support for others, not be rambo24/7 with a 999k dmg output. when you see these
type of players ignore them and let them resume spamming their "flavor of the month technique" [/SPOILER-BOX]
This entire post is full of rotten junk but this takes the fucking cake and shits all over it.

Yeah, the squishiest and slowest class in the game toooootally was meant to be support-focused even though support is basically nonexistent in the game outside of zondeel. Riiiiiiiiight. :rolleyes:

Oh, let's not even consider the fact that Hunter is the class that has War Cry and that a bunch of melee PAs are designed specifically to lock down enemies whereas there is only a very, very small handful of techniques designed to do the same.

Seriously, do you even play the fucking game?

[GoldenFalcon]

Techer mainclass is the support class, not Force. Have you seen nukers in any game?

Ranger main or subclass is a better support since it offers more damage for the party.

[Punisher106]

Or, you know, learn to use the Partisan and use Slide End and Assault Buster effectively.

[Skyly]

Ignore this I think I'm drunk~

This already being said everywhere else "but why complain when its a Pve,
party game that's supposed to build team work?" Why hinder your party mates
and teammates knowing that they will have to join you with their weakened status
meaning for EQ runs and ta runs to be harder in the end.

[SPOILER-BOX]http://angryjellyfish.files.wordpress.com/2012/04/untitled43.jpg[/SPOILER-BOX]
I find nothing wrong with the class setup. [SPOILER-BOX]If this game followed the single class
system then I would usually complain because there are usually kinks in the class makeups
for games that use that technique. However this game uses dual class system so the player
can choose 2 classes to favor over 1. If the player finds they are not sufficient in one field
they can change subs and use that class unlike others where you're stuck as the same class all the time.[/SPOILER-BOX]
Each class has a role and because of its role it will specialize in its field
[SPOILER-BOX]Melee classes will be suited for offensive combat.
Ranged classes are used for dmg and proc support.
"magic" classes are suited support, status support and boosted stat support.
People use hunter for its combat capabilities so when I see hunter as a sub i cant
really get mad because he's using it for the option of offence. [/SPOILER-BOX]
[SPOILER]I always see complaints flying out of the poopyfaced tomato nosed force x techer users when it comes to dmg but they
forget that they're on fields to provide support for others, not be rambo24/7 with a 999k dmg output. when you see these
type of players ignore them and let them resume spamming their "flavor of the month technique" [/SPOILER-BOX]

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-c9AIds2Hq18/AAAAAAAAAAI/AAAAAAAAABo/lf8Povqiq1k/photo.jpg

For real why complain when this is PVE.. Just imagine if they ended the reign of fury stance. It would take everything so much more longer to die!

[Maninbluejumpsuit]

People always say HU must be fixed

Yeah, and?


but in the end they just want to make HU even weaker

Did you not notice how much of an overpowered sub class it is?


and unappealing.

Outside of its skill tree, it already is.

[Valimer]

Why is it always about fixing Hunter?

We love having options, the class isn't broken, no fix is needed!

I can RaHu, BrHu, HuBr, GuHu, TeHu, HuTe, FiHu, HuFi, FoHu

Soon to be: BoHu, HuBo

^ look at all those options!

Leave Hunter alone!

I've been wondering this for a really long time, what's the point of having Hunter/Braver? Why is that better than Braver/hunter?


Actually what's the point of playing Hunter main at all?

[The Walrus]

iirc it's because the best partisan for ass buster is Hu only normally.

[Valimer]

Ignore this I think I'm drunk~

This already being said everywhere else "but why complain when its a Pve,
party game that's supposed to build team work?" Why hinder your party mates
and teammates knowing that they will have to join you with their weakened status
meaning for EQ runs and ta runs to be harder in the end.

[SPOILER-BOX]http://angryjellyfish.files.wordpress.com/2012/04/untitled43.jpg[/SPOILER-BOX]
I find nothing wrong with the class setup. [SPOILER-BOX]If this game followed the single class
system then I would usually complain because there are usually kinks in the class makeups
for games that use that technique. However this game uses dual class system so the player
can choose 2 classes to favor over 1. If the player finds they are not sufficient in one field
they can change subs and use that class unlike others where you're stuck as the same class all the time.[/SPOILER-BOX]
Each class has a role and because of its role it will specialize in its field
[SPOILER-BOX]Melee classes will be suited for offensive combat.
Ranged classes are used for dmg and proc support.
"magic" classes are suited support, status support and boosted stat support.
People use hunter for its combat capabilities so when I see hunter as a sub i cant
really get mad because he's using it for the option of offence. [/SPOILER-BOX]
[SPOILER]I always see complaints flying out of the poopyfaced tomato nosed force x techer users when it comes to dmg but they
forget that they're on fields to provide support for others, not be rambo24/7 with a 999k dmg output. when you see these
type of players ignore them and let them resume spamming their "flavor of the month technique" [/SPOILER-BOX]

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-c9AIds2Hq18/AAAAAAAAAAI/AAAAAAAAABo/lf8Povqiq1k/photo.jpg


Yeah, every class has a role. It's DPS. There are no "supports" despite having support like abilities(the traps tree for rangers doesn't count, it might as well not exist). And wtf @ damage and proc support? LMAO

[Kondibon]

I keep seeing people say support might as well not be there, or whatever, instead of thinking of ways to make it viable. It's obviously meant to be a part of the game, and there's clearly people who are interested in that play style.

EDIT: *sticks punctuation marks in like a child sticking magnets to a fridge*

[SakoHaruo]

iirc it's because the best partisan for ass buster is Hu only normally.

No longer an issue. Braver has トライデントクラッシャー (Trident Crusher) now.

[Shiyo]

I keep seeing people say support might as well not be there or whatever instead of thinking of ways to make it viable since it's obviously meant to be a part of the game and there's clearly people who are interested in that play style.

Techer is really nice support, passive shifta/deband and adding 20% damage to everyone, zondeel, cures(megiverse is awesome as well) and status removal. All really nice stuff, they just need to buff shifta/deband, make it one tick for max duration, give techer a skill that makes shifta/deband into 1 skill or "Your shifta also casts deband on players", make super treatment work on cures as well and give techer some kind of AOE PP regen buff. Maybe make super treatment stronger as well as making it work on normal cures and not just status removal.

I think wand gear techplosions giving an AOE status removal and slight healing would be cool too.

The problem is weak bullet is basically a passive +300% damage increase so techer will never be good support compared to someone on RA or subbing RA, unless you're TE/RA, I guess. Remove weak bullet too and do all the things I said please. :(

[strikerhunter]

Hunter is fine as is, some of the skills in the Guard Stance lines needs to be together as 1 skill but overall the class is fine. IMO, the thing that made Guard Stance very unappealing is the stupidly large Guard Stance tree line (thank god War Cry is under it).

There are a few small minor tweaks that could help hunters like PA buffs like Ra got, increase sword's swing, make gear increase rate to something close to Gu's, etc.

[Dephinix]

Yeah, every class has a role. It's DPS. There are no "supports" despite having support like abilities(the traps tree for rangers doesn't count, it might as well not exist). And wtf @ damage and proc support? LMAO

"It's DPS." That statement is exactly why everyone is arguing about this. "I have ways to help the mpa, but fuck that, I want to kill!" I saw dozens of players be wiped by Adrios and Loser, but guess what, some ranger popped Jellen shot and everything was fine again. God forbid that deband reduction for 15% damage resistance didn't help either. Not to mention Fury Main Hunters actually warcrying and keeping aggro. The fact they have to warcry to pull aggro(usually) is bad, yeah, but reducing fury stance damage isn't doing to "fix" Hunter. Just some simple PA buffs could bring Hunter up to par.

[Valimer]

"It's DPS." That statement is exactly why everyone is arguing about this. "I have ways to help the mpa, but fuck that, I want to kill!" I saw dozens of players be wiped by Adrios and Loser, but guess what, some ranger popped Jellen shot and everything was fine again. God forbid that deband reduction for 15% damage resistance didn't help either. Not to mention Fury Main Hunters actually warcrying and keeping aggro. The fact they have to warcry to pull aggro(usually) is bad, yeah, but reducing fury stance damage isn't doing to "fix" Hunter. Just some simple PA buffs could bring Hunter up to par.

So here your telling me that DPS isn't the only role and then you go on to say that Hunter needs to do more damage?

[Kondibon]

Techer is really nice support, passive shifta/deband and adding 20% damage to everyone, zondeel, cures(megiverse is awesome as well) and status removal. All really nice stuff, they just need to buff shifta/deband, make it one tick for max duration, give techer a skill that makes shifta/deband into 1 skill or "Your shifta also casts deband on players", make super treatment work on cures as well and give techer some kind of AOE PP regen buff. Maybe make super treatment stronger as well as making it work on normal cures and not just status removal.

I think wand gear techplosions giving an AOE status removal and slight healing would be cool too.

The problem is weak bullet is basically a passive +300% damage increase so techer will never be good support compared to someone on RA or subbing RA, unless you're TE/RA, I guess. Remove weak bullet too and do all the things I said please. :(The biggest problem with support techs actually isn't how effective they are, or even how long they last. It's the fact that, even with territory burst consistantly getting them on a large group of people mid fight is next to impossible.

EDIT: for comparison Mabinogi's music buffs last 20 seconds to maybe a minute or two tops, but they're worlds better simply because it takes all of one second to put the buff on everyone in the room for the whole durration. The tic thing on Shifta and Deband has to go unless every tic is doing the full durration.
I do like the idea of having a way to add extra effects to the buffs though. They got halfway there with super treatment...

[Shiyo]

Yes shifta/deband needs to not use a tick system and techer should be able to cast both at once somehow as I said.

[Kondibon]

Yes shifta/deband needs to not use a tick system and techer should be able to cast both at once somehow as I said.I don't think it NEEDS to be able to cast both at once, but I wouldn't complain if it could. At this rate though Bouncer is going to be better at applying buffs than Techer. :I

[Rakurai]

Super Treatment is one of the few support related skills that I feel they actually did properly on the Techer tree. The datamined skill that adds Iron Will to Deband could also be useful, considering how often I see people dying.

Long Time Assist would have more value if it made Megiverse and Zanverse last longer, because as is, it's easily the weakest main-only skill in the game.

[Kondibon]

Super Treatment is one of the few support related skills that I feel they actually did properly on the Techer tree. The datamined skill that adds Iron Will to Deband could also be useful, considering how often I see people dying.

Long Time Assist would have more value if it made Megiverse and Zanverse last longer, because as is, it's easily the weakest main-only skill in the game.The problem is that Super Treatment relies on someone having a status effect which is unreliable unless you're doing it intentionally, and even then it's useless in places where status effects aren't common.

Long Time Assist should have been a part of Extend Assist. :/ If anything looks like a techer main only skill it's wand reactor.

[lnvisible]

Honestly the game is designed around people having a certain amount of damage output at this point. Nerfing the ultimate subclass for variety and toning down/removing weak bullet is all well and good, provided the rest of the game is rebalanced to count for such things. However, this leads to infinite opportunities for even more problems to arise, when they could make things better for hunter main simply by improving the weapons.

Swords are supposed to be slow but heavy damage dealing weapons, almost all of their PAs have charge time but do questionable damage even with decent gear. For swords you could either:

a)Remove charge times in order for them to take advantage of the combo system and just readjust the damage accordingly.

b)Swords are massive yet their reach is pretty pathetic, an overall buff in reach on swords would help (some).

c)Flat out increase the damage. It's pretty sad when sword's strongest PA does less than most other class combination's 2nd/3rd most powerful. You're sacrificing speed for power that isn't even there when using a sword.

For partisans, most people would say they're the most OK of hunter weapons but they could use a buff as well. For partisans you could:

a) Increase range both vertical and horizontal slightly (it's supposed to be an aoe oriented weapon so it should have more range than it does currently).

b) Buff damage across the board slightly (this seems to be less of an issue with partisans).

Wired lances have been alot better recently with the addition of some new PAs but the it still needs some work. You could:

a) Increase the range of all PAs. It was intended to be a ranged-melee in the sense that you shouldn't be needing to get within melee range to use it. Why bring out a wired lance when you have to walk into sword range just to take advantage of alot of it's PAs.

b) Increase damage slightly (it always helps).

c) Reduce PP costs across the board for more fluidity/flexibility.

I believe the main problem with hunter is that with the current game it's weapons are too slow and unrewarding for anyone to bother unless they truly enjoy it and don't mind being subpar. There are a couple good PAs spread out through the weapons but none of them really make up for how behind the current HU selection is.

Disclaimer: Not meant to be taken as gospel, just opinions.

[Kondibon]

Hunter's weapons and hunters skill tree are causing seperate problems. The weapons DO need to be buffed, but let's look at Hunter's Skill tree compared to say Braver and Fighter.

Hunter has the largest total damage multipliers for striking and ranged damage. The downside is supposed to be that you take more physical damage in return, but the combination of the fact that they nerfed the damage you take and most things either do over half your hp or scratch damage anyway means the weakness might as well not exist.

Fighter's stances work for every damage type, but require you to position your self properly and in some cases switch stances mid fight. Fighter's other choices for damage improvement are chase advanced which requires the target to have a status effect meaning it's not going to see much use, and the other requires you to have low hp and/or low pp, which can cause problems from other people or your mag healing you, they're also flat stat bonuses instead of multipliers making them even less desirable.

Braver lacks a lot of general damage bonuses, it's stances both work for every damage type, but average stance has, at best, only+30% damage, and that's with chaged techs/PAs. Weak Stance has 20% more damage than Average, but requires you to hit a weak spot making it bad for general damage. While Average stance doesn't have a downside, at this point neither does Fury stance, so why sub braver for a weaknessless stance when you can sub hunter for a virtually weaknessless stance AND get more damage to boot.

Then there's the last thing, and this is important, Hunter's stance weaknesses fade as you rank them up, while Fighter's stances, and Weak Stance have their weaknesses made worse as they're leveled up.

The end result is that hunter has the most easily accessable, AND strongest, damage multipliers for only only taking 5% more damage, while Braver and Fighter's stances both have lower multipliers while being more situational and end up only being good as subs for force because Hunter stances don't work with tech.

Don't get me started on the SP cost with all the good stuff on the right side of the hunter tree that gets ignored because you just don't have enough SP to max the damage side AND get anything worth while over there.

[lnvisible]

Hunter's weapons and hunters skill tree are causing seperate problems. The weapons DO need to be buffed, but let's look at Hunter's Skill tree compared to say Braver and Fighter.

Hunter has the largest total damage multipliers for striking and ranged damage. The downside is supposed to be that you take more physical damage in return, but the combination of the fact that they nerfed the damage you take and most things either do over half your hp or scratch damage anyway means the weakness might as well not exist.

Fighter's stances work for every damage type, but require you to position your self properly and in some cases switch stances mid fight. Fighter's other choices for damage improvement are chase advanced which requires the target to have a status effect meaning it's not going to see much use, and the other requires you to have low hp and/or low pp, which can cause problems from other people or your mag healing you, they're also flat stat bonuses instead of multipliers making them even less desirable.

Braver lacks a lot of general damage bonuses, it's stances both work for every damage type, but average stance has, at best, only+30% damage, and that's with chaged techs/PAs. Weak Stance has 20% more damage than Average, but requires you to hit a weak spot making it bad for general damage. While Average stance doesn't have a downside, at this point neither does Fury stance, so why sub braver for a weaknessless stance when you can sub hunter for a virtually weaknessless stance AND get more damage to boot.

Then there's the last thing, and this is important, Hunter's stance weaknesses fade as you rank them up, while Fighter's stances, and Weak Stance have their weaknesses made worse as they're leveled up.

The end result is that hunter has the most easily accessable, AND strongest, damage multipliers for only only taking 5% more damage, while Braver and Fighter's stances both have lower multipliers while being more situational and end up only being good as subs for force because Hunter stances don't work with tech.

Don't get me started on the SP cost with all the good stuff on the right side of the hunter tree that gets ignored because you just don't have enough SP to max the damage side AND get anything worth while over there.

Of course reworking the skill tree would be ideal. But ask the common player why they don't bother playing HU as a main and I'd be willing to bet it has little to do with lack of skill points and more to do with the effectiveness of the weapons themselves. An immediate fix and then a fix down the road would help HU quite a bit.

[Kondibon]

Of course reworking the skill tree would be ideal. But ask the common player why they don't bother playing HU as a main and I'd be willing to bet it has little to do with lack of skill points and more to do with the effectiveness of the weapons themselves. An immediate fix and then a fix down the road would help HU quite a bit.I'm not dissagreeing with anything you said, I'm saying that they're seperate problems that both need to be addressed. Fixing hunter doesn't just mean making it worth playing as a main, it also means making sure it isn't still hands down the best sub for every class except force.

[lnvisible]

I'm not dissagreeing with anything you said, I'm saying that they're seperate problems that both need to be addressed. Fixing hunter doesn't just mean making it worth playing as a main, it also means making sure it isn't still hands down the best sub for every class except force.

Well of course, I'd prefer more variety as well. However it seems like they seem to be designing around what the majority uses instead of giving incentive to try new things. For example I highly doubt they intended for loser to be completed without weak bullet or a bunch of ??/HU around. Redoing trees would help as long as all classes were slightly adjusted to account for it. My concern from years of playing MMOs is that when rebalancing happens it's usually the case that it does more harm than good. What we have now may not be ideal but the changes that could be made may bring even worse problems.

[Kondibon]

Well of course, I'd prefer more variety as well. However it seems like they seem to be designing around what the majority uses instead of giving incentive to try new things. For example I highly doubt they intended for loser to be completed without weak bullet or a bunch of ??/HU around. Redoing trees would help as long as all classes were slightly adjusted to account for it. My concern from years of playing MMOs is that when rebalancing happens it's usually the case that it does more harm than good. What we have now may not be ideal but the changes that could be made may bring even worse problems.I'm actually under the impression that Luther is SUPPOSED to take a long time, not that it's balanced around weakbullet. People get so used to completing things quickly that when something comes along that takes longer than they're used to they get pissy. That said, I do still think WB is a problem.

EDIT: To clarify I'm not saying that I think Luther taking so long is a GOOD thing, just that he was designed that way, and not with weakbullet in mind specifically.

[lnvisible]

I'm actually under the impression that Luther is SUPPOSED to take a long time, not that it's balanced around weakbullet. People get so used to completing things quickly that when something comes along that takes longer than they're used to they get pissy. That said, I do still think WB is a problem.

EDIT: To clarify I'm not saying that I think Luther taking so long is a GOOD thing, just that he was designed that way, and not with weakbullet in mind specifically.

I have no problems with a fight taking a while either, however in regards to Luther I really do think it was designed for weak bullet use. On average the runs I've done take at least 10 minutes (pugs) with weak bullet, 10x3 would be just scraping the time limit. If it was meant to take a while I feel they would give more time or lower it's HP somewhat.

[Kondibon]

10x3 would be just scraping the time limit.And you don't think it's intended to be clutch? Cause that's what I meant.

[lnvisible]

And you don't think it's intended to be clutch? Cause that's what I meant.

It's hard to say. It would be nice if it was meant to be that way, yet it would also cause a flood of complaints from people if they actually designed content intending for most people to not be able to do it given that PSO2 is seen as a casual game.

[Kondibon]

It's hard to say. It would be nice if it was meant to be that way, yet it would also cause a flood of complaints from people if they actually designed content intending for most people to not be able to do it given that PSO2 is seen as a casual game.

This just leads me back to what I and a lot of other people have been saying. This kind of content needs to be easier to organize for players on their own time instead of randomly happening and hoping your friends are up to do it. This is the equivalent of randomly getting dropped into a hardcore raid in WoW or something and HOPING everyone else is gonna be able to pull their own weight instead of being able to organize your own group when you can be sure everyone you want to do it with is on.

Things like Luther and TD shouldn't be EQs like this. Sega needs to stop gating the closest thing the game has to hardcore content behind RNG.

[GoldenFalcon]

Things like Luther and TD shouldn't be EQs like this.

For TD, it makes sense to defend all the time

But Luther and Falz? I dunno. Infinite STATE OF PANIC on the TV screens :D

[Kondibon]

For TD, it makes sense to defend all the time

But Luther and Falz? I dunno. Infinite STATE OF PANIC on the TV screens :DI'm talking about gameplay availability. :/

[GoldenFalcon]

I'm talking about gameplay availability. :/

Make it a Team mission like Blue Burst had

problem solved

[Kondibon]

Make it a Team mission like Blue Burst had

problem solved
That's exactly the kind of thing I was thinking.

[Aurorra]

I've been wondering this for a really long time, what's the point of having Hunter/Braver? Why is that better than Braver/hunter?


Actually what's the point of playing Hunter main at all?

Hunters get ~70 more Hp, more base S-Atk, and Rare Mastery Hunter which provides S-Atk instead of Rare Mastery Braver that provides useless Dex. And before you go "But R-Atk!", Br/Hu only gets +4 R-atk over Hu/Br. Plus access to all the hunter only weapons with nice latents and Fury Gear Boost.

Really, Braver as a main class got shafted at the last level increase when they didn't get a useful main class only talent like Fighter/Hunter/Force/Ranger.


Out of curiosity, what do you think would happen if they offered the option of taking no subclass in exchange for doubling the total amount of skill points you can use for your main class?

"XXXX's subclass has reached level 7!" You know how you see that in the first wave of TD2 and you know you're in for a bad time? That's pretty much what you're suggesting would do.

Maybe if it was "Double the bonuses received from all talents" it would be different but the meta of the game is to stack percentage damage increases, and not even Hunter has enough % damage increases in their skill tree to make this suggestion viable. Not to mention you'd also lose out on the raw stats of having a subclass.

[Dephinix]

So here your telling me that DPS isn't the only role and then you go on to say that Hunter needs to do more damage?

"Needs it?" No, but you seem to think that. I'm perfectly fine maining swords as a Hunter/Braver. I may not be hitting the most, but I can definitely kill and solo just fine. What needs to be done is for people to stop complaining. >.>

[XrosBlader821]

The main Problem of Hu is that it is supposed to take hits while dealing damage.
However the skill tree is designed to either deal damage or take hits but never both at the same time.
Other classes with Stances don't have to deal with that since their stances decide between dealing damage and dealing other type of damage.

[Dark Matter]

After reading many of these comments I think I've learned a few things.


Even though a class may have assisting capabilities it doesn't make it a supporting class.
Preference of play styles will differ from person to person.
People will go with the preference of raw power over the few "assisting" capabilities other classes may provide.
A few more things but it seems unnecessary.. [/SPOILER-BOX]

Now I'm only left with questions.
[SPOILER-BOX]
When every ones bread and butter class catches a "balance/fix" one day. What will happen to the people who invested so much into the class?
When new difficulties, bosses, eq and bosses come around will they have a way to put more use to having techer around?
Would a technique that revives others be Helping/OP/Gamebreaking?

[/SPOILER-BOX]

http://i.imgur.com/Y69SUvi.jpg


To Zyrusticae
[SPOILER-BOX]
This entire post is full of rotten junk but this takes the [SPOILER]fucking cake and shits all over it.

Yeah, the squishiest and slowest class in the game toooootally was meant to be support-focused even though support is basically nonexistent in the game outside of zondeel. Riiiiiiiiight. :rolleyes:

Oh, let's not even consider the fact that Hunter is the class that has War Cry and that a bunch of melee PAs are designed specifically to lock down enemies whereas there is only a very, very small handful of techniques designed to do the same.

Seriously, do you even play the fucking game?

This is very insightful I'm going to use this for later reference.

and yes I do play, just not with you. </3
[/SPOILER-BOX]

[Maenara]

reducing fury stance damage isn't doing to "fix" Hunter.

oh my god you didn't even read the THIRD sentence of the first post.

[Dephinix]

oh my god you didn't even read the THIRD sentence of the first post.

Oh my god, why do you think I was talking about your post when I was quoting someone else? Lol~~~

I never necessarily disagreed with it, but I certainly believe this whole argument is just for the sake of arguing.

[Shiyo]

I have no problems with a fight taking a while either, however in regards to Luther I really do think it was designed for weak bullet use. On average the runs I've done take at least 10 minutes (pugs) with weak bullet, 10x3 would be just scraping the time limit. If it was meant to take a while I feel they would give more time or lower it's HP somewhat.

With full competent players and weak bullet he dies in 2 minutes though. He probably is balanced around weak bullet, but dying in 2 minutes is still super fast.

[SquashDemon]

Step eleventy-twenty two:

Fuck the metagame and play however the hell you want.

Hu/Te represent!

[ClothoBuer]

I'm trying to find a way to work in a terrible BR/HU reference, but whatever here it is:
[SPOILER-BOX]http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-0QS1Or05SZw/Uf3TuKTDgmI/AAAAAAAACYA/oTI3P425l1Y/s1600/HUEHUEHUE.png[/SPOILER-BOX]